March 7, 2024 • 26 mins
Embark on a journey of professional transformation with me, Corey Rivera, as we break free from the confines of routine massage therapy practice. Our latest Rub episode invites you to discover the untapped potential of interdisciplinary collaboration, with valuable takeaways from the Shiley conference in palliative care. Dr. Melinda Kavanaugh joins us, bringing her passionate insight as a social worker and researcher, to illuminate the powerful synergies that await when we step out of our comfort zones. The episode promises to equip you with a new perspective on how massage therapy can integrate into broader healthcare paradigms, and how stepping beyond familiar territory can lead to growth and impactful connections.
Tune in for tips on getting the most out of your conference experiences. Whether you're seeking education, promotion, or networking opportunities, you'll learn how to craft a strategy that aligns with your goals and the event's offerings. From the subtle art of commanding attention and sparking enriching dialogues to the merits of solo dining for recovery, this episode serves as both a guide and an encouragement for health practitioners of all disciplines to seize the day. Don't miss our conversation if you're ready to embrace new opportunities, expand your professional network, and foster the kind of growth that only comes from stepping boldly into new experiences.
Write to NCBTMB about what they should include as approved CEs!
Dr Melinda Kavanaugh's Youth Care Giving Program YCARE
Dr Katie Robinson
Conference Information:
Shiley National Symposium
NHPCO
Black Massage Therapist Conference
C-TAC | CAPC Leadership Summit
International Pain Summit
Fascial Research Congress
McGill International Palliative Care Congress
Send us an email: podcast@healwell.org
Leave us a voice message: 703-468-1799
Check out our interview-style podcast: Interdisciplinary
You can support Healwell and the cool things we make by donating here!
Ways join in:
- Leave us a review on Apple Podcasts
- Check Healwell’s live and online classes
- Continue the conversation with a free 3-day trial of the Healwell Community
- Find a copy of Rebecca Sturgeon's book: "Oncology Massage: An Integrative Approach to Cancer Care"
Thank you to ABMP and AMTA for sponsoring us!
Healwell is a 501(c)(3) non-profit based out of the Washington DC area. Check us out at www.healwell.org
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Corey Rivera (00:07):
Welcome to the Rub a Hewile podcast about massage
therapy.
We say the quiet things loud,have a hunger for change and a
desire to connect the dots.
I'm your host, corey Rivera,licensed massage therapist and
information magpie.
In today's episode, we're goingto talk about the three steps
of conferencing and why youshould take a chance on an event
that isn't massage focused.
First of all, there ain't nosilo like a massage therapy silo
(00:39):
.
It is completely normal for amassage therapist to go from
their small entry level classstraight into private practice
without ever looking up once.
Once we have our license if ourestate even requires a license
it's up to us to decide whatkind of education or training to
take.
Anything that isn't approved bya continuing education board
doesn't count for relicensing,and if you work in a franchise,
(01:01):
they probably have their ownideas about what you should know
.
This doesn't exactly encouragecuriosity or exploration.
So why would you go tosomething as big as a conference
if it doesn't get you credit?
Because, my friends, there is awhole world out there waiting
for us and they have no idea weexist.
Melinda S. Kavanaugh, PhD, (01:20):
Well , I think it.
I mean, we go through life andwe know things right, or we?
think we know things that arekind of in our everyday
experience.
But then when you takesomething like massage or
massage therapy out of itslittle box in my mind it's
always been in right and thenyou blow it up.
(01:40):
You blow it up and it's all ofits opportunities and
possibilities and what thatmeans for not just kind of rehab
or health or wellness butreally part of you know we're
speaking about the Shileyconference in palliative care
but like that role of massagetherapy in treatment in a way
(02:04):
that I just hadn't reallythought about before.
Corey Rivera (02:09):
That was Dr Melinda Kavanaugh.
She's a social worker,researcher and educator at the
University of Wisconsin inMilwaukee.
She was one of the organizersof the event we went to in
February of 2024.
Melinda studies and createsprograms to help the wildly
underserved group of caregiverswho are under the age of 18.
When I think about Melinda, shestrikes me as an unstoppable
(02:31):
force.
She's committed to helpingthese kids.
Despite the fact that peopledon't want to discuss it because
they think it shouldn't behappening, she keeps moving
forward.
Hot tip when you're looking forallies, look for unstoppable
forces.
Okay, you may have noticed thatconference titles are meant to
(02:52):
be read and not set out loud, sobear with me.
We went to the NationalSymposium for Academic
Palliative Care Education andResearch held by the Shiley
Haynes Institute for PalliativeCare.
From now on I'll just call itShiley.
The Shiley Institute is a partof California State University.
It teaches palliative careskills to a bunch of disciplines
at many levels, like students,professionals and the community.
(03:14):
The Shiley conference was heldin San Diego and it was about 40
degrees and rained the entiretime Straight up.
It was warmer at home inMichigan than it was in
California and everybody I metfrom California apologized for
the weather the entire time.
We were there, as they should.
Okay, national Symposium.
(03:35):
Are you wondering what asymposium is?
In practice, it usually meansthe same thing as a conference,
but its original meaning inGreek is something like a
drinking party and or excellentdiscussion held after a banquet.
Shiley had food, they haddrinks and they definitely had
excellent discussion.
A plus, before we get to thethree steps of conferencing, I
(03:58):
want to tell you the mostimportant thing I learned at
Shiley.
Folks, we are not the only ones.
Massage therapy is so closedoff from other professions it's
hard to know if what weexperience is common or abnormal
.
