December 5, 2024 • 42 mins
Macha Schiavone is a well-respected voice and entrepreneur in the traditional tattooing community. Tune in as we explore the enduring charm of Sailor Jerry's iconic flash designs and celebrate the re-release of the legendary book, Homeward Bound: The Life and Times of Hori Smoku Sailor Jerry.
Macha also takes us on a journey from the sun-kissed streets of southern Italy to the bustling tattoo studios of London, where he discovered his passion for traditional tattoos. We delve into how Macha started the renowned @traditionalstattoo Instagram, the sacred connection between music and tattooing, gatekeeping in the industry, tattoo aftercare, and Macha's must-know list of traditional tattoo artists. As always, brought to you by Sailor Jerry!
https://www.instagram.com/machaschiavone/
https://www.instagram.com/traditionalstattoos/
https://sailorjerry.com
Macha's traditional Tattooers you need to follow
https://www.instagram.com/francesco__ferrara_/
https://www.instagram.com/rafadecraneo/
https://www.instagram.com/pauldobleman/
https://www.instagram.com/bara_madrid/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
What's up, masha?
Speaker 2 (00:01):
Traditionals tattoo fucking Tiger's Fit.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Balm aftercare in the house, Sailor Jerry podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Long time coming.
What's up my man?
How are you?
Yeah man, yeah man, prettyhyped, yeah excited.
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Hell yeah, man, Hell yeah and yeah.
It's about time that we getsome Italian love on the podcast
.
You know, what can you tell usabout your italy growing?
Speaker 2 (00:29):
up in italy.
Uh, what can you tell us aboutit?
Pretty much, I grew up in thesouth I mean, I was born in rome
, okay, so my mother?
is from my father from southitaly, so I was born in rome,
grew up in the south um, inpuglia, which is the you know
italy is like a boot.
So I grew up in the top of thehill, you know the boot.
So at the last very south.
(00:50):
But I can't tell you muchbecause when I was 19, I moved
out to England, to UK, and Imoved out to London.
I've been living like 12 yearsthere and then I moved out to
Spain.
I can't tell you much, to behonest, because you know like
I've been living like 12 yearsthere and then I moved out to
Spain.
I can't tell you much, to behonest, because you know like
I've been.
I remember like seven, eightyear max.
You know I just enjoyed withmotorbikes and having fun with
(01:12):
that with friends at school, butnot much, to be honest you know
, when was the real fun?
when the 19 years old, I movedout, I went to UK and was like I
used to grew up in a smallvillage down in Italy and I
couldn't see much to be honest,like 10 000 people living here,
which now I'm living in.
I came back to be honest and sofor me it was like a blow on my
(01:34):
mind when I went to live inlondon.
Really, then that's when Idiscovered basically my, my
passion for tattoos, you knowyeah, awesome, everything came
together in london.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
That's sick.
How did you know the the, thekind of bigger picture of
tattooing, come into your world?
Speaker 2 (01:51):
it was pretty.
I mean it's, it's funny.
You know, it's a kind of funny,a strange situation, because I
used to be I used to be ageneral manager in a sushi place
, in a sushi restaurant inlondon, and I remember in soho,
I was in in Broadway Street inSoho and I remember like every
single night there was a guy,was a man, a guy, whatever, he
used to come and buy those youknow sushi from us and this guy
(02:15):
had a unique style.
It was so cool.
It was, you know, it had thataura that he had.
It was amazing.
So then I discovered it was.
It was Dante, which is.
I discovered he was uh, uh, itwas dante which is the owner
from free street, uh, in londonyou know the studio, free street
.
Yeah, yeah.
So it was dante.
This guy was coming to.
It was, and I wanted to knowwhat is this guy doing.
(02:36):
And then, you know, talking andchatting, he said you know, I
own a studio just around thecorner, blah, blah, blah.
So I went there and stefanofrom free street tattooed me the
first flesh of sailor jerry,which is, and then from from
that time it was just like nostop.
I started getting flesh ofsailor jerry flashes all over
and I just fell in love, youknow, and that's it nice.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
What was the first?
Uh, sailor jerry flash, you gotso from stefano.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
I got like a pilot here, nice uh, and then I have
many.
To be honest, I got the anyafrom sailor jerry.
I got the eagle.
I got, I got two eagle.
I got many flashes of sailorjerry.
I love sailor jerry yeah, it's,uh, it's.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
It's pretty fucking timeless and we got uh, you know
, we got this book right here.
That is out, I have it, yeah.
Yeah, let's see where you gotit where you yeah, yeah yeah,
yeah, it's, uh, it's reallyreally amazing.
Uh.
You know original press here,uh, homeward round.
(03:38):
Uh, you know the life and timesof sailor jerry and it's out
now as of the airing of thispodcast.
It is out um incredible book uhyou know just some amazing
stories and photos in here.
You obviously got a love for,say, the jerry.
Yeah.
What do you think about hislegacy when it comes to
traditional tattoos?
Speaker 2 (03:58):
obviously I always like I always talk as a
passionate.
You know I'm not a tattooer, soI try to respect as much as I
can.
Like I always talk as apassionate.
You know I'm not a tattooist,so I try to respect as much as I
can and giving opinion.
You know, for for as much as Ias I breathe and leave the
tattoo world and Sailor Jerrywithin, I think Sailor Jerry is
what made tattoos andtraditional tattoos known all
around the world.
It was that the spark that said, you know, like traditional
(04:21):
tattoos are cool and everybodystarted getting tattooed because
you know, when he came up withthose, uh, I don't know how many
flesh sheets, uh, those werethe first tattoos.
They were, you know, prettymuch aesthetically very nice and
liked by anyone.
I mean nobody could say you know, I don't like it, you know
because before that it wasdifferent, different style and
you know, it was really good atreally really good at drawing
(04:44):
and painting.
So it was like boom.
It was like, I think, like heupgraded like a thousand percent
what was done before.
He made it for everyone andworldwide known.
So that was the.
That was the thing, I thinkit's an interesting conversation
we're having.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Like you're saying, you know you come from just kind
of an outsider place ofartistic respect for the trade
and the craft and it's reallycool because just artistically
you know, from the customer side, so to speak, from someone who
walks in and sees that old flashon the wall and sees those
designs and see how timelessthey are I mean there's just
(05:24):
nothing like it.
You know what I mean's.
It's, it's, it's so fuckingcool man absolutely, and I think
.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
I think that's the reason why they keep.
Uh, you know, like we've seen,like in the last couple of
decades, trends, uh, tattootrends, to come and go, but like
, as we always say and everybodysays, you know, even stones
know that, like, traditionaltattoos are there for forever.
You know, I mean, you see, liketrends come and go, but
traditional tattoos are alwaysthere because they are like they
(05:50):
are forever.
You know, like, I don't know,it's just something about it
that keeps them alive all thetime.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
Yeah, classics never go out of style, absolutely.
You know, let's talk abouttraditional tattooals.
Tattoo the IG, okay, okay,because you know you started
that in what?
2017?
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Yeah, 2017.
That was the year I startedsharing tattoos.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
How did the account come about?
And you know it obviously kindof built pretty quickly and now
it's pretty much a go-toplatform for people to just be
able to look at traditionaltattoos and tattoo artists from
all over the world.
Um, so, kind of you know, tellus about the, the account and
how it all came together so,yeah, I have much to say to be
honest, but I'll try to be quick.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Um, when I so, when I , when I fell in love with
tattoos, I started to, you know,dig in and the only tool that I
had at the time you know I wasI had no, no knowledge at all.
The only tool, the first tool,that was my phone.
So I start digging on instagramand, of course, the first
things that came up they werethose big names of tattooing.
You know, I remember chadkoplinger and me, mike rubendahl
(06:58):
, all those guys, they werekilling it already.
But then, you know, as I startdigging, I've seen so many uh,
younger guys and new guys thatthey were.
They were putting like somevery cool uh tattoos, but you
know they had no fame or youknow they weren't known because
at the time it was not easy toto, to stand out from the crowd
(07:19):
because there was no instagram.
