April 18, 2025 • 51 mins
On this week's episode of The Rural Woman Podcast™, you'll meet Madeline Pranaitis.
Madeline is a first-generation farmer from Connecticut with a passion for animals, sparked by childhood visits to her aunt’s farm. She earned a degree in livestock and draft power, gaining experience with draft horses and oxen. Now in upstate New York, Madeline manages a calf program on a dairy farm, runs her homestead, and has realized her dream of owning a team of draft mules.
For full show notes, including links mentioned in the show, head over to wildrosefarmer.com/218
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DISCUSSIONS THIS WEEK:
04:32 The Impact of 4-H and Early Experiences in Agriculture
07:17 Educational Path and College Experiences in Animal Science
10:22 Becoming a Gypsy Farmer: Diverse Agricultural Experiences
13:43 Passion for Draft Animals and Their Role in Agriculture
16:37 Training and Working with Draft Animals
19:43 Future Aspirations with Draft Animals and Mules
30:07 Growing From Small to Large Dairy Operations
40:33 Building Community in Agriculture
. . .
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Meet the Team
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:40):
Hi, I'm Katelyn Duban and thisis the Rural Woman Podcast. I'm a
first generation farmer whomarried into agriculture. Born and
raised in a city, I was sounfamiliar with where my food came
from, but I was determined tofigure it out. Through my journey
into agriculture, I saw womenwho were strong but humble, often
(01:04):
taking a back seat. To me,these women were leaders who deserved
a seat at the table. I createdthe Rural Women Podcast to share
the voices of women in anindustry whose stories often went
untold. The ruralentrepreneurs who live and breathe
their work full of grit andpride. We come here to share our
(01:27):
stories, to be in communitywith each other, to be challenged
and inspired, but mostimportantly, family. To be celebrated
and to be heard. We may notall live farm, ranch or homestead
the same, but we are allconnected. We are rural women and
(01:47):
our stories are worthy ofbeing told. Hey everyone. Welcome
back to another episode of theRural Women Podcast. Today you'll
meet Madeline Pernitis.Madeline is a first generation farmer
from Connecticut with apassion for animals.
(02:07):
Sparked by childhood visits toher aunt's.
Farm, she earned a degree inlivestock and draft power, gaining
experience with draft horsesand oxen. Now in upstate New York,
Madeline manages a calfprogram on a dairy farm, runs her
homestead, and has realizedher dream of owning a team of draft
mules. I cannot wait for youto meet Madeline. She is as sweet
(02:31):
as can be and has a greatstory to share. Without further ado,
my friends, let's get to thisweek's episode with Madeline.
Madeline, welcome to the RuralWoman Podcast.
How are you today?
I'm great. How are you?
I'm doing so well. I am soexcited to dive into the multi layers
(02:58):
of the multi passionateMadeline that you are in agriculture.
So before I fangirl too muchfor the folks who are unfamiliar
with you, can you tell us whoyou are, where you're from and how
you got your start in agriculture?
Yeah, absolutely. I'm beyondexcited. I've been a long time listener.
So my name is MadelinePernitis. I am from a really small
(03:22):
town in Connecticut on theFarmington River. I'm not from a
farm family. I actually got alot of my inspiration from my aunt
who is no longer with us, butshe had a horse boarding business
that is still run today andshe was such an influence on me with
her love for animals. So Idefinitely got that from her and
(03:46):
continued that on in myinterest growing up. Horseback riding.
I did farm camp over thesummer. We got to, you know, collect
the eggs and things like that.And it Just developed my interest
into continuing on withagriculture in my later years through
4H and right into college as well.
(04:08):
Very cool. I love theinspiration that can come from family
members and their loves andtheir hobbies and myself not growing
up on a farm and in a farmfamily. I did have cousins who had
horses, and I always thought,like, I would just love to have a
horse. And my parents gave methe option, like, you could have
a horse or you could have afour wheeler and we could go camping
(04:31):
on the weekends. So that'swhat. That's the route that I took,
but eventually ended up on afarm. But tell us about your 4H journey.
What did you do in 4H?
So I gravitated towardsraising a heifer through the dairy
club. So my town wasdefinitely not a farming community.
(04:55):
It once was just really smalldairies, but it was more geared towards,
like, lacrosse and football,that sort of atmosphere. And I was
just really a farm kid atheart. And I remember going up to
my mom because one of my bestfriends was in 4h in the next town
over. And I used to see herevery week at church when we go to
(05:20):
Sunday school. And she'd tellme all about, you know, what she
was working on with herchickens and rabbits and things.
And she's like, you shouldjoin. I'm like, okay, I'll go ask
my mom. And they had a dairycattle group and they would show
over the summer at a littlecounty fair. And so I went and asked
(05:40):
my mom. I'm like, mom, can Iget a cow? She's like, madeline,
we live in a suburb. Where doyou think we're going to have. She
was completely confused. And Ithought it was a great idea. I didn't
think anything of it. And I'mlike, well, you just paid $20 and
you can have one. Like, it'sthat simple, Mom. Like, we can totally
do this. And after finding outa little bit more information, of
(06:03):
course, you know, the animalstays active. The local farm in a
really small town calledGranby, Connecticut, it's a little
bit more of, like a ruralsetting compared to, you know, where
I grew up. In a. In a suburb,you can go as often as you wish,
and you work with your animal.And when the fair comes around, you
enter into your age groupclass, you wear all white, which
(06:27):
to this day is. I just alwaysfeel super impractical when you're
working with animals to haveto just wear all white. But it. It
just really solidified mypassion for animals. And working
with animals every single day,it was something I looked forward
to after school. Ended updeveloping into a degree in college,
(06:49):
and that turned into a career.
All from that $20 cow thatyour mom just was so confused by.
I love that. And, you know,growing up, we have 4H here, and
it was something that I didn'teven know was an option. Weren't
a farm kid. And to hear somany incredible stories of people
(07:09):
who have found their way to 4Hsome way, somehow, and have them
connect not only with animals,but to other kids, and just to have
those skills as a kid and allof the different people that you
meet, I think those arelifelong lessons that you learn.
Oh, absolutely. It. It reallyfollowed me through everything that
(07:30):
I have done since, especiallywith, you know, public speaking or,
you know, doing class projectsor group projects or just working,
you know, in my job, learninghow to. How to network and reach
out to those who know a littlebit more than I do in the area that,
you know, I have questions in.And it's just developed this, like,
(07:53):
great community, all just kindof working together.
Yeah, for sure. So tell usabout your schooling and your college.
What did you take, where didyou go, and what have you done with
it?
So in high school, I had a lotof concussions, so I wasn't able
to travel as much as I wouldlike to go visit colleges. So I did
(08:14):
take a post grad year inbetween high school and college,
and the program offered someclasses at the high school level
and then also a few on thecollege level. And then we did this
project. So basically, wecould pick any project that we wanted
to do that was some sort ofeducational aspect. You had to write
(08:35):
up a proposal and propose youridea. And I wanted to bring a chicken
coop to campus. And mind you,where this campus is located is in
East Hartford, in Hartford,Connecticut. It's a city. So eventually,
after multiple revisions ofthis proposal, I had to jump through
(08:58):
a lot of extra hoops, and Idefinitely ruffled some feathers
on that campus, no punintended. But I really was really
on this project, and I wantedto give my fellow students an opportunity
to sort of be around animalslike how I did with 4H. Without that
(09:18):
kind of exposure, I wouldn'thave really known what it was about,
and then I wouldn't have knownhow much I wanted to pursue it. So
I got four chickens from theplace that I used to go to farm camp
from, and I used my proposalmoney to buy a little chicken coop
and brought them there. And Idid a presentation in front of my
(09:40):
whole entire school, holdingone of My chickens in front of all
these people explaining myproject and how passionate I am about
agriculture and what I've beendoing in 4H and just kind of like
share with everybody who mayhave never even seen a chicken in
person. And it just reallysparked that passion from there on
(10:02):
out. Ended up pursuing adegree in livestock and I got my
Bachelor's of Animal scienceat SUNY Coble School in New York
State. And it's a four yearprogram. I did about three years
on campus and in between thereI had various farm jobs, whether
it be on a dairy farm or not,just working with animals in between
(10:26):
semesters. And then Itransferred to a very, very tiny
work college in Vermont and itwas kind of half ecology majors and
the other half was some sortof agricultural base degrees. And
there that's where I reallykind of solidified my degree in livestock
(10:49):
sustainable agriculture. Andthen I added a really big piece of
draft power that sort ofblended all of what I've learned
into one degree.
And since college you haveessentially became a gypsy farmer,
as you like to call yourselfthat. So talk to us about, you know,
(11:11):
the different experiencesyou've had since those college years
and the different farms you'veworked on since then.
