November 11, 2025 • 51 mins
A family credit line, a few sturdy appliances, and a belief that people deserve dignity—that’s where our conversation with Kathy Windsor begins. From Texas beginnings to a Missouri legacy, we trace how National TV Sales and Rental grew on discipline, low collections, and vendor trust rather than bank debt or shortcuts.
Kathy takes us inside the early days of rent-to-own when financing was scarce and selection was thin—three living room SKUs, coil stoves, and refrigerators you could count on. Then came the VCR boom, a moment that reshaped demand and taught the team to keep scanning for the next category that could transform the floor. We talk about advocacy and the day policy nearly sank the industry: when the IRS pushed three-year depreciation on products that typically turned in 18 months. Mark Windsor’s direct work with lawmakers helped protect a business model and countless livelihoods, a reminder that relationships and straight talk still move mountains.
The hardest chapter hits like a siren: a 13-alarm fire leveled their warehouse the night before a managers’ meeting, wiping out premium inventory. What saved them? Years of paying vendors on time and treating every partner like a stakeholder. Whirlpool and furniture suppliers answered with emergency deliveries, warehouse pricing, and generous dating that kept stores open and teams working. Kathy also shares the human side: a collections culture rooted in fairness, a habit of anonymous giving, and Operation Fresh Start, which furnishes homes for families starting over. Three generations of customers later, loyalty looks like a client choosing to buy a Nintendo through them instead of a big-box store—because loyalty earned the sale.
We round out with succession and purpose. Aaron’s journey from routes to president modernized culture while guarding the Windsor non-negotiables: low charge-offs, quality goods, and steady growth. Kathy’s next act—farm-to-table beef—carries the same rigor: non-GMO feed, no antibiotics or growth hormones, and direct sales that reward trust. We look ahead to real headwinds—tariffs, inflation, shifting labor expectations—and explain why staying debt-light, vendor-connected, and essential-first will win the next decade.
If this story sparked ideas or gave you courage to lead with conviction, subscribe, share with a friend who needs it, and leave a review with your biggest takeaway. Then email your questions to Pete@theRTOShow Podcast.com and we’ll keep the conversation going.
APRO
Association of Progressive Rental Organizations
www.TheRTOshowPodcast.com For swag and information
Pete@thertoshowpodcast.com
Facebook - The RTO Show
Instagram - the_rto_show
Linkedin - The RTO Show
Youtube - The RTO Show Podcast
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (01:02):
Hey everybody, welcome to the RTO show.
I'm your host, Pete Choo, andtoday I'm with a different
legend who has been in thisbusiness for a very long time.
We're gonna see a different sideof things with Miss Kathy
Windsor.
And let me tell you, theirfamily is all over the area.
Now, your son, does he run thebusiness now?
SPEAKER_00 (01:22):
Yes, he is president.
SPEAKER_01 (01:23):
So Aaron runs the business.
Okay.
So if you guys know Aaron, he'sthe guy with the hat and he
comes around with the he's gotthat the manliest beard, I know.
Uh I love him.
He's a great guy.
So, Kathy, in your years thatyou've done this, this is a
family thing now.
SPEAKER_00 (01:38):
It is.
All right.
At one time we had 13 familymembers working there at one
time.
But now there's just three ofus.
But uh, and I'd I'm I have giventhe reins over to Aaron, and I'm
the CEO and the owner, but I'vekind of gone back to the farm
and have joined another men'sclub that I have to break
(02:00):
through.
SPEAKER_01 (02:01):
Well, you're not shy of that.
SPEAKER_00 (02:03):
No, I've done it before.
SPEAKER_01 (02:04):
The entire name of the business is National TV
Rental and Sales.
SPEAKER_00 (02:08):
National TV Sales and Rental.
SPEAKER_01 (02:09):
Sales and rentals.
Okay, I got it.
SPEAKER_00 (02:11):
Forget the name in the middle.
SPEAKER_01 (02:12):
I gotta get it right.
So when you guys started this,what year was that about?
SPEAKER_00 (02:18):
We started in Missouri.
This is our 39th anniversary.
So we started in Missouri in um84.
SPEAKER_01 (02:27):
So we've been in the business.
SPEAKER_00 (02:29):
Uh 40 about 44 years, but we don't count the
other ones because we sold thatcompany in Texas.
We started in Texas.
Uh I was uh corporate managerfor 7-Eleven.
Uh just had Aaron, and Mark justdidn't decide that he knew more
than a boss.
So he wasn't working at thetime.
(02:51):
He was drawing unemployment forthe first time.
So a gentleman from Lone Star TVkept calling him, wanting him to
come in, come in, come in, andMark would say, Today?
And he said, Yeah, today.
He says, Okay, and then Markwouldn't come in.
So about the fourth day, thisgentleman called him.
He said, I'll deal you a deal.
You either come in today andcome to work, or I'm gonna call
(03:11):
unemployment.
So Mark went in there, and uhthey couldn't believe they paid
him for this.
And they just handed him a bunchof cards that says the set or
the money, and he loved it.
And he got raises his first twoyears, and then about two years
later, we opened up across thestreet.
(03:32):
And the type of man Mark was, hewas still working out his um two
weeks' notice across the street,and I opened up our own business
on the other side.
Okay, so we were going againsteach other.
SPEAKER_01 (03:49):
Family competition.
SPEAKER_00 (03:50):
Yeah, but then um had another kit, had two more
kids, and Gal the Texas area wasa little rough.
So we moved back to Missouri andopened our own in '86.
SPEAKER_01 (04:04):
So we are talking about Mark Windsor.
SPEAKER_00 (04:06):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (04:07):
Okay.
So Mark Windsor is the patriarchof what started with you.
Yes.
And then funnels down to Aaron.
Are any of the other childreninvolved in this?
SPEAKER_00 (04:15):
Michelle, my youngest daughter, she does the
uh vehicles and she does uhkeeps part of some of the
checkbooks and stuff like that.
She's not involved in a lotbecause I pulled her away to
sell beef.
SPEAKER_01 (04:30):
So I mean, you've been in this business a long
time.
SPEAKER_00 (04:33):
I have.
SPEAKER_01 (04:34):
You and you, your husband, your family have done a
lot with this business, notincluding with Apro, but kind of
opening these businesses.
Where are the primary uhlocations of the store?
What state states do you?
It's Missouri.
They're all in Missouri.
Yes, they are.
So you start in '86 in Missouri.
What was it like starting backthen?
Because that like back then waslike the Wild West.
(04:55):
It wasn't like now where I cango to a buddy's and get a
franchise, or I can, you know,kind of start because I know
that the I know kind of like thecookie-cutter outfits of what we
already have done.
But back then there wasn'tnothing pre-listed.
It was kind of like, hey,everybody's kind of going to
everybody else and kind offiguring it all out.
How was it like starting in 86?
SPEAKER_00 (05:12):
There was no one in Missouri and financing was
unheard of.
And we ended up with uh askingMark's father and one of Mark's
father and a business anotherbusiness associate.
Mark's father said, no, no one'sgonna rent to own, no one's
gonna do that.
(05:32):
But the business partner said,Dick, if you don't do it, I
will.
So then we started the businesswith$30,000 cash and a hundred
and fifty thousand dollar creditline because we had these two
businessmen that signed off onus.
And we just just bought a littlebit of time and that's what we
did.
SPEAKER_01 (05:52):
That you know, you're not the first person to
say that, but you are a part ofa member of very few people who
would who did it that waybecause it's a lot harder.
It's a very caste-intensivebusiness up front when you're
trying to fill showrooms and dothat, such.
So going in with a with a withthat very, you know, set mindset
of we're gonna do it, you know,through the business and not
just take out loans and kind ofdo that.
(06:12):
And not that it is anythingwrong with that, but like how
did that set some kind of, youknow, did you get a couple speed
bumps because there wasn't a lotof monetary uh capital in the
background?
SPEAKER_00 (06:22):
Right, because when you're out, you're out.
SPEAKER_01 (06:23):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (06:24):
We didn't go and get more money or whatever.
We've got some dating later onwhen we'd made a name for
ourselves.
But uh we just had like afurniture salesman that used to
come around and had five or sixlines, and then we had a
distributor that had uhappliances and televisions, and
(06:44):
we just had the two to start,but we paid our bills on time
and they increased our creditlimit and it worked.
SPEAKER_01 (06:52):
So, who was the first company that you did
business with?
SPEAKER_00 (06:56):
Otco.
SPEAKER_01 (06:58):
I don't think I remember them.
SPEAKER_00 (07:00):
Uhco is the appliance, and we still do
business with them.
We still buy our ACs and thingsfrom them.
And then we FC Grace was whatthey used to call a ragman.
He would come around and seeyou, and he had a big satchel,
and he had all these swatchesand different companies and
stuff, and you would buy you hadto buy something from him
(07:20):
because he had so many lines,but that covered all of our
furniture and stuff.
SPEAKER_01 (07:25):
So when he came in with with rent owned being new,
did he just come in and say,Okay, I'm gonna we're we're
gonna go ahead and open thatline, or was there some
trepidation there, kind of like,hey, I you gotta explain to me,
what are we doing?
Yeah, he he uh liked me and anddid that that helped did that
(07:46):
help get it over, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (07:47):
He liked me because he would come in and Tehek was
sitting on my desk.
I just get on the floor andstart playing with you know the
swatches and the and thedifferent pieces of furniture.
And he felt that we were goodChristian people and he believed
in it.
So we started with all of hislines and paid our bills and it
(08:10):
increased from there.
SPEAKER_01 (08:11):
When you did the furniture, if you remember, like
was there a huge selection atthat point in time?
unknown (08:17):
No, there wasn't.
SPEAKER_01 (08:18):
What what kind of what kind of selection did you
have back then?
SPEAKER_00 (08:20):
Like for living room furniture, we only bought from
one per one person, and I wouldbuy, they probably had three
SKUs that I liked because I wasvery uh picky about what I uh
brought into the store.
It had to last, it had to passpast my test.
And um, so I would just getthose three model numbers and I
(08:44):
would put like two fabrics oneach of the styles, so I'd have
a full truck.
SPEAKER_01 (08:50):
Okay.
So so it was basically like onemodel with different colors on
it.
SPEAKER_00 (08:54):
Three models for different colors on it.
Three different colors.
SPEAKER_01 (08:57):
That's okay.
SPEAKER_00 (08:58):
And it all came from the same person.
SPEAKER_01 (09:00):
So then what appliances did you guys get?
Was it just a simple washer anddryer?
Was there a like a level,entry-level, middle level, high
level?
SPEAKER_00 (09:07):
Not the end.
Then it was just a washer anddryer and a 17-foot refrigerator
and a 21-foot side by side withno ice and water, and uh coil
stove.
SPEAKER_01 (09:20):
Those are like a staples.
I don't think coil stoves havegone anywhere.
And they kind of look a littlebit different, but they're all
about the same, right?
So we started in '86.
When was it that you kind ofstarted branching out into other
things besides those main coreitems?
SPEAKER_00 (09:31):
First we got it making a profit, Lebanon making
a profit.
When it started making a profit,then we opened up another store
in Clinton.
So that took up all of our uhline of credit again.
And then they would have sales,and then you would just bring in
or try something.
Uh the VCRs became a little bitmore affordable and with a
(09:56):
wireless remote instead of awired remote, so you just added
to it.
Uh, we started out in Texas, weonly had a 19-inch TV and a
25-inch console, and that's allyou had.
And you didn't get to pick itout.
