April 1, 2025 • 35 mins
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Isn't salvation more than just good vibes and prosperity? The true path to salvation might not be what modern spiritual trends suggest. Join us as we critically assess universalism, spiritualism, and gnosticism, affirming the Christian doctrine that centers around belief in Jesus Christ. We recount a gripping forum discussion that revealed the nuanced differences among Christian interpretations, including Mormonism, and we take a critical look at Joel Osteen's prosperity gospel that seems to stray from traditional biblical teachings.
When it comes to hot-button issues like homosexuality, tension is inevitable. We tackle the complex discussion on whether homosexuality is considered a sin within Christian beliefs, featuring Joel Osteen's traditional views and Piers Morgan's challenge for religious evolution to match societal progress. This discussion spotlights the friction between enduring religious interpretations and current societal shifts toward inclusivity. Legal and societal ramifications for preaching traditional beliefs are explored, with insights into how personal experiences influence perspectives on these sensitive matters.
Navigating the stormy waters of faith and modern debates on same-sex marriage can be challenging. As a Christian pastor, I share my inner turmoil between upholding scriptural interpretations and addressing societal expectations. While committed to my faith, I make it clear that love and grace guide my interactions with everyone, even when disagreements on moral issues arise. We end on a reflective note, considering the boundless love, grace, and redemption offered by divine love, leaving listeners with a sense of awe at its transformative power.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Live from the Saints Headquarters in Tolleson,
arizona, spreading the Gospel,equipping the Saints, standing
for the word of truth,proclaiming God's grace.
Now, on a podcast near you,welcome your host, pastor Joshua
, on the Saints Will OvercomeMinistries.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the show.
It is Pastor Joshua on theSaints Will Overcome Ministries
and I just want to have a talkwith everybody today.
I want to have a talk witheverybody today, I want to have
a discussion, I want to leteverybody know that Believes in
universalism, which is the majorpart of this country one way or
(01:14):
another.
It might be packageddifferently, known as
spiritualism, gnosticism.
And when I talk to a lot ofpeople they say Well, pastor, I
just feel good.
It makes me feel good, Ibelieve what I'm going to
believe.
There's not a whole lot ofthought behind what I believe,
(01:39):
but I can tell you right now,pastor Joshua, that it's for me,
it to me, and I just reallyenjoy it in general.
And I want to let people knowthat that's not salvation,
that's not believing in jesuschrist.
There's no substance to that atall.
(02:03):
ladies gentlemen, and it's thebiggest issue in the world
because your salvation dependson it.
And I would like to go back andtalk about something that I
recently had a conversation.
I was in a forum talking tosome people and we were posting
some certain things aboutChristianity, the Trinity, the
Logos, logos who Christ was,what he did, the redemption of
(02:28):
mankind and a couple Mormons gotin there.
And first of all, I want tostart by saying this I have no
problems with people in general.
I don't hate people from adifferent religion, I don't hate
gay people, but you have tounderstand, I'm a Christian and
(02:49):
I follow this doctrine and Iknow this doctrine is true, and
I don't hate adulterers andfornicators, even though I
believe the Bible says, and Iknow the Bible says, and I'll
even show you here from Romans,that everybody that just
indulges in sin does not get toembrace heaven and spend
(03:11):
eternity with God.
And universalism has been acrutch that people have leaned
on and they believe it'sequivalent to salvation and it's
a trick of the devil.
It's a trick of the devil, it'sa scheme by the devil.
It's what he does to destroy,because if he can get the
average person not to believe inthe real, true one and only
(03:34):
Jesus Christ, then it'sautomatic condemnation.
Ladies and gentlemen, andeverybody knows who Joel Osteen
is and I want to go through someclips with Joel and I just want
you to hear the TV evangelisthere and how popular he is in
(03:56):
America, and I want you tounderstand his philosophy,
because he is a universalist atheart, even though he doesn't
say he is, and he says hebelieves in the true gospel.
He doesn't.
And before I play this clip,I've noticed the tactic of
people.
(04:16):
I've noticed the tactic ofSatan's philosophy that he uses
now.
So anytime you want to talkabout objective truth, no matter
what it is, automatically ourculture preaches this tolerance.
So somebody will automaticallysay you're mean.
(04:37):
Who are you to judge?
You can't tell me that.
That's wrong.
I'm gonna do what I'm gonna do.
You're gonna do what I'm gonna.
What do You're going to do?
What I'm going to do, whatyou're going to do?
And truth is just subjective atthat point.
It's just relative Right.
And I always tell people ifthat's the truth, then what's
the point of anything?
There's nothing to guide yourlife by, no principles.
(05:00):
Your definition of love andjustice is not a cemented love
or justice.
And if you think you werewronged and that somebody
violated you in an egregious way.
If there was no God andeverything's ruled off
(05:21):
subjectivism how do you knowthat violation wasn't
appropriate for the time?
That's the kind ofphilosophical conundrum people
get in when they deny the truthof the absolute existence of god
, jesus christ.
So, ladies and gentlemen, we'regoing to listen to joel here
(05:44):
and have one question Are youready?
Speaker 4 (06:03):
Some of the criticism is that you're preaching
prosperity.
I was reading some of thecritics and I was thinking well,
why would you, why wouldanybody criticize you for
preaching prosperity?
Because what kind of God wantsyou to be poor and miserable?
That's the way I feel as well.
Speaker 5 (06:19):
I mean, I don't know who would say you know that
you're not supposed to.
You know, leave your childrenbetter than you were before,
plus prospering.
It's not just you know materialthings, it's peace in your mind
and health in your body andthings like that.
And so there's, you know, abelief that you're supposed to
suffer more and be poor and toshow your humility.
(06:40):
I just, I don't see the Biblethat way.
I see that God came to you knowJesus died that we might live
an abundant life and to be ablessing to others.
I can't be a big blessing topeople if I'm poor and broke and
depressed and I don't feel goodabout myself.
Speaker 4 (06:54):
If you're poor, broke and depressed, is that because
you're not praying enough oryou're not, or something you
said today.
It was really great aboutgetting with God, and it's what
I often say, this same of tryingto be aligned with what God
wants for you.
Do you think that if you'repoor and broke and depressed
it's because you're not prayingenough or not in alignment?
Speaker 5 (07:19):
No, I think it's.
I think it's a mixture ofthings.
I don't think it's just notpraying enough, because there's
some great people that are just,you know, haven't broken
through in that area, and Ithink that you know there are
forces trying to hold us alldown and a lot of people haven't
been trained and they haven'tbeen inspired that, hey, you
know what You're in the projects, but you don't have to stay
(07:39):
there.
God's got a plan for your lifeand you believe and you pray.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
Ladies and gentlemen, I have to stop right there
because I want to talk aboutthis.
Um, do you see?
What joel does is he maneuvershis way and he slithers his way
out of the question and he saysyou know, god really doesn't
want you to be poor, he doesn'twant you to be broke.
And that fascinates me, becausein the 21st century there's
(08:08):
probably people listening rightnow to this podcast and they're
watching it and they're likejoel's right.
Everything joel is saying isabsolutely 100 true, but if you
read about j, if you read aboutthe scriptures, he says the son
of man has no place to rest andlay his head down, but the
(08:31):
sparrows of the sky do?
