November 25, 2025 • 45 mins
A family video store with 400 movies. A heavy VCR lugged home for the weekend. An $800 camcorder bought on a personal credit card so a loyal customer wouldn’t be let down. That’s where Dan Fisher’s rent-to-own story begins—and how a small experiment grew into a durable, customer-first brand with a culture people talk about.
We walk through the inflection points that define real growth: discovering APRO after years of improvising, moving from Sam’s Club buys to vendor partnerships like GE Appliances, and opening the first standalone rent-to-own store that proved the model. Dan is candid about the messy parts too—how a fourth location in a tough market stretched his capacity, how a rapid jump to thirteen stores exposed leadership gaps, and why a two-day off-site in 2017 became the moment everything clicked. The takeaway is practical: choose systems that let you lead, build habits that keep plans alive, and return to the family values that made customers trust you.
We also unpack the rent-to-own model in plain language for skeptics and supporters alike. Flexibility matters: cancel anytime, no pickup fees, free delivery and setup, repairs covered, and lifetime reinstatement that honors every payment. That’s why multigenerational customers keep coming back. Dan’s mentors—industry mainstays like Shannon Strunk, Gary Ferriman, Mike Tissott, and Lyn Leach—helped him step into advocacy, where he found that most offices simply need the facts. When people hear how RTO expands access with dignity and options, the conversation changes.
If you care about building a resilient business, leading through growing pains, and serving customers with respect, this story delivers the playbook—and the heart behind it. Subscribe, share with a teammate who needs a nudge, and leave a review telling us your biggest leadership turning point.
APRO
Association of Progressive Rental Organizations
www.TheRTOshowPodcast.com For swag and information
Pete@thertoshowpodcast.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (01:09):
Hello, welcome to the Arts Goat Show Podcast.
I'm your host, P Shao, and guesswhat?
We're working on the Legendsseries, and we have another
Legend with us today, Dan Fisherfrom Magic all the way in
Pennsylvania.
Now, listen, there is so manythings I learned from the
Legends series going frombeginning to end, and some of
the people that we've had onhere, some of the people we're
(01:30):
going to have on here.
Dan is one of the greats, been agreat help and a good friend of
the show.
We just want to tell you, Dan,we appreciate that.
We appreciate you getting intothis series.
First off, Dan Fritchard, tellus how are you doing today?
How's everything going?
SPEAKER_00 (01:45):
I'm doing wonderfully today.
And I have to say, Pete, Iappreciate you as well.
I think I was one of yourearliest fans and just really
appreciate what you've done forthe industry.
And I'm just so glad to see yougrowing and developing and
becoming really more integralfor the industry.
So uh just love seeing yoursuccess.
So congratulations on that.
SPEAKER_01 (02:04):
I appreciate that.
In case anybody doesn't know,talking about a legend on a
backstory.
Dell was one of our very firstinterviews where we didn't even
have the ability to record.
We didn't have the word, so wecalled Dan and he's on his way
to work and he's giving us youknow the 411 and some of these
things.
We're running it down, we werejotting it all down to having
them on our next podcast.
You know, and we're talking, youknow, almost three years ago
now.
So it's crazy how uh I agreewith you.
(02:25):
We come along and we see we seethings on a different avenue in
a different light, and the waythey've prospered and and come
forward.
Really, it's been a great ride.
I know that somebody is now thepresident of Apro.
Uh, is it president of APRO?
Am I saying that right?
Yeah, president of the board.
So you you you're kind of allover the place now.
You're just making it happeneverywhere.
SPEAKER_00 (02:48):
Yeah, yeah.
It's uh it's it's been a wildride.
I I've uh I tell everyone, likeserving on the board of of both
APRO and and and Trib over theyears.
Uh I've been on both on and off.
And uh both boards are just souh helpful to me as a business
person, where you know, I I Ilove to give back to the
industry, but the thing I'velearned is you learn so much
(03:10):
contributing to the board thatit's been you know, it's been
really helpful to me and mybusiness just learning from some
of these these you know legendsthat you talk about on the
various boards and and justbeing up close and personal with
them.
You just you just learn so muchabout how you can improve your
business.
So I enjoy giving back and andanything I can do, I'm I'm happy
to help with.
SPEAKER_01 (03:31):
There's a lot of tenure on the board.
So when you're talking about theboard, you're talking about
people who have been there foryears and years.
You add that up, you know,centuries worth of rent to own.
Talking about people who havehad legendary tales and the
length of time in rent to own,when did you first get started
at rent-town?
Where did your tale start?
About what time did you come onto the rent to own scene and
(03:52):
start putting your mark on it?
SPEAKER_00 (03:54):
Yeah, so when I was in high school, actually, in
1984, my dad bought a very smallvideo store.
Uh, and and when I say small, itwas literally in a corner hotel
room of a of a hotel, uh like abanquet room, and it was it was
about the size of your yourtypical living room with 400
movies in it.
So that's what he bought.
(04:14):
And then shortly after that, uhso back in those days to rent a
movie, most people had to alsorent the VCR of a player that
played the movies.
And there was this um, you know,it was a really uh really big
hassle because you're luggingthis big heavy VCR home to your
house, you're trying to figureout how to hook it up to a TV,
which back in those days was notalways simple.
(04:34):
There were different connectorsand so on, and then you had it
for a day or two, and then you'dlug it back and return it.
And you know, my dad had theidea of why don't we just let
them keep the VCR?
Well, you know, we'll get somein that are for sale and let
them keep it for$10 a week, andafter a certain number of weeks,
they'll own it.
We have a customer that'sdedicated to us, and uh, that
(04:55):
was kind of the start of ourrent to own program.
I think that he had gotten theidea from I believe there were
Curtis Mathis dealers in ourarea at that time.
We're talking way back then.
And uh so that was how westarted in Rent to Own uh as a
you know, as part of our familybusiness.
And that that business went wentwell, uh, but we we just stuck
to the VCRs for for a couple ofyears until we had, you know,
(05:20):
the video business in those dayswas challenging.
So we were in the business for anumber of years.
Blockbuster came to town and uhreally challenged us, and and we
didn't really rise to thechallenge in the video business,
so we struggled.
Um but what what I realized wasthis this VCR uh rental program
was working pretty well.
It's the one consistent sourceof income we had.
There were no ups and downs.
(05:40):
We could count on that steady,you know,$10 a week from from
you know 20, 30 customers perstore.
And uh what was kind of thetipping point for us in terms
of, hey, let's make this abusiness was we had one of our
very best customers who hadrented a couple VCRs from us,
and they came to us and said, Iwant a camcorder, which for
those of you who are young mightnot know what that is, but that
(06:02):
was like a video recorder backbefore your phone could do it
for you.
And uh, and and so you would youknow hold it on your shoulder
and and you would videotapeeverything, and then you could
watch it in your VCR.
And these people were desperatefor one, and we literally didn't
have the$800 in the company tobuy this for them, and we knew
they were gonna pay, but we justdidn't have the money.
(06:23):
And so, you know, I said, Well,you know, I'm gonna do this.
And and I I you know I had acredit card and I went out and
bought this camcorder for them,and and then I rented to own
this this camcorder to them.
And and then, you know, afterthat, I said, Well, I'm gonna
make this my little businessinside of our video business.
And so we started renting uh TVsand stereos and and all sorts of
(06:46):
different uh types of items uhover the time, and then that
just expanded and expanded untilit became the primary business
over a long time.
SPEAKER_01 (06:54):
There's a couple questions that come along with
that.
The first thing is, can you tellme how big one of the first VCRs
were?
SPEAKER_00 (07:02):
Yeah, I'm trying to compare it to something so if
you see my shoulder width,right?
So I would have to carry it likethis, and it was probably this
high, so probably eight incheshigh, probably two two and a
half feet wide and two feetdeep, and and probably weighing
twenty pounds, plus or minus.
We've come a long way to putsomething in the back of your
(07:24):
pocket that can streameverything, right?
SPEAKER_01 (07:26):
Exactly.
We started doing the VCRs, asbig as they are, they're renting
for$10 a week.
You go into the camcorder side,you realize that there's a way
to make this happen.
As you're transitioning andmaking this very small
rent-to-owned store, what year,what about you, what year was
that?
SPEAKER_00 (07:43):
I'm gonna guess it was around 91, 92.
It was uh I I was graduatingcollege in 91, and I think it
was right around the same time,maybe even a little before that.
It might have been 1990, uh,when we were when we were
getting into that that part ofthe business.
SPEAKER_01 (07:58):
So at so you've got these two series, you've got you
know, the VCRs, we're trying toget into camcorders, you open up
this business.
What were some of the next linesthat you pulled in first that
you thought, you know, this isgoing to be a great idea, this
is gonna sell first?
SPEAKER_00 (08:12):
Well, it was funny because my wife Trisha, uh, who
you've met, she was a customerof one of our video stores back
then.
Of course, I didn't I didn'tknow her back then, I didn't
meet her until you know 12 yearsago.
But back then she was a customerof one of our video stores.
She lived down the road, and shesaid, you know, it was so
strange.
I liked the video store, it wasconvenient, the people were very
nice, but I would walk in andaround the the walls were all
(08:35):
these movies, and then in themiddle of the store were washers
and dryers and and uh you knowdifferent things like that.
So as far as what we got intonext, it was that it was laundry
items, anything we could buy atSam's Club, right?
So there was a Sam's Club thatopened in York PA, and that
that's the equivalent of aCostco for those of you who
don't have Sam's Club near you.
And and so we could buy as abusiness member, we could go in
(08:57):
there and buy wholesale cost on,I mean, wholesale is not that
much less than retail, butwashers and dryers, TVs,
stereos.
So that's that's the next typesof things we got into.
SPEAKER_01 (09:07):
So who was the first vendor back then?
Because you know, Costco, Sam'sClub, they're kind of available
to pretty much anybody who has acard.
If you have a small business,you can do that.
What were some of the vendorsthat wouldn't normally be
available to Costco or Sam'sClub that you started off with
first?
SPEAKER_00 (09:22):
Our first, and the one thing that is is I think a
little bit interesting about ourhistory is that we didn't know
anything about APRO or Trib atthat time.
We had no knowledge of them.
And and so a number of yearslater, we discovered, and I
don't know the year, but we justwe've been a member of APRO for
probably 25 years, give or take.
And and so when we finallydiscovered APRO, that's when we
(09:44):
started really discovering thevendors, and we started learning
the laws of rent to own, and westarted learning the best
practices in terms of margins.
And and so I was always soimpressed how I would go to
these shows, and even back then,you know, people like Lynn Leach
and you know, he he was one ofthe most prolific speakers at
that time, and uh, you know,Mike Tissett, I think, was
already speaking at that time,and and of course you heard from
(10:07):
Larry Carico.
