August 25, 2025 • 71 mins
- Tune in every Monday for a new episode of "The Saints That Serve Podcast" -
Did humans and dinosaurs live at the same time? Was creation in Genesis six literal days or vast ages of time?
In this episode of Saints That Serve Podcast, we explore the Young Earth vs. Old Earth creation debate - examining Scripture, science, and what it means for our faith. We unpack the Hebrew word yom (“day”), discuss Exodus 20:11, and consider whether dinosaurs fit into biblical history (Noah’s Ark, dragon legends, and extinction timelines).
Most importantly, we remind listeners that while Christians may disagree on the age of the earth, we unite in the core truth that God is the Creator of all.
Join us as we dive into faith, creation, and dinosaurs - while looking ahead to our one-year anniversary in Episode 52!
If you’d like us to pray for you, reach out through social media, direct message using the link in the show notes, or email us at saintsthatserve@gmail.com.
#SaintsThatServe #ChristianPodcast #FaithAndFandom #GospelAndGeek #TheologyAndFilm #ChristianPopCulture #BibleAndCulture #ChristianApologetics #YoungEarthVsOldEarth #AgeOfTheEarth #GenesisCreation #CreationismVsScience #BiblicalCreation #DinosaursInTheBible #NoahsArk #ScriptureAndCreation #HebrewYom #Exodus2011 #DragonsAndDinosaurs #GodAsCreator #FaithAndScience
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Welcome to the Saints that Serve, podcast where, each
week, your hosts dive into thecrossroads of faith, culture and
the unknown.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Christ is Lord and the kingdom is now.
We are the Saints that Serve.
Hey everybody.
(00:40):
Welcome to the Saints thatServe podcast.
Oh yeah, I'm your host, jrs Doit, lady.
Welcome to the Saints to Surfpodcast.
Oh yeah, I'm your host, jairus.
Do it, lady, and with me is myhost, co-host John.
Huh, and talk to the people,john.
Okay, hey, it's me.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
It's John.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Yeah, this is how we're going to talk now for the
entire episode 49 of the Saintsto Serve podcast.
Episode 49, baby, you got to dothe high voice, high pitch
voice.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
I don't want to you don't want to.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
I don't want to.
I don't want to do it.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
This is weird.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
This is the worst intro of the Saints to Serve
podcast I've ever heard.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Yeah, Wait a minute.
You put those words in my mouth.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
So yeah, episode 49 of the Saints to Serve podcast.
How are you feeling?
49 episodes old.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
I'm feeling pretty great Bob.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Why is it that the name Bob makes kids laugh?
Speaker 2 (01:49):
I don't know, you brought that up earlier, didn't
you?
No, your wife did.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
That's why I'm asking it.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Oh, I heard somebody in the background saying it and
I was like I don't know, I can'tthink about that right now.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
I'm too focused on my new video game system.
Yeah, that's a big thing thattook up my brain space today was
getting this new xbox, new old,old, new xbox set up for these
chitlins which is crazy becausewe kind of talked about it and
it's like right now because of,like, the shortage of parts and
and manufacturing cost on thesesystems, like the xbox series x,
(02:25):
which is the one that you got,yeah, is incredibly hard to find
because they're not making themright now.
So the selling price on a usedone typically has skyrocketed
past what the original purchaseprice of them is.
Yeah, currently and you foundit on Facebook Marketplace I'm
(02:46):
not calling out the actualnumber you told me, but it is
significantly less than thecurrent used asking price.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Yes, it is quite, quite, quite cheaper, thankfully
because I destroyed our otherone by accident.
Yeah, you tried to fix it, Itried to fix it but ended up not
fixing it.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Yeah, your wife's going to listen to this episode
and be like I hate Jairus forthis, but I'm going to make a
joke.
Okay, you're going to turn iton one day and just a bunch of
cockroaches come pouring out ofit.
Gross, don't say that.
Or a rat's inside of it, ratsthat.
Or a rat's inside of it, rats,just one.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Just one, or a rat is inside of it well, one rat or
multiple mice, ratatouille,ratatouille.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
He's in there pulling the strings, controlling the
xbox.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
The kids aren't actually playing the game here.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
No they're not.
He's just like crossing thewires perfectly.
So an image is coming up on thescreen Ratatouille of the Xbox.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Yeah, so that was our thing.
Yeah, do we got any?
Speaker 1 (03:58):
announcements Announcements.
I don't know.
You tell me, do we have anyannouncements?
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Check, be on the lookout for episode 52.
That's the big one.
Something big is coming up soon.
Tell me, do we have anyannouncements?
Check, be on the lookout forepisode 52.
We're gonna be that's.
That's the big one, somethingbig that's coming up soon, and
uh it's only at this point,three weeks away, episode 52,
yeah, and uh what's the date onthat?
It's gonna be september uhwhile he's looking that up every
(04:22):
friday 15th.
Oh there we go.
September 15th, episode 52.
Make sure you check it out thatis our one year anniversary.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
We have been, in three weeks, been doing this
podcast for one whole circlearound the sun on this little
planet that's right, that's uscelebrating putting out an
episode every mond, almost One.
Except one.
We did make it every Mondayexcept for one, but we made up
that one episode that we missedwith tons of bonus content that
(04:53):
we have.
That, if you want to go see, golook at it as you listen.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Yeah, I mean there are a couple of live streams.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
There are a couple of live streams.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
So feel free to do that too.
But yeah, outside of that, wepray for you every single Friday
, so if you need prayer foranything, reach out to us.
There's a messaging link at thebottom of the description for
this show.
There's also an email.
You can email us atsaintsthatserveatgmailcom.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
I'm going to call you out.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Because I never notice it when you do it, but
when I'm editing I notice it.
Okay, you always refer to thisas the show.
It's the episode you always sayshow.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
At the bottom of the description for the episode,
there's a link.
It'll take you to directmessaging and you can message us
that way.
Email us at saints that serveat gmailcom, or you can reach
out to us on social media.
We're all there and that's allI've got as far as announcements
.
Do you have anything that youwant to announce?
Speaker 1 (05:59):
No, nothing on your heart.
I got to get a little bitSomething off my heart Is what
you're saying it's free now,we're good to go.
Oh man, anyways, alright.
Yes, I had that fart In myheart.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Just get the fart Out of your heart, guys.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
You heard it here From the saints that serve, from
the saint boys, words of wisdomGet that fart Out of your heart
, that's right, yeah, boy.
Get that fart out of your heart, that's right, yeah, boy.
Get that fart out of your heartso you can make room for Jesus,
yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Okay, yeah, that's all we got for announcements, so
we're going to go into our maintopic tonight, which I'm not as
cut and dry as, likeChristianity verse Jehovah
Witness or Christianity versusMormonism.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Like this one, we do have to dig a little bit through
the weeds, because, becauseit's just to some degree it's
really just opinion and, basedoff what I've kind of researched
, it doesn't fully.
There's probably some aspectsthat do, but it doesn't really
(07:08):
fully get in the way of God.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
It's not a salvific issue.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
So it doesn't.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
your salvation doesn't hinge on it.
That neither camp can saywithout a doubt that it's
irrefutable like this is how itis, because the evidence would
have to be from history andwe're not in the past.
(07:36):
We're not in history.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
So everything that we look at as evidence, let's just
get into it and then'll talkabout it.
So, tyler, this is yourtransition.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
We're talking today about creationism.
Old verse young creationismthat's right.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
So or young earth or old earth young earth or old
earth more specifically.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
but yeah, uh, some of the stuff I was doing because I
was trying to listen to theargument from an old earth
creationist and what they woulduse as an argument and, um, you
know, when they're approachingit from the some of it is kind
(08:26):
of like in the weeds as far asevidence to support it.
Like one of the arguments thatI heard was you look at the
ancestry of the genealogy inGenesis, in genesis, and it
(08:53):
talks about people being superold, getting like up to 900
years old or whatever, but thenit takes the argument that
abraham's father, father abraham, is like lives to like 200 and
something, and he has.
I got to find the genealogy andhe has Abraham at like 100
something.
(09:13):
And then you go to the story ofAbraham, where God comes and
says he's going to have a son.
Abraham says like, well, I'm100 years old and my wife's
coming up on 100.
Can someone so old have a baby?
And the argument that they makeis see if—.
So whose argument is this?
This is an old Earthcreationist saying that you
(09:34):
can't rely on the genealogy inthe text to show how old the
Earth is, because there's anargument that, basically, if
Abraham thought 100 years wastoo old to have a kid, then how
could his dad, at 100 plus years, have Abraham?
Speaker 1 (09:54):
Well, isn't there a very specific Bible verse where
they and maybe I'm wrong, butthey say this is where I'm
shortening the life of people.
God says that?
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Yeah, he says that after the flood that mankind's
become too wicked, and heshortens the lifespan to 120
years.
But the argument so Abraham Iguess his dad, terah, lives to a
hundred.
Hold on, I'm looking at a graph, graph Graph.
(10:32):
So I guess this graph says thatTara, abraham's dad had Abraham
at 130 years, if I'm readingthat correctly.
I don't know where they gotthat, though.
So, calculating the date ofcreation, how do we arrive at a
(10:53):
date of 4,400 BC for thecreation of the world?
Genealogies in Genesis 5 and 11follow the pattern, and father
lived years and begot son.
Adding up those years showsthat Abraham was born about
2,000 years after God createdAdam.
We align Abraham's life withour calendar based on
(11:19):
archaeological evidence.
Archbishop James Usher is wellknown for applying several
historical and biblical clues toalign these dates with the
Julian calendar, while many havedisputed or revised the
calculations.
Yeah, this graph is on vizbible.
(11:41):
It's a genealogies calculatorgraph and it's genesis timeline
from adam to abraham.
And yeah, I'm gonna try andlook up something real quick
while you talk all right.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
so while you do that, what is young earth theory
versus older theory?
Right, we're going to talkabout in this episode might as
well you know, yeah, what is,what is it?
Speaker 2 (12:04):
What is?
Speaker 1 (12:05):
it.
What is it so?
Young earth theory essentially,it says that the earth is
somewhere between six to 10,000years old, and then, for older,
they say that the earth is aboutfour and a half billion years
old.
In the universe is about 13.5billion years old, and the
universe is about 13.8 billionyears old.
(12:26):
And so young Earth calculatestheirs based off of the
genealogies in Genesis, and thenold Earth calculates theirs
with astrology and geology.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
I'm having a hard time with this.
So the calculator app we werejust looking at said that
Abraham's dad, Terah, lived 130years and then begot Abraham and
then lived 75 years after that.
But when I go to the genealogyin Genesis 11, it says that
(13:06):
Genesis 11, 26, and Terah lived70 years and begot Abraham,
Nahor and Haran.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
So somebody's lying, I was going to say let's go off
the Bible.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Let's go off what the Bible says, the.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
B-I-B-L-E.
That's the book for me Becauseit states the age correctly
B-I-B-L-E oh yeah, so, yeah, sowe're going to get into it more.
But something that isinteresting is that Young Earth
(13:44):
believes that dinosaurs livedamong people pre-flood and then
old Earth believes that theylived millions of years before
humans.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Yes, millions of years in different eras.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
But apparently everybody believes that era is
the jurassic era there was acouple of different dinosaur
eras.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
It's just.
Jurassic is made popular becausethe films we had a, we had a
park and a world I know that Iheard the argument like dating
for the world, like the basic,like carbon dating.
Carbon dating yes, I guessspecifically carbon-14 is what
(14:32):
they're looking for is based offof how old the paleontologist
discoveries of dinosaur bonesare right, mm-hmm.
And then it's like okay, okay,well, how do we know how old
those are?
And then the answer to that iswell, we look at what the carbon
dating for the bones are todetermine how old they are.
(14:55):
But that's that's.
My thing is like okay, soyou're using the bones to figure
out how to accurately use quote, unquote accurately, accurately
use carbon dating.
But then you know how old thebones are because you use carbon
dating to date them, right.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong,but that's how it was explained
(15:17):
to me, and to me that doesn'tmake sense.
Like how do you know how thebones are?
Well, we use carbon dating todate them, okay.
How do you know how old thebones are?
Well, we use carbon dating todate them, okay.
How do you know carbon datingis accurate?
Well, because of how old thebones are.
That were.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
So it's just circular thinking to explain something
that's inaccurate.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
I, that's how.
Once again, I don't.
I'm not by any means a smartperson, so, but that's how it
was explained to me, and so Iwas like I don't know.
That just doesn't seem right tome, yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
I mean.
But yeah, based off what you'resaying, it sounds like it's
circular thinking.
It's just like you keep goingaround in them circles thinking
yeah, so a core belief of youngearth is reading Genesis
literally safeguards biblicalauthority, while the core belief
(16:11):
of old earth is science revealsGod's creative majesty without
undermining scripture.
