Episode 51 - Dinosaurs and Faith

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Dinosaurs spark wonder, but how do they fit into the Bible’s story of creation? In this episode, we explore the evidence that dinosaurs and humans may have lived side by side. Ancient cultures worldwide described “dragons,” from Chinese legends to temple carvings in Cambodia, that closely resemble dinosaurs. The Bible itself mentions powerful creatures like Behemoth and Leviathan - descriptions that echo real prehistoric giants.

We dive into young earth creation perspectives, global flood accounts, and how dinosaurs reflect God’s creative power. Join us as we uncover the surprising connection between dinosaurs, Scripture, and faith.

 #DinosaursAndTheBible #BiblicalCreation #YoungEarth #DragonsAndDinosaurs #BehemothAndLeviathan #FaithAndScience #CreationVsEvolution #BiblicalTruth #SaintsThatServe #ChristianPodcast #BibleStudy #FaithJourney #ChristianLiving #JesusChrist #GospelTruth

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 2 (00:02):
Welcome to the Saints that Serve, podcast where, each
week, your hosts dive into thecrossroads of faith, culture and
the unknown.

Speaker 1 (00:15):
Christ is Lord and the kingdom is now.
We are the Saints that Serve.
Welcome everybody to the Saintsthat Serve.

Speaker 2 (00:42):
Podcast, podcast we're just getting right into it
aren't we, that's the Saintsthat Serve podcast, that's right
.

Speaker 1 (00:51):
Episode 51.
51, baby, I can't believe it.
51.
We made it past 50.
If you didn't listen, last weekwe talked about the end times,
the end of days.
That's right, the end of days.
So if you want to go back andlisten to that, you can.

(01:11):
But really you should be reallypaying attention to this
episode because you're listeningto it right now yeah, and
really pay attention to nextweek's episode, that is, episode
52, and that is our one-yearanniversary of the podcast.
That's right.
We are going to have a speciallong episode.

(01:32):
I don't know how long long iswe're going to get started and
wherever it takes us, it takesus there Because the peek behind
the curtain.
We haven't quite recorded ityet and we'll get there, but
we're going to get it done.
We're going to get it way done,way before the episode airs.
Heck, yeah, baby, it's going tobe edited, it's going to be
beautiful, but we're going tohave so many guests on that

(01:54):
episode, it's going to beglorious.
That's the goal.
That's the goal of beingglorious.
Yeah, the goal is to beglorious.
That's right.
No, the goal is to bring gloryto the glory one.
Amen, glorious one.
That's right.
And then and his name is Jesus,just in case you didn't know,
just so you, if this is yourfirst episode and are confused

(02:14):
about who we are, it's aboutJesus.
It's always about Jesus, that'sright.
But, speaking of Jesus, everysingle Friday we pray for you.
Yep, we call it Pray For youFriday.
It's really clever, isn't it?
Ingenious, ingenious.
So every Friday we pray for you.
So, if you want, you can sendus your prayer request to

(02:40):
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If you want to keep it private,or if you want everybody to
pray for you, leave it down inthe comments.
We also have a link in thebottom of the description of
this episode, in all episodesthat will you'll be able to send
us an sms text message.
Yes, and then also, we are onall social media.

(03:02):
That is relevant.
Yeah, I was going to say we'renot on MySpace or Zynga.
Yeah, we're on Facebook,instagram, twitter.

Speaker 2 (03:11):
We're not on TikTok, though, so I don't know if
that's still relevant or not.

Speaker 1 (03:17):
We kind of chose not to, because around the time that
we were making decisions onsocial media was the TikTok ban
was happening.
Yeah, and it technically, to myunderstanding, with the law.
So they are still trying to banit, and what Trump did only
postponed the ban.
So it could still happen.

(03:37):
Yeah, okay, so we could be onTikTok, but then we could also
immediately disappear.
So we could be on TikTok, butthen we could also immediately
disappear.
Plus, I feel like on TikTok itwouldn't even be like the
episode stuff.
I feel like it would just be usbeing goofy in the real world
Goofy, bomb goofy.
That's just what we are.

(03:58):
We're goofy guys who love theLord.
That's right.
But anyways, that's all theannouncements I've got.
Yeah, do you have anyannouncements?

Speaker 2 (04:08):
No, that's it.
Really, the big thing we gotgoing on is episode 52.
That's right.
Like we want everybody, we wantas many people to tune in and
we want as many people to shareepisode 52 when it comes out,
because that will be ourone-year mark.
Like it's a big deal.

Speaker 1 (04:23):
It is a really big deal.
Like you don't see, a lot ofshows get past that one year
mark and we were on time everysingle Monday, except one time.
Except one time, and that isnot counting all our bonus
content.
Yeah, it's weird because Ithink that we have 11 pieces of

(04:44):
bonus content on the RSS feed,which is like the podcast apps
and whatnot, and that's notcounting our live streams.
So hours upon hours of contentfor this show Riveting.

Speaker 2 (05:01):
I dare to say Riveting, riveting content.
That's right.
So yeah, I'm ready to get intothe main topic.
If you are, I am.

Speaker 1 (05:09):
So, tyler, this is your transition Into what we
already Hinted at At thebeginning of the show Dinosaurs.
Sorry, not the movie dinosaurs,no, I was.

Speaker 2 (05:22):
Oh, I thought you had A specific way you were gonna
say no, I was gonna do.

Speaker 1 (05:24):
I thought you had a specific way you were going to
say it.
No, I was going to do you, Iwas just pausing for dramatic
effect Way to go.
Okay go ahead.

Speaker 2 (05:31):
Dinosaurs.

Speaker 1 (05:34):
But yeah, and again, not the movie Dinosaurs, though
we can talk about that movie, wecan bring it up, but just
dinosaurs in general.
People like dinosaurs.
Right, people do like dinosaurs.
So we kind of a couple weeksago, when we were talking about
the flat Earth versus the roundEarth, yeah.

Speaker 2 (05:52):
We started getting into dinosaurs.

Speaker 1 (05:56):
Did you catch on to what I said?
Yeah, okay, just making sureToo late.

Speaker 2 (06:00):
It took me a long time, way too long for you.
I just kept going.
I was like wait a minute, I'lljust roll with it.

Speaker 1 (06:05):
Yeah, yeah, flat earthers, no.
Young earth versus new earththeory, which, within the young
earth theory, they believe thathumans lived alongside dinosaurs
.
So we kind of talked about thata little bit and then decided
let's just talk about dinosaursin general.
So we're no, talked about thata little bit and then decided
let's just talk about dinosaursin general.
Yeah, so we're no experts, no,you know what would be?

Speaker 2 (06:30):
another fun episode.
We've talked about the time ofthe Earth.
We should do the shape of theEarth.

Speaker 1 (06:36):
Do you want to do a flat, actual, real, flat Earth?

Speaker 2 (06:38):
Flat Earth versus hollow Earth, versus globe Earth
.
Let's do it and just do allthree of them and debate the
validity of each.

Speaker 1 (06:47):
I'm down okay look out for episode 53, the round
earth episode the what shape isthe earth episode.
Yeah, we're just gonna call itshapes, shapes love it, but yeah
, we're, uh, we're not dinosaurexperts at all.
But do you know who is adinosaur expert?
Jesus, no, your son, oh.

Speaker 2 (07:11):
I mean who is sitting ?

Speaker 1 (07:12):
right next to you right now.
Jesus is more of a dinosaurexpert he is, but your son is
also a dinosaur expert, who wehave asked to come onto the show
Yep and give us some dinosaurfacts.

Speaker 2 (07:25):
And for this episode exclusively.
He is Littlefoot.

Speaker 1 (07:28):
And if you don't get that reference, get out, get out
of your own house, get out, getout of your own phone.

Speaker 2 (07:37):
Yeah, your car.
Whatever you're using to listento this, lock your phone, put
it in an envelope and mail it.
To what was it?
1672 Pennsylvania Avenue.

Speaker 1 (07:49):
Mail it to the president.
So, Littlefoot, can you give usa dinosaur fact?
The T-Rex's bite force was over1070 pounds close, close.