Depending on your app, we gaveyou a television equal to your
app.
So if it your application didn'tpan out, no one answered the
(10:19):
phone, then you got a used oneout of the back.
Now, when you paid that off,then I'd give you a brand new
one.
SPEAKER_01 (10:24):
Understood.
SPEAKER_00 (10:25):
We was the only deal in town, or one of the only
deals, because rent home startedin Texas.
So it was either us or nobody.
SPEAKER_01 (10:36):
So, how did you develop when you start 86?
You have a couple of simplelineup core items.
Where did you get theinformation, or how did you set
up like the application processor the rental order process and
the agreements at that point intime?
SPEAKER_00 (11:40):
Okay, we took had our agreements and our
applications from Texas, tookthem to the local lawyer, and
followed all the 10-point andfollowed all the rules and
regulations.
Uh, there wasn't that muchchange from Missouri.
We didn't have computers, we didhave the big bank machines, so
(12:02):
you'd put the cards in the bankmachines and it would make a
bunch of noise and print thereceipt.
And then when you couldn't getparts for the bank machines,
then you did everything by hand.
So you would write all thisinformation on two cards and a
receipt, and it it's a lot ofwork by hand.
SPEAKER_01 (12:22):
I I I wasn't ever a part of it, but I do know a lot
of people who have gone throughit, and it it makes you
appreciate what you have now.
SPEAKER_00 (12:29):
And you counted your inventory every day, so you had
a running, if you rented one TVand received in two, then you
had to come up with that number.
And uh it was it was a lot ofpaperwork.
SPEAKER_01 (12:42):
So what so then my next question is when did you
receive or when did you startelectronically doing your
operations?
So when was the first point ofsale system that you had?
SPEAKER_00 (12:53):
Uh we started out with the accounting sits uh uh
first with a big machine.
Uh it took up half of a room,but a big computer and it had
big discs and it was on DOS andit made all those noises and
stuff.
That's what we started out on.
And then uh it's probably 10years later, we researched and
(13:16):
come up with a a gentleman uhthat had cash.
That was the name of hiscompany, and we rearranged it to
take care of our inventory.
We still kept a differentaccounting system, but at least
took care of our inventory.
SPEAKER_01 (13:32):
So you had two different systems?
SPEAKER_00 (13:34):
Oh, that's something we've had two systems mostly all
the time.
I think I think Aaron's on onenow, but uh we've had two
accounting system and the othersystem for years.
SPEAKER_01 (13:46):
What system do you use now?
SPEAKER_00 (13:47):
Uh we're in VersaRent for accounting, and uh
Red Ring Red Wing is ouraccounting system.
SPEAKER_01 (13:55):
Red Wing, okay.
So what was after after you getset up, how long was it before
you got the computer system?
You said about 10 years, but wasthat from 10 years from 86?
Or like was it 96 when we gotthe computer system or early
early?
SPEAKER_00 (14:09):
Oh 96, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, we had three threeor four stores before we got the
computer system.
And the stores all come to thecorporate office and sit down
there, and and they had done thecomputers and they had them all
in line and they had theirtraining system training for two
days and took them back to thestore and plugged them in.
SPEAKER_01 (14:32):
Did that switch over to this new system really help
fuel kind of I wouldn't saygrowth, but the way business did
it help your business get alonga little easier to grow?
SPEAKER_00 (14:43):
Yes, because there was less uh paperwork, less hand
paperwork, so it gave them moretime to do other things.
SPEAKER_01 (14:50):
Get on the floor itself.
SPEAKER_00 (14:51):
Yeah.
So no one would absolutelyunderstand doing it the
paperwork way.
It was it was some tedious.
SPEAKER_01 (15:00):
Yeah.
Tedious.
So, like back in let's say late80s, going on to early 90s, was
there something that kind ofcame in that really changed
fundamentally the way so you hadthe core products?
Was there something else thatkind of came in during those
time frames?
When did you guys start doinglike maybe computers or
(15:20):
something different?
SPEAKER_00 (15:22):
We did start computers for a while after
that.
I think the V the VCR was ourmain thing because in my years
of purchasing, that was alwaysmy tagline is I want to find the
next VCR.
Because we rented VCRs for the athree-day weekend or rent to own
or as fast as we could rent thembecause it was the only way of
(15:46):
people getting entertainment.
We even had the tapes and youknow, the pit tapes that they
could rent.
So they could rent a VCR andfive tapes for three days.
SPEAKER_01 (15:57):
Wow, good.
That's that's a pretty niceidea.
So when did you start becomingan advocate with APRO?
SPEAKER_00 (16:04):
Uh we've been APRO like 27 years.
SPEAKER_01 (16:09):
So that's what that is right at the late 80s, right?
SPEAKER_00 (16:13):
Yeah.
Mar um Mark Conn has kept us uhaway from everything.
He thought he could doeverything better.
And same way with the TRIBorganization, which I was the
main TRI advocate, but uh thenhe started getting in, he
started going to DC.
In fact, he had gone to everysingle DC uh uh convention there
(16:36):
was in DC until he got sick.
So when he stick when he gotinto APRO, he both feet.
SPEAKER_01 (16:44):
Both feet?
SPEAKER_00 (16:45):
Yeah.
And he ended up uh was on theboard for like four years and
and was a second vice president,I believe.
SPEAKER_01 (16:52):
As you're going through all of this, you were
creating a new business.
We're starting it up, we'reputting furniture in, we're
putting appliances, we're kindof growing.
Was there any hurdles duringthat time that you had to
overcome, being that rent to ownwasn't as solid as it is now,
maybe not as well known?
Some hurdles that that cameacross back then that you had to
overcome?
SPEAKER_00 (17:11):
A lot of people didn't understand it and they
didn't think that we everybodythought we were cheating them,
so you have to sit down andexplain it to them to them.
Our biggest hurdle was 20 yearsago.
Uh, we had built a very largecorporate office and warehouse.
We brought everything into thewarehouse and the new product,
(17:31):
and we also serviced all of ourown product, and it caught on
fire a day before our manager'smeeting.
SPEAKER_01 (17:38):
Oh no.
SPEAKER_00 (17:39):
So the warehouse was full of those of$2,500 big
screen TVs and$2,000 computers.
I mean, absolutely full of them.
And if it had happened 24 hourslater, we'd have been okay.
But uh we got hit pretty hard onthat.
But if it wouldn't have been forthe vendors, we wouldn't have
made it.
SPEAKER_01 (17:59):
How did how did that happen?
SPEAKER_00 (18:01):
Because I had multiple vendors call me and two
of them had a plan.
I didn't even have to ask.
They had a plan what they wasgonna do.
Uh Whirlpool was one of them.
Brian Duke, he called me and umsaid, I will deliver six pieces
to each store that you want, andI will go ahead and give you all
(18:25):
your discounts and all yourwarehouse pricing.
unknown (18:27):
Wow.
SPEAKER_00 (18:28):
And 90 days, I think.
And then uh one of the furnitureguys came in, heard about it,
and come in because I I was onevery television station in the
state of Missouri that was a 13alarm fire.
And he heard about it, and hewas there within two days with a
notebook for me and a new pricelist and everything.
(18:50):
And he did the same thing.
He would deliver six sets to astore and still give me
truckload pricing.
SPEAKER_01 (18:57):
Wow.
SPEAKER_00 (18:58):
And then we had Welton, and they gave us 90-day
pricing, and they and they didask, is it safe?
And Mark says, Of course it'ssafe.
Your money's safe.
So it was the vendors that gotus through.
And we rebuilt and we're stillin that that building today.
SPEAKER_01 (19:17):
Do you know what happened?
Like what started it?
It was electrical.
Usually those that are theunseen until it's a little bit
kind of too late, you know.
SPEAKER_00 (19:25):
Of course, they tried to the insurance company
went to court or librigations orwhatever, trying to get out of
it.
But then they brought me on touh testify, and I testified for
the the electrician, not againsthim.
So I wasn't in there very long.
SPEAKER_01 (19:48):
So back then, now that we're doing advocacy, we're
kind of running on allcylinders.
Joining APRO.
What were some of the thingslike back then that we had to
kind of break through?
Was there anything that kind ofcame up on your radar as far as
Missouri and as far as yourbusiness that came up that it
was a great idea to be a part ofApril and to tackle this in
(20:11):
Missouri and with the businessthat you have?
SPEAKER_00 (20:13):
Mark was instrumental in IRS attacked us,
uh, attacked everyone, uh,wanting us to go to three-year
makers instead of 18-monthmakers.
So uh Mark went to DC and talkedto his representative and was
sitting on the corner of hisdesk and smoking a cigarette
(20:35):
with him when there's nosmoking.
No, right.
But uh he was he was the maincomponent in getting us our 18
makers back, which would havechanged the our world.
SPEAKER_01 (20:48):
Congressman Mel Hancock.
SPEAKER_00 (20:50):
He was a hero.
Mark was a hero, and so so wasthe congressman.
Um, but he was from Missouri andhe Mark had met him two or three
times in one of the owner'soffice in Lebanon that was an
insurance salesman.
SPEAKER_01 (21:04):
Was there anybody or any maybe a couple or two or
three people that kind ofmentored you and Mark at that
particular point in time whenyour business is start really
starting to come up and startingto grow?
And you know, whether it be, youknow, hey, keep your money and
kind of work from from where youcan to going forward, or this is
how you rent, or was was thereanybody, any mentors, or even
(21:26):
along the way?
SPEAKER_00 (21:27):
Mark was his own mentor.
He was bigger than life, and hedidn't believe in OPM, he didn't
believe in using the bank'smoney or other people's money.
We paid off everything as soonas we could, and that's why we
were debt-free.
SPEAKER_01 (21:44):
That's amazing in itself, because that's not
usually how it is right now, andthat's for sure.
SPEAKER_00 (21:49):
Now we have shopping centers and and re model stores
and stuff, but that's because hebelieved in paying the bills
first.
Uh so he was he he's the onethat spoke up in all the
meetings and he had his ownopinion, his own opinion of of
the credit rating and stuff, andhe was very boisterous about it.
SPEAKER_01 (22:12):
Uh when you say credit rating, what do you mean
by that?
SPEAKER_00 (22:17):
Um, I s maybe I said that wrong.
Uh closing credit.
SPEAKER_01 (22:20):
Oh okay.
I understand.
SPEAKER_00 (22:22):
Okay, he's famous for having 2% RSNS, which is red
tag, stitch, skips, and stones.
SPEAKER_01 (22:29):
If there's anything that Aaron has said to me that
has shocked me over the years,is like the consistency of low
collections.
Always.
I I think that we have talkedabout this amongst other people.
Uh, I remember he even had uhone of the the breakouts that he
did a couple, I think it was acouple years ago, was um run
credit like my daddy.
Did you remember that?
Yep, and he and he said somestuff.
(22:50):
And now it's like I've neverheard of those numbers on a
consistent basis, let alone overthe entire year.
I mean, I was just once a year.
Yeah, once a year.
And I was like, we do that oncea month.
Maybe it would probably be likeevery week that something would
be rolling.
Like we'd be happy if we had acouple of just in a month.
We'd have, yeah, you know, it'sa celebration.
(23:10):
He's like, Yeah, we do that oncea year.
And I was like, oh my God.
You know.
So you what you're saying isyour husband kind of spearheaded
that.
SPEAKER_00 (23:18):
Yes, yes.
And because he he believed that,you know, this is I give you a
good TV and you give me a badcheck.
No.
