July 13, 2025 • 49 mins
What if the key to preventing heart disease, dementia, and cancer was hiding in your mouth? In this eye-opening episode, we're joined by dental hygienist and consultant Tosha Kozloski RDH, who's revolutionizing periodontal care through advanced diagnostic techniques that reveal what traditional exams miss.
"All infections start subclinically," Tosha explains, sharing how microscopy has transformed her approach to gum disease. While conventional dentistry often relies on visible symptoms like bleeding or inflammation, Tasha shows how harmful bacteria can thrive beneath the surface in seemingly healthy mouths. The microscope becomes a powerful educational tool as patients witness spirochetes and amoebas actively swimming in samples from their own mouths – bacteria that shouldn't be present in health.
We explore the three-tier approach that's helping patients regrow bone without surgery: professional interventions with ozone and laser therapy, enhanced home care protocols, and addressing immune system factors. Tasha explains why water flossing with antimicrobial solutions penetrates protective bacterial biofilms that brushing alone cannot reach, using vivid analogies that compare traditional cleanings to a "car wash" when some patients need the "full detail."
The conversation challenges conventional wisdom about periodontitis, antibiotics, and the oral-systemic connection. From patients whose eye infections resolved after periodontal treatment to the presence of oral bacteria in brain tissue and heart attack clots, the evidence is clear: your mouth is connected to everything.
Whether you're a healthcare professional or someone concerned about your overall wellbeing, this episode offers practical insights into preventing disease at its source. Listen now to discover why paying attention to your oral health might be the most important preventative measure you're overlooking.
Ready to connect with Tosha:
https://www.instagram.com/tosh.care/
To contact Dr. Carver directly, email her at drcarver@carverfamilydentistry.com
Want to talk with someone at Dr. Carver's office?
Call her practice: 413-663-7372
Reverse Gum Disease In 6 Weeks! With Dr. Rachaele Carver Online Course!
Learn more about here: https://reversegumdiseaseinsixweeks.info/optinpage
Disclaimer: This podcast is for educational purposes only. Information discussed is not intended for diagnosis, curing, or prevention of any disease and is not intended to replace advice given by a licensed healthcare practitioner. Before using any products mentioned or attempting methods discussed, please speak with a licensed healthcare provider. This podcast disclaims responsibility from any possible adverse reactions associated with products or methods discussed. Opinions from guests are their own, and this podcast does not condone or endorse opinions made by guests. We do not provide guarantees about the guests' qualifications or credibility. This podcast and its guests may have direct or indirect financial interests associated with products mentioned.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. Carver (00:00):
Hello everybody, welcome back to another episode
of the Root of the Matter.
I am your host, dr RachelCarver, and today we have the
pleasure of speaking with TashaKodolowski, who is a registered
dental hygienist and aconsultant.
I met her at a biologic dentalconference and we had a great
conversation.
She was showing the microscopeand all and she did.
(00:21):
My sample showed me it waspretty good.
But she helps practicestransform their approach to
periodontal care.
So gum disease and it's reallygood at teaching these newer
modalities that we love, such asthe microscope and salivary
diagnostics.
We've had the owner, one of theowners of Bristle Health, on to
talk to us a little bit aboutwhat we can do with saliva.
(00:41):
That field is exploding becausewe're using saliva now for
cancer diagnosis, like all sortsof great.
It's wonderful because it's notexpensive, it's non-invasive,
so that's super exciting, right,and her like me.
You know we resonated reallywell because our primary goal is
prevention and we know it's somuch easier to prevent disease
than it is to treat disease.
(01:03):
And since maybe a lot of peoplesay 80% of disease comes from
the mouth, we know that oralbacteria is a cause of heart
disease, right, kidney, liver,colon cancer, dementia, anywhere
that blood flows anytime we'rechewing and swallowing, that
bacteria is getting to the restof our bodies.
So we're here to.
(01:24):
The whole point of this podcastis showing that oral connection
to disease, and the coolestthing about our profession is we
have a very accessible area towork on right.
It's a lot easier to treat gumdisease in the mouth than it is
to treat, say, colon cancer orany other kind of intestinal
inflammation.
Thank you, tasha, for coming on.
Why don't you tell us a littlebit about your story, why you
(01:46):
got interested in dental hygieneand how it transformed into
this consultant job?
Tosha Kozloski (01:52):
Yeah, like all of us, I guess it's an evolution
, right, dr Carver?
I don't think I ever set off inhygiene school to want to do
all the things that I'm doingtoday, but, as it goes, one
thing leads to the next, leadsto the next, and probably from
sixth grade though, I was alwaysa nerd and wanted to be a
dental hygienist.
My mom was a dental assistant,always loved going to our local
(02:15):
dentist, lived in a tiny littletown in rural North Dakota one
dentist for all the ruralcommunity and I was no stranger
and lots of cavities.
Growing up, both of my parentshad significant gum like
problems, so my dad had severeperiodontal disease, my mom had
a lot of restorative decayissues, and just the not because
(02:36):
they were lack of caring orthey didn't take care of their
teeth, it was just there wassomething more going on that
they didn't know about, and sotherefore, with us being the
children, we had a lot of thosesame issues, and so when I got
to hygiene school, I justthought man perio is where I'm
going to be able to make adifference.
Working in GP practice is justgoing to be healthy, pro fees
all day long.
I'll probably get so bored withthat Little did.
(02:59):
I know we all face perio.
No, it doesn't matter whereyour practice is, even if it's a
pedo practice.
And so once I got, once Igraduated, I really wanted to
work for a periodontist, gotlucky enough to land a job
working for a periodontistsimultaneously worked for a GP
practice.
Three doctors, 10 hygienistslots of contrast there, right.
But what they had in commonwere that most of my patients
(03:19):
bled all day long and what I didat the perio office was
preparation for flap surgeriesand different things like that.
If somebody was referred forperiodontal disease, we're
talking stage three.
These were not easily restoredmouths.
These were patients that hadlost teeth due to gum disease,
collapsed bites, all on X wasn'ta thing 20 years ago.
But even if it was, I thinkback to it now and I'm not
(03:41):
really sure how easy some ofthose patients could have been
restored with that anyway,because everything shifts right.
They don't.
Periodontal patients don't loseteeth like all at once.
It's like little by little allkinds of things are happening,
and so I just got really curiousabout man.
There's got to be a way.
It can't be normal for all ofmy patients to bleed like this.
And so within a year I justthought that everyone bled, it
(04:05):
was normal.
And then I finally had apatient that and I wanted to
treat with scaling and rootplaning all those traditional
diagnostics.
But I finally had a patientthat looked at me one day and
she said Tasha, what do I do?
I don't want to lose my teeth.
And I was like I literally hadno idea she had gone through
scaling and root planing.
She was one of these patientsthat spent 20 minutes easily
twice a day immaculate home care.
(04:25):
She was diabetic.
Even recommending scaling androot planing felt wrong because
I was like what am I going to doin there?
There's like nothing to cleanoff, so fast forward.
I moved to Tennessee, found adoctor that was as passionate as
I was about perio and found outabout saliva testing, so
started doing saliva testing in2008.
That was like a game changer.
(04:47):
I immediately thought of coursethis makes sense.
All of a sudden that reallymade sense and I really did see
patients getting better boneregrowing without LENAP, without
laser, without any advancedtechnology, truly, except for
just a better understanding andgoing after the bacterial
infection, understanding thehost immune system and that
whole piece.
Then a microscope wasintroduced to us and that was
(05:11):
just that was a bigger gamechanger than salivary
diagnostics, simply because somany patients looked good.
And then you would look attheir slide and it was.
It was that connection.
It was that all infectionsstart subclinically, just like
if you get strep throat, youdon't all of a sudden have strep
like you have to come incontact with it, your immune
(05:32):
system doesn't fight it off, andso that was the aha moment for
me and for my patients.
Dr. Carver (05:38):
Claude's for a second there, because everything
you say is amazing and this iswhat I think is such the game
changer, because so often welook at our patients they're
like they're fine, they're not,their guns aren't, they're just,
they're fine, but they're notLike you said.
I talk to patients and my kidsall the time about the bucket,
right, you don't really developa symptom until that bucket is
full.
You've been adding in thosetoxins, you've been adding in
(06:00):
all this stuff and then all ofus, it feels sometimes all of a
sudden I have a simple like myeczema, which brought me on this
journey, like it was buildingfor years and years.
I didn't all of a sudden it feltlike it.
All of a sudden I had all theserashes all over hands, but it
was years and years of all sortsof things right, building up,
and then the perfect storm.
(06:21):
Right, because it's never justone thing right, it's just the
combination, the immune systembreaking down.
Right, because our bodies areamazingly adaptable.
We can heal from almostanything.
So when we're prevention, wewant to look at what are those
root causes?
Right?
And so, even for myself, whenwe first started doing the silha
testing, I was like whoa, whyam I showing protein and white
(06:45):
blood cells in my saliva?
I'm like I have perfect gum.
They never bleed, I don't haveany cavities, like, everything
is good.
But that was really the key tome.
Wow, there's something and, asmost of us, we're always dealing
with trying to heal our guts,keep them as clean as possible.
So I was like I am alwaysworking on that gut.
So that to me, when I do thatsilha, which is a screening test
(07:13):
, I'm looking for evidence ofinflammation, and I see that I'm
always looking okay with thatBecause in my opinion which
maybe you share this with thegung disease, that is a systemic
problem.
I believe it's autoimmune.
Tosha Kozloski (07:23):
It doesn't.
We're not just like hanging outhere and going oh, I'm just
going to swim here.
We have 60,000 miles of bloodvessels.
I tell every hygienist, if yousee any bleeding not bleeding on
probing any bleeding in therewhy?
Why is the gum tissueessentially getting a paper cut?
And if it does, then anythingthat's in the mouth is going to
be circulating the rest of thebody.
We, anything that's in themouth is going to be circulating
the rest of the body.
We found porphyromodousgingivalis in the brain.
(07:45):
We found these types ofbacteria in the cloths of
patients that have had heartattacks and strokes.
How did they get there?
Dr. Carver (07:51):
Exactly and why we have ignored this connection for
so long is baffling.
It's easier right For everybodyto stay in their own little box
.
And we super specialized inmedicine and dentistry and
everybody just stays in theirbox.
Where we need the doctors ofold, where where we say, hey,
the whole body is connected, howdo we get back to nature and
(08:14):
all stuff?
Yeah, so when you first talkedabout, when you moved to
Tennessee and you were startingdoing what were, what were you
looking for in these salivarysaliva tests?
I assume maybe it was like theoral ID kind of thing.
What was that showing?
Tosha Kozloski (08:29):
So with the saliva test that I used
initially, like the first onewas, eventually it was sold and
now it's oral DNA.
But it was the precursor tothat.
It was Hein Diagnostics thatcame from Germany, brought here
and the lab was in Germany, andthen you shipped everything to
them, brought here and the labwas in Germany, and then you
shipped everything to them.
And but when we first just didsaliva testing, it was we saw
(08:51):
positive signs and symptoms ofperiodontal disease.
So I was still very muchlimited to my traditional
diagnostic parameters, not quiterealizing that I was being very
reactive.
But when I was being reactive Iwas seeing such great results
when I did take that patientthrough therapy and didn't just
try to remove the debris thatreally had nothing to do with
the infection in the first place.
But to pass your clinicalboards you need to be able to
(09:14):
get rid of all that gunk on thepatient's mouth and teeth and
mouth.
And it was really more when Igot the microscope and we
started taking slides oneveryone and looking at their
biofilm that all of a sudden itwas a game changer, simply
because I saw patients thatlooked great.
They didn't have any bleedingpoints, they didn't have redness
(09:34):
and inflammation.
But they did have spirochetes,amoeba, white blood cells, all
these things that they shouldn'thave if they're healthy.
And those were also thepatients that I would do my full
mouth probe chart and I wouldsay everything looks great.
Dr Carver, We'll get you shinedup and we'll get you out of
here.
And then I would see all thisbleeding and I thought, oh my
gosh, what do I do?
Oh, sorry, Dr Carver, I waswrong.
(09:56):
What do I do now?
Oh, by the way, I'm halfwaythrough my appointment.
I don't have time to convertthis into a difficult prophy.
Back then we didn't even have agingivitis code, which still is
very misunderstood, but wedidn't really know what to do
anyway.
And for me, I thought well,this patient already does a
great job with their home care.
What more can we do?
Anyway, I didn't know, I justdidn't know.
