November 18, 2025 • 48 mins
A customer says, “I’ll never own the laundromat,” and everything changes. That moment turned rent-to-own from a product on a shelf into a service with purpose for Shannon and Cynthia Baber Strunk—two industry legends who built, defended, and evolved RTO over four decades. We trace their path from Firestone showrooms to 50 stores, the hard lessons of a tire-and-wheel experiment, and the surprise breakthrough of early cell phones, starting with bag phones in the 90s.
We open up about the years when regulation threatened the model and how advocacy became the strategy. Shannon and Cynthia helped shape state laws, led within APRO, and visited Washington more than twenty times to educate lawmakers on how the RTO transaction actually works and why constituents choose it. You’ll hear candid insights on the state-vs-federal balance, why complacency is dangerous, and what message resonates in today’s DC: clear explanation over alarm, customer outcomes over abstractions.
Behind the scenes, technology was the quiet multiplier. Moving from posting cards to modern software transformed reporting, policy decisions, and forecasting. That data discipline now powers their RNR Tire Express focus, where six-month same-as-cash and purchase options require both operational savvy and regulatory awareness. They also share the blueprint for succession done right: start your next leaders at the bottom, insist on real accountability, and set bold forecasts you actually believe your people can hit.
If you care about rent-to-own growth, small-market strategy, industry advocacy, or succession planning, this story is a masterclass in building something durable without losing the customer-first soul. Subscribe, share with a colleague who needs the spark, and leave a review with your biggest takeaway—what should RTO teach lawmakers next?
APRO
Association of Progressive Rental Organizations
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (01:09):
Hey everybody, welcome to the RTO Show podcast.
Today, we're going through ourLegends series, and thank God we
have a couple of Legends thistime.
Not just one.
We actually ended up with two.
And guys, I don't know if youknow who they are, but I'm glad
that they're here because if youhaven't heard, they've probably
done some stuff in the last 40years that has affected your RTO
(01:31):
experience, including mine.
I mean, you guys have done alot, not only with APRO, but the
businesses that you've run andthe peoples and the lives that
you've touched.
So, together with APRO, wewanted to have a conversation
with these guys and kind of picktheir brain and see exactly what
you guys have done and how didyou get here in that story, that
road that led us to exactlywhere we are today.
(01:51):
So, right now I'm sitting withShannon and Cynthia Baber
Strunk.
Now, I just found out, likeliterally a couple of minutes
ago, that both have achieved alifetime achievement awards.
Now, I might think about alifetime achievement award.
I think the dedication and thehard road that it takes to get
there because it's never easy,right?
Nobody gets a lifetimeachievement award just because
(02:11):
they showed up every year.
SPEAKER_02 (02:12):
It means old people.
SPEAKER_01 (02:14):
Well, you know, just the things that you go through
and how you learn, how yousucceed, how you how you do the
best with what you had at thatpoint in time.
And when they see thatachievement, they say, What, you
know what?
These people deserve to berecognized.
It just so happens that we havea husband and wife doing it,
right?
So tell me about yourself alittle bit.
So right now, uh of BabyrusTrunk Enterprises.
SPEAKER_02 (02:35):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (02:36):
So I'm seeing 40 plus year member in April, board
of directors between 99 and2007, so almost a 10-year
stretch there.
Um, president and then Aprilpresident for two years, and
then your president and been amore board member, and a 20-plus
allege con attendee.
Or is it trib?
SPEAKER_00 (02:57):
President of Trib.
SPEAKER_01 (02:58):
Okay, so what we want to do is you guys start
business.
What made you guys decide rentto own is where I wanted to go?
SPEAKER_02 (03:06):
Well, I I actually started different than Cynthia.
I was an employee hired by thecompany that we now own, Babers
Inc.
I came in as an account manager,started my way as an account
manager and built up through theranks.
Um, I when I started with thecompany, I was with the company
(03:26):
maybe two weeks and decided Iwasn't gonna stick around long.
That I wasn't gonna I wasn'tgonna be with the company long
at all.
Um I didn't understand theproduct.
I didn't understand what rentown was.
I I grew up in a very differentlife.
And so it wasn't until I goteducated about what rent own
really was that I began tounderstand the value.
(03:46):
I began to understand how goodthat product was and how many
people needed it, that I it ithad an appeal to me.
That changed.
You know, I went to a customer'shouse and I went to, I was an
account manager, started asaccount manager, and I went to
go pick up a washer and dryerfrom a lady I was account
manager, she wasn't paying onthe account and I couldn't get
her to pay on it.
And she looked me in the faceand she said, point blank, I'll
(04:08):
never own the laundromat.
You're not getting it.
And that that just shook mebecause I didn't understand.
I didn't view it that way.
I just thought it was a product.
I didn't realize that theservice of the RTO was actually
the product.
And so it changed the way Ilooked at the transaction,
changed the way that I looked atour customers, just the whole
process changed.
(04:28):
And I worked for that customerand she caught it back up and
everything.
It was fine.
But but I was out there to pickit up and it changed everything.
So once that process started andI understood the value of what
rent to own offered, then itstarted interesting me, and then
I started proceeded proceedingand I moved up the ranks.
SPEAKER_01 (04:46):
How did you get into it?
SPEAKER_00 (04:50):
Family.
SPEAKER_01 (04:51):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (04:52):
Um my late husband uh and his father opened our
first uh rent to own store inPascagoula, Mississippi.
And it was early on.
It happened because we hadFirestone stores, three of them,
and they were um do did well.
(05:15):
And then suddenly the economyreally dropped.
And we were uh not nearly wewere not doing nearly so well as
we had.
SPEAKER_01 (05:29):
When you when you say the economy, what what year
was was with this around?
SPEAKER_00 (05:32):
Uh between 2000 uh 1979 and and 80.
SPEAKER_02 (05:41):
But that was back when the Firestone store sold
appliances.
Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_01 (05:45):
I'm just thinking of tires.
SPEAKER_02 (05:46):
Right, right.
So they were selling appliances.
They had a whole full range ofstuff that they sold.
Oh so when the economy was goingsouth, they were suffering in
the Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (05:55):
All right, all right.
So I understand a little bitmore.
I was okay.
SPEAKER_00 (05:58):
And so we uh we had three, three, of course, that uh
we didn't know what to do with,and a friend uh suggested that
we look at went to own.
And we had never have heard ofit, and Mr.
Uh Baber, my father-in-law, uhsaid, we're gonna give it a try.
(06:19):
So we added appliances and uhtelevisions to our showroom of
the um Firstone stores, andthat's how we started.
And my mother-in-law uh askedhim one day, well, how's the new
business going?
And he said, I don't know, butwe're doing a lot of it.
SPEAKER_01 (06:44):
I actually really like that idea.
So you've had this ability to gothrough in different ways.
You started in the business, youkind of started a little bit
differently, the bumps andbruises in the road.
What were some of the earlychallenges?
Because you said that you knowyou weren't initially in rent to
own, but we kind of got there.
And it sounded like it was goingvery well.
(07:06):
There was a little bit ofunderstanding, um, a little bit
of an onboard process of going,oh, wait a minute, this works
differently than I expected.
What were some of the earlytrials and tribulations of that
time period that you guys had toface that was really like this
is almost a breaking moment herewhere we we really got to take a
look at what we're doing tocontinue on?
And and we're we're so when didyou start?
SPEAKER_02 (07:27):
I started in 1987, March of '97.
SPEAKER_01 (07:30):
So I'm 87.
So let's start with you then.
Because you're you're abouteight, eight years earlier.
Was there something at thatpoint in time that you said, you
know, hey, this was somethingthat we had to get through, or
something that your font yourfamily experienced that, you
know, if we don't make thatchange, like you said, you kind
of added um the TVs and and andthe other things.
When do you remember when thatwas?
SPEAKER_00 (07:50):
Uh, that was in uh 1980, the beginning of 1980.
And it was um it went well.
We grew quickly to 17went-to-owned stores.
Wow.
At that point, we we left, wedidn't leave, we they were still
(08:12):
opened, but we uh our emphasisbecame the um RTO stores.
We were doing very well.
I was not involved at all,except I I designed our first
logo, and I um what else did Ido?
(08:33):
Oh, I did policy and proceduremanagement.
SPEAKER_01 (08:36):
Well, that's the backbone.
That's the backbone of what wedo.
SPEAKER_00 (08:38):
And those were the only things I did because I was
a biology teacher.
Oh, okay.
And so I wasn't reallyinterested in all of this.
SPEAKER_01 (08:47):
Everything that we're doing here.
SPEAKER_00 (08:48):
And then my late husband was killed in an
airplane accident.
I'm sorry to hear that.
And so it thrust me into a lifethat I did not know anything
about.
SPEAKER_02 (09:02):
But I but she meant me.
SPEAKER_00 (09:03):
So I had I had been my late husband's uh assistant
um part you know, part-time, andit was it it was very hard.
But my late husband had told meto trust Shannon that he was a
(09:25):
good man.
SPEAKER_02 (09:26):
I didn't I don't think he meant marry me anyway.
There was some foresight, but hewasn't sure what it was.
SPEAKER_00 (09:33):
No.
And so uh he he did computerswell, and so he came back from
the area that he was managing toour home office on the Gulf
Coast, and we have had awonderful time together since
then in the rent-to-ownedindustry.
SPEAKER_01 (09:55):
So 87, you're coming in, you're kind of learning how
we do things, how the customersare, the interactions, how
important we might be to peoplewho just really don't understand
um life.
They're kind of getting throughit and they're like, I need
somebody to help me.
I don't have credit, I need toget these things taken care of,
and I need to make sure that Igo someplace.
Well, you know, help me out.
(10:15):
It's I get service, I getdelivery, I get all that
included.
What when did you go into themanagement side of it where you
started really kind of seeingthe industry from a different
point of view?
SPEAKER_02 (10:24):
Um, I was I was made a manager just three months
later.
Um, and moved up to Tuscaloosa,Alabama, moved up, moved away
from the Gulf Coast up to astore, became a store manager,
and then went through the ranksof, we called them, we didn't
call them district managers, wecalled them supervisors, moved
up through the ranks in thecompany.
SPEAKER_01 (10:42):
So, what were some of the earlier trials and
tribulations that youexperienced coming into this
business?
Because there is a there's atime frame, and I think we've
kind of done a lot to change it.
But earlier on, late 80s, early90s, there was a moniker kind of
over-rent to own, like, oh, youknow, we're kind of taking
advantage of a customer thatreally can't afford to not be
taken advantage.
(11:03):
They need these products, so ofcourse we go in and then we we
supplement with these products,but they they have this and they
have that.
Well, you're paying a little bitmore, and you know, there's all
these ideas.
Well, you know, you have theability to return it.
Well, they're trying to comeafter us.
