Empowering Family Wellness: Personalized Health, Nutrition, and Natural Oral Care with Katie Wells

Join us as we sit down with Katie Wells, the charismatic founder of Wellness Mama, to unpack her transformative health journey. Driven by the shocking realization that chronic diseases might shorten the life expectancy of the next generation, Katie shares how her experiences, including her own battle with Hashimoto's disease, led her to explore the profound impacts of diet and lifestyle. Discover how she views the body as a unique "chemistry lab," advocating for personalized health approaches that move beyond conventional medical prescriptions.

Our conversation ventures into the art of balancing motherhood with professional ambitions, offering practical strategies for moms to tackle the chaos of daily life. Katie shares her insights on implementing lifestyle changes one step at a time and the importance of involving family members in decision-making. By drawing parallels between managing a household and running a business, she reveals how intentional management and systems can alleviate stress, leading to a more fulfilling life.

In this enlightening episode, we also explore the significance of empowering children and promoting family wellness through independence and responsibility. Katie discusses the intricate connection between oral health and overall wellness, emphasizing the body's natural healing processes. From the benefits of nutrient-dense foods and spending time outdoors to the creation of her https://wellnesse.com/ line of natural oral care products, Katie offers invaluable guidance for families seeking to enhance their well-being.

To learn more about holistic dentistry, check out Dr. Carver's website:

http://carverfamilydentistry.com

To contact Dr. Carver directly, email her at [e-mail].

Want to talk with someone at Dr. Carver's office?  Call her practice: 413-663-7372

Reverse Gum Disease In 6 Weeks! With Dr. Rachaele Carver Online Course!

Learn more about here: https://reversegumdiseaseinsixweeks.info/optinpage

Disclaimer: This podcast is for educational purposes only. Information discussed is not intended for diagnosis, curing, or prevention of any disease and is not intended to replace advice given by a licensed healthcare practitioner. Before using any products mentioned or attempting methods discussed, please speak with a licensed healthcare provider. This podcast disclaims responsibility from any possible adverse reactions associated with products or methods discussed. Opinions from guests are their own, and this podcast does not condone or endorse opinions made by guests. We do not provide guarantees about the guests' qualifications or credibility. This podcast and its guests may have direct or indirect financial interests associated with products mentioned.

Episode Transcript

Dr. Carver (00:00):
Hello everybody, welcome back to another episode
of the Root of the Matter.
I'm your host, dr Rachel Carver, and I am very excited today to
have somebody I've beenfollowing for probably over 10
years and I was very excited.
She's a very busy lady.
This is Katie Wells, who isfounder of Wellness Mama and
creator of wellnesscom.

(00:21):
So we'll give you all thosegood links at the end and
there's so much more to her, butyou get to go to her website
after this and just look at allthe amazing content.
She was actually named one ofthe top 100 most influential
people in health and wellness,so that's quite an accolade.
That's awesome Congratulationsand one of the reasons I wanted

(00:42):
Katie on.
She's a big proponent in oralhealth.
She has some great products.
She has tons of blogs about howshe was able to reverse some
decay.
She's also a mom of six, so onething I'm really hoping that
she's going to share with ustoday is how does she make it
all work?
So many of us know we shouldeat this and we should exercise

(01:03):
and we should, but we have crazybusy lives.
So how can somebody with sixchildren run this amazing
business and do all the weactually had to?
This is like our third attemptbecause she's so busy.
She's also a doula.
I don't know how you have timeto help with that, with all the
other stuff you're doing.
But welcome, katie, and tell usa little bit about your story

(01:24):
and how you got into health andwellness to begin with.

Katie Wells (01:27):
Oh, thank you so much for having me and yes, it's
been quite the ride to finallyget to have this conversation.
I'm glad we finally get toconnect and I'll give you the
short version and then elaborateon any direction.
That's helpful.
But basically, when my firstson was born, two things lined
up perfectly that led to thisjourney that's now become
Wellness Mama.
The first was that at hissix-week follow-up appointment,

(01:48):
I was sitting in the doctor'soffice and I was waiting for the
doctor, as one often does.
And I read and I believe it wasTime Magazine that for the
first time in two centuries, thecurrent generation of American
children would have a shorterlife expectancy than their
parents.
And this article went on todetail the rise of chronic
disease that we're seeing playout, of course, in society the

(02:08):
rise in heart disease andcancers and autoimmunity and
diabetes.
And just holding this perfectbaby, I decided in that moment
that wasn't what I wanted forhim or for any child, that our
children deserved better, and Ihad no idea how.
But I wanted to be part ofhelping to reverse that trend.
So, with the background injournalism, I started turning to
the research side and,serendipitously, at the same

(02:31):
time, I was starting toexperience some strange health
symptoms which ended up becomingquite the journey of its own,
through many doctors andspecialists, being told at first
that my labs were normal andthose are all normal postpartum
things.
At first my labs were normaland those are all normal
postpartum things, and it takingmany years and many doctors to
finally get the word Hashimoto'sgiven to me, and then many
years beyond that to releasethat word and no longer have it.

(02:54):
But those two things lined upperfectly, both the motivation
of my own health struggles andunderstanding what our kids'
generation is going to face.
And looking back.
It's funny because until Istarted researching it I had
never considered really that ourdiet and our lifestyle impacted
us beyond the things we hearabout in the mainstream the

(03:14):
calories and macros and if yougain weight or not.
And it was like I discoveredthis whole additional level of
research in this whole new worldthat it's funny to think now.
I had never considered I thinkof a quote from my friend JJ
that our body is not a bankaccount, it's a chemistry lab

(03:34):
and I just started to finallyunderstand the chemistry of that
.
And now we even have layersbeyond that of understanding
genetics and epigenetics and howthose factors come into play,
and I think that's been one ofmy lessons the last few years
especially is that health reallyis so individual and often in
the medical world you hearthings get dismissed if they're
not double-blind,placebo-controlled studies.
But what I've realized is ifyou're doing an n of one study
and the n is you, that'sactually the most valuable

(03:56):
research you can ever do, and Ibelieve now that every doctor
and expert and practitioner outthere, they have found,
hopefully, what works for themand we can something.
There's always something tolearn from every single person
we meet, but the important thingto learn is the framework and
the method, not the exactprescriptive plan, because it's
so different for each of us.
But I think when we can gainthat little bit of insight from

(04:19):
everything we're exposed to anddo the work of becoming our own
end of one study, that's wherethe magic happens.