And if you couldn't pay your$20this week, how was you gonna pay
$40 next week?
But he's that was very kind andbrought it back and marked it.
(23:38):
And if you come back next week,then you got all your credit and
everything was fine.
It was just an education that wewasn't trying to pick up your
unit when you had five paymentsleft.
It was never like that.
It was trying to increase youruh in increase your credit.
And as Mark said when one of hisfamous sayings was uh if it
(24:01):
wasn't for us, they'd be sittingon the floor watching the wall.
And I was always impressed thatI mean we didn't have a lot of
nice stuff personally because wewas putting it on the business.
But when we did start to to havebut built a house and things,
our clients still had betterproduct than we did because they
(24:25):
got it brand new.
You know, they got a 42-inch andwe're still watching a 32, but
that's okay.
SPEAKER_01 (24:32):
I mean, the innovation, I I think that's one
thing that I always creditrent-to-own with is the
innovation to be able to look ata situation and figure out how
to work your way through that.
And with all the legends thatI've been able, I've been
blessed to be able to talk to,everybody had a different way to
do it.
Everyone, you know, the theproblem was the same, but we've
(24:52):
shown five, six, seven differentapproaches that were extremely
successful, but with the ideathat it's going to work.
Not it might work, it's going towork.
And how do we make that happen?
Um, and it's so important forthat, right?
It's so important to make surethat that pushes and we stay
(25:13):
pushing on that.
SPEAKER_00 (25:14):
We're on our third generation of customers.
You know, you know, they it'sit's cool, but you treat them
like people, you treat them, youknow, you respect them, you know
their names, you know the kids'names, if they're in football,
whatever.
I don't really want to brag, butwe have paid a lot of funeral
(25:39):
bills and stuff anonymously, youknow, it's just you do what you
can to help people.
I have uh Operation Fresh Start,which uh is all of our furniture
that, you know, maybe has a tearin it that we've repaired that
doesn't look real good, ordining room set that has three
chairs instead of four.
Well, we bring it all back intothe warehouse, and then uh
(26:02):
battered women that are startingall over again with three kids
and no education, and we'll fillup their apartment, whatever
they need.
Wow.
Um, and also if you have a fire,you you go and get what from
what you can from your familyand stuff, and when you get an
apartment or house and you stillneed this or that or something
(26:24):
else, then we'll just give it toyou.
We s we support uh Project 360,which is teenage kids that are
couch surfing and don't have areal address due to their
parents being silly or in jailor whatever.
And that stuff like that whenyou're just writing a check,
that's not anonymously.
But we really do supportchildren, the schools, uh food
(26:50):
banks.
I remembered one year that I Iraised personally over 10,000
pounds of food.
Oh, wow.
I went around and got the bestdeals I could to make my money
spread.
And we fed 700 families thatyear.
Wow.
And all of the people atcorporate were so excited when
(27:12):
you know we was unloading allthat food or went and get all
the got all that food.
But I just did what I did withthe furniture vendors.
I went and made a deal with themand told them what it was for
and got the best deal I could.
Maybe tweaked the menu a littlebit, you know, it made a bit
not.
SPEAKER_01 (27:31):
Right.
You gotta do what you gotta do.
SPEAKER_00 (27:32):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (27:32):
Right.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (27:33):
Instead of pumpkin pie, we had cakes and seven up.
If you mix a cake mix and aseven up together, you get a
cake.
SPEAKER_01 (27:39):
Okay.
So whatever whatever works.
Yeah.
So when did Aaron start kind ofjoining in and then learning and
and kind of got to where he isnow?
SPEAKER_00 (27:52):
Aaron started in when he was able to drive.
He was uh started in Lebanon,graduated from high school, went
to uh Warnsburg, he worked thereand as the account rep and would
finish his zero his route out.
In fact, the manager hatedSaturday mornings because
(28:12):
there'd be trucks lined up onSaturday morning to bring their
product back because theycouldn't afford it.
And uh then he went toMinnesota.
We bought a couple of stores inMinnesota or opened a couple
stores in Minnesota.
He went to Minnesota for acouple of years, and then he
came back as upper managementfor national.
(28:32):
And then Mark got sick probably10, 11 years ago, and it didn't
come out like it was supposedto.
So Mark did get a little bitbetter, but he decided he didn't
need to work 70 hours a week.
So Aaron took over his job,basically, and um Michelle took
(28:53):
over buying and the warehouseand stuff.
SPEAKER_01 (28:55):
So this is like 2014, 2015, so so to speak.
SPEAKER_00 (28:59):
And then Mark passed away in 20.
SPEAKER_01 (29:02):
I'm sorry about that.
SPEAKER_00 (29:04):
And then I may Aaron became president of national TV
about six months ago.
SPEAKER_01 (29:10):
So what made you decide he's ready?
SPEAKER_00 (29:14):
Because I I seen times have changed since I've
been on the front line, youknow, but he was taking better
care of his co his uh employees.
He wasn't having that manyissues.
I would listen to him and hewould handle it.
He's not his dad, but he's hestill is strong in his
convictions and believes in theproduct.
SPEAKER_01 (29:36):
He absolutely does.
SPEAKER_00 (29:38):
But uh the only thing he really well OPM, but
the other only but besides thecredit, he he has his own deal,
you know.
But the times have changed, youknow.
Employees have changed.
You can't, you know, we used tohave three-piece suits and it
whatever the bank wore, that'swhat we wore.
(29:58):
Well, now the banks are on bluejeans and polos, so our guys are
on polos.
Um there's visible expressionsthat are now can be visible when
Mark was around there that hewas old school, but he's changed
it.
He's he gives he had he's reallygood with the employees because
he gives them more time off andand uh changes their hours to to
(30:24):
fit their needs, and he wasready and he was doing the work
because I was doing the farm.
So about two years ago, I madehim executive vice president,
and then six months ago I madehim the president.
So, but I'm still the CEO andthe owner, but he is the
(30:45):
president, and he talks to meonce in a while, but other than
that, it's all him.
SPEAKER_01 (30:51):
It's good, it's good to go.
Yeah, I know he has a tight reinon things for sure.
SPEAKER_00 (30:54):
He does, he does.
SPEAKER_01 (30:55):
So, Kathy, what we've kind of talked about this
a little bit and we're probablykind of venturing off a little
bit here, but you have a lot ofventures outside of rent to own.
SPEAKER_00 (31:05):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (31:06):
So, so what what do you what do you do?
Not because we all know what youguys have going on here, but
what what's outside that you do?
Well, I didn't say outside, butwhat other businesses do you
have that are not rent to own inthe rent-town industry?
SPEAKER_00 (31:19):
Well, we've had businesses back and forth, but
Mark was raised on a dairy farmand he loved farming, but he
didn't want dairy cows.
So we started with one farm anda few cows, and I have two boys,
and the boys would do thechores, and Mark would do the
chores on the weekend orwhatever.
(31:40):
Um, but now and we had a bigcommercial herd that we would
raise and wean and sell, butsince he's passed, right before
he passed.
Past he had this vision ofeveryone eating the same quality
of beef that his family ate.
So he wanted to do farm totable.
(32:02):
So I have taken that, and thatis my passion.
Now I never thought I'd start inanother man business, but here I
am.
And we have farm to table.
We sell it directly.
They're born on the farm,they're raised on the farm,
non-GMO, and uh we raise most ofour prop, most of our feed, no
(32:23):
antibiotics, no uh growthhormones, just as clean as we
can get them.
We sell them to the consumer uhby the whole half or by the
piece.
We have a big walk-in.
No kidding.
And Michelle takes care of that.
So we have a lot of peoplethat'll text Michelle or
whatever, and the price is goingup, so they might come and buy
(32:45):
20 pounds of hamburger.
Or you've got uh men that are onthe carnivore diet, so they want
to know exactly when the newbeef comes in so they can get
the best choices first.
So I I'd have to, I'd have to,when I'm in Missouri, I'd have
to stop by you would because I'myou're not supposed to tell how
many cows or how many acres, butI I am very substantial in the
(33:09):
business.
SPEAKER_01 (33:09):
Good.
Good.
So, you know, you've mentionedit a couple times, so I don't
want to overlook it, but youhave said I have broken into a
business where it's maledominated, and I've got to kind
of show them that we are onequal level field.
SPEAKER_00 (33:25):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (33:27):
How has that affected?
How many times have you feltlike you've had to go in and
kind of show it's not, you know,it's not based on the sex, it's
based on the the mental capacityto get this done.
The the ability to work, howhard I work, you know, how hard
I am focused on what it is Ineed to do to get to the success
that I need to get to.
SPEAKER_00 (33:47):
Well, when I started buying product, oh, 35, 39,
probably 35 years ago, it was myjob to buy the product.
So Mark would go with me.
We go to Tupelo or Dallas, andthen we started with Tribb and
um um April, but we would go toshows or whatever, and we would
(34:09):
walk in and I would introducemyself, give them my card, and
start lifting up with thefurniture and stuff.
And they would say two words tome and then turn around and talk
to Mark.
And Mark say, I'm not the buyer.
So they'd say three words to meand turn around and talk to
Mark.
So that was very hard to bustthrough that.
(34:30):
But after they got to know me,that they knew that I knew what
I was doing, and I was very umparticular about the product
that I purchased, and I brokethrough that and ended up being
on the board of directors ofTRIB for 10 years, and I was
(34:52):
head of the furniture committeefor nine years.
In fact, I have been slated thequeen of of furniture because
that's a moniker.
Yeah, because I I would takenothing.
And if you wouldn't let me takeyour dust ruffle off the bottom
of your couch and let me seewhat's the guts was, I wasn't
interested.
(35:12):
You know, if you can't let mesee, I'm not gonna destroy it in
the middle of a showroom.
Right, absolutely.
But if you won't let me seewhat's in the guts and stuff,
and well, it matters.
SPEAKER_01 (35:22):
It matters, it matters because you have to have
a quality product that not onlyyou can sell but service when it
needs it.
SPEAKER_00 (35:28):
So my I did make a name for myself in the furniture
industry, so I don't have thatproblem anymore.
Uh I don't have a problem withany rent to own anymore because
I've spent 39 years at it, butnow I'm doing it again.
I do have a very good farmmanager, and he's very, you
(35:49):
know, interested, but still theylook at me and like, what do you
know about a cow?
Well, not much, but I sure canread and I'm learning it again.
SPEAKER_01 (35:58):
But you served on both boards though.
SPEAKER_00 (35:59):
No, Marks Marks served on A Pro.
SPEAKER_01 (36:02):
Mark served on both.
SPEAKER_00 (36:03):
Trib was me.
In fact, he he threatened tofire me probably two or three
times a week because he'd walkin my office and I'd be tr doing
trib work.
And he said, Trib don't pay you.
But I believed that the tribindustry had uh put faith in me,
and if they had a problem, Iwant to take care of it, whether
you had one store or a hundredstores.
(36:25):
I really believed in my job andin the furniture industry.
SPEAKER_01 (36:28):
Well, if you're talking about that long a
tenureship, you must have beendoing something right.
SPEAKER_00 (36:31):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (36:31):
So what made you decide to step away from that?
SPEAKER_00 (36:36):
We become empty nesters and we were supposed and
it it was just time for somebodyelse.
I thought I was going to stepaway and, you know, maybe work
four days a week or whateverthat didn't happen, but that was
the plan.
SPEAKER_01 (36:51):
It's it's always it's always like bittersweet,
you know?
You you spend all this timedoing something and you you
really learn to love it, butit's like it's time.