Speaker 2 (08:09):
What is the exact?
12 000 12 800 pounds, which iscrazy to think right yeah, yeah,
because what's like the, whatis the number one animal that
you think of when you think likethe most intense, like force,

(08:32):
like force, like, I don't know,like a crocodile or an alligator
.
Right, that's what you that's,that's what I think of, right?
So, uh, crocodile.
So a crocodile bite force isaround 3,700 pounds per square
inch or 16,460 newtons,whichever one you use.

Speaker 1 (08:58):
So if you got bit by a T-Rex, it would be like four
crocodiles it would be like fourcrocodiles.

Speaker 2 (09:09):
Yeah, it would be.

Speaker 1 (09:09):
It would be the somewhat of the equivalent of
four times the power of acrocodile's bite, which you see
happen, like they have thatdeath roll, like they grab a
hold of you, like their biteforce, like is strong, but with
crocodiles what gets you is theyget a hold of you and they just
start rolling in the water.

Speaker 2 (09:23):
Yeah, like essentially they're trying to
like twist off whatever they'vebitten down on well, because,
like the, the way that their jawthis is my understanding, the
way that their jaw is structuredand works, is that it's a
locking mechanism.
Once it snaps down, it locks,and the death roll idea is that

(09:44):
you're not getting loose fromthe bite, and so they're going
to keep on rolling you and,essentially, waterboard you.
Yeah, because you're in thewater Until you drowned.
But, ironically, if you can geta crocodile's mouth shut, all
you got to do is grab it withyour hands.

Speaker 1 (10:00):
Because it has the downward force Correct, not the
opening force.
All of the muscles are goingtowards the downward force.

Speaker 2 (10:05):
Correct, not the opening force.
All of the muscles are goingtowards the downward bite.

Speaker 1 (10:08):
Yeah, so if you ever see, like those crazy stunts on
YouTube, like people will grabthe top of a dinosaur's mouth
and pull back and they're ableto hold back a dinosaur like not
a dinosaur a crocodile,crocodile and pull it back and
hold it back because it can'topen its mouth Like easily as
biting Crocodile and pull itback and hold it back because it
can't open its mouth Likeeasily as biting Well, they

(10:29):
wouldn't be able to hold it backbecause they would be able to
force it down.
I got a video to show you laterthen, because I've seen exactly
this in it.

Speaker 2 (10:37):
Yeah, and another thing is crocodiles, and
alligators are technicallyliving dinosaurs, right well
yeah, but I was gonna saythey're two very different
things oh, that too yes like thecrocodile.
There's different kinds ofcrocodiles but they're more
aggressive than alligators likeit amazes me.

(11:00):
Have you seen, I mean, anyonewho's on the internet watching
videos and stuff?
It's almost like a night andday difference.
Like you see a crocodile andit's like on the Nile, so it's
like in Africa people arerunning, you know, from it, or
it's like super aggressivetowards other animals by it.
And then you go and you see theFlorida alligator and like it's

(11:23):
a guy like cuddling it andwalking it through the water,
Like yeah, you know, it's justtwo different things.
It's crazy Okay.

Speaker 1 (11:30):
So you see these videos of people like bonding
with these wild animals that youdon't normally think are is
something that could bedomesticated or tamed.
Do you believe that those arereal in the sense of like?
Okay, like you said, a guy likeis spending time in bonding

(11:51):
with an alligator in the water,or somebody has like a, like a
bear or like a or a pet lion ortiger in their house, right?
Do you think that these animalstruly see oh, oh, I am a
domesticated animal.
Or is it like they just see I'mnot attacking you now because

(12:12):
I'm not mad at you you provideme food, like you know that kind
of thing?
Do you think that they actuallyhave an attachment for their
owner?

Speaker 2 (12:20):
I would say this is my opinion.
I am in the camp of, it's adominion mindset.
So, like in the dominion of thewild, the instincts are like
the guiding compass for allanimals.
So for crocodiles, alligators,lions, tigers, it's all about

(12:45):
survival and the survival of thefittest.
So you'll see, like a younger,more aggressive tiger will be
more willing to fight anotherrival tiger for control of
territory or for food orwhatever.
But a older tiger who's comingup on the end of its life, it's

(13:06):
less eager to get into a fightbecause it's not as strong and
it's just that instinct knowsthat it could not make it out of
the fight.
Kind of a deal.
But you get into the dominionof man where man rules over the
dinosaur.
Not dinosaur Rules over theseanimals like tigers and

(13:27):
alligators and things.
They've created a regimen forthe animal.
So the animals know whenfeeding time is, depending on
how disciplined the owner is.
But these animals would knowwhen feeding time is.
They've been conditioned to thepresence, the immediate
presence, of human.

Speaker 1 (13:45):
See, that's the thing is in the wild, not a companion
, but just almost like a servant, maybe.

Speaker 2 (13:51):
No, you don't think so.
The condition is this is notstrange, this is normal In the
wild.
The human scent is strange, andso they're frightened and they
go immediate into the fight orflight mode.
That's why it's a problem, likein certain areas where there's
a lot of humans but the animalsare still feral, where there's a

(14:13):
little bit more of a combativeside, like with bears and
elastos.

Speaker 1 (14:18):
So it's not that it's been tamed, but it's just calm.

Speaker 2 (14:22):
It's not afraid anymore, like it's been
conditioned to the scent ofhumans to where it doesn't.
And animal attacks come fromfear Sometimes, but it depends
on the animal, because this iswhere I'm getting at with, like
the grizzlies in Alaska, if it'san area where there's a lot of
humans and the grizzlies havegotten used to the scent,
they're no longer looking at thehumans as a threat, they're

(14:42):
looking at them as a food source, because everything to a
grizzly bear is a food source,because it's the apex predator
for its area, gotcha, andwhenever it doesn't feel the
need to feed because it'ssatisfied with its food, like if
it's like in captivity then ifit's conditioned to the human

(15:03):
scent and it knows like, hey,this is, this is how I get my
food source, it's, it's morelikely to be calm and it's been
conditioned to acknowledge thesuperiority of the person.
Because ever since it was asmall animal it's been
disciplined and dictated.
Its life's been disciplined anddictated by the owner.

(15:23):
So there's that hierarchicalfear been conditioned into it,
whereas in the wild thehierarchical fear comes through
combat, like different animalsgoing up against each other or
even just sizing each other upand realizing like yeah, I can't
take that guy on, so I'm goingto be submissive and get out of

(15:44):
here.
Like, yeah, I can't take thatguy on, so I'm going to be
submissive and get out of here.
So that's what I would say isthat in the domain of humans
they've been conditioned tosubmit and be obedient and in
that they are sustained andprovided for, so they bond to

(16:04):
the human and they have thatrelationship, whereas in the
wild they haven't.
Since a you, since they wereborn, they haven't been
conditioned to understand thefear of man like in in a respect
way, and that's that's just howI see it, like I think
originally all of creation wasgoing, was, was under submission
of man.
We see it in Genesis Like manis to have dominion over all of

(16:29):
the earth and I think in thefallen state is where animals
gain the fear of man, in thesense of like fight or flight
fear, do you think?

Speaker 1 (16:38):
then that they are reverting back to something that
is naturally primal, like Idon't know how to put it, but
just like something.

Speaker 2 (16:47):
So back in time, the beginning of time yeah, I think
the I think that the ability totame animals like that man has,
the ability to tame animalsshows the, the intelligent
design of god where mankindoriginally in a perfect world,
mankind was tasked with havingdominion over all of creation

(17:11):
and tending to all of creation.
So, in a chaotic world where,you know, animals and dinosaurs
are having to fight each otherfor food to survive, dinosaurs
are having to fight each otherfor food to survive.
In a perfect world,hypothetically it could have
been that mankind is so involvedin the life cycle of all
animals there is no need tofight.

