August 25, 2025 • 58 mins
Step into the heart of the rent-to-own industry as we broadcast live from RTO World 2025, surrounded by the energy and innovation of the biggest gathering in the sector. This episode brings together key industry leaders to discuss the transformative forces reshaping how rent-to-own businesses operate, advocate, and market themselves.
Michael Wall, Senior Director of Corporate Affairs at Aaron's, shares how their recent acquisition by IQ Ventures has freed the company to focus on long-term growth rather than quarterly earnings. He explains how Aaron's modernized store design creates a more dignified shopping experience while highlighting the critical importance of industry advocacy at both federal and state levels.
The conversation takes a serious turn as Jeff Smith, President of the New York Rental Dealers Association, details the legislative battle unfolding in Albany. Proposed legislation threatens to fundamentally mischaracterize the RTO transaction by imposing APR caps on lease agreements. This fight exemplifies why industry advocacy matters – RTO provides essential access to household necessities for consumers with limited options, and misguided regulation could eliminate this vital service.
Marketing expert Andrew Hajduk delivers perhaps the most surprising insights, revealing how consumer "digital fatigue" is driving successful RTO operators back to community-based marketing strategies. While everyone rushes toward AI and digital solutions, hyperlocal approaches like door hangers, community involvement, and chamber of commerce participation are showing remarkable results. His observation that print marketing has a "slower decay rate" than digital ads challenges conventional wisdom about where marketing dollars should flow.
The thread connecting these diverse topics is adaptation – how an industry with deep roots is evolving to meet changing consumer needs while fighting misconceptions about its services. From corporate restructuring to legislative battles and marketing innovation, this episode captures how rent-to-own is positioning itself for future growth while staying true to its mission of providing flexible options for consumers.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Hello and welcome to the RTO show.
I'm your host, pete Chow.
Listen for anybody who doesn'tknow what's going on right here.
We are actually live at RTOWorld 2025.
I'm with the award winner overhere, right?
The award winner, charlesSmitherman, ceo, phd.
He's got more backstory thananybody I know, right.
I just want to know I wanted toknow, charles, before we get
(00:29):
started how come we don't callyou doctor?
I feel like I'm doing you adisservice by not calling him
doctor.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Well, so that's a funny story, because my brother
actually is a doctor.
He's a real doctor.
I'm the guy that if there's anemergency on an airplane, you do
not and you say is there adoctor on board?
You do not want to call me.
We call physicists doctors, andyou know what?
It was one of those things.
Once I got it, I never wantedto use it.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
He's like you know what, if I can't object, it
doesn't matter.
So today, listen, we have agreat show for everybody here.
There's live going on allbehind us.
You're not going to see that inthis video, but there is
everything going on out there.
Right now we have one of ourfirst interviewees here, michael
Waldman.
Introduce him in a second, butfirst we've got to talk about
the dunk contest, and I say thatloosely because it's actually a
(01:22):
water dunk contest.
So how does April?
Why does that matter to April?
What are we doing with that andwhat does it?
Speaker 2 (01:29):
help.
Well, so you know, last year wesubjected our entire
association to our karaoke, sowe had to find out a better way
that would be less damaging forthem.
You know, we're looking forways to raise money for the APRO
Charitable Foundation,particularly the scholarship
fund, and so we're looking for anew way to do it.
(01:50):
So this year we're going to beover at the ballpark and we
tried to make it as much of abaseball theme, and so you add
one and one together and we geta dunk.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
What more baseball themed than dunking somebody in
the tank?
Right, and it's for a goodcause, everybody.
Just so that you're aware rightnow, if you donate to the APRO
Disaster Relief Fund, this guy,along with like five others, are
going to go in the water if wehit $10,000.
So that means you've got to doit and that guy over there
You've got to make sure thatthey get dunked.
So right now, the participantsare Mike Kays, Mike Tissett, Dan
(02:21):
Fisher, Kevin Silvers and, ourfavorite, Charles.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Smitherman is in there, all right.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
So throws are available for donations Right
now.
I just wanted to talk to aboutthe sponsors of the RTO show.
So, apro, bring the premiersponsor.
Thank you for being here.
I got Jeff way over there.
He's kind of like gettingintent on getting ready to go.
But you know, apro does a greatjob in helping us get through
to the real part of what's goingon, and that's everybody here
(02:48):
making sure that they understandnot only how to do better, how
to be better and how to getbetter One way or another,
whether it's community, whetherit's being in your showroom,
whether it's talking to some ofthe legends that we have walking
around.
It is absolutely amazing to dothat.
Also, we've got Wow Brands, nowa official platinum sponsor,
gerard Norman Marketing.
I got honorary sponsors JLRAmerica.
Hopefully we can get Aaron's inthere sometime.
Speaker 4 (03:11):
I don't know, one of these days We'll see how this
goes.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
So we're going to talk about our guests really,
really quick.
So the first guest that I havetoday is Michael Wall.
He's going to introduce himself.
He's from Aaron's.
I got Andrew Hajdu up next.
He's talking about somemarketing, what's going on in
the future, what's happeningwith us and how we can kind of
pull from what's going onoutside of the rent-to-own
source to make what we're doingbetter yeah, which I'm really
(03:35):
looking forward to that.
And then we've got Jeff Smith,who's going to tell us all about
the legal situation up in NewYork.
He's going to talk to us abouthometown rentals.
He's going to talk to us aboutbeing president of the NYRDA.
We've got a lot to talk about.
So we're going to start withMichael Wall.
How you doing, mike.
Good Pete, thanks for having meon the show, all right, so a
(03:59):
little bit that we wanted toknow.
Let's talk about you.
What's your current role inAarons and how did you get there
?
Speaker 4 (04:08):
Sure, so, pete.
I'm the Senior Director ofCorporate Affairs at Aarons.
That means my team and Ioversee our government relations
, corporate communications andour corporate meetings and
events, so basically theexternal affairs, if you will,
for the company.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
So just to make sure, when you go out you're the face
.
Speaker 4 (04:28):
You got it.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
So it's like errands, and then they have the thing,
and then they have MichaelWall's face next to it.
Is that like the trademarksymbol?
It's pretty close.
And the dog.
Don't forget the dog.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
What's that?
Speaker 4 (04:38):
And the dog.
Don't forget the dog.
Oh yes, of course, oh yes ofcourse, lucky Dog is definitely
the mascot of the company.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Totally understandable.
So you know, as we were talking, there was a couple of things
that we wanted to kind of goover, because there's been a lot
of good change going on, aaron,I mean there's been that you
know.
Now that you're the face, Imean you get to really kind of
embody what's going on and saywe've made some big changes,
we've done that.
(05:04):
Did you want to talk about that, or should I shoot into that?
Speaker 4 (05:08):
Yeah, sure.
So I mean I think it's wellknown now, especially in our
space here as we sit here liveat the show.
You know we were acquired by IQVentures in October of 2024.
And really that acquisition hasgiven the company and our
management team the freedom tofocus on the things that really
(05:29):
drive the business, gives theman opportunity to look at
investments three to five yearsdown the road versus looking at
the next quarter right, andbeing able to really fuel growth
in the company.
It's been exciting.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Is there a real big difference between shareholders
and just being independentlyowned.
Does it make it so?
In other words, it's like, doesit make the transition to
making decisions a little biteasier, a little bit faster,
Like you said, looking three tofive years down the road and
going.
That's where we want to be,that's the focus we want to have
.
Speaker 4 (06:00):
So that's a little above my pay grade at the
company, thank goodness.
But we've got a great group offolks who are running the
company and our C-suite.
We've got a fantastic board andeveryone is energized and
excited about growing Aaron'sand really getting out there and
spending time with ourcustomers, spending time with
our franchisees, our employees,looking for ways where we can in
(06:24):
fact change the way we think,act and win in the market.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
And speaking of board , michael is one of our newest
board members on the APRO board,so we're excited to bring
Michael on board and reallycontinue Aaron's presence,
because they bring so much tothe association.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
We're actually on the podcast now.
Yes, gopal just stopped by.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Gopal Reddy, one of our great franchisees at Aaron's
.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Why don't you come in the camera and say, hello, come
on, sit down.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
Gopal, who just won the Heritage Award.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
So after years of slaving away at this industry
and doing everything you can toput back.
Somebody said, hey, we betterrecognize this guy, we better
give him a darn award and lethim know we love him.
We appreciate everything thatyou've done.
In case they haven't said it,we do appreciate it, yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Well deserved.
You go, Paul.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
So now we got all kinds of attendees and board
people up here and everything.
So, with what happened, we makethat transition.
There was also something elsethat happened.
Aaron's was looking at makingthis.
I don't want to say an ai model, but there was this model where
it was very streamlined smaller, smaller, uh, square footage,
but yet you have the ability toengage your customers
(07:40):
electronically through online um, making it very quick.
How was that transit Like?
What was the purpose behindthat?
Speaker 4 (07:47):
Yeah, so I think you're speaking more to the Gen
Next model.
Yes, so some of those storeswere larger in footprint, but
mostly what I would say is thegoal there was more modern
shopping experience, more sobrighter stores, uh, cleaner
footprints, like just realmodern integrated technology, so
(08:09):
that it would make the shoppingexperience, the retail
experience, smoother and moreengaging for the customer so and
maybe I'm sorry if I said thatwrong, because I did say smaller
, but like what was differentabout those showrooms in a
traditional show?
Speaker 1 (08:23):
so they're, they're big and bright, which which is
great, but was there somethingspecifically different that you
can say that model is not thesame model that we've been
following.
Speaker 4 (08:38):
Well, I'll just say that our Gen X model, first of
all, was received very well bycustomers and it's really been
an overwhelming positivefeedback.
Now, part of what we do atAaron's and I think everyone
here does this is everything isconstantly evolving and so what
we are doing right now in thatsame space.
So, you're not wrong, becausewe are looking at smaller
footprints, we are looking atlighter capital expenditures,
(09:00):
right.
So how can we make thatcustomer experience better?
Right?
So how can we make thatcustomer experience better?
How can we lean in there andalso make it attractive for
franchisees, right, so moreattractive from the financial
perspective, so that we cancontinue to expand and grow in a
more flexible, efficient way.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Nobody really comes into a franchise to lose money,
right.
I mean everybody's like how canyou make me some money?
Right, and I'll tell you, pete.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
I've had the chance to tour a couple of those stores
, those Gen X stores.
They are incredible, they'renice, they've got a great
footprint, it feels like you'rein a rooms to go type of
location.
And just some great technologytoo, with all the with the
touchpads and the.
That's right's right.
Speaker 4 (09:43):
Yeah, online application process and really
I'll just say this too the goalis to make it a more dignified
shopping experience.
We want those consumers to comein, feel at home, feel like
there's a lot of natural lightand modern.
Matt, you're welcome to come dothis You're welcome to come do
(10:04):
this man.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
I got a face for radio.
Come on, help me out.
Sit in with this guy, give hima help.
I'm sorry go ahead.
Speaker 4 (10:15):
No, you're good, I couldn't pass Matt up.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
He just had this face when he was walking by.
Speaker 4 (10:19):
You're good.
You're good, but my role,that's a lot of our business
management.
That's what they focus on everyday and that's great, because I
need them to focus on thatevery day.
What I focus on for the companyis our advocacy, making sure
that we're out there at thefederal level and the state
level.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
I'm so glad you said that, because that's actually
something Charles is superpassionate about.
I saw it on stage earlier,charles, I'm not going to say
anything, but I did see thatpassion come out of Charles and
it does.
So how do you feel about theway Michael's brought his form
of advocacy with Aaron's to whatwe do in DC?
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Well, I'll personally say this I've learned a lot
from Michael.
I mean, michael's a pro at this, he's experienced with it.
He's a great asset for Aaron's,he's going to be a great asset
for our board and what he knowsand all that knowledge he brings
to me or brings to the APROboard.
Michael and I have spent sometime together in meetings and
(11:18):
it's always fun to watch himoperate.
I'm taking notes myself on howto improve and how to share, but
Michael's a pro and we're luckyto have him.
Aaron's just lucky to have him.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
I'm going to tell you right now man, you're kind of
laid back.
You guys got to understand.
He's got a great smile, he'sall loose and he's sitting here
at the podcast.
He's like I got to make surethat I just deliver my lines.
But no, listen, what you do,not only for Aaron's, but what
you do as an advocate for thisindustry, being the face that
(11:50):
you are putting the attentionthat you do on it, we appreciate
that.
He appreciates that he might notbe able to give you a big old
hug from the other side of thetable but I know he wants to,
but like we need that you knowand it's not that anybody else
out there is not big enough.
But when you talk about the bigthree, it's always Rack, aarons
(12:10):
and Buddies, and to have theminvolved and included in this on
a regular basis means a lot,because that's a lot of
representation for us, that's alot of representation for APRO.
You know, to sit there and saythis is not just something we do
every once in a while or westop by once a year.
You're there all the time,which is something I want to
talk about, because you got togo back soon, oh yes.
Speaker 4 (12:30):
Well, it's August recess.
I will be headed back to DC inSeptember for a trip there.
You know, one thing I'll justshare is it's so important to be
involved and plugged into atrade organization, an
association like APRO, andAaron's has always been here and
will always be here, because weknow speaking with a collective
(12:51):
voice is much more powerfulthan doing it on our own.
But it's important.
We need that.
We need the relationships atthe federal level Absolutely,
and we need them at the stateand local level.
