May 2, 2025 • 57 mins
On this week's episode of The Rural Woman Podcast™, you'll meet Sam Haley.
Sam Haley grew up on a blueberry farm in rural Nova Scotia before earning a Plant Science degree and transitioning from conventional chemical controls to biological ones. While pregnant during the pandemic, she started a llama farm, using their manure for gardening. Now, she runs a small fertilizer business, hand-spins fiber, and teaches her boys the value of a strong work ethic.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:40):
Hi, I'm Katelyn Duban and thisis the Rural Woman Podcast. I'm a
first generation farmer whomarried into agriculture. Born and
raised in a city, I was sounfamiliar with where my food came
from, but I was determined tofigure it out. Through my journey
into agriculture, I saw womenwho were strong but humble, often
(01:04):
taking a backseat. To me,these women were leaders who deserved
a seat at the table. I createdthe Rural Women Podcast to share
the voices of women in anindustry whose stories often went
untold. The ruralentrepreneurs who live and breathe
their work full of grit andpride. We come here to share our
(01:27):
stories, to be in communitywith each other, to be challenged
and inspired, but mostimportantly, importantly, to be celebrated
and to be heard. We may notall live farm, ranch or homestead
the same, but we are allconnected. We are rural women and
our stories are worthy ofbeing told. Hey everyone. Welcome
(01:57):
back to another episode of theRural Woman Podcast. Today you'll
meet Sam Haley. Sam grew up inrural Nova Scotia.
On a low bush blueberry farm,which truly cemented her love and
dedication to agriculture.After high school, she completed
her plant science diploma andlater her plant science degree, embarking
on a career in cropprotection. Starting out in conventional
(02:20):
chemical control, she.
Then branched off intobiological controls on a whim and
with what she now.
Calls her harebrained idea.
While five months pregnantduring the onset of the pandemic,
she decided to start a llama farm.
With her plant sciencebackground, she recognized the value
of their manure and how itcould be integrated into modern gardening.
(02:42):
Eleven llamas and 16 sheeplater, she.
Runs a small scale fertilizerbusiness, hand.
Spins the animals fiber andstrives to teach her boys a strong
work ethic. All while showingthem how everything has a place in
in the world. Friends, you aregoing to love Sam Haley just as much
as I do. I have connected withher through this podcast and since
(03:05):
on social media and she is atrue light in our industry and I
cannot wait to share.
Her story with you. Withoutfurther ado, my friends, let's get
to this week's episode with.
Welcome to the Rural WomanPodcast. How are you today?
(03:27):
I'm pretty good, thank you forhaving me.
I am so excited to chat withyou. For the listeners who are listening
to this, we've already beenchatting for the last 20 minutes
and I feel like Sam is my newbest friend on the east coast.
Come on out anytime, I'll showyou around, it will be fine. I can't
(03:49):
guarantee you to go back thesame, but you'll have fun.
That. That is just fine withme, Sam, for the listeners who are
unfamiliar with you, tell uswho you are, where you're from, and
how you got your start in agriculture.
So my name is Sam Haley. Igrew up in rural Nova Scotia in a
little place called Monasteryfor anybody who's familiar, on a
(04:10):
wild blueberry farm. So that'skind of where it all started. My
grandfather owns 60 acres justoutside of Anaganish county, and
we have a fresh froz line andwalk in freezers there, which has
developed over time. And he'llsell to local farmers markets and
little grocery stores andstuff like that. And that's kind
of where I got my feet wet inagriculture. And then it just kind
(04:33):
of took off like a house onfire. After that, I went to, which
is now known as dallasi wasNova Scotia Agricultural College.
And then they kind oftransitioned. So I have a plan science
degree and diploma from thereand then took a year off and, like,
it just worked just to kind offigure out, like, what I wanted to
do. And then I got a job inconventional chemistry sales for,
(04:54):
like, pest control. Sorry. Andthen I was in that job for about
eight years and then switchedto a biological job and then kind
of developed a flu farm, as Icall it, for lack of a better word.
I got married and alwayswanted llamas and procured a llama,
learned more about llamas, gotanother llama, and then went to look
(05:18):
at a herd of llamas. I waslooking at buying one, and I came
home with four. And my husbandat the time was like, you have a
science degree, you can count.This is not like. This is not one.
And I'm like. And then come tofind out that two of the llamas that
came home were actuallypregnant. So it turned out to be
six. Well, so now we have 10llamas, an alpaca, 16 sheep, and
(05:42):
three angora goats, all usedfor fiber. So I do everything but
shear. Sometimes I'lloutsource for washing, but I hand
spin, process, pick myself.And on top of that, the llamas, because
I have a plant science degree,I learned about their fertilizer.
And I also have a fertilizerline that I do with their poop. And
(06:02):
then that's just on the side.And I still work in agriculture for
a profession. I am a globalproduct manager for our biological
company based in Fredericton,but home offices in Switzerland,
and I do domestic sales forthem, too. And I'm on the blueberry
board for Nova Scotia.
So it's busy, is Very busy.And all pertaining to agriculture.
(06:22):
All pertaining to egg. Yep.
Right. So growing up on thatblueberry farm, how did it shape
your experience in your lovefor agriculture?
I just, like, I always likedit. Like, I just liked it. Like it
was always my grandfather'sthing. Like, he'd always drag me
(06:43):
around to meetings. He'dalways drag me, like, I'm going to
the fields, come have a look.Like, what do you see? What do you
think? Like, what it. Like,you know, and then I'd see on his
side of things that him tryingto figure out what the problems were,
like what that weed was, whatthat disease was, what that insect
was. And I'm very much like,I. I talked to my partner about it.
I'm like, I like to collectlittle old men now. Like, they're
(07:04):
my favorite things to do.Like, I will befriend the little
old men. Don't care what stylehearing aid you have, what color
pledge you have. Like, Igravitate to little old men, which
sounds so weird, but I lovethem. And I genuine, like, love hearing
their stories and like, how,like, how they got where they, like
where they are and all theknowledge that they know. Because
(07:24):
these people are going toforget more than I'm ever going to
learn. Like, realistically,because. Cause from back in the day,
it's like, oh, you know, theyhandpicked, you know, 200 acres with
hand rakes. And it's just likebarbaric to think about that now.
Cause it's all technology. SoI love dealing with little farmers
and that kind of stuck withit. I love solving problems for people
and that's kind of where itall started. And then even afterwards,
(07:46):
like all through high schooland most university, I milk cows
on the dairy farms, on variousones. Cause. And I just, I love cows.
It's like a. It's anaffliction that I'm plagued with,
like, as a species, as awhole. Like, I enjoy eating them
as well. Like, it's not thatit's just like, you know, save the
cows. It's like them as acritter. So it's always just kind
of been there and it's nevernothing. Like, nothing else has ever
(08:09):
really, like, stuck. I guessit's the way of looking at it. Like
I don't have any interest ifit's not agriculture, which is so
weird. Like, it's just weird.Like sitting in a bank, I'm like,
oh, your life dull. I mean,they don't get craft on or. You know
what I mean? Or like, and theyalso likely deal with cute little
old men too. But like, not,you know, not. Not in their forte.
(08:34):
I guess that's kind of how it.Yeah, that makes any sense.
I love what you said aboutthey are going to forget more than
I will ever learn. Like, Ithink that is the tweetable moment
right there. Because of theknowledge that they have. And they
didn't get it from Google.
No, exactly. It's all hands onlearning. It's all like, you know,
(08:57):
they have a problem, they'retrying to figure out how to fix it.
They're talking to all theseother people who have similar problems.
And it's like, hey, like, Imight not know what that weed is,
but I know what this weed is.And then, you know, what did you
apply? How does it work? Like,how? It's just so cool. Like, it's
just so cool. And I see itwith my grandfather now. He's like,
oh, back in the day I did thisand I sprayed this and you know,
(09:19):
da, da, da. And I'm like,okay, cool. But now that's how it
worked then. But now thatchemical might not be listed anymore.
It might be under a newregulation, a new name or something.
So that's kind of where I comein. And then it's like, I'm the golden
goose for five minutes untilhe forgets what I said because he's
80, he's gonna be 81. So it'slike I get the same question every
(09:41):
other week and I'm just like,we've talked about this, you sweet
creature. But yeah, it's true.It's just on how they do things versus
now. It's, it's incredible.It's truly incredible.
Talk to us more about yourcareer in agriculture. Prior to the
farm, you went to school foryour plant science education. What
was it about the scienceaspect of agriculture that interested
(10:04):
you?
So full disclosure. Fulldisclosure. I started out in the
equine diploma program becauseI was like, I rode like semi competitively.
I rode all around theMaritimes. I evented, I had my jumpers
and it was great. And I, Iknew myself enough to know that if
I didn't go back to schoolright after high school, I wasn't
going to ever go. And I waslike, okay, well, if I'm going to
do it, I might as well dosomething that I like. So we'll start
(10:26):
into the equine thing. Andthen I got into the program and I
realized, I was like, this islike, not okay. Like, I'm not enjoying
this. I'm Partying way toomuch. I'm here. I'm not really doing
what I should be doing. Andthen I was home for Christmas one
year and I was just likelistening to my grandfather talk
and like the firm and we weretalking, like, and it was stuff that
(10:48):
came secondhand to me. It'slike, it wasn't like I had to go
look up things. Like, I knewwhat was. Like, I knew what we were
talking about. I knew theissues that he had. And I was like,
why don't I go down thatroute? Like, I don't. Like I should
just. If this is such secondnature to me, like, why don't I go
after that? So I did mydiploma and I was like, okay, cool.
(11:09):
Realistically, what am I goingto do with a diploma? I could work
in greenhouses, which is notmy jam at all. Don't like the heat,
like that. Praise the peoplewho have greenhouses. There's a place
in time for them. I am notthat person. So I did my degree.
I focused on ediblehorticulture, which is low bush,
and did my honors on a weedspecies that we had problems with
in our fields. So I did all myfield work at home. And then I was
(11:32):
like, this is kind of my jam.Like, and then I, I realized, like,
this is what I liked. This iswhat I kind of wanted to do. And
then I just kind of worked. Iworked for a year at a pet food store
where I met my ex husband. Andthen I got offered a job. Somebody
remembered me. They're like,you're that blueberry chick. Like,
and I've been going to thesemeetings with my grandfather since
(11:53):
I was like knee high to agrasshopper. I was like the worst
shadow ever. Cause I nevershut up. And like, you know, some
people get handshakes fromthese farmers. And I, to this day,
if I go, when I go to themeetings, like, these little old
men are like. And they comeover and they hug you and everyone's
like, this is bizarre. Sothat's kind of like how it started
(12:13):
and then how it evolved. Andnow I'm doing all the things.
Doing all the things. So talkabout the positions that you've had
in the science field,essentially for agriculture.
Yeah. So I started out inconventional chem, which was I really
liked and I still do. I'm inmore biologicals now, but I'm very
(12:35):
much someone that's like, Ineed black and white. Like, show
me why this works. Give me thedata. Off I go. I don't like, you
know, oh, well, if you didthis, this, and this. Like, so I
started out in a conventionalchemistry company that's based in
Guelph. They were bought by acompany overseas, changed their name,
(12:55):
still kind of had the samething. And I did most of their sales
in Atlanta, Canada. So the onething about Atlanta, Canada is that
it's not like Western Canada.It's not even like Ontario. Like,
we might have, like, off thetop of my head, we have three main
retailers who all fight for apiece of the pie, depending on what
province you're on, too,because, like, Nova Scotia is more
(13:16):
hort. You'll see, like, a lotof potatoes and PEI in New Brunswick.
But, like, you have thosethree fundamentally fundamental people
here who are like kind ofshifting sand, essentially, of who's
going to buy from who andwho's going to do which. And so when
you get into that, such asmall market, you really kind of
need to know what you'retalking about and, like, how it works,
(13:36):
where it fits in yourprograms, if you're doing, like,
IPM products, if you're doingpurely conventionals. So I was in
that field for eight or nineyears, and then I. Life happened.
