67 - Tattoo Artist Josh Arment

The famed Aloha Monkey tattoo shop is hitting a quarter century, so we sat down with shop owner and tattoo artist Josh Arment to celebrate. As an Illinois native, Josh shares the enigmatic path that led to the buzzing beacon of tattoo parlors. His story is a vivid mural of punk rock, hip-hop, and skateboarding, all underpinned by profound family influences—like the lore of his grandfather's WWII tattoos. The episode is a tapestry of an artist's formative years, the meticulous graft of apprenticeships, and the sage wisdom of industry veterans. It's about embracing the culture, the music, and the ink-stained journey of turning a lifelong passion into mastery.

But what's a master without disciples? The podcast wraps with an ode to the time-honored tradition of mentorship in the world of tattooing. Josh recounts how the legacy of Sailor Jerry along with the teachings of Danise Wolf and Mike Malone didn't just shape his art—they shaped his life. Through laughter and a few of Matt's quirky trivia moments, we explore the profound connection between the artist, their craft, and the canvas of skin they transform. As always, brought to you by Sailor Jerry!

https://www.instagram.com/josharment/
https://www.instagram.com/thealohamonkey/
https://sailorjerry.com

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Yeah, what's up, josh ?
How are you man?

Speaker 2 (00:02):
Good, long time no see.

Speaker 1 (00:04):
It's been.
What Warped Tour?
Is that 2008?
2009?

Speaker 2 (00:07):
2008.
2008.
It's been a minute and Iremember doing what hand poke
tattoos in Cleveland.

Speaker 1 (00:17):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (00:17):
Underneath the bridge on the cinder blocks.

Speaker 1 (00:20):
Yeah, that's right.
That's right.
Yeah, man, those did.
That was the Warped Tour.
I mean was awesome.
Of course, for us though it was.
I mean it was just for mostbands it's just a big party, but
we had so many great friends onthat thing and so many great
memories and I always laughtalking about it, because

(00:41):
usually for a band, you know thebest part of your day is
supposed to be when you playlive, right, you know and for us
, for us on that tour.
Uh, like the crowds, just theyjust hated us because we were
just, we weren't like a screamoband, we weren't like you know,
we just didn't quite fit intothat warped thing.

Speaker 2 (01:00):
Yeah, and so for that version of warped tour yeah,
for that version of warped tour.

Speaker 1 (01:04):
Yeah, exactly so you know it was that version of warp
tour.
Yeah, exactly so you know.
It was always like the planewas like the worst.
It was the worst part of theday that's funny yeah, man, yeah
well, it's good to see yourface.
Uh, thank you so much for beinga guest here on the sailor
jerry podcast.
Uh, we are stoked to have you.

(01:25):
First and foremost,congratulations on the upcoming
25th anniversary of the alohamonkey tattoo shop.
Uh, that's a milestone, youknow so yeah, we're gonna get
into that.
We're gonna get in to all of thehistory and all that stuff.
Uh, but first and foremost,how's the party planning going?
How's the house?
How are things shaping up?

Speaker 2 (01:46):
it's good.
We had a 20-year event so the25th.
You know we learned from our20-year what worked, what didn't
, what was successful, and so weare just doing it.
Uh, with that plus some, sowe're excited at our 20-year.
We had roughly 20 artists, um,including, you know, that
includes our staff that we havehere.
We have seven permanent guysand so this year we're having 25

(02:13):
and, yeah, it just keepsgetting better.
The party plan and I have agreat, great group of people.
My fiance, alicia, plans mostof this stuff and, yeah, it's
going to be good, really good.

Speaker 1 (02:21):
Awesome, awesome, shout out Alicia for helping, uh
, helping get this set up toappreciate you.
Uh, do you have a live band forthe party?

Speaker 2 (02:29):
unfortunately we don't.
That's a difficult one in ourparking lot.
Um, although we do own astandalone building, we don't
have a band or really any livemusic.
Last, at our 20 year, we justhad a live like, uh, acoustical,
kind of like some old-timersjust playing acoustic jams.
But no, we don't have a band,and that's the one thing we're
missing that's what the 30 yearis all about.

Speaker 1 (02:51):
Live band, I'm just saying we should have no
mariachi bronx dude dude, butwe're writing a new record right
now, man, we're writing a newrecord right now.
I'm uh, I'm in the office, I'min the home studio just working
on stuff, trying to record demosduring the day and write lyrics
at night.

Speaker 2 (03:08):
Yeah, we have taco trucks and we would love to see
something like that happen.
Let's plan that.

Speaker 1 (03:13):
Hell yeah, man, hell yeah.
Well, we got five years, sothere's no excuse why we can't
get it done.
No, awesome, man.
Well, before we go into thehistory of the shop, I want to
give our listeners your history,the history of you.
I want to kind of go into,maybe tell the story of your

(03:37):
life, going up until the pointwhere you get to meeting Mike
Malone, getting in touch withthe shop and that kind of takes
over.
So where did you grow up?
Where did kind of art andtattooing kind of enter the
picture for you?

Speaker 2 (03:54):
Well, I mean, I grew up in a small town in central
Illinois.
It's a town called Danville,Illinois.
It's near Champaign-Urbana,right off I-70.
In those small communities itwasn't a tiny town, I mean
35,000 people, but I mean it wasin the center of Illinois, so
there wasn't a lot there.
There was the University ofIllinois, which is in Champaign,
but that was 30 minutes away.

(04:19):
So as a kid it was a great townto grow up in because you could
ride your bicycle everywhere.
You know, eventually, when yougot into motorized things, you
could, you know, scream yourfour wheeler down city streets
and it was just, it was a goodtime to grow up in.
Um, and as a kid in those smalltowns, you know, I mean I did
the sports, I did all that, butthat really wasn't my thing.
I was always just kind of, youknow, like all of us a little
bit different, Right yeah, andin those small communities that

(04:42):
wasn't really celebrated orthere wasn't a place for that.
I mean it was like, basically,you know, what do you mean?
You don't want to play football, you know, like they didn't get
that.
And so my grandfather was an oldWorld War II aircraft carrier
guy, Navy man, and he had sometattoos, of which some of them

(05:02):
were from Honolulu and so Iwould see he had like the number
one man spots covered.
You know what I mean?
Yeah and uh, he died when I wasa young, young boy, um, from
cancer.
But I would like sit on top ofhim and like look at his tats
and like put markers around histats and kind of draw on him,
cause he was just sitting theredying.
But he was real cool as far asletting me just kind of doodle

(05:24):
on him.
But those were my first,probably, inspirations of
tattoos.
And then in that smallcommunity we had like a biker
shop, you know, that had like abow in the window and the kids
would ride their bicycles by itand fuck with the boa
constrictor and it was like achopper shop, slash tat shop.

Speaker 1 (05:42):
Classic snake in the window.

Speaker 2 (05:44):
Exactly, shop slash tat shop classic snake in the
window exactly, and some of myuh.
And yet in illinois at thattime and pretty much up until
2000s, you had to be 21 to gettattooed.
So somehow in that small townsome of my 15 year old friends
were getting tattooed and Iwould just remember like touch,
I couldn't believe that itwouldn't come off because they

(06:05):
had youthful skin.
I mean, I had seen old man skinwith them, but they had
youthful skin and it was justcrazy to like see, I think, one
of my friends.
The first thing he got was likethe graphics long skull, the
joker oh, dude, I was just onebay looking for an old graphic
shirt unless you got me one dude.
That logo is timeless.
Funny story.