Jesus was extremely poor, eventhough he was the Theanthropos,
the God, man, god, 100 divine,the one that spoke through the
burning bush and revealed itselfto moses as a tetragrammatron,
(08:53):
that was there in the beginning.
Genesis, one revelations, onejohn, one colossians, one that
spoke in the universe, situateditself and leapt into existence,
was poor, demonstrated humility.
This prosperity, gospel, thisfaith is a force and you command
(09:18):
and demand what you want inyour life and somehow, if you're
stuck in a poor situation,somehow you're a failure, the
poor in spirit, not thinking toomuch of yourself, the humble,
meek strength under control,having that patience and, as you
(09:41):
can see, oprah's trapping himin a spiritual conversation.
This isn't true Christianity.
This is spiritual jargon.
So let's continue on and pleasepay attention to what Joel says
, ladies and gentlemen, and youdo everything you can.
Speaker 5 (10:01):
So I think a lot of it is just we just accept this.
This is the way my family hasalways been.
We're always broke, we'realways defeated, we're always
but you know what?
Speaker 4 (10:10):
Somebody can rise out of it.
Speaker 5 (10:11):
You did, tyler, did I mean you look at that.
Speaker 4 (10:14):
When you, in the beginning, were first being
criticized by people who weremore fundamentalists, who are
more orthodox or strict in theirbeliefs, that there's not
enough doctrine, there's notenough Christ in the message.
Speaker 5 (10:29):
Sure, Well, you know again, Oprah, I try to get up
every morning and just search myown heart and say God am.
I doing what you want me to doand I feel like, if I can be
pure and feel good before God,that I don't have to.
You know, I always want tolisten to people and receive
good criticism, but I just feellike I don't have to answer them
.
I have to answer to God, and soI just try to stay focused on
(10:52):
what God's called me to do.
Speaker 4 (10:54):
You know it's interesting after mother Teresa
died and mother Teresa is theiconic figure for giving and
love and peace and faith in theworld and after she died we
found out that even she hadmoments where she doubted her
faith.
Have you ever doubted orquestioned your?
Speaker 5 (11:11):
faith.
You know I don't want to soundsuper spiritual, but I don't
really believe I have.
I just I grew up in this and Iyou know, even in the difficult
times.
So you have never doubted.
Speaker 4 (11:24):
I really haven't, and I don't, even in the difficult
times.
So you have never doubted, Ireally haven't.
Speaker 5 (11:31):
And I don't know.
So you walk the walk, you justdon't talk it.
Well, I believe I do and Idon't want to.
I just I never have and I don't, I just I wouldn't go that
route.
If something happens, it's moreand more of turning to my faith
and God.
We need your help in thesetimes, and so it hadn't been
like that.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
Okay, ladies and gentlemen, what we're going to
do is we're going to make atransition, because this is
going to be about Joel, andwe're going to jump around and
we're going to move to somedifferent things here, and I
want to share another clip, andbefore I do, I'm going to
preface this.
A lot of people get really upsetonce you mention homosexuality,
and I want you to pay attentionto this clip and how joel is
(12:06):
pressed on this and I want youto see how he responds.
And then I'm going to give somecommentary on that, ladies and
gentlemen, and I'm going to showyou biblically what scripture
says, and I'm going to respondand I'm going to take the
narrative of hate that societylikes to propagate to make
Christians seem non-tolerant,and I'm going to make sense out
(12:31):
of it all, ladies and gentlemen.
So let me load this up and Ireally need you to pay attention
to this.
I really need you to payattention because this is super,
super important.
I really need you to payattention because it's super,
super important.
So, ladies and gentlemen, Ihave one question, are you?
Speaker 6 (12:52):
ready.
Is homosexuality a sin?
Speaker 5 (13:07):
in your eyes.
Yes, I've always believedpierce.
The scripture shows that it's asin.
But you know, I'm not one ofthose that are out there to bash
homosexuals and tell them thatthey're terrible people and all
that so I suppose the obviousquestion is we did that back in
january.
Speaker 6 (13:25):
Has your position changed at all after that?
Because it raised a lot ofheadlines, a lot of controversy.
Since then, more states haveendorsed same-sex marriage.
It's becoming much less of aprohibitive kind of issue than
it used to be.
What's your view now?
Speaker 5 (13:41):
You know, piers, it really never changes because
mine was mine's based out of thescripture.
That's what I believe that thescripture says that
homosexuality is a sin.
So you know, I believed itbefore and I still believe it
now.
Again, I would just reiteratewhat I said.
I'm not after, I'm not mad atanybody, I don't dislike anybody
, but you know, you know,respecting my faith and
believing, you know in what theScripture says, that's the best
(14:05):
way I can interpret it.
Speaker 6 (14:06):
But shouldn't the Scripture be dragged kicking and
screaming into the modern age?
We were talking before thebreak about the issue about eye
for an eye, tooth for a tooth.
Not everything in theScriptures really is, in my view
, conducive to modern life.
Like everything else, doesn'tit have to move with the times?
No-transcript.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
Stop right there, ladies and gentlemen.
Piers Morgan is trying tocorner him.
Did you see what he just did toJoel, don't?
We have to evolve with the timeand bend Christianity and mold
(14:51):
it within the framework ofprogressive politics, of
progressivism, and isn't it allinclusive?
It's pretty shameful, pierce,that you're trying to propagate
that to Joel, even though thisis to expose Joel's teaching.
(15:12):
But can you imagine living yourlife that way?
Let me give you an example.
I'm married and I love my wife,but I walk in one day and say,
hey, baby, remember four yearsago when we got married?
Well, I have another girlfriendand she's coming over for
dinner.
How do you think that would go,ladies and gentlemen?
(15:32):
She'd probably sock me in theface and start getting my
luggage ready and changing locksOkay, even though I'm the man
of the house.
But then I would say well, wait, it's progressive.
The meaning of marriage hasevolved in my eyes, so I cannot
(15:54):
be wrong.
Aren't we supposed to get withthe times?
That's antiquated, that'sarchaic way of looking at it.
It's a form of expression andwe're all just animals.
Right, we're acting on ourpassions and our urges, so isn't
it the right thing to do?
And the funny thing is pierce'sphilosophy, this nihilistic
(16:18):
philosophy.
He wouldn't dare live his lifelike that.
But when it comes to the holyscriptures and the gospel, he's
doing violence and great harm toit.
And this is the mosthypocritical thing he can do,
because he would never live hisown life like that.
But that's what he's trying todefine as tolerance.
(16:43):
And then what good is the biblein general if it can twist and
bend like clay, if you can moldit how you want to mold it.
And one thing about joel is hegets way too apologetic and he
wants to just please everyone.
And I don't care what anybodythinks.
I'm going to stand by it, standfirm.
(17:05):
I'm reformed in my theology.
You're going to know exactlywhat I think and I'm not perfect
and I'm not changing it fornothing.
So let's continue on, ladiesand gentlemen, because I really,
really want you to hear this,and then we'll cut back in.
Go to some commentary.
Are you ready?
Speaker 6 (17:26):
It's a very progressive preacher.
Speaker 5 (17:28):
Sure, Well, we want to be progressive, but sometimes
I just when I read it, I can'tsee how you would change that,
just like you wouldn't changesome other main things you know
in the scripture.
I just I don't see how that,you know, if you don't have a
basis of truth and that's what Ibase mine off of the scripture.