Yeah, absolutely. So I like tocall myself a gypsy farmer back then
because I really was alwaysmoving, not because I didn't like
what I was doing. I was justlike, just seeking every opportunity
(11:31):
to learn something new or workwith a different kind of animal or
in a different animal basedindustry. And it led me all over
the place. I, I moved wellover 10 times, maybe even more, either
with the seasons or as myinterests changed. So I dabbled a
little bit in Virginia rightafter I graduated in 2018 and I worked
(11:57):
a little bit on the vegetableside and kind of found that I'm not
so much like a plant kind ofgal. So that ended up having me move
a little bit over and havingsome experience in the polo industry
and growing up riding horses,I was really excited about it. It
(12:17):
was really fun, verydifferent, very like glamorous and
clean and fast paced. Completeopposite of what I was doing before,
you know, like, you know,weeding the gardens and going to
markets and really gettingvery dirty. So I went and did a little
bit in polo and moved a fewmore times here and there, working
(12:40):
on other farms, interviewingplaces, trying to figure out where
I wanted to go. I've worked athumane societies. I was a vet tech
for a short time. Just kind ofbrought me all over the place. Now
I'm living in Northern NewYork state on the Canadian line.
(13:00):
So very, very far north, rightin the middle of Amish country.
That's so cool. And I lovethat you went out to seek these different
opportunities. You know, I wasrecently having this conversation
with a friend of mine and wewere talking about generationally
(13:21):
where, you know, of thegeneration, they were told that they
had to find one job and theystayed with that job for their entire
lives. And that generationraised me. And so I very much had
that feeling that I needed tofind a career and it needed to be
like the one thing that I did.And you know, since kind of growing
(13:44):
from that and now doing what Ido, which is completely different
than what I ever thought Iwould be doing. To hear that you
took those opportunities tojust do a bunch of different things
to see what you liked doing. Ihave a lot of respect for that.
Thank you. Yeah, a big, A bigpiece and a big chunk of time I was
(14:05):
in Vermont when, you know,post Virginia, post Rhode island,
post livestock manager kind ofstuff. I really enjoyed my time on
a all pastured meat and eggfarm in Vermont, in Richmond, Vermont,
called Maplewind Farm. Andthat's where I got all of my butchering
(14:28):
experience. We had a flock oflike 1800 laying hens. We had pigs
on pasture, beef on pasture,and we did meet birds. And during
my time there, I was there forabout three years. We scaled up to
about a thousand birds in abatch that we'd process on site.
And it's a small USDA plant,so we are inspected. So I got to
(14:54):
really dive deep in all of thelogistics of what it takes to be
a USDA certified inspectedfacility, which there really wasn't
one around there. In my lastyear, I got to co manage the facility,
which was really cool, butbeing a part of every aspect of chores.
Collecting, washing andpacking eggs, you know, feeding the
(15:17):
birds and moving them on freshpasture every morning. And then after
the eight weeks, we'd collectthem all up and bring them up to
the main farm and we'd processall of them and eventually we'd package
all of them and label them.And you know, I get to see the people,
you know, in person who comeevery day or every week to come and
(15:38):
buy the products that we justspent, you know, all that time and
energy creating. Definitelyone of my favorite jobs I've ever
had was, was working there.
You have mentioned about draftanimals. I want to know more about
(16:42):
this. I am really racking mybrain to remember if I have spoken
to any women who a are asPassionate about draft animals as
you are, but b, have reallybeen immersed in the culture where
draft animals are still a mainsource of labor. So talk to us about,
(17:05):
you know, you said back incollege learning about draft animals,
that being a big part of youreducation. Where did that love come
from for you?
I'm not sure. I think, youknow, when you're a kid and you go
to a farm and you know,there's a couple draft horses there,
you get to pet them andthey're just so big. Like as a kid,
I don't think really there'smany animals besides a cow that are
(17:27):
really that big and thatgentle and they just move so slow.
And I think just from a youngage I was always really drawn by
their presence and be aroundthem. Now, I mean, to me it's very
normal to drive down the roadand have to wait behind a buggy that
someone's, you know, drivingon a regular basis every day. I'm
(17:50):
always, you know, beingmindful of there's a whole other
community that live amongstus. And I just find how they live
and how they work sofascinating. And it often kind of
makes me slow down and justreally like pay just a little bit
more attention to thingsaround me and in my work and be very
(18:14):
grateful for like, thebeautiful scenery and their farms
are amazing to look at. Andyou know, yesterday I even, you know,
just driving, doing regularerrands, there was someone working
out in the field and they hadfour Belgians together and they're
plowing and to me, you know,like, I just think that's the coolest
(18:39):
thing and it's almost like adaily thing that I get to see. So
when I mention it to my familyor friends and it's not normal for
them, but for me it is. And Ithink it's really great that I get
to live and be surrounded thatbecause I'm trying to make that a
part of my everyday as well.Living and working, you know, on
(19:03):
a conventional farm, a 3,000cow dairy, where everything is fairly
high tech and calculated. Werely on a lot of, you know, heavy
machinery and feed carts andthings like that. And right next
door it's Amish farms. So it'slike really cool to. To have both
and to have my mule team wasreally cool, happening. I'm almost
(19:30):
gonna be 30, so that's reallyscary. And I just kind of had like
this moment of, you know.Yeah, you know, one day in my life
I'll have a team of giraffesor I'll have a Team of mules. And
that was like the one big likelife goal. A few days later their
ad came up and it was, it justkind of meant, was meant to be. And
(19:53):
I didn't hesitate on it andwent to go see them and check them
out. And within the next monththey were at our friend's farm, which
is actually, they converted anAmish farm back to more, you know,
regular water power setup. Sothe mules are, you know, they used
(20:14):
to be an Amish team and nowthey're back, you know, on an Amish
farm and I get to enjoy themkind of in their retirement. They're
older, definitely slowed downand more at my level. I'm still learning
too, but to get to learn froman experienced team and a team of
mules was a huge life goal forme that I can now say that has happened.
(20:39):
And I also have oxen, which isreally different. They've got giant
horns and they're really big.So to have them, you know, on the
same property that I work onand get to see and interact with
them every day is a hugeprivilege and just really lucky to.
To have that.
(21:00):
Yeah. And that's very cool.And like you mentioned, you work
on a very regulated and largescale dairy operation. Right. That
is most likely the completeopposite of an Amish farm. Right.
So your day to day is sodifferent and it'll vary and it's
so vast. So let's dig in rightnow to, to your draft animals and
(21:25):
to what you're doing on yourhomestead and where you hope to go
with that. And then we'll flipto the, the other side of the technology
and all of the things that youget to do in your day to day life
at work.
Yeah. So the oxen right nowI'm still actively training. I have
a team of brown Swiss that areabout two years old. Those are the
(21:48):
guys that got the giant hornsand they're well over a thousand
pounds at this point. Andthey're in training still, but they
can pull small loads andthings like that. I do have them
trained to work as a team in ayoke. So the traditional way that
you'd see oxen and you drivethem from the side. And then I also
(22:13):
have found through mentors andthrough the draft animal power network,
dapnet. Using a harness with asingle ox has become one of my passions.
And I'm glad I'm not alonebecause it's super fun and I get
to, you know, bounce ideas offof the people that I know. It allows
(22:35):
me to work these very largeanimals all by myself with confidence
because I'm not trying tojuggle, you know, a 50 pound yoke
in between these massiveanimals and they're, you know, wiggling
around and there's horns andit can be hard to do that by yourself.
I'm tall, but I'm not thattall, and it's a lot to juggle. So
(23:00):
I really like to train them tobe versatile in, you know, the traditional
yolk and then to work withthem one on one. Also really helps
to build that bond with theircommands. I can really do any task,
big or small, depending if weneed to pull a really big log out,
(23:22):
then I can use both of themtogether. But if I want to do something
like in a garden or like smallrow crop, that kind of thing, I can
use a single animal and havethat effect. So it's really cool
in that way to have themaccustomed to all of that equipment.
(23:43):
The harness, I find, can be alittle bit more comfortable for the
animal. It helps distributethe weight a little bit differently
for them on their body so theycan, you know, work all day long
without becoming, you know,too exhausted. I have a team of jerseys
(24:05):
that I'm working with. They'remore of a start and sell team. I
have never worked with jerseysin, like, the draft sense. I've worked
with them in the past, like indairies and on the calf manager side.
So it's really cool to workwith like a different breed of cow.