(06:27):
I wore it to my mechanicbuddy's shop because he was
putting a exhaust on my truckand on his lift he had that
sticker and the kid that washelping me was like, and I had
the shirt on, and the old manwas like, oh my God, and the
kid's like he didn't get it.
He didn't know what we werelooking at.
So rewind to the chopper shop.
So apparently some of myfriends were getting these and

(06:48):
some of my friends were a littlebit older than me and they were
a little bit more outlaw, youknow, ditching school and going
to get tattooed, and so I don'tknow how they got it, because it
wasn't like their parents weredown with it.
But one of them had this skull,this joker, this graphic skull.
And then another one had thisNative American Indian, Anthony
Kiedis had that.
That was like his first and somy friend got one, anyway.

(07:19):
So being an oddball in a smalltown, not being interested in
football, led me to morecreative outlets.
I mean, once I got out ofmotorized things of that age of
my life I started to draw on.
The music became a big part ofit, and it wasn't the music that
the people that were playingfootball were listening to.
It was like a little bittougher music and, you know, a
little bit on the edge music,and what that led to was tattoos
and these guys had tattoos.

(07:40):
You know the early bands thatyou know, I mean Henry Rollins
was doused in tattoos.
Of course, more mainstream, theRed Hot Chili Peppers were
doused, and they were doused ingood tattoos.
And even earlier like the crewgot tattooed by Greg James and
shit.
I mean they had nice stuff.
And so back then bands had likegreat tattoos.

(08:02):
You know they weren't all postMalone out with just stickers on
their face or handbook shit,they had artists that were doing
them.
So that was inspiring.
Then I got up to the Chicagolandarea, about 30 minutes outside
the city.
My parents got divorced andthen my mom remarried and moved
up there, and then my momremarried and moved up there and

(08:26):
so that entered high school andthen we were closer to a city.
So that means closer to biggerbands, closer to more music, and
then then I could see thesepeople and then in the city you
got to see, you know, realtattoo shops and more people
that had tattoos and more ofthat cutting edge culture that
was creeping in.
I think I was drawn more topunk rock.
I liked the Lookout bands andEpitaph and all that.

(08:49):
Oh yeah, and of course I alwaysdabbled.
I mean 92 was the best year ofhip-hop, so I always had that on
my side.

Speaker 1 (08:56):
Yeah, that's the early 90s.
I mean you're talking punk,you're talking hip-hop.
That is a golden era.

Speaker 2 (09:02):
Yes, and that is a golden era.
Yes, and so that was my grooming.
And you know, then when I gotup there I was a little bit more
into skateboarding.
I mean, there was, you know,pavement everywhere in the town
I grew up in.
There was gravels that led moreto motorized sports,
four-wheelers and dirt bikes.
But then you get up to the cityand it's like, oh, you can
skate on this.
You can't skate on thesedriveways in a small town with

(09:23):
gravel all over the place, youknow, yeah, so then I was going
out and skateboarding and a lotof those people had tattoos.
And then you see these skatersthat start having tattoos.
And, yeah, then I just startedto like pick up the tat rag
magazines and look around atthem.
And you know, there's no chanceI was going to get tattooed.
You had to be 21 in my town and, yeah, I would just pick up the

(09:43):
tattoo magazines and to me thatwas like another at that time.
Tattoo magazines would exposean artist in the middle of them,
and so you would learn aboutthese people and you were like,
damn, this can be done withtattoos.
I mean these were like rockstars, these were like it was
like band stuff to me.
I mean, they were as elevatedas that to me.

(10:04):
Then I just started to likefind out who these people were
and like then I would get allthe issues and see that their
pictures were then in the back,smaller pictures of them, and so
I was starting to like collectlittle miniature portfolios of
these dudes stuff and seeing whothe hitters were.
You know, yeah, you know, whentwo, two, two and you know when
222 came out, I was just blownaway that such an epic shop was

(10:25):
there.
I mean, I didn't even knowabout Ed Hardy or anything.
I knew about the guys that weretrying to be the Ed Hardys and
so, yeah, then I went to schoolfor art.
I couldn't make it to an artschool because I didn't have any
foreign language, but I got toa college and just took art
classes and that kind ofdisrupted me a bit because I was

(10:53):
like being taughttwo-dimensional drawing by a
jewelry major.
I was like, what are youteaching?
Like that's when I you know.
And then I'm getting arthistory from like somebody that
is like a ceramics major and I'mlike, wait a second, like we're
learning about art history andthe way that they're telling you
in art history is this dudelearned from this dude.
He copied this guy's style andthen he became his own, after
duplicating this master style.
I mean, everybody was doing it.
Pollock could do real painting,like real articulate, realistic

(11:17):
painting.
He chose to do that, but hecould paint like that.
So I mean, everybody had amaster that they studied under.
And yet in school they weren'tpushing that.
They were like oh, you knowyour own creativity.
It was like so weird and Idon't know.
I don't know what it was.
It was just definitely not theway that they were showing you

(11:38):
others had learned.

Speaker 1 (11:39):
Yeah, it's kind of strange, right, because it's
like, yeah, I noticed that youknow no-transcript like you're

(12:15):
saying.
It's like, and that's a bigpart that's kind of overlooked.
And you know, I know in, youknow, in music world, tattooing
world, you know, having a mentorhaving, even if it's not
someone physically looking overyou and teaching you an
instrument or how to tattoo,just the idea of looking at the
people who have come before youand for inspiration and how that

(12:37):
, what their process was and howyou can apply it to yourself,
is a big thing.
And it's not always kind of,you know, it's not always taught
that way.

Speaker 2 (12:46):
And the schools definitely weren't teaching that
.
Like you said, it's about whatcame before you and the schools
were basically like later yearslater, when I talked to Ed Hardy
, he was like those places justteach you how to use the medium,
they don't teach you anythingelse.
So you can.
You know cause?
I learned more about drawingand art in tattooing?
Because of the mentorship,because of studying a style,
because of the discipline andthe rigidity of it, and the

(13:10):
schools just didn't have that.
So they wanted you to go into,like graphic design and computer
arts.
I didn't want that.
I wanted to learn, likeleonardo learned, you know, or
michelangelo from a master, andso I just bailed on that and I
picked up getting tattooed.
I spent the second year of mycollege time.
I only got two years of collegein me, but I spent the second

(13:32):
year down in Florida, in WestPalm Beach, florida North Palm,
a little north of that, andthere was this tattoo shop in
Lake Worth called Louie Lambie'sTattoo Paradise and so I'd go
in there because you could be 18to get tattooed in florida, oh
yeah yeah and I was just hittingthem up and, uh, I got tattooed
there by this guy, kevinbuckstrip, and he was really

(13:53):
great.
He took walk-ins but was alsoexperimenting with custom stuff
and I started to see how atattoo shop worked and, um, um,
how these guys were learning.
They happened to have anapprentice at the time and I got
tattooed.
And then, uh, I was living withmy friend, matt, who was in
bands and, like the monstertrucks and some other bands,

(14:14):
vacation Bible school, but hewas in these bands in Chicago
and he went down to Florida,wasn't really playing music, and
so we were drawing a lot moretogether.
And, um, I was like, dude,i'm'm just gonna pick up one of
these tattoo magazine, uh,spalding rigs and we'll save
money on tats so I picked up aspalding rig.
After we just got professionalwork done right, I pick up.
I was like I'll sleeve your legout, dude, it'll be fine I got

(14:37):
you yeah so I have the huckspalding how to tattoo a to Z on
his lap as I'm in my livingroom with like garbage bags over
the lazy boy and tattooing hisleg.
And when, when I got this thing, it had like a six flat to
color with and a tiny threeneedle liner that came with it.

(14:58):
And you know, seven hours intothis outline, I was like this is
not how we're getting tattooed,dude, this is not how they're
doing us Like there's a missinglink.
And so he's like got the bookupside down in his lap.
He's like I don't think that.
He's like flipping the page.
He's like I think you have todo this.
I didn't even read the book, Ijust like dove in and I knew

(15:20):
something was wrong.
And, and I knew something waswrong.
And so, anyway, I ended upgoing back to Louie's and they
wouldn't give me anapprenticeship.
They already had an apprentice.
And so I found that apprenticeat a bridge, like those lift
bridges in Florida over theintercoastal.
I saw a car at the lift bridge,like seven cars ahead of me.
So I just jumped out of my carand ran up to his car and I'm
like hey, man, I got thisaldingset up.