(17:33):
So they're all, or haveterritory or anything.
Yeah, in a sense, they're alltamed because they're perfectly
managed by a perfect imagebearer of God who perfectly is
present in his creation.
You know so the fall and sin iswhat causes the chaos of what we

(17:54):
have today, where animals areinstinctually now Against humans
, against humans and each other.
Yeah, and think about it withus, with our instinctual
tendency to sin.
Like it says that we were borninto sin because we're from the
first Adam to want to defy Godand be in opposition of him,

(18:28):
that we need a supernaturalinterference come down and
rescue us from our DNA andrebirth us into this new
identity, this new DNA of aGod-centered creature.
And that's what the gospel is.
That's Jesus.
Jesus is that supernaturalinterference who comes down and

(18:50):
redeems his creation by payingthe price for our sin so that we
can be reborn.
We can be regenerated, as theBible would say, but reborn into
a new body of the spirit.
And let's go back to the animalanalogy these animals that have
a healthy relationship withhumans, meaning that they're

(19:12):
playful, they're joyful, humansaren't afraid to be around them.
That comes from conditioning,from childhood.
Now you die to yourself, youdie to your sin, nature, which
is ingrained into your DNA, andyou're reborn into a spirit of

(19:32):
God.

Speaker 1 (19:33):
You give up what you think you need to be and submit
to what you should be.

Speaker 2 (19:40):
And then the sanctification creates that new
condition of understanding, towhere now you're not afraid of
God, Now you're not inopposition of God, Now you're a
child of God and you're livingto be a child of God and you
realize all your needs are metand sustained by God and you're
joyful in that and you enjoyjust being in the presence of

(20:02):
God.
So that's the beauty of thisscenario with animals.
When animals are tamed, ifthey're taken well care of by a
human, they bond to that humanand they have a healthy
relationship with that human.
And that comes through theconditioning of the animal.
And we can use that as aparallel to talk about our
salvation and the gospel of whenyou die to your sin nature,

(20:26):
which you're born with, justlike all animals are born with
instinct.
When you die to that and you'reborn again in the spirit and
you're raised in Christ, you geta new understanding of God and
you're not fighting him anymore,You're not in opposition of him
.
And the same could be said foranimals when they're born into

(20:47):
captivity or they're born into ahealthy relationship with a
human overseer.
Their instincts are different,Like they operate and function
around humans differently.
So it's just another example ofGod and you know, I think that
you can.
I think that's when the Biblesays no one can look at creation

(21:07):
and utterly and be honest anddeny God.
You can't, because of things assimple as this, as
domesticating animals like thatreveals God, and you know the
intricacies of DNA and thecircular.

Speaker 1 (21:27):
It can't be an accident, it's not by chance.
No, the chance of thishappening is so incredibly low
that it would almost say there'sno chance at all of it being a
mistake, which is not.

Speaker 2 (21:42):
And on that note, other things were intentional
and not accident and they weredinosaurs.

Speaker 1 (21:49):
So let's get back on.
No, I like.
I like it when we get off likeoff topic, but still on topic,
because we're a Christianpodcast.
So I've got this and I meant toread it when we first started.
But it says dinosaurs are someof the most fascinating
creatures to ever walk the earth.
They have captured ourimagination through science

(22:13):
movies like Jurassic Park andeven children's shows.
But when we think aboutdinosaurs as Christians, one
question comes up how do theyfit into God's creation?
Hey, there you go.
And we kind of talked about thisduring our old earth, new earth

(22:33):
episode.
Yeah, and I really do, becauseof our discussion that episode,
I end up leaning.
You know I I already had talkedabout how I'm kind of a mixture
of the both, but it's youngearth, yeah, it's young earth.
And with that young earththeory which states that
dinosaurs lived along humans,right, yep, it's that.

(22:56):
It's just that they livedalongside humans, and I don't
think that they were as crazy,scary as the movies and the
fiction make them out to be Likein the sense of like.
I don't think that.
It's like this jungle, you knowbiome and everybody's running

(23:17):
for their life like cavemen.
You know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (23:22):
Something like that coming up at you.

Speaker 1 (23:23):
Yeah, I don't think it was like that.
I think it's closer to beingwhat we are with animals now the
lions and the bears and thetigers and that kind of thing
where it's like they had theirplace, we have our place, and
they kind of just left eachother alone or they hunted them,
one of the two, and it's likewe talked about it too.

(23:44):
It's like we look at thesefossils and we are gauging an
entire what they claim to bemillions and millions of years
of history based off of fossils,off of bones.
Yeah, and it's like that justdoesn't make sense to me.
When you're sitting there aboutsomething logically saying,

(24:07):
yeah, hey, this thing happened amillion years, how can you tell
, just because of the dirt, howdeep it was?
That doesn't tell you anything,really.
Yeah, you are basing, going offof your theory, yeah, that this
much dirt on top of it equaledmillions of years, but there's
no proof besides you saying howdeep it is.

Speaker 2 (24:29):
Yeah, and the big thing for me is, you know we're
talking about dinosaurs, but aninterchangeable term would be
dragon.
Yeah, and we kind of talkedabout that in episode 48.
Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1 (24:44):
Where the dinosaurs were just that, the term term
dragon.

Speaker 2 (24:49):
The term dinosaur came up in the 1800s.

Speaker 1 (24:51):
Yeah, just like everything else that we're
uncovering, right on this littlelike I don't know what you
would want to call it like deepdive christian series.
We're currently under whereeverything?

Speaker 2 (25:03):
mormonism, jehovah's Witness, darwinism.

Speaker 1 (25:08):
All these things came about in the 1800s, all these
cults and everything that wetalk about.

Speaker 2 (25:13):
That we've talked about so far.
There's older stuff, I'm sure,and we won't stop either.
Yeah, but yeah.
So dragon there's dragonstories virtually across every
culture, Right the ancient world.

Speaker 1 (25:29):
It's probably one of the only few things that when
you do a deep dive into culturethat they all have in common,
when they write about somethingright.

Speaker 2 (25:39):
Every continent has a dragon story story you from the
mesopotamians, egyptians,persians, china, japan, india,
greece, rome, the slavic and wetand uh welsh.
Mesoamerica, africa and evenaustralia has dragon stories

(26:00):
stories, uh high griff,hylographics no hieroglyphs.
There's, uh, there, one that'slike a it's a no-brainer in
Cambodia, but there's a.
There's different artifactsfrom around the world that
depict things that could beinterpreted as different

(26:24):
depictions of dinosaurs thatwe've come up with today.
And another thing is that Imean Marco Polo.
When he went to China, theemperor had a.
I think it was a carriage thatwas pulled by dragons is the way
that he worded it.
But Marco Polo, when do youthink Marco Polo went to China?

Speaker 1 (26:44):
I don't know.
Let's ask him Marco.
I don't know.
Let's ask him Marco.
I'm not sure.
I'm going to say 1658.

Speaker 2 (26:53):
Wow, that was much later than I thought you would
say it 1271.

Speaker 1 (27:01):
Oh, I wasn't In the terms of dinosaurs.

Speaker 2 (27:04):
that wasn't very far off In the terms of millions of
years.
If there were these, if this wasthe prices right, I'd have been
close enough to win bothshowcases yeah, yeah, so he, uh,
he, yeah, he, he went there,you know, not too long ago, um a
long time ago, if you take theyoung earth uh perspective on

(27:26):
history.
And you know, a thousand yearsago.
Well, 800 years ago is not thatlong, but it is.
It is long.
When the earth's only 6 000years old, it's almost a
thousand years difference, youknow I would argue that it would

(27:49):
probably.

Speaker 1 (27:50):
I think it's like what.
It's actually 12 000 years old.
The earth, the earth.
Yeah, I think it's six.

Speaker 2 (27:57):
I'm gonna double or nothing right now okay, I know
that the argument is like.
I know that my argument hingeson the genealogies given in
Genesis and then the rest of theBible, and so people will argue
those genealogies and come upwith a reason why it's not.
But the reason I hold on to itis, one, because it's clearly

(28:21):
stated in the Bible and two,because every time we have
archeological evidence uncoveredit supports the Bible in other
areas.
So you know, the only thingthat we've got for old earth is
carbon dating, and that's beingspeculated.
So I think that the earth is isquite young in comparison to

(28:44):
what everyone else is saying.

Speaker 1 (28:46):
Right?
Is there really a when we'retalking about the age of the
earth?
Is there really a debate onpeople who believe younger what
the number is?

Speaker 2 (28:59):
Yeah, I think that some people will say like
between six and 10,000 years,gotcha.

Speaker 1 (29:05):
The reason why I say that is because and I believe we
talked about it last week, butthe age of people were
significantly longer.