Here are two things that arecommon that I thought was
totally us.
The first is that everybody isintimidated by the results
(04:18):
section in a research paper.
I was at a workshop with asmorgasbord of health
practitioners talking aboutresearch and everybody in the
room got uncomfortable when wegot to the numbers part.
It's not just us.
Everybody thinks they're toodumb to understand the numbers.
The second thing I found out hadto do with the exhibitor tables
.
I hate going to a conferenceand seeing the trash people are
(04:40):
selling, from plastic chakracrystals to incredibly
overpriced face cream, to YoungLiving's predatory multi-level
marketing scheme.
Yes, I totally just said thatout loud.
But you know what?
Two out of the ten exhibitortables at Shiley were red light
therapy for skin, the newestgadget available to keep you
feeling bad about how you look.
The people manning the boothswere absolutely gorgeous humans
(05:04):
who stared daggers at each otheracross the room.
All of a sudden, I felt betterabout the weird things that show
up at our conferences.
Apparently, everyone has aweird thing that shows up.
It's expensive to host aconference and while I'm a
little on the fence about theethics of letting things like
multi-level marketing into yourevent, does it kind of suggest
you're okay with it?
I mean, get that money Okay.
(05:32):
We've talked about what I'velearned.
Now let's turn to the threesteps of conference going.
Step one know why you're going.
Step two understand how youwant to interact and how you
don't.
And step three overestimateyour recovery.
Step one know why you're going.
(05:53):
One of my favorite books isQuiet the power of introverts in
a world that can't stop talking, by Susan Cain.
It has an idea called the CorePersonal Project.
These are projects that thrillyour soul and can push you to
work outside your comfort zone,whether you're fired up being
around people or happiestscouring documents in a wingback
chair in front of a blazingfireplace or maybe that's just
(06:13):
me.
Anyway, your personal projectsinspire you to take action and
also to act out of character.
It's important that you takeinto account the cost of these
actions, which we'll talk moreabout when we get to step three.
Your core personal projectshould help you decide why you
are going to a conference.
Are you in to help peoplecommunicate?
Check out a social work event?
(06:34):
Are you interested inrepetitive stress injuries?
Maybe a physical therapy eventis for you?
There are all kinds of validreasons to attend a conference.
You could go just to learn.
You could go to have a newexperience.
You can go to network.
You can go to have fun and seeyour people.
You can go to have fun and findnew people, like our friend
(06:56):
Sakina, who went to the firstBlack Massage Therapy Conference
in October of 2023.
Sakinah Irrizarry, LMT (07:01):
It met and surpassed all expectations.
When I heard about it I wentback and forth about going,
because I Because travel is notalways my jam but see, I figured
this would be my best chance tosee and meet and talk and Face
(07:22):
time with people.
Upon arrival At the conferencethat morning I didn't stay in
the hotel where the conferencewas held.
A lot of people stayed.
I tend to do, you know, I wantto crawl back off into my hiding
hole.
Whenever I'm so I have to havevery much my own space for no
(07:43):
one can find me.
But so I didn't stay at thehotel.
So I arrived very early themorning of the conference and
the first thing I walk in and Imeet a black massage therapist
from Anchorage, alaska.
Wow, all the way from Alaskaand I'm like and now New York
just doesn't seem that far awayfrom the airline at all.
Corey Rivera (08:07):
Sometimes it's really just enough to get people
thinking about massage therapy.
Just being in a space can bringattention to what massage
therapy has to offer.
Here's Cal Cates, executivedirector of Healwell.
Cal Cates, LMT (08:19):
I Think my approach is to demonstrate that,
as a massage therapist, I'malso thinking deeply about the
other questions that havebrought all these people to this
conference and that I feel likemassage therapy, the cultural
understanding of massage therapy, is so sort of limited, and I
don't I Don't think most people,certainly people in healthcare
(08:41):
would consult a massagetherapist about the big
questions of patient outcomes orSatisfaction or access or
things that are sort of thebigger problems in healthcare.
So I feel like by asking thosequestions and making it clear
from the outset I'm coming atthis from the massage therapy
perspective.
It sort of turns heads in thisway that like, oh huh, well,
(09:05):
massage therapists think aboutstuff that's that's so
interesting.
Corey Rivera (09:11):
And here's Melinda , the unstoppable force, talking
about how meeting us kind ofchanged her mind.
Melinda S. Kavanaugh, PhD, (09:18):
Yeah , and I have to say Genuinely,
what was really fantastic aboutit was it wasn't just like, oh
wait, massage therapy can, cando this, and it's like totally
different and my brain is moving.
But I have to be very honesthere.
It was the experience ofmeeting and interacting with you
(09:40):
and Cal particularly.
Both of you Brought it home ina way.
You were so open and engagingabout it and both of you really
we're like hey, what do youthink?
Like no, what?
So I think that was really that, to me, made a lot of
difference.
Corey Rivera (10:00):
Knowing your goal will help you make plans, so
you're less likely to feel likeyou've wasted your time and
money.
And Keep in mind not allconferences are created equal.
It isn't just about why youwant to go.
It's about why the hosts areholding it in the first place.
So make sure you know aconference's goals before you go
.
Most massage therapy conferencesare about continuing education,
but there are other reasons togather.
(10:21):
Sometimes it's education,sometimes it's promotion.
You need to be more carefulabout what you're doing here.
Sometimes it's education,sometimes it's promotion.
You should be able to tell theevent's goals from browsing
their website.
Check out who speaking, look atthe topics.
Read there about us blurb.