What were some of the earlierthings that you came across?
You said, I really I gottachange this mindset of what's
going on.
SPEAKER_02 (11:23):
Those experiences in early 90s for me really is what
caused me to get very active inthe industry because I knew what
it was like, but I I hadcustomers and I knew the value
that it provided for thecustomers and the relationships
that we built, and I knew whatthe customers were doing.
I mean, so what my personalexperience was was so different
(11:45):
from what I was reading orhearing elsewhere.
And so I didn't like that.
And so, from my perspective, itwas an easy transition to get
involved because I wanted totell a different story.
SPEAKER_01 (11:57):
And so when did, and this might be a different time
frame, but when did you guys getinvolved with Apro?
Because you know, it's it's notonly the legal advocacy, but
it's a mouthpiece forrent-to-owned to say, we're
doing the right thing, not onlyby you, but by us, trying to
make sure that the regulationstays favorable, making sure
that we can take care of you theway we say we're gonna take care
(12:17):
of you, but not in a credittransaction, because honestly,
that is a whole nother ballgame.
That's a bag of worms that we'renot getting into.
We want to make sure that wetake care of our customer.
When did that advocacy start?
SPEAKER_02 (12:27):
Baber started when April, I mean, Baber started uh
April when April started.
So we were one of the one of theearly members of April.
So we've been on as soon as assoon as it was available to do.
My my experience with Apriloccurred in I'll I'll say in 89,
started in 87, it was probably89, when I went to Birmingham to
(12:49):
a industry meeting, and Ed Wynnwas leading the meeting.
He was it was a legislative, Imean it was a uh a legal
session, and that's when Ireally started.
First of all, I loved Ed Wynn.
He was awesome, and I reallyappreciated the message he was
giving in.
But but but at that time it wasa scare message.
You know, it was a worry aboutthe the industry and what
(13:11):
whether the industry was gonnaexist.
And so I really got involved.
That's what caused me to getinvolved in the industry, was Ed
Wynne.
SPEAKER_01 (13:18):
You know, it's funny.
I've done this is now our thirdLegends podcast, uh, aside from
the Ken Butler.
Everybody mentions Ed Wynne.
He he is a name that constantlycomes up.
I love talking to him.
Um, he's he is he's just nononsense.
He just he's he's so full ofinformation.
I mean, Edwin's like a walkingencyclopedia of rent-to-owned
(13:41):
legal matters.
Um, but everybody mentionsEdwin.
As a matter of fact, Wayland wasjust talking about that not that
long ago.
It was great to great to kind ofcatch up with him on that.
But what do you think thatBabers did?
What do you think that you guysdid that made the rent
rent-to-owned transactionthrough Babers successful?
What spin did you guys put onit?
That's, you know, this is ourclaim to the rent-to-owned
(14:04):
industry.
This is why we're successful,this is why our stores have been
able to prosper for all theseyears.
SPEAKER_02 (14:09):
We really concentrated on smaller markets
where they were underserved.
In some cases, they wereunderserved by anybody providing
products that we were not justrent-owned, but sales.
We specialized in the smallermarkets to take care of the
customers.
SPEAKER_00 (14:24):
And it was a needed business because it allowed
people to get product that theyhad never been able to get
before.
They just could not afford it.
Uh and with the the model thatwe were using, they could afford
(14:45):
it.
SPEAKER_01 (14:46):
So let me ask you guys a question from
recollection.
What was a product that youreally weren't sure was gonna
kind of take off, but you tookthe chance, you brought it in,
and realized this is the this isa next step in where we're
going.
SPEAKER_02 (15:01):
Cell phones.
Really?
Cell phones.
Okay.
You know, it was a risk.
It was a different, it wasn't,it had other services tied to
it.
So cell phones was probably, inmy memory, cell phones was
probably the first item that webrought into the business.
SPEAKER_00 (15:18):
Um that it was so new.
Yeah, cell phones were not uhsomething that had been a lot
around very long.
SPEAKER_02 (15:27):
We started with some actual bag phones.
SPEAKER_01 (15:31):
So, okay.
Now we're now we're talking.
When did you start that?
When around what time frame didyou bring those in and realize
we've got something here?
SPEAKER_00 (15:39):
I I don't know.
It had to be about 90s, late90s?
No, it had 92.
SPEAKER_01 (15:45):
Oh, early 90s.
SPEAKER_02 (15:46):
Yeah, it had to be 92, 93, 94, somewhere.
We we don't actually remember.
We remember the product.
That's okay.
And we remember the cycles thatwe went through, changing from
bag to real to to little toiPhone, you know, went went
through the whole gamut.
SPEAKER_01 (16:02):
Now, you were saying that was something that really
worked for us.
It kind of took off and took usto a whole different direction
that we didn't know before.
unknown (16:08):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (16:20):
Most were successful.
There were a few that wereweren't, but most were.
SPEAKER_02 (16:24):
Another product we tried, Cynthia and I uh took, we
she told you we started as aFirestone store.
And we still had Firestonestores operating, but over time
we closed them, changed andturned them into uh baby Baber
stores.
We had one Firestone left in thecompany, and Cynthia and I
bought that out of the companyand turned it into a
rent-to-owned tire and wheelcompany and uh called
(16:48):
RideWright.
And um, after we'd lost enoughsignificant money, we closed it.
But we are now RR franchisees.
SPEAKER_01 (16:56):
You know, I was just talking to uh to Adam Sutton,
who is I I love him to death.
Uh pulled his family dear, youknow, coming from Tampa, whether
it would be Slatten, whether itbe Larry, you know, and now
Adam, um, everything thatthey've done has just been an
amazing to watch RR kind of growfrom where it was to where it is
now and how many people haveinvested in that.
(17:18):
How many uh RRs do you have now?
17.
SPEAKER_02 (17:21):
You have 17 R and listen, in 2005, I was the April
president.
I, you know, the April presidentgives the Lifetime Achievement
Award.
That year, is it 2005 or six?
I don't remember which year, Igave Larry Sutton the Lifetime
Achievement Award because ofwhat he had done.
He'd already built a company andnow he's working on his second
company.
And so yeah, very much so.
SPEAKER_01 (17:43):
So I'm I'm a little side note, I'm gonna go see
Adam, right?
So I'm at I'm at the RR uhoffices and I want to go to see
Adam.
And you know, there's there's alot of there's a lot of things
that come beforehand.
I gotta meet the secretary, I'vegot to meet the officer.
Finally get into the office.
I'm going to the office.
And who do I see there as I walkin?
And it's Larry and Adam having aconversation.
I was like, man, uh, you know,it was just it was really cool
(18:04):
to see.
Yeah.
You know, and uh, of course,obviously I was like, you know,
Larry, I'm gonna see you soonbecause I've got to have a
conversation with you on the onthe Legends series.
But just the things that he'sbeen able to accomplish and do,
you know, just like yourselves,it's it's the things that you
kind of look back and go, theseare the people that have helped
make the industry what it istoday.
Some of the molds that werebroken, some of the ideas that
were had, or the longevity arejust saying, you know what,
(18:26):
we're not gonna give up.
And you said, I mean, you had toride right, didn't go that way,
and now you own 17 R and Rlocations, which I'm guessing
through the model that they'vehad and been able to share with
you, is doing very well.
Oh, yeah, we we love thatbusiness.
Love it.
It's it's it's actually a greatbusiness.
So what do you think was themost difficult time for you
(18:47):
together coming through this?
Was it the 2005 time?
Did it hit earlier than that?
Was there a was there a or Ishould say 2007, I'm excuse me,
um, when it went, you know, whenthe economy turned down, or was
there something different whereit hit kind of rent to own and
there was a thought like, man,this is this is getting hard?
SPEAKER_02 (19:02):
It was the ear well, I'm not gonna say it was hard.
It was the early 90s where wefelt the pressure or threat of
government intrusion where thegovernment may shut us down, and
you know, it was during thatperiod of time we'd go to
seminars and get the bejeebersscared out of us.
(19:23):
Um, it was the early part.
We had Cynthia and I bought thecompany in 1993, bought Babers
from the rest of the familymembers in 1993.
And that was around the time westarted having trouble.
So we had a lot at risk.
And so it was the earlier yearswhere the transaction was um at
(19:44):
risk that caused us the mostgrief.
But as far as business, businesswas we've always thought that
business was good or bad, and ifit was bad, it's because of
leadership.
It wasn't because of the modelor anything like that.
SPEAKER_01 (19:57):
And then out of that, would you say that making
it through those times whenyou're saying there's somebody
out there, there's an entity outthere, and the government is a
big entity looking to reallykind of take away our bread and
butter, what we do every singleday for our community, for our
people, for the people that workfor us on the other side of
that.
How was that experience to getthrough it and go, you know
(20:18):
what, we're here.
We made it through.
SPEAKER_00 (20:21):
It was uh an unusual time.
You felt um nervous that yourcompany may not be there because
there were consumer advocatesthat did not understand the
business at all.
And at that time, I can'tremember when Shannon and I were
(20:45):
we were on the on the board ofApril, he was president, I was
uh on on the board, but atdifferent times.
And the time that I was in as onthe board, I I just remember
that it was so important to letthe uh people of rent to own to
(21:10):
know what could be facing themif we didn't get to know our
legislators and protect ourbusiness, you know, trying tell
our uh legislators uh what rentto own was, tell our story, let
them understand how important itwas.
(21:31):
And um so w Shannon and I workedlong and hard on on that.
And um and that's one thing thatI worry about is that we have
become become complacent anddon't understand that with new
(21:55):
Congress taking over each year,they forget what happened back
then.
SPEAKER_02 (22:01):
We got married in 1993 and we had 15 or 17 stars,
I don't really remember howmany.
But you know, it was shortlythereafter that we were
concerned about uh thetransaction and and so our
growth we didn't really open anystores to speak of.
But the moment that we feltcomfortable, we uh expanded and
(22:24):
we ended up with up to fifty, weended up with 50 stores.
So we felt comfortable enough tokeep investing and keep opening
stores to answer your question.
SPEAKER_01 (22:32):
So going back to what you were saying, because
you you're invested, invested somuch that you keep on growing
and doing this, and you joinedApril at the 40 40 years or 44
years, whatever it is, but it'sbeen a long time.
How many times have you gone toDC?
I know I remember last time wewere at DC, last year there was
(22:53):
like this count of how manypeople have gone, so many.
SPEAKER_02 (22:55):
I don't know, 20 something.
I mean, we we we made it apledge to ourselves that we
would never miss it.
That we would go, you know,there was a short period of time
in the last five, six years.
We've been the last two, butwhere we stopped, but we've been
20 plus times.
SPEAKER_00 (23:10):
Both of us, he's been talking about the
legislative conference, right?