So I think that's something to.
It's important to state againthat either way right or wrong
on both sides it's not likeeither side is trying to
(16:32):
undermine God's authority.
Yeah, it's.
Both sides might not, you know,agree with one another, but at
the end of the day, they bothare, they're both christians and
it's just a viewpoint thatdoesn't, at the end of the day,
affect your salvation yes, Iwould like to bring up, though
(16:53):
that and you guys are gonna it'sgonna be very obvious that I'm
a young earth guy.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
But none of us, and even secular scientists that are
100% on board with evolutionand old earth and do not look to
the Bible as an authority inany way.
They're not Christian, they'rejust secular.
Whatever the science ofevolution and the dating of our
(17:24):
creation of the universe, oflife on our planet, no one
cracked the code until the 1800s.
They will acknowledge that.
So it wasn't until around thetime of Charles Darwin.
He's the one who popularized it.
There was a couple other guys.
Evolution, the one whopopularized it.
There was a couple other guys.
(17:44):
Evolution yeah, that thought ofthis idea of evolution and
darwin's theory of naturalselection is what they were like
.
This is the home run, this iswhat knocks out of the park.
This explains how evolutionworks and this explains how old
the universe is, and this, thatand the other.
(18:05):
And now it's like to a pointnow to where it's like, if you
don't believe or it was for awhile if you don't believe in
evolution, then you're anignorant buffoon who does not
know science, even though, like,the scientific method is not a
(18:25):
means to understand how theuniverse is.
The scientific method is totest something Right.
You collect evidence, you testthe evidence against your
hypothesis and you come to aconclusion.
You can't do that with thebeginning of time because you
(18:49):
can't replicate it.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
Yeah, you can't replicate creation.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
You can't replicate the start of existence.
Well, at least as far as I know, no one has been able to do it.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
Unless they have.
We haven't seen it yet.
Yeah, I don't even know how toexplain that joke.
You know what I mean.
Like I can't take that joke anyfurther.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Yeah, because it's nonsensical but that's one thing
that I did want to bring up isthat the only reason that we're
having this argument about howold the earth is is is it the
young earth 6,000 years age, oris it super old is because of a
(19:31):
secular sign.
Well, maybe he wasn't secular,maybe he did.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
Or somebody outside of Religion.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
Yeah, he was given an alternative to the religious
understanding of the age of theearth.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
Was his intentions to try to disprove?
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Christianity.
I don't know what hisintentions were.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
I didn't know if he specifically said you know my
intentions were here, but youknow.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Yeah, no, my intentions were here, but you
know, yeah, no, I know that hedid a lot of research in the
Galapagos Islands and waslooking at the different, Like
this turtle looks this or, sorry, this tortoise looks this way
and it's in this environment.
And then we hop the next islandover and this tortoise looks a
(20:22):
different way and but they'refrom the same genealogical
family but because of theirenvironment they look different.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Yeah, and like, let me get on that idea of evolution
and Dar um, okay, I believethat Dar uh, evolution and
Darwinism is completely twodifferent things.
Right, when you're just talkinglogically?
Yeah, Because it's like, yes,logically speaking, something
(20:52):
will adapt and evolve to theirenvironment.
That's just common logic, right?
Yeah, but what Charles Darwinimplies is that we there is no
God and that we were not created.
We just evolved from monkeysand that kind of thing.
And it's like I don't knowwhere we got common logic and we
(21:15):
removed it because evolution isadded to that.
Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (21:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
Like yes, evolution is just downright, it.
It's logically.
Something adapts to itsenvironment and over time, its
dna and its gene and gene ingenealogy, genealogy, genealogy
will adapt and change to itsenvironment, right, like, just
for an example, a bird thatneeds to get its beak into a
(21:43):
hole to get a bug will, overtime, down the line of its
ancestry, will eventually grow alonger beak.
That does not mean God doesn'texist.
In fact, I feel like it provesGod's existence even more to
some degree.
Just the beauty of that momentof something changing.
(22:04):
You know what I mean.
If something was created byaccident and didn't have a plan,
I feel like that wouldn't behappening at all.
You know what I mean.
Something would just die.
You know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (22:14):
Not its entire species adapts to continue,
thriving, to continue thrivingWell and my understanding, like
here's the deal, like evolutionthere's some that talk about
that, I guess the microevolution, where a certain animal will
(22:34):
adapt over time to itsenvironment to survive, and then
there are the other.
The other extreme side is likeover millions of years, this
whale will slowly come ashoreand be in eventually.
Over millions of years it'sevolved into a coyote.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
That I don't believe, but I do believe that it is
possible that something did comeout of the water you know that
evolution thing and then slowlyadapted to be on land.
That again does not reflect howus, as people, have changed
over time, and does not say thatGod doesn't exist, though, yeah
(23:15):
see, I'm not in that camp.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
I'm not in that camp.
I'm in the camp of, I think,that things with intentional
intervention you can altercertain things.
Characteristics about animals,meaning like dogs, are the best
example.
You can breed certain dogs nowto each other and get desirable
(23:38):
traits from that dog, but youcouldn't take a dog, at least
from my understanding.
You can't take a dog and throwout in this area and then in a
couple of generations it'sstarting to look more cat-like
because that's what it needed todo to survive.
Like that's not happening, true, within a couple of generations
(23:59):
it will still be a dog.
It will operate as a dog will.
It will have all thecharacteristics of a dog.
The only thing that will havechanged is maybe the color of
the fur, or maybe the size ofthe tail or the ears or the
snout length, like everythingabout its genetic makeup will
remain a dog.
(24:19):
You know its genetic makeupisn't changing.
I'm saying that like I knowgenetic makeup, right, I don't.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
But when I say that something crawled out of the
ocean, right, and now it'ssomething different, I'm not
implying that a whale crawledout and then it turned into a
coyote, like.
It's still going to besomething that is, you know,
water-based.
But it's possible that andhere's a great to me an example
(24:48):
that something that was strictlysomething in the ocean over
time came out, and we see ittoday with tadpoles and frogs.
Yeah, so something that waswater-based does end up coming
out.
So it it's not unheard of thatsomething not necessarily a
whale, but something that was inthe ocean did eventually come
(25:10):
out, but it's still obviouslysomething that can both live on
land and water.
So I mean, and that's just,that's not based in reality or
anything, it's just kind of mythinking and my thought process
on it is all.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
I just don't think so .
I think that the reality of ourworld there are so many animal
species and varieties becausewe're still discovering them
today.
Still discovering them today ina time, in a time in history
where we think we knoweverything about our planet.
(25:47):
We're still discovering things,we're still finding out new
things about old places and wedon't have the majority of our
planet documented.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
What I'm saying to you is that next week they're
going to find a well-sized frogin the ocean.
Yeah, okay, and his name isGodzilla, godzilla, godzilla.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
Yeah, but that's just now, in this sphere where we're
at, not to mention extinctspecies, things that have gone
extinct, that we're not awarethey're extinct because there
was no evidence left of them.
And so whenever anarchaeological dig, or whenever
evidence is discovered, if anyevidence survives, we have to
(26:36):
come up with an entire story forthis thing that we never knew
was around right.
And so now we enter into thedinosaurs.
For the vast majority of humanhistory, they've acknowledged
them as dragons, and so theargument has been that dragons,
you know, were these massivereptilian creatures that were
(26:59):
either harmful or helpful,depending on what culture you
were in, and they would beutilized as a pet animal tool,
or they were a menace to societyand had to be eradicated.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
Let me say this what we see dinosaurs as all we have
ever had for dinosaurs is theirskeletons.
Yes, and so, like how manytimes in the last hundred years
has you know this?
The quote-unquote science comeout and said this is what a
(27:35):
raptor actually looks like.
Yeah, you know what I mean.
It's like what we see insomething like jurassic park is
not what the raptors looked like, because they've come out and
said well, we found that theyhad feathers, you know?
Yeah, so it's like you know.
Have you seen, I think?
Have I shown you the picture ofthe world's worst put together
(27:56):
dinosaur skeleton?
Speaker 2 (27:58):
No, hold on one second Fill time for me while I
look for this well, uh, onething people need to look up is,
on that note of the dinosaursand skeletons.
Just look up skin wrappedanimals yeah this takes animal
skeletons of animals we knowexist today because we've got
their skeletons, and it doeswhat they do with dinosaur bones
(28:19):
.
It it just wraps up what theskeleton looks like and that's
the animal you get and when youcompare it to the actual animal
it belongs to, it looks nothinglike the animal it came from.
Have you uh?
Speaker 1 (28:32):
have you also seen.
It's like you show somebody oh,look at this picture somebody
drew based off of looking at theskeleton of a creature that's
alive today and then, comparedto what it actually looks like
Like, just draw based off ofwhat you think this animal would
(28:53):
be.
And they draw it and they showit.
And it's like somebody drewthis monstrous looking creature
and it's a hippo or a dog, yeah,that kind of stuff, creature,
and it's a hippo or a dog?
Yeah, and you know what I mean?
That kind of stuff.
And it's like well, hold up aminute.
We're sitting here gauging whatsomething looks like or how it
actually interacts with theworld, based off of its skeleton
(29:17):
.
That logically doesn't makesense, because we can prove with
things that we have today thatjust because you see a skeleton
does not mean we know what itlooks like or how it functioned
in the world.
So it sounds like I'm sidingwith you, by the way, but
personally, to get back on topica little bit, I don't feel like
(29:39):
I'm somewhere in the middle.
There's aspects of old Earththat I agree with and aspects of
new Earth that I agree with,like, for example, with
dinosaurs.
They didn't necessarily have tolive with humans, but that
doesn't mean that they weremillions of years separated from
(30:00):
people either.
Yeah, the only thing is, Iwould argue that they were
millions of years separated frompeople either.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
Yeah, the only thing is, I would argue that they did
live with humans, because we'vegot hieroglyphic drawings of
things that look awful, likeskeletons of dinosaurs that we
have today.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
Sure, but we have the same thing.
We have pictures and images ofthese things that are skeletons.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
Yeah, but I'm saying is, if these dinosaurs died off
millions of years ago, why arethe Egyptians writing
hieroglyphs with these creaturesin them?
Speaker 1 (30:33):
But are they the skeletons of the creatures or
actual creatures?
Speaker 2 (30:36):
No, it's a rendition of the creature and it looks
very similar to what we try tosay.
The creature looks like fromthe skeletons that we've dug up.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
So this real quick, and then we can get back to
yours.
This is an image of a dinosaurskeleton put together in 1663.
Oh my gosh.
So describe that to everybody.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
It's essentially a two-legged unicorn is what it
looks like With a long tail.
Essentially, a two-leggedunicorn is what it looks like
With a long tail, with a longtail.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
Yeah, that's pretty rough.
So it's like we don't knowMoral of the story.
We as people have no idea whatwe're doing.
We love, love, love to act likewe know what we're doing all
the time.
So it's just like you can'ttrust something that you get in
a textbook in school becauseit's consistently changing,
(31:27):
because we're alwaysconsistently disproving
something that somebody elsecame up with, which again also
greatly rudes the Bible, becauseit still exists, so separate,
so far separated from the eventsof the Bible, and things are
not changing.
People are trying to change it,but you can't prove that it
(31:52):
needs to be changed.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
Yeah, the only thing we'll have to do a deeper dive
on dinosaurs in a long time, butthat's another thing that was
developed.
The term dinosaur was developedin the 1800s there we go again.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
If you listen to last week, everything's happening in
the 1800s.
Well, that's what I was goingto get with this with old earth
theory.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
It spawns from the darwinism evolution like.
That's where we get the, thepoint where we get to old earth
versus young earth creationism.
It only comes up because of thetheory of evolution.
The theory of evolutionrequires a long and old earth,
long period of time with an oldearth, in order for it to work,
(32:39):
and so they talk about evidencethat they have for it, and so
that's what spirals us into this.
Well, the text of the Bible doesnot support a young earth
creation because of hyperboleand metaphor, and actually
there's some contradictions thatgo into it.
If you take a literal reading ofthe text, then there's no
(33:00):
possible way it supports youngearth.
Blah, blah, blah, blah, allthat stuff.
But the only reason thatthey're bringing that up is
because they believe in an oldearth, and they and the reason
they believe in an old earth isnot because of what they read
from the Bible and not what theytook from historical
(33:20):
inspiration from God to hispeople.
It's because a secular ideologysuggests or declares that the
earth is old, and so they'recoming from the standpoint well,
science has evidence to supportan old earth and so I think
that the earth is old and I'mgoing to disprove the young
(33:44):
earth theory by tearing apartthe bible, uh, the bible
evidence that people wouldtraditionally use.
So I will give to people thatare old earth, you oldies,
creationists.
The book of Genesis, especiallythe creation story, is not a
literal trans.
