May 19, 2025 • 63 mins
- Tune in every Monday for a new episode of "The Saints That Serve Podcast" -
Catholic vs. Protestant: What’s the Difference?
In this episode, we explore the appointment of Pope Leo XIV and dive into the key differences between Catholic and Protestant beliefs. From church history and papal authority to communion, saints, and scripture, we break down centuries of Christian tradition in a fun and thought-provoking way. Whether you're Catholic, Protestant, or just curious, this conversation offers insight, humor, and a reminder of the shared faith in Jesus that unites us all.
#CatholicVsProtestant #ChristianPodcast #ChurchHistory
#PopeLeoXIV #CatholicTradition #ProtestantBeliefs #FaithInJesus
#ChristianUnity #TheologyTalk #SaintsThatServe #ChristianDebate
#BibleAndTradition #ReformationHistory #EcumenicalFaith #WorshipTogether
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Welcome to the Saints that Serve, podcast where, each
week, your hosts dive into thecrossroads of faith, culture and
the unknown.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Christ is Lord and the kingdom is now.
We are the Saints that Serve.
Hey everybody, welcome to theSaints that Serve podcast.
(00:41):
That's the Saints that Servepodcast.
Ooh, mamacita, ring the bell.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
What?
Hey, hey, calm down.
Sacred Demile was two episodesago.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
No, you know, Lava La-la-la-lava, ch-ch-ch-chicken.
Oh yeah, yeah, from theMinecraft movie, yeah, which our
review is coming soon.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Yes, tune in in a future date to listen to our
review of the Minecraft movie,which we've only watched once.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
We only have watched once, because it's in theaters
and you'll have to tune in tofind out.
I almost said what I thoughtabout it, but I guess it's not
in theaters anymore now, right,yeah, we happened to catch it on
the last day it was showing.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
And our reason was we didn't want to risk getting
caught up in some sort ofmadness Okay, yeah, we can talk
about the chicken jockeynonsense, okay, not necessarily
our feelings about it in theactual movie, but everyone was
very good about posting online.
How crazy people got in themovie theaters about the chicken
(01:48):
jockey scene, mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Which everything all the videos I saw were, you know.
So a chicken jockey shows up.
Jack Black's character sayschicken jockey, yeah.
And somehow or another thatcorrelated to everybody going
berserk in the theater throwingtheir popcorn and stealing the
fire extinguishers and shootingthe fire extinguishers off and
(02:13):
all this nonsense.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
I saw a video where people had brought fireworks
into the movie.
It's ridiculous.
And set fireworks off.
It got crazy.
So we waited to the very end togo see it.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
For all that and I'll be- honest, that moment in the
movie is not that major of alike hype moment.
It's just Jack Black sayschicken jockey and then the
fight keeps going.
Like it's not that big of amoment.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Yeah, we're going to save all of our thoughts for
when we do the review, becausewe don't want to.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
I'm just saying it's just like it's's.
It was so weird that we wentand saw that, yeah, on that date
, to avoid the crowd of childrengoing berserk in the theaters.
And it didn't happen for us,luckily.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Yeah, but then we saw the scene that everyone was
going crazy for and we were likewhat?
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Yeah, like why is?
What is?
What is this that shows our age?
Juras that shows our age, butalso, I'll be honest, that was
not the most quotable moment tome in the movie at all.
There's so many better quotes.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
That's my point is there's a disconnect between us
and the younger generation.
You're right about that, andnow we're like I don't get it.
Dude, I remember all the timegrowing up when it was like, oh,
doing the funny thing or thecool thing or the relatable
thing with your friends and yourparents are like that's stupid,
what are you doing?
Speaker 1 (03:35):
Right, but also, at the same time, none of our like
trying to be cool.
Stupid things was everdestructive.
Stupid things was everdestructive, I know.
But I mean, yeah, all right,we'll save it for when we do the
review.
Yeah, I don't again that.
I don't think that reveals ourfeelings on the movie at all.
No, no, no, just our feelingson a really stupid trend.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Yeah, I have several things to say that revolve
around it, but I want to save itfor the content of the review.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
Yeah, so stay tuned for that.
Yeah, but you know we're nottalking about chicken jockeys on
this episode.
No, we're talking about butwe're talking about our
announcements.
Do we have any before we getinto the main topic?
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Just if you need prayer, you can email us at
saints that serve at gmailcom,or you can click the link at the
bottom of the description forthis show and it'll take you to
a sms messaging page and you cantext us your prayer request
also.
We are doing another livestream worship the first friday.
(04:37):
I believe it's the sixth juneyeah, june here I am being unpre
, not having the calendar.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
I only know because it's the day after the Switch 2
comes out.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Oh, there you go.
Yeah, so June 6th we'll bedoing another online live stream
worship night, and then we weregoing to be doing an inductive
study course in the month ofJune.
I think we're going to push itout one more month and it'll be
in July.
Okay, so just stay tuned forupdates on that, but right now
(05:07):
it's just if you need prayerreach out and if you're
interested in the inductiveBible study course, reach out.
Yeah, reach out, and we'll letyou know when it's coming your
way.
And then, yeah, live streamworship and we'll have more info
on our actual sister channel.
That's coming out.
Oh, it, actual sister channelthat's coming out.
Oh it's already out.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
The Saints that Play.
I mean, the channel exists,there's just no content on it,
no new content.
Okay, so it's an old streamingchannel that's been converted
into a new streaming channel forour brand now, so it's the
Saints that Play.
It used to be Regal Games, yeah, so all the Regal Games content
is on there, so you can go.
(05:45):
It's weird.
It's so weird.
If you go to saints that play,you can watch the regal games
content.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Yeah, and it's us.
I mean it's us playing games,but uh, yeah, jairus is heading
that up and he'll have more infofor when that's actually
dropping, so just stay tunedcheck out our socials.
The plan still is sometime inJune and you can actually go
ahead and subscribe to theSaints that Play right now on
(06:13):
Facebook and Instagram andYouTube.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
It's on there as the Saints that Play, so if you want
to subscribe to that, thenyou'll be able to get updates
for when we're launching and allthat stuff and then you'll be
able to get updates for whenwe're launching and all that
stuff, and so that content willbe releasing, being mindful of
the saints that serve as wellwhen the podcast content come
out, so you'll be always gettingsaints content.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Correct.
Yeah, and when we play it's allkinds of stuff.
It's Minecraft, it's firstperson shooters kinds of stuff.
It's minecraft, it's firstperson shooters, it's I think
you played stardew valley withstardew valley with janelle one
time, so all kinds of stuff Ithink we're gonna.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
I think it'll be very diverse in what we play,
because it's not really aboutwhat we're playing as much as
it's just entertainingentertaining, yeah.
So because there's nights thatwe will have just me playing,
we'll have you as guest.
Ashley is a guest, janelle willbe guest on that.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
It just will be really varied depending on what
we feel like playing that timeSure thing.
So tune in and enjoy that whenit happens.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
When it happens.
Yep, that's all theannouncements we got.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
That's right, and you know what that means.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
It's time for our transition, Tyler, into our main
topic.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
So, Tyler, this is your transition.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Into the main topic for episode 36, which is the
Catholic Church.
The Catholic Church yeah, ithas been weeks since the Pope
was elected.
The new Pope.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
So peek behind the curtain.
It's only been a couple of dayssince we've been recording, but
the way that we are releasingthis is going to be a couple
weeks.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Jairus is leaving me with his wife for France for a
week.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
We are going on vacation, so we're pre-recording
episodes way in advance.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
He's abandoning me for Europe and that's how it is.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
I talked to my wife and I said what do you want to
get?
Do you want to exchange giftsfor our one-year anniversary?
She was like I want anauthentic baguette.
No, she said, I want Europe,europe.
So we are prepping for this.
So if some information in thisepisode is out of date or
(08:30):
anything like that, blame timeyeah, keeper of us all.
But yeah, we have a.
Well, there is.
I almost said we have a newPope, but there is a new Pope.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
There is a new Pope, and his name is not Peter.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
So the End of the world is not happening?
Yeah, the Do you want toexplain?
Speaker 2 (08:51):
that it's called the Prophecy of Popes, and it's
basically this guy.
I don't even remember what timeframe it was, but he predicted
a lot of the popes that cameinto succession and he predicted
that, basically, pope francis,there'd be one more after him
(09:13):
and then that would be the endof the catholic church, but the
final pope would be named peter.
So this is the pope after popefrancis, and his name's not
peter.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
So it's an american man yeah, born in chicago, born
in chicago.
Um, his name is robert, right.
Well, now it's leo, right?
So his pope name is leo, yeah,but his name is robert something
, if I'm not mistaken.
Oh yeah, so I guess they canjust change the name and not in
(09:45):
the world yeah, I didn't, well,it's, it's.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
It's a normal practice for the pope to take on
whenever he becomes the pope,to take on another name, because
that's I.
I think that well, I could betotally misspeaking here, but
because when Peter, when Christcalled Peter, you know your name
(10:09):
is Peter, his name was Simon,but Christ gave him a name of
Peter into ministry and theCatholics.
Well, I guess he was at onepoint Peter was the Bishop of
Rome, so they hold that.
You know he's the head of thechurch on earth.
Christ designated Peter as thehead of the church.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
It is Robert Francis Prevost, the new Pope Leo XIV.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
And before he was a Cardinal at the vatican.
He served for 40 years in southamerica, in peru.
So you know he's born inchicago but it's been most of
his life in peru so he'samerican born but really hasn't
lived a whole lot in america.
(11:02):
I mean in comparison to time?
Yeah, Because I mean heprobably moved and started doing
when he was old enough to go asan adult to Peru.
But yeah, he grew up in Chicago.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
What is the rules of becoming the Pope?
Do you just need to serve inthe Catholic Church for a
certain amount of time?
Speaker 2 (11:32):
The only ones that I know of right now is that you
have to be a part of the Collegeof Cardinals and you have to be
under 85.
So if you're 85 or older, youcannot serve as the Pope.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
And then you're the Pope until you die right, or you
step down.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Yeah, yeah, but they started doing I can't remember
what they call it when all thecardinals come together to
determine who the next Pope isgoing to be.
It's like the conclave, maybeit's the conclave of the
cardinals.
Anyways, they all go get lockedin a room until they determine
(12:10):
who the next pope is, and then,apparently there's a tradition
with smoke.
If black smoke comes out of thechimney, there's some sort of
issue that's causing them tocontinue on and they have not
elected a pope yet.
But if white smoke comes out ofthe chimney, to continue on and
they have not elected a popeyet.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
But if white smoke comes out of the chimney, it
means that they have elected apope, so you're telling me that
they can't stick their head outthe door and be like not yet no,
because you got to remember.
The catholic church is allabout tradition and you know
tradition, and what am I tryingto say?
I don't know.
Yeah, I know I'm awful at thistradition and just being to a t
(12:52):
meticulous well, it's traditionsand mechanical to a t the I
need a thesaurus, are youtalking?
about like performance.
It's kind of like a performance, yeah, like it's to a T, the
you know meticulous performanceof it all and tradition and all
(13:15):
that stuff behind it they areheavy on traditions and the
practice of traditions.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
And yeah, practice of traditions, and yeah, they do.
The pageantry is also there too, so not letting any room for
God to lead.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Whoa Got him now Hot take.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
Anyways, do you want to?
What do you want to talk aboutwhen it comes to the Catholics?
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Well, let's kind of get a little bit of a comparison
here, okay, between.