SPEAKER_02 (23:14):
And when I was president, we would go, gosh, I
bet we went 15 times that yearto DC.
And we but the legislativeconference, I don't really
remember the number, 20something times maybe.
SPEAKER_01 (23:25):
So over 20 different years of visiting the halls of
DC and kind of reminding themwhat it is that we do and how we
do we enjoyed it.
We enjoyed telling our story.
Absolutely.
So when you're there, whenyou're there, because now you're
the veterans now.
We we we're going there.
What kind of message are youletting the legislative know?
(24:30):
When you go to visit, you'resaying, This is my industry,
this is what we do, this is howwe are.
What kind of message are youtelling them when you get in
there and you finally have thatchance to sit down and just have
that conversation?
SPEAKER_02 (24:40):
We usually sit down and first off, right off the
bat, try to figure out wherethis person is we're talking to.
Where are they in the scale interms of understanding our
transaction?
We either explain thetransaction or we make sure that
they understand, if they knowthe transaction, that that our
customers are valuable, that ourcustomers like our product, like
our transaction, and we need tokeep that product to them.
(25:01):
It's it's a very different uh DCtoday is very different than
what it used to be.
We used to tell a story to keepstay in business.
Now we tell a story just toexplain what the transaction is
to the people that we're talkingto so they understand it.
It's not the urgency and thefear isn't there.
(25:23):
Um, it is really just aneducation, making sure that they
understand what our transactionis and that their constituents
use it.
SPEAKER_01 (25:31):
It's it's one of those things that I've just
started getting into.
So my this last year was mysecond year.
And uh thank God that I get togo in with people such as
yourself who were able to mentorme and say, hey, you know, Pete,
just kind of stand right thereand just figure it out.
And in, you know, in theprocess, we do get to speak.
You know, there's everybody hasa story to tell because you
know, a lot of things happen indifferent ways.
(25:53):
The way I see one story, and wecould all be in the same area,
you might see it completelydifferently.
So we we kind of share our storyand what we've been through and
what we've seen.
And um, you know, it's justamazing to see somebody's
experience throughout the yearsand have that confidence to talk
to people that I didn't think Iwould ever see, you know, and
sit in the same room with thepeople that I see on CNN going,
(26:13):
This is a business that Ibelieve in.
This is a business that I careabout.
And there are times, you know,whether it be Henry B.
Gonzalez or whether it be wehave vendors who just really
don't understand what we'redoing and we're they're kind of
reluctant to get on board withthat.
Um, and you know, trying tobreak through those barriers.
Was there any one of those timeswhere you had you come across
vendors like, I don't understandwhat you're doing, and I'm just
(26:33):
gonna kind of hold off on ituntil I know better?
SPEAKER_00 (26:37):
I don't think so.
Uh I think that they were alwaysuh They were always trying to
sell the product.
SPEAKER_02 (26:43):
So it didn't matter.
It didn't matter.
SPEAKER_00 (26:51):
Get educated.
And they would visit uh theirlegislators.
And uh I I always thought thatthe vendors were a great asset
because that was they were partof the economy, uh and the
legislators are always concernedabout the economy.
(27:12):
And and and so it was it wasjust a big team working to have
people understand our industryand um and and and to know that
people that were uh against ourindustry just hadn't really
(27:33):
talked to the customer that wasusing our product.
SPEAKER_02 (27:37):
You know, early we Cynthia and our fortunate in
that uh early in our businesscareer, we got involved with
state and federal government.
Cynthia and I started the umMississippi Rental Dealer
Association, now called Alamis,Alabama Mississippi Rental
Dealer Association, and we werethe ones that took the bill up
(28:00):
to Jackson, Mississippi, to getthe transaction defined on a
state level.
So that process was reallyeducational to us.
You know, working with thelobbyists, better understanding
how it worked, because that wasthe just a micro it was just a
small version of what washappening on the federal level.
So we got lucky in early in ourcareer messing with this stuff.
(28:22):
And so we had a very differentview of these meetings and how
it worked in D.C.
as well as on the state level.
SPEAKER_00 (28:29):
And Mississippi uh was one of the first states that
we were able to get arent-to-law, rent-to-own law
passed.
Okay.
And so when we got it passed, uhthen you felt comfortable.
Um and when we got enoughstates, uh it seemed that uh the
(28:51):
gov the national governmentbegan to not be so concerned
about it.
SPEAKER_02 (28:57):
It it actually became a problem.
And you know, people would askus when we told them we have
states in 47, we have laws in 47states.
They were like, then why why areyou worried about this?
Why are you worried about a an afederal bill, a national
transaction?
And so in some ways, we were sosuccessful at the state levels
that caused us some grief on afederal level.
SPEAKER_01 (29:20):
So he's a little bit different.
There's been a lot of peoplesaying we should get that
federal law passed so that wecan be covered everywhere and
all.
Uh, and Edwin has always said,you know, it would be great, but
number one, it's gonna take alot.
And number two, you might notwant the federal government
looking at the business the waythe state does, because each
state is a little bit different.
(29:40):
They're a little bit easier todeal with, it's just here, it's
not everywhere.
When you start getting into theeverywhere, you have a lot.
SPEAKER_02 (29:46):
We had our local congressmen, the the the the
some of them were friends ofours, said you need to be
careful what you're asking for.
That's exactly what he said.
SPEAKER_01 (29:54):
He said those exact words.
He said, you know, you mightwant to be careful what you
asked for.
Because if you get that law, youmight be in a whole different
arena with a lot of differentplayers.
And so, you know, it's alwaysthose thoughts that how do we
get here?
You know, how do we do this?
You said Mississippi was one ofthe first few that came on.
Um, how active were you guys inin that, or how active were you
(30:16):
in that Mississippi law that gotthat got passed?
SPEAKER_02 (30:19):
We were the ones that that caused.
I mean, I was president at thetime of the state association.
We were the ones that drove thetrain.
SPEAKER_01 (30:26):
What you you were part of a state law that was
passed to help regulate rent toown, make it profitable, but
make it understandable that weare we are held to a certain you
know decorum for our customers,for ourselves, and what we do.
That's right.
What do you think about this lawthat's going on in New York
right now?
SPEAKER_00 (30:48):
You always have to worry because uh if you get uh
several states that start tochange their law, uh make it
different, uh sometimes it itcan be different in a good way,
and other times it can bedifferent in a very bad way.
SPEAKER_02 (31:07):
There's always fear that you have you have unsavory
pieces of uh legislation thatgoes through in our industry,
that it'll go to other statesand it'll start becoming
something.
I mean, I'm not saying thatwould happen, but you know, New
York's kind of wild out thereanyway.
But but that is the fear to it,is that if it's successful one
place, it may be successfulelse.
SPEAKER_01 (31:26):
Well, I I know that you used a word earlier that
really kind of caught me, andthat was complacent.
Um, and that's one thing that wejust can't afford to do right
now.
Cannot because I agree with youjust the same.
It only takes one domino, justone, and you'll see the rest
change.
SPEAKER_02 (31:44):
That's right.
SPEAKER_01 (31:44):
And it's you know, it's one of those situations
like I definitely understand whythey're concerned because
they're concerned about theirconstituents and don't want to
make the Right call.
But doing that in it from anuneducated standpoint can really
make a problem for the rest.
And we're trying to stay out ofthe federal arena unless we
really have to.
We're regulated highly in a lotof the states that we're in.
(32:05):
And now all of a sudden we couldbe back in that arena again.
And it's one of those we'vereally got to get together and
make sure that we're on top ofthat so that we can keep on
doing business like we have beenfor years and years and years.
So what's coming up?
What's coming up next in theindustry?
What would you say that's comingup next for yourselves, but for
(32:26):
the industry as a whole,something that's on the horizon
that you're looking at as in thenext few years is coming down
the pipe, this is the directionwe need to go in?
SPEAKER_00 (32:36):
I think that um we are presently we are on the
right path.
But if if we are not consciousof every little change that a
state may make, uh it could be aproblem.
(32:56):
And we need to be very careful.
I'm so glad to have a programlike this because uh I it is a
vehicle to get uh theinformation to our newer members
who don't who've never gonethrough any of these hard times.
SPEAKER_01 (33:18):
Well, it it has been a little while, right?
And unfortunately, sometimes uhtimes in great peace, we forget
why we have the peace and thesacrifices that were made by the
people ahead of us, such asyourselves kind of going through
some of the implementations ofthat time frame and going, you
know, we've got to go throughthe Henry B.
Gonzalez's, we have to go to thestate legislator, we have to go
(33:39):
to the legal conferences everysingle year to remind them what
we do and how we do it.
You know, so saying that thatyou think that that might be
coming up next, to just makesure that we keep a fine-tuned
fork on what's going on next.
SPEAKER_02 (33:54):
You you asked that question, and it's it's hard for
me not to think about risks inour business that we'll have to
deal with.
And so I remember early on whenwe were talking about the
rent-owned transaction and whatconstitutes rent own and at what
point does it become a saleversus rent own?
And there's some percentage,some number that was arbitrary.
(34:17):
I don't remember what it was.
But I look at the I look for theexample of the RR transaction.
The RR transaction, you know, weoffer a six-month same as cash,
and 50% of our customers pay offthe agreement within six months.
So our purchase option,including going all the way to
the very end, is probably in the70 percentile.
(34:42):
And I don't know where thatchanges and says, well, that's
really not rent-owned.
That's a concern of mine.
SPEAKER_01 (34:48):
You know, watching and and and and feeding off you
guys and just seeing howinvolved you have been, I am
curious who were the who wassomeone or a few people who were
your mentors, people who kind ofinfluenced you, helped you
along, gave you that guidinglight in a dark tunnel in the
beginning, or maybe now thatyou've kind of relied on, really
(35:10):
more so in the beginning, butyou know, who was somebody or a
few people that kind of reallyhelped you be mentors to you and
guided you to where you aretoday?
SPEAKER_02 (35:19):
I think both of us will answer this question
differently.
I I don't know her answer, butfor me, there's really a couple
people that had a significant umuh uh impact on our business or
on my on me, on way businessoperated.
And one of them was DarylTissett, um, Mike Tissett's
father, and another one is DavidBlevins.
(35:42):
David, those two people we wouldalways saddle up with when we'd
go to April conventions or RT oruh legislative conferences and
communicate and talk and and youknow steal whatever's whatever
they're willing to offer out oftheir head.
Um so those there were and therewere there were plenty others.
(36:02):
I'm sure there are people thatI'm forgetting, but but those
two people have passed and theycome to mind.
SPEAKER_01 (36:10):
Daryl Tissett and David Blevins.
Right, big, big names, big namesin the RTR world.
How about yourself?
SPEAKER_00 (36:17):
Uh the same.
I was involved with with thosethose two.
