We all love a good story, don’t we? It’s a way to connect as human beings and make emotional bonds. In this Feature Friday episode of the ROI Online Podcast, Steve talks with Rob Stenberg, Story Seeker and author about the importance of storytelling, all the benefits it can bring to your business, and how to do it right.
Rob is a keynote speaker, author, coach, and Story Seeker with more than 30 years of experience. He is the owner of Stenberg & Associates Sales & Leadership Academy–where sales and leadership development combine with human connection training to provide keynote speeches, workshops, and events–and co-founder of STORYseekers. He loves working with sales and marketing teams to build customer hero stories that establish trust and rapport with prospects in a few minutes.
There are so many arguments for storytelling, but the most convincing one is that storytelling helps you make an emotional connection. Because people make decisions emotionally and justify them logically, if you don't establish an emotional connection with potential customers they're less likely to buy from you, which means there's a huge opportunity cost of not using stories in your marketing!
Among other things, Rob and Steve discussed:
- Robs’ backstory
- The myths of salespeople
- The process of story tending and why is it so useful
- What storytelling is exactly
- Why storytelling is so important
- How to be a good storyteller
- The importance of brand storytelling
- The benefits of internal storytelling
You can learn more about Rob here:
Follow Rob on LinkedIn
Learn more about STORYseekers here:
https://www.customerheroselling.com/
Read the books mentioned in this podcast:
The Golden Toilet by Steve Brown
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Rob Stenberg (00:04):
I have a five step sales process. And my clients
have a seven step buyingprocess. I'm already out of
alignment with our client. Sothat's one of the things that we
we talked about it story seekersis aligned with your buying
process. And the stories thatyou can tell all the way along
there by process as to movingthat vibe process along. So in
(00:26):
the beginning, I'm going to tella customer hero story where I'm
going to talk to them about apeer that we've worked with,
that have gotten the resultsthey were looking for. So that
gives their pure curiosity. AndI think pure envy is something
that is a very powerful buyingmotive for for people. They
(00:47):
don't want to be outdone bytheir peers.
Steve Brown (00:49):
Hi, everybody.
Welcome to the ROI onlinepodcast where we believe you,
the courageous entrepreneurs ofour day, are the invisible
heroes of our economy. You notonly improve our world with your
ideas, your grit and yourpassion, but you make our world
better. I'm Steve Brown. Andthis is the place where we have
great conversations with winnersjust like you while we laugh and
(01:12):
learn together.
Rob zinberg Welcome to the ROIonline podcast.
Unknown (01:26):
Thank you very much, Steve, it is great to be here.
I'm excited for this.
Steve Brown (01:30):
Look, this is one of my favorite topics, or the
actually we're taking, we'remaking a contraction, we're
taking two of my favoritetopics. And we're merging them
together. And it's calledstorytelling and sales. And
guess what? You're an expert inboth of those. And you have a
company called story seekerscalm. Story seekers.us got us
(01:54):
even better. It is not us. Yes.
So why why did you plant yourflag there? Rob?
Unknown (02:02):
You know, one of the things that story is, it's part
of my past, it's with the 25plus years, I've been in sales.
And it took me a long time tounderstand why I was successful
in sales. There was a lot oftrial and error, a lot of
crashing and burning a lot ofmissed opportunities and missed
sales over the years, untilabout nine years ago, when a
(02:26):
friend of mine gave me a bookthat decoded in my mind as to
why I was successful in sales.
Steve Brown (02:33):
What book was that?
Unknown (02:35):
It's called what great salespeople do by Mike Bosworth.
I know a great book. It talksabout how it talks about
storytelling, obviously, and howto construct a great story and
how you can find, create andshare great stories. And when I
read that book, a friend of minewho's a now retired University
(02:56):
sales and marketing professor,he gave me the book, he said,
I'd like you to read this bookand just tell me what you think
about this book. And so I readthe book, we got back together
for lunch. And he said, What doyou think I said, I love this
book. I do 80 85% of what's inthis book, why wouldn't I love
this book? I do most of what'sin here? And he said, Well, let
(03:17):
me ask you a couple ofquestions. I said, Sure. He
said, Did you know that that'swhat you did? I said no. I had
no idea. He said, You're what wecall unconsciously competent.
And I said, Yeah, that wouldmake sense. He said, Could you
here's another question. Couldyou use it on demand? I said,
No, I just did it intuitively.
He said, Well, could you scaleit? Could you teach it? No, no,
(03:39):
I couldn't do any of thosethings. Before I read the book
and decoded what what was goingon and what I was doing in my
sales process, unbeknownst to meto be successful. And again,
like I said, over the years, itwas a lot of trial and error, a
lot of crash and burn law salesthat, you know, happened over
the years?
Steve Brown (04:02):
Well, I think that you're addressing something that
I think is a giant misconceptionin the world of business, and
that some salespeople just havethis natural ability to connect,
they just have this gift of gab.
And that's what makes them agreat salesperson. But it's not
true, is it?
Unknown (04:25):
Well, it really isn't.
I mean, there are some peoplewho do intuitively connect
better than others. There's noquestion about that. And I'm
fortunate, I think I'm one ofthose people. And I think that
helped me be successful insales. Early in my sales career,
though. We were told we beingsalespeople in all the training
that I had ever taken in saleswas you know, the first one of
the first steps in the salesprocess, sales processes, you
(04:48):
have to gain report, right, yougain report. Well, you raise
your hand you say well, how doyou do that? And of course the
trainer would say well, I don'tknow. You either can or you
can't. It's not something thatcan be taught. And what we know
now through neuroscience, andwith the brain imaging, and all
of the things that we can dowith science today is we can
(05:11):
teach it, you can teachconnection, which for sales
professionals is huge. It'sabsolutely huge when you can
teach connection, because we'veall heard of that 8020 rule,
right? 20% of the sales staffgenerating 80% of the sales
revenue, and vice presidents ofsales. absolutely hate to stack
(05:33):
rink their sales people and say,geez, if I got 20 salespeople
here, Hmm, what happens if Ilose the two or three, you know,
that are in that in that top20%? Obviously, a lot of things
can go wrong. But we can nowteach that. So, you know, one of
the things that I talked to VicePresidents of sales or sales
(05:56):
directors or sales managersabout is, Hey, you know, you've
got your top salespeople, that'sgreat. It's not broke, don't try
to fix it. However, how manysalespeople Do you have, that
are highly competent? They knowthe product line, they help
other salespeople where theycan. They're great with
(06:18):
customers, they have highcharacter, they're in early,
they stay late. They have a hardtime making their numbers. Oh,
my God, sales people like that?
Absolutely. I got sales. Thoseare the salespeople who don't
know how to connect intuitively,that can be taught how to
connect and make thatconnection. So that when they
(06:38):
get into that discovery,questioning phase of their
clients, their client is alreadysaying to themselves, hey, I
trust this person sitting acrossfrom me, they understand me,
they get me, and I'm going toanswer their questions freely.
And what happens right now isbecause they don't know how to
connect intuitively, they startasking those questions too soon.
(06:58):
And the cut, the client says,Hey, they don't verbalize this,
but they say to themselves, hey,I don't trust you enough right
now to answer those kinds ofquestions.
Steve Brown (07:08):
I think one of the things that you address really
well is most salespeople,they're sitting quietly, waiting
for their chance to pounce.
Okay, you, you made me think ofthis one thing. And now I'm
ready to I'm just dying to sayand give, take a break exam. I
know what you need. I'm gonnapounce. Right? But you're saying
(07:30):
just a minute,
Unknown (07:36):
slow down, slow down to go faster, right. And it's what
what I call artificial patients,you know, where the conversation
is going, you know what the endresult of the conversation is
going to be? If you go too soon,if you start talking too soon,
or offering suggestions oroffering solutions, too soon,
(07:59):
you'll blow the sale. When ifyou had the ability to show some
artificial patience, you'd getto this, you'd get to the end.
Can I tell you a quick story?
How how that really works?
Steve Brown (08:13):
Yes.
Unknown (08:15):
There was a gentleman who took one of our workshops,
it was a workshop we did in SanDiego. And the following week,
he got back in touch with us.
And he said, Hey, I just wantedyou to know that this stuff
works. And here's why. Duringthe workshop, we talked about
art of, you know, having thatartificial patients. And we talk
also about not having what wecall premature elaboration.
(08:39):
We're at a point where asalesperson will say, you know,
if you're the client, and you'retalking to me, Steve, and you
say, Hey, here's what my problemis. And here's my issue, and you
get halfway into your issue. AndI say, Steve, you know what, I
got a lot of clients who arewe're exactly in the same shoes
that you're in, I know exactlywhat you need to do. You need
(09:00):
our solution. And here's oursolution, and they pull out and
they start, you know, they startprescribing, right, they start
saying, here's what you need todo. That's premature
elaboration. For one, youhaven't gotten out your whole
story, right? You haven'tgotten. So now you haven't felt
like I get you, you haven't feltlike you've been heard. And
(09:20):
number two, who wants to be toldthat like, you're just like an
all or a lot of my clients, youdon't want to hear that you want
to hear that you're unique, thatyour problems are unique, that
your problems are, you know,specific to you maybe or you
know that at least the solutionI'm giving is specific to you.