(15:42):
Can you come to the, to myhouse, and just show me how it
works, like, show me what I'mmissing.
And he's like no, absolutelynot.
I was like hey, man, like I'llbuy you a bottle of booze or
something.
And he's like, oh, okay, I'lldo it.
So it didn't take much to gethim to come back.
And he's like listen, man,these aren't even the needles.

(16:03):
This is like technically, likea Fisher price kit.
You know, you can't really domuch with this.
Um, I just wouldn't do it untilyou find somebody to teach you.
So I agreed to that.
I was like you know, you got it, man.
It's like I'm learning myself.
I can't tell you shit, I'm anapprentice, but you got to do
what I'm doing, you got to getan apprenticeship.
So, um, matt and I decidedthere was a bird productions

(16:25):
convention, uh, in 97, up in uh,atlanta.
And we found that in the backof one of these tattoo magazines
.
And so I said, matt, why don'twe go up there and check out
this convention?
And we were broke.
I was working at a restaurantlike bussing tables or waiting
tables or something, and he wasworking as a valet and he's like
all right, I'll drive up withyou.
I was like I'll get the hotelroom, we'll just make it happen.

(16:47):
He's hitting to be there man.
Guy Atchison, joe Capobianco,jack Rudy's going to be there.
We've got to check these dudesout.
Chris O'Donnell's going to bethere, cause Chris O, I was
stoked, all these hitters.
So we drive up there the newStrung Out album that just came
out.
So we were just jamming thatthe whole way up.

Speaker 1 (17:07):
What one Teenage Wasteland.

Speaker 2 (17:09):
Suburban Blues.

Speaker 1 (17:10):
Yeah, that's a great album.

Speaker 2 (17:12):
It is so good.
And he had a lower form Sleeve,the lead singer of that band.
So we drove up there justcranking that the whole time and
we get there and we have ahotel room overlooking the floor
of the convention hall and I'mjust like peering out people.
I'm like, oh, look who it is,oh, that dude.

(17:33):
I was a total fanboy out, but Ihad these flyers that I'd made
with a drawing on it and I tookan eight and a half by 11 in
different colors and I had mydrawing printed on it in four
sections no-transcript, like dayone of the convention and one

(17:58):
of the only people I meanthere's three people that were
super kind.
Sean Anderson was cool.
He's like yo, this isn't reallyit, um, but in.
Joe Capobalco was cool.
He gave me the time of day, butJack Rudy grabs my arm and he's
like hey, kid, did you dropthis right here?
And he's a big intimidatingdude, you know, I mean he's
pretty thug.
So I was like uh, uh, yeah.

(18:19):
And he's like all right, man,this isn't how, this isn't how
this is done.
And he like gave me some time.
He's like you got to get anapprenticeship.
You got to find you're going toget so many no's.
You're going to get so manyno's, but when you get that, yes
, check to see that they'reworth that yes.

Speaker 1 (18:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (18:37):
That's good advice.
He's like it could be anybodythat says yes, but he goes.
You you already know, you knewme, you knew who all these
people are.
If you're knowing that already,don't settle for just somebody
teaching you.
And I was like all right.
So, um, yeah, that that wasreally cool advice.

(18:58):
And then we found out Matt andI were used to eating steaks on
Friday night back in our dirtyold apartment and we found out
these guys are all.
I asked the bellhop.
I was like where are these guysgoing tonight?
And he's like they're going toget steaks.
I was like, oh, I love steaks.
We're going to go.
And he's like they're going to aplace called Ruth Chris.
I'm like, oh yeah, that soundsgood.
I have no idea what this placeis, but we get in this thing and

(19:21):
we're in just white t-shirt andjeans.
We sit down at a table near thetattooers because I just wanted
to absorb whatever I could.
What are they talking about?
What do they do?
And Matt looks at the menu andhe's like there's absolutely.
I'm not buying anything.
I'm like you have to buysomething.

(19:43):
We're not, we're gonna getkicked out of here.
You can't.
You have to buy something.

Speaker 1 (19:45):
And he's like I can't afford this shit, josh I'm like
dude, you're gonna put whateveryou need to on a credit card
and go total broke so that weget to stay.

Speaker 2 (19:48):
Yeah, and he's like nope.
So this fool gets a salad and Iget, like mashed potatoes, a
freaking filet, a la carte bowlthing, just so that we can
remain there.
Anyway, we, we ended up eatingdinner, didn't learn any secrets
, but I did get.
Um.
I did get an idea from Jackthat I had to look for the right
thing.
So I eventually spent Christmaswith my parents, went down to

(20:08):
see uh at some shops in Chicago,but I was still too young to
even get tattooed in Chicago.
So I ended up at Jade dragonwith fat Joe and he wanted to
just charge me whatever.
He was going to ignore the lawand just charge me whatever.
I was like I don't have thatkind of ends.
And he was sitting therecounting money in front of me
and shit, and I don't have thatkind of money, dude.
So then my mom says thatthere's the shop that opened

(20:31):
outside the navy base, like 15minutes down the road from us.
Why don't you go check them out?
So I went down there and thefirst person I met with Keith
Underwood.
He was working, he was theapprentice, and I walked in
there and met Keith and Denise.
Wolf owned the shop and she hadbeen married to Wes Grimm
before and she had been marriedto Bob Oslin.

(20:52):
Bob Oslin taught Scott Harrisonand Guy Atchison at the same
time and had a real successfulshop down in Chicago.
And so Denise had clout.
She had an Ed Hardy tat.
Yeah, keith was cool but hedidn't want me around.
So I ended up getting tattooedby Denise and I had originally

(21:13):
back at that chopper shop when Iwas 17, my dad took me to get a
little four skull combo at thatMike's tattoo and chopper shop
in that small town, danville,and that guy was cool but I
wanted to add on to it and so Icouldn't afford to do it.
At that convention in atlanta,denise ended up adding some
skulls to it and instantly I'mlike yo, where do I buy an
autoclave?
And then I was like, never mind, never mind, hey, do you do

(21:34):
apprenticeships?
And she's like, oh boy,apprenticeships.
And she was like, oh boy, slowdown.
No, you can't buy an autoclave,and that's crazy.
And secondly, no, I'm notteaching you how to tattoo,
let's just do this.
Which is so funny because Iecho that all the time.
Now you know like these kidscome in, just like that, can I
get an apprenticeship?
So uh ends up I go back toflorida and uh, she ends up.

(21:58):
I go back to Florida and uh, sheends up getting pregnant and
calls me and says you know, hey,keith's going to go out on the
floor.
I need an apprentice to startcovering my bases for when I'm
going to be out.
Um, she had a very small shop.
She had a heavy Navy load thatcame through twice a month and
on the weekends and she's likeI'll teach you.

(22:19):
I was like, oh shit, all right,so finished that little bit of
schooling and went back up, gotmy associate's degree, went back
up there to chicagoland.
Keith was pissed that she wasbringing on another person.
He thought there wasn't enoughbusiness to go around.
And then, uh, classic keith.
And then, yeah, and then youknow he liked him pretty quickly

(22:42):
.
He liked having another youngperson around.
You know somebody that lookedup to him cause he was a little
older than me, somebody that wasinto the kind of the same music
, spend nights talking aboutthese tattoo icons that we were
learning about and tattooing,cause he knew more than I did
and I came in with an idea thatI was going to be the next Guy
Atchison.

