Stop Letting Customers Walk Away: Rental Conversion Secrets

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Why do some rent-to-own stores convert 30% of their customers to new agreements while others struggle to break 20%? The answer lies not in last-minute sales tactics but in the entire customer experience journey. In this eye-opening conversation, Pete Shau and Jason Winters dive deep into the real factors that determine whether customers stick around after completing their agreements.

The modern rental customer has more options than ever before. With just a few taps on their phone, they can find comparable merchandise from countless competitors. What makes them choose to continue doing business with you? It starts with deserving their loyalty through exceptional service, clean stores, well-presented merchandise, and problem resolution that exceeds expectations.

We explore practical strategies for improving conversion rates, from the timing of customer outreach (60-90 days before agreement completion) to bundling complementary products that enhance their existing purchases. Learn why loyalty programs represent a massive untapped opportunity in the rental industry and how delivery personnel can dramatically impact customer retention through their service approach.

Most importantly, discover why the fundamental question every rental business should ask is simply: "Do you deserve their business?" As Pete emphasizes, "Your PIF conversion starts when you say 'Hi, how are you doing today?'" The entire customer relationship—not just the final sales pitch—determines whether they'll walk away or sign a new agreement.

Ready to transform your conversion rates? Email [e-mail] with your questions or connect with us on social media. Subscribe to our podcast for more industry insights that drive real-world results.

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Episode Transcript

Pete Shau (00:08):
Hello, welcome to the RTO Show.
I'm your host Pete Shau.
Today we're talking rent-to-ownwith my man, jason Winters.
He's co-hosting with me todayand we're talking operations, as
usual, because this issomething that I feel like I
love when we get back to thesethings.
I love it when we get back tothe day-to-day and say, hey, you
know what, this is really thebread and butter of what it's
all about, and I love meeting.
We get back to these things.
I love it when we get back tothe day-to-day and say, hey, you
know what, this is really thebread and butter of what it's
all about, and I love meetingpeople and I love talking to the

(00:29):
VPs and I love talking to CEOsand all the big guys.
But, honestly, this is for theGMs man, this is for the
salespeople that are listeningand really just need to
understand, like, how do I dothat?
How do I do that better?
And I'm not going to sit infront of you for three hours
with some video and go this ishow you do it.
I'm just going to have somereal conversations with Jason,
who's been doing this for yearsand years and years, and I think
together we have two wholeyears of rent.

(00:50):
I don't know, I'm just kidding,but we have, we've been doing
it, and something that we'vealways said in the past is, I
think we've learned by mistakes.
We've really kind of paid thattoll and so hopefully, if we can
have you make less and lessmistakes and kind of learn from
what we're doing, by all meanswe want to do that, and one of
the things that we talked aboutthat we were just I've seen over
and over again probablysomething that's on the newer

(01:12):
end, on the on the happening nowend of what's going on, is our
conversion rate in therent-owned industry is not where
it could be.
Now I'm not saying everybody,not saying everybody.
I've seen a couple of companiesthat are doing all right.
I've seen more companies notdoing all right than doing all
right, and you know there's alot of reasons for that.
You know you've got economicreasons.
People's dollars aren't goingas far, even if they have a job.

(01:33):
Some people don't have a job.
The economy is a little bit.
You know it's a little bit hardwhen you're paying for
groceries.
Your grocery bill goes up by$50 a week and you're trying to
still figure out your wants andneeds.
And so if you have somethingfrom rent to own, what do you do
?
You get to the end of it.
You want to get rid of it.
And the question is, whenyou're talking about the wants
and needs and you're talkingabout getting ahead because we

(01:54):
have to have the salespeople outthere who are aggressive enough
to say we don't want to push orforce a sale, but if there's
something out there that we canget, there is still some
expendable income out there howare we going to make it through
our days?
Because the truth is, this ishow we feed our families.
So how do we get better at it?
Jason, when we're talking aboutclosing sales, when we're
talking about the PIF conversion, the number one thing is and

(02:17):
when I say PIF, just that we'reall on the thing is paid in full
and early purchase option.
The early purchase option ispaid out during your cash.
You know they're in a cashsegment of your agreement,
whether it be three months, sixmonths, 12 months.
I've even seen on some I'm notgoing to mention who that is,
but they have a 12 month, sameas cash, agreement, and so now
they're coming to the end ofthat.
Whether they decided tosurprise you and say hey, you

(02:37):
know what I'm calling in today,I'm paying it out, I'm out of
here, or, if you know thatthey're coming up, paid in full.
Basically they took theagreement and they rode that
sucker all out for 24 months andnow you know that they're
coming up.
I mean, the first thing I'mgoing to tell you is where is
the first point of contact onconverting a PIF?
And I got to say it's like inmy book, in my life, it's 90

(02:59):
days out.
That's when you really startlooking at the PIFs, the early
purchase options.
They're kind of hard to squareoff because you could have a guy
the day before his earlypurchase option comes in, he
still drops a grand and he's out.
So when you're talking aboutconstant marketing, that's
always got to be out there.
But on the piff side I say itstarts 90 days out.

(03:19):
I mean, I think that's a decentpart where you start saying you
know what I need to get in thisperson's ear because I don't
want them to walk away 90 daysis good.

Jason Winter (03:32):
I think it's more important to have a process that
you do to try to mitigate it.
But I mean you could make anargument that it starts at the
delivery.
Yes, you know what I mean.
How'd that delivery go?
Did the delivery guy do a greatjob?
Did they take care of themerchandise?

(03:54):
Did they bring it?
That's the thing.
I think that the delivery setsup so much nowadays, especially
now, because that deliveryperson might be the only person
that that customer even sees,since they can do the whole
process online.

Pete Shau (04:08):
They can make their payments automatically.

Jason Winter (04:10):
They do it either, you know, probably auto pay or
on the phone or something likethat.
They're not even interactinglike they used to.
So maybe that is contributingto, uh, to why people aren't
converting as they, as they usedto.
But I I mean you always hearthe same thing at the end of
every payout.
You know, I just need to take abreak.
I need to take a break.

(04:31):
It feels good.
It feels good to pay somethingoff and then to know that you're
right back on the hook.
It's tough.
It's tough to overcome, but Ithink you know the service that
they get will indicate whetheror not at least you're giving
yourself a chance to get that.
Did they have a service problemin the time that they were

(04:51):
paying the contract out, and howdid you handle it?
Did you come over right away?
Did you fix it in asatisfactory way?
I don't even.
Did you get a loaner?
I guess I mean, I don't likeloaners myself.
I hate loaners.
I think that why would I wantto have to inconvenience this
customer twice if I could justdo a switch out with a similar

(05:12):
item, right, maybe one that'seven a little bit nicer, just to
make sure that they're happyand take care of the issue and
move forward.
How you handle that coulddetermine whether or not you're
going to get a conversion, coulddetermine whether or not you're
going to get a conversion.
You have to keep yourself inthe game and you have to.
They can get this stuffanywhere.
You know what I mean.
There's more and more options.

(05:33):
There's more and more placesthey can try out.
If there was anything thatsoured them on your service, why
would they give you theirbusiness again?
So it's really like checking inwith the customer throughout
the entire rental and throughoutthe entire agreement just to
make sure that you're doingeverything that you possibly can
to make sure they have a goodexperience.
That's number one.
I think that if you look atyour stores and if you have a

(05:54):
bunch of stores and you look atthem and you see the ones that
have a high conversion rate,when you go there, you can see
why.
You can see that the storelooks great, the merchandise is
moving, it's got all the partsand all the things that aren't
there on order.

Pete Shau (06:10):
Everything is being refurbished pretty quickly.
Well, the goal is to say I wantto keep doing business with you
.