I had. My oldest was three. Myyoungest was nine months, and my
husband became my ex husband.And I was like, we need to pivot,
(13:59):
and we need to pivot quick.Because I, you know, wanted to phase
back slowly into work to tryto figure out how the dynamic of
life would happen. And then myheadhunter, actually, who had found
me for the other position waslike, hey. Like, we were just chatting
because I keep friends. It'swhat I do. Like, I meet people, get
to know them, and they justkind of stick in my orb. So even
(14:22):
though I had dealt with himnine years ago, I still chat with
them. Told him the situation.He came up, he's like, I have this
job. Like, I have thisposition. I think you might like
it. Like, I think it's justquirky enough that it would be a
good fit. So that's when. NowI'm with Andermatt Canada. They are
a biological company based inFredericton. But, like, head. Head
office is in Switzerland. So Istarted out doing their domestic
(14:45):
sales. And a lot of it is. Icall it. This is so horrible, but
I call it bioterrorism.Because people. When you talk about
biologicals or organics,people glaze over because they're
like, oh, you're walking outbarefoot, picking off bugs off a
plant. They think organic,organic. But this is like, we use
viruses that are found ininsects as an actual Pesticides,
(15:08):
and then we apply it back onthem so it infects them. And it's
very target specific. It'scalled bacloviruses. So we do a lot
of that stuff. And then wehave subsidiaries, I guess, like
sister companies based allover the world. So they will take
their actives and bring, like,one of our biggest products is from
South Africa. Like, one of myreally good friends is from South
(15:29):
Africa now because I met herthrough work and we're whatsapping
all the time, and it's crazy,but we also make them in Fredericton.
So there was a shift in thedynamic of the company and the position
of global product manager cameup. And they're like, you can talk
the ear off a deaf elephant.Like, we haven't seen anybody that
you can't talk to, regardlessof where they're at. Why don't you
give it a go? And I was like,okay, so now I do the majority of
(15:54):
the global sales for thecompany. Just the only continent
I don't deal with, I don'tdeal with Brazil because that's kind
of a bigger account. But,like, I have product going into Australia.
I have trials in South Africa,I have trials in Kenya way. We just
got stuff registered in. Ihave to go do a presentation in Argentina
in May. So it's super cool.And at first I was really kind of
(16:15):
skeptical because I'm like, Ineed the science to see how this
works. Because everybody saystheir stuff works, but I flat outside
of my interview, I'm like, Ineed to see this. So I seen some
data. I'm like, well, this isfun. So complete360, from conventional
to organic or biologicals orbioterrorism, however you want to
frame it. And now I'm in this.
(16:37):
So cool. As an organic farmermyself, love all of that, what you
just said, terrorism thing.I'm gonna steal that from you.
Yeah, well, that's exactly it.Because, like, you know, you start
talking about it andeveryone's like, oh. Because, you
know, depending on where youare, what your perception of organic
is, it's a real thing. Like, Iknow Amy Hill was on the podcast
(16:59):
before. She lives 25 minutesdown the road from me. Like, I went
to school with her, I know herand I've talked to her about this
stuff and she's more open toit. But, like, there's another farmer
across the hill 15 minutesfrom me who is organic, lovely. But
will go pick off every singleinsect off their plants. So it all
depends, right? It's in theeye of the beholder. So, like, if
(17:19):
I throw bioterrorism, you canreally see, like, who's. Like, the
eyebrows shoot up. Yeah,eyebrows shoot up. They're like,
go on. Or they just, like,disappear. So it's a really. It's.
I mean, I don't say it whenI'm at, like, corporate meetings
with everybody, you know,like, and as I've learned, the Germans
and the Swiss, like, don'tquite have the Atlantic. Joie de
(17:44):
vivre, if you will. Like,they. We literally walk into the
room, and they're like, oh,there's the Canadians. Like, what
are they gonna do now? So Ihave to watch my P's and Q's.
Yeah. Very cool. Very cool.And I just love the growth that you've
had from, you know, working onthe blueberry farm and milking cows
and kind of just figuring outyour own space and honestly creating
(18:08):
a space for yourself with yourfarm. So you started out with the
one llama, and then itobviously expanded. But what was
it about wanting a llama inthe first place? Why did you become
a llama farmer?
The universal question that mymother asks me on regular, she's
like, why can't. Like, why? Ihonestly don't know. Like, I. And
(18:32):
it's funny because every yearthe Facebook memory pops up. It was,
like, 12 years ago. It's like,you know, someone's going to catch
me walking in my driveway witha llama one day, and I won't be held.
Like, I won't be able to beheld accountable for it. But I just
always thought they were supercool. Like, literally, they're like
a modern, like, fiberdinosaur. Like, they're just the
weirdest things. And there's,like, such. And now they're really
(18:53):
big in, like, pop culture,where you always see llamas and alpacas
and drama llamas and all thisracket. But, like, they're super,
super cool. And one of myfavorite things about them, besides
their fiber, which. That waslike a whole gateway. Like, that
was a. That wasn't even on myradar. Like, the whole side business
was. It was just like, I justwant to love you because you're really
cool. But the one thing Ireally learned and I love about them
(19:15):
is their family dynamic, like,their herd dynamic. It is the most
stressful but neatest thingever. So, like, they are very much
like, we. So we lost. Who didwe. We. One of our mamas had a crea.
Baby had a birth defect. Shecouldn't latch properly. She had
(19:36):
a palate problem, and shePassed away. And this was like a
learning curve for me. And Iwas like, well, because, I mean,
a baby, anything deceasing isjust like. Like, I'm not a good farmer
in that sense. Like, everybodyhas a name. Everybody, like, you
know, has a personality. I'mnot. I'm not hard enough yet. So
I was devastated and was like,okay, we gotta. We did. We did a
(19:59):
autopsy to make sure ournecropsy to see exactly what it was.
I'm sure it was. And then Ijust swooped the body away, not even
thinking. Have you ever seen amama llama mourn before? She walked
the fence line for three dayswith her other daughter, who was
four years older at younger,like, older than this Kriya calling
(20:22):
and calling and calling forthat baby. And her daughter would
not leave her side. And I waslike, what is going on here? Because
this was the first death I'veever experienced. Like, I was like,
I didn't even think. And thenI did a lot more of deep dive into
it. And it's like, they'resuch a social creature that so now
we. And then since we've had afew more die and literally there
(20:44):
has to be a mourning periodfor them because they literally.
And it's not even just likethe shifting of the hierarchy and
like, all that stuff. They'regenuinely, like, mourning. It's bizarre.
So I've learned so muchthrough them. And then on an animal
scheme in general, like,things that can affect them and like,
things that, like, they'repartially diabetic right off the
bat, like, they can't havesugar. And I'm like, okay, well,
(21:05):
that sucks for you. But, like,you know, they're just. They're such
an enigma, and they're super,super cool. And then there's the
whole fiber and the fertilizerand like, this whole, like, they
don't. They do spit. They do.But, like, I've had them for what,
seven years? I've been spit onthree times and only once was on
(21:26):
purpose. So, like, it's.They're so neat. They're just super,
super cool critters.
They are very cool. And now Iwill forever know them as fiber dinosaurs.
Our neighbor has llamas andalpacas down the road. And now that's
all I will think of when Idrive past them.
Fiber dinosaurs is exactlywhat they are. And that you can thank
(21:47):
my son for that. He's like,they're like Bigfoot, but with floof.
It's like, right on, kid.Right on.
I love that. So what year didyou start the farm?
(22:48):
So Maple River Farm originallystarted out. I was Finn probably
eight or nine years ago. Andoriginally was chickens. So the name
I was we. I always hadcreatures here. That was kind of
part of my thing. Like, when Iwas with my ex husband. I'm like,
if we're going to be together,like, I need space, I need land.
Like, I am not an apartmentkind of gal. Like, I need to have
(23:09):
an area where I can, like,humiliate creatures and, like, do
my thing. So I was originally,like, hatching chickens. Like, I
was into Orpingtons and kindof chicken genetics, and I thought
that was really cool. And thenthe whole llama thing just kind of
happened. So I'm just tryingto think it was after fit. I had
my first few llamas when myoldest was three, I believe two or
(23:34):
three. And then the fertilizerbusiness actually really kind of
kicked off when it would havebeen about four years ago because
Felix will be five. And Iremember I was bagging an order of
fertilizer in labor withFelix, and I was, like, trying to
get a hold of the farmer'smarket. And I was like, texting mom.
I'm like. Because I was threeweeks early, and I was like, so surprise.
(23:57):
Tiny creature has decided thathis eviction notice has been set.
Like, I need to vacate. And itwas a whole hullabaloo because I
was begging fertilizer. Andthen I had two more llamas were being
delivered that day. So I waslike, not nobody's favorite person,
but no one would say nobecause I'm like, literally, like,
(24:17):
expelling a human from mybody. And I've like, I'm wanted to
be in the barn to direct mygrandfather, who dropped everything.
He lives two hours away. Icalled him. I'm like, pretty sure
I'm in labor. The two llamasare coming today. They're on the
road. Like, I can't cancelthem. Like, can you come? And the
man I'm pretty sure set LanceFleet records to get here. And I'm
(24:39):
like, in the iwk. Like, in atub. Because I was like. Felix was
like, I'm coming, I'm notcoming. I'm coming, I'm not coming.
So, like, just go relax in atub. I'm like, relaxing is not, like,
on my to do list today. Like,would you like to see what's happening?
So I'm getting pictures of thellamas coming in the barn. It was
wild. So that's kind of how I,like, remember what my Timeline was.
(25:00):
And then it was that summer.Felix was. Yeah, Felix was just a
fresh little morsel. Andthat's when the fiber part kind of
kicked into it. So it's beenlike ever evolving since then.
So what was it about? Lookingback at that time and the ever evolving
of it, what was it that kindof led you to the fertilizer aspect
(25:23):
of it? Like, where did thefertilizer start for you?
It was the science. So I waslike, I was reading when I was getting
like kind of what I call likethe second wave of creatures is when
I got like Penny, PepperBlaze, spice. Well, spice was in
utero. But Jim and Brock, likeeverybody was in there. And they're
surrealamas. So their fiber isdifferent than what like the Argentinians
(25:45):
or the standard llama. Llamasare that you see around here. And
I started doing research ontheir fiber. Essentially I'm like,
well, what is the difference?Like, I don't really. They're llamas.
And again, I wasn't like intothe fiber world at that point and
I fell down this like rabbithole of just like figuring out like,
you know, how theirreproductive system, not the reproduction,
their digestive system works.Sorry. And how it's like a cold manure
(26:06):
and like it's high in nitrogenand xyz. And then believe it or not,
there was at one point is onshark. It was called like llama brew.
I think it was. It was a llamafarm who went on Shark Tank and had
like a million dollar dealwith the cannabis industry in California.
Because cannabis needsnitrogen as it's growing. And these
guys are super high innitrogen because of how they digest.
(26:27):
And they're cold. Like theirmanure is cold because they don't
have a lot of organic matterthat burns down when it's out. So
you can put it on at any time.And I'm like, I speak the science.
Like I know the science. Likeso now then it just kind of steamrolled.
I'm like, well, I can do this.And then I was reading, you know,
oh, well, they make 50 poundsof manure a week. Well, that's a
(26:49):
lot of manure. And then I wasdoing the math, like, how many llamas
do I have versus this and dada da. And the really cool thing
is that they always poop inthe same place. So. Which is like
bizarre to me. Cause I'll oneof my llamas pepper, she'll be like,
she'll be humming in her stallin the morning. I'm like, I know,
so like, she's literallywaiting to take her morning dump.
I'll open her stall door,she'll fly to the corner of the field
(27:12):
and you can literally just seeher ears droop and like, relaxation.
She's so happy that she waswaiting to poop. I'm like, this is
ridiculous. Like, you can poopanywhere, but you're like, you're
this systematic. It's crazy.So that's kind of how like the fertilizer
thing happened. And then Istarted like playing with like different
forms of like, what I wasgoing to do and how I was going to
do it. Being from a blueberryfarm and my grandfather's quite engineer
(27:36):
based, we rigged up thislittle device that like cleans out
the beans. It like blows outall the debris. I use shavings and
then I just have the beans andthen I do my stuff with them and
then I package them. Like, Ihave like west coast seeds and BC
is a wholesaler for me. Andthen I have like a lot of local ones.
Like, Scotian gold is here. Alot of the Atlanta co ops carries
(27:56):
it. It's in New Brunswick.Where's the other one? I have some
local greenhouses and stufflike that. So it just kind of like
made its way out the door,literally. I was playing with poop
as a side gig because, like,they're always pooping, right?
Well, we talk about side gigsor side hustles or anything like
that. You know, there's.There's a lot of things you can do.
(28:19):
Right? Right. And like. And atfirst, like, my. I. I remember. I
remember this clear as day. Iwas like, quite pregnant and like,
waddle down the stairs and myex was sitting there and I'm like,
I'm gonna sell llama shit. Andhe's like, okay. And I'm like, no,
like, I'm serious. Like, Iunderstand the science behind it.