(23:02):
I was going to break all thewalls of tattooing down and I
was going to be the new thing.
And the first day of work,denise hands me the American
Tattoo Master by Sailor Jerryand I read that thing front to
back and then read it again.
And then I came in and I waslike, oh, this he's, he's the
real deal, like the letters thathe was writing back and forth

(23:23):
to Ed.
You got to peer into his souland his mind and I was like this
is the real stuff.
And she's like, yeah, kid,that's what I'm saying.
So I ditched my idea of GuyAtchison and then Keith and I
just nerded out on Ed Hardy,mike Malone, sailor Jerry and
just learning as much as wecould.
And yeah, that was.
That was how I landed in there.

Speaker 1 (23:44):
One that's.
That's an incredible story, anincredible road.
Thank you for sharing that withus.
That's just old school and it'sawesome, man, and I know to a
certain extent it still happenstoday, but it really doesn't uh
and shout out to you know,behind every great tattoo artist
who's starting out, there'salways, you know at least three

(24:06):
or four, sometimes five or sixbuddies that are the practice
pads.
Yeah, for for you, for tryingto figure out what you're doing.
And that story cracked me upabout you and your buddy,
because I've got a tattoo on myneck right here from Luis Perez
when he was first starting out,a couple other ones on my body.

(24:27):
So sometimes it pays to be thepractice pad and it's always a
cool experience when you'rearound people who are learning,
and I mean like learning thebare essentials of tattooing.
It's a really cool, unique timeand I know it must have been
special for you, man.
So that's awesome.
And then you get to the pointwhere you know you got the
apprenticeship, you're inChicago, you and Keith to you

(25:02):
referenced sailor jerry.
We can go kind of back with thestory of aloha monkey and I want
to go back to.
You know, I want to go back tohonolulu.
Okay, because I want to go.
You know, you had, you hadjerry's shop and you had.
It was mike and ed that wentthere to visit him right, 72,
yeah, 72.
So they go, they go back andI'll let you tell this story
because you obviously know itbetter than I do.
But they go back, they learnfrom him.

(25:25):
And when, when Norman Collinsdies in 73, it was Mike who
takes over his shop, right.

Speaker 2 (25:32):
So Jerry obviously was light years ahead of
everyone that was doing it andI'd say everyone and people
could argue yeah, well, I mean,there was this guy and there was
this guy and he bit, you know,brooklyn Jolie, okay, okay, okay
Got it.
But we just talked abouteverybody has a reference,
everybody has a mentor.
This dude had the ability totake designs that were almost

(25:55):
100 years old and make littledistilled pieces of perfection.
I'm talking his ability topaint, his ability for hand, to
tool it not only on paper, andmake these designs actually have
symmetry.
Life, use a circle guide.
Have you know true balance, beclean.

(26:18):
Have you know true balance, beclean.
The skulls look like skulls,not like a melted ice cream cone
.
He did so much unpacking ofthese 100-year-old designs it
was almost like there's nomissing link.
It's just like there was thisstuff and then all of a sudden,
there's Sailor Jerry.

(26:38):
It's crazy, even his earlystuff.
And then all of a suddenthere's Sailor Jerry.
It's crazy, even his earlystuff.
He had such an eye for it.
That's just in one part of hislife, but his ability to distill
all these crap images that were100 years old and make them
perfect is unbelievable.
So Ed already had a career atHardy, albeit a very early

(27:02):
career.
He was already tattooing whenhe met Mike Malone.
And he met Mike Malone throughthis art show that Mike was
curating in a museum in New Yorkon tattooing, and so Mike was
the curator.
Now Mike wasn't tattooing, hewas a photographer, and so mike
was the curator.
Now mike wasn't tattooing, hewas a photographer, he was doing
some psychedelic like music,venue stuff, like that oil and

(27:23):
water, like psychedelic stuffthat would go big screen, like
with an overhead projector, andhe was like, uh, living in new
york and he ends up getting inwith this curator and he starts
curating this tap show.
He was, uh, he had ran acrosstom devito on the street and saw
this dude that had actualbeautiful tattoos, because Tom's
were from Huck Spaulding andHuck could tattoo his ass off

(27:46):
and he had real good tattoos andthat wasn't seen in New York at
the time.
So then Mike starts justphotographing him and spending
time around Tom.
And then he finds out about EdHardy and so he's curating this
show on tattooing and so hereaches out to Ed Hardy.
Well then it already says yougotta, we gotta reach out to
Jerry, he's the head of thewhole gang man.
And so Mike and Ed needed thistattoo thing, this uh art show

(28:14):
um, first one ever abouttattooing.
And Ed falls in love with thefact that Mike can take
photographs.
And the key thing here is Mikecould take photographs of three
dimensional art and make it twodimensional.
So these guys and Mike coulddevelop his own film, so they
could then flatten these imagesout.
And now they have referencethese dudes didn't have Japanese

(28:35):
references, so when they rollup in a museum and Mike can take
a picture of a big JapaneseUkiyo-e print and flatten that
thing out and Ed can trace itand make a back piece.
It's like oh, now we're inbusiness, yeah, yeah, yeah,
that's awesome, making their ownreference.
So then Ed's like you got tocome meet Jerry.
So then they go and meet Jerry,and then that's when it started

(28:58):
to crack off.
So then they go and keep Jerryand then that's when it started
to crack off they would go andthey would just milk on him and
learn from him and he wanted tocreate basically the you know,
for this anniversary party thatwe're having, we call it tat
university.
My friend, miguel Uzi um, hecoined this place, tat
university.
Well, jerry and Ed were tryingto actually make a tat
university like where artistscould come to get better in

(29:20):
Hawaii yeah so technically, thefirst one was like him, ed and
uh, jerry, ed and mike, and thenthey had oguri come out, so now
they have a connection to thejapanese, the first japanese
person to ever meet with thewhite guys to do tattoos.
So Mike got his arm outlined, edhad to one up him and get his

(29:40):
back outlined and Jerry got likea little peony or something on
him, but that was like a mergerright there.
That was, that was thebeginning of East meets West,
you know, and yeah, they wereall just right there, pivotal.
And so then when Jerry dies, hehad told his wife you either
sell the shop because jerry wassecretive, you know, he wanted

(30:02):
to keep this thing close to thepeople that deserved it and
forget the rest of turd hill.
He didn't want any of them toget it.
So he said to his wife eithersell the shop to ed hardy, zeke
owens, mike malone, or you burnit to the ground.
And his wife was down to burnit to the ground.

Speaker 1 (30:20):
Well.

Speaker 2 (30:21):
Ed was studying with the Japanese as the first white
man in Japan to be doing tattooson the regs like on big scale,
and so he didn't want to leavethat.
Zeke was off floating aroundMalaysia or something and just
being Zeke.
He didn't want to do nothingwith it, they couldn't even
reach him, and so Mike took itand Mike didn't have but I mean

(30:43):
a couple years tattooing under.

Speaker 1 (30:45):
I was going to say was he the least experienced of
the three at that time?

Speaker 2 (30:48):
Sure, for sure.
Yeah, I mean, like he tells thestory, he always told me he's
only got three years oftattooing before he took over
Jerry's and I think it couldhave been even less, but yeah,
he had no, real nothing behindhim.
So he sits in Jerry's and I'sgot to take care of Superman's
freaking ice castle.

(31:09):
You know it's like wow, whatpressure, but he did it and we
wouldn't know about it.

Speaker 1 (31:13):
So he made the move from New York to Hawaii.

Speaker 2 (31:15):
Yep straight away, damn dude.
Yeah, and then got plugged withall of it.
You know, everything was there.
We wouldn't have, you know, thealoha monkey sheet.
That's the original alohamonkey sheet.
Um, no way we wouldn't havethis an original pinup girl that
he did it's front and back side.
We wouldn't have any of that ifit wasn't for Mike.

(31:37):
It would have just all beenlost to a fire.

