From Receptionist to Roofing Sales with Leah Schwartz

In this episode of The Roofing Millionaires podcast, Leah shares her journey from receptionist to sales specialist at Landmark Roofing, discussing the challenges and successes she has faced in the roofing industry.

She emphasizes the importance of mindset, building trust with homeowners, and the value of follow-ups in closing sales.

Leah also highlights the significance of continuous learning, the role of AI in modern sales strategies, and the need for a balanced life through hobbies.

The conversation provides valuable insights for anyone in sales, particularly in the roofing sector.

Key Takeaways:

- January 2025 has been a record month for sales.

- Transitioning from receptionist to sales specialist was challenging but rewarding.

- Handling objections is a continuous learning process.

- Building trust with homeowners is crucial for sales success.

- Finding a product, you believe in is essential for effective selling.

- Mistakes in sales are learning opportunities, not failures.

- Follow-ups significantly increase close rates.

- Using CRM systems can streamline the sales process.

- Family dynamics can positively influence business operations.

- Having hobbies is important for mental health and balance.

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
If you're going to be stepping into sales, my recommendation is be finding somewhere

(00:04):
you're comfortable with, finding a product that you can truly believe in.
Because if you don't truly believe in that product and the company that you're working
for or the service that you're providing, the homeowner is automatically going to know
that you're after a paycheck.
I feel like fear holds people back quite a bit.
You know, I'm not saying just go up your job, up and leave your job, quit it, and you'll

(00:26):
find something.
But if you're not happy where you are, you have to search your heart, truly your brain,
your mind.
Why are you not happy there?
What would you rather be doing?
Like last year, I'm not scared to admit it.
I missed my mark.
And, you know, it's one of those things where you don't dwell on that.

(00:49):
You set a BHAG, which is your crazy go, and you set your conservative go.
You reach for that BHAG.
If you don't hit that BHAG, you still hate your conservative go and you're still winning.
You're not losing.
Just picking up the phone and making a quick phone call takes what, five minutes, if that,
to do that.
I've seen my close rate increase by at least 3% on low.

(01:12):
I feel that most marketing agencies or marketers themselves, even they are in-house, they have
complicated branding and marketing so much that companies are, in one month, they are
trying this and next month they are trying something else.
However, branding and marketing are the easiest thing that you can do as a company because

(01:32):
all it takes is that you just have to show up and you have to tell people that this is
who we are.
These are the things that we stand for.
These are the things that make us different from all the competition.
And if you still have any doubt or any obstacles in your way of working with us, this is our
guarantee or this is our offer that kicks out all these obstacles and you can simply

(01:55):
work with us.
Now content that, look at this big roof I completed, look at this big roof I completed,
it's about throwing out content that can actually be helpful to someone trying to make a decision.
Because you can, I mean, you can Google the word roof and going down the line, you will
see within the first five minutes, 10 different opinions on work fame, right?

(02:18):
And when it comes to someone that has absolutely no idea about a roofing system, it can get
very confusing very quickly.
Top three recommendations in terms of books that you would give to someone who is in roofing
sales?
Books, so it would be Emotional Intelligence 2.0.
I noticed a huge turnaround in responses from insurance companies on planes with the user

(02:45):
chat GPT and the options with that is unlimited.
I'm guessing that you are saying that the turnaround gets higher when you are using
chat GPT in your claims, right?
Any signing of notes or advice that you would like to give to anyone who is listening or
watching through this episode?
Never, never quit learning because I feel like you can cap yourself where you're at

(03:12):
if you try to quit learning.
Hey everyone, welcome to the latest episode of the Roofing Millennials podcast, the only
Roofing podcast where we don't sell you anything and we don't promote anyone.
Today we are sitting down with Leah Schwartz from Landmark Roofing and Leah shares how
she started her journey in roofing as a receptionist and then transitioned into a sales specialist.

(03:36):
Plus, we have also talked about how you can maximize the gains from sales reps in your
roofing business and how you can use artificial intelligence to get easy approvals on your
insurance claims.
This episode is filled with insights on sales, content creation and how you can get the best
out of your day being a sales rep in roofing.

(03:57):
Let's dive in.
Welcome to the Roofing Millennials podcast, Leah.
It's great to have you on the show.
We are recording this episode on the very last day of January 2025.
So I want to ask you, how's been the first month for you so far?
Yeah, honestly, I'm happy to be here to start off.

(04:21):
It's a great day.
January 2025 has been great for me so far.
I've been having a record month for January.
Usually they say January is pretty slow for sales, but I've been hit over 100,000 this
month so great start to the new year for me.

(04:41):
And you're working as a sales specialist at Landmark Roofing, right?
Yeah, I'm correct.
Yep.
I've been doing sales for about seven years now.
And as far as I know, it's your brother's company.
So what's the story behind Landmark Roofing?
Like how did it begin?
Yeah, so it's an interesting story.
I mean, to me actually, so my father's owned a construction business for 40 years this

(05:04):
year.
And the family, excuse me, grew up in the Amish.
So in the Amish, he graduated school at 15.
So we all graduated school and went straight into the construction industry.
My brother, he just had this business mindset, business mind frame.
So he started Landmark Roofing in 2015.

(05:26):
And I originally started out as an office receptionist, but I'm a go-getter.
I can't set steel for very long.
I did that for about a year and one day he was like, I think you'd make a great sales
rep.
We're going to put you in sales.
So here we are.
And how was the transition from being receptionist to being a sales specialist?

(05:47):
It was a little different.
I definitely think the customer experience starting out as a receptionist was great for
me, but actually transitioning over to it the first few weeks, it was a little struggle
for me because you have that experience behind the desk, behind the phone, but then you have
to get used to being actually face to face with the customer.

(06:11):
And I think that's a different kind of environment because you are facing homeowners directly.
You have to face their objections and you have this sales pressure on you as well.
So as you said that your brother asked you to step into sales, how did you handle that
pressure or did you face that in the first place?
Well, I think I still want to say that I'm still trying to learn how to handle that.

(06:35):
I think it's, I'm trying to put it into words, but it's a whole new mindset.
I say the word mindset very, very cautiously, but you have to learn how to allow those objections
to basically not take it personally.
And I think anyone in sales kind of understands what I'm talking about there.

(06:56):
You know, when you're sitting behind the desk, you know, you get a phone call in and ultimately
I'm not in no means putting a receptionist in an easy job frame, but like, you know,
you pass those phone calls on.
Whereas with the project estimator position being in front of them, while you're there

(07:22):
in the moment, you can't necessarily pass those along.
So you have to learn how to control your emotions while you're in the moment.
And I think that was one of the hardest things for me.
And how did you learn that?
Boy, I'm still learning it.
Is there any training or process?

