April 2, 2025 • 46 mins
The 2024 Final Four is unlike any we've seen in years—chalk has prevailed, delivering the four #1 seeds to college basketball's biggest stage for the first time since 2008.
Duke, Houston, Florida, and Auburn aren't just top seeds—they represent the pinnacle of college basketball excellence this season. Analytics confirm what our coaching panel discusses: these four programs have separated themselves from the pack. We dive deep into what makes each semifinal matchup so compelling, from Duke's exceptional length and switching defense to Houston's physical toughness and improved shooting; from Florida's clutch performances behind Walter Clayton Jr. to Auburn's resilience personified by Johni Broome.
The debate between Cooper Flagg and Johni Broome for Player of the Year honors takes center stage, with our coaches unanimously crowning Flagg despite Duke's talent-rich roster. Beyond the matchups, we explore how NIL and the transfer portal have fundamentally altered college basketball's landscape, potentially eliminating the Cinderella stories that once defined March Madness. Has college basketball entered an era where only the wealthy programs can compete for championships?
We also touch on the Women's Final Four, where UConn's Paige Bueckers seeks her first championship, and examine Tom Izzo's coaching future as he navigates a changing collegiate landscape that many veteran coaches find challenging.
Whether you're filling out your final bracket or simply appreciating the extraordinary talent on display this weekend, our coaching breakdown provides the insights you need before Saturday's semifinals tip off. Who will cut down the nets on Monday night? Listen now to hear our predictions!
Thank you for listening!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Rocky (00:01):
Get a chance tonight to talk some final four hoops with
the coaches.
I got Coach P back.
I got Coach Paggs back tonight.
I'm excited to talk.
I want to get the guys'thoughts on Cooper Flagg, Mr
Broome from Auburn.
There's been a lot of debategoing back and forth who's the
player of the year.
This final four is going to bea really good matchup.
We'll get the guys' thoughts onthat.
(00:23):
This is the first time in a longtime I've went chalked
throughout my picks and a coupleof my brackets.
I'm like third out of like 50to 100 people and normally I'm
kind of in the middle of thepack because I do go with a lot
of upsets in the first couplerounds.
So I want to give you some ofthe bracket talk and much more.
So make sure to stay tuned.
The Rack Pile is coming rightback at you.
(01:02):
All right, welcome to the RockPile here tonight.
The Rock Pile tonight bringsthe Final Four show.
Hard to believe that Saturdayis the National Semifinals and
then Monday night will be theNational Championship game.
Hard to believe collegebasketball is coming to an end.
You got the Lady Final Fourthat starts Friday night and
then their final game will be onSunday night and the boys will
(01:22):
be on Monday night.
So, without further ado, let'sbring on the coaches here.
We'll get Coach Paggs, Coach P.
What's going on, gentlemen?
How are we tonight?
Coach Pags (01:33):
Doing great, doing great.
What's going on, boys?
Rocky (01:36):
Well, I was telling you guys before we got started.
I walked in the house.
My wife was at soccer with mydaughter, my son was at baseball
tryouts and I at soccer with mydaughter, my son was at
baseball tryouts.
And I walked in the door and Isaid I got to go downstairs.
And she said for what?
I said I got to go talk hoopswith the guys.
She goes all right, well, nicetalking to you too.
So that's kind of how my mynight went.
But we got a really, really gooduh final four and we'll get to
(01:57):
that in just a little bit.
And I was saying before we cameon, this is the first year,
like I don't know, I we talkedabout it, I think, last week
that there's not a lot of upsets.
There was only what one buzzerbeater, the kid from Maryland,
had, the buzzer beater in theSweet 16 game.
We really haven't seen any ofthose this year.
You got chalk in the final four, which the more I've been
(02:19):
thinking of these matchups,coming in tonight to talk with
you guys, I think they're tworeally good games and four
really good teams.
I think any of these four teamscan win it.
But what's your guys' thoughts,pags, I'll start with you first
.
What's your guys' you knowwhat's your thoughts been like
this tournament and you know thefinal four teams that we got.
That we'll dive into here in asecond.
But what's your early thoughts?
Coach Pasiak (02:39):
Well, I agree, I think the four teams you have
here, I think any four of theseteams, can win the national
championship.
I think you honestly have thefour best teams in the country
playing college basketball atthe end of the year, which is
what you want, right?
I mean, I know people havecomplained, and myself included,
(03:01):
that March Madness this yeardidn't have that same excitement
that we've had in the past withthose buzzer beaters.
But the four number onesgetting getting to the final
four, um, I mean, isn't thiswhat we want at the end of the
day, when we talk about a lot incollege football, how we want
the best, the best teams playingat the end of the year, um, I
think that's exactly what youhave.
I mean you got the four numberones and I mean nobody, nobody's
really saying there's thisshould have been a different
number one.
All four of these teams are, youknow, legitimate number ones,
(03:24):
with no one's complaining thatthese are not number one teams
should be out there and they'vereally have proved themselves
throughout the tournament.
I mean all four of these teamshave really rolled throughout
the tournament.
I mean florida a little bit ofa scare in the last game, but
they, they showed uh resilienceand they showed how they can uh
fight back as like a 10 pointlead with about five or six
minutes left and they just justcame right back.
(03:45):
So I think it shapes up for areally good weekend, really fun
weekend of basketball.
I think we're going to seereally good basketball this
weekend.
Rocky (03:52):
What do you think, Coach?
Coach Pags (03:54):
I think I mean these four teams, if you're big in
the analytics.
I mean they've been the topfour teams in the Ken Palm since
February, in some order oranother, so I mean it's no real
surprise.
I think what's kind of happenedand we talked a little bit last
week when you had 16 teams allfrom power conferences, and I
think it's kind of manifesteditself even more in the finals
(04:17):
is that you know, the rich aregoing to continue to get richer.
I think in this era, with NILand the transfer portal and
everything, I think that it'sgoing to be harder and harder
for that team to come out of thepack because the advantage that
they used to have you know themid-major, or the team that goes
on the late run and gets deepinto the tournament, you know
(04:39):
Elite Eight Final Four as asurprise they typically have the
veteran team that had beentogether three, four years with
really good guard play andsometimes that would be enough
to overcome maybe the moreindividually talented team with
less experience, the guys thatwere going to be the one and
done, one and two year guys andthen going to the NBA.
(05:01):
So I think now what happens isthose really good players at the
low major and mid-major level.
They're not staying four years.
You know they're guided to.
You know player of the year,all-conference rookie of the
year at one of the mid-majorleagues.
You know they're in the portaland they're getting paid at one
of the high-major schools.
So I think what we're seeingthis year is probably kind of
(05:23):
going to be the trend in theforeseeable future.
Rocky (05:27):
You know I want to talk a little bit about the Elite
Eight games first.
And you know I want to startwith the Florida-Texas game
because Coach Cal Arkansas hadthe big lead against Texas Tech.
They blew that game late andthen Texas Tech has Florida on
the ropes.
I think Texas Tech was up ninewith what two, three minutes to
go in a game and then WalterClayton Jr hit a couple big
threes.
(05:47):
They got Florida back in it andonce they got ahead they closed
it out late.
And I feel like in football wesay toughness, hard-nosed
defense wins championships andgood guard play in the NCAA
tournament, this Final Four andeven through these Elite Eight
games, coach P, the guards andthe toughness of these teams to
me is what's really stood out.
Coach Pags (06:09):
Yeah, you know I think the toughness, but you
know there's got to be some shotmaking too a little bit.
But I think the commondenominator of all four of these
teams is I think they can alllike Auburn, I think, has really
improved defensively.
So I think all four of theseteams really guard and you know
(06:30):
Florida we talked about lastweek when they got by UConn it
was like that was the game youknow where.
If you're a top team, there'sone test and you know they got
another one in the last go roundand they passed them versus you
know it's been.
Duke has kind of had their wayup until a little bit.
They got challenged in the lastround, so that's a really
fascinating matchup, if you know.
(06:50):
If we get to that point,florida and Duke.
Rocky (06:52):
Coach, I want to ask you this.
One of them pegs.
I'll ask you a differentquestion, but you know they're
making a lot of this and youguys are the hoop guys, so you
can break this down better thanI can.
But you know I was reallywatching duke because duke
really shut alabama down andalabama lives and dies by the
three right, if they're reallyhot, I think the game before
(07:13):
they hit what 25 threes um inthe sweet 16 game to get to the
elite eight.
But one thing that duke doesthat I've heard all week and
through this tournament is theyswitch on all ball screens um.
And now, don't get me wrong,they're really talented.
They got three or four guysthat could go in the first round
of the NBA draft.
But, coach, talk to us a littlebit about how does that benefit
a team like Duke or any teamthat can switch and play
(07:34):
different spots?
Coach Pags (07:36):
Well, it benefits Duke because they switch all
ball screens and they're reallylong on top of that.
So a team like Duke, they'vegot guys that are
interchangeable enough.
So, and because they're so longswitching on ball screens, I
mean you don't punish thembecause they they're running out
the you know the six foot pointguard and you know you're
(07:56):
creating a mismatch where you'rethrowing it in on your big on
him or vice versa, where you'rethey're getting, you're getting
your quick guy matched up ontheir, on our five man that
can't move.
But because they're long andbecause they're interchangeable,
it's really really tough.
The way the game is now, it'sbecome so much about creating,
like college basketball, it'sbecome a little bit like the NBA
(08:16):
, where they run offense tocreate the matchup versus
offense to score off the action,and so when you can switch
every screen as well as Dukedoes, you kind of take that away
from the offense?
They were phenomenal in thelast round.
I mean the way they got out andcontested.
I mean you know, if they playat that level, it's going to be
(08:37):
really difficult for anybody tobeat them.
Rocky (08:39):
I feel like when we talk about, when we get into the two
final four games is I feel likeyou have Houston that last year,
if they could shoot the ballbetter than they did last year,
I think Houston had a reallygood chance to win the national
championship.
But I feel like this year yougot Houston.
It's that experienced teamtoughness, hardcore defense.
They're going to get after you,they're going to defend you.
(09:00):
I feel like Duke's the moreathletic team.
They got the superstars, theygot who I think is the player of
the year in Cooper Flagg.
But then you look at Floridaand people may say Florida might
be the deepest team.
And then you got Auburn, who isplaying really well right now
and the broom kid goes down, butthen he comes back in the game.
When he's in the game, man, heis dominant on the floor.
(09:20):
It was incredible.
But I mean, I feel like thesefour teams, they're all
different in style.
Coach Pasiak (09:28):
Pegs, I agree.
I think that when you mentionedthat duke and houston matchup,
you know, everyone talks abouthow good houston's defense is,
and they are, they're phenomenal, but they're going against duke
, who is just as good.
I mean, coach was just sayingthat.
I mean, you know.
So now you have a matchup of oftwo good defensive teams
matching up against each other.
So now the next question is allright now, now, whose offense
(09:48):
is going to shine?
I mean duke.
Duke is I.
I think duke is the mosttalented team left in the
tournament.
I mean, we talked about how bigthey are, how long they are, um
, but their shooting isphenomenal and that's that's
where I think is gonna.
That's that's where I thinkthis game comes down to, what it
comes down to.
I think Duke just has more guyswhere Houston is going to play
(10:10):
great defense, but do they haveenough to stop that Duke offense
?
I don't think so.