Speaker 1 (31:39):
And there it goes.
Yeah, that's incredible, man, Imean to be able to go, and
obviously that's where Mike'sjourney really picks up too.
But the idea of you think aboutwhat yourself would be going
through at that time in yourlife, thinking about your own
journey as a human being, butthen you also have the artistic,

(32:01):
you know, knowledge and and, uh, respect to preserve what he
walked into too and realize howimportant it is, you know.
So it's like that's, I meankudos.
Yeah, kudos man, for sure, forsure.
And so how long did he run thatshot before he bounced?
Because at one point he's likeHawaii's beautiful, but I gotta,

(32:24):
I gotta, get out of here yeah,no, he got the rock fever for
sure starts to get small there.

Speaker 2 (32:31):
Um, I mean, he bounced a couple times.
He went to Seattle for a littlebit for a season and it was too
depressing, maybe it was a year.
Uh, he went to austin for awhile.
Um had a relationship there,worked for the austin chronicle.
He was an editor of the art ofthe cover of the austin
chronicle, so a lot of thecovers of the austin chronicle
have his illustrations in them.
That's rad, I didn't know that.

(32:52):
Oh, yeah, um, there's somegreat ones that he did.
He did every uh, zodiac, um foryear front covers for the
Austin Chronicle.
So like the tiger, the ox, yeah, snake, yeah, it was cool.

Speaker 1 (33:07):
Incredible man.
So let's talk about the mergeof you, aloha, Monkey and Mike.
And real quick.
Can I ask just a dumb question?
I know he went by Rollo Banks.
What's the?
What's the origin of that?
What's the connection of that?

Speaker 2 (33:24):
That's just something his peers called him based in
Ed, basically based off anArchie comic.
There was a character in itcalled Rollo Banks and it was
kind of like a Richie Rich kid.
You know you'd have to knowthat reference from comics to
understand or cartoons tounderstand that but like a blend
of a Richie Rich and a ScroogeMcDuck.
You know, like Rollo was intomaking some money and having

(33:46):
nice shit, so he got Rollo Banksout of it.

Speaker 1 (33:49):
Nice, cool.
Yeah, I've always wondered thatand I've always, you know, it's
been one of those things.
I was like, you know, I figurethis is a safe space, I can ask
that question.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure, so,yeah.
So let's talk about you andMike and the Aloha.
How does it all come together?
You're apprenticing in Chicago.
How do you end up in Minnesota?

Speaker 2 (34:12):
Well, let me tell you that that's how.
Keith is a huge part of that,and Denise all props to Denise
Wolf man, because that womantook two kids that weren't going
to do nothing and helped themdo something, and the very first
thing she did was introduce usto who the people we needed to
focus on were, and that's SailorJerry, mike Malone and Ed Hardy

(34:32):
.
She had Mike Malone flash inher shop and I had never seen it
or knew about it.
She introduced me to the TattooTime publications, which were
essentially the first tattoomagazines that already did.
Um, she forced me to see thatstuff and to read it and to tell
her about what I read and toshe was so good about so many

(34:56):
things about tattooing.
She was excellent about theline work.
She was excellent about thetechnical aspects, how to
approach different skin types.
She was a technician'stechnician man and, uh, I still
use so much of what she taughtme to this day.
But, um, yeah, I wouldn't knowwho Mike Malone was if it wasn't
for her.
So, basically, keith and I arekicking it together all the time

(35:17):
.
We wanted to buy these tattoomachines the sailor Jerry
bulldog that had came out, andum, couldn't buy one, and so
Keith's like let's just look atthe back of tattoo time, let's
call Mike.
So he calls Mike out of theback of the tattoo time, calls
him at the shop and that startsbasically a penman, like a pen

(35:38):
pal relationship between us.
He was stoked that these twoyoung kids.
He told us we were terrible.
He said we should probably quit, but he had these two kids that
worked near a Navy base and hewas blown away that the Navy
base, because there was only twoand they distilled it down to
one.
They got rid of Jacksonville andso it was only the Great Lakes
Navy base and so if you were aNavy you had to cycle through

(36:01):
there as bootcamp.
And he was blown away becauseHonolulu wasn't doing any Navy.
I mean really, there's nowartime, it's empty.
And he was blown away that thatwent, that actually went away
in his business, but also thatwe had that and he was asking
like, well, what are theygetting?
He was a real interested and sowe would hit him up for designs

(36:24):
like, oh, this kid wants aPopeye.
And there wasn't a ton ofreference.
All right, guys, there wasn'tGoogle, you had to buy books.
And so we had hit him up and hewould send us through a fax
machine a design and then wewould have to send him 20 bucks
in the mail and it'd takeforever to get there, but it was
the principle and we'd sitthere at the fax machine, keith

(36:44):
and I, waiting for the designslowly to come through and then
be able to trace it and put iton the kid.
And he helped us with severaldesigns Actually, huge story
about that.
One of them was a sun and somewater that this Navy kid wanted.
And flash forward 20 some yearsand I get to see this kid
because a guy that's working forme grew up with this kid as

(37:06):
best friends.
He went off to the navy he saidhey, I think this guy got
tattooed by you at lucky sevenand it's the design that rollo
helped me draw.
No way, yeah, it was crazy.
But yeah, so we become pen pals.
And then Keith was always superinterested in A making money and

(37:28):
B the mechanics of tattoomachine building.
He had put up a little machinebuilding part in Denise's shop
and so he was assembling justparts that he bought from
Spalding and National and he wasassembling his own things and
him and Nick Colella got in on acircle frame together and they
did that.
And so when he got with Mike hewas interested in how's the

(37:50):
Rallomatic work?
How does that do?
How do we build those Blah,blah, blah?
And Ro liked the fact that thiskid was interested and he had
youthful hands, rollo had old,couldn't put them all together,
and so they basically jammed outon machines and so Keith and I
would visit him and then he wasbasically like, look, if I'm

(38:10):
opening a shop in Minnesota.
If you guys know anybody that'sgood not you send them my way.
Well then, keith and I justshowed up and he's like not you
guys, and we're like pleaseanyone, but you do yeah.
And then it basically stuck.
You know, once Keith was offthe apprentice deal and he was
working the floor, he gaveDenise a year.

(38:32):
We were doing that pen palthing for a year and then he
came up here and so he openedthe shop with Mike.
Mike was like all right, I'lltake you.
And I had obligations back inChicago.
I wasn't going to ditch out onDenise who let me in the door,
and so it really wasn't evenoffered.
They didn't have enoughbusiness.
It was a brand new shop.
So he took Keith and thenstarted building the
Roll-O-Matic.

(38:52):
Keith was essential in buildingthat out for him.
And then I would just bounce uphere every weekend that I had.
I would get off work at 10o'clock, I would drive until
what?
Seven hour drive, get hereearly in the morning, I would
stay with my, I would stay withKeith and I'd work with Mike and
Keith for two days and then I'ddrive back for my next day at

(39:14):
the shop.
We didn't open till two so Icould leave in the morning, and
I did that for a year.
And then, well, keith had setit up.
Keith was like yo man, we couldget like a duplex.
Put him in the bottom and we'lltake care of him.
And then you and I live in thetop.
And so, yeah, I remembergetting a call.
I was living in my parents'basement and uh, raul's like,

(39:35):
hey, how would you like to livewith uncle Rallo?
And I was like, oh my God, andyou don't understand.
Guys Like you might look atthat as kind of corny, but this
is like I was taught to respectmy elders and shit.