And so once I started to seethat bacteria and I could show
(10:19):
the patient, wow, these bacteriaare actually living inside your
gum tissue, not just on top ofit, You're not.
You came in contact with thesesomewhere Parents, partners,
pets, contaminated food anddrinking water.
We don't know.
What we do know is that yourimmune system is not fighting
them off because we're seeingthem here, and so now this is
what we need to do.
So I was able to create a lotmore proactive plans than always
just chasing these infectionsthat have a lot of times been
(10:42):
there for decades.
Dr. Carver (10:44):
Yeah, and interestingly what?
In my research?
What I found is that's what weused to think you got it from
this person.
Or people say, well, my parentshad it and so therefore I have
it.
What I believe that is reallyyou inherit kind of your ability
to detox well or not, right?
So it's not that younecessarily and yes, with
(11:04):
parents and everything we swapsaliva we swap ideally in a
healthy person you should haveto think that we never have that
.
Or rent complex bacteria is afallacy.
All of us have this bad, evenin health.
It's when it gets out ofbalance, yeah.
So the way that we think aboutagain, especially if you're
(11:25):
thinking this is an autoimmunekind of issue, in my opinion, a
lot of times it's when that gut,because we live in such a toxic
world, now right.
And if we're not detoxing thosetoxins, well.
Or, my opinion, a lot of timesit's when that gut, because we
live in such a toxic world, nowright.
And if we're not detoxing thosetoxins, well, or we're eating a
diet, that's not right for us,right, and it's creating
inflammation.
That inflammation, the gut, isone same lining, right?
So we could be having a gutinfection which then changes the
(11:47):
environment in the mouth too.
Absolutely, we shift Now thewhole whole environment.
This is right.
We talk about like that terraintheory, right?
So the germ theory is which iswhat conventional dash straight
built on?
It's a germ, we kill the germand everything's happy.
But we know that not to be true.
And with the beginning ofsalivary diagnostics we would be
like you know why I turned awayfrom it originally is because
(12:11):
didn't matter what the resultswere, that the recommendation
was always antibiotics.
And I'm like always I was likeI don't, yes, that kills the
stuff, but I'm like why did itbecome imbalanced in the first
place?
So we're going to nukeeverything, but then also, what
are we doing to all the gutbacteria with those antibiotics?
There's a lot of negativeconsequences for just blasting
everything and you're not reallyaddressing why the imbalance
(12:33):
happened in the first place.
So it goes deeper.
And this is why going to thedentist every six months or more
is so vital to your overallhealth, because we need to
follow your oral and we see this, like you just said, all the
time.
People have impeccable homecare.
So why does the disease persist?
Because it's deeper.
Right and again, is it diet, isit deficiency, stress?
(12:56):
Yes, everybody's got stress, soyou got all those issues and
when we have a lot of stress andwhen we have a lot of toxicity,
that creates deficiencies, soeverything gets out of whack
right.
So let's say you have thepatient come in and again their
oral care looks great.
You're not concernednecessarily with anything and
you do this, the microscoperight.
(13:19):
So you swab super easy to doyou just swab around the teeth
in a couple of places, put it ona slide.
So what are you looking forwhen you are looking on the
microscope?
Tosha Kozloski (13:31):
Yeah.
So I'm strictly looking forshapes and I don't know, based
on the shape, what that bacteriais, for example.
But what I do know is certainshapes are part of your healthy,
good, good, healthy guys thathelp your body stay healthy.
And then there's others likespirochetes, amoeba, trichinomas
.
We shouldn't find those inhealth, we shouldn't find those
in high volume, high motility.
So we're really looking for thedifference.
(13:52):
Is this a low volume, lowmotility?
There's not a whole lot goingon.
We've got short rods, we've gotcocci, all the things that we
learned in biology.
That's part of that initialbiofilm.
But as the biofilm matures itstarts to transition into those
gram negative rods and all thatkind of stuff.
And so when we see thosechanges, we know that there's
already a significant imbalance.
(14:14):
And in periodontal disease, weknow that some of those more
harmful toxin-releasing bacteriabecause, like you mentioned
earlier, we can have some ofthese bad bacteria without being
sick but it's whether or notthey're releasing a couple
different types of toxins thatdrive the inflammatory response.
So there's definitely more tothe story than what the
microscope is.
(14:35):
But we're looking for highvolume, high motility, lots of
frantic, frantic looking slide,because that tells me, hey,
there's a huge imbalance here,but it really makes that
conversation so much easier withthe patient when they see all
kinds of stuff and they're like,oh my gosh, that's in my mouth.
It's a much easier conversationthan trying to explain to them
(14:57):
the entire oral microbiome andthe oral systemic connection.
For me, my belief is keep itsuper simple.
Keep it so simple for thepatient that they know exactly
what they need to do in steps,and don't throw the kitchen sink
at them at once, because thenit turns into a new year's
resolution that by February andmost people have already quit.
And so that's where I startwith.
(15:18):
Okay, let's look at what thispatient is doing now.
Let's make some tweaks andmodifications.
If they have an extremely highrisk slide, they have positive
signs and symptoms, then we doneed to take them through some
medicated therapy.
We need to get in those nooksand crannies, disrupt and
disorganize the biofilm, helpgive their immune system a
jumpstart.
Then figure out what are youall doing at home.
Let's take a look at your dietand putting the rest of the
(15:40):
pieces together and I'll sendthem home with a water pick or
something like that that canbetter disrupt and disorganize,
because if the patient hasperiodontal disease many of
those bacteria have.
They're similar to MRSA in thatthey have that protective matrix
material around themselves forprotection.
So if our patient is onlybrushing and flossing and they
do have these bacteria that arereleasing these toxins that are
(16:02):
driving inflammation, thatprotective jacket isn't going to
be brushed and flossed away.
Their immune system is notgoing to be able to get rid of
it as easy, especially ifthey're already eating the
standard American diet,microwaving their food in
plastic, all the differentthings, so many things it's hard
to count.
If they're wearing a CPAP,they're not cleaning it properly
.
There's so many differentoffenders to all of our bodies
(16:25):
and everyone's immune system isdifferent.
I've had patients with homecare.
That is not very good.
Their gum health is fine,what's?
Dr. Carver (16:33):
happening systematically, right, it's so
important that person, maybethey are eating the right diet,
right, they're doing all theirsleeping well, they're not mouth
breathing.
There are just so many factors.
I love what you say because Iknow sometimes in our practice
when we do just the Silhan I'mtrying to explain that gut
connection people can glaze overright, and if you have an hour,
(16:55):
hour and a half tops in a pair,how do you get all that?
And for me, I'm like I'musually popping in while I'm
treating other patients, sothat's where I console in silha
and a lot of the doctors.
This is the biggest thing.
Like, how do you have thatconversation?
So the advantage of themicroscope is boom, okay, they
see it right there, because thepsilocybe is great too.
(17:17):
Actually, see, when you'reseeing your own saliva on that,
that's even a bigger picturethere.
Okay, whoa, look at.
So that still has.
We're seeing white blood cells.
All right, we're gonna swab.
Let's look at this, the slidehere, my goodness, yeah.
And so let's say you have thatperson, okay, and if they are
(17:39):
brushing and flossing, very well, maybe even they're using mouth
rinse, which I'm not a huge fanof, but you're seeing, like the
spirochetes and stuff like that.
So walk me through what is yourfirst conversation with them,
if they feel like you mentionedthe biofilm.
So you said you're going togive them a water pick.
Do you recommend that they use?
(18:00):
Tell us a little bit about thewater pick, what you might put
in it and why that's important.
Tosha Kozloski (18:05):
Yeah.
So with patients I don'texplain to them like I would
explain to my clinicians and thedoctors that I work with.
I keep it extraordinarilysimple, and so my verbal scripts
.
If this was you and I did myfull mouth periodontal charting
and I saw some signs andsymptoms of inflammation, I
would say, wow, dr Carver, I'mseeing some inflammation,
redness and even bleeding inyour gum tissue.
(18:26):
I'm going to take a plaquesample to see if there's
something going on.
Now we look at the microscope.
Let's say there's frantic, allkinds of creepy crawlers all
over there.
Then most of the time thepatient looks at them and goes
that's in my mouth.
And then I say, yes, thisdefinitely explains the
inflammation I was seeing inyour mouth today.
So I want to connect back.
Like what you're seeing here iswhat I was seeing.
Because for the most part, theseinfections are subclinical and
(18:49):
some of our patients believethey've had bleeding their
entire lives.
So we have to disrupt theirinitial thought and also disrupt
the autopilot of these hygienevisits too, because just like
patients come in and they thinkthey're going to get their teeth
cleaned, they're just expectingthat when they see one of us
hygienists.
It's not their fault.
We've trained them that way.
(19:09):
So we have to say, oh, I'mseeing a change, or oh, wow,
this is what it is today.
And then I see that franticslide.
Then I keep it to someanalogies that anyone can
understand.
I say think of these bacterialike termites in the foundation
of a house.
They live deep inside your gumtissue, not just on top of it,
which is why coming in hereregularly doing a really great
job with your home care isn'table to fight it off.
(19:29):
Like, basically, these bad bugsor bad bacteria, however that
practice wants to call it.
I leave that up to them.
Like, so they can for theirpatient base.
Like, how do they want to saythat?
But for these bad bacteria,they've overpowered your good
bacteria, so your immune systemis really struggling taking care
of them.
So what we need to do is notthat traditional cleaning Think
of the cleanings we've beendoing like a routine car wash.
(19:50):
What you now need is the fulldetail, really spending time
getting the nooks and cranniesplaces we just can't reach with
the traditional cleaning.
There's going to be somehomework on top of it and
several visits with me, so thenI'm like engaging them into oh,
I found, she found somethingdifferent, he found something
different.
Now we need to do somethingdifferent.
So that's my initialconversation.
Most of the time the patientsokay, yeah, get those out, what
(20:10):
do we need to do?
But then it's.
I learned this from anotherbiological dentist.
The way that she explains it toher patient is we take a
three-tier approach.
First is what are we going todo for you in the practice.
Second is what are you going todo for yourself at home?
And the third is your immuneresponse.
So that's when we can link backto their medical history.
So first, what we're going todo for you in the practice,
we'll explain that.
I'll explain to the patientlike that full detail includes,
(20:33):
depending on what the practicehas, ozone, laser, whatever it
is that practice is going to useto help get that patient
healthy.
That's what it's going to befor the home care piece.
That's going to be the waterflosser, and then the
medicaments that the practicelikes.
So I work with a myriad ofpractices and so I of course
have the products that I prefer.
Normally they'll say, okay,give me the research and I'll
say, here you go, and thenthey'll be like, oh, okay.
(20:54):
And then the third tier isreally that immune response.
So, depending on what theirmedical history looks like.
Are they diabetic, are theyimmunosuppressed, do they have
rheumatoid arthritis and they'realso taking immunosuppressant
drug, then we've got a wholehost of things.
That is also going to be partof that equation and I know this
is not going to be a coupleappointments in this patient's
fixed.
This is going to be perhaps ayear of getting the patient to
(21:17):
health, and every single timeI'm going to take a slide so I
can know if I'm decreasingvolume, decreasing motility.
So with the Waterpik, I don'thave any relationship with
Waterpik, I just love theWaterpik.
I've tried a gazilliondifferent generic types and you
get what you pay for, and so Ilike that pickpocket tip I have.
Like PerioBright Cleanse is onethat a lot of practices use.
(21:38):
There's no alcohol, it'sessential oils, it tastes really
good, so compliance isexcellent.
It comes with a pump so thepatient could just do one pump
to 300 milliliters of water, andit's made to be used in the
Waterpik.
In a perfect world, everyonewould go home with ozone water,
of water, and it's made to beused in the water pick.
In a perfect world, everyonewould go home with ozone water.
But that's not a perfect worldyet I think we're going to get
there, but we're not there yet,and so then they just run around
and I show them like shape of aletter, m on the top, w on the
(21:59):
bottom.
Running around, she goes untilthe tank is empty, and so that's
like my number one thing, withthe patient's going to start to
penetrate the biofilm wall,because if they don't start
penetrating the biofilm wall,it's not going to be as good.
The second thing is toothbrushtechnique.
Don't just brush your teeth andgums like brush all of it.
Scrape your tongue.
Dr. Carver (22:18):
You know what we do for that ozone water.
We make ozone ice cubes.
We send the patients home withice cubes so that'll last them a
little while, so they can onlytake.
