February 14, 2025 • 49 mins
On this week's episode of The Rural Woman Podcast™, you'll meet Alyssa Allen.
Alyssa is first and foremost an animal lover. That passion has brought her to many adventures, most current being the Herd Manager at the Musk Ox Farm in Palmer, Alaska. Being a life long Alaskan, she knows well the struggles of farm work in the unforgiving Arctic. It is tough work for regular farm animals, let alone the least researched North American Ice Age mammal.
For full show notes, including links mentioned in the show, head over to wildrosefarmer.com/214
. . .
THIS WEEK'S DISCUSSIONS:
[05:20] The Muskox Farm: History and Mission
[15:10] Understanding Muskox: Characteristics and Their Habitat
[22:31] Life as a Herd Manager: Daily Responsibilities and Challenges
[31:55] Seasonal Care and Feeding of Muskoxen
[39:42] Understanding Muskox Health Indicators
[41:54] Muskox Reproduction and Calf Care
[47:35] The Value of Muskox Fibre
[57:22] Research and Innovations in Muskox Care
. . .
This week's episode is brought to you by: Advancing Women Conference Patreon
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Meet the Team
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:37):
Hi, I'm Katelyn Duban and thisis the Rural Woman Podcast. I'm a
first generation farmer whomarried into agriculture. Born and
raised in a city, I was sounfamiliar with where my food came
from, but I was determined tofigure it out. Through my journey
into agriculture, I saw womenwho were strong but humble, often
(01:00):
taking a backseat to me. Thesewomen were leaders who deserved a
seat at the table. I createdthe Rural Women Podcast to share
the voices of women in anindustry whose stories often went
untold. The ruralentrepreneurs who live and breathe
their work full of grit andpride. We come here to share our
(01:24):
stories, to be in communitywith each other, to be challenged
and inspired, but mostimportantly, to be celebrated and
to be heard. We may not alllive farm, ranch or homestead the
same, but we are allconnected. We are rural women and
our stories are worthy ofbeing told. Hey everyone.
(01:53):
Welcome back to anotherepisode of the Rural Woman Podcast.
Today you'll meet Alyssa Allen.
Alyssa is first and foremostan animal lover. That passion has
brought her to manyadventures. Most current being the
herd manager at the MuskoxFarm in Palmer, Alaska. Being a lifelong
(02:14):
Alaskan, she knows well thestruggles of farm work in the unforgiving
Arctic. It is tough work forregular farm animals, let alone the
least researched NorthAmerican ice aged mammal. My friends,
I hope you can hear it in myvoice how excited I am for you to
meet Alyssa Allen. We get intothe story of how I found out about
(02:37):
the Muskox Farm in Palmer,Alaska in her interview. It was a
pleasure to learn more aboutthis creature of a Muskox and I am
so excited for you to learnalong with me all about this really
neat animal and all of theamazing work that Alyssa and the
team at the Muskox Farm aredoing to preserve these incredible
(03:01):
neat animals. And I also havea special video for our patrons over
on Patreon that I'm going tobe sharing of my own muskox sighting
not quite in the wild. So I'mgoing to be sharing that over on
Patreon just as a littlebonus. So if you want to see that
(03:22):
video as well as all of theextended audio that we have from
previous guests, as well as mysolo podcast.
Maybe you can relate.
You can head to the link inthe show notes and learn more about
how you can support the RuralWoman Podcast through Patreon and
get special behind the scenesfootage and a Muskox video shot by
(03:47):
yours truly. Without furtherado, my friends, let's get to this
week's episode with Alyssa.Alyssa, welcome to the Rural Woman
podcast. How are you today?
I'm great. How are you?
(04:08):
I'm doing so good. Alyssa, Iam very excited to chat with you
today. And if I can be a dorkand just repeat myself of everything
I said when we hopped on thiscall so people can hear how excited
I am to talk to you. I hadAlyssa and the organization that
(04:29):
Alyssa works for on my list ofpeople I wanted to talk to of rural
women I wanted to talk to inthis industry because you have such
an interesting job and youlive in such an interesting place
and you take care of suchinteresting animals. So I'm very
excited to chat with you.
I am, too.
Not to embarrass you before westart or anything, but thank you
(04:55):
for saying yes to a completestranger who reached out and said,
hey, will you talk on mypodcast? Yeah.
It's a first for me, so I'mhere for it, though.
Good. I'm. I'm so happy. Sobefore I keep fangirling too much,
Alyssa, for the listeners whoare unfamiliar with you, tell us
who you are, where you'refrom, and how you got your start
(05:16):
in agriculture.
Sure. I am Alyssa. I live inWasilla, Alaska. I work in Palmer,
so they're kind of sistercities right next to each other.
So the farm is in Palmer,Alaska, and then Wasilla is just
right next door. I grew uphere in Wasilla. I left the state
for a couple years to go tocollege in Colorado and got some
(05:39):
good experience working inwith large animals in zoos and then
came right back because thisis where I love to be. My whole family
lives here, so I reallystarted my career in working towards
zookeeping. I really justwanted to work with animals. And,
you know, it's the. The youngperson's dream to work with all of
(06:00):
the big, cool animals. And Ijust kind of quickly saw that muskox
are really cool. So I fell inlove with muskox at the Alaska Zoo.
I worked there for four years,and I ended up just being wholly
obsessed with the muskox. Youknow, I was working with polar bears
and brown bears and blackbears and tigers and all of these
(06:22):
amazing cool species that onthe outside, a lot of people would
be more excited about, youknow, the big carnivores. But I really
fell in love with the muskox,and I got to a place, you know, the
Alaska Zoo is in Anchorage,and I was living in Wasilla, and
I had bought a wonderfullittle homestead of my own with my
husband, and we have chickensand turkeys and kind of starting
(06:45):
to not want to drive toAnchorage all the time, every day.
And so I was just kind oflooking for other opportunities.
Growing up in Wasilla, I hadalways been around the muskox farm.
There's a picture of me infirst grade here at the muskox farm
along the same pastures that Iwork now with my whole class. And
(07:06):
so I kind of heard about aposition, this position, and thought
that there was no way that Iwas qualified or of interest. And
I ended up getting theposition. And so here we are where
I only started last April. Andso I am pretty fresh. But it's kind
(07:26):
of a trial by fire situation.You know, there's not a lot of people
that run a muskox farm. Soit's really any problems that you
have, you troubleshootyourself. And they are the least
researched North Americananimal. And so we are really out
here just figuring it outevery day.
(07:47):
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's amazing. And I can justhear the voices of the listeners
that I know. They're soexcited to learn everything there
is about a muskox. And ifthey're not, well, buckle up, because
we're going to learneverything about a muskox. And I
already warned Alyssa, I'mgoing to ask the silly questions
(08:09):
because I. I myself don't knowa lot about muskox. And I can guess
that there's a lot of peoplelistening that don't know about them
either. So we're going to diveinto all of the nerdy things about
muskox, But I want to learnmore about your position as the herd
manager at this farm. And Ilove that this was a place growing
up that you loved going andjust participating and seeing these
(08:33):
incredible animals. So what isyour first memory of this muskox
farm? Farm?
Well, honestly, it wouldprobably have to be the. When I was
in first grade, we would takeclass field trips out to the muskox
farm. And, you know, it'salways just kind of been here, like,
all growing up, it was just,oh, yes, there's a neighborhood,
(08:54):
and then there's the muskoxfarm where there's 80 muskox just
casually in the middle of Palmer.
Yeah. Yeah, that's good. Tellus more about Palmer, Alaska, and
where you're from. You know,there's always the, like, misconceptions
of people living in Alaska.Honestly, there's misconceptions
of people living in Canadathat we live in igloos with polar
(09:17):
bears. But honestly, thatwould probably be more of a reality
for you versus me, right?
Yes. So in we're prettysouthern. In Wasilla and Palmer,
we're pretty southern Alaska.Anchorage is the big city, and that's
about an hour away. And so inPalmer, Wasilla, it's. It is a very
small town, but we do have aTarget and we do have some grocery
(09:39):
stores. So we're not living inigloos, but it's certainly. We don't
have, like, the specialtystores that big cities would have.
But basically anything thatyou could need is found in Anchorage,
which is not that far away. SoPalmer is very much the agriculture
city of Alaska. Alaska as awhole is not a big agriculture state
(10:02):
just because of how difficultit is to have things like hay and
feed and the snow is a bigproblem. Everything's just harder
up here. And so there is asmall space of agriculture out here
in Palmer, and then Wasilla ismore of the, like, suburban town.
They're right close to eachother. And the small bit of agriculture
(10:26):
that we have up here is mostlyin Palmer.
So you had mentioned that youwent to the southern states to go
to school, but you quicklywent home. And I always am curious,
you know, for folks who areliving in these northern climates,
is that typical? Or were mostof the people that, you know, you
(10:46):
went to school with, they werelike, I'm getting the heck out of
here.
Yeah. I think it's probably asolid 50. 50. Either you want to
be here forever or you don't.And I certainly have my days that
I think to myself, why onearth do we live here? Because everything
is just a little bit harderhere. But, yeah, I mean, the family
(11:07):
part is a big part. You know,I have a huge family up here, so
that's really hard to stayaway from. I just knew for certain
that I had to come back.
Right? Well, I knew forcertain that you wanted to work with
big, fun animals.