Dr. Carver (04:26):
I absolutely love that you just said this was
right before this, I was filmingmy week one for my new course
of how to reverse gum diseaseand I said exactly that right,
we're going to give a frameworkof diet and all these habits,
but I'm trying to traineverybody with this podcast, too
is to create the awareness, isto create something where you
feel like you can be your ownbest doctor, because, as you

(04:46):
said, nobody knows your bodylike you do, right, and we're
always trying to pigeonholepeople into this specific hole.
You have these symptoms, so youhave that.
We're going to label you withthis, or you don't fit those
symptoms, so that can't behappening to you.
Right, and unfortunately,that's the framework of the
conventional medical systemtoday.
So that's I love how you saidthat we have to.
Yeah, we get the framework, wecan get all the information, but

(05:09):
then you have to be your ownlittle chemistry lab, right?
You have to experiment onyourself, figuring out what
works best for you.
And I think that's especiallytricky when we talk about diet,
right, because we have there'sthe paleo and the keto and the
carnivore, and there's somepeople who are just adamant
about one way has to work foreverybody.
But we all know that that's nottrue and that can be

(05:30):
challenging.
When you have a family of myfamily's four, you have a family
of eight, right, and that's whyI was like one of my favorite
things of Katie's those of youwho are watching on YouTube my
wellness mama cookbook.
I think this is 10 years old.
You can see I've got foodstains all over it.
All my little thing and weactually made one of our
favorite recipes is herMongolian beef.
So I love.

(05:52):
She's saying they love thechicken fajitas too.
My kids love to go out to eat.
When you're eating in arestaurant they're using bad
oils, you don't know where thechicken's coming from, and my
kids are super picky becausethey've grown up with a mom
who's so on them about food allthe time and all they want to do
is eat the junky takeout food.
So when I made your first timeand it was and it's in a crock

(06:12):
pot, so I love that for allthose of us who are so busy, row
it in the morning and boom,when you get home it's done and
my kids love it.
And even that, my youngerdaughter now decides she hates
all beef but she loves Mongolianbeef made with the coconut oils
and everything, and it'sactually very fast and easy to
make too.
So I've been following Katie fora very long time because she

(06:33):
does such good work.
So tell us how does it work?
You obviously understand we'reall a little different.
When you have such a big family, how do you balance your
working with a job and thenbeing able to cook these healthy
meals?
Is it doing the prep work aheadof time?
Like, maybe you can give ussome pointers about how we can?
Everything that we learn rightin a podcast or reading or

(06:54):
whatever, how can we more easilyinstitute it into our family
lives?

Katie Wells (07:00):
I love that question and also just to echo
briefly something that you said.
People are probably tired ofhearing me say this on my
podcast at this point, butanytime I get the chance, I
remind people that at the end ofthe day, we are each our own
primary health care providersand it sounds like you said
something very similar in whatyou were recording, and I just
think that's an importantmindset shift to start from,
because when we're in thedriver's seat of our own health,

(07:22):
then we have the ability toaffect change in our own health.
We have the ability to changethe factors that are going to
have the biggest ROI for us whenit comes to our own health and,
as moms, to our family's health, and until they're able to take
that responsibility, we aretheir primary health care
provider.
And that doesn't mean we don'twork with practitioners, who can
be really important partners onthat journey.
But at the end of the day, thatownership has to stay with us

(07:50):
in order for us to see positivechange.
And I think you just touched onwhat really is the impactful
part of health changes, which isthe application.
How do you actually make thechanges?
Because, like you said, a lotof us know all the things we
should be doing and we'reshooting all over ourselves and
then as moms, we feel guiltywhen we don't do all the things
we know we should be doing.
I think, as a little bit of anaside anytime in life we see the
word should show up over andover.
That's a great place to examine, because that's often telling

(08:12):
us something where we haveresistance or we have something
inner going on that we can workon.
But I think the practicalityside is an important point,
especially for moms, becausewe're the ones often in the
driver of all of actuallyimplementing all of those
changes and keeping up with theemotional labor of making sure
those things happen.
And I think there is amulti-prong approach to this.

(08:32):
Like you said, we're not we'rein no lack of information.
We are certainly in the erawhere all information is
available at our fingertips, tothe point that I think that now
becomes the difficult hurdle toovercome because we have so much
information thrown at us allday long.
I know for me in the beginningone thing that was really
helpful was only letting myselffocus on one thing at a time
until that became a habit.

(08:54):
I think often we can burn outand let go of everything when we
try to do a complete lifechange overnight, and that's
counterproductive long-term.
So I would say, as you learn,make a list of all the things
you eventually want to implementin your life, but only let
yourself do one at a time thatkeeps the motivation strong,
because then you have morethings to look forward to that

(09:14):
you're going to add in but youdon't get overwhelmed in the
short term.
I also think when we're talkingabout our family situation,
getting our family involved in away that lets them have choice
as well is really important,because often the emotional
exhaustion will come from if wefeel like we're fighting not
just all of the things we'refacing in our environment, but
all of the people in ourenvironment in actually

(09:35):
implementing those changes.
So I think with kids it'simportant to trust that they are
incredibly capable ofunderstanding things and give
them the respect of explainingand giving them education around
it and, as much as possible,letting them be involved in the
choice and moving in thatdirection.
With spouses and partners.
It's a little more complicatedbecause they are adults and I

(09:56):
know early on when I waslearning this, my husband at the
time was not on board with someof this stuff and I had to
learn that he was an infiniteautonomous being, just like my
children were, and an adult, andall I could do was make the
changes myself and respect hisability to his choice to do that
or not.
And over time, to his credit,he did come around on a lot of
those things.
But I think had I doubled downand made that the hill I was

(10:19):
willing to die on, it would haveprobably taken him actually
longer to get there on his ownbecause it wouldn't have been
his choice.
And then I think we get to thepoint of the practical
implementation, and moms, Ibelieve, are some of the busiest
people on the planet.
I also believe that moms are anabsolute force of nature with

(10:39):
incredible power to reversethose trends that I talked about
in the beginning, because wecontrol the large majority of
purchasing power, we also arethe ones hands-on making the
meals and we're the oneseducating the next generation.
So we have tremendous powerthere.
But our limited resource is ourtime, and so I know that's
where many moms where theexhaustion happens or the
overwhelm or the mom guilt.
And so I think it's tart fromcoming from a place of doing the