Speaker 2 (29:16):
Yeah, I mean in the Bible it talks about them being
older.

Speaker 1 (29:19):
So if you're talking about somebody who's going close
to 800 years old, you'retalking about a very large
percentage of the age of theearth.
Yeah, you're talking aboutsomebody who, of all foreseeable
time, yeah, 800 years old iseight percent of the entire

(29:39):
earth or less.
If you're talking about 6,000.

Speaker 2 (29:43):
Yeah, yeah, and that's the thing is the age it
starts to decrease, like rightafter creation.
It kind of starts to godownhill.

Speaker 1 (29:54):
I'm more of the camp of like.
I do believe it's younger, butthe number is higher than 6,000.

Speaker 2 (30:02):
I mean I disagree, but okay.

Speaker 1 (30:05):
Tell me in the Bible right now what verse that would
disprove my statement, yours ormy?

Speaker 2 (30:11):
statement.
Prove me wrong.
Oh okay, Genesis 11.
This is the genealogies fromAdam to.

Speaker 1 (30:20):
Abraham.
So how many between Adam toAbraham?
How many is it in the Bible?
I think it's 1,500 to 2,000years.
That is a third of your entiretimeframe if you say six.

Speaker 2 (30:36):
Yep, because from Abraham to Jesus is another
2,000 years, and then from Jesusto now is 2,000 years.

Speaker 1 (30:45):
No 2,025.

Speaker 2 (30:57):
Yeah, 2,0.
Yeah, 2025, you're right, maybe, maybe, maybe, yeah, no, I mean
that that's the way it's.
Yeah, I guess plainly read like, if you want to get into the,
you know the different, likecontextual, cultural differences
in the way that they wouldwrite things.
Yeah, I'm sure I mean, we cantalk about it, we can get into
that conversation.
But the problem is is, when youlook at, when you cross,
reference the Bible with theBible, like they're reading it

(31:20):
the same way that we'd read ittoday.
Maybe not the exact same, butit's very similar.
You know what I mean.
Maybe not the exact same, butit's very similar.
You know what I mean.
Like they're they're notlooking at it and saying like,
oh well, you know, the bible, uh, was, was?
They were just fluffing up howold the person was no, I believe
the bible they were like whenthe bible says this person's

(31:40):
this age.

Speaker 1 (31:41):
Yeah, I believe that, for sure.
Yeah, that that's all I have tosay.
I like how you paused there,like, and I mean we can.

Speaker 2 (31:51):
I can I'll because you know what.
We'll probably get into it alittle bit when we do episode 52
.
But I'll bring the diagram of,like the ages.
I'll bring my own diagram,because the one that we looked
at last time was incorrect, solet me bring the one I made yeah
, I'll bring my own diagram andit shows, like you know, birth

(32:13):
and then when they had theirnext, their their lineage passer
, honor, their heir, if you will, and then when they died, and
then you can see how it's brokendown in the timeline.
Great, great.

Speaker 1 (32:26):
Now let's get back to dinosaurs yeah, and talking
about dinosaurs, let's throw itback to our dinosaur expert
littlefoot, with anotherdinosaur fact did you know a
stegosaurus has its brain as awalnut, even though it's like
tall and big?
Wow.

(32:47):
Can you imagine that?
You know what I mean Havingthis massive, massive body and
having a tiny, tiny brain?
Personally, I don't have toimagine it because it's true for
me, but I don't think that'strue.
I mean it must have to do withthe fact that the size of their
body is so large.
Right, yeah, because whenyou're talking about it's like

(33:10):
it must be in the design thatbecause their head's so high up,
yeah, it's like maybe the theydon't actually use their brain
for much of anything.
Yeah, because it's so.
It's designed to be smallbecause, like the same way that,
like a woodpecker's brain iscushioned Maybe there's a point

(33:31):
because its neck is so long.

Speaker 2 (33:34):
You're thinking of a brachiosaurus.
A stegosaurus is the one thathas the big plates on its back,
do you?

Speaker 1 (33:42):
got your phone on you .
I thought a stegosaurus was theone with the long neck.

Speaker 2 (33:45):
I mean they've got somewhat of a long neck, but a
stegosaurus was the one with thelong neck.
I mean they've got somewhat ofa long neck, but a stegosaurus
is the one with the plates onits back.

Speaker 1 (33:51):
Oh, my gosh brachiosaurus is the one with a
long neck then explain to me whyhis brain's so small, john?

Speaker 2 (33:58):
I, I don't know.
I can say from having chickens.
They don't have a very bigbrain, dang it.
They are predictable.
So that's what I'm thinking.
I just looked at a picture ofit.

Speaker 1 (34:12):
Yeah, I know, that's what I pictured being a
Spinosaurus, though A.

Speaker 2 (34:15):
Spinosaurus is the one with a sail on its back that
fights the T-Rex in JurassicPark 3.

Speaker 1 (34:22):
Oh, dang Okay.
So why is his brain so smallthen?
Maybe because his body's solarge.

Speaker 2 (34:29):
I mean the depiction of the head is it's
proportionally off, yeah, likethe head's not that big.
And the biggest thing I wantedto talk about with Astegasaurus
is there's a hieroglyph inCambodia.
That's a perfect depiction ofwhat we would think Astegasaurus
is today.
Perfect depiction of what wewould think a stegosaurus is

(34:49):
today.
Because of all thearchaeological stuff that we've
dug up with fossils and thebones and everything, we're like
well, this is what astegosaurus probably looks like.
And then we go to this ancienttemple that was created by
humans that has a hieroglyph ofa stegosaurus on it.
Like you got to tell me somethe people in cambodia they had
to have seen that.
There's no way that.

(35:09):
They just predicted that.
And then we dig up thefossilized remains, you know, a
couple of thousand years later,and we're like look, dinosaurs
are millions of years removedfrom humans.
It's like well, obviously not,because people were making
depictions of them in historyand antiquity.

(35:30):
So explain that to me.
Science, I believe in science,but as far as the brain size.

Speaker 1 (35:41):
Well, I had a whole argument ready to go, okay, and
you ruined it when you told me Iwas thinking of the wrong
dinosaur, yeah, so I'm a littlelike like lost for words here
are you sure that you put theright dinosaur for the fact?
I'm sure I put the rightdinosaur okay, because I was

(36:01):
reading it and I'm likestegosaurus and putting the
facts together, I just didn'thave in my mind a correlation to
what dinosaur the wordstegosaurus references.

Speaker 2 (36:13):
Yeah, the stegosaurus is a I don't know man.
I mean maybe like you think of,like labor creatures, you know,
like ox and cows Meals anddonkeys.
You know, donkeys are prettyintelligent.
I think that ox and like bullsand buffalo and cow, like all

(36:34):
the bovines like they're,they're pretty straightforward,
straight shooters.
I don't know.
I don't know how intelligentthey are in the intelligent in
the intelligent spectrum, butlike that's what I'm off the top
of my head.
That's what I'm thinking ofwith a stegosaurus.
Like it's a big creature.
It's burly.
Maybe it was utilized formanual labor, because if it has

(36:56):
such a small brain like it, whatcreatures with smaller brain
function tend to be predictable?
Like I was talking about withchickens a second ago yeah,
chickens are pretty spry so theycan evade you pretty easy.
However, you can predictexactly what they're going to do
.
You take a piece of bread, youthrow it.
They will run right for it.

(37:18):
You take about two to threeweeks.
You can condition a chicken todo things Like I for a while to
get the chickens to come to mewhen I wanted to feed them, I
would yodel, and now I can gooutside and I can yodel and a
portion of all my chickens willjust come running because they
they've been conditioned to likehey, this sound means food,

(37:39):
yeah, and they come.

Speaker 1 (37:40):
So so do you think that it's just more of?
They just are operating oninstinct and that's just how
they were created, or maybe theywere a food source?
I?

Speaker 2 (37:53):
I don't know.
I mean all of you I mean,obviously it's all speculation,
but I think with the size thecreature was and the tan, and
this is where I'm getting atwith the brain sizes, I think it
makes it extremely tameable,like it's really easy to predict
and then alter, you know what Imean it actually so what it did

(38:15):
in the garden of eden.