And most of the time when I saypeople coming off the board,
they just know it's just time.
SPEAKER_00 (37:03):
It was just time for me to come off the board.
Now, do I miss it?
Yes.
Could I write in my name for thetrib board or whatever, or ask
Marty Abel if I could join hisfurniture committee?
Yeah.
And they would probably enterit.
SPEAKER_01 (37:19):
But I'm sure.
I'm sure they would.
SPEAKER_00 (37:21):
Yeah, but no, it's time for me to do something
else.
SPEAKER_01 (37:23):
Let me ask you a question.
SPEAKER_00 (37:25):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (37:26):
You've you've you and your husband have served on
the boards, you've seengenerational, you've seen from
the late 80s to now at 2025.
What would you say is somethingthat you've seen that you you
would say there is concern oryou should watch out for this in
the coming future, based on theebbs and flows of what's been
(37:48):
going on, and say, you knowwhat, in the future, this is
probably something that shouldbe something that we should look
after, be concerned about, orjust keep an eye on.
SPEAKER_00 (37:57):
Well, you're gonna have to keep an eye on the
employees because they'redifferent generation and they're
making twice as much money, butthey're still doing about the
same work and they have adifferent mindset.
Uh and also this the tariffs,which we're not gonna get into
(38:18):
politics, but these tariffs arehitting our furniture pretty
hard and some of our other stuffpretty hard.
So it's gonna change thedemographics of what our clients
can afford.
They're gonna go back to basics,you know, because the food
prices are going so high, rentalprice uh rent house rents going
(38:38):
high, and they're not gonna beable to afford everything they
want anymore.
So you're gonna have to pay moreattention back to basic core
needs instead of some of thefancy stuff.
SPEAKER_01 (38:54):
Yeah, right.
I completely agree.
Was there ever a time in yourcareer spanning 39 years where
you know we've we we're gonnakind of mention it a little bit
again, but you you know, being afemale in the industry, you had
to make your mark.
Was there ever a time where itdidn't just benefit you to be
equal, but being who you wereactually benefited the
(39:17):
situation?
SPEAKER_00 (39:18):
A couple of times, yes.
SPEAKER_01 (39:21):
Is that for a different podcast?
SPEAKER_00 (39:23):
No, yeah, it's a different podcast.
Um I've scared some vendorsbefore when they would get me to
a place where I'm usually verycontrolled and start talking
soft and and deliberately, theyknow they're in trouble.
But I have pounded the tablebefore and stuff, and I always
(39:45):
act like a lady, I think.
But uh I have when I was upset,especially with the vendor, uh
they knew it.
SPEAKER_01 (39:55):
Just to remind them.
Yeah.
We we are definitely on levelplaying fields.
Forget who you're talking to.
SPEAKER_00 (40:01):
Do you know how much power I really had?
I didn't mean that.
SPEAKER_01 (40:05):
Do you really do you really know?
I love it.
What was what was probably adifficult time in the industry
that you remember that you cansay, you know what, I saw this
coming.
This was a this I wouldn't say ascare, but you know, it was on
the radar and it did kind ofchange the way we did things,
but we happened to manage to gothrough it and what it took to
(40:27):
get through it.
SPEAKER_00 (40:27):
Well, we've already spoken about it, but our
warehouse fire almost put usdown.
Um, it would have put mostpeople down, but uh we managed
to to get through it with thehelp of our vendors and and
things.
SPEAKER_01 (40:41):
I remember you did say something earlier in the
groom about the IRS.
SPEAKER_00 (40:45):
Oh, yes, the IRS.
Uh they were gonna put us onthree-year makers, which means
we had to to uh depreciate ourproduct for three years.
Well, back then most productpaid out in 18 months.
SPEAKER_01 (41:01):
So at the end of the turn.
SPEAKER_00 (41:05):
You would have to still be paying off stuff that
you're not getting money on.
SPEAKER_01 (41:08):
Correct.
SPEAKER_00 (41:08):
I mean, it would have completely changed the the
changed.
SPEAKER_01 (41:14):
You're talking about 18 months on three years, you
would have had a 50% book valueat the end of every single
agreement that full turned.
Oh gosh, that would have beenterrible.
SPEAKER_00 (41:22):
It was, and it was a very big deal, and it was just
funny, not funny, but um we justhad Mark had was old school.
SPEAKER_01 (41:31):
He just went down and told him exactly how it was
and um wasn't scared of anybody,and then but this was the time
that you guys went to the withApril the advocacy or whatever
to go to the Capitol and say itwas gonna this is not this is
not gonna be going to devastateus.
SPEAKER_00 (41:50):
Mark I didn't say wouldn't say single-handedly,
but he's the one that got themain champion on.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (41:57):
He led that charge.
It's I the tone I can keep ongetting from it, Mark, is he was
he was not a follower at all.
No, he was a leader or atrailblazer.
SPEAKER_00 (42:06):
Apro was scared to death he was gonna say something
wrong or you know, say a cussword, or you know, do something
else.
But that's how he took thething.
He didn't put on airs.
He just went in there and heknew the guy.
He was from our area, and hebelieved in us and he believed
in what we did and believed thatwe wasn't ripping off anybody.
SPEAKER_01 (42:29):
Absolutely.
And made it and made a huge lifeout of it.
SPEAKER_00 (42:32):
Yeah.
And it made it so everyone couldstill uh operate because it
would have been, it would havehit your bottom line so hard.
And I so many people would nothave made it.
SPEAKER_01 (42:43):
I know that you said earlier there was a huge
misconception about rent to ownand that you had to really kind
of go through the agreement andkind of discuss it and kind of
you know get people tounderstand where we are, where
we're going, what their role isin their agreement and what our
role is in that agreement.
Do you feel like that monikerstill happens today?
SPEAKER_00 (43:01):
It does.
SPEAKER_01 (43:01):
Do you feel like like it hasn't changed much or
has it changed?
SPEAKER_00 (43:04):
Oh, it's changed a lot, but we still have a shadow
over us.
Like if uh a middle class personuh loses a job or you know has
spent all doesn't have anysavings and the refrigerator
goes out, they really don't wanta rent-to-owned store coming
into their fancy neighborhood,delivered them a refrigerator.
(43:27):
So we still have a shadowsometimes.
But we also have gained therespect from a lot of people.
I have back when um Nintendos,back when Nintendos had first
come out, uh I was in a storeand I was for some reason I was
there by myself.
(43:48):
I don't know what, but I was bymyself, and this customer came
in and it had been a lifetimecustomer, and he wanted a
Nintendo.
I said, I'm sorry, I'm I don'thave any right now.
I said, but you can just go downto Walmart, you know, it's four
doors down and just buy one.
You've got a hundred dollarbill, that'll buy it.
He says, When I didn't have anymoney, National gave me what I
(44:12):
needed.
Now I'm going to have Nationalgive me what I want.
I left him in the store.
I walked down to Walmart withhis$100 bill, bought the
Nintendo, came back to thestore, wrote up the agreement,
and he still owed me$40.
SPEAKER_01 (44:30):
That's commitment.
SPEAKER_00 (44:31):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (44:31):
That's commitment.
But then that speaks to the wayyou've been able to do business
for the last 40 years.
SPEAKER_00 (44:36):
They come to us, and and now sometimes, you know,
like their tax return or theyhave money or what, they're
going to come to us first.
But the upper people, becauseour set is National TV sales and
rental, if we had to depend onour friends and family and stuff
to make a living sellingproduct, we wouldn't make it.
SPEAKER_01 (44:58):
Going into something like this, where we're doing
research, we're going back,we're talking to the legends,
we're kind of getting thestories from the beginning and
kind of moving forward.
What's some of the things let'slet's narrow it down.
What's something that you wouldsay you want to be remembered
for?
SPEAKER_00 (45:16):
I want to be remembered for my um what I did
for Trib.
I'm very proud of my furnitureand my furniture thing.
And I want to be remembered alsofor my giving and helping.
You can call me anytime, Ianswer any question because I
(45:38):
don't have any secrets as far asthat goes.
So I'm approachable and I'mgenerous, uh, whether it be what
uh the charitable convcharitable or something we're
doing at Trib or something in myhome town.
I just want to be remembered fora person that that you know took
(46:03):
family, work I'm sorry, God,family, and work in that order,
and I don't I do my best at allof them, and I want to be
remembered for being a niceperson.
SPEAKER_01 (46:18):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00 (46:19):
And the queen of queen and furniture.
SPEAKER_01 (46:22):
Going into the end of this, if you had some words
of advice, it's kind of hard.
I wouldn't say hard, but it'sdifferent for you because you
already have a successor.
But let's say somebody's comingto you and they say, Kathy, I'm
I'm I'm gonna open a store.
I believe in the rent homeindustry, I'm not as tenured as
you are, don't have asexperienced as you are.
(46:43):
If there was something that youcan give me, a bit of advice, a
word say statement that wouldkind of sum up what you think
would give me the most benefit,what would that be?
SPEAKER_00 (46:54):
Don't live beyond your means.
If you open up a store and youthink you're the manager and
you're the boss and you canstart taking two-week vacation
here and two-week vacation hereand getting off at noon, uh,
that's not that's not what anowner does.
If you want a successfulbusiness, you have to put in the
time.
Now with electronics now, likejust like uh Aaron doesn't have
(47:19):
to spend 70 hours a week behindhis desk, but he has to answer
his phone 70 hours a week.
And the ones that have taken thefancy trips and bought the fancy
cars and stuff, some of them 39years later still owe money.
And you know, they still theystill got you know six stores or
(47:41):
whatever.
And if they hit a speed bump,they don't have any back to do
it.
If I hit a speed bump, like uhthe epidemic, it yeah, we had to
change what we did.
We had to take payments throughthe door and couldn't deliver
stuff into houses, and weadapted, but it didn't put us
(48:06):
down.
You know, you what no one wasmade to come to work, but
someone always did, and you justopen up the door or they drop it
through and you give them areceipt.
We what I mean we just figuredout ways to make it happen.
And then the last hour of theday, then you uh cleaned
everything and and it's you justmake it happen.
SPEAKER_01 (48:28):
So I'm curious.
Again, coming to the end ofthis, I did want to ask one more
question.
SPEAKER_00 (48:33):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (48:34):
Are there any more store openings in the future?
Are we expanding?
SPEAKER_00 (48:40):
I'm sure we are.
I'm sure we are.
SPEAKER_01 (48:43):
We see growth.
SPEAKER_00 (48:44):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (48:44):
All right.
Well, that's good to hearbecause there's so much coming
on in the next few years thatit's just good to hear that
we're still, you know, we'restill thinking we have a future
out there, you know, regardlessof what's going on.
SPEAKER_00 (48:55):
And there's still areas.
Uh we have purchased many storeswhere we they come into one of
our towns and try to competeagainst us, and we end up buying
them and probably happen again.
SPEAKER_01 (49:12):
Well, that's what happens when you're debt-free
and you know how to run yourcompany.
SPEAKER_00 (49:15):
Yeah.
When your money's green and youknow, when an opportunity comes
up, whether it might just be aperfect place, you never know
when something opportunity isgoing to come up, whether it be
to purchase the building and puta story in it, or just rent the
building and put a story in it.
We have the personnel and themoney that we can take advantage
(49:41):
should something come up.
SPEAKER_01 (49:42):
That's where you want to be.
Kathy Windsor, everybody, we doappreciate that you stop by and
talk to us.
These legend discussions are soimportant to kind of get a
history.
That's what this season is allabout.