They take one out at a time,because if we just give ozone
water, we know over time that itdiminishes.
Tosha Kozloski (22:32):
Yeah, yeah, Within a couple hours it's water
.
Dr. Carver (22:34):
So we bought these big silicone molds and we send
them home with the ice cubes, sothat's a really nice way to.
Yeah, maybe we're just going tohave an ozone machine, which
they're becoming.
The podcast I just did was withPromo Life.
They have that Tumblr.
Yeah, at home, like they'remaking them very affordable and
(22:55):
if you have one modality at home, spend your money at one thing
bozone yes, what that can do isamazing, so I also like their
new my new favorite powder.
They have one that has ozone.
It tastes really good.
Some of them with those on it's.
It can taste very chlorine.
Tosha Kozloski (23:11):
Yeah.
The oils, yeah, can be a littletoo much for a lot of pigeons.
Dr. Carver (23:15):
I'm a fan.
It cuts right through thatbiofilm.
So that's really exciting.
So, again, really important.
What that water pick is doingAgain that regular brushing and
flossing can't do is break thebiofilm, Just like you said.
Like how you described that,Like a jacket on there, like the
waterproof jacket.
Nothing is getting through that.
And I also love your analogy ofregular car wash versus now.
(23:36):
You need to be detailed, Ithink that's.
That image is awesome andthat's so important.
Right, Same thing with thetermites.
Like we can't, we got to getdeeper down in there where the
brushing and the flossing cannotreach so some of the other
modalities.
Tell me how you use the lasersand ozone when you're doing
periode treatment and why thoseare beneficial.
Tosha Kozloski (23:54):
Yeah, so depending on what the practice
has.
So a lot of my practices haveat least ozone water.
A good number of them also haveozone gas and then laser.
Protocols, depending on thestate, are going to vary.
So if a practice has, let's saythey have all the things, so if
(24:15):
they have a laser and they canuse it as initiated tip, then
what we're going to kick off theappointment with is they're
going to swish with ozone wateras their pretreatment swish and
then they'll run around withtheir LBR, their uninitiated tip
, because that laser canpenetrate into the gum tissue up
to five millimeters andstimulate those fiber blasts and
start that healing process andreally help to supercharge the
good, the immune system.
And then from there they'll usetheir if they have ultrasonics
(24:38):
I try to whether it's a Cavitronor a Piezo or however they do
if they can use ozone water.
In that it's like killing twobirds with one stone versus one
more step.
And so for the most partthey'll use their Piezo or their
Cavitron or GBT, whichever theyhave, and they'll full mouth
irrigate, disrupting any biofilm, breaking up any calculus, any
(24:59):
debris cleaning as well, likeold fashioned scaling and root
planning, but really focused onthe biofilm and then they'll go
in with their and then they'lldo whatever fine scaling they
need and then they'll add theozone gas if they have that as
well to that entire appointment.
So they would do that and then,if they also can initiate their
laser tip, they'll finalizewith that, because that
(25:20):
initiated laser tip is likewiping away all the necrotic
tissue at the end to then helpagain, and that heat also helps
with the healing process and ofcourse the gas is going to be
able to penetrate into thetissue too.
So it can.
A little bit crazy when peoplehave all the different
technologies.
I would say most don't haveevery single thing, so it's just
(25:40):
going to depend on what theyhave.
When I first started seeingbone regrowing, I didn't have
all these wonderful things and Istill was able to see bone
regrowing on implants, verticaldefects, patients getting so
much healthier saying I don'tknow what it is, I just feel
better.
Or just other spontaneousrecoveries eye infections that
they're going to have surgeryfrom an ophthalmologist go away
as soon as they got their oralhealth under control, because
(26:03):
sometimes that's just enough tomake them reflect and go.
Why do I have an infection inmy mouth?
Why do I?
Dr. Carver (26:13):
have this imbalance and when we're doing these kinds
of things, we're diminishingthat bucket.
Right, we're reducing thatbucket, yeah.
So now, once we take the burden, the immune system, take the
burden out of the mouth, theimmune system can get that high
infection and can get the otherinfections throughout the body.
So, again, that's why I thinkwhat we do is exciting, because
it's accessible and the patientcan do things from home, too
that really make it.
(26:34):
But it has to go beyond that.
Brushing and flossing, yes, too, that really make it.
But it has to go beyond that.
Brushing and flossing, yes, andthat's exciting.
And what we're traditionallytaught is, once the bone's gone,
it's gone forever.
That's too bad, but we now knowthe body knows how to
regenerate itself.
Right, we just got to removethat infection.
(26:55):
And the laser is so amazing.
The red lights, thatphotobiomodulation, all that is
so amazing for healing andstimulating.
And we don't realize how muchthe body communicates by light.
But this is why sunlight is soimportant.
Yeah, Because internal and wethink it's probably pretty dark
in there, but no photons.
When we're absorbing photons,they are communicating in the
(27:16):
cells.
So now they have a lot oflittle devices that look like
mouse guards.
Right that photons, they arecommunicating in the cells.
So now they have a lot oflittle devices that look like
mouse guards, right, that havered and blue light on them,
which I think is another thingthat somebody can have to do at
home.
Because I was telling to thedentist, the hygienist, for once
every I don't know, maybeinitially every six weeks or
something, or if you're regularevery six months.
What are you doing?
(27:37):
in that interim so there areother things that we can do,
especially somebody who has anyperio issues.
What are the other things inbiohacking?
We call them stack, stack, andso when you have the ozone plus
the red light, plus the laser,right, we're stacking all these
things, which makes the healingand the recovery and all that so
much quicker.
So these things that you canadd in without being such,
(28:02):
sometimes when you're adding somany different habits, like
people aren't gonna do them.
But that's why one benefit ofhaving that microscope when
somebody actually sees all thoseweird things wiggling out, that
might be a little bit more.
Tosha Kozloski (28:12):
They're motivated, they're super
motivated.
I compare I so much compare themicroscope to intraoral
photography.
We wouldn't dream of so manypractices have a different.
Like scanners.
There's different scanners.
There's extra-oral photography,inter-oral photography.
That's not just for us, that'salso to show the patient what
exactly is going on.
(28:33):
It's so much easier and whenour brain can visualize the
problem, they automatically canvisualize the solution.
So if they see a bunch of stuffrunning around in their mouth
and they go like what they want,is it not to be so?
Bridging the gap is easier.
So it's like, oh, you need meto do this at home.
Dr. Carver (28:50):
Okay, fine, and it's so important because most oral
disease is asymptomatic, right,we don't realize we have gum
disease, we don't know we havean abscess, right, and sometimes
, even if it's a huge abscess,you bite down and it feels a
little weird, but notnecessarily painful, right,
that's why we have to doradiographs, because there are
so many things we don't see yet.
(29:11):
They are a huge burden to ourimmune system.
Just a list of pretty muchevery chronic disease.
You can find a correlation tooral bacteria, right, because,
again, like you talked aboutsome of those, one of the major
toxins is LPS, like alipopolysaccharide we know.
That directly damagesendothelial cells, which are the
(29:32):
cells that line blood vessels.
You get damage.
Then all of a sudden, yourcholesterol is going to go
higher, because that's thesignal for the liver to send
some LDL to patch up all thedamage.
But we know it's I getconcerned.
Patients have infections intheir maxilla.
The roots of an upper tooth arevery close to the sinus, which
is one thin membrane away fromthe brain.
(29:53):
So is it any surprise that wehave oral bacteria connected to
dementia?
Right, we know, we all talkabout the microglial cells,
which are the immune cells inthe brain and those kind of
create these.
We're always so worried aboutthe plaques, right, the amyloid
plaques in the brain.
Drugs were targeted to get ridof these plaques, when in fact,
(30:13):
the plaques are actually aresult of bacteria causing
damage and activating themicroglia.
So, just like LDL cholesterol,the bad cholesterol helps
bandage up blood vessels in theperiphery of our body.
Those amyloid plaques areprotecting the infections in the
brain, so we need to remove theinfections.
(30:33):
And then the plaques arecreating issues.
So you can think of thatanywhere in the body and oral
bacteria and other kind ofmicrobes in general are some of
the major problems.
Right, and I say all the time onthis podcast toxins and
infections.
Toxins and infection that'swhat's causing disease.
So let's stop blaming all theseother things and let's try to
(30:55):
but and that's why we need someof the these better testing,
right, so we have to garner thedays when we're just the
hygienist and be like, if youdon't have bleeding, you're all
healthy.
Yeah, because we know we havethese other tools now and we
know the more we can prevent,the healthier these patients can
be.
So when you have somebody whois set up a regimen for them,
(31:18):
how often do you want to seethese.
Obviously, it depends on theperson, but generally when
you're finding something, howoften do you think they should
be seen so that you can check onthe progress?
Or how often do you think theyneed the ozone treatment or the
laser?
Tosha Kozloski (31:32):
Yeah, it's always going to be based on how
they look every single time thatthey come in.
If somebody is, they haveradiographic bone loss, they
have that pocketing.
So they, let's say they qualifyfor the CDT for full mouth
scaling and root planing.
So we're going to code it thatway, because scaling and root
planing is inclusive of removalof toxins and microorganisms.
The patient does not have tohave calculus, they simply have
(31:53):
to have roots to scale, to codeit that way.
But calculus is just if it'sthere, great, get rid of it.
If not, don't worry about it.
But they're going to come infor a full mouth treatment.
So I train teams like you maybe focused on the debris, let's
say on the right side, butyou're still going to run around
the entire mouth with the laser, with the ozone, with
everything.
And then you're going to tellthe patient I'm going to bring
(32:15):
you back next cleaning.
But we're going to get in thenooks and crannies on the left
side, but we're still going totreat the entire mouth.
We're going to get you back sixweeks later.
We're going to look at themicroscope again.
Based on how you look good, bador otherwise we're going to
determine what we need to donext.
If a patient still doesn't lookgood, then maybe they need to
come back in another four to sixweeks to then treat their
(32:36):
entire mouth again.
And then that's really whereyou can really tell so fast with
just looking, not just at theirtissue, because obviously some
infections are so subclinical,but if their microscope slide is
already showing a significantdecreased volume, decreased
motility, you know that theinfection is headed in the right
direction.
The immune system is takingback over.
But let's say that patient'sdoing everything they're
(32:58):
supposed to do.
You've done everything you'resupposed to do and that
microscope still looks awful.
Now we need to investigatefurther that third tier of what
do we do professionally.
What is the patient doing athome?
Let's look at their medicalhistory.
For me I don't want to say likeI drag this out, but sometimes
if we give the patient too muchinformation, they get decision
fatigue and they're like I'mjust not ready.
So I just share with them.
Hey, let's start with this.
(33:19):
We're going to see how you'reat in six weeks and then at six
weeks, depending on howeverything looks, we're going to
determine if we need to addanything, if you're on the right
track.
And I don't overwhelm them withthat, because I know I want you
to be a lifelong patient andI'm going to work with you over
time at six weeks.
If they're a hot mess, thenmaybe we need to take a deeper
dive into the gut health.
(33:39):
If the practice doesn't want totake a deep dive into the gut
health, then we're alwayslooking at who can you refer to
or are you willing to do somedirect-to-consumer products?
Viome has tests.
There's a bunch of differentones online, but there's all
kinds of different things we cando.
If we're not ready to do it inour practice, we need to at
least know where we can sendthat patient to get that whole
health coverage.
Dr. Carver (34:00):
That's so important.
And again, thinking back to allmy still hot conversations
about patients that's what DrSadie meant I don't know how to
have that conversation and Idon't want to overwhelm them.
I don't know what to say.
So the way you're doing is soimportant in that three tier
that makes so much sense here.
Let's just start with thebasics.
If that's six weeks, I lovethat, so that's a good interval.
(34:21):
At six weeks we reevaluate.
Okay, we're trending upward.
It's good, let's go two monthsnow, right?
Yeah, as long as you keeptrending, Our goal always is to
get them back to once or twice ayear cleaning.
We've got to see that they'remaking progress and maintaining
that right.
So it's frustrating when you'rein the confines of conventional
(34:44):
medicine and the insurancesystem.
The fact that insurances onlyallow you to do one side of the
mouth at a time makes no sense.
That you have to have thepatient come back two weeks
later, just like what you said.
You can't ignore the other side, right?
If you clean one side, what isthere?
Tosha Kozloski (35:00):
suddenly some wait, mom swept the floor over
there.
Don't touch that side.
Dr. Carver (35:06):
It just logically makes so sense.