And anyway, you know, I learnedso much from them, and I was
just so impressed that this thisgroup of people who were
competing with each other, whichhad that type of information.
But to get back to yourquestion, I think that our very
first vendor that wasn'taccessible to the public was GE
Appliances.
Um I and I can't remember how Igot connected with them.
I think I got connected withthem before we were a member of
(10:30):
APRO, and that may have been howwe discovered APRO.
But uh yeah, I think it was GEappliances was the first one.
SPEAKER_01 (11:25):
Did you ever really have a vendor at that point?
Because we are talking alreadyin the 90s.
Usually when I hear a kickbackon this question, it's usually
from the 80s.
But did you ever come across avendor that was kind of like,
I'm not really sure about therent-to-owned space and not
really comfortable with sellingthat?
Any obstacles that you had toovercome then, as far as vendors
were concerned?
SPEAKER_00 (11:46):
Oh, we've well we've encountered that through our
entire life cycle.
And I it's hard to remember thespecific ones from way back
then, but even more recently.
I mean, it was not that manyyears ago that we couldn't buy
Bose.
You know, that was probably fiveor six years ago when Bose
finally agreed to sell to us andand other you know, other
vendors like that because theythey just feel like they're, I
(12:07):
guess I won't say too good forrent to that's the that's the
perception we got as a as adealer, at least, is they they
felt like they they didn't wantto be in our stores, which I
think most of them over timewe've we've we've realized and
they've realized that ourcustomers are want their product
and can afford their product,they just need a payment plan
for it.
SPEAKER_01 (12:26):
What do you think going back to those first days
when you you've got the wallslined up and everything in the
center, what do you think thatyour unique approach to
rent-to-own actually made itsuccessful?
SPEAKER_00 (12:39):
You know, honestly, I think it's the same thing that
that helps us succeed today.
And I think it's just thatfamily approach.
In other words, our goal withdoing this was never about
maximizing every penny out ofevery piece of merchandise.
In fact, that was one of ourproblems early on, is we didn't
mark things up enough.
So we really just didn't wedidn't have a very good profit
(13:01):
margin.
But we always just wanted tohelp people get these things.
I mean, back to that very forfirst story about why we did the
rent to own in the first place.
It was to help people avoidhaving to lug VCRs home every
weekend.
And and so since the verybeginning, I think that's been
the story of our business is wewe want to help people, you
(13:21):
know, whatever we can do to helppeople, that's that's what we
try to lean on.
So helping, making sure thatyou're meeting, you're you're
serving the need that they have.
SPEAKER_01 (13:30):
Exactly.
What was so then what wasprobably I mean, because every
time that we talk to a legend,we know that there is a success.
You're here.
There's been plenty of years inbetween here and there, and some
trials, some tribulations thatthat that really kind of helped
you get here.
But so far, we're saying, let'ssay late 80s, early 90s, so you
(13:51):
know, almost 30 years.
What was the time in in rent toown where you said, you know
what, this this is a difficulttime.
This is not like normal.
We're we're we're definitelyhitting some difficult area in,
you know, this is turbulence onthis ride.
SPEAKER_00 (14:04):
Yeah, we went through many phases of that.
I mean, there's definitely beenups and downs throughout the
entire, you know, 40 plus yearsnow.
And um a a couple of those uhfor us, well, a high point was
when we finally decided we couldopen a rent-to-own only store.
So it took us a long time tofigure that out that hey, we can
we can open a rent-to-own store.
(14:26):
And that was a huge high pointfor us when we opened our very
first non-video store thatfeatured rent-to-own.
And it was a big risk, but we wetook that leap.
It was a 10,000 square footstore in a in a pretty prominent
shopping center, so we're payinga lot of rent for that time, and
and it went went very well,better than our expectations.
But then, you know, you gothrough phases where, as you do
(14:47):
in today's world, where we wegot to the point um very early
on where we had four stores, andthat doesn't sound like much in
today's world, but four storeswas a tipping point for us that
really caused us problems.
We had three stores, and I waskind of the what you would call
the DM at that point, and uhthey were three high-volume
stores, and and I uh, you know,I think I did a pretty good job.
(15:11):
I I had never been trained, Ididn't know what I was doing,
and I didn't have any leadershiptraining or any leadership
knowledge even.
And so I muddled through kind ofbeing a DM of those three
stores.
And then when we opened thefourth store, it was in a
tougher market.
Um, and that was one of ourbiggest struggles.
Our very first manager we put inthat store, who was our
strongest manager in thecompany, he came from our best
(15:33):
store.
He went to open this new store,and he he literally had a like a
nervous breakdown and and had tobe at because it was such a
different market, different thanhe was used to.
I really it took us a number ofyears to figure that out.
So, I mean, that was a hugetipping point.
It a opening in a very toughmarket, one we hadn't been, you
know, been in a similar marketbefore, and then simultaneously
(15:56):
just I think exceeding mycapacity at that point, because
again, I just didn't know what Iwas doing at that point.
That was a huge one, and thenyou know, we we've gone through
similar things where we were atfour stores for quite a while,
and then we we kind of came to adecision we either need to grow
or we need to figure out how tomake these stores better and
better.
And we felt like whenever weopened stores, it gave us energy
(16:18):
and and a renewed kind of life,and so we went from uh four to
eight stores in about two years.
Uh, and then we bought fivestores right after that.
And this is in the in the early2010s, I think it was around
2013.
And so we went from four tothirteen stores in about two
years, and that was a a huge umchallenge just again, as you can
(16:42):
imagine, yeah, trying to figureout how to how to lead, how to,
how to now start supervising DMswhen I didn't even really know
what I was doing as a DM.
And uh so teaching teaching allthat um was was challenging.
And that's that's kind of whenwe got to the point uh in about
2017, so a few years later, iswhen we we really dug into
(17:03):
leadership and leadershiptraining and development, and
and we we realized we needed toget back to the family roots
that made us made us who wewere, and and that's that's kind
of what led to that cultural,what we call our magic cultural
revolution, I guess you wouldsay.
Um but that's that's what led tothat is we wanted to get back to
where we were when we were uhwhen we were uh just a
(17:24):
family-owned uh business and notuh not so um where we didn't
have you know we just had thethree or four stores, I guess is
what I'm trying to say.
SPEAKER_01 (17:33):
When so coming to the other side of that coin,
when was the time when you knewthat you made it?
That you like like we're gonnabe here.
We're solid, we're gonna be hereregardless of the fact.
We can have a bad week or a badmonth, but this is what I'm
going to do, and magic is gonnastay.
SPEAKER_00 (17:50):
Honestly, I think it was it was when we we had a a
leadership meeting, our veryfirst leadership meeting that we
had ever had, which says a lot,I guess, in January of 2017.
And it was a very, very, verychallenging time for me
personally, for for the company,for our leadership team, because
we were just going through thathuge growth cycle and having to
churn a lot of employees fromthe company we bought.
(18:12):
And when we had that firstleadership off-site, it was a
two-day off-site, and uh, wecame away from that off-site
meeting feeling really, reallygood.
We felt like we have a lot todeal with, but we now have a
plan to deal with it.
So I think that's you know,that's something that was really
the turning point that said, allright, I know we got this now.
And from there on out, we'vejust I think we've we've you
(18:34):
know, obviously you have yourups and downs no matter what,
but we've really gone in a gooddirection ever since that then,
because we've just stayed withstayed the course with that
strategic planning and and andweekly follow-ups and just
making sure we're following theplan.
SPEAKER_01 (18:49):
Well, plan and process is extremely important
in this business, especiallywhen you're trying to grow and
do it successfully.
But taking the idea ofleadership and saying, you know,
we were able to give that andstart doing that, whether we
whether we knew what we weredoing or not, we started it and
we started going down this path.
But that's very important to astore.
(19:09):
Was there somebody or severalpeople when you first started
this out that were mentors toyou?
I know you've already mentionedthat, you know, at one point
when you first came on AprilHall at Mike Disney was talking
and Lindleise was talking, butwas there anybody that really
took you under the wing or was amentorship to you or to magic
and helped you kind of reallyget from where you were in the
(19:29):
beginning to where you are now?
SPEAKER_00 (19:31):
Uh there's no one particular person that's that
kind of helped magic moveforward, but I would say that
who helped me personally havethe confidence to help magic
move forward is the way I wouldsay it.
And and you know, from the veryfirst committee I served on in
the industry, I vividly rememberit was with Shannon Strunk and
(19:52):
Gary Farriman and myself.
And those two gentlemen, I wasjust this newbie in the
industry, and I was I'm a I'm anextreme introvert by nature, and
and I was just, you know, thatfirst meeting we were in, I was
just a mute almost, you know,and and uh but but I must have
said a few things that thatstruck a chord with them because
both of them really took aninterest in me.
(20:15):
And and Shannon in particular,you know, just just helped me
get uh not helped me get on theboard, but encouraged me to run
for the trib board and and thenrun for the Apro board and
actually in that reverse order.
And so Shannon and Gary inparticular, I I look up to as
early, early mentors, and morerecently over the last, you
know, ever since I got to knowhim, probably 12 or 15 years
(20:36):
ago, I'm not sure.
Mike Tissett has just alwaysbeen a guy who, you know, I've
never met a person more givingthan him.
But there's so many others.
I mean, Lynn Leach, we don'thave the personal connection
that I have with some of theothers, but he just always
teaching, always sharing.
And there's probably 20 morethat I'm missing.
Chris Boland, uh, what a greatleader he is and teacher.
(20:58):
Uh and especially for thosethose people who have you know
three or four stores orwhatever.
I wish I had met Chris back whenI had three stores.
I would have stayed with threestores and just done done what
he did, which is make them hugestores and super profitable.
And um so there's so manypeople, but the earliest ones
would have been uh uh Shannonand Gary for sure.
SPEAKER_01 (21:18):
Yeah, we you know, both of them are also going to
be on these on these podcasts.
And I tell Gary all the time,all the time, every time that I
talk to Gary, you have no ideahow many people mention your
name.
And you know, he always takes itas humble as a humble person
can.
He's not that type of person tobe, you know, volumeless and
just he's just a very humbleguy, but he always has some
(21:38):
great things to say.
He always is very genuine andvery, you know, he has a
mentorship mentality, whether helikes it or not.
You know, people just listen towhat he has to say.
And everybody I've talked to hasalways mentioned Gary at some
point in time.
And it's it's always it's alwaysgood to hear that, you know,
he's he's been able to help somany of us get to where we are.
(21:59):
And you know, talking abouthelping us getting to where we
are, you said early on that youdidn't know much of what was
going on with the rent-to-ownscene until you had come on
board April and you startedmeeting some of the talent and
the I want to say thepersonalities that came with
Apro, because I mean you've gotsome people Mike is a
personality in himself, youknow, it's just it's his
personality.