Really tricky trying to evenfind jerseys. They're not very popular
(24:28):
around here, but I have a tinylittle calf yolk and, you know, I
got them from, from localfarms and everything and was able
to put a really nice pairtogether and halter broke them and
trained them, and they dofairly, fairly well. And now they're
a couple months old and theirhorns are starting to grow. And I'm
(24:50):
hoping, you know, in timethey'll find, like, their next step,
their next farm and teamsterto take them, take them on and show
them over the summer. Sothey're sort of like my side project
I. I've been doing. I was ableto work with a Holstein team that
I put together from theconglomerate of cabs that I just
(25:13):
see every day in my job. Everyonce in a while, we'll get, you know,
a random, like, full Holsteincalf instead of the Angus Holstein
crosses. And I just kind ofsaw these two, and they were born
within the same week. And itjust doesn't happen to have pure
Holstein bull calves born thatclose together. And they looked really
(25:37):
nice, really greatconfirmation. Stuck them together,
started training them, and Iasked my boss, hey, do you mind if
they don't go on the truck?Can I. Can I find a way to get them
out there and maybe make thema show team? And it worked. And they
went off to a really nicefamily in Vermont and they showed
(25:59):
in Maine at Freiburg Fair andthey did really well. And it was
really cool to just see, youknow, they didn't, you know, go,
go on the truck and theydidn't go off to just in the traditional
avenue that they'd go. Wasable to kind of divert them off into
a different line of work. Andjust seeing them today, like all
(26:20):
grown up and they're almost ayear old now, so it was just really
cool to see that. I've justbeen really enjoying working with
different breeds since I can'tkeep them all, but I can at least
start and then, you know, passthem off to the next teamster for
them to enjoy. But yeah, it'sjust been really cool.
Very cool. And just somethingfor me hearing this, it's just so
(26:45):
different, right? Like, I, Iam in production agriculture. We
have combines, we have all ofthose like, things. But I'm looking
out at the old garage and theyolk is out there. Like the yolk
was used here on this farm atsome point. And like to see that
you're still carrying on thesetraditions in a way of interest and
in a way of passion. It's veryneat. So. So you had mentioned, you
(27:09):
know, getting your team ofmules was a lifelong dream for you.
What are your plans for themules? You said they were a little
bit older, but what, what doyou hope to do with them?
Yes, they're old mules, new tome. They still have a lot of life
left in them. You know, I'mreally excited. The property that
they're at, they're startingto a little bit of logging, bringing
(27:31):
in, you know, just logs from awood lot that they have to the house
to. To make firewood. So wecan hitch them up to little four
cart that has like a seat onit and just drive them out there
into the woods and couplechains and some hooks and bring out
the logs over, you know,closer to the house so that they
(27:52):
can buck them up and make somefirewood that way. The options are
endless really, with them as,you know, wherever you can walk,
you can put a horse or, or theoxen. And when you have the fork
heart, it's sort of like theSwiss army knife of, you know, draft
Equipment where you can reallyhook anything onto that from there
(28:16):
on out. You can carry stuff onit. Your chainsaw, you can carry,
you know, lunch pail orwhatever. You need extra chains,
things like that. So it'sreally handy, really handy tool.
And they're bomb proof, sothey're not ones to, you know, get
scared at something and thenrun off. They're very much so adapted
(28:38):
to this kind of work. Mulesare very agile and really good with
their feet. They know exactlywhere to walk and as long as you
have confidence in them andthey listen to you, you really can
get a lot done. And they aremore heat tolerant than horses. So
even in a really hot daythey're able to sort of work through
(29:01):
that a little bit better.Mules tend to be a lot more popular
in the south, like Tennesseeand Virginia. You see mules a lot
more often down there. So uphere in the north it's kind of like
a fun thing, different thingto see mules out in the field instead
of, you know, the classicBelgian or like the black Percherons
(29:23):
are really popular around hereas well. So they're just super handy,
handy to work with.
Let's flip to the other sideof your farming now where you are
the calf manager for a verylarge dairy. So tell us about that
and how you've been able tohelp grow that farm.
(29:45):
Absolutely, yeah. It's, it'skind of funny, I'm thinking in the
moment here, I started at afarm where I had my 4H heifers. That's
where I had my first job. AndI actually still wear my Carhartt
bibs that my mom got for mefor Christmas. To this day they're
kind of falling apart now. Butsince 2010, 2010, I've been wearing
(30:10):
these bibs. But I startedthere and it was a 70 cow tie stall,
really tiny, tiny farm, milkfarm. And I was the calf manager
there. So, you know, every sooften we'd get a calf born. I think
maybe the most I've ever takencare of was like between 10 and 12
(30:32):
calves at any given time whenwe were really full. So that's really
small scale. 70 head anatizedstall. Now I'm working on a 3000
cow with a 70 head rotary andwe milk three times a day. Sometimes
I have calves waiting for meand there's about 10, upwards of
(30:55):
16 in just a 24 hour period.And it's just, it's a lot just on
a bigger scale. And the beefside, the beef market is going really
well. Prices are really good.And sometimes the conception rate
for a dairy cow is a littlebit better with using Angus to breed
(31:16):
our Holstein dairy cows with.So with the beef calves sort of being
a byproduct, it actually is areally good steady flow of income
for the farm. A bought in 2year old heifer to replace any milk
cow in the herd that we haveto part with is upwards of $3,600
(31:38):
at this time. When I firststarted here, it was about $1,500
or so for replacement heifer.So having the beef, you know, every
couple days we would get allof our beef calves picked up. So
Mondays and Thursdays arepickup days. So that's a nice, you
know, regular income therefrom the beef side. And now we've
(32:01):
decided to expand on the calfprogram by keeping heifers and intentionally
breeding to have heifer calvesto stay on site to replenish our
herd. Our barns aren't bigenough at the moment to like 100%
replenish on site. So we'retrying to do about 40 heifer calves
(32:26):
a month, which is about halfof what we would need each month
to fully replenish our herdfrom, you know, to keep our numbers
where they need to be. So it'sbeen really exciting to be the point
person to help make thesereally big decisions on, you know,
what hutches are we gonna buy,Are we going to do hutches? Are they
(32:49):
going to be, you know, in anoutside hutch environment? Are they
going to be in a barnenvironment? Are they in group housing?
Are they going to beindividual? And then it's the whole,
what milk replacer are wegoing to use? And the vaccine protocol
we had to make from scratchand then adjust and go from there
(33:13):
based on what we were seeingwith illness and things going on,
which is very individual to afarm. So it's just a lot of different
puzzle pieces, but it's allkind of coming together. And at the
moment I've got three groupsso about, you know, anywhere between
30 and 35 calves in theprogram. And I've sent two groups
(33:38):
off to their next step toanother farm that has more room to
house them between the weaningperiod and the breeding period. And
then when they're ready tocalve in, they will get brought back
to the farm here. And I get tokind of see that the full circle
come through and thenhopefully take care of their calf
(34:01):
from there.
Yeah, that's amazing. Andyou've relatively been at this farm
for a short amount of time,but it seems like there's been a
lot of positive changes thathave happened.
Oh, absolutely. Yeah, itdefinitely has been. It's been a
really humbling experience.And I really had to trust my years
(34:27):
of experience and my mentorsthat I go to and ask questions. You
know, some of these purchasesare really big purchases. Deciding
to go with individual hutchesis very expensive. Group housing
is nearly free. So to kind ofhave the knowledge to back up these
(34:49):
big decisions, it can bereally intimidating. And being a
woman in agriculture in and ofself is very intimidating. So going
up to, you know, all of mybosses or men and saying, hey, can
you drop a couple grand? Like,can you, you know, can I have you
(35:10):
order this? Like, it's, youknow, sometimes it's a lot of money.
And I explain why, you know,why I like these jackets or why I
like these hutches or I don'tlike these bottles anymore. Can we
change to these bottles inthis style nipple? Because their
nursing is different. And no,these are the results I'm seeing.
(35:32):
And they're aspirating toomuch. So I like these bottles. But
can we change this about, youknow, the nipple style and can you
order this again? And I needmore of that. And there's a lot of,
you know, sometimes on the flydecisions, but I have to really think
about, okay, what's going toimprove my program and kind of pitch
(35:55):
those ideas to then, you know,make it happen. It's really exciting.
And sometimes I'm like, oh, Idon't know if they're gonna go for
this or not. And I go and, youknow, ask a mentor or do some research.
And so I've grown a lot in,you know, learning how to communicate
my ideas and backing it upwith solid information. And then
(36:17):
it's just time and having tosort of, you know, they put a lot
of trust in me to let me sortof take this big project on. And
it's the future of their herd.So, you know, every day I have that
in the back of my mind oflike, you know, I'm, I'm in charge
of, of the future. And it'ssuper humbling, but also very rewarding.
(36:42):
And to, you know, be farmingfor nearly 12 years, like, it's kind
of like, oh, finally moment.Like, oh, finally I get, you know,
I get the results of all thoseyears of learning and trusting my
gut with decisions. And it'slike, finally, like, you just sit.
(37:02):
You're like, ah, I think Imade it now. Like, I think I made
it.
Yeah. And what a good feelingfor you as a young woman in this
industry and to make those bigdecisions and to have the knowledge
to back it up, that, to me, isa very empowering thing.
Absolutely. And also, like, onthe daily, I admit, oh, I don't really
(37:24):
know anything about that, or,oh, I would like to know more about
this. Like, who do I go findthis information from? And just doing
cold calls or reaching out topeople and just asking these questions.
