Dreamforce Highlights: AI Innovations and Career Transformations with Brandon Stein

Episode Transcript
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Announcer (00:05):
And now the number one audio program that helps you
to hire, get hired and soarhigher in the Salesforce
ecosystem.
It's the Salesforce Career Showwith Josh Matthews and Vanessa
Grant.

Josh Matthews (00:20):
Here we come, guys.
Here we come Another episode.
All right, let's get our showgoing.
I'm stoked about this onebecause we've got a ton of stuff
to talk about.
Welcome everybody.
This is the post-Dreamforceepisode, and I'm here with my
wonderful co-host, vanessa.
Give them a hello there,vanessa.

Vanessa Grant (00:39):
Hello everybody.

Well, hello to you, and I'm stoked because we
are joined by my friend and anabsolute master in the ecosystem
, someone that I've had respectfor this individual from the
very first time that I talked tohim.
Okay, brandon Stein.
Welcome to the show, brandon.

Brandon Stein (01:00):
Happy to be here, Josh.

Long time in the making Long time in the making,
and so a little bit ofbackground on Brandon.
I'm going to go over this, butthen we're going to dive right
into all things DF24 and have alittle bit of a post show here.
So Brandon Stein is a customerexperience and strategic
marketing leader.
He's worked at across a numberof Fortune 500s, including

(01:22):
Deloitte.
Lots of years in leadership atSalesforce.
He's still involved inpractices with MRE.
I'm saying it right.
I'm not looking at any notes,so I'm hoping that I'm saying
that right.
And look, when I read your bio,I go yeah, and what about all
the other stuff?
Right, because he's done workon strategy, on analytics, on

(01:45):
digital enablement, on drivingsales, on marketing customer
experience, but probably, maybeat the heart of it, you're
really just like a badass opsguy.
I mean, what do you think?
What are you?
What are you?

Brandon, great question.
I think you nailed it, josh,and my experience kind of came
full circle back to consultingjust the passion of getting
intimate with clients and livinga day in their life.
I'm really an ops and digitalstrategy professional and happy
to share my experience andcareer arc and, obviously,

(02:18):
takeaways from Dreamforce.

And audience.
I got to tell you I am jealousof Brandon's diplomacy and tact.
I mean, I don't have it.
I've got some, but he's got.
I think that's what happenswhen you work at organizations
like Deloitte and Salesforce anddon't quit after a year Like
it's going to rub off on you.
I mean, robert, half, whatever.

(02:43):
We were just a bunch ofhooligans.
It's not the same thing, right?
So my Fortune 500 leadershipexperience is markedly different
than, I think, brandon's.
That's going to be some of thefocus of our conversation a
little bit later on in the show.
Right now, let's get down toDF24.
How did it go?
What was cool?

(03:03):
What did we learn?
What do we think is going tohappen in the ecosystem?
How is all this stuff going toaffect people's careers and and
you know what's kind of ourgeneral sense of the ecosystem
right now?
So that's what I'm excitedabout talking about.
So let's start with you,vanessa, just with some really
like super easy questions.
Okay, what was the coolestthing that happened to you at

(03:29):
Dreamforce this year?

Oh, the coolest thing I think that happened to
me at Dreamforce.
For me it's meeting people thatI've known for years in the
ecosystem and it's their firstDreamforce.
So there were a couple of folksthat I've corresponded with
online.
One person was a mentee of minefor a number of years and she
came by and was just so kind andthat really meant a lot to me.

(03:55):
And then I also met EvelynMcGuire, who I think is Own
Backups Person of the Year likeInnovator of the Year, and hung
out with Evelyn quite a bit andthat was a huge treat for me.
We've been friends in theecosystem together for a number
of years as well, and she's asgood as advertised.

That's outstanding.
What about you, Mr Brandon?

So I have to say, Josh, the highlight is grabbing
coffee and sitting down withyou face to face.

Oh, this guy cut it out.

Oh, can I change my answer?
It was when we went to go graba drink.
Josh, yeah, that was it.

Okay, you guys get to come back to the show now
.

I only say that because Josh and I have known
each other for gosh close to adecade now and trade notes and
emails and calls.
And then Dreamforce is just oneof those experiences when you
get together face-to-face andyou get to connect with friends
that feels like you've knownforever and may not have had a
chance to be face-to-face with.
So that was super cool.
And then some of the otherexperiences just around San

(04:54):
Francisco.
I took my first Waymoself-driving car from one venue
to the next.

I did too.

It was so weird, so did I, it was great, though
Like you don't have to talk toanybody.

I mean, it was cool.

Brandon tell the audience what Waymo is.

Waymo is a self-driving, autonomous Uber,
right.
So all across San Franciscothere are electric vehicles
without drivers that you call onan app and takes you from point
A to point B, just like Uberwithout a human driver.
So kind of an experience.
The first time you get into it,I will say my reaction is it is

(05:33):
a very slow and safe ride.
Kind of feels like you'reriding with your grandfather.
Like really slow on the pedals,slow on the brake.
So if you're in a rush youprobably don't want to take it.
But other than that it was safeand sound, yeah yeah, I thought
the whole thing was a trip man.

I talked to some people and they're like, oh, I'm
too scared to try that.
I'm like, really like, you know, the thing that scares me are
people.
You know, this thing knows whatit's doing and great, let's
rock it and I don't have tolisten to their music.
You know, correct, you know,when I did it, it was that very

(06:10):
first night.
It was tuesday night and wewere going over to the grand,
which was the salesforce bendparty, and so I booked it.
It was only like a mile away.
I'm like, oh, I'm gonna do, I'mgonna do this thing.
Well, maybe not the best night,because everyone was going
somewhere.
I could have walked it in 15minutes.
I was in that Waymo for 40minutes, you know, and I didn't

(06:32):
really ever feel like someoneelse was driving because I never
felt like we were goinganywhere.
So I did take it a second time.
On the way back from the cigarshindig on Thursday night, it
was like, oh, ok, I'm, I'm, I'mpicking up on this right now.
So that's pretty cool.

Yeah, for sure.