(11:03):
best you can with what you havewas where you are, and not
guilting yourself when that'snot perfect, not letting perfect
become the enemy of the good.
But I think there's somestrategies that can really help.
And about 10 years ago I got toa point where I probably almost
had a nervous breakdown.
I was so stressed with all thekids being young, with trying to
run business, and I got to apoint where I almost deleted

(11:24):
Wellness Mama, because I waslike this is not sustainable.
I cannot continue with all ofthese plates in the air.
Something's going to break andit's not going to be my family,
so it's going to be work.
And then I realized, wait aminute, work is not what's
stressing me out.
So why am I so stressed in allthe stuff I'm doing at home but
not in business?
And I realized it was because Iwas running business with

(11:46):
intention, with systems, I hadplans, I knew what the KPIs were
, I knew what I was movingtoward and I let those things
happen on the schedule that Iknew would work, rather than
trying to do them all at onetime, whereas at home I was
trying to manage the emotionallabor for eight people schedules
, meals, sleep, everything in myhead and so I had 90 open loops

(12:07):
open at any given time and itwas the mental load of it was
actually where the exhaustionwas coming from, not the getting
things done.
Actually getting things donefelt fulfilling and that was
actually a source of joy.
And so I learned to take someof the things I had learned in
business and to apply them to myhome life and start in a sense,
not rigidly, but running myhouse like I would run a

(12:27):
business, becoming the CEO ofthe home and implementing
systems that helped solve forthat variable of less mental
load and less stress.
And that's things like wetalked about.
There's a lot of geneticdifference among people, but
there also are a lot ofsimilarities in the human animal
.
We have basic needs for enoughkey nutrients, protein.
We have needs for sunlight, forrest, for hydration.

(12:48):
So I could build from thethings I knew all of us would
need and then specialize basedon each child or each person and
what they specifically needed.
So I implemented a strategy ofbatch cooking.
You mentioned the Mongolianbeef.
I do a lot of slow cooker mealsor instant pot meals, things
where I can set it and forget it, but it was really the planning
aspect that reduced my mentalstress and allowed me to be much

(13:10):
more productive in my work lifeand my home life and a lot less
stress.
I think, as moms, anytime, wecan reduce that stress load at
version of ourselves that hassuch positive ripples into the
whole family, because I believemoms set the nervous system tone
for the household.
So it's not selfish to takecare of yourself.
It's not selfish to prioritizethe things that are going to

(13:30):
reduce your stress, because youshow up better as a person, as a
mom, as a partner, when you'reable to do that.
And the cool thing was it reallywas simple strategy.
So like batch cooking twice aweek meant I was cooking way
less the other days.
It also meant that there wasalways protein pre-made, so if
the kids got hungry I got lessquestions about what can I eat,

(13:50):
can I have a snack?
They always had high nutrientbooze available that they could
get, so that reduced it.
When the kids were little, itwas even little strategies like
moving non-breakable dishes to abottom cabinet so they could
reach it, so they didn't have toask me every time they needed
water or a plate.
It was things like creatingjust a simple schedule for the
house and knowing when thelaundry was going to get done.

(14:13):
So it wasn't an open loop in mymind of when is the laundry
going to get done.
It was ordering little beadcontainers from Amazon and
putting everybody's supplementsin those with names on them and
keeping them in a drawer in thekitchen so everybody could get
their own supplements.
I wasn't doing the emotionallabor of that every day, I was
doing it once a month, and sothose little strategies over
time freed up so much of mybandwidth.

(14:35):
And then I think another area,especially for moms, that's
important to talk about ismaking sure our family also gets
both the choice and theemotional responsibility for
their own health, and very youngkids obviously cannot take full
responsibility for this, but Ibelieve this is a slow and
gradual handoff throughout theirchildhood.
That can happen actually muchearlier than we often think.

(14:55):
We don't have to wait till ourchildren are 18 and they're
adults before they can haveownership and choice of their
own health if they understandwhy they're doing those things.
So one of my only sort ofnon-negotiable parenting rules
is that I won't do anything formy kids once they're capable of
doing it themselves Outside ofthings like I will braid my
daughter's hair for fun, becauseI love spending time with them.

(15:16):
But once they're capable ofdoing things, it no longer needs
to be my emotional labor.
It needs to be there so thatthey actually learn that
responsibility and can feel theownership and the fulfillment of
having done those things whichmeant with six kids.
Once they were capable of doingtheir own laundry, that became
no longer my responsibility,that became their responsibility
.
They have a kitchen system theyactually created where they

(15:39):
clean the kitchen every singleday and a schedule.
But who does what meal?
They have their own sort ofbidding economy and IOU system
to make sure it happens.
But that's no longer myemotional labor.
I don't even remember the lasttime I did dishes, but I think
it's like that mindset shiftwhich comes from first
respecting that they areinfinite, autonomous humans and
that they are incredibly capable, and not taking that emotional

(16:01):
labor for them, and then alsomaking sure we're moving as a
family culture toward a commongoal.
Not I'm carrying everyonetoward this goal and I'm
responsible for it, but we'removing together as a team to
this outcome that we want.

Dr. Carver (16:16):
This is amazing, and I hope everybody goes back and
just listens to the last fewminutes, because everything that
you said was absolutelyincredible.
So it's not as simple as okay,just write out your meals for
the week and do this and that.
What I love, that you describedand where I made the mistakes
with my kids, was always tryingto control, trying to control

(16:37):
everything and not giving themthat sense of choice.
And over the years I've learnedthat, through lots of therapy
and all sorts of stuff, is justlike you said these children are
their own autonomous beings andour role is to help them become
those independent beings, right, and to know that they have.
Just like we're saying, youhave to be your own best doctor.
You have to be so giving themthat confidence, right, that

(17:02):
they develop that confidencewhen you have confidence in them
, right, when they know thatthey have a choice, and I think
this is so important.
When you also said about themom's nervous system, I see this
all the time and I kept seeingI have a lot of moms who
consider themselves moreholistic and they want to come
and they just don't understandwhy their kids have so much, so

(17:22):
many cavities and what's goingon and you see the moms and
their stress level and I waslike the kid is totally because,
you're right, we set thatemotional nervous system tone
from day one.
So, me being more type A and Iwas like whoa.
I see now that my response iscreating the stress in the
children or it's causing nervoussystem dysregulation and, as we

(17:45):
know, when that nervous systemdysregulated you could feed your
kids the healthiest meals onthe planet but if they can't
digest it, if they're in thatsympathetic nervous system all
the time, it doesn't matter whatyou feed them.
So this is what I've realizedover the last 13 years too is
really is like we gotta start atthat nervous system and as a

(18:08):
mom, like you said, it is fromday one, just like the whole
cuddling and that snuggling andthe touch.
That's what makes kids feelsecure and safe.
And then again, how stressed weare.
Kids are incredibly intuitivebeings, absolutely incredible,
and they you don't have to sayanything, they can sense.
My kids are both empaths too,especially my older daughter,
and I don't even have to sayanything.