I mean you go through that Dukelineup five freshmen, obviously
, with Cooper Flagg leading thepace, but then you have Connick
Knipple, who's phenomenal, he'sthe best scorer out there, and
then you just keep going downthe list Tyrese Proctor, just as
(10:32):
good, and then you've got thebig man, malash, or however you
ever say his name.
I mean, if you stop one guy,they've got four more guys to go
at you.
So I think it's going to betough.
And I know Coach mentioned theKen Palm rating.
Duke is one of the highest inthe Ken Palm rating, I think
their second I was reading todaysecond to the 1999 Duke team.
(10:55):
So they've been up there allyear.
I mean, so that's going to be agreat matchup.
And then same thing with Floridaand Auburn.
I think Florida is anothersituation where they're just
more.
I think there is anothersituation where, um, they're
just more.
I think there's just moretalent that they have more
players out there than Auburn.
But Auburn is just so tough.
I mean you saw, um, that gamewith a kid that gets hurt, his
shoulder gets hurt, he goes out,he comes back in and takes a
(11:17):
three, knocks down a three-pointshot.
You know it's like that'stoughness.
I mean that's when it when,when it comes down to when
you're hurt and you come out anddo that.
I mean he just turned it up toanother level.
I haven't heard too much abouthis injury and where he's at.
They haven't released too muchinformation on it.
I came in probably close to thevest, but that's going to be a
big key Like how healthy is thatkid?
Rocky (11:45):
I know he went out and did everything, is he?
That's going to make a bigdifference.
Coach, I feel like thisFlorida-Auburn game all week so
far, when you turn on the radioI hear everybody talking about
it.
I feel like nobody's givenAuburn a shot against Florida.
I keep hearing well, florida'sgot.
You know, florida plays eightor nine guys.
They wear you out.
Florida went into Auburn duringthe regular season, was up big
on them and then they held on tobeat Auburn by 9 or 10, I think
(12:06):
it was.
But I feel like nobody's givenAuburn a shot.
When Auburn plays well and theycan defend and the broom kid is
as dominant as he's been.
Are we overlooking Auburn inthis game?
Coach Pags (12:17):
Maybe a little bit.
Maybe a little bit.
I think Florida was kind of thetrendy pick coming into the
tournament.
I think a lot of people, umwere kind of riding a Florida
train coming into the tournament.
Um, you know, if you didn'tlike.
Duke, you like Florida, thoughthat would that they would like
the people, that people, thatpeople were latched onto.
(12:37):
Um, you know it's going to beno surprises.
I mean those two teams familiarwith each other other.
I think Broome's got to beclose to the top of his game.
He could be the differencemaker.
But I mean Clayton's beenreally good for Florida too.
So you know you would thinkthat if it comes down to close
(12:59):
game, it would be one of thosetwo guys you know with the ball
at the end of the game and it'swhoever can make the play.
But you know I and be one ofthose two guys with the ball at
the end of the game and it'swhoever can make the play.
But I think Auburn's got apuncher's chance in this game.
Most people like Florida, butit wouldn't shock me to see
Auburn win this game at all.
Coach Pasiak (13:15):
I think with Florida they're a great
offensive rebounding team,probably the best rebounding
team left in the tournament.
But sometimes they get into theturnover game so they've got to
reduce turnover.
If Auburn can force someturnovers and get on the boards
with them, I think it'll be aclose game.
Last time they played it was, Ithink, 90 to 81.
So it was a close game.
(13:35):
In that game, florida puttingup 90 points on them.
So you know they definitely gota chance.
Rocky (13:41):
I think Florida's deeper, but I think with Auburn if they
can stay healthy.
I think we talked about it lastweek.
I think Auburn lost like theirlast three out of four games.
They really struggleddefensively.
They started the year.
I mean, they were hot right outof the gate.
I think they were 18, 19 and 0or 19 and 2, something crazy.
And then they lost three out oftheir last four.
(14:02):
They didn't really defend well.
I think defensively they'replaying really good and again I
keep saying it, the broom kid'son the floor because they'll
match up with Florida's sizeinside.
But when you look at thetournament, all these
tournaments over the years, itcomes down to the stars and I
don't think there's anybodythat's been as good as Walter
Clayton coached throughout thistournament.
Coach Pags (14:20):
No, yeah, I mean he has been.
I mean he's been their moneyguy we talked about.
You know how they've beenpushed a little bit a couple
different times in thistournament and he's the guy
where the ball is going to be inhis hands at the end of the
game.
If you know, if the game's indoubt.
Rocky (14:39):
And then, of course, one of the storylines is you got the
mentor and Bruce Pearl and thementee and Todd Golden.
And Todd Golden of course I'm aWest Coast Conference guy was
at San Francisco for a littlewhile.
I think he played at St Mary'stoo, which I think was a really
good story.
But when you look at these twocoaches it's like you want to
see.
I'd love to see Bruce Pearl getone and play for a national
(15:02):
championship.
But you know, you see theseyounger guys come in like like
Todd Golden and the job he'sdone at Florida.
I think it'll be a great game, Ithink the best of the two games
.
I think this is going to be areally good game too, and I
think you could probably flip acoin.
We'll pick it at the end.
That Houston-Duke game to me, Ithink the winner of that game
wins this whole thing.
I think Houston's got thefirepower defensively, what they
(15:31):
did to Tennessee I love RickBarnes too but they got out of
the gate fast coaching.
The way they defend Tennesseewas operating their offense
outside the three-point line.
They couldn't get to the rim.
Coach Pags (15:44):
The first half of that game.
Tennessee was completely takenout of their element in the
first half.
I do think, though, the onethat Pag touched on a little bit
earlier the one thing thatdifferentiates this Houston team
.
Houston's been really gooddefensively for a number of
years, just physical tough.
They rebound like crazy.
(16:04):
That's the other thing.
They've been dominant on theglass, but I think the thing
that differentiates this team isthis team can shoot the ball
too, yeah.
So in the past, houston hasalways run into that rut game or
that rut half where they justcan't make shots, and that's
been their undoing, and I thinkthis team is much less
susceptible to that.
(16:24):
The problem they have isthey're running the Duke.
But you know, I think thisprobably is the best opportunity
that Houston's had in recentyears to go all the way through
just because they shoot the ball, to go with that defense and
rebound, yeah, and I feel likethis year's Duke team is, you
know, from start to finish.
Rocky (16:45):
I think they've been the most athletic.
They got three or four guysthat are probably going to go in
the first round if they comeout, and I think they probably
will but I feel like theyhaven't seen.
I think, coach, the ACC to methis year was down right.
The SEC was the conference youknow this year.
So I think the ACC wasextremely down conference you
(17:07):
know this year.
So I think the ACC was wasextremely down.
But I don't think Duke has seenthe physicality that Houston's
going to get a bring on Saturdaynight.
Coach Pags (17:12):
Yeah, I don't think many people see that.
You know they they really likehow the game's officiated is
going to matter too a little bit, cause the team that plays like
Houston, you can call a foulevery time down the floor or you
cannot call much of anythingand it becomes really a physical
game.
I think if Houston turns thegame, the more physical the game
(17:37):
becomes.
I think Duke can deal with that, but I think that favors a
looser whistle.
I think will favor Houston alittle bit.
The other thing that favorsHouston a little bit is this
game is a little bit of thethrowback we talked about.
Houston's a very experiencedteam, probably the most
experienced of the four teams,whereas Duke might be the least
experienced of the four teamsbut the most talented.
(17:58):
So you know, it's kind of at adifferent level it's what we
talked about earlier where youknow tournaments and days going
by where you'd have the teamwith a little bit more
experience against a team with alittle bit more talent,
sometimes experience enough toget you over the hump when you
got really good players.
That Houston does.
Rocky (18:15):
So, coach, how do you defend if you're Calvin Sampson?
I mean, how do you defend a kidlike Cooper Flagg, who can beat
you inside, can beat yououtside, he can beat you inside,
he can beat you outside, he canbeat you off the dribble.
What do they have to do tocontain him and let somebody
else beat you?
Coach Pags (18:28):
Yeah, I would expect them to be super physical with
him, not let him get to hisspots comfortably.
Again, how it's officiated isgoing to matter a little bit.
I don't know if they may runtwo guys at him to make him give
the ball up, but that's adangerous thing against a team
as talented as Duke.
I mean, he's a willing passerand a good playmaker for other
(18:49):
guys, but I think the biggestthing they'll do is really
contest him physically for everyinch on the floor.
I think they'll be really asphysical as the law allows in
that game.
Rocky (19:04):
Pegs, when you look at this Duke team, we mentioned
obviously Cooper Flagg, theheadline, and you got Canepo.
You got a lot of guys on thisteam, as I'm talking about, and,
coach, I think you hit it righton the spot.
It depends on how theyofficiate this thing, but I
think one thing that this Duketeam has proved to me is they
didn't need flag of the ACCtournament.
Again, the ACC was down but youstill got to get through and
(19:25):
win games.
You got to find ways to digdeep.
So I mean Pags, this Duke teamto me proved that, even if
flag's not on his A game andlet's be real, against Alabama
he wasn't, but I think he stillscored 16.
He didn't get his 25-30,.
But do they need the A Cooperflag or can they get by with a,
with a b cooper flag?
Coach Pasiak (19:46):
well, I think they got enough guys.
If any team can do it withouttheir star player, it's due
because they got enough guysaround them.
Um, but I do think it iscertainly going to help to have
them.
You know, have the, the, the astar cooper flag.
I think what coach was saying.
He hit it right on the head.
I think the key for for houstonis to make Cooper Flagg
uncomfortable, because CooperFlagg I mean, if they take him
(20:08):
out of the game, he's the typeof player that he's going to
find other ways to get histeammates involved.
He's not one of those playersthat if you shut him down, you
know he might not score all thepoints but he'll find other ways
to get his teammates involved.
So I don't think, I don't thinkyou can you can take him out of
the game completely, but I dothink you know it's.
(20:28):
If you take him out of the gameand he's not, he's the B, the B
Cooper flag then Houston'sgoing to have a heck of a chance
to win this game.
But if Cooper flag is on his Agame, I think it's going to be a
struggle for Houston.
But I do think that Duke canstill get by with this B game.
Rocky (20:51):
So this was the first time since 2008, and I had to
look to see what teams were inand it was Kansas, ucla, memphis
, north Carolina.
I think that was the year CoachKansas beat Memphis when John
Calipari was there, when allfour one seeds were in the final
four.
We've been talking a little bitabout it over the last two
(21:11):
weeks.
You know America loves theCinderella.
There's no 12 seed.
That's still in it.
There's no 10 seed and I wastrying to go back because we've
talked a lot about collegefootball over the years and I
think this tournament, the 18playoff you know we're debating
on teams nine and 10 who didn'tget into the 18 playoff, but I
(21:33):
think, at the end of the day,when you look at this final four
, I think the four best teamsare left.
I think these have been theteams coach I think you hit it
on the spot earlier from startto finish have been the best all
year.
So here's the question I wantto ask you guys.
Coach Pasiak (21:54):
Did the committee get this thing right or was it
just luck how this thing playedout?
Well, I think there's always alittle bit of luck involved.
I mean right, I think.
I mean you can see, I mean Ithink they seeded them right.
I think they gave the one seedsto the top four teams in the
country 's.
That's what the committee triesto do every year.