It doesn't need to stop just inDC, because we have to remember
we are creatures of statelegislatures.
There are 47 state statutes outthere, right, there are 47
(13:11):
states that have RTO specificstatutes that govern our
business, and it's importantthat we're there and we're
engaged and we're listening andfollowing the policy
conversations and thedevelopments, because if we are
not, it will be noticed, and wesaw that very clearly this year
and last year in New York.
(13:31):
So we've had to go up there andmake sure we can educate about
what is the RTO transaction.
How do we afford consumersflexibility without creating
debt obligation, without youknow creating debt obligation?
What are ways in which we helpthem along during the lease
process and the journey right sothat, like when they find
themselves in a hardship, we'reable to be there to help them
(13:54):
through it right With a payment,vacation or whatnot.
That's important to tell thatstory because, let's face it,
nothing's getting cheaper thesedays and so as those essential
goods climb in cost, we have toremember that it's our purpose
to be there to tell the story.
Make sure that our lawmakersand our staffers up there
(14:14):
understand that and hear it fromus and give that story some air
, give it some life, make surethey understand the reality and
the people behind it.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
Now we know why he's the face right.
Exactly there you go.
You do a great job at that.
You do a great job, Charles, ifwe're having some.
First off, are you guys bothlawyers?
Speaker 4 (14:38):
Yes, but I don't play one for the company I'm in
between a lot of legalrepresentation here.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
I just want to say that out loud.
There's a lot of legality inthis.
Speaker 4 (14:49):
Fortunately, I have a great legal staff and a great
legal department and I get topitch a lot of hard questions
their way and they help mefigure out what we're going to
say back to our regulators.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
So let me ask you a question.
With the legal background andyou being in DC all the time and
I love that you're therebecause I think you have the
personality for it but what madethem decide that you were the
person to represent this part ofthe company?
You know, we got this lawyerand he does a great job.
He does a good job at April.
He does a good job.
You know what.
You're the guy.
Speaker 4 (15:21):
Well, that's easy.
They hired me for it so theyknew what they wanted and I fit
the job description, so theyhired me for it.
But I will say we spend just asmuch time following state
action and state developments aswe do federal, and the reason
for that is because the pace,the speed at which an idea
becomes a law is so quick at thestate level and it has
(15:43):
sometimes immediate operationalimpact.
I mean, they go from definingthe transaction to determining
what's in your lease agreement,to what's acceptable disclosure.
All of that matters right, andso it's important to stay
involved and engaged at thestate level as well.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
So, when you go up there.
So when you go up there, areyou going up there for the New
York situation as well?
Speaker 4 (16:09):
Yes, we've all been there, we've all been there, and
that's the third time.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
If nobody knows, we've all been there.
Speaker 4 (16:16):
In February in Albany , New York, for a guy who's from
Tennessee and lives in Atlanta.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
Shows my dedication to the industry and I've got to
go to Albany, New York.
So what I'm going to do is theindustry and I've got to go to
Albany, New York.
So what I'm going to do is thenext time that I get a ticket, I
just want to know who to call.
No, I'm just kidding.
What I want to say is like-.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
Not me.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
Not the kind of lawyer, pete.
But what I will say is wereally appreciate that Now,
making that transition, we'vegot Jeff here.
He was going to go last, but Ithink, because we've been
talking about the legalsituation, I'm going to let you
talk about it a little bit more.
Who's technically spearheadingthis whole thing?
(16:55):
Is that Jeff?
Speaker 5 (16:57):
No, I wouldn't say.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Is it you.
Speaker 5 (17:00):
Charles.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
It's very much a collaborative effort.
We've been basically lots ofstrategy calls with all the
parties involved.
Speaker 4 (17:09):
Our government relations committee is very much
involved in overseeing this,and so it's very much been a
collaborative effort that we'vebeen able to share resources,
share information that we're allgetting from the ground and
we're fortunate to have Jeff'sinvolvement, him really
revitalizing or really bringingbringing back to life the new
york rental dealers associationand I would say it underscores
(17:31):
the importance of the companiesbeing members of their state rda
and paying those dues, because,because we were able to lean in
and and have those duesavailable, jeff was able to go
out and find us a good lobbyingfirm in New York who knows the
process, knows the people and isable to steer us all, I think,
(17:52):
in a direction that's been veryhelpful in educating about this
industry and what we do forconsumers and hopefully
dispelling a lot of themisconceptions that are out
there.
Speaker 5 (18:03):
Well.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
I'm certainly glad that you're up there for us.
How do you feel before we makethat switch over?
Is there anything that you wantto say to Mike before we let
him go?
Speaker 2 (18:13):
No, just thanks for being here, thanks for your
service, thanks for being on theboard and everything you do,
and it's been looking forward tocontinue to do this.
Speaker 4 (18:23):
Thank you, I'm looking forward to it as well,
and I will say this because sheis my boss, rachel George, who's
rolling off the board this yearand I am now being elected to
it.
I have some really big shoes tofill.
Rachel's been, I think, a greatresource to APRO and has the
legal acumen that I do not have,but I am looking forward to
(18:45):
continuing to learn from her inmy role and will continue to
bring that.
While she's stepping off theboard, she's not stepping away,
and so we'll continue to bringeverything we've got at Aarons
to support APRO and its mission.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
I'm going to say, Rachel, if you're listening or
if you're going to listen in thefuture, we appreciate what you
do, we appreciate everything youdo.
Mike, I appreciate you beinghere.
I appreciate you being here.
I appreciate you taking out thetime.
I know it's not always easy,but being able to stop in for a
little bit at least and saying,hi, we do appreciate it.
Up next we're going to haveJeff Smith, All right, so next
up, Jeff Smith.
And I pulled from the crowdMatt because he was trying to
(19:21):
get through here and I'm like no, no, no, no, You've got to come
in and help Jeff out.
He deserves that yeah, so tobring us up to speed if you
haven't heard his stories before, these gentlemen have both been
on the podcast before, kind ofrepresenting not only their
brand-new business, the HometownRentals and Northeast, but,
jeff, now is the sittingpresident of the NYRDA that you
(19:43):
actually brought up andresurrected.
Now was April a part of that?
Speaker 2 (19:49):
We were as part of like a strategic initiative.
We were looking for states thatwere either inactive, weren't
represented, and we reached outto Jeff and Jeff is Jeff.
I'll say this about Jeff Jeffis you.
You could ask him to doanything.
He is going to be there for you.
He's reliable, he's willing,he's a great board member.
Uh, he's served on our boardnow for a year just a year,
(20:11):
which is crazy because of howmuch that he's contributed.
And, um, this New Yorksituation was was exactly it.
Um, uh, he was recognized thattoday and the New York by
winning the Ed Wynn AdvocacyAward for all the work that he's
done and the association's doneup there.
I love seeing Jeff on there.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
He looked even nervous on his own video there's
nobody in the room, but he'ssitting there.
He's like nervous, he's likeeverybody's watching this, so
we're going to start off withsome simple stuff that I think
everybody's interested in.
Everybody wants to know SureRight, tariffs is coming,
whether it's here or not.
You've got these scared peopleworried about what's going on
(20:47):
with the tariffs.
So it hasn't hit, but you'vegot people in fear.
So how is that affecting usright now?
Have you guys seeing areduction in some of the things
that are going on because of thetariffs, or is tariffs
affecting us at all?
Speaker 5 (21:02):
I don't think so, because the 90-day extension
that we got yesterday from Trump, there were some vendors that
were kind of trying to pre-planfor that, assuming that the
tariffs were going to hit andwe're forecasting a price
increase.
But as of yesterday, the pricesheets that all came out today,
or most of the price sheets thatwe're seeing, don't have any
tariffs on them or any priceincreases on them.
(21:24):
So I think, temporarily atleast, we've dodged that, the T
word.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
We call it the T word .
I like that, okay.
So from an APRO standpoint,from a rent-to-own standpoint,
is there anybody to talk to tosay, hey, you know what, I'm not
saying good, bad or indifferent, I'm not here to be an
economist, because I'm not.
I pretend one on TV, but I'mnot and say some things are
great, some things are not?
(21:50):
Is there a forefront to saymaybe the tariffs might not be
good for this industry, or do wefeel like we can take that hit?
Tariffs might not be good forthis industry, or do we feel
like we can take that hit?
We build it into the pricemodel because we take care of
people.
We do deliveries.
You do have, you know, thatability to return when you can't
afford it and we'll take itback out to you with a lifetime
reinstatement.
Is it more that way, or is itmore these tariffs are going to?
It's going to be hard.
Let's figure this out.
Speaker 5 (22:11):
I would say, now more than ever, it makes this
transaction even more valuablethan it's been in the past.
Because of that, if a customeris not ready to commit that
extra, or even if they just wantto wait it out and see, say,
you know, if somebody's payingattention, they see that Trump
just did the 90-day pause withChina and they say well, you
know, I really need thisfurniture.
I'm just going to go rent itfor a couple months, you know,
(22:33):
then I'm not obligated or I'mnot committed to that.
And the other side of that iswe always pass the savings on to
our customers.
The other unfortunate side ofthat coin is we would have to
pass any increase on to ourcustomer as well.
But it's a double-edged sword,but it works both ways, I guess.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
Talking about a double-edged sword, and I'm
going to let you guys talk aboutthis.
We've got some legislation inNew York that's really starting
to kind of linger a lot longerthan it should have.
Now you guys have what?
Two stores in New York and onein Pennsylvania, three in New
York, one in Pennsylvania.
God, you guys are growing.
Like every time I turn aroundit's a new store.
(23:12):
So when you're looking at thisand you know how this is,
because when we're looking atthis, everybody the point is not
that it's just going to affectNew York, which is especially
going to hurt you guys, butwe're talking about this is
something that can affect theNew York state and then be
carried on to another state,which might then cause a domino
effect.
We've got certain states thatare probably a little bit more
liberal in that area.
So we're talking aboutCalifornia, we're talking about
Illinois.
(23:32):
What's going on with that rightnow?
Speaker 2 (23:39):
What's going on with that right now?
Well, fortunately, the sessionended back in June and the bills
that were both pending in bothchambers up there expired
effectively or they died on thevine.
New York's kind of just aninteresting state.
I think we learn more everytime we go up there and talk to
someone about how their processworks.
But the bills are round andthey're not dead yet, and so
(24:00):
we're really continuing to presson getting our messaging out,
getting the word out, reallyfixing these misconceptions and
these really bad talking pointsthat keep mischaracterizing what
we do, mischaracterizing theimportance of what we do and how
important it is for thoseconsumers that utilize our
(24:21):
product and that's growing.
We provide a good option thatexists for a reason and it's
going to continue to growbecause it is a good option and
being able to offer theflexibility that it does, and so
we've just got to keep the footon the gas and providing that
messaging making.
And so we've just got to keepthe foot on the gas and
providing that messaging, makingsure that we're telling and
(24:42):
characterizing it the way thatit actually is and fighting
these misconceptions, becausethat's really the bottom line of
what's happening up there isthat the people that don't
understand what our business ishave confused us with other
financial products out there,new products that may or may not
need to be looked at, but we'regoing up there and saying look,
(25:05):
we've been regulated since 1986in this state.
You revised or amended ourstatute in 2009.
We're here to work with you,but you don't need to throw us
into this big jumbo bill that'sgot all these different things.
It mischaracterizes everythingthat we do and so it's really
just continuing to get thatmessaging.
We're really trying to work onpersonal things.
(25:26):
I think Jeff had someone in hisstore pretty recently.
Speaker 5 (25:29):
Yeah, we're actually.
Senator George Borrella wasdown because he's got.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
Really, he came to the store Yep.
Speaker 5 (25:34):
That's what I'm talking about.
Wait, he came to the store.
Yep, that's what I'm talkingabout.
He's obviously got a vestedinterest.
He's got three stores, or allthree of our stores are in his
district, all along the PA stateline, and he knows, if this
goes through, we're going tomove, you know, two miles, four
miles south, matt, you didn'tscare him out of the store.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
You didn't scare him out of the store.
Get out of here, man.
You're not passing thatlegislation, not in this store.
No, I'm just kidding.
Speaker 5 (25:55):
No, he's definitely on our side and he's a business
owner as well, so he understandswhat we're up against.
And to Charles' point, we'rekind of regrouping and revamping
our message to Albany.
We're trying to humanize thetransaction a little more.
I think they look at us as thebig bad evil empire.
No pun intended for New YorkState with the Yankees, you
(26:17):
didn't throw that in there.
Well, no pun intended for NewYork State with the Yankees, but
the Yankees fan too.
So that makes it easy for me tomake that comparison.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
It's a flaw of all of us.
I'm a.
Speaker 5 (26:23):
Yankees fan I'm good.
I welcome the evil empiremoniker in that situation.
But we're just trying to try toeverything.
Everything we've tried isn'tworking.
So that's why we're trying tohumanize the approach this time
and show them real worldexamples.
I think Larry Carrico said itbest.
You know, we don't sellmattresses, we sell a good
night's sleep.
We don't sell refrigerators, wesell cold milk.
(26:44):
And that's kind of the messagewe're trying to portray to them.
And as we get ready to do ourthird and our fourth trips out
there however many it's going tobe we're kind of learning that
the message we sent the firsttwo times isn't working.
So we're kind of pivoting andgoing to a more human and try to
get some customer testimonialsand get you know kind of some
different messaging out therethat hopefully they're a little
bit more receptive to.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Yeah, and I think I'll add to that.