(34:04):
It's not trying to give abiological like paper on the
evidence of the Hebrews createdall things and they all started
(34:33):
good.
When he created them, they weregood.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
So let me read this because it piggybacks off of
what you're saying, what I havehere.
But when comparing what a dayis in the Bible, right?
Yes, young Earthers believe.
When it says evening andmorning, it's equals to
literally 24 hours, correctBelieves.
(35:02):
Stretching the term day weakensbiblical authority.
And then yom, y-o-m.
Am I saying that right?
Speaker 2 (35:11):
Yom.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
Yom.
Yom in Hebrew can mean day, ageor era, so that is the original
word that's used to describethe day you know, the first day
you know.
God created the heavens and theearth.
Yom Days may represent longepochs or a literary theological
framework, so essentiallysaying that we are almost
(35:35):
mistranslating that word or thatit shouldn't be taken literally
as a day.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
Yeah, the only argument is you're saying that's
the old earth.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
Well, not the only argument.
Just saying, when comparingthose, I got a list of things
that compare to one another.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
Yeah.
So the problem is, when youread it that way, you're saying
that it's saying it's a changingof like, it's a changing of the
time, because you don't justbecause it can be used to be
translated as day, it can alsobe translated as era, or yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
So when it comes to old earth, create creationism,
that yam could be interpreted asnot just essentially don't take
the word day and specificallysay oh my, did you get an
achievement?
Looks like it, nice.
Oh, is your kid?
Xbox is linked to it?
Yeah, nice, but yeah.
(36:29):
So essentially saying that youcan't take the word day
literally as a 24-hour period,but more of.
It's possible that it's a longstretch or a one event, but when
it comes to that, personally,it just seems so much more great
(36:52):
and gives so much more grandeurto God that he did do it in a
24-hour period.
Speaker 2 (36:59):
Yeah, let me read this for you.
Okay, we're in Genesis 1.
Yep, and people will argue withthis and that's totally fine.
I understand, because we'vebeen arguing about it.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
I mean, that's the whole point of this episode is
to argue.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
Yep, actually, we've been arguing about it since the
mid-1800s, mm.
Speaker 1 (37:19):
Real quick fun fact.
Before that, hundreds Realquick fun fact.
Fun fact, by the way.
I meant to say this earlierabout dinosaurs.
Dinosaurs are so new to us ashumans that George Washington
did not know what dinosaurs were, because they weren't
discovered yet.
Speaker 2 (37:40):
I would argue that George Washington knew about the
creatures.
Speaker 1 (37:45):
I'm saying the first fossils were discovered for
modern humans.
Yeah, like you said in the1800s.
Yeah, so George Washington didnot know what a dinosaur was
Dinosaur fossil.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
Yeah, yeah, because the argument I'm making is the
friday.
Yeah, everyone acknowledgeddinosaurs.
They just called them dragons.
And then in the 1800s, a weekstarted labeling them as
dinosaurs.
And if you take evolution andyou say that dinosaurs didn't
exist when humans did, then ityeah, they wouldn't have known
(38:21):
what they look like.
But then you have to say allstories of dragons are myth
because they're giant reptilesand there's no way that giant
reptiles lived when humans livedI could tell you right now
there's no such thing as aflying dinosaur, yeah, so, yeah,
that was a joke, there's flyingdinosaurs, yeah, yeah
(38:43):
pterodactyls.
Anyways, let's get into the text.
So we're talking about.
You use the.
So the argument is yom does notnecessarily mean literal day.
It can be translated to mean aspan of time.
This is how the text reads whenit's translated given.
(39:05):
But it says we'll start inverse 3.
Of Genesis, Genesis 1.
And God said let there be light.
And there was light.
And God saw the light, that itwas good, and God divided the
light from the darkness and Godcalled the light day, and the
(39:26):
yom and the darkness he callednight.
And the evening and the morningwere the first yom day.
And God said let there be afirmament in the midst of the
waters and let it divide thewaters from the waters.
And God made the firmament anddivided the waters which were
(39:48):
under the firmament from thewaters which were above the
firmament.
And it was so, and God calledthe firmament heaven, and the
evening and the morning were thesecond day, and it keeps going,
or the second yom.
So it's either each progressionof creation is a different era
(40:12):
in time or it's each day of thecreation cycle of six days, or
you're mixing and matching.
Speaker 1 (40:21):
No, just those days were a lot longer back then yeah
, but here's the thing is.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
Genesis is not directly addressing the idea of
is the earth millions of yearsold or is this happening in a
span of a week?
Creation, because no one at thetime that it's being written
has an issue with the earthbeing created in a week it's
(40:50):
only now that we create an issuethat we have to solve it yeah,
mankind is so saturated inphilosophy and the intellectual
pursuit of knowledge because ofthe enlightenment era they put a
massive emphasis on the pursuitof knowledge and understanding
(41:13):
them.
We need an explanation foreverything that the supernatural
almost sounds fairy tale-ishand shouldn't be taken seriously
.
So, god, so somethingsupernatural like a six day time
span of everything coming intoexistence?
(41:34):
It's just for some reason nowthat seems too good to be true
and it's fairy tale ish and fakeand a mythos.
But for ancient peoples, I mean, creation stories were
relatively short.
You know, it was like and thisGod did this thing and boom,
(41:55):
this happened because of whatthis God did.
And then this God did thisthing and boom, this happened.
And so it wasn't like it tookme.
They didn't address it and saythat over millions of years,
this is how this developed.
They said because this God didthis, we have this.
That's how they understoodcreation.
And the creation story ofGenesis is saying there's only
(42:18):
one God and he did it all and hedid it all.
And in the beginning, when hedid it all, it was good, it was
not chaotic, it was not evil, itwas not done in contradiction
of somebody else to vie forpower.
All of it was created for hispleasure and he found and saw
that it was good.
And it wasn't until sin, thedefiance and disobedience of God
(42:44):
, came into the world.
That then God saw and said thatit is bad.
Speaker 1 (42:52):
Pull up Exodus 20, 11 for me and read that out loud.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
All right.
Exodus 20, verse 11 says whatjust happened.
My translation went over to mySpanish translation.
Read it in Spanish Do you wantit in the KJV or the ESV?
Let's go with ESV on this one.
Okay, fair enough.
All right, let's redo this realquick because no one's going to
(43:20):
understand.
All right, maybe peopleunderstand.
We've got an internationalaudience.
It'll be some spanish-speakingpeople maybe, maybe all right.
Exodus 2011 says for in sixdays, the lord made heaven and
earth, the sea and all that isin them, and rested on the
seventh day, therefore.
(43:40):
Therefore, the Lord blessed theSabbath day and made it holy.
Speaker 1 (43:47):
So young earth, based off of using that verse, says
that that supports a literalweek.
Yes, humans rest because Godliterally created in six days,
correct.
At least I believe that Good,good Old earth believers see it
as a theological parallel.
Sabbath patterns doesn'trequire literal 24 hour creation
(44:11):
days.
Yom brother, yom Yom.
Speaker 2 (44:20):
Yeah, Yom brother, yom Yom, yeah, and I would I
mean everyone that's going tolike get into the old earth,
young earth argument.
They're going to know this, butthe author of Exodus is the
same author of Genesis.
It's not two different guyswriting two different books.
Speaker 1 (44:38):
I would argue that they were all written by God.
Speaker 2 (44:41):
They're all divinely inspired by God.
Speaker 1 (44:47):
You always have an answer to my joke that just
shuts down Like how dare youmake a joke?
We got to take this serious.
Speaker 2 (44:56):
No, but yeah, I understand what you're saying.
I'm sorry, yeah, and on theseventh yom, on the seventh yom,
on the seventh yom, on theseventh yom, he rested.
Speaker 1 (45:08):
That's why I take long periods and do nothing,
months at a time or regardlessor not of if you believe in the
old earth evolution.
Speaker 2 (45:31):
The translation of the text is taken literally that
we should rest on the seventhday of the week because the
historical practice of JudaismJudaism is that they work for
six days and they rest on theseventh holy day, which is
Sabbath.
So even though you're, you know, thousands of years removed
(45:55):
from the writing of the text andyou're saying that it doesn't
necessarily mean a literal sevendays, the response to that is
tell that to all of thereligious practicing Christians
and Jews who've been doing itliteral seven days for thousands
(46:19):
of years, because that's howthey've understood it.
They've practiced Sabbath as aseventh day rest because God
rested from his creation work onthe seventh day of his creation
cycle.
Talk all day in the in therealm of philosophy about it not
(46:46):
necessarily being a literaldeal.
The problem is is the practiceof the truth?
Has been a literal seven days?
Speaker 1 (46:55):
you want to talk about the flood.
New earth, young earthersbelieve that it's a catastrophic
global event.
Explains fossil layers, rapidgeological features like the
Grand Canyon, and coral deposits, not coral coal deposits, coal
(47:16):
deposits.
I need to learn how to read.
Speaker 2 (47:19):
I think they talk about that for gas as well, like
the oil, oil.
Speaker 1 (47:24):
Remember get the fart out of your heart gas.
Yeah, yeah, yep, yep uh no.
Oil deposits and coal depositsare because of a mass extinction
event which we can talk to uh'mgoing to go into in just a
second but for old earth theybelieve that it's likely.
(47:48):
The flood is likely a local orregional event in Mesopotamia.
Speaker 2 (47:53):
Mesopotamia.
Speaker 1 (47:55):
Fossils and geology reflect long ages, not a single
flood, which I feel like wouldgo against the Bible.
Like we're here saying that,like one side or the other, does
not affect your core belief.
But to say that God did notactually do what he said he did.
I flooded the earth, you knowwhat I mean.
(48:16):
And just to say, oh, it's justa bunch of small water floods
sounds to me like that isactually going against what we
should believe.
Speaker 2 (48:28):
Yeah, Every, maybe not every, but most ancient
cultures we've been able to see,we've been able to discover
that they have a flood story.
We've been able to discoverthat they have a flood story.
and all these ancient culturesbelieve it to be a global,
(48:48):
global catastrophic catastrophicevent that only one character
survives because he makes an arcand survives this global cat.
Well, they don't say globalbecause they don't know that the
world's a globe, but they sayit.
Their existence, everything,yeah, is flooded.
So, you know, I guess I couldget behind it.
(49:25):
All of society has to come outof wherever this regional global
event, wherever this regionalflood event, regional global,
wherever this we're currentlyregional global guys wherever
this regional flood eventhappened it seems that all of
society stems from, it, comesout of it Because, like all
(49:52):
cultures share this story, andso either all of humanity comes
from this one ancestor whosurvives this flood event at
least that's what it would seemin my mind.
Maybe I'm wrong, but that's whatit would seem or it's the
(50:13):
entire world is flooded andnoah's the only one who makes it
out, and the explanation forall the things that we're
discovering are a rapid floodevent happens, and that's what
fossilizes things and that'swhat causes the erosion evidence
(50:33):
that we have, and that's whatcauses the example of the earth
that we have today is because ofthe way that the waters receded
after the flood.
So, yeah, that's what's in mymind.
Speaker 1 (50:50):
Thinking about it, I could be wrong, though let's
talk about those dinosaurs realquick, because you talked about
this catastrophic, youextinction level event, right?
What are we talking about whenwe talk about that extension?
Extinction level event, talkabout dinosaurs yeah, so young
(51:13):
earthers believe that dinosaurswere created on the day six with
the humans.
Do you believe that?
Speaker 2 (51:21):
dinosaurs were created on day six yeah, with
humans.
Speaker 1 (51:24):
Yeah, yeah, you think so I think so yeah, they lived
alongside mankind, extinct afterafter the flood, and survived
as dragons.
Some cryptids, like the lochness monster, are cited as
possible survivors.
Speaker 2 (51:42):
Yeah, I was going to say I don't think they went
extinct after the flood.
Speaker 1 (51:46):
Yeah, this is a little interesting, a little bit
contradictory, a little bit toa degree.
So, oh wait, so you don't thinkthey died in the flood.
Speaker 2 (51:59):
I think that dinosaurs died.
A vast majority of dinosaursdied in the flood, but I think
there were dinosaurs on the arkand when the waters receded,
everything came off the ark.
So dinosaurs came off the ark.
Speaker 1 (52:12):
Is that how we got chickens?
No, Well, supposedly chickensare descendants of T-Rexes.
That's the reason why I madethat joke.
Speaker 2 (52:24):
Yeah, I know that.
Yeah, I see those a lot, butyeah, I don't I think that
dinosaurs lived well into theyou could say dark ages is what
it would seem could say, um,dark ages is what it would seem.
Speaker 1 (52:48):
So old earth believes that dinosaurs lived millions
of years before humans and wentextinct 65 million years ago and
fossils fit geologic timescales.
Dragons are myth and legend.
I I do.