I mean, once in a while theythere's a miss, um, but when you
see the top, they see the topfour teams in the country.
They got it right with theseating, I think, um, but then
it's got to play out.
(22:15):
I mean, you know, because it'ssuch a long tournament, um, you
know anything can happen.
You know anything can happenand, uh, it's, it's a long track
.
I mean it's a long trek to getto the Final Four, to get to the
championship game.
So all you need is a team toget hot at the right time or a
team to get cold at the righttime.
So I do think they got it right.
But I also think there's alittle bit of luck involved
(22:36):
sometimes with the draws andjust what teams get hot in your
bracket.
But I do think they got theseeding right this year.
Rocky (22:44):
Coach.
What do you think?
Coach Pags (22:45):
Yeah, I mean, I think especially the top Cs.
I think it was pretty easyhonestly for the committee.
You know it's clearly the fourbest teams, I think you know,
and one of the reasons peoplehave been complaining a little
bit about the tournament is likewhat makes the NCAA tournament
kind of special is like it'sdesigned to trip up the best
(23:07):
teams.
I guess the way I would put itit's a one-and-done format and
especially each weekend you onlygot a one-day turnaround to
prepare for your second game ofthe weekend.
So, in a sense, what createsMarch Madness magic, I guess, is
the potential to trip up thebest team.
(23:28):
I think, if you're looking forversus, like the NBA playoffs,
where it's a seven game seriesand it really identifies the
best team and crowns themchampion at the end of the day,
I think the difference this yearis the separation, you know,
from the top of the bracket tothe bottom of the bracket.
You know that's why we sawpower conferences teams and
that's why, and um, I think Iread something where the four
(23:51):
teams in the finals this yearthere's only been six other
teams total in the history ofchempom with as high of
efficiency ratings as these fourteams this year.
So the separation between thoseteams and and the rest of the
pack is is a lot more than ittypically would be.
Rocky (24:08):
Yeah, and I think you know again we've said this is, I
think, the days of, like, theValparaiso kids that are staying
for four years and you know, bythe time those kids are juniors
and seniors, you know they canmake a run in the NCAA
tournament and really, when youlook at this whole tournament,
it's been chalk round one, roundtwo all the way through to the
final four.
I know we talked a little bitabout this last week, but do we
(24:30):
think this is the norm now?
Going forward with the NIL, thetransfer portal, and how
coaches now can come in and flipa roster and it's like the
mid-majors now are just astepping stone to the power four
job, do you think going forward, the NCAA tournament coaches
this is what we're going to seenow a lot of chalk really feels
that way.
Coach Pags (24:49):
You know, really, really, you know, the one thing
that'll be interesting is thisthis settlement with the house
case that's coming up, um, thisspring, where the schools will
have 20 and a half million tothat they can pay directly to
athletes, basically, um, thatcould be a really good thing for
a conference like the Big East,because the power for most of
(25:10):
that money is going to football.
What doesn't go to football isgoing to basketball, and what
doesn't go to football orbasketball there'll be some
crumbs left for the other sports.
So I think that a conferencelike the Big East or a school
like Gonzaga or St Mary's, likea traditional basketball power
that doesn't have money investedin big-time football, if they
(25:31):
choose to pour most of thatmoney into basketball, that
could help equalize the field.
But that said, like you'restill not going to get the NIL
money at some of those schools,at the Villanovas or the St
Johns that you get at Alabama orMichigan.
So the NIL is still going to bea factor, but I do think, as the
money increases, we're going tosee more and more of what we
(25:52):
saw this year.
Coach Pasiak (25:53):
Yeah, I agree, I think you're going to start
seeing the separation of the bigboys versus the not-so-big boys
.
But I also think the one thingthat is maybe a positive of this
whole thing is you're going tosee teams who can get better
real quick, right, you're goingto see a lot of teams who maybe
this year are not very good.
They go all in and they theyget a bunch of money uh, nil
(26:15):
money, like it's.
Like I said, it's not afootball school.
They pour all that money intothe program and they can be good
the next year.
So you know, I don't thinkthere could be situations where,
you know, one year you're downand out and the next year you
got five new guys coming in asstarters.
I mean, we saw it this weekwith some.
You know, if you've beenwatching the comings and goings,
I mean some teams.
(26:35):
There was one team that we weretalking about that they lost
everybody.
They lost all their players.
Some guys graduated and thenthe other guys just transferred
out.
I mean even syracuse, locally,look, I mean they're, they're
down to two guys now.
Um, you know, and they're,they're basically starting over.
I mean they got, they got agood freshman class coming in
next year, but uh, or this year,we recall, but, um, again, it's
(26:56):
a chance for you know, can they?
Can they hit the transferportal hard and bring in some
guys to put, put somethingaround them?
Um, and they can be good nextyear, as soon as next year, if
they get the right guys.
Rocky (27:07):
Coach, you make a good point you were mentioning.
You know I want to take BuzzWilliams for an example here,
who just left Texas A&M now togo to Maryland.
And Buzz has a history ofstaying at a school for three,
four years and then bouncing.
But the people we're talkingtoday on sports radio with Texas
A&M, the money all goingbasically to the football
(27:28):
program.
You know these basketball guysdon't like that.
They want to go somewhere thatthey can invest in the
basketball program and you knowI was saying last week like a
school like Texas A&M inbasketball.
I think if you were to ask thefans, the athletic department,
and say, were people happy withthe year A&M had?
And they were competitive, theymade a little bit of run right,
(27:49):
I think they won one, a couplegames, I think they got to the
second weekend.
That I think that's okay forthose schools.
But you think that's one of thereasons why you're seeing some
of these coaches and I'm justusing him as an example coach
that he leaves there and goes toMaryland because of the
football school and the moneythat goes into the football
program.
Coach Pags (28:06):
I'm sure that plays into it.
I mean, willard left Marylandbecause he wasn't happy with
Maryland's commitment tobasketball and what they were
willing to invest.
So you know, I think Marylandhas been more of a basketball
school like the football has notreally competed at a national
level, of a basketball schoollike that football has not
(28:28):
really competed at a nationallevel.
So, you know, buzz, you know,maybe feels like he's got more
of a more of an equal playingfield with at Maryland in terms
of where they prioritizebasketball versus football.
But, like I said, you know,willard just left.
So and on the way out the doorhe was complaining about their
support of basketball.
You know, for a month before heleft, complaining about their
support of basketball, you know,for a month before he left, so
(28:49):
you know and the money in thecoaching contracts.
That drives a lot of it too.
So but I think you know coachesare really going to look at
that going forward, how schoolsare going to spend their money
when this especially when it's20 and a half million that the
schools have direct control overcomes into play.
Coach Pasiak (29:07):
You're hearing grumblings already with Nate Ota
at Alabama.
I mean, obviously Alabama is afootball school right, but
you've been hearing somegrumblings about whether or not
he's happy there.
I don't know if it's justbecause he's trying to get a
bigger contract out of Alabamaor obviously we know Alabama all
the money is football right,but he went there and he built a
great program in Alabama, soyou'd think that he would want
(29:27):
to be there long-term to makethat.
You know it's never going to bea basketball school, but he's
got a heck of a basketball teamthere.
But you're starting to hearsome grumblings about whether he
wants to stay there or headelsewhere.
Rocky (29:40):
So let me ask you guys this question.
There's been some debate toothis week on who the player of
the year is, and right now it'sCooper Flagg and the broom kid
from Auburn, jeff Goodman, wasgetting kind of hammered on
radio because he was sayingco-players of the year with both
of them and some of the guyswere saying Cooper Flagg by far
has been the best player allyear.
And I was kind of going back tothe Heisman Trophy thing and I
(30:02):
thought Travis Hunter shouldhave won it because I said he
was the best player in thecountry.
He might not have been the bestreceiver.
You can argue whatever you wantto how you want to debate it,
but I say, if you take somebodyoff the team, how would they be?
If you take the genti kid offof Boise State, I'm not sure how
good Boise State would havebeen.
You take, you know, hunter offof Colorado.
I'm not, but it's like you takeFlagg off of Duke.
(30:23):
They still got through to theACC.
I still would say Cooper Flaggis the best player in the
country from a talent standpoint.
Would you guys agree, coach?
Do you think he gets the awardat the end of the year?
Coach Pags (30:34):
I mean, I think he should.
I think he's the best playerand he's going to be the number
one pick in the NBA draft To me.
As good as Bruin has been andsome other guys have been, I
think Flagg is clear-cut numberone player in the country.
Coach Pasiak (30:52):
I agree, I think he's the best player in the
country, but no doubt and Ithink he gets it hands down I
think the Broome kid is a closesecond, but I don't think he's
done enough like Flagg has done.
I mean, yes, duke's got otherguys there, but it's been all
about Cooper Flagg all year.
Rocky (31:11):
Have you guys been watching any of the girls' games
?
You guys got a favorite for thewomen's game Coach.
Who do you like?
Coach Pags (31:19):
Haven't watched a ton of the girls' tournament at
all.
Can't bet against UConn though.
You know Oriana in thatsituation and you know it's been
close to chalk in thattournament too, which is no
surprise.
On the women's side, you knowthe women tend to be closer to
chalk because the gap betweenthe best and the worst teams is
100 times what it is in men'sbasketball.
(31:40):
But you know I go with UConnthere.
Rocky (31:42):
So Scott Van Pelt last night I think it was last night,
yeah, because the girls playedlast night After the Connecticut
game.
They were interviewing GinoAuriemma on ESPN and Van Pelt
said you know, coach, you'regoing to go, you know, for the
underdog UConn team.
And Auriemma was like the whathe goes.
I don't think I've been calledan underdog in 20-something
(32:03):
years.
And again, of course, paigeBecker.
I love Paige.
I'm hoping that she wins thisthing.
But the girls' games have allbeen great games.
I mean it's been chalk.
I mean you've got SouthCarolina on one side against
Texas, who's been good all year.
You've got Geno, the only twoseed to get through, which you
know I see two seed.
You're like they're really nota two seed, they're really a one
(32:25):
seed.
They kind of caught a breakwith Juju Watkins going down for
USC because people wanted tosee Paige against Juju.
I'm with you, coach.
I love Gino, I love Paige.
I'm hoping Connecticut can getit done.
Here's a crazy stat.
As they said, if Paige Beckersdoesn't win the national
championship, she'll be one ofthe only all-time greats at
Connecticut to go to four finalfours and never win a national
(32:50):
championship, which I think iscrazy, that is crazy.
Who do you like Pegs?
Coach Pasiak (32:54):
I like UConn too.
I mean I was sad to see Jujuget hurt.
I was watching that game alittle bit.
I watched that game a littlebit.
I watched a little bit of theUConn game and then I was
watching TCU with Haley.
I like Haley Van Lith, I thinkshe's a great player and I was
watching her a little bit butbit.
But I, I that's besides thoseteams.
I don't really know uh muchabout the other ones, but I I
(33:15):
can't, I can't go against genioariana too.
He's just so dominant.
Um, but I think other schools,I mean other schools have
finally caught up to him.
I mean, for the three years itwas, it was you kind of nobody
else.
Um, I I think you've seen uhthe other teams catch up to to
them, um, but I think they're.
It's going to be hard to beathim in this tournament, I think,
with these last four teamsremaining.
Rocky (33:37):
Coach real fast.
I want to go back to Tom Izzois another one of my favorite
coaches to watch.