Speaker 1 (39:46):
So this is like your mentor a guy you look up to and
fucking like eric clapton, ozzyosbourne I mean it's like the
biggest act.
Yeah, he's one of the goats man.
You know it's like and it'slike and it's, it's.
It's also, you know, like the.
The thing I love about, uh, youknow, trade work, tattooing,

(40:07):
culture, anything like that is,you know there's like you.
You see how importantpersistence is, how important it
is to just work your ass off.
And you know, not only is thisguy, like you're saying, a
mentor, one of the greats, butit's also taken into perspective

(40:29):
all the work you've put upuntil this point.
So when you get that call, youknow it's like hell.
Yeah, you know it's like that's.
That's a, that's a lifechanging moment, you know.

Speaker 2 (40:39):
Yeah, it was big.
And I remember just like, yeah,man, I'll, I'll be there as
soon as I can.
And I told Denise and she was ahundred percent supportive.
And so it was me and Keithliving with the old man and
working with him, and I workedpart-time at his wife's shop.
It was a couple of suburbs away.
And then Mike had point blankput this Aloha monkey in a

(41:00):
specific area and he choseBurnsville because back then the
phone books mattered and theway that it works is 35 goes
from fricking, mexico to Canada.
Yeah, at Minnesota it breaksinto two and it goes St Paul,
minneapolis and then it goesback to 135 up to Canada.

(41:20):
Well, mike puts Burnsville'sright down here at the V, he
puts the shop there so you canequally advertise to both
surrounding suburbs of thecities.
And it was perfect.
And so, yeah, that's why hechose Burnsville, that's why
we're here, that's why the placeworks.

(41:42):
And, um, we got to live withhim and that was a riot in
itself, just living with yourmentor and working with them was
incredible.

Speaker 1 (41:47):
Yeah, I can imagine, man, I know, uh, I know there's
gotta be uh in, uh be just alifetime of lessons.
But in talking about Mike, Ialways just feel like it's such
a cool thing to be able to talkto someone who was so close to
him and anytime you have thatsort of firsthand knowledge, if

(42:11):
you could pick a thing or two.
What were some of the thingsthat you learned from him,
whether it be life or tattooingor anything, oh man, Uh, there's
a lot.

Speaker 2 (42:20):
Um, I mean, first and foremost, you keep the hours
that you have advertised.
You know what I mean.
You just you keep the hours.
If it says 12 to eight, youwere there 12 to eight, not 12
to seven, 50, not, you know, 12,10 to seven, 40.
You're there 12 to 8, not 12 to750, not 1210 to 740.
You're there 12 to 8.
And you treat the shop andworking in a tattoo shop like
it's an eight-hour job.

(42:40):
You got this from Jerry.
So the reason these guyspainted a bunch is they didn't
have a lot of tattoos to do, sothey were painting because they
treated the shop time, whateverthe shop hours were, as a job.
So if you didn't have skincoming in, you're working on
getting better and I don't see alot of tattooers doing that
anymore.
I don't see them drawing.
I'm not a huge fan of paintingall the time.

(43:01):
I think that's a great exercisefor what it's worth.
I think drawing is moreimportant and honing that skill.
But you don't see that.
You don't see tattooers treatedlike an eight hour job.
You see them on their phones,you see them dicking around, but
you don't see them treatmentlike that.
So Rala was insistent.
That is an eight hour job andyou do something for your trade.

(43:25):
I mean, back then we weremaking our own needles and a lot
of our own inks and so we hadto do all that maintenance.
But yeah, treat your shop likeit's a job and give it the
respect that it deserves andthink about how fortunate we are
to do what we do.
You know a lot of tattooers nowbitch because they're not asking
for their style.
Well, rallo and a lot of theseold guys weren't into the one

(43:47):
trick pony.
You know you don't pointyourself into a corner and just
stay there.
That's of no value to them.
Rallo was like think howfortunate we are.
We get to sit here and do ourdrawing and hone our skill.
We get to paint whatever wewant.
And then somebody comes in andthey ask us to build them a
bridge.
And then we build them a bridgeand then they walk out and we
go back to doing the kind of artand fun things that we want

(44:07):
that are going to make usexpressed.
And then somebody comes in andsays, hey, I want you to build
me a fence.
And then you build them a fenceand you know where in the world
do you get to do that, whereyou get to be expressive and do
your thing and make some money.
You know what I mean.
Like he's like, if you give itthe respect, if you give
tattooing the respect that itdeserves, it will give you
respect back.

Speaker 1 (44:28):
Yeah, a hundred percent, man.
I mean you, you, you get whatyou give.
You know, with stuff like that,the more you put into it, the
more respect you give.
You know the craft, your art,your work you know the more it
gives back to you.
I mean, I know that that's thesame with music too.
I mean there's so many peoplewho just get into music who you

(44:49):
know they don't really respectall the hard work and all the
nuances that go into, you know,writing a song or the dedication
it takes to be a band on theroad and all these things.
And you know it's like there'scertain levels of fame or
achievement of success thatsomeone like that might reach,

(45:09):
but they're always going to berobbed of, like the real purpose
of, of what it is that they'redoing.
You know what I mean.
And it's like it's gotta bedisappointing on your end
Sometimes when you see peoplewho don't appreciate the full
spectrum of what it's all about.

Speaker 2 (45:26):
You know what I mean, yeah it is, but I love
tattooing so much Like I tell alot of my guys quite often I'm
like I care way more abouttattooing than your feelings.
So I'm just going to be honest.
You know what I mean.
It's just like this is so muchmore important, like I tell
people to be prepared.
I think preparation issomething that Mike was good at
as well.
You've done these things.
You've honed it so much thatwhen it's game time, you can

(45:47):
shoot the ball.
So preparation is huge.
You know, like when I'm goinginto an outline, it's kind of
it's like a cage match for me.
It's like there's this thingthat I'm doing or there's death.
I don't think it's a nonchalantthing.
I think it's important, andpart of that is, yes, it's, it's
not even ego-based.
It's like, yes, it's their arm,but this is like important to

(46:09):
tattooing.
It's like it has to be right.
It could be any arm, it's notjust that person's arm or back
or whatever, but it it has to beright, it has to look right, it
has to be applied right.
It does matter where that leafsets.
It does matter how that fits onthe hips, it does matter, and
so it's this thing I'm doing ordeath.

Speaker 1 (46:30):
Yeah, and then you know.
You know what's interestingabout that is it's cool you say
that because there are peoplealways apply that kind of idea
to like the big picture.
You know like I'm going to do.
You know I'm either going to bea musician or I'm going to die.
I'm going to be a tattoo artistor I'm going to die.
I'm going to be the best I canbe or this or that.
There's no other.
There's no plan B.
You always hear about artistssaying that you know, but it's

(46:52):
funny how many people forget tolook.
It goes deeper than that Inorder for that to happen in
order for the big picture to bedo or die.
All the details have to be do ordie too, Like you're saying
it's like every tattoo has to bedo or die, every line has to be
important, every drawing,everything you're doing has to

(47:20):
matter, you know, and it's, it's.
It's funny how there's thatsometimes there's a disconnect
with that between the day to youknow, the day to day ins and
outs of a trade or a craft or acareer versus, you know, just
the kind of big picture, overallachievement, success.
All the stuff in between has tobe do or die too, you know.

Speaker 2 (47:36):
Yeah, I love what you said.
There's a disconnect betweenthe big picture and the daily
discipline, and that goes backto the eight hours in the shop.
It's the daily discipline, youknow, and, like you said, it
could be music, it could bewhatever, but if your big
picture is dreamy and do or die,it's like do your actions show
that?
Yeah, daily actions, do yourminute-by-minute actions be
showing that?
I don't know, man.

Speaker 1 (47:57):
Okay.
So you know, unfortunately welose Mike.
I want to talk about youbecoming shop owner here of the
Aloha.
I want to talk about thattransition.

Speaker 2 (48:05):
Well, that was.
It went down.
I'd only been tattooing threeyears when Mike approached me.
Keith had already left to go.
He got married and went back toChicagoland area.
So it was me and Mike and wehad this apartment.
And then I left that apartmentto live with another person and
Mike was just finishing upbefore he was going to go take
care of his sick mother.