So that's what I told myhygienist to do.
You still have to do all theozone treatment and a little bit
of laser on both sides.
Yes, you can focus on one sideand getting the calculus out for
that side, but the wholebecause you're going to easily
just reinsert to the other side.
It's crazy and that's why,unfortunately, so many patients
(35:29):
are so many bylaws like, aremoving away from insurance
because it's handcuffing up tobe able to do what we need to do
.
And, yes, it's frustrating, itgets expensive.
And I had a conversation with apatient today was like listen,
he asked me if we could just dothe cavities and not the gum
(35:49):
disease.
And he has severe radiographicevidence.
And I said one, if your gumsare bleeding I can't do a
filling, it's not going to stick.
And number two, I said I am waymore concerned about your gum
health than I am about the fewcavities that you have, because
every time you chew and everytime you swallow you are pumping
all of those toxins directlyinto your circulation.
(36:12):
Right?
So I said, if money isn't, wewill work with you.
I don't want money to be abarrier to your overall health.
So let's think about this, ofinvesting in your overall health
, because again, all of thisbacteria causes systemic issues.
So by investing in this oralhealth we're going to prevent a
lot of money and time.
It's more future healthproblems.
(36:33):
But it's hard to have thatconversation because again,
money always gets stuff stickyand insurance doesn't cover this
and that what we are alwaystrying to do is prevention.
But it's hard, especially whensomebody doesn't hurt.
That asymptomatic part is thetrickiest part and that's why
(37:02):
the photographs and themicroscope like these are
important tools to have to beable to show the value of kind
of what they've been, especiallywhen they come back and they
can see oh my gosh, you'remaking progress, you're getting
a good report card that helpsfurther motivate people to
continue.
But yeah, that's always thechallenge If something is not
hurting and impeding theireveryday life and it costs a
thousand plus dollars, then thatcan sometimes be a hard pill to
(37:25):
swallow.
So that's what our goal isalways education.
This is why I'm doing mypodcast.
I just create that awarenessand helping people to understand
that they have the power tohave good health.
We all have the power to be ourown best doctor.
I would love to never have topick up a drill ever again,
because everybody will havesolved all of their health
problems and I will feel likeI've done my job on this earth
(37:49):
and I can go on to the next,whatever else is next.
Tosha Kozloski (37:51):
Right.
Dr. Carver (37:52):
So yes, absolutely so.
I think that's that's what I'malways trying to teach.
And having people like hey, wehave these great tools now and
there's so much that patientscan do at home.
Now, too, red light has becomeso easy.
You can go on Amazon and buy ared light for $50 now, so that's
(38:12):
really exciting for people touse that when they if they do
have pain or swelling oranything like that.
It's exciting that they knowthat these tools are out there.
Tosha Kozloski (38:23):
Yeah, yeah, yeah .
Patients, when they and I'vetold so many people you don't
have to do all the things atonce, sometimes it just takes a
little bit of helping the bodyand it takes care of itself
Absolutely.
It's just those little nudges,just little tweaks and
modifications, and it'sincredible what the body can do.
Dr. Carver (38:43):
What do you think about so?
Typically we had inconventional medicine it was
like, okay, you can do yourscalp cleaning and then we're
going to put antibioticsdirectly in the pocket, say like
Crested.
How do you feel about thosekind of antibiotics directly in
pockets?
Tosha Kozloski (39:01):
Oh gosh.
So I am not a huge fan ofarrestin Like.
For me, I feel like, if I wouldsay, the majority of the
biological dentists I work withdo some systemic antibiotics
when the patient's just notgetting better.
And it's that weed feed seedmodel, like we've tried
everything, you're not.
This patient just not gettingbetter and it's that weed feed
seed model, like we've triedeverything, you're not.
(39:22):
This patient isn't gettingbetter.
And they're typically those veryhigh risk patients that have
diabetes, that they havemultiple things, they have
history of heart attacks,history of stroke.
They're these patients thattheir body's been waving the
white flag for a long time andso it's fighting fire with fire,
like chemotherapy if you will.
And so when it comes tolocalized, this is like putting
(39:46):
them in the pockets.
For me, I share with thepractice.
If they're already using thatbefore they would onboard
somebody like me, I don'trecommend to start there because
it's not a localized infection.
This isn't a localized problem,it's a full body issue.
But if the patient has avertical defect, that's very
difficult for them to hit with awater flosser and it is just an
area that's continuallycollecting biofilm that's
(40:07):
maturing Good At six weeks.
Put some in there, let's seehow it goes as an adjunctive,
but I wouldn't start there.
Dr. Carver (40:17):
So I think that's important and that's how I treat
my feet.
But I have noticed some ofthese things where we're
treating with the ozone, which Ilove, but I'm like in some
areas like one single pocketright Can't get, and I have
noticed that when I use a restand plus the ozone because ozone
actually enhances the effect ofantibiotics I can get
resolution of these little likeperiod pockets.
But again, it is never my firstcourse of treatment but, like
(40:41):
you said, you have theserecalcitrant areas that they're
just not getting any better andthat combination I've seen it a
few times with patients.
They will resolve things, yeah,and I've had to come to I don't
know what the right word is butthe use of antibiotics.
(41:01):
For so many years I've beenlike I'm just so against it,
right.
But even then I had a patientcome to me.
She had a really major absencewith swelling, so she received
some antibiotics and she saidthat really resolved all my gut
issues too.
And I went, huh, I was likemaybe I need to rethink this a
little bit.
Just like you said, the weedseed, all right, sometimes maybe
(41:25):
we do so.
My daughter two years ago shehad pneumonia Wasn't so bad yet,
but she's had this horriblebreath I'm sure she would love
me telling this story and herteeth, everything looked fine in
her mouth.
And so like there's somethingin her gut, like her stomach is
festering something, this is sobad.
And so when she got the, theytested her when she was sick and
(41:48):
so I brought her to the doctorbecause that's the only way I
could get her excused fromschool for being sick.
So I said run all the tests.
I love testing, I love to seewhat's going on.
And I wanted to know, like why,what is happening in her gut
that's creating this issue.
And so it came back that shehad a specific bacteria that was
related to pneumonia.
She never developed anysymptoms, but that's what came
back in the culture.
(42:08):
And so I said you know what?
I'm going to give her theantivax.
I'm just I'm going to do it.
And let me tell you, it's beena year now like that breath is
gone.
Been a year now like thatbreath is gone.
So then I'm like, yep,sometimes maybe you just need to
nuke it and start over right.
Tosha Kozloski (42:24):
Get her on the better diet it's so tricky, yeah
.
Dr. Carver (42:26):
But I'm like, wow, okay, but I had to have that
patient say it to me first forme to like okay.
So sometimes we get narrowminded, whether you're
conventional or biologic orwhatever it is.
So now I'm always trying tothink okay and yes, obviously
sometimes we need medication andthank God we have conventional
(42:47):
medicine and it's going to saveus in an emergency and stuff
like that and we don't need toalways poo it.
Tosha Kozloski (42:52):
But again, have having an open mind that use it
when it's responsibleantibiotics responsible, not
overdoing it, because indentistry we are super guilty of
over antibiotic gene and overall kinds of different things
and we don't always need asledgehammer.
And I know a dentist that shespecializes in fertility and she
(43:14):
, like people come from all overthe united states to help to
get pregnant.
We know that when it comes toinfertility, it's's not.
We hear all about these pretermbirth and all this kind of
stuff but it's not.
Getting pregnant in the firstplace is a huge part of it, and
that's the man and the woman.
And so if they have a seriousdysbiosis in their mouth and
they have specific bacteria, weknow that if they're releasing
toxins and that whole cascade ofevents.
(43:36):
And she said for two years shewas like I just don't want to do
antibiotics anymore.
And she said she just couldn'tget rid of the fusobacterium,
she couldn't get rid of some ofthe porphyrmonia gingivalis, and
so she went back to it and justsaid I just sometimes.
And so what I share withpractices is you got to use a
decision tree.
Are you dealing with a 25 yearold or an 85 year old that has a
(43:56):
medical history that's so long.
It takes you 15 minutes just toskim it.
Are we dealing with somebodythat's on immunosuppressant
drugs?
Or is this like a 45-year-oldthat was probably just burning
the candle at both ends notgetting enough sleep, too much
stress, like all the differentthings and now their body is out
of whack?
Like you can always do anantibiotic later if you're not
(44:18):
getting resolved and you've usedyour decision tree of age and
health and all the differentthings.
That's six weeks when they comeback, put the pieces to put the
whole thing together and thendo it later If you absolutely
have to.
You can always wait.
Dr. Carver (44:32):
And that's so important when I'm always trying
to teach and train people whowork for me.
You cannot.
We are not here to treat teeth,we are treating people.
So we have to certain and we'vealways thought, okay, let's
make a protocol, but we're likeit never works because everybody
is unique.
So you have these generalizedideas, but everything has to be
(44:52):
tailored to the person.
So now you hear all thesethings about personalized
medicine.
Yes, it's really.
And why do all thesepharmaceutical drugs have so
many side effects?
Because you're throwing onedrug at all these different
people who are completely uniquebeings.
So of course, you're going tohave side effects, right?
So we need to look at I lovewhat you're saying right.
Think about the person thatyou're treating and that is
(45:15):
going to have their decisiontree, right?
Or their protocol is going tolook a little bit differently.
So I love how you have thegeneralizations right.
Like the person who has so manysystems, maybe they need that
antibiotic, right, becausethey're so far down the systemic
inflammation trail that regularnatural modalities aren't going
(45:36):
to be powerful enough, becausethe toxic vote is so high that
we need to nuke it a little bit.
Versus, like you said, the25-year-old, our best example,
right, is that 45-year-old?
I love how you said burning atboth ends, right?
I know nothing about that Meeither.
Those of us who are like, yeah,we're just really deficient,
right, we're not sleeping enough, we're not eating as well as we
(45:57):
could, we're just deficient ina lot of minerals and all these
kinds of things.
So that person is, yeah, you'regoing to support them a little
better nutritionally.
Tosha Kozloski (46:04):
Okay, we need to be getting our sleep better, I
think that's If you do theantibiotic like no, like you are
killing good guys too.
So you must have a protocolafterwards.
You can't just be like goodluck yeah.
Dr. Carver (46:16):
Especially today.
Right, you're just not going to?
The food is so deficient todaythat you can.
Maybe a generation ago it wouldbuild itself back up but our
food is just so toxicGlyphosate's everywhere.
I don't think there's anythingthat's organic anymore, because
it's in the soil, it's in theair.
Maybe it has fewer toxins andfewer pesticides.
Everything's got stuff in itright.
(46:38):
So I love everything you'resaying.
This has been awesome.
I think you've been giving ussome really good tools.
I can't wait to have you comein my office and help.
We have all the stuff, so justworking again, and really we
don't have the microscope,though, and I've been on that
sense for so many years.
How are we going to add onemore thing?
(46:58):
But then, when I met you andyou're a consultant and you
train everybody how to do it alltogether, because nobody wants
to have a three-hour hygieneappointment.
That's not practical, so I thinkso I'm excited for you to come
up to the office and meet allthe girls, and we have a new
hygienist starting and she'ssuper into all the biologic, and
so I I'm like I'm starting heroff right from the top line.
(47:20):
We're not going to teach, we'regoing to erase all the bad
habits she learned, get out theground running.
So really excited about this.
But I think you've given us allsome good tips and hopefully
helping people understand whythey, why they might need to
come more frequently and how,again, we are here not to make
more money off you by seeing youmore often, but to prevent the
(47:42):
future issues that we know areall connected to oral bacteria
and their toxins, so I reallyappreciate you coming on today.
Is there anything else wedidn't mention that you want to
tell our audience?
Tosha Kozloski (47:55):
Gosh, I don't know.
I feel like we hit a lot.
So if they want to nerd outwith me on Instagram, I'm at
Tosh T-O-S-H.
Dot C-A-R-E.
I have at Toshcare.
I have all kinds of good nerdystuff there, so come check it
out if you need a nerd boost.
Dr. Carver (48:09):
And let's say there are other doctors listening and
maybe they want to have youconsult their hygiene department
.
How do they reach you?
Tosha Kozloski (48:20):
Yeah, so they can schedule a call with me if
they go to my website, which isall.
It was just Tosh T-O-S-H dotcare.
So Tosh dot care.
There's a scheduling link thereand you can just schedule a
call and we can chit, chat and Ican learn more about their
practice and we can see if we'rea match.