Well, I'm going to answer my own question, that
I answered to you, or that Iasked the two of you and I got
to tell you like my favoritething, literally like the
coolest moment, and there were alot of great moments.
So, if you're like, but, josh,what about us?
I'm telling you there were lotsof cool moments, but I love
surprises and I'd taken thisWaymo out to the Grand which is

(07:09):
like this you know, bar place,club place, and I'm standing
there talking to one of myclients, john Dion.
I didn't know John was there.
I walked in and within about 30seconds I get this gigantic
Canadian hockey paw on my arm,on my shoulder, and it's John.
I'm like, oh sweet, right, and Imet John originally out at

(07:30):
Florida Dreamin', and so we'reshooting the breeze and we're
having a drink and we'recatching up and he's like you
got to meet this guy.
Excuse me, I got to send a textDon't go anywhere.
I want to.
I'm staying by the entrancebecause Cause you know this
guy's coming by.
You're going to love him.
You got him, you got to meethim.
I'm like great, cool man, likeI'm stoked and in walks, brandon

(07:51):
.
So the guy that John wanted meto meet was Brandon, and you
know, sure enough, we hadbreakfast breakfast date
scheduled for the next day, soit was pretty hysterical and
also remarkable, I mean.
I think that highlights so muchof what the Dreamforce
experience can be like,particularly if it's your second

(08:11):
or third or fourth or fifthtime, right, because you're
going to start running.
I ran into more people thisyear than last year and more
people last year than the yearbefore, and so on.
So that experience of going toevery event and party and
running into someone who knowsyou or has heard of you is kind
of a fun experience.
I think it's a little bit likegoing to a hometown for a few

(08:32):
days.

There's this concept, josh, of like a double
take, and I think in thatinstance it was like a triple
take for me.
Right, just my head was on aswivel trying to comprehend what
was happening and that's themagic of Dreamforce, but also
just how close it's.
A big ecosystem, right, there'sso many shades and flavors of
folks, but it is still a supersmall world out there and

(08:54):
everyone is a first or seconddegree connection away.
So that was super cool tocreate that.
John Josh Brandon moment.

Yeah, and it's amazing too.
You know it's not amazing, it'sexpected now.
But you know it's not amazing,it's expected now.
But when you know good people,guess what kind of people they
know?
They know good people too,Right, and so you wind up
getting into these circles ofreally just fantastic people.

I want to say it gets a little frustrating,
though, after you get home andthen you're in the grocery store
and people don't recognize youanymore.
Nobody's just saying nicethings just because you know I'm
a stream force, Like, take meback.

Yeah, right, it's right.
It's like I pumped gas theother day.
No one was like Josh Matthews,I follow you, keep it up.
That didn't happen at the gasstation.
Let's look just one otherlittle highlight.
I wanted to just put out therethat my co-host, vanessa Grant,
put on an outstanding session.

(09:51):
I only went to one of her four,but she put on an outstanding
session.
It was 10 questions to ask yourstakeholders before and then
you finish it, go ahead 10questions to ask whenever you
have a user requesting a field.

And since I think business analysis should be
part of any configuration in theSalesforce in your Salesforce
org.

Yeah, I'll tell you, I thought that you killed
it and you guys were reallyfunny.
You know you're you generallybring some sort of humor, but
this was like watching a Laureland Hardy routine or or or more.
It was like being in who is hiswife, you know, just like that
sort of old style comedy, youknow, couple on stage kind of
thing.
I thought it was very cute andI appreciate it.

Josh, tom Bassett and I did a session last dream
force and we were very fortunateto be invited to do for this
year.
When I looked at the badgescans in the portal, we had the
privilege of speaking to over athousand people last Dreamforce
or the Dreamforce, I guess, lastweek.

Oh, my God.

It's, it's pretty incredible.
So I'm, I'm, I feel, veryfortunate.

Well, yeah, but the fortunate people are the
folks who got to listen to you.
Those are the fortunate ones.

Can I bring up one cute Dreamforce story?

You can bring up 10 if you want.
Let's go.

So actually, when I first landed in SFO, it's one
of those like people starteyeing each other at the airport
just to see if there are otherpeople that are going to
Dreamforce there, and I ended upmeeting a Salesforce employee
who said that they helped writethe AI associate exam and they
said that it had a 93% pass rateand so everybody should take it

(11:37):
.
But there's a lot of ethicsquestions and so it's a pretty
easy thing to pass, and so my,of course, my question was you
know, does that mean that the 7%are supervillains?
And we made a joke about likewell, you shouldn't give them a
login, maybe, if they can't passthe AI associate.
But it was then announcedduring Dreamforce that the AI
associate and the AI specialistcerts the AI specialist is one

(11:59):
that just came out in the last,I think, right before Dreamforce
it was just announced that itcame out they will be free for
folks to take until December2025.
And there's even going to beselect free classes that people
can take in person in London andin San Francisco to prepare for
that AI specialistcertification, which I think is
a great opportunity for folksthat are looking to skill up on

(12:21):
AI and the Salesforce ecosystem.
So take advantage of thosecerts folks.

Yeah, you know what?
I saw your post about that,Vanessa, and I thought it was
very cool.
And so guess what I did?
I walked my little, took usover to Trailhead, jumped on and
went through the little prep,the little 20-minute prep that
they've got Nailed, it Are you?

an AI associate now.

Well, I was having some tech difficulties
With whatever that outsourcedTest platform is.
They were, it was.
I just gave it a password andit's like password not
recognized.
I just set it up, guys, andthen I got zero response from
help desk and service desk and Iwas just like, okay, I guess
it's not meant to be today, butI I'll take it.

(13:07):
I don't have a single cert, butI'll I'll have a 97% chance of
passing this one.
I think I got a hundred percent.
It was pretty easy.
The answers are in thequestions, you know what I mean.

Just pick the least evil thing.

Yeah, I picked the least.

Is it.
Do you want to run away withall of your customers' data, or
do you want to?

Yeah, it is a bit like that, but you know what it
is thought-provoking.
I'm just going through thatlittle bit.
It was like, okay, yeah,there's a bunch of stuff to be
thinking about here.
It's common sense.
For the most part it's commonsense, but I know a lot of
people without any of that, soit's probably a good idea to
have it right.