Jason Winter (06:13):
Right, and why would they do that?
What reason have you given themto do that?
So, before we can think of somemagic spell that's going to
make someone convert, what arethey converting to?
Are they converting to more mehservice or are they converting?

Pete Shau (06:29):
to the top notch, the meh service, I mean that's the
biggest problem is meh like.

Jason Winter (06:37):
It's meh like you got you got stores like I'm sure
every company usually has a wayto kind of tell what you said
Google earlier and that's agreat way to kind of tell how
the store is doing.
Other store, other companieshave different ways to kind of
keep track of how happy theircustomers are.
You know they get they putreviews in.
Who puts in reviews?
People that feel strongly oneway or the other.

(06:59):
And in our business there's alot of reasons sometimes that
people would put in a bad review, like you know, and it doesn't
mean that we did anything wrongper se.
Maybe they didn't like thatthey had to pay for it in the
way that we needed them to payfor it, right.
Maybe they didn't get explainedthe right.
You know how this whole thingis and what rental means and all

(07:19):
that stuff to begin with, andthey just thought it was some
Amazon thing.
They clicked on and it showedup and that was so easy that you
know now he's now he's talkingabout I'm late, I need the
payment and all that they'regoing to put in a bad review.
Yeah, people that get extra wowservice, they're going to put in
a review.
Hopefully right.
And then what's going to makeit or break it, or tell you

(07:42):
whether you have a really goodstore or an okay store, is how
many of those people that arelike it was all right.
Like you know, they kind of theytold me a time and they were
kind of there on time and thatwas.
You know it was nice enough Iguess, and you know he could
have cleaned it, but you knowwhatever you know like those are
the ones you live and die bythat.

(08:04):
Those are the ones that, if youcan turn more of those into fans
and people that are, because ifthe only people that feel
strongly about your store arethe ones that had a bad
experience, then it's going todrown out.
You failed All of the good.
Yeah, it is, you have to havemore of the meh people kind of

(08:24):
like, in order to kind of drownout the bad.
There's going to be bad.
Every Google review.
It's not five-star Googlereview.
If you look around, almost noone's got five stars.
Five stars this is a five-starbusiness.
It's very, and if it does, it'sgot like six reviews.

Pete Shau (08:38):
Well, I mean because you have those people who didn't
have that experience and it'salways back.
I mean it's great to say thatbecause, starting in the
beginning, all the way throughthe relationship, all the way to
the end, what reason am Igiving you to come back?
Right, what reason?
Not only am I giving you areason to come back, because the
conversion rate is this.

(08:59):
The conversion is I havesomebody who has a current
agreement and I need to get themon another agreement as they
are paying out when they pay outor right after they pay out.
That's the conversion is how amI converting them into a new
agreement?
And being in the beginning ishuge.

Jason Winter (09:16):
So ideally they would convert before they leave,
right, or you know what I meanIdeally.
And you can do all kinds ofstuff Like, like you know, if
the payout is really low, maybeyou take care of it for them and
just to get them to pay on thenew thing.
You know I mean, and I've seena lot of stores handle it great,
like they got, you know, on thewall.
They got this huge wall ofpictures of them with their

(09:37):
customers, with their ownershippaperwork.
You know what I mean and theytake it seriously.
Those stores are going toconvert more because it's their
thing, like if you focus onsomething.
That's why what I said earlier,like you said, 60 days, 60 days
is my day Great.
That means that you at leastare focusing on it 60 days out.
Maybe you're trying to get awish list item.

Pete Shau (09:56):
So what do you start thinking about next?
What 90 days?
Yes, yes.

Jason Winter (09:59):
Yeah.

Pete Shau (10:05):
I mean, if they're not inclined to do it ahead of
time, it doesn't make it anyeasier at 90 days or 60 days,
because if you don't look good,what is it that they say?
If you don't look good, wedon't look good.
If you don't look good, thenthey might have already made up
their mind, whether it's on the90th day or whether it's on the
last day, that they don't wantto do business with you.
But they've invested enoughtime and money to say I at least

(10:36):
want to get through thistransaction.
That's the part that I don'tlike is like, if they can just
say I at least done this and I'mgoing to do enough business
with you to stop.
I don't want you to come get it, I don't want to have legal
issues, I don't want somebodyknocking on my door, I don't
want somebody calling myreferences, I just want to get
through this until it's over.
Well then, you failed, you'vegot to be on point from the
get-go.
But I do like the process ofsaying, okay, we've made it this
far, what are we doing now?
And the idea of a PIV iscompletely different than an EPO

(10:58):
, because as an early purchaseoption comes which number one, I
think they're always shotgun,unless you have somebody that's
actually taking the payments anddividing it up and you know
that it's going to come, becausethat's the way Juan pays it all
out.
You know, those are usually alittle bit more shotgun, a
little bit more.
I need to.
I need to be on my A game everysingle day because when that
guy comes in, if that guy or galcomes in and decides to pay it
off now I need to know how to,how to throw up these.

(11:19):
What are we doing?
How am I going to handle this?
And then you got the PI.
You know the PIF, the paid infull.
That's like.
I have a little bit of time.
I'm going to call you, I'mgoing to invest in you, I'm
going to definitely, if Ihaven't been doing this all this
month, for the last threemonths, I'm definitely going to
make sure you don't have abirthday in that timeframe.
Or if there's a special day andwhen I say special day you

(11:43):
might not know everybody'sspecial day, but February 14th
is a special day for everybody.
Christmas is a special day foreverybody.
Black Friday is a special dayfor everybody.
July 4th is a special day foreverybody.
You're covering three months.
There's only four differentthree months in a year.
So you're going to findsomething that works.
So, if you don't have abirthday, you don't have
something.
You got to follow that point ofreference and go hey, I need to

(12:03):
get in your ear, I need you toremember me.
And there's something that hasto happen.
When these last 90 days, last60 days, last 30 days where
you're going to go well, matt,you don't remember, that was a
pretty cool thing that thatperson did Then you're opening
up that conversation because thetruth is you're you're going to
live and die by what you havedone and and you know it's, it's
where everyone in your storehas done Well, and it's a.

Jason Winter (12:25):
it's a team sport.

Pete Shau (12:27):
So you know, somebody said to me one time have you
ever tried the upgrade?
And I've tried that before.
I don't know if it works asgood as it used to.
I mean, a lot of people arelike, yeah, I have 50-inch, I
don't know if I want to go to65-inch, go straight into paying
for it.
But one thing that I did likedoing, and it might work.
I'm not saying that it doesn't.
What we, what we used to call itis gifting.
All right, you paid this off,we're going to give it to you.

(12:49):
Why would I do that?
Because, dude, we've got this.
I never like using the wordupgrade because I don't want
them to feel like they just paidsomething for it.
They paid all this into it andit's not good enough.
So when are we gifting that one?
Who are you blessing thisamazing thing with?
Well, why would I do that?
Well, because this living roomhas USBs and LEDs and it opens

(13:13):
up by itself and it's got somecup holders.
And you know, I mean, at thetime that you came in, this
wasn't available, but now it is.
You don't want to be the onlyguy on the block without it,
right?
And so what do you think?
And I really want to get whatyour thoughts on this is.
You've got somebody that'scoming at the end of an
agreement, whether they're anEPO and they're doing it right
at that moment, or they're a PIFand they're coming into that

(13:34):
moment.
What is too much?
When you gift them on a newagreement, like some people go
OK, I give them $100.
I give them $100, right, I havea $100 gift card and they can
have anything.
Some people are like no, yougot to give them a month.

(13:54):
They get a month down,everybody gets a month.
Is there a line that you woulddraw Because there could be a
problem, said either way?
Well, if you don't give it tothem and you know that they're
going to pay out, why wouldn'tyou?