Yes.
And when I think of a big, funanimal, I'm going to think of a musk
(11:29):
ox from now on, becausethey're real cool.
They're so cool. Yeah.
And I'm trying to remember. SoI was explaining to Alyssa about
my fascination with muskox andhow I've been following your farm
on Instagram forever, becausethese muskox are so cool. And I remember
(11:51):
looking into. I'm like, whocan I talk to from this farm? Because
if the name doesn't reallyexplain it to you. I talked to women
in agriculture, and then whenI saw that a woman was the herd manager
of a muskox farm, all mydreams came true. So how about you
tell us about your farm andwhere you're working. Give us the
(12:11):
history. When did it start?All of the stuff.
So the muskox farm has kind ofa twisty history. John Teal was a
man that just had a seriouslove for muskox, and he was certain
that we needed muskoxeverywhere. Honestly, I. I have been
working here for, you know,over a year, but I don't have the
(12:35):
whole history memorized in myhead. Basically, John Teal, he wanted
to domesticate the muskox,essentially to give as a gift to
native Alaskans, as anagricultural product that we could
set up muskox farms to beincome for native Alaskans. So that
(12:56):
was kind of his fever dreamback in the 80s. And so he acquired
muskox. We understand that ittakes hundreds of thousands of years
to domesticate an animal. Sowe would call our animals habituated.
They are born on property andtrained and handled in a way that
(13:18):
we know is sustainable fortheir entire lifetime so that we
can use them for education tothe public and sustainable qiviut
production. And so qiviut isthe under hair of the muskox. That
is the interesting thing aboutthem. There are lots of interesting
things about them, But a lotof people are very interested in
(13:39):
their hair. And so they have adouble coat. The guard hair stays
on them, and I hand comb theunder hair out. And it's a very soft
and fine fiber. And so that'swhere we get, you know, the fiber
artists that really want towork with the hair. And it's a very
specialty thing. Either youget it from us, or you're getting
(14:01):
it from people that pick it upoff of the ground in the area that
the wild muskox exist, oryou're getting it from hunted animals
that you comb it off of theirhide after they've been hunted. So
it's a very rare fiber becausethe sourcing is very difficult. But
the muskox today exists as anonprofit for education to the public
(14:27):
about the species, aboutmuskox, sustainable qiviut production.
And we try to be available forspecies research when we can. And
so we are involved in a coupleof projects that are contributing
to the species as a whole. Sothat's kind of where we are at in
2024, how we got there. Youknow, it started as this little farm,
(14:50):
John Teal's grand idea. Ithink it actually started in Vermont,
and then they were moved up toAlaska, and we kind of trickled into
a couple different places andthen settled here in, I want to say,
86 and we've been here eversince, so.
Cool. Now I'm going to ask youall of the nerdy things about muskox
(15:12):
because like I said, I don'tknow a lot about them besides. So
to me, they look like a crossbetween a bison and a cow. Is that
fair to say? No. Okay, so they are.
Would actually be most closelyrelated to goats.
Get out of here.
Yeah, yeah. So they're a hugearctic goat is the basic.
(15:36):
I feel like I now know why Ilove muskox, because I'm a goat lady.
I have goats right out my window.
So.
Yes.
Yeah. So they're, they're cooltaxonomy wise. Yeah, they're closely
closer to goats than cattleand bison for sure. We get the bison
thing a lot, but they are notclosely related to bison. So the
closest North American specieswould be the Rocky Mountain goat.
(16:00):
And then the closest overallspecies is a species of goat that
lives over in the mountains,all the way in the other side of
the world.
Siberia.
Yeah, yeah, that, that type ofarea. I, I would have to look it
up. It's because it alsochanges. There's like serious debate.
I swear it changes everycouple years, but, oh, it's the goral,
(16:23):
which is in. See what theylike to say. It's the talkin also.
And this is a species of goat.
Yes.
Okay.
I believe at the moment thegoral is considered the closest related
species and it is a goat thatlives in the Himalayas.
Very cool. Okay, so talk to usabout, you know, you've been at this
(16:46):
job now for a year, year and ahalf now. Talk to us about, like
when you first started andstarted working with these animals,
what was that like?
Yeah, so a big part of themuskox farm is that we are not only
sustainable, but also gentle.Gentle. Sustainable Kibi production
(17:07):
is kind of our M.O. and so wehave these muskox that are, like
I said, habituated, notdomesticated. And so they are trained
to interact with us the waythat we would prefer them to interact
with us. But at the end of theday, my biggest measure on health
is weekly weights. And the waythat I do that is I heard them on
(17:29):
foot to the barn to getweighed every week. And so they,
you know, they are, like wesaid, they're related to goats. But
my biggest has topped over1,000 pounds. Average is like 5 to
600 pounds. But that's, youknow, it's still a big animal. And
so I do play seatingarrangements. I have 75 acres and
(17:51):
about 30 pastures. And so I'mable to split them up into smaller
groups. And so my biggestgroup is about 12. But what that
looks like is I go out withone or two other people and I heard
them on foot to the barn. It'sa normal part of their day. Usually
we get them in the barn firsttime when they're about a week old
and then every week for theirwhole life. And so it's a very routine
(18:15):
thing for them. But they arestill muskox and they are still stubborn
and they are still freewilled, free choice animals. And
we're not going out there withcattle prods. We have ourselves and
that's it. And so coming froma background of zookeeping, you know,
I worked with muskox on aprotected contact situation. So that
(18:38):
means you're never stepping onthe other side of the fence with
them. It was pretty wild tojust kind of get thrown into this
situation where you're justlike, oh, you just trust. You know,
they are used to it. They knowwhat they're. But then, you know,
they all have very individualpersonalities. And so some of them
(18:59):
will, you know, bluff, chargeor do muskox things, normal muskox
behavior. And we just acceptit. You know, we're not aiming to
be rough with them ever. Andso it was pretty intimidating at
first, but then you just kindof get in the swing of it and they
(19:20):
know their job and you knowyour job and you hurt them like you
would anything else.
Like a normal goat.
Like a normal goat, yeah.
Who is many hundreds of poundsless than that musk.
Yes.
Yeah. Oh, my gosh. So, andlike you said, they all kind of,
I'm sure they all have theirtype of personalities and temperament
(19:43):
and the more that you workwith them, you're going to learn
that that's one that you don'tmess around with and then the other
one may be a little bit nicerof a muskog.
The biggest thing is that theyare a fiercely herd minded creature.
And so amongst their owngroup, they have their own hierarchy.
And so the biggest thing, youknow, they're in no situation other
(20:07):
than bulls and rut have I everhad one that's just like out to get
me. But it's more like you'reworking with, oh, that muskox is
running towards me becausethe, you know, top in this group
is up there being a jerk. Andso you're kind of juggling a herd
of animals that has its ownhierarchy amongst themselves and
(20:30):
accepting that their behavioris based off of everybody else's
behavior. And if everybodystarts running the wrong direction
Then there's not a lot you cando about that because it's already
started. It's very much like asnowball situation. If everybody
decides today is going to be agood day and it's going to be easy,
then it goes super easy. Butsometimes it doesn't.
(20:52):
Sometimes they wake up andchoose violence. Is they really do.
They really do. Yeah.
So what does a typical daylook like for you then?
As the herd manager,everything's very seasonal. So right
now we're getting into winter.I'm not doing much pasture rotation
anymore because everybody's intheir set winter pens. They have
(21:14):
hay feeders, they have heatedwater tanks. The day in the life
is first, get everybody in thebarn, get everybody weighed. I would
say, cumulatively, it takesaround four to six hours to get all
of the muskox weighed, butthat's usually spread out throughout
the week. And so in themorning you come in, you have to
(21:35):
wait till it's daylightbecause now we're in winter and the
sun doesn't come out till 8:30or 9 right now. And herd whatever
groups left I have to weighand then go around and feed everybody,
make sure that everybody haswater. And then right now I have
four calves that were bornlast spring. And so a lot of my day
(21:58):
is spent socializing with themand making sure that they have a
good foundation in theirroutine of, you know, if they grow
up knowing that herding andweighing and all of that is just
a normal thing, that then it'sjust much easier for their entire
life. So a lot of my day isspent socializing with them, and
(22:19):
then everything is just aproject. There is so many miles of
fencing on this property, andI think I could spend every day,
all day fixing fence, and Iwould still be fixing fence at the
end of the day.
So I'm curious when you'retalking about fencing. So on a typical
(22:41):
little goat, fencing isbasically like a challenge for them
of how can I get out of thisfencing? Is that similar to a muskox?
I would say, you know, we havepretty big pastures, and so generally
they are pretty content aslong as there's not. Like I said
before, I. I place seedingcharts. I put animals together so
(23:04):
that hopefully they get alongso that there's not much strife amongst
their little herd. Usuallythey don't have much pushing them
to want to get out thefencing, but, you know, their long
hair makes them itchy andthey're growing here all the time.
And so they're just like, ifthey're not playing with fence that
in turn breaks it. Thenthey're rubbing on it and that breaks
(23:26):
it. We use posts and then justwire fencing that we stretch so it's
tight at the beginning atleast. And then they run into it
or hit it or rub on it to itchand everything that they do just
breaks it.
Yep, I know the feeling.
(23:47):
It's a constant problem.