And it's a good, you know, feel good thing to get
before moving on to the moredifficult exam, which would be
the AI specialist which focusesmore on Salesforce's AI
offerings.

Yeah, and if you think about search in general,
right, it's more than just thecertification.
Like, salesforce obviously hasa business around the cert
platform, but the way it createsbuzz and marketing around these
topics and shows like thiswhere we're talking about the
CERT, it just brings relevanceto AI and clearly, with this
free offer, they want AI to bepermeating across every

(14:17):
organization, every Salesforceprofessional and beyond the CERT
.
It just stands for somethingmore than that.
So I think it's a smart move bySalesforce to do that
Definitely.

We've got Reid joining us.
Reid, did you make it to DFthis year?

Reed Marquand (14:31):
I am taking it this Friday night.
Oh cool, it's funny.
You mentioned the trouble withthe Krypterion web assessor.
I had a story.
I want to interject there if Imay.
Yeah, go for it, buddy.
Or I want to interject there,if I may.

Yeah, go for it, buddy.

Well, I wasn't sure that my microphone was
going to work here.
Because that Krypterionexperience, I would not suggest
using it on your go-to machine.
It has actually nerfed mymachine because it installs this
thing called Lockdown Browser.
Oh, no.
And I've now spent weeks goingthrough registry and stuff to
fix the damage it done.
It took away my video, mycamera and my microphone.

So oh my God, are you on a Mac or a windows?

Windows.

I probably very new machine.
Oh, that's such a bummer man.

Yeah, so it's just funny.
When you said you had a littlebit of trouble, I was like, oh,
I got a doozy for you.

I was hesitant to even request to speak here.

Cause I was like oh, I got a doozy for you.

I was hesitant to even request to speak here,
because I'm like, I'm not surethe microphone is going to work
because I've been so long.

Well, I'm glad you're on, reid.
Yeah, I know we're talking infull.
In what was it?
Two weeks?

That's right, yeah, so Reid's going to be on
the show guys.
So, reid, go ahead and givethem a little intro on who you
are, just a quick 10 second bet,and that way people can let
their palate for what we'regoing to be diving into in a
couple of weeks.

Yeah, how to describe me.
Josh and I've talked about thisand I, with many others, it's
how to describe Reed.
I'm kind of landing on a technofunctional architect and
product manager.
I've kind of been a lot of thelone wolf and my former CEO
called me the renaissance manjust because I dig my heels into
so many things and kind of fillin the gaps in a lot of places.

(16:07):
But I've been on the deliveryside, pre-sale side, in-house
director of IT and all sorts ofthings.
But 20 plus years CRM, cx andthe last eight dedicated to
Salesforce.

It's awesome, it's awesome.
And we're going to hear a lotmore about you in a couple of
weeks.
So thanks for jumping on theshow and jump in anytime you
want.
We're going to keep on the DFtheme here for a little bit.
Okay, brandon, if you couldwave a magic wand and you could
change anything about the setup,you know what we were talking

(16:40):
about, like all this sort ofstuff.
You know what's the one thingthat you would change in a
positive way, what's the onething that you would.
I thought it went well.
I thought it was better thanlast year.
But what would you change Ifyou could change anything big or
small.

You know, great great question I.
This is, I think, my 11th dreamforce right Half as a partner,
a couple as a customer and a fewas a Salesforce employee.
The expo floor, the vendors,the partners it's fantastic and
I feel like there's beenincremental leaps the last few

(17:12):
years on just engagement withthe vendors right on the
campgrounds and the major expofloors.
I think they're doing a goodjob, just making it a little
more interactive.
The way they capture contactforms and kind of the badge
scans and some of the follow-up.
It just it seems a little lessintimidating.
I had a great time Thursdayafternoon, spending most of the
last day on the expo floor, andI just felt less intimidating,

(17:35):
less salesy right, it just felta little more intimate.
So I think-.

Felt a little more gamified, didn't it?
It's just sort of like moreengaging that way.

Yeah, more engaging.
I think that they've done abetter job curating the
experiential booths and thegiveaways.
I think they're just doing abetter job personalizing that
experience and so I think kudosto Dreamforce for just making
that experience lessintimidating and kind of open to
anyone.
Right In the past it used to bea lot of sales guys just trying
to push you into deals, whichwas uncomfortable.

Yeah, yeah, and I think a lot of them.
Even I was chatting with one ofthe vendors, a smaller ISV,
down on the end, and they had aback corner.
You know they, I don't I thinkit was like a low traffic place
and they were like man, it'sbeen great We've got 2000,.
You know two 2000 names alreadyand and it was a really good
experience for them, worth thecost and I thought they, we had

(18:24):
fun, man, Like you know, Iplayed a bunch of mini golf down
there.
You know mini golf, some wheelof fortune or prices, right, you
know spins and I, you know Ilike how they, I like how they
gamified it a lot.
I mean a lot of the vendors,you know they sort of can kind
of bleed into each other, right,it's like you know.

(18:45):
So I get it, but I thought thatthey did a better job this year
of differentiating themselves,if only from like a marketing
standpoint.
Does that make sense?
I?

I?
I agree.
I think it's hard as a vendorto justify is that spend worth
it?
Right?
Are we going to spend five tosix figures plus to host three
plus days at the expo floor andwhat ROI do we get out of it?
How do we measure success?
I feel like taking the saleshat off and just the genuine

(19:18):
connectivity, the marketing andsome of the unique swag.
Like there were some reallycool items this year that are
highly personalized and verycool.
I feel like they made somememorable impressions on me and
I've been in the ecosystem awhile, so I think kudos to a lot
of the vendors for doing that.

Yeah, I felt like the mood was good, maybe not
Thursday morning.
I think there were a lot ofhungover people in Yerba Buena
Park at lunch.
I think that's true, I don'tknow, but I thought that you
know it's just a general goodattitude throughout.
I also want to point out,because we talked about this
last year Vanessa, do youremember when you were doing

(19:54):
some presentations in thecampground last year and we
could hear three?
We could hear three, you know,three sessions going on at once.

Yes, yeah, that's a little much sometimes.