I mean, instagram was at thoseearly stages, they were only
magazine and it was a differentway of growing uh, within the
time.
So I said you know what I'mgonna?
I'm gonna start sharing tattoos.
And then once I shared a tattooof a very big, uh, big tattoo,
like big, uh, big name and hesaid you know what?
(07:39):
I don't like my, my tattoos tobeing on other people's page.
Just please don't share itanymore.
So I said you know what?
I'm gonna start sharing tattoosfrom those guys.
They deserve some, you know,like they do they.
They put in like very nice work, but they don't have their
recognition at the moment andyou know that that from that
time it just picked up andstarting to start growing
non-stop.
To be honest, nice, you knowfunny things.
(08:02):
At the beginning it used to beI used Nice, you know funny
things.
At the beginning I used to kindof get, I used to get a lot of
hate because at the beginningwith me and with my page, there
were so many pages that startedwith me but all those pages they
were charging tattooers to posttattoos on those platforms.
Really yeah, yeah yeah, and Inever done that.
So the tattoo industry was alittle bit upset.
(08:25):
They were hating on those pages.
They were benefiting whateverthey were making money out of
the tattooers.
So yeah, I kind of got a lot ofhate for that because I wasn't
posting like I'm not chargingguys, whatever.
I don't sell posts.
I think I did sometimes, butthe truth was that people were
(08:47):
thinking about my page likeeverybody else was doing.
You know, yeah.
But then you know, after youknow, after some years, I even
thought, like you know, thosewere the same people that used
to pay magazine to beadvertising those magazines, you
know.
So then you know, I don't know,it's a strange world, I can't
(09:09):
have a proper opinion about it.
But you know.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
There's parallels in the music industry as well,
because there's always, you know, you have a platform that's
awesome and that is done withstyle and done with respect, you
know.
So it's like, whenever there'sa lot of eyes on something like
that, there's always going to beall different types of people
who want to be involved.
There's people who arelike-minded, like you, who get
(09:35):
it, and it's all about the artand the trade and the craft and
the promotion and thecollaboration.
And then there's people whomight not necessarily get it and
promote it from like uh, youknow, like the way a major label
would pay a radio station toput their band on yeah, you know
what I mean.
It's like.
It's like there's people whojust don't get it, who are
always just gonna try that likehey, maybe I can buy my way into
(09:58):
this, yeah yeah, yeah, I mean,I understand.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
I mean, with years I got to understand many things I
didn't understand.
You know the early days when Istart to.
You know talking and readingabout tattoos, even you know
gatekeeping and things like this.
Know, with, with time and youknow researching and talking to
(10:27):
people.
Um, then you get it, you get itand you get why you know so
many things are like this.
They are meant to be like thatand are not meant to be, to be
changed.
You know, and sometimes it'snot about gatekeeping, sometimes
it's about the love and passionfor the craft and you don't
want that to go away.
The magic behind tattooing, youknow, and, yeah, if you know it
, you know it.
Magic behind tattooing, youknow.
Yeah, if you know it, you knowit.
And not many people get to knowthat and get to understand and
(10:51):
they just, you know, they seewhat they see and they say you
know that's gatekeeping and it'snot like that.
You know.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
Yeah, that's an interesting topic.
Let's dive into that a littlebit, Because the idea that you
know I was thinking about thistoday and I don't even know,
like if you had to take a wildguess, how many tattooers do you
think there are, like in theworld right now.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
Tattooers.
I mean tattooers.
I don't even know how to definetattooers, but I don't think
many people can be defined astattooers because some people
take it in a way, some peopletake it in another way.
There are musicians that take aguitar and read the notes and
(11:36):
just play it, and then there arepeople like you creating music.
You know diving into, you knowa specific style, loving the
style, doing the research of whya style is like that.
You know, not just taking itand copying it and paste.
You know it's a.
It's a very deep conversation,but I think I think it's
(11:58):
important to make somedifferences.
You know, again, my opinion.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
It's just tough.
It is an interesting thing yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Nowadays, I think there is no point to talk about
Amazon or to talk about you know, however you start, because you
know capitalism, or however youcall that.
It took over.
So it you know, for people tobe pushed back on that it's I
don't know, but that's not theway to approach tattooing,
(12:31):
that's for sure.
You know the way to approachtattooing.
I would think, if I mean if Iwould have to do, I would do my
research.
I would think about you knowall the, if I have any studio
around that I can go and get anapprenticeship or how you call
that, and you know I would dothings in the right way.
I mean it's, it's if, at the endof the day, if you want to
tattoo, if you want to put adesign on the skin, you can do
(12:54):
that, you know.
But there's much more aboutthat.
You know you want to be atattoo artist or you want to be
a tattooer, whatever.
But if you really fell in lovewith tattoos and you it's you
can't avoid that, you know.
Because if you fell in lovewith the craft, you're gonna go
through the history.
It's impossible not to go.
If you fell in love with thefirst thing you're gonna do,
(13:15):
you're gonna start digging intohistory and then you're gonna
start thinking about coloman,bob, showbert green, you know,
like a bar chef and all thesailors, and then it's
impossible not to fall in love.
And then, when you're gonnafall in love, I think it's like
it's mad, it's gonna come, it's.
It's a, it's a path that you'regonna.
You don't know it, you're gonnatake it.
You know't know it, you'regoing to take it, you know.
(13:35):
Then there is another way.
If you don't fall in love withtattoo, I think, and the only
thing you want is to look cooland to get some tattoos and make
a couple of bucks here andthere.
Then, of course, you know yourpath is the one to go on Amazon,
buy a machine and startscratching people inside the
kitchen.
You know, yeah, yeah yeah.
It's organic.
You know the good way, the goodpath.
(13:57):
I think it's organic, you don'tthink about it, and the love
and passion I think it will feedyour path and you can't avoid
that, you know.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Yeah, absolutely.
That's well said, man, wellsaid.
What do you think about peoplegoing under Anastasia?
For you know large pieces, youknow back pieces have been
worked on by, you know multipletattoo artists at a time.
You know a lot of like NBAplayers, you know football
players, stuff like that, thatcan kind of you know, basically
(14:29):
afford to do a process like that.
But there's also, you know,kind of going into what we're
talking about with gatekeeping.
There's that whole kind of oldschool mentality of you know you
should be present when you'regetting tattooed, so where do
you, where do you sit on on that?
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Yeah, I mean, those are people that are getting, you
know, bodysuit and I don't knowto which they run.
But you know, as far as I, asfar as I like, I think,
especially in traditionaltattooing, the best thing, I
mean, the good thing about it,is to collect it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yes, you gothere and you get a piece from
Paul Doberman.
Then you go to Spain, you go toMadrid, you get it from Vara,
(15:08):
and then you jump to Barcelona,you get it from Rafa, and then
you know Ferrara and whatever.
So then you collect those.
So there is no point for me toeach day, but it's no point for
me to just sit on a chair andget on the stage and get all the
boys because you know that'sthe good thing is to you know.
I can tell you, I remember whenI've done this one that I was
there and there and there, andthen you know when I've done
(15:29):
this.
So you collect tattoos and atsame time, experience, and with
different tattoo artists,different experience, know.
So that's a good thing.
It's not just drawing on yourbody, it's not that.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
You know, one thing I wanted to get into, which we
don't really get a chance to doa lot here, is, I thought, since
we have you on, you'veobviously got your ear to the
ground, you've got the platform,You've got the page.
You know, you know a lot ofgreat tattooers out there and
you know with know a lot ofgreat tattooers out there and
(16:00):
you know, with Sailor Jerry andtheir platform and the book
coming out, I just thought itwould be a really cool thing to
maybe highlight like fivetraditional tattooers that are
doing some work that you thinkis great or that people should
know about and follow, and ifthey've got an Instagram, we'll
make sure to link it in theepisode bio.
So who are some some tattooartists out there that you
(16:21):
really that you really like?
I mean?
Speaker 2 (16:23):
there are so many tattoos I could need so many,
but I mean, there is, my friendFrancesco Ferrara was killing it
yeah completely killing it.