Jason Winter (14:03):
I mean it's got to be what they could get anywhere
else first.
If, like, if I could get thesame thing somewhere else
without having you know what Imean, it needs to be special.
I think, um, I still don't, Idon't know if it's a gimmick
type thing that's going to makethe difference.
I just I really do think it'sall about how they felt about

(14:24):
doing business with you, how theservice went and everything I
can't control.
Everybody wants a break from apayment.
I've paid stuff off.
I was super excited about it,and the part that I was excited
about was I didn't have thatpayment anymore.
So it's pretty tough toovercome that.

Pete Shau (14:41):
But guess what?
That's a number one.
I mean, what money did youpocket?
That's number one.

Jason Winter (14:49):
And you can't even .
I don't even know if it's thatinstant conversion is awesome
when it happens, but it's justso rare it's very tough to
overcome.
Like my bills are gone.
That bill is gone.
Now I have more money for therest of my bills, and when you
talked about it earlier,everything is kind of tightening
up at certain times a year orright now or whatever.

(15:11):
It's a tough thing.
I think the best thing you canhope to do, like I'd say you
could give a month up frontGreat, that's like kind of the
going thing, right, you get afree month.
On the next thing, there's yourbreak.
You got four weeks off of nothaving to pay anything.
That's pretty good.
That's a way to overcome theobjection.
But are you going to?

(15:32):
Okay, let's say they don'tconvert, what are you doing?
Are they just gone?

Pete Shau (15:37):
Are you calling them in a month or after they?

Jason Winter (15:39):
had their break.
When they say they had a break,what kind of break are you
talking?
Like month to month?
I don't know.
Four months, okay, four months,all right.
Are you putting them on acalendar four months from now
that says, hey, it's been four,you had that break.
How's that break been going?
That's great.
I was just calling back becauseyou said that you had wanted a
break and that about three, fourmonths down the road it's been

(16:02):
three, four months.
How many of those calls arehappening?
How many of those are actuallygetting logged for follow-up?

Pete Shau (16:08):
Well, that's a great question, Gino, because a lot of
the time when you're talkingabout conversions, you're
usually talking about aconversion within the same 30 or
60 days, I think.
I guess it depends becausesometimes, depending on the
business or how you run it, onceyou convert that month and that
customer has been out on thebooks as you bring them back on,
they're considered a newcustomer because they weren't on
the books.
So we don't, sometimes in ourhead, we don't consider that a

(16:30):
conversion, even though it is aconversion right.
So let's say that we're doingit by the book, we're just doing
whatever the computer tells usis a conversion, and whether
it's in the same 30 days,whether it's in the 60 days, but
let's just say it's in the samemonth and we convert it.
I think part of the idea isthat if we're going to keep them

(16:50):
loyal to us, how loyal have webeen to them?
Yep.
Another thing that I think issuper important is when a
customer pays out.
That's the worst time tointroduce them into something
that they could have takenadvantage of way earlier.
You want a customer that'sreally upset.
Tell them that they didn't havethe club at the end of their

(17:14):
agreement and something badhappened.
We live in the state of Florida.
Tell them that you know what Ishould have called you and said
you know this is going to be thesituation you know, I think,
and BMS has done something that,or Benefit Marketing Solution
has done something crazy, andthey're even covering, in some
situations, damage intelevisions.
That was something that wasnever, that was.
That's like a ground.
That's one of thosegroundbreaking things.
You know, very recently I wastalking to Leonard Alonzo from

(17:36):
JLR and he, you know, hementioned mattress encasements
and, you know, a little lightwent off.
I remember when that came out,I it is a big thing.
I mean.
I mean, nowadays it's likeyou're getting a, you're getting
a mattress without one.

Jason Winter (17:48):
without one, it's almost like what.

Pete Shau (17:50):
So, as they did that, it was one of those
groundbreaking things where it'slike, wow, that's really
awesome.
Let me not tell you about that,as you're having to pay off
this TV that you broke wheneveryou broke it, and then I tell
you you know what you could havehad?
This deal, investing in thosesituations so much earlier is so
much important to it's soimportant to those conversion

(18:11):
rates and it's so important toinvest in your own products.
Don't something Paul said I'mgoing to go into another
Paul-isms but stick to theagreement.
Stick to the agreement.
And it was like if I have itavailable, stick to it.
Say it, give those things upand let them know that it's so
important because if you wantthose conversions, they have to

(18:33):
come back for a reason.
That was one of the things too.
What about loyalty programs?
I think it's so hard in rent toown because I've man.
I've heard so many people likewe can do it, but we can't and
it's hard.
And how do you rate somebodywho has an EPO versus a PIV?
Right, so you have an earlypurchase option on somebody who
has it in the same as cash range, who invested the same as cash

(18:55):
money and this is the talkingpoint.
Or you have somebody who paidin full, which they do have
ownership and agreement, butthey've been way longer with you
.
Do you grade those guysdifferently?
The answer to me is I don'tknow.
I think I'm going to defersomebody, because here's the way
I look at it in a loyaltyprogram, because to me, if you

(19:17):
pay it out, you pay it out.
But is it a more point-drivensystem?
Is it a more discount-drivensystem because you've invested
more time and invested moremoney?
Do you get more of a payoutcredit because you've gone
longer or not gone longer?
Those are the questions thatcome up when I've talked to a
lot of people about loyaltyprograms and the rental-owned
business and they're like well,how do you judge that?

(19:38):
Do you judge somebody who's,let's say, had a rental right?
They didn't own it, they rentedit.
The average timeframe is betweenthree and four months.
It just depends on where youare in the country and how long.
Summertime might be less,wintertime might be more.
You never know.
It could be up and down.
And so what do I say tosomebody who's invested three
months into it and I invested insomebody who's 10 months into
it?
They both have a product thatcame back, it's rentable, they

(19:59):
both put money into it, butone's put more time into this
product than another.
Do you treat them differentlyin a loyalty program?
I don't know.
But if you're talking aboutretention, if you're talking
about payout programs.
How do you incentivize them inthose particular ways, not just
like hey, I'm going to give youa month free or hey, I'm going
to give you $100 off, but isthere a point program you say,
hey, you've paid off, you're adiamond customer, right, you're

(20:22):
gold You're a diamond.

Jason Winter (20:23):
You're platinum, you're platinum.

Pete Shau (20:25):
You are.
This Does that play a big role,do you?

Jason Winter (20:28):
think, are we missing the boat on that?
I do, I do.
I think that I'm going to tellyou, like just for myself, like
I order.
We order food from a fewdifferent places, a lot, right,
my family, like my kids, lovethis.
My wife wants that.

Pete Shau (20:47):
I'm in every single loyalty thing that you can
possibly it's stupid easynowadays to order, isn't it?

Jason Winter (20:50):
Well, yeah, but the other thing is too, is if
I'm going to go to Chipotle fivetimes, I'm getting a free
burrito, right, right, andthat's going to factor in to
where I go get that burrito,that's right.
Okay, so why would it be anydifferent for us?
So I do think that there issomething here that we need to
hash out as an industry, and Ithink there are some out there

(21:10):
doing it.
There needs to be some loyaltything, because everybody's doing
that now and they work LikeI'll go.
If I'm going to get somethingthat I wouldn't have got because
I was loyal to a company, I'mgoing to take advantage of it,
just to take advantage of it.