Don't be intimidated if itdoesn't say anything about
massage therapists.
Remember people simply don'tthink about us at all.
(10:42):
That doesn't mean you don'thave something to offer them or
a ton of new things to learn.
The Shiley event in Californiawas about education and fostered
an atmosphere of collaboration.
It lent itself to a moreintimate setting of around 150
people.
Larger conferences, like theone held by the National Hospice
and Palliative CareOrganization, or NHPCO,
(11:02):
regularly have over a thousandpeople and are just as much
about seeing and being seen asthey are about finding people to
work with.
There's nothing wrong with ahundred people or a thousand
people, but know what you'restepping into before you buy
that ticket.
All right.
Step two understand how youwant to interact and how you
don't.
(11:22):
What interactions make sense foryour goals.
Small groups and workshops areawesome places to have
conversations.
I much prefer going toworkshops where there are
planned activities.
Those plenary sessions, theones where a person stands and
talks at a podium, aren't reallywhy I'm there.
They can be super interestingand can be great conversations.
Start with a little bit of aconversation.
They can be super interestingand can be great conversation
(11:44):
starters later.
But I can watch webinars allday at home at a conference.
I want to know other people'sthoughts and experiences.
The best event I went to itShiley was a workshop on
bioethics.
The professor running it hadn'tprepared anything because he
wanted to hear what the peoplein the room are struggling with.
For 20 minutes I listened tohealthcare professionals who
work in the same healthcaresystem discuss talking to
(12:05):
patients about assistedend-of-life care.
Nobody had the same directions.
Everyone was confused anddistressed and no solutions were
offered, because that wasn'tthe point.
The point of the workshop wasfor people to express themselves
in a safe space and know theyweren't alone.
Another way to interact if youare feeling frisky is to ask
(12:26):
questions of the microphoneafter people give their
presentations, like Calcatesdoes.
Cal Cates, LMT (12:32):
Yeah, I think when I go to a conference under
the auspices of Healw ell, I'mlooking to invite people to
think about massage therapy fullstop.
That you know.
I go to health care conferences, palliative care conferences,
hospice conferences, and even ifI'm not presenting, I try to go
(12:54):
up to the microphone and ask aquestion, where typically they
want you to say your name andwhy you're there and sort of
what your discipline is.
And so then I get to become theperson who wants to talk about
massage therapy.
Corey Rivera (13:06):
Also in the category of interacting.
Think about who you want tomeet.
Notice what questions peopleask.
If they intrigue you, you canseek them out later with a.
You were at that rubber duckysession earlier.
I liked your question aboutlimited edition rubber duck
collecting.
It made me curious about yourexperience collecting rubber
duckies.
Also, notice what people arewearing.
(13:27):
When you live in a college town, like I do, spirit wear just
kind of appears in your closet.
My Michigan State sweatshirt'salmost unfailingly caused
someone to yell go green at meat the wildest moments.
The proper response, by the way, is to scream go white right
back at them.
It's a great icebreaker.
Alternatively, talking tosomebody for two minutes and
(13:49):
exchanging business cards isgreat.
You can catch up with peopleafter the event is over.
Learn about that in step three.
Sometimes knowing how you wantto interact is about not
interacting.
For those of us who getoverstimulated, here's some
tricks I've picked up.
Scope out the quiet places andthat way you know where to hide
(14:09):
if you need some down time.
There's this introvert trickcalled owning the room.
It's fantastic and I use it allthe time.
It involves getting to alocation earlier than everyone
else and staking out of space.
This is not difficult for mebecause I have anxiety about
being to things on time and I'malways quite early.
Now when people enter the room.
(14:30):
They're entering your space,you're not intruding, and, of
course, you will be wonderfullygracious and welcoming when they
get there.
This also forces other peopleto open the conversation with
things like is this seat takenand is it okay if I sit here?
Know how many people are toomany people for you?
(14:51):
Once about four other peopleenter a conversation, it can be
difficult for me to process,especially if I'm already
nervous or uncomfortable.
Okay, this one is reallyimportant.
I hereby officially absolve youof the pressure to eat with
other people.
Food is complicated and thatmight only get worse if you're
(15:12):
supposed to be talking andeating in front of people at the
same time.
There is nothing wrong withgrabbing a plate and walking
away from the crowd, maybe tothat hidey hole you scouted
earlier and maybe back to yourroom.
Eating is important becauseconference days can be long, but
you should eat when and how iscomfortable for you.
My last advice Stay on site ifyou can.
(15:36):
The biggest regret I hear frompeople is not staying in the
hotel where the event is.
Here's Sakina again talkingabout the Black Massage Therapy
Conference.
Sakinah Irrizarry, LMT (15:45):
Well, I'll say this, as far as the
ability to build community, andquickly, one of the reasons why
I actually now regret that Ibuilt in my escape hatch is
because I built escape hatchesinto many social interactions,
one of the reasons I actuallykind of regret it.
(16:06):
I'm kind of like is because Icould clearly see how people
arriving the night beforealready knew each other.
Already knew each other fromthe night before.
Community was already beingformed.
Community was formed.
As soon as I walked in the doorI could see community had been
(16:30):
formed from just one night prior.
It was really amazing to justbe with a lot of people who work
in the same profession thatlook like me.
Corey Rivera (16:46):
And here's Rebecca Sturgeon, Hewels Education
Director.
Rebecca Sturgeon (16:51):
Honestly, I think if I do go, I will stay at
the resort while the conferenceis happening, because I think
that there's opportunities, notthat your whole life has to be
networking when you're at aconference.