Like, I feel like in otherjobs I either hadn't had the courage
(37:46):
to do that or didn't think,you know, I could do it. But now
it's just sort of like secondnature to just fully admit, like,
yep, I know nothing aboutthat, or, oh, I made a mistake. And,
like, just saying it. And it'snothing. Like, I don't internalize
that. And with farming, it'slike, you can do absolutely everything
(38:08):
right. And the animal stilldies and to, like, feel that and
to just know, like, okay,like, I guess, you know, just sometimes
it just doesn't work.
Right. And you have only asmuch control as you have. Right.
And there's the saying, if youhave livestock, you have dead stock.
Right?
(38:29):
Absolutely.
And as a city kid, that wastraumatizing for me to learn.
And trust me, I still have.There's been a couple pretty hard
losses of, you know,individual animals that, you know,
you invest a lot of time andemotional, you know, feelings towards
and you do everything you canto save them. And, you know, sometimes
(38:52):
you have to make that harddecision. And it just really, like,
sometimes it's like, oh, like,can I really do this? Like, am I
really supposed to be doingthis? I'm like, yep, because tomorrow's
tomorrow and I gotta.
And the cows need to be milkedtomorrow. Right. I want to talk about
(39:12):
the community aspect ofagriculture for you. How have you
found in your area and reallyof all the places you've traveled,
the community piece ofagriculture, what does it mean to
you?
Oh, it means everything. Ifeel like being a rural woman in
agriculture sort of puts youin this box of, like, complete isolation,
(39:37):
like, again, Amish country.It's not like I can, you know, not
like you got a lot ofneighbors and they're not going to
text you. So you kind of haveto create your own community, whether
it be virtual or you got to bewilling to drive over an hour or
more to have, you know, aphysical meetup with, like, a group
(39:59):
of people. It's like the DraftAnimal Power Network. They do some
things, like, throughout theyear, and they're a very unique group
where it really is anyone andeveryone who's interested in draft
power, whether it be withhorses, mules, oxen, and things like
that. So I have, like, abranch of, like, those kinds of friends
(40:24):
and mentors that had helped meget to where I am with my experience
and passion with the draftpower. And then kind of through the
4H and showing cows, we have asmall herd of show cows here, and
we do the local fairs andshows. So we have kind of like the
(40:46):
show side and that family andfriends and group of people that
we get to see, you know,during that time of year, and we
can network and catch up. Andthat is also linked with 4H, so the
local 4H kids and groups alsoshow. So it's been really cool to,
(41:07):
you know, now being an adult,having my own animals and showing
and getting to see all of theother kids there watching me, you
know, show these giant milkcows. My, you know, my arms are all
the way up in the air andgiant cow and massive udder. And,
you know, this past year, wedid really well. We got a lot of
(41:31):
really great, you know, prizesand titles and things like that.
It's just so rewarding tohave, you know, families or kids
come up and just tell you,like, hey, I really liked watching
you out there. Like, good job.And it's just, you don't really expect
that because you're just, youknow, just out there and you're so
(41:52):
focused on working with youranimal that you don't really fully
see, like, who is out therewatching me right now. Like, you
know, it's. It's kind of a bigresponsibility, but it's also, like,
a huge honor. And I don't. Idefinitely don't take it lightly.
Some really cool moments tokind of see, like, I was that girl
(42:13):
once looking up to, you know,the adults who I thought, you know,
oh, they're so old, and nowI'm the old one, and they're coming
up to me and they're like, oh,nice job. You know, or just compliments,
like, I want to be like youone day. You know, those kinds of
things. Like, it just really.That's what it's all about. And connection
(42:36):
with animals is just superimportant. And getting to mentor.
I have one of the. One of anolder, like, 4H student doing a project
with the rabbits, and I have arabbit tree. And, you know, not a
lot of people can have animalsat their home. And she comes and
(42:56):
she did a breeding project forher SAE and won some grant money
because she did such a goodjob with her presentation. And we
decided on which rabbits shewanted to breed, and they had the
babies. And she's doing allthe work behind learning genetics
and the whole, you know,breeding side of. Of that project
(43:17):
and getting to help facilitatethat and. And take care of the animals
with her so she can have thatexperience is really awesome because
I was that kid wanting, youknow, the cow in my backyard and
couldn't, you know, have a cowat my house. So now I do have, you
(43:38):
know, the goats and thechickens and the rabbits and the
herd of cats and everythingthat I could imagine here. And I
just want to share with everybody.
Yeah, well, and what a fullcircle moment for you, right? To
be that person that these kidscan learn from. And, you know, you
(44:01):
needed that person when youwere younger, and now you are that
person for the young folks. Sothat's. That's amazing. And you should
be very, very proud ofyourself for that.
Yeah, I'm very surprised I didnot cry through the whole thing.
Hard not to get superemotional or misty.
The feel good, misty moments.Absolutely. So, Madeline, what is
(44:25):
next for you? What are somefuture goals for you and your homestead
and your job and all of the things?
Definitely just focusing onspending more time, you know, with
training, you know, workingwith the mules, working the oxen,
but also expanding the calfprogram, learning how I want everything
(44:45):
to be organized, doing thatwhole, whole side of it, more of
the professional side, andbuilding a little bit more of community
with, you know, the 4H kidsand some of the local women in my
area trying to get us out alittle bit, even though it's on a
(45:06):
virtual basis. But I startedthis little page called Maintaining
the level of Dirt. And it'sall about, you know, you can't really
have, like, your housecompletely clean. Your barn's never
completely clean. You know,let's get rid of that expectation
of having to have everythingperfect and neat because it just.
(45:28):
It's unrealistic. So let'sfocus on, like, maintaining. How
do we just, like, maintain,you know, this level of, you know,
sanity and being in the momentand connecting with. With other women
who, you know, can feel reallyisolated and we don't live close
together, but we're allgenerally doing very similar things
(45:51):
like caring for animals orwe're on a homestead or dairy farm.
Some of these women have kidsand, you know, getting a babysitter
and going out and, you know,it's just. It becomes a little bit
unrealistic. Maybe you justdon't have enough energy to do that.
So this page sort of like,pulls everybody together. You can
(46:14):
come and go as you please. Wedid a couple, like, virtual chat
meetups, which was really funto kind of see everybody's face.
So maybe one day we'll get itto the point where we'll have actual
in person meetups or like apotluck every once in a while to
just, you know, have. Have agroup of people to lean on when we're
(46:37):
so far apart from each other.But we have just such a common connection
with, you know, working withanimals or farming that it doesn't
have to feel so isolating andyou don't have to actually leave
your home. It's really hard tofind farm sitters, so.
Right.
I wanted to kind of create anopportunity where we can have our
(46:59):
cake and eat it too, in a way.
Absolutely. I love that andreally like building any connection,
whether it's in person oronline. Like, we live isolated lives
in more ways than one. And tobe able to find women who are passionate
about the same life that youhave, and, you know, we can farm
(47:19):
completely different from oneanother and we still come together
as rural women. And reallyit's a testament to all of us because
we're pretty strong women andyou are included in that club. So,
Madeline, my last question foryou is, what's the most rewarding
part about being a rural womanfor you?
(47:41):
I think the most rewardingpart for me is to wake up and not
feel like I have to go towork. That dreaded, like, you know,
your alarm goes off and you'relike, oh, I got to go to work. It's
like I get to wake up and it.I don't have any of those feelings
because what I do for work iswhat I do in my free time. And farming
(48:07):
is my passion. And to have theprivilege to be able to do what I
love for a living and havethat be basically my backyard is
something I've worked reallyhard for and really lucky to have
at this point in time. So Ithink that's the most rewarding part
(48:29):
is to just do what I love andhave it be my living and it's my
passion. So it's really exciting.
All good things for the folkswho would like to connect with you
online. Where can they find you?
So I'm really only onFacebook. I'm not super into Instagram,
(48:51):
not really even sure how itworks, but I do have a page called
Hedgerow Homestead, and that'swhere I've been posting and building
a community through that pageto follow. Not only what I do on
the dairy, but a little bit oflike the homestead and other things
that I do day to day. It'sjust all on that page on Facebook.
(49:15):
I also have my personalFacebook page too that's just under
my name, but it's very similarto my kind of homestead page, so
and I will link.
Those in the show notes sopeople can find you and connect with
you.
Awesome.
Thank you. Madeline, thank youso much for sharing your story with
us today. I really appreciate it.
Thank you so much for having me.
(49:41):
Thanks for listening to theRural Woman Podcast. The Rural Woman
Podcast is more than just apodcast. We are a community. A huge
thank you to the Rural WomanPodcast team. Audio Editor Max Hofer
A special thanks to ourPatreon Executive producers Sarah
Riedner from Happiness by theAcre and Carrie Munvin from Laystone
(50:04):
Farms. To learn how you canbecome a Patreon Executive Producer
or other ways to financiallysupport the show, head on over to
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(50:25):
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You can connect with us onsocial media at the Rural Woman Podcast
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(50:47):
share on your social medialet's strengthen and amplify the
voices of women in agriculturetogether. Until next time, my friend.