Speaker 1 (38:17):
This dinosaur, specifically, was meant to teal
up the land.
It just rolled over on its backand kicked backwards to teal
the land.
Yeah, yeah, that's what it did.
That that is, that's what it is.
We need a shirt with astegosaurus and it's just him
gardening, it's like, but he'stealing up the land with his
spikes on his back.
That's funny.
Is that the one with also thespike tail?

Speaker 2 (38:40):
I think there are depictions of it with spikes on
its tail.

Speaker 1 (38:43):
yeah, All right.
Well, on our T-shirt it hasspikes on its tail, and that's
what it's actually using to tealup the land.
Yeah, there you go, so.
Yeah, but yeah, I don't reallyknow why it's important to know
that they have the brain thesize of a walnut, like how do
you— you don't have to know,it's a fun fact, but that's what
I'm saying is like how do you?

Speaker 2 (39:04):
how do I mean?
I guess the size of the skullis how they're predicting that,
more than likely.

Speaker 1 (39:11):
The cavity within the skull.
What if it was the mostefficient brain?
Ever.
Yeah, what if?

Speaker 2 (39:16):
what if 100% of that walnut size brain Right?

Speaker 1 (39:19):
Like cause, we don't use the full power of our brains
, right?
It's like what?
Like a 5% or something likethat.

Speaker 2 (39:26):
If we did, we'd be able to manipulate space and
matter Right.

Speaker 1 (39:30):
Kyle XY.
Kyle XY oh my gosh, you broughtback a classic there.
I remember that show, kyle XY.
I remember seeing the postersfor that when I was a kid.
That was a show I shouldn'thave watched when it was coming
out.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (39:44):
I remember the show commercials.
Like when they were releasingthe commercials, the big thing
was like he doesn't have a bellybutton.
So everyone was like, oh, he'san alien, kyle XY.

Speaker 1 (39:55):
No belly button, he's an alien it was so funny when
they revealed what he was inthat show.
It was like oh, that's reallynot that clever.

Speaker 2 (40:02):
Yeah, everyone's like oh, he ends up being like a
yeah, like a test tube baby,almost yeah, oh yeah, we're
trying to see if we can unlockmore of the brain by keeping
them in the womb longer how didthat show end or did you turn it
off after they said he was atest tube baby?
I think I watched later on,after it was not popular anymore

(40:25):
.
I think I watched all the waythrough.
But you know like eventually,along the way it turns out,
there's a girl version of him.
Of course there is.
She gets out, but they wereplanned to be a couple.
But kyle falls in love with thegirl in the show, the main
character girl in the show,whatever like the family's
daughter type thing yeah and sobut they in the girl, kyle and

(40:48):
Kyle Kyle, we're going to callher Kyleette yeah, they end up
fighting against theorganization that is trying to
arrest them.
Yeah, and they've figured outalong the way, they've figured
out how to use all of theirbrain to the point to where they
can make things levitate andthey can somewhat fly and stuff,
because they're justmanipulating.

(41:09):
Like it's not memorable is whatI'm trying to get at the ending
, like there's some things aboutit, but overall it's not a
memorable speaking ofrememberable, do you remember
what the candy he loved was?

Speaker 1 (41:21):
no, for some reason.
This is what.
The only real, true fact Iremember about the show was that
he and I think it was becausethey had a huge brand deal with
this candy oh, and it's a candyyou can still get today
Hershey's Sour Patch Kids.

Speaker 2 (41:36):
Oh I feel like that's a popular one for teenagers
slash young college people.

Speaker 1 (41:42):
Hmm, I don't know what the obsession is Kyle XY,
kyle XY, obsession is Kyle XY,kyle XY, kyle XY.
And speaking of Kyle XY, thishas nothing to do with it.
It's another dinosaur fact.
Yeah, coming right at you fromLittlefoot.

Speaker 3 (41:59):
Did you know Triceratops?
His horns can be about likethree feet long.

Speaker 1 (42:07):
Try Ceratops and try again, try, try, try Ceratops.
Grow your horn, you will try.
Try Ceratops.
I mean this one's like prettycut and dry, right, like we know
why its horn is long?
It's for self-defense?
Probably Not, probably it is.

(42:31):
We know why its horn is long?
It's for self-defense?
Probably not, probably it is.
It is for self-defense 100 forself-defense.
Yeah, all three feet.
I mean imagine like beingimpaled by a horn that goes
through you and it's like prettymuch at least half your body
height, depending on your height.
You know what I mean.

(42:51):
Yeah, and I promise I know whata triceratops looks like yeah
it's like sarah from the landbefore time.

Speaker 2 (43:02):
Hey, there you go so I was thinking of not the
triceratops, but theprotoceratops.
It doesn't have like a horn, itjust has like the plate, no,
the like the shield plate headed.
Yeah, yeah, so, but you could.
You could relate that somewhatto these little figurines found

(43:25):
in China, and they're theHongshan dragon.
It looks very similar to aProtoceratops.

Speaker 1 (43:34):
So here's the thing I think I want to bring up,
because you keep referring tothem as dragons and keep doing
that, but don't picture them aslike a flying creature.

Speaker 2 (43:44):
I would say no, we're conditioned to the like how to
train your dragon welsh dragyeah, like the european dragons
that have wings and fly and and,uh, you know the term dragon,
it's just that it's.
It's a large lizard, reptilianlike creature.

Speaker 1 (44:04):
Yeah and like dinosaur just means terrible
lizard, if I'm not mistakenright I?

Speaker 2 (44:11):
don't know.
Let me look that up I'm prettysure it's just.

Speaker 1 (44:15):
It means terrible lizard and it's just essentially
references, meaning you'redoing a terrible job being a
lizard, you're the worst lizard.
You are the worst lizard everuh.

Speaker 2 (44:29):
So according to oxford languages dictionary, it
says a fossil reptile of themosaic error and many space
species reaching an enormoussize, or the section.
Second option is a person or athing that is outdated or has
become obsolete because offailure to adapt to changing

(44:49):
circumstances.

Speaker 1 (44:51):
But that doesn't answer my question of what
dinosaur means Like.
What does the word mean Notlike?
The definition, but like it'slike a Latin word or some
nonsense like that.
I'm looking through my notes.
I thought I had it.

Speaker 2 (45:07):
Yeah, let me try and word this differently, latin.

Speaker 1 (45:11):
Meaning of dinosaur.

Speaker 2 (45:16):
Riveting content.

Speaker 1 (45:18):
We love long pauses in this episode.

Speaker 2 (45:30):
Sorry, it's not Latin , it's Greek terms, so deinos
meaning terrible or fearfullygreat, and soros meaning lizard
or reptile.
Suja, you were right.
What, what, what, what, what,what so, oh, what, what, what,
what, what so, oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (45:52):
Yeah, hold on, let's press both of those at the same
time.
Okay, ready, three, two, one,oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (46:00):
It works.
That's awesome, yeah, Okay.
So this overview is saying thatthe term dinosaur does not have
a single direct Latintranslation, because it was
coined in modern Latin by SirRichard Owen in 1841, deriving
from Greek roots.
The Greek words are dinosmeaning terrible or fearfully

(46:23):
great, and soros meaning lizardor reptile.

Speaker 1 (46:28):
So do with that as you will Take that knowledge and
let everybody know that you nowknow what dinosaur means.

Speaker 2 (46:39):
Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah .

Speaker 3 (46:43):
No, no, let me means yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, no let
me, I'm trying to do the samefor dragon.

Speaker 2 (46:56):
Do you want to know what the first option for my
search history is when I type inthe word origin for?

Speaker 1 (47:03):
my search history is when I type in the word origin.
Is dinosaurs, actually dragonsor something to that effect.
No origin of runescape is thefirst.
Somebody was doing theirresearch for a past episode.

Speaker 2 (47:14):
Yeah, okay, so it originated from the Latin draco,
meaning huge serpent, whichitself comes from the ancient
Greek dracon.
The Greek term likely derivesfrom the root dirk, meaning to

(47:35):
see.
Clearly, suggesting the literalsense of the word was something
like the one with the deadlygaze.
Interesting, yeah, so the theearliest known form is the greek
word dracon, which referred toa serpent of huge size or a

(47:56):
giant sea fish either, or soneither describes a terrible
lizard.
Neither describes asupernatural entity.
It describes a massivereptilian creature because it
says serpent.