(22:19):
But like, when did you reallystart getting into the advocacy
part?
When did you start going, okay,you know what?
April's here for more than justthis.
There's an advocacy part, andhow can I participate?
SPEAKER_00 (22:30):
You know, it took me a long time to finally go to my
first legislative conference.
Um, and that's because I am anintrovert and I I feared going
to a legislator's office andfreezing up or saying the wrong
thing or putting my foot in mymouth, which is what introverts
do.
And uh, but I finally did it andI was paired with someone.
I I well I can't remember thatfirst time, but someone who had
(22:52):
been to other meetings waspaired up with me and went to my
meetings with me.
And as I tend to do, you know, Iwas fine in that meeting when
I'm one-on-one.
I usually am a fairly decentcommunicator.
And and then uh just taking awaythe fact that even if I don't
meet with the senator or thecongressperson, that I'm meeting
with the staff member whoprobably is driving decisions
(23:13):
anyway, and really feeling heardand feeling like we do have a
voice and that they do want tohear from us.
That was very encouraging to me.
And um and and again, but thefact that most of the people I
spoke to had really no realknowledge of our industry and
how it works and the people wehelp.
And um, you know, if they hadany knowledge, it was because
(23:36):
maybe they ran it from RenaCenter in college or something
like that.
Uh, but most of them didn't haveany idea that we help people who
maybe don't have moneymanagement skills that maybe
they were taught as a child.
Um, and and they these you knowmany of our customers just don't
have that skill set, and we helpthem learn that.
And uh just sharing that messagewas very encouraging to me.
(23:57):
And I think I might have missedone of those legislative
conferences since then, and uhwe had a conflict for some
reason, but it's been such agood experience um getting
involved in that, and uh uh andand I guess that's the answer to
your question is just that thelegislative conference, I would
recommend it for anyone andeveryone.
And you've been there, youshould know exactly what I'm
talking.
SPEAKER_01 (24:17):
You know what?
Uh I remember the first yearthat I went, I didn't know what
to expect.
Like you, I was like, I've donea lot of things, but standing in
front of somebody who's been onCNN and kind of helped write the
laws for the country, that'swhere I caught a drawing point.
I was a little worried.
But uh I was able to go with acouple people that kind of
really put me on my ear andsaid, Pete, you're you're you're
overthinking this way too much.
(24:38):
Like, if this is what you'repassionate about, you're
probably gonna sit in front ofsomebody who has no idea what
we're talking about.
And you're informing them like abrand new customer.
This is why we're so important,this is how we affect everybody.
And uh I remember coming out ofit going, I've got to do this
again.
I really do.
Uh, you know, part of part ofthe way the show transitioned is
I never thought that I would bedoing this.
(25:00):
I I never thought that I wouldcome down this road.
Um, at some point in time, I wasvery uh kind of like yourself.
I'm like, I I'm to myself, I'mjust that kind of guy.
And I remember early on uh whenDanny was there, you know, uh it
actually Amberly is a reason whyI'm doing this.
If you want to come all the wayback full circle, she she was
pitching a commercial idea, andDanny was like, you know what,
(25:22):
I'll do it.
I was like, I don't know, Idon't know.
And uh well, she pitched theidea, and I was like, I don't
know.
And Danny said, Well, I'll doit.
And I was like, there's no wayyou're beating me.
There's that's just not gonnahappen.
SPEAKER_00 (25:31):
And so lo and behold, she created this whole
this this whole thing thathappened later and later, and
it's funny, but you know I re Iremember your your buddy, your
not buddies, it was uh uhranking your superman type
commercials and all that stuff.
Yeah, I I think I saw every oneof those.
I was uh that was uh that wasgreat.
Yeah, great.
SPEAKER_01 (25:49):
We can't we keep full circle from that, and uh
and I gotta say, you know, it'sthe people that we interact with
in our lives that have helped usget to where we are.
And you know, you always want toremember the mentors, you always
want to remember the people thathave helped you along the way.
And you know, one of thosethings was Pete, you gotta go to
one of these advocacy things.
I was talking to uh Charlesabout it, and then I had talked
to a lot of other people aboutit, and you gotta go to it, and
(26:10):
it was so important.
But I just started last year,you know, this is my second year
2024, 2023 was my first year.
When did you first attend?
SPEAKER_00 (26:18):
I think probably 15 years ago, and that that sounds
crazy because time uh in flies,right?
And so it doesn't seem that longago, but yeah, it was probably
15, maybe more years ago.
It's been quite a while.
SPEAKER_01 (26:30):
Yeah, it's it's one of those things like I can't
believe that I'm I'm actuallygetting ready for my next one
next year.
Like I have to plan for itbecause of everything that's
going on, especially because youknow, thank goodness the growth
of the show and everything.
So I've got like I've got likepretty big the calendar already.
But you know, talking aboutfuture, coming from the past
that you've had, kind of growingan organic store from literally
(26:53):
not even being a store to goinginto this rental location and
and kind of going above andbeyond, not only opening your
stores, but buying other storesand kind of bringing that all
together.
What is something that you wouldexpect to say to, let's say,
somebody in the future, somebodywho's creating a brand now,
somebody who's talking aboutopening a store or getting, you
(27:14):
know, because this can be alittle bit different now than it
was then.
Back then it was a little bitharder to understand rental.
Now it's it's on a few morestreet corners.
But what is something that youwould say to somebody who's
going down that road, that paththat you've been on, and say,
you know what?
If there was anything that uh Iwish I would have known back
then, it was this?
SPEAKER_00 (27:31):
Yeah, um, well, there's so much, but I'll start
with a couple.
Number one, I wish I hadconnected with the industry
sooner.
Um, so so making insertingyourself into whatever industry
you're you're involved with, butcertainly in our industry, being
a part of April, being a part ofTrip, sharing what you know and
then learning from others, likeit's a give and take, right?
(27:53):
And that's what's so cool aboutour industry is people are
willing to share what succeedsbecause I think everyone in this
industry, or I should say mostpeople in this industry,
understand that a rising tidelifts all boats.
And if we help if we help everycompany in the industry serve
our customers better, then ourindustry is perceived better.
(28:13):
And so if we can just helpeveryone do that better, that
helps us all.
It helps expand our reach.
And so we don't have to becutthroat and and keep our our
ideas a secret because we wanteveryone to do better, and that
just helps our customers uh loveour industry even more than they
already do, and it helps themspread the word, I would say.
So that's one of them, and thenand then you know for me
(28:36):
personally, learning um learningabout leadership, learning uh
what it takes to be a goodleader.
Uh I I learned that way toolate.
So it's it's one of my passionsin our company, and it's one of
my passions within 8 Pro andTrib is sharing what I've
learned over the years that Iwish I had known 20 years
earlier.
So those those two things aretwo of the keys, I would say,
(28:57):
yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (28:57):
You know, it's funny you say that, you know, um about
the rising tide, because therehave been times where we're
until as a whole, as an industryand as an individual location,
whether it be magic, whether itbe raps, whether it be buddies,
whatever the case is.
We get this moniker from themedia that, you know, we're
(29:18):
we're, you know, kind of littlecutthroat and we're we're kind
of doing things that probablynormal businesses wouldn't do.
What would you say to that rightnow, after all the experience
and all the time that you'vespent growing and now going to
the April and the Trip sources,uh, you know, meeting of the
Minds, RTO world, and now beingon the boards, what would you
say to that?
SPEAKER_00 (29:38):
Well, I think so much of what what we talk about
at those meetings is all abouthow do we help our customers,
how do we serve our customersbetter?
And anyone who's critical ofthat, my my messaging always is
talk to our customers.
Read read our Google reviews.
We have our company inparticular, we have hundreds of
and hundreds of Google reviewsthat are five-star at every one
(30:00):
of our stores, and they'resincere.
That's why I say read them, youknow, come to our stores and
talk to our customers becausethey love us.
We have generational customers.
There's there's not a lot ofcompanies in this country or
worldwide, I would say, thathave four generations of
customers, where you have agrandmother, a daughter, a you
know, a grandchild, and so on.
(30:21):
And and we have many, manycustomers who have three
generations.
I I I saw someone post it on theTrib Connections, I think it was
a four-generation uh gap theother day.
And I'm sure we have that atMagic.
I'm not aware of specifics, butwe have a number of customers
that we dealt with way back whenwho now have their children and
their grandchildren renting fromus.
And if we're you know not takingcare of them and we're not
(30:43):
serving them and we're notproviding them with the value
that they feel like they'regetting, they wouldn't come
back.
You know, if if we're quoteunquote taking advantage of
them, they wouldn't come backfor the second rental item, much
less have a whole house full ofproducts from magic, and then
have encourage their childrenand their grandchildren to come
to Magic to fill their houseswith products too.
So you know, I just encouragepeople to do more research and
(31:05):
and talk to the actual customersinstead of listening to sources
that may not have the fullstory.
SPEAKER_01 (31:12):
Well, you say they came to magic, they're from
magic.
Where did the magic name comefrom?
SPEAKER_00 (31:18):
Really out of thin air.
So when we first started, like Isaid, we were in the video
business and and our name wasMovies Galore.
We did not invent that name,that was inherited from the
company we bought it from.
And uh and so we were MoviesGalore for the longest time, and
then we were Movies Galore andRent to Own, I think.
I forget, I forget how that was,but we just we had to come up
(31:39):
with a name, and so webrainstormed.
And at that time, I think it wasme and my dad and my mom who did
all the brainstorming late atnight, usually at a Denny's.
And we uh we uh you know we werethrowing around ideas and I
think my dad said what aboutmagic and I was like I love that
you know magic rent to owns andthen we we decided to spell it
(31:59):
in a quirky way just to make itquirky you know so I kind of
regret that a little bit becauseI can't tell you how many times
people say are you with Majakyou know or some other some
other other pronunciation but umbut it's uh yeah it was just
kind of pulled out of thin airwe were throwing around
brainstorming ideas and I'mpretty sure it was my dad that
threw out the name magic and weall we all I like that idea I
(32:21):
like that story.
SPEAKER_01 (32:22):
You know coming through those times as well
there was a there was a time ortwo where there was some
regulation that popped up and itkind of almost put Rent to home
on a pause.
Were were you involved in thatin any way?
SPEAKER_00 (32:34):
Did that affect you?
I was blissfully ignorant backthen.
That was before I had discoveredAPRO and TRIB and and honestly
it's it's funny to say thatbecause Pennsylvania was really
a hot spot for that forpotential problems at that time
and I was just totally unaware.
We didn't know you know we justwere we're kind of making it up
as we went along at that timeand I think that was in the late
(32:57):
80s when that was happeningmaybe the early 90s and uh we
hadn't really discovered APROuntil about that time or a
little after that.