Yeah. I've always said if youwant good goats, then you have to
have good fence. Because ifyou don't have a good fence, you
don't have a good goat. So youalso need good fence for a muskox.
Yes. So, yeah, usually if it'slike nice and new, they don't generally
mess with it. But as soon asit starts making noise, it's fun.
(24:07):
And then they play with it and then.
Love that. Love that for them,not for you. So you had mentioned,
obviously you're going intothe winter season. So they're in
their winter pens, they'rebeing fed hay. How long do they typically
stay out on pasture for?
I mean, they're out on pastureall the time, 24, 7. In the summer.
(24:28):
I have like two or three timesthe amount of pastures that I would
need for my groups. And so I'mable to do a really nice rotation
to make sure grass is gettingeaten down evenly. In the winter,
everybody just stays in onepen and I bring them hay out to them.
They like the cold. They wouldlike nothing more than it to be snowing
(24:51):
and windy and all of thethings that we hate, but they are
perfectly happy out there.
Yeah, well, it's that doublecoat. Right. It's keeping them. I
have a Bernese mountain dogwho would also love it to be winter
all of the time because ofthat double coat. So how long for
growing season? I guess forgrasses and stuff. How long are they
(25:12):
able to eat the grass versusbeing fed hay?
So our winter is longer thanmost places. So we are usually feeding
hay around the end ofSeptember to middle of May, beginning
of May. You know, it's hardbecause I do have a limited amount
of space. They do have to kindof like, there's no. Once we hit
(25:33):
springtime, there's not reallyany pastures that I could completely,
like, leave them out of to letthe grass grow. And so it's kind
of like a slow taper off ofhay because they're on the grass
that's trying to grow as it'sgrowing. So it's kind of a balance
of trying to give them accessto fresh grass because that's what
(25:54):
they want to be eating eventhough we don't really want them
to be eating it as it's growing.
Right. For sure. You hadmentioned, obviously Alaskan agriculture
is a whole new beast that Icould not even imagine to begin to
deal with. But talking abouthay and feed and all of these things,
(26:14):
where are you getting the hayto feed the muskox?
(27:38):
So we've been pretty fortunatein our history that there is a hay
field that had been beinghayed right now next to us that we
generally would get all of ourhay right over there. The farmer
would pick up the hay baleswith the baler truck and drive right
over. Hay is obviously kind ofa beast a in the world, but also
(28:00):
in making like Alaska weather,we've had a really good streak of
that. Our lovely hay farmer isretiring and I believe that land
is being sold and it's notunder a farmland protection. So honestly
we're kind of, we're hopingthat we will continue to get local
hay, but we're kind of lookinglike we're. We might have to start
(28:24):
take getting outside hay andgrain. We have a wonderful grain
mill in Anchorage, Alaska.Mill and feed. They supply all kinds
of grain to all of the, youknow, like the Alaska Zoo and the
Alaska Wildlife Conservationcenter and all of the specialty grain
for these animals that areoutside of the realm of normal. Horses,
(28:49):
pigs and goats. So I actuallyhave a muskox ration that I get from
Alaska Meal and Feed. Theformula was made by the Large Animal
Research Station in Fairbanks.So that is a research station in
Fairbanks that has a herd ofresearch animals. I believe right
(29:11):
now they have musk ox andcaribou. And so we work closely together
to try to keep everybody ashealthy as possible. We're actually
looking at redoing kind oftheir formulation right now. But
basically we act as if theforage for our animals is either
(29:31):
grass in the summer or hay inthe winter. And then the grain is
just a mineral, vitamin,mineral supplement essentially. So
we're expecting that ourmuskox are eating their forage as
the bulk of their diet andthen our grain is just a vitamin,
mineral supplement to kind offill in the gaps where our forage
(29:53):
differs from where they wouldnaturally be foraging.
I'm curious, as the herdmanager, obviously you're weighing
them so you're getting thathands on with them weekly to see
the weight of them. For you tosee a muskox like what to you tells
you that you have a healthylooking animal versus maybe somebody
(30:15):
that needs a little help, honestly.
They are Incredibly stoicanimals. And they will not show you
that there is something wrongwith them until they are keeling
over. So that can be kind ofdifficult. Weight on the scale is
always my number one. Go to.Their coat kind of changes color
when they're either gettingsickly or just deficient in the vitamins
(30:40):
and minerals that they need.Copper is an incredibly important
source for muskoxspecifically. And you can always
kind of tell that they'regetting deficient because they're.
They're supposed to be nice,usually dark color. The Canadian
muskox usually are dark allover. And the Greenland muskox have
(31:02):
kind of just a white freckledface a little bit more. But generally,
even between Canadian andGreenland, like a nice dark brown
color along their sides anddown their legs should be what you're.
You're hoping for. A nice,healthy muskox is going to be. Have
a rich, dark brown color. Andso you can kind of tell when they're
(31:23):
not doing as well, if theircoat lightens in color or you can
almost kind of see it in theirhooves that they'll get frail and
brittle. But I would say thenumber one way that I can tell if
somebody's not doing well isdefinitely behavior is a huge thing.
They love their mineralpellet. And so the second anybody
(31:46):
doesn't want that, it's like,okay, what's happening with you?
But then outside of. Outsideof behavior, weight is totally the
first indication of health forat least my herd.
Okay, I want to talk aboutbaby muskox first of all. What do
they call them?
Their calves.
Their calves. Okay, so what isthe gestational period for a Muskox?
(32:11):
It is 244 days, depending onwho you talk to. Everybody there
is a man that swears, but itis specifically 244 days on the dot.
So that puts you at aroundeight months. So we breed intentionally
here, as you should on a bigfarm. And so we put our muskox into
(32:32):
harems. So that's one bullwith several ladies around the beginning
of August, and then they comeout the beginning of October. And
so that gives you two goodmonths of interaction with the bulls.
And then we separate them forthe rest of the year. And so then
the moms all live together sothat I can watch them really closely.
(32:52):
And then we just hope and prayfor babies in April, May. There are
ways to tell if a muskox ispregnant, most of which are really
either too expensive or tooinvasive to be good consistent options.
So really our way of testingif they are pregnant is you have
(33:14):
a calf on the ground and thatnow, now we know that you were pregnant.
It worked. So about eightmonths, the 244 days. Are Muskox
typically having a single calfor are you getting twins or multiple?
Twins are very, very rare. Ithas happened, but it almost never
(33:35):
happens. I don't believe thatwe have ever had. We've either only
had one set of twins or havenever. And it's usually not a great
situation for either of thecalves. Usually you'd have to bottle
raise them because they just,just don't make enough milk for two
babies typically.
How big are the babies?
(33:55):
So we like to say 12 to 15pounds. But then again, because we
kind of err on the side ofgentle and cautious, we usually are
not getting weights on themuntil they're at least three days
old, sometimes even just aweek old. And so we've seen babies
as big as £27 at birth. But welike to say that 12 to 15 is average.
(34:22):
Well, and giving them thattime, like you said, to bond and
not stress out the mother andall of those things. Probably a really
good thing when you are gentlywalking up to them and saying, please
come to the scale for me.Thank you.
Basically the worst thing thatcould happen, not the, I mean the
worst thing that could happenis a baby doesn't survive. But the
(34:45):
second worst thing that couldhappen is having a bottle baby. We
really, really, really wantmom to be able to raise the calf.
And so we really try not tomess with them much at all for the
first like three days to a week.
So you're saying it would bethe worst thing to have a bottle
baby muskox. And I'm thinkinglike that would be really cute to
(35:06):
feed a muskox baby.
Yes, it is really, reallycute. You know, I raised three musk
ox calves at the Alaska Zoothat were orphaned from the wild
and they are adorable and itis delightful. They usually love
hanging out with people whenthey've become accustomed to having
bottles and that kind ofthing. Problem is then you grow up
(35:29):
with a muskox that doesn'trespect boundaries and that can be
a huge, huge problem. So our,we always want mom to be raising
their own calf. And then onceweaning happens, we can kind of get
in there and really socialize.But at no point are we just petting
for fun. We are doingeverything in the interest of what's
(35:52):
best for the calf and its longlifetime success, basically.
So we talked about, obviouslysome uses for a muskox would be for
fiber and their hair beingused traditionally. Can you share
with us what you know abouttraditionally? What is a muskox used
(36:14):
for?
Well, I mean, they arecertainly. So they're protected to
a certain extent by the stateof Alaska because they went extinct.
But there is a certain numberof hunting permits that do happen
and so people do. I mean, it'san incredible trophy. You know, muskox
are pretty cool, but also theyare used for subsistence. You know,
(36:37):
they have quite a bit of meaton their bones. And so while we don't
ever eat any of the muskoxthat die on this farm because usually
they die old, but that isdefinitely something that happens
up here and is a big part ofkind of the culture of muskox. You
know, there are so few huntingpermits that it is a pretty coveted
(37:01):
one. So they can certainly beeaten and people love it. I guess.
I've never eaten muskox, butthat was.
Going to be my question. Haveyou ever eaten a muskox before?
No, I've never tried it. I.There are people that say that it's
the best and there's the,there's people that say it was terrible.