(18:28):
She knows what I'm thinking andfeeling and even when I'm
trying to hide it from her, ifI'm disappointed or something, I
don't even have to say anything.
She already knows that becauseshe can feel it and I'm like so
I think that's a reallyimportant point that I want
people to take away with is thatwe always, as moms, with that
mom guilt, we're always tryingto take care of them, but we are
not doing a good job if wedon't take care of them.
So it is not selfish to takecare of ourselves and to get our

(18:51):
own nervous systems as balancedas possible.
So I think that's amazing.
And then I love what you saidabout giving them that
responsibility.
We have chore charts in ourhouse and that's what I, like
you said too, is okay.
On Tuesdays, my older daughterdoes the laundry right,
thursdays, my younger daughterand having them.
This is your day, and so youcannot no longer complain if the

(19:12):
other day my daughter wasyelling at me because she
couldn't find her soccer jerseyand it was my fault because I
like to go in there and cleantheir rooms, and I said that
wasn't my responsibility.
You've got to know, but I'm notas good as you are and it just
gives me some more power to belike all right, I got to stick
to it.
They're not getting any younger, they only have a few more
years left in high school.
So I love what you say thatbecause I think that's really

(19:35):
true too.
Why we get so stressed out is itdoes it comes from the
emotional and the overthinking.
We're all busy, so it's notnecessarily the busyness and how
much we have to accomplish, butit's the way we're thinking
about that stuff.
So that's so awesome when youtake that mental, emotional kind
of stress off it to have thefamily work as a team.

(19:57):
That's the other thing.
We know that one major part ofhealth is community, right, the
more community that we have, thehealthier we are.
I've been telling my kids a lotit's not all about money,
certainly doesn't make you happy, it's helpful, it can create
some comfort, but it's reallythat connection with others and
that's what I've been trying toteach my kids.

(20:17):
It's the quality ofrelationships that you make with
people.
I think is really whatunderlies happiness.
And it's funny because I justheard a Mel Robbins podcast and
she was saying the same thing.
I was like, ah, I knew it.
Yes, and again, that wholemental.
When we're in our own mentalspace, we don't have the
capacity to create thoserelationships.
So this is absolutely amazingand again, everybody re-listened

(20:41):
to everything she said becauseit was incredibly valuable.
So let's switch gears a littlebit and talk about some more
health stuff.
So you have your own kind ofwellness company where you have
some a lot of nice productsthere, and tell me the story
about how you I think it waslike a blog post that you talked
about reversing a cavity and itgot so much, so many followers

(21:04):
and so many people askingquestions.
So maybe tell us a little bitabout how you understand oral
health to be related to diet,nutrition and all the other good
stuff.

Katie Wells (21:15):
Absolutely, and just to build on what you said
too, before I go into oralhealth, I think you're so right.
Community my friend Lauren sayshumans are nutrients, and I
think we're all a little bitdeficient in that one.
And that's actually what, nowthat we have AI analyzing blue
zone data, everybody wants tosay it's what they eat, it's
they drink red wine or not, it'sthat they're vegetarian, which
they're not.
What actually stands out as thestrongest correlation is they

(21:38):
have a really solid community,and I think if we do nothing
else, if we focus on that, thatalone can be the most impactful
change for our health.
And then on the nervous systemside, we know that babies in the
first seven years of life don'tnervous system regulate on
their own.
They are entirely co-regulatedto their caregivers, and so

(21:59):
actually one of the biggestgifts we can give our children
is to be in our own nervoussystems, calm and regulated, and
thankfully there are so manyresources for that now, as well
as modeling.
I think it's oversaid, but whatwe tell our kids they pay a
little bit of attention to.
Maybe, if they're teenagers,almost no attention to, but they
do pay attention to what we do,and so I've seen this play out
over time for me a lot.
I used to try to encourage themto take music lessons and then

(22:21):
I realized, oh wait, this isbecause I actually wish I had
done this.
And so I took voice lessons andthen, ironically, they became
interested in it when I wasdoing it.
Same with different workoutsI've done.
They became interested when Istarted doing it.
And so I think just thoselittle mindset shifts can make a
big difference.
And then you just touched on oneof my favorite pet research
topics, which is the connectionof oral health to the health of

(22:42):
the entire body, and I knowyou've talked about this quite a
bit, but I feel like this is awhole other world that is not
nearly enough part of themainstream understanding.
We understand that when webreak a bone it can heal.
We understand that when we geta cut it can heal, but for some
reason we think that the mouthis entirely separate.
And I certainly did for a longtime.
And starting to research thatworld was absolutely fascinating

(23:04):
.
So I first dove into work likeDr Weston, a Price which
thankfully now I know lots ofpeople talk about, but in his
book Nutrition and PhysicalDegeneration, seeing for the
first time that not only doesoral health, of course, impact
cavities that we wouldunderstand but there's things
going on in our body withfat-soluble vitamins, with
minerals, that affect thedevelopment of the jaw, which,

(23:25):
if teeth are overcrowded, thatcan also impact cavities.
But this also affects ourairways.
This affects how we functionand affects nervous system
health, because if we have anoverly tight jaw and we're
clenching, that's a cortisolresponse and just how
drastically our oral health isconnected to every other area of
the body.
And one example I give to helppeople understand this is if

(23:45):
someone has a heart condition,they will often be given
antibiotics when they havedental work because of that
connection to the whole body andthe higher potential for there
being a problem if they alreadyhave a heart condition.
We know that we can takemedications that we just put
under our tongue and they canactually get into our
bloodstream more quickly.
So some medications are giventhat way on purpose.
Yet we seem to not think aboutthat when we're talking about