But there were people there whoI just thought were interesting
people, you know, and it wouldbe nice to have a chance to talk
to them when we're not likewhen's the next session start?
Corey Rivera (17:14):
Sometimes it's the informal version of the
symposium, the drinking andconversation but are the most
fun and, surprisingly, the mostproductive moments.
This is Dr Katie Robinson.
She's an assistant nursingprofessor at California State
University and one of the Shileyorganizers.
You should know that Katie is alot like a glass of champagne
she's effervescent welcoming,goes down easy and can probably
(17:35):
talk you into agreeing tosomething before you realize
what's happening.
Katie Robinson, PhD, RN-BC, (17:39):
We were talking with the planning
committee total side note at thehot tubs, like you do right
With our little drinks ofvarious kinds at the hot tub,
talking about removinghierarchies from
interprofessional teams and howyou cannot really do
(18:02):
interprofessional collaborationwithout removing those
hierarchies.
Corey Rivera (18:08):
I'm sure we've all had our moment talking about
interprofessional practice inthe hot tub.
Katie Robinson, PhD, RN-BC, C (18:15):
I think that is part of again,
when we were at the hot tubhaving that conversation, trying
to really break down on whatdoes true interprofessional
collaborative practice look likewhen it's done in a healthy,
effective way?
What does that actually looklike?
We're such dorks, right.
(18:36):
We're sitting here on a hot tubdrinking the pan, rumb,
rumbopitos and some whiskey inpaper cups and we're talking
about hierarchies,interprofessional hierarchies.
There was a guy who got out andhe was like hey, I just want to
let you guys know I'm a socialworker and it's been fascinating
(18:57):
listening to your conversation.
We're like oh, are you at theconference?
He's like no, no, no, no, I'min a different training about
play therapy.
Corey Rivera (19:06):
Okay, we've talked about why you would go to a
conference and what you might dothere.
Step three is about coming home.
Step three overestimate yourrecovery.
If it's been a while since youhave knobbed, be kind to
yourself.
Your recovery process andtimeline have probably changed
since the before COVID times.
(19:26):
Try to schedule extra clientappointments to take place
before you leave, especially ifyou're an introvert.
Have a little consideration forfuture.
You there is no faster way toresent your clients than
traveling, meeting a bunch ofpeople, learning a bunch of
things, traveling again and thenhaving more appointments than
usual.
That's a recipe for becomingwhat we at Healwell call a fuzzy
(19:50):
nubbin.
So what do you do about keepingtrack of what happened while
you were at the event?
Make a note or voice memo aboutyour experience?
It's just for you.
You could do it at the end ofeach day or after you get back
home.
Often, when I get back to myreal life, I forget a lot of
(20:11):
things, especially the nicethings.
I have a really great memoryfor stuff I regret saying and
the tendency to lose the goodmoments.
So I write myself notes andwhen it comes to getting in
touch with people you metpersonally, I like to pre-write
emails and then schedule them tobe sent seven to 10 days after
the conference.
This helps keep my thoughts andquestions fresh, but gives
other people time to breathe andmakes me look less like an
(20:33):
excited puppy pressing my noseto the window.
So one more time.
Why should you put in all thiseffort?
Here's Champagne, katie, again.
Katie Robinson, PhD, RN-B (20:47):
Again , coming from my practice side,
I all you know massage as ahealing modality.
That's never been a stretch forme.
You know any of us who've hadmassage right, like we're like,
yeah, there's, there's, it'stherapeutic.
But also, you know, practicingand talking with patients like,
(21:12):
certainly massage was somethingthat has been recognized as, yes
, like that is, that issomething that can be healing,
right, what was my light bulbmoment, with you all being there
, was elevating massage as atrue clinical intervention and a
(21:36):
therapeutic intervention bytrained therapists.
Right, and my best analogy issort of like my discovery of
music therapy as, like trainedclinical musical therapist is
different than someone coming inand playing a guitar.
I love music and so, like,what's your favorite song?
(21:59):
Great, I'm going to play it foryou and sure that has some like
therapy in its own right.
Like great.
And also when I had a patientwith in respiratory distress and
I knew I could call my musictherapist who could come in and
actually perform a clinicalintervention for that patient.
That's a whole different leveland I know I hadn't ever thought
(22:21):
of massage therapy at thatlevel and being able to talk to
you all and the way you thinkabout massage therapy at that
level was just an amazing lightbulb moment of like.
Yes, yes, you mean this is likeanother team member that just
adds to like the Captain Planetpower of our powers combined.
(22:42):
Yes, please tell me more.
I want to know more.
I want to know more about, like, how this is how you are part
of that clinical intervention,and so that was such a huge
value.
Corey Rivera (22:59):
And here's the unstoppable Melinda one more
time.
Melinda S. Kavanaugh, PhD, L (23:03):
So here's the backstory.
I know massage therapistsbecause in a different part of
my life, my husband and Iactually own a salon and a spa,
and so we have five massagetherapists that work for us.
And so I'm like I know massagetherapists, you know, I know how
(23:27):
they are and kind of what theydo, but getting to know you and
Cal and heal, well, it was likelight bulbs going off.
You know, I'm like, oh yeah,that's right, there are so many
cool things that massage therapycan do for our patients and our
(23:49):
families that are involved inpalliative care, that are in
hospice, that are in any sort ofhealthcare setting in a way
that's different than where Ihad always interacted with
massage therapists was like, oh,I'm kind of stressed out, I'm
going to go get a massage.