Everybody else does it and Idon't fault them if they don't,
but this is just the way Ichoose to live my life and what
(17:49):
I teach, based out of thescripture.
Speaker 6 (17:58):
So I don't think you know.
I think you know personally.
200 years from now, thescripture is still going to say
that, yes, but the law of theland may not, and it may not in
your state.
And the law of the land ischanging fast and you know.
Your argument about executionswas what it's stop right there.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
Ladies and gentlemen, like I said, I'm going to cut
in, I'm going to cut out.
Pastor josh was in the cuttingcut out.
He said well, what if it's thelaw of the land?
And what he's saying is this,in a roundabout way what about
when it becomes illegal topreach?
What about when it's considereda hate crime, like in canada?
If you want to preach thatmarriage is between one man and
(18:25):
one woman, and he's very hostile?
And then he's going to try totrap joel and he's going to
basically equivalent it to adictator authoritarianism, when
he's the very aggressive one andhe's the one attacking.
And honestly, pierce Morgan isfull of hate.
(18:46):
Watch his demeanor, look at him, just full of hate and
judgmentalism and can't acceptthat marriage is between a man
and a woman.
It's the design that god createdus.
It's how he wanted usprocreation, the expression of
love and pierce is just full ofanger about this and he's trying
(19:09):
to turn christianity around andsaying that it's militant and
it's evil and it's wrong.
And when people that I talk to,when I counsel and I preach,
and they talk to me about this,usually it comes from a deficit
in their childhood um a parent,a husband, a wife.
(19:31):
And it can go far beyond thatbecause, remember, I'm reformed,
I believe in circumstantialfreedom.
We'll get into that some othertime the acronym tulip.
But besides that, um, peoplethrough their experience, just
there's a lot of people outthere that just hate god.
(19:52):
They don't want nothing to dowith him, they can't stand him,
they just dislike him, theydespise him, they curse his name
every single day.
And society accepts it becauseecclesiastes says that eternity
is locked in all of us, in ourhearts, that god designed us
with a specific and certainamount of knowledge, so no one
(20:15):
has excuse.
So this man literally righthere, just hates God.
And let's continue and you'llsee for yourself exactly what
I'm talking about, ladies andgentlemen, it's the law of the
land in somewhere like Texas.
Speaker 6 (20:30):
What if Texas eventually in a moment it's an
unlikely place, I'd imagine, tobring this in, but it may change
with enough pressure Texasbrings in a law that same-sex
marriage is permissible?
How would you feel then, ifit's the law of the land?
Speaker 5 (20:46):
Well, you know what?
I'm going to respect the lawand I'm going to respect gay
people like I do now.
You know I have plenty ofpeople that come to our church
and friends I would call thatare gay, so I'm going to respect
that.
I think where it puts adifficult situation is me, being
a Christian pastor, believe inthe scripture.
You know it'd be against myfaith to marry two gay people.
Could never do that.
No, it would be against what Ibelieve the scripture teaches.
(21:08):
And so that's where I think therub comes in of people like
myself.
It's not that I'm againstanybody, or, you know, if people
want to live together, that'sup to them, but my faith, when
we say marriage, I mean I thinkabout peers.
All through the Bible there'shundreds of marriages, but none
of them are shown as, betweenyou know, the same sex.
And again, I'm not againstanything, but I just believe
(21:28):
that's what the Bible teachesand that's how we've chosen to
live.
Speaker 6 (21:30):
Don't you feel a bit uneasy?
The last person I heardspeaking like this was Mahmoud
Ahmadinejad, who's the presidentof Iran, who says there are no
gay people in Iran and it's aterrible sin and curse.
I mean, what do you think ofall this, the gay marriage
debate?
I mean, could you ever imagineattending a gay marriage between
two people who come to yourchurch, for example, if they
invited you?
Speaker 4 (21:56):
Well, I think if it was that easy, then we would
have figured it out by now.
Speaker 5 (21:58):
But it's been overthrown.
States go for it, then theyoverthrow it, so it's very
difficult.
Speaker 6 (22:00):
Accepting an invitation is easy, so would you
accept one or not?
Would I accept one?
Two gay people who attend yourchurch invite you to their
wedding um sure I would go, youwould stop right there, ladies
and gentlemen, because my head's
Speaker 3 (22:13):
going to explode.
I'm about to lose my mind, solet me just gather my thoughts.
Give me about three seconds.
Okay, I'm there, um.
So if you said pastor joshua,would you go?
No, I wouldn't.
Me personally, I wouldn't.
Um Me personally, I wouldn't.
I'm not a bigot, I'm notanti-gay, believe it or not.
(22:39):
I've had a couple gay friendsin the past and we just talked.
They asked me questions.
I explained the gospel and they100% disagreed with me and I
100% disagreed with them.
But I did show them love everysingle day and they never, they
never sensed a bone in my bodythat I had bigotry, but they
(23:01):
knew that I stood firm on thegospel and I would not budge.
So, as a pastor, me personallyI would not go.
And she dances around it alittle bit and says, well, no,
yes, I would.
And I wouldn't, because I haveto make sure that I maintain a
(23:21):
certain reputation and notapprove of it.
And somebody might say well,what if it's a chance to
minister?
Well, you got to remember, ifI'm there as a public figure and
a pastor, people areautomatically going to sense it
as an approval.
So I wouldn't.
(23:41):
And let me give you an example,because some people are going
to probably say well, pastorJoshua, what if your kids did?
What if one of your childrencame out gay?
You're really going to be thathardcore Now, believe it or not?
I've had a discussion with themabout this and they know where
I'm at with this.
I would love them, I wouldaccept their decision, but I
(24:03):
would fear that they wouldperish and fear for their
eternal life Because I know theywould not be going to heaven.
And I've even told them I won'tattend a wedding if you were.
Now my kids aren't.
They've made that decision todo that.
But I told them that I wouldn't.
But I told them that I wouldlove them, I wouldn't shun them,
(24:27):
I wouldn't punish them.
But there's just no way I cango that far and I cannot accept
it as a minister of Christ,because I truly believe what the
word of God says.
Just like if my kids wereliving with somebody and refused
to get married and werefornicating or committing
(24:49):
adultery on their partner, Iwouldn't feel any different way.
And that might shock some people.
They say, like what I've endedfriendships, dear friendships
that I've loved, because I'vehad friends that looked at women
as sexual objects in the pastand I've tried talking to them
(25:16):
about the demeaning nature ofthat and what God thinks about
that, and showed them scripture.
And I even warned I'm not goingto be friends with you anymore
if you continue that behavior.
And they continued it and Iended friendships several of
them and I'm not going to beapologetic about it because when
it comes to homosexuality,fornication, adultery, sleeping
(25:38):
around, getting drunk all day,doing drugs, negativism,
extortion, slanders, gossipers,that's all in the same category.
So you can't pit me in a cornerabout a homosexual debate.
So you can't pit me in a cornerabout a homosexual debate,
(26:03):
because all of these sins, thiscontinuous behavior, is really,
really bad.
You know, 21st century Guys arerolling around, think it's cool
to have three or four girls atthe same time be having sex and
society's not going to judgethem.
Judge him why?
Cuz he's a stud.
That man's going to hell if hecontinues that behavior, refuses
(26:23):
to repent and stays there.