Pete Shau (21:27):
Just so you know, two years ago I was talking about
this in the RTO world about theloyalty program, because I saw
this a long time ago and I said,not even just to getting a
little bit off the PIF-EPOconversion but how about just
Reynolds period?
How about you coming, like yousaid?
It might really differentiatewhere I'm going to buy my next
product from If I know wait aminute I've got enough points to
either have a low down paymentor I get a longer same as cash,

(21:51):
or if I go over there, I canliterally walk in and walk out
in five minutes becauseeverything that I have is in
there A loyalty program, kind ofshow my card, hey, I want this,
and because I'm a member, Iain't got to do nothing but wait
till you get there to sign.

Jason Winter (22:01):
Well, not only that, you could have specific
events for diamond customersonly or where they get special.
I mean, we used to have that.
People used to take pride inthat.
We used to have it back in theday and it was a big deal for a
while and then they just gotaway from it, but I don't know
why, because I think maybe itdidn't work or it started to
kind of lose its popularity orwhatever.

(22:23):
But, yeah, you should rewardcustomers for staying with you
and being loyal to you.
So, yeah, I think it's afantastic idea and there should
be like tiers or perks orwhatever that they can earn by
paying on time, or you know whatI mean.
Like, why not?
Like, why not?
They should be like a wholefull-fledged card that has their
rent paid into a specificcategory.

(22:45):
Like, we have the technologynow.
One way that we could use thattechnology would be to keep
track and then they would know.
Well, I have $600 in credittowards an appliance at this
place and the next time I get anappliance, where am I going to
go?
The place that I have $600credit at?
Like, why wouldn't I go there?
All of the technology that wehave today, I think that it

(23:12):
would be a company that is veryforward thinking, that comes up
with a way to kind of quantifythat and say look, you know,
because the goal and when youasked earlier about like which
is a PIF versus an APO look, ouroverall goal should be
ownership.

Pete Shau (23:23):
Yes, I agree with that 100% of the time.

Jason Winter (23:27):
I want you to own this.
They didn't come in there tojust rent it and give you a
bunch of money and have nothingto show for it.
They didn't do that.

Pete Shau (23:34):
Right.

Jason Winter (23:34):
Right and I just unfortunately it doesn't always
work out, you know what I mean.
But the flexibility of ourcompanies, that is good, you
know what I mean.
The bill goes away, we canfreeze your payment, you can

(23:55):
pick up where you left off andnever go, you know.
So we kind of already have aloyalty program that's kind of
built into our process, rightand rto, like if someone returns
something you can pick up wherethey left off, and I think
that's pretty standard almost inevery company yeah, I think so
so that.
But why are we not selling that?

Pete Shau (24:07):
as a feature.

Jason Winter (24:08):
More I agree and when we do, because, in my mind,
when someone is having paymentissues, that's the first thing
you should be talking about iswell, you know, I can make this
bill go away and I can hold itif you're not using it every day
.
You know what I mean.
Well, I've got to go onvacation or whatever.
Well, if you're not watching it, I can hold it for you and then

(24:28):
bring it back the day you getback and you pick up right where
you left off.
That's a feature, that'ssomething that should be a way,
and you're offering a customersomething, a way to take
advantage of something that isnot embarrassing.

Pete Shau (24:43):
You know what I mean.
Right, right, right.
You did this on purpose.
This is part of the program andyou enlisted this.

Jason Winter (24:48):
You didn't part of the pro, like I want to take
advantage of the paymentprotection right on this in
bedroom set because I'm movingor whatever.
You know what I mean.
Right, great, so we should beselling that at all times.
But I think a customer thatmakes it to the end one of like
the best stores that I've everbeen associated with always had

(25:08):
huge payoffs and payouts,because that's what we always
set out to do.

Pete Shau (25:13):
Just so we're on the same page.
Any store that has a highpayout rate is actually a great
store.
A great store.
That's the goal.
That's the goal.
So if you have a store thatactually is getting a lot of
people to ownership, you have tobattle there.
I mean, just getting thosecustomers loyalty and getting
them to want to pay off with youis an absolute amazing thing.
Now, getting those converted,of course, is another measure,

(25:37):
another metric that we say, okay, well, now that they're back on
the business, it's exactly that, though.

Jason Winter (25:40):
It's a measure and in my opinion it's a measure of
the service that that store isgiving the experiences that the
customers have.
The experiences that theircustomers have.
They're not going to if youwere fantastic and you fixed
every problem immediately in theperfect way possible and things
went, they had a greatexperience.

(26:01):
When they came into the store,you had popcorn or whatever.
You know what I mean.
It was something fun going ongood.
Music Place looked nice, smelledgood.
People are happy laughing witheach other, you know like if
that happened, why wouldn't theynext time come back?

Pete Shau (26:17):
Yeah, yeah, like why wouldn't they?

Jason Winter (26:19):
But so often I just don't think that's the
experience that some of thepeople get.

Pete Shau (26:24):
Why, why, why, why, and that's kind of why we're
selling.
Why?
Why don't we have you?
Another thing that I you know,when I saw, you know I'm looking
at some pay.
You know some pips, some eposand I, and I don't want to I'm
not calling anybody out some ofus are doing it better than
others and some of us are notdoing that well, and I'm gonna
be honest with you.
I'm not.
I'm not calling anybody out,I'm not saying I'm good, okay.

(26:45):
What I'm saying is, as anindustry, I think we can get a
little bit better, especially inthese time and dates.
And there's a couple of smallfactor things in there, because,
to me, having somebody andstarting on that tip in the
beginning, that's a big factor.
Having somebody who iscomfortable enough with you to
want to come back, that's a bigfactor.
Now, some of the sales factorsthat fall into it is like, okay,

(27:07):
I have Betsy.
She has only been here for sixmonths.
How am I going to get her toconvert this?
She probably doesn't know allthe tactics that we're talking
about right now and she mightnot even really understand.
Like, hey, you have to have thedonuts and coffee out every day
, you have to have it vacuumedevery day.
But let's get a little bit pastthat and say what is it you say
on the rear line, and this isthe last line, right, we're not

(27:30):
at the beginning, is the frontline, we're at the back line,
we're at the end zone and we'regoing.
Okay, how do I convert thiscustomer?
And one of the things I thoughtabout is like, okay, if they
have something that they'repaying out, they obviously feel
like it was a good fit or theylike it, they want it.
It was something that theycherished enough to say I'm
going to go all the way, I'mgoing to run the mile run.

(27:50):
And it was like, well, throwinga solid conversion out there
would be great.
But just saying, hey, I want tosell this and I don't
necessarily have a reason torhyme behind it, it's like, no,
that's not how it works.
That's not how it works.
The reason to rhyme has to bewhat is the advantageous reason

(28:11):
to get this?
And then I thought, well, youjust bundle.
We bundle every day.
Why not bundle it?
Why not say you know whatYou're paying off?
A TV?
I'm going to give you a killerdeal on a stand sound, bar,
surround sound.
Well, you know what I'm payingoff?
The living room group.
Well, now it's time to get thesolid deal on the On the living
room tables, the lamps, the rug.
I'm paying out.
You know what is it that I cando to add to Give you a better

(28:34):
scenario?
Right, I just got a washingmachine.
Well, now you're going to getthe dryer.
I mean, this is the way itworks, you know, because you
know you're always in the first.
You're like.
You know they always go out atthe same time.
They always go out soon.
You need to get this one.
They need to match, and I wasthinking about that and creating

(28:55):
that sense of packagedness.
I don't know if I'm trying tothink of the best way to go.
Everything needs to go witheverything.
Definitely, part of theexperience is giving them all
the experience and trying to goback to what was said before.
It's like if I tell you thatyou had a club that was

(29:15):
available to you, but I didn'ttry to give it to you at the
time, that you probably couldhave used it before it got bad,
and telling you afterwards isterrible.
Just like if you have a paid infull, it comes in and I don't
give you everything available.
Well, you didn't want it atthat point in time.
Hopefully somebody tried tosell it and you say, but now
this would be the great time toadd a surround sound or the

(29:36):
sound bar, or you know the, the,the TV stand with the fireplace
that has that one built insound bar.
That just it just looks goodsitting there at night, Right
Cause you know sounds great whenyou're watching movies.