Or you know I got a headache,I'm going to go get a massage,
whereas this felt different.
(24:10):
You know, this felt like oh,wait a minute.
So, like my, my massageorientation with our oh, this is
really cool.
How do we think about massagetherapy in a research engaged
setting, which is really wheremy mind went right.
Corey Rivera (24:32):
And now it's time for today's call to action.
If you go to a conference thatisn't about massage therapy,
please write to the NationalCertification Board for
therapeutic massage and bodywork.
Their contact information is inthe show notes.
Tell them you think you shouldbe able to get CEs and why you
thought this experience wasvaluable to you as a massage
therapist.
Tell them what you learned.
If we want to have more optionsto count for CEs, we need to
(24:54):
say so.
You have nothing to lose bysending them a note and all
kinds of opportunity to gain.
Also, write to us at podcast athealwellorg and tell us all
about it.
I hope you choose to goconferencing.
I hope you have a great time.
I hope you learned things.
I hope you teach other peoplethings.
Massage therapy is awesome andother people should definitely
(25:15):
know about it.
The only way they're going toknow is if we tell them.
Thank you for listening.
Welcome to the Rub a Hewile podcast about massage
therapy.
We say the quiet things loud,have a hunger for change and a
desire to connect the dots.
I'm your host, corey Rivera,licensed massage therapist and
information magpie.
In today's episode, we're goingto talk about the three steps
of conferencing and why youshould take a chance on an event
that isn't massage focused.
First of all, there ain't nosilo like a massage therapy silo
(00:39):
.
It is completely normal for amassage therapist to go from
their small entry level classstraight into private practice
without ever looking up once.
Once we have our license if ourestate even requires a license
it's up to us to decide whatkind of education or training to
take.
Anything that isn't approved bya continuing education board
doesn't count for relicensing,and if you work in a franchise,
(01:01):
they probably have their ownideas about what you should know
.
This doesn't exactly encouragecuriosity or exploration.
So why would you go tosomething as big as a conference
if it doesn't get you credit?
Because, my friends, there is awhole world out there waiting
for us and they have no idea weexist.
Melinda S. Kavanaugh, PhD, (01:20):
Well , I think it.
I mean, we go through life andwe know things right, or we?
think we know things that arekind of in our everyday
experience.
But then when you takesomething like massage or
massage therapy out of itslittle box in my mind it's
always been in right and thenyou blow it up.
(01:40):
You blow it up and it's all ofits opportunities and
possibilities and what thatmeans for not just kind of rehab
or health or wellness butreally part of you know we're
speaking about the Shileyconference in palliative care
but like that role of massagetherapy in treatment in a way
(02:04):
that I just hadn't reallythought about before.
Corey Rivera (02:09):
That was Dr Melinda Kavanaugh.
She's a social worker,researcher and educator at the
University of Wisconsin inMilwaukee.
She was one of the organizersof the event we went to in
February of 2024.
Melinda studies and createsprograms to help the wildly
underserved group of caregiverswho are under the age of 18.
When I think about Melinda, shestrikes me as an unstoppable
(02:31):
force.
She's committed to helpingthese kids.
Despite the fact that peopledon't want to discuss it because
they think it shouldn't behappening, she keeps moving
forward.
Hot tip when you're looking forallies, look for unstoppable
forces.
Okay, you may have noticed thatconference titles are meant to
(02:52):
be read and not set out loud, sobear with me.
We went to the NationalSymposium for Academic
Palliative Care Education andResearch held by the Shiley
Haynes Institute for PalliativeCare.
From now on I'll just call itShiley.
The Shiley Institute is a partof California State University.
It teaches palliative careskills to a bunch of disciplines
at many levels, like students,professionals and the community.
(03:14):
The Shiley conference was heldin San Diego and it was about 40
degrees and rained the entiretime Straight up.
It was warmer at home inMichigan than it was in
California and everybody I metfrom California apologized for
the weather the entire time.
We were there, as they should.
Okay, national Symposium.
(03:35):
Are you wondering what asymposium is?
In practice, it usually meansthe same thing as a conference,
but its original meaning inGreek is something like a
drinking party and or excellentdiscussion held after a banquet.
Shiley had food, they haddrinks and they definitely had
excellent discussion.
A plus, before we get to thethree steps of conferencing, I
(03:58):
want to tell you the mostimportant thing I learned at
Shiley.
Folks, we are not the only ones.
Massage therapy is so closedoff from other professions it's
hard to know if what weexperience is common or abnormal
.
Here are two things that arecommon that I thought was
totally us.
The first is that everybody isintimidated by the results
(04:18):
section in a research paper.
I was at a workshop with asmorgasbord of health
practitioners talking aboutresearch and everybody in the
room got uncomfortable when wegot to the numbers part.
It's not just us.
Everybody thinks they're toodumb to understand the numbers.
The second thing I found out hadto do with the exhibitor tables
.
I hate going to a conferenceand seeing the trash people are
(04:40):
selling, from plastic chakracrystals to incredibly
overpriced face cream, to YoungLiving's predatory multi-level
marketing scheme.
Yes, I totally just said thatout loud.
But you know what?
Two out of the ten exhibitortables at Shiley were red light
therapy for skin, the newestgadget available to keep you
feeling bad about how you look.
The people manning the boothswere absolutely gorgeous humans
(05:04):
who stared daggers at each otheracross the room.
All of a sudden, I felt betterabout the weird things that show
up at our conferences.
Apparently, everyone has aweird thing that shows up.