Look, I mean we're sitting outhere in the corner of this
massive expo hall.
I'm looking at Ashley HomeFurniture right over there.
I'm looking at all these namebrand appliances, tvs,
everything out there.
This is what this industry does.
They're buying here, taking itto stores like Jeff and giving
people the option of obtaininguse of a product, a pathway to
(27:30):
ownership, a flexible optionthat exists.
And look, we just need to tellour story.
We don't have to make anythingup here.
I think if we had those guyssitting here seeing what I'm
looking at right now, with allthese vendors, all these people
walking around and what thistransaction provides up there, I
think there would be a completere-visioning of what they're
(27:51):
trying to do there andunderstand what we do.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
Matt, you think we can invite them over here to sit
down at the podcast.
You think they'll sit.
Speaker 5 (27:58):
I would love for them to come sit with us.
We could chat for days withthis.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
You guys haven't seen Matt.
He's kind of like anintimidating kind of big guy and
I don't know, if they'd come inand sit, we'd have to introduce
you next, we'd have to sit downand then right, pete's.
Speaker 5 (28:15):
Being modest, I'm really 5'9", I'm kidding.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
At heart.
Speaker 5 (28:18):
He's 5'9".
One word Charles didn't mentionwas access.
We're providing access to thesepeople.
You know our customers, ourfriends.
You know they don't have accessto these products otherwise,
like Ashley Furniture or youknow, lg Sustainable Steel
French Store Refrigerator, if wedidn't exist.
They're looking on FacebookMarketplace and buying a fridge
for 100 bucks, hoping it worksand trying to find somebody to
(28:42):
deliver it to them.
So access is another thing thatwe provide.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
So a couple other things that I wanted to talk
about was because we're talkingabout how important it is what
we're doing, accessing the hallsof Albany to make it happen.
But as Mike Wall said, andwe're saying it now, there
wasn't an NYRDA, which, foranybody who doesn't know, that's
the New York Rental DealersAssociation.
They were dormant, kind of gone.
(29:05):
They were, and then Jeff sayshey, matt, you got this.
I got to go to put on my NewYork cape and revive that.
How did that, where did thatcome from and how did you?
End up being president, not,it's a bad thing, but you were
like, hey, I'm here and I'm theonly guy here, I'm the president
now.
Speaker 5 (29:20):
Kind of happened organically, I think, at
LedgeCon.
Honestly, I think I went toLedgeCon my first one was 23.
I went last year, charles and Ikind of talked just offline,
just kind of speaking in generalterms, and he said there's no
New York Rental DealersAssociation.
I said, well, I can try to lightthat fire back up, there is now
, baby, turn the lights back onand he's like it's no big deal,
(29:42):
you just need a couple meetingsa year.
So I'm thinking I'm going tosip through a Dixie cup, and
then he calls me six monthslater and tells me there's a
fire there.
So the next thing I know I'm Iplanned on just sitting back and
you know, just sipping on alittle cup of tea and uh, you
know, learning about the,learning about the legislation,
more learning about Albany,learning about Washington DC,
(30:04):
and then he's the, the softwarefor April flagged a, uh, that
bill, uh, I think it was 1573 atthe time.
I don't know it's changed, butbut yeah, so I, uh, I wanted to
just help out, however I could.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
And then, uh, you know, luckily Matt's around to
kind of do the operations whileI'm playing politician or
playing whatever you want tocall it, matt's holding it down
Out in DC and New York this, butcan you guys really tell me
(30:36):
what is it?
What is it that's going tochange this transaction to make
it very unfavorable for us rightnow?
Speaker 5 (30:45):
I'll let the lawyer handle that one we're going to
refer back to Charles on that.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
By fundamentally mischaracterizing what we do.
It attempts to put an APReffectively on a rental
transaction A month-to-monthnon-renewable extendable
agreement, a lease that isrenewable upon execution of the
renewal, or option to therenewal right.
Tell me, you're a dealer, youdeal this stuff.
(31:16):
How do you put an APR?
Speaker 1 (31:19):
on a lease agreement.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
So when we talk about APR, we're talking about the
annual percentage rate, anannual percentage rate that's
capped at what 18% or 24%, Ithink is what they're trying to
put 16%, I think it was 16%usury rate.
Tell me, what does thatdisclosure look like on your
lease?
Speaker 1 (31:35):
agreement.
It doesn't look like anything.
There is nothing possible On apercentage rate like that.
We wouldn't be able to offerhalf the services that we give
people, to give them theopportunity to own some of the
fine things that are out hereright now.
I mean the free delivery outthe window, being able to
re-deliver it to you out thewindow.
Service would be nonexistent,like, if it breaks, sorry, it's
(31:56):
just yours, but and correct meif I'm wrong if we go to that
type of transaction, then thecustomer cannot return it.
Is that correct?
Speaker 2 (32:09):
See, that's the thing .
That's a great question andthis is something that cannot be
answered by the group that'spushing this and by the people
that don't really understandwhat's in the bill up there.
You can't, you can't do adisclosure that says it's 18%
APR and here's how that APRbreaks down per payment.
And we don't know if you'regoing to renew in two weeks, in
a month, if you're still goingto want this item in six months.
(32:29):
So, yeah, it totally underminesand redoes this entire product
that is utilized heavily in thatstate, because it provides an
option.
It provides an option toacquire all this stuff that
state, because it provides anoption.
It provides an option toacquire all the stuff that's in
this room right now.
So, yeah, I don't know, and thepeople that are pushing this
don't know either, and that'sreally kind of the messaging
(32:50):
we're trying to communicate tothem.
It's like, okay, what you'redoing does not make.
It doesn't make sense on onelevel, but it doesn't make sense
on actual, practical, how it'sgoing to work level.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
Well, just anybody in New York is listening.
We don't like this.
It's terrible and for everybodywho's working in New York State
that makes a living doing thisby helping the people in that
state, you're going to put a lotof people out of business.
Speaker 5 (33:15):
A lot of good people out of business 200 brick and
mortar.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
And then I'm going to send Matt to your house, so
that is not a threat.
I'm not saying that but I don'tknow where you live.
But if I did, no.
So, guys, I really appreciateyou being here, matt.
I love that you stuck aroundand helped him out a little bit.
I really do, mr Andrew.
Hi Drew, what's going on, pete?
And?
Speaker 3 (33:35):
Charles.
Hey, andrew, we're good man.
How are you?
I'm great.
Is Charles here to keep us inline?
Speaker 2 (33:46):
Well, you know I gave you the baseball bat earlier so
maybe I should go get that.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
So you know, coming out of the legal thing, we've
kind of talked about theadvocacy.
We talked about what's going onwith Mike Walls and Aaron's.
We talked about what's going onin the New York Rent-A-Dealer
Association.
Let's talk about somethingdifferent.
Speaker 4 (34:01):
Let's do it.
Let's get out of the legalityof all this.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
Let's put a little light on here.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
Let's do it.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
Andrew is the guy.
So in case anybody doesn't knowthis and I can't imagine
anybody not knowing this butAndrew owns Vox Populi, which
I've always loved the name.
I always thought that was aunique way to do it.
Peachtree Corners has foreverchanged.
Daniel over there is watchinghis son, but there's so much
that you've done in the lastyear, kind of reaching outside
(34:30):
the halls of Rent to Own andtaking a look at what else is
out there and how that affectsour marketing, what we do going
forward, a little bit of how dowe grow out of the shell that
we've kind of put ourselves in,because that's always a hard
thing to do.
We get in our shells, we startknocking up against the walls
and now we've got to kind ofmake something different of that
and I think you've kind ofreally come across it very well.
Speaker 3 (34:49):
Yeah.
So it's kind of cool, and oneof the things that we've really
started is making sure thatwe're getting out there and
getting into other areas, butalso learning and taking away as
much as we can for many ofthese guys.
And one of the things thatwe've seen out there more and
more and more and we were at ashow it's probably one of the
highest end shows in thefranchise community.
(35:13):
It's done by IFA, so you getcredits for it and everything,
but it's called FCXE, which isFranchise Customer Experience
Conference.
They talked about it there.
We're seeing it more and more.
But this whole idea ofomnipresence through canvassing
and if you look at the model,what a lot of guys are doing is
there's a whole lot of digitalfatigue out there.
(35:34):
That is a big phrase, digitalfatigue, whether it's Facebook,
tiktok, any of that stuff.
But the guys that are out inpeople's homes, in people's
communities, they are leveragingthat right.
So, whether it's a homeservices company, like a roofer,
they're out there with doorhangers, marketing.
They're marketing in that area.
They're getting way moreinvolved locally.
(35:56):
I've heard more talk aboutchamber of commerce events, but
everybody's really focused.
So so, for example, right, pete, I know you live in Tampa.
If I'm working in Tampa, I ammarketing in your neighborhood.
I am marketing in that area.
I'm not marketing in Orlando,I'm not marketing out to plant
city and some of these otherareas.
I'm staying super hyper-focusedin that area to make sure and
(36:18):
that's really the big thing thatwe're seeing more and more and
more is a pullback from.
You know they're still spendingin other areas, but really the
focus is, you know, 10 years agowe called it guerrilla
marketing.
The 2025 word is canvassing,okay.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
So help me out here, because I've gone to I don't
know how many educationalsessions we just had.
You know, if you guys come toApril 2025, their educational
sessions are four at a time.
We do three sets of three orfour.
Speaker 4 (36:50):
I think we've got 12 right now.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
It really depends.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
And they use different terms.
This is something different,and I like hearing the different
sides of things, because nowall I've heard is the two
initials that are taking overeverything by storm, and that's
A and I, and it's everywhere Now, daniel and I have talked about
it.
I've had another group on there, atlog has been on it, but
you're saying that there's apart that is having actual
digital fatigue, so it's notjust getting smarter, but the
(37:14):
advertising part of it, if youget away from that a little bit,
is going back to moregrassroots.
Speaker 3 (37:18):
There's a big part of it.
Well, it lets you hyper focusin your community, right,
because you're paying for Googleclicks.
That may or may not be a goodcustomer, you don't know if
you're necessarily getting that,but what I do know is, if I
deliver a refrigerator to PeteChow at 123 Main Street, tampa,
florida, that everybody aroundyou is a potential customer.
(37:39):
So I know that those are mycustomers out there.
I know that I can becomeimportant in the community and
leverage that.
It was great because at theFCXC, ivy Kids Schools, which is
based out of Texas, but they dothose early education centers,
they do a whole class on how towork with the chamber of
(38:00):
commerce in your community.
So it really is back to thatlocal.
It doesn't mean digital isgoing away, it doesn't mean any
of that, but there is fatiguethere and there's a big part of
digital detox that's going onright now too.
A lot of people are unpluggingright or left just because
there's so much freaking noiseout there.
Speaker 1 (38:19):
So is this kind of tailored more towards an older
clientele, because I know theyounger people, I think they're
going there a little bit more.
Is this an older clientele?
Or a middle age, probably 30plus, right at probably the last
level of millennials goinghigher that are just getting
tired of this?
Speaker 3 (38:36):
I think a lot of people are getting tired of it.
But again, you know, one of thethings that we've seen and I've
got some stats on it at thebooth is the other thing that
you have with some of thein-home marketing.
Right, and again, this doesn'talways work for everybody, but
we do get in our customers'homes, just like a roofer, just
like an outdoor lighting guy,just like a painter.
(38:58):
So we have that sameopportunity to market.
Look at how they market, heck.
Look at how a politicianmarkets.
Right, they're going around,they're door knocking, they're
shaking hands and they'reworking on getting those votes.
We need to market the same way.
But one of the things that andthis statistic is out there now
but that print marketing, andespecially mail marketing, has a
(39:19):
much slower decay rate thandigital, right, so with digital,
if you see it and you don't acton it right away, what's the
chances you're going to act onit in the future?
Print, you're bringing it intoyour house, you might stick it
in the basket or whatever andlook at it later, but you're
looking at it on your terms,where there's far greater impact
of it.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
I really don't even.
I don't know if I've everreally looked at it that way?
Speaker 2 (39:42):
No, I certainly haven't.
I mean the omni-channel aspectof that is really interesting.
Speaker 3 (39:47):
You know, I love I think that's the best word it's
be omni-channel and it's beomnipresent, right?
Yeah, I want to be out thereand I want.
I had a neighbor of mine forsomething that we did in the
community and we were talkingthe other day.
He goes, man, you guys areeverywhere, and I said that's
exactly the point.
Speaker 4 (40:05):
Yeah, I got it.
Speaker 1 (40:08):
So what are some of the ways that you found?
I mean, branding is branding.
Branding has been around sinceGod knows when.
But reaching outside of RTO,seeing some of the things that
are going, what are some of thenew branding trends that are
coming down this way?
Because you're saying print isnot dead.
(40:28):
Print is something thatactually can be very much alive
in the home of customers now.
Now we're not saying don't dothe electronic marketing, but at
the same time it's not dead.
If it comes in, if you get itin, it sits.
It kind of sits on that mindthought.
If it comes in, if you get itin, it sits.
It kind of sits on that mindthought.
How does that affect branding?
Where do I, how do I get abetter?
I'm trying to say this theright way, but how do I make my
brand stick out as much as Iwant to without going digital
100%?
Speaker 3 (40:48):
So let's back up here and make sure we're clear on
definitions.
I love it.
Charles is like yeah, let's getthem definitions right, baby,
let's not confuse branding andadvertising and promotion.