(07:42):
Yes, I'm still learning it.
There's a process, I don't know, many people know Chuck Tokey.
I follow a lot of Chuck Tokey.
His objection handling process is very great, helped me tremendously.
You know, we still get our good days and we still get our bad days.
And speaking of challenges, I feel that most salespeople, if they are ethical and if you

(08:04):
have that values and you know that your service is great, it automatically gets reflected
into your conversations as well.
You speak to your homeowners with the sense of responsibility and you know that you are
delivering something of value.
And how do you see that most salespersons in roofing, they are doing door to doors and

(08:24):
at times they just are chasing the sales rather than delivering value.
What are your thoughts on that?
So excuse me, if you're going to be stepping into sales, my recommendation is me finding
somewhere you're comfortable with, finding a product that you can truly believe in.
Because if you don't truly believe in that product and the company that you're working

(08:46):
for or the service that you're providing, the homeowner is automatically going to know
that you're after a paycheck.
You can try and hide it as much as you want.
Your face doesn't lie.
I've seen reps become, that are after paychecks, become pushy sales reps.
I don't think they know that they're doing it.
It just kind of comes across that way.
So if you're getting into sales, definitely find a structure that you can follow.

(09:10):
Like I said, I follow Chuck Tokey.
So like find a structure that you can follow, study up on that, get as much practice in
as you possibly can.
By practice, I mean role play, following that instructor as closely as possible.
Look for someone in sales that you maybe look up to, maybe ask them for advice.
But I definitely think it comes down to finding something that you truly believe in and chasing

(09:35):
after that.
I agree with you on that.
And however, I also feel that whenever you are starting out in sales, there are conversations
that you mess as well.
And later on you realize that, okay, you could have said this instead of that.
And that would have closed the deal.
Did that happen with you as well?
Really?
That happens to me quite often.

(09:55):
You know, it's so easy.
I mean, especially for me, it's so easy when you're inside of that appointment.
You know what you need to do to get the appointment done.
Sometimes your brain just runs a little bit faster than your beat.
And when you're out of there and you don't have the cell in your brain, it's a paradigm.
It's time to take you back to the point, I should have done this, I should have done

(10:19):
this and I should have done this.
But the next appointment, instead of focusing on one certain thing and missing the next
five steps that you're supposed to hit, focus on the here and now.
And don't dwell on the point that you missed in that last appointment.
Because I can tell you, the more you focus on that one certain thing that you missed,

(10:40):
you're going to start missing maybe something in your pitch.
Because your mind is going to be so wrapped around that one certain point.
It's just the way the human brain works, honestly.
It's just going to continue going and you're going to get flustered and you're going to
lose yourself basically.
That's a good answer.

(11:00):
And yeah, I feel that when you are too focused on the problem, you stop looking for the solutions
and actually you stop looking into the things that the homeowner is saying.
Because oftentimes people are saying stuff, if you can just pick their words, you can
find and you can dig into their problems, right?

(11:20):
Correct, correct.
You have to be an active listener.
Yeah.
Yes.
And if you cannot find that paying solution, if you don't know the problem to their pain,
you're never going to find that solution.
You can easily talk yourself out of a sale.
Stop and guilty of that.
You get a homeowner that you're really, really comfortable with and before you know it, you're

(11:42):
in their house talking and like an hour's gone by and you haven't even started discussing
the job yet.
And then once you actually start discussing it, you kind of forget, not that you forget,
but your mind loses this track of, okay, this is what I'm here for, this is what I need
to do.
And you talk about so many things and then that's where the confusion starts to set in
with the homeowner as well.

(12:04):
And you know what, most of the times people are giving signals that you have to catch
in order to make the sale.
For example, if a homeowner asks you about the kind of materials you will be using on
their home.
Now, it isn't about the materials.
It's about something that they faced in the past that is leading them to ask this question.

(12:24):
And you just have to dig in like why you are asking this or what's the reason behind this
question?
Once you dig into that, you will find that five years late, before or three years ago,
someone screwed up the job for them and that's why they are concerned now.
So it's not the materials, it's actually the emotion behind that objection that you
need to handle.
Yes, no, I 100% agree with that because you can try to sell your product all you want.

(12:54):
There are many, many great products in the industry right now on the market.
And I think anyone can sell any one of those products, but you basically have to sell yourself.
I 100% agree with that because if that homeowner does not have the comfortableness behind that
product, there's nothing there.
If they don't have the trust there, there's nothing there.

(13:17):
Quite frankly, I could be wrong, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think 90% of the homeowners
don't really care what kind of product they're getting on their house.
They care about who's installing that product and who they're going to have standing behind
them once that product is actually installed.
No, you are actually right on this because every roofer says that we have the best quality,

(13:38):
we have the best materials and we have the best service.
If every roofer has that, then who are these roofer who mess up these jobs?
And at the end of the day, if you can just present yourself in the right way and show
up the values that you stand for, you win the project.
And I feel that most people actually, most people don't care about the materials.

(14:01):
I agree with you on that.
However, I do feel that the good guys are responsible because they need to show up and
they need to guide the homeowners in order to make the best decisions.
Because I personally feel that if someone goes for a cheaper bill and you are the one
who did go to that project as well, but you didn't get the job, it's because you weren't

(14:27):
able to show your value.
That's why the homeowner picked the wrong guy.
And a part of that mistake needs to be owned by you as well.
So how can someone actually win those deals and actually deliver value to the homeowners
so they can be satisfied?
Okay, I did my best.
Now if they chose someone, if they chose the cheapest bid and they fucked up their roof,

(14:51):
then it's up to them.
But I did my best and most people don't do that.
That's 100% accurate.
And like I said, it comes down to you have to believe in your product and in your company
enough that you can provide that information to that homeowner.
Giving that homeowner the best that you possibly can.

(15:11):
And you walk out of that appointment and you're like, man, I should have done this.
I should have done this.
I should have done this.
Don't beat yourself up about it.
We all make mistakes and it comes down to is are you going to stay in that certain situation?
Are you going to take that as a learning curve?
Are you going to walk into the next appointment and try to better yourself?

(15:31):
I don't care if you just try to better yourself 1% each appointment.
At least you're trying to better yourself for that homeowner.
And I was reading your bio or there was an Instagram post by you in which you were mentioned
that you don't love nine to five.
That's why you stepped into sales and you're enjoying it.
That raised a question in my mind that it's your brother company, Leah, and you can make

(15:56):
the transition.
However, if someone like me, like I am working my ass off in a company and I'm not enjoying
the job, but I have a family to feed as well.
Now I cannot just leave this position and transition into that.
How can someone find because you are in your twenties, I am in your twenties as well.

(16:16):
How do you feel someone can find their groove?
Oh boy.
Yeah.
So I, I don't have, I mean, I have family, but I'm single.
And so decisions for me, I feel are easy, so to speak.
You know, but to find your groove, I think it truly leads down to where your heart is,

(16:37):
where you're happy.
I feel like fear holds people back quite a bit.
No, I'm not saying just go up your job, up and leave your job, quit it and you'll find
something.
But if you're not happy where you are, you have to search your heart, truly your brain,
your mind.
Why are you not happy there?

(16:59):
What would you rather be doing?
And finding, you know, taking the leap to step out and actually look for something else
where you think you would be happy.
And I would definitely, I mean, from my standpoint view, I wouldn't step out of a job without
having another job lined up, so to speak.

(17:21):
But there are endless opportunities in this world.
I mean, the opportunities, especially in the roofing industry themselves, it's just, it's
just beyond amazing to me.
And I feel like the world is too big to stay somewhere where you're not happy.
Finding your groove also can come down to maybe you like your job.