We are doing something withApro.
We are partnering together toget all this legend information
to you.
So we appreciate you guyslistening to the show.
Kathy, I appreciate you beinghere.
Guys, if you have any questions,please hit me up at the show.
(50:05):
It's Pete at the RTO ShowPodcast.com.
You can email me there.
You can hit us on the DMs forFacebook, Instagram, LinkedIn,
and now we got you on YouTube.
This is where you're going to beseeing this at.
If you have any questions,please see us on there.
Don't forget to go to thewebsite at the
rtoshowpodcast.com and get ashirt or something else.
And if you have any questionsfor Kathy, please feel free to
email me at me and I will I willpass it along.
(50:27):
And I'll answer.
And we'll throw them back on theon the on the on social media or
on the sites.
But we do appreciate you guyssticking with us today.
It's been really great to havethis conversation to kind of sit
down with you.
In case anybody doesn't know,it's my first time meeting
Kathy.
So I was just excited to kind ofhave that conversation and kind
of dig back deep into theWindsor's and how they got here.
So it's it's really exciting forme.
(50:47):
But I appreciate you being here.
And I will tell you guys asalways, thank you.
But get your collections low toget your sales high.
Have a great one.
Hey everybody, welcome to the RTO show.
I'm your host, Pete Choo, andtoday I'm with a different
legend who has been in thisbusiness for a very long time.
We're gonna see a different sideof things with Miss Kathy
Windsor.
And let me tell you, theirfamily is all over the area.
Now, your son, does he run thebusiness now?
SPEAKER_00 (01:22):
Yes, he is president.
SPEAKER_01 (01:23):
So Aaron runs the business.
Okay.
So if you guys know Aaron, he'sthe guy with the hat and he
comes around with the he's gotthat the manliest beard, I know.
Uh I love him.
He's a great guy.
So, Kathy, in your years thatyou've done this, this is a
family thing now.
SPEAKER_00 (01:38):
It is.
All right.
At one time we had 13 familymembers working there at one
time.
But now there's just three ofus.
But uh, and I'd I'm I have giventhe reins over to Aaron, and I'm
the CEO and the owner, but I'vekind of gone back to the farm
and have joined another men'sclub that I have to break
(02:00):
through.
SPEAKER_01 (02:01):
Well, you're not shy of that.
SPEAKER_00 (02:03):
No, I've done it before.
SPEAKER_01 (02:04):
The entire name of the business is National TV
Rental and Sales.
SPEAKER_00 (02:08):
National TV Sales and Rental.
SPEAKER_01 (02:09):
Sales and rentals.
Okay, I got it.
SPEAKER_00 (02:11):
Forget the name in the middle.
SPEAKER_01 (02:12):
I gotta get it right.
So when you guys started this,what year was that about?
SPEAKER_00 (02:18):
We started in Missouri.
This is our 39th anniversary.
So we started in Missouri in um84.
SPEAKER_01 (02:27):
So we've been in the business.
SPEAKER_00 (02:29):
Uh 40 about 44 years, but we don't count the
other ones because we sold thatcompany in Texas.
We started in Texas.
Uh I was uh corporate managerfor 7-Eleven.
Uh just had Aaron, and Mark justdidn't decide that he knew more
than a boss.
So he wasn't working at thetime.
(02:51):
He was drawing unemployment forthe first time.
So a gentleman from Lone Star TVkept calling him, wanting him to
come in, come in, come in, andMark would say, Today?
And he said, Yeah, today.
He says, Okay, and then Markwouldn't come in.
So about the fourth day, thisgentleman called him.
He said, I'll deal you a deal.
You either come in today andcome to work, or I'm gonna call
(03:11):
unemployment.
So Mark went in there, and uhthey couldn't believe they paid
him for this.
And they just handed him a bunchof cards that says the set or
the money, and he loved it.
And he got raises his first twoyears, and then about two years
later, we opened up across thestreet.
(03:32):
And the type of man Mark was, hewas still working out his um two
weeks' notice across the street,and I opened up our own business
on the other side.
Okay, so we were going againsteach other.
SPEAKER_01 (03:49):
Family competition.
SPEAKER_00 (03:50):
Yeah, but then um had another kit, had two more
kids, and Gal the Texas area wasa little rough.
So we moved back to Missouri andopened our own in '86.
SPEAKER_01 (04:04):
So we are talking about Mark Windsor.
SPEAKER_00 (04:06):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (04:07):
Okay.
So Mark Windsor is the patriarchof what started with you.
Yes.
And then funnels down to Aaron.
Are any of the other childreninvolved in this?
SPEAKER_00 (04:15):
Michelle, my youngest daughter, she does the
uh vehicles and she does uhkeeps part of some of the
checkbooks and stuff like that.
She's not involved in a lotbecause I pulled her away to
sell beef.
SPEAKER_01 (04:30):
So I mean, you've been in this business a long
time.
SPEAKER_00 (04:33):
I have.
SPEAKER_01 (04:34):
You and you, your husband, your family have done a
lot with this business, notincluding with Apro, but kind of
opening these businesses.
Where are the primary uhlocations of the store?
What state states do you?
It's Missouri.
They're all in Missouri.
Yes, they are.
So you start in '86 in Missouri.
What was it like starting backthen?
Because that like back then waslike the Wild West.
(04:55):
It wasn't like now where I cango to a buddy's and get a
franchise, or I can, you know,kind of start because I know
that the I know kind of like thecookie-cutter outfits of what we
already have done.
But back then there wasn'tnothing pre-listed.
It was kind of like, hey,everybody's kind of going to
everybody else and kind offiguring it all out.
How was it like starting in 86?
SPEAKER_00 (05:12):
There was no one in Missouri and financing was
unheard of.
And we ended up with uh askingMark's father and one of Mark's
father and a business anotherbusiness associate.
Mark's father said, no, no one'sgonna rent to own, no one's
gonna do that.
(05:32):
But the business partner said,Dick, if you don't do it, I
will.
So then we started the businesswith$30,000 cash and a hundred
and fifty thousand dollar creditline because we had these two
businessmen that signed off onus.
And we just just bought a littlebit of time and that's what we
did.
SPEAKER_01 (05:52):
That you know, you're not the first person to
say that, but you are a part ofa member of very few people who
would who did it that waybecause it's a lot harder.
It's a very caste-intensivebusiness up front when you're
trying to fill showrooms and dothat, such.
So going in with a with a withthat very, you know, set mindset
of we're gonna do it, you know,through the business and not
just take out loans and kind ofdo that.
(06:12):
And not that it is anythingwrong with that, but like how
did that set some kind of, youknow, did you get a couple speed
bumps because there wasn't a lotof monetary uh capital in the
background?
SPEAKER_00 (06:22):
Right, because when you're out, you're out.
SPEAKER_01 (06:23):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (06:24):
We didn't go and get more money or whatever.
We've got some dating later onwhen we'd made a name for
ourselves.
But uh we just had like afurniture salesman that used to
come around and had five or sixlines, and then we had a
distributor that had uhappliances and televisions, and
(06:44):
we just had the two to start,but we paid our bills on time
and they increased our creditlimit and it worked.
SPEAKER_01 (06:52):
So, who was the first company that you did
business with?
SPEAKER_00 (06:56):
Otco.
SPEAKER_01 (06:58):
I don't think I remember them.
SPEAKER_00 (07:00):
Uhco is the appliance, and we still do
business with them.
We still buy our ACs and thingsfrom them.
And then we FC Grace was whatthey used to call a ragman.
He would come around and seeyou, and he had a big satchel,
and he had all these swatchesand different companies and
stuff, and you would buy you hadto buy something from him
(07:20):
because he had so many lines,but that covered all of our
furniture and stuff.
SPEAKER_01 (07:25):
So when he came in with with rent owned being new,
did he just come in and say,Okay, I'm gonna we're we're
gonna go ahead and open thatline, or was there some
trepidation there, kind of like,hey, I you gotta explain to me,
what are we doing?
Yeah, he he uh liked me and anddid that that helped did that
(07:46):
help get it over, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (07:47):
He liked me because he would come in and Tehek was
sitting on my desk.
I just get on the floor andstart playing with you know the
swatches and the and thedifferent pieces of furniture.
And he felt that we were goodChristian people and he believed
in it.
So we started with all of hislines and paid our bills and it
(08:10):
increased from there.
SPEAKER_01 (08:11):
When you did the furniture, if you remember, like
was there a huge selection atthat point in time?
unknown (08:17):
No, there wasn't.
SPEAKER_01 (08:18):
What what kind of what kind of selection did you
have back then?
SPEAKER_00 (08:20):
Like for living room furniture, we only bought from
one per one person, and I wouldbuy, they probably had three
SKUs that I liked because I wasvery uh picky about what I uh
brought into the store.
It had to last, it had to passpast my test.
And um, so I would just getthose three model numbers and I
(08:44):
would put like two fabrics oneach of the styles, so I'd have
a full truck.
SPEAKER_01 (08:50):
Okay.
So so it was basically like onemodel with different colors on
it.
SPEAKER_00 (08:54):
Three models for different colors on it.
Three different colors.
SPEAKER_01 (08:57):
That's okay.
SPEAKER_00 (08:58):
And it all came from the same person.
SPEAKER_01 (09:00):
So then what appliances did you guys get?
Was it just a simple washer anddryer?
Was there a like a level,entry-level, middle level, high
level?
SPEAKER_00 (09:07):
Not the end.
Then it was just a washer anddryer and a 17-foot refrigerator
and a 21-foot side by side withno ice and water, and uh coil
stove.
SPEAKER_01 (09:20):
Those are like a staples.
I don't think coil stoves havegone anywhere.
And they kind of look a littlebit different, but they're all
about the same, right?
So we started in '86.
When was it that you kind ofstarted branching out into other
things besides those main coreitems?
SPEAKER_00 (09:31):
First we got it making a profit, Lebanon making
a profit.
When it started making a profit,then we opened up another store
in Clinton.
So that took up all of our uhline of credit again.
And then they would have sales,and then you would just bring in
or try something.
Uh the VCRs became a little bitmore affordable and with a
(09:56):
wireless remote instead of awired remote, so you just added
to it.
Uh, we started out in Texas, weonly had a 19-inch TV and a
25-inch console, and that's allyou had.
And you didn't get to pick itout.
Depending on your app, we gaveyou a television equal to your
app.
So if it your application didn'tpan out, no one answered the
(10:19):
phone, then you got a used oneout of the back.
Now, when you paid that off,then I'd give you a brand new
one.
SPEAKER_01 (10:24):
Understood.
SPEAKER_00 (10:25):
We was the only deal in town, or one of the only
deals, because rent home startedin Texas.
So it was either us or nobody.
SPEAKER_01 (10:36):
So, how did you develop when you start 86?
You have a couple of simplelineup core items.
Where did you get theinformation, or how did you set
up like the application processor the rental order process and
the agreements at that point intime?
SPEAKER_00 (11:40):
Okay, we took had our agreements and our
applications from Texas, tookthem to the local lawyer, and
followed all the 10-point andfollowed all the rules and
regulations.
Uh, there wasn't that muchchange from Missouri.
We didn't have computers, we didhave the big bank machines, so
(12:02):
you'd put the cards in the bankmachines and it would make a
bunch of noise and print thereceipt.
And then when you couldn't getparts for the bank machines,
then you did everything by hand.
So you would write all thisinformation on two cards and a
receipt, and it it's a lot ofwork by hand.