Well, it's just a little much.
We're just kind of crammed insome little corner.
You know, I thought that theydid a much better job of, you
know, keeping the audio separate.
It looked like when people werehaving a session.
It was a real session.
You had a stage and you knowthere was room for people versus
like yep, you guys can.
And you know there was room forpeople versus like yep, you
guys can have.
You know this.
You know this little everyonesit on the floor for 20 minutes.

(20:28):
I'm not saying it was that bad,but there were a couple of
little ones that were like wow,like we can't hear what's going
on, and it felt really crammed.
But I think and I don't knowbecause I haven't Googled it,
but I think the numbers wereabout the same this year as last
year.
Does anybody know?
I see we've got Gilda listening.
It's good to have you on theshow.
I shot her a little messageearlier because I wanted to pop

(20:51):
up and say hi, because I wasstanding outside of Fong's
talking to a podcast listenerfor a little bit.
But she came in and she wasrocking these sparkly purples,
man, and they look prettyawesome.
They look pretty awesome, butnice to have you on the show.
Thanks for joining us today.
Feel free to jump in if you'dlike to Vanessa, anything that
you would have just tweaked alittle bit.

(21:11):
And before you answer, I'm justgoing to say what Fred shared,
because I was on his podcast onMonday.
That's Fred Cadena Banking onDisruption, and Fred said he's
like no complaints.
His only complaint is SanFrancisco.
As soon as you step out threeblocks outside you're like oh
God, you know, you know thisagain like it just doesn't feel

(21:34):
very clean.
Sometimes it doesn't feel verysafe.
I didn't, you know, I'm kind ofused to it.
I lived in Portland forever.
I lived in San Francisco before.
I guess you get kind of numb toit, but I'm kind of curious.
Any thoughts like that,anything?

that you would have done different.
Are you ready for mycontroversial takes?

Do it.

I've got two and I was pretty adamant about these
during Dreamforce.
So the first one is I went.
So folks may know that I waslaid off at the end of August
but I had already received myinvitation to speak at
Dreamforce, so I went.
I went to the sales lodge inthe service lodge areas of

(22:14):
Dreamforce where basically, youhave to do a few things so that
you can get some swag, andthat's fine.
I was following a friend of mine.
I'm usually not into theplushies, but I was like sure
I'll follow you, let's hang outfor a bit and I went and the
only way to get the swag, likethe blazer or the little plushie
, was to fill out a G2 review.
And the only way you can fillout a G2 review is by having a

(22:36):
business email.
Now I could have used like someother email address, like my
trailblazer community groupleader one or something like
that, but it wasn't the point,and so I was very frustrated
that one folks like me that wereeither laid off or folks that
are new to the Salesforceecosystem, that are, you know,

(22:57):
only because there are a lot ofpeople that are very new to the
ecosystem that come toDreamforce really to network and
to learn that they were goingto get shut out of things like
that.

And like you don't get an email when you're
pulling espressos at Starbucks.

Yeah, that's, that was the thing, and so you
know that it was.
You're getting prizes forskewing online reviews of
Salesforce products, and maybeit's not skewing.
I mean, it's not like theywouldn't give it to you if
you're not honest, but thatrubbed me the wrong way and then
I had to, like, talk tosomebody.
So, hey, by the way, I got laidoff Like you know how do I get,

(23:36):
how do I?
I'm still a service blazer, youknow.
I mean I, you know I helpedupdate exams, like come on, so
that was one thing that I wouldchange.
I didn't love that.
I'd rather much rather it belike hey, you know, let's.
You know, maybe you share apost about Salesforce or maybe
you do a challenge on a computer, like something like that, to
learn about the product, that'sall good.

(23:57):
The needing a business emailand writing a review totally
rubbed me the wrong way.
The second thing that I have anissue with and this is for
anybody who is bringing a grouptogether at Dreamforce I think
at Dreamforce there are peoplethat are traveling from all over
the world and when you havepeople that are coming together,
think about what you are tryingto achieve when you're bringing

(24:20):
them together.
So I don't want to get into likespecifics and I will
specifically say Gilda, thisisn't anything.
Gilda had a wonderful event, awonderful event that I attended,
but I went to a couple ofdifferent events where I felt
this frustration where,especially if you're bringing
leaders together, think aboutwhy you are bringing those

(24:40):
leaders together and what youwant them to spend their time on
.
If it's just to you know, havethem socialize, or something,
that's great, but if you'retrying to bring people together,
like you, this may be the onlytime you have this many leaders
in a room together.
What are the things that youcan accomplish together?
What are the things that youwant to leave with?
What information do you wantthem to share with each other?

(25:02):
And that's where, like I, wentto one kind of ropes course,
vanessa.

They just should have done a ropes course, let's
just no-transcript.

support our Salesforce communities more.
You know what are things thatare working in your communities
that I might be able to take tomine and I missed those moments
didn't happen and I felt likethey kind of got overwritten by
things like trivia and that thatfrustrated me a bit because I
felt like opportunities werelost.

Okay, yeah, I can see that.
I can see that I I did not haveany experiences like that, so I
, you know, I guess I don't getit.
But yeah, I don't even knowwhat to say here.
I mean, I connected witheverybody.
I just sort of feel like youput a bunch of people in a room,
give them some cocktails andsay, okay, figure it out.
You know they'll figure it out,they'll figure it out and that

(26:14):
there are.
You know, if you're pullingtogether an actual group of like
, okay, we want to have this,like whatever whether it's a
beta testing group or a minithink tank or like whatever it
is like you can do that withintention and then you're going
to get the people specificallygoing for that specific thing,
because that's something thatthey want to participate in.

(26:34):
But I think, pulling leaders youknow there are so many kinds of
leaders, right?
I mean, not all leaders areextroverts, not all leaders want
to talk too much because theydon't want to give away what
they've got going on.
Some people there are leadersout there that might be
struggling and God forbid thatyou lubricate them a little bit
and now they're saying stuffabout their company or about

(26:56):
their business or about theirprospects and they shouldn't.
And it's public, you know whatI mean.
So I think a lot of theseleaders are by design not by
design out of necessity at timesin certain social situations,
going to be a little bit morereserved.
Like they got a job, you knowwhat I mean.
Like they got the job, they,you know, they're a dream for us

(27:16):
.
They've got Salesforce, youknow, and so the rest should
just be kind of fun andconnection, but connection of
whom they want.
But you know, you were there soyou would know.