And it's one of the reasons thatI I again I would encourage
everyone to discover theindustry groups earlier because
it could have been catastrophicfor us if if we had been you
know big enough to beinvestigated by anyone because
(33:17):
they would have looked at ourrental agreement and found it
was completely lacking becausewe just made it up, you know,
and and so on.
SPEAKER_01 (33:24):
So we were uh blissfully unaware I guess is
the way I would say it you knowthere there was definitely you
know there was a misconceptionin the law in the government
about how we did what we did andthe benefits outweighing the
what they would considernegatives and uh not
understanding you know genuinelywhere we're coming from how well
(33:47):
we can help the consumer and thefact that they're not locked in
in any way shape or form.
You know what how would yourespond to some of those
narratives nowadays?
If you're if you're going to youknow if you're going to let's
say a legislator's office and Iknow that you're you're the
recluse so I'm gonna I'm but butin your words you know you go
(34:08):
into the office and you actuallydo have somebody who understands
where it's home at least alittle bit at least what they
think and they're in one ofthose you know tackling states
that are like hey you know whatyou're in DC I'm from this state
I don't like what's going onwhat would you say to them that
somebody that has this negativemoniker this negative narrative
to for them to own well I Ithink that the negative uh
(34:31):
implication perceptions comefrom a lack of correct
information and and so again Iwould educate them on the on the
transaction and the laws thatalready govern the transaction
which the biggest mixedmisconception I hear is people
that say we lock people intolong-term agreements.
SPEAKER_00 (34:50):
And anyone who's ever worked in rent to own and I
think 99.999% of our customerswhoever have listened to us when
we explain the agreement theyunderstand completely that it's
exactly the opposite that acustomer has complete
flexibility they are able tocancel their agreement at any
time and uh and they don't oweus anything.
(35:12):
You know I I think inPennsylvania and most states by
law we can't charge a pickupfee.
We when they say to us hey Idon't want to rent this anymore
we'll go pick it up at theirhouse they don't owe us anything
and it's it's and then if theywant to come back later they can
come back later and mostcompanies in rent to own offer
what you know the term lifetimereinstatement meaning that if if
(35:33):
someone rents something from us,let's say it's a 75 inch TV that
they because they wanted towatch football season and and
they pay six months on a TV andthen they're like, you know I
can't I can't really afford thisanymore they can come back a
year later and and they can pickup right where they left off
with a similar TV and we givethem credit for every payment
they made.
I mean what's a more flexibleconsumer friendly transaction
(35:56):
than that I would say thereisn't one in existence.
The counter to that might beyeah but they pay a lot more for
that.
Well they do pay more for thatbut they the the thing that
again is not really widely uhspread is the fact that during
that time we cover all repairswe offer free delivery and setup
if they don't like it anymore wewe can pick it up and return it
(36:16):
and we have that lifetimereinstatement.
So yes it's more for a TV thanto go to Walmart and buy a TV
but you have a lot offlexibility and a lot of
built-in uh services thatWalmart isn't providing either
so um you know I I I uh enjoythose conversations because I
think that the that that that uhthe options I think is is is the
(36:39):
way I like to uh explain it thebest is we're giving the
consumer options and if he orshe doesn't like the options we
have to offer they can just stoprenting from us and they can go
anywhere else they want and theycan just keep on rolling and
keep on rolling.
I agree.
SPEAKER_01 (36:53):
With everything that you've been through and some of
the things that you've seenbecause you've been doing you've
been going to DC for a whileyou've seen you know the rising
tides and the fall sometimeswhether it be an April whether
it be in trip whether it be amagic we come out on on the
other end of this you know I'dlike to say then come out on the
other end of it okay we're doingall right what about this
(37:14):
industry what about magic wouldyou like people to remember
years from now?
SPEAKER_00 (37:21):
I think it's that specifically I'll start with
magic I think what I would lovefor people to remember about
magic is that we cared aboutpeople and we care about our
employees.
Our coworkers are what makes uswho we are and because we care
about them and we um wedemonstrate that daily to them
(37:42):
they take care of our of ourcustomers and so our customers
we have you know we havecustomers as with most companies
that do that are in thisbusiness that bring us pizza
they bring us cookies they bringand not me they don't bring me
that but they bring the peoplein the stores that the people
they deal with daily so I go andeat the cookies sometimes but no
I would love them to rememberthat our customers love us and
(38:04):
our employees love us because wevalue them and we treat them
with respect.
You know we always talk abouthow we want our customers to
feel when they come into magicwe want them to feel the same
way that a customer might feelwhen they walk into Nordstrom's
if they're a multimillionaire,right?
So we want our customers to feelthat sense of respect and
(38:25):
inclusion and and uh we weaccept everyone and we want them
to feel like they're a part ofthe magic family.
And that's what I would like forthat.
As far as the industry goes Imean I think that it's it's a
very similar thing.
I think industry wide mostcompanies in our industry their
goal is to help customers haveoptions help customers have
(38:45):
products that they couldn'totherwise have and provide them
with the choices of how to howto pay for that and whether they
want to own it or not.
SPEAKER_01 (38:54):
So I think it's a similar message industry wide
well you know you always want tobe remembered for the great
things regardless some therethere's there's some trials and
tribulations along the way thatcan happen and you know it's
sometimes it's it's just as wellto get through those because you
learn a lesson there's somethingout of it that you take out of
it that you can take with youfor good bad or indifferent you
(39:14):
know you learn from it you don'tdo it again and you figure out a
way to make it work for you.
If I did this and it didn't worknow I try this and I'm gonna
stick to that because I know theother side of that coin is a bad
part of the equation.
You know part of what I alwaysrealize and and I don't know if
it's like this in any otherindustry because I've never been
in any other industry as long asI've been a rental home but it's
(39:35):
like there's always a constantevolving whether it's slow,
whether it's fast, there is apoint where you can look at it
and go, we are always trying tobe better tomorrow than we are
today.
And today we are a little bitbetter than we were yesterday.
You know whether it be the pointof sale system that that really
made a difference whether it bethe vendors that we're finally
able to you know work withwhether it be some of the laws
(39:56):
that we can finally outshine andsay hey this is not correct.
This is what we want to do youknow putting the rent-to-owned
industry on a pedestal is notwhat I want to do but it's like
a reminder like hey it's notwhat you think let me tell you
about the great things that thishappens we pull millions of
people we help millions offamilies we are not just one
conglomerate and I don't mean tosay anything about any big
(40:18):
companies but we're not likeWalmart or we're not like Target
where it's everybody and we kindof take over all the areas it's
about having this one communitythat works its best to help the
people in the community thatthey're in.
And you know Magic's inPennsylvania and we've got other
ones in different states andit's always a great thing to see
them kind of together and reallyhelp each other and and kind of
(40:40):
move forward.
Now you know we're doing thislegend series as a way to get
the information from people likeyourself who've been doing this
for years and years and years.
How can we get the informationfrom then to now how do you want
this book that we're puttingtogether through April to be
seen in the future again I wouldlove it to tell the real story
(41:00):
of Rent to Own.
SPEAKER_00 (41:02):
I think the history is part of it of course I I'm
always fascinated to hear theanecdotes from the early days
right and we had our own earlydays so we were kind of around
in the early days but we as Isaid we weren't really part of
the industry per se.
So I love hearing how some ofthe others got their start and
it's interesting to me how somany of them started in in video
uh the same we did there wasthere was so how how did you you
(41:26):
know something that I I thinkwhen you were talking about it I
did miss you said that you werein video and then you started
doing rentals and you hadagreements that were kind of
like self-made how did you getfrom those two actual literal
rental agreements that were madeup how did you go from that
debition to kind of sort ofprobably should have done it
this way but we did it becausethat's how we what we knew to
(41:47):
all right we know this is solidthis is what we need to do.
It was definitely someone in therental industry I think it was
probably uh Ed Wynn you know Iuh he was he was the go-to guy
for legal stuff back then so II'm I'm guessing I probably said
hey Ed here's what we're usingand and he said yeah don't use
that anymore so we when wediscovered 8 Pro we definitely
(42:09):
uh upgraded our rentalagreements and and I'm pretty
sure it was through through whatwas your first um poos system
that you used uh we we used onethat we uh way back in the day
uh my dad hired someone to writea POS system for our video store
and then when it came time toadd rental to that I I was a
(42:31):
programmer it's one of thethings I loved to do when I was
younger so I I modified that toaccount for the rent to own and
then when the year 2000 wascoming along I created a Windows
version of it which I thoughtwas really good actually we we
loved that system but we reallywanted to expand a lot more and
as as we were moving into asituation when we had 13 stores
(42:52):
and I was still spending youknow 20 hours a week improving
our point of sale system andstill trying to run a company
with 13 stores I kind of madethe decision that I either had
to choose to be a computerprogrammer or to run the
business.
SPEAKER_01 (43:04):
So I chose to run the business and so our first
point of sale system long shortstory short was was Versarrent
we were one of the earlyadopters of the of the Windows
version of Versarint um whenthey first uh came out with that
but prior to that it was allself-made all self-free it
sounds like you like you wore alot of hats back then oh my gosh
(43:25):
yeah a lot of hats for sure forsure so come all the way back
now you're the president ofApril you've been on multiple
boards you have Magic which isalways revered as probably one
of the best cultured rent ownedcompanies in the industry which
it's funny you say that you youyou didn't know a lot about it
(43:48):
to being one of the ones thathave probably one of the better
cultures to say about not justto speak about it as in it has a
great culture but you wereactually you know Magic was
awarded one of the best placesto work in Pennsylvania was it
2023 or 2024?
SPEAKER_00 (44:03):
Actually three years in a row now yeah three years in
a row it's still running we'rehoping four years in a row yeah
we're just just completing thesurveys right now for that so
hopefully four years in a row.
SPEAKER_01 (44:13):
I mean that's that's great to see that it's come full
server that you've been able togrow with the industry and the
industry has kind of grown withyou.
There's a lot of leadership thatyou know we we've talked about
here and just so that I couldput this on the record Ed Wynne
is the number two person thateverybody always mentions as
helped me get to somewhere fromthis point.
And he's been doing it for solong and I know that he's out of
(44:34):
it now but I you know I alwayssay to everybody if you call I
guarantee you he's going toanswer the call because that's
Ed Wynne.
He just that's the guy he is butyou know Danielle I really
appreciate you being on theshow.
I really appreciate you takingout the time to just sit down
with us and talk a little bit ofshop talk a little bit about
what it was like kind of fromthe beginning and getting to
where we are and I will tell youguys we always appreciate you
(44:55):
guys watching the showespecially the Legend series
that you can learn just like Iam as I'm sitting here kind of
listening to Daniel andeverybody else talk about how it
was, how it used to be thetrials and tribulations and how
we ended up here being in thiswonderful industry, always
advocating for it in DC everyyear or growing or having the
best culture in our state.