(09:41):
And three and I think mostimportantly, you as a human
being do not like to be toldwhat you need to do. I and I say
this in our workshops all thetime as well. I'll say hey, how
many people in this room or howmany people in this Zoom Room in
these days have Have asignificant other, you know, you
have a romantic relationshipwith somebody, you know, most
(10:02):
the hands go up 80 90% of thehands go up Great, okay? Try
this on your partner, I in thenext day or so. Now in theory,
the person who loves you morethan anybody else in the world
and you go to them and you trythree or four, I need you need
to design and you can evenpreface it with honey, honey,
(10:23):
you need to do this, honey, youneed to do that. And let me know
how well it works out for you.
Right? If the person who lovesyou the most in this world is
going to put up with that, whywould your client so this
gentleman who called us back hesaid, Hey, I went out, I had
that problem. I was in a slump.
That's one of the reasons I tookyour workshop. And as soon as I
heard that, in the workshop, Iknew I was in my slump. And the
(10:46):
following day, the fall, theworkshop ended on a Thursday, I
went on three sales calls onFriday. And in all three sales
calls, I literally, he said Iliterally had to bite my tongue.
Because I knew that my productand service could take care of
the problem. But I just had toshow that artificial patience. I
(11:08):
literally bit my tongue on allthree calls. I made all three
sales. And I there's no way Imake those sales without going
to your workshop and gettinghaving it pointed out to me I
wanted to be Superman, I wantedto be the one riding in on the
white horse and rescuing theclient, when I just needed to
sit back and let them figure outfor themselves what their
(11:30):
solution was. See, they own thesolution, you as the salesperson
don't own the solution. If theclient has a problem, the client
owns the solution. Don't try tobe the here.
Steve Brown (11:44):
Wow. So why do you call it artificial patients?
Unknown (11:49):
Well, because you know where the client where the
client is going to go. If you'reif you have enough expertise
within your, within yourmarketplace in the products and
the services that you sell, youcan see where the conversation
is going to you have talked to1012 1518 dozens of people who
have had a similar situation andyou know that your product and
(12:13):
service is going to take care ofthat problem. However, one thing
you want to remember is thatpeople are best convinced by
reasons they themselvesdiscovered. So I've got to show
the patients that artificialpatience to let the client
figure out for themselves thatmy solution and my product and
(12:36):
service is going to be thesolution that they're looking
for. If I just simply come outand blurt Well, hey, here's my
product, here's my service,it'll take care of it for you,
then they haven't discoveredthat yet. You're probably
familiar with SPIN Selling rightby Neil Rackham. He found back
in the night, late 90, I thinkwas 1979 that he did a study
(12:57):
with Xerox, where the Xeroxwould hire new sales team every
graduation right. So two orthree times a year, they're
going after masters levelcollege graduates, they bring in
a college class of graduatesthat get them into the sales
sales team for 18 months, theirsales would climb, climb, climb,
(13:22):
climb, at 18 months, they'dcrash and burn, they their
performance would go down andthen their morale would go down
soon after that. And every classthey brought in, it was 18
months, 18 months, he said youcould set your watch by it.
Well, that's why they broughthim in is to take a look and try
to figure out why this crash washappening at 18 months. And what
(13:44):
he found out was that at 18months, the sales people pretty
much had what you'd callsolution expertise, right?
they'd seen every permutation ofissue or problem or challenge
that any of their clients aregoing to have. So if they saw
the problem at six months,they'd say, Hmm, wow, do you
(14:07):
mind if I go back and talk tothe people in the lab or talk to
people back at the office andsee if I can find a solution?
And I'll call you back thisafternoon? Of course, the client
would say, Sure, no problem.
Well, at 18 months, theywouldn't say, let me go back to
the office. They'd say, Oh, youcan stop right there. I know
exactly what you need. Here'swhat you need. And the ironic
(14:27):
thing was there such theirsolution, their product or
service would have taken care ofthe client's problem, it would
have cleaned it up for them. Butbecause they prematurely said
and didn't let the client getout their entire story and told
them what they needed to do.
They blew the sale. So that'swhy I called premature print, or
(14:51):
excuse me, I call it artificial.
Artificial patience is you knowwhere the network's gonna go,
you know what the end result isgoing to be. You just Have to
slow down and wait for theclient to catch up to you.
Steve Brown (15:04):
So I've really struggled. You know, I've had
I've been in sales most of mylife. And it really frustrated
me when you walk away. Theysaid, No. But everything was
aligned as why it would be aperfect Yes, everything was
logically, it's going to solvethe problem, save the money,
(15:26):
whatever it was. And yet theystill say no. And it really is
like, what, what did I misshere? And what I realized I was
missing, there was an internalchallenge that was resolved was,
for example, an internalchallenge might be that choosing
(15:47):
my solution posed a riskpolitically inside that
organization. If it fails, ifsomething goes wrong, they're
going to look bad. And I wasoblivious to that. So what did
they do? They avoided that risk,but it had nothing to do with
features and solutions.
Unknown (16:07):
Absolutely. I've got a friend of mine, who's another
sales trainer and, and very goodsalesperson over a number of
years. And she told me a storyabout how she was working with a
potential client. And shethought she had the perfect
solution for this gentlemanbecause he was working every
(16:28):
Christmas Day. So he would spendChristmas morning with his
family. And then he would haveto go in 11 o'clock noon, 11am
noon, go in and go into theoffice, then on Christmas Day,
right? So she she goes in withthis solution. It's an it's in
the IT market space, she's gotthe solution for him. Here it is
(16:52):
that you don't have to spendChristmas, you get to spend all
of Christmas Day with yourfamily. Here it is. It's all
mapped out. Like you said, it'sall logical. And he says no. No,
no. So she keeps trying to sellhim and so on and so forth. No,
(17:13):
no, no, no, no. And so shefinally he finally got to the
point where he said, You knowwhat, you're not going to sell
this to me. It's just not goingto happen. She said, Well, then
I guess I just need to know why.
He said, You know how I pay formy kids. Christmas presents,
how? By working Christmas day,every year, you take that away
from me. You take away my kidsChristmas presents? Well, that
(17:38):
was his internal. That was hisway of taking care of things and
taking care of his familybecause he got paid like triple
time or whatever on ChristmasDay. So that's why he did what
he did. And if she even thoughit would have saved the company
money, he's like, I can't givethat up. Because then I'm you're
taking money out of my pocket.
(18:01):
And there are many times I'vegotten many examples of
salespeople going in thinking,what they're proposing is great.
However, the internal strugglethat you're talking about with
people, you have to recognize ifsomething's there, you have to
look for it.
Steve Brown (18:18):
So you have a process. I love the name story
tending. But it's a processwhereby you can identify what
the internal struggle is.
Unknown (18:29):
Yeah, storytelling is something that, you know,
there's a as you know, there's alot of people out there teaching
storytelling, right for sales.
And I think the, you know,there's a lot of them telling
the the why story and what kindof stories to build. I don't
think there are a lot as to howto build those stories and how
to craft a great story. And thenwhen to tell that story.
Steve Brown (18:54):
So I think you're so I want to make sure I tee
this up good for our audience,right? We all hear storytelling,
and our default packaging ofthat is we must be good at
telling a story. But actuallythe secret is opposite.
Unknown (19:13):
You absolutely it and I say all the time, whereas
influence how do you what's thebest way to influence somebody?
Is it to is it to talk to them?
Or is it to listen to them? Andthe influences in the story
tending? And we don't just saystory listening, right? It's
story tending. You tend to agarden, you tend to a fire, you
(19:34):
tend to a child scraped knee.
You do it with care, you do itwith love, you do it with
attention, and that's how weteach you to listen to your
clients stories. So you hearwithout maybe without even being
said the internal struggle. It'sit's something that kind of gets
(19:58):
revealed in when they're tellingtheir story. And so to be able
to attend somebody's story isjust absolutely crucial.
Steve Brown (20:07):
So let's do a little exercise show us how you
tend to story. All right?
Unknown (20:13):
Well, with any story, there is four, great four
elements, Danny story, and thiscomes right out of Hollywood,
right? There's a setting,there's a complication, there's
the turning point. And thenthere's a resolution. So the
setting is, you know, the where,what, when weather conditions,
you know, just you can do asetting and very think of a
(20:34):
movie, think of any movie you'vebeen to any play, you've gone to
any book you've read, right?
There's the setting, then thinkof the complication, right? If
you're thinking of a movie, thatlast movie that you went and
saw, you know, there's there'sthat complication, that's where
most of the movie is spent is inthat complication. And then
there's the turning point of themovie, which is that aha moment,
(20:54):
the characters see a new way ofdoing things, and they get a
better result than what washappening in a complication. And
then the resolution is simplyhow things turned out long term.
So I, I'll tell you a quickstory about a business partner
of mine who was introducing meto somebody for the first time
(21:14):
over a zoom meeting. And thisperson worked in the financial
services industry. And so mybusiness partner knows this
person, and again, introducingme so I was meeting her for the
first time will resume. And somy business partner said, Your
name is Christie Christie, whydon't you tell rob your story?
Well, she started her story, shewent back quite a ways. She
(21:35):
probably talked for eight to 10minutes about her story. And so
my business partner said, Well,I'm going to do something here
that Rob doesn't know, I'm goingto do Christie. But Rob, I want
you to give Christie her storyback to her. And so I gave her
her story back to her in lessthan two minutes. Now, again,
she talked for eight to 10. AndI said, Christy, can I get you?
(21:56):
And she said, wow.