Jason Winter (29:47):
You know recently.

Pete Shau (29:48):
I say recently, within a year or two, me and my
wife got a fireplace andobviously it's not a real
fireplace.
I don't know anybody in Floridathat's going to buy a fireplace
unless it's built in.
But we got the cabinet, it'sgot the electric fireplace and,
lo and behold, there are nightswhere she will run that thing
and it looks good.
I mean, the lights are, thelights are turned down or
whatever, and it's really that'slike the brightest light in the

(30:10):
room.
But you know what, if I hadnever used it, I would have
never thought about it.
And somebody did pitch it to meand I'm not going to say that's
what sold it, but it was.
It was one of those things likeyeah, you know what?

Jason Winter (30:19):
That is pretty nice, let's push that on those
paid Like you're just not givingit like when you're selling to
somebody and you ask them like aprice range, you're trying to
stay in, right, like I want tospend about $20 a week.
Right, you should start withthe $20 a week stuff because

(30:43):
that's what they said, right,but then you should probably
also show them the $35 and $40 aweek.

Pete Shau (30:49):
stuff For a little bit more.

Jason Winter (30:50):
Well, and it's not even like I'm not trying to say
like well, just try to pushthem towards that stuff.
I'm just saying I would.
They should know about it, likethey should know about the best
possible deal, like they shouldknow about why this one is a
little bit more expensive,because why wouldn't they make?
They might make that decision.
Or maybe they get that one homeand they're not a hundred

(31:14):
percent happy, but they knowthat that other one is there
that they should have got, andthen we can always switch it out
, right.
So in order for you to givegood service, the customer has
to be happy all the way.
And like, and I just don't knowwhy a customer would be happy
to buy a brand new living room,like a couch and a love seat,
and then take it home and put itnext to their scratch, wobbly
tables that they had already andthe lamps that don't work, like
why would they be as happy asthey could be if you could find

(31:36):
a way to bundle it up and atleast show it to them and say
this could be your room righthere, like, and the other thing
is like in your store.

Pete Shau (31:44):
They shouldn't have to use their imagination to see
what that looks like it shouldlike.

Jason Winter (31:48):
the bed should be made with some blankets and the
dresser shouldn't be at thefront of the bedroom set, cause
nobody at home is going to putthat dresser at, or the
nightstands in front of them andsleep.
Looking at the back of themirror Right and no one does
that.
And you know what your brainsubconsciously thinks that's
weird.
I'm not buying that becauseit's weird.

(32:10):
It might be a perfectlybeautiful bedroom set if you put
the dresser where the dressergoes, the headboard where the
headboard goes and thenightstand and maybe a book open
on the nightstand and you know,you got a little turndown on a
bed and a bag from Big Lots for$40.
And lo and behold, they canenvision oh, I want my bedroom
to look like that.
No one ever walked in and saidI want my bedroom to look like

(32:31):
that.
No one ever walked in and said,I want my bedroom to look like
that stack of lumber over there,like it's short, stacked Right,
and you got to sometimes do itfor space, and I get it.
But it's the same thing whenyou walk into a store and you
see lines of appliances that areall singles and they don't
match and it just looks like alaundromat and I would much
rather have three sets on thefloor.

(32:53):
We got the good one, we got thebetter one, we got the best one
.
Which one would be like thisone does this much laundry?
Maybe you got a basket here andthen you got two baskets in the
middle and you got threebaskets on the other one.
Right, that's how it makes somuch difference, because if you
want to sell pairs, you got todisplay pairs.
You can't display a line ofrusty, you know, or no one got

(33:18):
the little little fingernailpolish thing out and did
anything to it.
They just slapped the tag on itand put it out Right With.
Your store is going to attracthow you look Like.
If your store looks good, rundown and not refurbished and
nothing's put together like itshould, the only people that are

(33:40):
going to choose to do businesswith you are those customers and
that's fine, because they needto buy stuff too right, and we
need to service them as well.
But if I want customers thatare going to maybe pay me all
the time on time and have that,they want to go up and they want
to, they want to make their,they want to have a big

(34:00):
improvement in their lifestyle,I have to have that available
and I have to have that store.
The people, the customers, canwalk into your store and within
15 seconds, tell if you aregoing to be a good or a bad
store period.
Yeah, is this going to?
Does it stink in here?
Is a?
Is everything hooked up playing?
Can I turn it on?
Can I look at it?
Is it a bunch of black screenson the AV wall?

(34:22):
Is there holes on the floor,like if they're disorganized?
If the store looks disorganized, that's what you're going to
get.
That could play into whethersomeone wants to keep doing
business with you or not,because I might still need that
living room or that bedroom orthat dining room table and then,
when I pay it off, you didn'treally give me much to make me
want to come back.

Pete Shau (34:43):
Are so incumbent on what's going on.
It's so important to not havethat one sofa out there that we
didn't clean that smells likeit's been in the back room for
three weeks, right, and you know.
Or worse, or worse, or worseweeks, right, and you know, or
worse, or worse, or worse, youknow there's.
There's the idea to that.
There's a preventative measure.
When something comes in, did itis something at the end of its

(35:05):
life cycle, do you have a tv,you know?
Did you end up and kind of goesback to the, the gifting, but
then also moving up, did you?
Did you pay something out thatthat doesn't?
You know, for lack of a betterterm, we're gonna, we're gonna.
We're gonna go backwards andthen go forwards.
If you pay something out thatdoesn't, for lack of a better
term, we're going to gobackwards and then go forwards.
If you paid out of VCR and nowDVDs are available, you paid out
your DVD, but now streaming isavailable on a smart app, you

(35:27):
have to know your products, youhave to know what they have,
because you never want to againundersell what they have.
You just paid us off.
It's not good enough.

Jason Winter (35:33):
You don't want to say that because number one,
that's not true.

Pete Shau (35:35):
And they have you just pay this off.
It's not good enough.
You don't want to say that,because the number one is that's
not true and number two is, Imean, they're going to value it
to some point.
They put money in it, but alsomoving forward into the
situation.
So you know, letting them know,hey, these are available.
That wasn't available.

Jason Winter (35:55):
But this is also something that came out that you
know, like was just that was,you know, this quantum LED Right
4K was the best, but now it'snot anymore.

Pete Shau (36:01):
You know, and now we're looking at like 8 million
different colors, now that theyhave, you know, a white LED in
there, and now they can displayall these different you know,
and the technologies that moveforward with it.
Or you know, maybe you know atthe time and again this really
depends on when it was, but youknow, we're trying to move

(36:21):
forward.
Now you had a coil top.
Well, you had a Euro top.
Now you have a pillow top ontop of that thing.
Well, now you have likedifferent types of tops that
land on foam mattresses.
And now, you know, you have asoft foam and a light foam and a
15 inch foam.
You have an eight inch foam.
Well, what's the difference?
Well, there's so manydifferences.
Now, back before that situationhappened, you're about to pay
off and it's like you know what?
Well, how?
About upgrading to this greatnew, shiny product that's on a

(36:43):
clean floor, that smells goodand I can display it very well,
right, right.
And you don't, you don't wantit to look like.
You know, you're picking theshiniest.
I don't want to say, I don'twant to say that out loud, but
you know, the shiniest turd in abowl, you know it's got to look
good, it's got to be presentedright, and when you're showing
that flagship situation, likeyou said, you've got to show
everything and you're kind ofgetting them to move up.