Speaker 1 (48:12):
Yeah, so, and we know those exist, like even now
today.

Speaker 2 (48:18):
Yeah, giant snakes Got a six foot long rat snake in
the chicken coop.

Speaker 1 (48:22):
Yeah, I saw that video.
That was crazy.
Crazy, man Crazy.
It's crazy that you let yourkids keep it as a pet as well.

Speaker 2 (48:31):
Yeah, it's okay.

Speaker 1 (48:34):
What's his name again ?
Lucifer.
You named him Lucifer.

Speaker 2 (48:38):
We named him Lou.
It's a girl, so we called herLou.
We named her Lucy, lucy, lucy.

Speaker 1 (48:44):
Dang Dang.

Speaker 2 (48:45):
No, it's somewhere I don't know.
I took it out of the coop andcarried it away and put it
somewhere else, in hopes thatHopefully it was the ground For
everyone who's concerned.
It's not eating the chickens,it's eating the eggs.
So we're just doing a betterjob of making sure we're getting
the eggs before he can getaround.

Speaker 1 (49:04):
Oh, I thought you said you.
I thought you were going to sayyou killed it, which I was
going to say good, no, it's arat snake.
Come at me, Peter.

Speaker 2 (49:13):
No, rat snakes are a beneficial snake in my life.
Rat snakes and king snakes Itry to let them roam around
because they deal with the ratsand the kings and the kings that
try to show up, all these kingsthat are showing up.
They're like slay king.
I'm like step back, I've got aking snake.

Speaker 1 (49:32):
Dang, that's what Moses did.

Speaker 2 (49:36):
He used a king snake to defeat.

Speaker 1 (49:38):
Pharaoh yeah, because he was a king.
Yeah, he was a king, so hethrew the king snake at him.
Look at that correlation.

Speaker 2 (49:44):
There we go.
His rod turned into a kingsnake and it just.

Speaker 1 (49:47):
Well, it's also because the snake was created by
the king.

Speaker 2 (49:51):
That's right, you're right.
I'm not going to argue with you, but yeah, I want to throw that
out there.
I think that you know we have adepiction of a dragon from
China called the Hongshan and itlooks like a creative liberties

(50:12):
, but it looks like aprotoceratops.
Yeah, like you wouldn't have tostretch it to see the
similarities, right.
So you know who knows how longback that that goes.
I didn't look into that part ofit.
But what I'm trying to get atis, if you hold to a young earth
, you can still believe indinosaurs, because we've got

(50:34):
we've got evidence fromantiquities that supports a
young earth and here's anotherkey fact that we like dinosaurs.

Speaker 1 (50:42):
As we know it today, the fossils were not discovered
until maybe 200 years ago, inthe 1800s.

Speaker 2 (50:50):
Yeah, so in the way that we know it now, the
industrial age, is it puffed up,the pursuit of knowledge camp

(51:10):
to the point to where we're attoday, to where people with
multiple degrees and thesedifferent things, they, they,
they have this like built-insense.
And even us, you know plebsthat are just the common people
we have this built-in sense thatwe're smarter and know more
than our ancestors from long ago.
And so, you know, they saw onelittle thing and they hyped it

(51:34):
up to this massive mythicalanomaly and in reality it was
something simple, reality wassomething simple.
And then we come across thismassive mythical anomaly, like
the bones of a triceratops orthe bones of a tyrannosaurus rex
, and we say there's no possibleway that this lived alongside
humanity.

(51:54):
It has to be millions of yearsold and when extinct, before
humanity was even developing.

Speaker 1 (52:05):
All because we've never seen it, because the
person saying that, I mean.

Speaker 2 (52:10):
Yeah, I mean there's different, and here's where it
comes around to.
There's different argumentsthat check out, like you know,
as an argument.
But the reality is there's norock solid proof to say that
dinosaurs lived millions ofyears before humanity.

(52:32):
And the same could be saidabout the young earth theory.
There's no rock solid evidencethat's undeniable, because no
one lives 6 000 years to 6million years ago.
You know what I mean.
Like we weren't there, right?
So we can't say one way or theother.
But you cannot ignore theevidence for the young earth and

(52:56):
just take the evidence for oldearth as fact, like there's
stuff out there that supportsthe idea of dinosaurs or, more
understood, dragons, living inthe same time as humanity,
because we've got hieroglyphs,we've got drawing depictions,

(53:17):
we've got statues, all thesethings that are creating
creatures that sharecharacteristics with what we're
digging up and saying, oh, thisis what the Protoceratops looked
like and it's this millionyears old and it's like, well,
but what if it's the Hong Shenfrom China and it's only 2,000

(53:38):
years old?
Yeah, you know, like it, or Iguess not 2,000, I mean you know
a little bit longer.
But you know, like it, or Iguess not 2000?

Speaker 1 (53:43):
I mean you know a little bit longer, but you know,
I don't know, don't, don't gettoo close to 6000, because
that's how old the earth is yeah, yeah, but that's what I'm.

Speaker 2 (53:53):
That's what I'm getting at is that?

Speaker 1 (53:55):
our our perception of time is so wacky, right,
because we look back and we actlike 18-whatever the 1800s
wasn't that long ago.
When we're talking about thingsin history, yeah, but then talk
about the 90s being so long ago.

(54:18):
So it's so interesting how wejust correlate that and kind of
contradict ourselves when we'retalking about certain things,
and it's always to addlegitimacy to our points of
whatever we're talking about inthat moment.
Yeah, it's like, oh yeah, theearth was is 45 million years

(54:40):
old, yeah, and then in the 1800sit wasn't that long, it was
only 100 years ago, yeah, butthen, man, the 1990s, that was
so long ago.
You know what I mean?
Yeah, it was, man, my dad's 35,he's ancient, you know?
Yeah, it's stuff like that.

(55:01):
It's just like we as peopleonly hang on to the things or
exaggerate or, yeah, notexaggerate, but add more
emphasis to points when itbenefits us.

Speaker 2 (55:13):
Yeah, and I'll make the.
I made this statement for lastfor episode 48, when we talked
about old earth, young earth.
For episode 48, when we talkedabout old earth, young earth.
But no one had a problem withthe earth only being 6 000 years
old up until darwinism.
Who was who presented, amongstother?
You know, scholarly people wereall speculating, but he

(55:36):
presented an option for naturalselection which would suggest an
old earth timeline.
But it was a theory and thetheory still hasn't been fully
proven and flushed out, and thatwas 200 years ago, yeah, and we
are, but now it's every andwe're, and we're hanging on to

(55:58):
it like it's the gospel.

Speaker 1 (56:00):
Well what?
Or?

Speaker 2 (56:01):
a lot of people are yeah, what's driving it forward
is the secular, is secularism.
It's like we need to separateGod from science, even though
the roots of science were in God.
Like all these guys that werethe fathers of science before
the 1800s, they're allChristians and they were trying
to understand this beautifulcreation that God made and they

(56:23):
wanted to get a deeperunderstanding of it.
And they were trying tounderstand this beautiful
creation that God made and theywanted to get a deeper
understanding of it, and so theypursued science to reveal the
glories of God.
And then we get into theindustrial age and everyone's
like well, we don't really wantto make God the focus, like, we
just want to pursue knowledge,and the pursuit of knowledge is
what has tried to divorce godfrom creation.

(56:45):
To where the point where we'reat now, where it's like people
are trying to say no, the factsare, the earth is old and
dinosaurs lived millions ofyears before humans ever existed
on earth, and natural selectionis fact and that's what people
are holding to and, to be honest, it's it's starting to die out.

(57:06):
Yeah, as the scientific methodis used unbiasedly by other
people, there's a growth ofyoung earth people in the
science realm that are sayinglike yeah, no, it seems like
like there's evidence to supporta young earth and the
coexistence of dinosaurs andhumans.
It seems like it's apossibility.

(57:30):
So, yeah, man, it just seemslike mankind makes all this
stuff up to try and discount theBible.
And then we find more evidenceas we search our history, and
the evidence does not oppose theBible, it supports it.