(17:42):
Maybe you can't think of anything else you would rather be doing.
You have to find something that you can keep yourself motivated with.
So on the state of sales, I train horses, I ride horses, I rodeo professionally.
You know, I have something, like many people have something to go home to, like their family,
their children, their wives, their girlfriends.
You know, if I have a bad day at work, and I don't consider it work because I enjoy what

(18:06):
I do, but say I have a bad day at work, I come home, I'm tired from the objections,
my brain is, you know, busy minded.
I can go back and ride a horse and just have a relaxing time.
I think it comes down to kind of finding that the medium of am I truly tired?
Am I truly not happy where I'm at?

(18:27):
Or do I just need something for a few hours to blow off some sleep?
Okay, you still have bad days and everyone has that.
I do that.
However, I feel that people are just trying to avoid pain and anxiety and they just want
to, you know, live in this illusion 24 by 7 that if you feel that way, or if you feel

(18:49):
emptiness, then you need to step out of this.
However, no matter what you do, no matter which job you have, you will still have a
bad day and you will still feel that something is going wrong.
And when I am enjoying my job or my days, I'll still look at someone else and I'd
say that, okay, if I were them, I would be enjoying my life better.

(19:14):
I think it all comes down to how content you are within yourself and the gratitude you
have for the things that you have in your life.
Plus, finding your groove, I feel that if you can do something every single day for
the rest of your life, that is the thing you should pursue your career in, even if it's

(19:38):
making you less money right now.
But it can lead you towards having a fulfilled life.
What do you say?
I agree with that.
And my coach, Sean Poyer, he would love this conversation right now.
So I definitely think it comes down to it's an inner problem.
It would say it's an issue, not an issue.

(20:00):
And that's something Sean said a few days ago and that's something that really stuck
out to me because every person, I don't care who you are, every person has this fear of
am I enough?
Am I enough?
And I think that's where a lot of the issues from the inside out start to stem from because

(20:24):
am I enough can lead to, oh, I'm not enough.
So then I'm not enough can lead into, I can't do this anymore.
When you're in these certain areas of having a bad day, so to speak, don't dwell on the
feeling of the thing that so easily besets you.

(20:47):
Keep your mind on the feeling of basically winning, so to speak.
Keep your mind on how you feel when you had the best day, when you closed three out of
three jobs.
And it would be amazing how just keeping that mindset of, remember I throw the word mindset
out there very loosely, but you keep that mindset, that general mindset of enoughness

(21:13):
instead of scarcity because I feel like scarcity can take over very, very easily and it never
really leads to a good place.
I feel that human minds work best when you have this fur over you, hanging over you,
and you have this fear of something or when you are in a pressurized situation, that's

(21:33):
when you do the best work.
I think that could be a big motivation because you know there's a cloud over your head.
You know that you have to make a decision, but that can also lead back to the scarcity

(21:54):
because if your brain is constantly dwelling over this one thing that's hanging over your
head and it consumes you, pretty soon you're not going to be able to think of anything
else.
No matter which direction you take, no matter you turn left, turn right, go straight, that
cloud is still going to be there.

(22:16):
So it depends on how big the cloud is.
I don't know if that's the right terminology for it, but that can definitely lead to, yeah,
back to the scarcity.
For me anyhow, that's how it would work because I'm the type that if I have something weighing

(22:37):
on my mind, I will sit there and dwell on it until I get it taken care of.
Until I actually get it taken care of and get that fogginess from my brain, I really
can't focus and put my true potential, my true energy into what actually needs to be
done.
Okay, what I got from you is that you are saying that if you channelize your energies

(22:57):
and you know what to focus upon, you can handle anything.
And even if there's a cloud on your head, you can still focus on the solutions.
And what I feel is that the biggest skill someone can have in this decade or the next
is to know where to spend their energies.
And when you were saying about these clouds over your head, I was thinking that you are

(23:20):
into a family business and you must have seen your brother or your family when this landmark
roofing was starting out or when you were just growing.
Bad phases must have come as well.
How did you see your brother as a leader handling all of these things?

(23:41):
Because you know, in all these previous episodes I had, or even myself, I am a company owner.
Sometimes I cannot tell my team that I am facing this, I'm facing that, or I am down
as well because you have to kind of motivate your team and you have to just be the source
of strength for them.

(24:03):
But it was in your family and you must have seen your brother facing all of those hard
phases.
How was that experience for you and for him or for the company overall?
Yeah, so I think it was a very humbling experience, you know, seeing my brother growing up with
him and seeing him turn into a boss and then actually being a brother.

(24:28):
And one thing I truly appreciate, when I started selling for him, I don't even listen, I don't
care that I'm your sister, I want to be treated the way the rest of the Project Estimator
sales reps, whoever, I want to be treated the same way you would treat them.
I don't want to special treat my sister just because I'm your sister.
And seeing him navigate that path of decision making throughout the years, it was very humbling

(24:57):
because he's definitely morphed into one of those guys that thinking before he speaks,
like I said earlier, something I struggle with as well.
But transitioning from that brother mind frame to I'm your boss, this is how it's going to
be and actually give him props for being able to handle himself in that way and not allowing

(25:19):
his feelings to rule over the company.
Was there any time when the road did get tougher and when the stuff was not going so well and
like, who shows up in your family for your brother or for yourselves?
My turn, so it's probably our sales manager, Leroy, he's my brother-in-law, to have someone

(25:41):
there to pick you up and say, listen, we're in this as a team.
We're not in this as I'm better than you, I'm selling more than you.
If one rep or one person in the company is down, so to speak, in performance, anything
like that, to have that family-orientated vibe that everyone is there for you.

(26:04):
So yeah, for me, it would probably be my manager, Leroy, my coach, Chuck and Sean.
And for Perry, I'm assuming that it's his wife.
There's a certain extent where if your boss is having a bad day and then you know your
boss is having a really bad day, he does really well with bringing that vibe into the company

(26:27):
and holding us all and holding us accountable even on his worst of days.
That's one thing that I really look up to him for is when he's having a bad day, it's
just like any other day.
And I know him personally, he's my brother, I know him very well.
So I can usually pinpoint those days, but I feel like for the rest of the company, not

(26:50):
to brag or anything, I feel like they would have a lot harder time pinpointing that.
And actually, it's great to have such people around you because most people, they don't
like mixing family with business.
And I feel that it's wrong because if your family has people that you can blindly trust
and you have set boundaries for every relationship that, okay, once we are in the office, we

(27:15):
are no longer our family.
We have to deal it like a business and only then we can succeed.
It makes the job easier for you.
And ultimately, these are the family businesses that are that win in the longer run.
Yeah, I agree 100% and I think it all comes down to love.
If you truly have that bond there and you truly love that person, are you going to let

(27:41):
a job get in between you basically?
And like you said, it's the differentiating the personnel to the work industry.
So I'm going to go on a little rabbit trail here.
We are a family of six, three boys and three girls, and my three brothers, all three own
their own company.