It's expensive to host aconference and while I'm a
little on the fence about theethics of letting things like
multi-level marketing into yourevent, does it kind of suggest
you're okay with it?
I mean, get that money Okay.
(05:32):
We've talked about what I'velearned.
Now let's turn to the threesteps of conference going.
Step one know why you're going.
Step two understand how youwant to interact and how you
don't.
And step three overestimateyour recovery.
Step one know why you're going.
(05:53):
One of my favorite books isQuiet the power of introverts in
a world that can't stop talking, by Susan Cain.
It has an idea called the CorePersonal Project.
These are projects that thrillyour soul and can push you to
work outside your comfort zone,whether you're fired up being
around people or happiestscouring documents in a wingback
chair in front of a blazingfireplace or maybe that's just
(06:13):
me.
Anyway, your personal projectsinspire you to take action and
also to act out of character.
It's important that you takeinto account the cost of these
actions, which we'll talk moreabout when we get to step three.
Your core personal projectshould help you decide why you
are going to a conference.
Are you in to help peoplecommunicate?
Check out a social work event?
(06:34):
Are you interested inrepetitive stress injuries?
Maybe a physical therapy eventis for you?
There are all kinds of validreasons to attend a conference.
You could go just to learn.
You could go to have a newexperience.
You can go to network.
You can go to have fun and seeyour people.
You can go to have fun and findnew people, like our friend
(06:56):
Sakina, who went to the firstBlack Massage Therapy Conference
in October of 2023.
Sakinah Irrizarry, LMT (07:01):
It met and surpassed all expectations.
When I heard about it I wentback and forth about going,
because I Because travel is notalways my jam but see, I figured
this would be my best chance tosee and meet and talk and Face
(07:22):
time with people.
Upon arrival At the conferencethat morning I didn't stay in
the hotel where the conferencewas held.
A lot of people stayed.
I tend to do, you know, I wantto crawl back off into my hiding
hole.
Whenever I'm so I have to havevery much my own space for no
(07:43):
one can find me.
But so I didn't stay at thehotel.
So I arrived very early themorning of the conference and
the first thing I walk in and Imeet a black massage therapist
from Anchorage, alaska.
Wow, all the way from Alaskaand I'm like and now New York
just doesn't seem that far awayfrom the airline at all.
Corey Rivera (08:07):
Sometimes it's really just enough to get people
thinking about massage therapy.
Just being in a space can bringattention to what massage
therapy has to offer.
Here's Cal Cates, executivedirector of Healwell.
Cal Cates, LMT (08:19):
I Think my approach is to demonstrate that,
as a massage therapist, I'malso thinking deeply about the
other questions that havebrought all these people to this
conference and that I feel likemassage therapy, the cultural
understanding of massage therapy, is so sort of limited, and I
don't I Don't think most people,certainly people in healthcare
(08:41):
would consult a massagetherapist about the big
questions of patient outcomes orSatisfaction or access or
things that are sort of thebigger problems in healthcare.
So I feel like by asking thosequestions and making it clear
from the outset I'm coming atthis from the massage therapy
perspective.
It sort of turns heads in thisway that like, oh huh, well,
(09:05):
massage therapists think aboutstuff that's that's so
interesting.
Corey Rivera (09:11):
And here's Melinda , the unstoppable force, talking
about how meeting us kind ofchanged her mind.
Melinda S. Kavanaugh, PhD, (09:18):
Yeah , and I have to say Genuinely,
what was really fantastic aboutit was it wasn't just like, oh
wait, massage therapy can, cando this, and it's like totally
different and my brain is moving.
But I have to be very honesthere.
It was the experience ofmeeting and interacting with you
(09:40):
and Cal particularly.
Both of you Brought it home ina way.
You were so open and engagingabout it and both of you really
we're like hey, what do youthink?
Like no, what?
So I think that was really that, to me, made a lot of
difference.
Corey Rivera (10:00):
Knowing your goal will help you make plans, so
you're less likely to feel likeyou've wasted your time and
money.
And Keep in mind not allconferences are created equal.
It isn't just about why youwant to go.
It's about why the hosts areholding it in the first place.
So make sure you know aconference's goals before you go
.
Most massage therapy conferencesare about continuing education,
but there are other reasons togather.
(10:21):
Sometimes it's education,sometimes it's promotion.
You need to be more carefulabout what you're doing here.
Sometimes it's education,sometimes it's promotion.
You should be able to tell theevent's goals from browsing
their website.
Check out who speaking, look atthe topics.
Read there about us blurb.
Don't be intimidated if itdoesn't say anything about
massage therapists.
Remember people simply don'tthink about us at all.
(10:42):
That doesn't mean you don'thave something to offer them or
a ton of new things to learn.
The Shiley event in Californiawas about education and fostered
an atmosphere of collaboration.
It lent itself to a moreintimate setting of around 150
people.
Larger conferences, like theone held by the National Hospice
and Palliative CareOrganization, or NHPCO,
(11:02):
regularly have over a thousandpeople and are just as much
about seeing and being seen asthey are about finding people to
work with.
There's nothing wrong with ahundred people or a thousand
people, but know what you'restepping into before you buy
that ticket.
All right.
Step two understand how youwant to interact and how you
don't.
(11:22):
What interactions make sense foryour goals.
Small groups and workshops areawesome places to have
conversations.
I much prefer going toworkshops where there are
planned activities.
Those plenary sessions, theones where a person stands and
talks at a podium, aren't reallywhy I'm there.
They can be super interestingand can be great conversations.
Start with a little bit of aconversation.
They can be super interestingand can be great conversation
(11:44):
starters later.