Yeah, and I think fun and connection is.
If that's the outcome thatyou're looking for, I think
that's also a great outcome.
I just it felt like for acouple of different events I
went to, it was just like a whyare we here to you know?
It just felt that we're justsitting in a room together and
just missing an opportunity toactually connect.

Gotcha, so was this more like a session type
thing.

No, this was.
Both of them were kind of likeSalesforce, like community type
things.

Gotcha, okay, yeah, I'm not involved in the
Salesforce community at all, soI wouldn't know anything about
that.

Yeah, I don't know.
We get pretty passionate, somaybe I'm just kind of off the
rails and I should be like youknow, as long as we're all just
grabbing a drink together, it'sfine, but it's you know I'm
looking for, especially at aplace like Dreamforce.
How do we affect change in ourSalesforce community?
How can we benefit our owncommunities, our local

(28:29):
communities, virtual communities?
We have wonderful leaders inthis ecosystem and I wish that
they would help make us betterleaders.

Okay, fair enough , brandon.
If there's anything that youcould change, just push a button
, just small or big.
What would you want to seedifferent?
And it doesn't have to be aboutDreamforce, it could just be
about your experience and mightbe like I'll fly into Oakland
instead of SFO next time, likewhatever.

Yeah, just great question.
Just quick reaction toVanessa's feedback and comments.
Completely agree, I think youget out of the ecosystem what
you put in and I think, from aleadership perspective, that
authenticity and those genuineconnections are really what a
lot of us are seeking, right?
I think Salesforce sometimesneeds to kind of cut through the
marketing fluff and just get tothe brass tacks of these types

(29:11):
of sessions and what it's for.
But remember, dreamforce is abig buzz kind of marketing event
in a lot of ways, so sometimesit's hard to escape it when
you're in Dreamforce Park oraround the area.
Let's see, I think magic wand,it's a great.
It's a great question.
Something funny happened on theexpo floor.
I don't know if anyone saw.
There's a Rover kind of robottrying on passing out issues of

(29:35):
time magazine.
So the robot and you stop it ortap it at its little lid lifts
up and you can take out a Timemagazine and someone yells
across the floor which I foundpretty funny right Like hey,
there's a reason, you know,benioff owns Time magazine, so
feel free to take an issue.
It was kind of a little bit of ajab on why Time is there, but

(29:57):
it was a cool kind of rover, away to pass out periodicals, and
the topic on the cover was AIand transformation in AI.
So it talked about a lot oftech objectives and AI topics.
So I thought that was just kindof a cool different type of
thing, but I just thought thecomment in the hallway was funny
.
So, yeah, but yeah, magic wand,no, love San Francisco.
I cannot.
Honestly, josh, we toyed withthis idea when I was at

(30:20):
Salesforce and I've heard rumorsabout if San Francisco doesn't
embrace the conference and kindof clean up its act, it Benioff,
I think, at one pointthreatened away from San
Francisco.
But I just I cannot imagine theconference taking place in
Vegas or anywhere else.
I just, yeah, man, I can'timagine it being the same.

I can't imagine it.
I got into this with Fred alittle bit on on banking, on
disruption Cause his number onething was like yeah, move it out
of San Francisco.
And I'm like okay, but wherehe's like Vegas, I was like okay
, can you walk one block awayfrom the conference center and
be at Fong's or something likethat?
Can you be at this greatsteakhouse?
Can Salesforce Ben rent outthis restaurant for three days?
What about Sir Conte?

(30:57):
Can they like?
It's like no, you're going to besweating and huffing it a mile.
There's no way you can hit allthe sessions inside and have
these breakout events, which Ithink I mean that's my favorite
part, right Is the theseopportunities to connect, have
some food, break bread, have adrink, if you want, and get to

(31:18):
catch up.
I mean I get to know my clientsso much better when I go.
I run into them at the cigardig.
I run.
I run into them at, you know,at the Grand or like wherever
these you know, or at the W orlike wherever people are.
So I don't, I can't imagine acity that can offer that kind of
landscape of Moscone, plus allof the ancillary restaurants you

(31:38):
know in San Francisco andhotels and walkable and all of
this.

Yeah, yeah, no, I totally agree.

Yeah, yeah, no, I totally agree.
Yeah Well, let's talk aboutsecret agent force, let's talk
about it.
That was the big announcementagent force.
I felt lucky to actually getinto the keynote this year.
I always late or doingsomething the other year, so I
was happy to get down there and,just by a show of hands, live
audience here who here has heardof agent force has looked at it

(32:13):
as, maybe watched the keynoteor, you know, went to dream
force and got to actually playwith it a little bit.
Just a quick, some purplehearts here are raised hands.
Okay, we've got one.
Two, all right, okay, two.
I know it's more than that.
I know for a fact it's morethan that.
Maybe you're driving right,maybe you're like changing a
diaper right now, I don't know.

(32:34):
But I don't think I'm thegreatest person to talk about
agent force because I don't workin a technical way with
Salesforce and with Salesforceproducts.
So I've got a hand up from MrReid.
Reid, do you want to give usthe rundown on AgentForce?
Go ahead.

(32:56):
Well, that was just my hand upfrom saying yes, I heard oh okay
, Well, you got to pull it downthen, so okay.

I will say, you know I found it very, you know,
compelling and the possibilities.
I think about all the.
You know I think everyone hasmixed emotions about these sort
of things, about whether replacefolks or augment folks, whether
replace folks or augment folks.
And you know I'd say the answeris yes.
But one thing I've been thinkingabout writing an article about
this is what some glazed over oryou know they said it, the loud

(33:29):
part, soft was that in order toleverage it, you had to have a
really solid foundation to buildon.
It says, oh, you can use yourflow and you can use your Apex
and all this stuff.
I was like, if it's extremelywell built and your system is up
to snuff.
And so I think what was kind ofglazed over is oh, yes, how
easy it is, but it's because youhave done a lot of hard work to

(33:53):
create such an environment thatcan leverage it.
I'm sure there are people outthere that says, oh, I'll just
fire off this group of peopleand agent force will do it for
me and they're not going to havea rude awakening there.
But that's kind of where I'm atwith my Okay.