So this when I say ChristianityI mean you say Christ,
christianity, christ,christianity, christ.
When I say Christianity I meanlike the more American view on a
(14:05):
church, western, protestant.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
So it's Christianity versus Catholicism.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Okay, and so which, just so everybody knows, I
believe that there are Catholicsthat are Christians that do
believe in Christ as theirsavior and follow him.
So it's.
I do not fall in the camp ofsaying that Catholicism is
(14:33):
anti-Christ.
I just disagree with theirdoctrines, a lot of the
doctrines that they hold as achurch.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
And when I was doing my research and kind of reading
into it, I was kind of moreleaning towards of a hundred
percent wrong, because I didn'tknow as much as I do now.
Yeah, in that sense of you know, like you said, it's really
more of some of the things thatthey, it's their church
(15:02):
traditions, not their.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Yeah, yeah, and like what they,how they do church is kind of
how I disagree with it.
Sure, but their beliefs are nottoo far off from christianity.
And again, when I saychristianity, I mean protestant,
thank you, there you, I meanProtestant, thank you, there you
(15:23):
go.
Yeah, so Christianity,protestants, is a monotheistic
religion centered on the life,death and resurrection of Jesus
Christ.
Yep, all Christians believeJesus is the Son of God and the
Savior of humanity.
Correct, there you go.
Now.
Catholicism traces its rootsback to Jesus' apostles,
(15:43):
especially Peter, which I justneed to interject here real
quick.
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
So does every denomination Sure, just so we're
clear.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
But claims an unbroken line of apostolic
succession through popes andbishops.
Okay, catholic means universal.
It aims to be the global church.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Yeah, the word Catholic means universal, so the
Catholic Church is theuniversal church.
Right Is the understanding ofit and that was the idea behind
it.
But just so everybody knows,christianity was illegal in the
Roman Empire until the Edict ofMilan by Emperor Constantine I
(16:34):
in 313 AD.
So up until 313 AD there werechurches and they had bishops,
overseers and deacons, but theywere all kind of their own deals
in their own cities and therewasn't like unity in the sense
(16:55):
that what the Catholics pushedto say like hey, we are the
universal church and all thechurches come together as one
unified body of Christ.
That wasn't happening until theCouncil of Nicaea, which
happened in 325.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
AD.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
So the Roman Catholics will say that they
date their papacy back to Peterat the beginning of the church,
which possibly.
But the idea of the Catholicchurch wasn't legitimate until
at least 325 AD, whenConstantine called the Council
(17:38):
of Nicaea and brought togetherall the bishops from the
different cities, all the let meclarify that all of the Gentile
bishops from the differentcities brought them all together
so they could all agree ondoctrine and get streamlined, or
unified, if you will.
So it seems like the idea of aunified church didn't really
(18:05):
happen in the sense ofleadership, hierarchical
leadership, didn't really happenuntil 325 AD at the earliest.
And then the Edict ofThessalonica by Emperor
Theodosius I happened in 380.
(18:28):
And the Edict of Thessalonicamade Christianity the main
religion of the Roman Empire.
So or the state religion, ifyou will, or the state religion,
if you will.
So it did away with pantheonismand the Roman gods and stuff
and converted to Christianity asan empire.
(18:50):
So that's when we start to seethe idea of the pope and papacy
and the different bishops fromdifferent cities coming together
and appointing a leader tooversee all the different cities
and stuff.
(19:10):
But yeah, you know the Bible.
There would be argument to saythat there is a hierarchy or
first among equals, if you will,in the book of Acts and some of
Paul's epistles kind of supportthis where it seems like the
church in Jerusalem, theChristian church in Jerusalem,
(19:30):
holds honor and respect amongother churches because it's the
first church, I guess, inChristianity.
And then Paul points out or Iguess technically Luke points
out in the book of Acts that itseems that James, the brother of
(19:52):
Jesus, is held in honor amongall of the leaders at the church
in Jerusalem.
So that would be Peter, thatwould be John, that would be
Andrew, all the differentapostles that are still alive
(20:15):
during that meeting.
So you could kind of say thatwhere you know the unification
in some regards would be,everyone respects the church in
Jerusalem because it's the firstone and it would seem that the
leader or the first among equalsguy or bishop over the first
church in Jerusalem is James,the brother of Christ.
(20:37):
So which I don't know whatCatholics do with that.
I don't know if theyacknowledge that James and Jude
are Christ's brothers, jude,yeah.
Because the Bible mentions them.
But the Catholics also say thatMary is a virgin.
(20:58):
She only had Christ throughimmaculate conception.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
That would kind of throw a wrench into her, which,
to my understanding, they viewher as the Virgin Mary, like
you're saying, but perpetuallythe Virgin Mary.
So they probably don'tacknowledge that Jesus had
siblings.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
Yeah, the idea is that she didn't have other
children, so Joseph would havehad to have had those children
via another mother, which iscrazy because—.
Which would not make them thebrothers and sisters of Christ,
right?
So which?
(21:36):
The Bible doesn't say that.
But this is where I think thebiggest difference between
Protestant and Catholics isProtestants.
We hold to sola scriptura,which is God's word alone, or
(22:06):
the greatest Bible, or God'sword and church tradition hold
equal authority and there's anargument to be made.
I heard one guy make anargument that how do you get the
validity of the Bible being theauthority of God without it
being compiled?
And who's the authority thatcompiles it?
(22:26):
It's the church.
So you know, I could look atthat as an argument.
But at the same time, if it'sGod's word and God's going to
preserve it, he'll preserve itin any way that he sees fit to
do so.
So you know, just because wecan date the means of which he
preserves his word and thelocation and all the people over
(22:49):
there doesn't necessarily meanthat like they had greater
authority than the Bible orequal authority to the Bible.
It just means that God usedthem to preserve his scripture.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
Preserve his scripture, you know something
that I think is major differencebetween the two is that you
know and you'll have to help mebecause I'm struggling with the
word yeah, so Christianity, alsoknown as Protestants, thank you
, they have.
It's a lot of small communities, a lot of small churches
(23:24):
running independently.
Or maybe you know a church thatopens up a few different
locations locally, but they'reall ran, but it's like maybe at
most five churches all ranwithin the same community type
thing.
Sure, where the Catholic churchis ran through the authority of
(23:47):
the head church right.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
Yes, they get there.
The authority goes upwards andat the pinnacle of it is the
Pope Right.
Yeah, so he passes.
You know there is the court ofcardinals that handle
legislation and stuff within thechurch, but ultimately the
final decision is always made bythe Pope and he decrees what
will happen and all of thatRight, and that's something I
(24:15):
personally, though I don'treally agree with.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
How, again, what they believe not so much, but the
way that they run the church iswhere I disagree with.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
Oh, I disagree with some of the stuff that they
believe in.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
I mean, but majority how they run it?
Yeah, but I do like the idea ofchurches locally being held
accountable to something.
Yeah, I do like that.
There is a hierarchy in thesense, not in the sense that
they have a man figurehead, sure, but that they have, like you
(24:47):
said, the cardinal of bishops.
I like the idea behind that andI kind of wish we were more in
unity as the church.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Sure, I think that's probably one of the crazy things
about the Protestant movementis because it started with that
point of you know, we want toreform back to what God's word
says, so we do that, and thenthere'll be disagreement.
(25:20):
Well, okay, hold on.
Well okay, hold on.
The church, regardless of whattime, has always had issues with
disagreement of Scripture,interpretation of Scripture,
which causes a divide, right?
So because we've got an exampleof the Eastern Orthodox Church
(25:41):
and the Roman Catholic Church.
They were one church Rightuntil 1054 AD, and this is
called the Great Schism.
This is where the EasternOrthodox Church divides itself
from the Roman Catholic Churchand goes its own way and says we
(26:03):
are no longer one churchanymore because the Orthodoxy
wanted to hold to more traditionand the Catholics were doing
stuff.
So there's a divide there,breaking the idea of the
universal church, because therewas a split.
And then, 500 years later aboutis when Martin Luther, 500
(26:28):
years later, about is whenMartin Luther nailed the 95
Theses on the church door whichstarted the movement of the
Reformation and Protestantmovement, which was in 1517.
So there's another big split.
So you know, the church hasalways been doing throughout
(26:49):
history has been doing that.
It's not like there was a onething in time that caused a
divide.
We've been great about creatingcamps and division.
I think it's important torealize that, like the unity in
(27:11):
Christ is the unity in that inChrist.
Like we set aside ourdifferences and preferences and
hold to the infallible truths ofwho Christ is and the doctrine
of well, I shouldn't saydoctrine, but the truth which is
in the gospel.
So I should be able to lay downmy personal theological
(27:32):
preferences and beliefs, tounify with Catholics and
Orthodoxes and Baptists andLutherans and Anglicans for the
sake of the gospel, to make thegospel known in all the earth.
Like I should be able to workwith people from all
denominations.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
But they typically don't.
If you don't agree with them,they don't want to have anything
to do with you, even though, atits base, we believe the same
thing.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Yeah, kind of there are.
I mean, there's some extremes,Like there are Catholics that
don't believe any Protestant canbe saved because they don't
partake in the CatholicEucharist, which is, you know,
the communion.
We do communion and we do it asa.
What's the term I'm looking for?
(28:24):
It's a discipline, a spiritualdiscipline that we do to
remember Christ's sacrifice forus.
You know, the bread becomes theflesh of Christ.
Symbolic, yeah, for us it'ssymbolic to remember Christ's
(28:44):
body broken for us, and the wineis Christ's blood poured out
for us, and so it's imagery forus to bring us back to
remembrance of Christ'saccomplishments, for us to atone
for our sins.
The Catholics believe that itphysically becomes Christ's
(29:07):
flesh when it enters your mouth.
And physically and they believe, well, no, not when it enters
your mouth they believe it isChrist's flesh and Christ's
blood that you are consuming andyou have to do it to partake in
Christ's crucifixion.
So it's almost like a I can'tsay symbolic because they don't
(29:29):
think it's symbolic.
They think that it is Christbeing crucified Well, not being
crucified, but they believe it'sChrist's atonement happening
every time you take it, so whythe?
cannibalism?
Well, because Christ calls ithis flesh and his blood.
So they just take it in thatsense, in the literal sense of
(29:55):
we are consuming Christ's flesh,we are drinking his blood,
which, ironically, is an issuethat Romans and other
polytheistic cultures had anissue with Christianity.
Some of them thought that theywere a sect of Judaism that was
an occult that would practicecannibalism.
Because the early church usedthat rhetoric of eating Christ's
(30:21):
flesh and drinking Christ'sblood during the time of
communion.
So the irony is there, peopleon the outside were like, oh,
they're cannibals.
And then people inside werelike this is what we do because
Christ told us to.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
And then here we are, and then they see Christ as a
cannibal.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
Not Christ Christians .
Christ didn't eat, as far as weknow, didn't eat his own flesh
and drink his own blood.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
No, but he commanded us to yeah.
He commanded cann.
He commanded us to yeah.
He commanded cannibalism.
Yes, I'm making a very bad joke.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
Yeah, but yeah.
So it is pretty interesting,and I think that the if anyone's
Orthodox or knows more aboutOrthodoxy than me, I think that
the Orthodox have a same samebut different orthodoxy than me.
I think that the orthodox havea same same but different.
So they believe that once thebread enters your mouth, it
(31:16):
becomes Christ's flesh, and onceyou drink the wine, it becomes
Christ's blood once it entersinto you.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
Oh my goodness, like just them sitting there eating,
and they're like oh my goodness,are we all made of bread?