Digital is a channel.
Print is a channel.
Doing your trucks is a channel.
Your brand is bigger than that.
Right, and I think one of thebiggest things that you see out
(41:10):
there with brands and this issomething that everybody needs
to look at is what does my brandmean?
Right?
We see people that you know, ifwe all are saying the same
thing, that's simply a price ofadmission for getting there.
What does my brand mean topeople?
What does the feeling?
Uh, what does the feeling mean?
What does what does it standfor?
Right, and, and so I think thefirst thing that we have to look
(41:32):
at is what do we want to be?
What do we want to mean?
We've got to develop our brandbefore we can market.
The challenge that I see a lotof companies doing is they're
trying to market and be allthings to all people without
really meaning anything for anyone person.
Speaker 2 (41:47):
So that kind of reminds me of something and this
is something we really thinkabout.
I heard this in the associationspace and we really try to
think about with APRO Are weknown for what we want to be
known for?
About with APRO?
Are we known for what we wantto be known for?
And that idea of your brandingare you known for what you want
to be known for?
Are you following through onthat?
Speaker 3 (42:05):
A hundred percent.
And it's not just, you can'tjust say it, you have to live it
right.
Speaker 1 (42:10):
I mean you know, one part of our brand is we always
say tastefully obnoxious, right,and I want to be out there.
Speaker 3 (42:21):
I want to be bold, you know I would.
I want people to know who weare.
I'm not afraid of hurtingsomebody's feelings or pushing
the envelope or something likethat, because that's who we are.
And when we're working withclients, I can't tell people to
be omnipresent if I'm notomnipresent.
I can't tell people to be boldif I'm not bold.
So I think that's part of it.
I think you're a hundredpercent right, charles.
(42:43):
It's, it's who.
What are we telling people weare and is it communicating that
same exact thing?
I had a.
This was years ago.
I had a client in the quickserve restaurant place space and
they served roast beefsandwiches without saying who
they are.
But they always said they'renot like McDonald's or Burger
(43:04):
King, that they are a premiumquick serve experience, and I
said you can say whatever youwant, your food comes out of a
window.
It's all the same thing, right?
Speaker 1 (43:13):
So if you guys don't know, andrew, he just loves to
put it right there in your face.
Speaker 2 (43:21):
This is what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (43:22):
In case you missed it .
That's why I love you, Andrew.
So how do we use kind of goingback to it a little bit but how
do we utilize these businessesoutside?
Because Rentone is a veryunique situation in the sense
that we come together indifferent ways that other
companies don't.
We share a lot of innovationswith ourselves, like other
companies don't, but then whatwe don't want to do is create
(43:44):
that echo chamber where we'reall excited about the same thing
but we could all be bringing ina new idea, as opposed to one
person, and then we all share it.
So let's flip that on its ear.
What is going on outside of therent-to-own space that can help
us innovate as an industry?
Speaker 3 (43:59):
I think part one is defining what's going to make a
specific brand better.
Right, if you're brand X brand,why brand Z?
Why are you different?
Right, and and and look, do ahard internal audit of your
brand and you know, sometimesit's not any fun, but we've got
to look and see is my coremessaging the same as everybody
else's?
Okay, then that's a price ofadmission, right, that is, I
(44:22):
can't sit there and say you know, I, I, whatever the statement
is, if everybody else has thesame thing, one, what makes me
different?
Right, and it can't besomething that we can't show or
that's later on, right, well, wetreat our people different,
right, or something like that.
They can't see that, so how arewe going to get out there and
(44:43):
do that?
But I think part two is reallycreating an impact on the
customer at all phases.
We work with a private equityowned roofing company and they
are super aggressive oneverything they do.
And if you look at that modeland that's the same model that a
(45:04):
lot of home service companiesfollow and I think that we're
borderline in this where we're alittle bit different, maybe,
than a traditional retailer andwe're maybe more like a outdoor
lighting guy or something likethat, because we have the
opportunity to get in thecustomer's home and I think we
take that for granted to look atand sit there and say where's
my customers.
I was just talking to a dealer20 minutes ago in the booth and
(45:27):
he said I can't get my guys todo door hangers.
How is that an option?
Because the five guys up andthe five guys down.
Speaker 1 (45:37):
Those are your best prospects.
Wait, that was an option.
Was that an option at somepoint?
Speaker 3 (45:42):
It's become one, but you know what?
But again, let's look at all ofthose things.
So are we trying to reinventthe wheel or do we just need to
get back to solid execution andgetting out there?
We're not like again your Tampastores are serving people in
Tampa, they're not servingpeople elsewhere.
I have the opportunity to getin front of them, why don't I?
Speaker 1 (46:06):
So we're talking about when you say stuff like
that, we're talking about thelocal, like the Rotary Club and
the Better Business Bureau andthings like that Getting
involved not only in the localbusinesses but the local
politics, everything local.
Speaker 3 (46:18):
That's a big part of it, but you have to go into it
with the mindset of that's a bigpart of it, but you have to go
into it with the mindset of Imay not get the ROI on it in
week one, right?
So many times we look at thingsand we sit there and go hey, we
did door hangers last week andwe didn't get any more deals.
We're done and we don't do itanymore.
You got to feed the beast, butyou have to be committed to it
(46:40):
over time.
Right, you're not going to goto a chamber event.
Have to be committed to it overtime.
Right, you're not going to goto a chamber event.
And so with some of my coachingclients, we talk about this.
You're not going to go to achamber event and do rent to own
deals.
So what am I going to sell at achamber event?
Right, could I do an employeeVIP program?
Could I look at maybefurnishing rental properties for
somebody or home staging,because there's always 12
(47:01):
gajillion retailers in there.
But there is an idea there.
So what is the product that I'mgoing to take to these guys?
And I think that's a big partof it that we have to look at
what am I going to take to them?
And then, what commitment am Igoing to make?
It's not a one-time thing,right?
It's not whether it's a mailer,and the same thing applies to
digital.
You don't put one Facebook adout there and beat a path to
(47:21):
your door.
Speaker 1 (47:24):
You know, I know a couple of stories I can learn
from that.
You need more than one a year,otherwise it's not going to work
.
Charles, when we're talkingabout you know and it's funny
that you mention that because wehave Amberlee that does a lot
of stuff for us here at APRO andwhen you came in, there was a
complete shift of not only howwe looked, how we acted, how
(47:46):
everything came about and youknow, I know that Andrew's on
the board Is that just like oneof those examples where you can
say, hey, this is a fundamentaldifference between I don't know
part A and part B.
I should say I don't want todegrade anything that happened
beforehand, but you know thereis a stark difference.
Well, I'll go want to degradeanything that happened
beforehand, but there is a starkdifference.
Speaker 2 (48:04):
Well, I'll go back to that and what we talked about
with the branding are we knownfor what we want to be known for
?
And that's one of thosequestions I think about often in
what we're doing, how we'representing ourselves, how we're
representing the membershipexternally, what we're doing
internally for the members interms of benefits.
And that's a pretty strongguiding principle because, you
(48:28):
know, we have very highaspirations.
We've released a new missionstatement last year of promote
and protect the industry.
We released a vision statementlast year that we want to be the
rising tide that elevates allships.
And are we that for theindustry?
What are we doing?
And we can tie every singlething with intentionality to
(48:50):
what we do of being that risingtide.
And that's what I want to beknown for.
Whenever anyone thinks of APROis to think of us as that rising
tide.
And what we do through eventslike this, through legislative
conference or advocacy, throughour external PR-type measures.
Speaker 1 (49:05):
So I got to ask you have this commercial that came
up when we were watching the bigshow, right, and the Vox thing
comes up and you start puttingeverything out there.
What are some of the crazythings that you can do now with
all this technology and allthese machines?
I see you said drumsticks,We've got lunchboxes.
(49:26):
I mean Vox can kind of reallykind of do it on everything.
Speaker 3 (49:30):
Oh yeah, but I want to back up to something Charles
said, because I think that he'snot giving himself or the whole
APRO team a whole lot of crediton one thing One of the guys
that we're really working withclosely is Brandon Dawson, that
some people may know from aconsulting perspective, but one
(49:52):
of the things that Brandontaught me was be an owl Ask who,
right?
Who can help me get here, whocan introduce me to this person,
who can do this?
And I will say that when theleadership changed at APRO and
the mindset change was one ofthe things that y'all did is
y'all definitely asked who, andyou started looking at your
vendors, you started looking atother people that you work
(50:13):
closely with to say who can helpme grow this thing, who can
help me achieve this mission andwho can help me do that?
And I think that's huge,because when we ask people for
help, they help us get there.
Nobody can get there alone.
So I want to make sure thatthat was pointed out, because
you and I have talked about thatoffline, about the difference
there, but y'all really playedowls in that.
Speaker 1 (50:34):
Well, I got to say, in case anybody doesn't know,
Andrew is also part of the boardright, the vendor committee, so
he gets to kind of really getsome feedback and let us know
what's going on, especially atApril.
Going on at the show right now,at the RTO Show, World Show
2025.
Andrew, I really appreciate youstopping by.
Daniel.
I'm glad that you came by andsaid hello.
(50:54):
We're going to really startwrapping this up.
I know that we got so muchgoing on.
Speaker 3 (50:59):
I don't want Dennis to come over here and be, like
be like, yeah, he's about toyell and kick us out.
We do do a lot of cool stuff,so you should come by and talk
to us.
Speaker 1 (51:06):
All right, we'll come by and see the box store.
Listen, they are right here infront of us.
On what aisle?
Is that what?
Speaker 3 (51:12):
is it 500?
Speaker 2 (51:14):
yeah, I think we're 514 or 508 somewhere about
halfway down the aisle and I'lltell you I've I've been to their
facility and it is incredible.
It it's amazing what the thingis.
Speaker 1 (51:24):
Luckily, I was able to do the Ken Butler story over
there.
Yeah right and you know hewalked in like he owned the
place and he was all at home.
It was just kind of he was justlike.
You know I think my slippersare still down there and he just
came in and we just had like areally good conversation.
It was really nice to want tojust come back and come full
(51:45):
circle.
We've had some great guests ontoday.
We've really been able to talkabout some of the changes that
RTO is making as a whole, whichis something for me.
I'm very glad to see that we'regoing through this, the legal
advocacy that's going on rightnow.
I think there's a lot moreattention being put on the legal
advocacy part of what we do,and it wasn't like that and I'm
not saying it was never thisgood, I'm just saying that,
(52:07):
coming back to when we look atit now over the last couple of
years, wherever that chartstarts climbing, it was because
you know we're starting thefellowship program.
Is Vox doing part of thefellowship program too?
Speaker 3 (52:19):
We are involved in LegCon and do all all of that
and we haven't brought a fellowyet, but we're staying super
involved.
We're thinking about bringing afellow.
Speaker 1 (52:28):
I just want you to know the RTO show might be
bringing a fellow next year.
So if you guys are everinterested, let me know on how
that works, because we might dothat Also.
Not forgetting we're going todunk you.
Speaker 3 (52:42):
If, if if I want you to know this.
Speaker 1 (52:44):
Charles has so many accolades.
I was doing a little study onhim and, from what I understand,
charles actually has acertificate that he's certified
to be a CEO.
Is that not right?
You have a certified CEOcertificate.
Speaker 2 (52:58):
I just obtained one to be a certified association.
Speaker 1 (53:01):
He's certified with a PhD.
He's got a JD, but he'scertified to be a CEO.
If anybody didn't know that, hehas got a certification that
says he can do his job well inthe United States.
I wanted to say that out loud.
I remember that.
Listen.
Our sponsors we do want to saythank you to all the sponsors.
We've got Wild Brands, we'vegot Vox here, we've got JLR
(53:23):
America.
Hey, say thank you to all thesponsors.
You know, we got Wild Brands,we got Vox here, we've got JLR
America.
Hey guys, how you doing?
Everybody that's doing a greatjob.
Gerard Marketing, we reallyappreciate you guys getting
together, also as sponsors forthe RTO World situation here in
RTO World 2025, this would notbe possible without all the
vendors that we have comingtogether.
I know you were talking aboutit earlier.
(53:44):
Vox does a great job at reallyhelping us put all this together
.
You guys got to see their booth.
It's amazing.
There's literally a big bowl.
That's looking at the bowlthat's on this table right now.
Wanted you guys to know if youguys want to support us here, be
a vendor, come in support RTOWorld 2025, or you can support
the show by being a sponsor.
(54:05):
Hit me up at Pete at theRTOshowpodcastcom.
Let me know what you want to do.
We can work something out, butwe really need to.
I just want you guys to knowthat everything that you guys do
for us is getting everythingback to everybody else, and we
do appreciate that.
So, last but not least, charles, I'm gonna let you cut it out.
We have had a great hour so far.
Some great attendees stoppingby.
We've got Andrew, jeff and Mikestopping by and kind of, let us
(54:30):
know what's going on.
You ready to do this full time?
Oh yeah, no not yet I need youto be certified as a podcaster.
Speaker 2 (54:35):
I can tell you that you did the service.
Speaker 3 (54:37):
Hey, I know a guy that can make you a certified
podcaster certificate Add.
Make you a certified podcastercertificate.
Add that one.
Charles picked up two this week.
Speaker 2 (54:44):
Well, you might have two this week, well, I'll tell
you this, pete what you do withthis podcast is a great service
to the industry.
The stories that you're able totell, going and talking to
these people week after week,and what you do.
We're proud to be a sponsor.