So I'm curious because, so Imyself, I've been raising goats since2017
(37:27):
and I've raised meat goats.I've never eaten one of my goats
and I've never eaten a goatbefore. But I know that, you know,
it has a certain taste and itneeds to be cooked a certain way
to taste well. So I'm assuminga muskox is probably similar in the
low and slow. We'll have tolook up muskox recipes, right?
(37:49):
I mean, there are people thatsay that it is like the best thing
ever and it's like they thinkthat we're crazy that we don't eat
them. And the reality is theyare not a good option for meat animals
because a, they breakeverything and they grow so slowly.
So they are reaching maturityat like, not maturity but like full
(38:13):
grown body wise, weight wiseat like 4 or 5. And so that in terms
of like just growing for meatis not very sustainable. And they're
incredibly difficult to dealwith. And so it's just not in any
way profitable. And so the,the hair is the way to go for sure.
(38:34):
Yeah. So tell us more aboutthe hair. Like you had said, you
brush these animals to get theundercoat from them. How do you brush
a muskox?
They come into the barn, intothe same space every time. It's a
scale on a squeeze chute andso they become pretty accustomed
(38:55):
to standing in there. They gettreats in there. We always want it
to be a positive experience.Like I said, they all have very individual
personalities and some, youknow, like it or tolerate it better
than others. And so Idefinitely have ones that I can't
just comb. And so we just haveto respect that. We, you know, at
(39:15):
the core of the Muskox farm,we are gentle and sustainable. So
I would say out of my 75, Iprobably have 15 that I can't just
comb in the squeeze chute. Andso the other 65 I can just bring
into the place that I weighthem. And you kind of have to protect
your arms and be ready foranything. But generally they come
(39:39):
into the stanchion, they havesomebody solely there just to feed
them treats, their mineralpellet that they are obsessed with.
While one or two people are oneither side hand combing the fiber
from the guard hair. So we useactually afro picks, so it's metal
toothed combs and just kind ofget it out from the guard hair and
(40:03):
that's how you do it.
So with them, you're obviouslyweighing them every week and bringing
them in. Are you brushing themevery week for the ones that let
you?
No. So they actually, theyjust shed one time a year. So they
grow their hair all winter.It's what keeps them so incredibly
warm and happy in the terriblecold winter. And then usually around
(40:24):
the beginning or the middle ofApril, everybody starts to shed.
And really trying to brushthem outside of that season is A,
it's just going to be pullingon their hair and they're not going
to like it and B, it, I mean,it takes forever. So like I said
before, there is a certainnumber of kibiut products that come
(40:45):
from hunters that comb thekibiut out of like a hunted cape.
That takes so much time. Andit is very difficult to get all of
that hair because it's notmeant to be leaving yet. So it's
kind of like a switch turnsand all of a sudden the hair is coming
off and I just have to time itright that I have them in the barn
(41:08):
when they're shedding and getit off of them before it hits the
ground.
So what are you doing? I wantto say this right. Is it kibute that
you're getting off of them,their hair? That's called kibiut.
Yes. So we like to say yougive a hoot about qiviut is the way
that we explain it to thehundreds of children that come for
(41:30):
their school.
Groups and they'll neverforget that.
Kibiute.
Kibiute, yes. So typically,like you said, that there's a lot
of, I guess, crafters orpeople for fiber art to use it. I
noticed on the website you dohave some of it for. What is it called?
A ball of kibiut. Like. Like aball of yarn, but it's kibiut.
(41:51):
Yeah. So basically we send ourraw fiber out to be processed in
a huge bunch usually everythree years. It goes actually down
to Peru, where there is a guythat specializes in special quality
fiber. And so basically itgets to him and he does all of the
(42:12):
magical things that turns theraw fiber into yarn, dyes, some of
it. And they do, like, machineknitting there. And so there are
certain garments that we getjust like fully produced garments
back from him. And then someof it, we have local artists up here
(42:33):
that take the raw, undyed yarnand they do magical dyeing and knitting
and all of the wonderfulthings. So we have basically a section
of things that are knitted bythe guy that processes the fiber
and then specialty items thatare. We get the yarn from Peru and
(42:58):
then it gets turned intowonderful items by local artists
up here.
And I'm assuming. Well, maybeI shouldn't assume this. Is it similar
to wool, then, like thefeeling of it, or what are the differences
that you can tell between it?
The biggest difference is thatqiviut is very, very fine and very
(43:20):
soft. So it can be consideredsimilar to wool, but it's more of
a lace weight, if that makessense. So it's a very fine fiber.
So they used to like to goaround and say that Qiviut was eight
times warmer and softer andeverything than wool. And so that
(43:40):
was kind of the selling point.One of the research projects that
we've been a part of isactually deep that a little bit.
So that is no longer true.It's not eight times. But basically
the deal is that it is aswarm, if not warmer than wool, but
it is very fine and very, verysoft. And so it's, you know, it's
(44:01):
not going to be good forthings like big sweaters and, you
know, the things that youwould think for wool, but more just
like very fine, soft garmentthat is incredibly warm.
Also, do you have any clothingitems or pieces made out of kivi
that you have?
(44:22):
I don't actually. That makesme terrible that I'm the muskox farmer
that doesn't have any. I don'tactually own. My brother bought a
hat when I first started, andit is his favorite thing in the whole
world. He is like a trapperand does all kinds of wild things
(44:43):
in the middle of nowhere,Alaska. And he is always wearing
his Qibiut hat. So definitelyI see the utility.
Yeah.
As well as how pretty thethings that can be made out of it.
Yeah, very cool. Researchproject wise, what kind of research
is being done at your farmthat you can share with us?
(45:04):
So it's actually kind of acrazy project. We are actually working
with the Space Force and AirForce. The Air Force research lab
is essentially doing a projectresearching kiviut as a gear option.
Not necessarily to makegarments for the military out of
(45:26):
qiviut, but potentially tomake synthetic Qiviut because it
is so fine. And so we havesent Qiviut samples, we've sent guard
hair samples, we've sent skinbiopsy punches so that they can look
at not only the fiber itself,but the follicles. And yeah, they're
(45:46):
doing all kinds of reallyincredible work right now with a
lot of the samples that I takeand send to them.
Yeah, that's so neat. And I'm.I'm excited to see what they come
up with.
Yeah, it's very exciting. LikeI said, very little research is done
on muskox and very little isknown about muskox. And so anything
(46:07):
that we are able to learnabout them is always really cool.
And any way that I cancontribute to that is always really
exciting. I love that side ofthis job. We also work with the geneticist
at Cornell University that hasyears and years and years of DNA
samples from our muskox thatshe's doing all kinds of really cool
(46:28):
things with. So I love thatside of this job, for sure.
Yeah, very cool. I want to askyou, you know, just a simple question.
What do you think is yourfavorite thing about muskox and working
with them?
Oh, man.
So many things.
Yeah, so many things.Honestly, I think probably. I love
that I am probably the onlyperson that has a title like this.
(46:52):
You know, there's very fewplaces that have muskox, let alone
this many of them. This is, Imean, it's for sure the largest captive
herd. And so I really lovethat I just wake up every day and
I come out and I get to seejust a huge array of all of the same
(47:13):
species. You know, I. I workedin more than one zoo, and it was
always very exciting to do,you know, anything that would benefit
the. The species of whateveranimal I was working with. But to
have, like, direct impact onwhat we've known and what we know
about Muskox is reallyexciting to me. So having access
(47:36):
to this large of a herd for meis just really cool. And to see the,
like I said, the huge array ofpersonality amongst 75 animals is
just. It's huge. When I firststarted, I remember the. The previous
herd manager would be able tojust walk out into whatever, you
(47:59):
know, up to whatever pastureand be able to almost pick out face
by face from very far awaywho's who. And I thought that was
crazy. I was like, there's 75of the same species and you're telling
me that you can pickindividual faces, but now I'm at
that place that I couldprobably see any one of my muskox
(48:20):
from, you know, all the way inthe back of the pasture, and I could
tell you almost certainlywhich one is which. And I think that's
pretty cool.
That's very cool.
You know, I have so many ofthem and they're all still so individual.
That's amazing. I love that.Alyssa, it has been an absolute pleasure
(48:42):
getting to talk to you allabout Muskox and, you know, for answering
an email to a stranger on theInternet saying, hey, will you come
talk about muskox with me?Like, you did great.
Thanks. Thank you.
For the listeners who wouldlike to connect with you and the
farm, where can they find moreinformation about the Muskox farm?
(49:05):
The muskox farm.org I'm prettysure it's just themuskoxfarm.org
is our home base and that's.That's everything. We have hundreds
and thousands of visitors thatcome to see us every year, and it's
always. People always leaveknowing a lot more about muskox than
they came knowing. And so,yeah, come visit the Muskox Farm.
(49:29):
It's a great place.
We are also all leaving hereknowing much more about muskox than
we did when we started. So youdid great. Thank you so much, Alyssa.
We'll put those links in theshow notes so people can find the
organization and connect withyou and come and see what these big
woolly goats look like.
Yeah. Heck, yeah.
(49:50):
Thank you again so much forsharing your story with us. I appreciate
it.
Thank you.
Thanks for listening to thethe Rural Woman Podcast. The Rural
Woman Podcast is more thanjust a podcast. We are a community.
A huge thank you to the RuralWoman Podcast team. Audio editor
(50:12):
Max Hofer. A special thanks toour Patreon executive producers,
Sarah Riedner from Happinessby the Acre and Carrie Munven from
Blaestone Farms. To learn howyou can become a Patreon Executive
Producer, producer, or otherways to financially support the show.