Uh Gary Farriman.
He started off.
He is a favorite.
SPEAKER_01 (36:28):
I'm telling you, he pops up.
I told you know what's funny,and I don't mean to erupt.
I apologize.
I was talking to Gary the otherday, and I said, Gary, I don't
think you realize how manypeople bring your name up in
these conversations that youknow you're just somebody that
they they lean on.
And he seemed so shocked.
Um not uncommon.
It it's actually almost theuncommon part would be not to
(36:50):
mention his name.
He comes up in so many differentlevels.
And, you know, I was really gladto see him take an award.
I'm really glad to know thathe's really been that
influential.
But you know, please carry on.
I just wanted you mention Garybecause he he has done so many
things for this industry,including helping some of our
leadership get to where theyare, at least get through
certain times where you're like,I need some advice.
(37:10):
I need something, Gary.
Help me out, you know.
And he just does a great job.
SPEAKER_00 (37:14):
He is he's a wonderful man and he's a quiet
man.
Uh, so I think that may be onereason he doesn't uh come out.
I'm gonna get it done.
He just has gotten it donequietly.
SPEAKER_01 (37:29):
You know, listening is a superpower.
Yeah.
He does it very well.
Yeah, he does.
I wish I did it better than hedoes.
I am not, I am not doing it aswell as he didn't know.
SPEAKER_00 (37:38):
Great and the ones that Shannon mentioned, you
know, that they were just alwaysthere and working hard.
They were always free advice.
SPEAKER_02 (37:46):
I mean, they're willing to talk to you about
anything.
SPEAKER_01 (37:49):
So going back to early days, we have some of the
things we run into and some ofthe things that we come across,
people that have helped us out.
But I remember in the late 80s,our point of sale software
wasn't all that great, kind ofneeded a little bit of a revamp.
Was there something that youguys got or started using that
(38:12):
helped you?
I don't want to say 21st centurynow, but the 20th century that
really kind of got the ballrolling.
I know high touch was a bigthing back then, a certain point
in time.
What did you guys use and howwell did it translate you from,
let's say, the early 80s goinginto the 90s and maybe the
2000s?
SPEAKER_02 (38:29):
When I started, we didn't have computers.
Green bar?
We did you have green bar?
Was it green bar the stripyou're talking about?
SPEAKER_01 (38:38):
The cards, posting cards?
Yeah.
Is that what you're talkingabout?
Well, the green bar that we hadwould come out on a dot matrix
printer.
SPEAKER_00 (38:43):
Oh no, no, no.
SPEAKER_02 (38:44):
We didn't have a computer.
SPEAKER_00 (38:45):
We hadn't have a computer.
SPEAKER_02 (38:47):
We had, we had little, we had sheet.
Posting cards.
Posting.
So you used the little carbonstrip, you laid the you laid the
customer, you go through thecard box, find the customer, lay
the customer's card down, putthe receipt over the top of it,
had carbon on the back, andyou'd write down their receipt
and it would post.
It's called a posting card.
As a matter of fact, if you talkto old, older, not old, but if
(39:09):
you talk to older rent-to-ownedpeople, people who have been in
the industry a long time, theyused the term card close.
Are you familiar with that?
I still use card clothes.
SPEAKER_01 (39:16):
I use my guys look at me all the time.
Do you know why?
SPEAKER_02 (39:22):
You would take the cards and the ones that were
late, you'd put over here, andhere were the ones and you buy
them.
That's exactly right.
Card clothes.
So um that when I started,that's what we had.
We didn't have computers.
SPEAKER_00 (39:32):
But that was shortly after we did get computers.
SPEAKER_02 (39:36):
No, we didn't get computers.
Yeah, you're talking aboutcomputers came shortly after I
got here.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So we started getting intocomputers in the 80 in 89.
In 89, we started puttingcomputers in our tracks, was the
software we used.
And so it changed, of course, itchanged the way we did the
business.
And um we, you know, we we usedthat software, some old
(40:00):
software.
We used that software for years.
And when we moved to Versorant,of course, that process was very
painful, but when moved toBerserrent, it that change
changed the way we operated.
It became so much easier for amanager to become to do a
manager, be a manager and lesswork for them.
(40:22):
And um, and the home office datathat we collected from it was
invaluable.
So that was a the the changingof that software to something
that was more centralized was ahuge change for us.
Before that, uh we didn't haveconsolidated info worth a flip.
SPEAKER_01 (40:39):
Do you think that that transition, the amount of
knowledge, the amount ofavailability to speak kind of
overlook your business, was thata transitional point where you
were able to grow because ofthat?
SPEAKER_02 (40:50):
Yeah, we went through for us, it was a very
painful process to changesoftware.
We didn't do it well.
But once we got past it threeyears later or so, then the
answer to your question is yes.
We changed the way we operated.
It changed, caused us enough, itgave us the ability to change
lots of processes and policieson the way we operated and we
could see the results of it.
SPEAKER_01 (41:11):
And it makes it so much easier to be able to go in
and and and kind of forecast thenext few months when you have
the data coming from frombehind.
SPEAKER_02 (41:19):
That's right.
So yeah, you didn't have to waituntil you talk to somebody.
You came in the next morning andit was there.
And now it's there.
SPEAKER_01 (41:26):
It was there, you can pull it off the printer and
kind of look at it or get it inyour emails.
So as we go through things likethis, where we sit down and we
talk to people just asyourselves who have been in this
industry for years, almostgenerationally at some point.
Do you have anybody that's fullfilling in those blanks?
Do you have children that aregoing to be a part of this
industry?
SPEAKER_02 (41:44):
All three children uh work for the company.
SPEAKER_01 (41:47):
Absolutely.
All right.
So then you've got three thatare uh do they plan on taking
over at some point in time?
They do.
SPEAKER_02 (41:52):
They plan on staying.
When we're dead and gone, theyplan on staying working for the
company.
SPEAKER_00 (41:56):
That's right.
They are, they are in fact, hewas he was ill not too long ago,
and we were both had to be outof the office for a long time,
and we were worried about howthey were going to do, and they
did beautifully.
SPEAKER_01 (42:14):
They showed up.
SPEAKER_00 (42:15):
They they were there, and they they would meet
every Friday, uh, have breakfastand discuss how they were gonna
get through that.
SPEAKER_02 (42:25):
When we hired them, they knew it was a real job and
that they had to show up everyday and they had to perform, had
to perform, or they wouldn'thave a job.
SPEAKER_01 (42:35):
They didn't have a cushion job.
So what would you say?
And I know they're family, soit's it's kind of like a little
bit of a different thing here,but what would you say to the
next management, whether it befamily or not, that's coming
around a corner and taking upsome of the positions that we
have?
We have a lot of 40-year legendsthat are kind of get to that
point where it's, I need to passthis torch.
(42:56):
I might not be out of italtogether, but it's that time
where I can pass a torch tosomebody else.
You know, Gary Ferriman, uh,obviously one that we're talking
about, Mike Tissett from Daryl,you know, one of the things that
we talk about.
You know, when you when you lookat these situations, what is
something that you would sayfrom yourselves and go, Shannon
Cynthia think that if you knowthis or if you follow this or if
(43:20):
you do this, this is the bestadvice that I think we can give
you to give you as much successfor the next 20 or 30 or 40
years that you do it.
SPEAKER_02 (43:29):
Forecast positively and believe in your people.
Believe your people can do whatyou're forecasting.
I mean, the the when I look atthe variances in the businesses
and the models, when somebody isconservative and fearful, that
business doesn't grow anywhereclose to when somebody somebody
puts their two cents out thereand says, we're gonna do this,
(43:51):
and then they put actions inplace to achieve that.
That is the single mostimportant part of business in my
book.
SPEAKER_00 (44:07):
I think the hardest thing is if you were to force
them and just push them to takeover a company that they really
don't want to.
But ours all love it.
Some of them started off as uhthey would file papers and clean
(44:28):
bathrooms.
SPEAKER_02 (44:29):
I was gonna say they all went through this life of
cleaning bathrooms.
SPEAKER_00 (44:32):
So it was uh w we started them out with the worst
jobs so that they wouldappreciate uh what had it had
built into.
SPEAKER_01 (44:43):
To make sure you don't get into this and not
really love it organically.
That's right.
Absolutely.
I completely agree.
So going into the end, goinginto rounding all this up, you
know, something that April wantsto know, I want to know.
I'm curious.
We can't always mold our the waythat people have looked at us,
(45:04):
right?
The legacy that we left.
It's really done by what we didand then looked at by the people
around us, right?
They are gonna tell us what theythink of the legacy that we
left.
What do you think somebody'sgonna say about the Baby Strunk
legacy as you guys have gottento a point where you got the
children involved?
At some point in time, I wouldimagine that they're gonna take
(45:26):
over.
And what is a legacy that youwant to pass on or or say that
you feel like you've done topass on?
SPEAKER_02 (45:34):
I really hope that we really concentrated on the
customer first and then theemployee next, because that
cycle is what keeps thatbusiness thriving.
And we do.
We concentrate very heavily on agreat customer experience, but
(45:55):
our employees are paramount tous.
Think of us as a reversetriangle.
Cynthia and I are at the bottom.
Turn the triangle over, we're atthe bottom.
And so I we put our employeesabove us in a heartbeat, and we
we actually do.
So I'm hoping that's the waythey viewed it, and that they
didn't view it any other way.
SPEAKER_00 (46:15):
Uh, they should always remember that the
customer is what uh makes yourcompany continue.
SPEAKER_01 (46:22):
Well, they're the one, they're the one employee
that can fire us all.
That's right.
That's right.
You know, that's some sense tosay that's been coming up
lately, and it and it God knowsit's true.
I really appreciate you guysbeing here.
Guys, I appreciate you watching.
So we got Cynthia Baber Strunk,we got Shannon Strunk, legends
in the business over 40 years,and just about everything they
can do from starting thebusiness to actually being
(46:44):
advocates in APRO and kind ofhelping us get to where we are,
whether it be legally orfinancially, with 17 RRs.
And how many other businesses doyou have?
How many stores do you have alltogether?
SPEAKER_02 (46:55):
Well, we we we sold the Baber stores.
So you sold them?
Sold them in 2019.
SPEAKER_00 (46:59):
They're still a part of APRO.
SPEAKER_01 (47:00):
So it's just the is this the RR stores now?
SPEAKER_02 (47:02):
Just R's.
We have some other businesses,but we've sold those.
We're concentrating 100% of oureffort now on RR.
SPEAKER_01 (47:08):
Well, I'm not going to argue because red zone is
what we do.
That's right.
We really appreciate them beinghere.
We appreciate you guys watching.
I'm so glad that you guys werehere to be able to share this
with me.