(37:04):
You can't be in a swap meet man.

Jason Winter (37:08):
And that's the other thing.
Like, you can see a store yougo into and they have all that
older stuff over in a section.
You, that older stuff over in asection.
You know all this, our discountsection, right, and I just I
always, whenever I see one ofthose, I just also, which
customers do you think onlybelong over there?
You know what I mean.
Do you think people want tobelieve that I belong in the, in

(37:29):
that section over there?
Like, do we have customers that, hey man, you got any repos,
like anything, that the peoplethat walk in they want the price
, they only want price.
We got to have that stuff.
But I would much rather mix itin, make sure it's presentable
and it's good as it's going tolook, and priced low, because
the only person that's going towant it is that guy that's

(37:50):
looking for a deal or that ladywith five dogs that's going to
eat the cushions.
Anyway, I just care abouthaving something to sit on.
Like I get.
You know what I mean.
We got those customers.
We need those customers to keepthat blood pumping.
I mean, the inventory is theblood of your store.
You're the manager is the brainand the salesperson is usually

(38:10):
the heart.
But the heart, the blood, isthe merchandise and you got to
keep it pumping.
And as soon as you startgetting a high idle or you start
, it just clots the system upand then the blood's not flowing
and then you're not getting thenew stuff that you can't order,
anything that is hot right now,that's selling itself.
And then I'm of the feeling ofyou've got to get aggressive

(38:34):
with the older merchandise sothat there are some great deals
for that customer that onlycares about price.
And I mean aggressive, liketake your lumps, like just make
it an unbelievable deal, likeyou've got to get this thing
discounted now so that whenpeople come in they might have a
preconceived notion that we'rejust too expensive or it's going
to be too high.
We've got to be able to maybeprove that wrong by having some

(38:54):
fantastic deals on the floor.
We've got to be able to maybeprove that wrong by having some
fantastic deals on the floor.
And what better than yourhigher idol used?

Pete Shau (39:00):
previously loved.

Jason Winter (39:01):
Pre-loved, certified, pre-owned merchandise
that you have, but it's got tobe a great deal.
And the people that havesomeone that are looking for a
deal, they're going to find that.
And then the people by contrastthere's going to be people that
I only want brand new Like Idon't want.
I want the nicest washer dryer.
I people that I only want brandnew Like I don't want.
You know, I want the nicestwasher dryer.

Pete Shau (39:19):
I want the nicest computer.

Jason Winter (39:20):
I have to have the fastest one, like I don't.
You know what I mean.
And just having that variety itcreates that balance of getting
all the types of customersagainst the rest of the
customers.
This one's just right.
It's not, it's not junky or oldand it's not brand new and it's
kind of decent price one.
This is the one for me.
That is what most of themerchandise is.
It's not junk and it's not new.

(39:41):
And then most of the of thecustomers are going to fall in
that middle where they don'twant to pay.
You know, maybe pay the big bigticket and then they won't,
they don't want that one becauseit's, you know, used or
whatever.
This one's just right.

Pete Shau (39:53):
Well, I mean there mean there's a thought too,
because something you saidreally stuck out to me.
We said it earlier what's thedifference between an EPO and a
PIF?

Jason Winter (40:01):
Nothing, no, they win the winner.
They got to the end of therainbow, they hit the goal line.

Pete Shau (40:07):
So you know, despite what might happen in a loyalty
program or how many points theyoffer or whatever the case is,
they offer or whatever the caseis, I think a good way to
convert a PIF to is startoffering some of the stuff that
might not be on the floor, or ahigher end special sale item.
We talked about processes.
You're on a 90-day, 60-day,whatever.
It'd be a good idea.
If you're going to order it,order it then so that by the

(40:28):
time they get to the end oftheir agreement, it's already
available to them.
And step them up and likelisten, this is what we have
available to us in store.
You know what the website lookslike, but we have some items
that we just don't bring inbecause they're too shiny, too
glittery and it's going to killeverybody.
But for you we will take a lookat it.
You want to know why?
Because that person is already,they're showing or they're

(40:50):
already there by hopefullyalready having a variant or a
myriad of EPOs and PIFs on theiraccount.
But if that's not the case,when you're getting to that 90,
60, 30-day range?
You're doing a sin if theydon't pay out you know what I
mean.

Jason Winter (41:04):
Yeah, and you definitely should.
Those are your best customers,right?
You know what I mean?
The ones that make it to thegold post and no matter how much
you had to help them orwhatever, they end up paying it
off.
It was a good bet to begin thedeal between the two of you.
They should just have carteblanche in the store, in my
opinion, if they pay it off inany fashion.
You know what I mean, Even acash sale, someone that just

(41:28):
does a cash sale right on thefloor.
I think there's a hugeopportunity for cash sales out
there in the rental and store wedon't take it much of advantage
of we should be better at it.
Because, why not?
And it should be the firstthing that you offer a customer,
in my opinion.
Why not start with cash and saywell, if you give me this, it's
done and paid for and that's it?
There's a train coming by here.

Pete Shau (41:51):
There is a train coming by.

Jason Winter (41:52):
It doesn't sound like it's in the studio was a
sales train maybe, but theoverall experience, from the
first order to the delivery, tothe service issue that you fixed
, all of that is going todetermine whether that customer
and how you treated them throughthe whole process when they had
a payment problem, when theymaybe didn't call you right back

(42:12):
, how you acted when theyfinally did get in touch with
you, all of that is going.
I think that that is moreimportant and more easy to focus
on than the tricks at the endof how to try to get them back
on, because if you take greatcare of a customer and you
handle the sometimes problemscan be the best thing that ever
happened to your relationship,if you go above and beyond to

(42:33):
make it right, the right way,because we're going to screw up.
We're humans.
You know what I mean Things aregoing to go wrong, trucks are
going to be late, stuff is goingto break and it is what it is.
How you handle it is going tomake that conversion happen.
So I look at PIF conversions asbasically payout conversions.
All the same, I just look at itas a gauge of the surface of

(42:53):
the location.
If you have low PIF conversionsor you know low, comparably, I
guess, to the standard right,because I think everybody wants
50% but I don't think anyone'seven near it.

Pete Shau (43:04):
No, I'm not saying 30 right now.

Jason Winter (43:06):
Right, 30 is probably great.
Yeah, Okay, so 30 is great Ifyou're at 22,.
Hey, we've got some work to do.

Pete Shau (43:12):
Yeah right, you know what I mean.
I mean you've got to judgewhatever your three-month
average or your 13-week averageis, but I would say you've got
to do 30.

Jason Winter (43:19):
You can fix anything.
You focus on anything, anythingat all.
One thing I learned at theMeeting of the Minds when we
went to the trip show this lastone in Atlanta, yeah, in Georgia
.
One in Atlanta.
I went to a lot of thebreakouts.
And I went to the breakout thattalked about how that I was
selling tires, and I went to theone about gaming computers and
I went to the one about cellphones right, and in each one of

(43:42):
those someone stood up and theygave a presentation about how
they're killing it with blankright.
They're killing it with phones.
This store, you know, in SanDiego's got 350 phones on rent.
Great, why?
Because phones are their thing.
They, they go to Leopard andthey order the box and they do
the whole thing and theyrefurbish it.

(44:02):
They got it down, they focus onit.
That's their thing.
I truly believe anything inthis industry you can do if you
focus on it, if you focus on thePIF conversions.
You can be fantastic at the,you know, like you know, getting
them to.