I know Andrew is as well.
Thank you for what you do,because you're a big piece of
(55:05):
this industry, and the thingsthat we're trying to do with
APRO and to grow and share thegood news about what RTO is.
Speaker 1 (55:12):
Well, I couldn't compete with APRO or Vox.
I'd come up with a wholedifferent niche.
Speaker 2 (55:16):
I was like you know what Nobody's doing this.
We're going to go a wholedifferent direction.
Speaker 1 (55:20):
But I really do appreciate that, charles, and
it's about the passion.
I wouldn't do this if it wasn'tthe passion that I have for the
business and watching thepeople that go by right here and
their passion for the businessand enjoying that.
So I really appreciate you guys.
I appreciate you guys coming by.
We thank you for listening tothe show and I want to tell you
guys, as always, get yourcollections low to get your
(55:40):
sales high.
Have a great one.
Hello and welcome to the RTO show.
I'm your host, pete Chow.
Listen for anybody who doesn'tknow what's going on right here.
We are actually live at RTOWorld 2025.
I'm with the award winner overhere, right?
The award winner, charlesSmitherman, ceo, phd.
He's got more backstory thananybody I know, right.
I just want to know I wanted toknow, charles, before we get
(00:29):
started how come we don't callyou doctor?
I feel like I'm doing you adisservice by not calling him
doctor.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Well, so that's a funny story, because my brother
actually is a doctor.
He's a real doctor.
I'm the guy that if there's anemergency on an airplane, you do
not and you say is there adoctor on board?
You do not want to call me.
We call physicists doctors, andyou know what?
It was one of those things.
Once I got it, I never wantedto use it.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
He's like you know what, if I can't object, it
doesn't matter.
So today, listen, we have agreat show for everybody here.
There's live going on allbehind us.
You're not going to see that inthis video, but there is
everything going on out there.
Right now we have one of ourfirst interviewees here, michael
Waldman.
Introduce him in a second, butfirst we've got to talk about
the dunk contest, and I say thatloosely because it's actually a
(01:22):
water dunk contest.
So how does April?
Why does that matter to April?
What are we doing with that andwhat does it?
Speaker 2 (01:29):
help.
Well, so you know, last year wesubjected our entire
association to our karaoke, sowe had to find out a better way
that would be less damaging forthem.
You know, we're looking forways to raise money for the APRO
Charitable Foundation,particularly the scholarship
fund, and so we're looking for anew way to do it.
(01:50):
So this year we're going to beover at the ballpark and we
tried to make it as much of abaseball theme, and so you add
one and one together and we geta dunk.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
What more baseball themed than dunking somebody in
the tank?
Right, and it's for a goodcause, everybody.
Just so that you're aware rightnow, if you donate to the APRO
Disaster Relief Fund, this guy,along with like five others, are
going to go in the water if wehit $10,000.
So that means you've got to doit and that guy over there
You've got to make sure thatthey get dunked.
So right now, the participantsare Mike Kays, Mike Tissett, Dan
(02:21):
Fisher, Kevin Silvers and, ourfavorite, Charles.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Smitherman is in there, all right.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
So throws are available for donations Right
now.
I just wanted to talk to aboutthe sponsors of the RTO show.
So, apro, bring the premiersponsor.
Thank you for being here.
I got Jeff way over there.
He's kind of like gettingintent on getting ready to go.
But you know, apro does a greatjob in helping us get through
to the real part of what's goingon, and that's everybody here
(02:48):
making sure that they understandnot only how to do better, how
to be better and how to getbetter One way or another,
whether it's community, whetherit's being in your showroom,
whether it's talking to some ofthe legends that we have walking
around.
It is absolutely amazing to dothat.
Also, we've got Wow Brands, nowa official platinum sponsor,
gerard Norman Marketing.
I got honorary sponsors JLRAmerica.
Hopefully we can get Aaron's inthere sometime.
Speaker 4 (03:11):
I don't know, one of these days We'll see how this
goes.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
So we're going to talk about our guests really,
really quick.
So the first guest that I havetoday is Michael Wall.
He's going to introduce himself.
He's from Aaron's.
I got Andrew Hajdu up next.
He's talking about somemarketing, what's going on in
the future, what's happeningwith us and how we can kind of
pull from what's going onoutside of the rent-to-own
source to make what we're doingbetter yeah, which I'm really
(03:35):
looking forward to that.
And then we've got Jeff Smith,who's going to tell us all about
the legal situation up in NewYork.
He's going to talk to us abouthometown rentals.
He's going to talk to us aboutbeing president of the NYRDA.
We've got a lot to talk about.
So we're going to start withMichael Wall.
How you doing, mike.
Good Pete, thanks for having meon the show, all right, so a
(03:59):
little bit that we wanted toknow.
Let's talk about you.
What's your current role inAarons and how did you get there
?
Speaker 4 (04:08):
Sure, so, pete.
I'm the Senior Director ofCorporate Affairs at Aarons.
That means my team and Ioversee our government relations
, corporate communications andour corporate meetings and
events, so basically theexternal affairs, if you will,
for the company.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
So just to make sure, when you go out you're the face
.
Speaker 4 (04:28):
You got it.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
So it's like errands, and then they have the thing,
and then they have MichaelWall's face next to it.
Is that like the trademarksymbol?
It's pretty close.
And the dog.
Don't forget the dog.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
What's that?
Speaker 4 (04:38):
And the dog.
Don't forget the dog.
Oh yes, of course, oh yes ofcourse, lucky Dog is definitely
the mascot of the company.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Totally understandable.
So you know, as we were talking, there was a couple of things
that we wanted to kind of goover, because there's been a lot
of good change going on, aaron,I mean there's been that you
know.
Now that you're the face, Imean you get to really kind of
embody what's going on and saywe've made some big changes,
we've done that.
(05:04):
Did you want to talk about that, or should I shoot into that?
Speaker 4 (05:08):
Yeah, sure.
So I mean I think it's wellknown now, especially in our
space here as we sit here liveat the show.
You know we were acquired by IQVentures in October of 2024.
And really that acquisition hasgiven the company and our
management team the freedom tofocus on the things that really
(05:29):
drive the business, gives theman opportunity to look at
investments three to five yearsdown the road versus looking at
the next quarter right, andbeing able to really fuel growth
in the company.
It's been exciting.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Is there a real big difference between shareholders
and just being independentlyowned.
Does it make it so?
In other words, it's like, doesit make the transition to
making decisions a little biteasier, a little bit faster,
Like you said, looking three tofive years down the road and
going.
That's where we want to be,that's the focus we want to have
.
Speaker 4 (06:00):
So that's a little above my pay grade at the
company, thank goodness.
But we've got a great group offolks who are running the
company and our C-suite.
We've got a fantastic board andeveryone is energized and
excited about growing Aaron'sand really getting out there and
spending time with ourcustomers, spending time with
our franchisees, our employees,looking for ways where we can in
(06:24):
fact change the way we think,act and win in the market.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
And speaking of board , michael is one of our newest
board members on the APRO board,so we're excited to bring
Michael on board and reallycontinue Aaron's presence,
because they bring so much tothe association.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
We're actually on the podcast now.
Yes, gopal just stopped by.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Gopal Reddy, one of our great franchisees at Aaron's
.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Why don't you come in the camera and say, hello, come
on, sit down.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
Gopal, who just won the Heritage Award.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
So after years of slaving away at this industry
and doing everything you can toput back.
Somebody said, hey, we betterrecognize this guy, we better
give him a darn award and lethim know we love him.
We appreciate everything thatyou've done.
In case they haven't said it,we do appreciate it, yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Well deserved.
You go, Paul.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
So now we got all kinds of attendees and board
people up here and everything.
So, with what happened, we makethat transition.
There was also something elsethat happened.
Aaron's was looking at makingthis.
I don't want to say an ai model, but there was this model where
it was very streamlined smaller, smaller, uh, square footage,
but yet you have the ability toengage your customers
(07:40):
electronically through online um, making it very quick.
How was that transit Like?
What was the purpose behindthat?
Speaker 4 (07:47):
Yeah, so I think you're speaking more to the Gen
Next model.
Yes, so some of those storeswere larger in footprint, but
mostly what I would say is thegoal there was more modern
shopping experience, more sobrighter stores, uh, cleaner
footprints, like just realmodern integrated technology, so
(08:09):
that it would make the shoppingexperience, the retail
experience, smoother and moreengaging for the customer so and
maybe I'm sorry if I said thatwrong, because I did say smaller
, but like what was differentabout those showrooms in a
traditional show?
Speaker 1 (08:23):
so they're, they're big and bright, which which is
great, but was there somethingspecifically different that you
can say that model is not thesame model that we've been
following.
Speaker 4 (08:38):
Well, I'll just say that our Gen X model, first of
all, was received very well bycustomers and it's really been
an overwhelming positivefeedback.
Now, part of what we do atAaron's and I think everyone
here does this is everything isconstantly evolving and so what
we are doing right now in thatsame space.
So, you're not wrong, becausewe are looking at smaller
footprints, we are looking atlighter capital expenditures,
(09:00):
right.
So how can we make thatcustomer experience better?
Right?
So how can we make thatcustomer experience better?
How can we lean in there andalso make it attractive for
franchisees, right, so moreattractive from the financial
perspective, so that we cancontinue to expand and grow in a
more flexible, efficient way.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Nobody really comes into a franchise to lose money,
right.
I mean everybody's like how canyou make me some money?
Right, and I'll tell you, pete.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
I've had the chance to tour a couple of those stores
, those Gen X stores.
They are incredible, they'renice, they've got a great
footprint, it feels like you'rein a rooms to go type of
location.
And just some great technologytoo, with all the with the
touchpads and the.
That's right's right.
Speaker 4 (09:43):
Yeah, online application process and really
I'll just say this too the goalis to make it a more dignified
shopping experience.
We want those consumers to comein, feel at home, feel like
there's a lot of natural lightand modern.
Matt, you're welcome to come dothis You're welcome to come do
(10:04):
this man.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
I got a face for radio.
Come on, help me out.
Sit in with this guy, give hima help.
I'm sorry go ahead.
Speaker 4 (10:15):
No, you're good, I couldn't pass Matt up.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
He just had this face when he was walking by.
Speaker 4 (10:19):
You're good.
You're good, but my role,that's a lot of our business
management.
That's what they focus on everyday and that's great, because I
need them to focus on thatevery day.
What I focus on for the companyis our advocacy, making sure
that we're out there at thefederal level and the state
level.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
I'm so glad you said that, because that's actually
something Charles is superpassionate about.
I saw it on stage earlier,charles, I'm not going to say
anything, but I did see thatpassion come out of Charles and
it does.
So how do you feel about theway Michael's brought his form
of advocacy with Aaron's to whatwe do in DC?
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Well, I'll personally say this I've learned a lot
from Michael.
I mean, michael's a pro at this, he's experienced with it.
He's a great asset for Aaron's,he's going to be a great asset
for our board and what he knowsand all that knowledge he brings
to me or brings to the APROboard.
Michael and I have spent sometime together in meetings and
(11:18):
it's always fun to watch himoperate.
I'm taking notes myself on howto improve and how to share, but
Michael's a pro and we're luckyto have him.
Aaron's just lucky to have him.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
I'm going to tell you right now man, you're kind of
laid back.
You guys got to understand.
He's got a great smile, he'sall loose and he's sitting here
at the podcast.
He's like I got to make surethat I just deliver my lines.
But no, listen, what you do,not only for Aaron's, but what
you do as an advocate for thisindustry, being the face that
(11:50):
you are putting the attentionthat you do on it, we appreciate
that.
He appreciates that he might notbe able to give you a big old
hug from the other side of thetable but I know he wants to,
but like we need that you knowand it's not that anybody else
out there is not big enough.
But when you talk about the bigthree, it's always Rack, aarons
(12:10):
and Buddies, and to have theminvolved and included in this on
a regular basis means a lot,because that's a lot of
representation for us, that's alot of representation for APRO.
You know, to sit there and saythis is not just something we do
every once in a while or westop by once a year.
You're there all the time,which is something I want to
talk about, because you got togo back soon, oh yes.
Speaker 4 (12:30):
Well, it's August recess.
I will be headed back to DC inSeptember for a trip there.
You know, one thing I'll justshare is it's so important to be
involved and plugged into atrade organization, an
association like APRO, andAaron's has always been here and
will always be here, because weknow speaking with a collective
(12:51):
voice is much more powerfulthan doing it on our own.
But it's important.
We need that.
We need the relationships atthe federal level Absolutely,
and we need them at the stateand local level.
It doesn't need to stop just inDC, because we have to remember
we are creatures of statelegislatures.
There are 47 state statutes outthere, right, there are 47
(13:11):
states that have RTO specificstatutes that govern our
business, and it's importantthat we're there and we're
engaged and we're listening andfollowing the policy
conversations and thedevelopments, because if we are
not, it will be noticed, and wesaw that very clearly this year
and last year in New York.
(13:31):
So we've had to go up there andmake sure we can educate about
what is the RTO transaction.
How do we afford consumersflexibility without creating
debt obligation, without youknow creating debt obligation?
What are ways in which we helpthem along during the lease
process and the journey right sothat, like when they find
themselves in a hardship, we'reable to be there to help them
(13:54):
through it right With a payment,vacation or whatnot.
That's important to tell thatstory because, let's face it,
nothing's getting cheaper thesedays and so as those essential
goods climb in cost, we have toremember that it's our purpose
to be there to tell the story.