Like, I can do this. And youcould tell. He was like, here she
(28:42):
goes. Like as most everybodyin my family does when I come up
with an idea and they're like,yeah, you're insane. But I mean,
why not? They poop. It'sthere. It fills a niche. Why not?
Exactly. Why not? That'samazing. Let's talk about the fiber
(29:02):
too. I'm admiring the fiberthat is behind you.
My background.
Let's talk about it.
So this was like. I literallywas like, okay, I've got llama suite.
Awesome. They need haircuts.They need to be sheared. Cool. Found
a shearer that was. And that'sa whole Other dynamic. And then I
(29:25):
was like, okay, they'resheared. Now do I do with it? Because
I can like process it. Like,what's that about? I'm like, okay,
well, I'll get it made intosomething. So then found a local
mill and was like, said like,XYZ and everyone. And they're like,
why would you want to sharellamas? Like, everyone is like mortified
over the fact that I have likeany affliction to do with llamas.
They're like, they'rearseholes and they spit. So I got
(29:49):
a process in the roving andthat's like the step that you get
it to. To be in order to spinit or to make it into yarn. And then
I was like, what do I do now?I gotta learn how to spin. Like,
I like, how do I learn how tospin? And I found the most magical
human in the world whoironically was really good friends
with the lady who I got myllamas from. And she had called me
(30:11):
and she had. She's English.And she called me one day and she
was talking to me on the phonebecause she knew that I had llamas.
She found me on Facebook andwas like wondering who my vet was
and da, da, da, da, da. Ididn't put two and two together who
she was because I had no ideawhat she was saying because her English,
her accent was so big. Andthen came back, found her own and
we were just gabbing and I'mlike, I want to learn how to spin.
(30:32):
Like, is this something thatyou'd be interested in doing? Like,
if not, you can tell me to gopound sand, that's fine. But I know
that you handspin like, I wasgiven your name. So every Friday,
I want to say for six months,maybe more, probably more like Friday
afternoons, I was at her placefor four or five hours and that on
(30:52):
my mat leave. And I learnedhow to spin. That's what I did. Hung
out with her. Hung out withher husband. Her husband. Oh, there's
a cat. Her husband is like themost collectible man. Like, love
him to bits, just hanging out.They introduced me to eggs and toast,
which is apparently an Englishthing. I was like, I understand having
eggs and toast, but like, it'san actual thing that you put the
(31:14):
eggs on the toast. Mind blown.Never. Never. I don't know what's
wrong with me, but the wholekitten caboodle. She taught me about
her sheep. Like, she hasWensleydales, like, learned on her
wheel. Let me borrow a wheeluntil I decided what kind of style
I wanted for my own. And thenI was like, where has this been my
whole life? Like, fell in lovewith it. Learned about, like, you
(31:35):
know, different fibers, abouthow, you know, llamas are hyperallergenic
because they don't have thelanolin. Their fibers, their micron
count between their fibers areso much smaller, so they're three
times warmer than sheep.Learning about different sheep fibers
and, like, you know, some havecurls, some have crimp, like, different
densities. And I was like, I'mthe youngest old lady ever. Like,
I was meant to be a pioneerand just sit here and spend all day,
(31:58):
because that's, like,literally. So then after that, it
just. I would. And then I hadmore llamas, and I was like, well,
I gotta figure out what to do.And then I ended up buying a Carter
and a picker, like, part ofthe processing thing and figuring
how to wash it at home. Andnow I literally have, like, a flu
factory, I call it, in my barnwith a space heater and a Bluetooth
(32:18):
speaker so I can listen to myaudio books and a Keurig. And it's
nothing for me if I havenothing else to do and I don't have
the boys for me to disappear.Disappear down there for, like, eight
or nine hours is nothing. Andjust do the thing. And then my wheel
is in my bedroom becauseusually I spend when the boys are
home because they're in theirbedrooms, and I'll just sit there
and spin away with, like,audiobook in my ears. And it's just.
(32:41):
It's so cool. And I neverthought, like, I'm not a crafty person.
Like, my mother is very flowerbed scrapbooking. Like, she can look
at something and, like, makeit look like Martha Stewart blew
up on it. Like, that's herjam. I can't draw stickmans with
skirts. Like, not. Okay. Andthen this is, like, my thing, which
(33:01):
is super cool, and it's justnever seen it coming, but it's super,
super neat.
Well, and it's kind of mixedall of your, like, your passions
and your hobbies all together.Right? Like, you love agriculture.
I can tell it. It's in yourblood, right? Yeah, you. And you
had said, like, you need theanimals, you need the space. And,
(33:23):
you know, what better way to,like, bring the loves of your life
and turn a profit out of it?
Yeah, that's. And that's. Andoriginally, like, the whole thought
was, you know, if you can payfor yourselves, that would be amazing.
You guys take up space andOriginally, when I started out, like,
I didn't have. It was just thellamas, and I had, like, three sheep.
(33:46):
The sheep blew up because Idecided for one year I would breed
sheep, because I'm like, I'mjust going to breed a few of the
girls. Because, you know,having lambs would be absolutely
amazing. And you fall in lovewith the lambs, and the lambs can't
go anywhere. And then, ofcourse. And that's. And that's a
big dynamic, too, is thateverybody who's here, like, my kids
have to be comfortable goingto the barn. They have to be comfortable
(34:08):
being able to go outside. And,like, you know, they want to go in
the field and walk down and gofrog hunting in the pond. Like, they
need to be able to do that andnot be afraid of anybody. I overkilled
that. My lambs, my ewes wholambed out were fantastic and, like,
were very, very comfortablewith me. So, like, I was in there.
It was great. That being said,the lambs are like golden retriever
(34:30):
puppies. Like, they see youcoming and they're like. And they
run, and then they just, like,lean on you. Like, they're paralyzed.
So everybody's friendly. Andmy thing is, it's like, how do you
part with animals that yourkids are that comfortable with that
are, like, gonna grow up here,especially when you have older stock?
Like, how do you swing that?So now I'm just like, well, I'm just
(34:51):
gonna. And then you can have.What happened last year that we said
ram lamb from that batch oflambs who were super friendly, who
was going off into the abyssto do ram lamb things at another
farm, decided to do ram lambthings before he was supposed to
here. So I walked out to thebarn one day, and I was like, there's
(35:12):
a lamb that. Hmm. And I calledmy person. So, incidentally, I'm
dating my shearer now, whichis a whole other dynamic we've been
together. He's my. I call himmy person. The she. The night in
shining shearing clothes, hewas in Quebec, shearing. I called
him, and I was like, there's alamb in the burn. Like, what is happening?
(35:33):
And he. And if to know mypartner is to know that I could tell
him, literally, and he's goingto hear this and get mad at me. I
could tell him that I got acamel or my leg fell off, and it
would be the exact sameemotional reaction. Like, nothing
stress. Like, he is calm,cool, collected. Him being calm,
(35:53):
cool, collected, shearingsheep and back was like, okay. And
I'm like, there's a lamb inthe barn. Nobody here has testicles.
I do not understand. This isnot. He's like, well, you've had
children. You know how thisworks. I'm like, wasn't nobody was
sheared. Wasn't feeding forbreeding. Like, was like. Like prenatal
(36:15):
care was non existent. Iwasn't set up. And I'm the kind of
person who's like, you'regonna have a baby. You move into
this pen three weeks early.We, like, pamp. Like, we watch you,
like, hawks. Like, we. Myworst fear is walking out and there
being a dead lamb half stuckout of a dead. You. Like, it's just
stuff that I'm like, I'm notbuilt for that. Again, he's like,
well, you know. You know howthis works. So then we quickly did
(36:37):
the math and realized that Leowas the ram. Did some things. And
ironically enough, I like mebeing me. Rapid fire gave everybody
a mammogram that was outthere. I'm like, grabbing utters
left, right and center. I'mlike, who was having what? Come to
find out, his grandmother wasa victim. So we ushered her in to
(37:00):
the maternity pen, and he,like, watched her like a hawk. And
I was like, and she's a greatmom. Like, she's been a great mom
since she's been here. She's.This. This was her third lambing.
And about a week later, I wentout and she had triplets. And I was
like, oh, good. Like, tripletsthe size of my hand. So I was on
(37:20):
bottle feeding duty for four.Four times. Like, four times a day.
However, my little humanFelix, these are his babies. He had
claimed them from the get goand. And three out of the four feedings
because he wasn't home for oneof them or he'd be sleeping. He would
come down with his bottle andhe would feed his babies. So now
(37:42):
he's like Dr. Dolittle. Thetriplets see him coming and they
run to him and he tips overhis little bucket and he sits there.
So then I'm like, how in thename of all that is holy do you part
with these three lambs whothis child is, like, invested in
and like, loves, talks aboutall the time. Their names are Maki.
(38:02):
Was it Maki? Mocha andmustache. And, you know, he will
sit in his stall with hisgoat, with his sheep, flip over the
bucket, and he will tell themabout his day. This is. This is why
I have 16 sheep. You can'tpart like. You can't part with that.
Do you know what I mean? Andit's just like, how. And everyone's
like, you know, well, theyhave to learn. I'm like, yeah, but
(38:23):
it's not like they have to.Like, I have older stock who will
eventually pass on, and that'sfine. But I'm like, how do you sacrifice
that comfort with him and thenbring something else in? And then,
you know, they get. He getsheadbutted, and everyone's go to
the barn again when you'refour, right? Well, we're heavy on
the sheep right.
Now, you know, and you hadmentioned before, you know, you said,
(38:43):
I'm not a good farmer becauseI named them. I have these emotional
attachments to me. Also not agood farmer. But we see it as being
a good farmer, right? Becauseyou are giving them their very best
life until they have. They'reno good, very bad day one day, right?
Exactly.
It's gonna happen. Life anddeath. It happens. And to be four
(39:07):
years old on a farm and to beable to have these emotional connections
to these animals who have apurpose, like, they are giving you
something, right? What a giftto give a child, right?
And that's what I keep tellingmyself. Like, my mom will growl at
me. She's like, you have toomany. Blah, blah. I'm like, but you
don't see him light up. Like,you don't see him, like, you know,
(39:28):
shove his waffle in his mouth.Want to go check on the babies before
he goes to school in themorning. Like, him wanting to, like,
run out of the car and godown. And he. He asked me for three
things for Christmas. Hewanted a box of hot dogs, which I'm
like, okay, you're for. We'llmake it happen. He wants a cow. And
I mean, like, sir, get inline. Like, we all want a cow. And
(39:50):
three. He wanted a hat madeout of the baby's fiber. He's like,
mommy, you make me a hat. AndI'm like, oh, my God. Like, sir,
like, how. Like, how Icouldn't have asked for anything
more amazing than that. Imean. And he knows, like, I know
it takes a long time. He said,I wait. Like, okay, like, so he gets
(40:12):
it. But, like, they gotsheared this year for the first time.
And he sat there on his bucketwith his feed bag waiting for the
fiber to come off. And he wasputting it in the bag. And then he
would pet them and say, goodjob. And off they go. And I'm like,
you know what? Having a fewmore, because he gets to do that
is invaluable like it'sinvaluable. And the fact that, you
(40:33):
know, everybody has a name andwe know them so well, it's like,
you know, like there was one,one day one of my llamas was sick
and I was just like, I knowsomething's off, but if I was to
call the vet, the vet would belike, what are you talking about?
Like, I just, I know. Like, Ijust know. But they wouldn't know
what to do. Anyway, he endedup passing away two days later because
he had. It went downhillreally quick and there was nothing.
(40:55):
It was a tumor of sorts. I.Us. But it's, it's also that too.
Right. Like there's, it's sucha small flock, but we know them so
well and we pay attention tothem. So I, Yeah, there's, there's
definitely pros and cons, butthe cons are the very worst. Bad
day.
Yes, absolutely.
Very worst.
I want to talk aboutsomething. And we chatted about this
before we hit record. Youmentioned, you know, you, you had
(41:19):
a husband and now he's your exhusband and you're co parent now
and all of the things.
Yeah.
Being in agriculture, I alwayssay the. When we're talking about
the big D and you know, youdon't mean Dallas. If anybody can
quote that song. Getting adivorce in agriculture is very faux
pas. I think getting a divorceat any point in your life or in any
(41:43):
career is probably faux pas.But in agriculture it seems to be
a big one. And obviously youhad a young family and you were relatively
a new farm in that sense. Whatmade you decide that you were going
to stay farming and continueto grow this business and kind of
what kept you motivated duringthat, you know, difficult time in
(42:04):
your life?
Spite and insanity.
This is why we're friends.
Full disclosure. You said, Ican't do that. Hold my beer.
Right.
In my case, it's usually acider or a glass, glass of wine.