Keep sharing your story.
Hi, I'm Katelyn Duban and thisis the Rural Woman Podcast. I'm a
first generation farmer whomarried into agriculture. Born and
raised in a city, I was sounfamiliar with where my food came
from, but I was determined tofigure it out. Through my journey
into agriculture, I saw womenwho were strong but humble, often
(01:04):
taking a back seat. To me,these women were leaders who deserved
a seat at the table. I createdthe Rural Women Podcast to share
the voices of women in anindustry whose stories often went
untold. The ruralentrepreneurs who live and breathe
their work full of grit andpride. We come here to share our
(01:27):
stories, to be in communitywith each other, to be challenged
and inspired, but mostimportantly, family. To be celebrated
and to be heard. We may notall live farm, ranch or homestead
the same, but we are allconnected. We are rural women and
(01:47):
our stories are worthy ofbeing told. Hey everyone. Welcome
back to another episode of theRural Women Podcast. Today you'll
meet Madeline Pernitis.Madeline is a first generation farmer
from Connecticut with apassion for animals.
(02:07):
Sparked by childhood visits toher aunt's.
Farm, she earned a degree inlivestock and draft power, gaining
experience with draft horsesand oxen. Now in upstate New York,
Madeline manages a calfprogram on a dairy farm, runs her
homestead, and has realizedher dream of owning a team of draft
mules. I cannot wait for youto meet Madeline. She is as sweet
(02:31):
as can be and has a greatstory to share. Without further ado,
my friends, let's get to thisweek's episode with Madeline.
Madeline, welcome to the RuralWoman Podcast.
How are you today?
I'm great. How are you?
I'm doing so well. I am soexcited to dive into the multi layers
(02:58):
of the multi passionateMadeline that you are in agriculture.
So before I fangirl too muchfor the folks who are unfamiliar
with you, can you tell us whoyou are, where you're from and how
you got your start in agriculture?
Yeah, absolutely. I'm beyondexcited. I've been a long time listener.
So my name is MadelinePernitis. I am from a really small
(03:22):
town in Connecticut on theFarmington River. I'm not from a
farm family. I actually got alot of my inspiration from my aunt
who is no longer with us, butshe had a horse boarding business
that is still run today andshe was such an influence on me with
her love for animals. So Idefinitely got that from her and
(03:46):
continued that on in myinterest growing up. Horseback riding.
I did farm camp over thesummer. We got to, you know, collect
the eggs and things like that.And it Just developed my interest
into continuing on withagriculture in my later years through
4H and right into college as well.
(04:08):
Very cool. I love theinspiration that can come from family
members and their loves andtheir hobbies and myself not growing
up on a farm and in a farmfamily. I did have cousins who had
horses, and I always thought,like, I would just love to have a
horse. And my parents gave methe option, like, you could have
a horse or you could have afour wheeler and we could go camping
(04:31):
on the weekends. So that'swhat. That's the route that I took,
but eventually ended up on afarm. But tell us about your 4H journey.
What did you do in 4H?
So I gravitated towardsraising a heifer through the dairy
club. So my town wasdefinitely not a farming community.
(04:55):
It once was just really smalldairies, but it was more geared towards,
like, lacrosse and football,that sort of atmosphere. And I was
just really a farm kid atheart. And I remember going up to
my mom because one of my bestfriends was in 4h in the next town
over. And I used to see herevery week at church when we go to
(05:20):
Sunday school. And she'd tellme all about, you know, what she
was working on with herchickens and rabbits and things.
And she's like, you shouldjoin. I'm like, okay, I'll go ask
my mom. And they had a dairycattle group and they would show
over the summer at a littlecounty fair. And so I went and asked
(05:40):
my mom. I'm like, mom, can Iget a cow? She's like, madeline,
we live in a suburb. Where doyou think we're going to have. She
was completely confused. And Ithought it was a great idea. I didn't
think anything of it. And I'mlike, well, you just paid $20 and
you can have one. Like, it'sthat simple, Mom. Like, we can totally
do this. And after finding outa little bit more information, of
(06:03):
course, you know, the animalstays active. The local farm in a
really small town calledGranby, Connecticut, it's a little
bit more of, like a ruralsetting compared to, you know, where
I grew up. In a. In a suburb,you can go as often as you wish,
and you work with your animal.And when the fair comes around, you
enter into your age groupclass, you wear all white, which
(06:27):
to this day is. I just alwaysfeel super impractical when you're
working with animals to haveto just wear all white. But it. It
just really solidified mypassion for animals. And working
with animals every single day,it was something I looked forward
to after school. Ended updeveloping into a degree in college,
(06:49):
and that turned into a career.
All from that $20 cow thatyour mom just was so confused by.
I love that. And, you know,growing up, we have 4H here, and
it was something that I didn'teven know was an option. Weren't
a farm kid. And to hear somany incredible stories of people
(07:09):
who have found their way to 4Hsome way, somehow, and have them
connect not only with animals,but to other kids, and just to have
those skills as a kid and allof the different people that you
meet, I think those arelifelong lessons that you learn.
Oh, absolutely. It. It reallyfollowed me through everything that
(07:30):
I have done since, especiallywith, you know, public speaking or,
you know, doing class projectsor group projects or just working,
you know, in my job, learninghow to. How to network and reach
out to those who know a littlebit more than I do in the area that,
you know, I have questions in.And it's just developed this, like,
(07:53):
great community, all just kindof working together.
Yeah, for sure. So tell usabout your schooling and your college.
What did you take, where didyou go, and what have you done with
it?
So in high school, I had a lotof concussions, so I wasn't able
to travel as much as I wouldlike to go visit colleges. So I did
(08:14):
take a post grad year inbetween high school and college,
and the program offered someclasses at the high school level
and then also a few on thecollege level. And then we did this
project. So basically, wecould pick any project that we wanted
to do that was some sort ofeducational aspect. You had to write
(08:35):
up a proposal and propose youridea. And I wanted to bring a chicken
coop to campus. And mind you,where this campus is located is in
East Hartford, in Hartford,Connecticut. It's a city. So eventually,
after multiple revisions ofthis proposal, I had to jump through
(08:58):
a lot of extra hoops, and Idefinitely ruffled some feathers
on that campus, no punintended. But I really was really
on this project, and I wantedto give my fellow students an opportunity
to sort of be around animalslike how I did with 4H. Without that
(09:18):
kind of exposure, I wouldn'thave really known what it was about,
and then I wouldn't have knownhow much I wanted to pursue it. So
I got four chickens from theplace that I used to go to farm camp
from, and I used my proposalmoney to buy a little chicken coop
and brought them there. And Idid a presentation in front of my
(09:40):
whole entire school, holdingone of My chickens in front of all
these people explaining myproject and how passionate I am about
agriculture and what I've beendoing in 4H and just kind of like
share with everybody who mayhave never even seen a chicken in
person. And it just reallysparked that passion from there on
(10:02):
out. Ended up pursuing adegree in livestock and I got my
Bachelor's of Animal scienceat SUNY Coble School in New York
State. And it's a four yearprogram. I did about three years
on campus and in between thereI had various farm jobs, whether
it be on a dairy farm or not,just working with animals in between
(10:26):
semesters. And then Itransferred to a very, very tiny
work college in Vermont and itwas kind of half ecology majors and
the other half was some sortof agricultural base degrees. And
there that's where I reallykind of solidified my degree in livestock
(10:49):
sustainable agriculture. Andthen I added a really big piece of
draft power that sort ofblended all of what I've learned
into one degree.
And since college you haveessentially became a gypsy farmer,
as you like to call yourselfthat. So talk to us about, you know,
(11:11):
the different experiencesyou've had since those college years
and the different farms you'veworked on since then.
Yeah, absolutely. So I like tocall myself a gypsy farmer back then
because I really was alwaysmoving, not because I didn't like
what I was doing. I was justlike, just seeking every opportunity
(11:31):
to learn something new or workwith a different kind of animal or
in a different animal basedindustry. And it led me all over
the place. I, I moved wellover 10 times, maybe even more, either
with the seasons or as myinterests changed. So I dabbled a
little bit in Virginia rightafter I graduated in 2018 and I worked
(11:57):
a little bit on the vegetableside and kind of found that I'm not
so much like a plant kind ofgal. So that ended up having me move
a little bit over and havingsome experience in the polo industry
and growing up riding horses,I was really excited about it. It
(12:17):
was really fun, verydifferent, very like glamorous and
clean and fast paced. Completeopposite of what I was doing before,
you know, like, you know,weeding the gardens and going to
markets and really gettingvery dirty. So I went and did a little
bit in polo and moved a fewmore times here and there, working
(12:40):
on other farms, interviewingplaces, trying to figure out where
I wanted to go. I've worked athumane societies. I was a vet tech
for a short time. Just kind ofbrought me all over the place. Now
I'm living in Northern NewYork state on the Canadian line.