I kind of more lean, like Isaid, probably more young earth,
but I think that even theideology of old earth to some
(53:10):
degree could be applied to somedegree.
You know what I mean like tosay the.
Well, I don't have an examplenow that I thought I did.
Like the dinosaurs, for example, yeah, right it.
I feel like it could be thatthey might not have necessarily
lived alongside humans, but notseparated, like I said before,
(53:31):
by those millions and millionsof years, but like hundreds of
years okay and so our you knowagain, our carbon dating.
Dating can be wrong when itcomes to that.
You know, yeah.
Yeah To the millions, Becausewe can't even know how to put a
fossil together correctly.
You know, yeah.
And then we thought thatraptors were giant man-eating
(53:57):
lizards.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (53:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (53:58):
So I mean, but that's just my opinion, you know, sure
, I feel like there's like Imean, but that's just my opinion
, you know, sure, I feel likethere's, like you know, a middle
ground to it, like, yeah, notto the extreme of both one way
or another old Earth or youngEarth, yeah, I think.
Speaker 2 (54:14):
When it comes to dinosaurs, I think that the
reason we don't have them aroundanymore is because of that.
I think that— we hunted themdown and ate them all I think
they were hunted to extinctionbecause of different reasons
depending on the region, but Imean the black I think it's
either the white or the blackrhino does not exist in the wild
(54:36):
anymore, so whenever the onesin the zoos die out, it will be
extinct completely.
Whales sperm whales almost wentcompletely extinct due to the
whaling operation.
Before we found coal and oil,that was the predominant fuel
(54:58):
source for lights and stuff oillamps.
Speaker 1 (55:04):
Yeah, completely off topic, but it reminded me.
Are you still down to go huntwhales this weekend?
Yeah, let's go.
Speaker 2 (55:10):
All right, perfect Side note.
But I'm just saying I'm not abiologist.
I'm sure that someone elsecould bring up more examples of
animals that have went extinctwithin the history of man, Right
the documentable extinctionsMeaning we've only been
(55:34):
examining and monitoring thelives of different species of
animals and cataloging thatinformation.
Speaker 1 (55:42):
And only really the ones that are currently alive.
Speaker 2 (55:47):
Or have recently went extinct.
Everything else we've kind ofjust tried to gather as much
information we can, but becausethey've already went extinct
before we started thedocumentation process you know
it's up to.
But that's what I would sayabout dinosaurs.
People say that they'remillions of years old.
(56:07):
But what if they're not?
What if the only reason that wehave evidence for the dinosaurs
and all these prehistoricmegafauna creatures is because
of a global event that happenedthat fossilized all these
different creatures bones, youknow their remains which could
(56:31):
be the flood and, like you said,dinosaurs were on the ark yeah,
or could have been I.
They were.
I firmly believe that they wereand, once again, like I, I
think that the mystery ofhistory, so everything that we
get from folklore and these talltales, it's not just something
(56:55):
completely conjured.
Like someone didn't just out ofnowhere, with no context, of a
massive reptilian-like creature,created a massive
reptilian-like creature, likethey had to base it off of
something that they understoodor saw, and so what was it?
You know, like even things thatwe do create, that are totally
(57:22):
made up, the attributes of thosethings are based off of living
things around us.
You know, like, take theexample this is maybe not the
best example, but take theexample of the Slenderman right,
totally fictional, correct.
However, all of the attributesof the Slenderman are humanoid
(57:49):
and demonic, things that alreadyexist, things that already
exist, and so it's not bringingsomething new.
That was incomprehensible untilthe creation of this one thing.
Speaker 1 (58:02):
So what you're saying is they had to base these
things off of something that wasreal.
Speaker 2 (58:08):
Correct.
So either they're taking thesmall little lizards they would
find rummaging around anddrumming it up to like oh yeah,
they were way big, oh massive,massive or they were massive
reptilian creatures that werebeing hunted for the sake of you
know, making yourself noble andproud.
Speaker 1 (58:30):
Did they breathe fire ?
Speaker 2 (58:31):
I don't know, maybe, maybe, I mean there's Did they
fly.
There's documentation of ashrimp-like creature in the
ocean that can cause anexplosion from its body.
There's like a beetle that cancause sparks to come out of its
body from doing.
I don't remember what it does,but it does.
I mean there's creatures thatcan can produce massive amounts
(58:54):
of bursts of energy.
You know, yeah.
So why could?
Why not?
Speaker 1 (59:00):
why not?
Why not?
It's just like and just kind offictionalized to some degree,
the scale of what it was doingit at yeah.
Speaker 2 (59:08):
Another thing to consider.
The Bible talks about a dragonand it's Satan, and so, if you
take the supernatural aspect ofthis, not all dragons maybe,
maybe not all dragons weredemonic, but maybe demonic
(59:30):
manifestations occur in dragonform.
So we have to think about do webelieve that demonic entities
can manifest in a tangible way,or are they limited to just
spiritual anomalies of like yousaw something out of the corner
(59:55):
of your eye, you hear thingswhen you see something in the
corner of your eye, it's adinosaur.
Yeah, but what if something veryphysical that you can touch
appears out of nowhere and doesvery physical things and there's
not really a good explanationoutside of a spiritual
(01:00:19):
manifesting in front of you inthe physical?
So that's another rabbit trailwe could go down, and we will
Next week on the Saints, butokay, so here's an example the
Asiatic lion.
Okay, it's still around today,but it's only in one area, in
(01:00:43):
India Now.
It used to be all over Pakistanand the Mesopotamian area, like
Turkey and Iran and everythinglike that used to roam those
places, but because the ancientBabylonians and Persians looked
at it as a feat of strength, away for their Kings to deify
(01:01:04):
themselves, was to kill a lion.
They would hunt these lions forsport, to the point where the
Asiatic lion has undergone amassive, almost extinction level
.
And now, when it used to roamall of these areas of the
Northern Middle East and intoAsia, now it's really only in
(01:01:26):
one area and into Asia now it'sreally only in one area, a very
condensed area.
So there's things like that.
Like you know, if the practiceshad continued, the Asiatic line
would be totally extinct.
And that's what I would sayabout dragons is they were
hunted to extinction, I wouldsay that there is an attachment
(01:01:51):
to the glory of what it was tobe for to dominate it to destroy
a lie, to destroy a dragon, andso people went out of their way
.
Speaker 1 (01:01:59):
I mean you see it in in you know, european fairy
tales all the time of having tohunt down the dragon, because
it's a thing that needs to bekilled, correct?
Speaker 2 (01:02:08):
and here's here's another example the american
bison almost did not make it,yeah, and the reason is they
slaughtered hundreds ofthousands of them for no, no
good reason, but they werehungry.
They didn't eat the meat.
They literally slaughtered themand left them out to die bro,
(01:02:31):
have you ever killed a bisonbefore?
The thrill man, the thrill ohyeah no I did it for the thrill
and that's so mad.
So beavers, bisons and beaversgot it north.
(01:02:56):
The beavers in north americaalmost went extinct because they
were hunting them for their fur, because they made the optimal.
There was an iconic europeanEuropean.
Everybody wanted a beaver furhat and so they killed an insane
amount of beavers to meet thedemand for the hats, to the
(01:03:21):
point where the beavers almostdidn't make it.
The only thing that saved thebeavers were the hats went out
of style.
That's the only thing thatsaved the beavers.
Too bad it didn't go out ofstyle to hunt down the bison for
the out of style.
Speaker 1 (01:03:30):
Jeez.
That's the only thing thatsaved the people.
Too bad.
It didn't go out of style tohunt down the bison for the
thrill of it.
Speaker 2 (01:03:35):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, there we go.
Speaker 1 (01:03:39):
Sorry, that is.
I want a shirt now and it'sjust somebody killing a bison
and it just says I'm doing itfor the thrill.
Speaker 2 (01:03:48):
I'm doing it for the thrill, for the thrill of it,
geez.
Speaker 1 (01:03:51):
Oh man, all right.
Do you have anything else?
On old earth versus new earthum, not really.
Speaker 2 (01:03:59):
Like I said, I'm sure that someone could come up with
a much better argument for oldearth and I would be like, oh
wow, I've never thought aboutthat before yeah, but do people
really come to this podcast forfacts or do they come to the
podcast for the same boys Forthe thrilling energy?
For the thrill of the boys, ohyeah.
Speaker 1 (01:04:22):
That's just going to be.
My thing now is like introing.
Speaker 2 (01:04:24):
Welcome to the thrilling episode of Seize the
Zer Podcast.
Yeah, I totally forgot, oh,forgot, oh, oh yeah.
So the biggest thing I get hungup on, like I said, biggest
thing I get hung up on with thiscreation back and forth is if
you did not know about evolutionand you did not know the
(01:04:49):
requirements for it and you justread the bible, you would
assume through the reading ofthe text that creation happened
in a literal seven days.
You would not say, uh, oh, it'sambiguous.
You know it could be millionsof years, it could be thousands
of years.
It's just, it's just done a lotof time.
(01:05:12):
You know you would read it couldbe millions of years, it could
be thousands of years, it's justan allotted time.
You know you would read it andbe like, oh wow, creation
happened in seven days.
And then you bring in the.
Well, no, the Earth couldpotentially be millions of years
old.
And so that word that says dayactually could be translated
another way to say a time period.
So there you go could betranslated another way to say a
time period.
So there you go the earth isactually old, because all
(01:05:33):
science that we've put into thisis saying that the earth is old
, so that's my argument there.
Speaker 1 (01:05:40):
It's been practiced as create the creation story is
a literal seven days, andhistorically it's been practiced
that way up until the 1800s andhere's my kind of like, also
supportive statement, becauseI'm not arguing with you, I'm
supporting you is that godblatant like not blatantly but
(01:06:04):
directly says what it is?
Yeah, and god doesn't work inmystery or or confusion.
Speaker 2 (01:06:11):
If he tells you something, it's going to be what
it is yeah, I don't have theverse for you here right now,
but it does say that you know,the mysteries of god are
confounding to man and theknowledge of God like seems like
foolishness to man.
(01:06:32):
Right, but man's knowledge isfoolishness when you compare it
against God's knowledge.
And that's because we're in acorrupted, sinful state and we
need the salvation that onlycomes through Jesus Christ to be
able to be put back into rightstanding with the creator of the
(01:06:52):
universe.
Because we all have to agree onthat Whether you're a young
earth or an old earth individual, you have to acknowledge that
God is the creator of it all,otherwise you're not a Christian
.
God has to be the creator ofall things and you have to
acknowledge that it's because ofman that sin came into the
(01:07:16):
world, and we need the atonementof Christ to be redeemed, to be
in good standing with God again, so that we can truly begin to
understand the mysteries of thisearth that we're on.
You know, we see in part rightnow, but eventually all things
will be revealed.
(01:07:36):
That's what the scripture says,and so I think that maybe
having an open hand on thisdebate, you know, is where we
need to be.
But whenever it comes to adebate and you look at the two
(01:07:58):
sides.
Which side gives more glory toGod?
Speaker 1 (01:08:03):
Right, which I had said that earlier.
It's like what sounds moremagnificent and glorifying to
the creator and it would be newearth yeah, I would.
Speaker 2 (01:08:15):
I would say that the young earth does, and my
argument for it is is becauseeveryone acknowledged that as
fact up until someone had tohave a separate opinion someone
had an opinion that, oh well, itseems like it would take a long
time for the development ofthese animals to develop in the
(01:08:35):
way that they did, so the worldcouldn't possibly be as young as
we say it is, so it has to beold, and yeah, so that's what I
would say, but prove me wrongpeople.
All right, you heard him.
You heard him right here rightnow In the comment section,
(01:08:58):
argue with us about this veryspecific topic random people
that are in the sciencecommunity coming out talking
about how old earth creation islosing standing in the field of
(01:09:19):
science, because the more thatthey begin to understand about
different things, processes youknow, genetics biology, all of
it, processes, genetics biology,all of it.
It would seem to say that thepinnacle of evolution of just
(01:09:41):
chance, of random whateverdoesn't hold up and at the core
there has to be intelligentdesign.
And then, even then, nowthere's more people starting to
say like, well, it seems likethe young earth stance that
creationists have held tosupports some of these areas in
science.
So, you know, it's like sciencealmost came up with a standard
(01:10:02):
saying like, hey, this is whatwe're interpreting some
information to say and so thisis the truth, this is fact.
And creation, young earth,creation by an all-powerful God,
is mythos and not fact.
And now, as science continuesand people continue to gain
(01:10:23):
understanding, they start to,you know, have a softer grip on
hey, evolution is fact, and arekind of opening their hand a
little bit and saying like, well, maybe it's not, maybe there's
intelligence on.
Speaker 1 (01:10:38):
So all, right, I'm done seriously all right,
awesome.