Speaker 2 (31:32):
Yeah.
So yeah it is, it is prettyinteresting.
But you know it's I don't know.
I I have to me those things areI.
They don't make sense to mebecause I don't see them holding
up in scripture make sense tome because I don't see them
(31:53):
holding up in scripture.
And I mean, I'm willing to beproved wrong on that.
But the biggest thing thatCatholics get away with is
because they believe in thatchurch tradition is equal to
scripture and authority.
They don't need to have a Bibleverse to support what they do
because it falls under churchtradition.
So that's where the starkdifference is.
(32:16):
We can't even have an argumentbecause we don't share the same
bedrock foundation with eachother, foundation with each
other.
So if we both believed in soloscriptura, scripture alone, then
(32:38):
we could get into the word andtry and hash out a conclusion.
But because for a lot of thestuff that they practice it's
tradition, not necessarilyscriptural, they can get away
with it.
I shouldn't say get away withit.
They do it and they don't needto bring a counter-argument to
(33:00):
me because this is a part oftheir tradition which is equal
to the authority of Scripture.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
So with solo scriptura, I have some talking
points of what Protestants, whatwe believe, versus what they
believe and, like you said, solaScriptura, which is scripture
alone, individualinterpretations emphasized.
(33:28):
Right, we're able to interpret,but with Catholicism it's
scripture plus traditionauthority, interpreted by the
magistratum Magistratum.
Yes, bishops in communion withthe Pope, having for them it's
somebody else telling you whatthis means and not really having
(33:52):
you know the ability for you tointerpret it and it's tradition
and the problem with that, asalways, is it tradition being
passed down?
Speaker 2 (34:02):
it can be wrong yeah, and that was the big thing with
lutheran is, and he wasn't thefirst one, like like to be clear
.
There were other people inhistory who wanted to translate
the Bible into the common tongue, for whatever region they were
in, so that more people couldread God's word.
(34:23):
Martin Luther just was the onewho was able to do it.
The Catholic Church held atight hold on the Scripture and
keeping it in Latin, becausethey believed it was so sacred
that it had to be read andtranslated by the ordained
(34:46):
officials of the church.
And the commoner or the commonperson wasn't holy enough to
read it or to understand it, sothey needed a teacher to reveal
the truths of god's word to them.
Which what does that sound like?
(35:07):
It sounds like sadducee andPharisee practice of Judaism.
I was going to say a cult.
A cult, no Well, but to me itkind of pulls back into that.
You can't know the meaning ofGod's word.
You have to come before us, thelearned hierarchy, to
(35:28):
understand God's word.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
We know what it says.
We'll tell you what you need toknow.
Yeah exactly, and that kind ofgoes into my other point and
kind of like my problem with it,yeah, is that you have to go to
a earthly person yeah, aearthly person, yeah, earthly
(35:55):
man in a box and talk to them,and then they will bring your
sins to christ you're talkingabout for repentance yes yeah,
which is good in a?
sense, because again it's like,like you're saying, and sorry to
interrupt, you're're good, butit's again it's, they're doing
things almost right.
You know what I mean?
Yeah, holding, we should holdeach other accountable, we
(36:17):
should confess our sins to oneanother, but at the end of the
day, you have to repent becausewe have a direct line to God,
correct, so we, we can talk topeople to help us better and,
you know, get through our sinsto improve and to where we don't
(36:38):
do them.
Again, be held accountable forour actions.
Yeah, but again they kind ofit's.
You have to go to this personwho then goes to God for you
person who then goes to God foryou.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
Yeah, and I think that that's the big thing with
Catholicism in particular isthere, especially now, with
everything that's happened inhistory and to where we're at
this point in the world.
Really, because of theReformation, because of the
Protestants and the movementsand everything, and now anybody
can read God's Word and all ofthat it's gotten to the point to
(37:15):
where they're like, hey, likethese are the truths of the
gospel and these are thepractices of sanctification, and
if you want to do them theright way, you need to go about
it the way that the church hasset them up right.
Most Catholics would encourageyou like, hey, yeah, you can go
(37:36):
to your friends and ask them topray for you and confess your
sins to them and stuff.
But if you're going to be apart of the church, like be a
part of the program for thechurch, which is, you know,
repent to your local shepherd,come to mass, come to
confessional, you know all thatstuff.
(37:56):
So you know, I don'tnecessarily have an issue with
that, but as long as it's nottaking the place, as long as
you're not making that like theordination, like God ordained it
to be that particular way andno other way works for
repentance, then I don't know,because the Bible makes the
(38:19):
point repent of your sins to oneanother and pray for one
another and build one another upin the faith.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
So Well another part of it, at least from what I've
seen on television and whatnotit's you confess your sins and
then they tell you what you needto do after that to be forgiven
.
So do 50 Hail Marys andwhatever.
Essentially, the person in thebox has the power and knowledge
(38:47):
to how you are to be forgiven,which?
Speaker 2 (38:52):
I believe is passed down from the papacy.
So they're relaying theinformation of like, hey, this
is your sin.
This is what the church holdsas tradition for you to do to
practice repentance.
So you've repented, you've beenforgiven of sin, you've been
redeemed through christ.
But now, after repentance,depending on what sin it was,
(39:15):
there's some penance that goesinto it and they give you the
different things.
It's a, it's a spiritualpractice, for sanctification is
how the catholics would view itand for us, you know, obviously
we don, obviously we don't havethings like Hail Marys and
things like that that we do, orrosaries or anything like that
(39:36):
as Protestants.
But another thing that we'renot doing as well is we're not
actually confessing our sins toone another.
You know we'll do a prayer toGod and that's as far as it goes
.
You know there's no union ofthe congregation, of the
community, and that's whatProtestants do awful.
(39:58):
That's what they're awful at iscommunity and coming together
and being unified and repentingof sins to one another and
seeking to abide by theleadership in your community,
because we believe that Godworks through leaders and then
working together to go out andmake the gospel known.
(40:21):
The Catholic Church has apresence in almost the entire
world.
You know and not to say thatProtestants don't but our church
that we go to, we've got sisterchurches in South America and
then there's two in our area andthat's it.
(40:42):
Yeah, and we don't know anybody.
You and I don't know anybodyfrom those churches, I barely
know the people where we gobuilding, because there's two
different services.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
There's two different services.
Speaker 2 (40:52):
I think there's about 400 people that attend at our
church, so like and we don'tknow all of them there's room
for us to be more—there's roomfor more unity, I guess, is what
I'm trying to say.
And the idea of repenting toone another or confessing—sorry,
not repenting confessing oursins to one another, is not
(41:13):
really encouraged, is not reallypromoted and practiced.
You know, we do do confessionalat church, where we have a time
of prayer and an elder willcome up, read some scripture and
then pray with a heart ofrepentance like God forgive us
of these things.
Pray with a heart of repentancelike God forgive us of these
things, but like I'm not goingup to another brother in the
(41:35):
church and saying like, hey, Ineed to confess these things,
and then praying for one another, like that's not happening.
So, if anything, we need to dothat.
Speaker 1 (41:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:44):
You know so yeah.
Do you want to talk about someof the weird stuff in the
Catholic Church?
I thought we already were.
No, I'm kidding.
I'm kidding.
I found out today that there isa chapel for the Holy Mother
Mary and in it is a holy relicfor the Catholic Church.
(42:06):
It is the breast milk of theHoly Virgin Mother.
Speaker 1 (42:12):
Oh, my gosh.
Speaker 2 (42:14):
And the church is set up for women who are trying to
get pregnant.
Speaker 1 (42:18):
They can go to this church and the Holy Mother will
pray for them to become pregnant, and can I say that that is
something that is also odd to me, very odd.
Well, that's very odd, but kindof banking off of, you're
saying the Holy Mary, I mean theHoly Mother, will pray for you,
yeah, yeah.
So that is a weird thing to methat they do, which is they
(42:41):
don't just pray to God, theypray to their saints, who then
will then intercede for them.
So they'll pray to Mary andthen Mary will pray for you, and
that's so odd to me.
Speaker 2 (42:56):
Yeah, you know, I know in Protestant camps we
liken it to polytheism, likeyou're praying to things besides
God and you shouldn't be doingthat.
And then the Catholics willargue we're not praying to them,
we're asking them to pray forus.
Speaker 1 (43:16):
Right, but at the end of the day, are they here, or
are you praying, or are youasking and talking to what you
believe to be a spirit?
Speaker 2 (43:26):
Yeah, and so there are Dude, so much.
But, like, the argument is, thesaints are in heaven looking
down on us cheering us on as werun the race, and so when we get
into that time of prayer and weask the saint of whatever,
(43:48):
whatever, to pray, pray for us,for this, then you know he's
looking down from heaven, orshe's looking down from heaven,
and they hear it and they'relike okay, yeah, we're going to,
we're going to practiceintercessory prayer right now
that the mediator, christ, willbring your case before God.
Speaker 1 (44:04):
Which again is weird, because again it's you, it's
again the.
You don't have a direct line togod.
You have to pray to these otherpeople, who then bring it to
god.
Uh, or confess your sins to anearthly person, who then brings
it to probably somebody else,who then brings it to somebody
else, who then brings it to god,yeah, and so on and so forth,
(44:25):
and it's and I think that thereis that in certain camps of
catholicism but I think there'salso catholics would say no, I
do take this before God as apetition.
Speaker 2 (44:36):
I just try to get backup and help, just like how I
would go and ask hey, I'm goingthrough this right now.
Could you pray for me, like tomy mom or to my friend or
whoever?
I'm also doing it to the saintsin heaven.
I'm asking them to practiceintercessory prayer for me, just
like I would anyone who's aliveright now in my community.
(44:57):
I'm also getting their aid aswell while I bring this before
the Lord.
So you know, it's definitelynot a cut and dry, one size fits
all.
Inside of catholicism there'sdefinitely camps, and so which
also there's camps of.
Speaker 1 (45:16):
I mean we've talked about it before of what we
disagree within um, within theprotestant church, yeah, or
protestant movement, right, uh,yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:26):
But yeah, dude, when I was here I heard that today,
the breast milk, the Holy MotherMary, do you have to keep
bringing it up?
And if you're Catholic, well,but if you're Catholic, that
means that when Christ wasnursing as a baby, or right when
he was about to finish nursingas a baby, Mary had the idea,
(45:46):
mary preserved her milk and thensomehow was able to pass it on
for 300 years or 400 years tothe establishment of the Roman
church.
And so, like what Like?
(46:07):
How did that, how was that?
Speaker 1 (46:10):
it is.
It's so weird and it's kind ofuh, idol worship, if you ask me
well, yeah, that that's where Iget into.
Speaker 2 (46:16):
that's where we get into the weeds of idolatry,
because there is imagery of whatthe patron saint of whatever
looks like and they've got thissacred thing that's from them,
and because they're consideredholy by church tradition.
The object is holy.
Speaker 1 (46:35):
Right, like you said, they have their sacred relics
and this, again, it all comesfrom human people, you know,
yeah, and again it all comesfrom human people, you know, it
all comes from earthly people,not something that you know yeah
, we have, you know the TenCommandments, but that's
something that you know likedirectly was touched by God.
(46:59):
I mean that is a sacred object,but it makes sense to me
because that is something fromheaven touched by God.
Speaker 2 (47:07):
Yeah, and I mean there's things like, you know,
the shroud of Christ, his burialshroud, like the I know what
you're talking about.
The Catholics claim to havethat, which you know.