Dr. Carver (48:32):
Yeah, I think it would be great if we could have
universal treatments foreverybody, and they're all a
little bit for everybody.
We have to individualize them.
If we know all these greattools to use and see how
valuable they are, I think thatwill go a long way to help curve
all this chronic disease thatwe have in the world today.
All right, everybody, I hopeyou enjoyed, got some good
(48:55):
information from today's episodeand, if you liked it, please
share it with others.
Help us create that awarenessfor everyone and I hope you have
a wonderful day.
We'll see you on the nextepisode.
Hello, I'm Dr Rachel Carver, aboard-certified naturopathic
biologic dentist and a certifiedhealth coach.
(49:16):
Did you know that over 80% ofthe US population has some form
of gum disease?
Many of us don't even know thatwe have this source of chronic
infection and inflammation inour mouth that's been linked to
serious consequences like heartdisease, diabetes, stroke,
dementia, colon cancer, kidneydisease, even pregnancy
complications.
Would you like to learn how toreverse and prevent these
(49:39):
chronic debilitating conditionswithout spending a lot of time
and money at the dentist?
Join me for my six-week coursewhere I will teach you the root
cause of disease.
You'll learn how to be your ownbest doctor.
Are you ready to get started?
Let's go.
Hello everybody, welcome back to another episode
of the Root of the Matter.
I am your host, dr RachelCarver, and today we have the
pleasure of speaking with TashaKodolowski, who is a registered
dental hygienist and aconsultant.
I met her at a biologic dentalconference and we had a great
conversation.
She was showing the microscopeand all and she did.
(00:21):
My sample showed me it waspretty good.
But she helps practicestransform their approach to
periodontal care.
So gum disease and it's reallygood at teaching these newer
modalities that we love, such asthe microscope and salivary
diagnostics.
We've had the owner, one of theowners of Bristle Health, on to
talk to us a little bit aboutwhat we can do with saliva.
(00:41):
That field is exploding becausewe're using saliva now for
cancer diagnosis, like all sortsof great.
It's wonderful because it's notexpensive, it's non-invasive,
so that's super exciting, right,and her like me.
You know we resonated reallywell because our primary goal is
prevention and we know it's somuch easier to prevent disease
than it is to treat disease.
(01:03):
And since maybe a lot of peoplesay 80% of disease comes from
the mouth, we know that oralbacteria is a cause of heart
disease, right, kidney, liver,colon cancer, dementia, anywhere
that blood flows anytime we'rechewing and swallowing, that
bacteria is getting to the restof our bodies.
So we're here to.
(01:24):
The whole point of this podcastis showing that oral connection
to disease, and the coolestthing about our profession is we
have a very accessible area towork on right.
It's a lot easier to treat gumdisease in the mouth than it is
to treat, say, colon cancer orany other kind of intestinal
inflammation.
Thank you, tasha, for coming on.
Why don't you tell us a littlebit about your story, why you
(01:46):
got interested in dental hygieneand how it transformed into
this consultant job?
Tosha Kozloski (01:52):
Yeah, like all of us, I guess it's an evolution
, right, dr Carver?
I don't think I ever set off inhygiene school to want to do
all the things that I'm doingtoday, but, as it goes, one
thing leads to the next, leadsto the next, and probably from
sixth grade though, I was alwaysa nerd and wanted to be a
dental hygienist.
My mom was a dental assistant,always loved going to our local
(02:15):
dentist, lived in a tiny littletown in rural North Dakota one
dentist for all the ruralcommunity and I was no stranger
and lots of cavities.
Growing up, both of my parentshad significant gum like
problems, so my dad had severeperiodontal disease, my mom had
a lot of restorative decayissues, and just the not because
(02:36):
they were lack of caring orthey didn't take care of their
teeth, it was just there wassomething more going on that
they didn't know about, and sotherefore, with us being the
children, we had a lot of thosesame issues, and so when I got
to hygiene school, I justthought man perio is where I'm
going to be able to make adifference.
Working in GP practice is justgoing to be healthy, pro fees
all day long.
I'll probably get so bored withthat Little did.
(02:59):
I know we all face perio.
No, it doesn't matter whereyour practice is, even if it's a
pedo practice.
And so once I got, once Igraduated, I really wanted to
work for a periodontist, gotlucky enough to land a job
working for a periodontistsimultaneously worked for a GP
practice.
Three doctors, 10 hygienistslots of contrast there, right.
But what they had in commonwere that most of my patients
(03:19):
bled all day long and what I didat the perio office was
preparation for flap surgeriesand different things like that.
If somebody was referred forperiodontal disease, we're
talking stage three.
These were not easily restoredmouths.
These were patients that hadlost teeth due to gum disease,
collapsed bites, all on X wasn'ta thing 20 years ago.
But even if it was, I thinkback to it now and I'm not
(03:41):
really sure how easy some ofthose patients could have been
restored with that anyway,because everything shifts right.
They don't.
Periodontal patients don't loseteeth like all at once.
It's like little by little allkinds of things are happening,
and so I just got really curiousabout man.
There's got to be a way.
It can't be normal for all ofmy patients to bleed like this.
And so within a year I justthought that everyone bled, it
(04:05):
was normal.
And then I finally had apatient that and I wanted to
treat with scaling and rootplaning all those traditional
diagnostics.
But I finally had a patientthat looked at me one day and
she said Tasha, what do I do?
I don't want to lose my teeth.
And I was like I literally hadno idea she had gone through
scaling and root planing.
She was one of these patientsthat spent 20 minutes easily
twice a day immaculate home care.
(04:25):
She was diabetic.
Even recommending scaling androot planing felt wrong because
I was like what am I going to doin there?
There's like nothing to cleanoff, so fast forward.
I moved to Tennessee, found adoctor that was as passionate as
I was about perio and found outabout saliva testing, so
started doing saliva testing in2008.
That was like a game changer.
(04:47):
I immediately thought of coursethis makes sense.
All of a sudden that reallymade sense and I really did see
patients getting better boneregrowing without LENAP, without
laser, without any advancedtechnology, truly, except for
just a better understanding andgoing after the bacterial
infection, understanding thehost immune system and that
whole piece.
Then a microscope wasintroduced to us and that was
(05:11):
just that was a bigger gamechanger than salivary
diagnostics, simply because somany patients looked good.
And then you would look attheir slide and it was.
It was that connection.
It was that all infectionsstart subclinically, just like
if you get strep throat, youdon't all of a sudden have strep
like you have to come incontact with it, your immune
(05:32):
system doesn't fight it off, andso that was the aha moment for
me and for my patients.
Dr. Carver (05:38):
Claude's for a second there, because everything
you say is amazing and this iswhat I think is such the game
changer, because so often welook at our patients they're
like they're fine, they're not,their guns aren't, they're just,
they're fine, but they're notLike you said.
I talk to patients and my kidsall the time about the bucket,
right, you don't really developa symptom until that bucket is
full.
You've been adding in thosetoxins, you've been adding in
(06:00):
all this stuff and then all ofus, it feels sometimes all of a
sudden I have a simple like myeczema, which brought me on this
journey, like it was buildingfor years and years.
I didn't all of a sudden it feltlike it.
All of a sudden I had all theserashes all over hands, but it
was years and years of all sortsof things right, building up,
and then the perfect storm.
(06:21):
Right, because it's never justone thing right, it's just the
combination, the immune systembreaking down.
Right, because our bodies areamazingly adaptable.
We can heal from almostanything.
So when we're prevention, wewant to look at what are those
root causes?
Right?
And so, even for myself, whenwe first started doing the silha
testing, I was like whoa, whyam I showing protein and white
(06:45):
blood cells in my saliva?
I'm like I have perfect gum.
They never bleed, I don't haveany cavities, like, everything
is good.
But that was really the key tome.
Wow, there's something and, asmost of us, we're always dealing
with trying to heal our guts,keep them as clean as possible.
So I was like I am alwaysworking on that gut.
So that to me, when I do thatsilha, which is a screening test
(07:13):
, I'm looking for evidence ofinflammation, and I see that I'm
always looking okay with thatBecause in my opinion which
maybe you share this with thegung disease, that is a systemic
problem.
I believe it's autoimmune.
Tosha Kozloski (07:23):
It doesn't.
We're not just like hanging outhere and going oh, I'm just
going to swim here.
We have 60,000 miles of bloodvessels.
I tell every hygienist, if yousee any bleeding not bleeding on
probing any bleeding in therewhy?
Why is the gum tissueessentially getting a paper cut?
And if it does, then anythingthat's in the mouth is going to
be circulating the rest of thebody.
We, anything that's in themouth is going to be circulating
the rest of the body.
We found porphyromodousgingivalis in the brain.
(07:45):
We found these types ofbacteria in the cloths of
patients that have had heartattacks and strokes.
How did they get there?
Dr. Carver (07:51):
Exactly and why we have ignored this connection for
so long is baffling.
It's easier right For everybodyto stay in their own little box
.
And we super specialized inmedicine and dentistry and
everybody just stays in theirbox.
Where we need the doctors ofold, where where we say, hey,
the whole body is connected, howdo we get back to nature and
(08:14):
all stuff?
Yeah, so when you first talkedabout, when you moved to
Tennessee and you were startingdoing what were, what were you
looking for in these salivarysaliva tests?
I assume maybe it was like theoral ID kind of thing.
What was that showing?
Tosha Kozloski (08:29):
So with the saliva test that I used
initially, like the first onewas, eventually it was sold and
now it's oral DNA.
But it was the precursor tothat.
It was Hein Diagnostics thatcame from Germany, brought here
and the lab was in Germany, andthen you shipped everything to
them, brought here and the labwas in Germany, and then you
shipped everything to them.
And but when we first just didsaliva testing, it was we saw
(08:51):
positive signs and symptoms ofperiodontal disease.
So I was still very muchlimited to my traditional
diagnostic parameters, not quiterealizing that I was being very
reactive.
But when I was being reactive Iwas seeing such great results
when I did take that patientthrough therapy and didn't just
try to remove the debris thatreally had nothing to do with
the infection in the first place.
But to pass your clinicalboards you need to be able to
(09:14):
get rid of all that gunk on thepatient's mouth and teeth and
mouth.
And it was really more when Igot the microscope and we
started taking slides oneveryone and looking at their
biofilm that all of a sudden itwas a game changer, simply
because I saw patients thatlooked great.
They didn't have any bleedingpoints, they didn't have redness
(09:34):
and inflammation.
But they did have spirochetes,amoeba, white blood cells, all
these things that they shouldn'thave if they're healthy.
And those were also thepatients that I would do my full
mouth probe chart and I wouldsay everything looks great.
Dr Carver, We'll get you shinedup and we'll get you out of
here.
And then I would see all thisbleeding and I thought, oh my
gosh, what do I do?
Oh, sorry, Dr Carver, I waswrong.
(09:56):
What do I do now?
Oh, by the way, I'm halfwaythrough my appointment.
I don't have time to convertthis into a difficult prophy.
Back then we didn't even have agingivitis code, which still is
very misunderstood, but wedidn't really know what to do
anyway.
And for me, I thought well,this patient already does a
great job with their home care.
What more can we do?
Anyway, I didn't know, I justdidn't know.
And so once I started to seethat bacteria and I could show
(10:19):
the patient, wow, these bacteriaare actually living inside your
gum tissue, not just on top ofit, You're not.
You came in contact with thesesomewhere Parents, partners,
pets, contaminated food anddrinking water.
We don't know.
What we do know is that yourimmune system is not fighting
them off because we're seeingthem here, and so now this is
what we need to do.
So I was able to create a lotmore proactive plans than always
just chasing these infectionsthat have a lot of times been
(10:42):
there for decades.
Dr. Carver (10:44):
Yeah, and interestingly what?
In my research?
What I found is that's what weused to think you got it from
this person.
Or people say, well, my parentshad it and so therefore I have
it.
What I believe that is reallyyou inherit kind of your ability
to detox well or not, right?
So it's not that younecessarily and yes, with
(11:04):
parents and everything we swapsaliva we swap ideally in a
healthy person you should haveto think that we never have that
.
Or rent complex bacteria is afallacy.
All of us have this bad, evenin health.
It's when it gets out ofbalance, yeah.
So the way that we think aboutagain, especially if you're
(11:25):
thinking this is an autoimmunekind of issue, in my opinion, a
lot of times it's when that gut,because we live in such a toxic
world, now right.
And if we're not detoxing thosetoxins, well.