Head on over towildrosefarmer.com to learn more.
(50:34):
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(51:00):
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Send this episode to a friendor share on your social media let's
strengthen and amplify thevoices of women in agriculture together.
Until next time, my friend,Keep sharing your story.
Hi, I'm Katelyn Duban and thisis the Rural Woman Podcast. I'm a
first generation farmer whomarried into agriculture. Born and
raised in a city, I was sounfamiliar with where my food came
from, but I was determined tofigure it out. Through my journey
into agriculture, I saw womenwho were strong but humble, often
(01:00):
taking a backseat to me. Thesewomen were leaders who deserved a
seat at the table. I createdthe Rural Women Podcast to share
the voices of women in anindustry whose stories often went
untold. The ruralentrepreneurs who live and breathe
their work full of grit andpride. We come here to share our
(01:24):
stories, to be in communitywith each other, to be challenged
and inspired, but mostimportantly, to be celebrated and
to be heard. We may not alllive farm, ranch or homestead the
same, but we are allconnected. We are rural women and
our stories are worthy ofbeing told. Hey everyone.
(01:53):
Welcome back to anotherepisode of the Rural Woman Podcast.
Today you'll meet Alyssa Allen.
Alyssa is first and foremostan animal lover. That passion has
brought her to manyadventures. Most current being the
herd manager at the MuskoxFarm in Palmer, Alaska. Being a lifelong
(02:14):
Alaskan, she knows well thestruggles of farm work in the unforgiving
Arctic. It is tough work forregular farm animals, let alone the
least researched NorthAmerican ice aged mammal. My friends,
I hope you can hear it in myvoice how excited I am for you to
meet Alyssa Allen. We get intothe story of how I found out about
(02:37):
the Muskox Farm in Palmer,Alaska in her interview. It was a
pleasure to learn more aboutthis creature of a Muskox and I am
so excited for you to learnalong with me all about this really
neat animal and all of theamazing work that Alyssa and the
team at the Muskox Farm aredoing to preserve these incredible
(03:01):
neat animals. And I also havea special video for our patrons over
on Patreon that I'm going tobe sharing of my own muskox sighting
not quite in the wild. So I'mgoing to be sharing that over on
Patreon just as a littlebonus. So if you want to see that
(03:22):
video as well as all of theextended audio that we have from
previous guests, as well as mysolo podcast.
Maybe you can relate.
You can head to the link inthe show notes and learn more about
how you can support the RuralWoman Podcast through Patreon and
get special behind the scenesfootage and a Muskox video shot by
(03:47):
yours truly. Without furtherado, my friends, let's get to this
week's episode with Alyssa.Alyssa, welcome to the Rural Woman
podcast. How are you today?
I'm great. How are you?
(04:08):
I'm doing so good. Alyssa, Iam very excited to chat with you
today. And if I can be a dorkand just repeat myself of everything
I said when we hopped on thiscall so people can hear how excited
I am to talk to you. I hadAlyssa and the organization that
(04:29):
Alyssa works for on my list ofpeople I wanted to talk to of rural
women I wanted to talk to inthis industry because you have such
an interesting job and youlive in such an interesting place
and you take care of suchinteresting animals. So I'm very
excited to chat with you.
I am, too.
Not to embarrass you before westart or anything, but thank you
(04:55):
for saying yes to a completestranger who reached out and said,
hey, will you talk on mypodcast? Yeah.
It's a first for me, so I'mhere for it, though.
Good. I'm. I'm so happy. Sobefore I keep fangirling too much,
Alyssa, for the listeners whoare unfamiliar with you, tell us
who you are, where you'refrom, and how you got your start
(05:16):
in agriculture.
Sure. I am Alyssa. I live inWasilla, Alaska. I work in Palmer,
so they're kind of sistercities right next to each other.
So the farm is in Palmer,Alaska, and then Wasilla is just
right next door. I grew uphere in Wasilla. I left the state
for a couple years to go tocollege in Colorado and got some
(05:39):
good experience working inwith large animals in zoos and then
came right back because thisis where I love to be. My whole family
lives here, so I reallystarted my career in working towards
zookeeping. I really justwanted to work with animals. And,
you know, it's the. The youngperson's dream to work with all of
(06:00):
the big, cool animals. And Ijust kind of quickly saw that muskox
are really cool. So I fell inlove with muskox at the Alaska Zoo.
I worked there for four years,and I ended up just being wholly
obsessed with the muskox. Youknow, I was working with polar bears
and brown bears and blackbears and tigers and all of these
(06:22):
amazing cool species that onthe outside, a lot of people would
be more excited about, youknow, the big carnivores. But I really
fell in love with the muskox,and I got to a place, you know, the
Alaska Zoo is in Anchorage,and I was living in Wasilla, and
I had bought a wonderfullittle homestead of my own with my
husband, and we have chickensand turkeys and kind of starting
(06:45):
to not want to drive toAnchorage all the time, every day.
And so I was just kind oflooking for other opportunities.
Growing up in Wasilla, I hadalways been around the muskox farm.
There's a picture of me infirst grade here at the muskox farm
along the same pastures that Iwork now with my whole class. And
(07:06):
so I kind of heard about aposition, this position, and thought
that there was no way that Iwas qualified or of interest. And
I ended up getting theposition. And so here we are where
I only started last April. Andso I am pretty fresh. But it's kind
(07:26):
of a trial by fire situation.You know, there's not a lot of people
that run a muskox farm. Soit's really any problems that you
have, you troubleshootyourself. And they are the least
researched North Americananimal. And so we are really out
here just figuring it outevery day.
(07:47):
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's amazing. And I can justhear the voices of the listeners
that I know. They're soexcited to learn everything there
is about a muskox. And ifthey're not, well, buckle up, because
we're going to learneverything about a muskox. And I
already warned Alyssa, I'mgoing to ask the silly questions
(08:09):
because I. I myself don't knowa lot about muskox. And I can guess
that there's a lot of peoplelistening that don't know about them
either. So we're going to diveinto all of the nerdy things about
muskox, But I want to learnmore about your position as the herd
manager at this farm. And Ilove that this was a place growing
up that you loved going andjust participating and seeing these
(08:33):
incredible animals. So what isyour first memory of this muskox
farm? Farm?
Well, honestly, it wouldprobably have to be the. When I was
in first grade, we would takeclass field trips out to the muskox
farm. And, you know, it'salways just kind of been here, like,
all growing up, it was just,oh, yes, there's a neighborhood,
(08:54):
and then there's the muskoxfarm where there's 80 muskox just
casually in the middle of Palmer.
Yeah. Yeah, that's good. Tellus more about Palmer, Alaska, and
where you're from. You know,there's always the, like, misconceptions
of people living in Alaska.Honestly, there's misconceptions
of people living in Canadathat we live in igloos with polar
(09:17):
bears. But honestly, thatwould probably be more of a reality
for you versus me, right?
Yes. So in we're prettysouthern. In Wasilla and Palmer,
we're pretty southern Alaska.Anchorage is the big city, and that's
about an hour away. And so inPalmer, Wasilla, it's. It is a very
small town, but we do have aTarget and we do have some grocery
(09:39):
stores. So we're not living inigloos, but it's certainly. We don't
have, like, the specialtystores that big cities would have.
But basically anything thatyou could need is found in Anchorage,
which is not that far away. SoPalmer is very much the agriculture
city of Alaska. Alaska as awhole is not a big agriculture state
(10:02):
just because of how difficultit is to have things like hay and
feed and the snow is a bigproblem. Everything's just harder
up here. And so there is asmall space of agriculture out here
in Palmer, and then Wasilla ismore of the, like, suburban town.
They're right close to eachother. And the small bit of agriculture
(10:26):
that we have up here is mostlyin Palmer.
So you had mentioned that youwent to the southern states to go
to school, but you quicklywent home. And I always am curious,
you know, for folks who areliving in these northern climates,
is that typical? Or were mostof the people that, you know, you
(10:46):
went to school with, they werelike, I'm getting the heck out of
here.
Yeah. I think it's probably asolid 50. 50. Either you want to
be here forever or you don't.And I certainly have my days that
I think to myself, why onearth do we live here? Because everything
is just a little bit harderhere. But, yeah, I mean, the family
(11:07):
part is a big part. You know,I have a huge family up here, so
that's really hard to stayaway from. I just knew for certain
that I had to come back.
Right? Well, I knew forcertain that you wanted to work with
big, fun animals.
Yes.
And when I think of a big, funanimal, I'm going to think of a musk
(11:29):
ox from now on, becausethey're real cool.
They're so cool. Yeah.
And I'm trying to remember. SoI was explaining to Alyssa about
my fascination with muskox andhow I've been following your farm
on Instagram forever, becausethese muskox are so cool. And I remember
(11:51):
looking into. I'm like, whocan I talk to from this farm? Because
if the name doesn't reallyexplain it to you. I talked to women
in agriculture, and then whenI saw that a woman was the herd manager
of a muskox farm, all mydreams came true. So how about you
tell us about your farm andwhere you're working. Give us the
(12:11):
history. When did it start?All of the stuff.