I could consider that a holyrelic because it was on Christ's
face, right.
That one, yeah, I could agreewith.
There's different things likethat which you know.
I could consider that a holyrelic because it was on Christ's
face, right, you know.
And that one, yeah, I couldagree with.
There's different things likethat.
(47:28):
But like there's so many holyrelics that they have that they
they put a special significanceto, I mean, like there's there I
can I can't remember what saintit is, but they have a
preserved head of a saint as aholy relic.
It's like, why would you dothat?
(47:49):
Yeah, what is the need of that?
What is the point?
Yeah, and it's because thatsaint did something crazy
awesome.
That was a miracle that theypreserved his head so that it
could be used for for whatever.
So that's where I, when we getinto catholicism, that's where
(48:10):
it gets weird for me, is when wetalk about holy relics, right,
and some of the, some of therelics that they have, and it's
like I don't know, I don't thinkthe bible supports this?
Probably not.
Which comes back around againI'm still a scriptura guy.
I am not a church.
Tradition is equal to theauthority of scripture guy.
Speaker 1 (48:32):
How do you feel about ?
Because, okay, in my opinion, akey indication that a large
religion is a cult yeah, bearwith me here, all right.
Before we started this, Johncame to me and said I want to be
very careful when we have thisconversation.
(48:54):
Yeah, that something thatclaims to be a religion is
actually a cult is that you havea human figurehead that leads,
not as a teacher, but as a headof that.
I am your one, that has allyour information.
(49:16):
I am, you know.
A lot of times, cult leaderswill say I am God that kind of
nonsense.
But it's typically a humanholding the secret truths and
you have to go to them to haveand get the knowledge.
A good example is Scientology.
(49:37):
It's all behind a paywall, allthe secret knowledge that they
have for your salvation, andwhat they believe is behind
tiers that you allow, that youpay into.
Speaker 2 (49:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:52):
And it's millions before you are given the full
story of what they're supposedto believe.
Speaker 2 (49:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (50:15):
Like the Freemasons and Shriners and all the other
crazy ones.
But it's, why are we havingthese huge weekly long to do's
just to vote somebody in and upthere and he's kind of
worshipped and bowed down andidolized, yeah, and oh, he has
his.
What he interprets, that's whatwe have to believe, you know,
(50:38):
yeah, and so it's somebody andthey kind of hold that knowledge
and you have to be in thechurch to gain that knowledge
and it's not free, yeah, one wayor another.
So I kind of I can see wherepeople could say that
catholicism is a cult yeah, Imean what the more.
Speaker 2 (50:55):
the most recent one is.
I can't remember what he callsit, but the madi guy.
His videos are popping up onsocial media.
It's the one I showed you.
Yeah, black beanie.
Yeah, he's got like a dark room.
It cannot scream Antichristmore than what he's.
I mean him, all of hisfollowers, they all dress in
black.
They're all wearing black.
(51:17):
Their room is dimly lit, likeit's just bizarre, but they're
arguing that he's not theantichrist, he's pro christ and
he's the only true messenger ofgod again on earth right now
that's a cultic to me.
Um, yeah, the catholic church,the.
(51:38):
I mean I understand the logicthat they use to get to the
validity of the Pope.
I just disagree with it.
I don't think that thescripture supports it and, to my
understanding, theirfoundational text is when Christ
(52:02):
is talking to peter about thechurch and he says you are peter
, which you know in the originalgreek it's you are a little
rock, and on this rock I willbuild my church.
And so the argument is okay,what's this rock that Christ is
(52:22):
talking about?
Is he talking about what Peterrevealed, which is that Christ
is the Messiah, christ is theLord, he is the one who holds
the truth of salvation in God?
Or is the rock Peter and thechurch is built upon Peter, and
so the Catholics would hold tothat that Peter is the rock that
(52:44):
the church is built upon andthere has to be that pinnacle
guy that holds up the church andstands in for Christ on the
earth side of the religion.
So that's where the apostolicsuccession comes from.
Is there always has to be aPeter in line to be the rock
(53:07):
that the church is built on?
So yeah, I understand the logic, but I disagree with it.
I don't think that thatscripture?
I don't think that's what thatscripture is saying, right?
So, and once again we come backaround to it, I am solo
scriptor, but Catholics arechurch tradition and scripture.
(53:30):
So every argument cannot beresolved because at the base of
it.
Speaker 1 (53:40):
Foundationally, it's foundationally different.
Speaker 2 (53:44):
You hold to an authority that I do not hold to,
and so we can't come to a placewhere the authority will agree,
because you will reference toan authority that I don't
acknowledge.
Or the Catholics.
I should say, the Catholicshold to an authority that I, as
a prophet, do not.
You, you listener, you listener, mr a prophet, do not, no, you,
(54:04):
you listener.
You listener, mr Gene, I'mtalking to you, I'm just kidding
.
Gene's not a Catholic, oh, buthe makes some pretty awesome
Lego builds.
Yeah, there you go, there yougo.
Speaker 1 (54:19):
Way to go, gene.
Way to go, gene.
So do you have anything else tosay before?
Way to go, gene.
Way to go, gene.
So do you have anything else tosay before?
I have one little.
It's not really like a corneror anything, but a quick little
fun little thing.
Let's do it All right.
So in my research I've comeacross I don't know how true the
(54:40):
story is, but it is supposedlykind of like a legend of sorts.
So, according to medievallegend, pope joan was a woman
who disguised herself as a manand rose to the ranks of the
church, becoming popeinteresting said to have been
exposed after giving birthduring a procession.
What oh?
So?
(55:00):
Not only is she.
Hey, pope, pope, you're gettinga little fat there.
No big deal, it's just a littlegain in weight.
Speaker 2 (55:10):
But she also wasn't practicing celibacy either.
Speaker 1 (55:14):
Right right.
That's why it's more thanlikely a legend.
But you know, there's nohistorical evidence that
supports the story.
Most scholars agree it's just amyth.
It's just a fun little bedtimestory.
But it's just kind of funny tothink about how the Pope is up
there, quote unquote.
Pope is up there telling herstories and then just her water
(55:36):
breaks.
Oh, the Pope peed himself, yeah.
Speaker 2 (55:42):
That's funny, I just looked it up right himself.
Yeah, that's funny, I justlooked it up right now.
Yeah, if it happened, I thinkit was happening during the Dark
Ages, so could have gotten awaywith it.
Speaker 1 (55:58):
So it's kind of funny .
Have you ever heard about?
Speaker 2 (56:00):
that theory that there's a thousand years missing
from history because, likeduring the dark ages, nobody
knows what happened in europe.
Speaker 1 (56:16):
Is that why we had to start over at zero?
We lost so much time.
Speaker 2 (56:19):
No, no, I'm kidding, we had to start over, no, but
like when the Renaissancestarted happening, that's when
they started getting back intothe sciences or that's when they
started, you know, reallyexploring sciences and coming to
the mind of science.
Yeah, yeah, which funny truthhere, if you will.
(56:41):
Truth here, if you will.
Every groundbreaking scientistthroughout history up until the
1800s has been a christian guy,for the most part, I mean.
There are some that maybe not,but a lot of them.
It was through their faith thatthey explored and pushed the
boundaries of science.
And here we are today, and thebiggest thing with atheists is
(57:03):
like no, we believe in science,not God.
It's like okay, well, most ofthe guys that you hold to as
like brilliant men are Christian.
They believe in God.
So what do you do?
But anyways, yeah, that'sinteresting and yeah, that
popped in my head, I don'tbelieve it.
I think that there'sdocumentation during the dark
ages, because we've got otherparts of the world, you know,
(57:26):
like middle east, china, japan,like they're all documenting
their history, the mayans, theaztecs, like everybody's
documenting their history.
It's just in europe they don'tdocument it for however long,
and so they're like there's athousand, there's actually a
thousand years mystery missingfrom our history so I mean last
week.
Speaker 1 (57:46):
In last week's episode we in one piece we
talked about how in that lorethere's a hundred years and
we're sitting there thinkinglike a hundred years is a long
time yeah, I'd be missinghistory and we're sitting there
thinking about 10 times as muchas that.
Yeah, that could be possiblyreal could be.
Speaker 2 (58:00):
I don't think it is and it maybe I did get it wrong.
Maybe it's a shorter span oftime, but, like people say, like
no, it's actually 3000.
Yeah, it's 3000 years.
No, but there is a camp outthere that believes that the
earth is older than what ourcalendars say, and the reason is
because we lost time and wedon't know what happened.
Speaker 1 (58:22):
So whatever you know Whatever, there you go, it's
whatever.
So good episode, hey, goodepisode of you, thank you.
Speaker 2 (58:34):
You got it.
Speaker 1 (58:35):
So what's the moral lesson at the end here?
What's the final thoughts fromJohn?
Speaker 2 (58:41):
Christ is Lord Jesus.
Yeah, my final thoughts fromJohn Christ is Lord Jesus yeah
my final thoughts are Jesus Ithink I would end on that
statement is you can be afollower of Christ and Catholic.
You can be a Protestant and bea follower of Christ, because
salvation comes through Christ,because salvation comes through
(59:02):
Christ and it's by Christ thatwe are saved and it's by our
faith in Christ that we arejustified in salvation.
So it does not matter what campyou're a part of, it matters
who you put your faith in.
So if you can agree on that,then you can work together to
(59:23):
further the gospel.
So that would be my closingthing is that Christ has to be
your salvation, nothing else.
If Christ is your soulsalvation and you profess that,
it doesn't matter if you'reCatholic or if you're Anglican
or if you're a Baptist orPresbyterian.
You know you just got to holdto that truth and believe in the
(59:49):
commands of Christ and theteachings of Christ, because if
you believe in Christ, you'reborn again.
When you're born again, you wantto live in the life that God
has set for you.
The laws of God's kingdom.
Abide in those.
Why would you want to abide?
The laws of God's kingdom?
Abide in those.
Why would you want to abide inthe laws of a dead kingdom,
which is what the earth is.
The earth is dying and theearth is dead because everyone
(01:00:14):
who is born into the world isborn into death, and that's why
we need Christ.
Christ is the light and the lifeof mankind in John, chapter 1.
And so when we believe inChrist, christ says in the third
chapter of John, you must beborn again to be saved.
(01:00:37):
And so being born again is yoursoul is being rebirthed into
the kingdom of God as a child ofGod.
And now you are growing andmaturing and living as a child
of God, no longer as a dead manin the dead kingdom of Satan.
And so when we live in this newkingdom of Christ, we have to
(01:01:01):
practice the sanctification ofovercoming sin and saying no to
the world and saying yes toJesus.
And when we step into eternitywith God, we see the labor, we
see the fruits from our laborsand we get to finally step into
the presence of the almighty God, like physically.
(01:01:21):
That's what I'm most excitedfor.
I know this is supposed to be aclosing statement and I keep on
rambling on, but it's making methink about dude.
Like the love of God is sogreat that he made a way for us
to be able to enter into hispresence, because that's what he
wants.
He is the way, the truth.
And the life yeah there you go,and but that's what, like God
(01:01:46):
didn't need to send Jesus.
God was not required to savemankind from sin.
He wanted to because he wantedus to be in communion with him
and be in his presence.
He wanted that, and so he madea way for us to be forgiven, he
made a way for us to be adoptedas children and he made a way
(01:02:08):
for us to enter into hispresence.
It's crazy To me that shows thelove.
God does all the work solely toget his creation back into his
presence.
Amazing, amazing.
So yeah, those are my closingstatements Perfect.