Coach you always see theemotions on his sleeves in the
press conferences with the kids.
I was pulling for him really tobeat Auburn.
I know him and Bruce Pearl aregood friends but some people
(33:58):
think that maybe Izzo's got oneor two years left.
What's your thoughts on coachIzzo?
Coach Pags (34:03):
I don't know, just as an observer.
I kind of see him as being moreout of the kind of from the
world of I don't know Krzyzewski, williams, boeheim, laranega,
bennett, those kind of guys.
I see him as being more thatmold of a coach which would tell
(34:26):
me he probably doesn't have awhole lot longer to go, because
I don't know what his thoughtsare on the current landscape.
I think that's what's drivenmost of those guys out of
coaching is like the you knowthe change in the game with the
portal and the NIL and the yearto year and everything versus.
I think guys like Patino andCalipari maybe, are wired to
(34:48):
navigate that space a littlemore.
So you know, Izzo comes acrossas, like you know, being kind of
young at heart and still havinggood energy, but it wouldn't
shock me to see him go the waylike.
He reminds me a little bit ofSaban in the football world and
you know Saban like it felt likehe had a lot of, you know, a
(35:09):
lot of gas still in the tank,but he just wasn't, didn't like
where college sports was headed,the landscape and and whatnot,
and it wouldn't surprise me tosee Izzo go down that path yeah,
I've seen some stuff on Izzolately and basically what I've,
what I've been hearing, is thatobviously we know that he's old
school, he does and he does ithis way and he he's not willing.
Coach Pasiak (35:29):
What I've been hearing is that he's not really
willing to to go down thislandscape of the new uh, the new
basketball with nil andeverything.
He's kind of doing it, doing itthe same way.
He's always done it.
From what I've been hearing, um, and I think if he keeps doing
that, I don't know how long he'sgonna be able to last to keep
doing that.
I think that's it.
I think he's gonna want to keepdoing it that way.
I don't see him really changinginto this new, new way.
(35:51):
Um, I think he's kind of stuckin his old ways and he's going
to stick to that.
But eventually I think it'sgoing to run out where he's not
going to be able to compete.
I mean, as long as he's stilldoing well and he's in Elite
Eights, I think they'll keep himas long as he wants to stay.
But I don't see him if hedoesn't change.
I don't see him ever breakinginto a Final Four, winning an
(36:18):
international title again if hecontinues to not get into the
whole NAL and really dive inlike everybody else has.
Rocky (36:21):
Yeah, and something was different this year through the
NCAA tournament, when you seethe emotions with Izzo on the
floor, with his guy I mean he'salways like that anyways.
But I thought there wassomething different this year,
even in some of his pressconferences when they were
asking him about the portal andyou know when it opens and you
know just some of his responses.
I wouldn't be surprised if hegoes one more year and kind of
(36:43):
goes off.
I think he really wanted a shotto get to one more Final Four.
I think he sees that windowCoach.
I think it was a good referenceto say Nick Saban, because I
would probably say the samething.
But I just wanted to see whatyour guys' thoughts were on Izzo
.
So, all right, well, let's pickthese two games, let's see who
you guys like.
And I'm going to tell you I'mgoing to stick with my picks for
(37:04):
the national championship.
But I'm really torn with thesecond game here.
But we'll start with the firstgame.
The 6-0-9 tip.
Right now, florida is minus twoand a half to Auburn Pags.
I'll start with you on this one.
Who do you like?
Coach Pasiak (37:19):
I like Florida in this game.
I think they have too much.
I mean I would love.
To me Auburn is like you knowwe talk about there's no
Cinderella.
To me Auburn is the Cinderella.
I mean there's no Cinderellaleft in this tournament.
But to me Auburn is thatCinderella because they kind of
play like their coach.
I mean he's fiery, the team isfiery, and if anybody can pull
(37:42):
it off, I think they can do it.
But I just think it's going tobe a close game.
But I think towards the endFlorida is going to pull away.
So I like Florida in this game.
Rocky (37:54):
Coach.
What do you like?
Coach Pags (37:55):
Yeah, I like Florida too.
I think you know Auburn, Ithink has the puncher's chance,
especially if Broome does hisbest, danny Manning, and puts
the team on his back, you know.
But I think Florida's depth inthe end, you know I have to lean
towards them.
Wouldn't shock me if Auburn won.
But I think Florida, you knowFlorida, all odds are that they
(38:15):
come through that game.
Rocky (38:17):
Well, I had Florida from day one in the national
championships.
I'm going to stick with Florida, but, coach, I'm with you.
I wouldn't be surprised.
I just think too many peopleare counting Auburn out of this
game and not giving them achance to win this game, and I
think that's what Bruce Pearllikes.
I think Pearl likes being theunderdog in this game and I
think that's what Bruce Pearllikes.
I think Pearl likes being theunderdog in this game.
And Florida's been on the ropes.
But again, a kid like WalterClayton Jr, who's been fantastic
(38:41):
down the stretch, I think thisFlorida team's been tested.
I think they're the deeper team.
We'll see how healthy Broom isIf he can stay healthy, stay on
the floor.
But I'm with you guys.
I'm going to take Florida andthe gambling guy that I am.
I'm going to take Florida andthe gambling guy that I am.
I'm going to take Floridalaying the two and a half in
that game.
This is the game I'm reallytorn on because I have Duke and
(39:01):
Florida playing for the nationalchampionship in my bracket.
But I am really torn on thisgame because I think Houston's
got a really good shot to beatDuke.
Coach, I'll start with you.
Who do you like?
Coach Pags (39:11):
I got Duke here.
You know.
Know, when in doubt, go withthe best player.
You know, I'd be shocked if Iwouldn't be shocked like I.
I think duke's the better teamand, um, you know we talked
about houston shooting it well.
I mean, I think they have toshoot it well, but I think duke
makes you not shoot it well, um,you know.
(39:31):
So I, I, and at the end of theday, like I said, you know, if
you're in doubt, go with thebest player pegs you want duke.
Coach Pasiak (39:39):
Yeah, I agree, I I don't think.
I don't think this game isgoing to be as close as as some
maybe some people are saying.
Um, it's weird, you know, likecoach said, you know it would
shock me, but it wouldn't shockme.
I think houston can definitelypull it off, um it, but it would
shock me, but, but it alsowouldn't shock me.
But I think Duke is just toopowerful.
They got too much.
So I don't think it's going tobe as close as a lot of people
(40:00):
are maybe saying.
With this game I think Dukewins easily.
Rocky (40:05):
So I'm not a Duke guy, but when these brackets came out
, I didn't even look at thebrackets.
Coach, I'm with you because Isaid Duke has the best player in
the country, so I literally putDuke winning it all from day
one, without even seeing thesebrackets.
I just think that even Houston,as tough as they are, I think
Houston could shut somebody down.
Maybe they hold flag to 15points or so, but I think Duke's
(40:28):
got too many weapons thatthey'll throw at Houston and I
really think that Duke'sswitching all the ball screens
and the athleticism that theypossess.
I don't think Houston has seena team like Duke all year, but I
also don't think Duke has seena team as physical, as we talked
about earlier, that they'regoing to see pegs.
I don't think Duke runs awaywith this game.
I think this is like a one-twopossession game with a minute to
(40:51):
go, and what coach is going todo there?
Make the adjustments late inthis game.
I think if Houston keeps thisthing close, this might be
Calvin Sampson's best team thathe's had since taking over at
Houston.
And coach, you hit it on thespot earlier this is the best
shooting team he's had to goalong with the best defensive
team that he's had.
(41:11):
So I think it's going to becloser.
I'm going to stay my pick.
I like Duke to march on andplay Monday night.
So we all got Duke and Floridaguys.
So I might as well ask you guyswho's cutting the nuts down?
Pags, I'll start with you thistime.
Coach Pasiak (41:24):
That's tough, you know.
I have.
I had Florida in all mybrackets winning it.
I had Florida and Duke, but nowI'm starting to.
If I can change my bracket, Iwould.
I would pick Duke over Florida,but what a battle that's going
to be.
I have no idea who to pick inthat.
Really, I think both teams areso well matched, they're both so
big and they both have.
They're both loaded with talent.
(41:45):
So when they match up, I mean Ithink it'll be a phenomenal
game, maybe come down to lastpossession.
But my heart says Duke.
But again, I think game Maybecome down to last possession.
Rocky (41:59):
My heart says Duke but again I think it could be a
toss-up.
I don't know.
I just had to look at my YahooFantasy bracket to see what I
predicted the score.
So I'll give you mine.
In a second Coach, you've gotto be riding Cooper Flag in the
Blue Devils, right.
Coach Pags (42:10):
You're riding one of them, yep, go with the best
player.
I agree I got him too.
Rocky (42:15):
I had an 86-82 Duke in the final game and you know I
don't know Again, I'm not a hugeDuke guy.
But you know I got to give somecredit to John Shire because
filling in for Coach K, fillingin for any of these legends,
hasn't really worked out wellreally in any sport but Hasn't
really worked out well really inany sport.
But, man, coach, you've got totip your hat to John Shire and
the job that he's been doing,continuing to recruit at a high
(42:39):
level.
Coach Pags (42:40):
Yeah, I mean he has really, like you said, he's
bucked the trend a little bit,because usually you know you
want to be the guy who follows,the guy who follows the legend.
Usually the guy that comes rightafter the legend.
It's tough sledding becausepeople are, you know, people are
expecting so much of you.
You know the other thing withShire, like he's the only guy of
(43:03):
the four that doesn't havebaggage, you know, it's true,
you know, it's really.
I find it really fascinatinghow Samson and Pearl have kind
of rehabilitated their careersand their images after some of
the trouble they got into withthe NCAA years ago.
And then, you know, golden hada little bit of off-court issue
recently too.
But Shire has been, you knowhe's proven to be, like you know
(43:24):
, the ideal successor to Kay, atleast so far.
Rocky (43:28):
Yeah, that's a good point .
I feel like all those coachesCoach you mentioned have all had
second and third chances, andhere they are, some in the final
four and some on to Chris Beard, another one who?
And then what's his name?
The coach that's?
I'm drawing a blank here.
That's going to Texas, to theleft, xavier.
Oh, you guys got to give me aname I'm drawing a blank here.
(43:50):
Yes, Sean Miller?
Yep, he was another guy thatgot himself in a little bit of
trouble, and here he comes outagain smelling like a rose, a
big payday going to Texas.
So these guys seem to find waysto get away with things, right,
coach?
Coach Pasiak (44:02):
People forget quickly, right Once you start
winning again.
People forget the past.
Coach Pags (44:07):
Well, you know, it's like, as long as your talent or
your production exceeds yourindiscretion, you've always got
a job right, whether you're acoach or an athlete.
Rocky (44:17):
Yeah very true, very true .
Well, listen guys, I appreciateit.
I appreciate you guys talkingsome hoops.
We're all riding with Duke.
We'll see how it pans out, butI think the Duke-Houston game I
think to me the winner of thatgame, I think wins it all.
But we'll see what happens.
But, coach, listen, Iappreciate you taking the time
always and I love talking on onsports watch and we'll do it
(44:38):
again soon.
Coach Pags (44:39):
Sounds great.
Always great to talk to youguys.
Rocky (44:41):
Awesome.
Thanks, coach.
Pags I'll ask you to see what'sgoing on the weekend for sports
watch, but good to have you onbuddy.