(13:00):
So very, very far north, rightin the middle of Amish country.
That's so cool. And I lovethat you went out to seek these different
opportunities. You know, I wasrecently having this conversation
with a friend of mine and wewere talking about generationally
(13:21):
where, you know, of thegeneration, they were told that they
had to find one job and theystayed with that job for their entire
lives. And that generationraised me. And so I very much had
that feeling that I needed tofind a career and it needed to be
like the one thing that I did.And you know, since kind of growing
(13:44):
from that and now doing what Ido, which is completely different
than what I ever thought Iwould be doing. To hear that you
took those opportunities tojust do a bunch of different things
to see what you liked doing. Ihave a lot of respect for that.
Thank you. Yeah, a big, A bigpiece and a big chunk of time I was
(14:05):
in Vermont when, you know,post Virginia, post Rhode island,
post livestock manager kind ofstuff. I really enjoyed my time on
a all pastured meat and eggfarm in Vermont, in Richmond, Vermont,
called Maplewind Farm. Andthat's where I got all of my butchering
(14:28):
experience. We had a flock oflike 1800 laying hens. We had pigs
on pasture, beef on pasture,and we did meet birds. And during
my time there, I was there forabout three years. We scaled up to
about a thousand birds in abatch that we'd process on site.
And it's a small USDA plant,so we are inspected. So I got to
(14:54):
really dive deep in all of thelogistics of what it takes to be
a USDA certified inspectedfacility, which there really wasn't
one around there. In my lastyear, I got to co manage the facility,
which was really cool, butbeing a part of every aspect of chores.
Collecting, washing andpacking eggs, you know, feeding the
(15:17):
birds and moving them on freshpasture every morning. And then after
the eight weeks, we'd collectthem all up and bring them up to
the main farm and we'd processall of them and eventually we'd package
all of them and label them.And you know, I get to see the people,
you know, in person who comeevery day or every week to come and
(15:38):
buy the products that we justspent, you know, all that time and
energy creating. Definitelyone of my favorite jobs I've ever
had was, was working there.
You have mentioned about draftanimals. I want to know more about
(16:42):
this. I am really racking mybrain to remember if I have spoken
to any women who a are asPassionate about draft animals as
you are, but b, have reallybeen immersed in the culture where
draft animals are still a mainsource of labor. So talk to us about,
(17:05):
you know, you said back incollege learning about draft animals,
that being a big part of youreducation. Where did that love come
from for you?
I'm not sure. I think, youknow, when you're a kid and you go
to a farm and you know,there's a couple draft horses there,
you get to pet them andthey're just so big. Like as a kid,
I don't think really there'smany animals besides a cow that are
(17:27):
really that big and thatgentle and they just move so slow.
And I think just from a youngage I was always really drawn by
their presence and be aroundthem. Now, I mean, to me it's very
normal to drive down the roadand have to wait behind a buggy that
someone's, you know, drivingon a regular basis every day. I'm
(17:50):
always, you know, beingmindful of there's a whole other
community that live amongstus. And I just find how they live
and how they work sofascinating. And it often kind of
makes me slow down and justreally like pay just a little bit
more attention to thingsaround me and in my work and be very
(18:14):
grateful for like, thebeautiful scenery and their farms
are amazing to look at. Andyou know, yesterday I even, you know,
just driving, doing regularerrands, there was someone working
out in the field and they hadfour Belgians together and they're
plowing and to me, you know,like, I just think that's the coolest
(18:39):
thing and it's almost like adaily thing that I get to see. So
when I mention it to my familyor friends and it's not normal for
them, but for me it is. And Ithink it's really great that I get
to live and be surrounded thatbecause I'm trying to make that a
part of my everyday as well.Living and working, you know, on
(19:03):
a conventional farm, a 3,000cow dairy, where everything is fairly
high tech and calculated. Werely on a lot of, you know, heavy
machinery and feed carts andthings like that. And right next
door it's Amish farms. So it'slike really cool to. To have both
and to have my mule team wasreally cool, happening. I'm almost
(19:30):
gonna be 30, so that's reallyscary. And I just kind of had like
this moment of, you know.Yeah, you know, one day in my life
I'll have a team of giraffesor I'll have a Team of mules. And
that was like the one big likelife goal. A few days later their
ad came up and it was, it justkind of meant, was meant to be. And
(19:53):
I didn't hesitate on it andwent to go see them and check them
out. And within the next monththey were at our friend's farm, which
is actually, they converted anAmish farm back to more, you know,
regular water power setup. Sothe mules are, you know, they used
(20:14):
to be an Amish team and nowthey're back, you know, on an Amish
farm and I get to enjoy themkind of in their retirement. They're
older, definitely slowed downand more at my level. I'm still learning
too, but to get to learn froman experienced team and a team of
mules was a huge life goal forme that I can now say that has happened.
(20:39):
And I also have oxen, which isreally different. They've got giant
horns and they're really big.So to have them, you know, on the
same property that I work onand get to see and interact with
them every day is a hugeprivilege and just really lucky to.
To have that.
(21:00):
Yeah. And that's very cool.And like you mentioned, you work
on a very regulated and largescale dairy operation. Right. That
is most likely the completeopposite of an Amish farm. Right.
So your day to day is sodifferent and it'll vary and it's
so vast. So let's dig in rightnow to, to your draft animals and
(21:25):
to what you're doing on yourhomestead and where you hope to go
with that. And then we'll flipto the, the other side of the technology
and all of the things that youget to do in your day to day life
at work.
Yeah. So the oxen right nowI'm still actively training. I have
a team of brown Swiss that areabout two years old. Those are the
(21:48):
guys that got the giant hornsand they're well over a thousand
pounds at this point. Andthey're in training still, but they
can pull small loads andthings like that. I do have them
trained to work as a team in ayoke. So the traditional way that
you'd see oxen and you drivethem from the side. And then I also
(22:13):
have found through mentors andthrough the draft animal power network,
dapnet. Using a harness with asingle ox has become one of my passions.
And I'm glad I'm not alonebecause it's super fun and I get
to, you know, bounce ideas offof the people that I know. It allows
(22:35):
me to work these very largeanimals all by myself with confidence
because I'm not trying tojuggle, you know, a 50 pound yoke
in between these massiveanimals and they're, you know, wiggling
around and there's horns andit can be hard to do that by yourself.
I'm tall, but I'm not thattall, and it's a lot to juggle. So
(23:00):
I really like to train them tobe versatile in, you know, the traditional
yolk and then to work withthem one on one. Also really helps
to build that bond with theircommands. I can really do any task,
big or small, depending if weneed to pull a really big log out,
(23:22):
then I can use both of themtogether. But if I want to do something
like in a garden or like smallrow crop, that kind of thing, I can
use a single animal and havethat effect. So it's really cool
in that way to have themaccustomed to all of that equipment.
(23:43):
The harness, I find, can be alittle bit more comfortable for the
animal. It helps distributethe weight a little bit differently
for them on their body so theycan, you know, work all day long
without becoming, you know,too exhausted. I have a team of jerseys
(24:05):
that I'm working with. They'remore of a start and sell team. I
have never worked with jerseysin, like, the draft sense. I've worked
with them in the past, like indairies and on the calf manager side.
So it's really cool to workwith like a different breed of cow.
Really tricky trying to evenfind jerseys. They're not very popular
(24:28):
around here, but I have a tinylittle calf yolk and, you know, I
got them from, from localfarms and everything and was able
to put a really nice pairtogether and halter broke them and
trained them, and they dofairly, fairly well. And now they're
a couple months old and theirhorns are starting to grow. And I'm
(24:50):
hoping, you know, in timethey'll find, like, their next step,
their next farm and teamsterto take them, take them on and show
them over the summer. Sothey're sort of like my side project
I. I've been doing. I was ableto work with a Holstein team that
I put together from theconglomerate of cabs that I just
(25:13):
see every day in my job. Everyonce in a while, we'll get, you know,
a random, like, full Holsteincalf instead of the Angus Holstein
crosses. And I just kind ofsaw these two, and they were born
within the same week. And itjust doesn't happen to have pure
Holstein bull calves born thatclose together. And they looked really
(25:37):
nice, really greatconfirmation. Stuck them together,
started training them, and Iasked my boss, hey, do you mind if
they don't go on the truck?Can I. Can I find a way to get them
out there and maybe make thema show team? And it worked. And they
went off to a really nicefamily in Vermont and they showed
(25:59):
in Maine at Freiburg Fair andthey did really well. And it was
really cool to just see, youknow, they didn't, you know, go,
go on the truck and theydidn't go off to just in the traditional
avenue that they'd go. Wasable to kind of divert them off into
a different line of work. Andjust seeing them today, like all
(26:20):
grown up and they're almost ayear old now, so it was just really
cool to see that. I've justbeen really enjoying working with
different breeds since I can'tkeep them all, but I can at least
start and then, you know, passthem off to the next teamster for
them to enjoy. But yeah, it'sjust been really cool.