I mean it's just you, friendFrancesco Ferraro, who's killing
it.
Yeah, completely killing it.
I mean it's just you know.
Go watch on Instagram and seewhat he's doing.
You know he's worth his picksby himself.
(16:48):
You know, like Sailor Jerryused to say, he's a badass.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
Yeah, I got a little dragon right there and you know
what, francesco?
Speaker 2 (17:00):
it's a very, very nice person.
It doesn't come across socialmedia the same way.
He's in real life.
It's a very, very nice person.
It's very cute.
It doesn't look like he's cute,but it's so cute.
So, yeah, people should gofollow him and definitely he's a
(17:20):
grinder dude.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
He works, he works non-stop dude.
He's always, always tattooingum and super, super bold uh, you
know colors.
Uh, and his, his, uh, you knowhis.
One thing I like about his pageis his, uh, his back piece
mission man you know, like he's,he's just on he's, he loves, he
(17:43):
loves doing back pieces andhe's got just multiple uh, you
know, multiple things going atonce and it's a really cool
follow.
So absolutely, that's, that's agreat one.
Francesco is no ipad.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
He calls me like 3 o'clock in the morning 3 o'clock
, you know, california time andhe's drawing until 4, 5 o'clock,
you know always drawing.
He makes his own pigments andhe tattoos and you know like
everything it's like handcrafted, handmade, and I love the Ryan.
Then there is Rafa, who's donemy neck here, Nice, rafa De
(18:20):
Crani.
He lives in Barcelona.
He owns the studio ChicaPantera.
I think Rafa, it's my age, Iguess he's 35 years old, and,
like Francesco, he already hasdone so much and he has his own
twist of traditional tattooingand it's special man, like he's
got something.
(18:40):
I mean he's got like an extra.
I think he's got an extra.
I don't know how he does it.
He always comes up with theflesh and design that are like
they make you go like whoa.
You know where did he come fromyou?
Speaker 1 (18:52):
know, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
It just goes growing and it surprised me all the time
and the amount of I mean he'sproducing so much.
You know, like the, the guyslike my age 35, I think when
he's gonna be 45 or 50, he'sgonna have like huge amount of
work done.
So he's definitely someone, uh,um, to be looked at and awesome
, awesome.
Well, I mean barra in madridMadrid, I think, is the big boss
, absolutely.
(19:18):
Do you know Bara from Madrid?
No, so I think Bara is like Idon't know if it's 50 now, 50 or
48, I don't know how old is he?
but he's definitely older thanme, pretty much.
So it's an absolute master.
Really, go check him out,because that guy it's a, it's a
(19:40):
I don't know.
I love what he does and uh, youknow that when you told to
people like, at least in europeand even in um in the states,
when I told to my friend, if,when you go like, tell me one
tattooer who, I mean if youwould have to say one tattooer
at the moment, like that'straditionally they all go like
barra, barra, barra, barra,barra.
(20:02):
So, and you know what, and it'sum, as rafa, and uh, and
francesco barrett's another guythat is always charming, he's
always smiling, he's alwayshappy to help.
It's like an amazing person.
So I consider that too.
When I, when you know, when Ihave to name someone so and I
got tattooed with him, it'salways an amazing person.
So I consider that too.
When I, when you know, when Ihave to name someone so and I
got tattooed with him, it'salways a nice experience too.
So, yeah, top.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
Awesome, give me two more, masha, two more that there
are not many like I mean pauldoberman, you know, you have uh.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
You have annie jorgensen, you have uh you know,
you have um chanka Julie.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
Mondi.
Hell yeah yeah, I got tattooedby Doberman Doberman's the best
man.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Yeah, and it's another guy that you know you
can't avoid to love him, becauseit's such a great person and
always, always available foranything, and he's so cute and
he's very nice all the time.
He's just a sweet guy, you knowlike yeah, absolutely, there
are many man like, especially inEurope.
(21:00):
You know, traditional tattooingused to be something that
people considered to be American, you know like.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
American stuff.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
But you know, like I think in the last couple of
decades we had Spain, italy.
They just exploded with thoseold traditional artists.
They're doing some very coolshit, man like a lot.
I think most of the reason why,for example, in.
Italy, like in Italy, it's fullof art.
And then people like, forexample, rome.
(21:29):
You go walking in Rome and yousee angels, you see eagles, you
see stuff, and then, if you're atraditional tattooer, it's
impossible not to get inspiredby that.
You know like people go walk inPhoenix and they see I don't
know skyscrapers.
If you go walk in Rome, you seeeverywhere like art.
You know, angels, eagles, youname it so so yeah uh, you name
(21:58):
it.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
So so, yeah, yeah, awesome.
Well, that's uh.
We appreciate your, your, uh,your insight there, and we'll
make sure to tag uh all of thesegreat artists in the uh in the
episode notes so people canfollow them on instagram.
Uh, what about uh?
What about music?
What kind of music?
You fuck with you.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Uh, you cut with everything I listen to
everything like dire street,pink floyd, queen and stuff like
that too.
Oh wow, two-pack biggie and uh,you know harry klepton, and I
listen to jazz, the blues.
I I'm not an expert but if I,if I had to go with uh, with the
band, I would go with direstreet and queen.
(22:30):
You know I actually got atattoo from uh the Queen logo
when I was 16 or 17, I don'tremember, I was um, I was pretty
in love with Freddie Mercuryand Queen.
But I listen pretty mucheverything you know, even like
Italian shitty music.
You know, at the end of the dayI they put it.
You know they push it in myhead with radio and when I go to
the gym and then you know Ilike it, I listen.
(22:52):
And then you know you, if yougo through my phone, you're
going to go from music fromSouth Italy like popular music
to, you know, lady Writer onDire Street, to Tupac.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
One of the things that I always loved about
getting tattooed and this kindof maybe goes back a little bit
to us talking about when youcollect tattoos and you get the
experience is the shopexperience too.
The shop experience is such acool thing to be aware of and
present of.
Along with that is the musicaware of and present of, and
along with that is the musicLike I always love when you go
(23:37):
into a tattoo shop, how musicplays such a big role and it's
like you know whoever's,whoever's fucking phone is
playing or whoever's got youknow whoever's taking turns,
djing, or this person's playlistis going today, or they have
one big playlist for the shopthat everybody adds to.
Music is such a it's such acool part of the tattooing
(23:58):
experience for me.
Uh, I always just love what'splaying in the shop and there's,
you know, sometimes it'sclassics and sometimes like
you're saying it's, it's, youknow shit you haven't heard
before, and that's like a doublewhammy for me, where I can go
in and get a bad-ass tattoo andcome out and be like fuck, like
what band was that that's?
awesome yeah, you know becausetattooers have great taste in
(24:20):
music, usually because theylisten to it all fucking day, so
they hear.
They hear a lot of stuff.
You know whether it's like oh,that sucks, change it, or that's
awesome.
You know who is that.
So I like how music andtattooing merges that way, you
know absolutely.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
It played a big part in tattooing as well.
You know like it wasunderground tattooing and music
always been a huge, a huge andthen for for the experience
thing it's like.
I think it's music you once put.
Music is that thing that putsmemory on a map, on a brain map.
Yes, I don't know if it makessense what I'm saying, but for
(25:00):
me a memory is always connectedto like.
The best memories are alwaysconnected to music because they
just complemented the experience.
Funny enough, I've never beento a proper concert and next
year I'm going to offspringconcert.
My mother just give me thetickets and you know what?
As I said, you know we talkedabout dire street queen, you
(25:22):
know italian music and now I'mgoing to the offspring concert,
yeah, so I like everything yeah,that's awesome.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
Yeah, I mean it's.
It's so true what you said,like I, I just you know, I, you
can imagine, everyone has thosemoments where you know if you're
, if you're getting tattooed andyou know bohemian rhapsodies on
or whatever songs come on likeyou're gonna remember that, you
know you're, you're gonnaremember that.