Coach Pasiak (44:48):
Yeah, always appreciate.
It, All right guys have a goodweek.
Rocky (44:51):
Enjoy the weekend.
So that was great.
I want to thank Coach Paggs andCoach Pajak for coming on to
talk some Final Four with mehere tonight.
On the Rock Pile Some big newscoming up.
Stay tuned.
Over the next week or so I'llintroduce the guest for the
Beyond the Game podcast, whichis going to be fantastic.
(45:12):
It's something different that Ihaven't done, so stay tuned for
that.
Have a great weekend.
Watching some collegebasketball Again should be two
really good games on Saturdaynight.
So, on behalf of the Rockpilehere tonight, enjoy the weekend
everybody.
We'll see you again soon.
Get a chance tonight to talk some final four hoops with
the coaches.
I got Coach P back.
I got Coach Paggs back tonight.
I'm excited to talk.
I want to get the guys'thoughts on Cooper Flagg, Mr
Broome from Auburn.
There's been a lot of debategoing back and forth who's the
player of the year.
This final four is going to bea really good matchup.
We'll get the guys' thoughts onthat.
(00:23):
This is the first time in a longtime I've went chalked
throughout my picks and a coupleof my brackets.
I'm like third out of like 50to 100 people and normally I'm
kind of in the middle of thepack because I do go with a lot
of upsets in the first couplerounds.
So I want to give you some ofthe bracket talk and much more.
So make sure to stay tuned.
The Rack Pile is coming rightback at you.
(01:02):
All right, welcome to the RockPile here tonight.
The Rock Pile tonight bringsthe Final Four show.
Hard to believe that Saturdayis the National Semifinals and
then Monday night will be theNational Championship game.
Hard to believe collegebasketball is coming to an end.
You got the Lady Final Fourthat starts Friday night and
then their final game will be onSunday night and the boys will
(01:22):
be on Monday night.
So, without further ado, let'sbring on the coaches here.
We'll get Coach Paggs, Coach P.
What's going on, gentlemen?
How are we tonight?
Coach Pags (01:33):
Doing great, doing great.
What's going on, boys?
Rocky (01:36):
Well, I was telling you guys before we got started.
I walked in the house.
My wife was at soccer with mydaughter, my son was at baseball
tryouts and I at soccer with mydaughter, my son was at
baseball tryouts.
And I walked in the door and Isaid I got to go downstairs.
And she said for what?
I said I got to go talk hoopswith the guys.
She goes all right, well, nicetalking to you too.
So that's kind of how my mynight went.
But we got a really, really gooduh final four and we'll get to
(01:57):
that in just a little bit.
And I was saying before we cameon, this is the first year,
like I don't know, I we talkedabout it, I think, last week
that there's not a lot of upsets.
There was only what one buzzerbeater, the kid from Maryland,
had, the buzzer beater in theSweet 16 game.
We really haven't seen any ofthose this year.
You got chalk in the final four, which the more I've been
(02:19):
thinking of these matchups,coming in tonight to talk with
you guys, I think they're tworeally good games and four
really good teams.
I think any of these four teamscan win it.
But what's your guys' thoughts,pags, I'll start with you first
.
What's your guys' you knowwhat's your thoughts been like
this tournament and you know thefinal four teams that we got.
That we'll dive into here in asecond.
But what's your early thoughts?
Coach Pasiak (02:39):
Well, I agree, I think the four teams you have
here, I think any four of theseteams, can win the national
championship.
I think you honestly have thefour best teams in the country
playing college basketball atthe end of the year, which is
what you want, right?
I mean, I know people havecomplained, and myself included,
(03:01):
that March Madness this yeardidn't have that same excitement
that we've had in the past withthose buzzer beaters.
But the four number onesgetting getting to the final
four, um, I mean, isn't thiswhat we want at the end of the
day, when we talk about a lot incollege football, how we want
the best, the best teams playingat the end of the year, um, I
think that's exactly what youhave.
I mean you got the four numberones and I mean nobody, nobody's
really saying there's thisshould have been a different
number one.
All four of these teams are, youknow, legitimate number ones,
(03:24):
with no one's complaining thatthese are not number one teams
should be out there and they'vereally have proved themselves
throughout the tournament.
I mean all four of these teamshave really rolled throughout
the tournament.
I mean florida a little bit ofa scare in the last game, but
they, they showed uh resilienceand they showed how they can uh
fight back as like a 10 pointlead with about five or six
minutes left and they just justcame right back.
(03:45):
So I think it shapes up for areally good weekend, really fun
weekend of basketball.
I think we're going to seereally good basketball this
weekend.
Rocky (03:52):
What do you think, Coach?
Coach Pags (03:54):
I think I mean these four teams, if you're big in
the analytics.
I mean they've been the topfour teams in the Ken Palm since
February, in some order oranother, so I mean it's no real
surprise.
I think what's kind of happenedand we talked a little bit last
week when you had 16 teams allfrom power conferences, and I
think it's kind of manifesteditself even more in the finals
(04:17):
is that you know, the rich aregoing to continue to get richer.
I think in this era, with NILand the transfer portal and
everything, I think that it'sgoing to be harder and harder
for that team to come out of thepack because the advantage that
they used to have you know themid-major, or the team that goes
on the late run and gets deepinto the tournament, you know
(04:39):
Elite Eight Final Four as asurprise they typically have the
veteran team that had beentogether three, four years with
really good guard play andsometimes that would be enough
to overcome maybe the moreindividually talented team with
less experience, the guys thatwere going to be the one and
done, one and two year guys andthen going to the NBA.
(05:01):
So I think now what happens isthose really good players at the
low major and mid-major level.
They're not staying four years.
You know they're guided to.
You know player of the year,all-conference rookie of the
year at one of the mid-majorleagues.
You know they're in the portaland they're getting paid at one
of the high-major schools.
So I think what we're seeingthis year is probably kind of
(05:23):
going to be the trend in theforeseeable future.
Rocky (05:27):
You know I want to talk a little bit about the Elite
Eight games first.
And you know I want to startwith the Florida-Texas game
because Coach Cal Arkansas hadthe big lead against Texas Tech.
They blew that game late andthen Texas Tech has Florida on
the ropes.
I think Texas Tech was up ninewith what two, three minutes to
go in a game and then WalterClayton Jr hit a couple big
threes.
(05:47):
They got Florida back in it andonce they got ahead they closed
it out late.
And I feel like in football wesay toughness, hard-nosed
defense wins championships andgood guard play in the NCAA
tournament, this Final Four andeven through these Elite Eight
games, coach P, the guards andthe toughness of these teams to
me is what's really stood out.
Coach Pags (06:09):
Yeah, you know I think the toughness, but you
know there's got to be some shotmaking too a little bit.
But I think the commondenominator of all four of these
teams is I think they can alllike Auburn, I think, has really
improved defensively.
So I think all four of theseteams really guard and you know
(06:30):
Florida we talked about lastweek when they got by UConn it
was like that was the game youknow where.
If you're a top team, there'sone test and you know they got
another one in the last go roundand they passed them versus you
know it's been.
Duke has kind of had their wayup until a little bit.
They got challenged in the lastround, so that's a really
fascinating matchup, if you know.
(06:50):
If we get to that point,florida and Duke.
Rocky (06:52):
Coach, I want to ask you this.
One of them pegs.
I'll ask you a differentquestion, but you know they're
making a lot of this and youguys are the hoop guys, so you
can break this down better thanI can.
But you know I was reallywatching duke because duke
really shut alabama down andalabama lives and dies by the
three right, if they're reallyhot, I think the game before
(07:13):
they hit what 25 threes um inthe sweet 16 game to get to the
elite eight.
But one thing that duke doesthat I've heard all week and
through this tournament is theyswitch on all ball screens um.
And now, don't get me wrong,they're really talented.
They got three or four guysthat could go in the first round
of the NBA draft.
But, coach, talk to us a littlebit about how does that benefit
a team like Duke or any teamthat can switch and play
(07:34):
different spots?
Coach Pags (07:36):
Well, it benefits Duke because they switch all
ball screens and they're reallylong on top of that.
So a team like Duke, they'vegot guys that are
interchangeable enough.
So, and because they're so longswitching on ball screens, I
mean you don't punish thembecause they they're running out
the you know the six foot pointguard and you know you're
(07:56):
creating a mismatch where you'rethrowing it in on your big on
him or vice versa, where you'rethey're getting, you're getting
your quick guy matched up ontheir, on our five man that
can't move.
But because they're long andbecause they're interchangeable,
it's really really tough.
The way the game is now, it'sbecome so much about creating,
like college basketball, it'sbecome a little bit like the NBA
(08:16):
, where they run offense tocreate the matchup versus
offense to score off the action,and so when you can switch
every screen as well as Dukedoes, you kind of take that away
from the offense?
They were phenomenal in thelast round.
I mean the way they got out andcontested.
I mean you know, if they playat that level, it's going to be
(08:37):
really difficult for anybody tobeat them.
Rocky (08:39):
I feel like when we talk about, when we get into the two
final four games is I feel likeyou have Houston that last year,
if they could shoot the ballbetter than they did last year,
I think Houston had a reallygood chance to win the national
championship.
But I feel like this year yougot Houston.
It's that experienced teamtoughness, hardcore defense.
They're going to get after you,they're going to defend you.
(09:00):
I feel like Duke's the moreathletic team.
They got the superstars, theygot who I think is the player of
the year in Cooper Flagg.
But then you look at Floridaand people may say Florida might
be the deepest team.
And then you got Auburn, who isplaying really well right now
and the broom kid goes down, butthen he comes back in the game.
When he's in the game, man, heis dominant on the floor.
(09:20):
It was incredible.
But I mean, I feel like thesefour teams, they're all
different in style.
Coach Pasiak (09:28):
Pegs, I agree.
I think that when you mentionedthat duke and houston matchup,
you know, everyone talks abouthow good houston's defense is,
and they are, they're phenomenal, but they're going against duke
, who is just as good.
I mean, coach was just sayingthat.
I mean, you know.
So now you have a matchup of oftwo good defensive teams
matching up against each other.
So now the next question is allright now, now, whose offense
(09:48):
is going to shine?
I mean duke.
Duke is I.
I think duke is the mosttalented team left in the
tournament.
I mean, we talked about how bigthey are, how long they are, um
, but their shooting isphenomenal and that's that's
where I think is gonna.
That's that's where I thinkthis game comes down to, what it
comes down to.
I think Duke just has more guyswhere Houston is going to play
(10:10):
great defense, but do they haveenough to stop that Duke offense
?
I don't think so.
I mean you go through that Dukelineup five freshmen, obviously
, with Cooper Flagg leading thepace, but then you have Connick
Knipple, who's phenomenal, he'sthe best scorer out there, and
then you just keep going downthe list Tyrese Proctor, just as
(10:32):
good, and then you've got thebig man, malash, or however you
ever say his name.
I mean, if you stop one guy,they've got four more guys to go
at you.
So I think it's going to betough.
And I know Coach mentioned theKen Palm rating.
Duke is one of the highest inthe Ken Palm rating, I think
their second I was reading todaysecond to the 1999 Duke team.
(10:55):
So they've been up there allyear.
I mean, so that's going to be agreat matchup.
And then same thing with Floridaand Auburn.
I think Florida is anothersituation where they're just
more.