SPEAKER_01 (12:22):
I I I wasn't ever a part of it, but I do know a lot
of people who have gone throughit, and it it makes you
appreciate what you have now.
SPEAKER_00 (12:29):
And you counted your inventory every day, so you had
a running, if you rented one TVand received in two, then you
had to come up with that number.
And uh it was it was a lot ofpaperwork.
SPEAKER_01 (12:42):
So what so then my next question is when did you
receive or when did you startelectronically doing your
operations?
So when was the first point ofsale system that you had?
SPEAKER_00 (12:53):
Uh we started out with the accounting sits uh uh
first with a big machine.
Uh it took up half of a room,but a big computer and it had
big discs and it was on DOS andit made all those noises and
stuff.
That's what we started out on.
And then uh it's probably 10years later, we researched and
(13:16):
come up with a a gentleman uhthat had cash.
That was the name of hiscompany, and we rearranged it to
take care of our inventory.
We still kept a differentaccounting system, but at least
took care of our inventory.
SPEAKER_01 (13:32):
So you had two different systems?
SPEAKER_00 (13:34):
Oh, that's something we've had two systems mostly all
the time.
I think I think Aaron's on onenow, but uh we've had two
accounting system and the othersystem for years.
SPEAKER_01 (13:46):
What system do you use now?
SPEAKER_00 (13:47):
Uh we're in VersaRent for accounting, and uh
Red Ring Red Wing is ouraccounting system.
SPEAKER_01 (13:55):
Red Wing, okay.
So what was after after you getset up, how long was it before
you got the computer system?
You said about 10 years, but wasthat from 10 years from 86?
Or like was it 96 when we gotthe computer system or early
early?
SPEAKER_00 (14:09):
Oh 96, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, we had three threeor four stores before we got the
computer system.
And the stores all come to thecorporate office and sit down
there, and and they had done thecomputers and they had them all
in line and they had theirtraining system training for two
days and took them back to thestore and plugged them in.
SPEAKER_01 (14:32):
Did that switch over to this new system really help
fuel kind of I wouldn't saygrowth, but the way business did
it help your business get alonga little easier to grow?
SPEAKER_00 (14:43):
Yes, because there was less uh paperwork, less hand
paperwork, so it gave them moretime to do other things.
SPEAKER_01 (14:50):
Get on the floor itself.
SPEAKER_00 (14:51):
Yeah.
So no one would absolutelyunderstand doing it the
paperwork way.
It was it was some tedious.
SPEAKER_01 (15:00):
Yeah.
Tedious.
So, like back in let's say late80s, going on to early 90s, was
there something that kind ofcame in that really changed
fundamentally the way so you hadthe core products?
Was there something else thatkind of came in during those
time frames?
When did you guys start doinglike maybe computers or
(15:20):
something different?
SPEAKER_00 (15:22):
We did start computers for a while after
that.
I think the V the VCR was ourmain thing because in my years
of purchasing, that was alwaysmy tagline is I want to find the
next VCR.
Because we rented VCRs for the athree-day weekend or rent to own
or as fast as we could rent thembecause it was the only way of
(15:46):
people getting entertainment.
We even had the tapes and youknow, the pit tapes that they
could rent.
So they could rent a VCR andfive tapes for three days.
SPEAKER_01 (15:57):
Wow, good.
That's that's a pretty niceidea.
So when did you start becomingan advocate with APRO?
SPEAKER_00 (16:04):
Uh we've been APRO like 27 years.
SPEAKER_01 (16:09):
So that's what that is right at the late 80s, right?
SPEAKER_00 (16:13):
Yeah.
Mar um Mark Conn has kept us uhaway from everything.
He thought he could doeverything better.
And same way with the TRIBorganization, which I was the
main TRI advocate, but uh thenhe started getting in, he
started going to DC.
In fact, he had gone to everysingle DC uh uh convention there
(16:36):
was in DC until he got sick.
So when he stick when he gotinto APRO, he both feet.
SPEAKER_01 (16:44):
Both feet?
SPEAKER_00 (16:45):
Yeah.
And he ended up uh was on theboard for like four years and
and was a second vice president,I believe.
SPEAKER_01 (16:52):
As you're going through all of this, you were
creating a new business.
We're starting it up, we'reputting furniture in, we're
putting appliances, we're kindof growing.
Was there any hurdles duringthat time that you had to
overcome, being that rent to ownwasn't as solid as it is now,
maybe not as well known?
Some hurdles that that cameacross back then that you had to
overcome?
SPEAKER_00 (17:11):
A lot of people didn't understand it and they
didn't think that we everybodythought we were cheating them,
so you have to sit down andexplain it to them to them.
Our biggest hurdle was 20 yearsago.
Uh, we had built a very largecorporate office and warehouse.
We brought everything into thewarehouse and the new product,
(17:31):
and we also serviced all of ourown product, and it caught on
fire a day before our manager'smeeting.
SPEAKER_01 (17:38):
Oh no.
SPEAKER_00 (17:39):
So the warehouse was full of those of$2,500 big
screen TVs and$2,000 computers.
I mean, absolutely full of them.
And if it had happened 24 hourslater, we'd have been okay.
But uh we got hit pretty hard onthat.
But if it wouldn't have been forthe vendors, we wouldn't have
made it.
SPEAKER_01 (17:59):
How did how did that happen?
SPEAKER_00 (18:01):
Because I had multiple vendors call me and two
of them had a plan.
I didn't even have to ask.
They had a plan what they wasgonna do.
Uh Whirlpool was one of them.
Brian Duke, he called me and umsaid, I will deliver six pieces
to each store that you want, andI will go ahead and give you all
(18:25):
your discounts and all yourwarehouse pricing.
unknown (18:27):
Wow.
SPEAKER_00 (18:28):
And 90 days, I think.
And then uh one of the furnitureguys came in, heard about it,
and come in because I I was onevery television station in the
state of Missouri that was a 13alarm fire.
And he heard about it, and hewas there within two days with a
notebook for me and a new pricelist and everything.
(18:50):
And he did the same thing.
He would deliver six sets to astore and still give me
truckload pricing.
SPEAKER_01 (18:57):
Wow.
SPEAKER_00 (18:58):
And then we had Welton, and they gave us 90-day
pricing, and they and they didask, is it safe?
And Mark says, Of course it'ssafe.
Your money's safe.
So it was the vendors that gotus through.
And we rebuilt and we're stillin that that building today.
SPEAKER_01 (19:17):
Do you know what happened?
Like what started it?
It was electrical.
Usually those that are theunseen until it's a little bit
kind of too late, you know.
SPEAKER_00 (19:25):
Of course, they tried to the insurance company
went to court or librigations orwhatever, trying to get out of
it.
But then they brought me on touh testify, and I testified for
the the electrician, not againsthim.
So I wasn't in there very long.
SPEAKER_01 (19:48):
So back then, now that we're doing advocacy, we're
kind of running on allcylinders.
Joining APRO.
What were some of the thingslike back then that we had to
kind of break through?
Was there anything that kind ofcame up on your radar as far as
Missouri and as far as yourbusiness that came up that it
was a great idea to be a part ofApril and to tackle this in
(20:11):
Missouri and with the businessthat you have?
SPEAKER_00 (20:13):
Mark was instrumental in IRS attacked us,
uh, attacked everyone, uh,wanting us to go to three-year
makers instead of 18-monthmakers.
So uh Mark went to DC and talkedto his representative and was
sitting on the corner of hisdesk and smoking a cigarette
(20:35):
with him when there's nosmoking.
No, right.
But uh he was he was the maincomponent in getting us our 18
makers back, which would havechanged the our world.
SPEAKER_01 (20:48):
Congressman Mel Hancock.
SPEAKER_00 (20:50):
He was a hero.
Mark was a hero, and so so wasthe congressman.
Um, but he was from Missouri andhe Mark had met him two or three
times in one of the owner'soffice in Lebanon that was an
insurance salesman.
SPEAKER_01 (21:04):
Was there anybody or any maybe a couple or two or
three people that kind ofmentored you and Mark at that
particular point in time whenyour business is start really
starting to come up and startingto grow?
And you know, whether it be, youknow, hey, keep your money and
kind of work from from where youcan to going forward, or this is
how you rent, or was was thereanybody, any mentors, or even
(21:26):
along the way?
SPEAKER_00 (21:27):
Mark was his own mentor.
He was bigger than life, and hedidn't believe in OPM, he didn't
believe in using the bank'smoney or other people's money.
We paid off everything as soonas we could, and that's why we
were debt-free.
SPEAKER_01 (21:44):
That's amazing in itself, because that's not
usually how it is right now, andthat's for sure.
SPEAKER_00 (21:49):
Now we have shopping centers and and re model stores
and stuff, but that's because hebelieved in paying the bills
first.
Uh so he was he he's the onethat spoke up in all the
meetings and he had his ownopinion, his own opinion of of
the credit rating and stuff, andhe was very boisterous about it.
SPEAKER_01 (22:12):
Uh when you say credit rating, what do you mean
by that?
SPEAKER_00 (22:17):
Um, I s maybe I said that wrong.
Uh closing credit.
SPEAKER_01 (22:20):
Oh okay.
I understand.
SPEAKER_00 (22:22):
Okay, he's famous for having 2% RSNS, which is red
tag, stitch, skips, and stones.
SPEAKER_01 (22:29):
If there's anything that Aaron has said to me that
has shocked me over the years,is like the consistency of low
collections.
Always.
I I think that we have talkedabout this amongst other people.
Uh, I remember he even had uhone of the the breakouts that he
did a couple, I think it was acouple years ago, was um run
credit like my daddy.
Did you remember that?
Yep, and he and he said somestuff.
(22:50):
And now it's like I've neverheard of those numbers on a
consistent basis, let alone overthe entire year.
I mean, I was just once a year.
Yeah, once a year.
And I was like, we do that oncea month.
Maybe it would probably be likeevery week that something would
be rolling.
Like we'd be happy if we had acouple of just in a month.
We'd have, yeah, you know, it'sa celebration.
(23:10):
He's like, Yeah, we do that oncea year.
And I was like, oh my God.
You know.
So you what you're saying isyour husband kind of spearheaded
that.
SPEAKER_00 (23:18):
Yes, yes.
And because he he believed that,you know, this is I give you a
good TV and you give me a badcheck.
No.
And if you couldn't pay your$20this week, how was you gonna pay
$40 next week?
But he's that was very kind andbrought it back and marked it.
(23:38):
And if you come back next week,then you got all your credit and
everything was fine.
It was just an education that wewasn't trying to pick up your
unit when you had five paymentsleft.
It was never like that.
It was trying to increase youruh in increase your credit.
And as Mark said when one of hisfamous sayings was uh if it
(24:01):
wasn't for us, they'd be sittingon the floor watching the wall.
And I was always impressed thatI mean we didn't have a lot of
nice stuff personally because wewas putting it on the business.
But when we did start to to havebut built a house and things,
our clients still had betterproduct than we did because they
(24:25):
got it brand new.
You know, they got a 42-inch andwe're still watching a 32, but
that's okay.
SPEAKER_01 (24:32):
I mean, the innovation, I I think that's one
thing that I always creditrent-to-own with is the
innovation to be able to look ata situation and figure out how
to work your way through that.
And with all the legends thatI've been able, I've been
blessed to be able to talk to,everybody had a different way to
do it.
Everyone, you know, the theproblem was the same, but we've
(24:52):
shown five, six, seven differentapproaches that were extremely
successful, but with the ideathat it's going to work.
Not it might work, it's going towork.