So the muskox farm has kind ofa twisty history. John Teal was a
man that just had a seriouslove for muskox, and he was certain
that we needed muskoxeverywhere. Honestly, I. I have been
working here for, you know,over a year, but I don't have the
(12:35):
whole history memorized in myhead. Basically, John Teal, he wanted
to domesticate the muskox,essentially to give as a gift to
native Alaskans, as anagricultural product that we could
set up muskox farms to beincome for native Alaskans. So that
(12:56):
was kind of his fever dreamback in the 80s. And so he acquired
muskox. We understand that ittakes hundreds of thousands of years
to domesticate an animal. Sowe would call our animals habituated.
They are born on property andtrained and handled in a way that
(13:18):
we know is sustainable fortheir entire lifetime so that we
can use them for education tothe public and sustainable qiviut
production. And so qiviut isthe under hair of the muskox. That
is the interesting thing aboutthem. There are lots of interesting
things about them, But a lotof people are very interested in
(13:39):
their hair. And so they have adouble coat. The guard hair stays
on them, and I hand comb theunder hair out. And it's a very soft
and fine fiber. And so that'swhere we get, you know, the fiber
artists that really want towork with the hair. And it's a very
specialty thing. Either youget it from us, or you're getting
(14:01):
it from people that pick it upoff of the ground in the area that
the wild muskox exist, oryou're getting it from hunted animals
that you comb it off of theirhide after they've been hunted. So
it's a very rare fiber becausethe sourcing is very difficult. But
the muskox today exists as anonprofit for education to the public
(14:27):
about the species, aboutmuskox, sustainable qiviut production.
And we try to be available forspecies research when we can. And
so we are involved in a coupleof projects that are contributing
to the species as a whole. Sothat's kind of where we are at in
2024, how we got there. Youknow, it started as this little farm,
(14:50):
John Teal's grand idea. Ithink it actually started in Vermont,
and then they were moved up toAlaska, and we kind of trickled into
a couple different places andthen settled here in, I want to say,
86 and we've been here eversince, so.
Cool. Now I'm going to ask youall of the nerdy things about muskox
(15:12):
because like I said, I don'tknow a lot about them besides. So
to me, they look like a crossbetween a bison and a cow. Is that
fair to say? No. Okay, so they are.
Would actually be most closelyrelated to goats.
Get out of here.
Yeah, yeah. So they're a hugearctic goat is the basic.
(15:36):
I feel like I now know why Ilove muskox, because I'm a goat lady.
I have goats right out my window.
So.
Yes.
Yeah. So they're, they're cooltaxonomy wise. Yeah, they're closely
closer to goats than cattleand bison for sure. We get the bison
thing a lot, but they are notclosely related to bison. So the
closest North American specieswould be the Rocky Mountain goat.
(16:00):
And then the closest overallspecies is a species of goat that
lives over in the mountains,all the way in the other side of
the world.
Siberia.
Yeah, yeah, that, that type ofarea. I, I would have to look it
up. It's because it alsochanges. There's like serious debate.
I swear it changes everycouple years, but, oh, it's the goral,
(16:23):
which is in. See what theylike to say. It's the talkin also.
And this is a species of goat.
Yes.
Okay.
I believe at the moment thegoral is considered the closest related
species and it is a goat thatlives in the Himalayas.
Very cool. Okay, so talk to usabout, you know, you've been at this
(16:46):
job now for a year, year and ahalf now. Talk to us about, like
when you first started andstarted working with these animals,
what was that like?
Yeah, so a big part of themuskox farm is that we are not only
sustainable, but also gentle.Gentle. Sustainable Kibi production
(17:07):
is kind of our M.O. and so wehave these muskox that are, like
I said, habituated, notdomesticated. And so they are trained
to interact with us the waythat we would prefer them to interact
with us. But at the end of theday, my biggest measure on health
is weekly weights. And the waythat I do that is I heard them on
(17:29):
foot to the barn to getweighed every week. And so they,
you know, they are, like wesaid, they're related to goats. But
my biggest has topped over1,000 pounds. Average is like 5 to
600 pounds. But that's, youknow, it's still a big animal. And
so I do play seatingarrangements. I have 75 acres and
(17:51):
about 30 pastures. And so I'mable to split them up into smaller
groups. And so my biggestgroup is about 12. But what that
looks like is I go out withone or two other people and I heard
them on foot to the barn. It'sa normal part of their day. Usually
we get them in the barn firsttime when they're about a week old
and then every week for theirwhole life. And so it's a very routine
(18:15):
thing for them. But they arestill muskox and they are still stubborn
and they are still freewilled, free choice animals. And
we're not going out there withcattle prods. We have ourselves and
that's it. And so coming froma background of zookeeping, you know,
I worked with muskox on aprotected contact situation. So that
(18:38):
means you're never stepping onthe other side of the fence with
them. It was pretty wild tojust kind of get thrown into this
situation where you're justlike, oh, you just trust. You know,
they are used to it. They knowwhat they're. But then, you know,
they all have very individualpersonalities. And so some of them
(18:59):
will, you know, bluff, chargeor do muskox things, normal muskox
behavior. And we just acceptit. You know, we're not aiming to
be rough with them ever. Andso it was pretty intimidating at
first, but then you just kindof get in the swing of it and they
(19:20):
know their job and you knowyour job and you hurt them like you
would anything else.
Like a normal goat.
Like a normal goat, yeah.
Who is many hundreds of poundsless than that musk.
Yes.
Yeah. Oh, my gosh. So, andlike you said, they all kind of,
I'm sure they all have theirtype of personalities and temperament
(19:43):
and the more that you workwith them, you're going to learn
that that's one that you don'tmess around with and then the other
one may be a little bit nicerof a muskog.
The biggest thing is that theyare a fiercely herd minded creature.
And so amongst their owngroup, they have their own hierarchy.
And so the biggest thing, youknow, they're in no situation other
(20:07):
than bulls and rut have I everhad one that's just like out to get
me. But it's more like you'reworking with, oh, that muskox is
running towards me becausethe, you know, top in this group
is up there being a jerk. Andso you're kind of juggling a herd
of animals that has its ownhierarchy amongst themselves and
(20:30):
accepting that their behavioris based off of everybody else's
behavior. And if everybodystarts running the wrong direction
Then there's not a lot you cando about that because it's already
started. It's very much like asnowball situation. If everybody
decides today is going to be agood day and it's going to be easy,
then it goes super easy. Butsometimes it doesn't.
(20:52):
Sometimes they wake up andchoose violence. Is they really do.
They really do. Yeah.
So what does a typical daylook like for you then?
As the herd manager,everything's very seasonal. So right
now we're getting into winter.I'm not doing much pasture rotation
anymore because everybody's intheir set winter pens. They have
(21:14):
hay feeders, they have heatedwater tanks. The day in the life
is first, get everybody in thebarn, get everybody weighed. I would
say, cumulatively, it takesaround four to six hours to get all
of the muskox weighed, butthat's usually spread out throughout
the week. And so in themorning you come in, you have to
(21:35):
wait till it's daylightbecause now we're in winter and the
sun doesn't come out till 8:30or 9 right now. And herd whatever
groups left I have to weighand then go around and feed everybody,
make sure that everybody haswater. And then right now I have
four calves that were bornlast spring. And so a lot of my day
(21:58):
is spent socializing with themand making sure that they have a
good foundation in theirroutine of, you know, if they grow
up knowing that herding andweighing and all of that is just
a normal thing, that then it'sjust much easier for their entire
life. So a lot of my day isspent socializing with them, and
(22:19):
then everything is just aproject. There is so many miles of
fencing on this property, andI think I could spend every day,
all day fixing fence, and Iwould still be fixing fence at the
end of the day.
So I'm curious when you'retalking about fencing. So on a typical
(22:41):
little goat, fencing isbasically like a challenge for them
of how can I get out of thisfencing? Is that similar to a muskox?
I would say, you know, we havepretty big pastures, and so generally
they are pretty content aslong as there's not. Like I said
before, I. I place seedingcharts. I put animals together so
(23:04):
that hopefully they get alongso that there's not much strife amongst
their little herd. Usuallythey don't have much pushing them
to want to get out thefencing, but, you know, their long
hair makes them itchy andthey're growing here all the time.
And so they're just like, ifthey're not playing with fence that
in turn breaks it. Thenthey're rubbing on it and that breaks
(23:26):
it. We use posts and then justwire fencing that we stretch so it's
tight at the beginning atleast. And then they run into it
or hit it or rub on it to itchand everything that they do just
breaks it.
Yep, I know the feeling.
(23:47):
It's a constant problem.
Yeah. I've always said if youwant good goats, then you have to
have good fence. Because ifyou don't have a good fence, you
don't have a good goat. So youalso need good fence for a muskox.
Yes. So, yeah, usually if it'slike nice and new, they don't generally
mess with it. But as soon asit starts making noise, it's fun.
(24:07):
And then they play with it and then.
Love that. Love that for them,not for you. So you had mentioned,
obviously you're going intothe winter season. So they're in
their winter pens, they'rebeing fed hay. How long do they typically
stay out on pasture for?
I mean, they're out on pastureall the time, 24, 7. In the summer.
(24:28):
I have like two or three timesthe amount of pastures that I would
need for my groups. And so I'mable to do a really nice rotation
to make sure grass is gettingeaten down evenly. In the winter,
everybody just stays in onepen and I bring them hay out to them.