People that refuse to getmarried and honor their spouse,
even though we can biblicallydebate on what at what time are
you married?
There's a potential dangerthere.
Somebody that commits adulteryon their spouse, that makes vows
(26:50):
to them, is in danger ofhellfire.
But everybody likes to twistthe truth in this culture
no-transcript.
Speaker 4 (26:58):
Well, I don't you know if I had time.
Speaker 5 (26:59):
I would If they were friends of mine and I respect
them I would certainly go.
Speaker 6 (27:04):
You would watch two people you think are sinners
committing the ultimate sin.
Speaker 5 (27:09):
Well, I'm looking at it.
I don't think it's the ultimatesin, but I'm looking at it from
another point of view ofrespect to that person.
And you know it's, you know itgets convoluted but I'm looking
at it as respect to that person.
Speaker 6 (27:20):
Could you, in your position, actually actively
encourage people to go through asame-sex marriage?
Could you be seen to do it?
Could you be photographed atsuch an event?
Well, I would not.
Would that not cause youproblems?
Speaker 5 (27:32):
Well, you know, it's such a hypothetical and I'm
talking about?
Speaker 6 (27:36):
Well, not really, because you said lots of gay
people go to your church, so itmight happen.
Speaker 5 (27:40):
Well, I haven't been to many weddings lately, to
begin with, but I'm talkingabout somebody that was, you
know, dear to us.
I'm not going to disrespectsomebody that's dear to us and
say you know what, you're notgood enough for us or something
like that.
That's the way I would see itnow.
I'm not going to just run offand go to attend, you know,
certain marriages just to make astatement, because that's not
(28:01):
who I am and that's not what Istand for.
And again, I don't look down onthose people.
Speaker 3 (28:06):
Ladies and gentlemen, that is the most wishy-washy
statement I've ever heard.
Joel wants to please people, sobad that he will simply deny
the truth all the way Because hedoesn't want to be called out
or he doesn't want to be calledmean.
(28:27):
Let's read some scripture.
Are you ready?
Ladies and gentlemen?
This is the NIV translation andthis is chapter one, and we're
going to close out.
We probably got about fiveminutes for the show and we're
out of here.
Are you ready, paul, a servantof Jesus Christ, called to be an
apostle and set apart for theout of here.
Are you ready, paul, a servantof Jesus Christ, called to be an
apostle and set apart for thegospel of God, the gospel he
(28:48):
promised beforehand through theprophets and the holy scriptures
regarding his son who, as tohis earthly life, was a
descendant of David and who,through the spirit of holiness,
was appointed the son of God inpower by his resurrection from
the dead, jesus Christ, our Lord.
Through him, we received graceand apostleship to call the
(29:11):
Gentiles to the obedience thatcomes from faith for his name's
sake, and you also are amongthose Gentiles who are called to
belong, in Jesus Christ, to allRome, who are loved by God and
called to be his holy people.
Grace and peace to you from God, our Father, and from the Lord
Jesus Christ.
(29:32):
Now I'm going to jump down herebecause I don't want to go
through this whole thing, but Iwant to show you what Paul talks
about In verse 18.
The wrath of God is beingrevealed from heaven against all
the godlessness and wickednessof people who suppress the truth
by their wickedness, since whatmay be known about God is plain
(29:55):
to them because God has made itplain.
No-transcript specialrevelation is the scriptures
(30:38):
that god gave us.
The inspired finished productis actually the inspired text
the autographs, which we don'thave.
The originals we have.
The translation, which we don'thave.
The originals we have.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
the translation God has not chosen to give us the
autographs.
Speaker 3 (30:48):
So no man is without excuse, because God is a witness
, the creation is a witness.
The man still chooses to actwicked, for although they knew
God, they neither glorified himas God nor gave thanks to him.
But their thinking becamefutile and their foolish hearts
were darkened.
(31:08):
And they can't claim to be wise.
They became fools and exchangedthe glory of the immortal God
for images made to look likemortal human beings and birds
and animals and reptiles humanbeings and birds and animals and
reptiles.
So we're looking at aprogression of wickedness and
(31:30):
immorality.
And these people, they'reworshiping other gods and
they're moving away from the onetrue God and the witness is
creation and they're acting ontheir impulses.
And when people do that throughsin, god gives them completely
(31:52):
over and darkens their mind.
You ever wonder why the world iswhat it is.
I had a two-hour conversationwith a person today on the
customer service call from SRPand we just got into philosophy
and everything else and hewasn't a Christian.
But we got in such a deepconversation and he was so upset
(32:12):
and I understood why.
That people don't criticallythink anymore.
Over 50% of the country doesn'teven read anymore.
They pretty much get everythingfrom media.
There's no interest in deepthought why we're here, who God
is.
Intelligent design.
People simply just live theirlife as a zombie, the walking
(32:34):
dead, and they will poureverything else.
They will pour every ounce ofenergy of who they are into
everything but God and evenfinding out who he is, spending
thirteen to sixteen hundredhours a year watching Netflix
and zero time even asking thequestions why am I even here?
(32:59):
What is the meaning ofeverything?
Verse 24, ladies and gentlemen,therefore, god gave them over,
in the sinful desires of theirhearts, to sexual impurity for
the degrading of their bodieswith one another.
They exchanged the truth aboutGod for a lie and worshipped and
(33:19):
served, created things ratherthan the creator who is praised
for ever, and I want you toreally pay attention on this
next verse before I let you guysgo because of this.
God gave them over to shamefullust.
Even their women exchangednatural sexual relations for
unnatural, unnatural ones.
In the same way, the men alsoabandoned natural relations with
(33:42):
women and were inflamed withlust for one another, men
committed shameful acts withother men and received in
themselves the due penalty fortheir error.
Furthermore, just as they didnot think it worthwhile to
retain the knowledge of God, soGod gave them over to a depraved
(34:04):
mind.
So what was the penalty ofgoing too far in sin in general?
It is God's judgment in givingone over to a depraved mind and
a darkened mind and embracingthat and falling further and
(34:25):
further away.
We'll continue this next time,ladies and gentlemen, because
this is a 30-minute show.
We can go on and on and on, butI want you to understand
something that if you're sinning, repent.
Ask Christ to come into yourlife, bow to him as the king,
(34:47):
ask to be redeemed by jesus'sblood, experience salvation.
Answer quick answer questions.
Ask questions.
Research the scriptures.
God faithful.
Ladies and gentlemen, untilnext time.
God bless you all.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
Until we meet again.
This is the Saints WillOvercome with Pastor Joshua.
He is jealous for me, loveslike a hurricane.
I am a tree Bending beneath theweight of his wind and mercy
when, all of a sudden, I amunaware of these afflictions,
(35:48):
eclipsed by glory, and I realizejust how beautiful you are and
how great your affections arefor me.
And oh, how he loves us.
Oh, oh, how he loves us, how heloves us all.
(36:17):
And he is jealous for me.
Loves like a hurricane.
(36:37):
I am a tree, bending the knee,the weight of His wind and mercy
.
When, all of a sudden, I amunaware of these afflictions,
eclipsed by glory, and I realizejust how beautiful you are and
(37:04):
how great your affections arefor me.
Oh, how he loves.
Yeah, he loves us.
Oh, how he loves us.
Oh, how he loves us.
Oh, how he loves.