It's gonna be a moment that youwon't forget and and that's
what it's all about, you know,absolutely, I mean yes, it's you
(25:54):
.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
You go back in time when you listen to, I mean,
every song, many songs that Ilike.
They're always related to apiece of memory I have, you know
, and I can go back in time andI can smell the same smell that
I smelled that time and I feelthe same feeling and it's
unbelievable smell that time andI feel the same feeling and
(26:17):
it's it's unbelievable.
But it's true, you know, like Ilisten to a lot of kind of
music, but there are some, youknow some bands and some song
that whenever I listen to themit gets me, you know like you go
like, wow, you know, that's,that's what I really like.
You know that, what really getsme, you know yeah, yeah, uh,
tell us about tiger spit.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
Yeah, you know what?
Uh?
When did that come into uhexistence and and how did you
dream that up so um?
Speaker 2 (26:43):
yeah, as a, as I told you before, I was in london
doing, uh, I was general managerfor, you know I was doing
hospitality and stuff and, uh,as the page started to grow,
grow, I started to get to, youknow, many tattooers that became
my friend and I was like man.
Everybody, all my friends, theywere like man, you should do
(27:03):
something, you should try to,should do something and try to
work and do something that couldbe related to tattoo.
Because you're doing it already, supporting so many projects,
because at the time I was likesupporting any project I could
within my page.
You know, I'm giving myplatform to whatever was at the
time a good idea to do so.
Then I said you know what?
(27:24):
I was very shitty at drawingand I said tattooing is not
gonna be my thing.
So I was with with my wife,andrea, we, we talked about
creating an aftercare and it'sbeen really tough because it was
self-funded we never borrowmoney for anyone or bank and
(27:45):
stuff.
And then you know, slowly,slowly, I remember I, samuel
preganti, drew my logo.
I said I got in touch with him.
I said, man, I need to.
I want to make an aftercarecream, a tattoo balm and stuff
and I need a logo.
So he sat down there and made alogo and I was ready to start
(28:05):
working on it.
It's been tough because it wasvery difficult.
I mean, I didn't know anythingabout cosmetic and stuff.
So I started studying, me andmy wife.
We studied a lot and thenslowly picked up, and thanks to
the help of all my friends youknow all the friends I made
within tattooing I was able toget to this point.
You know, and I give that's whyI'm trying all the time.
(28:29):
I feel like I own tattooingsomething and I always try to
give back to tattooing becausethanks to tattooing now I can
make a living, you know, and Itry to make it in a respectful
way, not to cross the line.
I keep in mind all the time I'mnot a tattooer, someone
outsider, and I live offtattooing.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
So anytime I can support project anywhere around,
I always do it, you know yeah,that's awesome, man, that's
awesome, and, and and in turn,you know it, it's cool that you
are getting, you know, the loveand support and respect back
Everybody you know, if you can,if you've got the means to go
support, you know, tiger SpitAftercare Definitely want to
(29:10):
keep, you know, promoting peoplewithin the within the industry
man who give a shit about what'sgoing on.
So, absolutely, um, let's do alittle, uh, a little flash
battle here, okay I'm gonna name.
I'm gonna name some, uh, somekind of traditional flash, uh,
and you tell me which, whichimage you prefer.
Okay, uh, let's go.
(29:30):
Let's go.
Snake versus dragon DragonDragon.
What about tiger versus panther?
Tiger Wizard versus Grim Reaper.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Grim Reaper, absolutely 100%.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
Horseshoe or lucky dice Horseshoe, Ooh nice Skull.
Or flowers Skull all the time.
Yeah, I love skull.
What about spiderwebs?
Or pinup girl?
Speaker 2 (29:59):
I love pinups, but I love spiderwebs as well.
What about you?
Speaker 1 (30:03):
I go spiderweb, I go spiderwebs.
Spiderwebs are hard dude.
Spiderwebs are awesome.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
Yeah, even because they're always done in very,
very painful spots, you know.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've never, you know, I've been
wanting to get a pinup girl.
That's one thing that I don'thave, that you know there's so
many great.
You know, specifically SailorJerry flashes of, but yeah, I
just haven't gotten there yet.
What about if you had to goback piece battle, if you had to
go battle royal or rock of ages?
What do you go?
Rock of ages, yeah, yeah, yeah,rock of ages is tight, uh, okay
(30:41):
, just a couple more questionshere.
Uh, let's do a hypothetical foryou, masha.
Uh, a time machine, okay.
Uh, we're gonna have a timemachine show up outside of your
place.
Uh, you know, someone awesomegets out of it and says hey, you
know, here's the deal, masha,you go anywhere in history, okay
(31:02):
, anytime.
Where are you going to go firstand why?
Speaker 2 (31:07):
Let's be romantic, let's not think about money,
because if I would go back intime, I would go back in time,
you know, when Bitcoin firststarted.
You know I would buy like 10Kof Bitcoin.
I would go back in time.
I would go back in time, youknow, when Bitcoin first started
.
You know I would buy like 10Kof Bitcoins a million today.
But you know, to be romantic, Ithink I always get so.
I'm always fascinated.
When I saw those movies, youknow like I remember when I
(31:27):
watched, you know, johnDillinger, the Public Enemy with
Johnny Depp, and have youwatched that movie?
Yeah, when I see those kind ofmovies, when I see all this
style and you know those years,everything was different, even
music.
When you went to the pub or youwent to listen to music, it was
a different, you know, adifferent environment.
(31:50):
Everything was a little bitmore chilled.
You were taking time to enjoyeverything you know, a different
environment.
Everything was a little bitmore chilled.
You were taking time to enjoyeverything you know and there
was not.
This now you have.
I mean, the input of contentand music and imagery is like
pushed into your mouth and yourhead constantly.
(32:11):
At the time it was everythinghad a time.
You went to the pub, youenjoyed your drink and you
listened to the music and youhad this conversation and you
were on the spot every time.
So I wish I could have triedthat kind of living and see
what's the difference, becauseas far as I'm concerned for
(32:31):
myself, I'm never in one placeat the same time.
You know, I'm always like twophones, speaking with someone
reading this, thinking anotherthing, and you know I wish I
could ever try that one.
You know the way they pictureit in the movie even uh, it's,
it's different, it's likeromantic, I don't know it's.
(32:52):
Uh, it gives me.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
You know, I wish I could try that yeah, yeah, you
want to slow down and and enjoythe moment a little bit.
Yeah, I like that.
I like that absolutely, man.
Uh.
Okay, uh, last question here,masha, uh really appreciate uh
your time today, my man.
Uh, this has been awesomerapping with you.
What to you is the meaning oflife?
Speaker 2 (33:16):
I think the meaning of life is to learn to be a
better version of yourself andbe prepared for what's coming
next.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
I think we come here to learn.
You know, even when the shithit the fan, there is always a
reason.
That means we had to be, we hadto learn something and be and
grow within those experience.
And yeah, I think the meaningof life is to learn and to grow
within yourself and to be abetter person or a better
(33:49):
version of yourself.
You know, in Italy we say I'mgoing gonna translate it be good
and forget about it, be bad andthink you know.
In other words, you know, bekind to people and just don't
expect anything from others andbe bad and always remember what
you, what you've done, you know.
(34:11):
So I think that's the missiontry the best version of yourself
awesome man.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
Can you say that in italian?
Speaker 2 (34:19):
let's get some italian on the podcast you want
some italian, but you want theitalian yeah, give me the, give
me the italian I don't know whatthe fuck man.
There is this thing.
My TikTok is full of those shitthat people I don't know there
is this kind of love for ItalianAmerican people.
(34:42):
We don't talk like you think,guys.
We don't speak like we don'thave spaghetti meatball.
It doesn't exist, man, it's not.
We don't have it in Italy.
They, I don't have it in italy.
They, they like, I don't know,like even the, the accent, you
know, they, just you know, Ithink it's something, it's
something different.
You know, it's true, we talkwith our hands.
(35:04):
You know like I'm listen, thisman I'm managing in london used
to.
When I first went to londonmanager I had manager.
So this manager used to do thisto me.
It was coming to me blocking myhands, like that, and it was
like speak now and I couldn't.