Speaker 1 (01:02:23):
So with that, we're now going to transition, tyler,
this is your transition into theend of the episode.
Christ is Lord and the kingdomis now.
Speaker 2 (01:02:32):
We are the saints that serve.
I was like no, he's got anotherhalf hour.
(01:03:00):
What are we going to do?
Speaker 1 (01:03:02):
Tricked you.
I wasn't prepared.
What else are we going to talkabout?
Welcome to the Saints that Serve, podcast where, each
week, your hosts dive into thecrossroads of faith, culture and
the unknown.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Christ is Lord and the kingdom is now.
We are the Saints that Serve.
Hey everybody, welcome to theSaints that Serve podcast.
(00:41):
That's the Saints that Servepodcast.
Ooh, mamacita, ring the bell.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
What?
Hey, hey, calm down.
Sacred Demile was two episodesago.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
No, you know, Lava La-la-la-lava, ch-ch-ch-chicken.
Oh yeah, yeah, from theMinecraft movie, yeah, which our
review is coming soon.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Yes, tune in in a future date to listen to our
review of the Minecraft movie,which we've only watched once.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
We only have watched once, because it's in theaters
and you'll have to tune in tofind out.
I almost said what I thoughtabout it, but I guess it's not
in theaters anymore now, right,yeah, we happened to catch it on
the last day it was showing.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
And our reason was we didn't want to risk getting
caught up in some sort ofmadness Okay, yeah, we can talk
about the chicken jockeynonsense, okay, not necessarily
our feelings about it in theactual movie, but everyone was
very good about posting online.
How crazy people got in themovie theaters about the chicken
(01:48):
jockey scene, mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Which everything all the videos I saw were, you know.
So a chicken jockey shows up.
Jack Black's character sayschicken jockey, yeah.
And somehow or another thatcorrelated to everybody going
berserk in the theater throwingtheir popcorn and stealing the
fire extinguishers and shootingthe fire extinguishers off and
(02:13):
all this nonsense.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
I saw a video where people had brought fireworks
into the movie.
It's ridiculous.
And set fireworks off.
It got crazy.
So we waited to the very end togo see it.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
For all that and I'll be- honest, that moment in the
movie is not that major of alike hype moment.
It's just Jack Black sayschicken jockey and then the
fight keeps going.
Like it's not that big of amoment.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Yeah, we're going to save all of our thoughts for
when we do the review, becausewe don't want to.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
I'm just saying it's just like it's's.
It was so weird that we wentand saw that, yeah, on that date
, to avoid the crowd of childrengoing berserk in the theaters.
And it didn't happen for us,luckily.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Yeah, but then we saw the scene that everyone was
going crazy for and we were likewhat?
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Yeah, like why is?
What is?
What is this that shows our age?
Juras that shows our age, butalso, I'll be honest, that was
not the most quotable moment tome in the movie at all.
There's so many better quotes.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
That's my point is there's a disconnect between us
and the younger generation.
You're right about that, andnow we're like I don't get it.
Dude, I remember all the timegrowing up when it was like, oh,
doing the funny thing or thecool thing or the relatable
thing with your friends and yourparents are like that's stupid,
what are you doing?
Speaker 1 (03:35):
Right, but also, at the same time, none of our like
trying to be cool.
Stupid things was everdestructive.
Stupid things was everdestructive, I know.
But I mean, yeah, all right,we'll save it for when we do the
review.
Yeah, I don't again that.
I don't think that reveals ourfeelings on the movie at all.
No, no, no, just our feelingson a really stupid trend.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Yeah, I have several things to say that revolve
around it, but I want to save itfor the content of the review.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
Yeah, so stay tuned for that.
Yeah, but you know we're nottalking about chicken jockeys on
this episode.
No, we're talking about butwe're talking about our
announcements.
Do we have any before we getinto the main topic?
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Just if you need prayer, you can email us at
saints that serve at gmailcom,or you can click the link at the
bottom of the description forthis show and it'll take you to
a sms messaging page and you cantext us your prayer request
also.
We are doing another livestream worship the first friday.
(04:37):
I believe it's the sixth juneyeah, june here I am being unpre
, not having the calendar.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
I only know because it's the day after the Switch 2
comes out.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Oh, there you go.
Yeah, so June 6th we'll bedoing another online live stream
worship night, and then we weregoing to be doing an inductive
study course in the month ofJune.
I think we're going to push itout one more month and it'll be
in July.
Okay, so just stay tuned forupdates on that, but right now
(05:07):
it's just if you need prayerreach out and if you're
interested in the inductiveBible study course, reach out.
Yeah, reach out, and we'll letyou know when it's coming your
way.
And then, yeah, live streamworship and we'll have more info
on our actual sister channel.
That's coming out.
Oh, it, actual sister channelthat's coming out.
Oh it's already out.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
The Saints that Play.
I mean, the channel exists,there's just no content on it,
no new content.
Okay, so it's an old streamingchannel that's been converted
into a new streaming channel forour brand now, so it's the
Saints that Play.
It used to be Regal Games, yeah, so all the Regal Games content
is on there, so you can go.
(05:45):
It's weird.
It's so weird.
If you go to saints that play,you can watch the regal games
content.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Yeah, and it's us.
I mean it's us playing games,but uh, yeah, jairus is heading
that up and he'll have more infofor when that's actually
dropping, so just stay tunedcheck out our socials.
The plan still is sometime inJune and you can actually go
ahead and subscribe to theSaints that Play right now on
(06:13):
Facebook and Instagram andYouTube.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
It's on there as the Saints that Play, so if you want
to subscribe to that, thenyou'll be able to get updates
for when we're launching and allthat stuff and then you'll be
able to get updates for whenwe're launching and all that
stuff, and so that content willbe releasing, being mindful of
the saints that serve as wellwhen the podcast content come
out, so you'll be always gettingsaints content.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Correct.
Yeah, and when we play it's allkinds of stuff.
It's Minecraft, it's firstperson shooters kinds of stuff.
It's minecraft, it's firstperson shooters, it's I think
you played stardew valley withstardew valley with janelle one
time, so all kinds of stuff Ithink we're gonna.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
I think it'll be very diverse in what we play,
because it's not really aboutwhat we're playing as much as
it's just entertainingentertaining, yeah.
So because there's nights thatwe will have just me playing,
we'll have you as guest.
Ashley is a guest, janelle willbe guest on that.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
It just will be really varied depending on what
we feel like playing that timeSure thing.
So tune in and enjoy that whenit happens.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
When it happens.
Yep, that's all theannouncements we got.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
That's right, and you know what that means.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
It's time for our transition, Tyler, into our main
topic.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
So, Tyler, this is your transition.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Into the main topic for episode 36, which is the
Catholic Church.
The Catholic Church yeah, ithas been weeks since the Pope
was elected.
The new Pope.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
So peek behind the curtain.
It's only been a couple of dayssince we've been recording, but
the way that we are releasingthis is going to be a couple
weeks.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Jairus is leaving me with his wife for France for a
week.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
We are going on vacation, so we're pre-recording
episodes way in advance.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
He's abandoning me for Europe and that's how it is.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
I talked to my wife and I said what do you want to
get?
Do you want to exchange giftsfor our one-year anniversary?
She was like I want anauthentic baguette.
No, she said, I want Europe,europe.
So we are prepping for this.
So if some information in thisepisode is out of date or
(08:30):
anything like that, blame timeyeah, keeper of us all.
But yeah, we have a.
Well, there is.
I almost said we have a newPope, but there is a new Pope.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
There is a new Pope, and his name is not Peter.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
So the End of the world is not happening?
Yeah, the Do you want toexplain?
Speaker 2 (08:51):
that it's called the Prophecy of Popes, and it's
basically this guy.
I don't even remember what timeframe it was, but he predicted
a lot of the popes that cameinto succession and he predicted
that, basically, pope francis,there'd be one more after him
(09:13):
and then that would be the endof the catholic church, but the
final pope would be named peter.
So this is the pope after popefrancis, and his name's not
peter.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
So it's an american man yeah, born in chicago, born
in chicago.
Um, his name is robert, right.
Well, now it's leo, right?
So his pope name is leo, yeah,but his name is robert something
, if I'm not mistaken.
Oh yeah, so I guess they canjust change the name and not in
(09:45):
the world yeah, I didn't, well,it's, it's.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
It's a normal practice for the pope to take on
whenever he becomes the pope,to take on another name, because
that's I.
I think that well, I could betotally misspeaking here, but
because when Peter, when Christcalled Peter, you know your name
(10:09):
is Peter, his name was Simon,but Christ gave him a name of
Peter into ministry and theCatholics.
Well, I guess he was at onepoint Peter was the Bishop of
Rome, so they hold that.
You know he's the head of thechurch on earth.
Christ designated Peter as thehead of the church.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
It is Robert Francis Prevost, the new Pope Leo XIV.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
And before he was a Cardinal at the vatican.
He served for 40 years in southamerica, in peru.
So you know he's born inchicago but it's been most of
his life in peru so he'samerican born but really hasn't
lived a whole lot in america.
(11:02):
I mean in comparison to time?
Yeah, Because I mean heprobably moved and started doing
when he was old enough to go asan adult to Peru.
But yeah, he grew up in Chicago.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
What is the rules of becoming the Pope?
Do you just need to serve inthe Catholic Church for a
certain amount of time?
Speaker 2 (11:32):
The only ones that I know of right now is that you
have to be a part of the Collegeof Cardinals and you have to be
under 85.
So if you're 85 or older, youcannot serve as the Pope.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
And then you're the Pope until you die right, or you
step down.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Yeah, yeah, but they started doing I can't remember
what they call it when all thecardinals come together to
determine who the next Pope isgoing to be.
It's like the conclave, maybeit's the conclave of the
cardinals.
Anyways, they all go get lockedin a room until they determine
(12:10):
who the next pope is, and then,apparently there's a tradition
with smoke.
If black smoke comes out of thechimney, there's some sort of
issue that's causing them tocontinue on and they have not
elected a pope yet.
But if white smoke comes out ofthe chimney, to continue on and
they have not elected a popeyet.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
But if white smoke comes out of the chimney, it
means that they have elected apope, so you're telling me that
they can't stick their head outthe door and be like not yet no,
because you got to remember.
The catholic church is allabout tradition and you know
tradition, and what am I tryingto say?
I don't know.
Yeah, I know I'm awful at thistradition and just being to a t
(12:52):
meticulous well, it's traditionsand mechanical to a t the I
need a thesaurus, are youtalking?
about like performance.
It's kind of like a performance, yeah, like it's to a T, the
you know meticulous performanceof it all and tradition and all
(13:15):
that stuff behind it they areheavy on traditions and the
practice of traditions.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
And yeah, practice of traditions, and yeah, they do.
The pageantry is also there too, so not letting any room for
God to lead.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Whoa Got him now Hot take.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
Anyways, do you want to?
What do you want to talk aboutwhen it comes to the Catholics?
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Well, let's kind of get a little bit of a comparison
here, okay, between.
So this when I say ChristianityI mean you say Christ,
christianity, christ,christianity, christ.
When I say Christianity I meanlike the more American view on a
(14:05):
church, western, protestant.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
So it's Christianity versus Catholicism.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Okay, and so which, just so everybody knows, I
believe that there are Catholicsthat are Christians that do
believe in Christ as theirsavior and follow him.
So it's.
I do not fall in the camp ofsaying that Catholicism is
(14:33):
anti-Christ.