Yeah, and look, it doesn't matter what it is
like bad data, bad output, right, it's just how it goes.
So, yeah, people need to investin their teams, right, to have
good data, and especially thesesmall companies, because I
promise you, I know for a factbecause they call me and they're
stressing and they're nervousand they've got a problem and

(34:29):
it's got to be fixed tomorrowand they don't have any staff to
do it.
It's like, okay, so you knowyou got to stay on top of your
orgs, right, make it run well,invest, get some consultants,
get someone to train the team,get someone to write some good
flows.
Like you know, even if you'relittle, you can do that.
Every company can.
No company can afford not tohave that stuff working for them

(34:51):
.
And I hear all the timeparticularly with the small
companies, but sometimes the bigones like, yeah, we spent all
this money on sales for us, butyou know it's not really being
used and I know it's morepowerful than what we're using
it for and people aren'ttraining.
It's like, well, you are short.
One to two people on your staff.
That's your problem, right, ifyou had a really good admin who
could train or a good BA tofigure out if your thing was

(35:13):
even set up accurately.
I don't know what.
You know, low cost.
Oh, I lost my job and now I'mat an SI partner, you know,
suddenly you know three monthslater, but maybe not
particularly skilled, you knowwho did your implementation.
It's like you got to unravelthis stuff and you got to do it.
But what I want to do now,because I don't want to mess it

(35:33):
up I'm going to share a fewpoints about what agent force is
for our audience.
Who's listening?
Maybe this is the first timethat they've heard it or that
you've heard of what agent forceis, so I'm just going to read
it.
I'm going to try not to soundlike a robot.
I am going to put on my glasses.
I lost my nice glasses on myway to go see Brandon for

(35:54):
breakfast.
That's a true story.

Okay, check with the Waymo, maybe the Waymo
grabbed it.

It wasn't the Waymo baby.
No, it's what happens whenyou're wearing a sport coat you
put your glasses in the breastpocket and then you get hot and
then you fold your jacket overyour arm.
That's a very fast way to loseglasses, because it just slips
right out.
Okay, agent Force isSalesforce's latest AI
innovation, designed totransform how businesses

(36:19):
interact with AI.
Here are the key points.
So autonomous AI agents.
Agentforce is a suite ofautonomous AI agents.
They can analyze data, they canmake decisions, they can
execute actions without humanintervention, and the idea here
is to automate complex tasksacross various business
functions, like sales, marketing, customer service, what have

(36:40):
you?
So they can handle a lot oftasks, such as answering
customer service inquiries,qualifying sales leads,
optimizing marketing campaigns.
It integrates with Salesforceand tools like Data Cloud, so
it's actionable.
It's customizable.
It's customizable Businessescan build, customize and deploy

(37:12):
their own agents using reallylow-code tools like Agent
Builder.
Mark and the team showed us howto do that.
I think it was the fellow fromSACS showed us how to do that on
the keynote we had a discussionthe other day.
It's like did they just buildtheir own AI brain or did they,
you know, work with open AI orlike like you know, how did they
build this?
I don't know.
I still don't know, but Atlasis the reasoning engine.
One of the things Mark said isthat the the new AI has 30%

(37:33):
fewer hallucinations, which isgreat.
The new AI has 30% fewerhallucinations, which is great.
So I don't know about you, butwhen I'm working on some of my
AI stuff, it's like how did youcome up with that man?
Come on Like stop that.
And then here's another thingSalesforce established an

(37:53):
agent-forced partner network, sothat allows customers to deploy
pre-built agents from partnerslike AWS, google, ibm and others
.
So I think that's great andit's available, it's going to be
built in and I think it'spretty awesome.
So that's what it is.
If you've got any questionsabout that, I strongly recommend
you go to Salesforce and readall about it, watch some videos.
You can go to Perplexity andread exactly the same thing that

(38:15):
I pulled up when I typed intell me about Agent Force.
And this is what I got.
That's what I read to you.
Now, this is the career show,and so we've got to bring it
down to careers at some point.
I think 45 minutes into theprogram is probably the right
time to do that.
What do you guys think?

Let's do it?

Should we do it?
Should we talk about careers?
Okay, so the big question hereis how is agent force going to
impact the Salesforce ecosystem,the people inside the ecosystem
, and how is it going to impactcareers?
You know, you know across thebusinesses that are using, using

(38:56):
the product.
So I've got my own thoughts,but if I give them first, you
guys will be like yeah, what hesaid, I'm just kidding.
I'm just kidding, so go ahead,let's hear from you, brandon,
what's your take on how agentforce may or may not impact
careers within the ecosystem?

Yeah, so I came back from San Francisco and I've
spent a handful of days withthree or four of our strategic
clients and it's interesting,right.
It certainly, reid, I think,mentioned this a bit, and you
did too, josh.
It is a product of manyproducts, meaning if you are
locked in the Salesforceecosystem right, we used to have

(39:33):
this term called single cloudor multi-cloud.
Single cloud is usually oneproduct with Salesforce.
Term called single cloud ormulti-cloud, single cloud is
usually one product withSalesforce, multi-cloud is two
or more.
This is a solution that you haveto have, I believe, data cloud
as an underlying foundation,along with a lot of those other
flows and processes in salesservice marketing.

(39:54):
So it is a multi-cloud productof product, meaning you are
locked in the ecosystem and youare now orchestrating agent
force.
So I think it is for those moreadvanced, mature orgs.
When it comes to the clientbase, I do think there are some
easy to use configuration tools.
You don't have to be a techie.
There's some config and dragand drop capabilities that looks

(40:16):
at themes to orchestrate a lotof these tasks, like there's
some kind of easy to useorchestration around it.
Yeah, so I try to be as low codeas possible on it, correct,
there's a tremendous amount ofcode that's in there.
But what you see and what'smanifested on the business users
and or the admin end is lowcode.
Right, you're configuring,dragging and dropping, but

(40:36):
underlying those components is alot of code.
So I think it's well marketed,well positioned.
It comes out, I think, in GA inthe next month.
It'll be, I think, moreadvanced.
I think it'll require customersthat are orchestrated in a
fairly oiled way today and thenkind of be on the cutting edge
of what organizations want to dowith those complex orgs and
kind of advance into this agentforce platform.