And there was a lot to it.There was. My ex husband was pretty
(42:24):
adamant that he's. He's notfrom a rural background, he's not
from a rural setting and Ihave a lot of energy and big ambitions
and had an idea and it justdidn't jive. And then he decided
that this life wasn't for himand he vamoosed and went off and
is doing his own thing. Andthen I was sitting here and I'm like,
(42:45):
I've worked so hard to getwhere I'm at right now in every semblance
of my life. Like professionalthe farm, like, you know, making
a name for myself inagriculture, like out in the world
as my career. Career. I'm notgiving it up. And then the boys,
I was like watching them oneday and they were outside, like pounding
(43:07):
in puddles and like lookingfor worms and this whole thing. And
I'm like, I cannot, I can'tgive that up. Like, I can't. Like,
I need to make sure that thisis gonna work. Like, this is the
life that they need. Like,they're boys and I want to make them
boys. And especially in the,in like the world today where you
(43:28):
see like so many things oflike, kids who don't have these experiences
and they don't understand howit works. I'm like, I can't, like,
I'm not doing that. And thenthere was the dynamic where there
was like, you know, people inmy surrounding area who are like,
oh yeah, no, she's gonna packit up. Like, she can't do it on her
own. And I'm like, watch me.So and then I just did it and I'm
(43:53):
still doing it. And quitehonestly, there's some days, like
yesterday, prime example, wasa really, really, really bad day
for me because I woke up, wehad a huge windstorm. And the tarps
I have, I feed round bales andmy tarps were in oz and the top bales
were soaking wet. I'm 5 foot6, I'm 140 pounds on a good day.
(44:14):
Like, I had help doing that.I'm here by myself and I sat in the
shower and bald for 20 minutesbecause I'm like, how am I gonna
do this? Like, how, how do youdo it? And it's a process for me
especially because I'll hitthat wall where I'm like, oh my God,
how do I do this? What am Igonna do? Like, here are the dynamics,
(44:35):
here are the issues. And Ithink it's a lot being science based
too, is that like, I need tosee clear way through, through it
and understand how it's goingto work. I don't like this hypothetical
situation that you're in. It'slike, no, no, no, no, no. That's
all well and good, but itneeds, I need to know. And then usually
what happens after I likespiral, my brain kicks into this
(44:55):
weird overdrive where it justmakes things happen. It's like, okay,
so your tarps are like, Iliterally look like a deflated balloon
attached to this thing, tryingto get it back. Going to Oz. Like,
I'm not even joking. It was,it Was hilarious. Like, if anybody
drove by, they'd be like, thatgirl needs something. And it just,
it's like, it's the get shitdone method, I guess is more or less.
(45:18):
And then it's just brute forceand ignorance. It's like you make
it happen. It might not beexactly what you wanted or how you
wanted to do it, but it's asolution in the time and then you
can kind of build on it. Sothat's kind of happened. Kind of.
What happened with the firm isthat I bought it. I bought it from
him for however, whateverlawyers. I was like, I don't know
(45:40):
enough about this. I trust mylawyer. I had a fantastic lawyer
who was like, girl, I got you.Okay, good. Bought it. Kept it still
here with the boys by myself.Like, I do, I do have. I am dating
my shearer. He has his ownfarm and his own kids. Half an hour
down the road, we see eachother when it works. Like, I know
(46:00):
animosity. It's like, youknow, okay, I have 200 sheep this
year on New Brunswick, or I'mgoing to Quebec or I'm going here.
I'm like, okay, cool. Like, itis what it is. So I just, I just
make it work. And there's alot of stress sometimes. Like, a
lot of stress. I lot of. Andmy, like, my 4 year old especially
is very, very touchy. Like,like would climb back up into the
(46:24):
mothership given the chance. Ifeel and needs to be with me. And
I get very overstimulated withthat sometimes because it's like,
well, why? Like, well, why?And well, why and how? And show me.
And there's just. Sometimes Ijust need to like, get the stuff
done. But I try to be like,you guys could be in a condo in Halifax
(46:46):
in a box. Like, eyes crossed.So rough it out. And then I do day
2.0. So, like, we will comehome. It's. We get ready in the morning,
we go down to the barn. Finnhas his goats, Felix has his sheep.
They say good morning, theygive them their scritches, we hustle
(47:07):
back to the car, we go toschool, we come back, we do chores,
we come in, we eat, we go tobed. And then I go back and do the
actual chores because it'slike they help in some ways, but
they don't. I call it day 2.0.So most of the things get done in
day 2.0. But yeah, it's a lotof. It's a lot of work. It is full
(47:29):
on a lot of work. And I'm atthe point now where it's just like,
well, I got this far.
Right.
I'm not stopping now. Like,I'm not doing it. I mean, I'll probably
stop if I, like, break a hipor something, but I feel like that's
not in my. My 2000, I guess,will be 25 bingo card next year by
the time I started a new card, but.
Right.
It is what it is. Yeah.
(47:50):
Well. And to know that thosehard days are accompanied by your
son sitting on a bucketcollecting the fleece that is going
to make his hat, like, theyequal out in the end.
And you have to find thosesilver linings. Like, you absolutely
have to, because. And I wasbad for it for the longest time.
It was like. And it wasn'tthat it was like all doom and gloom
(48:12):
or like that type ofsituation, but it was very much like,
oh, my God, like, this is mylife. Like, we, like, he left when
Felix was nine months old.Felix was nine months old. I was
like, three days posthysterectomy. We have family issues
with ovarian uterine cancer.And I was like, well, I'm. He said,
(48:33):
I've got two. I'm done. Andthen I was technically stuck. Like,
I couldn't lift up Felix forsix weeks. I couldn't do any barn
shorts for six weeks, anyheavy lifting. So then right after
that, when I got the clear,it's like, strap on the baby to my
carrier, my back, send theother one to daycare or, like, pre
primary and get it done. Andthat stuff was like, super dark and
(48:56):
twisty. Like, it's like, what?Like, why? Like, what am I doing?
And at that point, therewasn't as much reward in it because,
you know, Felix didn't evenknow, like, his own name. He's back
there gooing and gone and,like, drooling on my sweater and,
you know, petting things. Andthen those would be the nights where
it's like, why am I doingthis? Like, what? Like, I, you know,
is this, like, do we get ridof everything? And then, you know,
(49:18):
you revisit it when, like, theboys are older and you have an idea,
like, where options isessentially, like. And then, you
know, you have the momentswhere it's like you walk out and
then, like, someone, like,sticks their muzzle to your face
and it's like, okay, well, howmany people can say that they have
however many llamas and da,da, da, da. So it was a very much,
(49:39):
a lot of, like, finding thetiny silver linings as much as you
possibly could. And not tryingto go insane.
So keeping it all together inthe process.
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Fake ittill you make it. Because, like,
there was a lot of faking.
Yeah.
And a lot of like, ye, youlook great and you look amazing.
And like, tell like, girl,what are you doing? And I'm like,
(50:01):
not eating, growing an ulcer,stressed as shit. And that one's
not sleeping. Like, that's whyI look like an Ethiopian pine husk.
Thank you very much. Yeah.
And, you know, I think whenyou look back on those really hard
times when things are kind oflike in the middle for you or they're
(50:22):
trending upwards, like, Ithink those are going to be the times
where not only I hope you takethe time to look back and say, I
did that and we got through itand we're here, but those are going
to be the times where yourboys look back to and say what a
cool life we had.
And that's the thing, too,that I, like, I keep telling myself,
(50:44):
because right now, you know,sometimes, like, it's snowing and
it's cold, and it's usually myolder one who's more like mom, and
it's like the little one who'slike, dragging me out the door. I
can't wait for that part. For,like, you know, when they go, if
they're, you know, whenthey're older and they're like, yeah,
we grew up on a llama farm andher mom's insane. And like, the stories,
(51:05):
they'll be like, what? Like,even now they have shirts that say,
like, my mom's the llama lady.And, like, people will see them.
They're like, oh, my God,like, you're Larry's kids. Because
Larry's a big on our, like,big on my social media presence because
he's the llama that wears theantlers and wears the hats and stuff
like that. And they're like,oh, yeah, we have Larry. So it's
(51:26):
like when they get older andthen they look back and they're doing
their own things and, like,this is hard. Like, this sucks. And
then they look. I'm very muchlooking forward to that because right
now it's like, getting through.
It, getting through it,getting through it.
Fake it till you make it.Yeah, 100%.
(51:47):
Sam, what. What are somethings that you are looking forward
to in terms of your farm? Anyprojects that you want to share with
us? What's the future plans?
The future plans? Well, I'mreally hoping that we will have baby
llamas at some point. Mydivorce Presence. And myself was
three intact males fromOntario, from a different farm that
(52:08):
had completely differentgenetics. And they are more interested
in themselves than anybodywith alternate breeding genitalia,
if you will. And I'm reallyhoping that there's, like, a switch
that goes off in their headsand they decide to spread the love
throughout the world. Becausebreeding llamas is a whole different
science. Like, it's theirinduced ovulators. Like, they don't
actually come into heats. It'sso weird. I'm just like, could, like.
(52:29):
And then they could be bornthe wrong way and fall on their necks
and break their necks and die.So I'm like, darwin didn't want you
to succeed as a species. Like,I don't understand. So I'm hoping
we'll have baby llamas. We'vejust added three angora goats to
the mix, as I was telling you.We now have Toast, Princess, Pineapple,
and April. I'm excited to playwith their fiber because I. I like
(52:50):
doing blends like I love. Wehave primarily fin sheeps. Not thin
fin sheep, fin sheep. A littlebit of Shetland in there, a little
bit of Wensleydale. So I'mvery excited to start blending different
fibers and getting different,like, consistencies, color tones,
stuff like that. I'm reallylooking forward to that and just
(53:11):
kind of seeing where it takesme. Right now I'm working on a few
weird little collaborationsthat. On the fertilizer side of things
to see how that goes. Butthere's just some cool stuff that's
kind of kicking around inhere, so we'll see where it comes
out. But it'll be fun.
Very cool. Sam, you are adelight and has been an absolute
(53:35):
pleasure chatting with you andI. I can't wait to see where all
of these collaborations go andall of the good things that are coming
your way. My last question foryou is, what is the most rewarding
part about being a rural womanfor you?
I think teaching my kids awork ethic, to be quite honest with
(53:55):
you and that, and probably,like, proving to yourself that you
can do it. Like, that's a bigthing for me. And I learned that
along the way. It's like,everyone's like, you're crazy. Like,
what are you doing? It's like,no, I think I got this. And then
actually having that feelingthat when you think you can do it
and then you do, it might notlook like how you thought it was
gonna be. Like, it might bemore of like a squiggly line versus
(54:17):
a straight. But man, that'srewarding. And then having, like,
little people watching youbeing like, whoa, like, you just
slipped that round bail all byyourself. And it's like, yeah, I'm
pretty sure half my organs arein my overalls. But it's done. So,
you know, it's stuff like thatthat I think that we don't give ourselves
enough credit for, and I thinkthat we really need to kind of like,
celebrate that type of thing.
(54:37):
Absolutely. Absolutely. Sam,for the folks who would like to connect
with you online, where canthey find you?
I'm on Instagram and onFacebook. Maplewerfarm. The picture.
There's a few Maple RiverFarms, but there's a picture of,
like, me kind of half my headwith a llama who looks like an orca.
That would be Lawrence. He's avery popular one. You can find us
(55:01):
there. I do have a YouTubechannel that's been sadly neglected,
so if you do see that, pleasedon't judge me. It's been a hot minute,
but Instagram's pretty muchthe main one that I go to, and Facebook
would be the other one as well.
Perfect. And we will link allof those in the show notes so people
can find you and connect withyou and continue to cheer you on.
Thank you.
Thank you so much for comingon the show today. I really appreciate
(55:23):
it.
Thank you for having me. Foreign.
Thanks for listening to theRural Woman Podcast. The Rural Woman
Podcast is more than just apodcast. We are a community. A huge
thank you to the Rural WomanPodcast team, Audio editor Max Hofer.
(55:44):
A special thanks to ourPatreon executive producers, Sarah
Riedner from Happiness by theeighth Maker. To learn how you can
become a Patreon executiveproducer or other ways to financially
support the show, head on overto wildrosefarmer.com to learn more.
Be sure to hit the Follow orsubscribe button wherever you listen
(56:05):
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leave a rating and review onApple Podcasts or anything, any other
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us on social media, theWorldWoman podcast, and with me,
(56:25):
WildRoseFarmer. One of thebest ways you can support the show
is by sharing it. Send thisepisode to a friend or share on your
social media. Let's strengthenand amplify the voices of women in
agriculture together. Untilnow. Next time, my friend, keep sharing
your story.