When's your next workshop? Iwant to learn how you How did
you do that? And I didn't evendid you take notes? I didn't
even see you take any notes. Didyou take notes? I said, No, I
didn't take any notes. She said,How did you do that? You didn't
miss anything in my story. Howdid you do that? Well, those
(22:20):
four elements of the story thatyou're used to craft a great
story are also the bestlistening framework tending
framework that I've ever workedwith. So if somebody is telling
me their story, as they'retelling that story, they'll
start out in the beginning,they'll start out in the
setting, they'll jump to Oh,what was part of their turning
(22:42):
point, then they'll go intowhat's going on today, then to
back to a complicated, they jumpall over the place. That's what
we do as human beings. Andthat's why I think storytelling
is also very, it's verydangerous, just to say, you know
what, you need to learn how totell great stories. Because if
we don't know how to craft them,we start telling stories that
are too long, too boring. We'veheard we've all had people tell
(23:05):
us stories, right? You're like,why is this person telling me
the story? They're 10 minutesin, I still don't know what the
heck they're talking about. Butif you use it in a listening
framework, and now I can, as Iwas listening to Christie, I was
taking each of those segmentsand anything that she said, and
in my mind, I was putting themin one of those four story
(23:28):
elements. So now when I tell herstory back to her, I tell it
back to her in an organizedmanner. And that's why she says,
Wow, How'd you do that? You justtold me I've had people say,
you've told me my story back tome better than I told it to you.
Because see, they weren'torganized with it. And I
organized it and regurgitatedit, if you will, back to them.
(23:51):
But the other thing they do iswow, this guy really listened to
me. Think about the last timeyou were really listened to you
were really tended, right? Sothat that story framework that
we teach is also a storylistening framework. That's,
it's it's better than anythingI've ever worked with.
Steve Brown (24:10):
Hey, I wanted to pause right here and tell you
about a book that you need toget today. It's the funniest
book on marketing. It's calledthe Golden toilet, stop flushing
your marketing budget into yourwebsite and build a system that
grows your business. And guesswho wrote it? That's right. I
wrote it. And I wrote it justfor you. Because I want to help
(24:32):
you get past the last hurdles ofsetting up your business and
getting it squared away. I wroteit so that you can avoid time
wasting time wasting money,wasting frustration, get the
book on Audible. You can get iton Kindle. You can get it on
Amazon, but get the book takeadvantage of the insights in
(24:54):
there. And let me know what youthink. And now back to this
Excellent episode. So you thinkabout the emotional reaction
that she had. that emotion iscoming from? Wow, he gets me. He
gets me and I feel safe.
Exactly.
Unknown (25:19):
And what happens to the trust level? When some when you
sit when you know that somebodygets you? What What, what do you
automatically almost do is if Iif this person gets me, they're
gonna get my trust because theyunderstand me they understand my
my challenges they and they can.
The one of the stories that wehelp people with is what we call
a customer hero story. Right? IfI'm going to talk to a vice
(25:42):
president of sales in the ITspace, I'm going to offer if I'm
talking to him, then the vicepresidents say can I tell you a
story about another, anothervice president of sales in it
that we've worked with, wherewe've been working together,
we've increased their sales 15%over the last three months,
who's going to say no to thatstory? Nobody, you just don't
(26:05):
sit we as human beings story ishardwired into us. We are story
seeking. And that's why the namestory seekers, we are story
seeking animals. I mean, we wantthe it's, if you think back to
the when you took history, andyou saw the pictures in your
(26:25):
history book of the cave wallsand all the paintings on the
cave walls. That wasstorytelling that was the
cavemen and the cave women alltelling stories about what was
going on in their world at thetime, there was story long
before the written word. Andeven before the spoken word,
that we were telling stories. Sowhen you offer somebody a story,
(26:46):
and we know this now throughneuroscience, what happens in
somebody's brains, it's liketelling a five year old kid once
upon a time, it's like openingup a book to a five year old kid
and say, once upon a time, hey,our brain say I'm safe. I don't
have to do anything, I canrelax. However, I better pay
attention. Because somethingimportant might be said that I
(27:08):
need to remember later on. Now,I want to repeat that because
it's really important. You thinkabout the situation you're in,
you're trying to influenceyou're trying and attempting to
gain trust with somebody to helpthem because that's why you're
there as a salesperson to helpthem. You're trying to influence
them and you're trying to gaintheir trust. And when you say to
them, can I share a quick storywith you about a peer of yours?
(27:31):
What happens in their brain isI'm safe. I don't have to do
anything, I can relax. But Ibetter pay attention because
something important might besaid that I need to remember
later. Can you think Steve havea better frame of mind to put
somebody in that you're tryingto influence? I can't. And so
that's the power of story.
Steve Brown (27:55):
So you're listening, or you're watching.
Matter of fact, if you'rewatching on YouTube, be sure to
like and subscribe. And ifyou're listening on verbal same
subscribe to our station. Butwe're having a fascinating
conversation with Rob stenberg.
He's from story seekers. Andhe's teaching us how to story
tend. So we think we need to begreat storytellers, we should
(28:18):
definitely know how to tell astory so that we can help
arrange someone else's story. SoRob, I get I've got these common
questions that always come up.
So I'm going to ask them, my askthese questions to you. And
we're just going to, we're goingto be fascinated by what your
(28:40):
answer is. Okay. Well, okay, sowhat is storytelling? Now? It
seems like a simple question,but it's not.
Unknown (28:52):
It does seem like a simple question. And it is not.
storytelling, to me, is anorganized, focused story that
you're telling to yourprospective client, with one
intention, and that's to getthem to tell you their story.
(29:14):
That's why your storystorytelling needs to be short,
depending on the situation,right? I mean, as trust
increases with your potentialclient, your timeframe to be
able to tell stories increases,right. So but in the beginning,
if I'm talking to a client forthe very first time, my story
needs to be short 60 to 90seconds to give to follow on
(29:37):
with the example of if I'mtalking to a vice president of
sales in it for the first time,and I offer Can I tell you a
story about another sales VP weworked with that story needs to
be short 60 to 90 seconds, 90seconds, absolute tops. So
storytelling means what isstorytelling, storytelling is
(29:58):
something that's focused withthe purpose and intent to get
your clients story.
Steve Brown (30:04):
Wow. Why is storytelling important?
Unknown (30:08):
Because it's a, it's how we connect as human beings.
You know, I think I think ofpeople because I've worked with
people with Asperger's, you knowwhat Asperger's is, and I just,
I have so much empathy for thembecause they have no way to
emotionally connect with people.
And that's why storytelling isso important. If you want to
(30:28):
make a great emotionalconnection with somebody, tell
them a story that's relevant tothem, that lets them also get
their story out of it lets themtell their story. Because that's
really what we want to do ashuman beings, right? When I hear
a story, I want to tell a storyas well, it triggers my brain
(30:49):
that, Oh, geez, this story isalso pertinent to this
discussion. And I want to tellit as well. But storytelling is
important, because you said itearlier, right? All the logic is
there, but somebody doesn't makea decision to buy from you.
That's because decisions aremade emotionally and not
logically, we make decisionsemotionally, we justify them
(31:09):
logically. And if we don't makethat emotional connection with
people, the odds of themdeciding to purchase from you
drop dramatically.
Steve Brown (31:20):
Well, how to be a good storyteller.
Unknown (31:25):
Practice, practice, practice, you've heard it in
real estate, right location,location. With storytelling,
practice, practice, practice ishow you become a good
storyteller. Know the situationthat you're in what what I call
situational awareness. Andpractice the stories that you're
going to tell practice them, Ican tell my story, my what I
(31:48):
call my who I am story, I cantell it in 60 seconds, I can
tell it in two minutes, I cantell it in five minutes, I can
tell it in 10 minutes, justdepends on how much detail I
want to put in there. Butpractice the stories that you're
telling. Write them out, getthat setting, get that
complication, get the turningpoint and get the resolution in
(32:11):
that story. Secondly, to be agreat storyteller. Remember one
thing, never tell a storywithout a point. And never make
a point without a story.
Steve Brown (32:23):
Wow. Thanks.
Excellent. So for a brand, whyis storytelling so important?
Unknown (32:32):
I think it's extremely important for brand because
again, you want to make thatimpact the brand wants to make
that emotional connection withtheir potential clients with the
people who buy from them. Andwho wants to become part of
their tribe even Right. I mean,if I'm, if I'm telling a story
as a brand, and it doesn'tresonate with somebody, that's
(32:53):
okay, maybe they're not myclient. So it lets you figure
out who your client is, who yourclient isn't. And it lets you
make that emotional connectionwith them. And if you want to
think about it, from a brandperspective, I think one of the
best brands that have made thatemotional connection and to do
that so well, that people eventattoo this brand on their
(33:17):
bodies. I mean, they permanentlytattoo the brand on their
bodies. And I'm think I think alot of people will know who I'm
talking about Harley Davidson,right. I mean, there's such an
emotional connection with thatbrand and their riders that, you
know, you go to some of themotorcycle rallies, and you see
all kinds of Harley Davidsontattoos. I mean, that's, that's
(33:39):
an emotional connection withyour client, right? And so
that's why it's important forbrand to have great stories so
that they can make that kind ofconnection.
Steve Brown (33:50):
You know, when you think about putting a tattoo on
you, you're making that a partof your identity. And so that
story helps you have thattattoo, you see yourself in that
story. That's why you're happyto put that brand on you.
Absolutely. Absolutely. Sointernal storytelling, what's
(34:14):
one benefit of internalsstorytelling?