(44:22):
You can be fantastic at closingsales.
It doesn't matter if when thatthing broke down, they were
sitting on it.
They were a week without usingit.
He didn't take it seriously, hedidn't care.
They were paying for it andthey weren't even able to use it
.
And that time that one guy wassuper rude to me when he was
talking to me.
It doesn't matter, like thatstuff, but if you have a process

(44:46):
, like you said, 60 days youstart looking at it, start
talking about it.
We're getting close to the endhere.
What do you think you gotanything in mind that you were
thinking about getting next andthat they give you a wishlist
item of some kind, then get thatitem for them and then let them
know that it's there, say, hey,I got that thing for you.
You said you were looking for alaptop.
It doesn't have to be new, it'slooking in good condition.

(45:06):
It must have this, this andthis.
I found one, perfect for you.
Just let it know.
I mean, that is next level.
That's great.
You should do that.
That will get you conversionsfor sure.
Like because you focused on it,because you made it right and
you made it a priority, even ifit's once a week or twice a week
, you're like well, we're goingto get more PIF conversions.

Pete Shau (45:27):
Well, I, you know there's.
I mean, and I think the overallgist of it is, there is more
than one way to to skin this cat, because you know, because
there is that.
How do I do it?
Well, you have the processes.
Whether your processes are 90,60, 30, whether your processes
are whatever you have set up foryour company, follow the

(45:48):
processes.
But that's not the only way.
Okay, what is another way?
Closes when you have somebodythat's at the very end.
Do you upsell?
Do you add on?
Do you package?
Do you upsell?
Do you add on?
Do you package?
Do you special order?
What is it that you're doing toattract this customer who has
shown, regardless of thesituation, they're getting to
the end of that agreement, theyare somebody that you want to do
business with.
And then there's the okay, youhave this offer and you have

(46:08):
that offer, and then you have toseal the deal.
You need a one month off?
Okay, I can do that.
When you need a couple ofdollars off, the same as cash,
you know what I can do that youwant me to extend the same as
cash by a month.
If you have that possibility,okay, I can do that.
So you have the hook, you havethe processes, you have the
customer that you want to add on.
You know whether you're gifting, whether you're adding on,
whether you're giving more towhether you door.
Your PIF conversion starts whenyou say hi, exactly, how are

(46:41):
you doing today?
Your PIF conversion, your EPOconversion, your customer
conversions, to stay on the book, start the moment that they
walk in that door, and it's notfrom the third or fourth sale,
it's from the first time you saythe words hi, welcome to the
whole experience, the wholeexperience.
The whole thing, because you'reselling the whole enchilada.
And the truth is, what do theybuy?

(47:01):
Because you're giving a monthfree, because they're getting an
upgrade, because they have theability to get a discount, hey,
I'll give you a discount if youpay out now, if you open up.
Whatever the reason, the truthis the reason they're still
there is because they're doingbusiness with you Great.
Because they're doing businesswith you Great business.
And if they don't want to dothat, they'll take your sale,
they'll take your deal.
And you know what?
I don't know.

(47:22):
If I want to buy today, let methink about it.
Now I'm gone and we've said ita hundred times, we've said it
on previous podcasts.
When we say it today, they haveso many options that they can
go into their phone, they can dorelationship, they like the
business that you do, the waythat you tailor it around them,
the experience that they havewhen they walk in, when you're

(47:42):
with them, and when you're notwith them.
When you're behind the counterlooking up at something and I'm
not looking and I'm not seeingsix-legged creatures running
around, or I don't smellsomething, that something rotten
in Denmark, or there'ssomething rotten under that
cushion over there, or, you know, I come in and it looks, it
doesn't look good.
I've got a contemporary sofawith a you know a very modern

(48:03):
coffee and table set like ablack glass with like this brown
wooden covered, you know thing,and then I've got some lamps
that look like you know they'restraight out of Compton.
It doesn't make for a goodexperience, and so I think the
conversions, to say it safely,is everything.
You want to fix your conversionrate, you want to fix your EPO

(48:25):
rate.
You start at the beginning, youstart at the top, you start
with the person, you start withthe store, you start with the
representation, how you handleproblems and the problem.
Well, the service and theproblems, I mean that's huge.
How do you make it right Really?

Jason Winter (48:37):
how you make it right, because there's going to
be issues along the way.
How respectful are you whenthings are going wrong?
You know what I mean.
Like how much do you deservethe money?
I guess is the main.
Oh, that's good.

Pete Shau (48:50):
That's the first thing.
Do you deserve it?
Do?

Jason Winter (48:51):
you deserve the money Like.
I talk to delivery guys in carsall the time.
I'm like guys.
If a guy brings a pizza to myhouse, I give him five to six
bucks at least.
If he's super nice, I mightgive him more.
How are you not getting $15 to$20 every time you do a delivery

(49:11):
as a tip?
How?
Because, first of all, I can'tmake him tip you because it's
not.
You know that's just it's notbut you got to earn it and you
got to deserve it.
But if you deserve it everysingle time, guess what you're
going to be eating lunch everyday.
Because if you're the guy thatjust comes in and just, you know

(49:32):
, just shoves it in and, youknow, puts it wherever and
here's signing.
Here I got a lot of stuff to do.
I get it.
It's a hard job.
You're on the third floor man,you had to just lug that thing
up there.
If a guy that brings a pizza upthree flights of stairs gets
five bucks and you just carrieda motion sectional up there and

(49:54):
you didn't do it in a way thatmake the customer feel like you
deserve three, four, five, sixdollars, then you're probably
not doing it.
Great, you know.
But if you put the door jamprotector on the door and it was
wrapped and you brought it in,you unveiled it and you wiped
off your fingerprints and youhooked up the power on it and
you kicked it out anddemonstrated it for them and you

(50:16):
set up all their streamingthings and hooked up their power
on it and you kicked it out anddemonstrated it for them and
you set up all their streamingthings and hooked up their ps5
and you did all that and youused the windex to clean the
fingerprints off.
And because that customerwaited all day for you to show
up, that was a big deal, thatwas the biggest deal of their
day.
That they two to four.
They're coming, they're goingto be a two to four, now three
to five.
You start straggling up thereand you just here you go.

(50:37):
I'm sorry we're late.
You know it's John's fault, notmine.
So if you do that, you don'tdeserve a payment.
You don't deserve for them tostay with you when things get
rough.
You don't deserve any of that.
You don't deserve a tip, that'sfor sure.
But if every single deliveryperson that we had working for
our company did a good enoughjob to deserve a tip, that means

(51:00):
we're going to deserve ourpayments.
We're probably going to deservethem on time for the most part
too right, we deserve yourbusiness.

Pete Shau (51:07):
You got to deserve it .

Jason Winter (51:09):
You're going to get great conversions if you
could deserve it.
So you want to focus ondeserving it.
Do you have littleget-togethers?
I see a lot of our regionalswill have.
Well, they'll go out to fivedifferent customers that have
paid out, that have notconverted, and just bring them a
little gift or a little giftbasket from Dollar Tree or

(51:31):
something.
It doesn't have to be expensive.
Just say, hey, we're bringingthis by because it's Mother's
Day and we just wanted to sayhappy Mother's Day to you.
You know what I mean.
We miss you up there.
If you ever need anything,you're good to go you just
reminded me of something.