Make sure that our lawmakersand our staffers up there
(14:14):
understand that and hear it fromus and give that story some air
, give it some life, make surethey understand the reality and
the people behind it.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
Now we know why he's the face right.
Exactly there you go.
You do a great job at that.
You do a great job, Charles, ifwe're having some.
First off, are you guys bothlawyers?
Speaker 4 (14:38):
Yes, but I don't play one for the company I'm in
between a lot of legalrepresentation here.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
I just want to say that out loud.
There's a lot of legality inthis.
Speaker 4 (14:49):
Fortunately, I have a great legal staff and a great
legal department and I get topitch a lot of hard questions
their way and they help mefigure out what we're going to
say back to our regulators.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
So let me ask you a question.
With the legal background andyou being in DC all the time and
I love that you're therebecause I think you have the
personality for it but what madethem decide that you were the
person to represent this part ofthe company?
You know, we got this lawyerand he does a great job.
He does a good job at April.
He does a good job.
You know what.
You're the guy.
Speaker 4 (15:21):
Well, that's easy.
They hired me for it so theyknew what they wanted and I fit
the job description, so theyhired me for it.
But I will say we spend just asmuch time following state
action and state developments aswe do federal, and the reason
for that is because the pace,the speed at which an idea
becomes a law is so quick at thestate level and it has
(15:43):
sometimes immediate operationalimpact.
I mean, they go from definingthe transaction to determining
what's in your lease agreement,to what's acceptable disclosure.
All of that matters right, andso it's important to stay
involved and engaged at thestate level as well.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
So, when you go up there.
So when you go up there, areyou going up there for the New
York situation as well?
Speaker 4 (16:09):
Yes, we've all been there, we've all been there, and
that's the third time.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
If nobody knows, we've all been there.
Speaker 4 (16:16):
In February in Albany , New York, for a guy who's from
Tennessee and lives in Atlanta.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
Shows my dedication to the industry and I've got to
go to Albany, New York.
So what I'm going to do is theindustry and I've got to go to
Albany, New York.
So what I'm going to do is thenext time that I get a ticket, I
just want to know who to call.
No, I'm just kidding.
What I want to say is like-.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
Not me.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
Not the kind of lawyer, pete.
But what I will say is wereally appreciate that Now,
making that transition, we'vegot Jeff here.
He was going to go last, but Ithink, because we've been
talking about the legalsituation, I'm going to let you
talk about it a little bit more.
Who's technically spearheadingthis whole thing?
(16:55):
Is that Jeff?
Speaker 5 (16:57):
No, I wouldn't say.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Is it you.
Speaker 5 (17:00):
Charles.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
It's very much a collaborative effort.
We've been basically lots ofstrategy calls with all the
parties involved.
Speaker 4 (17:09):
Our government relations committee is very much
involved in overseeing this,and so it's very much been a
collaborative effort that we'vebeen able to share resources,
share information that we're allgetting from the ground and
we're fortunate to have Jeff'sinvolvement, him really
revitalizing or really bringingbringing back to life the new
york rental dealers associationand I would say it underscores
(17:31):
the importance of the companiesbeing members of their state rda
and paying those dues, because,because we were able to lean in
and and have those duesavailable, jeff was able to go
out and find us a good lobbyingfirm in New York who knows the
process, knows the people and isable to steer us all, I think,
(17:52):
in a direction that's been veryhelpful in educating about this
industry and what we do forconsumers and hopefully
dispelling a lot of themisconceptions that are out
there.
Speaker 5 (18:03):
Well.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
I'm certainly glad that you're up there for us.
How do you feel before we makethat switch over?
Is there anything that you wantto say to Mike before we let
him go?
Speaker 2 (18:13):
No, just thanks for being here, thanks for your
service, thanks for being on theboard and everything you do,
and it's been looking forward tocontinue to do this.
Speaker 4 (18:23):
Thank you, I'm looking forward to it as well,
and I will say this because sheis my boss, rachel George, who's
rolling off the board this yearand I am now being elected to
it.
I have some really big shoes tofill.
Rachel's been, I think, a greatresource to APRO and has the
legal acumen that I do not have,but I am looking forward to
(18:45):
continuing to learn from her inmy role and will continue to
bring that.
While she's stepping off theboard, she's not stepping away,
and so we'll continue to bringeverything we've got at Aarons
to support APRO and its mission.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
I'm going to say, Rachel, if you're listening or
if you're going to listen in thefuture, we appreciate what you
do, we appreciate everything youdo.
Mike, I appreciate you beinghere.
I appreciate you being here.
I appreciate you taking out thetime.
I know it's not always easy,but being able to stop in for a
little bit at least and saying,hi, we do appreciate it.
Up next we're going to haveJeff Smith, All right, so next
up, Jeff Smith.
And I pulled from the crowdMatt because he was trying to
(19:21):
get through here and I'm like no, no, no, no, You've got to come
in and help Jeff out.
He deserves that yeah, so tobring us up to speed if you
haven't heard his stories before, these gentlemen have both been
on the podcast before, kind ofrepresenting not only their
brand-new business, the HometownRentals and Northeast, but,
jeff, now is the sittingpresident of the NYRDA that you
(19:43):
actually brought up andresurrected.
Now was April a part of that?
Speaker 2 (19:49):
We were as part of like a strategic initiative.
We were looking for states thatwere either inactive, weren't
represented, and we reached outto Jeff and Jeff is Jeff.
I'll say this about Jeff Jeffis you.
You could ask him to doanything.
He is going to be there for you.
He's reliable, he's willing,he's a great board member.
Uh, he's served on our boardnow for a year just a year,
(20:11):
which is crazy because of howmuch that he's contributed.
And, um, this New Yorksituation was was exactly it.
Um, uh, he was recognized thattoday and the New York by
winning the Ed Wynn AdvocacyAward for all the work that he's
done and the association's doneup there.
I love seeing Jeff on there.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
He looked even nervous on his own video there's
nobody in the room, but he'ssitting there.
He's like nervous, he's likeeverybody's watching this, so
we're going to start off withsome simple stuff that I think
everybody's interested in.
Everybody wants to know SureRight, tariffs is coming,
whether it's here or not.
You've got these scared peopleworried about what's going on
(20:47):
with the tariffs.
So it hasn't hit, but you'vegot people in fear.
So how is that affecting usright now?
Have you guys seeing areduction in some of the things
that are going on because of thetariffs, or is tariffs
affecting us at all?
Speaker 5 (21:02):
I don't think so, because the 90-day extension
that we got yesterday from Trump, there were some vendors that
were kind of trying to pre-planfor that, assuming that the
tariffs were going to hit andwe're forecasting a price
increase.
But as of yesterday, the pricesheets that all came out today,
or most of the price sheets thatwe're seeing, don't have any
tariffs on them or any priceincreases on them.
(21:24):
So I think, temporarily atleast, we've dodged that, the T
word.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
We call it the T word .
I like that, okay.
So from an APRO standpoint,from a rent-to-own standpoint,
is there anybody to talk to tosay, hey, you know what, I'm not
saying good, bad or indifferent, I'm not here to be an
economist, because I'm not.
I pretend one on TV, but I'mnot and say some things are
great, some things are not?
(21:50):
Is there a forefront to saymaybe the tariffs might not be
good for this industry, or do wefeel like we can take that hit?
Tariffs might not be good forthis industry, or do we feel
like we can take that hit?
We build it into the pricemodel because we take care of
people.
We do deliveries.
You do have, you know, thatability to return when you can't
afford it and we'll take itback out to you with a lifetime
reinstatement.
Is it more that way, or is itmore these tariffs are going to?
It's going to be hard.
Let's figure this out.
Speaker 5 (22:11):
I would say, now more than ever, it makes this
transaction even more valuablethan it's been in the past.
Because of that, if a customeris not ready to commit that
extra, or even if they just wantto wait it out and see, say,
you know, if somebody's payingattention, they see that Trump
just did the 90-day pause withChina and they say well, you
know, I really need thisfurniture.
I'm just going to go rent itfor a couple months, you know,
(22:33):
then I'm not obligated or I'mnot committed to that.
And the other side of that iswe always pass the savings on to
our customers.
The other unfortunate side ofthat coin is we would have to
pass any increase on to ourcustomer as well.
But it's a double-edged sword,but it works both ways, I guess.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
Talking about a double-edged sword, and I'm
going to let you guys talk aboutthis.
We've got some legislation inNew York that's really starting
to kind of linger a lot longerthan it should have.
Now you guys have what?
Two stores in New York and onein Pennsylvania, three in New
York, one in Pennsylvania.
God, you guys are growing.
Like every time I turn aroundit's a new store.
(23:12):
So when you're looking at thisand you know how this is,
because when we're looking atthis, everybody the point is not
that it's just going to affectNew York, which is especially
going to hurt you guys, butwe're talking about this is
something that can affect theNew York state and then be
carried on to another state,which might then cause a domino
effect.
We've got certain states thatare probably a little bit more
liberal in that area.
So we're talking aboutCalifornia, we're talking about
Illinois.
(23:32):
What's going on with that rightnow?
Speaker 2 (23:39):
What's going on with that right now?
Well, fortunately, the sessionended back in June and the bills
that were both pending in bothchambers up there expired
effectively or they died on thevine.
New York's kind of just aninteresting state.
I think we learn more everytime we go up there and talk to
someone about how their processworks.
But the bills are round andthey're not dead yet, and so
(24:00):
we're really continuing to presson getting our messaging out,
getting the word out, reallyfixing these misconceptions and
these really bad talking pointsthat keep mischaracterizing what
we do, mischaracterizing theimportance of what we do and how
important it is for thoseconsumers that utilize our
(24:21):
product and that's growing.
We provide a good option thatexists for a reason and it's
going to continue to growbecause it is a good option and
being able to offer theflexibility that it does, and so
we've just got to keep the footon the gas and providing that
messaging making.
And so we've just got to keepthe foot on the gas and
providing that messaging, makingsure that we're telling and
(24:42):
characterizing it the way thatit actually is and fighting
these misconceptions, becausethat's really the bottom line of
what's happening up there isthat the people that don't
understand what our business ishave confused us with other
financial products out there,new products that may or may not
need to be looked at, but we'regoing up there and saying look,
(25:05):
we've been regulated since 1986in this state.
You revised or amended ourstatute in 2009.
We're here to work with you,but you don't need to throw us
into this big jumbo bill that'sgot all these different things.
It mischaracterizes everythingthat we do and so it's really
just continuing to get thatmessaging.
We're really trying to work onpersonal things.
(25:26):
I think Jeff had someone in hisstore pretty recently.
Speaker 5 (25:29):
Yeah, we're actually.
Senator George Borrella wasdown because he's got.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
Really, he came to the store Yep.
Speaker 5 (25:34):
That's what I'm talking about.
Wait, he came to the store.
Yep, that's what I'm talkingabout.
He's obviously got a vestedinterest.
He's got three stores, or allthree of our stores are in his
district, all along the PA stateline, and he knows, if this
goes through, we're going tomove, you know, two miles, four
miles south, matt, you didn'tscare him out of the store.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
You didn't scare him out of the store.
Get out of here, man.
You're not passing thatlegislation, not in this store.
No, I'm just kidding.
Speaker 5 (25:55):
No, he's definitely on our side and he's a business
owner as well, so he understandswhat we're up against.
And to Charles' point, we'rekind of regrouping and revamping
our message to Albany.
We're trying to humanize thetransaction a little more.
I think they look at us as thebig bad evil empire.
No pun intended for New YorkState with the Yankees, you
(26:17):
didn't throw that in there.
Well, no pun intended for NewYork State with the Yankees, but
the Yankees fan too.
So that makes it easy for me tomake that comparison.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
It's a flaw of all of us.
I'm a.
Speaker 5 (26:23):
Yankees fan I'm good.
I welcome the evil empiremoniker in that situation.
But we're just trying to try toeverything.
Everything we've tried isn'tworking.
So that's why we're trying tohumanize the approach this time
and show them real worldexamples.
I think Larry Carrico said itbest.
You know, we don't sellmattresses, we sell a good
night's sleep.
We don't sell refrigerators, wesell cold milk.
(26:44):
And that's kind of the messagewe're trying to portray to them.
And as we get ready to do ourthird and our fourth trips out
there however many it's going tobe we're kind of learning that
the message we sent the firsttwo times isn't working.
So we're kind of pivoting andgoing to a more human and try to
get some customer testimonialsand get you know kind of some
different messaging out therethat hopefully they're a little
bit more receptive to.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Yeah, and I think I'll add to that.
Look, I mean we're sitting outhere in the corner of this
massive expo hall.
I'm looking at Ashley HomeFurniture right over there.
I'm looking at all these namebrand appliances, tvs,
everything out there.
This is what this industry does.
They're buying here, taking itto stores like Jeff and giving
people the option of obtaininguse of a product, a pathway to
(27:30):
ownership, a flexible optionthat exists.
And look, we just need to tellour story.
We don't have to make anythingup here.
I think if we had those guyssitting here seeing what I'm
looking at right now, with allthese vendors, all these people
walking around and what thistransaction provides up there, I
think there would be a completere-visioning of what they're
(27:51):
trying to do there andunderstand what we do.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
Matt, you think we can invite them over here to sit
down at the podcast.
You think they'll sit.
Speaker 5 (27:58):
I would love for them to come sit with us.