Listen, if you guys have anyquestions, please hit up the
show at pet at thertoshowpodcast.com.
Ask me anything you like,including anything for them.
And if it's good, I will makesure that they get an answer for
you.
Make sure that you follow us onFacebook and Instagram,
(47:29):
LinkedIn, and now YouTube whereyou can see this.
So make sure you subscribe.
Hit us up on the podcast and theDMs.
Guys, I'm really, reallyappreciate that you've been
here.
I am so glad that you were ableto take part in the Legends
series because you guys togetherare unique, as in You're Married
and Legends Together, bothpresidents, both done a great
job for this industry.
And I will tell you guys, Ireally, really, really
(47:50):
appreciate you being here.
I really appreciate you beingpart of this.
And I will tell you guys, asalways, make sure you get your
collections low to get yoursales high.
Have a great one.
Hey everybody, welcome to the RTO Show podcast.
Today, we're going through ourLegends series, and thank God we
have a couple of Legends thistime.
Not just one.
We actually ended up with two.
And guys, I don't know if youknow who they are, but I'm glad
that they're here because if youhaven't heard, they've probably
done some stuff in the last 40years that has affected your RTO
(01:31):
experience, including mine.
I mean, you guys have done alot, not only with APRO, but the
businesses that you've run andthe peoples and the lives that
you've touched.
So, together with APRO, wewanted to have a conversation
with these guys and kind of picktheir brain and see exactly what
you guys have done and how didyou get here in that story, that
road that led us to exactlywhere we are today.
(01:51):
So, right now I'm sitting withShannon and Cynthia Baber
Strunk.
Now, I just found out, likeliterally a couple of minutes
ago, that both have achieved alifetime achievement awards.
Now, I might think about alifetime achievement award.
I think the dedication and thehard road that it takes to get
there because it's never easy,right?
Nobody gets a lifetimeachievement award just because
(02:11):
they showed up every year.
SPEAKER_02 (02:12):
It means old people.
SPEAKER_01 (02:14):
Well, you know, just the things that you go through
and how you learn, how yousucceed, how you how you do the
best with what you had at thatpoint in time.
And when they see thatachievement, they say, What, you
know what?
These people deserve to berecognized.
It just so happens that we havea husband and wife doing it,
right?
So tell me about yourself alittle bit.
So right now, uh of BabyrusTrunk Enterprises.
SPEAKER_02 (02:35):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (02:36):
So I'm seeing 40 plus year member in April, board
of directors between 99 and2007, so almost a 10-year
stretch there.
Um, president and then Aprilpresident for two years, and
then your president and been amore board member, and a 20-plus
allege con attendee.
Or is it trib?
SPEAKER_00 (02:57):
President of Trib.
SPEAKER_01 (02:58):
Okay, so what we want to do is you guys start
business.
What made you guys decide rentto own is where I wanted to go?
SPEAKER_02 (03:06):
Well, I I actually started different than Cynthia.
I was an employee hired by thecompany that we now own, Babers
Inc.
I came in as an account manager,started my way as an account
manager and built up through theranks.
Um, I when I started with thecompany, I was with the company
(03:26):
maybe two weeks and decided Iwasn't gonna stick around long.
That I wasn't gonna I wasn'tgonna be with the company long
at all.
Um I didn't understand theproduct.
I didn't understand what rentown was.
I I grew up in a very differentlife.
And so it wasn't until I goteducated about what rent own
really was that I began tounderstand the value.
(03:46):
I began to understand how goodthat product was and how many
people needed it, that I it ithad an appeal to me.
That changed.
You know, I went to a customer'shouse and I went to, I was an
account manager, started asaccount manager, and I went to
go pick up a washer and dryerfrom a lady I was account
manager, she wasn't paying onthe account and I couldn't get
her to pay on it.
And she looked me in the faceand she said, point blank, I'll
(04:08):
never own the laundromat.
You're not getting it.
And that that just shook mebecause I didn't understand.
I didn't view it that way.
I just thought it was a product.
I didn't realize that theservice of the RTO was actually
the product.
And so it changed the way Ilooked at the transaction,
changed the way that I looked atour customers, just the whole
process changed.
(04:28):
And I worked for that customerand she caught it back up and
everything.
It was fine.
But but I was out there to pickit up and it changed everything.
So once that process started andI understood the value of what
rent to own offered, then itstarted interesting me, and then
I started proceeded proceedingand I moved up the ranks.
SPEAKER_01 (04:46):
How did you get into it?
SPEAKER_00 (04:50):
Family.
SPEAKER_01 (04:51):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (04:52):
Um my late husband uh and his father opened our
first uh rent to own store inPascagoula, Mississippi.
And it was early on.
It happened because we hadFirestone stores, three of them,
and they were um do did well.
(05:15):
And then suddenly the economyreally dropped.
And we were uh not nearly wewere not doing nearly so well as
we had.
SPEAKER_01 (05:29):
When you when you say the economy, what what year
was was with this around?
SPEAKER_00 (05:32):
Uh between 2000 uh 1979 and and 80.
SPEAKER_02 (05:41):
But that was back when the Firestone store sold
appliances.
Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_01 (05:45):
I'm just thinking of tires.
SPEAKER_02 (05:46):
Right, right.
So they were selling appliances.
They had a whole full range ofstuff that they sold.
Oh so when the economy was goingsouth, they were suffering in
the Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (05:55):
All right, all right.
So I understand a little bitmore.
I was okay.
SPEAKER_00 (05:58):
And so we uh we had three, three, of course, that uh
we didn't know what to do with,and a friend uh suggested that
we look at went to own.
And we had never have heard ofit, and Mr.
Uh Baber, my father-in-law, uhsaid, we're gonna give it a try.
(06:19):
So we added appliances and uhtelevisions to our showroom of
the um Firstone stores, andthat's how we started.
And my mother-in-law uh askedhim one day, well, how's the new
business going?
And he said, I don't know, butwe're doing a lot of it.
SPEAKER_01 (06:44):
I actually really like that idea.
So you've had this ability to gothrough in different ways.
You started in the business, youkind of started a little bit
differently, the bumps andbruises in the road.
What were some of the earlychallenges?
Because you said that you knowyou weren't initially in rent to
own, but we kind of got there.
And it sounded like it was goingvery well.
(07:06):
There was a little bit ofunderstanding, um, a little bit
of an onboard process of going,oh, wait a minute, this works
differently than I expected.
What were some of the earlytrials and tribulations of that
time period that you guys had toface that was really like this
is almost a breaking moment herewhere we we really got to take a
look at what we're doing tocontinue on?
And and we're we're so when didyou start?
SPEAKER_02 (07:27):
I started in 1987, March of '97.
SPEAKER_01 (07:30):
So I'm 87.
So let's start with you then.
Because you're you're abouteight, eight years earlier.
Was there something at thatpoint in time that you said, you
know, hey, this was somethingthat we had to get through, or
something that your font yourfamily experienced that, you
know, if we don't make thatchange, like you said, you kind
of added um the TVs and and andthe other things.
When do you remember when thatwas?
SPEAKER_00 (07:50):
Uh, that was in uh 1980, the beginning of 1980.
And it was um it went well.
We grew quickly to 17went-to-owned stores.
Wow.
At that point, we we left, wedidn't leave, we they were still
(08:12):
opened, but we uh our emphasisbecame the um RTO stores.
We were doing very well.
I was not involved at all,except I I designed our first
logo, and I um what else did Ido?
(08:33):
Oh, I did policy and proceduremanagement.
SPEAKER_01 (08:36):
Well, that's the backbone.
That's the backbone of what wedo.
SPEAKER_00 (08:38):
And those were the only things I did because I was
a biology teacher.
Oh, okay.
And so I wasn't reallyinterested in all of this.
SPEAKER_01 (08:47):
Everything that we're doing here.
SPEAKER_00 (08:48):
And then my late husband was killed in an
airplane accident.
I'm sorry to hear that.
And so it thrust me into a lifethat I did not know anything
about.
SPEAKER_02 (09:02):
But I but she meant me.
SPEAKER_00 (09:03):
So I had I had been my late husband's uh assistant
um part you know, part-time, andit was it it was very hard.
But my late husband had told meto trust Shannon that he was a
(09:25):
good man.
SPEAKER_02 (09:26):
I didn't I don't think he meant marry me anyway.
There was some foresight, but hewasn't sure what it was.
SPEAKER_00 (09:33):
No.
And so uh he he did computerswell, and so he came back from
the area that he was managing toour home office on the Gulf
Coast, and we have had awonderful time together since
then in the rent-to-ownedindustry.
SPEAKER_01 (09:55):
So 87, you're coming in, you're kind of learning how
we do things, how the customersare, the interactions, how
important we might be to peoplewho just really don't understand
um life.
They're kind of getting throughit and they're like, I need
somebody to help me.
I don't have credit, I need toget these things taken care of,
and I need to make sure that Igo someplace.
Well, you know, help me out.
(10:15):
It's I get service, I getdelivery, I get all that
included.
What when did you go into themanagement side of it where you
started really kind of seeingthe industry from a different
point of view?
SPEAKER_02 (10:24):
Um, I was I was made a manager just three months
later.
Um, and moved up to Tuscaloosa,Alabama, moved up, moved away
from the Gulf Coast up to astore, became a store manager,
and then went through the ranksof, we called them, we didn't
call them district managers, wecalled them supervisors, moved
up through the ranks in thecompany.
SPEAKER_01 (10:42):
So, what were some of the earlier trials and
tribulations that youexperienced coming into this
business?
Because there is a there's atime frame, and I think we've
kind of done a lot to change it.
But earlier on, late 80s, early90s, there was a moniker kind of
over-rent to own, like, oh, youknow, we're kind of taking
advantage of a customer thatreally can't afford to not be
taken advantage.
(11:03):
They need these products, so ofcourse we go in and then we we
supplement with these products,but they they have this and they
have that.
Well, you're paying a little bitmore, and you know, there's all
these ideas.
Well, you know, you have theability to return it.
Well, they're trying to comeafter us.
What were some of the earlierthings that you came across?
You said, I really I gottachange this mindset of what's
going on.
SPEAKER_02 (11:23):
Those experiences in early 90s for me really is what
caused me to get very active inthe industry because I knew what
it was like, but I I hadcustomers and I knew the value
that it provided for thecustomers and the relationships
that we built, and I knew whatthe customers were doing.
I mean, so what my personalexperience was was so different
(11:45):
from what I was reading orhearing elsewhere.
And so I didn't like that.
And so, from my perspective, itwas an easy transition to get
involved because I wanted totell a different story.
SPEAKER_01 (11:57):
And so when did, and this might be a different time
frame, but when did you guys getinvolved with Apro?