Unknown (34:18):
You know, I think I think I when I think of that
question I think of the wordinternal and I think of internal
in two different ways oneinternal to me as the person and
internal to an organizationnumber two, so in internal to me
why I think it's so important isthe the stories that we tell
(34:41):
ourselves, we have to be verycareful with them. We have to be
careful with the stories we tellourselves especially as sales
professionals, and I I use theterm sales professionals, not
sales people, salesprofessionals, we tell ourselves
the stories of either we'rereally good where we Really bad.
We're, you know, we're not goodat prospecting, oh, we're not
(35:04):
good at closing Oh, we're notgood at we're not good at, we've
got to be careful about thoseinternal stories and change
those internal stories to morepositive Im statements. I am a
good storyteller, I am a goodsalesperson, I am a good sales
professional, I am a goodprospecting, I enjoy, put it on
the positive. So internally, asan individual, I think it's
(35:26):
extremely important the storieswe tell ourselves. There's
nothing that can help our psychemore than being positive and
giving ourselves some grace tofrom an internal standpoint,
from a corporation or firm. Andfrom an organizational
standpoint, there are so manyreasons to be good storytellers,
(35:47):
internally, to pass on theinformation from one generation
to the next inside anorganization and how things were
done, and how things should bedone. And just some of the
things that the company standsfor in the company story and why
the company started and what whythey did some of the things that
(36:08):
they did, I think ofNorthwestern Mutual. Have you
ever heard Northwestern Mutual'sfounder story?
Steve Brown (36:16):
I don't think so.
Unknown (36:17):
Northwestern Mutual, has got a great founder story,
they started back in the1870s 1880s. And two years after
they started, there was and theystarted in Wisconsin, a train
was going from two cities inWisconsin, and nine, there was a
train crash to nine people diedin the train crash, two of the
(36:39):
people were Northwestern Mutualpolicyholders. To pay off those
two policies, it was 30 $500 topay them both off. The only
problem was companies only twoyears old, they only had $2,000
in equity, so they ownersborrowed money to pay off. Now,
(37:02):
that's the kind of thing thatNorthwestern Mutual, if I'm a
Northwestern Mutual rep, I'mgonna say that's our, that's
where we, that's back all theway to the late 1800s. And you
can tell that story, but say,you know what, that's still the
way this company operates today,if you're a Northwestern Mutual
rep, that's a huge story tohave. So internally, it's
(37:23):
important to have, especiallyfor CEOs, when they're telling
their strategy story, when theywant to get buy in from the rest
of the employees in the company.
If they just simply come out andsay, here are the numbers,
here's what we're gonna do. Andlet's do it. Not real
motivational the that what'sgoing to happen is the employees
of that company are going tofill in the narrative
(37:45):
themselves, or if they don'thave enough information, because
we are story seeking animals,we're going to fill in those
gaps. And you've probably workedat places where that's happened.
But if the CEO has a greatstrategy story as to why that
company is going to take thesteps they're going to take, and
what it's going to look like forthe employees in each of those
(38:07):
departments. And this is why thestrategy is important. And this
is the future story of thecompany. This is where the
stories, this is where thecompany is going to end up three
to five years from now, muchmore motivational and
inspirational to the employeesof that company. And to get that
buy in from the employees tofollow where the CEO wants to
(38:27):
take the company, those internalstories are so so from an HR
standpoint, why should I as anemployee, you want to come on
with this company, if you're anHR professional, you want to
have stories as to talentacquisition, what's happened to
some of the people you'vebrought on over the last couple
of years, how they'veprogressed, how they've grown,
(38:48):
how they've been promoted fromwithin, those are stories you
want internally, so there are alot of internal stories to an
organization that they want tohave ready to go.
Steve Brown (39:02):
Excellent. We're having an awesome conversation
with Rob stenberg. His company,his story seekers, how to use
storytelling to impact yoursales process to make a
connection, emotional connectionwith your, your prospects, and
to be a sales professional. Ilove that. So Alright, Rob. And
(39:24):
by the way, if you're listeningon verbal, be sure to subscribe
or if you're watching us onYouTube, be sure to subscribe as
well. So Rob, what's onequestion that you want to answer
that you wished I would haveasked you?
Unknown (39:41):
Yeah, that's a good question. If you're a very good
question asker. And I think thequestion that I haven't been
asked is, how can you use storythroughout the entire sales
process? Right, so we've talkedabout using it maybe in the
beginning when you're firsttalking to somebody There are
different stories that you cantell throughout the entire sales
(40:03):
process that helps move the Ishouldn't even say sales
process, I really should saybuying process because you want
to follow the buying process ofyour clients. And over the
years, I've gotten a kick, asI've gotten longer in the tooth
with my sales experience, as Ilooked at the sales training
I've had in the past and youknow, you got to have this four
(40:25):
step sales process or this sevenstep sales process or what have
you. I look at that. And I thinkto myself, well, if I have a
five step sales process, and myclients have a seven step buying
process, I'm already out ofalignment
Steve Brown (40:41):
with our client.
Unknown (40:42):
So that's one of the things that we we talked about
it story seekers is aligned withyour buying process, and the
stories that you can tell allthe way along there by process
as to moving that by processalong. So in the beginning, I'm
going to tell a customer herostory where I'm going to talk to
them about a peer that we'veworked with, that have gotten
(41:04):
the results they were lookingfor. So that gives their pure
curiosity. And I think pure envyis something that is a very
powerful buying motive forpeople, they don't want to be
outdone by their peers. Thenlater on, as I'm moving down the
sales process of the buyprocess, you know, what's one of
(41:27):
the next questions that theperson I'm talking to ask
themselves, while they're gonnaask themselves do I trust? Rob,
you know, I don't want to hearabout the product yet. I don't
want to hear about the company.
And I don't want to hear aboutyour big clients. I want to know
if I trust the guy sittingacross from me or the gal
sitting across from me. Soyou're Who am I story that shows
that you have character thatthat gives a little bit of your
(41:48):
background. And that's a storythat usually comes out a little
bit later on in this in the buyprocess. And then when you get
to that final stage where riskis high, right? Early in the buy
process, the risk is usuallylow, they're looking for price
and looking for fitting theirneed. Now, like you said
earlier, Oh, geez, if I if I gothis route, and it doesn't work
(42:10):
out, whoo, I'm taking a big riskhere. telling a story about
another customer who did have tomake that same type of a
decision, who was high that hada high risk and had huge
political pressures, because theVice President of his or the CEO
was on them, and the CFO was onthem, and they needed to
(42:31):
increase sales. And so havingthat kind of a story when
somebody had high risk, at thatpoint in the buy process to tell
that story. So that the otherperson again, sitting across me
says, Hey, this person gets meall along the process. they've
stayed in alignment with me allalong my bike process.
Steve Brown (42:54):
Excellent. Tell me what is jargon monoxide?
Unknown (42:59):
jargon monoxide, I love that phrase. jargon monoxide is
when you start talking in your,your market verticals jargon, or
your company's jargon, right? Ifyou start using a lot of
acronyms, I mean, think aboutthe US military. I mean, they're
they're acronym Heaven, right?
They are the acronyms. You don'tknow what half the time it seems
(43:21):
like a different language.
Right. But I mean, even justSAS, you know, SAS, I tell SAS,
well, you know, some people aregoing, What? Are you sassy, but
you know, I mean, just you gotto be careful with I think, as a
sales professional, be carefulwith the jargon. So that because
(43:42):
if you don't have the samedefinition of the phrases you're
using, as the person speaking toyou, communication breaks down
this communication frameworkthat I teach. It's a
communication frameworks tobetter communicate with other
human beings. So jargon monoxideis just those, those things that
(44:05):
you throw them out, we got this,you know, we got that we got
XDY, we got wild z, we got a C,D, and then pretty soon you're
in like I said, acronym, hell,and you don't know what the heck
is going on. And you know what,a lot of people they don't want
to say, What are you talkingabout? I didn't get that. What
does that mean? Right? Theydon't want to feel like they're.
(44:28):
So don't put somebody in thatposition. And what happens is,
salespeople want to try to showhow smart they are. You know
what, Steve? I tell people,Steve, if I'm the smartest guy
in the room, you're in the wrongroom. Right? You got to hang out
with people who are smarter thanyou. Right? So I mean, you don't
want to make your client feellike they're not intelligent.
(44:49):
Right? So be careful with jargonmonoxide. That's,
Steve Brown (44:54):
that's why I learned just to ask questions,
so I wouldn't reveal that Iwasn't the smartest guy. In the
room. So Rob, those folks thatare listening this inspired by
this conversation, how can theyconnect with you? What's the
best way?
Unknown (45:13):
Yeah, they can go to story seekers.us and connect,
connect with me there. They cango on LinkedIn, Rob, Stemberg on
LinkedIn. sta, MB er g Rob firstname. Right find me under Robert
and you know, the sometimes it'sa little of both, but they can
connect with me on LinkedIn orthey can just give me a call. I
answer my phone no matter what.
To 183914156
Steve Brown (45:37):
There you go. Okay, bonus question here. Do you have
a dad joke for us?
Unknown (45:43):
A dad joke. Yeah. dad joke. I don't have a dad joke.
My dad is funny guy. I know. ButI don't I don't. I don't have a
dad joke. Oh, I could give you adad joke. I can give you a joke.
Come on. I grew up in Minnesota.
And so you know, in January,Minnesota, break down cold. I'd
come home. Man, it's cold out. Iremember one time I came home
(46:09):
said this man. It's cold out.
And my dad looked at me saidhey, Rob, you know what's cool
about? I said why dad, he saiddue to the temperature. Thanks,
Dad.