I think there is anothersituation where, um, they're
just more.
I think there's just moretalent that they have more
players out there than Auburn.
But Auburn is just so tough.
I mean you saw, um, that gamewith a kid that gets hurt, his
shoulder gets hurt, he goes out,he comes back in and takes a
(11:17):
three, knocks down a three-pointshot.
You know it's like that'stoughness.
I mean that's when it when,when it comes down to when
you're hurt and you come out anddo that.
I mean he just turned it up toanother level.
I haven't heard too much abouthis injury and where he's at.
They haven't released too muchinformation on it.
I came in probably close to thevest, but that's going to be a
big key Like how healthy is thatkid?
Rocky (11:45):
I know he went out and did everything, is he?
That's going to make a bigdifference.
Coach, I feel like thisFlorida-Auburn game all week so
far, when you turn on the radioI hear everybody talking about
it.
I feel like nobody's givenAuburn a shot against Florida.
I keep hearing well, florida'sgot.
You know, florida plays eightor nine guys.
They wear you out.
Florida went into Auburn duringthe regular season, was up big
on them and then they held on tobeat Auburn by 9 or 10, I think
(12:06):
it was.
But I feel like nobody's givenAuburn a shot.
When Auburn plays well and theycan defend and the broom kid is
as dominant as he's been.
Are we overlooking Auburn inthis game?
Coach Pags (12:17):
Maybe a little bit.
Maybe a little bit.
I think Florida was kind of thetrendy pick coming into the
tournament.
I think a lot of people, umwere kind of riding a Florida
train coming into the tournament.
Um, you know, if you didn'tlike.
Duke, you like Florida, thoughthat would that they would like
the people, that people, thatpeople were latched onto.
(12:37):
Um, you know it's going to beno surprises.
I mean those two teams familiarwith each other other.
I think Broome's got to beclose to the top of his game.
He could be the differencemaker.
But I mean Clayton's beenreally good for Florida too.
So you know you would thinkthat if it comes down to close
(12:59):
game, it would be one of thosetwo guys you know with the ball
at the end of the game and it'swhoever can make the play.
But you know I and be one ofthose two guys with the ball at
the end of the game and it'swhoever can make the play.
But I think Auburn's got apuncher's chance in this game.
Most people like Florida, butit wouldn't shock me to see
Auburn win this game at all.
Coach Pasiak (13:15):
I think with Florida they're a great
offensive rebounding team,probably the best rebounding
team left in the tournament.
But sometimes they get into theturnover game so they've got to
reduce turnover.
If Auburn can force someturnovers and get on the boards
with them, I think it'll be aclose game.
Last time they played it was, Ithink, 90 to 81.
So it was a close game.
(13:35):
In that game, florida puttingup 90 points on them.
So you know they definitely gota chance.
Rocky (13:41):
I think Florida's deeper, but I think with Auburn if they
can stay healthy.
I think we talked about it lastweek.
I think Auburn lost like theirlast three out of four games.
They really struggleddefensively.
They started the year.
I mean, they were hot right outof the gate.
I think they were 18, 19 and 0or 19 and 2, something crazy.
And then they lost three out oftheir last four.
(14:02):
They didn't really defend well.
I think defensively they'replaying really good and again I
keep saying it, the broom kid'son the floor because they'll
match up with Florida's sizeinside.
But when you look at thetournament, all these
tournaments over the years, itcomes down to the stars and I
don't think there's anybodythat's been as good as Walter
Clayton coached throughout thistournament.
Coach Pags (14:20):
No, yeah, I mean he has been.
I mean he's been their moneyguy we talked about.
You know how they've beenpushed a little bit a couple
different times in thistournament and he's the guy
where the ball is going to be inhis hands at the end of the
game.
If you know, if the game's indoubt.
Rocky (14:39):
And then, of course, one of the storylines is you got the
mentor and Bruce Pearl and thementee and Todd Golden.
And Todd Golden of course I'm aWest Coast Conference guy was
at San Francisco for a littlewhile.
I think he played at St Mary'stoo, which I think was a really
good story.
But when you look at these twocoaches it's like you want to
see.
I'd love to see Bruce Pearl getone and play for a national
(15:02):
championship.
But you know, you see theseyounger guys come in like like
Todd Golden and the job he'sdone at Florida.
I think it'll be a great game, Ithink the best of the two games
.
I think this is going to be areally good game too, and I
think you could probably flip acoin.
We'll pick it at the end.
That Houston-Duke game to me, Ithink the winner of that game
wins this whole thing.
I think Houston's got thefirepower defensively, what they
(15:31):
did to Tennessee I love RickBarnes too but they got out of
the gate fast coaching.
The way they defend Tennesseewas operating their offense
outside the three-point line.
They couldn't get to the rim.
Coach Pags (15:44):
The first half of that game.
Tennessee was completely takenout of their element in the
first half.
I do think, though, the onethat Pag touched on a little bit
earlier the one thing thatdifferentiates this Houston team
.
Houston's been really gooddefensively for a number of
years, just physical tough.
They rebound like crazy.
(16:04):
That's the other thing.
They've been dominant on theglass, but I think the thing
that differentiates this team isthis team can shoot the ball
too, yeah.
So in the past, houston hasalways run into that rut game or
that rut half where they justcan't make shots, and that's
been their undoing, and I thinkthis team is much less
susceptible to that.
(16:24):
The problem they have isthey're running the Duke.
But you know, I think thisprobably is the best opportunity
that Houston's had in recentyears to go all the way through
just because they shoot the ball, to go with that defense and
rebound, yeah, and I feel likethis year's Duke team is, you
know, from start to finish.
Rocky (16:45):
I think they've been the most athletic.
They got three or four guysthat are probably going to go in
the first round if they comeout, and I think they probably
will but I feel like theyhaven't seen.
I think, coach, the ACC to methis year was down right.
The SEC was the conference youknow this year.
So I think the ACC wasextremely down conference you
(17:07):
know this year.
So I think the ACC was wasextremely down.
But I don't think Duke has seenthe physicality that Houston's
going to get a bring on Saturdaynight.
Coach Pags (17:12):
Yeah, I don't think many people see that.
You know they they really likehow the game's officiated is
going to matter too a little bit, cause the team that plays like
Houston, you can call a foulevery time down the floor or you
cannot call much of anythingand it becomes really a physical
game.
I think if Houston turns thegame, the more physical the game
(17:37):
becomes.
I think Duke can deal with that, but I think that favors a
looser whistle.
I think will favor Houston alittle bit.
The other thing that favorsHouston a little bit is this
game is a little bit of thethrowback we talked about.
Houston's a very experiencedteam, probably the most
experienced of the four teams,whereas Duke might be the least
experienced of the four teamsbut the most talented.
(17:58):
So you know, it's kind of at adifferent level it's what we
talked about earlier where youknow tournaments and days going
by where you'd have the teamwith a little bit more
experience against a team with alittle bit more talent,
sometimes experience enough toget you over the hump when you
got really good players.
That Houston does.
Rocky (18:15):
So, coach, how do you defend if you're Calvin Sampson?
I mean, how do you defend a kidlike Cooper Flagg, who can beat
you inside, can beat yououtside, he can beat you inside,
he can beat you outside, he canbeat you off the dribble.
What do they have to do tocontain him and let somebody
else beat you?
Coach Pags (18:28):
Yeah, I would expect them to be super physical with
him, not let him get to hisspots comfortably.
Again, how it's officiated isgoing to matter a little bit.
I don't know if they may runtwo guys at him to make him give
the ball up, but that's adangerous thing against a team
as talented as Duke.
I mean, he's a willing passerand a good playmaker for other
(18:49):
guys, but I think the biggestthing they'll do is really
contest him physically for everyinch on the floor.
I think they'll be really asphysical as the law allows in
that game.
Rocky (19:04):
Pegs, when you look at this Duke team, we mentioned
obviously Cooper Flagg, theheadline, and you got Canepo.
You got a lot of guys on thisteam, as I'm talking about, and,
coach, I think you hit it righton the spot.
It depends on how theyofficiate this thing, but I
think one thing that this Duketeam has proved to me is they
didn't need flag of the ACCtournament.
Again, the ACC was down but youstill got to get through and
(19:25):
win games.
You got to find ways to digdeep.
So I mean Pags, this Duke teamto me proved that, even if
flag's not on his A game andlet's be real, against Alabama
he wasn't, but I think he stillscored 16.
He didn't get his 25-30,.
But do they need the A Cooperflag or can they get by with a,
with a b cooper flag?
Coach Pasiak (19:46):
well, I think they got enough guys.
If any team can do it withouttheir star player, it's due
because they got enough guysaround them.
Um, but I do think it iscertainly going to help to have
them.
You know, have the, the, the astar cooper flag.
I think what coach was saying.
He hit it right on the head.
I think the key for for houstonis to make Cooper Flagg
uncomfortable, because CooperFlagg I mean, if they take him
(20:08):
out of the game, he's the typeof player that he's going to
find other ways to get histeammates involved.
He's not one of those playersthat if you shut him down, you
know he might not score all thepoints but he'll find other ways
to get his teammates involved.
So I don't think, I don't thinkyou can you can take him out of
the game completely, but I dothink you know it's.
(20:28):
If you take him out of the gameand he's not, he's the B, the B
Cooper flag then Houston'sgoing to have a heck of a chance
to win this game.
But if Cooper flag is on his Agame, I think it's going to be a
struggle for Houston.
But I do think that Duke canstill get by with this B game.
Rocky (20:51):
So this was the first time since 2008, and I had to
look to see what teams were inand it was Kansas, ucla, memphis
, north Carolina.
I think that was the year CoachKansas beat Memphis when John
Calipari was there, when allfour one seeds were in the final
four.
We've been talking a little bitabout it over the last two
(21:11):
weeks.
You know America loves theCinderella.
There's no 12 seed.
That's still in it.
There's no 10 seed and I wastrying to go back because we've
talked a lot about collegefootball over the years and I
think this tournament, the 18playoff you know we're debating
on teams nine and 10 who didn'tget into the 18 playoff, but I
(21:33):
think, at the end of the day,when you look at this final four
, I think the four best teamsare left.
I think these have been theteams coach I think you hit it
on the spot earlier from startto finish have been the best all
year.
So here's the question I wantto ask you guys.
Coach Pasiak (21:54):
Did the committee get this thing right or was it
just luck how this thing playedout?
Well, I think there's always alittle bit of luck involved.
I mean right, I think.
I mean you can see, I mean Ithink they seeded them right.
I think they gave the one seedsto the top four teams in the
country 's.
That's what the committee triesto do every year.
I mean, once in a while theythere's a miss, um, but when you
see the top, they see the topfour teams in the country.
They got it right with theseating, I think, um, but then
it's got to play out.
(22:15):
I mean, you know, because it'ssuch a long tournament, um, you
know anything can happen.
You know anything can happenand, uh, it's, it's a long track
.
I mean it's a long trek to getto the Final Four, to get to the
championship game.
So all you need is a team toget hot at the right time or a
team to get cold at the righttime.
So I do think they got it right.
But I also think there's alittle bit of luck involved
(22:36):
sometimes with the draws andjust what teams get hot in your
bracket.
But I do think they got theseeding right this year.
Rocky (22:44):
Coach.
What do you think?
Coach Pags (22:45):
Yeah, I mean, I think especially the top Cs.