Well, thank you everybody forjoining us on this wonderful
episode 49 of the saints thatserve podcast do lady lady we
did it lady.
We did it lady.
Yeah, all right, so is that allyou have?
Speaker 2 (01:10:57):
I have one last thing for us to remember.
Okay, are you ready?
Yes, just remember that alsoremember.
Speaker 1 (01:11:08):
get that fart out of your heart so you can put Jesus
there.
So you can put Jesus there.
Speaker 2 (01:11:14):
That's what we said, right.
Speaker 1 (01:11:15):
Yeah, that's what we said.
Okay, all right.
So Christ is Lord and thekingdom is now.
Speaker 2 (01:11:20):
We are the saints that serve.
Speaker 1 (01:11:45):
Get that fart out of your heart.
Welcome to the Saints that Serve, podcast where, each
week, your hosts dive into thecrossroads of faith, culture and
the unknown.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Christ is Lord and the kingdom is now.
We are the Saints that Serve.
Hey everybody.
(00:40):
Welcome to the Saints thatServe podcast.
Oh yeah, I'm your host, jrs Doit, lady.
Welcome to the Saints to Surfpodcast.
Oh yeah, I'm your host, jairus.
Do it, lady, and with me is myhost, co-host John.
Huh, and talk to the people,john.
Okay, hey, it's me.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
It's John.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Yeah, this is how we're going to talk now for the
entire episode 49 of the Saintsto Serve podcast.
Episode 49, baby, you got to dothe high voice, high pitch
voice.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
I don't want to you don't want to.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
I don't want to.
I don't want to do it.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
This is weird.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
This is the worst intro of the Saints to Serve
podcast I've ever heard.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Yeah, Wait a minute.
You put those words in my mouth.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
So yeah, episode 49 of the Saints to Serve podcast.
How are you feeling?
49 episodes old.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
I'm feeling pretty great Bob.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Why is it that the name Bob makes kids laugh?
Speaker 2 (01:49):
I don't know, you brought that up earlier, didn't
you?
No, your wife did.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
That's why I'm asking it.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Oh, I heard somebody in the background saying it and
I was like I don't know, I can'tthink about that right now.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
I'm too focused on my new video game system.
Yeah, that's a big thing thattook up my brain space today was
getting this new xbox, new old,old, new xbox set up for these
chitlins which is crazy becausewe kind of talked about it and
it's like right now because of,like, the shortage of parts and
and manufacturing cost on thesesystems, like the xbox series x,
(02:25):
which is the one that you got,yeah, is incredibly hard to find
because they're not making themright now.
So the selling price on a usedone typically has skyrocketed
past what the original purchaseprice of them is.
Yeah, currently and you foundit on Facebook Marketplace I'm
(02:46):
not calling out the actualnumber you told me, but it is
significantly less than thecurrent used asking price.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Yes, it is quite, quite, quite cheaper, thankfully
because I destroyed our otherone by accident.
Yeah, you tried to fix it, Itried to fix it but ended up not
fixing it.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Yeah, your wife's going to listen to this episode
and be like I hate Jairus forthis, but I'm going to make a
joke.
Okay, you're going to turn iton one day and just a bunch of
cockroaches come pouring out ofit.
Gross, don't say that.
Or a rat's inside of it, ratsthat.
Or a rat's inside of it, rats,just one.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Just one, or a rat is inside of it well, one rat or
multiple mice, ratatouille,ratatouille.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
He's in there pulling the strings, controlling the
xbox.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
The kids aren't actually playing the game here.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
No they're not.
He's just like crossing thewires perfectly.
So an image is coming up on thescreen Ratatouille of the Xbox.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Yeah, so that was our thing.
Yeah, do we got any?
Speaker 1 (03:58):
announcements Announcements.
I don't know.
You tell me, do we have anyannouncements?
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Check, be on the lookout for episode 52.
That's the big one.
Something big is coming up soon.
Tell me, do we have anyannouncements?
Check, be on the lookout forepisode 52.
We're gonna be that's.
That's the big one, somethingbig that's coming up soon, and
uh it's only at this point,three weeks away, episode 52,
yeah, and uh what's the date onthat?
It's gonna be september uhwhile he's looking that up every
(04:22):
friday 15th.
Oh there we go.
September 15th, episode 52.
Make sure you check it out thatis our one year anniversary.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
We have been, in three weeks, been doing this
podcast for one whole circlearound the sun on this little
planet that's right, that's uscelebrating putting out an
episode every mond, almost One.
Except one.
We did make it every Mondayexcept for one, but we made up
that one episode that we missedwith tons of bonus content that
(04:53):
we have.
That, if you want to go see, golook at it as you listen.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Yeah, I mean there are a couple of live streams.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
There are a couple of live streams.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
So feel free to do that too.
But yeah, outside of that, wepray for you every single Friday
, so if you need prayer foranything, reach out to us.
There's a messaging link at thebottom of the description for
this show.
There's also an email.
You can email us atsaintsthatserveatgmailcom.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
I'm going to call you out.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Because I never notice it when you do it, but
when I'm editing I notice it.
Okay, you always refer to thisas the show.
It's the episode you always sayshow.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
At the bottom of the description for the episode,
there's a link.
It'll take you to directmessaging and you can message us
that way.
Email us at saints that serveat gmailcom, or you can reach
out to us on social media.
We're all there and that's allI've got as far as announcements
.
Do you have anything that youwant to announce?
Speaker 1 (05:59):
No, nothing on your heart.
I got to get a little bitSomething off my heart Is what
you're saying it's free now,we're good to go.
Oh man, anyways, alright.
Yes, I had that fart In myheart.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Just get the fart Out of your heart, guys.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
You heard it here From the saints that serve, from
the saint boys, words of wisdomGet that fart Out of your heart
, that's right, yeah, boy.
Get that fart out of your heart, that's right, yeah, boy.
Get that fart out of your heartso you can make room for Jesus,
yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Okay, yeah, that's all we got for announcements, so
we're going to go into our maintopic tonight, which I'm not as
cut and dry as, likeChristianity verse Jehovah
Witness or Christianity versusMormonism.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Like this one, we do have to dig a little bit through
the weeds, because, becauseit's just to some degree it's
really just opinion and, basedoff what I've kind of researched
, it doesn't fully.
There's probably some aspectsthat do, but it doesn't really
(07:08):
fully get in the way of God.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
It's not a salvific issue.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
So it doesn't.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
your salvation doesn't hinge on it.
That neither camp can saywithout a doubt that it's
irrefutable like this is how itis, because the evidence would
have to be from history andwe're not in the past.
(07:36):
We're not in history.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
So everything that we look at as evidence, let's just
get into it and then'll talkabout it.
So, tyler, this is yourtransition.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
We're talking today about creationism.
Old verse young creationismthat's right.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
So or young earth or old earth young earth or old
earth more specifically.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
but yeah, uh, some of the stuff I was doing because I
was trying to listen to theargument from an old earth
creationist and what they woulduse as an argument and, um, you
know, when they're approachingit from the some of it is kind
(08:26):
of like in the weeds as far asevidence to support it.
Like one of the arguments thatI heard was you look at the
ancestry of the genealogy inGenesis, in genesis, and it
(08:53):
talks about people being superold, getting like up to 900
years old or whatever, but thenit takes the argument that
abraham's father, father abraham, is like lives to like 200 and
something, and he has.
I got to find the genealogy andhe has Abraham at like 100
something.
(09:13):
And then you go to the story ofAbraham, where God comes and
says he's going to have a son.
Abraham says like, well, I'm100 years old and my wife's
coming up on 100.
Can someone so old have a baby?
And the argument that they makeis see if—.
So whose argument is this?
This is an old Earthcreationist saying that you
(09:34):
can't rely on the genealogy inthe text to show how old the
Earth is, because there's anargument that, basically, if
Abraham thought 100 years wastoo old to have a kid, then how
could his dad, at 100 plus years, have Abraham?
Speaker 1 (09:54):
Well, isn't there a very specific Bible verse where
they and maybe I'm wrong, butthey say this is where I'm
shortening the life of people.
God says that?
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Yeah, he says that after the flood that mankind's
become too wicked, and heshortens the lifespan to 120
years.
But the argument so Abraham Iguess his dad, terah, lives to a
hundred.
Hold on, I'm looking at a graph, graph Graph.
(10:32):
So I guess this graph says thatTara, abraham's dad had Abraham
at 130 years, if I'm readingthat correctly.
I don't know where they gotthat, though.
So, calculating the date ofcreation, how do we arrive at a
(10:53):
date of 4,400 BC for thecreation of the world?
Genealogies in Genesis 5 and 11follow the pattern, and father
lived years and begot son.
Adding up those years showsthat Abraham was born about
2,000 years after God createdAdam.
We align Abraham's life withour calendar based on
(11:19):
archaeological evidence.
Archbishop James Usher is wellknown for applying several
historical and biblical clues toalign these dates with the
Julian calendar, while many havedisputed or revised the
calculations.
Yeah, this graph is on vizbible.
(11:41):
It's a genealogies calculatorgraph and it's genesis timeline
from adam to abraham.
And yeah, I'm gonna try andlook up something real quick
while you talk all right.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
so while you do that, what is young earth theory
versus older theory?
Right, we're going to talkabout in this episode might as
well you know, yeah, what is,what is it?
Speaker 2 (12:04):
What is?
Speaker 1 (12:05):
it.
What is it so?
Young earth theory essentially,it says that the earth is
somewhere between six to 10,000years old, and then, for older,
they say that the earth is aboutfour and a half billion years
old.
In the universe is about 13.5billion years old, and the
universe is about 13.8 billionyears old.
(12:26):
And so young Earth calculatestheirs based off of the
genealogies in Genesis, and thenold Earth calculates theirs
with astrology and geology.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
I'm having a hard time with this.
So the calculator app we werejust looking at said that
Abraham's dad, Terah, lived 130years and then begot Abraham and
then lived 75 years after that.
But when I go to the genealogyin Genesis 11, it says that
(13:06):
Genesis 11, 26, and Terah lived70 years and begot Abraham,
Nahor and Haran.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
So somebody's lying, I was going to say let's go off
the Bible.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Let's go off what the Bible says, the.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
B-I-B-L-E.
That's the book for me Becauseit states the age correctly
B-I-B-L-E oh yeah, so, yeah, sowe're going to get into it more.
But something that isinteresting is that Young Earth
(13:44):
believes that dinosaurs livedamong people pre-flood and then
old Earth believes that theylived millions of years before
humans.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Yes, millions of years in different eras.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
But apparently everybody believes that era is
the jurassic era there was acouple of different dinosaur
eras.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
It's just.
Jurassic is made popular becausethe films we had a, we had a
park and a world I know that Iheard the argument like dating
for the world, like the basic,like carbon dating.
Carbon dating yes, I guessspecifically carbon-14 is what
(14:32):
they're looking for is based offof how old the paleontologist
discoveries of dinosaur bonesare right, mm-hmm.
And then it's like okay, okay,well, how do we know how old
those are?
And then the answer to that iswell, we look at what the carbon
dating for the bones are todetermine how old they are.
(14:55):
But that's that's.
My thing is like okay, soyou're using the bones to figure
out how to accurately use quote, unquote accurately, accurately
use carbon dating.
But then you know how old thebones are because you use carbon
dating to date them, right.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong,but that's how it was explained
(15:17):
to me, and to me that doesn'tmake sense.
Like how do you know how thebones are?
Well, we use carbon dating todate them, okay.
How do you know how old thebones are?
Well, we use carbon dating todate them, okay.
How do you know carbon datingis accurate?
Well, because of how old thebones are.
That were.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
So it's just circular thinking to explain something
that's inaccurate.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
I, that's how.
Once again, I don't.
I'm not by any means a smartperson, so, but that's how it
was explained to me, and so Iwas like I don't know.
That just doesn't seem right tome, yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
I mean.
But yeah, based off what you'resaying, it sounds like it's
circular thinking.
It's just like you keep goingaround in them circles thinking
yeah, so a core belief of youngearth is reading Genesis
literally safeguards biblicalauthority, while the core belief
(16:11):
of old earth is science revealsGod's creative majesty without
undermining scripture.
So I think that's something to.
It's important to state againthat either way right or wrong
on both sides it's not likeeither side is trying to
(16:32):
undermine God's authority.
Yeah, it's.
Both sides might not, you know,agree with one another, but at
the end of the day, they bothare, they're both christians and
it's just a viewpoint thatdoesn't, at the end of the day,
affect your salvation yes, Iwould like to bring up, though
(16:53):
that and you guys are gonna it'sgonna be very obvious that I'm
a young earth guy.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
But none of us, and even secular scientists that are
100% on board with evolutionand old earth and do not look to
the Bible as an authority inany way.
They're not Christian, they'rejust secular.