Steve Brown (46:24):
Great job. That's beautiful. All right, Rob,
you've been an awesome guest onthe ROI online podcast brother.
My pleasure. It's been a lot offun being here. I appreciate you
know. Alright. So that's a wrap.
Thanks for listening to anotherfun episode of the ROI online
podcast. For more, be sure tocheck out the show notes of this
(46:47):
episode. And feel free toconnect with me on LinkedIn
where we can chat and I can helpdirect you to the resources
you're searching for. To learnmore about how you can grow your
business better. Be sure to pickup your copy of my book, The
Golden toilet add, surprise thatgolden toilet.com I'm Steve
Brown, and we'll see you nextweek on another fun episode of
(47:10):
the ROI online podcast.
I have a five step sales process. And my clients
have a seven step buyingprocess. I'm already out of
alignment with our client. Sothat's one of the things that we
we talked about it story seekersis aligned with your buying
process. And the stories thatyou can tell all the way along
there by process as to movingthat vibe process along. So in
(00:26):
the beginning, I'm going to tella customer hero story where I'm
going to talk to them about apeer that we've worked with,
that have gotten the resultsthey were looking for. So that
gives their pure curiosity. AndI think pure envy is something
that is a very powerful buyingmotive for for people. They
(00:47):
don't want to be outdone bytheir peers.
Steve Brown (00:49):
Hi, everybody.
Welcome to the ROI onlinepodcast where we believe you,
the courageous entrepreneurs ofour day, are the invisible
heroes of our economy. You notonly improve our world with your
ideas, your grit and yourpassion, but you make our world
better. I'm Steve Brown. Andthis is the place where we have
great conversations with winnersjust like you while we laugh and
(01:12):
learn together.
Rob zinberg Welcome to the ROIonline podcast.
Unknown (01:26):
Thank you very much, Steve, it is great to be here.
I'm excited for this.
Steve Brown (01:30):
Look, this is one of my favorite topics, or the
actually we're taking, we'remaking a contraction, we're
taking two of my favoritetopics. And we're merging them
together. And it's calledstorytelling and sales. And
guess what? You're an expert inboth of those. And you have a
company called story seekerscalm. Story seekers.us got us
(01:54):
even better. It is not us. Yes.
So why why did you plant yourflag there? Rob?
Unknown (02:02):
You know, one of the things that story is, it's part
of my past, it's with the 25plus years, I've been in sales.
And it took me a long time tounderstand why I was successful
in sales. There was a lot oftrial and error, a lot of
crashing and burning a lot ofmissed opportunities and missed
sales over the years, untilabout nine years ago, when a
(02:26):
friend of mine gave me a bookthat decoded in my mind as to
why I was successful in sales.
Steve Brown (02:33):
What book was that?
Unknown (02:35):
It's called what great salespeople do by Mike Bosworth.
I know a great book. It talksabout how it talks about
storytelling, obviously, and howto construct a great story and
how you can find, create andshare great stories. And when I
read that book, a friend of minewho's a now retired University
(02:56):
sales and marketing professor,he gave me the book, he said,
I'd like you to read this bookand just tell me what you think
about this book. And so I readthe book, we got back together
for lunch. And he said, What doyou think I said, I love this
book. I do 80 85% of what's inthis book, why wouldn't I love
this book? I do most of what'sin here? And he said, Well, let
(03:17):
me ask you a couple ofquestions. I said, Sure. He
said, Did you know that that'swhat you did? I said no. I had
no idea. He said, You're what wecall unconsciously competent.
And I said, Yeah, that wouldmake sense. He said, Could you
here's another question. Couldyou use it on demand? I said,
No, I just did it intuitively.
He said, Well, could you scaleit? Could you teach it? No, no,
(03:39):
I couldn't do any of thosethings. Before I read the book
and decoded what what was goingon and what I was doing in my
sales process, unbeknownst to meto be successful. And again,
like I said, over the years, itwas a lot of trial and error, a
lot of crash and burn law salesthat, you know, happened over
the years?
Steve Brown (04:02):
Well, I think that you're addressing something that
I think is a giant misconceptionin the world of business, and
that some salespeople just havethis natural ability to connect,
they just have this gift of gab.
And that's what makes them agreat salesperson. But it's not
true, is it?
Unknown (04:25):
Well, it really isn't.
I mean, there are some peoplewho do intuitively connect
better than others. There's noquestion about that. And I'm
fortunate, I think I'm one ofthose people. And I think that
helped me be successful insales. Early in my sales career,
though. We were told we beingsalespeople in all the training
that I had ever taken in saleswas you know, the first one of
the first steps in the salesprocess, sales processes, you
(04:48):
have to gain report, right, yougain report. Well, you raise
your hand you say well, how doyou do that? And of course the
trainer would say well, I don'tknow. You either can or you
can't. It's not something thatcan be taught. And what we know
now through neuroscience, andwith the brain imaging, and all
of the things that we can dowith science today is we can
(05:11):
teach it, you can teachconnection, which for sales
professionals is huge. It'sabsolutely huge when you can
teach connection, because we'veall heard of that 8020 rule,
right? 20% of the sales staffgenerating 80% of the sales
revenue, and vice presidents ofsales. absolutely hate to stack
(05:33):
rink their sales people and say,geez, if I got 20 salespeople
here, Hmm, what happens if Ilose the two or three, you know,
that are in that in that top20%? Obviously, a lot of things
can go wrong. But we can nowteach that. So, you know, one of
the things that I talked to VicePresidents of sales or sales
(05:56):
directors or sales managersabout is, Hey, you know, you've
got your top salespeople, that'sgreat. It's not broke, don't try
to fix it. However, how manysalespeople Do you have, that
are highly competent? They knowthe product line, they help
other salespeople where theycan. They're great with
(06:18):
customers, they have highcharacter, they're in early,
they stay late. They have a hardtime making their numbers. Oh,
my God, sales people like that?
Absolutely. I got sales. Thoseare the salespeople who don't
know how to connect intuitively,that can be taught how to
connect and make thatconnection. So that when they
(06:38):
get into that discovery,questioning phase of their
clients, their client is alreadysaying to themselves, hey, I
trust this person sitting acrossfrom me, they understand me,
they get me, and I'm going toanswer their questions freely.
And what happens right now isbecause they don't know how to
connect intuitively, they startasking those questions too soon.
(06:58):
And the cut, the client says,Hey, they don't verbalize this,
but they say to themselves, hey,I don't trust you enough right
now to answer those kinds ofquestions.
Steve Brown (07:08):
I think one of the things that you address really
well is most salespeople,they're sitting quietly, waiting
for their chance to pounce.
Okay, you, you made me think ofthis one thing. And now I'm
ready to I'm just dying to sayand give, take a break exam. I
know what you need. I'm gonnapounce. Right? But you're saying
(07:30):
just a minute,
Unknown (07:36):
slow down, slow down to go faster, right. And it's what
what I call artificial patients,you know, where the conversation
is going, you know what the endresult of the conversation is
going to be? If you go too soon,if you start talking too soon,
or offering suggestions oroffering solutions, too soon,
(07:59):
you'll blow the sale. When ifyou had the ability to show some
artificial patience, you'd getto this, you'd get to the end.
Can I tell you a quick story?
How how that really works?
Steve Brown (08:13):
Yes.
Unknown (08:15):
There was a gentleman who took one of our workshops,
it was a workshop we did in SanDiego. And the following week,
he got back in touch with us.
And he said, Hey, I just wantedyou to know that this stuff
works. And here's why. Duringthe workshop, we talked about
art of, you know, having thatartificial patients. And we talk
also about not having what wecall premature elaboration.
(08:39):
We're at a point where asalesperson will say, you know,
if you're the client, and you'retalking to me, Steve, and you
say, Hey, here's what my problemis. And here's my issue, and you
get halfway into your issue. AndI say, Steve, you know what, I
got a lot of clients who arewe're exactly in the same shoes
that you're in, I know exactlywhat you need to do. You need
(09:00):
our solution. And here's oursolution, and they pull out and
they start, you know, they startprescribing, right, they start
saying, here's what you need todo. That's premature
elaboration. For one, youhaven't gotten out your whole
story, right? You haven'tgotten. So now you haven't felt
like I get you, you haven't feltlike you've been heard. And
(09:20):
number two, who wants to be toldthat like, you're just like an
all or a lot of my clients, youdon't want to hear that you want
to hear that you're unique, thatyour problems are unique, that
your problems are, you know,specific to you maybe or you
know that at least the solutionI'm giving is specific to you.
(09:41):
And three and I think mostimportantly, you as a human
being do not like to be toldwhat you need to do. I and I say
this in our workshops all thetime as well. I'll say hey, how
many people in this room or howmany people in this Zoom Room in
these days have Have asignificant other, you know, you
have a romantic relationshipwith somebody, you know, most
(10:02):
the hands go up 80 90% of thehands go up Great, okay? Try
this on your partner, I in thenext day or so. Now in theory,
the person who loves you morethan anybody else in the world
and you go to them and you trythree or four, I need you need
to design and you can evenpreface it with honey, honey,
(10:23):
you need to do this, honey, youneed to do that. And let me know
how well it works out for you.
Right? If the person who lovesyou the most in this world is
going to put up with that, whywould your client so this
gentleman who called us back hesaid, Hey, I went out, I had
that problem. I was in a slump.