(28:02):
So my one brother does a woodworking company.
My other brother owns a roofing company.
My other brother owns a roofing company.
And we're all in the same area.
And then of course, we have my dad who's still installing roofs as we speak.
So we often get asked once people figure out that these two larger companies in our area

(28:22):
were related and were related so closely, we often get asked like, how do you guys like
not fight?
How do you guys like, do you know that they sold that roof and you had a bit on this roof
too?
Like how does that jive?
And honestly, like I said, it comes down to love.
You have to learn how to just separate those separate.

(28:45):
And you know, when you get together to family gathering, don't be like, hi, I took that
roof away from you.
Like, no, we're all in this together.
And honestly, it's kind of amazing because for our family, I feel like it's honestly
brought us closer together as a family than driven us apart.
Okay.
I have a question for you that both of your brothers have a roofing company.

(29:06):
Do they have any kind of competition or anything between them as well?
Competition wise, I feel like there's a little bit of a competition there, but no.
So my one brother, we actually, he worked out of landmark roofing for us for about a
year just so he, you know, he was just starting his company and we wanted to support him there.

(29:27):
So we actually left him work out of our office and run his company out of our office.
And so there's, I feel like there's always going to be that little bit of competition
there to spur each other on.
Nothing, nothing that is like, I don't know how to say it, nothing that is like, like,
oh, I sold more than you this year.
There's never been anything like that.

(29:48):
That's the good thing actually, because at the end of the day, you have to realize that
everyone has their own journey.
I see most bosses and most business owners when someone from their company wants to open
their own company or wants to transition into their own business, they don't support them.
They even try to cut corners and they just want that, okay, I am here.

(30:13):
You just need to be here.
You can come here, but you cannot come there.
You cannot surpass me and you cannot go far higher from where I am.
And that feeling comes from a place of scarcity, as you said that, because I cannot accept
someone who is lower than, or let's just say it this way, that someone who is my subordinate

(30:37):
in my company having their own business and having a better life than me and accomplishing
things that I cannot do and I just can't see them achieving all of that.
So I just try to restrict them here.
Right.
Yeah, no.
I mean, honestly, even if one brother were to pass the other, we would clap each other

(30:58):
on the back and say, good job.
How did you do it?
Because we would like to raise our numbers like that.
And yeah, like you said, that leads back to the scarcity and inside issue because you
know that there's something that hindered, not hindered, but something that slowed the
company down that they were able to raise above you like that.

(31:22):
And I'm sure you would have these questions of how did it happen?
And then once that question arises, it just goes from there.
And it comes down to the goals that people have as well.
For example, I am hiring someone and he tells me that my goal is to earn like two million

(31:42):
per year.
And my company's goal is just half a million per year.
Now he is thinking far ahead of me.
There are two options for me now.
Either I work with him and I tell him, okay, I'm going to get you to that two million.
But here's my goal.
My goal is to get our company to five million.
Once we hit that, you are automatically going to your two million.

(32:05):
Or the other way is I just let him set free because I know that he has a bigger goal than
mine and I cannot help him achieve that anyway.
Speaking of that, one thing I have noticed is that roofing companies don't have sales
goal.
They do have like if you ask a roofing company owner, they will tell you that, okay, I'm

(32:26):
two million right now.
My goal is to get to five million or four million or three million this year.
I want to double my revenue.
But when you ask them how, they don't have any answer for that.
How do you set targets and goals for the year and how do you achieve them?
Yeah.
So we set target goals yearly, correct?

(32:48):
And how to achieve those is basically getting everyone on, working together as a team.
And you know, like last year, I'm not scared to admit it.
I missed my mark.
And you know, it's one of those things where you don't dwell on that.
You set a BHAG, which is your crazy goal, and you set your conservative goal.

(33:12):
You reach for that BHAG.
If you don't hit that BHAG, you still hit your conservative goal.
You're still winning.
You're not losing.
And it's, we actually try to break it down into weekly and monthly.
So the end of the month, if we know we hit that goal, you know, team bonding, things like that.
But if you're wondering how we do as far as lead sources, kind of knock doors on advertisements.

(33:37):
Word of mouth.
I think word of mouth is the best way to get leads in the industry.
Referrals.
I mean, I feel like you can pay so much in advertising nowadays, but it comes down to
the work you do and the people that you have on your team, like we discussed earlier.
And I actually agree with you because if you don't have that quality product, like you

(34:00):
just said, then it's actually wrong to put all the burden on sales reps and expecting
them to close deals if you don't have any solid things to back that up.
And if you don't have any solid service to back that up.
And what I see in most companies is that they hire sales reps, assign them territories,

(34:20):
and they just let them sink or swim and they feel that, okay, the sales rep will get me
the jobs.
However, you don't have any process.
You don't train them.
And at the end of the day, you don't have a reputation as well.
For example, if you do, if I go and knock a door and the homeowner actually haven't

(34:42):
even heard about me ever in their entire life.
They will like, I'll need more time to convince them or I'll be chasing that homeowner.
Compared to this, if I knock at a door and the homeowner has either have their neighbor
done roofs by me or they have seen my advertising on their mobile maybe, or they are like part

(35:04):
of my email community or anything that adds instant credibility and your conversions increase
so much.
Yeah, I definitely think you can get some companies like, it comes down to sales people
are viewed as sales people, right?
So they're viewed as they either make way too much money, B, they're lazy.

(35:27):
Okay.
Some of that is true.
Some of that is true.
Sales people can be very, very lazy.
And it comes down to as well as walking into that homeowner's house, whether you have future
connection or previous connection or past connection with them or not, it comes down

(35:48):
to having that system of walking into that homeowner's house and viewing them as a friend
and making them a friend and not just walking in there, oh, you're under sale.
We're going to install this roof.
I'm going to sell you and I'm going to walk out with a paycheck.
So like our process, my process is that once I get a lead, whether it's self-generated

(36:10):
or whether it's through the company, I'm going to make an initial connection with that homeowner
before they even see me.
If I'm going to give them a phone call, maybe just talk about the project, talk about the
day and just familiarize yourself with them.
The company has a lot to do with it.
The company a hundred percent has things to do with it.
But if you're in that company looking at it as you're on your own sales team, if that

(36:38):
makes sense, then that alone is going to hinder you in those areas.
Follow-ups have great power in them.
What would you suggest to someone or what follow-up process should someone follow in
roofing or what's working for you?
One hundred percent follow-ups easily get shoved out the back door because like I said,

(37:01):
those people are lazy.
They're too lazy to pick up the phone and make the phone call.
So what my process would be is around a day to two days after the initial inspection or
after the initial quoting, what I'm going to do is pick up the phone, give the homeowner
a phone call and just say, hey, do you have any questions on this?

(37:24):
Some of them in the appointment will even tell you and be honest with you, they have
other proposals coming in.
There's hundreds and hundreds of rebuttals on there.
But when you're in the initial appointment, you get the feeling that if I pressure this
homeowner, we're going to lose the sale altogether.
I would have a better chance of letting this homeowner rest, let them get the other proposal

(37:46):
because I have a great connection with them and following up with them.
Just picking up the phone and making a quick phone call, it takes what, five minutes, if
that, to do that.
I've seen my close rate increased by at least 3% on that.
Right after the appointment, the same day, I send out thank you cards, letting the homeowner

(38:13):
know that you are appreciated above them.
They're not just another roof to you, maybe another set of gutters.
It comes down to the motivation behind it and just actually getting yourself into that
routine of this is what I got to do.
I do a lot of block scheduling on my calendar.