We could chat for days withthis.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
You guys haven't seen Matt.
He's kind of like anintimidating kind of big guy and
I don't know, if they'd come inand sit, we'd have to introduce
you next, we'd have to sit downand then right, pete's.
Speaker 5 (28:15):
Being modest, I'm really 5'9", I'm kidding.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
At heart.
Speaker 5 (28:18):
He's 5'9".
One word Charles didn't mentionwas access.
We're providing access to thesepeople.
You know our customers, ourfriends.
You know they don't have accessto these products otherwise,
like Ashley Furniture or youknow, lg Sustainable Steel
French Store Refrigerator, if wedidn't exist.
They're looking on FacebookMarketplace and buying a fridge
for 100 bucks, hoping it worksand trying to find somebody to
(28:42):
deliver it to them.
So access is another thing thatwe provide.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
So a couple other things that I wanted to talk
about was because we're talkingabout how important it is what
we're doing, accessing the hallsof Albany to make it happen.
But as Mike Wall said, andwe're saying it now, there
wasn't an NYRDA, which, foranybody who doesn't know, that's
the New York Rental DealersAssociation.
They were dormant, kind of gone.
(29:05):
They were, and then Jeff sayshey, matt, you got this.
I got to go to put on my NewYork cape and revive that.
How did that, where did thatcome from and how did you?
End up being president, not,it's a bad thing, but you were
like, hey, I'm here and I'm theonly guy here, I'm the president
now.
Speaker 5 (29:20):
Kind of happened organically, I think, at
LedgeCon.
Honestly, I think I went toLedgeCon my first one was 23.
I went last year, charles and Ikind of talked just offline,
just kind of speaking in generalterms, and he said there's no
New York Rental DealersAssociation.
I said, well, I can try to lightthat fire back up, there is now
, baby, turn the lights back onand he's like it's no big deal,
(29:42):
you just need a couple meetingsa year.
So I'm thinking I'm going tosip through a Dixie cup, and
then he calls me six monthslater and tells me there's a
fire there.
So the next thing I know I'm Iplanned on just sitting back and
you know, just sipping on alittle cup of tea and uh, you
know, learning about the,learning about the legislation,
more learning about Albany,learning about Washington DC,
(30:04):
and then he's the, the softwarefor April flagged a, uh, that
bill, uh, I think it was 1573 atthe time.
I don't know it's changed, butbut yeah, so I, uh, I wanted to
just help out, however I could.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
And then, uh, you know, luckily Matt's around to
kind of do the operations whileI'm playing politician or
playing whatever you want tocall it, matt's holding it down
Out in DC and New York this, butcan you guys really tell me
(30:36):
what is it?
What is it that's going tochange this transaction to make
it very unfavorable for us rightnow?
Speaker 5 (30:45):
I'll let the lawyer handle that one we're going to
refer back to Charles on that.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
By fundamentally mischaracterizing what we do.
It attempts to put an APReffectively on a rental
transaction A month-to-monthnon-renewable extendable
agreement, a lease that isrenewable upon execution of the
renewal, or option to therenewal right.
Tell me, you're a dealer, youdeal this stuff.
(31:16):
How do you put an APR?
Speaker 1 (31:19):
on a lease agreement.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
So when we talk about APR, we're talking about the
annual percentage rate, anannual percentage rate that's
capped at what 18% or 24%, Ithink is what they're trying to
put 16%, I think it was 16%usury rate.
Tell me, what does thatdisclosure look like on your
lease?
Speaker 1 (31:35):
agreement.
It doesn't look like anything.
There is nothing possible On apercentage rate like that.
We wouldn't be able to offerhalf the services that we give
people, to give them theopportunity to own some of the
fine things that are out hereright now.
I mean the free delivery outthe window, being able to
re-deliver it to you out thewindow.
Service would be nonexistent,like, if it breaks, sorry, it's
(31:56):
just yours, but and correct meif I'm wrong if we go to that
type of transaction, then thecustomer cannot return it.
Is that correct?
Speaker 2 (32:09):
See, that's the thing .
That's a great question andthis is something that cannot be
answered by the group that'spushing this and by the people
that don't really understandwhat's in the bill up there.
You can't, you can't do adisclosure that says it's 18%
APR and here's how that APRbreaks down per payment.
And we don't know if you'regoing to renew in two weeks, in
a month, if you're still goingto want this item in six months.
(32:29):
So, yeah, it totally underminesand redoes this entire product
that is utilized heavily in thatstate, because it provides an
option.
It provides an option toacquire all this stuff that
state, because it provides anoption.
It provides an option toacquire all the stuff that's in
this room right now.
So, yeah, I don't know, and thepeople that are pushing this
don't know either, and that'sreally kind of the messaging
(32:50):
we're trying to communicate tothem.
It's like, okay, what you'redoing does not make.
It doesn't make sense on onelevel, but it doesn't make sense
on actual, practical, how it'sgoing to work level.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
Well, just anybody in New York is listening.
We don't like this.
It's terrible and for everybodywho's working in New York State
that makes a living doing thisby helping the people in that
state, you're going to put a lotof people out of business.
Speaker 5 (33:15):
A lot of good people out of business 200 brick and
mortar.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
And then I'm going to send Matt to your house, so
that is not a threat.
I'm not saying that but I don'tknow where you live.
But if I did, no.
So, guys, I really appreciateyou being here, matt.
I love that you stuck aroundand helped him out a little bit.
I really do, mr Andrew.
Hi Drew, what's going on, pete?
And?
Speaker 3 (33:35):
Charles.
Hey, andrew, we're good man.
How are you?
I'm great.
Is Charles here to keep us inline?
Speaker 2 (33:46):
Well, you know I gave you the baseball bat earlier so
maybe I should go get that.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
So you know, coming out of the legal thing, we've
kind of talked about theadvocacy.
We talked about what's going onwith Mike Walls and Aaron's.
We talked about what's going onin the New York Rent-A-Dealer
Association.
Let's talk about somethingdifferent.
Speaker 4 (34:01):
Let's do it.
Let's get out of the legalityof all this.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
Let's put a little light on here.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
Let's do it.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
Andrew is the guy.
So in case anybody doesn't knowthis and I can't imagine
anybody not knowing this butAndrew owns Vox Populi, which
I've always loved the name.
I always thought that was aunique way to do it.
Peachtree Corners has foreverchanged.
Daniel over there is watchinghis son, but there's so much
that you've done in the lastyear, kind of reaching outside
(34:30):
the halls of Rent to Own andtaking a look at what else is
out there and how that affectsour marketing, what we do going
forward, a little bit of how dowe grow out of the shell that
we've kind of put ourselves in,because that's always a hard
thing to do.
We get in our shells, we startknocking up against the walls
and now we've got to kind ofmake something different of that
and I think you've kind ofreally come across it very well.
Speaker 3 (34:49):
Yeah.
So it's kind of cool, and oneof the things that we've really
started is making sure thatwe're getting out there and
getting into other areas, butalso learning and taking away as
much as we can for many ofthese guys.
And one of the things thatwe've seen out there more and
more and more and we were at ashow it's probably one of the
highest end shows in thefranchise community.
(35:13):
It's done by IFA, so you getcredits for it and everything,
but it's called FCXE, which isFranchise Customer Experience
Conference.
They talked about it there.
We're seeing it more and more.
But this whole idea ofomnipresence through canvassing
and if you look at the model,what a lot of guys are doing is
there's a whole lot of digitalfatigue out there.
(35:34):
That is a big phrase, digitalfatigue, whether it's Facebook,
tiktok, any of that stuff.
But the guys that are out inpeople's homes, in people's
communities, they are leveragingthat right.
So, whether it's a homeservices company, like a roofer,
they're out there with doorhangers, marketing.
They're marketing in that area.
They're getting way moreinvolved locally.
(35:56):
I've heard more talk aboutchamber of commerce events, but
everybody's really focused.
So so, for example, right, pete, I know you live in Tampa.
If I'm working in Tampa, I ammarketing in your neighborhood.
I am marketing in that area.
I'm not marketing in Orlando,I'm not marketing out to plant
city and some of these otherareas.
I'm staying super hyper-focusedin that area to make sure and
(36:18):
that's really the big thing thatwe're seeing more and more and
more is a pullback from.
You know they're still spendingin other areas, but really the
focus is, you know, 10 years agowe called it guerrilla
marketing.
The 2025 word is canvassing,okay.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
So help me out here, because I've gone to I don't
know how many educationalsessions we just had.
You know, if you guys come toApril 2025, their educational
sessions are four at a time.
We do three sets of three orfour.
Speaker 4 (36:50):
I think we've got 12 right now.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
It really depends.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
And they use different terms.
This is something different,and I like hearing the different
sides of things, because nowall I've heard is the two
initials that are taking overeverything by storm, and that's
A and I, and it's everywhere Now, daniel and I have talked about
it.
I've had another group on there, atlog has been on it, but
you're saying that there's apart that is having actual
digital fatigue, so it's notjust getting smarter, but the
(37:14):
advertising part of it, if youget away from that a little bit,
is going back to moregrassroots.
Speaker 3 (37:18):
There's a big part of it.
Well, it lets you hyper focusin your community, right,
because you're paying for Googleclicks.
That may or may not be a goodcustomer, you don't know if
you're necessarily getting that,but what I do know is, if I
deliver a refrigerator to PeteChow at 123 Main Street, tampa,
florida, that everybody aroundyou is a potential customer.
(37:39):
So I know that those are mycustomers out there.
I know that I can becomeimportant in the community and
leverage that.
It was great because at theFCXC, ivy Kids Schools, which is
based out of Texas, but they dothose early education centers,
they do a whole class on how towork with the chamber of
(38:00):
commerce in your community.
So it really is back to thatlocal.
It doesn't mean digital isgoing away, it doesn't mean any
of that, but there is fatiguethere and there's a big part of
digital detox that's going onright now too.
A lot of people are unpluggingright or left just because
there's so much freaking noiseout there.
Speaker 1 (38:19):
So is this kind of tailored more towards an older
clientele, because I know theyounger people, I think they're
going there a little bit more.
Is this an older clientele?
Or a middle age, probably 30plus, right at probably the last
level of millennials goinghigher that are just getting
tired of this?
Speaker 3 (38:36):
I think a lot of people are getting tired of it.
But again, you know, one of thethings that we've seen and I've
got some stats on it at thebooth is the other thing that
you have with some of thein-home marketing.
Right, and again, this doesn'talways work for everybody, but
we do get in our customers'homes, just like a roofer, just
like an outdoor lighting guy,just like a painter.
(38:58):
So we have that sameopportunity to market.
Look at how they market, heck.
Look at how a politicianmarkets.
Right, they're going around,they're door knocking, they're
shaking hands and they'reworking on getting those votes.
We need to market the same way.
But one of the things that andthis statistic is out there now
but that print marketing, andespecially mail marketing, has a
(39:19):
much slower decay rate thandigital, right, so with digital,
if you see it and you don't acton it right away, what's the
chances you're going to act onit in the future?
Print, you're bringing it intoyour house, you might stick it
in the basket or whatever andlook at it later, but you're
looking at it on your terms,where there's far greater impact
of it.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
I really don't even.
I don't know if I've everreally looked at it that way?
Speaker 2 (39:42):
No, I certainly haven't.
I mean the omni-channel aspectof that is really interesting.
Speaker 3 (39:47):
You know, I love I think that's the best word it's
be omni-channel and it's beomnipresent, right?
Yeah, I want to be out thereand I want.
I had a neighbor of mine forsomething that we did in the
community and we were talkingthe other day.
He goes, man, you guys areeverywhere, and I said that's
exactly the point.
Speaker 4 (40:05):
Yeah, I got it.
Speaker 1 (40:08):
So what are some of the ways that you found?
I mean, branding is branding.
Branding has been around sinceGod knows when.
But reaching outside of RTO,seeing some of the things that
are going, what are some of thenew branding trends that are
coming down this way?
Because you're saying print isnot dead.
(40:28):
Print is something thatactually can be very much alive
in the home of customers now.
Now we're not saying don't dothe electronic marketing, but at
the same time it's not dead.
If it comes in, if you get itin, it sits.
It kind of sits on that mindthought.
If it comes in, if you get itin, it sits.
It kind of sits on that mindthought.
How does that affect branding?
Where do I, how do I get abetter?
I'm trying to say this theright way, but how do I make my
brand stick out as much as Iwant to without going digital
100%?
Speaker 3 (40:48):
So let's back up here and make sure we're clear on
definitions.
I love it.
Charles is like yeah, let's getthem definitions right, baby,
let's not confuse branding andadvertising and promotion.
Digital is a channel.
Print is a channel.
Doing your trucks is a channel.
Your brand is bigger than that.
Right, and I think one of thebiggest things that you see out
(41:10):
there with brands and this issomething that everybody needs
to look at is what does my brandmean?
Right?
We see people that you know, ifwe all are saying the same
thing, that's simply a price ofadmission for getting there.
What does my brand mean topeople?
What does the feeling?
Uh, what does the feeling mean?
What does what does it standfor?
Right, and, and so I think thefirst thing that we have to look
(41:32):
at is what do we want to be?
What do we want to mean?
We've got to develop our brandbefore we can market.
The challenge that I see a lotof companies doing is they're
trying to market and be allthings to all people without
really meaning anything for anyone person.
Speaker 2 (41:47):
So that kind of reminds me of something and this
is something we really thinkabout.