That's one of the reasons I tookyour workshop. And as soon as I
heard that, in the workshop, Iknew I was in my slump. And the
(10:46):
following day, the fall, theworkshop ended on a Thursday, I
went on three sales calls onFriday. And in all three sales
calls, I literally, he said Iliterally had to bite my tongue.
Because I knew that my productand service could take care of
the problem. But I just had toshow that artificial patience. I
(11:08):
literally bit my tongue on allthree calls. I made all three
sales. And I there's no way Imake those sales without going
to your workshop and gettinghaving it pointed out to me I
wanted to be Superman, I wantedto be the one riding in on the
white horse and rescuing theclient, when I just needed to
sit back and let them figure outfor themselves what their
(11:30):
solution was. See, they own thesolution, you as the salesperson
don't own the solution. If theclient has a problem, the client
owns the solution. Don't try tobe the here.
Steve Brown (11:44):
Wow. So why do you call it artificial patients?
Unknown (11:49):
Well, because you know where the client where the
client is going to go. If you'reif you have enough expertise
within your, within yourmarketplace in the products and
the services that you sell, youcan see where the conversation
is going to you have talked to1012 1518 dozens of people who
have had a similar situation andyou know that your product and
(12:13):
service is going to take care ofthat problem. However, one thing
you want to remember is thatpeople are best convinced by
reasons they themselvesdiscovered. So I've got to show
the patients that artificialpatience to let the client
figure out for themselves thatmy solution and my product and
(12:36):
service is going to be thesolution that they're looking
for. If I just simply come outand blurt Well, hey, here's my
product, here's my service,it'll take care of it for you,
then they haven't discoveredthat yet. You're probably
familiar with SPIN Selling rightby Neil Rackham. He found back
in the night, late 90, I thinkwas 1979 that he did a study
(12:57):
with Xerox, where the Xeroxwould hire new sales team every
graduation right. So two orthree times a year, they're
going after masters levelcollege graduates, they bring in
a college class of graduatesthat get them into the sales
sales team for 18 months, theirsales would climb, climb, climb,
(13:22):
climb, at 18 months, they'dcrash and burn, they their
performance would go down andthen their morale would go down
soon after that. And every classthey brought in, it was 18
months, 18 months, he said youcould set your watch by it.
Well, that's why they broughthim in is to take a look and try
to figure out why this crash washappening at 18 months. And what
(13:44):
he found out was that at 18months, the sales people pretty
much had what you'd callsolution expertise, right?
they'd seen every permutation ofissue or problem or challenge
that any of their clients aregoing to have. So if they saw
the problem at six months,they'd say, Hmm, wow, do you
(14:07):
mind if I go back and talk tothe people in the lab or talk to
people back at the office andsee if I can find a solution?
And I'll call you back thisafternoon? Of course, the client
would say, Sure, no problem.
Well, at 18 months, theywouldn't say, let me go back to
the office. They'd say, Oh, youcan stop right there. I know
exactly what you need. Here'swhat you need. And the ironic
(14:27):
thing was there such theirsolution, their product or
service would have taken care ofthe client's problem, it would
have cleaned it up for them. Butbecause they prematurely said
and didn't let the client getout their entire story and told
them what they needed to do.
They blew the sale. So that'swhy I called premature print, or
(14:51):
excuse me, I call it artificial.
Artificial patience is you knowwhere the network's gonna go,
you know what the end result isgoing to be. You just Have to
slow down and wait for theclient to catch up to you.
Steve Brown (15:04):
So I've really struggled. You know, I've had
I've been in sales most of mylife. And it really frustrated
me when you walk away. Theysaid, No. But everything was
aligned as why it would be aperfect Yes, everything was
logically, it's going to solvethe problem, save the money,
(15:26):
whatever it was. And yet theystill say no. And it really is
like, what, what did I misshere? And what I realized I was
missing, there was an internalchallenge that was resolved was,
for example, an internalchallenge might be that choosing
(15:47):
my solution posed a riskpolitically inside that
organization. If it fails, ifsomething goes wrong, they're
going to look bad. And I wasoblivious to that. So what did
they do? They avoided that risk,but it had nothing to do with
features and solutions.
Unknown (16:07):
Absolutely. I've got a friend of mine, who's another
sales trainer and, and very goodsalesperson over a number of
years. And she told me a storyabout how she was working with a
potential client. And shethought she had the perfect
solution for this gentlemanbecause he was working every
(16:28):
Christmas Day. So he would spendChristmas morning with his
family. And then he would haveto go in 11 o'clock noon, 11am
noon, go in and go into theoffice, then on Christmas Day,
right? So she she goes in withthis solution. It's an it's in
the IT market space, she's gotthe solution for him. Here it is
(16:52):
that you don't have to spendChristmas, you get to spend all
of Christmas Day with yourfamily. Here it is. It's all
mapped out. Like you said, it'sall logical. And he says no. No,
no. So she keeps trying to sellhim and so on and so forth. No,
(17:13):
no, no, no, no. And so shefinally he finally got to the
point where he said, You knowwhat, you're not going to sell
this to me. It's just not goingto happen. She said, Well, then
I guess I just need to know why.
He said, You know how I pay formy kids. Christmas presents,
how? By working Christmas day,every year, you take that away
from me. You take away my kidsChristmas presents? Well, that
(17:38):
was his internal. That was hisway of taking care of things and
taking care of his familybecause he got paid like triple
time or whatever on ChristmasDay. So that's why he did what
he did. And if she even thoughit would have saved the company
money, he's like, I can't givethat up. Because then I'm you're
taking money out of my pocket.
(18:01):
And there are many times I'vegotten many examples of
salespeople going in thinking,what they're proposing is great.
However, the internal strugglethat you're talking about with
people, you have to recognize ifsomething's there, you have to
look for it.
Steve Brown (18:18):
So you have a process. I love the name story
tending. But it's a processwhereby you can identify what
the internal struggle is.
Unknown (18:29):
Yeah, storytelling is something that, you know,
there's a as you know, there's alot of people out there teaching
storytelling, right for sales.
And I think the, you know,there's a lot of them telling
the the why story and what kindof stories to build. I don't
think there are a lot as to howto build those stories and how
to craft a great story. And thenwhen to tell that story.
Steve Brown (18:54):
So I think you're so I want to make sure I tee
this up good for our audience,right? We all hear storytelling,
and our default packaging ofthat is we must be good at
telling a story. But actuallythe secret is opposite.
Unknown (19:13):
You absolutely it and I say all the time, whereas
influence how do you what's thebest way to influence somebody?
Is it to is it to talk to them?
Or is it to listen to them? Andthe influences in the story
tending? And we don't just saystory listening, right? It's
story tending. You tend to agarden, you tend to a fire, you
(19:34):
tend to a child scraped knee.
You do it with care, you do itwith love, you do it with
attention, and that's how weteach you to listen to your
clients stories. So you hearwithout maybe without even being
said the internal struggle. It'sit's something that kind of gets
(19:58):
revealed in when they're tellingtheir story. And so to be able
to attend somebody's story isjust absolutely crucial.
Steve Brown (20:07):
So let's do a little exercise show us how you
tend to story. All right?
Unknown (20:13):
Well, with any story, there is four, great four
elements, Danny story, and thiscomes right out of Hollywood,
right? There's a setting,there's a complication, there's
the turning point. And thenthere's a resolution. So the
setting is, you know, the where,what, when weather conditions,
you know, just you can do asetting and very think of a
(20:34):
movie, think of any movie you'vebeen to any play, you've gone to
any book you've read, right?
There's the setting, then thinkof the complication, right? If
you're thinking of a movie, thatlast movie that you went and
saw, you know, there's there'sthat complication, that's where
most of the movie is spent is inthat complication. And then
there's the turning point of themovie, which is that aha moment,
(20:54):
the characters see a new way ofdoing things, and they get a
better result than what washappening in a complication. And
then the resolution is simplyhow things turned out long term.
So I, I'll tell you a quickstory about a business partner
of mine who was introducing meto somebody for the first time
(21:14):
over a zoom meeting. And thisperson worked in the financial
services industry. And so mybusiness partner knows this
person, and again, introducingme so I was meeting her for the
first time will resume. And somy business partner said, Your
name is Christie Christie, whydon't you tell rob your story?
Well, she started her story, shewent back quite a ways. She
(21:35):
probably talked for eight to 10minutes about her story. And so
my business partner said, Well,I'm going to do something here
that Rob doesn't know, I'm goingto do Christie. But Rob, I want
you to give Christie her storyback to her. And so I gave her
her story back to her in lessthan two minutes. Now, again,
she talked for eight to 10. AndI said, Christy, can I get you?
(21:56):
And she said, wow.
When's your next workshop? Iwant to learn how you How did
you do that? And I didn't evendid you take notes? I didn't
even see you take any notes. Didyou take notes? I said, No, I
didn't take any notes. She said,How did you do that? You didn't
miss anything in my story. Howdid you do that? Well, those
(22:20):
four elements of the story thatyou're used to craft a great
story are also the bestlistening framework tending
framework that I've ever workedwith. So if somebody is telling
me their story, as they'retelling that story, they'll
start out in the beginning,they'll start out in the
setting, they'll jump to Oh,what was part of their turning
(22:42):
point, then they'll go intowhat's going on today, then to
back to a complicated, they jumpall over the place. That's what
we do as human beings. Andthat's why I think storytelling
is also very, it's verydangerous, just to say, you know
what, you need to learn how totell great stories. Because if
we don't know how to craft them,we start telling stories that
are too long, too boring. We'veheard we've all had people tell
(23:05):
us stories, right? You're like,why is this person telling me
the story? They're 10 minutesin, I still don't know what the
heck they're talking about. Butif you use it in a listening
framework, and now I can, as Iwas listening to Christie, I was
taking each of those segmentsand anything that she said, and
in my mind, I was putting themin one of those four story
(23:28):
elements. So now when I tell herstory back to her, I tell it
back to her in an organizedmanner. And that's why she says,
Wow, How'd you do that? You justtold me I've had people say,
you've told me my story back tome better than I told it to you.