Very cool. And just somethingfor me hearing this, it's just so
(26:45):
different, right? Like, I, Iam in production agriculture. We
have combines, we have all ofthose like, things. But I'm looking
out at the old garage and theyolk is out there. Like the yolk
was used here on this farm atsome point. And like to see that
you're still carrying on thesetraditions in a way of interest and
in a way of passion. It's veryneat. So. So you had mentioned, you
(27:09):
know, getting your team ofmules was a lifelong dream for you.
What are your plans for themules? You said they were a little
bit older, but what, what doyou hope to do with them?
Yes, they're old mules, new tome. They still have a lot of life
left in them. You know, I'mreally excited. The property that
they're at, they're startingto a little bit of logging, bringing
(27:31):
in, you know, just logs from awood lot that they have to the house
to. To make firewood. So wecan hitch them up to little four
cart that has like a seat onit and just drive them out there
into the woods and couplechains and some hooks and bring out
the logs over, you know,closer to the house so that they
(27:52):
can buck them up and make somefirewood that way. The options are
endless really, with them as,you know, wherever you can walk,
you can put a horse or, or theoxen. And when you have the fork
heart, it's sort of like theSwiss army knife of, you know, draft
Equipment where you can reallyhook anything onto that from there
(28:16):
on out. You can carry stuff onit. Your chainsaw, you can carry,
you know, lunch pail orwhatever. You need extra chains,
things like that. So it'sreally handy, really handy tool.
And they're bomb proof, sothey're not ones to, you know, get
scared at something and thenrun off. They're very much so adapted
(28:38):
to this kind of work. Mulesare very agile and really good with
their feet. They know exactlywhere to walk and as long as you
have confidence in them andthey listen to you, you really can
get a lot done. And they aremore heat tolerant than horses. So
even in a really hot daythey're able to sort of work through
(29:01):
that a little bit better.Mules tend to be a lot more popular
in the south, like Tennesseeand Virginia. You see mules a lot
more often down there. So uphere in the north it's kind of like
a fun thing, different thingto see mules out in the field instead
of, you know, the classicBelgian or like the black Percherons
(29:23):
are really popular around hereas well. So they're just super handy,
handy to work with.
Let's flip to the other sideof your farming now where you are
the calf manager for a verylarge dairy. So tell us about that
and how you've been able tohelp grow that farm.
(29:45):
Absolutely, yeah. It's, it'skind of funny, I'm thinking in the
moment here, I started at afarm where I had my 4H heifers. That's
where I had my first job. AndI actually still wear my Carhartt
bibs that my mom got for mefor Christmas. To this day they're
kind of falling apart now. Butsince 2010, 2010, I've been wearing
(30:10):
these bibs. But I startedthere and it was a 70 cow tie stall,
really tiny, tiny farm, milkfarm. And I was the calf manager
there. So, you know, every sooften we'd get a calf born. I think
maybe the most I've ever takencare of was like between 10 and 12
(30:32):
calves at any given time whenwe were really full. So that's really
small scale. 70 head anatizedstall. Now I'm working on a 3000
cow with a 70 head rotary andwe milk three times a day. Sometimes
I have calves waiting for meand there's about 10, upwards of
(30:55):
16 in just a 24 hour period.And it's just, it's a lot just on
a bigger scale. And the beefside, the beef market is going really
well. Prices are really good.And sometimes the conception rate
for a dairy cow is a littlebit better with using Angus to breed
(31:16):
our Holstein dairy cows with.So with the beef calves sort of being
a byproduct, it actually is areally good steady flow of income
for the farm. A bought in 2year old heifer to replace any milk
cow in the herd that we haveto part with is upwards of $3,600
(31:38):
at this time. When I firststarted here, it was about $1,500
or so for replacement heifer.So having the beef, you know, every
couple days we would get allof our beef calves picked up. So
Mondays and Thursdays arepickup days. So that's a nice, you
know, regular income therefrom the beef side. And now we've
(32:01):
decided to expand on the calfprogram by keeping heifers and intentionally
breeding to have heifer calvesto stay on site to replenish our
herd. Our barns aren't bigenough at the moment to like 100%
replenish on site. So we'retrying to do about 40 heifer calves
(32:26):
a month, which is about halfof what we would need each month
to fully replenish our herdfrom, you know, to keep our numbers
where they need to be. So it'sbeen really exciting to be the point
person to help make thesereally big decisions on, you know,
what hutches are we gonna buy,Are we going to do hutches? Are they
(32:49):
going to be, you know, in anoutside hutch environment? Are they
going to be in a barnenvironment? Are they in group housing?
Are they going to beindividual? And then it's the whole,
what milk replacer are wegoing to use? And the vaccine protocol
we had to make from scratchand then adjust and go from there
(33:13):
based on what we were seeingwith illness and things going on,
which is very individual to afarm. So it's just a lot of different
puzzle pieces, but it's allkind of coming together. And at the
moment I've got three groupsso about, you know, anywhere between
30 and 35 calves in theprogram. And I've sent two groups
(33:38):
off to their next step toanother farm that has more room to
house them between the weaningperiod and the breeding period. And
then when they're ready tocalve in, they will get brought back
to the farm here. And I get tokind of see that the full circle
come through and thenhopefully take care of their calf
(34:01):
from there.
Yeah, that's amazing. Andyou've relatively been at this farm
for a short amount of time,but it seems like there's been a
lot of positive changes thathave happened.
Oh, absolutely. Yeah, itdefinitely has been. It's been a
really humbling experience.And I really had to trust my years
(34:27):
of experience and my mentorsthat I go to and ask questions. You
know, some of these purchasesare really big purchases. Deciding
to go with individual hutchesis very expensive. Group housing
is nearly free. So to kind ofhave the knowledge to back up these
(34:49):
big decisions, it can bereally intimidating. And being a
woman in agriculture in and ofself is very intimidating. So going
up to, you know, all of mybosses or men and saying, hey, can
you drop a couple grand? Like,can you, you know, can I have you
(35:10):
order this? Like, it's, youknow, sometimes it's a lot of money.
And I explain why, you know,why I like these jackets or why I
like these hutches or I don'tlike these bottles anymore. Can we
change to these bottles inthis style nipple? Because their
nursing is different. And no,these are the results I'm seeing.
(35:32):
And they're aspirating toomuch. So I like these bottles. But
can we change this about, youknow, the nipple style and can you
order this again? And I needmore of that. And there's a lot of,
you know, sometimes on the flydecisions, but I have to really think
about, okay, what's going toimprove my program and kind of pitch
(35:55):
those ideas to then, you know,make it happen. It's really exciting.
And sometimes I'm like, oh, Idon't know if they're gonna go for
this or not. And I go and, youknow, ask a mentor or do some research.
And so I've grown a lot in,you know, learning how to communicate
my ideas and backing it upwith solid information. And then
(36:17):
it's just time and having tosort of, you know, they put a lot
of trust in me to let me sortof take this big project on. And
it's the future of their herd.So, you know, every day I have that
in the back of my mind oflike, you know, I'm, I'm in charge
of, of the future. And it'ssuper humbling, but also very rewarding.
(36:42):
And to, you know, be farmingfor nearly 12 years, like, it's kind
of like, oh, finally moment.Like, oh, finally I get, you know,
I get the results of all thoseyears of learning and trusting my
gut with decisions. And it'slike, finally, like, you just sit.
(37:02):
You're like, ah, I think Imade it now. Like, I think I made
it.
Yeah. And what a good feelingfor you as a young woman in this
industry and to make those bigdecisions and to have the knowledge
to back it up, that, to me, isa very empowering thing.
Absolutely. And also, like, onthe daily, I admit, oh, I don't really
(37:24):
know anything about that, or,oh, I would like to know more about
this. Like, who do I go findthis information from? And just doing
cold calls or reaching out topeople and just asking these questions.
Like, I feel like in otherjobs I either hadn't had the courage
(37:46):
to do that or didn't think,you know, I could do it. But now
it's just sort of like secondnature to just fully admit, like,
yep, I know nothing aboutthat, or, oh, I made a mistake. And,
like, just saying it. And it'snothing. Like, I don't internalize
that. And with farming, it'slike, you can do absolutely everything
(38:08):
right. And the animal stilldies and to, like, feel that and
to just know, like, okay,like, I guess, you know, just sometimes
it just doesn't work.
Right. And you have only asmuch control as you have. Right.
And there's the saying, if youhave livestock, you have dead stock.
Right?