(38:35):
If you have to block your day off for two hours just to get that done, if you write
things down, you're more apt to get it done.
But if you're not doing follow ups with your homeowners, give it a try.
It's not going to happen automatically, but you will see your close rates increase by
doing highly recommended.
How important do you feel is CRM in all of this process?

(38:58):
CRM, so we use AccuLink.
If I wouldn't have AccuLink, I would not.
I would use a standard calendar, but AccuLink, you can set tasks for yourself.
You can put a priority on those tasks, high or low.
Depending on what you set that priority at, you're going to get more notifications.
And keeping those homeowners separated for you, so you can say, this is a lead, this

(39:22):
is a prospect, I've already quoted, I've got to follow up.
And you can even set daily reminders for yourself.
Hey, you need to check in with this homeowner three days until you've quoted them.
If you're a high revenue company and you're putting on, so we put on 900 roofs this year.
If you're putting on well over 100 roofs a year, I definitely recommend a CRM system

(39:46):
to help you keep track because everybody gets busy, everybody forgets things.
And I've already seen some homeowners basically fall in the cracks, so to speak.
So it's not that you forget about that homeowner, but it slips your mind.
Yeah.
And you know, you can't be lazy.
You are right.
If you're not following up or if you are not reminding yourself of the opportunity, you

(40:08):
are letting someone else take that.
And in the industry, what's happening right now is that a lot of these things are actually
getting automated with AI and even the CRMs.
They are creating so many automations.
For example, I use GoaI level and you can even automate completely the followups for
20 days, 60 days, 90 days.

(40:30):
You are in constant touch with that opportunity.
All you have to do is to just take one action and you have to put that lead into that funnel
and that will automatically set everything up.
And you can't be lazy now because the opportunity is there.
You are right.
And if you don't do that, if you don't have a CRM and if you don't automate things, you

(40:55):
will ultimately lose to the competition or the companies who are doing so.
However, you said that you send those thank you notes to the homeowners.
I feel that a lot of actually comes down to customer service too, because the kind of
experience you create for your customers is the thing that everyone is looking for.

(41:16):
For example, I can prepare my best pitch.
I can have my best script.
I can read the brain of the homeowners like a magician.
I can still lose the sale because I failed to create that experience that leads them
in choosing me.
And that's what you create by when you care about those people, when you know that, okay,

(41:43):
if they are in connection with me, they should at least remember me that this was the person
or Leah was the person who showed up even if I did not hire her, but she is my trusted
advisor.
And if you are a trusted advisor, they would hire you.
Right.
Right.
Yeah.

(42:04):
You can walk into any home with all these big fancy terms and fancy words, but at the
end of the day, it comes down to what is setting you apart?
What is setting not only you, but what is setting your company apart that is going to
stick out to these homeowners that they're going to feel that comfortable with, comfortableness
with you that it basically kind of creates a little draw there because they have the

(42:26):
typical homeowner will get three proposals and all three of those reps are going to come
in and they're going to have a different system.
They're going to have a different product.
They're going to have a different way they do things.
But what are you as a person going to do when you step foot?
I mean, even as the time from the time that you get that lead, as I explained it, what

(42:47):
are you going to do different that sets you apart from all of these other contractors
out there that is going to make that homeowner feel that connection with you?
And honestly, I think I used to think that it started at the door of the home when you
not form that door for that, for that lead, but that's not true.
It comes down to the first time that you ever see that homeowner's name.

(43:11):
What's the first thought you have about that homeowner?
I like to do, I like to do my research on a home before I show up to it.
What's your first thought of that home?
This is a huge house.
I'm going to get the sale.
I'm going to be the top rep of the month.
You know, it just, it literally comes down to the first initial thought.
And because that first initial thought can lead you a long ways.

(43:35):
So one thing that a lot of reps complain about is small leads.
Say you get a gutter repair, right?
Are you thankful for that?
Or are you going to sit there?
I don't want to waste my time driving out to this home and selling our small repair
job, right?
You know, look at that job.

(43:56):
Like, oh, it's a small job, but if I drive out there and I create a difference, it's
a difference for not only me, but my company.
So it's a difference for landmark roughing.
And you end up not only getting a repair check, but you also get a referral from that homeowner.
So I think honestly, it all stems down to from the point of time that you see that lead,

(44:23):
the job description and the name of the homeowner.
And we are talking so much about, about the experience.
What is branding, marketing and sales to you?
Branding and marketing to me is the big thing.
The faces of your company is the first thing that people see.

(44:48):
So whether you're at a home show, you're on the internet, the pictures that you're posting,
you are seeing the initial people before they're even looking at your website, right?
Or like if they're on the website, so you have photos of your team on that website.
And for me, I don't have a time to put this into words, but for me, it comes down to what

(45:12):
impression do you want that branding to give?
You know, I feel that most marketing agencies or marketers itself, even they are in-house,
they have complicated branding and marketing so much that companies are in one month, they
are trying this and next month they are trying something else.
However, branding and marketing are the easiest thing that you can do as a company because

(45:37):
all it takes is that you just have to show up and you have to tell people that this is
who we are.
These are the things that we stand for.
These are the things that make us different from all the competition.
And if you still have any doubt or any obstacles in your way of working with us, this is our
guarantee or this is our offer that kicks out all these obstacles and you can simply

(46:01):
work with us.
This sums up all this branding and marketing and you just have to show it up in the right
way.
Now this instantly sets you apart as well and it all comes down.
Also, if you have this, you will automatically have the best website because you will automatically
have the best online presence too because back in your mind, you are focusing upon how

(46:25):
to craft the best experience and how to tell people that this is who we are and these are
the things that we stand for.
This is what made us start our company.
This is the problem that we are here to fix.
I agree with that and it's finding that what you believe in and sticking to that and not

(46:45):
constantly changing your marketing, not constantly changing your branding because that can get
very cultured into your homeowner as well.
Not even homeowners, I mean other business owners and they're like, okay, what's this?
And when they're like, wait, now they're offering this?
It's standing behind the words that you throw out.

(47:06):
That comes to social media as well because most roofing companies, they have been inactive
on social media for like four years, five years.
You will see them on Instagram or Facebook.
You will see that the last post passed for 2021 or 2022 probably and that leads people

(47:26):
into thinking that whether this company is in business right now or they have just collapsed.
How important do you feel is content creation and showing up because I see that you are
creating videos almost every single day.
Yeah, and I've been slacking recently because of the terrible weather here, but there's
no excuses for slacking.
But that's very important and it's not only about throwing out content that, look at this

(47:53):
big roof I completed, look at this big roof I completed.
It's about throwing out content that can actually be helpful to someone trying to make a decision
because you can Google the word roof and going down the line, you will see within the
first five minutes, 10 different opinions on roofing.