Or, my opinion, a lot of timesit's when that gut, because we
live in such a toxic world, nowright.
And if we're not detoxing thosetoxins, well, or we're eating a
diet, that's not right for us,right, and it's creating
inflammation.
That inflammation, the gut, isone same lining, right?
So we could be having a gutinfection which then changes the
(11:47):
environment in the mouth too.
Absolutely, we shift Now thewhole whole environment.
This is right.
We talk about like that terraintheory, right?
So the germ theory is which iswhat conventional dash straight
built on?
It's a germ, we kill the germand everything's happy.
But we know that not to be true.
And with the beginning ofsalivary diagnostics we would be
like you know why I turned awayfrom it originally is because
(12:11):
didn't matter what the resultswere, that the recommendation
was always antibiotics.
And I'm like always I was likeI don't, yes, that kills the
stuff, but I'm like why did itbecome imbalanced in the first
place?
So we're going to nukeeverything, but then also, what
are we doing to all the gutbacteria with those antibiotics?
There's a lot of negativeconsequences for just blasting
everything and you're not reallyaddressing why the imbalance
(12:33):
happened in the first place.
So it goes deeper.
And this is why going to thedentist every six months or more
is so vital to your overallhealth, because we need to
follow your oral and we see this, like you just said, all the
time.
People have impeccable homecare.
So why does the disease persist?
Because it's deeper.
Right and again, is it diet, isit deficiency, stress?
(12:56):
Yes, everybody's got stress, soyou got all those issues and
when we have a lot of stress andwhen we have a lot of toxicity,
that creates deficiencies, soeverything gets out of whack
right.
So let's say you have thepatient come in and again their
oral care looks great.
You're not concernednecessarily with anything and
you do this, the microscoperight.
(13:19):
So you swab super easy to doyou just swab around the teeth
in a couple of places, put it ona slide.
So what are you looking forwhen you are looking on the
microscope?
Tosha Kozloski (13:31):
Yeah.
So I'm strictly looking forshapes and I don't know, based
on the shape, what that bacteriais, for example.
But what I do know is certainshapes are part of your healthy,
good, good, healthy guys thathelp your body stay healthy.
And then there's others likespirochetes, amoeba, trichinomas
.
We shouldn't find those inhealth, we shouldn't find those
in high volume, high motility.
So we're really looking for thedifference.
(13:52):
Is this a low volume, lowmotility?
There's not a whole lot goingon.
We've got short rods, we've gotcocci, all the things that we
learned in biology.
That's part of that initialbiofilm.
But as the biofilm matures itstarts to transition into those
gram negative rods and all thatkind of stuff.
And so when we see thosechanges, we know that there's
already a significant imbalance.
(14:14):
And in periodontal disease, weknow that some of those more
harmful toxin-releasing bacteriabecause, like you mentioned
earlier, we can have some ofthese bad bacteria without being
sick but it's whether or notthey're releasing a couple
different types of toxins thatdrive the inflammatory response.
So there's definitely more tothe story than what the
microscope is.
(14:35):
But we're looking for highvolume, high motility, lots of
frantic, frantic looking slide,because that tells me, hey,
there's a huge imbalance here,but it really makes that
conversation so much easier withthe patient when they see all
kinds of stuff and they're like,oh my gosh, that's in my mouth.
It's a much easier conversationthan trying to explain to them
(14:57):
the entire oral microbiome andthe oral systemic connection.
For me, my belief is keep itsuper simple.
Keep it so simple for thepatient that they know exactly
what they need to do in steps,and don't throw the kitchen sink
at them at once, because thenit turns into a new year's
resolution that by February andmost people have already quit.
And so that's where I startwith.
(15:18):
Okay, let's look at what thispatient is doing now.
Let's make some tweaks andmodifications.
If they have an extremely highrisk slide, they have positive
signs and symptoms, then we doneed to take them through some
medicated therapy.
We need to get in those nooksand crannies, disrupt and
disorganize the biofilm, helpgive their immune system a
jumpstart.
Then figure out what are youall doing at home.
Let's take a look at your dietand putting the rest of the
(15:40):
pieces together and I'll sendthem home with a water pick or
something like that that canbetter disrupt and disorganize,
because if the patient hasperiodontal disease many of
those bacteria have.
They're similar to MRSA in thatthey have that protective matrix
material around themselves forprotection.
So if our patient is onlybrushing and flossing and they
do have these bacteria that arereleasing these toxins that are
(16:02):
driving inflammation, thatprotective jacket isn't going to
be brushed and flossed away.
Their immune system is notgoing to be able to get rid of
it as easy, especially ifthey're already eating the
standard American diet,microwaving their food in
plastic, all the differentthings, so many things it's hard
to count.
If they're wearing a CPAP,they're not cleaning it properly
.
There's so many differentoffenders to all of our bodies
(16:25):
and everyone's immune system isdifferent.
I've had patients with homecare.
That is not very good.
Their gum health is fine,what's?
Dr. Carver (16:33):
happening systematically, right, it's so
important that person, maybethey are eating the right diet,
right, they're doing all theirsleeping well, they're not mouth
breathing.
There are just so many factors.
I love what you say because Iknow sometimes in our practice
when we do just the Silhan I'mtrying to explain that gut
connection people can glaze overright, and if you have an hour,
(16:55):
hour and a half tops in a pair,how do you get all that?
And for me, I'm like I'musually popping in while I'm
treating other patients, sothat's where I console in silha
and a lot of the doctors.
This is the biggest thing.
Like, how do you have thatconversation?
So the advantage of themicroscope is boom, okay, they
see it right there, because thepsilocybe is great too.
(17:17):
Actually, see, when you'reseeing your own saliva on that,
that's even a bigger picturethere.
Okay, whoa, look at.
So that still has.
We're seeing white blood cells.
All right, we're gonna swab.
Let's look at this, the slidehere, my goodness, yeah.
And so let's say you have thatperson, okay, and if they are
(17:39):
brushing and flossing, very well, maybe even they're using mouth
rinse, which I'm not a huge fanof, but you're seeing, like the
spirochetes and stuff like that.
So walk me through what is yourfirst conversation with them,
if they feel like you mentionedthe biofilm.
So you said you're going togive them a water pick.
Do you recommend that they use?
(18:00):
Tell us a little bit about thewater pick, what you might put
in it and why that's important.
Tosha Kozloski (18:05):
Yeah.
So with patients I don'texplain to them like I would
explain to my clinicians and thedoctors that I work with.
I keep it extraordinarilysimple, and so my verbal scripts
.
If this was you and I did myfull mouth periodontal charting
and I saw some signs andsymptoms of inflammation, I
would say, wow, dr Carver, I'mseeing some inflammation,
redness and even bleeding inyour gum tissue.
(18:26):
I'm going to take a plaquesample to see if there's
something going on.
Now we look at the microscope.
Let's say there's frantic, allkinds of creepy crawlers all
over there.
Then most of the time thepatient looks at them and goes
that's in my mouth.
And then I say, yes, thisdefinitely explains the
inflammation I was seeing inyour mouth today.
So I want to connect back.
Like what you're seeing here iswhat I was seeing.
Because for the most part, theseinfections are subclinical and
(18:49):
some of our patients believethey've had bleeding their
entire lives.
So we have to disrupt theirinitial thought and also disrupt
the autopilot of these hygienevisits too, because just like
patients come in and they thinkthey're going to get their teeth
cleaned, they're just expectingthat when they see one of us
hygienists.
It's not their fault.
We've trained them that way.
(19:09):
So we have to say, oh, I'mseeing a change, or oh, wow,
this is what it is today.
And then I see that franticslide.
Then I keep it to someanalogies that anyone can
understand.
I say think of these bacterialike termites in the foundation
of a house.
They live deep inside your gumtissue, not just on top of it,
which is why coming in hereregularly doing a really great
job with your home care isn'table to fight it off.
(19:29):
Like, basically, these bad bugsor bad bacteria, however that
practice wants to call it.
I leave that up to them.
Like, so they can for theirpatient base.
Like, how do they want to saythat?
But for these bad bacteria,they've overpowered your good
bacteria, so your immune systemis really struggling taking care
of them.
So what we need to do is notthat traditional cleaning Think
of the cleanings we've beendoing like a routine car wash.
(19:50):
What you now need is the fulldetail, really spending time
getting the nooks and cranniesplaces we just can't reach with
the traditional cleaning.
There's going to be somehomework on top of it and
several visits with me, so thenI'm like engaging them into oh,
I found, she found somethingdifferent, he found something
different.
Now we need to do somethingdifferent.
So that's my initialconversation.
Most of the time the patientsokay, yeah, get those out, what
(20:10):
do we need to do?
But then it's.
I learned this from anotherbiological dentist.
The way that she explains it toher patient is we take a
three-tier approach.
First is what are we going todo for you in the practice.
Second is what are you going todo for yourself at home?
And the third is your immuneresponse.
So that's when we can link backto their medical history.
So first, what we're going todo for you in the practice,
we'll explain that.
I'll explain to the patientlike that full detail includes,
(20:33):
depending on what the practicehas, ozone, laser, whatever it
is that practice is going to useto help get that patient
healthy.
That's what it's going to befor the home care piece.
That's going to be the waterflosser, and then the
medicaments that the practicelikes.
So I work with a myriad ofpractices and so I of course
have the products that I prefer.
Normally they'll say, okay,give me the research and I'll
say, here you go, and thenthey'll be like, oh, okay.
(20:54):
And then the third tier isreally that immune response.
So, depending on what theirmedical history looks like.
Are they diabetic, are theyimmunosuppressed, do they have
rheumatoid arthritis and they'realso taking immunosuppressant
drug, then we've got a wholehost of things.
That is also going to be partof that equation and I know this
is not going to be a coupleappointments in this patient's
fixed.
This is going to be perhaps ayear of getting the patient to
(21:17):
health, and every single timeI'm going to take a slide so I
can know if I'm decreasingvolume, decreasing motility.
So with the Waterpik, I don'thave any relationship with
Waterpik, I just love theWaterpik.
I've tried a gazilliondifferent generic types and you
get what you pay for, and so Ilike that pickpocket tip I have.
Like PerioBright Cleanse is onethat a lot of practices use.
(21:38):
There's no alcohol, it'sessential oils, it tastes really
good, so compliance isexcellent.
It comes with a pump so thepatient could just do one pump
to 300 milliliters of water, andit's made to be used in the
Waterpik.
In a perfect world, everyonewould go home with ozone water,
of water, and it's made to beused in the water pick.
In a perfect world, everyonewould go home with ozone water.
But that's not a perfect worldyet I think we're going to get
there, but we're not there yet,and so then they just run around
and I show them like shape of aletter, m on the top, w on the
(21:59):
bottom.
Running around, she goes untilthe tank is empty, and so that's
like my number one thing, withthe patient's going to start to
penetrate the biofilm wall,because if they don't start
penetrating the biofilm wall,it's not going to be as good.
The second thing is toothbrushtechnique.
Don't just brush your teeth andgums like brush all of it.
Scrape your tongue.
Dr. Carver (22:18):
You know what we do for that ozone water.
We make ozone ice cubes.
We send the patients home withice cubes so that'll last them a
little while, so they can onlytake.
They take one out at a time,because if we just give ozone
water, we know over time that itdiminishes.
Tosha Kozloski (22:32):
Yeah, yeah, Within a couple hours it's water
.
Dr. Carver (22:34):
So we bought these big silicone molds and we send
them home with the ice cubes, sothat's a really nice way to.
Yeah, maybe we're just going tohave an ozone machine, which
they're becoming.
The podcast I just did was withPromo Life.
They have that Tumblr.
Yeah, at home, like they'remaking them very affordable and
(22:55):
if you have one modality at home, spend your money at one thing
bozone yes, what that can do isamazing, so I also like their
new my new favorite powder.
They have one that has ozone.
It tastes really good.
Some of them with those on it's.
It can taste very chlorine.
Tosha Kozloski (23:11):
Yeah.
The oils, yeah, can be a littletoo much for a lot of pigeons.
Dr. Carver (23:15):
I'm a fan.
It cuts right through thatbiofilm.
So that's really exciting.
So, again, really important.
What that water pick is doingAgain that regular brushing and
flossing can't do is break thebiofilm, Just like you said.
Like how you described that,Like a jacket on there, like the
waterproof jacket.
Nothing is getting through that.
And I also love your analogy ofregular car wash versus now.
(23:36):
You need to be detailed, Ithink that's.