Because you know, it's it's notonly the legal advocacy, but
it's a mouthpiece forrent-to-owned to say, we're
doing the right thing, not onlyby you, but by us, trying to
make sure that the regulationstays favorable, making sure
that we can take care of you theway we say we're gonna take care
(12:17):
of you, but not in a credittransaction, because honestly,
that is a whole nother ballgame.
That's a bag of worms that we'renot getting into.
We want to make sure that wetake care of our customer.
When did that advocacy start?
SPEAKER_02 (12:27):
Baber started when April, I mean, Baber started uh
April when April started.
So we were one of the one of theearly members of April.
So we've been on as soon as assoon as it was available to do.
My my experience with Apriloccurred in I'll I'll say in 89,
started in 87, it was probably89, when I went to Birmingham to
(12:49):
a industry meeting, and Ed Wynnwas leading the meeting.
He was it was a legislative, Imean it was a uh a legal
session, and that's when Ireally started.
First of all, I loved Ed Wynn.
He was awesome, and I reallyappreciated the message he was
giving in.
But but but at that time it wasa scare message.
You know, it was a worry aboutthe the industry and what
(13:11):
whether the industry was gonnaexist.
And so I really got involved.
That's what caused me to getinvolved in the industry, was Ed
Wynne.
SPEAKER_01 (13:18):
You know, it's funny.
I've done this is now our thirdLegends podcast, uh, aside from
the Ken Butler.
Everybody mentions Ed Wynne.
He he is a name that constantlycomes up.
I love talking to him.
Um, he's he is he's just nononsense.
He just he's he's so full ofinformation.
I mean, Edwin's like a walkingencyclopedia of rent-to-owned
(13:41):
legal matters.
Um, but everybody mentionsEdwin.
As a matter of fact, Wayland wasjust talking about that not that
long ago.
It was great to great to kind ofcatch up with him on that.
But what do you think thatBabers did?
What do you think that you guysdid that made the rent
rent-to-owned transactionthrough Babers successful?
What spin did you guys put onit?
That's, you know, this is ourclaim to the rent-to-owned
(14:04):
industry.
This is why we're successful,this is why our stores have been
able to prosper for all theseyears.
SPEAKER_02 (14:09):
We really concentrated on smaller markets
where they were underserved.
In some cases, they wereunderserved by anybody providing
products that we were not justrent-owned, but sales.
We specialized in the smallermarkets to take care of the
customers.
SPEAKER_00 (14:24):
And it was a needed business because it allowed
people to get product that theyhad never been able to get
before.
They just could not afford it.
Uh and with the the model thatwe were using, they could afford
(14:45):
it.
SPEAKER_01 (14:46):
So let me ask you guys a question from
recollection.
What was a product that youreally weren't sure was gonna
kind of take off, but you tookthe chance, you brought it in,
and realized this is the this isa next step in where we're
going.
SPEAKER_02 (15:01):
Cell phones.
Really?
Cell phones.
Okay.
You know, it was a risk.
It was a different, it wasn't,it had other services tied to
it.
So cell phones was probably, inmy memory, cell phones was
probably the first item that webrought into the business.
SPEAKER_00 (15:18):
Um that it was so new.
Yeah, cell phones were not uhsomething that had been a lot
around very long.
SPEAKER_02 (15:27):
We started with some actual bag phones.
SPEAKER_01 (15:31):
So, okay.
Now we're now we're talking.
When did you start that?
When around what time frame didyou bring those in and realize
we've got something here?
SPEAKER_00 (15:39):
I I don't know.
It had to be about 90s, late90s?
No, it had 92.
SPEAKER_01 (15:45):
Oh, early 90s.
SPEAKER_02 (15:46):
Yeah, it had to be 92, 93, 94, somewhere.
We we don't actually remember.
We remember the product.
That's okay.
And we remember the cycles thatwe went through, changing from
bag to real to to little toiPhone, you know, went went
through the whole gamut.
SPEAKER_01 (16:02):
Now, you were saying that was something that really
worked for us.
It kind of took off and took usto a whole different direction
that we didn't know before.
unknown (16:08):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (16:20):
Most were successful.
There were a few that wereweren't, but most were.
SPEAKER_02 (16:24):
Another product we tried, Cynthia and I uh took, we
she told you we started as aFirestone store.
And we still had Firestonestores operating, but over time
we closed them, changed andturned them into uh baby Baber
stores.
We had one Firestone left in thecompany, and Cynthia and I
bought that out of the companyand turned it into a
rent-to-owned tire and wheelcompany and uh called
(16:48):
RideWright.
And um, after we'd lost enoughsignificant money, we closed it.
But we are now RR franchisees.
SPEAKER_01 (16:56):
You know, I was just talking to uh to Adam Sutton,
who is I I love him to death.
Uh pulled his family dear, youknow, coming from Tampa, whether
it would be Slatten, whether itbe Larry, you know, and now
Adam, um, everything thatthey've done has just been an
amazing to watch RR kind of growfrom where it was to where it is
now and how many people haveinvested in that.
(17:18):
How many uh RRs do you have now?
17.
SPEAKER_02 (17:21):
You have 17 R and listen, in 2005, I was the April
president.
I, you know, the April presidentgives the Lifetime Achievement
Award.
That year, is it 2005 or six?
I don't remember which year, Igave Larry Sutton the Lifetime
Achievement Award because ofwhat he had done.
He'd already built a company andnow he's working on his second
company.
And so yeah, very much so.
SPEAKER_01 (17:43):
So I'm I'm a little side note, I'm gonna go see
Adam, right?
So I'm at I'm at the RR uhoffices and I want to go to see
Adam.
And you know, there's there's alot of there's a lot of things
that come beforehand.
I gotta meet the secretary, I'vegot to meet the officer.
Finally get into the office.
I'm going to the office.
And who do I see there as I walkin?
And it's Larry and Adam having aconversation.
I was like, man, uh, you know,it was just it was really cool
(18:04):
to see.
Yeah.
You know, and uh, of course,obviously I was like, you know,
Larry, I'm gonna see you soonbecause I've got to have a
conversation with you on the onthe Legends series.
But just the things that he'sbeen able to accomplish and do,
you know, just like yourselves,it's it's the things that you
kind of look back and go, theseare the people that have helped
make the industry what it istoday.
Some of the molds that werebroken, some of the ideas that
were had, or the longevity arejust saying, you know what,
(18:26):
we're not gonna give up.
And you said, I mean, you had toride right, didn't go that way,
and now you own 17 R and Rlocations, which I'm guessing
through the model that they'vehad and been able to share with
you, is doing very well.
Oh, yeah, we we love thatbusiness.
Love it.
It's it's it's actually a greatbusiness.
So what do you think was themost difficult time for you
(18:47):
together coming through this?
Was it the 2005 time?
Did it hit earlier than that?
Was there a was there a or Ishould say 2007, I'm excuse me,
um, when it went, you know, whenthe economy turned down, or was
there something different whereit hit kind of rent to own and
there was a thought like, man,this is this is getting hard?
SPEAKER_02 (19:02):
It was the ear well, I'm not gonna say it was hard.
It was the early 90s where wefelt the pressure or threat of
government intrusion where thegovernment may shut us down, and
you know, it was during thatperiod of time we'd go to
seminars and get the bejeebersscared out of us.
(19:23):
Um, it was the early part.
We had Cynthia and I bought thecompany in 1993, bought Babers
from the rest of the familymembers in 1993.
And that was around the time westarted having trouble.
So we had a lot at risk.
And so it was the earlier yearswhere the transaction was um at
(19:44):
risk that caused us the mostgrief.
But as far as business, businesswas we've always thought that
business was good or bad, and ifit was bad, it's because of
leadership.
It wasn't because of the modelor anything like that.
SPEAKER_01 (19:57):
And then out of that, would you say that making
it through those times whenyou're saying there's somebody
out there, there's an entity outthere, and the government is a
big entity looking to reallykind of take away our bread and
butter, what we do every singleday for our community, for our
people, for the people that workfor us on the other side of
that.
How was that experience to getthrough it and go, you know
(20:18):
what, we're here.
We made it through.
SPEAKER_00 (20:21):
It was uh an unusual time.
You felt um nervous that yourcompany may not be there because
there were consumer advocatesthat did not understand the
business at all.
And at that time, I can'tremember when Shannon and I were
(20:45):
we were on the on the board ofApril, he was president, I was
uh on on the board, but atdifferent times.
And the time that I was in as onthe board, I I just remember
that it was so important to letthe uh people of rent to own to
(21:10):
know what could be facing themif we didn't get to know our
legislators and protect ourbusiness, you know, trying tell
our uh legislators uh what rentto own was, tell our story, let
them understand how important itwas.
(21:31):
And um so w Shannon and I workedlong and hard on on that.
And um and that's one thing thatI worry about is that we have
become become complacent anddon't understand that with new
(21:55):
Congress taking over each year,they forget what happened back
then.
SPEAKER_02 (22:01):
We got married in 1993 and we had 15 or 17 stars,
I don't really remember howmany.
But you know, it was shortlythereafter that we were
concerned about uh thetransaction and and so our
growth we didn't really open anystores to speak of.
But the moment that we feltcomfortable, we uh expanded and
(22:24):
we ended up with up to fifty, weended up with 50 stores.
So we felt comfortable enough tokeep investing and keep opening
stores to answer your question.
SPEAKER_01 (22:32):
So going back to what you were saying, because
you you're invested, invested somuch that you keep on growing
and doing this, and you joinedApril at the 40 40 years or 44
years, whatever it is, but it'sbeen a long time.
How many times have you gone toDC?
I know I remember last time wewere at DC, last year there was
(22:53):
like this count of how manypeople have gone, so many.
SPEAKER_02 (22:55):
I don't know, 20 something.
I mean, we we we made it apledge to ourselves that we
would never miss it.
That we would go, you know,there was a short period of time
in the last five, six years.
We've been the last two, butwhere we stopped, but we've been
20 plus times.
SPEAKER_00 (23:10):
Both of us, he's been talking about the
legislative conference, right?
SPEAKER_02 (23:14):
And when I was president, we would go, gosh, I
bet we went 15 times that yearto DC.
And we but the legislativeconference, I don't really
remember the number, 20something times maybe.
SPEAKER_01 (23:25):
So over 20 different years of visiting the halls of
DC and kind of reminding themwhat it is that we do and how we
do we enjoyed it.
We enjoyed telling our story.
Absolutely.
So when you're there, whenyou're there, because now you're
the veterans now.
We we we're going there.
What kind of message are youletting the legislative know?
(24:30):
When you go to visit, you'resaying, This is my industry,
this is what we do, this is howwe are.
What kind of message are youtelling them when you get in
there and you finally have thatchance to sit down and just have
that conversation?
SPEAKER_02 (24:40):
We usually sit down and first off, right off the
bat, try to figure out wherethis person is we're talking to.