Because see, they weren'torganized with it. And I
organized it and regurgitatedit, if you will, back to them.
(23:51):
But the other thing they do iswow, this guy really listened to
me. Think about the last timeyou were really listened to you
were really tended, right? Sothat that story framework that
we teach is also a storylistening framework. That's,
it's it's better than anythingI've ever worked with.
Steve Brown (24:10):
Hey, I wanted to pause right here and tell you
about a book that you need toget today. It's the funniest
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your marketing budget into yourwebsite and build a system that
grows your business. And guesswho wrote it? That's right. I
wrote it. And I wrote it justfor you. Because I want to help
(24:32):
you get past the last hurdles ofsetting up your business and
getting it squared away. I wroteit so that you can avoid time
wasting time wasting money,wasting frustration, get the
book on Audible. You can get iton Kindle. You can get it on
Amazon, but get the book takeadvantage of the insights in
(24:54):
there. And let me know what youthink. And now back to this
Excellent episode. So you thinkabout the emotional reaction
that she had. that emotion iscoming from? Wow, he gets me. He
gets me and I feel safe.
Exactly.
Unknown (25:19):
And what happens to the trust level? When some when you
sit when you know that somebodygets you? What What, what do you
automatically almost do is if Iif this person gets me, they're
gonna get my trust because theyunderstand me they understand my
my challenges they and they can.
The one of the stories that wehelp people with is what we call
a customer hero story. Right? IfI'm going to talk to a vice
(25:42):
president of sales in the ITspace, I'm going to offer if I'm
talking to him, then the vicepresidents say can I tell you a
story about another, anothervice president of sales in it
that we've worked with, wherewe've been working together,
we've increased their sales 15%over the last three months,
who's going to say no to thatstory? Nobody, you just don't
(26:05):
sit we as human beings story ishardwired into us. We are story
seeking. And that's why the namestory seekers, we are story
seeking animals. I mean, we wantthe it's, if you think back to
the when you took history, andyou saw the pictures in your
(26:25):
history book of the cave wallsand all the paintings on the
cave walls. That wasstorytelling that was the
cavemen and the cave women alltelling stories about what was
going on in their world at thetime, there was story long
before the written word. Andeven before the spoken word,
that we were telling stories. Sowhen you offer somebody a story,
(26:46):
and we know this now throughneuroscience, what happens in
somebody's brains, it's liketelling a five year old kid once
upon a time, it's like openingup a book to a five year old kid
and say, once upon a time, hey,our brain say I'm safe. I don't
have to do anything, I canrelax. However, I better pay
attention. Because somethingimportant might be said that I
(27:08):
need to remember later on. Now,I want to repeat that because
it's really important. You thinkabout the situation you're in,
you're trying to influenceyou're trying and attempting to
gain trust with somebody to helpthem because that's why you're
there as a salesperson to helpthem. You're trying to influence
them and you're trying to gaintheir trust. And when you say to
them, can I share a quick storywith you about a peer of yours?
(27:31):
What happens in their brain isI'm safe. I don't have to do
anything, I can relax. But Ibetter pay attention because
something important might besaid that I need to remember
later. Can you think Steve havea better frame of mind to put
somebody in that you're tryingto influence? I can't. And so
that's the power of story.
Steve Brown (27:55):
So you're listening, or you're watching.
Matter of fact, if you'rewatching on YouTube, be sure to
like and subscribe. And ifyou're listening on verbal same
subscribe to our station. Butwe're having a fascinating
conversation with Rob stenberg.
He's from story seekers. Andhe's teaching us how to story
tend. So we think we need to begreat storytellers, we should
(28:18):
definitely know how to tell astory so that we can help
arrange someone else's story. SoRob, I get I've got these common
questions that always come up.
So I'm going to ask them, my askthese questions to you. And
we're just going to, we're goingto be fascinated by what your
(28:40):
answer is. Okay. Well, okay, sowhat is storytelling? Now? It
seems like a simple question,but it's not.
Unknown (28:52):
It does seem like a simple question. And it is not.
storytelling, to me, is anorganized, focused story that
you're telling to yourprospective client, with one
intention, and that's to getthem to tell you their story.
(29:14):
That's why your storystorytelling needs to be short,
depending on the situation,right? I mean, as trust
increases with your potentialclient, your timeframe to be
able to tell stories increases,right. So but in the beginning,
if I'm talking to a client forthe very first time, my story
needs to be short 60 to 90seconds to give to follow on
(29:37):
with the example of if I'mtalking to a vice president of
sales in it for the first time,and I offer Can I tell you a
story about another sales VP weworked with that story needs to
be short 60 to 90 seconds, 90seconds, absolute tops. So
storytelling means what isstorytelling, storytelling is
(29:58):
something that's focused withthe purpose and intent to get
your clients story.
Steve Brown (30:04):
Wow. Why is storytelling important?
Unknown (30:08):
Because it's a, it's how we connect as human beings.
You know, I think I think ofpeople because I've worked with
people with Asperger's, you knowwhat Asperger's is, and I just,
I have so much empathy for thembecause they have no way to
emotionally connect with people.
And that's why storytelling isso important. If you want to
(30:28):
make a great emotionalconnection with somebody, tell
them a story that's relevant tothem, that lets them also get
their story out of it lets themtell their story. Because that's
really what we want to do ashuman beings, right? When I hear
a story, I want to tell a storyas well, it triggers my brain
(30:49):
that, Oh, geez, this story isalso pertinent to this
discussion. And I want to tellit as well. But storytelling is
important, because you said itearlier, right? All the logic is
there, but somebody doesn't makea decision to buy from you.
That's because decisions aremade emotionally and not
logically, we make decisionsemotionally, we justify them
(31:09):
logically. And if we don't makethat emotional connection with
people, the odds of themdeciding to purchase from you
drop dramatically.
Steve Brown (31:20):
Well, how to be a good storyteller.
Unknown (31:25):
Practice, practice, practice, you've heard it in
real estate, right location,location. With storytelling,
practice, practice, practice ishow you become a good
storyteller. Know the situationthat you're in what what I call
situational awareness. Andpractice the stories that you're
going to tell practice them, Ican tell my story, my what I
(31:48):
call my who I am story, I cantell it in 60 seconds, I can
tell it in two minutes, I cantell it in five minutes, I can
tell it in 10 minutes, justdepends on how much detail I
want to put in there. Butpractice the stories that you're
telling. Write them out, getthat setting, get that
complication, get the turningpoint and get the resolution in
(32:11):
that story. Secondly, to be agreat storyteller. Remember one
thing, never tell a storywithout a point. And never make
a point without a story.
Steve Brown (32:23):
Wow. Thanks.
Excellent. So for a brand, whyis storytelling so important?
Unknown (32:32):
I think it's extremely important for brand because
again, you want to make thatimpact the brand wants to make
that emotional connection withtheir potential clients with the
people who buy from them. Andwho wants to become part of
their tribe even Right. I mean,if I'm, if I'm telling a story
as a brand, and it doesn'tresonate with somebody, that's
(32:53):
okay, maybe they're not myclient. So it lets you figure
out who your client is, who yourclient isn't. And it lets you
make that emotional connectionwith them. And if you want to
think about it, from a brandperspective, I think one of the
best brands that have made thatemotional connection and to do
that so well, that people eventattoo this brand on their
(33:17):
bodies. I mean, they permanentlytattoo the brand on their
bodies. And I'm think I think alot of people will know who I'm
talking about Harley Davidson,right. I mean, there's such an
emotional connection with thatbrand and their riders that, you
know, you go to some of themotorcycle rallies, and you see
all kinds of Harley Davidsontattoos. I mean, that's, that's
(33:39):
an emotional connection withyour client, right? And so
that's why it's important forbrand to have great stories so
that they can make that kind ofconnection.
Steve Brown (33:50):
You know, when you think about putting a tattoo on
you, you're making that a partof your identity. And so that
story helps you have thattattoo, you see yourself in that
story. That's why you're happyto put that brand on you.
Absolutely. Absolutely. Sointernal storytelling, what's
(34:14):
one benefit of internalsstorytelling?
Unknown (34:18):
You know, I think I think I when I think of that
question I think of the wordinternal and I think of internal
in two different ways oneinternal to me as the person and
internal to an organizationnumber two, so in internal to me
why I think it's so important isthe the stories that we tell
(34:41):
ourselves, we have to be verycareful with them. We have to be
careful with the stories we tellourselves especially as sales
professionals, and I I use theterm sales professionals, not
sales people, salesprofessionals, we tell ourselves
the stories of either we'rereally good where we Really bad.