That's exactly what we're hereto do just have the best place
(45:15):
and have the best people and Iwant to tell you guys I
appreciate you all the time forlistening in.
If you have any questions pleaseemail me Pete at the rtoshow
podcast dot com.
You can ask me any questionsabout Daniel like how the heck
did he get the greatest cultureor how did he ever figure out
April was alive and I will passthat along if anything happens I
promise you I will answer youback.
If you want to see us online youcan see us on Facebook,
(45:37):
Instagram, LinkedIn and nowYouTube where you're gonna see
this and I will tell you guys asalways, Daniel I appreciate your
time and I appreciate you beingwith us.
Get your collections loaded toget your sales time.
Have a great one
Hello, welcome to the Arts Goat Show Podcast.
I'm your host, P Shao, and guesswhat?
We're working on the Legendsseries, and we have another
Legend with us today, Dan Fisherfrom Magic all the way in
Pennsylvania.
Now, listen, there is so manythings I learned from the
Legends series going frombeginning to end, and some of
the people that we've had onhere, some of the people we're
(01:30):
going to have on here.
Dan is one of the greats, been agreat help and a good friend of
the show.
We just want to tell you, Dan,we appreciate that.
We appreciate you getting intothis series.
First off, Dan Fritchard, tellus how are you doing today?
How's everything going?
SPEAKER_00 (01:45):
I'm doing wonderfully today.
And I have to say, Pete, Iappreciate you as well.
I think I was one of yourearliest fans and just really
appreciate what you've done forthe industry.
And I'm just so glad to see yougrowing and developing and
becoming really more integralfor the industry.
So uh just love seeing yoursuccess.
So congratulations on that.
SPEAKER_01 (02:04):
I appreciate that.
In case anybody doesn't know,talking about a legend on a
backstory.
Dell was one of our very firstinterviews where we didn't even
have the ability to record.
We didn't have the word, so wecalled Dan and he's on his way
to work and he's giving us youknow the 411 and some of these
things.
We're running it down, we werejotting it all down to having
them on our next podcast.
You know, and we're talking, youknow, almost three years ago
now.
So it's crazy how uh I agreewith you.
(02:25):
We come along and we see we seethings on a different avenue in
a different light, and the waythey've prospered and and come
forward.
Really, it's been a great ride.
I know that somebody is now thepresident of Apro.
Uh, is it president of APRO?
Am I saying that right?
Yeah, president of the board.
So you you you're kind of allover the place now.
You're just making it happeneverywhere.
SPEAKER_00 (02:48):
Yeah, yeah.
It's uh it's it's been a wildride.
I I've uh I tell everyone, likeserving on the board of of both
APRO and and and Trib over theyears.
Uh I've been on both on and off.
And uh both boards are just souh helpful to me as a business
person, where you know, I I Ilove to give back to the
industry, but the thing I'velearned is you learn so much
(03:10):
contributing to the board thatit's been you know, it's been
really helpful to me and mybusiness just learning from some
of these these you know legendsthat you talk about on the
various boards and and justbeing up close and personal with
them.
You just you just learn so muchabout how you can improve your
business.
So I enjoy giving back and andanything I can do, I'm I'm happy
to help with.
SPEAKER_01 (03:31):
There's a lot of tenure on the board.
So when you're talking about theboard, you're talking about
people who have been there foryears and years.
You add that up, you know,centuries worth of rent to own.
Talking about people who havehad legendary tales and the
length of time in rent to own,when did you first get started
at rent-town?
Where did your tale start?
About what time did you come onto the rent to own scene and
(03:52):
start putting your mark on it?
SPEAKER_00 (03:54):
Yeah, so when I was in high school, actually, in
1984, my dad bought a very smallvideo store.
Uh, and and when I say small, itwas literally in a corner hotel
room of a of a hotel, uh like abanquet room, and it was it was
about the size of your yourtypical living room with 400
movies in it.
So that's what he bought.
(04:14):
And then shortly after that, uhso back in those days to rent a
movie, most people had to alsorent the VCR of a player that
played the movies.
And there was this um, you know,it was a really uh really big
hassle because you're luggingthis big heavy VCR home to your
house, you're trying to figureout how to hook it up to a TV,
which back in those days was notalways simple.
(04:34):
There were different connectorsand so on, and then you had it
for a day or two, and then you'dlug it back and return it.
And you know, my dad had theidea of why don't we just let
them keep the VCR?
Well, you know, we'll get somein that are for sale and let
them keep it for$10 a week, andafter a certain number of weeks,
they'll own it.
We have a customer that'sdedicated to us, and uh, that
(04:55):
was kind of the start of ourrent to own program.
I think that he had gotten theidea from I believe there were
Curtis Mathis dealers in ourarea at that time.
We're talking way back then.
And uh so that was how westarted in Rent to Own uh as a
you know, as part of our familybusiness.
And that that business went wentwell, uh, but we we just stuck
to the VCRs for for a couple ofyears until we had, you know,
(05:20):
the video business in those dayswas challenging.
So we were in the business for anumber of years.
Blockbuster came to town and uhreally challenged us, and and we
didn't really rise to thechallenge in the video business,
so we struggled.
Um but what what I realized wasthis this VCR uh rental program
was working pretty well.
It's the one consistent sourceof income we had.
There were no ups and downs.
(05:40):
We could count on that steady,you know,$10 a week from from
you know 20, 30 customers perstore.
And uh what was kind of thetipping point for us in terms
of, hey, let's make this abusiness was we had one of our
very best customers who hadrented a couple VCRs from us,
and they came to us and said, Iwant a camcorder, which for
those of you who are young mightnot know what that is, but that
(06:02):
was like a video recorder backbefore your phone could do it
for you.
And uh, and and so you would youknow hold it on your shoulder
and and you would videotapeeverything, and then you could
watch it in your VCR.
And these people were desperatefor one, and we literally didn't
have the$800 in the company tobuy this for them, and we knew
they were gonna pay, but we justdidn't have the money.
(06:23):
And so, you know, I said, Well,you know, I'm gonna do this.
And and I I you know I had acredit card and I went out and
bought this camcorder for them,and and then I rented to own
this this camcorder to them.
And and then, you know, afterthat, I said, Well, I'm gonna
make this my little businessinside of our video business.
And so we started renting uh TVsand stereos and and all sorts of
(06:46):
different uh types of items uhover the time, and then that
just expanded and expanded untilit became the primary business
over a long time.
SPEAKER_01 (06:54):
There's a couple questions that come along with
that.
The first thing is, can you tellme how big one of the first VCRs
were?
SPEAKER_00 (07:02):
Yeah, I'm trying to compare it to something so if
you see my shoulder width,right?
So I would have to carry it likethis, and it was probably this
high, so probably eight incheshigh, probably two two and a
half feet wide and two feetdeep, and and probably weighing
twenty pounds, plus or minus.
We've come a long way to putsomething in the back of your
(07:24):
pocket that can streameverything, right?
SPEAKER_01 (07:26):
Exactly.
We started doing the VCRs, asbig as they are, they're renting
for$10 a week.
You go into the camcorder side,you realize that there's a way
to make this happen.
As you're transitioning andmaking this very small
rent-to-owned store, what year,what about you, what year was
that?
SPEAKER_00 (07:43):
I'm gonna guess it was around 91, 92.
It was uh I I was graduatingcollege in 91, and I think it
was right around the same time,maybe even a little before that.
It might have been 1990, uh,when we were when we were
getting into that that part ofthe business.
SPEAKER_01 (07:58):
So at so you've got these two series, you've got you
know, the VCRs, we're trying toget into camcorders, you open up
this business.
What were some of the next linesthat you pulled in first that
you thought, you know, this isgoing to be a great idea, this
is gonna sell first?
SPEAKER_00 (08:12):
Well, it was funny because my wife Trisha, uh, who
you've met, she was a customerof one of our video stores back
then.
Of course, I didn't I didn'tknow her back then, I didn't
meet her until you know 12 yearsago.
But back then she was a customerof one of our video stores.
She lived down the road, and shesaid, you know, it was so
strange.
I liked the video store, it wasconvenient, the people were very
nice, but I would walk in andaround the the walls were all
(08:35):
these movies, and then in themiddle of the store were washers
and dryers and and uh you knowdifferent things like that.
So as far as what we got intonext, it was that it was laundry
items, anything we could buy atSam's Club, right?
So there was a Sam's Club thatopened in York PA, and that
that's the equivalent of aCostco for those of you who
don't have Sam's Club near you.
And and so we could buy as abusiness member, we could go in
(08:57):
there and buy wholesale cost on,I mean, wholesale is not that
much less than retail, butwashers and dryers, TVs,
stereos.
So that's that's the next typesof things we got into.
SPEAKER_01 (09:07):
So who was the first vendor back then?
Because you know, Costco, Sam'sClub, they're kind of available
to pretty much anybody who has acard.
If you have a small business,you can do that.
What were some of the vendorsthat wouldn't normally be
available to Costco or Sam'sClub that you started off with
first?
SPEAKER_00 (09:22):
Our first, and the one thing that is is I think a
little bit interesting about ourhistory is that we didn't know
anything about APRO or Trib atthat time.
We had no knowledge of them.
And and so a number of yearslater, we discovered, and I
don't know the year, but we justwe've been a member of APRO for
probably 25 years, give or take.
And and so when we finallydiscovered APRO, that's when we
(09:44):
started really discovering thevendors, and we started learning
the laws of rent to own, and westarted learning the best
practices in terms of margins.
And and so I was always soimpressed how I would go to
these shows, and even back then,you know, people like Lynn Leach
and you know, he he was one ofthe most prolific speakers at
that time, and uh, you know,Mike Tissett, I think, was
already speaking at that time,and and of course you heard from
(10:07):
Larry Carico.
And anyway, you know, I learnedso much from them, and I was
just so impressed that this thisgroup of people who were
competing with each other, whichhad that type of information.
But to get back to yourquestion, I think that our very
first vendor that wasn'taccessible to the public was GE
Appliances.
Um I and I can't remember how Igot connected with them.
I think I got connected withthem before we were a member of
(10:30):
APRO, and that may have been howwe discovered APRO.
But uh yeah, I think it was GEappliances was the first one.
SPEAKER_01 (11:25):
Did you ever really have a vendor at that point?
Because we are talking alreadyin the 90s.
Usually when I hear a kickbackon this question, it's usually
from the 80s.
But did you ever come across avendor that was kind of like,
I'm not really sure about therent-to-owned space and not
really comfortable with sellingthat?
Any obstacles that you had toovercome then, as far as vendors
were concerned?