And how do we make that happen?
Um, and it's so important forthat, right?
It's so important to make surethat that pushes and we stay
(25:13):
pushing on that.
SPEAKER_00 (25:14):
We're on our third generation of customers.
You know, you know, they it'sit's cool, but you treat them
like people, you treat them, youknow, you respect them, you know
their names, you know the kids'names, if they're in football,
whatever.
I don't really want to brag, butwe have paid a lot of funeral
(25:39):
bills and stuff anonymously, youknow, it's just you do what you
can to help people.
I have uh Operation Fresh Start,which uh is all of our furniture
that, you know, maybe has a tearin it that we've repaired that
doesn't look real good, ordining room set that has three
chairs instead of four.
Well, we bring it all back intothe warehouse, and then uh
(26:02):
battered women that are startingall over again with three kids
and no education, and we'll fillup their apartment, whatever
they need.
Wow.
Um, and also if you have a fire,you you go and get what from
what you can from your familyand stuff, and when you get an
apartment or house and you stillneed this or that or something
(26:24):
else, then we'll just give it toyou.
We s we support uh Project 360,which is teenage kids that are
couch surfing and don't have areal address due to their
parents being silly or in jailor whatever.
And that stuff like that whenyou're just writing a check,
that's not anonymously.
But we really do supportchildren, the schools, uh food
(26:50):
banks.
I remembered one year that I Iraised personally over 10,000
pounds of food.
Oh, wow.
I went around and got the bestdeals I could to make my money
spread.
And we fed 700 families thatyear.
Wow.
And all of the people atcorporate were so excited when
(27:12):
you know we was unloading allthat food or went and get all
the got all that food.
But I just did what I did withthe furniture vendors.
I went and made a deal with themand told them what it was for
and got the best deal I could.
Maybe tweaked the menu a littlebit, you know, it made a bit
not.
SPEAKER_01 (27:31):
Right.
You gotta do what you gotta do.
SPEAKER_00 (27:32):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (27:32):
Right.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (27:33):
Instead of pumpkin pie, we had cakes and seven up.
If you mix a cake mix and aseven up together, you get a
cake.
SPEAKER_01 (27:39):
Okay.
So whatever whatever works.
Yeah.
So when did Aaron start kind ofjoining in and then learning and
and kind of got to where he isnow?
SPEAKER_00 (27:52):
Aaron started in when he was able to drive.
He was uh started in Lebanon,graduated from high school, went
to uh Warnsburg, he worked thereand as the account rep and would
finish his zero his route out.
In fact, the manager hatedSaturday mornings because
(28:12):
there'd be trucks lined up onSaturday morning to bring their
product back because theycouldn't afford it.
And uh then he went toMinnesota.
We bought a couple of stores inMinnesota or opened a couple
stores in Minnesota.
He went to Minnesota for acouple of years, and then he
came back as upper managementfor national.
(28:32):
And then Mark got sick probably10, 11 years ago, and it didn't
come out like it was supposedto.
So Mark did get a little bitbetter, but he decided he didn't
need to work 70 hours a week.
So Aaron took over his job,basically, and um Michelle took
(28:53):
over buying and the warehouseand stuff.
SPEAKER_01 (28:55):
So this is like 2014, 2015, so so to speak.
SPEAKER_00 (28:59):
And then Mark passed away in 20.
SPEAKER_01 (29:02):
I'm sorry about that.
SPEAKER_00 (29:04):
And then I may Aaron became president of national TV
about six months ago.
SPEAKER_01 (29:10):
So what made you decide he's ready?
SPEAKER_00 (29:14):
Because I I seen times have changed since I've
been on the front line, youknow, but he was taking better
care of his co his uh employees.
He wasn't having that manyissues.
I would listen to him and hewould handle it.
He's not his dad, but he's hestill is strong in his
convictions and believes in theproduct.
SPEAKER_01 (29:36):
He absolutely does.
SPEAKER_00 (29:38):
But uh the only thing he really well OPM, but
the other only but besides thecredit, he he has his own deal,
you know.
But the times have changed, youknow.
Employees have changed.
You can't, you know, we used tohave three-piece suits and it
whatever the bank wore, that'swhat we wore.
(29:58):
Well, now the banks are on bluejeans and polos, so our guys are
on polos.
Um there's visible expressionsthat are now can be visible when
Mark was around there that hewas old school, but he's changed
it.
He's he gives he had he's reallygood with the employees because
he gives them more time off andand uh changes their hours to to
(30:24):
fit their needs, and he wasready and he was doing the work
because I was doing the farm.
So about two years ago, I madehim executive vice president,
and then six months ago I madehim the president.
So, but I'm still the CEO andthe owner, but he is the
(30:45):
president, and he talks to meonce in a while, but other than
that, it's all him.
SPEAKER_01 (30:51):
It's good, it's good to go.
Yeah, I know he has a tight reinon things for sure.
SPEAKER_00 (30:54):
He does, he does.
SPEAKER_01 (30:55):
So, Kathy, what we've kind of talked about this
a little bit and we're probablykind of venturing off a little
bit here, but you have a lot ofventures outside of rent to own.
SPEAKER_00 (31:05):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (31:06):
So, so what what do you what do you do?
Not because we all know what youguys have going on here, but
what what's outside that you do?
Well, I didn't say outside, butwhat other businesses do you
have that are not rent to own inthe rent-town industry?
SPEAKER_00 (31:19):
Well, we've had businesses back and forth, but
Mark was raised on a dairy farmand he loved farming, but he
didn't want dairy cows.
So we started with one farm anda few cows, and I have two boys,
and the boys would do thechores, and Mark would do the
chores on the weekend orwhatever.
(31:40):
Um, but now and we had a bigcommercial herd that we would
raise and wean and sell, butsince he's passed, right before
he passed.
Past he had this vision ofeveryone eating the same quality
of beef that his family ate.
So he wanted to do farm totable.
(32:02):
So I have taken that, and thatis my passion.
Now I never thought I'd start inanother man business, but here I
am.
And we have farm to table.
We sell it directly.
They're born on the farm,they're raised on the farm,
non-GMO, and uh we raise most ofour prop, most of our feed, no
(32:23):
antibiotics, no uh growthhormones, just as clean as we
can get them.
We sell them to the consumer uhby the whole half or by the
piece.
We have a big walk-in.
No kidding.
And Michelle takes care of that.
So we have a lot of peoplethat'll text Michelle or
whatever, and the price is goingup, so they might come and buy
(32:45):
20 pounds of hamburger.
Or you've got uh men that are onthe carnivore diet, so they want
to know exactly when the newbeef comes in so they can get
the best choices first.
So I I'd have to, I'd have to,when I'm in Missouri, I'd have
to stop by you would because I'myou're not supposed to tell how
many cows or how many acres, butI I am very substantial in the
(33:09):
business.
SPEAKER_01 (33:09):
Good.
Good.
So, you know, you've mentionedit a couple times, so I don't
want to overlook it, but youhave said I have broken into a
business where it's maledominated, and I've got to kind
of show them that we are onequal level field.
SPEAKER_00 (33:25):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (33:27):
How has that affected?
How many times have you feltlike you've had to go in and
kind of show it's not, you know,it's not based on the sex, it's
based on the the mental capacityto get this done.
The the ability to work, howhard I work, you know, how hard
I am focused on what it is Ineed to do to get to the success
that I need to get to.
SPEAKER_00 (33:47):
Well, when I started buying product, oh, 35, 39,
probably 35 years ago, it was myjob to buy the product.
So Mark would go with me.
We go to Tupelo or Dallas, andthen we started with Tribb and
um um April, but we would go toshows or whatever, and we would
(34:09):
walk in and I would introducemyself, give them my card, and
start lifting up with thefurniture and stuff.
And they would say two words tome and then turn around and talk
to Mark.
And Mark say, I'm not the buyer.
So they'd say three words to meand turn around and talk to
Mark.
So that was very hard to bustthrough that.
(34:30):
But after they got to know me,that they knew that I knew what
I was doing, and I was very umparticular about the product
that I purchased, and I brokethrough that and ended up being
on the board of directors ofTRIB for 10 years, and I was
(34:52):
head of the furniture committeefor nine years.
In fact, I have been slated thequeen of of furniture because
that's a moniker.
Yeah, because I I would takenothing.
And if you wouldn't let me takeyour dust ruffle off the bottom
of your couch and let me seewhat's the guts was, I wasn't
interested.
(35:12):
You know, if you can't let mesee, I'm not gonna destroy it in
the middle of a showroom.
Right, absolutely.
But if you won't let me seewhat's in the guts and stuff,
and well, it matters.
SPEAKER_01 (35:22):
It matters, it matters because you have to have
a quality product that not onlyyou can sell but service when it
needs it.
SPEAKER_00 (35:28):
So my I did make a name for myself in the furniture
industry, so I don't have thatproblem anymore.
Uh I don't have a problem withany rent to own anymore because
I've spent 39 years at it, butnow I'm doing it again.
I do have a very good farmmanager, and he's very, you
(35:49):
know, interested, but still theylook at me and like, what do you
know about a cow?
Well, not much, but I sure canread and I'm learning it again.
SPEAKER_01 (35:58):
But you served on both boards though.
SPEAKER_00 (35:59):
No, Marks Marks served on A Pro.
SPEAKER_01 (36:02):
Mark served on both.
SPEAKER_00 (36:03):
Trib was me.
In fact, he he threatened tofire me probably two or three
times a week because he'd walkin my office and I'd be tr doing
trib work.
And he said, Trib don't pay you.
But I believed that the tribindustry had uh put faith in me,
and if they had a problem, Iwant to take care of it, whether
you had one store or a hundredstores.
(36:25):
I really believed in my job andin the furniture industry.
SPEAKER_01 (36:28):
Well, if you're talking about that long a
tenureship, you must have beendoing something right.
SPEAKER_00 (36:31):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (36:31):
So what made you decide to step away from that?
SPEAKER_00 (36:36):
We become empty nesters and we were supposed and
it it was just time for somebodyelse.
I thought I was going to stepaway and, you know, maybe work
four days a week or whateverthat didn't happen, but that was
the plan.
SPEAKER_01 (36:51):
It's it's always it's always like bittersweet,
you know?
You you spend all this timedoing something and you you
really learn to love it, butit's like it's time.
And most of the time when I saypeople coming off the board,
they just know it's just time.
SPEAKER_00 (37:03):
It was just time for me to come off the board.
Now, do I miss it?
Yes.
Could I write in my name for thetrib board or whatever, or ask
Marty Abel if I could join hisfurniture committee?
Yeah.
And they would probably enterit.
SPEAKER_01 (37:19):
But I'm sure.
I'm sure they would.
SPEAKER_00 (37:21):
Yeah, but no, it's time for me to do something
else.
SPEAKER_01 (37:23):
Let me ask you a question.
SPEAKER_00 (37:25):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (37:26):
You've you've you and your husband have served on
the boards, you've seengenerational, you've seen from
the late 80s to now at 2025.
What would you say is somethingthat you've seen that you you
would say there is concern oryou should watch out for this in
the coming future, based on theebbs and flows of what's been
(37:48):
going on, and say, you knowwhat, in the future, this is
probably something that shouldbe something that we should look
after, be concerned about, orjust keep an eye on.
SPEAKER_00 (37:57):
Well, you're gonna have to keep an eye on the
employees because they'redifferent generation and they're
making twice as much money, butthey're still doing about the
same work and they have adifferent mindset.