(37:26):
And we are His portion and heis our prize, drawn to
redemption by the grace in Hiseyes.
If His grace Is an ocean, we'reall sinking and heaven meets
(37:51):
earth Like an unforeseen kissand my heart turns violently
Inside of my chest.
I don't have time To maintainthese regrets when I think about
the way, oh, how he loves usall, oh, how he loves us, how he
(38:22):
loves us, how he loves us all,how he loves.
Yeah, he loves us.
Oh, how he loves us.
Oh, how he loves us.
Oh, how he loves.
Oh, what love.
(38:43):
Yeah, he loves us.
Yeah, he loves us how he lovesus.
Oh, how he loves us.
Oh, how he loves us all.
Live from the Saints Headquarters in Tolleson,
arizona, spreading the Gospel,equipping the Saints, standing
for the word of truth,proclaiming God's grace.
Now, on a podcast near you,welcome your host, pastor Joshua
, on the Saints Will OvercomeMinistries.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the show.
It is Pastor Joshua on theSaints Will Overcome Ministries
and I just want to have a talkwith everybody today.
I want to have a talk witheverybody today, I want to have
a discussion, I want to leteverybody know that Believes in
universalism, which is the majorpart of this country one way or
(01:14):
another.
It might be packageddifferently, known as
spiritualism, gnosticism.
And when I talk to a lot ofpeople they say Well, pastor, I
just feel good.
It makes me feel good, Ibelieve what I'm going to
believe.
There's not a whole lot ofthought behind what I believe,
(01:39):
but I can tell you right now,pastor Joshua, that it's for me,
it to me, and I just reallyenjoy it in general.
And I want to let people knowthat that's not salvation,
that's not believing in jesuschrist.
There's no substance to that atall.
(02:03):
ladies gentlemen, and it's thebiggest issue in the world
because your salvation dependson it.
And I would like to go back andtalk about something that I
recently had a conversation.
I was in a forum talking tosome people and we were posting
some certain things aboutChristianity, the Trinity, the
Logos, logos who Christ was,what he did, the redemption of
(02:28):
mankind and a couple Mormons gotin there.
And first of all, I want tostart by saying this I have no
problems with people in general.
I don't hate people from adifferent religion, I don't hate
gay people, but you have tounderstand, I'm a Christian and
(02:49):
I follow this doctrine and Iknow this doctrine is true, and
I don't hate adulterers andfornicators, even though I
believe the Bible says, and Iknow the Bible says, and I'll
even show you here from Romans,that everybody that just
indulges in sin does not get toembrace heaven and spend
(03:11):
eternity with God.
And universalism has been acrutch that people have leaned
on and they believe it'sequivalent to salvation and it's
a trick of the devil.
It's a trick of the devil, it'sa scheme by the devil.
It's what he does to destroy,because if he can get the
average person not to believe inthe real, true one and only
(03:34):
Jesus Christ, then it'sautomatic condemnation.
Ladies and gentlemen, andeverybody knows who Joel Osteen
is and I want to go through someclips with Joel and I just want
you to hear the TV evangelisthere and how popular he is in
(03:56):
America, and I want you tounderstand his philosophy,
because he is a universalist atheart, even though he doesn't
say he is, and he says hebelieves in the true gospel.
He doesn't.
And before I play this clip,I've noticed the tactic of
people.
(04:16):
I've noticed the tactic ofSatan's philosophy that he uses
now.
So anytime you want to talkabout objective truth, no matter
what it is, automatically ourculture preaches this tolerance.
So somebody will automaticallysay you're mean.
(04:37):
Who are you to judge?
You can't tell me that.
That's wrong.
I'm gonna do what I'm gonna do.
You're gonna do what I'm gonna.
What do You're going to do?
What I'm going to do, whatyou're going to do?
And truth is just subjective atthat point.
It's just relative Right.
And I always tell people ifthat's the truth, then what's
the point of anything?
There's nothing to guide yourlife by, no principles.
(05:00):
Your definition of love andjustice is not a cemented love
or justice.
And if you think you werewronged and that somebody
violated you in an egregious way.
If there was no God andeverything's ruled off
(05:21):
subjectivism how do you knowthat violation wasn't
appropriate for the time?
That's the kind ofphilosophical conundrum people
get in when they deny the truthof the absolute existence of god
, jesus christ.
So, ladies and gentlemen, we'regoing to listen to joel here
(05:44):
and have one question Are youready?
Speaker 4 (06:03):
Some of the criticism is that you're preaching
prosperity.
I was reading some of thecritics and I was thinking well,
why would you, why wouldanybody criticize you for
preaching prosperity?
Because what kind of God wantsyou to be poor and miserable?
That's the way I feel as well.
Speaker 5 (06:19):
I mean, I don't know who would say you know that
you're not supposed to.
You know, leave your childrenbetter than you were before,
plus prospering.
It's not just you know materialthings, it's peace in your mind
and health in your body andthings like that.
And so there's, you know, abelief that you're supposed to
suffer more and be poor and toshow your humility.
(06:40):
I just, I don't see the Biblethat way.
I see that God came to you knowJesus died that we might live
an abundant life and to be ablessing to others.
I can't be a big blessing topeople if I'm poor and broke and
depressed and I don't feel goodabout myself.
Speaker 4 (06:54):
If you're poor, broke and depressed, is that because
you're not praying enough oryou're not, or something you
said today.
It was really great aboutgetting with God, and it's what
I often say, this same of tryingto be aligned with what God
wants for you.
Do you think that if you'repoor and broke and depressed
it's because you're not prayingenough or not in alignment?
Speaker 5 (07:19):
No, I think it's.
I think it's a mixture ofthings.
I don't think it's just notpraying enough, because there's
some great people that are just,you know, haven't broken
through in that area, and Ithink that you know there are
forces trying to hold us alldown and a lot of people haven't
been trained and they haven'tbeen inspired that, hey, you
know what You're in the projects, but you don't have to stay
(07:39):
there.
God's got a plan for your lifeand you believe and you pray.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
Ladies and gentlemen, I have to stop right there
because I want to talk aboutthis.
Um, do you see?
What joel does is he maneuvershis way and he slithers his way
out of the question and he saysyou know, god really doesn't
want you to be poor, he doesn'twant you to be broke.
And that fascinates me, becausein the 21st century there's
(08:08):
probably people listening rightnow to this podcast and they're
watching it and they're likejoel's right.
Everything joel is saying isabsolutely 100 true, but if you
read about j, if you read aboutthe scriptures, he says the son
of man has no place to rest andlay his head down, but the
(08:31):
sparrows of the sky do?
Jesus was extremely poor, eventhough he was the Theanthropos,
the God, man, god, 100 divine,the one that spoke through the
burning bush and revealed itselfto moses as a tetragrammatron,
(08:53):
that was there in the beginning.
Genesis, one revelations, onejohn, one colossians, one that
spoke in the universe, situateditself and leapt into existence,
was poor, demonstrated humility.
This prosperity, gospel, thisfaith is a force and you command
(09:18):
and demand what you want inyour life and somehow, if you're
stuck in a poor situation,somehow you're a failure, the
poor in spirit, not thinking toomuch of yourself, the humble,
meek strength under control,having that patience and, as you
(09:41):
can see, oprah's trapping himin a spiritual conversation.
This isn't true Christianity.