Hi, I'm Katelyn Duban and thisis the Rural Woman Podcast. I'm a
first generation farmer whomarried into agriculture. Born and
raised in a city, I was sounfamiliar with where my food came
from, but I was determined tofigure it out. Through my journey
into agriculture, I saw womenwho were strong but humble, often
(01:04):
taking a backseat. To me,these women were leaders who deserved
a seat at the table. I createdthe Rural Women Podcast to share
the voices of women in anindustry whose stories often went
untold. The ruralentrepreneurs who live and breathe
their work full of grit andpride. We come here to share our
(01:27):
stories, to be in communitywith each other, to be challenged
and inspired, but mostimportantly, importantly, to be celebrated
and to be heard. We may notall live farm, ranch or homestead
the same, but we are allconnected. We are rural women and
our stories are worthy ofbeing told. Hey everyone. Welcome
(01:57):
back to another episode of theRural Woman Podcast. Today you'll
meet Sam Haley. Sam grew up inrural Nova Scotia.
On a low bush blueberry farm,which truly cemented her love and
dedication to agriculture.After high school, she completed
her plant science diploma andlater her plant science degree, embarking
on a career in cropprotection. Starting out in conventional
(02:20):
chemical control, she.
Then branched off intobiological controls on a whim and
with what she now.
Calls her harebrained idea.
While five months pregnantduring the onset of the pandemic,
she decided to start a llama farm.
With her plant sciencebackground, she recognized the value
of their manure and how itcould be integrated into modern gardening.
(02:42):
Eleven llamas and 16 sheeplater, she.
Runs a small scale fertilizerbusiness, hand.
Spins the animals fiber andstrives to teach her boys a strong
work ethic. All while showingthem how everything has a place in
in the world. Friends, you aregoing to love Sam Haley just as much
as I do. I have connected withher through this podcast and since
(03:05):
on social media and she is atrue light in our industry and I
cannot wait to share.
Her story with you. Withoutfurther ado, my friends, let's get
to this week's episode with.
Welcome to the Rural WomanPodcast. How are you today?
(03:27):
I'm pretty good, thank you forhaving me.
I am so excited to chat withyou. For the listeners who are listening
to this, we've already beenchatting for the last 20 minutes
and I feel like Sam is my newbest friend on the east coast.
Come on out anytime, I'll showyou around, it will be fine. I can't
(03:49):
guarantee you to go back thesame, but you'll have fun.
That. That is just fine withme, Sam, for the listeners who are
unfamiliar with you, tell uswho you are, where you're from, and
how you got your start in agriculture.
So my name is Sam Haley. Igrew up in rural Nova Scotia in a
little place called Monasteryfor anybody who's familiar, on a
(04:10):
wild blueberry farm. So that'skind of where it all started. My
grandfather owns 60 acres justoutside of Anaganish county, and
we have a fresh froz line andwalk in freezers there, which has
developed over time. And he'llsell to local farmers markets and
little grocery stores andstuff like that. And that's kind
of where I got my feet wet inagriculture. And then it just kind
(04:33):
of took off like a house onfire. After that, I went to, which
is now known as dallasi wasNova Scotia Agricultural College.
And then they kind oftransitioned. So I have a plan science
degree and diploma from thereand then took a year off and, like,
it just worked just to kind offigure out, like, what I wanted to
do. And then I got a job inconventional chemistry sales for,
(04:54):
like, pest control. Sorry. Andthen I was in that job for about
eight years and then switchedto a biological job and then kind
of developed a flu farm, as Icall it, for lack of a better word.
I got married and alwayswanted llamas and procured a llama,
learned more about llamas, gotanother llama, and then went to look
(05:18):
at a herd of llamas. I waslooking at buying one, and I came
home with four. And my husbandat the time was like, you have a
science degree, you can count.This is not like. This is not one.
And I'm like. And then come tofind out that two of the llamas that
came home were actuallypregnant. So it turned out to be
six. Well, so now we have 10llamas, an alpaca, 16 sheep, and
(05:42):
three angora goats, all usedfor fiber. So I do everything but
shear. Sometimes I'lloutsource for washing, but I hand
spin, process, pick myself.And on top of that, the llamas, because
I have a plant science degree,I learned about their fertilizer.
And I also have a fertilizerline that I do with their poop. And
(06:02):
then that's just on the side.And I still work in agriculture for
a profession. I am a globalproduct manager for our biological
company based in Fredericton,but home offices in Switzerland,
and I do domestic sales forthem, too. And I'm on the blueberry
board for Nova Scotia.
So it's busy, is Very busy.And all pertaining to agriculture.
(06:22):
All pertaining to egg. Yep.
Right. So growing up on thatblueberry farm, how did it shape
your experience in your lovefor agriculture?
I just, like, I always likedit. Like, I just liked it. Like it
was always my grandfather'sthing. Like, he'd always drag me
(06:43):
around to meetings. He'dalways drag me, like, I'm going to
the fields, come have a look.Like, what do you see? What do you
think? Like, what it. Like,you know, and then I'd see on his
side of things that him tryingto figure out what the problems were,
like what that weed was, whatthat disease was, what that insect
was. And I'm very much like,I. I talked to my partner about it.
I'm like, I like to collectlittle old men now. Like, they're
(07:04):
my favorite things to do.Like, I will befriend the little
old men. Don't care what stylehearing aid you have, what color
pledge you have. Like, Igravitate to little old men, which
sounds so weird, but I lovethem. And I genuine, like, love hearing
their stories and like, how,like, how they got where they, like
where they are and all theknowledge that they know. Because
(07:24):
these people are going toforget more than I'm ever going to
learn. Like, realistically,because. Cause from back in the day,
it's like, oh, you know, theyhandpicked, you know, 200 acres with
hand rakes. And it's just likebarbaric to think about that now.
Cause it's all technology. SoI love dealing with little farmers
and that kind of stuck withit. I love solving problems for people
and that's kind of where itall started. And then even afterwards,
(07:46):
like all through high schooland most university, I milk cows
on the dairy farms, on variousones. Cause. And I just, I love cows.
It's like a. It's anaffliction that I'm plagued with,
like, as a species, as awhole. Like, I enjoy eating them
as well. Like, it's not thatit's just like, you know, save the
cows. It's like them as acritter. So it's always just kind
of been there and it's nevernothing. Like, nothing else has ever
(08:09):
really, like, stuck. I guessit's the way of looking at it. Like
I don't have any interest ifit's not agriculture, which is so
weird. Like, it's just weird.Like sitting in a bank, I'm like,
oh, your life dull. I mean,they don't get craft on or. You know
what I mean? Or like, and theyalso likely deal with cute little
old men too. But like, not,you know, not. Not in their forte.
(08:34):
I guess that's kind of how it.Yeah, that makes any sense.
I love what you said aboutthey are going to forget more than
I will ever learn. Like, Ithink that is the tweetable moment
right there. Because of theknowledge that they have. And they
didn't get it from Google.
No, exactly. It's all hands onlearning. It's all like, you know,
(08:57):
they have a problem, they'retrying to figure out how to fix it.
They're talking to all theseother people who have similar problems.
And it's like, hey, like, Imight not know what that weed is,
but I know what this weed is.And then, you know, what did you
apply? How does it work? Like,how? It's just so cool. Like, it's
just so cool. And I see itwith my grandfather now. He's like,
oh, back in the day I did thisand I sprayed this and you know,
(09:19):
da, da, da. And I'm like,okay, cool. But now that's how it
worked then. But now thatchemical might not be listed anymore.
It might be under a newregulation, a new name or something.
So that's kind of where I comein. And then it's like, I'm the golden
goose for five minutes untilhe forgets what I said because he's
80, he's gonna be 81. So it'slike I get the same question every
(09:41):
other week and I'm just like,we've talked about this, you sweet
creature. But yeah, it's true.It's just on how they do things versus
now. It's, it's incredible.It's truly incredible.
Talk to us more about yourcareer in agriculture. Prior to the
farm, you went to school foryour plant science education. What
was it about the scienceaspect of agriculture that interested
(10:04):
you?
So full disclosure. Fulldisclosure. I started out in the
equine diploma program becauseI was like, I rode like semi competitively.
I rode all around theMaritimes. I evented, I had my jumpers
and it was great. And I, Iknew myself enough to know that if
I didn't go back to schoolright after high school, I wasn't
going to ever go. And I waslike, okay, well, if I'm going to
do it, I might as well dosomething that I like. So we'll start
(10:26):
into the equine thing. Andthen I got into the program and I
realized, I was like, this islike, not okay. Like, I'm not enjoying
this. I'm Partying way toomuch. I'm here. I'm not really doing
what I should be doing. Andthen I was home for Christmas one
year and I was just likelistening to my grandfather talk
and like the firm and we weretalking, like, and it was stuff that
(10:48):
came secondhand to me. It'slike, it wasn't like I had to go
look up things. Like, I knewwhat was. Like, I knew what we were
talking about. I knew theissues that he had. And I was like,
why don't I go down thatroute? Like, I don't. Like I should
just. If this is such secondnature to me, like, why don't I go
after that? So I did mydiploma and I was like, okay, cool.
(11:09):
Realistically, what am I goingto do with a diploma? I could work
in greenhouses, which is notmy jam at all. Don't like the heat,
like that. Praise the peoplewho have greenhouses. There's a place
in time for them. I am notthat person. So I did my degree.
I focused on ediblehorticulture, which is low bush,
and did my honors on a weedspecies that we had problems with
in our fields. So I did all myfield work at home. And then I was
(11:32):
like, this is kind of my jam.Like, and then I, I realized, like,
this is what I liked. This iswhat I kind of wanted to do. And
then I just kind of worked. Iworked for a year at a pet food store
where I met my ex husband. Andthen I got offered a job. Somebody
remembered me. They're like,you're that blueberry chick. Like,
and I've been going to thesemeetings with my grandfather since
(11:53):
I was like knee high to agrasshopper. I was like the worst
shadow ever. Cause I nevershut up. And like, you know, some
people get handshakes fromthese farmers. And I, to this day,
if I go, when I go to themeetings, like, these little old
men are like. And they comeover and they hug you and everyone's
like, this is bizarre. Sothat's kind of like how it started
(12:13):
and then how it evolved. Andnow I'm doing all the things.
Doing all the things. So talkabout the positions that you've had
in the science field,essentially for agriculture.
Yeah. So I started out inconventional chem, which was I really
liked and I still do. I'm inmore biologicals now, but I'm very
(12:35):
much someone that's like, Ineed black and white. Like, show
me why this works. Give me thedata. Off I go. I don't like, you
know, oh, well, if you didthis, this, and this. Like, so I
started out in a conventionalchemistry company that's based in
Guelph. They were bought by acompany overseas, changed their name,
(12:55):
still kind of had the samething. And I did most of their sales
in Atlanta, Canada. So the onething about Atlanta, Canada is that
it's not like Western Canada.It's not even like Ontario. Like,
we might have, like, off thetop of my head, we have three main
retailers who all fight for apiece of the pie, depending on what
province you're on, too,because, like, Nova Scotia is more
(13:16):
hort. You'll see, like, a lotof potatoes and PEI in New Brunswick.
But, like, you have thosethree fundamentally fundamental people
here who are like kind ofshifting sand, essentially, of who's
going to buy from who andwho's going to do which. And so when
you get into that, such asmall market, you really kind of
need to know what you'retalking about and, like, how it works,
(13:36):
where it fits in yourprograms, if you're doing, like,
IPM products, if you're doingpurely conventionals. So I was in
that field for eight or nineyears, and then I. Life happened.
I had. My oldest was three. Myyoungest was nine months, and my
husband became my ex husband.And I was like, we need to pivot,
(13:59):
and we need to pivot quick.Because I, you know, wanted to phase
back slowly into work to tryto figure out how the dynamic of
life would happen. And then myheadhunter, actually, who had found
me for the other position waslike, hey. Like, we were just chatting
because I keep friends. It'swhat I do. Like, I meet people, get
to know them, and they justkind of stick in my orb. So even
(14:22):
though I had dealt with himnine years ago, I still chat with
them. Told him the situation.He came up, he's like, I have this
job. Like, I have thisposition. I think you might like
it. Like, I think it's justquirky enough that it would be a
good fit. So that's when. NowI'm with Andermatt Canada. They are
a biological company based inFredericton. But, like, head. Head
office is in Switzerland. So Istarted out doing their domestic
(14:45):
sales. And a lot of it is. Icall it. This is so horrible, but
I call it bioterrorism.Because people. When you talk about
biologicals or organics,people glaze over because they're
like, oh, you're walking outbarefoot, picking off bugs off a
plant. They think organic,organic. But this is like, we use
viruses that are found ininsects as an actual Pesticides,
(15:08):
and then we apply it back onthem so it infects them. And it's
very target specific. It'scalled bacloviruses. So we do a lot
of that stuff. And then wehave subsidiaries, I guess, like
sister companies based allover the world. So they will take
their actives and bring, like,one of our biggest products is from
South Africa. Like, one of myreally good friends is from South
(15:29):
Africa now because I met herthrough work and we're whatsapping
all the time, and it's crazy,but we also make them in Fredericton.