SPEAKER_00 (11:46):
Oh, we've well we've encountered that through our
entire life cycle.
And I it's hard to remember thespecific ones from way back
then, but even more recently.
I mean, it was not that manyyears ago that we couldn't buy
Bose.
You know, that was probably fiveor six years ago when Bose
finally agreed to sell to us andand other you know, other
vendors like that because theythey just feel like they're, I
(12:07):
guess I won't say too good forrent to that's the that's the
perception we got as a as adealer, at least, is they they
felt like they they didn't wantto be in our stores, which I
think most of them over timewe've we've we've realized and
they've realized that ourcustomers are want their product
and can afford their product,they just need a payment plan
for it.
SPEAKER_01 (12:26):
What do you think going back to those first days
when you you've got the wallslined up and everything in the
center, what do you think thatyour unique approach to
rent-to-own actually made itsuccessful?
SPEAKER_00 (12:39):
You know, honestly, I think it's the same thing that
that helps us succeed today.
And I think it's just thatfamily approach.
In other words, our goal withdoing this was never about
maximizing every penny out ofevery piece of merchandise.
In fact, that was one of ourproblems early on, is we didn't
mark things up enough.
So we really just didn't wedidn't have a very good profit
(13:01):
margin.
But we always just wanted tohelp people get these things.
I mean, back to that very forfirst story about why we did the
rent to own in the first place.
It was to help people avoidhaving to lug VCRs home every
weekend.
And and so since the verybeginning, I think that's been
the story of our business is wewe want to help people, you
(13:21):
know, whatever we can do to helppeople, that's that's what we
try to lean on.
So helping, making sure thatyou're meeting, you're you're
serving the need that they have.
SPEAKER_01 (13:30):
Exactly.
What was so then what wasprobably I mean, because every
time that we talk to a legend,we know that there is a success.
You're here.
There's been plenty of years inbetween here and there, and some
trials, some tribulations thatthat that really kind of helped
you get here.
But so far, we're saying, let'ssay late 80s, early 90s, so you
(13:51):
know, almost 30 years.
What was the time in in rent toown where you said, you know
what, this this is a difficulttime.
This is not like normal.
We're we're we're definitelyhitting some difficult area in,
you know, this is turbulence onthis ride.
SPEAKER_00 (14:04):
Yeah, we went through many phases of that.
I mean, there's definitely beenups and downs throughout the
entire, you know, 40 plus yearsnow.
And um a a couple of those uhfor us, well, a high point was
when we finally decided we couldopen a rent-to-own only store.
So it took us a long time tofigure that out that hey, we can
we can open a rent-to-own store.
(14:26):
And that was a huge high pointfor us when we opened our very
first non-video store thatfeatured rent-to-own.
And it was a big risk, but we wetook that leap.
It was a 10,000 square footstore in a in a pretty prominent
shopping center, so we're payinga lot of rent for that time, and
and it went went very well,better than our expectations.
But then, you know, you gothrough phases where, as you do
(14:47):
in today's world, where we wegot to the point um very early
on where we had four stores, andthat doesn't sound like much in
today's world, but four storeswas a tipping point for us that
really caused us problems.
We had three stores, and I waskind of the what you would call
the DM at that point, and uhthey were three high-volume
stores, and and I uh, you know,I think I did a pretty good job.
(15:11):
I I had never been trained, Ididn't know what I was doing,
and I didn't have any leadershiptraining or any leadership
knowledge even.
And so I muddled through kind ofbeing a DM of those three
stores.
And then when we opened thefourth store, it was in a
tougher market.
Um, and that was one of ourbiggest struggles.
Our very first manager we put inthat store, who was our
strongest manager in thecompany, he came from our best
(15:33):
store.
He went to open this new store,and he he literally had a like a
nervous breakdown and and had tobe at because it was such a
different market, different thanhe was used to.
I really it took us a number ofyears to figure that out.
So, I mean, that was a hugetipping point.
It a opening in a very toughmarket, one we hadn't been, you
know, been in a similar marketbefore, and then simultaneously
(15:56):
just I think exceeding mycapacity at that point, because
again, I just didn't know what Iwas doing at that point.
That was a huge one, and thenyou know, we we've gone through
similar things where we were atfour stores for quite a while,
and then we we kind of came to adecision we either need to grow
or we need to figure out how tomake these stores better and
better.
And we felt like whenever weopened stores, it gave us energy
(16:18):
and and a renewed kind of life,and so we went from uh four to
eight stores in about two years.
Uh, and then we bought fivestores right after that.
And this is in the in the early2010s, I think it was around
2013.
And so we went from four tothirteen stores in about two
years, and that was a a huge umchallenge just again, as you can
(16:42):
imagine, yeah, trying to figureout how to how to lead, how to,
how to now start supervising DMswhen I didn't even really know
what I was doing as a DM.
And uh so teaching teaching allthat um was was challenging.
And that's that's kind of whenwe got to the point uh in about
2017, so a few years later, iswhen we we really dug into
(17:03):
leadership and leadershiptraining and development, and
and we we realized we needed toget back to the family roots
that made us made us who wewere, and and that's that's kind
of what led to that cultural,what we call our magic cultural
revolution, I guess you wouldsay.
Um but that's that's what led tothat is we wanted to get back to
where we were when we were uhwhen we were uh just a
(17:24):
family-owned uh business and notuh not so um where we didn't
have you know we just had thethree or four stores, I guess is
what I'm trying to say.
SPEAKER_01 (17:33):
When so coming to the other side of that coin,
when was the time when you knewthat you made it?
That you like like we're gonnabe here.
We're solid, we're gonna be hereregardless of the fact.
We can have a bad week or a badmonth, but this is what I'm
going to do, and magic is gonnastay.
SPEAKER_00 (17:50):
Honestly, I think it was it was when we we had a a
leadership meeting, our veryfirst leadership meeting that we
had ever had, which says a lot,I guess, in January of 2017.
And it was a very, very, verychallenging time for me
personally, for for the company,for our leadership team, because
we were just going through thathuge growth cycle and having to
churn a lot of employees fromthe company we bought.
(18:12):
And when we had that firstleadership off-site, it was a
two-day off-site, and uh, wecame away from that off-site
meeting feeling really, reallygood.
We felt like we have a lot todeal with, but we now have a
plan to deal with it.
So I think that's you know,that's something that was really
the turning point that said, allright, I know we got this now.
And from there on out, we'vejust I think we've we've you
(18:34):
know, obviously you have yourups and downs no matter what,
but we've really gone in a gooddirection ever since that then,
because we've just stayed withstayed the course with that
strategic planning and and andweekly follow-ups and just
making sure we're following theplan.
SPEAKER_01 (18:49):
Well, plan and process is extremely important
in this business, especiallywhen you're trying to grow and
do it successfully.
But taking the idea ofleadership and saying, you know,
we were able to give that andstart doing that, whether we
whether we knew what we weredoing or not, we started it and
we started going down this path.
But that's very important to astore.
(19:09):
Was there somebody or severalpeople when you first started
this out that were mentors toyou?
I know you've already mentionedthat, you know, at one point
when you first came on AprilHall at Mike Disney was talking
and Lindleise was talking, butwas there anybody that really
took you under the wing or was amentorship to you or to magic
and helped you kind of reallyget from where you were in the
(19:29):
beginning to where you are now?
SPEAKER_00 (19:31):
Uh there's no one particular person that's that
kind of helped magic moveforward, but I would say that
who helped me personally havethe confidence to help magic
move forward is the way I wouldsay it.
And and you know, from the veryfirst committee I served on in
the industry, I vividly rememberit was with Shannon Strunk and
(19:52):
Gary Farriman and myself.
And those two gentlemen, I wasjust this newbie in the
industry, and I was I'm a I'm anextreme introvert by nature, and
and I was just, you know, thatfirst meeting we were in, I was
just a mute almost, you know,and and uh but but I must have
said a few things that thatstruck a chord with them because
both of them really took aninterest in me.
(20:15):
And and Shannon in particular,you know, just just helped me
get uh not helped me get on theboard, but encouraged me to run
for the trib board and and thenrun for the Apro board and
actually in that reverse order.
And so Shannon and Gary inparticular, I I look up to as
early, early mentors, and morerecently over the last, you
know, ever since I got to knowhim, probably 12 or 15 years
(20:36):
ago, I'm not sure.
Mike Tissett has just alwaysbeen a guy who, you know, I've
never met a person more givingthan him.
But there's so many others.
I mean, Lynn Leach, we don'thave the personal connection
that I have with some of theothers, but he just always
teaching, always sharing.
And there's probably 20 morethat I'm missing.
Chris Boland, uh, what a greatleader he is and teacher.
(20:58):
Uh and especially for thosethose people who have you know
three or four stores orwhatever.
I wish I had met Chris back whenI had three stores.
I would have stayed with threestores and just done done what
he did, which is make them hugestores and super profitable.
And um so there's so manypeople, but the earliest ones
would have been uh uh Shannonand Gary for sure.
SPEAKER_01 (21:18):
Yeah, we you know, both of them are also going to
be on these on these podcasts.
And I tell Gary all the time,all the time, every time that I
talk to Gary, you have no ideahow many people mention your
name.
And you know, he always takes itas humble as a humble person
can.
He's not that type of person tobe, you know, volumeless and
just he's just a very humbleguy, but he always has some
(21:38):
great things to say.
He always is very genuine andvery, you know, he has a
mentorship mentality, whether helikes it or not.
You know, people just listen towhat he has to say.
And everybody I've talked to hasalways mentioned Gary at some
point in time.
And it's it's always it's alwaysgood to hear that, you know,
he's he's been able to help somany of us get to where we are.
(21:59):
And you know, talking abouthelping us getting to where we
are, you said early on that youdidn't know much of what was
going on with the rent-to-ownscene until you had come on
board April and you startedmeeting some of the talent and
the I want to say thepersonalities that came with
Apro, because I mean you've gotsome people Mike is a
personality in himself, youknow, it's just it's his
personality.
(22:19):
But like, when did you reallystart getting into the advocacy
part?
When did you start going, okay,you know what?
April's here for more than justthis.
There's an advocacy part, andhow can I participate?
SPEAKER_00 (22:30):
You know, it took me a long time to finally go to my
first legislative conference.
Um, and that's because I am anintrovert and I I feared going
to a legislator's office andfreezing up or saying the wrong
thing or putting my foot in mymouth, which is what introverts
do.
And uh, but I finally did it andI was paired with someone.
I I well I can't remember thatfirst time, but someone who had
(22:52):
been to other meetings waspaired up with me and went to my
meetings with me.
And as I tend to do, you know, Iwas fine in that meeting when
I'm one-on-one.
I usually am a fairly decentcommunicator.