But I can watch webinars allday at home at a conference.
I want to know other people'sthoughts and experiences.
The best event I went to itShiley was a workshop on
bioethics.
The professor running it hadn'tprepared anything because he
wanted to hear what the peoplein the room are struggling with.
For 20 minutes I listened tohealthcare professionals who
work in the same healthcaresystem discuss talking to
(12:05):
patients about assistedend-of-life care.
Nobody had the same directions.
Everyone was confused anddistressed and no solutions were
offered, because that wasn'tthe point.
The point of the workshop wasfor people to express themselves
in a safe space and know theyweren't alone.
Another way to interact if youare feeling frisky is to ask
(12:26):
questions of the microphoneafter people give their
presentations, like Calcatesdoes.
Cal Cates, LMT (12:32):
Yeah, I think when I go to a conference under
the auspices of Healw ell, I'mlooking to invite people to
think about massage therapy fullstop.
That you know.
I go to health care conferences, palliative care conferences,
hospice conferences, and even ifI'm not presenting, I try to go
(12:54):
up to the microphone and ask aquestion, where typically they
want you to say your name andwhy you're there and sort of
what your discipline is.
And so then I get to become theperson who wants to talk about
massage therapy.
Corey Rivera (13:06):
Also in the category of interacting.
Think about who you want tomeet.
Notice what questions peopleask.
If they intrigue you, you canseek them out later with a.
You were at that rubber duckysession earlier.
I liked your question aboutlimited edition rubber duck
collecting.
It made me curious about yourexperience collecting rubber
duckies.
Also, notice what people arewearing.
(13:27):
When you live in a college town, like I do, spirit wear just
kind of appears in your closet.
My Michigan State sweatshirt'salmost unfailingly caused
someone to yell go green at meat the wildest moments.
The proper response, by the way, is to scream go white right
back at them.
It's a great icebreaker.
Alternatively, talking tosomebody for two minutes and
(13:49):
exchanging business cards isgreat.
You can catch up with peopleafter the event is over.
Learn about that in step three.
Sometimes knowing how you wantto interact is about not
interacting.
For those of us who getoverstimulated, here's some
tricks I've picked up.
Scope out the quiet places andthat way you know where to hide
(14:09):
if you need some down time.
There's this introvert trickcalled owning the room.
It's fantastic and I use it allthe time.
It involves getting to alocation earlier than everyone
else and staking out of space.
This is not difficult for mebecause I have anxiety about
being to things on time and I'malways quite early.
Now when people enter the room.
(14:30):
They're entering your space,you're not intruding, and, of
course, you will be wonderfullygracious and welcoming when they
get there.
This also forces other peopleto open the conversation with
things like is this seat takenand is it okay if I sit here?
Know how many people are toomany people for you?
(14:51):
Once about four other peopleenter a conversation, it can be
difficult for me to process,especially if I'm already
nervous or uncomfortable.
Okay, this one is reallyimportant.
I hereby officially absolve youof the pressure to eat with
other people.
Food is complicated and thatmight only get worse if you're
(15:12):
supposed to be talking andeating in front of people at the
same time.
There is nothing wrong withgrabbing a plate and walking
away from the crowd, maybe tothat hidey hole you scouted
earlier and maybe back to yourroom.
Eating is important becauseconference days can be long, but
you should eat when and how iscomfortable for you.
My last advice Stay on site ifyou can.
(15:36):
The biggest regret I hear frompeople is not staying in the
hotel where the event is.
Here's Sakina again talkingabout the Black Massage Therapy
Conference.
Sakinah Irrizarry, LMT (15:45):
Well, I'll say this, as far as the
ability to build community, andquickly, one of the reasons why
I actually now regret that Ibuilt in my escape hatch is
because I built escape hatchesinto many social interactions,
one of the reasons I actuallykind of regret it.
(16:06):
I'm kind of like is because Icould clearly see how people
arriving the night beforealready knew each other.
Already knew each other fromthe night before.
Community was already beingformed.
Community was formed.
As soon as I walked in the doorI could see community had been
(16:30):
formed from just one night prior.
It was really amazing to justbe with a lot of people who work
in the same profession thatlook like me.
Corey Rivera (16:46):
And here's Rebecca Sturgeon, Hewels Education
Director.
Rebecca Sturgeon (16:51):
Honestly, I think if I do go, I will stay at
the resort while the conferenceis happening, because I think
that there's opportunities, notthat your whole life has to be
networking when you're at aconference.
But there were people there whoI just thought were interesting
people, you know, and it wouldbe nice to have a chance to talk
to them when we're not likewhen's the next session start?
Corey Rivera (17:14):
Sometimes it's the informal version of the
symposium, the drinking andconversation but are the most
fun and, surprisingly, the mostproductive moments.
This is Dr Katie Robinson.
She's an assistant nursingprofessor at California State
University and one of the Shileyorganizers.
You should know that Katie is alot like a glass of champagne
she's effervescent welcoming,goes down easy and can probably
(17:35):
talk you into agreeing tosomething before you realize
what's happening.
Katie Robinson, PhD, RN-BC, (17:39):
We were talking with the planning
committee total side note at thehot tubs, like you do right
With our little drinks ofvarious kinds at the hot tub,
talking about removinghierarchies from
interprofessional teams and howyou cannot really do
(18:02):
interprofessional collaborationwithout removing those
hierarchies.
Corey Rivera (18:08):
I'm sure we've all had our moment talking about
interprofessional practice inthe hot tub.