(48:14):
When it comes to someone that has absolutely no idea about a roofing system, it can get
very confusing very quickly.
The more of the content that you can throw out about your company or about your product
that familiarizes yourself with that product and giving the information on that product,

(48:35):
I definitely think that would be the way to go as far as throwing out content.
That's interesting because I agree with you.
Most people what they are doing is that they are just putting on their roof, okay, that
this is the 5,000 square feet roof I did.
This is the shingle that I used, but they are not actually highlighting the problems

(48:55):
that people are facing and they are not educating people.
That's what I saw in your videos as well.
That would be the lesson or advice you want to give to those roofers who are just posting
pictures of their roof without any context.
And to each their own, but if they're looking to grow their social media, most people know

(49:16):
what 5,000 square footages is, right?
But when it comes down to a roof, you start with all these roofing terms like square and
maybe like the name of the shingle, the brand of the shingle.
Instead of just throwing those light, loose terms out there, go into depth about it.
So it's like when I explain, when I'm in their home and I explain to a homeowner, your roof

(49:37):
is 50 square.
And they're like, and I'm like, so I explained to them, I take time to actually sit down
and explain to them, this is what a square footage is and breaking down, breaking down
the products that are, you're going to use.
So instead of throwing out there, you're going to use an Owens Corning shingle, break it
down to an Owens Corning shingle that is made with fiberglass and maybe throw in a little

(50:02):
bit of verbiage about what fiberglass is or how the Owens Corning fiberglass is made.
And actually putting some, putting some comfortability behind those terms because you know, it comes
to, when you click on a roofing company's website, it comes down to those loose terms,

(50:23):
excuse me.
I think that can kind of be used as a hook and sink line as well to get that homeowner
interested to start asking questions about those.
But like I said, it also comes down to once they get on there, you're going to set apart
from those other 10 companies that are on Google that have the same exact terms, no

(50:44):
matter what website they click.
And you know, if you have seen that episode with Andrew, he told me that he had a lady
who wanted her company to do her roof in Missouri.
And why that happened is I feel that she might have watched their video on Instagram or Facebook

(51:04):
and she considered, okay, that this is a very good company and I need them to do my roof.
And if you are creating valuable content, even if you are in Ohio and someone saves
you in Florida, the least you are doing is that you are providing value to that homeowner
so they can ask questions to their roofers or whatever contractor they are considering

(51:28):
for their roof.
That is what happens when you are putting out educational content.
Correct, correct.
And I love Andrew Aki trying to get into, give me some of his secrets on his social
media content because I'm still trying to catch up with him.
Yeah, no, the proof is in the pudding.
That is exactly what happens because if you are setting yourself apart so much, she is

(51:52):
in a different state and she is seeing social media content.
It just proves what that content can do for you because just by seeing his content alone,
she felt comfortable enough for him to come from a state and put on her roof.
And that is a prime example of what great content can do.

(52:18):
And one thing I really, really like about his content is that he actually, like I explained,
he breaks it down.
He doesn't just post videos on the Owens-Coring shingle or the Certainty shingle or the GIF
shingle.
He is posting content or video with those shingles and whether it's in the description

(52:39):
or whether it's in the video itself, he is explaining how these systems actually work.
It's the same with the vents that he uses.
You don't see a video posted or a picture posted about those vents that doesn't have
backing behind it.
Meaning, this is how it works.
This is why we use it.
I also read that in your bio because I didn't have much about you on the internet.

(53:05):
All I had was a post in which you had mentioned all your hobbies and I had to scroll down
through your profile to actually get to that post and do the research about you.
That's where I read that you are fond of books as well.
However, I also know that you like horses.
That's my personal hobby that we'll get back to that later on.

(53:27):
For now, let's just talk about books.
What kind of books do you read?
Boy, I am a huge mystery novel person.
I love anything to do like podcasts, books, I mean, Dateline.
I probably listen to way too much Dateline in my drive-train, but I'm a huge sucker for

(53:47):
those mystery novels.
Do you read any kind of business books as well?
I do.
I do.
I mix it up every once in a while.
One of my favorites is Emotional Intelligence 2.0.
I highly recommend that book, especially if you're in the sales industry.
Another book that I'm currently halfway through right now is Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon

(54:11):
Hill.
That is a very, very great book to read for just anybody.
As my coach Sean, he would say, it's not a book to be read, it's a book to be studied.
I never really understood what he meant by that until I started reading through it.
Then I'm like, yeah, that's definitely the point here.
What are the top three recommendations in terms of books that you would give to someone

(54:36):
who is in roofing sales or who is a sales rep?
Books.
So it would be Emotional Intelligence 2.0.
There is a book by Rodney Webb.
Hang on, I have it in my drawer here.
I'll just grab it real quick.
This is one of the first books when I started doing my sales training.

(55:00):
This is one of the first books that I ever read for sales.
It's very basic, but if you have no experience with sales at all, I highly recommend reading
this book.
Then yeah, number third on the line, even though I'm only halfway done with it, would
probably be Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill.

(55:20):
Then there was the, I'm going to throw in an extra one there for you because I really
like it.
It's a book by me and my 80 year old memory here.
Sometimes I wonder how I'm a sales rep.
There is a book, The Gap in the Game.
Capital gain.
The Gap and the Game.

(55:42):
Gap, okay.
Yes.
And kind of what we were talking about earlier is when you're in that scarcity mindset or
that scarcity place in your life and pulling yourself out of there and learning and experiencing
if you're actually living in the gap or if you're living in the game.
I actually have a recommendation or advice for you that even I didn't understand Think

(56:06):
and Grow Rich when I read it for once, you must read it for like two or three times to
actually gain the true sense or knowledge from that book because this book is amazing.
I do have a recommendation for you.
It's actually here.
This book, The Witchest Man in Babylon.
You will learn so much about financial.

(56:28):
I can even send this to you in our chat.
Yeah, if you want to send me the link or the...
Yeah, I am always open to reading because I feel like it's a good way to expand your
mind and learn new things.
And if you're not constantly learning, you're getting left behind.

(56:50):
You know, most of the times you are searching for some answers and you are not getting them
anywhere.
You just open the book and the page that you have to read that day has that answer for
you.
It's such a coincidence, but it happens to book readers.
It happens to me.
I don't know if it happens to you or not.
Yes, 100%.

(57:12):
I'm a Christian, so my go-to book is my Bible.
And especially when I'm searching for answers, all you have to do is take that initial step
and open that book and you'll be surprised at what you can find.
Yeah.
So let's just head towards the end of this interview.
I want to ask you, how can someone in sales make their day productive or what schedule

(57:36):
should someone follow in order to be the most productive in moving sales?
Like what time of the day should be the follow-up time?
What time of the day should they reach out to the new prospects or new homeowners?
And what time of the day they should focus on organizing files and all this CRM and stuff?

(57:56):
So the way I like to do it, I like to do my follow-ups either over lunch hour or any time
after 4 p.m.
I mean, I'll put a snail on it.
I usually don't like to contact someone at 8 p.m. because let's be real, it's Tuesday
night and you just got off work, you had a long day and you really don't want to talk

(58:17):
to the salesperson at 8 o'clock at night.
So I like to keep my follow-ups either between 11 and 12 a.m. to p.m. or 4 p.m. to maybe
like 6 p.m.
Also, this might come across a bit lazy, but I like to send text messages.
I like to ask the homeowner permission at the appointment.