(40:58):
So but I think it's here tostay.
I don't think it's a flash inthe pan, I don't think it's like
genie or some of these previousannouncements that were a
little bit more buzzy, oh my.

God, genie Gross.
Yeah, yeah it.
It feels real, it feels realand I don't know if it was you
or Reed that said like yeah,like yes, is it going to cost
some people jobs and is it goingto help companies and help jobs
, and it's like yes, right,vanessa, what do you think?

I think this is one of those.
You know, where were you when Ihit your business type deals,
just like when Internet happened.
I feel kind of old since theInternet happened.
But yeah, we have to evolve.
I mean, salesforce is whetherwe want to or not.
I think there was a lot ofresistance initially.
I think there is still a lot ofresistance.

(41:48):
So Salesforce is trying to findways.
Okay, well, your data's kind ofa mess.
Well, we have data cloud andways that you can, you know, put
together all this disjointeddata so that your AI does work
better, so that you can leverageAI.
And then also skilling peopleup so that people are going to
start bringing in those ideas totheir organizations.
Whether you want to or not,everybody's on this ride

(42:11):
together and I think there'sgoing to be a lot more of a
shift from just jobs are goingto change because we have to
leverage AI in order to do ourjobs more productively.

Well, yeah, and to compete, Right, I mean that's
the thing we're all like.
There's so many gold coins inthe world, right, a lot of
people, and everybody's tryingto get something from the same
pile.
It might might move around,change hands really fast, and
that's generally good foreverybody, but if it doesn't
like you're trying, you'retrying to get your gold and
you've got to be on this.
I mean, we've been talkingabout this for two years, right?

(42:47):
Do you remember?
I want to say it was like ayear and a half ago and we had
david giller on and he wastalking about you know, it was
like the chat gpt episode andtalking about everything that
that's gone on.
Well, I sat down with him atNew York world tour.

That was such a great conversation.

It was such a great conversation and he's like
, yeah, nevermind any of thatother stuff.
Like it's moving so fast, right, it's moving so fast, and
you've got to get on the train.
And really it's like if allthat people did was just like
can we just?
You know, it's like pianoBrandon's an accomplished
pianist.
You know you could spend 20minutes on AI for two weeks, 20

(43:23):
minutes a day.
You'll be way ahead of thecurve.
Like if that's all you did,just watch some YouTube videos.

I will add this is years and years in the making
to what you guys are pointingto, and I think Reid has his
hand up so we'll turn to him ina second.
But I did draw an interestingparallel to Brett Taylor, the
former brokerage to Benioff, whowent out on his own to start
Sierra, a large language modelAI chat experience or bot

(43:50):
experience.
So you have to think about thegenesis of this product roadmap
from Salesforce.
This was probably years in themaking, I believe under Brett
right, he went out on his own tostart this.
But if this was whereSalesforce was headed natively
with its solution set, ai drivenexperiences and automation is
certainly the future, and nowSalesforce is very well in that

(44:11):
space and competing with tons ofother players in that space.
So this is years in the making.
So this is just themanifestation of it, it's true.

And think about this.
Everyone, pick up your phone.
I'm holding my iPhone 15 ProMax right and now remember your
first iPod.
Like agent force is like thefirst iPod.
Like this stuff's just going toget bigger and blow up.
It's going to change the waypeople work.
It already is.
It's going to change it so muchmore than we've ever even

(44:39):
imagined I can't even imagine itRight, cause sometimes I'm not
in the future.
It's like, ooh, that's scary,but you know it's going to
change so much.
So when you, when we're lookingat the last couple of years,
it's like you know, whatever thefirst iPhone that came out, you
know.
Or when, when you know 56 Kdial up right, it's like that

(44:59):
was a game changer and then yougot high speed and oh, then you
got fiber.
All right, read it to you,buddy, go for it.

Well, I think your initial question was about
how this is going to changethings for the admins or the
people developing and justcareers in general.

I want to keep it broad.
It's the ecosystem.
You can talk about theecosystem or just in general.

Yeah, so for the last two days I've been in on
the what do they call them?
The virtual workshops,post-dreamforce.
We had agent force, promptbuilder, and then I forget what
the next one is tomorrow.
But yeah, I'm going to say youbetter get on board, someone's
going to eat your lunch, someoneelse is going to use it and is
going to eat your lunch.

(45:37):
You said 20 minutes a day.
I think that's an excellentstart and should probably bump
that up as I'm playing with thisand I'm building here I think
Brandon kind of mentioned it'skind of where things have been
going and it feels familiar.
The interface you're buildingin you know it's in the UI, it's
prompt builder is a lot lookinglike the flow builder or some

(46:01):
of the others.
When I first saw it, I saw thisprompt interface.
I said that's a lightning emailtemplate on steroids forth and
you're building kind of thesetemplates that you could have
done years ago.
But then there's the brains, ifyou will, and I don't want to

(46:21):
make anyone think that AI rightnow general AI, but it shows
some smarts.
It can certainly fool a highschool student if you will high
school level education intothinking that there's a real
person building that and,ultimately, love or hate AI.
I think it's to the point whereit's.
How do I say this?
It's a tool that you're goingto need to use one way or

(46:42):
another.
It is going to speed up yourlife.
Do I think it's going to takesome jobs?
Yes.
Do I think it's going to buildsome?
Yes, but I think you and yourown person, wherever you are in
your level or past, bring itback to the career here.
Just life in general.
Like all these tools in ourpocket, as you mentioned, it
speeds up.
I've been using perplexitymyself and things that I never

(47:03):
would have searched for, neverwould have bothered with in a
conversational way with thelikes of Siri or any of these
others.
Now I'm like okay, I'm going toask it and it's going to give
me a reasonable synopsis of whatI'm interested in.
So, yeah, I mean, I couldprobably go on and on.