So there was a shift in thedynamic of the company and the position
of global product manager cameup. And they're like, you can talk
the ear off a deaf elephant.Like, we haven't seen anybody that
you can't talk to, regardlessof where they're at. Why don't you
give it a go? And I was like,okay, so now I do the majority of
(15:54):
the global sales for thecompany. Just the only continent
I don't deal with, I don'tdeal with Brazil because that's kind
of a bigger account. But,like, I have product going into Australia.
I have trials in South Africa,I have trials in Kenya way. We just
got stuff registered in. Ihave to go do a presentation in Argentina
in May. So it's super cool.And at first I was really kind of
(16:15):
skeptical because I'm like, Ineed the science to see how this
works. Because everybody saystheir stuff works, but I flat outside
of my interview, I'm like, Ineed to see this. So I seen some
data. I'm like, well, this isfun. So complete360, from conventional
to organic or biologicals orbioterrorism, however you want to
frame it. And now I'm in this.
(16:37):
So cool. As an organic farmermyself, love all of that, what you
just said, terrorism thing.I'm gonna steal that from you.
Yeah, well, that's exactly it.Because, like, you know, you start
talking about it andeveryone's like, oh. Because, you
know, depending on where youare, what your perception of organic
is, it's a real thing. Like, Iknow Amy Hill was on the podcast
(16:59):
before. She lives 25 minutesdown the road from me. Like, I went
to school with her, I know herand I've talked to her about this
stuff and she's more open toit. But, like, there's another farmer
across the hill 15 minutesfrom me who is organic, lovely. But
will go pick off every singleinsect off their plants. So it all
depends, right? It's in theeye of the beholder. So, like, if
(17:19):
I throw bioterrorism, you canreally see, like, who's. Like, the
eyebrows shoot up. Yeah,eyebrows shoot up. They're like,
go on. Or they just, like,disappear. So it's a really. It's.
I mean, I don't say it whenI'm at, like, corporate meetings
with everybody, you know,like, and as I've learned, the Germans
and the Swiss, like, don'tquite have the Atlantic. Joie de
(17:44):
vivre, if you will. Like,they. We literally walk into the
room, and they're like, oh,there's the Canadians. Like, what
are they gonna do now? So Ihave to watch my P's and Q's.
Yeah. Very cool. Very cool.And I just love the growth that you've
had from, you know, working onthe blueberry farm and milking cows
and kind of just figuring outyour own space and honestly creating
(18:08):
a space for yourself with yourfarm. So you started out with the
one llama, and then itobviously expanded. But what was
it about wanting a llama inthe first place? Why did you become
a llama farmer?
The universal question that mymother asks me on regular, she's
like, why can't. Like, why? Ihonestly don't know. Like, I. And
(18:32):
it's funny because every yearthe Facebook memory pops up. It was,
like, 12 years ago. It's like,you know, someone's going to catch
me walking in my driveway witha llama one day, and I won't be held.
Like, I won't be able to beheld accountable for it. But I just
always thought they were supercool. Like, literally, they're like
a modern, like, fiberdinosaur. Like, they're just the
weirdest things. And there's,like, such. And now they're really
(18:53):
big in, like, pop culture,where you always see llamas and alpacas
and drama llamas and all thisracket. But, like, they're super,
super cool. And one of myfavorite things about them, besides
their fiber, which. That waslike a whole gateway. Like, that
was a. That wasn't even on myradar. Like, the whole side business
was. It was just like, I justwant to love you because you're really
cool. But the one thing Ireally learned and I love about them
(19:15):
is their family dynamic, like,their herd dynamic. It is the most
stressful but neatest thingever. So, like, they are very much
like, we. So we lost. Who didwe. We. One of our mamas had a crea.
Baby had a birth defect. Shecouldn't latch properly. She had
(19:36):
a palate problem, and shePassed away. And this was like a
learning curve for me. And Iwas like, well, because, I mean,
a baby, anything deceasing isjust like. Like, I'm not a good farmer
in that sense. Like, everybodyhas a name. Everybody, like, you
know, has a personality. I'mnot. I'm not hard enough yet. So
I was devastated and was like,okay, we gotta. We did. We did a
(19:59):
autopsy to make sure ournecropsy to see exactly what it was.
I'm sure it was. And then Ijust swooped the body away, not even
thinking. Have you ever seen amama llama mourn before? She walked
the fence line for three dayswith her other daughter, who was
four years older at younger,like, older than this Kriya calling
(20:22):
and calling and calling forthat baby. And her daughter would
not leave her side. And I waslike, what is going on here? Because
this was the first death I'veever experienced. Like, I was like,
I didn't even think. And thenI did a lot more of deep dive into
it. And it's like, they'resuch a social creature that so now
we. And then since we've had afew more die and literally there
(20:44):
has to be a mourning periodfor them because they literally.
And it's not even just likethe shifting of the hierarchy and
like, all that stuff. They'regenuinely, like, mourning. It's bizarre.
So I've learned so muchthrough them. And then on an animal
scheme in general, like,things that can affect them and like,
things that, like, they'repartially diabetic right off the
bat, like, they can't havesugar. And I'm like, okay, well,
(21:05):
that sucks for you. But, like,you know, they're just. They're such
an enigma, and they're super,super cool. And then there's the
whole fiber and the fertilizerand like, this whole, like, they
don't. They do spit. They do.But, like, I've had them for what,
seven years? I've been spit onthree times and only once was on
(21:26):
purpose. So, like, it's.They're so neat. They're just super,
super cool critters.
They are very cool. And now Iwill forever know them as fiber dinosaurs.
Our neighbor has llamas andalpacas down the road. And now that's
all I will think of when Idrive past them.
Fiber dinosaurs is exactlywhat they are. And that you can thank
(21:47):
my son for that. He's like,they're like Bigfoot, but with floof.
It's like, right on, kid.Right on.
I love that. So what year didyou start the farm?
(22:48):
So Maple River Farm originallystarted out. I was Finn probably
eight or nine years ago. Andoriginally was chickens. So the name
I was we. I always hadcreatures here. That was kind of
part of my thing. Like, when Iwas with my ex husband. I'm like,
if we're going to be together,like, I need space, I need land.
Like, I am not an apartmentkind of gal. Like, I need to have
(23:09):
an area where I can, like,humiliate creatures and, like, do
my thing. So I was originally,like, hatching chickens. Like, I
was into Orpingtons and kindof chicken genetics, and I thought
that was really cool. And thenthe whole llama thing just kind of
happened. So I'm just tryingto think it was after fit. I had
my first few llamas when myoldest was three, I believe two or
(23:34):
three. And then the fertilizerbusiness actually really kind of
kicked off when it would havebeen about four years ago because
Felix will be five. And Iremember I was bagging an order of
fertilizer in labor withFelix, and I was, like, trying to
get a hold of the farmer'smarket. And I was like, texting mom.
I'm like. Because I was threeweeks early, and I was like, so surprise.
(23:57):
Tiny creature has decided thathis eviction notice has been set.
Like, I need to vacate. And itwas a whole hullabaloo because I
was begging fertilizer. Andthen I had two more llamas were being
delivered that day. So I waslike, not nobody's favorite person,
but no one would say nobecause I'm like, literally, like,
(24:17):
expelling a human from mybody. And I've like, I'm wanted to
be in the barn to direct mygrandfather, who dropped everything.
He lives two hours away. Icalled him. I'm like, pretty sure
I'm in labor. The two llamasare coming today. They're on the
road. Like, I can't cancelthem. Like, can you come? And the
man I'm pretty sure set LanceFleet records to get here. And I'm
(24:39):
like, in the iwk. Like, in atub. Because I was like. Felix was
like, I'm coming, I'm notcoming. I'm coming, I'm not coming.
So, like, just go relax in atub. I'm like, relaxing is not, like,
on my to do list today. Like,would you like to see what's happening?
So I'm getting pictures of thellamas coming in the barn. It was
wild. So that's kind of how I,like, remember what my Timeline was.
(25:00):
And then it was that summer.Felix was. Yeah, Felix was just a
fresh little morsel. Andthat's when the fiber part kind of
kicked into it. So it's beenlike ever evolving since then.
So what was it about? Lookingback at that time and the ever evolving
of it, what was it that kindof led you to the fertilizer aspect
(25:23):
of it? Like, where did thefertilizer start for you?
It was the science. So I waslike, I was reading when I was getting
like kind of what I call likethe second wave of creatures is when
I got like Penny, PepperBlaze, spice. Well, spice was in
utero. But Jim and Brock, likeeverybody was in there. And they're
surrealamas. So their fiber isdifferent than what like the Argentinians
(25:45):
or the standard llama. Llamasare that you see around here. And
I started doing research ontheir fiber. Essentially I'm like,
well, what is the difference?Like, I don't really. They're llamas.
And again, I wasn't like intothe fiber world at that point and
I fell down this like rabbithole of just like figuring out like,
you know, how theirreproductive system, not the reproduction,
their digestive system works.Sorry. And how it's like a cold manure
(26:06):
and like it's high in nitrogenand xyz. And then believe it or not,
there was at one point is onshark. It was called like llama brew.
I think it was. It was a llamafarm who went on Shark Tank and had
like a million dollar dealwith the cannabis industry in California.
Because cannabis needsnitrogen as it's growing. And these
guys are super high innitrogen because of how they digest.
(26:27):
And they're cold. Like theirmanure is cold because they don't
have a lot of organic matterthat burns down when it's out. So
you can put it on at any time.And I'm like, I speak the science.
Like I know the science. Likeso now then it just kind of steamrolled.
I'm like, well, I can do this.And then I was reading, you know,
oh, well, they make 50 poundsof manure a week. Well, that's a
(26:49):
lot of manure. And then I wasdoing the math, like, how many llamas
do I have versus this and dada da. And the really cool thing
is that they always poop inthe same place. So. Which is like
bizarre to me. Cause I'll oneof my llamas pepper, she'll be like,
she'll be humming in her stallin the morning. I'm like, I know,
so like, she's literallywaiting to take her morning dump.
I'll open her stall door,she'll fly to the corner of the field
(27:12):
and you can literally just seeher ears droop and like, relaxation.
She's so happy that she waswaiting to poop. I'm like, this is
ridiculous. Like, you can poopanywhere, but you're like, you're
this systematic. It's crazy.So that's kind of how like the fertilizer
thing happened. And then Istarted like playing with like different
forms of like, what I wasgoing to do and how I was going to
do it. Being from a blueberryfarm and my grandfather's quite engineer
(27:36):
based, we rigged up thislittle device that like cleans out
the beans. It like blows outall the debris. I use shavings and
then I just have the beans andthen I do my stuff with them and
then I package them. Like, Ihave like west coast seeds and BC
is a wholesaler for me. Andthen I have like a lot of local ones.
Like, Scotian gold is here. Alot of the Atlanta co ops carries
(27:56):
it. It's in New Brunswick.Where's the other one? I have some
local greenhouses and stufflike that. So it just kind of like
made its way out the door,literally. I was playing with poop
as a side gig because, like,they're always pooping, right?
Well, we talk about side gigsor side hustles or anything like
that. You know, there's.There's a lot of things you can do.
(28:19):
Right? Right. And like. And atfirst, like, my. I. I remember. I
remember this clear as day. Iwas like, quite pregnant and like,
waddle down the stairs and myex was sitting there and I'm like,
I'm gonna sell llama shit. Andhe's like, okay. And I'm like, no,
like, I'm serious. Like, Iunderstand the science behind it.
Like, I can do this. And youcould tell. He was like, here she
(28:42):
goes. Like as most everybodyin my family does when I come up
with an idea and they're like,yeah, you're insane. But I mean,
why not? They poop. It'sthere. It fills a niche. Why not?
Exactly. Why not? That'samazing. Let's talk about the fiber
(29:02):
too. I'm admiring the fiberthat is behind you.
My background.
Let's talk about it.