And and then uh just taking awaythe fact that even if I don't
meet with the senator or thecongressperson, that I'm meeting
with the staff member whoprobably is driving decisions
(23:13):
anyway, and really feeling heardand feeling like we do have a
voice and that they do want tohear from us.
That was very encouraging to me.
And um and and again, but thefact that most of the people I
spoke to had really no realknowledge of our industry and
how it works and the people wehelp.
And um, you know, if they hadany knowledge, it was because
(23:36):
maybe they ran it from RenaCenter in college or something
like that.
Uh, but most of them didn't haveany idea that we help people who
maybe don't have moneymanagement skills that maybe
they were taught as a child.
Um, and and they these you knowmany of our customers just don't
have that skill set, and we helpthem learn that.
And uh just sharing that messagewas very encouraging to me.
(23:57):
And I think I might have missedone of those legislative
conferences since then, and uhwe had a conflict for some
reason, but it's been such agood experience um getting
involved in that, and uh uh andand I guess that's the answer to
your question is just that thelegislative conference, I would
recommend it for anyone andeveryone.
And you've been there, youshould know exactly what I'm
talking.
SPEAKER_01 (24:17):
You know what?
Uh I remember the first yearthat I went, I didn't know what
to expect.
Like you, I was like, I've donea lot of things, but standing in
front of somebody who's been onCNN and kind of helped write the
laws for the country, that'swhere I caught a drawing point.
I was a little worried.
But uh I was able to go with acouple people that kind of
really put me on my ear andsaid, Pete, you're you're you're
overthinking this way too much.
(24:38):
Like, if this is what you'repassionate about, you're
probably gonna sit in front ofsomebody who has no idea what
we're talking about.
And you're informing them like abrand new customer.
This is why we're so important,this is how we affect everybody.
And uh I remember coming out ofit going, I've got to do this
again.
I really do.
Uh, you know, part of part ofthe way the show transitioned is
I never thought that I would bedoing this.
(25:00):
I I never thought that I wouldcome down this road.
Um, at some point in time, I wasvery uh kind of like yourself.
I'm like, I I'm to myself, I'mjust that kind of guy.
And I remember early on uh whenDanny was there, you know, uh it
actually Amberly is a reason whyI'm doing this.
If you want to come all the wayback full circle, she she was
pitching a commercial idea, andDanny was like, you know what,
(25:22):
I'll do it.
I was like, I don't know, Idon't know.
And uh well, she pitched theidea, and I was like, I don't
know.
And Danny said, Well, I'll doit.
And I was like, there's no wayyou're beating me.
There's that's just not gonnahappen.
SPEAKER_00 (25:31):
And so lo and behold, she created this whole
this this whole thing thathappened later and later, and
it's funny, but you know I re Iremember your your buddy, your
not buddies, it was uh uhranking your superman type
commercials and all that stuff.
Yeah, I I think I saw every oneof those.
I was uh that was uh that wasgreat.
Yeah, great.
SPEAKER_01 (25:49):
We can't we keep full circle from that, and uh
and I gotta say, you know, it'sthe people that we interact with
in our lives that have helped usget to where we are.
And you know, you always want toremember the mentors, you always
want to remember the people thathave helped you along the way.
And you know, one of thosethings was Pete, you gotta go to
one of these advocacy things.
I was talking to uh Charlesabout it, and then I had talked
to a lot of other people aboutit, and you gotta go to it, and
(26:10):
it was so important.
But I just started last year,you know, this is my second year
2024, 2023 was my first year.
When did you first attend?
SPEAKER_00 (26:18):
I think probably 15 years ago, and that that sounds
crazy because time uh in flies,right?
And so it doesn't seem that longago, but yeah, it was probably
15, maybe more years ago.
It's been quite a while.
SPEAKER_01 (26:30):
Yeah, it's it's one of those things like I can't
believe that I'm I'm actuallygetting ready for my next one
next year.
Like I have to plan for itbecause of everything that's
going on, especially because youknow, thank goodness the growth
of the show and everything.
So I've got like I've got likepretty big the calendar already.
But you know, talking aboutfuture, coming from the past
that you've had, kind of growingan organic store from literally
(26:53):
not even being a store to goinginto this rental location and
and kind of going above andbeyond, not only opening your
stores, but buying other storesand kind of bringing that all
together.
What is something that you wouldexpect to say to, let's say,
somebody in the future, somebodywho's creating a brand now,
somebody who's talking aboutopening a store or getting, you
(27:14):
know, because this can be alittle bit different now than it
was then.
Back then it was a little bitharder to understand rental.
Now it's it's on a few morestreet corners.
But what is something that youwould say to somebody who's
going down that road, that paththat you've been on, and say,
you know what?
If there was anything that uh Iwish I would have known back
then, it was this?
SPEAKER_00 (27:31):
Yeah, um, well, there's so much, but I'll start
with a couple.
Number one, I wish I hadconnected with the industry
sooner.
Um, so so making insertingyourself into whatever industry
you're you're involved with, butcertainly in our industry, being
a part of April, being a part ofTrip, sharing what you know and
then learning from others, likeit's a give and take, right?
(27:53):
And that's what's so cool aboutour industry is people are
willing to share what succeedsbecause I think everyone in this
industry, or I should say mostpeople in this industry,
understand that a rising tidelifts all boats.
And if we help if we help everycompany in the industry serve
our customers better, then ourindustry is perceived better.
(28:13):
And so if we can just helpeveryone do that better, that
helps us all.
It helps expand our reach.
And so we don't have to becutthroat and and keep our our
ideas a secret because we wanteveryone to do better, and that
just helps our customers uh loveour industry even more than they
already do, and it helps themspread the word, I would say.
So that's one of them, and thenand then you know for me
(28:36):
personally, learning um learningabout leadership, learning uh
what it takes to be a goodleader.
Uh I I learned that way toolate.
So it's it's one of my passionsin our company, and it's one of
my passions within 8 Pro andTrib is sharing what I've
learned over the years that Iwish I had known 20 years
earlier.
So those those two things aretwo of the keys, I would say,
(28:57):
yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (28:57):
You know, it's funny you say that, you know, um about
the rising tide, because therehave been times where we're
until as a whole, as an industryand as an individual location,
whether it be magic, whether itbe raps, whether it be buddies,
whatever the case is.
We get this moniker from themedia that, you know, we're
(29:18):
we're, you know, kind of littlecutthroat and we're we're kind
of doing things that probablynormal businesses wouldn't do.
What would you say to that rightnow, after all the experience
and all the time that you'vespent growing and now going to
the April and the Trip sources,uh, you know, meeting of the
Minds, RTO world, and now beingon the boards, what would you
say to that?
SPEAKER_00 (29:38):
Well, I think so much of what what we talk about
at those meetings is all abouthow do we help our customers,
how do we serve our customersbetter?
And anyone who's critical ofthat, my my messaging always is
talk to our customers.
Read read our Google reviews.
We have our company inparticular, we have hundreds of
and hundreds of Google reviewsthat are five-star at every one
(30:00):
of our stores, and they'resincere.
That's why I say read them, youknow, come to our stores and
talk to our customers becausethey love us.
We have generational customers.
There's there's not a lot ofcompanies in this country or
worldwide, I would say, thathave four generations of
customers, where you have agrandmother, a daughter, a you
know, a grandchild, and so on.
(30:21):
And and we have many, manycustomers who have three
generations.
I I I saw someone post it on theTrib Connections, I think it was
a four-generation uh gap theother day.
And I'm sure we have that atMagic.
I'm not aware of specifics, butwe have a number of customers
that we dealt with way back whenwho now have their children and
their grandchildren renting fromus.
And if we're you know not takingcare of them and we're not
(30:43):
serving them and we're notproviding them with the value
that they feel like they'regetting, they wouldn't come
back.
You know, if if we're quoteunquote taking advantage of
them, they wouldn't come backfor the second rental item, much
less have a whole house full ofproducts from magic, and then
have encourage their childrenand their grandchildren to come
to Magic to fill their houseswith products too.
So you know, I just encouragepeople to do more research and
(31:05):
and talk to the actual customersinstead of listening to sources
that may not have the fullstory.
SPEAKER_01 (31:12):
Well, you say they came to magic, they're from
magic.
Where did the magic name comefrom?
SPEAKER_00 (31:18):
Really out of thin air.
So when we first started, like Isaid, we were in the video
business and and our name wasMovies Galore.
We did not invent that name,that was inherited from the
company we bought it from.
And uh and so we were MoviesGalore for the longest time, and
then we were Movies Galore andRent to Own, I think.
I forget, I forget how that was,but we just we had to come up
(31:39):
with a name, and so webrainstormed.
And at that time, I think it wasme and my dad and my mom who did
all the brainstorming late atnight, usually at a Denny's.
And we uh we uh you know we werethrowing around ideas and I
think my dad said what aboutmagic and I was like I love that
you know magic rent to owns andthen we we decided to spell it
(31:59):
in a quirky way just to make itquirky you know so I kind of
regret that a little bit becauseI can't tell you how many times
people say are you with Majakyou know or some other some
other other pronunciation but umbut it's uh yeah it was just
kind of pulled out of thin airwe were throwing around
brainstorming ideas and I'mpretty sure it was my dad that
threw out the name magic and weall we all I like that idea I
(32:21):
like that story.
SPEAKER_01 (32:22):
You know coming through those times as well
there was a there was a time ortwo where there was some
regulation that popped up and itkind of almost put Rent to home
on a pause.
Were were you involved in thatin any way?
SPEAKER_00 (32:34):
Did that affect you?
I was blissfully ignorant backthen.
That was before I had discoveredAPRO and TRIB and and honestly
it's it's funny to say thatbecause Pennsylvania was really
a hot spot for that forpotential problems at that time
and I was just totally unaware.
We didn't know you know we justwere we're kind of making it up
as we went along at that timeand I think that was in the late
(32:57):
80s when that was happeningmaybe the early 90s and uh we
hadn't really discovered APROuntil about that time or a
little after that.
And it's one of the reasons thatI I again I would encourage
everyone to discover theindustry groups earlier because
it could have been catastrophicfor us if if we had been you
know big enough to beinvestigated by anyone because
(33:17):
they would have looked at ourrental agreement and found it
was completely lacking becausewe just made it up, you know,
and and so on.
SPEAKER_01 (33:24):
So we were uh blissfully unaware I guess is
the way I would say it you knowthere there was definitely you
know there was a misconceptionin the law in the government
about how we did what we did andthe benefits outweighing the
what they would considernegatives and uh not
understanding you know genuinelywhere we're coming from how well
(33:47):
we can help the consumer and thefact that they're not locked in
in any way shape or form.
You know what how would yourespond to some of those
narratives nowadays?