(24:06):
what we put in our mouth, theproducts we use and things like
that.
I also was fascinated to learnthat our oral microbiome is kind
of just as important as our gutmicrobiome.
They're very connected but mostpeople don't think about the
oral microbiome environment andhow.
If we have oral health problems, there's usually a pathogenic
bacteria, and it can be a kindof in a couple directions.
One can be in the strep mutansfamily, which is where we see

(24:28):
cavities, but there's also afamily of bacteria linked to
gingivitis, and because they'reboth pathogenic, we don't
typically see them both at thesame time.
But either one can indicatethat we have non-optimal oral
microbiome things going on orthat our good bacteria are
struggling.
So thankfully, now we all areunderstanding gut health a lot
more.
I know a lot of people arefocused on making sure that they

(24:49):
don't have leaky gut, on takingprobiotics that actually work,
of avoiding the things that aregoing to harm the gut, and I
feel like it's time for theconversation about that with the
oral microbiome as well,because a lot of the things
we're told to do actually can beharmful to the oral microbiome.
We think we're doing somethinggood when we're using mouthwash
to kill the bacteria, but we'realso wiping out our good

(25:09):
bacteria, which diminishes ourability to produce nitric oxide,
which is important for so manythings beyond even just what we
think of when it comes toexercise.
But that's connected toneurotransmitters.
That's connected to our energylevel.
That's connected to our energylevel.
That's connected to it cleaningout cells, and so I think it's
time for the conversation aboutthe oral microbiome and how to
support it versus chill it,because we still but a lot of

(25:31):
areas in gut health where we'relike, okay, too much antibiotic
use can be really harmful to thegut, but we're still using
antiseptic mouthwash and wipingout our oral microbiome all the
time and not understanding howthat's so connected to our
health.
It also was fascinating to me torealize, of course, that
nothing in the body exists inisolation.
So when we're talking about ouroral health, that impacts the

(25:52):
body in a lot of other ways andthere's actually a two-way
relationship there.
So most people have theunderstanding that sugar on the
teeth might be bad bacteria andlead to cavities.
Most people don't havenecessarily the deeper
understanding that what we putin our body or don't put in our
body when we need somethingactually impacts our teeth's
ability to remineralize and toheal.
And learning aboutremineralization absolutely blew

(26:14):
my mind, and I actually learnedabout it accidentally, because
I went to the dentist when I waspregnant with my third child
and found out I had a few verysmall cavities, but I didn't
want to fill them while I waspregnant, so I decided to wait
and wait till after he was bornand then to fill them then.
But during that time we moved.
So I went to a new dentistafter he was born and got the

(26:34):
cleaning and the checkup and hewas like, okay, you're good to
go, didn't say anything aboutcavities, and so I started
researching this idea ofremineralization, and it's
basically this beautifulinteraction between the nutrient
levels in our body, especiallyminerals and fat-soluble
vitamins, and our oralmicrobiome and our body's
ability to create new enamel andremineralize as it needs to.

(26:54):
But this can get thwarted if wedon't have enough of those
fat-soluble vitamins, or if wedon't have enough minerals, or
if we're just super stressed andnow our mouth is super acidic,
or if we're killing all of ourgood bacteria and not giving our
body the basic building blocksit needs.
I've come to this realizationacross the board when it comes
to health and it applies to oralhealth too which is that the
body's natural state is to heal,it is to always move to optimal

(27:17):
health, and if there's aproblem going on, even that
quote, symptom or problem isstill our body doing what's in
our best interest, and it'sstill our body doing the best it
can and with what it has, andso, rather than symptoms being a
bad thing, I now look at themas messages and gifts.
It's our body directly talkingto us, saying I either need
something I don't have, orthere's something I don't need

(27:38):
that I'm getting too much of,and so when we reframe it that
way, it gives us much moreinsight into what's actually
going on.
And with oral health, thisoften can be as simple as I need
certain nutrients that I'm notgetting, or I'm doing something
to my oral microbiome that ischanging my microbial
environment in a negative way,and so how can I listen to what
my body needs and then give itwhat it needs to reverse that?
Because the body always wantsto heal.

(27:59):
The body is always on our side.
I learned that even in havingHashimoto's which I no longer
have, but that my body wasalways trying to heal the whole
time, and when I said thingslike I am sick or my body is
attacking itself, my body wasnever attacking me.
My body was always operating inmy best interest.
I just had to learn how tolisten.

Dr. Carver (28:20):
Absolutely and, as I said, like when I had my eczema
, it was finally like, wait aminute, my body's telling me
something.
I just intuitively knew thatI'm like, okay, and that's what
I want people to.
That's why, hey, when peopleyou go to the physician or
whatever and you get a label,okay, you have this disease, and
I like to tell people.
Think about it this way youcould say I have high blood

(28:42):
pressure or my blood pressure ishigh, and you're basically
saying the same thing, but yourmindset is different, right?
Because if you say I have highblood pressure, it's this chain
around your neck and thisdiagnosis and this label and
there's nothing you can do aboutit.
It's like the victim mentality,Whereas when you say my blood
pressure is high, you'rerecognizing oh, this is a

(29:02):
symptom of maybe somethingdeeper.
So patients come in all thetime they're on blood pressure
medication and statins andreflux medication.
I'm like, oh, we just keephitting the symptoms and we're
never uprooting the cause.
So I think that's reallyvaluable to know.
Just because we get a diagnosisor a label does not destine us
to have a lifetime ofmedications and issues.

(29:23):
Like you said, the body isdesigned to work optimally and
when it can't, we know there'ssomething that's missing.
So I love that you're sayingand I think a lot of people
don't realize.
People don't realize like atooth is an organ, it has its
own blood supply, lymph supply,nerve supply.
Of course anybody who's had atoothache will know there's a
nerve in there and that eatsconstantly, all day, every day.

(29:44):
Remineralizing, demineralizing,remineralizing, demineralizing.
People think of it as just thisstagnant thing that helps you
chew food.
But no, when you can say nowit's hard once.
And there's always thismisnomer that people come to me
all the time and say fix mycavity Once it's a whole, once
it's completely cavitated, atthat point we haven't got there

(30:05):
yet.
There's constantly research andwe're getting there, but that
sometimes you get to a pointwhere we can still remineralize.
So when you have those littlewhite spots on your teeth and in
between the teeth, sometimes wesee just starting on an x-ray,
my first goal is to always tryto remineralize first, because

(30:25):
once you cut it into a tooth,that's forever and maybe we
don't use the amalgams with theheavy metals anymore but we're
replacing it with plastics.
So you know and yes, there aremore biocompatible ones that
most biological dentists areusing, but it's still not
natural tooth structure, it'sstill a foreign substance.
So I'm always pushing let'sprevent, because you get one

(30:48):
cavity and then for the rest ofyour life you're going to
constantly have to be probablyreplaced a few times.
So let's try to not cut intothe tooth at all, to the tooth
at all.
So maybe talk to us a little bitabout how you learned.
What can we?
You talked about the fatsoluble vitamins and minerals,
which I think is a reallyimportant point.
Everybody.
People say oh, your vitamin,your calcium's low, just take
calcium.
No mineral works in isolation.