I think it was pretty easyhonestly for the committee.
You know it's clearly the fourbest teams, I think you know,
and one of the reasons peoplehave been complaining a little
bit about the tournament is likewhat makes the NCAA tournament
kind of special is like it'sdesigned to trip up the best
(23:07):
teams.
I guess the way I would put itit's a one-and-done format and
especially each weekend you onlygot a one-day turnaround to
prepare for your second game ofthe weekend.
So, in a sense, what createsMarch Madness magic, I guess, is
the potential to trip up thebest team.
(23:28):
I think, if you're looking forversus, like the NBA playoffs,
where it's a seven game seriesand it really identifies the
best team and crowns themchampion at the end of the day,
I think the difference this yearis the separation, you know,
from the top of the bracket tothe bottom of the bracket.
You know that's why we sawpower conferences teams and
that's why, and um, I think Iread something where the four
(23:51):
teams in the finals this yearthere's only been six other
teams total in the history ofchempom with as high of
efficiency ratings as these fourteams this year.
So the separation between thoseteams and and the rest of the
pack is is a lot more than ittypically would be.
Rocky (24:08):
Yeah, and I think you know again we've said this is, I
think, the days of, like, theValparaiso kids that are staying
for four years and you know, bythe time those kids are juniors
and seniors, you know they canmake a run in the NCAA
tournament and really, when youlook at this whole tournament,
it's been chalk round one, roundtwo all the way through to the
final four.
I know we talked a little bitabout this last week, but do we
(24:30):
think this is the norm now?
Going forward with the NIL, thetransfer portal, and how
coaches now can come in and flipa roster and it's like the
mid-majors now are just astepping stone to the power four
job, do you think going forward, the NCAA tournament coaches
this is what we're going to seenow a lot of chalk really feels
that way.
Coach Pags (24:49):
You know, really, really, you know, the one thing
that'll be interesting is thisthis settlement with the house
case that's coming up, um, thisspring, where the schools will
have 20 and a half million tothat they can pay directly to
athletes, basically, um, thatcould be a really good thing for
a conference like the Big East,because the power for most of
(25:10):
that money is going to football.
What doesn't go to football isgoing to basketball, and what
doesn't go to football orbasketball there'll be some
crumbs left for the other sports.
So I think that a conferencelike the Big East or a school
like Gonzaga or St Mary's, likea traditional basketball power
that doesn't have money investedin big-time football, if they
(25:31):
choose to pour most of thatmoney into basketball, that
could help equalize the field.
But that said, like you'restill not going to get the NIL
money at some of those schools,at the Villanovas or the St
Johns that you get at Alabama orMichigan.
So the NIL is still going to bea factor, but I do think, as the
money increases, we're going tosee more and more of what we
(25:52):
saw this year.
Coach Pasiak (25:53):
Yeah, I agree, I think you're going to start
seeing the separation of the bigboys versus the not-so-big boys
.
But I also think the one thingthat is maybe a positive of this
whole thing is you're going tosee teams who can get better
real quick, right, you're goingto see a lot of teams who maybe
this year are not very good.
They go all in and they theyget a bunch of money uh, nil
(26:15):
money, like it's.
Like I said, it's not afootball school.
They pour all that money intothe program and they can be good
the next year.
So you know, I don't thinkthere could be situations where,
you know, one year you're downand out and the next year you
got five new guys coming in asstarters.
I mean, we saw it this weekwith some.
You know, if you've beenwatching the comings and goings,
I mean some teams.
(26:35):
There was one team that we weretalking about that they lost
everybody.
They lost all their players.
Some guys graduated and thenthe other guys just transferred
out.
I mean even syracuse, locally,look, I mean they're, they're
down to two guys now.
Um, you know, and they're,they're basically starting over.
I mean they got, they got agood freshman class coming in
next year, but uh, or this year,we recall, but, um, again, it's
(26:56):
a chance for you know, can they?
Can they hit the transferportal hard and bring in some
guys to put, put somethingaround them?
Um, and they can be good nextyear, as soon as next year, if
they get the right guys.
Rocky (27:07):
Coach, you make a good point you were mentioning.
You know I want to take BuzzWilliams for an example here,
who just left Texas A&M now togo to Maryland.
And Buzz has a history ofstaying at a school for three,
four years and then bouncing.
But the people we're talkingtoday on sports radio with Texas
A&M, the money all goingbasically to the football
(27:28):
program.
You know these basketball guysdon't like that.
They want to go somewhere thatthey can invest in the
basketball program and you knowI was saying last week like a
school like Texas A&M inbasketball.
I think if you were to ask thefans, the athletic department,
and say, were people happy withthe year A&M had?
And they were competitive, theymade a little bit of run right,
(27:49):
I think they won one, a couplegames, I think they got to the
second weekend.
That I think that's okay forthose schools.
But you think that's one of thereasons why you're seeing some
of these coaches and I'm justusing him as an example coach
that he leaves there and goes toMaryland because of the
football school and the moneythat goes into the football
program.
Coach Pags (28:06):
I'm sure that plays into it.
I mean, willard left Marylandbecause he wasn't happy with
Maryland's commitment tobasketball and what they were
willing to invest.
So you know, I think Marylandhas been more of a basketball
school like the football has notreally competed at a national
level, of a basketball schoollike that football has not
(28:28):
really competed at a nationallevel.
So, you know, buzz, you know,maybe feels like he's got more
of a more of an equal playingfield with at Maryland in terms
of where they prioritizebasketball versus football.
But, like I said, you know,willard just left.
So and on the way out the doorhe was complaining about their
support of basketball.
You know, for a month before heleft, complaining about their
support of basketball, you know,for a month before he left, so
(28:49):
you know and the money in thecoaching contracts.
That drives a lot of it too.
So but I think you know coachesare really going to look at
that going forward, how schoolsare going to spend their money
when this especially when it's20 and a half million that the
schools have direct control overcomes into play.
Coach Pasiak (29:07):
You're hearing grumblings already with Nate Ota
at Alabama.
I mean, obviously Alabama is afootball school right, but
you've been hearing somegrumblings about whether or not
he's happy there.
I don't know if it's justbecause he's trying to get a
bigger contract out of Alabamaor obviously we know Alabama all
the money is football right,but he went there and he built a
great program in Alabama, soyou'd think that he would want
(29:27):
to be there long-term to makethat.
You know it's never going to bea basketball school, but he's
got a heck of a basketball teamthere.
But you're starting to hearsome grumblings about whether he
wants to stay there or headelsewhere.
Rocky (29:40):
So let me ask you guys this question.
There's been some debate toothis week on who the player of
the year is, and right now it'sCooper Flagg and the broom kid
from Auburn, jeff Goodman, wasgetting kind of hammered on
radio because he was sayingco-players of the year with both
of them and some of the guyswere saying Cooper Flagg by far
has been the best player allyear.
And I was kind of going back tothe Heisman Trophy thing and I
(30:02):
thought Travis Hunter shouldhave won it because I said he
was the best player in thecountry.
He might not have been the bestreceiver.
You can argue whatever you wantto how you want to debate it,
but I say, if you take somebodyoff the team, how would they be?
If you take the genti kid offof Boise State, I'm not sure how
good Boise State would havebeen.
You take, you know, hunter offof Colorado.
I'm not, but it's like you takeFlagg off of Duke.
(30:23):
They still got through to theACC.
I still would say Cooper Flaggis the best player in the
country from a talent standpoint.
Would you guys agree, coach?
Do you think he gets the awardat the end of the year?
Coach Pags (30:34):
I mean, I think he should.
I think he's the best playerand he's going to be the number
one pick in the NBA draft To me.
As good as Bruin has been andsome other guys have been, I
think Flagg is clear-cut numberone player in the country.
Coach Pasiak (30:52):
I agree, I think he's the best player in the
country, but no doubt and Ithink he gets it hands down I
think the Broome kid is a closesecond, but I don't think he's
done enough like Flagg has done.
I mean, yes, duke's got otherguys there, but it's been all
about Cooper Flagg all year.
Rocky (31:11):
Have you guys been watching any of the girls' games
?
You guys got a favorite for thewomen's game Coach.
Who do you like?
Coach Pags (31:19):
Haven't watched a ton of the girls' tournament at
all.
Can't bet against UConn though.
You know Oriana in thatsituation and you know it's been
close to chalk in thattournament too, which is no
surprise.
On the women's side, you knowthe women tend to be closer to
chalk because the gap betweenthe best and the worst teams is
100 times what it is in men'sbasketball.
(31:40):
But you know I go with UConnthere.
Rocky (31:42):
So Scott Van Pelt last night I think it was last night,
yeah, because the girls playedlast night After the Connecticut
game.
They were interviewing GinoAuriemma on ESPN and Van Pelt
said you know, coach, you'regoing to go, you know, for the
underdog UConn team.
And Auriemma was like the whathe goes.
I don't think I've been calledan underdog in 20-something
(32:03):
years.
And again, of course, paigeBecker.
I love Paige.
I'm hoping that she wins thisthing.
But the girls' games have allbeen great games.
I mean it's been chalk.
I mean you've got SouthCarolina on one side against
Texas, who's been good all year.
You've got Geno, the only twoseed to get through, which you
know I see two seed.
You're like they're really nota two seed, they're really a one
(32:25):
seed.
They kind of caught a breakwith Juju Watkins going down for
USC because people wanted tosee Paige against Juju.
I'm with you, coach.
I love Gino, I love Paige.
I'm hoping Connecticut can getit done.
Here's a crazy stat.
As they said, if Paige Beckersdoesn't win the national
championship, she'll be one ofthe only all-time greats at
Connecticut to go to four finalfours and never win a national
(32:50):
championship, which I think iscrazy, that is crazy.
Who do you like Pegs?
Coach Pasiak (32:54):
I like UConn too.
I mean I was sad to see Jujuget hurt.
I was watching that game alittle bit.
I watched that game a littlebit.
I watched a little bit of theUConn game and then I was
watching TCU with Haley.
I like Haley Van Lith, I thinkshe's a great player and I was
watching her a little bit butbit.
But I, I that's besides thoseteams.
I don't really know uh muchabout the other ones, but I I
(33:15):
can't, I can't go against genioariana too.
He's just so dominant.
Um, but I think other schools,I mean other schools have
finally caught up to him.
I mean, for the three years itwas, it was you kind of nobody
else.
Um, I I think you've seen uhthe other teams catch up to to
them, um, but I think they're.
It's going to be hard to beathim in this tournament, I think,
with these last four teamsremaining.
Rocky (33:37):
Coach real fast.
I want to go back to Tom Izzois another one of my favorite
coaches to watch.
Coach you always see theemotions on his sleeves in the
press conferences with the kids.
I was pulling for him really tobeat Auburn.
I know him and Bruce Pearl aregood friends but some people
(33:58):
think that maybe Izzo's got oneor two years left.
What's your thoughts on coachIzzo?
Coach Pags (34:03):
I don't know, just as an observer.
I kind of see him as being moreout of the kind of from the
world of I don't know Krzyzewski, williams, boeheim, laranega,
bennett, those kind of guys.
I see him as being more thatmold of a coach which would tell
(34:26):
me he probably doesn't have awhole lot longer to go, because
I don't know what his thoughtsare on the current landscape.
I think that's what's drivenmost of those guys out of
coaching is like the you knowthe change in the game with the
portal and the NIL and the yearto year and everything versus.