(57:51):
And I think that's what's goingto happen with science.
I think that as they dig moreand as they search more into
antiquity, they're going to findthat the Bible says that
dinosaurs were around, ordinosaur-like creatures were
around when humanity was around.
You know, job talks about thebehemoth and the Leviathan.

Speaker 1 (58:13):
I have that in my notes, talking about the
behemoth and the Leviathan inthere.
I mean we don't have to do adeep dive, but yeah, I mean
they're dinosaurs.

Speaker 2 (58:24):
And the Bible refers to Satan as the dragon, it
refers to him as a serpent, butit also refers to him as the
dragon and the.
And you know like it's not justcreating a new term, yeah, like
the Bible is using an existingterm to try and explain what
Satan will be like, and he'susing something that everyone

(58:45):
understood yeah, massive serpentyeah, because I mean that
anytime we are describing satan,it's always as a serpent, right
, correct?
as far as like a physical, likerepresentation, it tends to be
the serpent.
There's other demonic forcesthat are depicted in other ways,

(59:08):
like the goat demon.
You know, azazel, that'sdepicted as a humanoid goat, and
Molech, you know, that is likea half cow, half human deal.
There's all kinds of thingsMermaids, mermaids no, I'm
kidding.
There's all kinds of thingsMermaids, mermaids no, I'm
kidding.
No, it is Dagon.
Dagon of the Philistines was ahalf fish, half man.

(59:30):
Jeez.
So merman, merman, yeah,neptune, if you will.

Speaker 1 (59:37):
Or Aquaman.

Speaker 2 (59:39):
No, because he doesn't have a fish lower half
Shut up, jimmy, shit him.
No, because he doesn't have.
He doesn't have a fish lowerhalf, shut up, shit him.

Speaker 1 (59:46):
but uh, yeah, there's , there's dinosaurs in the bible
, dragons, if you will yeah, wejust probably a lot of people
kind of just skim over it anddon't pay much attention, like,
oh, behemoth, leviathan, it's aparable, or it's not referencing
something that is real, or orwhatever.

(01:00:08):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:00:09):
Well, and like I'm just saying people in general an
example people that try todiscard those descriptions in
the bible.
So, like the behemoth, peopletry to say well, no, it wasn't
it was.
They were probably talkingabout a hippopotamus and it's
like so many behemoths and it'slike okay, you know, I can see

(01:00:31):
where you're coming from, but itsays that its tail is like a
cedar tree of Lebanon, which isa massive tree.
So it's, either it's abrachiosaurus.

Speaker 1 (01:00:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:00:42):
Or it's an abnormally long-tailed hippo.

Speaker 1 (01:00:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:00:49):
Which one is it?
It's a dinosaur.
So, yeah, it seems that itwould be talking about a
dinosaur and the audience thatJob is being written to would
have an understanding of what abrachiosaurus is, Because it
uses the term behemoth andexplains what it looks like.
And it's like do you know whyit looks the way it is or why it
does what it is?

(01:01:09):
Do you know?
And the point is, job doesn'tknow, but he knows what it is.
Yeah, you know so, and it's thesame for the leviathan they
don't know the deeps and thehistory and the point of origin.
They don't know any of that Goddoes, because God created the
Leviathan, but they know whatthe Leviathan is.

(01:01:31):
You know.
So yeah, that's my argument,and we can get out of the Bible
and get into some otherhistorical stuff.
I mean, there's a hieroglyph ofa stegosaurus in Cambodia.
There's different depictions onancient art pieces of
brachiosaurusnet net, it's com.

(01:01:56):
It's com.
The hung shin is aprotoceratops, you know, you can
find little statues of that.
So I would say that there'shistory for dinosaurs when
mankind is a long dinosaur.
All right, do we have any morefacts from the Littlefoot?

Speaker 1 (01:02:17):
Yeah, I think what we've got time for one more fact
from Littlefoot over here?
Let's do it All right.
What is your more fact fromLittlefoot over here?
Let's do it All right.
What is your last fact?
Littlefoot?

Speaker 3 (01:02:27):
Some dinosaurs have feathers because like it helps
them like glide and fly, so theycan catch their food.

Speaker 2 (01:02:38):
So I don't know where I stand on this.
So I don't know where I standon this.

Speaker 1 (01:02:44):
I think it's like you see it, where it's like the
fossil right, where they havefound that they have the ground
around the fossil right, which Iguess in turn ends up with a
fossil has indentions offeathers around it, like in huge

(01:03:07):
plumages around it.
I think it's possible.
I mean, I don't think itdoesn't necessarily mean one way
or another, yeah, or changereally, like we've already
talked about how the dinosaursare not what we have been taught
in schools.
You know what I mean.
We're wrong about that.

Speaker 2 (01:03:28):
I don't.
Well, I've never heard thatpart of it where there's
indentions of feathers in thefossilized portions.
What little bit I know.
My understanding was likefeathers, it's hard for feathers
to fossilize because of thematerial that they're made out
of and because they're hollow,like I think that was another

(01:03:49):
thing like birds, it's hard forbirds to fossilize because their
bones are hollow and, uh, thefeather material of the feathers
.
It wouldn't really.
It wouldn't work is basicallymy understanding.
So, yeah, that's just what I'vecome to understand.

(01:04:10):
I could be totally wrong onthat, but I think some people
use it.

Speaker 1 (01:04:14):
Describe that oh, you're saying that those if you
look through like the like onthe outside, you can see the
outline of of the feather andkind of plumages-ness of the
dinosaur.
Yeah, so it's not on the fossilOf the feathered dinosaur.

Speaker 2 (01:04:33):
But what kind of dinosaur?

Speaker 1 (01:04:35):
That is a velociraptor, I don't know.
I don't know.
I just tried to quickly find anexample of a dinosaur having
feathers around it.
It's obviously not one that islike like that one that has that
flies.
Yeah, I don't know.
It's probably more than likelya um.
In the same way we have now islike some probably had fur and

(01:04:55):
some probably had scales andsome had feathers.
You know what I mean.
Yeah, I don't know.
I don't think that all of themdid have just feathers.

Speaker 2 (01:05:04):
Well, the one thing that I would say, approaching it
from like documentation fromhistory, is, it would seem, when
we're talking about this dragoncreature, the characteristic
that it predominantly shares isit is serpent-like or massive

(01:05:26):
reptile.
So that's the only thing that'shanging me up on feathers and
fur as the exterior cladding.

Speaker 1 (01:05:35):
Just because our lizards now do not have feathers
doesn't necessarily mean thatthey did not.

Speaker 2 (01:05:44):
And if you're approaching it from a older
perspective, I can understandthat.

Speaker 1 (01:05:50):
Well, let me put it more like this then Like, the
lizards we have nowadays are all, in comparison, very tiny and
the closest thing we have insize and also these lizards, all
the lizards, are not reallyrelated to one another.
Right, they're all you know.

(01:06:12):
Reptiles, yes, but they're alldifferent.
The size does not, you know,it's not all the same lizard in
different sizes, it's alldifferent breeds of reptiles.
Yeah, the largest one we haveis the Komodo dragon, and that's
still, I would say that now acrocodile gets bigger than a
Komodo dragon.

Speaker 2 (01:06:31):
But that's I mean they're documented to up to like
, I think, 17 to 12.

Speaker 1 (01:06:35):
Is that really the same thing, though A crocodile's
a reptile?

Speaker 2 (01:06:38):
I mean, I know they're reptiles, but they're
not really lizards though I meanit's an aquatic reptile, I mean
I don't know what else toclassify it as you know True.

Speaker 1 (01:06:50):
So then we have our crocodiles, alligators, and then
the Komodo dragons right.

Speaker 2 (01:06:55):
Yeah, I guess you could say the Komodo dragon is
the largest landlocked reptileRight.

Speaker 1 (01:07:02):
And obviously something that's aquatic is
going to be something different.
My point being is you can'tcorrelate that to size and say
that just because our evidencethat we have on land reptiles
are these few examples that aresmall, and then the only one

(01:07:35):
that is even remotely close tothe size of what an ancient,
quote-unquote ancient dinosaurwould be is really not
comparable to size of what wehave dinosaurs showing being
with their fossils.
So the size could play a partinto the feathers.