So this was like. I literallywas like, okay, I've got llama suite.
Awesome. They need haircuts.They need to be sheared. Cool. Found
a shearer that was. And that'sa whole Other dynamic. And then I
(29:25):
was like, okay, they'resheared. Now do I do with it? Because
I can like process it. Like,what's that about? I'm like, okay,
well, I'll get it made intosomething. So then found a local
mill and was like, said like,XYZ and everyone. And they're like,
why would you want to sharellamas? Like, everyone is like mortified
over the fact that I have likeany affliction to do with llamas.
They're like, they'rearseholes and they spit. So I got
(29:49):
a process in the roving andthat's like the step that you get
it to. To be in order to spinit or to make it into yarn. And then
I was like, what do I do now?I gotta learn how to spin. Like,
I like, how do I learn how tospin? And I found the most magical
human in the world whoironically was really good friends
with the lady who I got myllamas from. And she had called me
(30:11):
and she had. She's English.And she called me one day and she
was talking to me on the phonebecause she knew that I had llamas.
She found me on Facebook andwas like wondering who my vet was
and da, da, da, da, da. Ididn't put two and two together who
she was because I had no ideawhat she was saying because her English,
her accent was so big. Andthen came back, found her own and
we were just gabbing and I'mlike, I want to learn how to spin.
(30:32):
Like, is this something thatyou'd be interested in doing? Like,
if not, you can tell me to gopound sand, that's fine. But I know
that you handspin like, I wasgiven your name. So every Friday,
I want to say for six months,maybe more, probably more like Friday
afternoons, I was at her placefor four or five hours and that on
(30:52):
my mat leave. And I learnedhow to spin. That's what I did. Hung
out with her. Hung out withher husband. Her husband. Oh, there's
a cat. Her husband is like themost collectible man. Like, love
him to bits, just hanging out.They introduced me to eggs and toast,
which is apparently an Englishthing. I was like, I understand having
eggs and toast, but like, it'san actual thing that you put the
(31:14):
eggs on the toast. Mind blown.Never. Never. I don't know what's
wrong with me, but the wholekitten caboodle. She taught me about
her sheep. Like, she hasWensleydales, like, learned on her
wheel. Let me borrow a wheeluntil I decided what kind of style
I wanted for my own. And thenI was like, where has this been my
whole life? Like, fell in lovewith it. Learned about, like, you
(31:35):
know, different fibers, abouthow, you know, llamas are hyperallergenic
because they don't have thelanolin. Their fibers, their micron
count between their fibers areso much smaller, so they're three
times warmer than sheep.Learning about different sheep fibers
and, like, you know, some havecurls, some have crimp, like, different
densities. And I was like, I'mthe youngest old lady ever. Like,
I was meant to be a pioneerand just sit here and spend all day,
(31:58):
because that's, like,literally. So then after that, it
just. I would. And then I hadmore llamas, and I was like, well,
I gotta figure out what to do.And then I ended up buying a Carter
and a picker, like, part ofthe processing thing and figuring
how to wash it at home. Andnow I literally have, like, a flu
factory, I call it, in my barnwith a space heater and a Bluetooth
(32:18):
speaker so I can listen to myaudio books and a Keurig. And it's
nothing for me if I havenothing else to do and I don't have
the boys for me to disappear.Disappear down there for, like, eight
or nine hours is nothing. Andjust do the thing. And then my wheel
is in my bedroom becauseusually I spend when the boys are
home because they're in theirbedrooms, and I'll just sit there
and spin away with, like,audiobook in my ears. And it's just.
(32:41):
It's so cool. And I neverthought, like, I'm not a crafty person.
Like, my mother is very flowerbed scrapbooking. Like, she can look
at something and, like, makeit look like Martha Stewart blew
up on it. Like, that's herjam. I can't draw stickmans with
skirts. Like, not. Okay. Andthen this is, like, my thing, which
(33:01):
is super cool, and it's justnever seen it coming, but it's super,
super neat.
Well, and it's kind of mixedall of your, like, your passions
and your hobbies all together.Right? Like, you love agriculture.
I can tell it. It's in yourblood, right? Yeah, you. And you
had said, like, you need theanimals, you need the space. And,
(33:23):
you know, what better way to,like, bring the loves of your life
and turn a profit out of it?
Yeah, that's. And that's. Andoriginally, like, the whole thought
was, you know, if you can payfor yourselves, that would be amazing.
You guys take up space andOriginally, when I started out, like,
I didn't have. It was just thellamas, and I had, like, three sheep.
(33:46):
The sheep blew up because Idecided for one year I would breed
sheep, because I'm like, I'mjust going to breed a few of the
girls. Because, you know,having lambs would be absolutely
amazing. And you fall in lovewith the lambs, and the lambs can't
go anywhere. And then, ofcourse. And that's. And that's a
big dynamic, too, is thateverybody who's here, like, my kids
have to be comfortable goingto the barn. They have to be comfortable
(34:08):
being able to go outside. And,like, you know, they want to go in
the field and walk down and gofrog hunting in the pond. Like, they
need to be able to do that andnot be afraid of anybody. I overkilled
that. My lambs, my ewes wholambed out were fantastic and, like,
were very, very comfortablewith me. So, like, I was in there.
It was great. That being said,the lambs are like golden retriever
(34:30):
puppies. Like, they see youcoming and they're like. And they
run, and then they just, like,lean on you. Like, they're paralyzed.
So everybody's friendly. Andmy thing is, it's like, how do you
part with animals that yourkids are that comfortable with that
are, like, gonna grow up here,especially when you have older stock?
Like, how do you swing that?So now I'm just like, well, I'm just
(34:51):
gonna. And then you can have.What happened last year that we said
ram lamb from that batch oflambs who were super friendly, who
was going off into the abyssto do ram lamb things at another
farm, decided to do ram lambthings before he was supposed to
here. So I walked out to thebarn one day, and I was like, there's
(35:12):
a lamb that. Hmm. And I calledmy person. So, incidentally, I'm
dating my shearer now, whichis a whole other dynamic we've been
together. He's my. I call himmy person. The she. The night in
shining shearing clothes, hewas in Quebec, shearing. I called
him, and I was like, there's alamb in the burn. Like, what is happening?
(35:33):
And he. And if to know mypartner is to know that I could tell
him, literally, and he's goingto hear this and get mad at me. I
could tell him that I got acamel or my leg fell off, and it
would be the exact sameemotional reaction. Like, nothing
stress. Like, he is calm,cool, collected. Him being calm,
(35:53):
cool, collected, shearingsheep and back was like, okay. And
I'm like, there's a lamb inthe barn. Nobody here has testicles.
I do not understand. This isnot. He's like, well, you've had
children. You know how thisworks. I'm like, wasn't nobody was
sheared. Wasn't feeding forbreeding. Like, was like. Like prenatal
(36:15):
care was non existent. Iwasn't set up. And I'm the kind of
person who's like, you'regonna have a baby. You move into
this pen three weeks early.We, like, pamp. Like, we watch you,
like, hawks. Like, we. Myworst fear is walking out and there
being a dead lamb half stuckout of a dead. You. Like, it's just
stuff that I'm like, I'm notbuilt for that. Again, he's like,
well, you know. You know howthis works. So then we quickly did
(36:37):
the math and realized that Leowas the ram. Did some things. And
ironically enough, I like mebeing me. Rapid fire gave everybody
a mammogram that was outthere. I'm like, grabbing utters
left, right and center. I'mlike, who was having what? Come to
find out, his grandmother wasa victim. So we ushered her in to
(37:00):
the maternity pen, and he,like, watched her like a hawk. And
I was like, and she's a greatmom. Like, she's been a great mom
since she's been here. She's.This. This was her third lambing.
And about a week later, I wentout and she had triplets. And I was
like, oh, good. Like, tripletsthe size of my hand. So I was on
(37:20):
bottle feeding duty for four.Four times. Like, four times a day.
However, my little humanFelix, these are his babies. He had
claimed them from the get goand. And three out of the four feedings
because he wasn't home for oneof them or he'd be sleeping. He would
come down with his bottle andhe would feed his babies. So now
(37:42):
he's like Dr. Dolittle. Thetriplets see him coming and they
run to him and he tips overhis little bucket and he sits there.
So then I'm like, how in thename of all that is holy do you part
with these three lambs whothis child is, like, invested in
and like, loves, talks aboutall the time. Their names are Maki.
(38:02):
Was it Maki? Mocha andmustache. And, you know, he will
sit in his stall with hisgoat, with his sheep, flip over the
bucket, and he will tell themabout his day. This is. This is why
I have 16 sheep. You can'tpart like. You can't part with that.
Do you know what I mean? Andit's just like, how. And everyone's
like, you know, well, theyhave to learn. I'm like, yeah, but
(38:23):
it's not like they have to.Like, I have older stock who will
eventually pass on, and that'sfine. But I'm like, how do you sacrifice
that comfort with him and thenbring something else in? And then,
you know, they get. He getsheadbutted, and everyone's go to
the barn again when you'refour, right? Well, we're heavy on
the sheep right.
Now, you know, and you hadmentioned before, you know, you said,
(38:43):
I'm not a good farmer becauseI named them. I have these emotional
attachments to me. Also not agood farmer. But we see it as being
a good farmer, right? Becauseyou are giving them their very best
life until they have. They'reno good, very bad day one day, right?
Exactly.
It's gonna happen. Life anddeath. It happens. And to be four
(39:07):
years old on a farm and to beable to have these emotional connections
to these animals who have apurpose, like, they are giving you
something, right? What a giftto give a child, right?
And that's what I keep tellingmyself. Like, my mom will growl at
me. She's like, you have toomany. Blah, blah. I'm like, but you
don't see him light up. Like,you don't see him, like, you know,
(39:28):
shove his waffle in his mouth.Want to go check on the babies before
he goes to school in themorning. Like, him wanting to, like,
run out of the car and godown. And he. He asked me for three
things for Christmas. Hewanted a box of hot dogs, which I'm
like, okay, you're for. We'llmake it happen. He wants a cow. And
I mean, like, sir, get inline. Like, we all want a cow. And
(39:50):
three. He wanted a hat madeout of the baby's fiber. He's like,
mommy, you make me a hat. AndI'm like, oh, my God. Like, sir,
like, how. Like, how Icouldn't have asked for anything
more amazing than that. Imean. And he knows, like, I know
it takes a long time. He said,I wait. Like, okay, like, so he gets
(40:12):
it. But, like, they gotsheared this year for the first time.
And he sat there on his bucketwith his feed bag waiting for the
fiber to come off. And he wasputting it in the bag. And then he
would pet them and say, goodjob. And off they go. And I'm like,
you know what? Having a fewmore, because he gets to do that
is invaluable like it'sinvaluable. And the fact that, you
(40:33):
know, everybody has a name andwe know them so well, it's like,
you know, like there was one,one day one of my llamas was sick
and I was just like, I knowsomething's off, but if I was to
call the vet, the vet would belike, what are you talking about?
Like, I just, I know. Like, Ijust know. But they wouldn't know
what to do. Anyway, he endedup passing away two days later because
he had. It went downhillreally quick and there was nothing.
(40:55):
It was a tumor of sorts. I.Us. But it's, it's also that too.
Right. Like there's, it's sucha small flock, but we know them so
well and we pay attention tothem. So I, Yeah, there's, there's
definitely pros and cons, butthe cons are the very worst. Bad
day.
Yes, absolutely.
Very worst.
I want to talk aboutsomething. And we chatted about this
before we hit record. Youmentioned, you know, you, you had
(41:19):
a husband and now he's your exhusband and you're co parent now
and all of the things.
Yeah.
Being in agriculture, I alwayssay the. When we're talking about
the big D and you know, youdon't mean Dallas. If anybody can
quote that song. Getting adivorce in agriculture is very faux
pas. I think getting a divorceat any point in your life or in any
(41:43):
career is probably faux pas.But in agriculture it seems to be
a big one. And obviously youhad a young family and you were relatively
a new farm in that sense. Whatmade you decide that you were going
to stay farming and continueto grow this business and kind of
what kept you motivated duringthat, you know, difficult time in
(42:04):
your life?
Spite and insanity.
This is why we're friends.
Full disclosure. You said, Ican't do that. Hold my beer.
Right.
In my case, it's usually acider or a glass, glass of wine.