(31:11):
Right.
If you build a lot of tartar inyour teeth, we're often saying
there's a calcium imbalancethere.
You're not supposed toprecipitate anything out,
because if you're precipitatingthat into your teeth you better
believe you're doing that inyour arteries too.
So we're always saying well,you're not balancing your
calcium properly with magnesium,or you may be low in vitamin K,

(31:31):
because we need all of thosethings together to put the
calcium and the phosphorus intothe teeth and the bones.
So if you're just takingcalcium or just taking magnesium
or whatever, just taking yourvitamin D, that's not enough and
that's why the whole WestonPrice is based along this.
He noticed people in 1930s whowent all over the world and was

(31:55):
seeing that, even though thesepopulations were eating vastly
different diets, when he lookedat the content of the diet,
that's what he noticed All thesefat soluble vitamins 10 times
the amount of minerals.
I think it was like four timesthe amount of fat soluble
vitamins, 10 times the amount ofminerals in these diets.
And that's why they had suchbeautiful wide jaws, no cavities
.
So that's what we wanted tothink about.

(32:17):
So tell us a little bit aboutwhat you think is a good
strategy for remineralizingthose very beginning, what we
would call incipient decay areas.

Katie Wells (32:26):
Yeah, I love that you brought that up.
I think Weston A Price's workis a great starting point for
people if they really want to godeeper on this.
So is Dr Kate Shanahan in deepnutrition.
She has some wonderfulresources and understanding
there as well.
But really it's justunderstanding that, especially
in the last hundred years or so,our diets have changed so
drastically that our bodies maynot even entirely recognize our

(32:47):
diets as nutrient sourcesanymore.
And I've had people on mypodcast, even Chris Kresser, who
when I first interviewed him 10years ago said we should get as
much as we can from food.
He now, even recently, has saidwe're now at a time where we
can't, unfortunately, as a humanpopulation, live optimally just
based on food, because thevolume of food we would have to
eat to get the minimum nutrientswe need is so high that we

(33:09):
would create more problems fromovereating.
So unfortunately, I do think inour current time we are in a
place where, especially if youhave something going on,
supplementation in various formscan be really helpful.
But I still think it'simportant to start with food.
I think one shift here is themindset shift away from, like I
talked about, macros andcalories and to now, when I look
at food, I look at how can Iget the most micro and

(33:31):
macronutrient density from thefoods I'm going to consume today
?
And especially when we look atthe micronutrient quality, that
leads to vastly different foodchoices, because you could get
the same macros, calories,protein, whatever from bars or
shakes or these different things, but they don't have the
micronutrient profile of wholefoods.
So I think, especially whenwe're talking about kids who are
developing their skeletalstructure, developing their

(33:53):
muscle that will last theirwhole lives, hopefully
developing their initial teethand gum structure, we really
want to focus on thosenutrient-dense foods.
Like Dr Weston A Price talksabout, the things that are
largely removed from our moderndiets the animal-based foods,
the broths that we areover-consuming, muscle meat and
not getting enough of the otheramino acids that are synergistic
to those to actually be usedmost effectively in the body.

(34:14):
Same thing with fat-solublevitamins the levels have
declined in our diet sodrastically and been replaced
with industrial seed oils whichthe body doesn't recognize.
These are foreign to the body.
Of course, the body, like wesaid, is always on our side, so
it's going to use what it has tothe best of its ability.
So it's going to use these oils, but it's not what it's
designed to use in those variousprocesses in the body, and so

(34:36):
inflammatory oils are gettingput into our cells, if that's
all the body has, and there'stheories that this is what's
leading to the rise in variousproblems and chronic conditions
across the board, because it'sjust the wrong chemical messages
the body doesn't understand.
And so returning to the foodsthat our bodies know how to use
most optimally is a big firststep.
And, like I said, I do thinkwe're also in a time of

(34:58):
supplementation, especially whenit comes to things like
minerals and fat-solublevitamins.
But, as you said, they don'texist in isolation.
So, just like with broken bones, taking calcium alone is not
going to be what needed to healthat bone.
Because if you think about apiece of chalk, pure calcium,
very easily breakable, withoutthe silica matrix, the collagen,
all the other micronutrients,you just have a very breakable
bone.

(35:18):
Same thing with the teethWithout all the other components
, the body can't make thestrongest enamel.
Like you said, if a cavity isthrough the dentin, it can't
necessarily heal, but if we justhave a small one in the enamel,
the body knows what to do if wegive it the right building
blocks.
I also personally think thatwe're in a time of nature
deficit disorder is what I callit that we were, as humans,

(35:46):
meant to spend a lot more timeoutside than we do, and this is
vitamin D is one importantcomponent of that, but only one
small piece of what time outsidedoes for us.
And, as an aside, they've donecamping studies where people
camped outside for seven dayswithout any artificial light and
their stress levels, theirsharpening, their hormones all
got into optimal ranges in oneweek because our bodies are
wired to be in rhythm withnature.
So the more time we can getoutside, especially, that was

(36:06):
something I did when, duringthat phase, because I was
pregnant, trying to get enoughvitamin D, I think that was
instrumental in my cavitiesreversing as well, because,
again, with the personalization,I don't absorb vitamin D from
supplements very well, though mybody can produce it very well
from the sun.
So I think getting outside notever burning, but getting enough
time outside is an importantway to get that, not just

(36:28):
vitamin D, but the entirespectrum of light from the sun
that is helpful in that entirehealing cascade.
Another aside on that it'sfascinating People.
We got into this red lighttherapy craze over the last five
years, which is great.
There's a lot of benefits tothat.
What people don't realize is allof those spectrum of light are
available in the light of thesun for free outside every