That image is awesome andthat's so important.
Right, Same thing with thetermites.
Like we can't, we got to getdeeper down in there where the
brushing and the flossing cannotreach so some of the other
modalities.
Tell me how you use the lasersand ozone when you're doing
periode treatment and why thoseare beneficial.
Tosha Kozloski (23:54):
Yeah, so depending on what the practice
has.
So a lot of my practices haveat least ozone water.
A good number of them also haveozone gas and then laser.
Protocols, depending on thestate, are going to vary.
So if a practice has, let's saythey have all the things, so if
(24:15):
they have a laser and they canuse it as initiated tip, then
what we're going to kick off theappointment with is they're
going to swish with ozone wateras their pretreatment swish and
then they'll run around withtheir LBR, their uninitiated tip
, because that laser canpenetrate into the gum tissue up
to five millimeters andstimulate those fiber blasts and
start that healing process andreally help to supercharge the
good, the immune system.
And then from there they'll usetheir if they have ultrasonics
(24:38):
I try to whether it's a Cavitronor a Piezo or however they do
if they can use ozone water.
In that it's like killing twobirds with one stone versus one
more step.
And so for the most partthey'll use their Piezo or their
Cavitron or GBT, whichever theyhave, and they'll full mouth
irrigate, disrupting any biofilm, breaking up any calculus, any
(24:59):
debris cleaning as well, likeold fashioned scaling and root
planning, but really focused onthe biofilm and then they'll go
in with their and then they'lldo whatever fine scaling they
need and then they'll add theozone gas if they have that as
well to that entire appointment.
So they would do that and then,if they also can initiate their
laser tip, they'll finalizewith that, because that
(25:20):
initiated laser tip is likewiping away all the necrotic
tissue at the end to then helpagain, and that heat also helps
with the healing process and ofcourse the gas is going to be
able to penetrate into thetissue too.
So it can.
A little bit crazy when peoplehave all the different
technologies.
I would say most don't haveevery single thing, so it's just
(25:40):
going to depend on what theyhave.
When I first started seeingbone regrowing, I didn't have
all these wonderful things and Istill was able to see bone
regrowing on implants, verticaldefects, patients getting so
much healthier saying I don'tknow what it is, I just feel
better.
Or just other spontaneousrecoveries eye infections that
they're going to have surgeryfrom an ophthalmologist go away
as soon as they got their oralhealth under control, because
(26:03):
sometimes that's just enough tomake them reflect and go.
Why do I have an infection inmy mouth?
Why do I?
Dr. Carver (26:13):
have this imbalance and when we're doing these kinds
of things, we're diminishingthat bucket.
Right, we're reducing thatbucket, yeah.
So now, once we take the burden, the immune system, take the
burden out of the mouth, theimmune system can get that high
infection and can get the otherinfections throughout the body.
So, again, that's why I thinkwhat we do is exciting, because
it's accessible and the patientcan do things from home, too
that really make it.
(26:34):
But it has to go beyond that.
Brushing and flossing, yes, too, that really make it.
But it has to go beyond that.
Brushing and flossing, yes, andthat's exciting.
And what we're traditionallytaught is, once the bone's gone,
it's gone forever.
That's too bad, but we now knowthe body knows how to
regenerate itself.
Right, we just got to removethat infection.
(26:55):
And the laser is so amazing.
The red lights, thatphotobiomodulation, all that is
so amazing for healing andstimulating.
And we don't realize how muchthe body communicates by light.
But this is why sunlight is soimportant.
Yeah, Because internal and wethink it's probably pretty dark
in there, but no photons.
When we're absorbing photons,they are communicating in the
(27:16):
cells.
So now they have a lot oflittle devices that look like
mouse guards.
Right that photons, they arecommunicating in the cells.
So now they have a lot oflittle devices that look like
mouse guards, right, that havered and blue light on them,
which I think is another thingthat somebody can have to do at
home.
Because I was telling to thedentist, the hygienist, for once
every I don't know, maybeinitially every six weeks or
something, or if you're regularevery six months.
What are you doing?
(27:37):
in that interim so there areother things that we can do,
especially somebody who has anyperio issues.
What are the other things inbiohacking?
We call them stack, stack, andso when you have the ozone plus
the red light, plus the laser,right, we're stacking all these
things, which makes the healingand the recovery and all that so
much quicker.
So these things that you canadd in without being such,
(28:02):
sometimes when you're adding somany different habits, like
people aren't gonna do them.
But that's why one benefit ofhaving that microscope when
somebody actually sees all thoseweird things wiggling out, that
might be a little bit more.
Tosha Kozloski (28:12):
They're motivated, they're super
motivated.
I compare I so much compare themicroscope to intraoral
photography.
We wouldn't dream of so manypractices have a different.
Like scanners.
There's different scanners.
There's extra-oral photography,inter-oral photography.
That's not just for us, that'salso to show the patient what
exactly is going on.
(28:33):
It's so much easier and whenour brain can visualize the
problem, they automatically canvisualize the solution.
So if they see a bunch of stuffrunning around in their mouth
and they go like what they want,is it not to be so?
Bridging the gap is easier.
So it's like, oh, you need meto do this at home.
Dr. Carver (28:50):
Okay, fine, and it's so important because most oral
disease is asymptomatic, right,we don't realize we have gum
disease, we don't know we havean abscess, right, and sometimes
, even if it's a huge abscess,you bite down and it feels a
little weird, but notnecessarily painful, right,
that's why we have to doradiographs, because there are
so many things we don't see yet.
(29:11):
They are a huge burden to ourimmune system.
Just a list of pretty muchevery chronic disease.
You can find a correlation tooral bacteria, right, because,
again, like you talked aboutsome of those, one of the major
toxins is LPS, like alipopolysaccharide we know.
That directly damagesendothelial cells, which are the
(29:32):
cells that line blood vessels.
You get damage.
Then all of a sudden, yourcholesterol is going to go
higher, because that's thesignal for the liver to send
some LDL to patch up all thedamage.
But we know it's I getconcerned.
Patients have infections intheir maxilla.
The roots of an upper tooth arevery close to the sinus, which
is one thin membrane away fromthe brain.
(29:53):
So is it any surprise that wehave oral bacteria connected to
dementia?
Right, we know, we all talkabout the microglial cells,
which are the immune cells inthe brain and those kind of
create these.
We're always so worried aboutthe plaques, right, the amyloid
plaques in the brain.
Drugs were targeted to get ridof these plaques, when in fact,
(30:13):
the plaques are actually aresult of bacteria causing
damage and activating themicroglia.
So, just like LDL cholesterol,the bad cholesterol helps
bandage up blood vessels in theperiphery of our body.
Those amyloid plaques areprotecting the infections in the
brain, so we need to remove theinfections.
(30:33):
And then the plaques arecreating issues.
So you can think of thatanywhere in the body and oral
bacteria and other kind ofmicrobes in general are some of
the major problems.
Right, and I say all the time onthis podcast toxins and
infections.
Toxins and infection that'swhat's causing disease.
So let's stop blaming all theseother things and let's try to
(30:55):
but and that's why we need someof the these better testing,
right, so we have to garner thedays when we're just the
hygienist and be like, if youdon't have bleeding, you're all
healthy.
Yeah, because we know we havethese other tools now and we
know the more we can prevent,the healthier these patients can
be.
So when you have somebody whois set up a regimen for them,
(31:18):
how often do you want to seethese.
Obviously, it depends on theperson, but generally when
you're finding something, howoften do you think they should
be seen so that you can check onthe progress?
Or how often do you think theyneed the ozone treatment or the
laser?
Tosha Kozloski (31:32):
Yeah, it's always going to be based on how
they look every single time thatthey come in.
If somebody is, they haveradiographic bone loss, they
have that pocketing.
So they, let's say they qualifyfor the CDT for full mouth
scaling and root planing.
So we're going to code it thatway, because scaling and root
planing is inclusive of removalof toxins and microorganisms.
The patient does not have tohave calculus, they simply have
(31:53):
to have roots to scale, to codeit that way.
But calculus is just if it'sthere, great, get rid of it.
If not, don't worry about it.
But they're going to come infor a full mouth treatment.
So I train teams like you maybe focused on the debris, let's
say on the right side, butyou're still going to run around
the entire mouth with the laser, with the ozone, with
everything.
And then you're going to tellthe patient I'm going to bring
(32:15):
you back next cleaning.
But we're going to get in thenooks and crannies on the left
side, but we're still going totreat the entire mouth.
We're going to get you back sixweeks later.
We're going to look at themicroscope again.
Based on how you look good, bador otherwise we're going to
determine what we need to donext.
If a patient still doesn't lookgood, then maybe they need to
come back in another four to sixweeks to then treat their
(32:36):
entire mouth again.
And then that's really whereyou can really tell so fast with
just looking, not just at theirtissue, because obviously some
infections are so subclinical,but if their microscope slide is
already showing a significantdecreased volume, decreased
motility, you know that theinfection is headed in the right
direction.
The immune system is takingback over.
But let's say that patient'sdoing everything they're
(32:58):
supposed to do.
You've done everything you'resupposed to do and that
microscope still looks awful.
Now we need to investigatefurther that third tier of what
do we do professionally.
What is the patient doing athome?
Let's look at their medicalhistory.
For me I don't want to say likeI drag this out, but sometimes
if we give the patient too muchinformation, they get decision
fatigue and they're like I'mjust not ready.
So I just share with them.
Hey, let's start with this.
(33:19):
We're going to see how you'reat in six weeks and then at six
weeks, depending on howeverything looks, we're going to
determine if we need to addanything, if you're on the right
track.
And I don't overwhelm them withthat, because I know I want you
to be a lifelong patient andI'm going to work with you over
time at six weeks.
If they're a hot mess, thenmaybe we need to take a deeper
dive into the gut health.
(33:39):
If the practice doesn't want totake a deep dive into the gut
health, then we're alwayslooking at who can you refer to
or are you willing to do somedirect-to-consumer products?
Viome has tests.
There's a bunch of differentones online, but there's all
kinds of different things we cando.
If we're not ready to do it inour practice, we need to at
least know where we can sendthat patient to get that whole
health coverage.
Dr. Carver (34:00):
That's so important.
And again, thinking back to allmy still hot conversations
about patients that's what DrSadie meant I don't know how to
have that conversation and Idon't want to overwhelm them.
I don't know what to say.
So the way you're doing is soimportant in that three tier
that makes so much sense here.
Let's just start with thebasics.
If that's six weeks, I lovethat, so that's a good interval.
(34:21):
At six weeks we reevaluate.
Okay, we're trending upward.
It's good, let's go two monthsnow, right?
Yeah, as long as you keeptrending, Our goal always is to
get them back to once or twice ayear cleaning.
We've got to see that they'remaking progress and maintaining
that right.
So it's frustrating when you'rein the confines of conventional
(34:44):
medicine and the insurancesystem.
The fact that insurances onlyallow you to do one side of the
mouth at a time makes no sense.
That you have to have thepatient come back two weeks
later, just like what you said.
You can't ignore the other side, right?
If you clean one side, what isthere?
Tosha Kozloski (35:00):
suddenly some wait, mom swept the floor over
there.
Don't touch that side.
Dr. Carver (35:06):
It just logically makes so sense.
So that's what I told myhygienist to do.
You still have to do all theozone treatment and a little bit
of laser on both sides.
Yes, you can focus on one sideand getting the calculus out for
that side, but the wholebecause you're going to easily
just reinsert to the other side.
It's crazy and that's why,unfortunately, so many patients
(35:29):
are so many bylaws like, aremoving away from insurance
because it's handcuffing up tobe able to do what we need to do
.
And, yes, it's frustrating, itgets expensive.
And I had a conversation with apatient today was like listen,
he asked me if we could just dothe cavities and not the gum
(35:49):
disease.
And he has severe radiographicevidence.
And I said one, if your gumsare bleeding I can't do a
filling, it's not going to stick.
And number two, I said I am waymore concerned about your gum
health than I am about the fewcavities that you have, because
every time you chew and everytime you swallow you are pumping
all of those toxins directlyinto your circulation.
(36:12):
Right?
So I said, if money isn't, wewill work with you.
I don't want money to be abarrier to your overall health.
So let's think about this, ofinvesting in your overall health
, because again, all of thisbacteria causes systemic issues.
So by investing in this oralhealth we're going to prevent a
lot of money and time.
It's more future healthproblems.