And there was a lot to it.There was. My ex husband was pretty
(42:24):
adamant that he's. He's notfrom a rural background, he's not
from a rural setting and Ihave a lot of energy and big ambitions
and had an idea and it justdidn't jive. And then he decided
that this life wasn't for himand he vamoosed and went off and
is doing his own thing. Andthen I was sitting here and I'm like,
(42:45):
I've worked so hard to getwhere I'm at right now in every semblance
of my life. Like professionalthe farm, like, you know, making
a name for myself inagriculture, like out in the world
as my career. Career. I'm notgiving it up. And then the boys,
I was like watching them oneday and they were outside, like pounding
(43:07):
in puddles and like lookingfor worms and this whole thing. And
I'm like, I cannot, I can'tgive that up. Like, I can't. Like,
I need to make sure that thisis gonna work. Like, this is the
life that they need. Like,they're boys and I want to make them
boys. And especially in the,in like the world today where you
(43:28):
see like so many things oflike, kids who don't have these experiences
and they don't understand howit works. I'm like, I can't, like,
I'm not doing that. And thenthere was the dynamic where there
was like, you know, people inmy surrounding area who are like,
oh yeah, no, she's gonna packit up. Like, she can't do it on her
own. And I'm like, watch me.So and then I just did it and I'm
(43:53):
still doing it. And quitehonestly, there's some days, like
yesterday, prime example, wasa really, really, really bad day
for me because I woke up, wehad a huge windstorm. And the tarps
I have, I feed round bales andmy tarps were in oz and the top bales
were soaking wet. I'm 5 foot6, I'm 140 pounds on a good day.
(44:14):
Like, I had help doing that.I'm here by myself and I sat in the
shower and bald for 20 minutesbecause I'm like, how am I gonna
do this? Like, how, how do youdo it? And it's a process for me
especially because I'll hitthat wall where I'm like, oh my God,
how do I do this? What am Igonna do? Like, here are the dynamics,
(44:35):
here are the issues. And Ithink it's a lot being science based
too, is that like, I need tosee clear way through, through it
and understand how it's goingto work. I don't like this hypothetical
situation that you're in. It'slike, no, no, no, no, no. That's
all well and good, but itneeds, I need to know. And then usually
what happens after I likespiral, my brain kicks into this
(44:55):
weird overdrive where it justmakes things happen. It's like, okay,
so your tarps are like, Iliterally look like a deflated balloon
attached to this thing, tryingto get it back. Going to Oz. Like,
I'm not even joking. It was,it Was hilarious. Like, if anybody
drove by, they'd be like, thatgirl needs something. And it just,
it's like, it's the get shitdone method, I guess is more or less.
(45:18):
And then it's just brute forceand ignorance. It's like you make
it happen. It might not beexactly what you wanted or how you
wanted to do it, but it's asolution in the time and then you
can kind of build on it. Sothat's kind of happened. Kind of.
What happened with the firm isthat I bought it. I bought it from
him for however, whateverlawyers. I was like, I don't know
(45:40):
enough about this. I trust mylawyer. I had a fantastic lawyer
who was like, girl, I got you.Okay, good. Bought it. Kept it still
here with the boys by myself.Like, I do, I do have. I am dating
my shearer. He has his ownfarm and his own kids. Half an hour
down the road, we see eachother when it works. Like, I know
(46:00):
animosity. It's like, youknow, okay, I have 200 sheep this
year on New Brunswick, or I'mgoing to Quebec or I'm going here.
I'm like, okay, cool. Like, itis what it is. So I just, I just
make it work. And there's alot of stress sometimes. Like, a
lot of stress. I lot of. Andmy, like, my 4 year old especially
is very, very touchy. Like,like would climb back up into the
(46:24):
mothership given the chance. Ifeel and needs to be with me. And
I get very overstimulated withthat sometimes because it's like,
well, why? Like, well, why?And well, why and how? And show me.
And there's just. Sometimes Ijust need to like, get the stuff
done. But I try to be like,you guys could be in a condo in Halifax
(46:46):
in a box. Like, eyes crossed.So rough it out. And then I do day
2.0. So, like, we will comehome. It's. We get ready in the morning,
we go down to the barn. Finnhas his goats, Felix has his sheep.
They say good morning, theygive them their scritches, we hustle
(47:07):
back to the car, we go toschool, we come back, we do chores,
we come in, we eat, we go tobed. And then I go back and do the
actual chores because it'slike they help in some ways, but
they don't. I call it day 2.0.So most of the things get done in
day 2.0. But yeah, it's a lotof. It's a lot of work. It is full
(47:29):
on a lot of work. And I'm atthe point now where it's just like,
well, I got this far.
Right.
I'm not stopping now. Like,I'm not doing it. I mean, I'll probably
stop if I, like, break a hipor something, but I feel like that's
not in my. My 2000, I guess,will be 25 bingo card next year by
the time I started a new card, but.
Right.
It is what it is. Yeah.
(47:50):
Well. And to know that thosehard days are accompanied by your
son sitting on a bucketcollecting the fleece that is going
to make his hat, like, theyequal out in the end.
And you have to find thosesilver linings. Like, you absolutely
have to, because. And I wasbad for it for the longest time.
It was like. And it wasn'tthat it was like all doom and gloom
(48:12):
or like that type ofsituation, but it was very much like,
oh, my God, like, this is mylife. Like, we, like, he left when
Felix was nine months old.Felix was nine months old. I was
like, three days posthysterectomy. We have family issues
with ovarian uterine cancer.And I was like, well, I'm. He said,
(48:33):
I've got two. I'm done. Andthen I was technically stuck. Like,
I couldn't lift up Felix forsix weeks. I couldn't do any barn
shorts for six weeks, anyheavy lifting. So then right after
that, when I got the clear,it's like, strap on the baby to my
carrier, my back, send theother one to daycare or, like, pre
primary and get it done. Andthat stuff was like, super dark and
(48:56):
twisty. Like, it's like, what?Like, why? Like, what am I doing?
And at that point, therewasn't as much reward in it because,
you know, Felix didn't evenknow, like, his own name. He's back
there gooing and gone and,like, drooling on my sweater and,
you know, petting things. Andthen those would be the nights where
it's like, why am I doingthis? Like, what? Like, I, you know,
is this, like, do we get ridof everything? And then, you know,
(49:18):
you revisit it when, like, theboys are older and you have an idea,
like, where options isessentially, like. And then, you
know, you have the momentswhere it's like you walk out and
then, like, someone, like,sticks their muzzle to your face
and it's like, okay, well, howmany people can say that they have
however many llamas and da,da, da, da. So it was a very much,
(49:39):
a lot of, like, finding thetiny silver linings as much as you
possibly could. And not tryingto go insane.
So keeping it all together inthe process.
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Fake ittill you make it. Because, like,
there was a lot of faking.
Yeah.
And a lot of like, ye, youlook great and you look amazing.
And like, tell like, girl,what are you doing? And I'm like,
(50:01):
not eating, growing an ulcer,stressed as shit. And that one's
not sleeping. Like, that's whyI look like an Ethiopian pine husk.
Thank you very much. Yeah.
And, you know, I think whenyou look back on those really hard
times when things are kind oflike in the middle for you or they're
(50:22):
trending upwards, like, Ithink those are going to be the times
where not only I hope you takethe time to look back and say, I
did that and we got through itand we're here, but those are going
to be the times where yourboys look back to and say what a
cool life we had.
And that's the thing, too,that I, like, I keep telling myself,
(50:44):
because right now, you know,sometimes, like, it's snowing and
it's cold, and it's usually myolder one who's more like mom, and
it's like the little one who'slike, dragging me out the door. I
can't wait for that part. For,like, you know, when they go, if
they're, you know, whenthey're older and they're like, yeah,
we grew up on a llama farm andher mom's insane. And like, the stories,
(51:05):
they'll be like, what? Like,even now they have shirts that say,
like, my mom's the llama lady.And, like, people will see them.
They're like, oh, my God,like, you're Larry's kids. Because
Larry's a big on our, like,big on my social media presence because
he's the llama that wears theantlers and wears the hats and stuff
like that. And they're like,oh, yeah, we have Larry. So it's
(51:26):
like when they get older andthen they look back and they're doing
their own things and, like,this is hard. Like, this sucks. And
then they look. I'm very muchlooking forward to that because right
now it's like, getting through.
It, getting through it,getting through it.
Fake it till you make it.Yeah, 100%.
(51:47):
Sam, what. What are somethings that you are looking forward
to in terms of your farm? Anyprojects that you want to share with
us? What's the future plans?
The future plans? Well, I'mreally hoping that we will have baby
llamas at some point. Mydivorce Presence. And myself was
three intact males fromOntario, from a different farm that
(52:08):
had completely differentgenetics. And they are more interested
in themselves than anybodywith alternate breeding genitalia,
if you will. And I'm reallyhoping that there's, like, a switch
that goes off in their headsand they decide to spread the love
throughout the world. Becausebreeding llamas is a whole different
science. Like, it's theirinduced ovulators. Like, they don't
actually come into heats. It'sso weird. I'm just like, could, like.
(52:29):
And then they could be bornthe wrong way and fall on their necks
and break their necks and die.So I'm like, darwin didn't want you
to succeed as a species. Like,I don't understand. So I'm hoping
we'll have baby llamas. We'vejust added three angora goats to
the mix, as I was telling you.We now have Toast, Princess, Pineapple,
and April. I'm excited to playwith their fiber because I. I like
(52:50):
doing blends like I love. Wehave primarily fin sheeps. Not thin
fin sheep, fin sheep. A littlebit of Shetland in there, a little
bit of Wensleydale. So I'mvery excited to start blending different
fibers and getting different,like, consistencies, color tones,
stuff like that. I'm reallylooking forward to that and just
(53:11):
kind of seeing where it takesme. Right now I'm working on a few
weird little collaborationsthat. On the fertilizer side of things
to see how that goes. Butthere's just some cool stuff that's
kind of kicking around inhere, so we'll see where it comes
out. But it'll be fun.
Very cool. Sam, you are adelight and has been an absolute
(53:35):
pleasure chatting with you andI. I can't wait to see where all
of these collaborations go andall of the good things that are coming
your way. My last question foryou is, what is the most rewarding
part about being a rural womanfor you?
I think teaching my kids awork ethic, to be quite honest with
(53:55):
you and that, and probably,like, proving to yourself that you
can do it. Like, that's a bigthing for me. And I learned that
along the way. It's like,everyone's like, you're crazy. Like,
what are you doing? It's like,no, I think I got this. And then
actually having that feelingthat when you think you can do it
and then you do, it might notlook like how you thought it was
gonna be. Like, it might bemore of like a squiggly line versus
(54:17):
a straight. But man, that'srewarding. And then having, like,
little people watching youbeing like, whoa, like, you just
slipped that round bail all byyourself. And it's like, yeah, I'm
pretty sure half my organs arein my overalls. But it's done. So,
you know, it's stuff like thatthat I think that we don't give ourselves
enough credit for, and I thinkthat we really need to kind of like,
celebrate that type of thing.
(54:37):
Absolutely. Absolutely. Sam,for the folks who would like to connect
with you online, where canthey find you?
I'm on Instagram and onFacebook. Maplewerfarm. The picture.
There's a few Maple RiverFarms, but there's a picture of,
like, me kind of half my headwith a llama who looks like an orca.
That would be Lawrence. He's avery popular one. You can find us
(55:01):
there. I do have a YouTubechannel that's been sadly neglected,
so if you do see that, pleasedon't judge me. It's been a hot minute,
but Instagram's pretty muchthe main one that I go to, and Facebook
would be the other one as well.
Perfect. And we will link allof those in the show notes so people
can find you and connect withyou and continue to cheer you on.
Thank you.
Thank you so much for comingon the show today. I really appreciate
(55:23):
it.
Thank you for having me. Foreign.
Thanks for listening to theRural Woman Podcast. The Rural Woman
Podcast is more than just apodcast. We are a community. A huge
thank you to the Rural WomanPodcast team, Audio editor Max Hofer.
(55:44):
A special thanks to ourPatreon executive producers, Sarah
Riedner from Happiness by theeighth Maker. To learn how you can
become a Patreon executiveproducer or other ways to financially
support the show, head on overto wildrosefarmer.com to learn more.
Be sure to hit the Follow orsubscribe button wherever you listen
(56:05):
to the podcast to get thelatest episodes directly on your
playlist. And if you areloving the show, please be sure to
leave a rating and review onApple Podcasts or anything, any other
platform that accepts ratingsand reviews. You can connect with
us on social media, theWorldWoman podcast, and with me,
(56:25):
WildRoseFarmer. One of thebest ways you can support the show
is by sharing it. Send thisepisode to a friend or share on your
social media. Let's strengthenand amplify the voices of women in
agriculture together. Untilnow. Next time, my friend, keep sharing
your story.
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