(36:49):
single day, and we get that redlight concentration especially
at sunrise and sunset but it'sthere throughout the day as well
, and so, rather than spendthousands of dollars on red
lights, just prioritize goingoutside and watching the sunrise
and the sunset and getting thatmidday bright light to get the
UV and to get vitamin D, and youmight be amazed at how much
that changes your stress levels,which impact also, ironically,

(37:11):
the acidity in your mouth andyour oral microbiome, but also
your hormone levels or sleep,which is when your body's
repairing and when the actualwork of all of those things
happening is going on.
Anyway, anytime I get to get onthe soapbox and spend more time
outside and get sunshine, I'm abig fan of that.
As a side note for that, any ofthe sunlight outside, without
looking through a window,through glasses, through
contacts, there's importantsignaling reactions happening in

(37:33):
the retina and in the eye thatdon't happen if we block that
light with glass, with contactsin between us in the sunlight
not that you need to look at thesun, but you need to be exposed
to it without something inbetween you, um, and then beyond
there.
That's where we really get intothe personalization aspect of
health, I feel like, and the thevery specific nutrients that
people will need.
There's genetic componentsthere, there's if there's

(37:54):
deficiencies going on, but Ithink the 80 20 of it is those
things that are universallyapplicable to the human animal,
which are the things like supernutrient-dense diet, making sure
you're hydrated, getting thebasic minerals that your body
needs to function optimally, andthen getting time outside so
your body's getting the rightsignals to do all of those
things.

Dr. Carver (38:13):
Absolutely.
Those are just amazing.
We can all just downloadKatie's brain, but luckily we
have it on a podcast so we canlisten to it over and over.
But you can see how she's notsaying we specifically need to
eat these things.
So in general, again, we want'snot that.
It's not the same thing, andthat's why we used to be big

(38:42):
proponents of get your nutrientsfrom food because they're in
the right forms.
Because there are a lot ofsupplements, maybe in a says
this form, but when you eat ityour body doesn't really
recognize and so you can't useit.
And that's why there's so muchcontroversy in the supplement
field.
Oh, supplements don't work orthey're not good, and that's

(39:05):
true.
There's a lot that are junky,but there are a lot of quality
brands out there too, and that'swhy I love the field of
kinesiology and muscle testing,and anybody can learn that.
We've had a podcast episodeback in the beginning about that
, so go back and listen to thatone because you can test
yourself.
Right, we were trying to be ourown best doctors, so when you
can learn simple techniques likethat, I love it.
Proud mama moment.
When I see my daughter in arestaurant, she hides her salmon

(39:26):
ring finger under the tables,mom test me which food should I
have?
So I love that when we'retalking about trying to empower
our kids to be their own bestdoctor.
So those are some goodtechniques.
But, yes, they tend to fortifyfoods with some vitamins.
Again, they're usually thelowest quality when you see
fortified, but the minerals arereally lacking today.
So that is something I'm alwaystalking to people.

(39:49):
Ideally you have to have a gooddiet of foundation with the
good foods, but minerals are solacking because the soil is
lacking today we're justover-farming all of the
pesticides and all that.
So I think at the very minimum,a mineral supplement is really
necessary.
I make sure my kids get that.
We're seeing so many kids beinginjured, so many ligament

(40:12):
issues, tears and ACL in thesekids.
That really didn't happen ageneration ago.
But again, with all thedeficiencies in our diet, our
body's not building strong,bones not building strong.
I remember thinking when I cameout of dental school 20 years
ago, maybe I should be anorthodontist because cavities
aren't going to be a thinganymore.
And now it's worse than ever.
20 years I've seen this vastincrease because and it's very

(40:34):
rapidly, like you saiddrastically changed Just in a
generation.
No-transcript of the animalright Because, again, that's how

(41:03):
humans we were designed to eatall of those things.
So, yeah, it's important to getthat, the variety, and I think,
a lot.
I know my own kids.
I struggle to get them protein.
They don't want to eat eggsevery day but I'm trying to
teach them.
Like you get exhausted when yougo onto the soccer field
because you're not giving yourbody the building blocks.
But, like you said, they'reteenagers so they don't want to
listen to everything I saidthey've got to experience it

(41:25):
themselves.
But I got her last night whenshe was talking about I said one
of her cousin's friends startedthe carnivore diet, which I'm
not saying I'm a proponent of,but she was noticing how much
better her skin was getting.
Immediately and that's a hottopic for my daughter she said
should I try that?
And I said you still need yourcarbohydrates, but maybe just
reduce all the grains, all that,the junky processed foods that

(41:46):
don't have any of the nutrientsin there.
You'll notice a big difference.
And now she's at the age she'slike oh, okay, maybe I can
control this.
So, again, empowering our kidsto give them the information and
let them make the choice whatthey want to do and it's been a
hard lesson for me to learn.
But I love what you said earlierin the podcast about definitely
giving them a choice.
And I know that somewhere Ifailed in the beginning, always

(42:09):
trying to control every littlething without letting them.
And my daughter said to ourtherapist one time.
She said, why don't you takeall the supplements your mom
gives me?
She's?
I don't even know what they are.
And I was like, oh, it's bad,I'm just showing.
And so of course I was like,wow, that makes perfect sense.
So now when I say I said, hey,how about some minerals to help
with your?
Whatever it may be?

(42:30):
Now I always learn the lessonthe hard way.
That's why I do the podcast, soI can help everybody else avoid
those mistakes and do a littlebit better.
Tell us a little bit about yourline, the Wellness N-E-S-S-E,
and you have a whole websitededicated to your product.
So I know you have a lot oforal products.
What else do you promote onthat website?