Whatever the science ofevolution and the dating of our
(17:24):
creation of the universe, oflife on our planet, no one
cracked the code until the 1800s.
They will acknowledge that.
So it wasn't until around thetime of Charles Darwin.
He's the one who popularized it.
There was a couple other guys.
Evolution, the one whopopularized it.
There was a couple other guys.
(17:44):
Evolution yeah, that thought ofthis idea of evolution and
darwin's theory of naturalselection is what they were like
.
This is the home run, this iswhat knocks out of the park.
This explains how evolutionworks and this explains how old
the universe is, and this, thatand the other.
(18:05):
And now it's like to a pointnow to where it's like, if you
don't believe or it was for awhile if you don't believe in
evolution, then you're anignorant buffoon who does not
know science, even though, like,the scientific method is not a
(18:25):
means to understand how theuniverse is.
The scientific method is totest something Right.
You collect evidence, you testthe evidence against your
hypothesis and you come to aconclusion.
You can't do that with thebeginning of time because you
(18:49):
can't replicate it.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
Yeah, you can't replicate creation.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
You can't replicate the start of existence.
Well, at least as far as I know, no one has been able to do it.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
Unless they have.
We haven't seen it yet.
Yeah, I don't even know how toexplain that joke.
You know what I mean.
Like I can't take that joke anyfurther.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Yeah, because it's nonsensical but that's one thing
that I did want to bring up isthat the only reason that we're
having this argument about howold the earth is is is it the
young earth 6,000 years age, oris it super old is because of a
(19:31):
secular sign.
Well, maybe he wasn't secular,maybe he did.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
Or somebody outside of Religion.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
Yeah, he was given an alternative to the religious
understanding of the age of theearth.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
Was his intentions to try to disprove?
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Christianity.
I don't know what hisintentions were.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
I didn't know if he specifically said you know my
intentions were here, but youknow.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Yeah, no, my intentions were here, but you
know, yeah, no, I know that hedid a lot of research in the
Galapagos Islands and waslooking at the different, Like
this turtle looks this or, sorry, this tortoise looks this way
and it's in this environment.
And then we hop the next islandover and this tortoise looks a
(20:22):
different way and but they'refrom the same genealogical
family but because of theirenvironment they look different.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Yeah, and like, let me get on that idea of evolution
and Dar um, okay, I believethat Dar uh, evolution and
Darwinism is completely twodifferent things.
Right, when you're just talkinglogically?
Yeah, Because it's like, yes,logically speaking, something
(20:52):
will adapt and evolve to theirenvironment.
That's just common logic, right?
Yeah, but what Charles Darwinimplies is that we there is no
God and that we were not created.
We just evolved from monkeysand that kind of thing.
And it's like I don't knowwhere we got common logic and we
(21:15):
removed it because evolution isadded to that.
Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (21:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
Like yes, evolution is just downright, it.
It's logically.
Something adapts to itsenvironment and over time, its
dna and its gene and gene ingenealogy, genealogy, genealogy
will adapt and change to itsenvironment, right, like, just
for an example, a bird thatneeds to get its beak into a
(21:43):
hole to get a bug will, overtime, down the line of its
ancestry, will eventually grow alonger beak.
That does not mean God doesn'texist.
In fact, I feel like it provesGod's existence even more to
some degree.
Just the beauty of that momentof something changing.
(22:04):
You know what I mean.
If something was created byaccident and didn't have a plan,
I feel like that wouldn't behappening at all.
You know what I mean.
Something would just die.
You know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (22:14):
Not its entire species adapts to continue,
thriving, to continue thrivingWell and my understanding, like
here's the deal, like evolutionthere's some that talk about
that, I guess the microevolution, where a certain animal will
(22:34):
adapt over time to itsenvironment to survive, and then
there are the other.
The other extreme side is likeover millions of years, this
whale will slowly come ashoreand be in eventually.
Over millions of years it'sevolved into a coyote.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
That I don't believe, but I do believe that it is
possible that something did comeout of the water you know that
evolution thing and then slowlyadapted to be on land.
That again does not reflect howus, as people, have changed
over time, and does not say thatGod doesn't exist, though, yeah
(23:15):
see, I'm not in that camp.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
I'm not in that camp.
I'm in the camp of, I think,that things with intentional
intervention you can altercertain things.
Characteristics about animals,meaning like dogs, are the best
example.
You can breed certain dogs nowto each other and get desirable
(23:38):
traits from that dog, but youcouldn't take a dog, at least
from my understanding.
You can't take a dog and throwout in this area and then in a
couple of generations it'sstarting to look more cat-like
because that's what it needed todo to survive.
Like that's not happening, true, within a couple of generations
(23:59):
it will still be a dog.
It will operate as a dog will.
It will have all thecharacteristics of a dog.
The only thing that will havechanged is maybe the color of
the fur, or maybe the size ofthe tail or the ears or the
snout length, like everythingabout its genetic makeup will
remain a dog.
(24:19):
You know its genetic makeupisn't changing.
I'm saying that like I knowgenetic makeup, right, I don't.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
But when I say that something crawled out of the
ocean, right, and now it'ssomething different, I'm not
implying that a whale crawledout and then it turned into a
coyote, like.
It's still going to besomething that is, you know,
water-based.
But it's possible that andhere's a great to me an example
(24:48):
that something that was strictlysomething in the ocean over
time came out, and we see ittoday with tadpoles and frogs.
Yeah, so something that waswater-based does end up coming
out.
So it it's not unheard of thatsomething not necessarily a
whale, but something that was inthe ocean did eventually come
(25:10):
out, but it's still obviouslysomething that can both live on
land and water.
So I mean, and that's just,that's not based in reality or
anything, it's just kind of mythinking and my thought process
on it is all.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
I just don't think so .
I think that the reality of ourworld there are so many animal
species and varieties becausewe're still discovering them
today.
Still discovering them today ina time, in a time in history
where we think we knoweverything about our planet.
(25:47):
We're still discovering things,we're still finding out new
things about old places and wedon't have the majority of our
planet documented.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
What I'm saying to you is that next week they're
going to find a well-sized frogin the ocean.
Yeah, okay, and his name isGodzilla, godzilla, godzilla.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
Yeah, but that's just now, in this sphere where we're
at, not to mention extinctspecies, things that have gone
extinct, that we're not awarethey're extinct because there
was no evidence left of them.
And so whenever anarchaeological dig, or whenever
evidence is discovered, if anyevidence survives, we have to
(26:36):
come up with an entire story forthis thing that we never knew
was around right.
And so now we enter into thedinosaurs.
For the vast majority of humanhistory, they've acknowledged
them as dragons, and so theargument has been that dragons,
you know, were these massivereptilian creatures that were
(26:59):
either harmful or helpful,depending on what culture you
were in, and they would beutilized as a pet animal tool,
or they were a menace to societyand had to be eradicated.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
Let me say this what we see dinosaurs as all we have
ever had for dinosaurs is theirskeletons.
Yes, and so, like how manytimes in the last hundred years
has you know this?
The quote-unquote science comeout and said this is what a
(27:35):
raptor actually looks like.
Yeah, you know what I mean.
It's like what we see insomething like jurassic park is
not what the raptors looked like, because they've come out and
said well, we found that theyhad feathers, you know?
Yeah, so it's like you know.
Have you seen, I think?
Have I shown you the picture ofthe world's worst put together
(27:56):
dinosaur skeleton?
Speaker 2 (27:58):
No, hold on one second Fill time for me while I
look for this well, uh, onething people need to look up is,
on that note of the dinosaursand skeletons.
Just look up skin wrappedanimals yeah this takes animal
skeletons of animals we knowexist today because we've got
their skeletons, and it doeswhat they do with dinosaur bones
(28:19):
.
It it just wraps up what theskeleton looks like and that's
the animal you get and when youcompare it to the actual animal
it belongs to, it looks nothinglike the animal it came from.
Have you uh?
Speaker 1 (28:32):
have you also seen.
It's like you show somebody oh,look at this picture somebody
drew based off of looking at theskeleton of a creature that's
alive today and then, comparedto what it actually looks like
Like, just draw based off ofwhat you think this animal would
(28:53):
be.
And they draw it and they showit.
And it's like somebody drewthis monstrous looking creature
and it's a hippo or a dog, yeah,that kind of stuff, creature,
and it's a hippo or a dog?
Yeah, and you know what I mean?
That kind of stuff.
And it's like well, hold up aminute.
We're sitting here gauging whatsomething looks like or how it
actually interacts with theworld, based off of its skeleton
(29:17):
.
That logically doesn't makesense, because we can prove with
things that we have today thatjust because you see a skeleton
does not mean we know what itlooks like or how it functioned
in the world.
So it sounds like I'm sidingwith you, by the way, but
personally, to get back on topica little bit, I don't feel like
(29:39):
I'm somewhere in the middle.
There's aspects of old Earththat I agree with and aspects of
new Earth that I agree with,like, for example, with
dinosaurs.
They didn't necessarily have tolive with humans, but that
doesn't mean that they weremillions of years separated from
(30:00):
people either.
Yeah, the only thing is, Iwould argue that they were
millions of years separated frompeople either.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
Yeah, the only thing is, I would argue that they did
live with humans, because we'vegot hieroglyphic drawings of
things that look awful, likeskeletons of dinosaurs that we
have today.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
Sure, but we have the same thing.
We have pictures and images ofthese things that are skeletons.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
Yeah, but I'm saying is, if these dinosaurs died off
millions of years ago, why arethe Egyptians writing
hieroglyphs with these creaturesin them?
Speaker 1 (30:33):
But are they the skeletons of the creatures or
actual creatures?
Speaker 2 (30:36):
No, it's a rendition of the creature and it looks
very similar to what we try tosay.
The creature looks like fromthe skeletons that we've dug up.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
So this real quick, and then we can get back to
yours.
This is an image of a dinosaurskeleton put together in 1663.
Oh my gosh.
So describe that to everybody.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
It's essentially a two-legged unicorn is what it
looks like With a long tail.
Essentially, a two-leggedunicorn is what it looks like
With a long tail, with a longtail.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
Yeah, that's pretty rough.
So it's like we don't knowMoral of the story.
We as people have no idea whatwe're doing.
We love, love, love to act likewe know what we're doing all
the time.
So it's just like you can'ttrust something that you get in
a textbook in school becauseit's consistently changing,
(31:27):
because we're alwaysconsistently disproving
something that somebody elsecame up with, which again also
greatly rudes the Bible, becauseit still exists, so separate,
so far separated from the eventsof the Bible, and things are
not changing.
People are trying to change it,but you can't prove that it
(31:52):
needs to be changed.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
Yeah, the only thing we'll have to do a deeper dive
on dinosaurs in a long time, butthat's another thing that was
developed.
The term dinosaur was developedin the 1800s there we go again.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
If you listen to last week, everything's happening in
the 1800s.
Well, that's what I was goingto get with this with old earth
theory.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
It spawns from the darwinism evolution like.
That's where we get the, thepoint where we get to old earth
versus young earth creationism.
It only comes up because of thetheory of evolution.
The theory of evolutionrequires a long and old earth,
long period of time with an oldearth, in order for it to work,
(32:39):
and so they talk about evidencethat they have for it, and so
that's what spirals us into this.
Well, the text of the Bible doesnot support a young earth
creation because of hyperboleand metaphor, and actually
there's some contradictions thatgo into it.
If you take a literal reading ofthe text, then there's no
(33:00):
possible way it supports youngearth.
Blah, blah, blah, blah, allthat stuff.
But the only reason thatthey're bringing that up is
because they believe in an oldearth, and they and the reason
they believe in an old earth isnot because of what they read
from the Bible and not what theytook from historical
(33:20):
inspiration from God to hispeople.
It's because a secular ideologysuggests or declares that the
earth is old, and so they'recoming from the standpoint well,
science has evidence to supportan old earth and so I think
that the earth is old and I'mgoing to disprove the young
(33:44):
earth theory by tearing apartthe bible, uh, the bible
evidence that people wouldtraditionally use.
So I will give to people thatare old earth, you oldies,
creationists.
The book of Genesis, especiallythe creation story, is not a
literal trans.
(34:04):
It's not trying to give abiological like paper on the
evidence of the Hebrews createdall things and they all started
(34:33):
good.
When he created them, they weregood.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
So let me read this because it piggybacks off of
what you're saying, what I havehere.
But when comparing what a dayis in the Bible, right?
Yes, young Earthers believe.
When it says evening andmorning, it's equals to
literally 24 hours, correctBelieves.
(35:02):
Stretching the term day weakensbiblical authority.
And then yom, y-o-m.
Am I saying that right?
Speaker 2 (35:11):
Yom.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
Yom.
Yom in Hebrew can mean day, ageor era, so that is the original
word that's used to describethe day you know, the first day
you know.
God created the heavens and theearth.