(48:26):
She was back in Rona Park,where he was from, and he's like
look, I got to bail, I got togo take care of my mom.
Basically, I'm either sellingyou the shop or it's closing.
And I'm like, pardon me, I meanGrime's book.
It just came out about thisdude that goes around the world
and sees all these amazingthings and comes back a better
artist.
And I read this book from Grimeand I'm just like, oh Mike, no,

(48:48):
I want to go around the worldand I want to get good at this
thing and I'm not even goodenough.
And how am I going to take careof this?
And he goes kid, I know I'vebeen hard on you, but you need
about 10 000 miles of outlineand about 5 000 miles of square
color and you're gonna be great.
And I was like, oh shit, allright he goes so how about this?

(49:11):
I sweeten the pot.
I'll just sell it to you forwhat I bought Jerry's for in
1973.
How's that?
And I went oh my God, uh, uh.
How long do you plan on beingaround?

Speaker 1 (49:22):
I mean.

Speaker 2 (49:23):
I don't, I can't get a loan.
You know, I hit up my dad, he'slike stupid idea.
Hit up my grandfather before mystep grandfather before he died
, he's like absolutely not.
I have no registered accountthat I've made any dollars ever,
so how am I getting a loan foranything?
And he says let's just work itout.
And so I said I mean when areyou thinking leaving?

(49:44):
He's like six, nine months, Idon't know.
I'm like all right, so I workseven days a week, um, at two
different shops, and then bythat time I was just at the
Aloha monkey, but for a whilethere I was working at his
wife's shop and that shop and um, just seven days a week, man,
and I was eating ramen noodles.

(50:05):
And my mom was a frugal woman.
She grew up in Illinois and,you know, had an outhouse when
she was a kid, and so she taughtme about how to save and not
live above your means, and so Iknew about the disciplinary act
of doing that and thank God forher.
I call her my backwoods Buddha,because there's just things
that she shouldn't know.
You know she's not highlyeducated, but she's got some

(50:26):
kind of enlightenment that'sunheard of.
I like that.
So, yeah, my backwoods Buddha.
She taught me how to disciplinemyself and go for something.
So we me and Mike were watchingthe Sopranos.
It was out for season releasesat that time and we were
watching the Sopranos on Sunday.
So after work I would go grabsome food and then I'd bring it

(50:48):
over to his place and we'd sitdown, have some Italian food and
watch Sopranos.
Well, this one time I grabbedthis old briefcase from a thrift
store and I knew I had gottenenough money to buy it from him,
and so I filled it with thecash, put it in the studio
briefcase and after dinner I putit up on the coffee table and
slid it to him and I was likethere you go, mike.

Speaker 1 (51:11):
And he's like what's this?

Speaker 2 (51:17):
He there, you go, mike, and he's like what's this?
He like opens it up, oh my god.
And I was like I'd like to buythat shop.
And he's like it's yours, andso I got to keep everything in
it.
You know, he gave me um, Idon't know if you can see him,
but jerry's original referencebooks are up here.
He didn't want to move himagain.
Um, that's a crazy story inthose reference books, cause I

(51:37):
believe everything's connectedin some way or another.
I'm not necessarily hip to how,but everything's connected.
So in the books I was, they'rebrittle, they're sun bleached,
they're dry.
So I'm like digging throughthem, just looking at them.
They're pretty busted.
So I'm flipping through themand inside the book there is

(51:58):
this monkey acetate.
You probably can't see it, butoh shit, no way.
The only thing in there as abookmark was an acetate of a
freaking monkey, of an alohamonkey scratching his ass oh my

(52:21):
god dude so I was like no way,that's wild.
but yeah, bought the shop frommike and then I was a 20 year
old or 21 year old shop ownerand that was crazy.
We had three guys, a piercerand me and one other tattoo
artist and um, then it was on.
I just tried to do what I sawhim do well and not do what I

(52:44):
saw him not do well.
I mean, there were times hewould break the credit card
machine, be like it's not enoughpads credit card machines broke
.
I was like it's not broke.
These people go broke on creditcard.
You have to have a credit cardhere.
And he's like, nope, it'sbroken, can't use it.
I was like, all right.
So there was just things that Irefused to go back to, you know
and all of those trial anderror.

(53:07):
I mean, we just there werethings that didn't work and then
we got rid of those and thingsthat worked, we kept them and
then I started to travel quite abit.
I was real secretive in thebeginning, you know, because I
was young and didn't know a lotof people.
In 2002, I started to go out.
Well, in 2001, I got my chestdone by Ed Hardy, um, cause I
wasn't going to get tattooed bymy scrub friends, I was going to

(53:29):
get tattooed by the greats.
Yeah, I got my chest done by edhardy.
A year later, got my ribs doneby him, um, and he's always been
gracious to me.
Uh, with the connection withmike, he's always been really
cool, answering any questions Ihad.
He's been really um, you know,everybody on his birthday and
shit takes all these picturesand posts.

(53:50):
Look at me with ed hardy.
I mean, I have tons of storiesabout me and ed hardy.
I just never busted his ballsto take a picture Um, so he was
just a good friend in tattooingand a great mentor and, uh,
still is.
I just saw him a year ago, um.
So, and then 2002, I started togo down and see Bob in LA.
I was dating a girl.

(54:11):
She had a sister in LA Um, andso, yeah, every couple of months
she'd want to go see her sister.
I was dating a girl.
She had a sister in LA Um, andso, yeah, every couple of months
she'd want to go see her sister.
I'd want to go see Bob, so thenstarted getting tattooed by Bob
, and then I brought all thatstuff back and I would see what
works in these other shops andbe like that definitely doesn't
work, we can't do that.
And then the monkey juststarted to evolve in what it is.

Speaker 1 (54:32):
Awesome, man, that's incredible.
Uh, you know I'm I'm sorry fortaking up so much of your time
here, but it's, it's so cool.

Speaker 2 (54:40):
It's so cool, so I get it.

Speaker 1 (54:41):
I know, I know it's crazy, Um, but one of the things
I was reading about, which Iyou know, I just wanted to ask
real quick, is the story of theAloha monkey.
As far as you know, it is thestory.
Do you think that story is true?

Speaker 2 (54:55):
I do.
I think it's true because ofwho Jerry was and how little of
his life was alive.
You know what I mean.
He was just so true and thesources that have told me these
stories, like Ed Mike candy, Ijust I got to go with it.

Speaker 1 (55:13):
Trusted sources.
Trusted sources?
Yeah, so the story is that youknow he had a monkey in the shop
, right, and did they actuallyso?
Did they tattoo the monkey?
They actually tattooed themonkey.
Okay, so they put the AL andthe HA, because the monkey had
Monkey's name is Romeo.
Romeo, that's right.
Romeo had a habit of bendingover and greeting people.

Speaker 2 (55:36):
Yeah, and uh but the rest of the story goes like this
.
So Romeo had this, uh, he hadbeen trained to bend over.
You know, mike got him when hewas in the China sea area.
That's why, rollo, that was histour.
He wanted to go back after, uh,after world war two and he
wanted to serve.
When they did what they did toPearl Harbor, he wanted to serve
.
He was too old so he became amerchant marine.

(55:57):
Then he goes to the South ChinaSeas that's where he does his
tour, comes back with thismonkey Trains.
The monkey Monkey bends over ina cage near the front door.
Anytime he sees a white sailoroutfit, jerry ends up tattooing
the monkey, like you said.
Then one day jerry comes in theshop.