This is spiritual jargon.
So let's continue on and pleasepay attention to what Joel says
, ladies and gentlemen, and youdo everything you can.
Speaker 5 (10:01):
So I think a lot of it is just we just accept this.
This is the way my family hasalways been.
We're always broke, we'realways defeated, we're always
but you know what?
Speaker 4 (10:10):
Somebody can rise out of it.
Speaker 5 (10:11):
You did, tyler, did I mean you look at that.
Speaker 4 (10:14):
When you, in the beginning, were first being
criticized by people who weremore fundamentalists, who are
more orthodox or strict in theirbeliefs, that there's not
enough doctrine, there's notenough Christ in the message.
Speaker 5 (10:29):
Sure, Well, you know again, Oprah, I try to get up
every morning and just search myown heart and say God am.
I doing what you want me to doand I feel like, if I can be
pure and feel good before God,that I don't have to.
You know, I always want tolisten to people and receive
good criticism, but I just feellike I don't have to answer them
.
I have to answer to God, and soI just try to stay focused on
(10:52):
what God's called me to do.
Speaker 4 (10:54):
You know it's interesting after mother Teresa
died and mother Teresa is theiconic figure for giving and
love and peace and faith in theworld and after she died we
found out that even she hadmoments where she doubted her
faith.
Have you ever doubted orquestioned your?
Speaker 5 (11:11):
faith.
You know I don't want to soundsuper spiritual, but I don't
really believe I have.
I just I grew up in this and Iyou know, even in the difficult
times.
So you have never doubted.
Speaker 4 (11:24):
I really haven't, and I don't, even in the difficult
times.
So you have never doubted, Ireally haven't.
Speaker 5 (11:31):
And I don't know.
So you walk the walk, you justdon't talk it.
Well, I believe I do and Idon't want to.
I just I never have and I don't, I just I wouldn't go that
route.
If something happens, it's moreand more of turning to my faith
and God.
We need your help in thesetimes, and so it hadn't been
like that.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
Okay, ladies and gentlemen, what we're going to
do is we're going to make atransition, because this is
going to be about Joel, andwe're going to jump around and
we're going to move to somedifferent things here, and I
want to share another clip, andbefore I do, I'm going to
preface this.
A lot of people get really upsetonce you mention homosexuality,
and I want you to pay attentionto this clip and how joel is
(12:06):
pressed on this and I want youto see how he responds.
And then I'm going to give somecommentary on that, ladies and
gentlemen, and I'm going to showyou biblically what scripture
says, and I'm going to respondand I'm going to take the
narrative of hate that societylikes to propagate to make
Christians seem non-tolerant,and I'm going to make sense out
(12:31):
of it all, ladies and gentlemen.
So let me load this up and Ireally need you to pay attention
to this.
I really need you to payattention because this is super,
super important.
I really need you to payattention because it's super,
super important.
So, ladies and gentlemen, Ihave one question, are you?
Speaker 6 (12:52):
ready.
Is homosexuality a sin?
Speaker 5 (13:07):
in your eyes.
Yes, I've always believedpierce.
The scripture shows that it's asin.
But you know, I'm not one ofthose that are out there to bash
homosexuals and tell them thatthey're terrible people and all
that so I suppose the obviousquestion is we did that back in
january.
Speaker 6 (13:25):
Has your position changed at all after that?
Because it raised a lot ofheadlines, a lot of controversy.
Since then, more states haveendorsed same-sex marriage.
It's becoming much less of aprohibitive kind of issue than
it used to be.
What's your view now?
Speaker 5 (13:41):
You know, piers, it really never changes because
mine was mine's based out of thescripture.
That's what I believe that thescripture says that
homosexuality is a sin.
So you know, I believed itbefore and I still believe it
now.
Again, I would just reiteratewhat I said.
I'm not after, I'm not mad atanybody, I don't dislike anybody
, but you know, you know,respecting my faith and
believing, you know in what theScripture says, that's the best
(14:05):
way I can interpret it.
Speaker 6 (14:06):
But shouldn't the Scripture be dragged kicking and
screaming into the modern age?
We were talking before thebreak about the issue about eye
for an eye, tooth for a tooth.
Not everything in theScriptures really is, in my view
, conducive to modern life.
Like everything else, doesn'tit have to move with the times?
No-transcript.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
Stop right there, ladies and gentlemen.
Piers Morgan is trying tocorner him.
Did you see what he just did toJoel, don't?
We have to evolve with the timeand bend Christianity and mold
(14:51):
it within the framework ofprogressive politics, of
progressivism, and isn't it allinclusive?
It's pretty shameful, pierce,that you're trying to propagate
that to Joel, even though thisis to expose Joel's teaching.
(15:12):
But can you imagine living yourlife that way?
Let me give you an example.
I'm married and I love my wife,but I walk in one day and say,
hey, baby, remember four yearsago when we got married?
Well, I have another girlfriendand she's coming over for
dinner.
How do you think that would go,ladies and gentlemen?
(15:32):
She'd probably sock me in theface and start getting my
luggage ready and changing locksOkay, even though I'm the man
of the house.
But then I would say well, wait, it's progressive.
The meaning of marriage hasevolved in my eyes, so I cannot
(15:54):
be wrong.
Aren't we supposed to get withthe times?
That's antiquated, that'sarchaic way of looking at it.
It's a form of expression andwe're all just animals.
Right, we're acting on ourpassions and our urges, so isn't
it the right thing to do?
And the funny thing is pierce'sphilosophy, this nihilistic
(16:18):
philosophy.
He wouldn't dare live his lifelike that.
But when it comes to the holyscriptures and the gospel, he's
doing violence and great harm toit.
And this is the mosthypocritical thing he can do,
because he would never live hisown life like that.
But that's what he's trying todefine as tolerance.
(16:43):
And then what good is the biblein general if it can twist and
bend like clay, if you can moldit how you want to mold it.
And one thing about joel is hegets way too apologetic and he
wants to just please everyone.
And I don't care what anybodythinks.
I'm going to stand by it, standfirm.
(17:05):
I'm reformed in my theology.
You're going to know exactlywhat I think and I'm not perfect
and I'm not changing it fornothing.
So let's continue on, ladiesand gentlemen, because I really,
really want you to hear this,and then we'll cut back in.
Go to some commentary.
Are you ready?
Speaker 6 (17:26):
It's a very progressive preacher.
Speaker 5 (17:28):
Sure, Well, we want to be progressive, but sometimes
I just when I read it, I can'tsee how you would change that,
just like you wouldn't changesome other main things you know
in the scripture.
I just I don't see how that,you know, if you don't have a
basis of truth and that's what Ibase mine off of the scripture.
Everybody else does it and Idon't fault them if they don't,
but this is just the way Ichoose to live my life and what
(17:49):
I teach, based out of thescripture.
Speaker 6 (17:58):
So I don't think you know.
I think you know personally.
200 years from now, thescripture is still going to say
that, yes, but the law of theland may not, and it may not in
your state.
And the law of the land ischanging fast and you know.
Your argument about executionswas what it's stop right there.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
Ladies and gentlemen, like I said, I'm going to cut
in, I'm going to cut out.
Pastor josh was in the cuttingcut out.
He said well, what if it's thelaw of the land?
And what he's saying is this,in a roundabout way what about
when it becomes illegal topreach?