(58:39):
I'm like, listen, I know phone calls are annoying, can I send you a text message?
And if they ghost me through text message, then the next day I will shoot them a phone
call, but I like to send out quick, simple, easy little text messages and 95% of the time
I get a text message back before I get a phone call back.
And if they are looking to move forward in that space, after they text you, they'll be

(59:05):
like, they'll invite you to actually call them.
They're like, oh yeah, we actually had a few more questions that arose, can you give us
a call?
So at that point, you can either reschedule a time to call them or reschedule a time to
actually go and initially revisit them.
And I find that if you catch them in those timeframes, they're not at work so they can

(59:26):
actually talk to you.
If they are at work, they're on their lunch break between 11 and 1, so they can talk to
you there.
And I find that the actual amount of phone calls that I get received and returned is
a lot better than calling someone during the middle of the day and leaving them a voicemail
and waiting for them to return their call because they're probably going to put your

(59:48):
voicemail in their trash bin.
So I like to run appointments.
So if we have a lead that comes into us through marketing, we schedule our leads for 9 a.m.,
11 a.m., 1 p.m., 3 p.m., and 5 p.m.
That would be our block.
So we're like a block schedule routine.

(01:00:09):
So I like to run those appointments, say I have run at 9 a.m., maybe I'll take out 11
a.m. so I can do my follow-ups.
If I have a lot of follow-ups to do, if I don't have a lot of follow-ups to do, I'll
keep that block open for the 11 a.m., run that at 11 a.m., and do my follow-ups in the

(01:00:29):
evening.
Now, if you're a company that is more of like a phone call close, you're going to need to
schedule probably both of those blocks in order to get all of your phone calls completed
and to have the most accurate response on them.
And it comes down to in between those appointments, other things that you have to get done.

(01:00:54):
I like to go to job sites and get drone footage or create content for social media.
So in between those appointments, I'm looking, okay, this install is happening here.
Which appointment is this closest to?
It all comes down to saving your time and saving your energy.

(01:01:14):
It's not all about doing it all on the outside.
You have to do it on the inside as well because you can run crazy from 6 a.m. to 6 p.m. at
night every day of the week and still not see your close rate increase.
I mean, it doesn't lead down to the close rate either.
I'm just talking from a sales perspective here.
I mean, even as a business owner, if your inside energy is not meeting your outside

(01:01:36):
energy and you're running around crazy all day, you're getting absolutely nothing done.
At the end of the day, you're going to get home and the only thing you're going to say
is, man, I'm tired.
Is this really worth it?
Yeah.
And the way I see this is that this is a way of procrastination as well because you are
spending your time in the activities that are not producing you any results all for

(01:01:57):
the sake of the satisfaction that you want to give to yourself that, okay, I have done
the work from 6 a.m. to 6 p.m. but still I didn't get any results.
And you don't want to focus on the fact that none of the work that you did can bring any
results because you have been just focusing in the wrong direction.
Correct.

(01:02:17):
And with the block scheduling, one thing that I found out is that you can easily weed out
the things that are not helping you, the things that are hindering you, the things that are
draining your energy, unnecessary things basically.
And with the block scheduling, when you have all that written down, it's easiest to pinpoint,
okay, this is where I went wrong on this.

(01:02:38):
I need to eliminate that or maybe push that to a different.
I've already seen some guys that block out Friday, like the whole day Friday and just
like make it their office day so to speak.
So they're in the office making phone calls, doing catch up paperwork, things like that.
And so it makes it a lot easier to conservatize that energy that's just kind of floating out

(01:03:04):
there with nothing to do.
So you're wasting it on things that either A, are wasting your time or B, not making
you money.
Okay.
I'm interested actually to know more about this block strategy because I didn't get it
to be honest.
But let's just say you have a hundred leads and you have seven days, would you walk me
through that?

(01:03:26):
How would you process these leads via this block strategy in the seven days?
You can increase the time span as well.
Okay.
So how does this actually work?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I hope you're using the number a hundred as just an example because personally you can
run a hundred leads in one week and survive that.

(01:03:46):
I'll just say ten.
So personally don't like to run more than two appointments a day.
On my busy days, I will run three leads a day.
And the reason why is because you're rushing from appointment to appointment.
And for me, it's when I'm initially at that appointment, I'm thinking about my next one

(01:04:06):
because I see I'm running out of time.
So I like to run a nine, a twelve or a one and then a three.
So depending on how close those leads are.
So for block schedule, here's what I do.
6 a.m. I'm going to get up.

(01:04:26):
All right.
Seven, I'm going to work out.
All right.
This is just a sample.
You can do whatever you want to do.
Seven, I'm going to work out.
By eight o'clock, I know that I'm going to have to have breakfast, be getting ready,
make sure my phone's charged, make sure my tablet's charged, get all my things around,
get in the car by eight thirty.

(01:04:46):
None the latest, depending on where the lead is driving to my appointment.
Nine a.m. maybe I'm there for an hour.
Maybe I'm there for two hours.
You never really know until you get there.
And so after that, say I leave the house by hopefully 11 a.m. the latest.
I'm going to have on my calendar, I'm going to go get some lunch.

(01:05:07):
If I get lunch, I'm going to have a few minutes that I can make a few phone calls if I have
to.
Maybe I have some phone some emails to respond to.
Maybe I have to go here and pick something up for my one one p.m. appointment.
So no later than 1230, I know that I'm going to have to be back on the road for my next
appointment.
And I just find it helps me way more.

(01:05:31):
If I write those things out, I can't fall into this lazy, productive state of in between
my 11 and my one o'clock, I'm going to get some lunch and I'm still sitting there and
do absolutely nothing.
And once you actually get into the routine of it, you actually find that at the end of
it and between the appointments.

(01:05:51):
You know, it doesn't happen every day, but you actually have some free time that you
can use that free time to essentially do what you want to do.
I like to maybe relax for a couple of minutes and reset my mind frames in the next appointment.
And I just find the block scheduling is a tremendous help to me.
It might seem weird, but actually writing it down helps your brain focus on it more.

(01:06:17):
Like I said, you're not falling back into that negative state of doing absolutely nothing.
And how do you see the use of AI into all of this?
Like are you using any AI apps or something like that into your process as well?
Yeah.
So I honestly think that AI can change this industry majorly.
Even the use of technology in this industry is just the things that we can do to provide

(01:06:41):
these home orders with certain videos, certain pictures, certain games, certain apps, whatnot.
It's just that thing.
It's truly amazing.
I do use chat.gvp for my emails.
It helps me respond to my emails a whole lot faster.
Home orders seem to have a better sense of understanding.
It's fresh, it's clean, so to speak.
So once again, that sets you apart.

(01:07:02):
I mean, you don't want to be professional about it, but you don't want to use these,
like I said, loose roofing terms that home orders can't understand.
So it definitely helps break that down quite a bit.
And especially for, I've noticed a huge turnaround in responses from insurance companies on
claims with using chat.gpt.