I felt so wrong man, because ifI couldn't move my hand I
(35:27):
couldn't talk.
But yeah, they did this thinglike forget about it.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
That's fucking great man.
Awesome, masha.
Well, we appreciate your timehere on the Sailor Jerry podcast
.
Thank you for having meHomeward Bound is out now,
ladies and gentlemen,traditional tattoos, go get the
book, give Masha a follow,support everything he's doing.
Yeah, man, just thank you somuch for your time today, really
(35:53):
appreciate it, brother, thanksfor having me.
What's up, masha?
Speaker 2 (00:01):
Traditionals tattoo fucking Tiger's Fit.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Balm aftercare in the house, Sailor Jerry podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Long time coming.
What's up my man?
How are you?
Yeah man, yeah man, prettyhyped, yeah excited.
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Hell yeah, man, Hell yeah and yeah.
It's about time that we getsome Italian love on the podcast
.
You know, what can you tell usabout your italy growing?
Speaker 2 (00:29):
up in italy.
Uh, what can you tell us aboutit?
Pretty much, I grew up in thesouth I mean, I was born in rome
, okay, so my mother?
is from my father from southitaly, so I was born in rome,
grew up in the south um, inpuglia, which is the you know
italy is like a boot.
So I grew up in the top of thehill, you know the boot.
So at the last very south.
(00:50):
But I can't tell you muchbecause when I was 19, I moved
out to England, to UK, and Imoved out to London.
I've been living like 12 yearsthere and then I moved out to
Spain.
I can't tell you much, to behonest, because you know like
I've been living like 12 yearsthere and then I moved out to
Spain.
I can't tell you much, to behonest, because you know like
I've been.
I remember like seven, eightyear max.
You know I just enjoyed withmotorbikes and having fun with
(01:12):
that with friends at school, butnot much, to be honest you know
, when was the real fun?
when the 19 years old, I movedout, I went to UK and was like I
used to grew up in a smallvillage down in Italy and I
couldn't see much to be honest,like 10 000 people living here,
which now I'm living in.
I came back to be honest and sofor me it was like a blow on my
(01:34):
mind when I went to live inlondon.
Really, then that's when Idiscovered basically my, my
passion for tattoos, you knowyeah, awesome, everything came
together in london.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
That's sick.
How did you know the the, thekind of bigger picture of
tattooing, come into your world?
Speaker 2 (01:51):
it was pretty.
I mean it's, it's funny.
You know, it's a kind of funny,a strange situation, because I
used to be I used to be ageneral manager in a sushi place
, in a sushi restaurant inlondon, and I remember in soho,
I was in in Broadway Street inSoho and I remember like every
single night there was a guy,was a man, a guy, whatever, he
used to come and buy those youknow sushi from us and this guy
(02:15):
had a unique style.
It was so cool.
It was, you know, it had thataura that he had.
It was amazing.
So then I discovered it was.
It was Dante, which is.
I discovered he was uh, uh, itwas dante which is the owner
from free street, uh, in londonyou know the studio, free street
.
Yeah, yeah.
So it was dante.
This guy was coming to.
It was, and I wanted to knowwhat is this guy doing.
(02:36):
And then, you know, talking andchatting, he said you know, I
own a studio just around thecorner, blah, blah, blah.
So I went there and stefanofrom free street tattooed me the
first flesh of sailor jerry,which is, and then from from
that time it was just like nostop.
I started getting flesh ofsailor jerry flashes all over
and I just fell in love, youknow, and that's it nice.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
What was the first?
Uh, sailor jerry flash, you gotso from stefano.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
I got like a pilot here, nice uh, and then I have
many.
To be honest, I got the anyafrom sailor jerry.
I got the eagle.
I got, I got two eagle.
I got many flashes of sailorjerry.
I love sailor jerry yeah, it's,uh, it's.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
It's pretty fucking timeless and we got uh, you know
, we got this book right here.
That is out, I have it, yeah.
Yeah, let's see where you gotit where you yeah, yeah yeah,
yeah, it's, uh, it's reallyreally amazing.
Uh.
You know original press here,uh, homeward round.
(03:38):
Uh, you know the life and timesof sailor jerry and it's out
now as of the airing of thispodcast.
It is out um incredible book uhyou know just some amazing
stories and photos in here.
You obviously got a love for,say, the jerry.
Yeah.
What do you think about hislegacy when it comes to
traditional tattoos?
Speaker 2 (03:58):
obviously I always like I always talk as a
passionate.
You know I'm not a tattooer, soI try to respect as much as I
can.
Like I always talk as apassionate.
You know I'm not a tattooist,so I try to respect as much as I
can and giving opinion.
You know, for for as much as Ias I breathe and leave the
tattoo world and Sailor Jerrywithin, I think Sailor Jerry is
what made tattoos andtraditional tattoos known all
around the world.
It was that the spark that said, you know, like traditional
(04:21):
tattoos are cool and everybodystarted getting tattooed because
you know, when he came up withthose, uh, I don't know how many
flesh sheets, uh, those werethe first tattoos.
They were, you know, prettymuch aesthetically very nice and
liked by anyone.
I mean nobody could say you know, I don't like it, you know
because before that it wasdifferent, different style and
you know, it was really good atreally really good at drawing
(04:44):
and painting.
So it was like boom.
It was like, I think, like heupgraded like a thousand percent
what was done before.
He made it for everyone andworldwide known.
So that was the.
That was the thing, I thinkit's an interesting conversation
we're having.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Like you're saying, you know you come from just kind
of an outsider place ofartistic respect for the trade
and the craft and it's reallycool because just artistically
you know, from the customer side, so to speak, from someone who
walks in and sees that old flashon the wall and sees those
designs and see how timelessthey are I mean there's just
(05:24):
nothing like it.
You know what I mean's.
It's, it's, it's so fuckingcool man absolutely, and I think
.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
I think that's the reason why they keep.
Uh, you know, like we've seen,like in the last couple of
decades, trends, uh, tattootrends, to come and go, but like
, as we always say and everybodysays, you know, even stones
know that, like, traditionaltattoos are there for forever.
You know, I mean, you see, liketrends come and go, but
traditional tattoos are alwaysthere because they are like they
(05:50):
are forever.
You know, like, I don't know,it's just something about it
that keeps them alive all thetime.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
Yeah, classics never go out of style, absolutely.
You know, let's talk abouttraditional tattooals.
Tattoo the IG, okay, okay,because you know you started
that in what?
2017?
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Yeah, 2017.
That was the year I startedsharing tattoos.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
How did the account come about?
And you know it obviously kindof built pretty quickly and now
it's pretty much a go-toplatform for people to just be
able to look at traditionaltattoos and tattoo artists from
all over the world.
Um, so, kind of you know, tellus about the, the account and
how it all came together so,yeah, I have much to say to be
honest, but I'll try to be quick.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Um, when I so, when I , when I fell in love with
tattoos, I started to, you know,dig in and the only tool that I
had at the time you know I wasI had no, no knowledge at all.
The only tool, the first tool,that was my phone.
So I start digging on instagramand, of course, the first
things that came up they werethose big names of tattooing.
You know, I remember chadkoplinger and me, mike rubendahl
(06:58):
, all those guys, they werekilling it already.
But then, you know, as I startdigging, I've seen so many uh,
younger guys and new guys thatthey were.
They were putting like somevery cool uh tattoos, but you
know they had no fame or youknow they weren't known because
at the time it was not easy toto, to stand out from the crowd
(07:19):
because there was no instagram.
I mean, instagram was at thoseearly stages, they were only
magazine and it was a differentway of growing uh, within the
time.
So I said you know what I'mgonna?
I'm gonna start sharing tattoos.
And then once I shared a tattooof a very big, uh, big tattoo,
like big, uh, big name and hesaid you know what?
(07:39):
I don't like my, my tattoos tobeing on other people's page.
Just please don't share itanymore.
So I said you know what?
I'm gonna start sharing tattoosfrom those guys.
They deserve some, you know,like they do they.