I just disagree with theirdoctrines, a lot of the
doctrines that they hold as achurch.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
And when I was doing my research and kind of reading
into it, I was kind of moreleaning towards of a hundred
percent wrong, because I didn'tknow as much as I do now.
Yeah, in that sense of you know, like you said, it's really
more of some of the things thatthey, it's their church
(15:02):
traditions, not their.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Yeah, yeah, and like what they,how they do church is kind of
how I disagree with it.
Sure, but their beliefs are nottoo far off from christianity.
And again, when I saychristianity, I mean protestant,
thank you, there you, I meanProtestant, thank you, there you
(15:23):
go.
Yeah, so Christianity,protestants, is a monotheistic
religion centered on the life,death and resurrection of Jesus
Christ.
Yep, all Christians believeJesus is the Son of God and the
Savior of humanity.
Correct, there you go.
Now.
Catholicism traces its rootsback to Jesus' apostles,
(15:43):
especially Peter, which I justneed to interject here real
quick.
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
So does every denomination Sure, just so we're
clear.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
But claims an unbroken line of apostolic
succession through popes andbishops.
Okay, catholic means universal.
It aims to be the global church.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Yeah, the word Catholic means universal, so the
Catholic Church is theuniversal church.
Right Is the understanding ofit and that was the idea behind
it.
But just so everybody knows,christianity was illegal in the
Roman Empire until the Edict ofMilan by Emperor Constantine I
(16:34):
in 313 AD.
So up until 313 AD there werechurches and they had bishops,
overseers and deacons, but theywere all kind of their own deals
in their own cities and therewasn't like unity in the sense
(16:55):
that what the Catholics pushedto say like hey, we are the
universal church and all thechurches come together as one
unified body of Christ.
That wasn't happening until theCouncil of Nicaea, which
happened in 325.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
AD.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
So the Roman Catholics will say that they
date their papacy back to Peterat the beginning of the church,
which possibly.
But the idea of the Catholicchurch wasn't legitimate until
at least 325 AD, whenConstantine called the Council
(17:38):
of Nicaea and brought togetherall the bishops from the
different cities, all the let meclarify that all of the Gentile
bishops from the differentcities brought them all together
so they could all agree ondoctrine and get streamlined, or
unified, if you will.
So it seems like the idea of aunified church didn't really
(18:05):
happen in the sense ofleadership, hierarchical
leadership, didn't really happenuntil 325 AD at the earliest.
And then the Edict ofThessalonica by Emperor
Theodosius I happened in 380.
(18:28):
And the Edict of Thessalonicamade Christianity the main
religion of the Roman Empire.
So or the state religion, ifyou will, or the state religion,
if you will.
So it did away with pantheonismand the Roman gods and stuff
and converted to Christianity asan empire.
(18:50):
So that's when we start to seethe idea of the pope and papacy
and the different bishops fromdifferent cities coming together
and appointing a leader tooversee all the different cities
and stuff.
(19:10):
But yeah, you know the Bible.
There would be argument to saythat there is a hierarchy or
first among equals, if you will,in the book of Acts and some of
Paul's epistles kind of supportthis where it seems like the
church in Jerusalem, theChristian church in Jerusalem,
(19:30):
holds honor and respect amongother churches because it's the
first church, I guess, inChristianity.
And then Paul points out or Iguess technically Luke points
out in the book of Acts that itseems that James, the brother of
(19:52):
Jesus, is held in honor amongall of the leaders at the church
in Jerusalem.
So that would be Peter, thatwould be John, that would be
Andrew, all the differentapostles that are still alive
(20:15):
during that meeting.
So you could kind of say thatwhere you know the unification
in some regards would be,everyone respects the church in
Jerusalem because it's the firstone and it would seem that the
leader or the first among equalsguy or bishop over the first
church in Jerusalem is James,the brother of Christ.
(20:37):
So which I don't know whatCatholics do with that.
I don't know if theyacknowledge that James and Jude
are Christ's brothers, jude,yeah.
Because the Bible mentions them.
But the Catholics also say thatMary is a virgin.
(20:58):
She only had Christ throughimmaculate conception.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
That would kind of throw a wrench into her, which,
to my understanding, they viewher as the Virgin Mary, like
you're saying, but perpetuallythe Virgin Mary.
So they probably don'tacknowledge that Jesus had
siblings.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
Yeah, the idea is that she didn't have other
children, so Joseph would havehad to have had those children
via another mother, which iscrazy because—.
Which would not make them thebrothers and sisters of Christ,
right?
So which?
(21:36):
The Bible doesn't say that.
But this is where I think thebiggest difference between
Protestant and Catholics isProtestants.
We hold to sola scriptura,which is God's word alone, or
(22:06):
the greatest Bible, or God'sword and church tradition hold
equal authority and there's anargument to be made.
I heard one guy make anargument that how do you get the
validity of the Bible being theauthority of God without it
being compiled?
And who's the authority thatcompiles it?
(22:26):
It's the church.
So you know, I could look atthat as an argument.
But at the same time, if it'sGod's word and God's going to
preserve it, he'll preserve itin any way that he sees fit to
do so.
So you know, just because wecan date the means of which he
preserves his word and thelocation and all the people over
(22:49):
there doesn't necessarily meanthat like they had greater
authority than the Bible orequal authority to the Bible.
It just means that God usedthem to preserve his scripture.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
Preserve his scripture, you know something
that I think is major differencebetween the two is that you
know and you'll have to help mebecause I'm struggling with the
word yeah, so Christianity, alsoknown as Protestants, thank you
, they have.
It's a lot of small communities, a lot of small churches
(23:24):
running independently.
Or maybe you know a church thatopens up a few different
locations locally, but they'reall ran, but it's like maybe at
most five churches all ranwithin the same community type
thing.
Sure, where the Catholic churchis ran through the authority of
(23:47):
the head church right.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
Yes, they get there.
The authority goes upwards andat the pinnacle of it is the
Pope Right.
Yeah, so he passes.
You know there is the court ofcardinals that handle
legislation and stuff within thechurch, but ultimately the
final decision is always made bythe Pope and he decrees what
will happen and all of thatRight, and that's something I
(24:15):
personally, though I don'treally agree with.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
How, again, what they believe not so much, but the
way that they run the church iswhere I disagree with.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
Oh, I disagree with some of the stuff that they
believe in.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
I mean, but majority how they run it?
Yeah, but I do like the idea ofchurches locally being held
accountable to something.
Yeah, I do like that.
There is a hierarchy in thesense, not in the sense that
they have a man figurehead, sure, but that they have, like you
(24:47):
said, the cardinal of bishops.
I like the idea behind that andI kind of wish we were more in
unity as the church.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Sure, I think that's probably one of the crazy things
about the Protestant movementis because it started with that
point of you know, we want toreform back to what God's word
says, so we do that, and thenthere'll be disagreement.
(25:20):
Well, okay, hold on.
Well okay, hold on.
The church, regardless of whattime, has always had issues with
disagreement of Scripture,interpretation of Scripture,
which causes a divide, right?
So because we've got an exampleof the Eastern Orthodox Church
(25:41):
and the Roman Catholic Church.
They were one church Rightuntil 1054 AD, and this is
called the Great Schism.
This is where the EasternOrthodox Church divides itself
from the Roman Catholic Churchand goes its own way and says we
(26:03):
are no longer one churchanymore because the Orthodoxy
wanted to hold to more traditionand the Catholics were doing
stuff.
So there's a divide there,breaking the idea of the
universal church, because therewas a split.
And then, 500 years later aboutis when Martin Luther, 500
(26:28):
years later, about is whenMartin Luther nailed the 95
Theses on the church door whichstarted the movement of the
Reformation and Protestantmovement, which was in 1517.
So there's another big split.
So you know, the church hasalways been doing throughout
(26:49):
history has been doing that.
It's not like there was a onething in time that caused a
divide.
We've been great about creatingcamps and division.
I think it's important torealize that, like the unity in
(27:11):
Christ is the unity in that inChrist.
Like we set aside ourdifferences and preferences and
hold to the infallible truths ofwho Christ is and the doctrine
of well, I shouldn't saydoctrine, but the truth which is
in the gospel.
So I should be able to lay downmy personal theological
(27:32):
preferences and beliefs, tounify with Catholics and
Orthodoxes and Baptists andLutherans and Anglicans for the
sake of the gospel, to make thegospel known in all the earth.
Like I should be able to workwith people from all
denominations.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
But they typically don't.
If you don't agree with them,they don't want to have anything
to do with you, even though, atits base, we believe the same
thing.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Yeah, kind of there are.
I mean, there's some extremes,Like there are Catholics that
don't believe any Protestant canbe saved because they don't
partake in the CatholicEucharist, which is, you know,
the communion.
We do communion and we do it asa.
What's the term I'm looking for?
(28:24):
It's a discipline, a spiritualdiscipline that we do to
remember Christ's sacrifice forus.
You know, the bread becomes theflesh of Christ.
Symbolic, yeah, for us it'ssymbolic to remember Christ's
(28:44):
body broken for us, and the wineis Christ's blood poured out
for us, and so it's imagery forus to bring us back to
remembrance of Christ'saccomplishments, for us to atone
for our sins.
The Catholics believe that itphysically becomes Christ's
(29:07):
flesh when it enters your mouth.
And physically and they believe, well, no, not when it enters
your mouth they believe it isChrist's flesh and Christ's
blood that you are consuming andyou have to do it to partake in
Christ's crucifixion.
So it's almost like a I can'tsay symbolic because they don't
(29:29):
think it's symbolic.
They think that it is Christbeing crucified Well, not being
crucified, but they believe it'sChrist's atonement happening
every time you take it, so whythe?
cannibalism?
Well, because Christ calls ithis flesh and his blood.
So they just take it in thatsense, in the literal sense of
(29:55):
we are consuming Christ's flesh,we are drinking his blood,
which, ironically, is an issuethat Romans and other
polytheistic cultures had anissue with Christianity.
Some of them thought that theywere a sect of Judaism that was
an occult that would practicecannibalism.
Because the early church usedthat rhetoric of eating Christ's
(30:21):
flesh and drinking Christ'sblood during the time of
communion.
So the irony is there, peopleon the outside were like, oh,
they're cannibals.
And then people inside werelike this is what we do because
Christ told us to.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
And then here we are, and then they see Christ as a
cannibal.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
Not Christ Christians .
Christ didn't eat, as far as weknow, didn't eat his own flesh
and drink his own blood.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
No, but he commanded us to yeah.
He commanded cann.
He commanded us to yeah.
He commanded cannibalism.
Yes, I'm making a very bad joke.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
Yeah, but yeah.
So it is pretty interesting,and I think that the if anyone's
Orthodox or knows more aboutOrthodoxy than me, I think that
the Orthodox have a same samebut different orthodoxy than me.
I think that the orthodox havea same same but different.
So they believe that once thebread enters your mouth, it
(31:16):
becomes Christ's flesh, and onceyou drink the wine, it becomes
Christ's blood once it entersinto you.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
Oh my goodness, like just them sitting there eating,
and they're like oh my goodness,are we all made of bread?
Speaker 2 (31:32):
Yeah.
So yeah it is, it is prettyinteresting.
But you know it's I don't know.
I I have to me those things areI.
They don't make sense to mebecause I don't see them holding
up in scripture make sense tome because I don't see them
(31:53):
holding up in scripture.
And I mean, I'm willing to beproved wrong on that.
But the biggest thing thatCatholics get away with is
because they believe in thatchurch tradition is equal to
scripture and authority.