Speaker 2 (01:07:45):
And again, maybe not all of them had feathers.
Anyways, I would make theargument that dinosaurs, like
they're these massive reptiliancreatures, they would fall into
the category of megafauna,because we do.
I mean, we talk about other, wetalk about large mammals, right
, every mammal that we havetoday, it almost seems like it
has a massive predecessor.
You know, like we've got thegiant the mammoth, a giant

(01:08:09):
woolly elephant.
We've got the saber-toothedtiger, a massive north american
feline with large canines.
Yeah, you know like there'sthese.

Speaker 1 (01:08:22):
And then you know, like the buffalo wolf, like
those were bigger than theaverage and maybe my point is
supported that maybe some ofthem, maybe one of the you know
lizard form of an ancientcreature, right, yeah, had
feathers, and I know that weargue that, oh, oh, this, only

(01:08:44):
this one lived in this timeperiod and this one lived in
this period.
You know what I mean.
Do you believe that, like inthe different time periods of
dinosaurs?
Because I would more argue thatthey probably all lived around
the same time and they justlived in different regions.

Speaker 2 (01:09:00):
Yeah, what I would say is, I think, uh, ancient
peoples, if they saw a massivecreature with feathers, it would
fall in the category of birds,and if they saw a massive
creature with scale or skin, itwould fall into the category of
reptile or serpent, and then ifthey saw a massive haired or

(01:09:24):
wooled creature, it would fallinto the classification of
mammal.
Sure, but I guess, to answeryour question is, it could be
that different dinosaurs I thinkthey all kind of were around
but they died out at differenttimes.

Speaker 1 (01:09:44):
I would argue that they all died out at the exact
same time.
I don't think so.
You don't think they all diedout during the flood.
No, you think that there wassome dinosaurs on the ark.

Speaker 2 (01:09:55):
Well, but then what do we do with the argument of
Marco Polo documenting dinosaursin China?
What do we do with the argumentof the classic tale of medieval
knights going out and fightingthese massive serpents?

Speaker 1 (01:10:07):
I'll tell you what we do with them.

Speaker 2 (01:10:08):
What do we do with the North?
I'll tell you they're all wrong.
What do we do with the NorthAmerican tribal tales of these
massive winged creatures likeserpents flying overhead?
What do we do with theAustralian indigenous people and
the giant reptilian creaturesthat they see that are obviously
not crocodiles, because theydon't call them that?
You know, there's thesedifferent things where people

(01:10:30):
are around post-flood andthey're seeing and they're
documenting through stories, beit oral tradition or it's
written down or it'shieroglyphically documented
post-flood.
What do we do with that?

Speaker 1 (01:10:47):
So you're saying that instead of them dying all out
during the flood, which couldexplain okay, them dying out
during the flood could explain alot of the fossils and then the
ones that were on the ark didlive on.
That could explain that andthen, over time, that species

(01:11:10):
did die out.

Speaker 2 (01:11:11):
Yeah, I think that there's a theory about
post-flood I don't rememberexactly when, but post-flood
there's an ice age-like event.
But post-flood there's an iceage-like event, so it's not like
every inch of landmass iscovered in ice and everything
dies off.
It's that globally, everygeographical location drops a

(01:11:43):
couple of degrees, causing theenvironment to freeze up and
change livability.
So things that live furthernorth lost naturally occurring
food sources and either died outfrom it in a mass extinction
level or migrated south tosurvive.
And if they migrate, thenthey're having to deal with the
animals that are already thereand there's a battle for

(01:12:04):
survival.
So I think that that's a theorythat's presented that could
make sense of why post-floodthese megafaunas don't survive
throughout history.
History is one.
It would seem that a lot ofthem could have died out through
this somewhat ice age likeevent.

(01:12:27):
And then two, when it comes tosurvival, humanity and other
creatures they're going to huntthe thing with the most meat on
it to survive.
So I mean, we don't even haveto go that far into history to
look at that.
Like the native Americans theywould hunt, like the Sioux and

(01:12:50):
the Comanche.
You know, they would hunt theBuffalo and it became like a
sacred thing to them and theylooked at the Buffalo as like
their source of life and it'sbecause it was the bigger, it
was the biggest creature thatthey had.
They utilized every bit of itto survive.
And it's like, well, whywouldn't they just save the
buffalo and hunt other thingslike deer and you know, and the

(01:13:14):
elk and stuff?
It's like, well, they did huntthat, but they focused on the
buffalo because the buffalo wasthe biggest and it would yield
the most outcome.
You know, I mean, we think thatway today, like why am I going
to invest the same amount ofeffort and get less of an
outcome when I can just go andget the maximum outcome?
So I think that plays intoextinction of different

(01:13:37):
creatures, like massivereptilian creatures and massive
megafauna mammals and massivebirds and stuff.
It's a mixture of justhistorical god events, like an
ice age or something like that,with the combination of

(01:13:58):
humanity's fight to survive byhunting to extinction creatures.
So that's what I would sayabout dinosaurs and why we're
not really seeing them a wholelot today is because not because
they're A whole lot.
Who's seen them at all?
Well, that's the Thunderbird.
There's different Africanpeople in the Congo that are

(01:14:20):
allegedly seeing dinosaur likecreatures.
Hmm, people in like the congo,that are allegedly seeing
dinosaur-like creatures.
Maybe these cryptids likenessie and the ones that they're
seeing there are, uh, just that, cryptids.
Yeah, they're real.
Yeah, so I mean, it's all.
I mean no one's producing acorpse, so there's, there's no

(01:14:41):
document, there's no way to youknow, there's no way to say yes,
so there's no way to say yes,but there's no way to say no.

Speaker 1 (01:14:48):
So final thoughts.

Speaker 2 (01:14:51):
No, that's pretty much it.
I mean, like I said, I thinkthat ancient peoples are not
dumb like they tend to beportrayed as Well.

Speaker 1 (01:14:59):
Everybody considers them to be like cavemen.
You know what I mean, and Idon't think that we really had
cavemen like they think we had.
Yeah, I was just one, reallydumb guy, I think.

Speaker 2 (01:15:11):
As society develops, discoveries are made, and when
societies collapse, commonpractices are lost.
And so not to say thateverything that's discovered is
lost to time when a societycollapses, but some technologies
are, and so we're at the pointwhere we're at now because of

(01:15:32):
all the discoveries that we'vemade that have survived
throughout history andeverything that we've done from
the industrial age, like if, um,america and the European Union
are, yeah, if the like firstworld nations just all randomly
collapsed, some of thetechnologies that we have

(01:15:55):
developed and discovered wouldbe lost to time.

Speaker 1 (01:15:59):
So you know, old people, ancient peoples, are not
dumb, they're just different Ithink that we like to downplay
the intelligence of the pastyeah because we like to think
that, because we are in thecurrent time, we are the future,
that we are smarter, that weare, as people, progressing, and

(01:16:22):
I don't think that's always thecase, yeah, so yep, I agree,
but that's my argument fordinosaurs.

Speaker 2 (01:16:29):
I think that they are documented throughout history
from ancient cultures and ourancestors and that people will
argue that like, oh, they werejust superstitious ancient
people groups who lived byvoodoo weird spiritualization of
everything, and didn't havecommon and practical minds with

(01:16:51):
critical thinking.

Speaker 1 (01:16:52):
It's like oh, shut up , get out of here, get out of
here, come on so I've got onelast thing to read and we'll
close out this beautiful episodesweet.
So dinosaurs are not justprehistoric monsters.
They are a reminder of God'screativity and the vastness of
his creation.
Heck yeah.

(01:17:13):
They challenge us to wrestlewith questions of science and
faith, but they do not take awayfrom the truth of scripture.
Heck yeah.
Psalms 104, verse 28, says howmany are your works, lord In
wisdom, you made them all.
The earth is full of yourcreatures.
No matter your perspective,dinosaurs are part of God's

(01:17:37):
story and remind us of his power, majesty and wisdom Perfection.
Perfection.
Perfection.
There you go.
So thank you for joining us onthis episode 51 of the Saints
that Serve podcast.
That's right.
Christ is Lord and the kingdomis now.
We are the Saints that Serve.

(01:17:57):
Good job, good job, good job.