What about when it's considereda hate crime, like in canada?
If you want to preach thatmarriage is between one man and
(18:25):
one woman, and he's very hostile?
And then he's going to try totrap joel and he's going to
basically equivalent it to adictator authoritarianism, when
he's the very aggressive one andhe's the one attacking.
And honestly, pierce Morgan isfull of hate.
(18:46):
Watch his demeanor, look at him, just full of hate and
judgmentalism and can't acceptthat marriage is between a man
and a woman.
It's the design that god createdus.
It's how he wanted usprocreation, the expression of
love and pierce is just full ofanger about this and he's trying
(19:09):
to turn christianity around andsaying that it's militant and
it's evil and it's wrong.
And when people that I talk to,when I counsel and I preach,
and they talk to me about this,usually it comes from a deficit
in their childhood um a parent,a husband, a wife.
(19:31):
And it can go far beyond thatbecause, remember, I'm reformed,
I believe in circumstantialfreedom.
We'll get into that some othertime the acronym tulip.
But besides that, um, peoplethrough their experience, just
there's a lot of people outthere that just hate god.
(19:52):
They don't want nothing to dowith him, they can't stand him,
they just dislike him, theydespise him, they curse his name
every single day.
And society accepts it becauseecclesiastes says that eternity
is locked in all of us, in ourhearts, that god designed us
with a specific and certainamount of knowledge, so no one
(20:15):
has excuse.
So this man literally righthere, just hates God.
And let's continue and you'llsee for yourself exactly what
I'm talking about, ladies andgentlemen, it's the law of the
land in somewhere like Texas.
Speaker 6 (20:30):
What if Texas eventually in a moment it's an
unlikely place, I'd imagine, tobring this in, but it may change
with enough pressure Texasbrings in a law that same-sex
marriage is permissible?
How would you feel then, ifit's the law of the land?
Speaker 5 (20:46):
Well, you know what?
I'm going to respect the lawand I'm going to respect gay
people like I do now.
You know I have plenty ofpeople that come to our church
and friends I would call thatare gay, so I'm going to respect
that.
I think where it puts adifficult situation is me, being
a Christian pastor, believe inthe scripture.
You know it'd be against myfaith to marry two gay people.
Could never do that.
No, it would be against what Ibelieve the scripture teaches.
(21:08):
And so that's where I think therub comes in of people like
myself.
It's not that I'm againstanybody, or, you know, if people
want to live together, that'sup to them, but my faith, when
we say marriage, I mean I thinkabout peers.
All through the Bible there'shundreds of marriages, but none
of them are shown as, betweenyou know, the same sex.
And again, I'm not againstanything, but I just believe
(21:28):
that's what the Bible teachesand that's how we've chosen to
live.
Speaker 6 (21:30):
Don't you feel a bit uneasy?
The last person I heardspeaking like this was Mahmoud
Ahmadinejad, who's the presidentof Iran, who says there are no
gay people in Iran and it's aterrible sin and curse.
I mean, what do you think ofall this, the gay marriage
debate?
I mean, could you ever imagineattending a gay marriage between
two people who come to yourchurch, for example, if they
invited you?
Speaker 4 (21:56):
Well, I think if it was that easy, then we would
have figured it out by now.
Speaker 5 (21:58):
But it's been overthrown.
States go for it, then theyoverthrow it, so it's very
difficult.
Speaker 6 (22:00):
Accepting an invitation is easy, so would you
accept one or not?
Would I accept one?
Two gay people who attend yourchurch invite you to their
wedding um sure I would go, youwould stop right there, ladies
and gentlemen, because my head's
Speaker 3 (22:13):
going to explode.
I'm about to lose my mind, solet me just gather my thoughts.
Give me about three seconds.
Okay, I'm there, um.
So if you said pastor joshua,would you go?
No, I wouldn't.
Me personally, I wouldn't.
Um Me personally, I wouldn't.
I'm not a bigot, I'm notanti-gay, believe it or not.
(22:39):
I've had a couple gay friendsin the past and we just talked.
They asked me questions.
I explained the gospel and they100% disagreed with me and I
100% disagreed with them.
But I did show them love everysingle day and they never, they
never sensed a bone in my bodythat I had bigotry, but they
(23:01):
knew that I stood firm on thegospel and I would not budge.
So, as a pastor, me personallyI would not go.
And she dances around it alittle bit and says, well, no,
yes, I would.
And I wouldn't, because I haveto make sure that I maintain a
(23:21):
certain reputation and notapprove of it.
And somebody might say well,what if it's a chance to
minister?
Well, you got to remember, ifI'm there as a public figure and
a pastor, people areautomatically going to sense it
as an approval.
So I wouldn't.
(23:41):
And let me give you an example,because some people are going
to probably say well, pastorJoshua, what if your kids did?
What if one of your childrencame out gay?
You're really going to be thathardcore Now, believe it or not?
I've had a discussion with themabout this and they know where
I'm at with this.
I would love them, I wouldaccept their decision, but I
(24:03):
would fear that they wouldperish and fear for their
eternal life Because I know theywould not be going to heaven.
And I've even told them I won'tattend a wedding if you were.
Now my kids aren't.
They've made that decision todo that.
But I told them that I wouldn't.
But I told them that I wouldlove them, I wouldn't shun them,
(24:27):
I wouldn't punish them.
But there's just no way I cango that far and I cannot accept
it as a minister of Christ,because I truly believe what the
word of God says.
Just like if my kids wereliving with somebody and refused
to get married and werefornicating or committing
(24:49):
adultery on their partner, Iwouldn't feel any different way.
And that might shock some people.
They say, like what I've endedfriendships, dear friendships
that I've loved, because I'vehad friends that looked at women
as sexual objects in the pastand I've tried talking to them
(25:16):
about the demeaning nature ofthat and what God thinks about
that, and showed them scripture.
And I even warned I'm not goingto be friends with you anymore
if you continue that behavior.
And they continued it and Iended friendships several of
them and I'm not going to beapologetic about it because when
it comes to homosexuality,fornication, adultery, sleeping
(25:38):
around, getting drunk all day,doing drugs, negativism,
extortion, slanders, gossipers,that's all in the same category.
So you can't pit me in a cornerabout a homosexual debate.
So you can't pit me in a cornerabout a homosexual debate,
(26:03):
because all of these sins, thiscontinuous behavior, is really,
really bad.
You know, 21st century Guys arerolling around, think it's cool
to have three or four girls atthe same time be having sex and
society's not going to judgethem.
Judge him why?
Cuz he's a stud.
That man's going to hell if hecontinues that behavior, refuses
(26:23):
to repent and stays there.
People that refuse to getmarried and honor their spouse,
even though we can biblicallydebate on what at what time are
you married?
There's a potential dangerthere.
Somebody that commits adulteryon their spouse, that makes vows
(26:50):
to them, is in danger ofhellfire.
But everybody likes to twistthe truth in this culture
no-transcript.
Speaker 4 (26:58):
Well, I don't you know if I had time.
Speaker 5 (26:59):
I would If they were friends of mine and I respect
them I would certainly go.
Speaker 6 (27:04):
You would watch two people you think are sinners
committing the ultimate sin.
Speaker 5 (27:09):
Well, I'm looking at it.
I don't think it's the ultimatesin, but I'm looking at it from
another point of view ofrespect to that person.