If you're if you're going to youknow if you're going to let's
say a legislator's office and Iknow that you're you're the
recluse so I'm gonna I'm but butin your words you know you go
(34:08):
into the office and you actuallydo have somebody who understands
where it's home at least alittle bit at least what they
think and they're in one ofthose you know tackling states
that are like hey you know whatyou're in DC I'm from this state
I don't like what's going onwhat would you say to them that
somebody that has this negativemoniker this negative narrative
to for them to own well I Ithink that the negative uh
(34:31):
implication perceptions comefrom a lack of correct
information and and so again Iwould educate them on the on the
transaction and the laws thatalready govern the transaction
which the biggest mixedmisconception I hear is people
that say we lock people intolong-term agreements.
SPEAKER_00 (34:50):
And anyone who's ever worked in rent to own and I
think 99.999% of our customerswhoever have listened to us when
we explain the agreement theyunderstand completely that it's
exactly the opposite that acustomer has complete
flexibility they are able tocancel their agreement at any
time and uh and they don't oweus anything.
(35:12):
You know I I think inPennsylvania and most states by
law we can't charge a pickupfee.
We when they say to us hey Idon't want to rent this anymore
we'll go pick it up at theirhouse they don't owe us anything
and it's it's and then if theywant to come back later they can
come back later and mostcompanies in rent to own offer
what you know the term lifetimereinstatement meaning that if if
(35:33):
someone rents something from us,let's say it's a 75 inch TV that
they because they wanted towatch football season and and
they pay six months on a TV andthen they're like, you know I
can't I can't really afford thisanymore they can come back a
year later and and they can pickup right where they left off
with a similar TV and we givethem credit for every payment
they made.
I mean what's a more flexibleconsumer friendly transaction
(35:56):
than that I would say thereisn't one in existence.
The counter to that might beyeah but they pay a lot more for
that.
Well they do pay more for thatbut they the the thing that
again is not really widely uhspread is the fact that during
that time we cover all repairswe offer free delivery and setup
if they don't like it anymore wewe can pick it up and return it
(36:16):
and we have that lifetimereinstatement.
So yes it's more for a TV thanto go to Walmart and buy a TV
but you have a lot offlexibility and a lot of
built-in uh services thatWalmart isn't providing either
so um you know I I I uh enjoythose conversations because I
think that the that that that uhthe options I think is is is the
(36:39):
way I like to uh explain it thebest is we're giving the
consumer options and if he orshe doesn't like the options we
have to offer they can just stoprenting from us and they can go
anywhere else they want and theycan just keep on rolling and
keep on rolling.
I agree.
SPEAKER_01 (36:53):
With everything that you've been through and some of
the things that you've seenbecause you've been doing you've
been going to DC for a whileyou've seen you know the rising
tides and the fall sometimeswhether it be an April whether
it be in trip whether it be amagic we come out on on the
other end of this you know I'dlike to say then come out on the
other end of it okay we're doingall right what about this
(37:14):
industry what about magic wouldyou like people to remember
years from now?
SPEAKER_00 (37:21):
I think it's that specifically I'll start with
magic I think what I would lovefor people to remember about
magic is that we cared aboutpeople and we care about our
employees.
Our coworkers are what makes uswho we are and because we care
about them and we um wedemonstrate that daily to them
(37:42):
they take care of our of ourcustomers and so our customers
we have you know we havecustomers as with most companies
that do that are in thisbusiness that bring us pizza
they bring us cookies they bringand not me they don't bring me
that but they bring the peoplein the stores that the people
they deal with daily so I go andeat the cookies sometimes but no
I would love them to rememberthat our customers love us and
(38:04):
our employees love us because wevalue them and we treat them
with respect.
You know we always talk abouthow we want our customers to
feel when they come into magicwe want them to feel the same
way that a customer might feelwhen they walk into Nordstrom's
if they're a multimillionaire,right?
So we want our customers to feelthat sense of respect and
(38:25):
inclusion and and uh we weaccept everyone and we want them
to feel like they're a part ofthe magic family.
And that's what I would like forthat.
As far as the industry goes Imean I think that it's it's a
very similar thing.
I think industry wide mostcompanies in our industry their
goal is to help customers haveoptions help customers have
(38:45):
products that they couldn'totherwise have and provide them
with the choices of how to howto pay for that and whether they
want to own it or not.
SPEAKER_01 (38:54):
So I think it's a similar message industry wide
well you know you always want tobe remembered for the great
things regardless some therethere's there's some trials and
tribulations along the way thatcan happen and you know it's
sometimes it's it's just as wellto get through those because you
learn a lesson there's somethingout of it that you take out of
it that you can take with youfor good bad or indifferent you
(39:14):
know you learn from it you don'tdo it again and you figure out a
way to make it work for you.
If I did this and it didn't worknow I try this and I'm gonna
stick to that because I know theother side of that coin is a bad
part of the equation.
You know part of what I alwaysrealize and and I don't know if
it's like this in any otherindustry because I've never been
in any other industry as long asI've been a rental home but it's
(39:35):
like there's always a constantevolving whether it's slow,
whether it's fast, there is apoint where you can look at it
and go, we are always trying tobe better tomorrow than we are
today.
And today we are a little bitbetter than we were yesterday.
You know whether it be the pointof sale system that that really
made a difference whether it bethe vendors that we're finally
able to you know work withwhether it be some of the laws
(39:56):
that we can finally outshine andsay hey this is not correct.
This is what we want to do youknow putting the rent-to-owned
industry on a pedestal is notwhat I want to do but it's like
a reminder like hey it's notwhat you think let me tell you
about the great things that thishappens we pull millions of
people we help millions offamilies we are not just one
conglomerate and I don't mean tosay anything about any big
(40:18):
companies but we're not likeWalmart or we're not like Target
where it's everybody and we kindof take over all the areas it's
about having this one communitythat works its best to help the
people in the community thatthey're in.
And you know Magic's inPennsylvania and we've got other
ones in different states andit's always a great thing to see
them kind of together and reallyhelp each other and and kind of
(40:40):
move forward.
Now you know we're doing thislegend series as a way to get
the information from people likeyourself who've been doing this
for years and years and years.
How can we get the informationfrom then to now how do you want
this book that we're puttingtogether through April to be
seen in the future again I wouldlove it to tell the real story
(41:00):
of Rent to Own.
SPEAKER_00 (41:02):
I think the history is part of it of course I I'm
always fascinated to hear theanecdotes from the early days
right and we had our own earlydays so we were kind of around
in the early days but we as Isaid we weren't really part of
the industry per se.
So I love hearing how some ofthe others got their start and
it's interesting to me how somany of them started in in video
uh the same we did there wasthere was so how how did you you
(41:26):
know something that I I thinkwhen you were talking about it I
did miss you said that you werein video and then you started
doing rentals and you hadagreements that were kind of
like self-made how did you getfrom those two actual literal
rental agreements that were madeup how did you go from that
debition to kind of sort ofprobably should have done it
this way but we did it becausethat's how we what we knew to
(41:47):
all right we know this is solidthis is what we need to do.
It was definitely someone in therental industry I think it was
probably uh Ed Wynn you know Iuh he was he was the go-to guy
for legal stuff back then so II'm I'm guessing I probably said
hey Ed here's what we're usingand and he said yeah don't use
that anymore so we when wediscovered 8 Pro we definitely
(42:09):
uh upgraded our rentalagreements and and I'm pretty
sure it was through through whatwas your first um poos system
that you used uh we we used onethat we uh way back in the day
uh my dad hired someone to writea POS system for our video store
and then when it came time toadd rental to that I I was a
(42:31):
programmer it's one of thethings I loved to do when I was
younger so I I modified that toaccount for the rent to own and
then when the year 2000 wascoming along I created a Windows
version of it which I thoughtwas really good actually we we
loved that system but we reallywanted to expand a lot more and
as as we were moving into asituation when we had 13 stores
(42:52):
and I was still spending youknow 20 hours a week improving
our point of sale system andstill trying to run a company
with 13 stores I kind of madethe decision that I either had
to choose to be a computerprogrammer or to run the
business.
SPEAKER_01 (43:04):
So I chose to run the business and so our first
point of sale system long shortstory short was was Versarrent
we were one of the earlyadopters of the of the Windows
version of Versarint um whenthey first uh came out with that
but prior to that it was allself-made all self-free it
sounds like you like you wore alot of hats back then oh my gosh
(43:25):
yeah a lot of hats for sure forsure so come all the way back
now you're the president ofApril you've been on multiple
boards you have Magic which isalways revered as probably one
of the best cultured rent ownedcompanies in the industry which
it's funny you say that you youyou didn't know a lot about it
(43:48):
to being one of the ones thathave probably one of the better
cultures to say about not justto speak about it as in it has a
great culture but you wereactually you know Magic was
awarded one of the best placesto work in Pennsylvania was it
2023 or 2024?
SPEAKER_00 (44:03):
Actually three years in a row now yeah three years in
a row it's still running we'rehoping four years in a row yeah
we're just just completing thesurveys right now for that so
hopefully four years in a row.
SPEAKER_01 (44:13):
I mean that's that's great to see that it's come full
server that you've been able togrow with the industry and the
industry has kind of grown withyou.
There's a lot of leadership thatyou know we we've talked about
here and just so that I couldput this on the record Ed Wynne
is the number two person thateverybody always mentions as
helped me get to somewhere fromthis point.
And he's been doing it for solong and I know that he's out of
(44:34):
it now but I you know I alwayssay to everybody if you call I
guarantee you he's going toanswer the call because that's
Ed Wynne.
He just that's the guy he is butyou know Danielle I really
appreciate you being on theshow.
I really appreciate you takingout the time to just sit down
with us and talk a little bit ofshop talk a little bit about
what it was like kind of fromthe beginning and getting to
where we are and I will tell youguys we always appreciate you
(44:55):
guys watching the showespecially the Legend series
that you can learn just like Iam as I'm sitting here kind of
listening to Daniel andeverybody else talk about how it
was, how it used to be thetrials and tribulations and how
we ended up here being in thiswonderful industry, always
advocating for it in DC everyyear or growing or having the
best culture in our state.
That's exactly what we're hereto do just have the best place
(45:15):
and have the best people and Iwant to tell you guys I
appreciate you all the time forlistening in.
If you have any questions pleaseemail me Pete at the rtoshow
podcast dot com.
You can ask me any questionsabout Daniel like how the heck
did he get the greatest cultureor how did he ever figure out
April was alive and I will passthat along if anything happens I
promise you I will answer youback.
If you want to see us online youcan see us on Facebook,
(45:37):
Instagram, LinkedIn and nowYouTube where you're gonna see
this and I will tell you guys asalways, Daniel I appreciate your
time and I appreciate you beingwith us.
Get your collections loaded toget your sales time.
Have a great one
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