I heard this in the associationspace and we really try to
think about with APRO Are weknown for what we want to be
known for?
About with APRO?
Are we known for what we wantto be known for?
And that idea of your brandingare you known for what you want
to be known for?
Are you following through onthat?
Speaker 3 (42:05):
A hundred percent.
And it's not just, you can'tjust say it, you have to live it
right.
Speaker 1 (42:10):
I mean you know, one part of our brand is we always
say tastefully obnoxious, right,and I want to be out there.
Speaker 3 (42:21):
I want to be bold, you know I would.
I want people to know who weare.
I'm not afraid of hurtingsomebody's feelings or pushing
the envelope or something likethat, because that's who we are.
And when we're working withclients, I can't tell people to
be omnipresent if I'm notomnipresent.
I can't tell people to be boldif I'm not bold.
So I think that's part of it.
I think you're a hundredpercent right, charles.
(42:43):
It's, it's who.
What are we telling people weare and is it communicating that
same exact thing?
I had a.
This was years ago.
I had a client in the quickserve restaurant place space and
they served roast beefsandwiches without saying who
they are.
But they always said they'renot like McDonald's or Burger
(43:04):
King, that they are a premiumquick serve experience, and I
said you can say whatever youwant, your food comes out of a
window.
It's all the same thing, right?
Speaker 1 (43:13):
So if you guys don't know, andrew, he just loves to
put it right there in your face.
Speaker 2 (43:21):
This is what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (43:22):
In case you missed it .
That's why I love you, Andrew.
So how do we use kind of goingback to it a little bit but how
do we utilize these businessesoutside?
Because Rentone is a veryunique situation in the sense
that we come together indifferent ways that other
companies don't.
We share a lot of innovationswith ourselves, like other
companies don't, but then whatwe don't want to do is create
(43:44):
that echo chamber where we'reall excited about the same thing
but we could all be bringing ina new idea, as opposed to one
person, and then we all share it.
So let's flip that on its ear.
What is going on outside of therent-to-own space that can help
us innovate as an industry?
Speaker 3 (43:59):
I think part one is defining what's going to make a
specific brand better.
Right, if you're brand X brand,why brand Z?
Why are you different?
Right, and and and look, do ahard internal audit of your
brand and you know, sometimesit's not any fun, but we've got
to look and see is my coremessaging the same as everybody
else's?
Okay, then that's a price ofadmission, right, that is, I
(44:22):
can't sit there and say you know, I, I, whatever the statement
is, if everybody else has thesame thing, one, what makes me
different?
Right, and it can't besomething that we can't show or
that's later on, right, well, wetreat our people different,
right, or something like that.
They can't see that, so how arewe going to get out there and
(44:43):
do that?
But I think part two is reallycreating an impact on the
customer at all phases.
We work with a private equityowned roofing company and they
are super aggressive oneverything they do.
And if you look at that modeland that's the same model that a
(45:04):
lot of home service companiesfollow and I think that we're
borderline in this where we're alittle bit different, maybe,
than a traditional retailer andwe're maybe more like a outdoor
lighting guy or something likethat, because we have the
opportunity to get in thecustomer's home and I think we
take that for granted to look atand sit there and say where's
my customers.
I was just talking to a dealer20 minutes ago in the booth and
(45:27):
he said I can't get my guys todo door hangers.
How is that an option?
Because the five guys up andthe five guys down.
Speaker 1 (45:37):
Those are your best prospects.
Wait, that was an option.
Was that an option at somepoint?
Speaker 3 (45:42):
It's become one, but you know what?
But again, let's look at all ofthose things.
So are we trying to reinventthe wheel or do we just need to
get back to solid execution andgetting out there?
We're not like again your Tampastores are serving people in
Tampa, they're not servingpeople elsewhere.
I have the opportunity to getin front of them, why don't I?
Speaker 1 (46:06):
So we're talking about when you say stuff like
that, we're talking about thelocal, like the Rotary Club and
the Better Business Bureau andthings like that Getting
involved not only in the localbusinesses but the local
politics, everything local.
Speaker 3 (46:18):
That's a big part of it, but you have to go into it
with the mindset of that's a bigpart of it, but you have to go
into it with the mindset of Imay not get the ROI on it in
week one, right?
So many times we look at thingsand we sit there and go hey, we
did door hangers last week andwe didn't get any more deals.
We're done and we don't do itanymore.
You got to feed the beast, butyou have to be committed to it
(46:40):
over time.
Right, you're not going to goto a chamber event.
Have to be committed to it overtime.
Right, you're not going to goto a chamber event.
And so with some of my coachingclients, we talk about this.
You're not going to go to achamber event and do rent to own
deals.
So what am I going to sell at achamber event?
Right, could I do an employeeVIP program?
Could I look at maybefurnishing rental properties for
somebody or home staging,because there's always 12
(47:01):
gajillion retailers in there.
But there is an idea there.
So what is the product that I'mgoing to take to these guys?
And I think that's a big partof it that we have to look at
what am I going to take to them?
And then, what commitment am Igoing to make?
It's not a one-time thing,right?
It's not whether it's a mailer,and the same thing applies to
digital.
You don't put one Facebook adout there and beat a path to
(47:21):
your door.
Speaker 1 (47:24):
You know, I know a couple of stories I can learn
from that.
You need more than one a year,otherwise it's not going to work
.
Charles, when we're talkingabout you know and it's funny
that you mention that because wehave Amberlee that does a lot
of stuff for us here at APRO andwhen you came in, there was a
complete shift of not only howwe looked, how we acted, how
(47:46):
everything came about and youknow, I know that Andrew's on
the board Is that just like oneof those examples where you can
say, hey, this is a fundamentaldifference between I don't know
part A and part B.
I should say I don't want todegrade anything that happened
beforehand, but you know thereis a stark difference.
Well, I'll go want to degradeanything that happened
beforehand, but there is a starkdifference.
Speaker 2 (48:04):
Well, I'll go back to that and what we talked about
with the branding are we knownfor what we want to be known for
?
And that's one of thosequestions I think about often in
what we're doing, how we'representing ourselves, how we're
representing the membershipexternally, what we're doing
internally for the members interms of benefits.
And that's a pretty strongguiding principle because, you
(48:28):
know, we have very highaspirations.
We've released a new missionstatement last year of promote
and protect the industry.
We released a vision statementlast year that we want to be the
rising tide that elevates allships.
And are we that for theindustry?
What are we doing?
And we can tie every singlething with intentionality to
(48:50):
what we do of being that risingtide.
And that's what I want to beknown for.
Whenever anyone thinks of APROis to think of us as that rising
tide.
And what we do through eventslike this, through legislative
conference or advocacy, throughour external PR-type measures.
Speaker 1 (49:05):
So I got to ask you have this commercial that came
up when we were watching the bigshow, right, and the Vox thing
comes up and you start puttingeverything out there.
What are some of the crazythings that you can do now with
all this technology and allthese machines?
I see you said drumsticks,We've got lunchboxes.
(49:26):
I mean Vox can kind of reallykind of do it on everything.
Speaker 3 (49:30):
Oh yeah, but I want to back up to something Charles
said, because I think that he'snot giving himself or the whole
APRO team a whole lot of crediton one thing One of the guys
that we're really working withclosely is Brandon Dawson, that
some people may know from aconsulting perspective, but one
(49:52):
of the things that Brandontaught me was be an owl Ask who,
right?
Who can help me get here, whocan introduce me to this person,
who can do this?
And I will say that when theleadership changed at APRO and
the mindset change was one ofthe things that y'all did is
y'all definitely asked who, andyou started looking at your
vendors, you started looking atother people that you work
(50:13):
closely with to say who can helpme grow this thing, who can
help me achieve this mission andwho can help me do that?
And I think that's huge,because when we ask people for
help, they help us get there.
Nobody can get there alone.
So I want to make sure thatthat was pointed out, because
you and I have talked about thatoffline, about the difference
there, but y'all really playedowls in that.
Speaker 1 (50:34):
Well, I got to say, in case anybody doesn't know,
Andrew is also part of the boardright, the vendor committee, so
he gets to kind of really getsome feedback and let us know
what's going on, especially atApril.
Going on at the show right now,at the RTO Show, World Show
2025.
Andrew, I really appreciate youstopping by.
Daniel.
I'm glad that you came by andsaid hello.
(50:54):
We're going to really startwrapping this up.
I know that we got so muchgoing on.
Speaker 3 (50:59):
I don't want Dennis to come over here and be, like
be like, yeah, he's about toyell and kick us out.
We do do a lot of cool stuff,so you should come by and talk
to us.
Speaker 1 (51:06):
All right, we'll come by and see the box store.
Listen, they are right here infront of us.
On what aisle?
Is that what?
Speaker 3 (51:12):
is it 500?
Speaker 2 (51:14):
yeah, I think we're 514 or 508 somewhere about
halfway down the aisle and I'lltell you I've I've been to their
facility and it is incredible.
It it's amazing what the thingis.
Speaker 1 (51:24):
Luckily, I was able to do the Ken Butler story over
there.
Yeah right and you know hewalked in like he owned the
place and he was all at home.
It was just kind of he was justlike.
You know I think my slippersare still down there and he just
came in and we just had like areally good conversation.
It was really nice to want tojust come back and come full
(51:45):
circle.
We've had some great guests ontoday.
We've really been able to talkabout some of the changes that
RTO is making as a whole, whichis something for me.
I'm very glad to see that we'regoing through this, the legal
advocacy that's going on rightnow.
I think there's a lot moreattention being put on the legal
advocacy part of what we do,and it wasn't like that and I'm
not saying it was never thisgood, I'm just saying that,
(52:07):
coming back to when we look atit now over the last couple of
years, wherever that chartstarts climbing, it was because
you know we're starting thefellowship program.
Is Vox doing part of thefellowship program too?
Speaker 3 (52:19):
We are involved in LegCon and do all all of that
and we haven't brought a fellowyet, but we're staying super
involved.
We're thinking about bringing afellow.
Speaker 1 (52:28):
I just want you to know the RTO show might be
bringing a fellow next year.
So if you guys are everinterested, let me know on how
that works, because we might dothat Also.
Not forgetting we're going todunk you.
Speaker 3 (52:42):
If, if if I want you to know this.
Speaker 1 (52:44):
Charles has so many accolades.
I was doing a little study onhim and, from what I understand,
charles actually has acertificate that he's certified
to be a CEO.
Is that not right?
You have a certified CEOcertificate.
Speaker 2 (52:58):
I just obtained one to be a certified association.
Speaker 1 (53:01):
He's certified with a PhD.
He's got a JD, but he'scertified to be a CEO.
If anybody didn't know that, hehas got a certification that
says he can do his job well inthe United States.
I wanted to say that out loud.
I remember that.
Listen.
Our sponsors we do want to saythank you to all the sponsors.
We've got Wild Brands, we'vegot Vox here, we've got JLR
(53:23):
America.
Hey, say thank you to all thesponsors.
You know, we got Wild Brands,we got Vox here, we've got JLR
America.
Hey guys, how you doing?
Everybody that's doing a greatjob.
Gerard Marketing, we reallyappreciate you guys getting
together, also as sponsors forthe RTO World situation here in
RTO World 2025, this would notbe possible without all the
vendors that we have comingtogether.
I know you were talking aboutit earlier.
(53:44):
Vox does a great job at reallyhelping us put all this together
.
You guys got to see their booth.
It's amazing.
There's literally a big bowl.
That's looking at the bowlthat's on this table right now.
Wanted you guys to know if youguys want to support us here, be
a vendor, come in support RTOWorld 2025, or you can support
the show by being a sponsor.
(54:05):
Hit me up at Pete at theRTOshowpodcastcom.
Let me know what you want to do.
We can work something out, butwe really need to.
I just want you guys to knowthat everything that you guys do
for us is getting everythingback to everybody else, and we
do appreciate that.
So, last but not least, charles, I'm gonna let you cut it out.
We have had a great hour so far.
Some great attendees stoppingby.
We've got Andrew, jeff and Mikestopping by and kind of, let us
(54:30):
know what's going on.
You ready to do this full time?
Oh yeah, no not yet I need youto be certified as a podcaster.
Speaker 2 (54:35):
I can tell you that you did the service.
Speaker 3 (54:37):
Hey, I know a guy that can make you a certified
podcaster certificate Add.
Make you a certified podcastercertificate.
Add that one.
Charles picked up two this week.
Speaker 2 (54:44):
Well, you might have two this week, well, I'll tell
you this, pete what you do withthis podcast is a great service
to the industry.
The stories that you're able totell, going and talking to
these people week after week,and what you do.
We're proud to be a sponsor.
I know Andrew is as well.
Thank you for what you do,because you're a big piece of
(55:05):
this industry, and the thingsthat we're trying to do with
APRO and to grow and share thegood news about what RTO is.
Speaker 1 (55:12):
Well, I couldn't compete with APRO or Vox.
I'd come up with a wholedifferent niche.
Speaker 2 (55:16):
I was like you know what Nobody's doing this.
We're going to go a wholedifferent direction.
Speaker 1 (55:20):
But I really do appreciate that, charles, and
it's about the passion.
I wouldn't do this if it wasn'tthe passion that I have for the
business and watching thepeople that go by right here and
their passion for the businessand enjoying that.
So I really appreciate you guys.
I appreciate you guys coming by.
We thank you for listening tothe show and I want to tell you
guys, as always, get yourcollections low to get your
(55:40):
sales high.
Have a great one.
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