They put in like very nice work, but they don't have their
recognition at the moment andyou know that that from that
time it just picked up andstarting to start growing
non-stop.
To be honest, nice, you knowfunny things.
(08:02):
At the beginning it used to beI used Nice, you know funny
things.
At the beginning I used to kindof get, I used to get a lot of
hate because at the beginningwith me and with my page, there
were so many pages that startedwith me but all those pages they
were charging tattooers to posttattoos on those platforms.
Really yeah, yeah yeah, and Inever done that.
So the tattoo industry was alittle bit upset.
(08:25):
They were hating on those pages.
They were benefiting whateverthey were making money out of
the tattooers.
So yeah, I kind of got a lot ofhate for that because I wasn't
posting like I'm not chargingguys, whatever.
I don't sell posts.
I think I did sometimes, butthe truth was that people were
(08:47):
thinking about my page likeeverybody else was doing.
You know, yeah.
But then you know, after youknow, after some years, I even
thought, like you know, thosewere the same people that used
to pay magazine to beadvertising those magazines, you
know.
So then you know, I don't know,it's a strange world, I can't
(09:09):
have a proper opinion about it.
But you know.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
There's parallels in the music industry as well,
because there's always, you know, you have a platform that's
awesome and that is done withstyle and done with respect, you
know.
So it's like, whenever there'sa lot of eyes on something like
that, there's always going to beall different types of people
who want to be involved.
There's people who arelike-minded, like you, who get
(09:35):
it, and it's all about the artand the trade and the craft and
the promotion and thecollaboration.
And then there's people whomight not necessarily get it and
promote it from like uh, youknow, like the way a major label
would pay a radio station toput their band on yeah, you know
what I mean.
It's like.
It's like there's people whojust don't get it, who are
always just gonna try that likehey, maybe I can buy my way into
(09:58):
this, yeah yeah, yeah, I mean,I understand.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
I mean, with years I got to understand many things I
didn't understand.
You know the early days when Istart to.
You know talking and readingabout tattoos, even you know
gatekeeping and things like this.
Know, with, with time and youknow researching and talking to
(10:27):
people.
Um, then you get it, you get itand you get why you know so
many things are like this.
They are meant to be like thatand are not meant to be, to be
changed.
You know, and sometimes it'snot about gatekeeping, sometimes
it's about the love and passionfor the craft and you don't
want that to go away.
The magic behind tattooing, youknow, and, yeah, if you know it
, you know it.
Magic behind tattooing, youknow.
Yeah, if you know it, you knowit.
And not many people get to knowthat and get to understand and
(10:51):
they just, you know, they seewhat they see and they say you
know that's gatekeeping and it'snot like that.
You know.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
Yeah, that's an interesting topic.
Let's dive into that a littlebit, Because the idea that you
know I was thinking about thistoday and I don't even know,
like if you had to take a wildguess, how many tattooers do you
think there are, like in theworld right now.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
Tattooers.
I mean tattooers.
I don't even know how to definetattooers, but I don't think
many people can be defined astattooers because some people
take it in a way, some peopletake it in another way.
There are musicians that take aguitar and read the notes and
(11:36):
just play it, and then there arepeople like you creating music.
You know diving into, you knowa specific style, loving the
style, doing the research of whya style is like that.
You know, not just taking itand copying it and paste.
You know it's a.
It's a very deep conversation,but I think I think it's
(11:58):
important to make somedifferences.
You know, again, my opinion.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
It's just tough.
It is an interesting thing yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Nowadays, I think there is no point to talk about
Amazon or to talk about you know, however you start, because you
know capitalism, or however youcall that.
It took over.
So it you know, for people tobe pushed back on that it's I
don't know, but that's not theway to approach tattooing,
(12:31):
that's for sure.
You know the way to approachtattooing.
I would think, if I mean if Iwould have to do, I would do my
research.
I would think about you knowall the, if I have any studio
around that I can go and get anapprenticeship or how you call
that, and you know I would dothings in the right way.
I mean it's, it's if, at the endof the day, if you want to
tattoo, if you want to put adesign on the skin, you can do
(12:54):
that, you know.
But there's much more aboutthat.
You know you want to be atattoo artist or you want to be
a tattooer, whatever.
But if you really fell in lovewith tattoos and you it's you
can't avoid that, you know.
Because if you fell in lovewith the craft, you're gonna go
through the history.
It's impossible not to go.
If you fell in love with thefirst thing you're gonna do,
(13:15):
you're gonna start digging intohistory and then you're gonna
start thinking about coloman,bob, showbert green, you know,
like a bar chef and all thesailors, and then it's
impossible not to fall in love.
And then, when you're gonnafall in love, I think it's like
it's mad, it's gonna come, it's.
It's a, it's a path that you'regonna.
You don't know it, you're gonnatake it.
You know't know it, you'regoing to take it, you know.
(13:35):
Then there is another way.
If you don't fall in love withtattoo, I think, and the only
thing you want is to look cooland to get some tattoos and make
a couple of bucks here andthere.
Then, of course, you know yourpath is the one to go on Amazon,
buy a machine and startscratching people inside the
kitchen.
You know, yeah, yeah yeah.
It's organic.
You know the good way, the goodpath.
(13:57):
I think it's organic, you don'tthink about it, and the love
and passion I think it will feedyour path and you can't avoid
that, you know.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Yeah, absolutely.
That's well said, man, wellsaid.
What do you think about peoplegoing under Anastasia?
For you know large pieces, youknow back pieces have been
worked on by, you know multipletattoo artists at a time.
You know a lot of like NBAplayers, you know football
players, stuff like that, thatcan kind of you know, basically
(14:29):
afford to do a process like that.
But there's also, you know,kind of going into what we're
talking about with gatekeeping.
There's that whole kind of oldschool mentality of you know you
should be present when you'regetting tattooed, so where do
you, where do you sit on on that?
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Yeah, I mean, those are people that are getting, you
know, bodysuit and I don't knowto which they run.
But you know, as far as I, asfar as I like, I think,
especially in traditionaltattooing, the best thing, I
mean, the good thing about it,is to collect it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yes, you gothere and you get a piece from
Paul Doberman.
Then you go to Spain, you go toMadrid, you get it from Vara,
(15:08):
and then you jump to Barcelona,you get it from Rafa, and then
you know Ferrara and whatever.
So then you collect those.
So there is no point for me toeach day, but it's no point for
me to just sit on a chair andget on the stage and get all the
boys because you know that'sthe good thing is to you know.
I can tell you, I remember whenI've done this one that I was
there and there and there, andthen you know when I've done
(15:29):
this.
So you collect tattoos and atsame time, experience, and with
different tattoo artists,different experience, know.
So that's a good thing.
It's not just drawing on yourbody, it's not that.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
You know, one thing I wanted to get into, which we
don't really get a chance to doa lot here, is, I thought, since
we have you on, you'veobviously got your ear to the
ground, you've got the platform,You've got the page.
You know, you know a lot ofgreat tattooers out there and
you know with know a lot ofgreat tattooers out there and
(16:00):
you know, with Sailor Jerry andtheir platform and the book
coming out, I just thought itwould be a really cool thing to
maybe highlight like fivetraditional tattooers that are
doing some work that you thinkis great or that people should
know about and follow, and ifthey've got an Instagram, we'll
make sure to link it in theepisode bio.
So who are some some tattooartists out there that you
(16:21):
really that you really like?
I mean?
Speaker 2 (16:23):
there are so many tattoos I could need so many,
but I mean, there is, my friendFrancesco Ferrara was killing it
yeah completely killing it.
I mean it's just you, friendFrancesco Ferraro, who's killing
it.
Yeah, completely killing it.
I mean it's just you know.
Go watch on Instagram and seewhat he's doing.
You know he's worth his picksby himself.
(16:48):
You know, like Sailor Jerryused to say, he's a badass.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
Yeah, I got a little dragon right there and you know
what, francesco?
Speaker 2 (17:00):
it's a very, very nice person.
It doesn't come across socialmedia the same way.
He's in real life.
It's a very, very nice person.