(38:29):
Absolutely.
And as a city kid, that wastraumatizing for me to learn.
And trust me, I still have.There's been a couple pretty hard
losses of, you know,individual animals that, you know,
you invest a lot of time andemotional, you know, feelings towards
and you do everything you canto save them. And, you know, sometimes
(38:52):
you have to make that harddecision. And it just really, like,
sometimes it's like, oh, like,can I really do this? Like, am I
really supposed to be doingthis? I'm like, yep, because tomorrow's
tomorrow and I gotta.
And the cows need to be milkedtomorrow. Right. I want to talk about
(39:12):
the community aspect ofagriculture for you. How have you
found in your area and reallyof all the places you've traveled,
the community piece ofagriculture, what does it mean to
you?
Oh, it means everything. Ifeel like being a rural woman in
agriculture sort of puts youin this box of, like, complete isolation,
(39:37):
like, again, Amish country.It's not like I can, you know, not
like you got a lot ofneighbors and they're not going to
text you. So you kind of haveto create your own community, whether
it be virtual or you got to bewilling to drive over an hour or
more to have, you know, aphysical meetup with, like, a group
(39:59):
of people. It's like the DraftAnimal Power Network. They do some
things, like, throughout theyear, and they're a very unique group
where it really is anyone andeveryone who's interested in draft
power, whether it be withhorses, mules, oxen, and things like
that. So I have, like, abranch of, like, those kinds of friends
(40:24):
and mentors that had helped meget to where I am with my experience
and passion with the draftpower. And then kind of through the
4H and showing cows, we have asmall herd of show cows here, and
we do the local fairs andshows. So we have kind of like the
(40:46):
show side and that family andfriends and group of people that
we get to see, you know,during that time of year, and we
can network and catch up. Andthat is also linked with 4H, so the
local 4H kids and groups alsoshow. So it's been really cool to,
(41:07):
you know, now being an adult,having my own animals and showing
and getting to see all of theother kids there watching me, you
know, show these giant milkcows. My, you know, my arms are all
the way up in the air andgiant cow and massive udder. And,
you know, this past year, wedid really well. We got a lot of
(41:31):
really great, you know, prizesand titles and things like that.
It's just so rewarding tohave, you know, families or kids
come up and just tell you,like, hey, I really liked watching
you out there. Like, good job.And it's just, you don't really expect
that because you're just, youknow, just out there and you're so
(41:52):
focused on working with youranimal that you don't really fully
see, like, who is out therewatching me right now. Like, you
know, it's. It's kind of a bigresponsibility, but it's also, like,
a huge honor. And I don't. Idefinitely don't take it lightly.
Some really cool moments tokind of see, like, I was that girl
(42:13):
once looking up to, you know,the adults who I thought, you know,
oh, they're so old, and nowI'm the old one, and they're coming
up to me and they're like, oh,nice job. You know, or just compliments,
like, I want to be like youone day. You know, those kinds of
things. Like, it just really.That's what it's all about. And connection
(42:36):
with animals is just superimportant. And getting to mentor.
I have one of the. One of anolder, like, 4H student doing a project
with the rabbits, and I have arabbit tree. And, you know, not a
lot of people can have animalsat their home. And she comes and
(42:56):
she did a breeding project forher SAE and won some grant money
because she did such a goodjob with her presentation. And we
decided on which rabbits shewanted to breed, and they had the
babies. And she's doing allthe work behind learning genetics
and the whole, you know,breeding side of. Of that project
(43:17):
and getting to help facilitatethat and. And take care of the animals
with her so she can have thatexperience is really awesome because
I was that kid wanting, youknow, the cow in my backyard and
couldn't, you know, have a cowat my house. So now I do have, you
(43:38):
know, the goats and thechickens and the rabbits and the
herd of cats and everythingthat I could imagine here. And I
just want to share with everybody.
Yeah, well, and what a fullcircle moment for you, right? To
be that person that these kidscan learn from. And, you know, you
(44:01):
needed that person when youwere younger, and now you are that
person for the young folks. Sothat's. That's amazing. And you should
be very, very proud ofyourself for that.
Yeah, I'm very surprised I didnot cry through the whole thing.
Hard not to get superemotional or misty.
The feel good, misty moments.Absolutely. So, Madeline, what is
(44:25):
next for you? What are somefuture goals for you and your homestead
and your job and all of the things?
Definitely just focusing onspending more time, you know, with
training, you know, workingwith the mules, working the oxen,
but also expanding the calfprogram, learning how I want everything
(44:45):
to be organized, doing thatwhole, whole side of it, more of
the professional side, andbuilding a little bit more of community
with, you know, the 4H kidsand some of the local women in my
area trying to get us out alittle bit, even though it's on a
(45:06):
virtual basis. But I startedthis little page called Maintaining
the level of Dirt. And it'sall about, you know, you can't really
have, like, your housecompletely clean. Your barn's never
completely clean. You know,let's get rid of that expectation
of having to have everythingperfect and neat because it just.
(45:28):
It's unrealistic. So let'sfocus on, like, maintaining. How
do we just, like, maintain,you know, this level of, you know,
sanity and being in the momentand connecting with. With other women
who, you know, can feel reallyisolated and we don't live close
together, but we're allgenerally doing very similar things
(45:51):
like caring for animals orwe're on a homestead or dairy farm.
Some of these women have kidsand, you know, getting a babysitter
and going out and, you know,it's just. It becomes a little bit
unrealistic. Maybe you justdon't have enough energy to do that.
So this page sort of like,pulls everybody together. You can
(46:14):
come and go as you please. Wedid a couple, like, virtual chat
meetups, which was really funto kind of see everybody's face.
So maybe one day we'll get itto the point where we'll have actual
in person meetups or like apotluck every once in a while to
just, you know, have. Have agroup of people to lean on when we're
(46:37):
so far apart from each other.But we have just such a common connection
with, you know, working withanimals or farming that it doesn't
have to feel so isolating andyou don't have to actually leave
your home. It's really hard tofind farm sitters, so.
Right.
I wanted to kind of create anopportunity where we can have our
(46:59):
cake and eat it too, in a way.
Absolutely. I love that andreally like building any connection,
whether it's in person oronline. Like, we live isolated lives
in more ways than one. And tobe able to find women who are passionate
about the same life that youhave, and, you know, we can farm
(47:19):
completely different from oneanother and we still come together
as rural women. And reallyit's a testament to all of us because
we're pretty strong women andyou are included in that club. So,
Madeline, my last question foryou is, what's the most rewarding
part about being a rural womanfor you?
(47:41):
I think the most rewardingpart for me is to wake up and not
feel like I have to go towork. That dreaded, like, you know,
your alarm goes off and you'relike, oh, I got to go to work. It's
like I get to wake up and it.I don't have any of those feelings
because what I do for work iswhat I do in my free time. And farming
(48:07):
is my passion. And to have theprivilege to be able to do what I
love for a living and havethat be basically my backyard is
something I've worked reallyhard for and really lucky to have
at this point in time. So Ithink that's the most rewarding part
(48:29):
is to just do what I love andhave it be my living and it's my
passion. So it's really exciting.
All good things for the folkswho would like to connect with you
online. Where can they find you?
So I'm really only onFacebook. I'm not super into Instagram,
(48:51):
not really even sure how itworks, but I do have a page called
Hedgerow Homestead, and that'swhere I've been posting and building
a community through that pageto follow. Not only what I do on
the dairy, but a little bit oflike the homestead and other things
that I do day to day. It'sjust all on that page on Facebook.
(49:15):
I also have my personalFacebook page too that's just under
my name, but it's very similarto my kind of homestead page, so
and I will link.
Those in the show notes sopeople can find you and connect with
you.
Awesome.
Thank you. Madeline, thank youso much for sharing your story with
us today. I really appreciate it.
Thank you so much for having me.
(49:41):
Thanks for listening to theRural Woman Podcast. The Rural Woman
Podcast is more than just apodcast. We are a community. A huge
thank you to the Rural WomanPodcast team. Audio Editor Max Hofer
A special thanks to ourPatreon Executive producers Sarah
Riedner from Happiness by theAcre and Carrie Munvin from Laystone
(50:04):
Farms. To learn how you canbecome a Patreon Executive Producer
or other ways to financiallysupport the show, head on over to
wildrosefarmer.com to learnmore. Be sure to hit the Follow or
Subscribe button wherever youlisten to the podcast to get the
latest episodes directly onyour playlist. And if you are loving
(50:25):
the show, please be sure toleave a rating and review on Apple
Podcasts or any other platformthat accepts ratings and reviews.
You can connect with us onsocial media at the Rural Woman Podcast
and with me, Wildrose Farmer.One of the best ways you can support
the show is by sharing it.Send this episode to a friend or
(50:47):
share on your social medialet's strengthen and amplify the
voices of women in agriculturetogether. Until next time, my friend.
Keep sharing your story.
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