Yom Days may represent longepochs or a literary theological
framework, so essentiallysaying that we are almost
(35:35):
mistranslating that word or thatit shouldn't be taken literally
as a day.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
Yeah, the only argument is you're saying that's
the old earth.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
Well, not the only argument.
Just saying, when comparingthose, I got a list of things
that compare to one another.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
Yeah.
So the problem is, when youread it that way, you're saying
that it's saying it's a changingof like, it's a changing of the
time, because you don't justbecause it can be used to be
translated as day, it can alsobe translated as era, or yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
So when it comes to old earth, create creationism,
that yam could be interpreted asnot just essentially don't take
the word day and specificallysay oh my, did you get an
achievement?
Looks like it, nice.
Oh, is your kid?
Xbox is linked to it?
Yeah, nice, but yeah.
(36:29):
So essentially saying that youcan't take the word day
literally as a 24-hour period,but more of.
It's possible that it's a longstretch or a one event, but when
it comes to that, personally,it just seems so much more great
(36:52):
and gives so much more grandeurto God that he did do it in a
24-hour period.
Speaker 2 (36:59):
Yeah, let me read this for you.
Okay, we're in Genesis 1.
Yep, and people will argue withthis and that's totally fine.
I understand, because we'vebeen arguing about it.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
I mean, that's the whole point of this episode is
to argue.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
Yep, actually, we've been arguing about it since the
mid-1800s, mm.
Speaker 1 (37:19):
Real quick fun fact.
Before that, hundreds Realquick fun fact.
Fun fact, by the way.
I meant to say this earlierabout dinosaurs.
Dinosaurs are so new to us ashumans that George Washington
did not know what dinosaurs were, because they weren't
discovered yet.
Speaker 2 (37:40):
I would argue that George Washington knew about the
creatures.
Speaker 1 (37:45):
I'm saying the first fossils were discovered for
modern humans.
Yeah, like you said in the1800s.
Yeah, so George Washington didnot know what a dinosaur was
Dinosaur fossil.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
Yeah, yeah, because the argument I'm making is the
friday.
Yeah, everyone acknowledgeddinosaurs.
They just called them dragons.
And then in the 1800s, a weekstarted labeling them as
dinosaurs.
And if you take evolution andyou say that dinosaurs didn't
exist when humans did, then ityeah, they wouldn't have known
(38:21):
what they look like.
But then you have to say allstories of dragons are myth
because they're giant reptilesand there's no way that giant
reptiles lived when humans livedI could tell you right now
there's no such thing as aflying dinosaur, yeah, so, yeah,
that was a joke, there's flyingdinosaurs, yeah, yeah
(38:43):
pterodactyls.
Anyways, let's get into the text.
So we're talking about.
You use the.
So the argument is yom does notnecessarily mean literal day.
It can be translated to mean aspan of time.
This is how the text reads whenit's translated given.
(39:05):
But it says we'll start inverse 3.
Of Genesis, Genesis 1.
And God said let there be light.
And there was light.
And God saw the light, that itwas good, and God divided the
light from the darkness and Godcalled the light day, and the
(39:26):
yom and the darkness he callednight.
And the evening and the morningwere the first yom day.
And God said let there be afirmament in the midst of the
waters and let it divide thewaters from the waters.
And God made the firmament anddivided the waters which were
(39:48):
under the firmament from thewaters which were above the
firmament.
And it was so, and God calledthe firmament heaven, and the
evening and the morning were thesecond day, and it keeps going,
or the second yom.
So it's either each progressionof creation is a different era
(40:12):
in time or it's each day of thecreation cycle of six days, or
you're mixing and matching.
Speaker 1 (40:21):
No, just those days were a lot longer back then yeah
, but here's the thing is.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
Genesis is not directly addressing the idea of
is the earth millions of yearsold or is this happening in a
span of a week?
Creation, because no one at thetime that it's being written
has an issue with the earthbeing created in a week it's
(40:50):
only now that we create an issuethat we have to solve it yeah,
mankind is so saturated inphilosophy and the intellectual
pursuit of knowledge because ofthe enlightenment era they put a
massive emphasis on the pursuitof knowledge and understanding
(41:13):
them.
We need an explanation foreverything that the supernatural
almost sounds fairy tale-ishand shouldn't be taken seriously
.
So, god, so somethingsupernatural like a six day time
span of everything coming intoexistence?
(41:34):
It's just for some reason nowthat seems too good to be true
and it's fairy tale ish and fakeand a mythos.
But for ancient peoples, I mean, creation stories were
relatively short.
You know, it was like and thisGod did this thing and boom,
(41:55):
this happened because of whatthis God did.
And then this God did thisthing and boom, this happened.
And so it wasn't like it tookme.
They didn't address it and saythat over millions of years,
this is how this developed.
They said because this God didthis, we have this.
That's how they understoodcreation.
And the creation story ofGenesis is saying there's only
(42:18):
one God and he did it all and hedid it all.
And in the beginning, when hedid it all, it was good, it was
not chaotic, it was not evil, itwas not done in contradiction
of somebody else to vie forpower.
All of it was created for hispleasure and he found and saw
that it was good.
And it wasn't until sin, thedefiance and disobedience of God
(42:44):
, came into the world.
That then God saw and said thatit is bad.
Speaker 1 (42:52):
Pull up Exodus 20, 11 for me and read that out loud.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
All right.
Exodus 20, verse 11 says whatjust happened.
My translation went over to mySpanish translation.
Read it in Spanish Do you wantit in the KJV or the ESV?
Let's go with ESV on this one.
Okay, fair enough.
All right, let's redo this realquick because no one's going to
(43:20):
understand.
All right, maybe peopleunderstand.
We've got an internationalaudience.
It'll be some spanish-speakingpeople maybe, maybe all right.
Exodus 2011 says for in sixdays, the lord made heaven and
earth, the sea and all that isin them, and rested on the
seventh day, therefore.
(43:40):
Therefore, the Lord blessed theSabbath day and made it holy.
Speaker 1 (43:47):
So young earth, based off of using that verse, says
that that supports a literalweek.
Yes, humans rest because Godliterally created in six days,
correct.
At least I believe that Good,good Old earth believers see it
as a theological parallel.
Sabbath patterns doesn'trequire literal 24 hour creation
(44:11):
days.
Yom brother, yom Yom.
Speaker 2 (44:20):
Yeah, Yom brother, yom Yom, yeah, and I would I
mean everyone that's going tolike get into the old earth,
young earth argument.
They're going to know this, butthe author of Exodus is the
same author of Genesis.
It's not two different guyswriting two different books.
Speaker 1 (44:38):
I would argue that they were all written by God.
Speaker 2 (44:41):
They're all divinely inspired by God.
Speaker 1 (44:47):
You always have an answer to my joke that just
shuts down Like how dare youmake a joke?
We got to take this serious.
Speaker 2 (44:56):
No, but yeah, I understand what you're saying.
I'm sorry, yeah, and on theseventh yom, on the seventh yom,
on the seventh yom, on theseventh yom, he rested.
Speaker 1 (45:08):
That's why I take long periods and do nothing,
months at a time or regardlessor not of if you believe in the
old earth evolution.
Speaker 2 (45:31):
The translation of the text is taken literally that
we should rest on the seventhday of the week because the
historical practice of JudaismJudaism is that they work for
six days and they rest on theseventh holy day, which is
Sabbath.
So even though you're, you know, thousands of years removed
(45:55):
from the writing of the text andyou're saying that it doesn't
necessarily mean a literal sevendays, the response to that is
tell that to all of thereligious practicing Christians
and Jews who've been doing itliteral seven days for thousands
(46:19):
of years, because that's howthey've understood it.
They've practiced Sabbath as aseventh day rest because God
rested from his creation work onthe seventh day of his creation
cycle.
Talk all day in the in therealm of philosophy about it not
(46:46):
necessarily being a literaldeal.
The problem is is the practiceof the truth?
Has been a literal seven days?
Speaker 1 (46:55):
you want to talk about the flood.
New earth, young earthersbelieve that it's a catastrophic
global event.
Explains fossil layers, rapidgeological features like the
Grand Canyon, and coral deposits, not coral coal deposits, coal
(47:16):
deposits.
I need to learn how to read.
Speaker 2 (47:19):
I think they talk about that for gas as well, like
the oil, oil.
Speaker 1 (47:24):
Remember get the fart out of your heart gas.
Yeah, yeah, yep, yep uh no.
Oil deposits and coal depositsare because of a mass extinction
event which we can talk to uh'mgoing to go into in just a
second but for old earth theybelieve that it's likely.
(47:48):
The flood is likely a local orregional event in Mesopotamia.
Speaker 2 (47:53):
Mesopotamia.
Speaker 1 (47:55):
Fossils and geology reflect long ages, not a single
flood, which I feel like wouldgo against the Bible.
Like we're here saying that,like one side or the other, does
not affect your core belief.
But to say that God did notactually do what he said he did.
I flooded the earth, you knowwhat I mean.
(48:16):
And just to say, oh, it's justa bunch of small water floods
sounds to me like that isactually going against what we
should believe.
Speaker 2 (48:28):
Yeah, Every, maybe not every, but most ancient
cultures we've been able to see,we've been able to discover
that they have a flood story.
We've been able to discoverthat they have a flood story.
and all these ancient culturesbelieve it to be a global,
(48:48):
global catastrophic catastrophicevent that only one character
survives because he makes an arcand survives this global cat.
Well, they don't say globalbecause they don't know that the
world's a globe, but they sayit.
Their existence, everything,yeah, is flooded.
So, you know, I guess I couldget behind it.
(49:25):
All of society has to come outof wherever this regional global
event, wherever this regionalflood event, regional global,
wherever this we're currentlyregional global guys wherever
this regional flood eventhappened it seems that all of
society stems from, it, comesout of it Because, like all
(49:52):
cultures share this story, andso either all of humanity comes
from this one ancestor whosurvives this flood event at
least that's what it would seemin my mind.
Maybe I'm wrong, but that's whatit would seem or it's the
(50:13):
entire world is flooded andnoah's the only one who makes it
out, and the explanation forall the things that we're
discovering are a rapid floodevent happens, and that's what
fossilizes things and that'swhat causes the erosion evidence
(50:33):
that we have, and that's whatcauses the example of the earth
that we have today is because ofthe way that the waters receded
after the flood.
So, yeah, that's what's in mymind.
Speaker 1 (50:50):
Thinking about it, I could be wrong, though let's
talk about those dinosaurs realquick, because you talked about
this catastrophic, youextinction level event, right?
What are we talking about whenwe talk about that extension?
Extinction level event, talkabout dinosaurs yeah, so young
(51:13):
earthers believe that dinosaurswere created on the day six with
the humans.
Do you believe that?
Speaker 2 (51:21):
dinosaurs were created on day six yeah, with
humans.
Speaker 1 (51:24):
Yeah, yeah, you think so I think so yeah, they lived
alongside mankind, extinct afterafter the flood, and survived
as dragons.
Some cryptids, like the lochness monster, are cited as
possible survivors.
Speaker 2 (51:42):
Yeah, I was going to say I don't think they went
extinct after the flood.
Speaker 1 (51:46):
Yeah, this is a little interesting, a little bit
contradictory, a little bit toa degree.
So, oh wait, so you don't thinkthey died in the flood.
Speaker 2 (51:59):
I think that dinosaurs died.
A vast majority of dinosaursdied in the flood, but I think
there were dinosaurs on the arkand when the waters receded,
everything came off the ark.
So dinosaurs came off the ark.
Speaker 1 (52:12):
Is that how we got chickens?
No, Well, supposedly chickensare descendants of T-Rexes.
That's the reason why I madethat joke.
Speaker 2 (52:24):
Yeah, I know that.
Yeah, I see those a lot, butyeah, I don't I think that
dinosaurs lived well into theyou could say dark ages is what
it would seem could say, um,dark ages is what it would seem.
Speaker 1 (52:48):
So old earth believes that dinosaurs lived millions
of years before humans and wentextinct 65 million years ago and
fossils fit geologic timescales.
Dragons are myth and legend.
I I do.
I kind of more lean, like Isaid, probably more young earth,
but I think that even theideology of old earth to some
(53:10):
degree could be applied to somedegree.
You know what I mean like tosay the.
Well, I don't have an examplenow that I thought I did.
Like the dinosaurs, for example, yeah, right it.
I feel like it could be thatthey might not have necessarily
lived alongside humans, but notseparated, like I said before,
(53:31):
by those millions and millionsof years, but like hundreds of
years okay and so our you knowagain, our carbon dating.
Dating can be wrong when itcomes to that.
You know, yeah.
Yeah To the millions, Becausewe can't even know how to put a
fossil together correctly.
You know, yeah.