(56:17):
The monkey has gotten out ofthe cage.
There's diarrhea and black inkeverywhere.
It had gotten into his ink andhad been drinking his black ink.
He doesn't know what to do aboutromeo.
So he puts romeo back in thecage, calls his chinese
herbalist because he loved thechinese people and he could
actually speak mandarin a littlebit.
He could write it too.
Um, and trying to figure outhow to save romeo's life, what's
going to happen to romeo?
And in walk, two sailors?

(56:39):
Because he didn't shut the door.
They think he's open.
Romeo doesn't bat an eye, bendsover to salute the sailors and
diarrhea black ink shit all overthe sailors.
And then rollo, or uh, jerry,just thought that was the
funniest thing he'd ever seen.
So he drew this design of amonkey with a shit-eating grin
bent over.
And Rollo used that name herebecause, again, the importance

(57:00):
of the yellow pages at that time, acme.
AAA, all that you know what Imean.
The A yeah, so the AL, he'sright there Also.
He wanted to piss off theseconservative, cold-hearted
Lutherans with something alittle bit more funny.

Speaker 1 (57:17):
Yeah, yeah, that's great man.
That's such a classic story.
All right, so just a couplequestions here from the internet
.
Do you have to have tattoos tobe a great tattoo artist?

Speaker 2 (57:31):
It definitely helps and I would say, yes, you do,
because you have to have someskin in the game.
Like I said, I think all thisstuff's connected and so if
there's not a flesh offering,you're not going to get much out
of this.
Who's going to buy shoes off abarefoot shoe salesman?

Speaker 1 (57:50):
See, I tend to agree with you.
I know that there might beexceptions to the rule where you
know you have a great artistwho hasn't necessarily received
a bunch of tattoos, but I justdon't see.
I don't really, I don't see howyeah, kuranuma Horiyoshi too.

Speaker 2 (58:05):
That's about it.

Speaker 1 (58:07):
That was in history.

Speaker 2 (58:08):
That's about it.
Do you go under anesthesia?
Let's go back to the reality ofthe world.
Skin offering.
You have to have a skinoffering to get something out of
this business.
And what business do you havebeing in something that you're
not willing to test the watersof yourself?
You know what I mean?
Yeah, I'm buying whiskey off asober guy, you know.
So it's not happening.

(58:32):
So, anyway, you got to havesomething in the game.
And if you're going to go underanesthesia, like you're going
to lose all the valor of gettinga tattoo.
It's just fake.

Speaker 1 (58:43):
All right, a couple last.
We're going to wrap this uphere.
I swear, ok, we're going to,we're going to bring it back to
the party.
Ok, we got, we got 25 years,the Aloha Monkey coming up 26
through the 28th of April, andI'm guessing throughout your
years you've been to a lot ofparties.
I want to hit you with a littlefill in the blank.

(59:04):
You can fill in the blank.
Okay, this is a Tupac Shakursong.
Okay, it's ain't nothing but awhat party?

Speaker 2 (59:15):
I don don't know.

Speaker 1 (59:15):
I don't listen to tupac ain't nothing but a
gangster party.
Ain't nothing but a gangsterparty okay, what type of party
does the band black flag like tohave?

Speaker 2 (59:27):
what kind of a party do they like to have?
Yeah, I don't know.
A hardcore party, a tv, a TVparty.
Oh Jesus, you're trying to Comeon.
This is the trivia game.
Spend my years in a tattoo shop, bro.

Speaker 1 (59:42):
I was up late last night.
I was in bed and all of asudden it hit me these questions
and I was like, oh, these areso great.
I got to get up, I got to writethese.

Speaker 2 (59:50):
Do another one, then I'm excited, all right, so what?
What?
What type of party does oingoboingo throw?
Oh fuck, give it to me musicman, a dead man's party.

Speaker 1 (01:00:02):
It's a dead man's party.
Oingo boingo.
You've never heard that song.

Speaker 2 (01:00:05):
I have heard oingo boingo and that is probably one
of the bands that most peoplehave heard and wouldn't even
know that the name of the bandthat's true, it's true.

Speaker 1 (01:00:14):
Yeah, I'll be.
I'll be fully honest.
Danny Elfman truly scares me.
He's a pretty freaky dude, haveyou seen now?
He's like super jacked.
He's got, he's got weird tatsand stuff.
He's a, he's a wild card.
Okay, where does Miley Cyruslike to party?
The USA, nice.
And I heard that whisper.
I heard I heard that whisper inthe back.
I heard that whisper.

(01:00:35):
All right, the Leslie Gore song.
You complete the sentence here.
It's my party and I'll blank ifI want to.

Speaker 2 (01:00:43):
Cry if I want to.

Speaker 1 (01:00:44):
There you go, my man.
All right.
Last two questions here.
Yeah, we're going to go back intime.
Bill and Ted show up at theparty.
Okay, all of a sudden phonebooth in time.
Bill and Ted show up at theparty.
Okay, all of a sudden phonebooth comes down.
Bill and Ted get out.
They go, josh, anywhere inhistory, anytime, any era, any

(01:01:05):
place.
Let's go.
Where are you going to go first, and why?
Wow, that's a tough one.

Speaker 2 (01:01:12):
I got two.
Yeah, all right, the first one.
I would go back to the time ofChrist.
I would go back to like 33, ad,38.

Speaker 1 (01:01:21):
All the way back, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:01:24):
I want to see that.
I want to see what was up.
I want to be firsthand account.

Speaker 1 (01:01:28):
I like that.
I like that.

Speaker 2 (01:01:30):
I'm a history, know I love Jesus and I've also done
enough psychedelics to see thateverything's connected.
And I want to know.
I want to be there.
I'm not saying I would evenhave the balls to be there, but
I want to be there.

Speaker 1 (01:01:44):
Yeah Well, you can always just jump back into the
phone booth and take off when itgets hairy.

Speaker 2 (01:01:50):
And then the second place I'd want to be is 1970s
tattooing, like all this thatwe've been talking about, popped
off.
I think it would have been anepic time to be there.
I would have liked to have beenaround mike and the guys when
they were learning this stuff,because I got to know him as old
men and I would have loved tohave seen him when they were,

(01:02:10):
you know, shitting their pantslike I was at a young man's age.

Speaker 1 (01:02:15):
Hell yeah, man, hell yeah, awesome, josh, all right,
last question here it's a littlebit of a doozy, but what to you
is the meaning of life?

Speaker 2 (01:02:30):
To me, the meaning of life is you only get one ride
in this flesh sack, so find theway to kill the ego and live
more in the rhythm of yourspirit, body.
Now, that's applicable to somany things, from martial arts
to just walking down the street,to being in a relationship, but
I think it's the death of theego and the focus of what keeps
us all, what we all have incommon in spirit.

Speaker 1 (01:02:52):
Hell yeah, man, that's awesome, brother, that's
awesome.
All right, Josh Arment, thankyou so much for your time here
in the Sailor Jerry podcast.
My man, oh, you're so welcomeEverybody.
We're going to celebrate 25years of the Aloha Monkey in
Burnsville, minnesota, on April26th to 28th.
If you got a wild hair up yourass, fly out, go to the party,

(01:03:12):
get tattooed.
I was trying to get out there.
I get tattooed.

Speaker 2 (01:03:15):
I was trying to get out there.

Speaker 1 (01:03:16):
I knew you were.
I was trying to get out there,but you know.

Speaker 2 (01:03:19):
At 30, you'll be playing.

Speaker 1 (01:03:21):
At 30, we'll be playing, so it's all good.
You know, josh, it's beenreally cool catching up with you
and, honestly, man, I got somuch respect, you know, for you
as an artist, as a, as a humanbeing and just for continuing
the tradition.
I mean, you know, from sailorJerry to Mike, you know to you
through the shop.

(01:03:41):
It's just, uh, it's really coolto see how it all goes back.
Um, you know from where itstarted and and to where you're
at now.
So, uh, thank you for doingwhat you do.
Man, appreciate youno-transcript.