Where are they in the scale interms of understanding our
transaction?
We either explain thetransaction or we make sure that
they understand, if they knowthe transaction, that that our
customers are valuable, that ourcustomers like our product, like
our transaction, and we need tokeep that product to them.
(25:01):
It's it's a very different uh DCtoday is very different than
what it used to be.
We used to tell a story to keepstay in business.
Now we tell a story just toexplain what the transaction is
to the people that we're talkingto so they understand it.
It's not the urgency and thefear isn't there.
(25:23):
Um, it is really just aneducation, making sure that they
understand what our transactionis and that their constituents
use it.
SPEAKER_01 (25:31):
It's it's one of those things that I've just
started getting into.
So my this last year was mysecond year.
And uh thank God that I get togo in with people such as
yourself who were able to mentorme and say, hey, you know, Pete,
just kind of stand right thereand just figure it out.
And in, you know, in theprocess, we do get to speak.
You know, there's everybody hasa story to tell because you
know, a lot of things happen indifferent ways.
(25:53):
The way I see one story, and wecould all be in the same area,
you might see it completelydifferently.
So we we kind of share our storyand what we've been through and
what we've seen.
And um, you know, it's justamazing to see somebody's
experience throughout the yearsand have that confidence to talk
to people that I didn't think Iwould ever see, you know, and
sit in the same room with thepeople that I see on CNN going,
(26:13):
This is a business that Ibelieve in.
This is a business that I careabout.
And there are times, you know,whether it be Henry B.
Gonzalez or whether it be wehave vendors who just really
don't understand what we'redoing and we're they're kind of
reluctant to get on board withthat.
Um, and you know, trying tobreak through those barriers.
Was there any one of those timeswhere you had you come across
vendors like, I don't understandwhat you're doing, and I'm just
(26:33):
gonna kind of hold off on ituntil I know better?
SPEAKER_00 (26:37):
I don't think so.
Uh I think that they were alwaysuh They were always trying to
sell the product.
SPEAKER_02 (26:43):
So it didn't matter.
It didn't matter.
SPEAKER_00 (26:51):
Get educated.
And they would visit uh theirlegislators.
And uh I I always thought thatthe vendors were a great asset
because that was they were partof the economy, uh and the
legislators are always concernedabout the economy.
(27:12):
And and and so it was it wasjust a big team working to have
people understand our industryand um and and and to know that
people that were uh against ourindustry just hadn't really
(27:33):
talked to the customer that wasusing our product.
SPEAKER_02 (27:37):
You know, early we Cynthia and our fortunate in
that uh early in our businesscareer, we got involved with
state and federal government.
Cynthia and I started the umMississippi Rental Dealer
Association, now called Alamis,Alabama Mississippi Rental
Dealer Association, and we werethe ones that took the bill up
(28:00):
to Jackson, Mississippi, to getthe transaction defined on a
state level.
So that process was reallyeducational to us.
You know, working with thelobbyists, better understanding
how it worked, because that wasthe just a micro it was just a
small version of what washappening on the federal level.
So we got lucky in early in ourcareer messing with this stuff.
(28:22):
And so we had a very differentview of these meetings and how
it worked in D.C.
as well as on the state level.
SPEAKER_00 (28:29):
And Mississippi uh was one of the first states that
we were able to get arent-to-law, rent-to-own law
passed.
Okay.
And so when we got it passed, uhthen you felt comfortable.
Um and when we got enoughstates, uh it seemed that uh the
(28:51):
gov the national governmentbegan to not be so concerned
about it.
SPEAKER_02 (28:57):
It it actually became a problem.
And you know, people would askus when we told them we have
states in 47, we have laws in 47states.
They were like, then why why areyou worried about this?
Why are you worried about a an afederal bill, a national
transaction?
And so in some ways, we were sosuccessful at the state levels
that caused us some grief on afederal level.
SPEAKER_01 (29:20):
So he's a little bit different.
There's been a lot of peoplesaying we should get that
federal law passed so that wecan be covered everywhere and
all.
Uh, and Edwin has always said,you know, it would be great, but
number one, it's gonna take alot.
And number two, you might notwant the federal government
looking at the business the waythe state does, because each
state is a little bit different.
(29:40):
They're a little bit easier todeal with, it's just here, it's
not everywhere.
When you start getting into theeverywhere, you have a lot.
SPEAKER_02 (29:46):
We had our local congressmen, the the the the
some of them were friends ofours, said you need to be
careful what you're asking for.
That's exactly what he said.
SPEAKER_01 (29:54):
He said those exact words.
He said, you know, you mightwant to be careful what you
asked for.
Because if you get that law, youmight be in a whole different
arena with a lot of differentplayers.
And so, you know, it's alwaysthose thoughts that how do we
get here?
You know, how do we do this?
You said Mississippi was one ofthe first few that came on.
Um, how active were you guys inin that, or how active were you
(30:16):
in that Mississippi law that gotthat got passed?
SPEAKER_02 (30:19):
We were the ones that that caused.
I mean, I was president at thetime of the state association.
We were the ones that drove thetrain.
SPEAKER_01 (30:26):
What you you were part of a state law that was
passed to help regulate rent toown, make it profitable, but
make it understandable that weare we are held to a certain you
know decorum for our customers,for ourselves, and what we do.
That's right.
What do you think about this lawthat's going on in New York
right now?
SPEAKER_00 (30:48):
You always have to worry because uh if you get uh
several states that start tochange their law, uh make it
different, uh sometimes it itcan be different in a good way,
and other times it can bedifferent in a very bad way.
SPEAKER_02 (31:07):
There's always fear that you have you have unsavory
pieces of uh legislation thatgoes through in our industry,
that it'll go to other statesand it'll start becoming
something.
I mean, I'm not saying thatwould happen, but you know, New
York's kind of wild out thereanyway.
But but that is the fear to it,is that if it's successful one
place, it may be successfulelse.
SPEAKER_01 (31:26):
Well, I I know that you used a word earlier that
really kind of caught me, andthat was complacent.
Um, and that's one thing that wejust can't afford to do right
now.
Cannot because I agree with youjust the same.
It only takes one domino, justone, and you'll see the rest
change.
SPEAKER_02 (31:44):
That's right.
SPEAKER_01 (31:44):
And it's you know, it's one of those situations
like I definitely understand whythey're concerned because
they're concerned about theirconstituents and don't want to
make the Right call.
But doing that in it from anuneducated standpoint can really
make a problem for the rest.
And we're trying to stay out ofthe federal arena unless we
really have to.
We're regulated highly in a lotof the states that we're in.
(32:05):
And now all of a sudden we couldbe back in that arena again.
And it's one of those we'vereally got to get together and
make sure that we're on top ofthat so that we can keep on
doing business like we have beenfor years and years and years.
So what's coming up?
What's coming up next in theindustry?
What would you say that's comingup next for yourselves, but for
(32:26):
the industry as a whole,something that's on the horizon
that you're looking at as in thenext few years is coming down
the pipe, this is the directionwe need to go in?
SPEAKER_00 (32:36):
I think that um we are presently we are on the
right path.
But if if we are not consciousof every little change that a
state may make, uh it could be aproblem.
(32:56):
And we need to be very careful.
I'm so glad to have a programlike this because uh I it is a
vehicle to get uh theinformation to our newer members
who don't who've never gonethrough any of these hard times.
SPEAKER_01 (33:18):
Well, it it has been a little while, right?
And unfortunately, sometimes uhtimes in great peace, we forget
why we have the peace and thesacrifices that were made by the
people ahead of us, such asyourselves kind of going through
some of the implementations ofthat time frame and going, you
know, we've got to go throughthe Henry B.
Gonzalez's, we have to go to thestate legislator, we have to go
(33:39):
to the legal conferences everysingle year to remind them what
we do and how we do it.
You know, so saying that thatyou think that that might be
coming up next, to just makesure that we keep a fine-tuned
fork on what's going on next.
SPEAKER_02 (33:54):
You you asked that question, and it's it's hard for
me not to think about risks inour business that we'll have to
deal with.
And so I remember early on whenwe were talking about the
rent-owned transaction and whatconstitutes rent own and at what
point does it become a saleversus rent own?
And there's some percentage,some number that was arbitrary.
(34:17):
I don't remember what it was.
But I look at the I look for theexample of the RR transaction.
The RR transaction, you know, weoffer a six-month same as cash,
and 50% of our customers pay offthe agreement within six months.
So our purchase option,including going all the way to
the very end, is probably in the70 percentile.
(34:42):
And I don't know where thatchanges and says, well, that's
really not rent-owned.
That's a concern of mine.
SPEAKER_01 (34:48):
You know, watching and and and and feeding off you
guys and just seeing howinvolved you have been, I am
curious who were the who wassomeone or a few people who were
your mentors, people who kind ofinfluenced you, helped you
along, gave you that guidinglight in a dark tunnel in the
beginning, or maybe now thatyou've kind of relied on, really
(35:10):
more so in the beginning, butyou know, who was somebody or a
few people that kind of reallyhelped you be mentors to you and
guided you to where you aretoday?
SPEAKER_02 (35:19):
I think both of us will answer this question
differently.
I I don't know her answer, butfor me, there's really a couple
people that had a significant umuh uh impact on our business or
on my on me, on way businessoperated.
And one of them was DarylTissett, um, Mike Tissett's
father, and another one is DavidBlevins.
(35:42):
David, those two people we wouldalways saddle up with when we'd
go to April conventions or RT oruh legislative conferences and
communicate and talk and and youknow steal whatever's whatever
they're willing to offer out oftheir head.
Um so those there were and therewere there were plenty others.
(36:02):
I'm sure there are people thatI'm forgetting, but but those
two people have passed and theycome to mind.
SPEAKER_01 (36:10):
Daryl Tissett and David Blevins.
Right, big, big names, big namesin the RTR world.
How about yourself?
SPEAKER_00 (36:17):
Uh the same.
I was involved with with thosethose two.
Uh Gary Farriman.
He started off.
He is a favorite.
SPEAKER_01 (36:28):
I'm telling you, he pops up.
I told you know what's funny,and I don't mean to erupt.
I apologize.
I was talking to Gary the otherday, and I said, Gary, I don't
think you realize how manypeople bring your name up in
these conversations that youknow you're just somebody that
they they lean on.
And he seemed so shocked.
Um not uncommon.
It it's actually almost theuncommon part would be not to
(36:50):
mention his name.
He comes up in so many differentlevels.
And, you know, I was really gladto see him take an award.
I'm really glad to know thathe's really been that
influential.
But you know, please carry on.
I just wanted you mention Garybecause he he has done so many
things for this industry,including helping some of our
leadership get to where theyare, at least get through
certain times where you're like,I need some advice.