Uh and also this the tariffs,which we're not gonna get into
(38:18):
politics, but these tariffs arehitting our furniture pretty
hard and some of our other stuffpretty hard.
So it's gonna change thedemographics of what our clients
can afford.
They're gonna go back to basics,you know, because the food
prices are going so high, rentalprice uh rent house rents going
(38:38):
high, and they're not gonna beable to afford everything they
want anymore.
So you're gonna have to pay moreattention back to basic core
needs instead of some of thefancy stuff.
SPEAKER_01 (38:54):
Yeah, right.
I completely agree.
Was there ever a time in yourcareer spanning 39 years where
you know we've we we're gonnakind of mention it a little bit
again, but you you know, being afemale in the industry, you had
to make your mark.
Was there ever a time where itdidn't just benefit you to be
equal, but being who you wereactually benefited the
(39:17):
situation?
SPEAKER_00 (39:18):
A couple of times, yes.
SPEAKER_01 (39:21):
Is that for a different podcast?
SPEAKER_00 (39:23):
No, yeah, it's a different podcast.
Um I've scared some vendorsbefore when they would get me to
a place where I'm usually verycontrolled and start talking
soft and and deliberately, theyknow they're in trouble.
But I have pounded the tablebefore and stuff, and I always
(39:45):
act like a lady, I think.
But uh I have when I was upset,especially with the vendor, uh
they knew it.
SPEAKER_01 (39:55):
Just to remind them.
Yeah.
We we are definitely on levelplaying fields.
Forget who you're talking to.
SPEAKER_00 (40:01):
Do you know how much power I really had?
I didn't mean that.
SPEAKER_01 (40:05):
Do you really do you really know?
I love it.
What was what was probably adifficult time in the industry
that you remember that you cansay, you know what, I saw this
coming.
This was a this I wouldn't say ascare, but you know, it was on
the radar and it did kind ofchange the way we did things,
but we happened to manage to gothrough it and what it took to
(40:27):
get through it.
SPEAKER_00 (40:27):
Well, we've already spoken about it, but our
warehouse fire almost put usdown.
Um, it would have put mostpeople down, but uh we managed
to to get through it with thehelp of our vendors and and
things.
SPEAKER_01 (40:41):
I remember you did say something earlier in the
groom about the IRS.
SPEAKER_00 (40:45):
Oh, yes, the IRS.
Uh they were gonna put us onthree-year makers, which means
we had to to uh depreciate ourproduct for three years.
Well, back then most productpaid out in 18 months.
SPEAKER_01 (41:01):
So at the end of the turn.
SPEAKER_00 (41:05):
You would have to still be paying off stuff that
you're not getting money on.
SPEAKER_01 (41:08):
Correct.
SPEAKER_00 (41:08):
I mean, it would have completely changed the the
changed.
SPEAKER_01 (41:14):
You're talking about 18 months on three years, you
would have had a 50% book valueat the end of every single
agreement that full turned.
Oh gosh, that would have beenterrible.
SPEAKER_00 (41:22):
It was, and it was a very big deal, and it was just
funny, not funny, but um we justhad Mark had was old school.
SPEAKER_01 (41:31):
He just went down and told him exactly how it was
and um wasn't scared of anybody,and then but this was the time
that you guys went to the withApril the advocacy or whatever
to go to the Capitol and say itwas gonna this is not this is
not gonna be going to devastateus.
SPEAKER_00 (41:50):
Mark I didn't say wouldn't say single-handedly,
but he's the one that got themain champion on.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (41:57):
He led that charge.
It's I the tone I can keep ongetting from it, Mark, is he was
he was not a follower at all.
No, he was a leader or atrailblazer.
SPEAKER_00 (42:06):
Apro was scared to death he was gonna say something
wrong or you know, say a cussword, or you know, do something
else.
But that's how he took thething.
He didn't put on airs.
He just went in there and heknew the guy.
He was from our area, and hebelieved in us and he believed
in what we did and believed thatwe wasn't ripping off anybody.
SPEAKER_01 (42:29):
Absolutely.
And made it and made a huge lifeout of it.
SPEAKER_00 (42:32):
Yeah.
And it made it so everyone couldstill uh operate because it
would have been, it would havehit your bottom line so hard.
And I so many people would nothave made it.
SPEAKER_01 (42:43):
I know that you said earlier there was a huge
misconception about rent to ownand that you had to really kind
of go through the agreement andkind of discuss it and kind of
you know get people tounderstand where we are, where
we're going, what their role isin their agreement and what our
role is in that agreement.
Do you feel like that monikerstill happens today?
SPEAKER_00 (43:01):
It does.
SPEAKER_01 (43:01):
Do you feel like like it hasn't changed much or
has it changed?
SPEAKER_00 (43:04):
Oh, it's changed a lot, but we still have a shadow
over us.
Like if uh a middle class personuh loses a job or you know has
spent all doesn't have anysavings and the refrigerator
goes out, they really don't wanta rent-to-owned store coming
into their fancy neighborhood,delivered them a refrigerator.
(43:27):
So we still have a shadowsometimes.
But we also have gained therespect from a lot of people.
I have back when um Nintendos,back when Nintendos had first
come out, uh I was in a storeand I was for some reason I was
there by myself.
(43:48):
I don't know what, but I was bymyself, and this customer came
in and it had been a lifetimecustomer, and he wanted a
Nintendo.
I said, I'm sorry, I'm I don'thave any right now.
I said, but you can just go downto Walmart, you know, it's four
doors down and just buy one.
You've got a hundred dollarbill, that'll buy it.
He says, When I didn't have anymoney, National gave me what I
(44:12):
needed.
Now I'm going to have Nationalgive me what I want.
I left him in the store.
I walked down to Walmart withhis$100 bill, bought the
Nintendo, came back to thestore, wrote up the agreement,
and he still owed me$40.
SPEAKER_01 (44:30):
That's commitment.
SPEAKER_00 (44:31):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (44:31):
That's commitment.
But then that speaks to the wayyou've been able to do business
for the last 40 years.
SPEAKER_00 (44:36):
They come to us, and and now sometimes, you know,
like their tax return or theyhave money or what, they're
going to come to us first.
But the upper people, becauseour set is National TV sales and
rental, if we had to depend onour friends and family and stuff
to make a living sellingproduct, we wouldn't make it.
SPEAKER_01 (44:58):
Going into something like this, where we're doing
research, we're going back,we're talking to the legends,
we're kind of getting thestories from the beginning and
kind of moving forward.
What's some of the things let'slet's narrow it down.
What's something that you wouldsay you want to be remembered
for?
SPEAKER_00 (45:16):
I want to be remembered for my um what I did
for Trib.
I'm very proud of my furnitureand my furniture thing.
And I want to be remembered alsofor my giving and helping.
You can call me anytime, Ianswer any question because I
(45:38):
don't have any secrets as far asthat goes.
So I'm approachable and I'mgenerous, uh, whether it be what
uh the charitable convcharitable or something we're
doing at Trib or something in myhome town.
I just want to be remembered fora person that that you know took
(46:03):
family, work I'm sorry, God,family, and work in that order,
and I don't I do my best at allof them, and I want to be
remembered for being a niceperson.
SPEAKER_01 (46:18):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00 (46:19):
And the queen of queen and furniture.
SPEAKER_01 (46:22):
Going into the end of this, if you had some words
of advice, it's kind of hard.
I wouldn't say hard, but it'sdifferent for you because you
already have a successor.
But let's say somebody's comingto you and they say, Kathy, I'm
I'm I'm gonna open a store.
I believe in the rent homeindustry, I'm not as tenured as
you are, don't have asexperienced as you are.
(46:43):
If there was something that youcan give me, a bit of advice, a
word say statement that wouldkind of sum up what you think
would give me the most benefit,what would that be?
SPEAKER_00 (46:54):
Don't live beyond your means.
If you open up a store and youthink you're the manager and
you're the boss and you canstart taking two-week vacation
here and two-week vacation hereand getting off at noon, uh,
that's not that's not what anowner does.
If you want a successfulbusiness, you have to put in the
time.
Now with electronics now, likejust like uh Aaron doesn't have
(47:19):
to spend 70 hours a week behindhis desk, but he has to answer
his phone 70 hours a week.
And the ones that have taken thefancy trips and bought the fancy
cars and stuff, some of them 39years later still owe money.
And you know, they still theystill got you know six stores or
(47:41):
whatever.
And if they hit a speed bump,they don't have any back to do
it.
If I hit a speed bump, like uhthe epidemic, it yeah, we had to
change what we did.
We had to take payments throughthe door and couldn't deliver
stuff into houses, and weadapted, but it didn't put us
(48:06):
down.
You know, you what no one wasmade to come to work, but
someone always did, and you justopen up the door or they drop it
through and you give them areceipt.
We what I mean we just figuredout ways to make it happen.
And then the last hour of theday, then you uh cleaned
everything and and it's you justmake it happen.
SPEAKER_01 (48:28):
So I'm curious.
Again, coming to the end ofthis, I did want to ask one more
question.
SPEAKER_00 (48:33):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (48:34):
Are there any more store openings in the future?
Are we expanding?
SPEAKER_00 (48:40):
I'm sure we are.
I'm sure we are.
SPEAKER_01 (48:43):
We see growth.
SPEAKER_00 (48:44):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (48:44):
All right.
Well, that's good to hearbecause there's so much coming
on in the next few years thatit's just good to hear that
we're still, you know, we'restill thinking we have a future
out there, you know, regardlessof what's going on.
SPEAKER_00 (48:55):
And there's still areas.
Uh we have purchased many storeswhere we they come into one of
our towns and try to competeagainst us, and we end up buying
them and probably happen again.
SPEAKER_01 (49:12):
Well, that's what happens when you're debt-free
and you know how to run yourcompany.
SPEAKER_00 (49:15):
Yeah.
When your money's green and youknow, when an opportunity comes
up, whether it might just be aperfect place, you never know
when something opportunity isgoing to come up, whether it be
to purchase the building and puta story in it, or just rent the
building and put a story in it.
We have the personnel and themoney that we can take advantage
(49:41):
should something come up.
SPEAKER_01 (49:42):
That's where you want to be.
Kathy Windsor, everybody, we doappreciate that you stop by and
talk to us.
These legend discussions are soimportant to kind of get a
history.
That's what this season is allabout.
We are doing something withApro.
We are partnering together toget all this legend information
to you.
So we appreciate you guyslistening to the show.
Kathy, I appreciate you beinghere.
Guys, if you have any questions,please hit me up at the show.
(50:05):
It's Pete at the RTO ShowPodcast.com.
You can email me there.
You can hit us on the DMs forFacebook, Instagram, LinkedIn,
and now we got you on YouTube.
This is where you're going to beseeing this at.
If you have any questions,please see us on there.
Don't forget to go to thewebsite at the
rtoshowpodcast.com and get ashirt or something else.
And if you have any questionsfor Kathy, please feel free to
email me at me and I will I willpass it along.
(50:27):
And I'll answer.
And we'll throw them back on theon the on the on social media or
on the sites.
But we do appreciate you guyssticking with us today.
It's been really great to havethis conversation to kind of sit
down with you.
In case anybody doesn't know,it's my first time meeting
Kathy.
So I was just excited to kind ofhave that conversation and kind
of dig back deep into theWindsor's and how they got here.
So it's it's really exciting forme.
(50:47):
But I appreciate you being here.
And I will tell you guys asalways, thank you.
But get your collections low toget your sales high.
Have a great one.
Popular Podcasts
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.