(36:33):
But it's hard to have thatconversation because again,
money always gets stuff stickyand insurance doesn't cover this
and that what we are alwaystrying to do is prevention.
But it's hard, especially whensomebody doesn't hurt.
That asymptomatic part is thetrickiest part and that's why
(37:02):
the photographs and themicroscope like these are
important tools to have to beable to show the value of kind
of what they've been, especiallywhen they come back and they
can see oh my gosh, you'remaking progress, you're getting
a good report card that helpsfurther motivate people to
continue.
But yeah, that's always thechallenge If something is not
hurting and impeding theireveryday life and it costs a
thousand plus dollars, then thatcan sometimes be a hard pill to
(37:25):
swallow.
So that's what our goal isalways education.
This is why I'm doing mypodcast.
I just create that awarenessand helping people to understand
that they have the power tohave good health.
We all have the power to be ourown best doctor.
I would love to never have topick up a drill ever again,
because everybody will havesolved all of their health
problems and I will feel likeI've done my job on this earth
(37:49):
and I can go on to the next,whatever else is next.
Tosha Kozloski (37:51):
Right.
Dr. Carver (37:52):
So yes, absolutely so.
I think that's that's what I'malways trying to teach.
And having people like hey, wehave these great tools now and
there's so much that patientscan do at home.
Now, too, red light has becomeso easy.
You can go on Amazon and buy ared light for $50 now, so that's
(38:12):
really exciting for people touse that when they if they do
have pain or swelling oranything like that.
It's exciting that they knowthat these tools are out there.
Tosha Kozloski (38:23):
Yeah, yeah, yeah .
Patients, when they and I'vetold so many people you don't
have to do all the things atonce, sometimes it just takes a
little bit of helping the bodyand it takes care of itself
Absolutely.
It's just those little nudges,just little tweaks and
modifications, and it'sincredible what the body can do.
Dr. Carver (38:43):
What do you think about so?
Typically we had inconventional medicine it was
like, okay, you can do yourscalp cleaning and then we're
going to put antibioticsdirectly in the pocket, say like
Crested.
How do you feel about thosekind of antibiotics directly in
pockets?
Tosha Kozloski (39:01):
Oh gosh.
So I am not a huge fan ofarrestin Like.
For me, I feel like, if I wouldsay, the majority of the
biological dentists I work withdo some systemic antibiotics
when the patient's just notgetting better.
And it's that weed feed seedmodel, like we've tried
everything, you're not.
This patient just not gettingbetter and it's that weed feed
seed model, like we've triedeverything, you're not.
(39:22):
This patient isn't gettingbetter.
And they're typically those veryhigh risk patients that have
diabetes, that they havemultiple things, they have
history of heart attacks,history of stroke.
They're these patients thattheir body's been waving the
white flag for a long time andso it's fighting fire with fire,
like chemotherapy if you will.
And so when it comes tolocalized, this is like putting
(39:46):
them in the pockets.
For me, I share with thepractice.
If they're already using thatbefore they would onboard
somebody like me, I don'trecommend to start there because
it's not a localized infection.
This isn't a localized problem,it's a full body issue.
But if the patient has avertical defect, that's very
difficult for them to hit with awater flosser and it is just an
area that's continuallycollecting biofilm that's
(40:07):
maturing Good At six weeks.
Put some in there, let's seehow it goes as an adjunctive,
but I wouldn't start there.
Dr. Carver (40:17):
So I think that's important and that's how I treat
my feet.
But I have noticed some ofthese things where we're
treating with the ozone, which Ilove, but I'm like in some
areas like one single pocketright Can't get, and I have
noticed that when I use a restand plus the ozone because ozone
actually enhances the effect ofantibiotics I can get
resolution of these little likeperiod pockets.
But again, it is never my firstcourse of treatment but, like
(40:41):
you said, you have theserecalcitrant areas that they're
just not getting any better andthat combination I've seen it a
few times with patients.
They will resolve things, yeah,and I've had to come to I don't
know what the right word is butthe use of antibiotics.
(41:01):
For so many years I've beenlike I'm just so against it,
right.
But even then I had a patientcome to me.
She had a really major absencewith swelling, so she received
some antibiotics and she saidthat really resolved all my gut
issues too.
And I went, huh, I was likemaybe I need to rethink this a
little bit.
Just like you said, the weedseed, all right, sometimes maybe
(41:25):
we do so.
My daughter two years ago shehad pneumonia Wasn't so bad yet,
but she's had this horriblebreath I'm sure she would love
me telling this story and herteeth, everything looked fine in
her mouth.
And so like there's somethingin her gut, like her stomach is
festering something, this is sobad.
And so when she got the, theytested her when she was sick and
(41:48):
so I brought her to the doctorbecause that's the only way I
could get her excused fromschool for being sick.
So I said run all the tests.
I love testing, I love to seewhat's going on.
And I wanted to know, like why,what is happening in her gut
that's creating this issue.
And so it came back that shehad a specific bacteria that was
related to pneumonia.
She never developed anysymptoms, but that's what came
back in the culture.
(42:08):
And so I said you know what?
I'm going to give her theantivax.
I'm just I'm going to do it.
And let me tell you, it's beena year now like that breath is
gone.
Been a year now like thatbreath is gone.
So then I'm like, yep,sometimes maybe you just need to
nuke it and start over right.
Tosha Kozloski (42:24):
Get her on the better diet it's so tricky, yeah
.
Dr. Carver (42:26):
But I'm like, wow, okay, but I had to have that
patient say it to me first forme to like okay.
So sometimes we get narrowminded, whether you're
conventional or biologic orwhatever it is.
So now I'm always trying tothink okay and yes, obviously
sometimes we need medication andthank God we have conventional
(42:47):
medicine and it's going to saveus in an emergency and stuff
like that and we don't need toalways poo it.
Tosha Kozloski (42:52):
But again, have having an open mind that use it
when it's responsibleantibiotics responsible, not
overdoing it, because indentistry we are super guilty of
over antibiotic gene and overall kinds of different things
and we don't always need asledgehammer.
And I know a dentist that shespecializes in fertility and she
(43:14):
, like people come from all overthe united states to help to
get pregnant.
We know that when it comes toinfertility, it's's not.
We hear all about these pretermbirth and all this kind of
stuff but it's not.
Getting pregnant in the firstplace is a huge part of it, and
that's the man and the woman.
And so if they have a seriousdysbiosis in their mouth and
they have specific bacteria, weknow that if they're releasing
toxins and that whole cascade ofevents.
(43:36):
And she said for two years shewas like I just don't want to do
antibiotics anymore.
And she said she just couldn'tget rid of the fusobacterium,
she couldn't get rid of some ofthe porphyrmonia gingivalis, and
so she went back to it and justsaid I just sometimes.
And so what I share withpractices is you got to use a
decision tree.
Are you dealing with a 25 yearold or an 85 year old that has a
(43:56):
medical history that's so long.
It takes you 15 minutes just toskim it.
Are we dealing with somebodythat's on immunosuppressant
drugs?
Or is this like a 45-year-oldthat was probably just burning
the candle at both ends notgetting enough sleep, too much
stress, like all the differentthings and now their body is out
of whack?
Like you can always do anantibiotic later if you're not
(44:18):
getting resolved and you've usedyour decision tree of age and
health and all the differentthings.
That's six weeks when they comeback, put the pieces to put the
whole thing together and thendo it later If you absolutely
have to.
You can always wait.
Dr. Carver (44:32):
And that's so important when I'm always trying
to teach and train people whowork for me.
You cannot.
We are not here to treat teeth,we are treating people.
So we have to certain and we'vealways thought, okay, let's
make a protocol, but we're likeit never works because everybody
is unique.
So you have these generalizedideas, but everything has to be
(44:52):
tailored to the person.
So now you hear all thesethings about personalized
medicine.
Yes, it's really.
And why do all thesepharmaceutical drugs have so
many side effects?
Because you're throwing onedrug at all these different
people who are completely uniquebeings.
So of course, you're going tohave side effects, right?
So we need to look at I lovewhat you're saying right.
Think about the person thatyou're treating and that is
(45:15):
going to have their decisiontree, right?
Or their protocol is going tolook a little bit differently.
So I love how you have thegeneralizations right.
Like the person who has so manysystems, maybe they need that
antibiotic, right, becausethey're so far down the systemic
inflammation trail that regularnatural modalities aren't going
(45:36):
to be powerful enough, becausethe toxic vote is so high that
we need to nuke it a little bit.
Versus, like you said, the25-year-old, our best example,
right, is that 45-year-old?
I love how you said burning atboth ends, right?
I know nothing about that Meeither.
Those of us who are like, yeah,we're just really deficient,
right, we're not sleeping enough, we're not eating as well as we
(45:57):
could, we're just deficient ina lot of minerals and all these
kinds of things.
So that person is, yeah, you'regoing to support them a little
better nutritionally.
Tosha Kozloski (46:04):
Okay, we need to be getting our sleep better, I
think that's If you do theantibiotic like no, like you are
killing good guys too.
So you must have a protocolafterwards.
You can't just be like goodluck yeah.
Dr. Carver (46:16):
Especially today.
Right, you're just not going to?
The food is so deficient todaythat you can.
Maybe a generation ago it wouldbuild itself back up but our
food is just so toxicGlyphosate's everywhere.
I don't think there's anythingthat's organic anymore, because
it's in the soil, it's in theair.
Maybe it has fewer toxins andfewer pesticides.
Everything's got stuff in itright.
(46:38):
So I love everything you'resaying.
This has been awesome.
I think you've been giving ussome really good tools.
I can't wait to have you comein my office and help.
We have all the stuff, so justworking again, and really we
don't have the microscope,though, and I've been on that
sense for so many years.
How are we going to add onemore thing?
(46:58):
But then, when I met you andyou're a consultant and you
train everybody how to do it alltogether, because nobody wants
to have a three-hour hygieneappointment.
That's not practical, so I thinkso I'm excited for you to come
up to the office and meet allthe girls, and we have a new
hygienist starting and she'ssuper into all the biologic, and
so I I'm like I'm starting heroff right from the top line.
(47:20):
We're not going to teach, we'regoing to erase all the bad
habits she learned, get out theground running.
So really excited about this.
But I think you've given us allsome good tips and hopefully
helping people understand whythey, why they might need to
come more frequently and how,again, we are here not to make
more money off you by seeing youmore often, but to prevent the
(47:42):
future issues that we know areall connected to oral bacteria
and their toxins, so I reallyappreciate you coming on today.
Is there anything else wedidn't mention that you want to
tell our audience?
Tosha Kozloski (47:55):
Gosh, I don't know.
I feel like we hit a lot.
So if they want to nerd outwith me on Instagram, I'm at
Tosh T-O-S-H.
Dot C-A-R-E.
I have at Toshcare.
I have all kinds of good nerdystuff there, so come check it
out if you need a nerd boost.
Dr. Carver (48:09):
And let's say there are other doctors listening and
maybe they want to have youconsult their hygiene department
.
How do they reach you?
Tosha Kozloski (48:20):
Yeah, so they can schedule a call with me if
they go to my website, which isall.
It was just Tosh T-O-S-H dotcare.
So Tosh dot care.
There's a scheduling link thereand you can just schedule a
call and we can chit, chat and Ican learn more about their
practice and we can see if we'rea match.
Dr. Carver (48:32):
Yeah, I think it would be great if we could have
universal treatments foreverybody, and they're all a
little bit for everybody.
We have to individualize them.
If we know all these greattools to use and see how
valuable they are, I think thatwill go a long way to help curve
all this chronic disease thatwe have in the world today.
All right, everybody, I hopeyou enjoyed, got some good
(48:55):
information from today's episodeand, if you liked it, please
share it with others.
Help us create that awarenessfor everyone and I hope you have
a wonderful day.
We'll see you on the nextepisode.
Hello, I'm Dr Rachel Carver, aboard-certified naturopathic
biologic dentist and a certifiedhealth coach.
(49:16):
Did you know that over 80% ofthe US population has some form
of gum disease?
Many of us don't even know thatwe have this source of chronic
infection and inflammation inour mouth that's been linked to
serious consequences like heartdisease, diabetes, stroke,
dementia, colon cancer, kidneydisease, even pregnancy
complications.
Would you like to learn how toreverse and prevent these
(49:39):
chronic debilitating conditionswithout spending a lot of time
and money at the dentist?
Join me for my six-week coursewhere I will teach you the root
cause of disease.
You'll learn how to be your ownbest doctor.
Are you ready to get started?
Let's go.
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