(37:10):
I need something, Gary.
Help me out, you know.
And he just does a great job.
SPEAKER_00 (37:14):
He is he's a wonderful man and he's a quiet
man.
Uh, so I think that may be onereason he doesn't uh come out.
I'm gonna get it done.
He just has gotten it donequietly.
SPEAKER_01 (37:29):
You know, listening is a superpower.
Yeah.
He does it very well.
Yeah, he does.
I wish I did it better than hedoes.
I am not, I am not doing it aswell as he didn't know.
SPEAKER_00 (37:38):
Great and the ones that Shannon mentioned, you
know, that they were just alwaysthere and working hard.
They were always free advice.
SPEAKER_02 (37:46):
I mean, they're willing to talk to you about
anything.
SPEAKER_01 (37:49):
So going back to early days, we have some of the
things we run into and some ofthe things that we come across,
people that have helped us out.
But I remember in the late 80s,our point of sale software
wasn't all that great, kind ofneeded a little bit of a revamp.
Was there something that youguys got or started using that
(38:12):
helped you?
I don't want to say 21st centurynow, but the 20th century that
really kind of got the ballrolling.
I know high touch was a bigthing back then, a certain point
in time.
What did you guys use and howwell did it translate you from,
let's say, the early 80s goinginto the 90s and maybe the
2000s?
SPEAKER_02 (38:29):
When I started, we didn't have computers.
Green bar?
We did you have green bar?
Was it green bar the stripyou're talking about?
SPEAKER_01 (38:38):
The cards, posting cards?
Yeah.
Is that what you're talkingabout?
Well, the green bar that we hadwould come out on a dot matrix
printer.
SPEAKER_00 (38:43):
Oh no, no, no.
SPEAKER_02 (38:44):
We didn't have a computer.
SPEAKER_00 (38:45):
We hadn't have a computer.
SPEAKER_02 (38:47):
We had, we had little, we had sheet.
Posting cards.
Posting.
So you used the little carbonstrip, you laid the you laid the
customer, you go through thecard box, find the customer, lay
the customer's card down, putthe receipt over the top of it,
had carbon on the back, andyou'd write down their receipt
and it would post.
It's called a posting card.
As a matter of fact, if you talkto old, older, not old, but if
(39:09):
you talk to older rent-to-ownedpeople, people who have been in
the industry a long time, theyused the term card close.
Are you familiar with that?
I still use card clothes.
SPEAKER_01 (39:16):
I use my guys look at me all the time.
Do you know why?
SPEAKER_02 (39:22):
You would take the cards and the ones that were
late, you'd put over here, andhere were the ones and you buy
them.
That's exactly right.
Card clothes.
So um that when I started,that's what we had.
We didn't have computers.
SPEAKER_00 (39:32):
But that was shortly after we did get computers.
SPEAKER_02 (39:36):
No, we didn't get computers.
Yeah, you're talking aboutcomputers came shortly after I
got here.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So we started getting intocomputers in the 80 in 89.
In 89, we started puttingcomputers in our tracks, was the
software we used.
And so it changed, of course, itchanged the way we did the
business.
And um we, you know, we we usedthat software, some old
(40:00):
software.
We used that software for years.
And when we moved to Versorant,of course, that process was very
painful, but when moved toBerserrent, it that change
changed the way we operated.
It became so much easier for amanager to become to do a
manager, be a manager and lesswork for them.
(40:22):
And um, and the home office datathat we collected from it was
invaluable.
So that was a the the changingof that software to something
that was more centralized was ahuge change for us.
Before that, uh we didn't haveconsolidated info worth a flip.
SPEAKER_01 (40:39):
Do you think that that transition, the amount of
knowledge, the amount ofavailability to speak kind of
overlook your business, was thata transitional point where you
were able to grow because ofthat?
SPEAKER_02 (40:50):
Yeah, we went through for us, it was a very
painful process to changesoftware.
We didn't do it well.
But once we got past it threeyears later or so, then the
answer to your question is yes.
We changed the way we operated.
It changed, caused us enough, itgave us the ability to change
lots of processes and policieson the way we operated and we
could see the results of it.
SPEAKER_01 (41:11):
And it makes it so much easier to be able to go in
and and and kind of forecast thenext few months when you have
the data coming from frombehind.
SPEAKER_02 (41:19):
That's right.
So yeah, you didn't have to waituntil you talk to somebody.
You came in the next morning andit was there.
And now it's there.
SPEAKER_01 (41:26):
It was there, you can pull it off the printer and
kind of look at it or get it inyour emails.
So as we go through things likethis, where we sit down and we
talk to people just asyourselves who have been in this
industry for years, almostgenerationally at some point.
Do you have anybody that's fullfilling in those blanks?
Do you have children that aregoing to be a part of this
industry?
SPEAKER_02 (41:44):
All three children uh work for the company.
SPEAKER_01 (41:47):
Absolutely.
All right.
So then you've got three thatare uh do they plan on taking
over at some point in time?
They do.
SPEAKER_02 (41:52):
They plan on staying.
When we're dead and gone, theyplan on staying working for the
company.
SPEAKER_00 (41:56):
That's right.
They are, they are in fact, hewas he was ill not too long ago,
and we were both had to be outof the office for a long time,
and we were worried about howthey were going to do, and they
did beautifully.
SPEAKER_01 (42:14):
They showed up.
SPEAKER_00 (42:15):
They they were there, and they they would meet
every Friday, uh, have breakfastand discuss how they were gonna
get through that.
SPEAKER_02 (42:25):
When we hired them, they knew it was a real job and
that they had to show up everyday and they had to perform, had
to perform, or they wouldn'thave a job.
SPEAKER_01 (42:35):
They didn't have a cushion job.
So what would you say?
And I know they're family, soit's it's kind of like a little
bit of a different thing here,but what would you say to the
next management, whether it befamily or not, that's coming
around a corner and taking upsome of the positions that we
have?
We have a lot of 40-year legendsthat are kind of get to that
point where it's, I need to passthis torch.
(42:56):
I might not be out of italtogether, but it's that time
where I can pass a torch tosomebody else.
You know, Gary Ferriman, uh,obviously one that we're talking
about, Mike Tissett from Daryl,you know, one of the things that
we talk about.
You know, when you when you lookat these situations, what is
something that you would sayfrom yourselves and go, Shannon
Cynthia think that if you knowthis or if you follow this or if
(43:20):
you do this, this is the bestadvice that I think we can give
you to give you as much successfor the next 20 or 30 or 40
years that you do it.
SPEAKER_02 (43:29):
Forecast positively and believe in your people.
Believe your people can do whatyou're forecasting.
I mean, the the when I look atthe variances in the businesses
and the models, when somebody isconservative and fearful, that
business doesn't grow anywhereclose to when somebody somebody
puts their two cents out thereand says, we're gonna do this,
(43:51):
and then they put actions inplace to achieve that.
That is the single mostimportant part of business in my
book.
SPEAKER_00 (44:07):
I think the hardest thing is if you were to force
them and just push them to takeover a company that they really
don't want to.
But ours all love it.
Some of them started off as uhthey would file papers and clean
(44:28):
bathrooms.
SPEAKER_02 (44:29):
I was gonna say they all went through this life of
cleaning bathrooms.
SPEAKER_00 (44:32):
So it was uh w we started them out with the worst
jobs so that they wouldappreciate uh what had it had
built into.
SPEAKER_01 (44:43):
To make sure you don't get into this and not
really love it organically.
That's right.
Absolutely.
I completely agree.
So going into the end, goinginto rounding all this up, you
know, something that April wantsto know, I want to know.
I'm curious.
We can't always mold our the waythat people have looked at us,
(45:04):
right?
The legacy that we left.
It's really done by what we didand then looked at by the people
around us, right?
They are gonna tell us what theythink of the legacy that we
left.
What do you think somebody'sgonna say about the Baby Strunk
legacy as you guys have gottento a point where you got the
children involved?
At some point in time, I wouldimagine that they're gonna take
(45:26):
over.
And what is a legacy that youwant to pass on or or say that
you feel like you've done topass on?
SPEAKER_02 (45:34):
I really hope that we really concentrated on the
customer first and then theemployee next, because that
cycle is what keeps thatbusiness thriving.
And we do.
We concentrate very heavily on agreat customer experience, but
(45:55):
our employees are paramount tous.
Think of us as a reversetriangle.
Cynthia and I are at the bottom.
Turn the triangle over, we're atthe bottom.
And so I we put our employeesabove us in a heartbeat, and we
we actually do.
So I'm hoping that's the waythey viewed it, and that they
didn't view it any other way.
SPEAKER_00 (46:15):
Uh, they should always remember that the
customer is what uh makes yourcompany continue.
SPEAKER_01 (46:22):
Well, they're the one, they're the one employee
that can fire us all.
That's right.
That's right.
You know, that's some sense tosay that's been coming up
lately, and it and it God knowsit's true.
I really appreciate you guysbeing here.
Guys, I appreciate you watching.
So we got Cynthia Baber Strunk,we got Shannon Strunk, legends
in the business over 40 years,and just about everything they
can do from starting thebusiness to actually being
(46:44):
advocates in APRO and kind ofhelping us get to where we are,
whether it be legally orfinancially, with 17 RRs.
And how many other businesses doyou have?
How many stores do you have alltogether?
SPEAKER_02 (46:55):
Well, we we we sold the Baber stores.
So you sold them?
Sold them in 2019.
SPEAKER_00 (46:59):
They're still a part of APRO.
SPEAKER_01 (47:00):
So it's just the is this the RR stores now?
SPEAKER_02 (47:02):
Just R's.
We have some other businesses,but we've sold those.
We're concentrating 100% of oureffort now on RR.
SPEAKER_01 (47:08):
Well, I'm not going to argue because red zone is
what we do.
That's right.
We really appreciate them beinghere.
We appreciate you guys watching.
I'm so glad that you guys werehere to be able to share this
with me.
Listen, if you guys have anyquestions, please hit up the
show at pet at thertoshowpodcast.com.
Ask me anything you like,including anything for them.
And if it's good, I will makesure that they get an answer for
you.
Make sure that you follow us onFacebook and Instagram,
(47:29):
LinkedIn, and now YouTube whereyou can see this.
So make sure you subscribe.
Hit us up on the podcast and theDMs.
Guys, I'm really, reallyappreciate that you've been
here.
I am so glad that you were ableto take part in the Legends
series because you guys togetherare unique, as in You're Married
and Legends Together, bothpresidents, both done a great
job for this industry.
And I will tell you guys, Ireally, really, really
(47:50):
appreciate you being here.
I really appreciate you beingpart of this.
And I will tell you guys, asalways, make sure you get your
collections low to get yoursales high.
Have a great one.
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