Pete Shau (51:41):
It's a beautiful thing.
It was a story that I read andit was about an old and I think
it was a Jaguar.
I think it was Jaguar.
It could be wrong, it was,let's just say, right.
So this high end system was nodifferent than any other car.
It was a car.
This is probably like late 80s,early 90s, and so, you know,

(52:02):
back then everybody had a tire,everybody had a jack, OK, you
had your little tools and stufflike that.
So this guy who's buying carsgoing through, for some reason,
he had a flat tire, ok, and atthat particular point in time
the higher end was going to theeither the airless or you just
don't have one and cause theyhave this service right, and so

(52:22):
he's going through and he'salways checking, he's always
checking it, and so he's tryingto make a decision between one
brand and the other brand.
Not much different, okay, andand I'm not going to call out
names here I think it was likelike Jaguar versus BMW or
something.
It was nothing crazy.
You know fast engine, big trunkspace, looks good, leather, you

(52:43):
know, back then at you knowpower seats, and it had a CD
player or you know six changerin the back.
And so what he did what hedidn't tell the salespeople was
is that my decision is going tobe really be based on if I can
get the damn tire out of thewheel.
That was his thing.
Like he was getting a littlebit older he was probably in his
mid fifties, you know, earlysixties.
He's like can I get the tireout If I'm stuck with my wife?

(53:06):
I don't.
I've already bought the car.
It's mine, I don't want to bestuck on the road somewhere.
So that was his bit and hedidn't tell anybody.
That's just what he's doing.
So he finally gets to thesecond car.
So you look at the first car,which I believe was a bmw I
could be wrong.
He goes the second car.
He looks to it.
It's like they were both easyto get out, except he's going
into the back of the jaguar.
He's looking around, he's likeokay, jack's good.

(53:29):
Now the guy's selling, he'sselling the wife in the front.
You know.
He's looking at the back.
He's pulling it.
Okay, it up.
I've got a little twist offthing, I can get a jack.
And he sees this little bag,this little bag right next to it
.
What the heck's in the bag?
It's kind of sealed.
I don't want to take it out,but I'm curious what's in it.
So they're talking about the car.
It's nagging him the whole time.
They go in to buy the car.

(53:53):
Oh guy says I'm glad you.
He goes in there and it's a setof white gloves.
The guy bought the car.
Okay, he researched the gloves.
Those gloves cost about $1.50.
But because they went just thatmuch farther, just they're

(54:16):
white.
Who's going to?
They're white gloves.
You're going to change the tire.
Anything you touch is going tomake them really look, and he
just made a $50,000.

Jason Winter (54:25):
Purchase for $1.65 extra.

Pete Shau (54:28):
Because he said you know what, I can pull the tire
out on both, I can change it onboth, but this one I won't go
home looking like I just toresomething apart.
And that $1.50, that visit to acustomer's home, that small
investment, just a little bitmore it doesn't take a lot Than
the guy next to you To go frommeh to wow.

(54:52):
And that's never left me, thosesmall things having a candy on
your counter, making sure thatyou say hi and bye, making sure
that you stand up and you shakesomebody's hand when you.
You know it's the small thingsthat make a difference.
They will come back to you.

Jason Winter (55:05):
And I worked your time like look everywhere around
us right now, within a threemile radius of here, there's
people sitting on coucheswatching big-screen TVs, playing
video games, using their laptopto surf the web, cooking their
dinner in their kitchen, withtheir appliances, washing their

(55:26):
clothes.
Every single person has thesethings that we carry, that we
are renting.
We're selling Every single one.
We don't have to convince themto buy it, they already are.
We just have to sell themourselves and our process and
our transaction.
So where they get those thingsis up to us.

(55:50):
And so many times we're waitingin the store for these sales to
happen when we haven't locked inthat the customer that we do
get gets a great experience, andthen we're just waiting for
them.
Well, they know where I am, sothey'll probably come in here.
If they want some stuff, godright, but at any point, you
could just go to the apartmentcomplex.
It's like when I visit stores,I always ask them what kind of a

(56:13):
you know?
Can you guys got any apartmentsaround here?
They always say, yeah, yeah,yeah, I got this one and that
one and I said, great, great,you guys, can you guys got any
apartments around here?
They always say, yeah, yeah,yeah, I got this one and that
one.
And I said oh great, great youguys which ones you guys got a
lot of customers at.
Oh, this one over here.
I say, well, what's the lady'sname in the office?
And they never know.

Pete Shau (56:28):
The collections guy knows, but they don't.

Jason Winter (56:30):
The collections guy might know, but the
salesperson definitely doesn't,and that person in the office
could probably send me an untoldamount of customers if she was
properly motivated by maybegetting a referral week.
Every single time someonerented in that plaza.
I go by and I bring her somecookies once a month.
Hey, how are you doing?

(56:50):
You got any flyers?
I'm just going to put someflyers up here.
If you guys ever need anything.
You want to have a little partyin the, I'll bring you a TV and
that's how you got to do it.
Like if you own the place,that's what you do.

Pete Shau (57:02):
Well, I mean, how many, how?
How much more is a customerinclined to keep on doing
business with you If you've beenable to reduce the amount of
payments or reduce the pricethat they would pay on something
by just referring somebodyright and then getting that
money to really offset whatthey're paying and you really go
.
Okay, I could have paid this, Idid pay this, especially when
you have somebody who in thoseoffice environments or in those

(57:22):
high traffic environments thatcan keep on sending people your
way, I would totally charge offan entire living room set and
give it to you.
If you've given me 15, 20people, I would.
I would do it because you knowwhat, in the end of the day,
whether they all pay three orfour months, we have a
conversion rate, number one andnumber two.
We have a payoff rate.
One or two of those are goingto happen of each category at 15

(57:45):
customers, plain and simple.
I'm going to get stuff paid off, I'm going to get stuff EPO'd,
I'm going to get stuff that isgoing to be worth having and
getting back and be able toresell that which benefits the
company.
I would totally do it.
What color you want, right?
But it's always like well, willyou?
Well, how many times did younurture that?

(58:08):
Did you go over there and keepin touch with that person?
Did you keep on reminding themthat that's what happens when
they get their referral?
Did you really hold true?
Do you deserve the referral?
Do you deserve it?
Well, listen, guys, if you wantto get a payout, if you want to
get an EPO conversion up, thequestion isn't can you, it's?
Did you deserve it?
I love the idea.
You've got to deserve it and itstarts from the beginning all
the way to the end, therelationship, and it's not just

(58:31):
about the processes at the end.
It's important, but it's notthe only thing.
That's going to get you guystaken care of Now.
If you want to talk about itmore, we'd love to hear about it
.
Send me an email and go onlineand submit.
But, pete at thertoshowpodcastcom, or you can
submit anything on the websiteat the rtoshowpodcastcom.
That's an amazing place.
You can hit me up at the DMs onFacebook, instagram, linkedin,

(58:54):
now YouTube.
Don't forget to subscribe.
You know you can ask Jasonanything you want.
Hit me up and we might haveanother one to follow up on how
to get really good at yourpayoff conversion.
But it's something that wethought was a good idea to talk
about, and I think I'm glad thatyou guys stuck around and
listen to it.
Listen, I want to tell you guys, as always, I got my red on
today.
I didn't just so you know.

Jason Winter (59:12):
I, I, I didn't.
I didn't tell Jason about it,but I got my shirt, so this is
the red shirt, okay.

Pete Shau (59:19):
This is stands for.
Remember everybody deployed.
I did get this from Vox Populi,who is a great sponsor of this
show, and I want them to know,and I want you to know that I
support the people that are outthere, whether you're here in
our country, whether you're aveteran or the people that we
remember on Memorial day.
We owe a lot to you, theveterans, the people who have
done a lot, and we want to makesure that we give back.
So every time that you buy ashirt, just so you know it does

(59:41):
give back.
But if you want to buy moreshirts, you're more than welcome
to go to the RTOshowpodcastcom.
Buy some swag there, don'tforget.
It does help out the show andmore than not, you get to rock
these beautiful shirts out therein the world, there in the
world.
And when they tell you where'dyou get your information from?
You got it from Jason Pete onthe RTO Show podcast and listen.
I would tell you guys.
As always, jason, I doappreciate it.
Get your collections low to getyour sales high.

(01:00:03):
Have a great one.