(01:07:25):
And I think the options with that is unlimited.
Okay.
Tell me more about that.
Like how would that turnaround increase?
I'm guessing that you are saying that the turnaround gets higher when you are using
chat.gpt in your claims, right?
Yes.
Yes.
So by using chat.gpt with my claims, when the insurance company responds to you.

(01:07:49):
So basically insurance companies have no idea about a roof whatsoever.
Those desk adjusters, they're just there for the numbers.
And by using chat.gpt to break down the terms and verbiage, so to speak, it can transfer
our verbiage into their verbiage.
So they can actually get a sense of understanding of what we're talking about.

(01:08:11):
And it's easier for them to basically pay out, so to speak, when they can get a sense
of understanding and you're not just kind of running after them with this.
And it's kind of like, for an example, like doing a repair test for an insurance company.
They know what a repair test is, but they have no idea on how the shingle actually functions

(01:08:36):
and work.
So putting our verbiage of the way the shingle functions into chat.gpt and telling, hey,
change this verbiage over to insurance verbiage and it'll do that for you.
And you send that back to them and they can actually understand it.
It's been, I've seen it work both ways on one of my claims, but I highly recommend using

(01:09:00):
it to respond.
That's a great way actually, because they understand this.
It can do so much for the homeowners.
Correct.
Correct.
It does, it does a lot for the homeowners.
Okay.
What brought you to horses?
Yeah, so what actually brought me to horses and I can talk about this all day.

(01:09:21):
So I grew up riding horses, pony.
I had a childhood pony and I never grew out of the face.
Everybody told me, you'll grow out of it.
You'll grow out of it.
It's fine.
I guess out of siblings, I am the only one that got stuck with it and kind of stuck with
it, so to speak.
And my brother, he had a girlfriend and she was into barrel racing and she was like, oh,

(01:09:46):
you ride horses.
She's like, do you barrel race?
I'm like, no, I've never done it before.
She's like, let's buy you a barrel racing horse.
So I went out and I bought you a barrel racing horse and that was, I think I was 12, 11 when
I bought my first barrel racing horse.
And I started barrel racing for myself and it's something that I highly enjoyed.
And now I kind of got my own little business out of it.

(01:10:09):
I rodeo professionally and I train horses, barrel horses preferably, but I will train
all types of horses for other individuals.
And it's just something that I've always enjoyed doing.
It's kind of like a roof.
You break that roof down that has a problem and you fix it and then you build it up and
it's something completely new.
And it's the same with the horse.

(01:10:30):
I get some of these horses in that they just, they've never even been touched before or
maybe they have a problem that their homeowners or their owners just can't fix.
And it's the reward to me of being able to break that down and find the solution to the
problem and then taking that horse and making it into something.

(01:10:52):
And then the owners take it back and it starts winning in the industry.
It's just, it's very rewarding and it's just something that I've always really enjoyed
doing.
How do you find horses as animals?
Like how do they behave differently?
Because I haven't had them.
I feel so affectionate about horses that I plan to get them one day in my life, but I

(01:11:18):
just have so much love for them.
As I don't have them right now, I want to know what makes them different from other
animals.
What really sets the horse apart for me from other animals is their willingness.
For them to give their complete trust to you and they weren't born, God didn't create

(01:11:38):
them for us to ride, to work, to do what we do with them.
And their willingness to, I mean, a 2,500 pound animal to essentially like I train mine
to ride with leg pressure, leg cues and essentially for them to surrender their complete trust
to you that they allow you to control them with your feet.

(01:12:03):
And it's just that, that willingness to learn to me is just incredible.
And they're much like humans actually because they, their own personality.
You rarely find one horse that needs to be trained the way the next horse needs to be
because it's hard to explain, but so if you're training a horse, you got to approach that

(01:12:27):
horse a different way than the next one, just like you need to approach that homeowner a
different way to the next one because their personalities are different and the way that
they are used to things and the way that their brain is structured works a different way
than the previous one.
And it's just something that I continue to learn about it just like I continue to learn

(01:12:49):
in sales.
It's almost the same with the homeowner industry.
It's finding what that homeowner needs and what works for that homeowner and providing
it for them.
The same when training a horse, you know, one horse may need a little bit more pressure
for training than the other one.
And you know, the reason I am bringing your hobbies into the conversation is because I

(01:13:09):
feel that the younger generation now, you are in your twenties, I'm in your twenties.
We are facing so much anxiety, depression and all these issues that are that shouldn't
be there.
And all of this is because when someone tries to work, they shift all their focus to work

(01:13:30):
and they forget having a personal life and hobbies and a space where they can just forget
everything and relax.
And this imbalance creates all those feelings and from a last question to you, how important
do you feel is the role of having a hobby like this in your life and how it strengthens

(01:13:56):
you or empowers you deal with the challenges because at times you don't have anyone around
you but you have your horses or whatever hobby you have and when you give your time to that
hobby or that activity, it immediately takes your mind off from all the problems that you

(01:14:17):
are having.
That's what I personally feel.
Say, how would you describe that having a hobby like this or having something that can
shift your focus for some time and can give you time to relax or just take some time off
how important this is in someone's life?

(01:14:38):
Yeah, I think it's really, really important because you can, like our discussion we had
earlier, you've got to have something to release that pinup energy because that pinup
energy will stay in your mind.
Once you get in that scarcity mindset and you have no way to physically just get rid

(01:15:04):
of it, it's like to the people that work out, like I don't do it consistently, I probably
should.
How you feel afterwards, you feel refreshed, you feel renewed and if you don't have something
that you can essentially fall back on and you put all of your time and all of your energy
into this one thing, we're human, like I said, we're all going to fail eventually.

(01:15:27):
Once your brain gets to that point where everything becomes fogging, everything's, you're tired,
you're worn out, to have something to fall back on, to just take your mind off of that
and to regroup and to refocus and coming back in with that fresh thinking of like, okay,
it's not so bad once I blew some steam off, like I can think about it clearly now.

(01:15:51):
And so if you work your life away and you don't have something to fall back on, I really
recommend that you find something that you truly enjoy doing, that you can truly realize
and just basically essentially be yourself as a person while doing it for that reason
so you can just unwind.
Any signing of notes or advice that you would like to give to anyone who's listening or

(01:16:16):
watching to this episode?
Yeah, never quit learning because I feel like you can cap yourself where you're at if you
try to quit learning because you can consider yourself an expert in the industry, but everything's
constantly changing, especially in the world nowadays.

(01:16:39):
And the more you learn, the more knowledge you get.
And without knowledge, frustration sets in.
I learned that from a very well-known horse trainer that I know.
And it makes sense because once you get frustrated, if you truly sit back and think about it,
you are in a place in your life where you don't really know what to do and you don't

(01:17:00):
have any sense of how to handle that, so to speak.
So yeah, never quit learning.
Always have an open mind and never be scared to reach out to anyone.
There are plenty of people out there.
I know the world to me is very intimidating, but there are always people out there that
are willing and ready to help you if you just ask for it.

(01:17:20):
Thank you so much for your time, Neha.
It was great having you on the show.
Yeah, of course.
I really enjoyed being here.
Thank you.