It's very cute.
It doesn't look like he's cute,but it's so cute.
So, yeah, people should gofollow him and definitely he's a
(17:20):
grinder dude.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
He works, he works non-stop dude.
He's always, always tattooingum and super, super bold uh, you
know colors.
Uh, and his, his, uh, you knowhis.
One thing I like about his pageis his, uh, his back piece
mission man you know, like he's,he's just on he's, he loves, he
(17:43):
loves doing back pieces andhe's got just multiple uh, you
know, multiple things going atonce and it's a really cool
follow.
So absolutely, that's, that's agreat one.
Francesco is no ipad.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
He calls me like 3 o'clock in the morning 3 o'clock
, you know, california time andhe's drawing until 4, 5 o'clock,
you know always drawing.
He makes his own pigments andhe tattoos and you know like
everything it's like handcrafted, handmade, and I love the Ryan.
Then there is Rafa, who's donemy neck here, Nice, rafa De
(18:20):
Crani.
He lives in Barcelona.
He owns the studio ChicaPantera.
I think Rafa, it's my age, Iguess he's 35 years old, and,
like Francesco, he already hasdone so much and he has his own
twist of traditional tattooingand it's special man, like he's
got something.
(18:40):
I mean he's got like an extra.
I think he's got an extra.
I don't know how he does it.
He always comes up with theflesh and design that are like
they make you go like whoa.
You know where did he come fromyou?
Speaker 1 (18:52):
know, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
It just goes growing and it surprised me all the time
and the amount of I mean he'sproducing so much.
You know, like the, the guyslike my age 35, I think when
he's gonna be 45 or 50, he'sgonna have like huge amount of
work done.
So he's definitely someone, uh,um, to be looked at and awesome
, awesome.
Well, I mean barra in madridMadrid, I think, is the big boss
, absolutely.
(19:18):
Do you know Bara from Madrid?
No, so I think Bara is like Idon't know if it's 50 now, 50 or
48, I don't know how old is he?
but he's definitely older thanme, pretty much.
So it's an absolute master.
Really, go check him out,because that guy it's a, it's a
(19:40):
I don't know.
I love what he does and uh, youknow that when you told to
people like, at least in europeand even in um in the states,
when I told to my friend, if,when you go like, tell me one
tattooer who, I mean if youwould have to say one tattooer
at the moment, like that'straditionally they all go like
barra, barra, barra, barra,barra.
(20:02):
So, and you know what, and it'sum, as rafa, and uh, and
francesco barrett's another guythat is always charming, he's
always smiling, he's alwayshappy to help.
It's like an amazing person.
So I consider that too.
When I, when you know, when Ihave to name someone so and I
got tattooed with him, it'salways an amazing person.
So I consider that too.
When I, when you know, when Ihave to name someone so and I
got tattooed with him, it'salways a nice experience too.
So, yeah, top.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
Awesome, give me two more, masha, two more that there
are not many like I mean pauldoberman, you know, you have uh.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
You have annie jorgensen, you have uh you know,
you have um chanka Julie.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
Mondi.
Hell yeah yeah, I got tattooedby Doberman Doberman's the best
man.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Yeah, and it's another guy that you know you
can't avoid to love him, becauseit's such a great person and
always, always available foranything, and he's so cute and
he's very nice all the time.
He's just a sweet guy, you knowlike yeah, absolutely, there
are many man like, especially inEurope.
(21:00):
You know, traditional tattooingused to be something that
people considered to be American, you know like.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
American stuff.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
But you know, like I think in the last couple of
decades we had Spain, italy.
They just exploded with thoseold traditional artists.
They're doing some very coolshit, man like a lot.
I think most of the reason why,for example, in.
Italy, like in Italy, it's fullof art.
And then people like, forexample, rome.
(21:29):
You go walking in Rome and yousee angels, you see eagles, you
see stuff, and then, if you're atraditional tattooer, it's
impossible not to get inspiredby that.
You know like people go walk inPhoenix and they see I don't
know skyscrapers.
If you go walk in Rome, you seeeverywhere like art.
You know, angels, eagles, youname it so so yeah uh, you name
(21:58):
it.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
So so, yeah, yeah, awesome.
Well, that's uh.
We appreciate your, your, uh,your insight there, and we'll
make sure to tag uh all of thesegreat artists in the uh in the
episode notes so people canfollow them on instagram.
Uh, what about uh?
What about music?
What kind of music?
You fuck with you.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Uh, you cut with everything I listen to
everything like dire street,pink floyd, queen and stuff like
that too.
Oh wow, two-pack biggie and uh,you know harry klepton, and I
listen to jazz, the blues.
I I'm not an expert but if I,if I had to go with uh, with the
band, I would go with direstreet and queen.
(22:30):
You know I actually got atattoo from uh the Queen logo
when I was 16 or 17, I don'tremember, I was um, I was pretty
in love with Freddie Mercuryand Queen.
But I listen pretty mucheverything you know, even like
Italian shitty music.
You know, at the end of the dayI they put it.
You know they push it in myhead with radio and when I go to
the gym and then you know Ilike it, I listen.
(22:52):
And then you know you, if yougo through my phone, you're
going to go from music fromSouth Italy like popular music
to, you know, lady Writer onDire Street, to Tupac.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
One of the things that I always loved about
getting tattooed and this kindof maybe goes back a little bit
to us talking about when youcollect tattoos and you get the
experience is the shopexperience too.
The shop experience is such acool thing to be aware of and
present of.
Along with that is the musicaware of and present of, and
along with that is the musicLike I always love when you go
(23:37):
into a tattoo shop, how musicplays such a big role and it's
like you know whoever's,whoever's fucking phone is
playing or whoever's got youknow whoever's taking turns,
djing, or this person's playlistis going today, or they have
one big playlist for the shopthat everybody adds to.
Music is such a it's such acool part of the tattooing
(23:58):
experience for me.
Uh, I always just love what'splaying in the shop and there's,
you know, sometimes it'sclassics and sometimes like
you're saying it's, it's, youknow shit you haven't heard
before, and that's like a doublewhammy for me, where I can go
in and get a bad-ass tattoo andcome out and be like fuck, like
what band was that that's?
awesome yeah, you know becausetattooers have great taste in
(24:20):
music, usually because theylisten to it all fucking day, so
they hear.
They hear a lot of stuff.
You know whether it's like oh,that sucks, change it, or that's
awesome.
You know who is that.
So I like how music andtattooing merges that way, you
know absolutely.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
It played a big part in tattooing as well.
You know like it wasunderground tattooing and music
always been a huge, a huge andthen for for the experience
thing it's like.
I think it's music you once put.
Music is that thing that putsmemory on a map, on a brain map.
Yes, I don't know if it makessense what I'm saying, but for
(25:00):
me a memory is always connectedto like.
The best memories are alwaysconnected to music because they
just complemented the experience.
Funny enough, I've never beento a proper concert and next
year I'm going to offspringconcert.
My mother just give me thetickets and you know what?
As I said, you know we talkedabout dire street queen, you
(25:22):
know italian music and now I'mgoing to the offspring concert,
yeah, so I like everything yeah,that's awesome.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
Yeah, I mean it's.
It's so true what you said,like I, I just you know, I, you
can imagine, everyone has thosemoments where you know if you're
, if you're getting tattooed andyou know bohemian rhapsodies on
or whatever songs come on likeyou're gonna remember that, you
know you're, you're gonnaremember that.
It's gonna be a moment that youwon't forget and and that's
what it's all about, you know,absolutely, I mean yes, it's you
(25:54):
.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
You go back in time when you listen to, I mean,
every song, many songs that Ilike.
They're always related to apiece of memory I have, you know
, and I can go back in time andI can smell the same smell that
I smelled that time and I feelthe same feeling and it's
unbelievable smell that time andI feel the same feeling and
(26:17):
it's it's unbelievable.
But it's true, you know, like Ilisten to a lot of kind of
music, but there are some, youknow some bands and some song
that whenever I listen to themit gets me, you know like you go
like, wow, you know, that's,that's what I really like.