And you know it's, you know itgets convoluted but I'm looking
at it as respect to that person.
Speaker 6 (27:20):
Could you, in your position, actually actively
encourage people to go through asame-sex marriage?
Could you be seen to do it?
Could you be photographed atsuch an event?
Well, I would not.
Would that not cause youproblems?
Speaker 5 (27:32):
Well, you know, it's such a hypothetical and I'm
talking about?
Speaker 6 (27:36):
Well, not really, because you said lots of gay
people go to your church, so itmight happen.
Speaker 5 (27:40):
Well, I haven't been to many weddings lately, to
begin with, but I'm talkingabout somebody that was, you
know, dear to us.
I'm not going to disrespectsomebody that's dear to us and
say you know what, you're notgood enough for us or something
like that.
That's the way I would see itnow.
I'm not going to just run offand go to attend, you know,
certain marriages just to make astatement, because that's not
(28:01):
who I am and that's not what Istand for.
And again, I don't look down onthose people.
Speaker 3 (28:06):
Ladies and gentlemen, that is the most wishy-washy
statement I've ever heard.
Joel wants to please people, sobad that he will simply deny
the truth all the way Because hedoesn't want to be called out
or he doesn't want to be calledmean.
(28:27):
Let's read some scripture.
Are you ready?
Ladies and gentlemen?
This is the NIV translation andthis is chapter one, and we're
going to close out.
We probably got about fiveminutes for the show and we're
out of here.
Are you ready, paul, a servantof Jesus Christ, called to be an
apostle and set apart for theout of here.
Are you ready, paul, a servantof Jesus Christ, called to be an
apostle and set apart for thegospel of God, the gospel he
(28:48):
promised beforehand through theprophets and the holy scriptures
regarding his son who, as tohis earthly life, was a
descendant of David and who,through the spirit of holiness,
was appointed the son of God inpower by his resurrection from
the dead, jesus Christ, our Lord.
Through him, we received graceand apostleship to call the
(29:11):
Gentiles to the obedience thatcomes from faith for his name's
sake, and you also are amongthose Gentiles who are called to
belong, in Jesus Christ, to allRome, who are loved by God and
called to be his holy people.
Grace and peace to you from God, our Father, and from the Lord
Jesus Christ.
(29:32):
Now I'm going to jump down herebecause I don't want to go
through this whole thing, but Iwant to show you what Paul talks
about In verse 18.
The wrath of God is beingrevealed from heaven against all
the godlessness and wickednessof people who suppress the truth
by their wickedness, since whatmay be known about God is plain
(29:55):
to them because God has made itplain.
No-transcript specialrevelation is the scriptures
(30:38):
that god gave us.
The inspired finished productis actually the inspired text
the autographs, which we don'thave.
The originals we have.
The translation, which we don'thave.
The originals we have.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
the translation God has not chosen to give us the
autographs.
Speaker 3 (30:48):
So no man is without excuse, because God is a witness
, the creation is a witness.
The man still chooses to actwicked, for although they knew
God, they neither glorified himas God nor gave thanks to him.
But their thinking becamefutile and their foolish hearts
were darkened.
(31:08):
And they can't claim to be wise.
They became fools and exchangedthe glory of the immortal God
for images made to look likemortal human beings and birds
and animals and reptiles humanbeings and birds and animals and
reptiles.
So we're looking at aprogression of wickedness and
(31:30):
immorality.
And these people, they'reworshiping other gods and
they're moving away from the onetrue God and the witness is
creation and they're acting ontheir impulses.
And when people do that throughsin, god gives them completely
(31:52):
over and darkens their mind.
You ever wonder why the world iswhat it is.
I had a two-hour conversationwith a person today on the
customer service call from SRPand we just got into philosophy
and everything else and hewasn't a Christian.
But we got in such a deepconversation and he was so upset
(32:12):
and I understood why.
That people don't criticallythink anymore.
Over 50% of the country doesn'teven read anymore.
They pretty much get everythingfrom media.
There's no interest in deepthought why we're here, who God
is.
Intelligent design.
People simply just live theirlife as a zombie, the walking
(32:34):
dead, and they will poureverything else.
They will pour every ounce ofenergy of who they are into
everything but God and evenfinding out who he is, spending
thirteen to sixteen hundredhours a year watching Netflix
and zero time even asking thequestions why am I even here?
(32:59):
What is the meaning ofeverything?
Verse 24, ladies and gentlemen,therefore, god gave them over,
in the sinful desires of theirhearts, to sexual impurity for
the degrading of their bodieswith one another.
They exchanged the truth aboutGod for a lie and worshipped and
(33:19):
served, created things ratherthan the creator who is praised
for ever, and I want you toreally pay attention on this
next verse before I let you guysgo because of this.
God gave them over to shamefullust.
Even their women exchangednatural sexual relations for
unnatural, unnatural ones.
In the same way, the men alsoabandoned natural relations with
(33:42):
women and were inflamed withlust for one another, men
committed shameful acts withother men and received in
themselves the due penalty fortheir error.
Furthermore, just as they didnot think it worthwhile to
retain the knowledge of God, soGod gave them over to a depraved
(34:04):
mind.
So what was the penalty ofgoing too far in sin in general?
It is God's judgment in givingone over to a depraved mind and
a darkened mind and embracingthat and falling further and
(34:25):
further away.
We'll continue this next time,ladies and gentlemen, because
this is a 30-minute show.
We can go on and on and on, butI want you to understand
something that if you're sinning, repent.
Ask Christ to come into yourlife, bow to him as the king,
(34:47):
ask to be redeemed by jesus'sblood, experience salvation.
Answer quick answer questions.
Ask questions.
Research the scriptures.
God faithful.
Ladies and gentlemen, untilnext time.
God bless you all.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
Until we meet again.
This is the Saints WillOvercome with Pastor Joshua.
He is jealous for me, loveslike a hurricane.
I am a tree Bending beneath theweight of his wind and mercy
when, all of a sudden, I amunaware of these afflictions,
(35:48):
eclipsed by glory, and I realizejust how beautiful you are and
how great your affections arefor me.
And oh, how he loves us.
Oh, oh, how he loves us, how heloves us all.
(36:17):
And he is jealous for me.
Loves like a hurricane.
(36:37):
I am a tree, bending the knee,the weight of His wind and mercy
.
When, all of a sudden, I amunaware of these afflictions,
eclipsed by glory, and I realizejust how beautiful you are and
(37:04):
how great your affections arefor me.
Oh, how he loves.
Yeah, he loves us.
Oh, how he loves us.
Oh, how he loves us.
Oh, how he loves.
(37:26):
And we are His portion and heis our prize, drawn to
redemption by the grace in Hiseyes.
If His grace Is an ocean, we'reall sinking and heaven meets
(37:51):
earth Like an unforeseen kissand my heart turns violently
Inside of my chest.
I don't have time To maintainthese regrets when I think about
the way, oh, how he loves usall, oh, how he loves us, how he
(38:22):
loves us, how he loves us all,how he loves.
Yeah, he loves us.
Oh, how he loves us.
Oh, how he loves us.
Oh, how he loves.
Oh, what love.
(38:43):
Yeah, he loves us.
Yeah, he loves us how he lovesus.
Oh, how he loves us.
Oh, how he loves us all.
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