I think guys like Patino andCalipari maybe, are wired to
(34:48):
navigate that space a littlemore.
So you know, Izzo comes acrossas, like you know, being kind of
young at heart and still havinggood energy, but it wouldn't
shock me to see him go the waylike.
He reminds me a little bit ofSaban in the football world and
you know Saban like it felt likehe had a lot of, you know, a
(35:09):
lot of gas still in the tank,but he just wasn't, didn't like
where college sports was headed,the landscape and and whatnot,
and it wouldn't surprise me tosee Izzo go down that path yeah,
I've seen some stuff on Izzolately and basically what I've,
what I've been hearing, is thatobviously we know that he's old
school, he does and he does ithis way and he he's not willing.
Coach Pasiak (35:29):
What I've been hearing is that he's not really
willing to to go down thislandscape of the new uh, the new
basketball with nil andeverything.
He's kind of doing it, doing itthe same way.
He's always done it.
From what I've been hearing, um, and I think if he keeps doing
that, I don't know how long he'sgonna be able to last to keep
doing that.
I think that's it.
I think he's gonna want to keepdoing it that way.
I don't see him really changinginto this new, new way.
(35:51):
Um, I think he's kind of stuckin his old ways and he's going
to stick to that.
But eventually I think it'sgoing to run out where he's not
going to be able to compete.
I mean, as long as he's stilldoing well and he's in Elite
Eights, I think they'll keep himas long as he wants to stay.
But I don't see him if hedoesn't change.
I don't see him ever breakinginto a Final Four, winning an
(36:18):
international title again if hecontinues to not get into the
whole NAL and really dive inlike everybody else has.
Rocky (36:21):
Yeah, and something was different this year through the
NCAA tournament, when you seethe emotions with Izzo on the
floor, with his guy I mean he'salways like that anyways.
But I thought there wassomething different this year,
even in some of his pressconferences when they were
asking him about the portal andyou know when it opens and you
know just some of his responses.
I wouldn't be surprised if hegoes one more year and kind of
(36:43):
goes off.
I think he really wanted a shotto get to one more Final Four.
I think he sees that windowCoach.
I think it was a good referenceto say Nick Saban, because I
would probably say the samething.
But I just wanted to see whatyour guys' thoughts were on Izzo
.
So, all right, well, let's pickthese two games, let's see who
you guys like.
And I'm going to tell you I'mgoing to stick with my picks for
(37:04):
the national championship.
But I'm really torn with thesecond game here.
But we'll start with the firstgame.
The 6-0-9 tip.
Right now, florida is minus twoand a half to Auburn Pags.
I'll start with you on this one.
Who do you like?
Coach Pasiak (37:19):
I like Florida in this game.
I think they have too much.
I mean I would love.
To me Auburn is like you knowwe talk about there's no
Cinderella.
To me Auburn is the Cinderella.
I mean there's no Cinderellaleft in this tournament.
But to me Auburn is thatCinderella because they kind of
play like their coach.
I mean he's fiery, the team isfiery, and if anybody can pull
(37:42):
it off, I think they can do it.
But I just think it's going tobe a close game.
But I think towards the endFlorida is going to pull away.
So I like Florida in this game.
Rocky (37:54):
Coach.
What do you like?
Coach Pags (37:55):
Yeah, I like Florida too.
I think you know Auburn, Ithink has the puncher's chance,
especially if Broome does hisbest, danny Manning, and puts
the team on his back, you know.
But I think Florida's depth inthe end, you know I have to lean
towards them.
Wouldn't shock me if Auburn won.
But I think Florida, you knowFlorida, all odds are that they
(38:15):
come through that game.
Rocky (38:17):
Well, I had Florida from day one in the national
championships.
I'm going to stick with Florida, but, coach, I'm with you.
I wouldn't be surprised.
I just think too many peopleare counting Auburn out of this
game and not giving them achance to win this game, and I
think that's what Bruce Pearllikes.
I think Pearl likes being theunderdog in this game and I
think that's what Bruce Pearllikes.
I think Pearl likes being theunderdog in this game.
And Florida's been on the ropes.
But again, a kid like WalterClayton Jr, who's been fantastic
(38:41):
down the stretch, I think thisFlorida team's been tested.
I think they're the deeper team.
We'll see how healthy Broom isIf he can stay healthy, stay on
the floor.
But I'm with you guys.
I'm going to take Florida andthe gambling guy that I am.
I'm going to take Florida andthe gambling guy that I am.
I'm going to take Floridalaying the two and a half in
that game.
This is the game I'm reallytorn on because I have Duke and
(39:01):
Florida playing for the nationalchampionship in my bracket.
But I am really torn on thisgame because I think Houston's
got a really good shot to beatDuke.
Coach, I'll start with you.
Who do you like?
Coach Pags (39:11):
I got Duke here.
You know.
Know, when in doubt, go withthe best player.
You know, I'd be shocked if Iwouldn't be shocked like I.
I think duke's the better teamand, um, you know we talked
about houston shooting it well.
I mean, I think they have toshoot it well, but I think duke
makes you not shoot it well, um,you know.
(39:31):
So I, I, and at the end of theday, like I said, you know, if
you're in doubt, go with thebest player pegs you want duke.
Coach Pasiak (39:39):
Yeah, I agree, I I don't think.
I don't think this game isgoing to be as close as as some
maybe some people are saying.
Um, it's weird, you know, likecoach said, you know it would
shock me, but it wouldn't shockme.
I think houston can definitelypull it off, um it, but it would
shock me, but, but it alsowouldn't shock me.
But I think Duke is just toopowerful.
They got too much.
So I don't think it's going tobe as close as a lot of people
(40:00):
are maybe saying.
With this game I think Dukewins easily.
Rocky (40:05):
So I'm not a Duke guy, but when these brackets came out
, I didn't even look at thebrackets.
Coach, I'm with you because Isaid Duke has the best player in
the country, so I literally putDuke winning it all from day
one, without even seeing thesebrackets.
I just think that even Houston,as tough as they are, I think
Houston could shut somebody down.
Maybe they hold flag to 15points or so, but I think Duke's
(40:28):
got too many weapons thatthey'll throw at Houston and I
really think that Duke'sswitching all the ball screens
and the athleticism that theypossess.
I don't think Houston has seena team like Duke all year, but I
also don't think Duke has seena team as physical, as we talked
about earlier, that they'regoing to see pegs.
I don't think Duke runs awaywith this game.
I think this is like a one-twopossession game with a minute to
(40:51):
go, and what coach is going todo there?
Make the adjustments late inthis game.
I think if Houston keeps thisthing close, this might be
Calvin Sampson's best team thathe's had since taking over at
Houston.
And coach, you hit it on thespot earlier this is the best
shooting team he's had to goalong with the best defensive
team that he's had.
(41:11):
So I think it's going to becloser.
I'm going to stay my pick.
I like Duke to march on andplay Monday night.
So we all got Duke and Floridaguys.
So I might as well ask you guyswho's cutting the nuts down?
Pags, I'll start with you thistime.
Coach Pasiak (41:24):
That's tough, you know.
I have.
I had Florida in all mybrackets winning it.
I had Florida and Duke, but nowI'm starting to.
If I can change my bracket, Iwould.
I would pick Duke over Florida,but what a battle that's going
to be.
I have no idea who to pick inthat.
Really, I think both teams areso well matched, they're both so
big and they both have.
They're both loaded with talent.
(41:45):
So when they match up, I mean Ithink it'll be a phenomenal
game, maybe come down to lastpossession.
But my heart says Duke.
But again, I think game Maybecome down to last possession.
Rocky (41:59):
My heart says Duke but again I think it could be a
toss-up.
I don't know.
I just had to look at my YahooFantasy bracket to see what I
predicted the score.
So I'll give you mine.
In a second Coach, you've gotto be riding Cooper Flag in the
Blue Devils, right.
Coach Pags (42:10):
You're riding one of them, yep, go with the best
player.
I agree I got him too.
Rocky (42:15):
I had an 86-82 Duke in the final game and you know I
don't know Again, I'm not a hugeDuke guy.
But you know I got to give somecredit to John Shire because
filling in for Coach K, fillingin for any of these legends,
hasn't really worked out wellreally in any sport but Hasn't
really worked out well really inany sport.
But, man, coach, you've got totip your hat to John Shire and
the job that he's been doing,continuing to recruit at a high
(42:39):
level.
Coach Pags (42:40):
Yeah, I mean he has really, like you said, he's
bucked the trend a little bit,because usually you know you
want to be the guy who follows,the guy who follows the legend.
Usually the guy that comes rightafter the legend.
It's tough sledding becausepeople are, you know, people are
expecting so much of you.
You know the other thing withShire, like he's the only guy of
(43:03):
the four that doesn't havebaggage, you know, it's true,
you know, it's really.
I find it really fascinatinghow Samson and Pearl have kind
of rehabilitated their careersand their images after some of
the trouble they got into withthe NCAA years ago.
And then, you know, golden hada little bit of off-court issue
recently too.
But Shire has been, you knowhe's proven to be, like you know
(43:24):
, the ideal successor to Kay, atleast so far.
Rocky (43:28):
Yeah, that's a good point .
I feel like all those coachesCoach you mentioned have all had
second and third chances, andhere they are, some in the final
four and some on to Chris Beard, another one who?
And then what's his name?
The coach that's?
I'm drawing a blank here.
That's going to Texas, to theleft, xavier.
Oh, you guys got to give me aname I'm drawing a blank here.
(43:50):
Yes, Sean Miller?
Yep, he was another guy thatgot himself in a little bit of
trouble, and here he comes outagain smelling like a rose, a
big payday going to Texas.
So these guys seem to find waysto get away with things, right,
coach?
Coach Pasiak (44:02):
People forget quickly, right Once you start
winning again.
People forget the past.
Coach Pags (44:07):
Well, you know, it's like, as long as your talent or
your production exceeds yourindiscretion, you've always got
a job right, whether you're acoach or an athlete.
Rocky (44:17):
Yeah very true, very true .
Well, listen guys, I appreciateit.
I appreciate you guys talkingsome hoops.
We're all riding with Duke.
We'll see how it pans out, butI think the Duke-Houston game I
think to me the winner of thatgame, I think wins it all.
But we'll see what happens.
But, coach, listen, Iappreciate you taking the time
always and I love talking on onsports watch and we'll do it
(44:38):
again soon.
Coach Pags (44:39):
Sounds great.
Always great to talk to youguys.
Rocky (44:41):
Awesome.
Thanks, coach.
Pags I'll ask you to see what'sgoing on the weekend for sports
watch, but good to have you onbuddy.
Coach Pasiak (44:48):
Yeah, always appreciate.
It, All right guys have a goodweek.
Rocky (44:51):
Enjoy the weekend.
So that was great.
I want to thank Coach Paggs andCoach Pajak for coming on to
talk some Final Four with mehere tonight.
On the Rock Pile Some big newscoming up.
Stay tuned.
Over the next week or so I'llintroduce the guest for the
Beyond the Game podcast, whichis going to be fantastic.
(45:12):
It's something different that Ihaven't done, so stay tuned for
that.
Have a great weekend.
Watching some collegebasketball Again should be two
really good games on Saturdaynight.
So, on behalf of the Rockpilehere tonight, enjoy the weekend
everybody.
We'll see you again soon.
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