They like the cold. They wouldlike nothing more than it to be snowing
(24:51):
and windy and all of thethings that we hate, but they are
perfectly happy out there.
Yeah, well, it's that doublecoat. Right. It's keeping them. I
have a Bernese mountain dogwho would also love it to be winter
all of the time because ofthat double coat. So how long for
growing season? I guess forgrasses and stuff. How long are they
(25:12):
able to eat the grass versusbeing fed hay?
So our winter is longer thanmost places. So we are usually feeding
hay around the end ofSeptember to middle of May, beginning
of May. You know, it's hardbecause I do have a limited amount
of space. They do have to kindof like, there's no. Once we hit
(25:33):
springtime, there's not reallyany pastures that I could completely,
like, leave them out of to letthe grass grow. And so it's kind
of like a slow taper off ofhay because they're on the grass
that's trying to grow as it'sgrowing. So it's kind of a balance
of trying to give them accessto fresh grass because that's what
(25:54):
they want to be eating eventhough we don't really want them
to be eating it as it's growing.
Right. For sure. You hadmentioned, obviously Alaskan agriculture
is a whole new beast that Icould not even imagine to begin to
deal with. But talking abouthay and feed and all of these things,
(26:14):
where are you getting the hayto feed the muskox?
(27:38):
So we've been pretty fortunatein our history that there is a hay
field that had been beinghayed right now next to us that we
generally would get all of ourhay right over there. The farmer
would pick up the hay baleswith the baler truck and drive right
over. Hay is obviously kind ofa beast a in the world, but also
(28:00):
in making like Alaska weather,we've had a really good streak of
that. Our lovely hay farmer isretiring and I believe that land
is being sold and it's notunder a farmland protection. So honestly
we're kind of, we're hopingthat we will continue to get local
hay, but we're kind of lookinglike we're. We might have to start
(28:24):
take getting outside hay andgrain. We have a wonderful grain
mill in Anchorage, Alaska.Mill and feed. They supply all kinds
of grain to all of the, youknow, like the Alaska Zoo and the
Alaska Wildlife Conservationcenter and all of the specialty grain
for these animals that areoutside of the realm of normal. Horses,
(28:49):
pigs and goats. So I actuallyhave a muskox ration that I get from
Alaska Meal and Feed. Theformula was made by the Large Animal
Research Station in Fairbanks.So that is a research station in
Fairbanks that has a herd ofresearch animals. I believe right
(29:11):
now they have musk ox andcaribou. And so we work closely together
to try to keep everybody ashealthy as possible. We're actually
looking at redoing kind oftheir formulation right now. But
basically we act as if theforage for our animals is either
(29:31):
grass in the summer or hay inthe winter. And then the grain is
just a mineral, vitamin,mineral supplement essentially. So
we're expecting that ourmuskox are eating their forage as
the bulk of their diet andthen our grain is just a vitamin,
mineral supplement to kind offill in the gaps where our forage
(29:53):
differs from where they wouldnaturally be foraging.
I'm curious, as the herdmanager, obviously you're weighing
them so you're getting thathands on with them weekly to see
the weight of them. For you tosee a muskox like what to you tells
you that you have a healthylooking animal versus maybe somebody
(30:15):
that needs a little help, honestly.
They are Incredibly stoicanimals. And they will not show you
that there is something wrongwith them until they are keeling
over. So that can be kind ofdifficult. Weight on the scale is
always my number one. Go to.Their coat kind of changes color
when they're either gettingsickly or just deficient in the vitamins
(30:40):
and minerals that they need.Copper is an incredibly important
source for muskoxspecifically. And you can always
kind of tell that they'regetting deficient because they're.
They're supposed to be nice,usually dark color. The Canadian
muskox usually are dark allover. And the Greenland muskox have
(31:02):
kind of just a white freckledface a little bit more. But generally,
even between Canadian andGreenland, like a nice dark brown
color along their sides anddown their legs should be what you're.
You're hoping for. A nice,healthy muskox is going to be. Have
a rich, dark brown color. Andso you can kind of tell when they're
(31:23):
not doing as well, if theircoat lightens in color or you can
almost kind of see it in theirhooves that they'll get frail and
brittle. But I would say thenumber one way that I can tell if
somebody's not doing well isdefinitely behavior is a huge thing.
They love their mineralpellet. And so the second anybody
(31:46):
doesn't want that, it's like,okay, what's happening with you?
But then outside of. Outsideof behavior, weight is totally the
first indication of health forat least my herd.
Okay, I want to talk aboutbaby muskox first of all. What do
they call them?
Their calves.
Their calves. Okay, so what isthe gestational period for a Muskox?
(32:11):
It is 244 days, depending onwho you talk to. Everybody there
is a man that swears, but itis specifically 244 days on the dot.
So that puts you at aroundeight months. So we breed intentionally
here, as you should on a bigfarm. And so we put our muskox into
(32:32):
harems. So that's one bullwith several ladies around the beginning
of August, and then they comeout the beginning of October. And
so that gives you two goodmonths of interaction with the bulls.
And then we separate them forthe rest of the year. And so then
the moms all live together sothat I can watch them really closely.
(32:52):
And then we just hope and prayfor babies in April, May. There are
ways to tell if a muskox ispregnant, most of which are really
either too expensive or tooinvasive to be good consistent options.
So really our way of testingif they are pregnant is you have
(33:14):
a calf on the ground and thatnow, now we know that you were pregnant.
It worked. So about eightmonths, the 244 days. Are Muskox
typically having a single calfor are you getting twins or multiple?
Twins are very, very rare. Ithas happened, but it almost never
(33:35):
happens. I don't believe thatwe have ever had. We've either only
had one set of twins or havenever. And it's usually not a great
situation for either of thecalves. Usually you'd have to bottle
raise them because they just,just don't make enough milk for two
babies typically.
How big are the babies?
(33:55):
So we like to say 12 to 15pounds. But then again, because we
kind of err on the side ofgentle and cautious, we usually are
not getting weights on themuntil they're at least three days
old, sometimes even just aweek old. And so we've seen babies
as big as £27 at birth. But welike to say that 12 to 15 is average.
(34:22):
Well, and giving them thattime, like you said, to bond and
not stress out the mother andall of those things. Probably a really
good thing when you are gentlywalking up to them and saying, please
come to the scale for me.Thank you.
Basically the worst thing thatcould happen, not the, I mean the
worst thing that could happenis a baby doesn't survive. But the
(34:45):
second worst thing that couldhappen is having a bottle baby. We
really, really, really wantmom to be able to raise the calf.
And so we really try not tomess with them much at all for the
first like three days to a week.
So you're saying it would bethe worst thing to have a bottle
baby muskox. And I'm thinkinglike that would be really cute to
(35:06):
feed a muskox baby.
Yes, it is really, reallycute. You know, I raised three musk
ox calves at the Alaska Zoothat were orphaned from the wild
and they are adorable and itis delightful. They usually love
hanging out with people whenthey've become accustomed to having
bottles and that kind ofthing. Problem is then you grow up
(35:29):
with a muskox that doesn'trespect boundaries and that can be
a huge, huge problem. So our,we always want mom to be raising
their own calf. And then onceweaning happens, we can kind of get
in there and really socialize.But at no point are we just petting
for fun. We are doingeverything in the interest of what's
(35:52):
best for the calf and its longlifetime success, basically.
So we talked about, obviouslysome uses for a muskox would be for
fiber and their hair beingused traditionally. Can you share
with us what you know abouttraditionally? What is a muskox used
(36:14):
for?
Well, I mean, they arecertainly. So they're protected to
a certain extent by the stateof Alaska because they went extinct.
But there is a certain numberof hunting permits that do happen
and so people do. I mean, it'san incredible trophy. You know, muskox
are pretty cool, but also theyare used for subsistence. You know,
(36:37):
they have quite a bit of meaton their bones. And so while we don't
ever eat any of the muskoxthat die on this farm because usually
they die old, but that isdefinitely something that happens
up here and is a big part ofkind of the culture of muskox. You
know, there are so few huntingpermits that it is a pretty coveted
(37:01):
one. So they can certainly beeaten and people love it. I guess.
I've never eaten muskox, butthat was.
Going to be my question. Haveyou ever eaten a muskox before?
No, I've never tried it. I.There are people that say that it's
the best and there's the,there's people that say it was terrible.
So I'm curious because, so Imyself, I've been raising goats since2017
(37:27):
and I've raised meat goats.I've never eaten one of my goats
and I've never eaten a goatbefore. But I know that, you know,
it has a certain taste and itneeds to be cooked a certain way
to taste well. So I'm assuminga muskox is probably similar in the
low and slow. We'll have tolook up muskox recipes, right?
(37:49):
I mean, there are people thatsay that it is like the best thing
ever and it's like they thinkthat we're crazy that we don't eat
them. And the reality is theyare not a good option for meat animals
because a, they breakeverything and they grow so slowly.
So they are reaching maturityat like, not maturity but like full
(38:13):
grown body wise, weight wiseat like 4 or 5. And so that in terms
of like just growing for meatis not very sustainable. And they're
incredibly difficult to dealwith. And so it's just not in any
way profitable. And so the,the hair is the way to go for sure.