You know that, what really getsme, you know yeah, yeah, uh,
tell us about tiger spit.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
Yeah, you know what?
Uh?
When did that come into uhexistence and and how did you
dream that up so um?
Speaker 2 (26:43):
yeah, as a, as I told you before, I was in london
doing, uh, I was general managerfor, you know I was doing
hospitality and stuff and, uh,as the page started to grow,
grow, I started to get to, youknow, many tattooers that became
my friend and I was like man.
Everybody, all my friends, theywere like man, you should do
(27:03):
something, you should try to,should do something and try to
work and do something that couldbe related to tattoo.
Because you're doing it already, supporting so many projects,
because at the time I was likesupporting any project I could
within my page.
You know, I'm giving myplatform to whatever was at the
time a good idea to do so.
Then I said you know what?
(27:24):
I was very shitty at drawingand I said tattooing is not
gonna be my thing.
So I was with with my wife,andrea, we, we talked about
creating an aftercare and it'sbeen really tough because it was
self-funded we never borrowmoney for anyone or bank and
(27:45):
stuff.
And then you know, slowly,slowly, I remember I, samuel
preganti, drew my logo.
I said I got in touch with him.
I said, man, I need to.
I want to make an aftercarecream, a tattoo balm and stuff
and I need a logo.
So he sat down there and made alogo and I was ready to start
(28:05):
working on it.
It's been tough because it wasvery difficult.
I mean, I didn't know anythingabout cosmetic and stuff.
So I started studying, me andmy wife.
We studied a lot and thenslowly picked up, and thanks to
the help of all my friends youknow all the friends I made
within tattooing I was able toget to this point.
You know, and I give that's whyI'm trying all the time.
(28:29):
I feel like I own tattooingsomething and I always try to
give back to tattooing becausethanks to tattooing now I can
make a living, you know, and Itry to make it in a respectful
way, not to cross the line.
I keep in mind all the time I'mnot a tattooer, someone
outsider, and I live offtattooing.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
So anytime I can support project anywhere around,
I always do it, you know yeah,that's awesome, man, that's
awesome, and, and and in turn,you know it, it's cool that you
are getting, you know, the loveand support and respect back
Everybody you know, if you can,if you've got the means to go
support, you know, tiger SpitAftercare Definitely want to
(29:10):
keep, you know, promoting peoplewithin the within the industry
man who give a shit about what'sgoing on.
So, absolutely, um, let's do alittle, uh, a little flash
battle here, okay I'm gonna name.
I'm gonna name some, uh, somekind of traditional flash, uh,
and you tell me which, whichimage you prefer.
Okay, uh, let's go.
(29:30):
Let's go.
Snake versus dragon DragonDragon.
What about tiger versus panther?
Tiger Wizard versus Grim Reaper.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Grim Reaper, absolutely 100%.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
Horseshoe or lucky dice Horseshoe, Ooh nice Skull.
Or flowers Skull all the time.
Yeah, I love skull.
What about spiderwebs?
Or pinup girl?
Speaker 2 (29:59):
I love pinups, but I love spiderwebs as well.
What about you?
Speaker 1 (30:03):
I go spiderweb, I go spiderwebs.
Spiderwebs are hard dude.
Spiderwebs are awesome.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
Yeah, even because they're always done in very,
very painful spots, you know.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've never, you know, I've been
wanting to get a pinup girl.
That's one thing that I don'thave, that you know there's so
many great.
You know, specifically SailorJerry flashes of, but yeah, I
just haven't gotten there yet.
What about if you had to goback piece battle, if you had to
go battle royal or rock of ages?
What do you go?
Rock of ages, yeah, yeah, yeah,rock of ages is tight, uh, okay
(30:41):
, just a couple more questionshere.
Uh, let's do a hypothetical foryou, masha.
Uh, a time machine, okay.
Uh, we're gonna have a timemachine show up outside of your
place.
Uh, you know, someone awesomegets out of it and says hey, you
know, here's the deal, masha,you go anywhere in history, okay
(31:02):
, anytime.
Where are you going to go firstand why?
Speaker 2 (31:07):
Let's be romantic, let's not think about money,
because if I would go back intime, I would go back in time,
you know, when Bitcoin firststarted.
You know I would buy like 10Kof Bitcoin.
I would go back in time.
I would go back in time, youknow, when Bitcoin first started
.
You know I would buy like 10Kof Bitcoins a million today.
But you know, to be romantic, Ithink I always get so.
I'm always fascinated.
When I saw those movies, youknow like I remember when I
(31:27):
watched, you know, johnDillinger, the Public Enemy with
Johnny Depp, and have youwatched that movie?
Yeah, when I see those kind ofmovies, when I see all this
style and you know those years,everything was different, even
music.
When you went to the pub or youwent to listen to music, it was
a different, you know, adifferent environment.
(31:50):
Everything was a little bitmore chilled.
You were taking time to enjoyeverything you know, a different
environment.
Everything was a little bitmore chilled.
You were taking time to enjoyeverything you know and there
was not.
This now you have.
I mean, the input of contentand music and imagery is like
pushed into your mouth and yourhead constantly.
(32:11):
At the time it was everythinghad a time.
You went to the pub, youenjoyed your drink and you
listened to the music and youhad this conversation and you
were on the spot every time.
So I wish I could have triedthat kind of living and see
what's the difference, becauseas far as I'm concerned for
(32:31):
myself, I'm never in one placeat the same time.
You know, I'm always like twophones, speaking with someone
reading this, thinking anotherthing, and you know I wish I
could ever try that one.
You know the way they pictureit in the movie even uh, it's,
it's different, it's likeromantic, I don't know it's.
(32:52):
Uh, it gives me.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
You know, I wish I could try that yeah, yeah, you
want to slow down and and enjoythe moment a little bit.
Yeah, I like that.
I like that absolutely, man.
Uh.
Okay, uh, last question here,masha, uh really appreciate uh
your time today, my man.
Uh, this has been awesomerapping with you.
What to you is the meaning oflife?
Speaker 2 (33:16):
I think the meaning of life is to learn to be a
better version of yourself andbe prepared for what's coming
next.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
I think we come here to learn.
You know, even when the shithit the fan, there is always a
reason.
That means we had to be, we hadto learn something and be and
grow within those experience.
And yeah, I think the meaningof life is to learn and to grow
within yourself and to be abetter person or a better
(33:49):
version of yourself.
You know, in Italy we say I'mgoing gonna translate it be good
and forget about it, be bad andthink you know.
In other words, you know, bekind to people and just don't
expect anything from others andbe bad and always remember what
you, what you've done, you know.
(34:11):
So I think that's the missiontry the best version of yourself
awesome man.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
Can you say that in italian?
Speaker 2 (34:19):
let's get some italian on the podcast you want
some italian, but you want theitalian yeah, give me the, give
me the italian I don't know whatthe fuck man.
There is this thing.
My TikTok is full of those shitthat people I don't know there
is this kind of love for ItalianAmerican people.
(34:42):
We don't talk like you think,guys.
We don't speak like we don'thave spaghetti meatball.
It doesn't exist, man, it's not.
We don't have it in Italy.
They, I don't have it in italy.
They, they like, I don't know,like even the, the accent, you
know, they, just you know, Ithink it's something, it's
something different.
You know, it's true, we talkwith our hands.
(35:04):
You know like I'm listen, thisman I'm managing in london used
to.
When I first went to londonmanager I had manager.
So this manager used to do thisto me.
It was coming to me blocking myhands, like that, and it was
like speak now and I couldn't.
I felt so wrong man, because ifI couldn't move my hand I
(35:27):
couldn't talk.
But yeah, they did this thinglike forget about it.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
That's fucking great man.
Awesome, masha.
Well, we appreciate your timehere on the Sailor Jerry podcast
.
Thank you for having meHomeward Bound is out now,
ladies and gentlemen,traditional tattoos, go get the
book, give Masha a follow,support everything he's doing.
Yeah, man, just thank you somuch for your time today, really
(35:53):
appreciate it, brother, thanksfor having me.
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