We're, you know, we're not goodat prospecting, oh, we're not
(35:04):
good at closing Oh, we're notgood at we're not good at, we've
got to be careful about thoseinternal stories and change
those internal stories to morepositive Im statements. I am a
good storyteller, I am a goodsalesperson, I am a good sales
professional, I am a goodprospecting, I enjoy, put it on
the positive. So internally, asan individual, I think it's
(35:26):
extremely important the storieswe tell ourselves. There's
nothing that can help our psychemore than being positive and
giving ourselves some grace tofrom an internal standpoint,
from a corporation or firm. Andfrom an organizational
standpoint, there are so manyreasons to be good storytellers,
(35:47):
internally, to pass on theinformation from one generation
to the next inside anorganization and how things were
done, and how things should bedone. And just some of the
things that the company standsfor in the company story and why
the company started and what whythey did some of the things that
(36:08):
they did, I think ofNorthwestern Mutual. Have you
ever heard Northwestern Mutual'sfounder story?
Steve Brown (36:16):
I don't think so.
Unknown (36:17):
Northwestern Mutual, has got a great founder story,
they started back in the1870s 1880s. And two years after
they started, there was and theystarted in Wisconsin, a train
was going from two cities inWisconsin, and nine, there was a
train crash to nine people diedin the train crash, two of the
(36:39):
people were Northwestern Mutualpolicyholders. To pay off those
two policies, it was 30 $500 topay them both off. The only
problem was companies only twoyears old, they only had $2,000
in equity, so they ownersborrowed money to pay off. Now,
(37:02):
that's the kind of thing thatNorthwestern Mutual, if I'm a
Northwestern Mutual rep, I'mgonna say that's our, that's
where we, that's back all theway to the late 1800s. And you
can tell that story, but say,you know what, that's still the
way this company operates today,if you're a Northwestern Mutual
rep, that's a huge story tohave. So internally, it's
(37:23):
important to have, especiallyfor CEOs, when they're telling
their strategy story, when theywant to get buy in from the rest
of the employees in the company.
If they just simply come out andsay, here are the numbers,
here's what we're gonna do. Andlet's do it. Not real
motivational the that what'sgoing to happen is the employees
of that company are going tofill in the narrative
(37:45):
themselves, or if they don'thave enough information, because
we are story seeking animals,we're going to fill in those
gaps. And you've probably workedat places where that's happened.
But if the CEO has a greatstrategy story as to why that
company is going to take thesteps they're going to take, and
what it's going to look like forthe employees in each of those
(38:07):
departments. And this is why thestrategy is important. And this
is the future story of thecompany. This is where the
stories, this is where thecompany is going to end up three
to five years from now, muchmore motivational and
inspirational to the employeesof that company. And to get that
buy in from the employees tofollow where the CEO wants to
(38:27):
take the company, those internalstories are so so from an HR
standpoint, why should I as anemployee, you want to come on
with this company, if you're anHR professional, you want to
have stories as to talentacquisition, what's happened to
some of the people you'vebrought on over the last couple
of years, how they'veprogressed, how they've grown,
(38:48):
how they've been promoted fromwithin, those are stories you
want internally, so there are alot of internal stories to an
organization that they want tohave ready to go.
Steve Brown (39:02):
Excellent. We're having an awesome conversation
with Rob stenberg. His company,his story seekers, how to use
storytelling to impact yoursales process to make a
connection, emotional connectionwith your, your prospects, and
to be a sales professional. Ilove that. So Alright, Rob. And
(39:24):
by the way, if you're listeningon verbal, be sure to subscribe
or if you're watching us onYouTube, be sure to subscribe as
well. So Rob, what's onequestion that you want to answer
that you wished I would haveasked you?
Unknown (39:41):
Yeah, that's a good question. If you're a very good
question asker. And I think thequestion that I haven't been
asked is, how can you use storythroughout the entire sales
process? Right, so we've talkedabout using it maybe in the
beginning when you're firsttalking to somebody There are
different stories that you cantell throughout the entire sales
(40:03):
process that helps move the Ishouldn't even say sales
process, I really should saybuying process because you want
to follow the buying process ofyour clients. And over the
years, I've gotten a kick, asI've gotten longer in the tooth
with my sales experience, as Ilooked at the sales training
I've had in the past and youknow, you got to have this four
(40:25):
step sales process or this sevenstep sales process or what have
you. I look at that. And I thinkto myself, well, if I have a
five step sales process, and myclients have a seven step buying
process, I'm already out ofalignment
Steve Brown (40:41):
with our client.
Unknown (40:42):
So that's one of the things that we we talked about
it story seekers is aligned withyour buying process, and the
stories that you can tell allthe way along there by process
as to moving that by processalong. So in the beginning, I'm
going to tell a customer herostory where I'm going to talk to
them about a peer that we'veworked with, that have gotten
(41:04):
the results they were lookingfor. So that gives their pure
curiosity. And I think pure envyis something that is a very
powerful buying motive forpeople, they don't want to be
outdone by their peers. Thenlater on, as I'm moving down the
sales process of the buyprocess, you know, what's one of
(41:27):
the next questions that theperson I'm talking to ask
themselves, while they're gonnaask themselves do I trust? Rob,
you know, I don't want to hearabout the product yet. I don't
want to hear about the company.
And I don't want to hear aboutyour big clients. I want to know
if I trust the guy sittingacross from me or the gal
sitting across from me. Soyou're Who am I story that shows
that you have character thatthat gives a little bit of your
(41:48):
background. And that's a storythat usually comes out a little
bit later on in this in the buyprocess. And then when you get
to that final stage where riskis high, right? Early in the buy
process, the risk is usuallylow, they're looking for price
and looking for fitting theirneed. Now, like you said
earlier, Oh, geez, if I if I gothis route, and it doesn't work
(42:10):
out, whoo, I'm taking a big riskhere. telling a story about
another customer who did have tomake that same type of a
decision, who was high that hada high risk and had huge
political pressures, because theVice President of his or the CEO
was on them, and the CFO was onthem, and they needed to
(42:31):
increase sales. And so havingthat kind of a story when
somebody had high risk, at thatpoint in the buy process to tell
that story. So that the otherperson again, sitting across me
says, Hey, this person gets meall along the process. they've
stayed in alignment with me allalong my bike process.
Steve Brown (42:54):
Excellent. Tell me what is jargon monoxide?
Unknown (42:59):
jargon monoxide, I love that phrase. jargon monoxide is
when you start talking in your,your market verticals jargon, or
your company's jargon, right? Ifyou start using a lot of
acronyms, I mean, think aboutthe US military. I mean, they're
they're acronym Heaven, right?
They are the acronyms. You don'tknow what half the time it seems
(43:21):
like a different language.
Right. But I mean, even justSAS, you know, SAS, I tell SAS,
well, you know, some people aregoing, What? Are you sassy, but
you know, I mean, just you gotto be careful with I think, as a
sales professional, be carefulwith the jargon. So that because
(43:42):
if you don't have the samedefinition of the phrases you're
using, as the person speaking toyou, communication breaks down
this communication frameworkthat I teach. It's a
communication frameworks tobetter communicate with other
human beings. So jargon monoxideis just those, those things that
(44:05):
you throw them out, we got this,you know, we got that we got
XDY, we got wild z, we got a C,D, and then pretty soon you're
in like I said, acronym, hell,and you don't know what the heck
is going on. And you know what,a lot of people they don't want
to say, What are you talkingabout? I didn't get that. What
does that mean? Right? Theydon't want to feel like they're.
(44:28):
So don't put somebody in thatposition. And what happens is,
salespeople want to try to showhow smart they are. You know
what, Steve? I tell people,Steve, if I'm the smartest guy
in the room, you're in the wrongroom. Right? You got to hang out
with people who are smarter thanyou. Right? So I mean, you don't
want to make your client feellike they're not intelligent.
(44:49):
Right? So be careful with jargonmonoxide. That's,
Steve Brown (44:54):
that's why I learned just to ask questions,
so I wouldn't reveal that Iwasn't the smartest guy. In the
room. So Rob, those folks thatare listening this inspired by
this conversation, how can theyconnect with you? What's the
best way?
Unknown (45:13):
Yeah, they can go to story seekers.us and connect,
connect with me there. They cango on LinkedIn, Rob, Stemberg on
LinkedIn. sta, MB er g Rob firstname. Right find me under Robert
and you know, the sometimes it'sa little of both, but they can
connect with me on LinkedIn orthey can just give me a call. I
answer my phone no matter what.
To 183914156
Steve Brown (45:37):
There you go. Okay, bonus question here. Do you have
a dad joke for us?
Unknown (45:43):
A dad joke. Yeah. dad joke. I don't have a dad joke.
My dad is funny guy. I know. ButI don't I don't. I don't have a
dad joke. Oh, I could give you adad joke. I can give you a joke.
Come on. I grew up in Minnesota.
And so you know, in January,Minnesota, break down cold. I'd
come home. Man, it's cold out. Iremember one time I came home
(46:09):
said this man. It's cold out.
And my dad looked at me saidhey, Rob, you know what's cool
about? I said why dad, he saiddue to the temperature. Thanks,
Dad.
Steve Brown (46:24):
Great job. That's beautiful. All right, Rob,
you've been an awesome guest onthe ROI online podcast brother.
My pleasure. It's been a lot offun being here. I appreciate you
know. Alright. So that's a wrap.
Thanks for listening to anotherfun episode of the ROI online
podcast. For more, be sure tocheck out the show notes of this
(46:47):
episode. And feel free toconnect with me on LinkedIn
where we can chat and I can helpdirect you to the resources
you're searching for. To learnmore about how you can grow your
business better. Be sure to pickup your copy of my book, The
Golden toilet add, surprise thatgolden toilet.com I'm Steve
Brown, and we'll see you nextweek on another fun episode of
(47:10):
the ROI online podcast.
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