They don't need to have a Bibleverse to support what they do
because it falls under churchtradition.
So that's where the starkdifference is.
(32:16):
We can't even have an argumentbecause we don't share the same
bedrock foundation with eachother, foundation with each
other.
So if we both believed in soloscriptura, scripture alone, then
(32:38):
we could get into the word andtry and hash out a conclusion.
But because for a lot of thestuff that they practice it's
tradition, not necessarilyscriptural, they can get away
with it.
I shouldn't say get away withit.
They do it and they don't needto bring a counter-argument to
(33:00):
me because this is a part oftheir tradition which is equal
to the authority of Scripture.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
So with solo scriptura, I have some talking
points of what Protestants, whatwe believe, versus what they
believe and, like you said, solaScriptura, which is scripture
alone, individualinterpretations emphasized.
(33:28):
Right, we're able to interpret,but with Catholicism it's
scripture plus traditionauthority, interpreted by the
magistratum Magistratum.
Yes, bishops in communion withthe Pope, having for them it's
somebody else telling you whatthis means and not really having
(33:52):
you know the ability for you tointerpret it and it's tradition
and the problem with that, asalways, is it tradition being
passed down?
Speaker 2 (34:02):
it can be wrong yeah, and that was the big thing with
lutheran is, and he wasn't thefirst one, like like to be clear
.
There were other people inhistory who wanted to translate
the Bible into the common tongue, for whatever region they were
in, so that more people couldread God's word.
(34:23):
Martin Luther just was the onewho was able to do it.
The Catholic Church held atight hold on the Scripture and
keeping it in Latin, becausethey believed it was so sacred
that it had to be read andtranslated by the ordained
(34:46):
officials of the church.
And the commoner or the commonperson wasn't holy enough to
read it or to understand it, sothey needed a teacher to reveal
the truths of god's word to them.
Which what does that sound like?
(35:07):
It sounds like sadducee andPharisee practice of Judaism.
I was going to say a cult.
A cult, no Well, but to me itkind of pulls back into that.
You can't know the meaning ofGod's word.
You have to come before us, thelearned hierarchy, to
(35:28):
understand God's word.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
We know what it says.
We'll tell you what you need toknow.
Yeah exactly, and that kind ofgoes into my other point and
kind of like my problem with it,yeah, is that you have to go to
a earthly person yeah, aearthly person, yeah, earthly
(35:55):
man in a box and talk to them,and then they will bring your
sins to christ you're talkingabout for repentance yes yeah,
which is good in a?
sense, because again it's like,like you're saying, and sorry to
interrupt, you're're good, butit's again it's, they're doing
things almost right.
You know what I mean?
Yeah, holding, we should holdeach other accountable, we
(36:17):
should confess our sins to oneanother, but at the end of the
day, you have to repent becausewe have a direct line to God,
correct, so we, we can talk topeople to help us better and,
you know, get through our sinsto improve and to where we don't
(36:38):
do them.
Again, be held accountable forour actions.
Yeah, but again they kind ofit's.
You have to go to this personwho then goes to God for you
person who then goes to God foryou.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
Yeah, and I think that that's the big thing with
Catholicism in particular isthere, especially now, with
everything that's happened inhistory and to where we're at
this point in the world.
Really, because of theReformation, because of the
Protestants and the movementsand everything, and now anybody
can read God's Word and all ofthat it's gotten to the point to
(37:15):
where they're like, hey, likethese are the truths of the
gospel and these are thepractices of sanctification, and
if you want to do them theright way, you need to go about
it the way that the church hasset them up right.
Most Catholics would encourageyou like, hey, yeah, you can go
(37:36):
to your friends and ask them topray for you and confess your
sins to them and stuff.
But if you're going to be apart of the church, like be a
part of the program for thechurch, which is, you know,
repent to your local shepherd,come to mass, come to
confessional, you know all thatstuff.
(37:56):
So you know, I don'tnecessarily have an issue with
that, but as long as it's nottaking the place, as long as
you're not making that like theordination, like God ordained it
to be that particular way andno other way works for
repentance, then I don't know,because the Bible makes the
(38:19):
point repent of your sins to oneanother and pray for one
another and build one another upin the faith.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
So Well another part of it, at least from what I've
seen on television and whatnotit's you confess your sins and
then they tell you what you needto do after that to be forgiven
.
So do 50 Hail Marys andwhatever.
Essentially, the person in thebox has the power and knowledge
(38:47):
to how you are to be forgiven,which?
Speaker 2 (38:52):
I believe is passed down from the papacy.
So they're relaying theinformation of like, hey, this
is your sin.
This is what the church holdsas tradition for you to do to
practice repentance.
So you've repented, you've beenforgiven of sin, you've been
redeemed through christ.
But now, after repentance,depending on what sin it was,
(39:15):
there's some penance that goesinto it and they give you the
different things.
It's a, it's a spiritualpractice, for sanctification is
how the catholics would view itand for us, you know, obviously
we don, obviously we don't havethings like Hail Marys and
things like that that we do, orrosaries or anything like that
(39:36):
as Protestants.
But another thing that we'renot doing as well is we're not
actually confessing our sins toone another.
You know we'll do a prayer toGod and that's as far as it goes
.
You know there's no union ofthe congregation, of the
community, and that's whatProtestants do awful.
(39:58):
That's what they're awful at iscommunity and coming together
and being unified and repentingof sins to one another and
seeking to abide by theleadership in your community,
because we believe that Godworks through leaders and then
working together to go out andmake the gospel known.
(40:21):
The Catholic Church has apresence in almost the entire
world.
You know and not to say thatProtestants don't but our church
that we go to, we've got sisterchurches in South America and
then there's two in our area andthat's it.
(40:42):
Yeah, and we don't know anybody.
You and I don't know anybodyfrom those churches, I barely
know the people where we gobuilding, because there's two
different services.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
There's two different services.
Speaker 2 (40:52):
I think there's about 400 people that attend at our
church, so like and we don'tknow all of them there's room
for us to be more—there's roomfor more unity, I guess, is what
I'm trying to say.
And the idea of repenting toone another or confessing—sorry,
not repenting confessing oursins to one another, is not
(41:13):
really encouraged, is not reallypromoted and practiced.
You know, we do do confessionalat church, where we have a time
of prayer and an elder willcome up, read some scripture and
then pray with a heart ofrepentance like God forgive us
of these things.
Pray with a heart of repentancelike God forgive us of these
things, but like I'm not goingup to another brother in the
(41:35):
church and saying like, hey, Ineed to confess these things,
and then praying for one another, like that's not happening.
So, if anything, we need to dothat.
Speaker 1 (41:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:44):
You know so yeah.
Do you want to talk about someof the weird stuff in the
Catholic Church?
I thought we already were.
No, I'm kidding.
I'm kidding.
I found out today that there isa chapel for the Holy Mother
Mary and in it is a holy relicfor the Catholic Church.
(42:06):
It is the breast milk of theHoly Virgin Mother.
Speaker 1 (42:12):
Oh, my gosh.
Speaker 2 (42:14):
And the church is set up for women who are trying to
get pregnant.
Speaker 1 (42:18):
They can go to this church and the Holy Mother will
pray for them to become pregnant, and can I say that that is
something that is also odd to me, very odd.
Well, that's very odd, but kindof banking off of, you're
saying the Holy Mary, I mean theHoly Mother, will pray for you,
yeah, yeah.
So that is a weird thing to methat they do, which is they
(42:41):
don't just pray to God, theypray to their saints, who then
will then intercede for them.
So they'll pray to Mary andthen Mary will pray for you, and
that's so odd to me.
Speaker 2 (42:56):
Yeah, you know, I know in Protestant camps we
liken it to polytheism, likeyou're praying to things besides
God and you shouldn't be doingthat.
And then the Catholics willargue we're not praying to them,
we're asking them to pray forus.
Speaker 1 (43:16):
Right, but at the end of the day, are they here, or
are you praying, or are youasking and talking to what you
believe to be a spirit?
Speaker 2 (43:26):
Yeah, and so there are Dude, so much.
But, like, the argument is, thesaints are in heaven looking
down on us cheering us on as werun the race, and so when we get
into that time of prayer and weask the saint of whatever,
(43:48):
whatever, to pray, pray for us,for this, then you know he's
looking down from heaven, orshe's looking down from heaven,
and they hear it and they'relike okay, yeah, we're going to,
we're going to practiceintercessory prayer right now
that the mediator, christ, willbring your case before God.
Speaker 1 (44:04):
Which again is weird, because again it's you, it's
again the.
You don't have a direct line togod.
You have to pray to these otherpeople, who then bring it to
god.
Uh, or confess your sins to anearthly person, who then brings
it to probably somebody else,who then brings it to somebody
else, who then brings it to god,yeah, and so on and so forth,
(44:25):
and it's and I think that thereis that in certain camps of
catholicism but I think there'salso catholics would say no, I
do take this before God as apetition.
Speaker 2 (44:36):
I just try to get backup and help, just like how I
would go and ask hey, I'm goingthrough this right now.
Could you pray for me, like tomy mom or to my friend or
whoever?
I'm also doing it to the saintsin heaven.
I'm asking them to practiceintercessory prayer for me, just
like I would anyone who's aliveright now in my community.
(44:57):
I'm also getting their aid aswell while I bring this before
the Lord.
So you know, it's definitelynot a cut and dry, one size fits
all.
Inside of catholicism there'sdefinitely camps, and so which
also there's camps of.
Speaker 1 (45:16):
I mean we've talked about it before of what we
disagree within um, within theprotestant church, yeah, or
protestant movement, right, uh,yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:26):
But yeah, dude, when I was here I heard that today,
the breast milk, the Holy MotherMary, do you have to keep
bringing it up?
And if you're Catholic, well,but if you're Catholic, that
means that when Christ wasnursing as a baby, or right when
he was about to finish nursingas a baby, Mary had the idea,
(45:46):
mary preserved her milk and thensomehow was able to pass it on
for 300 years or 400 years tothe establishment of the Roman
church.
And so, like what Like?
(46:07):
How did that, how was that?
Speaker 1 (46:10):
it is.
It's so weird and it's kind ofuh, idol worship, if you ask me
well, yeah, that that's where Iget into.
Speaker 2 (46:16):
that's where we get into the weeds of idolatry,
because there is imagery of whatthe patron saint of whatever
looks like and they've got thissacred thing that's from them,
and because they're consideredholy by church tradition.
The object is holy.
Speaker 1 (46:35):
Right, like you said, they have their sacred relics
and this, again, it all comesfrom human people, you know,
yeah, and again it all comesfrom human people, you know, it
all comes from earthly people,not something that you know yeah
, we have, you know the TenCommandments, but that's
something that you know likedirectly was touched by God.
(46:59):
I mean that is a sacred object,but it makes sense to me
because that is something fromheaven touched by God.
Speaker 2 (47:07):
Yeah, and I mean there's things like, you know,
the shroud of Christ, his burialshroud, like the I know what
you're talking about.
The Catholics claim to havethat, which you know.
I could consider that a holyrelic because it was on Christ's
face, right.
That one, yeah, I could agreewith.
There's different things likethat which you know.
I could consider that a holyrelic because it was on Christ's
face, right, you know.
And that one, yeah, I couldagree with.
There's different things likethat.
(47:28):
But like there's so many holyrelics that they have that they
they put a special significanceto, I mean, like there's there I
can I can't remember what saintit is, but they have a
preserved head of a saint as aholy relic.