(38:34):
Yeah. So tell us more aboutthe hair. Like you had said, you
brush these animals to get theundercoat from them. How do you brush
a muskox?
They come into the barn, intothe same space every time. It's a
scale on a squeeze chute andso they become pretty accustomed
(38:55):
to standing in there. They gettreats in there. We always want it
to be a positive experience.Like I said, they all have very individual
personalities and some, youknow, like it or tolerate it better
than others. And so Idefinitely have ones that I can't
just comb. And so we just haveto respect that. We, you know, at
(39:15):
the core of the Muskox farm,we are gentle and sustainable. So
I would say out of my 75, Iprobably have 15 that I can't just
comb in the squeeze chute. Andso the other 65 I can just bring
into the place that I weighthem. And you kind of have to protect
your arms and be ready foranything. But generally they come
(39:39):
into the stanchion, they havesomebody solely there just to feed
them treats, their mineralpellet that they are obsessed with.
While one or two people are oneither side hand combing the fiber
from the guard hair. So we useactually afro picks, so it's metal
toothed combs and just kind ofget it out from the guard hair and
(40:03):
that's how you do it.
So with them, you're obviouslyweighing them every week and bringing
them in. Are you brushing themevery week for the ones that let
you?
No. So they actually, theyjust shed one time a year. So they
grow their hair all winter.It's what keeps them so incredibly
warm and happy in the terriblecold winter. And then usually around
(40:24):
the beginning or the middle ofApril, everybody starts to shed.
And really trying to brushthem outside of that season is A,
it's just going to be pullingon their hair and they're not going
to like it and B, it, I mean,it takes forever. So like I said
before, there is a certainnumber of kibiut products that come
(40:45):
from hunters that comb thekibiut out of like a hunted cape.
That takes so much time. Andit is very difficult to get all of
that hair because it's notmeant to be leaving yet. So it's
kind of like a switch turnsand all of a sudden the hair is coming
off and I just have to time itright that I have them in the barn
(41:08):
when they're shedding and getit off of them before it hits the
ground.
So what are you doing? I wantto say this right. Is it kibute that
you're getting off of them,their hair? That's called kibiut.
Yes. So we like to say yougive a hoot about qiviut is the way
that we explain it to thehundreds of children that come for
(41:30):
their school.
Groups and they'll neverforget that.
Kibiute.
Kibiute, yes. So typically,like you said, that there's a lot
of, I guess, crafters orpeople for fiber art to use it. I
noticed on the website you dohave some of it for. What is it called?
A ball of kibiut. Like. Like aball of yarn, but it's kibiut.
(41:51):
Yeah. So basically we send ourraw fiber out to be processed in
a huge bunch usually everythree years. It goes actually down
to Peru, where there is a guythat specializes in special quality
fiber. And so basically itgets to him and he does all of the
(42:12):
magical things that turns theraw fiber into yarn, dyes, some of
it. And they do, like, machineknitting there. And so there are
certain garments that we getjust like fully produced garments
back from him. And then someof it, we have local artists up here
(42:33):
that take the raw, undyed yarnand they do magical dyeing and knitting
and all of the wonderfulthings. So we have basically a section
of things that are knitted bythe guy that processes the fiber
and then specialty items thatare. We get the yarn from Peru and
(42:58):
then it gets turned intowonderful items by local artists
up here.
And I'm assuming. Well, maybeI shouldn't assume this. Is it similar
to wool, then, like thefeeling of it, or what are the differences
that you can tell between it?
The biggest difference is thatqiviut is very, very fine and very
(43:20):
soft. So it can be consideredsimilar to wool, but it's more of
a lace weight, if that makessense. So it's a very fine fiber.
So they used to like to goaround and say that Qiviut was eight
times warmer and softer andeverything than wool. And so that
(43:40):
was kind of the selling point.One of the research projects that
we've been a part of isactually deep that a little bit.
So that is no longer true.It's not eight times. But basically
the deal is that it is aswarm, if not warmer than wool, but
it is very fine and very, verysoft. And so it's, you know, it's
(44:01):
not going to be good forthings like big sweaters and, you
know, the things that youwould think for wool, but more just
like very fine, soft garmentthat is incredibly warm.
Also, do you have any clothingitems or pieces made out of kivi
that you have?
(44:22):
I don't actually. That makesme terrible that I'm the muskox farmer
that doesn't have any. I don'tactually own. My brother bought a
hat when I first started, andit is his favorite thing in the whole
world. He is like a trapperand does all kinds of wild things
(44:43):
in the middle of nowhere,Alaska. And he is always wearing
his Qibiut hat. So definitelyI see the utility.
Yeah.
As well as how pretty thethings that can be made out of it.
Yeah, very cool. Researchproject wise, what kind of research
is being done at your farmthat you can share with us?
(45:04):
So it's actually kind of acrazy project. We are actually working
with the Space Force and AirForce. The Air Force research lab
is essentially doing a projectresearching kiviut as a gear option.
Not necessarily to makegarments for the military out of
(45:26):
qiviut, but potentially tomake synthetic Qiviut because it
is so fine. And so we havesent Qiviut samples, we've sent guard
hair samples, we've sent skinbiopsy punches so that they can look
at not only the fiber itself,but the follicles. And yeah, they're
(45:46):
doing all kinds of reallyincredible work right now with a
lot of the samples that I takeand send to them.
Yeah, that's so neat. And I'm.I'm excited to see what they come
up with.
Yeah, it's very exciting. LikeI said, very little research is done
on muskox and very little isknown about muskox. And so anything
(46:07):
that we are able to learnabout them is always really cool.
And any way that I cancontribute to that is always really
exciting. I love that side ofthis job. We also work with the geneticist
at Cornell University that hasyears and years and years of DNA
samples from our muskox thatshe's doing all kinds of really cool
(46:28):
things with. So I love thatside of this job, for sure.
Yeah, very cool. I want to askyou, you know, just a simple question.
What do you think is yourfavorite thing about muskox and working
with them?
Oh, man.
So many things.
Yeah, so many things.Honestly, I think probably. I love
that I am probably the onlyperson that has a title like this.
(46:52):
You know, there's very fewplaces that have muskox, let alone
this many of them. This is, Imean, it's for sure the largest captive
herd. And so I really lovethat I just wake up every day and
I come out and I get to seejust a huge array of all of the same
(47:13):
species. You know, I. I workedin more than one zoo, and it was
always very exciting to do,you know, anything that would benefit
the. The species of whateveranimal I was working with. But to
have, like, direct impact onwhat we've known and what we know
about Muskox is reallyexciting to me. So having access
(47:36):
to this large of a herd for meis just really cool. And to see the,
like I said, the huge array ofpersonality amongst 75 animals is
just. It's huge. When I firststarted, I remember the. The previous
herd manager would be able tojust walk out into whatever, you
(47:59):
know, up to whatever pastureand be able to almost pick out face
by face from very far awaywho's who. And I thought that was
crazy. I was like, there's 75of the same species and you're telling
me that you can pickindividual faces, but now I'm at
that place that I couldprobably see any one of my muskox
(48:20):
from, you know, all the way inthe back of the pasture, and I could
tell you almost certainlywhich one is which. And I think that's
pretty cool.
That's very cool.
You know, I have so many ofthem and they're all still so individual.
That's amazing. I love that.Alyssa, it has been an absolute pleasure
(48:42):
getting to talk to you allabout Muskox and, you know, for answering
an email to a stranger on theInternet saying, hey, will you come
talk about muskox with me?Like, you did great.
Thanks. Thank you.
For the listeners who wouldlike to connect with you and the
farm, where can they find moreinformation about the Muskox farm?
(49:05):
The muskox farm.org I'm prettysure it's just themuskoxfarm.org
is our home base and that's.That's everything. We have hundreds
and thousands of visitors thatcome to see us every year, and it's
always. People always leaveknowing a lot more about muskox than
they came knowing. And so,yeah, come visit the Muskox Farm.
(49:29):
It's a great place.
We are also all leaving hereknowing much more about muskox than
we did when we started. So youdid great. Thank you so much, Alyssa.
We'll put those links in theshow notes so people can find the
organization and connect withyou and come and see what these big
woolly goats look like.
Yeah. Heck, yeah.
(49:50):
Thank you again so much forsharing your story with us. I appreciate
it.
Thank you.
Thanks for listening to thethe Rural Woman Podcast. The Rural
Woman Podcast is more thanjust a podcast. We are a community.
A huge thank you to the RuralWoman Podcast team. Audio editor
(50:12):
Max Hofer. A special thanks toour Patreon executive producers,
Sarah Riedner from Happinessby the Acre and Carrie Munven from
Blaestone Farms. To learn howyou can become a Patreon Executive
Producer, producer, or otherways to financially support the show.
Head on over towildrosefarmer.com to learn more.
(50:34):
Be sure to hit the Follow orSubscribe button wherever you listen
to the podcast to get thelatest episodes directly on your
playlist. And if you areloving the show, please be sure to
leave a rating and review onApple Podcast or any other platform
that accepts ratings andreviews. You can connect with us
on social media, the WorldWoman Podcast, and with me, wildrosefarmer.
(51:00):
One of the best ways you cansupport the show is by sharing it.
Send this episode to a friendor share on your social media let's
strengthen and amplify thevoices of women in agriculture together.
Until next time, my friend,Keep sharing your story.
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