Katie Robinson, PhD, RN-BC, C (18:15):
I think that is part of again,
when we were at the hot tubhaving that conversation, trying
to really break down on whatdoes true interprofessional
collaborative practice look likewhen it's done in a healthy,
effective way?
What does that actually looklike?
We're such dorks, right.
(18:36):
We're sitting here on a hot tubdrinking the pan, rumb,
rumbopitos and some whiskey inpaper cups and we're talking
about hierarchies,interprofessional hierarchies.
There was a guy who got out andhe was like hey, I just want to
let you guys know I'm a socialworker and it's been fascinating
(18:57):
listening to your conversation.
We're like oh, are you at theconference?
He's like no, no, no, no, I'min a different training about
play therapy.
Corey Rivera (19:06):
Okay, we've talked about why you would go to a
conference and what you might dothere.
Step three is about coming home.
Step three overestimate yourrecovery.
If it's been a while since youhave knobbed, be kind to
yourself.
Your recovery process andtimeline have probably changed
since the before COVID times.
(19:26):
Try to schedule extra clientappointments to take place
before you leave, especially ifyou're an introvert.
Have a little consideration forfuture.
You there is no faster way toresent your clients than
traveling, meeting a bunch ofpeople, learning a bunch of
things, traveling again and thenhaving more appointments than
usual.
That's a recipe for becomingwhat we at Healwell call a fuzzy
(19:50):
nubbin.
So what do you do about keepingtrack of what happened while
you were at the event?
Make a note or voice memo aboutyour experience?
It's just for you.
You could do it at the end ofeach day or after you get back
home.
Often, when I get back to myreal life, I forget a lot of
(20:11):
things, especially the nicethings.
I have a really great memoryfor stuff I regret saying and
the tendency to lose the goodmoments.
So I write myself notes andwhen it comes to getting in
touch with people you metpersonally, I like to pre-write
emails and then schedule them tobe sent seven to 10 days after
the conference.
This helps keep my thoughts andquestions fresh, but gives
other people time to breathe andmakes me look less like an
(20:33):
excited puppy pressing my noseto the window.
So one more time.
Why should you put in all thiseffort?
Here's Champagne, katie, again.
Katie Robinson, PhD, RN-B (20:47):
Again , coming from my practice side,
I all you know massage as ahealing modality.
That's never been a stretch forme.
You know any of us who've hadmassage right, like we're like,
yeah, there's, there's, it'stherapeutic.
But also, you know, practicingand talking with patients like,
(21:12):
certainly massage was somethingthat has been recognized as, yes
, like that is, that issomething that can be healing,
right, what was my light bulbmoment, with you all being there
, was elevating massage as atrue clinical intervention and a
(21:36):
therapeutic intervention bytrained therapists.
Right, and my best analogy issort of like my discovery of
music therapy as, like trainedclinical musical therapist is
different than someone coming inand playing a guitar.
I love music and so, like,what's your favorite song?
(21:59):
Great, I'm going to play it foryou and sure that has some like
therapy in its own right.
Like great.
And also when I had a patientwith in respiratory distress and
I knew I could call my musictherapist who could come in and
actually perform a clinicalintervention for that patient.
That's a whole different leveland I know I hadn't ever thought
(22:21):
of massage therapy at thatlevel and being able to talk to
you all and the way you thinkabout massage therapy at that
level was just an amazing lightbulb moment of like.
Yes, yes, you mean this is likeanother team member that just
adds to like the Captain Planetpower of our powers combined.
(22:42):
Yes, please tell me more.
I want to know more.
I want to know more about, like, how this is how you are part
of that clinical intervention,and so that was such a huge
value.
Corey Rivera (22:59):
And here's the unstoppable Melinda one more
time.
Melinda S. Kavanaugh, PhD, L (23:03):
So here's the backstory.
I know massage therapistsbecause in a different part of
my life, my husband and Iactually own a salon and a spa,
and so we have five massagetherapists that work for us.
And so I'm like I know massagetherapists, you know, I know how
(23:27):
they are and kind of what theydo, but getting to know you and
Cal and heal, well, it was likelight bulbs going off.
You know, I'm like, oh yeah,that's right, there are so many
cool things that massage therapycan do for our patients and our
(23:49):
families that are involved inpalliative care, that are in
hospice, that are in any sort ofhealthcare setting in a way
that's different than where Ihad always interacted with
massage therapists was like, oh,I'm kind of stressed out, I'm
going to go get a massage.
Or you know I got a headache,I'm going to go get a massage,
whereas this felt different.
(24:10):
You know, this felt like oh,wait a minute.
So, like my, my massageorientation with our oh, this is
really cool.
How do we think about massagetherapy in a research engaged
setting, which is really wheremy mind went right.
Corey Rivera (24:32):
And now it's time for today's call to action.
If you go to a conference thatisn't about massage therapy,
please write to the NationalCertification Board for
therapeutic massage and bodywork.
Their contact information is inthe show notes.
Tell them you think you shouldbe able to get CEs and why you
thought this experience wasvaluable to you as a massage
therapist.
Tell them what you learned.
If we want to have more optionsto count for CEs, we need to
(24:54):
say so.
You have nothing to lose bysending them a note and all
kinds of opportunity to gain.
Also, write to us at podcast athealwellorg and tell us all
about it.
I hope you choose to goconferencing.
I hope you have a great time.
I hope you learned things.
I hope you teach other peoplethings.
Massage therapy is awesome andother people should definitely
(25:15):
know about it.
The only way they're going toknow is if we tell them.
Thank you for listening.
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