It's like, why would you dothat?
(47:49):
Yeah, what is the need of that?
What is the point?
Yeah, and it's because thatsaint did something crazy
awesome.
That was a miracle that theypreserved his head so that it
could be used for for whatever.
So that's where I, when we getinto catholicism, that's where
(48:10):
it gets weird for me, is when wetalk about holy relics, right,
and some of the, some of therelics that they have, and it's
like I don't know, I don't thinkthe bible supports this?
Probably not.
Which comes back around againI'm still a scriptura guy.
I am not a church.
Tradition is equal to theauthority of scripture guy.
Speaker 1 (48:32):
How do you feel about ?
Because, okay, in my opinion, akey indication that a large
religion is a cult yeah, bearwith me here, all right.
Before we started this, Johncame to me and said I want to be
very careful when we have thisconversation.
(48:54):
Yeah, that something thatclaims to be a religion is
actually a cult is that you havea human figurehead that leads,
not as a teacher, but as a headof that.
I am your one, that has allyour information.
(49:16):
I am, you know.
A lot of times, cult leaderswill say I am God that kind of
nonsense.
But it's typically a humanholding the secret truths and
you have to go to them to haveand get the knowledge.
A good example is Scientology.
(49:37):
It's all behind a paywall, allthe secret knowledge that they
have for your salvation, andwhat they believe is behind
tiers that you allow, that youpay into.
Speaker 2 (49:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:52):
And it's millions before you are given the full
story of what they're supposedto believe.
Speaker 2 (49:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (50:15):
Like the Freemasons and Shriners and all the other
crazy ones.
But it's, why are we havingthese huge weekly long to do's
just to vote somebody in and upthere and he's kind of
worshipped and bowed down andidolized, yeah, and oh, he has
his.
What he interprets, that's whatwe have to believe, you know,
(50:38):
yeah, and so it's somebody andthey kind of hold that knowledge
and you have to be in thechurch to gain that knowledge
and it's not free, yeah, one wayor another.
So I kind of I can see wherepeople could say that
catholicism is a cult yeah, Imean what the more.
Speaker 2 (50:55):
the most recent one is.
I can't remember what he callsit, but the madi guy.
His videos are popping up onsocial media.
It's the one I showed you.
Yeah, black beanie.
Yeah, he's got like a dark room.
It cannot scream Antichristmore than what he's.
I mean him, all of hisfollowers, they all dress in
black.
They're all wearing black.
(51:17):
Their room is dimly lit, likeit's just bizarre, but they're
arguing that he's not theantichrist, he's pro christ and
he's the only true messenger ofgod again on earth right now
that's a cultic to me.
Um, yeah, the catholic church,the.
(51:38):
I mean I understand the logicthat they use to get to the
validity of the Pope.
I just disagree with it.
I don't think that thescripture supports it and, to my
understanding, theirfoundational text is when Christ
(52:02):
is talking to peter about thechurch and he says you are peter
, which you know in the originalgreek it's you are a little
rock, and on this rock I willbuild my church.
And so the argument is okay,what's this rock that Christ is
(52:22):
talking about?
Is he talking about what Peterrevealed, which is that Christ
is the Messiah, christ is theLord, he is the one who holds
the truth of salvation in God?
Or is the rock Peter and thechurch is built upon Peter, and
so the Catholics would hold tothat that Peter is the rock that
(52:44):
the church is built upon andthere has to be that pinnacle
guy that holds up the church andstands in for Christ on the
earth side of the religion.
So that's where the apostolicsuccession comes from.
Is there always has to be aPeter in line to be the rock
(53:07):
that the church is built on?
So yeah, I understand the logic, but I disagree with it.
I don't think that thatscripture?
I don't think that's what thatscripture is saying, right?
So, and once again we come backaround to it, I am solo
scriptor, but Catholics arechurch tradition and scripture.
(53:30):
So every argument cannot beresolved because at the base of
it.
Speaker 1 (53:40):
Foundationally, it's foundationally different.
Speaker 2 (53:44):
You hold to an authority that I do not hold to,
and so we can't come to a placewhere the authority will agree,
because you will reference toan authority that I don't
acknowledge.
Or the Catholics.
I should say, the Catholicshold to an authority that I, as
a prophet, do not.
You, you listener, you listener, mr a prophet, do not, no, you,
(54:04):
you listener.
You listener, mr Gene, I'mtalking to you, I'm just kidding
.
Gene's not a Catholic, oh, buthe makes some pretty awesome
Lego builds.
Yeah, there you go, there yougo.
Speaker 1 (54:19):
Way to go, gene.
Way to go, gene.
So do you have anything else tosay before?
Way to go, gene.
Way to go, gene.
So do you have anything else tosay before?
I have one little.
It's not really like a corneror anything, but a quick little
fun little thing.
Let's do it All right.
So in my research I've comeacross I don't know how true the
(54:40):
story is, but it is supposedlykind of like a legend of sorts.
So, according to medievallegend, pope joan was a woman
who disguised herself as a manand rose to the ranks of the
church, becoming popeinteresting said to have been
exposed after giving birthduring a procession.
What oh?
So?
(55:00):
Not only is she.
Hey, pope, pope, you're gettinga little fat there.
No big deal, it's just a littlegain in weight.
Speaker 2 (55:10):
But she also wasn't practicing celibacy either.
Speaker 1 (55:14):
Right right.
That's why it's more thanlikely a legend.
But you know, there's nohistorical evidence that
supports the story.
Most scholars agree it's just amyth.
It's just a fun little bedtimestory.
But it's just kind of funny tothink about how the Pope is up
there, quote unquote.
Pope is up there telling herstories and then just her water
(55:36):
breaks.
Oh, the Pope peed himself, yeah.
Speaker 2 (55:42):
That's funny, I just looked it up right himself.
Yeah, that's funny, I justlooked it up right now.
Yeah, if it happened, I thinkit was happening during the Dark
Ages, so could have gotten awaywith it.
Speaker 1 (55:58):
So it's kind of funny .
Have you ever heard about?
Speaker 2 (56:00):
that theory that there's a thousand years missing
from history because, likeduring the dark ages, nobody
knows what happened in europe.
Speaker 1 (56:16):
Is that why we had to start over at zero?
We lost so much time.
Speaker 2 (56:19):
No, no, I'm kidding, we had to start over, no, but
like when the Renaissancestarted happening, that's when
they started getting back intothe sciences or that's when they
started, you know, reallyexploring sciences and coming to
the mind of science.
Yeah, yeah, which funny truthhere, if you will.
(56:41):
Truth here, if you will.
Every groundbreaking scientistthroughout history up until the
1800s has been a christian guy,for the most part, I mean.
There are some that maybe not,but a lot of them.
It was through their faith thatthey explored and pushed the
boundaries of science.
And here we are today, and thebiggest thing with atheists is
(57:03):
like no, we believe in science,not God.
It's like okay, well, most ofthe guys that you hold to as
like brilliant men are Christian.
They believe in God.
So what do you do?
But anyways, yeah, that'sinteresting and yeah, that
popped in my head, I don'tbelieve it.
I think that there'sdocumentation during the dark
ages, because we've got otherparts of the world, you know,
(57:26):
like middle east, china, japan,like they're all documenting
their history, the mayans, theaztecs, like everybody's
documenting their history.
It's just in europe they don'tdocument it for however long,
and so they're like there's athousand, there's actually a
thousand years mystery missingfrom our history so I mean last
week.
Speaker 1 (57:46):
In last week's episode we in one piece we
talked about how in that lorethere's a hundred years and
we're sitting there thinkinglike a hundred years is a long
time yeah, I'd be missinghistory and we're sitting there
thinking about 10 times as muchas that.
Yeah, that could be possiblyreal could be.
Speaker 2 (58:00):
I don't think it is and it maybe I did get it wrong.
Maybe it's a shorter span oftime, but, like people say, like
no, it's actually 3000.
Yeah, it's 3000 years.
No, but there is a camp outthere that believes that the
earth is older than what ourcalendars say, and the reason is
because we lost time and wedon't know what happened.
Speaker 1 (58:22):
So whatever you know Whatever, there you go, it's
whatever.
So good episode, hey, goodepisode of you, thank you.
Speaker 2 (58:34):
You got it.
Speaker 1 (58:35):
So what's the moral lesson at the end here?
What's the final thoughts fromJohn?
Speaker 2 (58:41):
Christ is Lord Jesus.
Yeah, my final thoughts fromJohn Christ is Lord Jesus yeah
my final thoughts are Jesus Ithink I would end on that
statement is you can be afollower of Christ and Catholic.
You can be a Protestant and bea follower of Christ, because
salvation comes through Christ,because salvation comes through
(59:02):
Christ and it's by Christ thatwe are saved and it's by our
faith in Christ that we arejustified in salvation.
So it does not matter what campyou're a part of, it matters
who you put your faith in.
So if you can agree on that,then you can work together to
(59:23):
further the gospel.
So that would be my closingthing is that Christ has to be
your salvation, nothing else.
If Christ is your soulsalvation and you profess that,
it doesn't matter if you'reCatholic or if you're Anglican
or if you're a Baptist orPresbyterian.
You know you just got to holdto that truth and believe in the
(59:49):
commands of Christ and theteachings of Christ, because if
you believe in Christ, you'reborn again.
When you're born again, you wantto live in the life that God
has set for you.
The laws of God's kingdom.
Abide in those.
Why would you want to abide?
The laws of God's kingdom?
Abide in those.
Why would you want to abide inthe laws of a dead kingdom,
which is what the earth is.
The earth is dying and theearth is dead because everyone
(01:00:14):
who is born into the world isborn into death, and that's why
we need Christ.
Christ is the light and the lifeof mankind in John, chapter 1.
And so when we believe inChrist, christ says in the third
chapter of John, you must beborn again to be saved.
(01:00:37):
And so being born again is yoursoul is being rebirthed into
the kingdom of God as a child ofGod.
And now you are growing andmaturing and living as a child
of God, no longer as a dead manin the dead kingdom of Satan.
And so when we live in this newkingdom of Christ, we have to
(01:01:01):
practice the sanctification ofovercoming sin and saying no to
the world and saying yes toJesus.
And when we step into eternitywith God, we see the labor, we
see the fruits from our laborsand we get to finally step into
the presence of the almighty God, like physically.
(01:01:21):
That's what I'm most excitedfor.
I know this is supposed to be aclosing statement and I keep on
rambling on, but it's making methink about dude.
Like the love of God is sogreat that he made a way for us
to be able to enter into hispresence, because that's what he
wants.
He is the way, the truth.
And the life yeah there you go,and but that's what, like God
(01:01:46):
didn't need to send Jesus.
God was not required to savemankind from sin.
He wanted to because he wantedus to be in communion with him
and be in his presence.
He wanted that, and so he madea way for us to be forgiven, he
made a way for us to be adoptedas children and he made a way
(01:02:08):
for us to enter into hispresence.
It's crazy To me that shows thelove.
God does all the work solely toget his creation back into his
presence.
Amazing, amazing.
So yeah, those are my closingstatements Perfect.
Speaker 1 (01:02:23):
So with that, we're now going to transition, tyler,
this is your transition into theend of the episode.
Christ is Lord and the kingdomis now.
Speaker 2 (01:02:32):
We are the saints that serve.
I was like no, he's got anotherhalf hour.
(01:03:00):
What are we going to do?
Speaker 1 (01:03:02):
Tricked you.
I wasn't prepared.
What else are we going to talkabout?
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I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com