And then we thought thatraptors were giant man-eating
(53:57):
lizards.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (53:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (53:58):
So I mean, but that's just my opinion, you know, sure
, I feel like there's like Imean, but that's just my opinion
, you know, sure, I feel likethere's, like you know, a middle
ground to it, like, yeah, notto the extreme of both one way
or another old Earth or youngEarth, yeah, I think.
Speaker 2 (54:14):
When it comes to dinosaurs, I think that the
reason we don't have them aroundanymore is because of that.
I think that— we hunted themdown and ate them all I think
they were hunted to extinctionbecause of different reasons
depending on the region, but Imean the black I think it's
either the white or the blackrhino does not exist in the wild
(54:36):
anymore, so whenever the onesin the zoos die out, it will be
extinct completely.
Whales sperm whales almost wentcompletely extinct due to the
whaling operation.
Before we found coal and oil,that was the predominant fuel
(54:58):
source for lights and stuff oillamps.
Speaker 1 (55:04):
Yeah, completely off topic, but it reminded me.
Are you still down to go huntwhales this weekend?
Yeah, let's go.
Speaker 2 (55:10):
All right, perfect Side note.
But I'm just saying I'm not abiologist.
I'm sure that someone elsecould bring up more examples of
animals that have went extinctwithin the history of man, Right
the documentable extinctionsMeaning we've only been
(55:34):
examining and monitoring thelives of different species of
animals and cataloging thatinformation.
Speaker 1 (55:42):
And only really the ones that are currently alive.
Speaker 2 (55:47):
Or have recently went extinct.
Everything else we've kind ofjust tried to gather as much
information we can, but becausethey've already went extinct
before we started thedocumentation process you know
it's up to.
But that's what I would sayabout dinosaurs.
People say that they'remillions of years old.
(56:07):
But what if they're not?
What if the only reason that wehave evidence for the dinosaurs
and all these prehistoricmegafauna creatures is because
of a global event that happenedthat fossilized all these
different creatures bones, youknow their remains which could
(56:31):
be the flood and, like you said,dinosaurs were on the ark yeah,
or could have been I.
They were.
I firmly believe that they wereand, once again, like I, I
think that the mystery ofhistory, so everything that we
get from folklore and these talltales, it's not just something
(56:55):
completely conjured.
Like someone didn't just out ofnowhere, with no context, of a
massive reptilian-like creature,created a massive
reptilian-like creature, likethey had to base it off of
something that they understoodor saw, and so what was it?
You know, like even things thatwe do create, that are totally
(57:22):
made up, the attributes of thosethings are based off of living
things around us.
You know, like, take theexample this is maybe not the
best example, but take theexample of the Slenderman right,
totally fictional, correct.
However, all of the attributesof the Slenderman are humanoid
(57:49):
and demonic, things that alreadyexist, things that already
exist, and so it's not bringingsomething new.
That was incomprehensible untilthe creation of this one thing.
Speaker 1 (58:02):
So what you're saying is they had to base these
things off of something that wasreal.
Speaker 2 (58:08):
Correct.
So either they're taking thesmall little lizards they would
find rummaging around anddrumming it up to like oh yeah,
they were way big, oh massive,massive or they were massive
reptilian creatures that werebeing hunted for the sake of you
know, making yourself noble andproud.
Speaker 1 (58:30):
Did they breathe fire ?
Speaker 2 (58:31):
I don't know, maybe, maybe, I mean there's Did they
fly.
There's documentation of ashrimp-like creature in the
ocean that can cause anexplosion from its body.
There's like a beetle that cancause sparks to come out of its
body from doing.
I don't remember what it does,but it does.
I mean there's creatures thatcan can produce massive amounts
(58:54):
of bursts of energy.
You know, yeah.
So why could?
Why not?
Speaker 1 (59:00):
why not?
Why not?
It's just like and just kind offictionalized to some degree,
the scale of what it was doingit at yeah.
Speaker 2 (59:08):
Another thing to consider.
The Bible talks about a dragonand it's Satan, and so, if you
take the supernatural aspect ofthis, not all dragons maybe,
maybe not all dragons weredemonic, but maybe demonic
(59:30):
manifestations occur in dragonform.
So we have to think about do webelieve that demonic entities
can manifest in a tangible way,or are they limited to just
spiritual anomalies of like yousaw something out of the corner
(59:55):
of your eye, you hear thingswhen you see something in the
corner of your eye, it's adinosaur.
Yeah, but what if something veryphysical that you can touch
appears out of nowhere and doesvery physical things and there's
not really a good explanationoutside of a spiritual
(01:00:19):
manifesting in front of you inthe physical?
So that's another rabbit trailwe could go down, and we will
Next week on the Saints, butokay, so here's an example the
Asiatic lion.
Okay, it's still around today,but it's only in one area, in
(01:00:43):
India Now.
It used to be all over Pakistanand the Mesopotamian area, like
Turkey and Iran and everythinglike that used to roam those
places, but because the ancientBabylonians and Persians looked
at it as a feat of strength, away for their Kings to deify
(01:01:04):
themselves, was to kill a lion.
They would hunt these lions forsport, to the point where the
Asiatic lion has undergone amassive, almost extinction level
.
And now, when it used to roamall of these areas of the
Northern Middle East and intoAsia, now it's really only in
(01:01:26):
one area and into Asia now it'sreally only in one area, a very
condensed area.
So there's things like that.
Like you know, if the practiceshad continued, the Asiatic line
would be totally extinct.
And that's what I would sayabout dragons is they were
hunted to extinction, I wouldsay that there is an attachment
(01:01:51):
to the glory of what it was tobe for to dominate it to destroy
a lie, to destroy a dragon, andso people went out of their way
.
Speaker 1 (01:01:59):
I mean you see it in in you know, european fairy
tales all the time of having tohunt down the dragon, because
it's a thing that needs to bekilled, correct?
Speaker 2 (01:02:08):
and here's here's another example the american
bison almost did not make it,yeah, and the reason is they
slaughtered hundreds ofthousands of them for no, no
good reason, but they werehungry.
They didn't eat the meat.
They literally slaughtered themand left them out to die bro,
(01:02:31):
have you ever killed a bisonbefore?
The thrill man, the thrill ohyeah no I did it for the thrill
and that's so mad.
So beavers, bisons and beaversgot it north.
(01:02:56):
The beavers in north americaalmost went extinct because they
were hunting them for their fur, because they made the optimal.
There was an iconic europeanEuropean.
Everybody wanted a beaver furhat and so they killed an insane
amount of beavers to meet thedemand for the hats, to the
(01:03:21):
point where the beavers almostdidn't make it.
The only thing that saved thebeavers were the hats went out
of style.
That's the only thing thatsaved the beavers.
Too bad it didn't go out ofstyle to hunt down the bison for
the out of style.
Speaker 1 (01:03:30):
Jeez.
That's the only thing thatsaved the people.
Too bad.
It didn't go out of style tohunt down the bison for the
thrill of it.
Speaker 2 (01:03:35):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, there we go.
Speaker 1 (01:03:39):
Sorry, that is.
I want a shirt now and it'sjust somebody killing a bison
and it just says I'm doing itfor the thrill.
Speaker 2 (01:03:48):
I'm doing it for the thrill, for the thrill of it,
geez.
Speaker 1 (01:03:51):
Oh man, all right.
Do you have anything else?
On old earth versus new earthum, not really.
Speaker 2 (01:03:59):
Like I said, I'm sure that someone could come up with
a much better argument for oldearth and I would be like, oh
wow, I've never thought aboutthat before yeah, but do people
really come to this podcast forfacts or do they come to the
podcast for the same boys Forthe thrilling energy?
For the thrill of the boys, ohyeah.
Speaker 1 (01:04:22):
That's just going to be.
My thing now is like introing.
Speaker 2 (01:04:24):
Welcome to the thrilling episode of Seize the
Zer Podcast.
Yeah, I totally forgot, oh,forgot, oh, oh yeah.
So the biggest thing I get hungup on, like I said, biggest
thing I get hung up on with thiscreation back and forth is if
you did not know about evolutionand you did not know the
(01:04:49):
requirements for it and you justread the bible, you would
assume through the reading ofthe text that creation happened
in a literal seven days.
You would not say, uh, oh, it'sambiguous.
You know it could be millionsof years, it could be thousands
of years.
It's just, it's just done a lotof time.
(01:05:12):
You know you would read it couldbe millions of years, it could
be thousands of years, it's justan allotted time.
You know you would read it andbe like, oh wow, creation
happened in seven days.
And then you bring in the.
Well, no, the Earth couldpotentially be millions of years
old.
And so that word that says dayactually could be translated
another way to say a time period.
So there you go could betranslated another way to say a
time period.
So there you go the earth isactually old, because all
(01:05:33):
science that we've put into thisis saying that the earth is old
, so that's my argument there.
Speaker 1 (01:05:40):
It's been practiced as create the creation story is
a literal seven days, andhistorically it's been practiced
that way up until the 1800s andhere's my kind of like, also
supportive statement, becauseI'm not arguing with you, I'm
supporting you is that godblatant like not blatantly but
(01:06:04):
directly says what it is?
Yeah, and god doesn't work inmystery or or confusion.
Speaker 2 (01:06:11):
If he tells you something, it's going to be what
it is yeah, I don't have theverse for you here right now,
but it does say that you know,the mysteries of god are
confounding to man and theknowledge of God like seems like
foolishness to man.
(01:06:32):
Right, but man's knowledge isfoolishness when you compare it
against God's knowledge.
And that's because we're in acorrupted, sinful state and we
need the salvation that onlycomes through Jesus Christ to be
able to be put back into rightstanding with the creator of the
(01:06:52):
universe.
Because we all have to agree onthat Whether you're a young
earth or an old earth individual, you have to acknowledge that
God is the creator of it all,otherwise you're not a Christian
.
God has to be the creator ofall things and you have to
acknowledge that it's because ofman that sin came into the
(01:07:16):
world, and we need the atonementof Christ to be redeemed, to be
in good standing with God again, so that we can truly begin to
understand the mysteries of thisearth that we're on.
You know, we see in part rightnow, but eventually all things
will be revealed.
(01:07:36):
That's what the scripture says,and so I think that maybe
having an open hand on thisdebate, you know, is where we
need to be.
But whenever it comes to adebate and you look at the two
(01:07:58):
sides.
Which side gives more glory toGod?
Speaker 1 (01:08:03):
Right, which I had said that earlier.
It's like what sounds moremagnificent and glorifying to
the creator and it would be newearth yeah, I would.
Speaker 2 (01:08:15):
I would say that the young earth does, and my
argument for it is is becauseeveryone acknowledged that as
fact up until someone had tohave a separate opinion someone
had an opinion that, oh well, itseems like it would take a long
time for the development ofthese animals to develop in the
(01:08:35):
way that they did, so the worldcouldn't possibly be as young as
we say it is, so it has to beold, and yeah, so that's what I
would say, but prove me wrongpeople.
All right, you heard him.
You heard him right here rightnow In the comment section,
(01:08:58):
argue with us about this veryspecific topic random people
that are in the sciencecommunity coming out talking
about how old earth creation islosing standing in the field of
(01:09:19):
science, because the more thatthey begin to understand about
different things, processes youknow, genetics biology, all of
it, processes, genetics biology,all of it.
It would seem to say that thepinnacle of evolution of just
(01:09:41):
chance, of random whateverdoesn't hold up and at the core
there has to be intelligentdesign.
And then, even then, nowthere's more people starting to
say like, well, it seems likethe young earth stance that
creationists have held tosupports some of these areas in
science.
So, you know, it's like sciencealmost came up with a standard
(01:10:02):
saying like, hey, this is whatwe're interpreting some
information to say and so thisis the truth, this is fact.
And creation, young earth,creation by an all-powerful God,
is mythos and not fact.
And now, as science continuesand people continue to gain
(01:10:23):
understanding, they start to,you know, have a softer grip on
hey, evolution is fact, and arekind of opening their hand a
little bit and saying like, well, maybe it's not, maybe there's
intelligence on.
Speaker 1 (01:10:38):
So all, right, I'm done seriously all right,
awesome.
Well, thank you everybody forjoining us on this wonderful
episode 49 of the saints thatserve podcast do lady lady we
did it lady.
We did it lady.
Yeah, all right, so is that allyou have?
Speaker 2 (01:10:57):
I have one last thing for us to remember.
Okay, are you ready?
Yes, just remember that alsoremember.
Speaker 1 (01:11:08):
get that fart out of your heart so you can put Jesus
there.
So you can put Jesus there.
Speaker 2 (01:11:14):
That's what we said, right.
Speaker 1 (01:11:15):
Yeah, that's what we said.
Okay, all right.
So Christ is Lord and thekingdom is now.
Speaker 2 (01:11:20):
We are the saints that serve.
Speaker 1 (01:11:45):
Get that fart out of your heart.
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