Katie Wells (42:50):
First I'll say I'm right there with you.
I've learned a lot of thesethings the hard way, especially
when it comes to parenting, andI think that's also a moment of
give ourselves grace, becausethey're also resilient and
adaptable and they havewonderful lessons in there too.
But also just wanted to echowhat you said of not coming from
a place of fear but from aplace of empowerment,
understanding that we hear aboutthe obesity epidemic, for

(43:10):
instance, and how this israpidly on the rise and that's
one symptom of this drasticchange in our food supply, along
with declining fertility ratesand these very dire predictions
that by 2045 fertility could goto zero.
But this is impacting our bodyin other small ways as well, and
we know that in 1900, forinstance, we ate zero pounds of
soybean oil per year, and nowthe average American consumes 24

(43:32):
pounds of soybean oil per year,which is nutrient devoid.
It's not that anything alone inisolation, is necessarily bad
or good.
It's just that we're not givingour bodies the building blocks
they need.
We know that we're not gettingthe just bare micronutrients
that used to be in our food.
We're not getting thenutrient-dense fats and proteins
that used to be the staples inour diet.
So understanding that lets usapproach it from a place of

(43:52):
empowerment rather than from aplace of fear, from wellness.
It definitely started from mypassion for oral health, so the
majority of our line focuses ontoothpaste, floss, oral
probiotics and things thatsupport the oral microbiome
without killing the goodbacteria and the bad bacteria,
but in supporting that naturalbalance in the same way that you
would support your gut throughthe right nutrients, through

(44:14):
probiotics, things like that.
But also, what I realized yearsago was that I had these friends
who were eating organic,avoiding GMOs, using natural
cleaning products, and they werestill using conventional things
for certain products,especially hair care and oral
care, and it was because thosethings worked better and I
realized we weren't going to seechanges here unless we could

(44:34):
create natural products.
I also realized I'm a big fanof the rule of 80-20, the Pareto
principle, which is that 80% ofour results come from 20% of
our inputs, and we see this playout in economics and science
and lots of fields.
But when it comes to personalcare, I realized that the
majority, that 80% of our toxinexposure from personal care
products came from 20% ofproducts, especially in a family

(44:57):
environment, and these were thethings we were putting on our
bodies every day, like what wewashed our hair with, our soap,
our oral care, et cetera.
And so I realized if I couldcreate things that would
outperform the conventionalalternatives in those categories
and make it an effortlessswitch, we could reduce our
toxin exposure from personalcare by as much as 80%,
especially for guys and for kids, who aren't using the 80 plus

(45:19):
products a day that women oftenuse.
And so that's why I startedthere, and just with the same
idea as a lot of the things onWellness Mama, of getting things
in natural form as much aspossible, at the very least
getting safe things.
In my opinion, it would begreat if we lived in a world
where safe was the absolutebaseline.
That that was the bare minimumis that we don't put anything on
our bodies that we wouldn't eat.

(45:41):
But with oral care in particular, I realized there was this
really unique opportunitybecause, since we know what we
put on our skin, and especiallyin our mouth, can enter our body
so rapidly, that means we alsocan use that principle for good,
so we can put beneficial thingsin our oral care products and
in our hair care that weactually want to get into our
bodies, and so we reallycarefully tweaked and developed

(46:03):
things that would supportwhatever in the oral microbiome
we were trying to support, while, of course, not being toxic,
but also help the nutrientdelivery system in our mouth, in
our hair, in our skin in a waythat was non-toxic.
So it's been a really funproject.
That way, I feel like it's beenan adult science fair project,

(46:24):
and I'm just glad that, whetherit's Wellness or there's so many
other natural companies now,and I love this I love that we
actually have alternatives,because when I started 15 years
ago, I was making these thingsfrom scratch in my kitchen
because they didn't exist.
I couldn't even buy grass-fedmeat in my grocery store.
Back then I was buying it froman Amish farmer on a dirt road
and I think it was actuallyillegal at the time, and I was
making toothpaste at home, andso I'm very excited that now, I
think, thanks to moms I thinkmoms are leading this demand for

(46:46):
change but we see naturalproducts, we have much more
availability, and I wanted to bea part of helping that change.

Dr. Carver (46:52):
You definitely are, I have to say your website, all
the reaches and everything thatyou talk about.
I love, too, how you we talk.
We're really big on the mental,emotional, spiritual side of
health too, so I love that youappreciate that, especially when
it comes to parenting and Ithink that's that a lot of
people don't understand how muchour you know unperceived stress

(47:12):
affects all those around us.
So that's really important, forbecause, as I've always said,
you can use the best productsand you can eat the best foods,
but if the nervous system is notregulated properly, it's not
going to work.
That energy really underlies alot of that biochemistry.
So we're putting it all togetherand I appreciate you so much
for all your amazing knowledge,your incredible reach, for

(47:35):
everything that you're doing and, again, I'm a huge fan of all
your work.
I love all your recipes.
It's made my life so mucheasier.
So I really appreciate youtaking the time to meet with us
today and share all of youramazing insight with our
audience.
Is there anything else you'dlike to leave us with today?

Katie Wells (47:54):
Thank you so much for the patience.
I know this took a few triesand I'm so glad we got to
finally connect and I think, toend, I think what you just said
is actually the perfect pin toput in this conversation of
really that nervous system andthat inner emotional state.
First, that was a lesson.
That was it took.
I was a very slow learner.
It took me a lot of years tounderstand that part and for
years I was doing all the thingsquote unquote, right on paper

(48:15):
and I had spreadsheets of allthe supplements I was taking and
I was avoiding everything bad,or so I thought, and I was
eating all the nutrients.
And it wasn't until I addressedthe inner side, the emotional,
the nervous system side, thateverything really started to
shift for me, and so I thinkthat's an often overlooked piece
that we are thankfully nowtalking about a lot more and I
think there are many moreresources for this as well.

(48:36):
But I think you're right.
I think we hear you can't outsupplement a poor diet.
You can't out exercise a poordiet.
You also can't out diet orsupplement or exercise a
stressed out nervous system,because if your body is in fight
or flight and if you thinkyou're running from a tiger,
your body is not in the state tobe able to rest and digest and
to heal, and so I think thatalone, that inner shift, can

(48:56):
actually be one of the mostimpactful for our health and,
like we talked about, for womenespecially.
We set that tone for our house,so it is, I would say, one of
actually the most selflessthings we can do to go on that
journey of developing nervoussystem resilience and addressing
whatever it is we need toaddress to get to that point.

Dr. Carver (49:14):
I think that pays absolute dividends, not just for
ourselves, but for our familiesand for everyone we come in
contact absolute dividends, notjust for ourselves, but for our
families and for everyone wecome in contact 100%, so tell us
your exact websites and howeverybody else can connect.
Tell us about your podcast.

Katie Wells (49:28):
I'm sure everybody would love to tune in.
I would love to hear fromeverybody.
Everything lives atwellnessmamacom.
There's links there to wellnessand to the products, to the
podcast, and then I'm justwellnessmama everywhere, on
social media as well.

Dr. Carver (49:40):
Fantastic.
Thank you again.
So much, Katie.
I hope you all enjoyed this.
Please listen to this a coupleof times.
I think this is one of the mostimpactful episodes we've done
to date.
I hope you all have a reallywonderful day and we'll see you
on the next episode.