Yeah, no, thank you, reed.
That's really good.
That's really good input, and Iagree with you.
You know around the job, so I'mgoing to share my perspective
on this.
Customer service pros Watch out.
Okay, ai is coming for your joband it's going to probably win.
Just so you know.
That doesn't mean tier three ortier four is in trouble, all

(47:46):
right, but if this stuff can bebuilt and invested in, I'm
telling you there are thousandsand thousands of people in India
and in the Philippines, youknow, and other places here in
the United States that are notgoing to have a job as a
customer service rep anymore.
It's going to go away.
I don't think it's going to begone in 24 months and I don't
think it's going to be gone foreverybody, but at least from the
demo that they showed with Saks, I mean, if they can get 80%

(48:09):
close to that kind of anexperience, you're going to
retain so many more customers,right?
Because people hate callingsupport, because it's a pain in
the neck.
You know that you're beingrecorded.
You know that you can't swearor they'll hang up on you, right
, seinfeld?
It's just, it's a thing, andyou can't get your answer.
You can get your answers fasterand there's no way.

(48:31):
And if there's one thing Ican't stand, it's waiting.
I hate waiting.
I hate waiting in line.
I just absolutely it's my, it'smy.
I don't know what you call it,it's my bad thing, I'm just.
If I could jump in here, josh.

Yeah, go ahead.
I sit here and I you know I'veworked enough, helped set up
enough call centers and otherthings.
I think what you're getting atthere is I know that from my
call center experience thatthere's like a rep that's
working four or five differentconversations.
That's how they work chat right, because they know that you as
a customer are going to have togo fumble and find your account
number and all this stuff.

(49:05):
So they toggle between multiplechats.
So I know that in my experience.
So I give a little more leewaywhen I'm on a chat.
I don't become a Karen, if youwill.
No offense to the Karens outthere but I know that they're
bouncing between conversationsand lose context.
Right, they pasted in thewindow something that was meant
for someone else.
But I think what you're gettingthere with the speed is yes,

(49:27):
sometimes you click this and youthink, oh, the prompt took 4.25
seconds, good Lord.
You're comparing that to a CSRthat's in four different
conversations and they're notgoing to see yours for a minute
and you're going to forget thatyou're even in that chat, yeah,
or five minutes.

I mean, I just went through this with I forget
what product it was the otherday one of those platforms, some
platform.
So, yeah, like, watch out,that's not the career to invest
in.
It's great if you're making thejump from the gas station to
the customer service and nowyou're going to go get an office
job you know what I mean likeyou can do that, steven, you did

(50:03):
customer support, I think, fora little while, and tech stuff,
um, back in the day.
So nothing wrong with the job,it's just it's it's repetitive,
um, and predictable.
And if something's repetitiveand predictable, you can
automate that right.
So I would watch out there.
I think that we're going to haveto be paying attention to
marketing, right?

(50:24):
Marketing is already changing,guys.
The life of a marketinginitiative seems to be
collapsing much faster.
And I'll give you an example.
I used this the other day onFred's show.
You an example.
I used this the other day onFred's show.
But you know, I get I don't know12 to 15 emails a day that say

(50:48):
Josh comma.
Quick question Could you usesix to eight more clients a
month?
Right, they all are saying thesame thing they're getting the
same thing Cause they all askedthe same AI.
You know, large language LMLwhat do you call it?
Large language LLM?
They all ask GPT or perplexityor whatever.
Like, hey, I'm a marketer, Ineed to sell this shit and you
know I need to.
I want a series of you knowfive long tail email string.

(51:09):
This is what I'm trying to do.
Give me the very best one andit's going to come out.
Josh, comma, quick question.
And so it doesn't take but acouple months of seeing this
stuff fall through to see it gofrom like, oh yeah, that's a
good idea, that, hey, that's agood subject line, and now
you're seeing it multiple timesa day.
What was that?
Three months Now, everybody'sdoing it.
And then how do you get AI offof that?

(51:31):
It's almost like it gets aperseveration right.
It's like this idea that thisis the right message gets not
just will knock around in AI'sbrain, you know, forever, and so
you keep getting the samegarbage out.
So I'd be pay attention to that.
I think, with products likeJasper and, of course, gbt and
some of the you know, claude,and like some of these other

(51:53):
products, just marketers ingeneral are are you know you can
crank out a podcast.
You can crank out a podcast.
I forget what it was called.
My friend sent it to me Ericwho's on the show with me and
Fred talks about this and hetried it out.
It's some new Google thing,google something and he, you
know, put in a few prompts anddropped in a bit of information,

(52:15):
turned that into a blog, tookthe blog, dropped it into this
other product, recorded hisvoice a bunch of times and now
there's a podcast of someonehaving a conversation in this
podcast and he didn't have tosay anything and it took like I
don't know 18 minutes orsomething, or 10 minutes, and

(52:37):
now he's got a 20-minute podcast.
It's just all produced by AIwith some inputs.
So we're going to see that moreand more and it's kind of crazy
.
So careful marketing.
You know someone's like oh, Iwant to get into marketing.
So what kind?
Well, what are you going to do?
Oh, you want to do copyrightand like no, like I would be
like don't do it, don't do it.
I mean, if it's your dream towrite copy, then go for it.
But you might be.

(52:58):
You know that that job might besimilar to like trying to get
work as an actor in LA, you knowlike some people get to do it,
but not most people, so I'd becareful of that.
Let's talk about the ecosystemNow.
I asked a lot of people and I'mhoping that I can produce
another podcast from myinterviews at Zoe cocktail on on

(53:20):
Howard, just just down the roadfrom the event, and I got a
chance to ask a lot of smartpeople a couple of the same
questions.
So I'm going to put thattogether and we'll be exploring
this a little bit more.
But I don't think that there'sgoing to be an immediate impact
on the ecosystem.
Okay, as far as like admins,like fewer admins, certainly

(53:41):
right now we already know thatthere are.
You know there are a lot ofadmins and not as much demand as
there was one or two years ago.
In fact, it's very low comparedto two years ago.
So I don't think it's going toaffect too many folks.
I really think it's going toaffect the others.
Right, the marketing,potentially sales Like it's

(54:03):
going to be very good at salesfor small ticket retail type
items or even maybe smallsubscription things.
But you know, if you're sellingsomething that's 20, $30,000,
and you're not talking to a realperson, good luck.
I don't think it's going topenetrate that market, but it
may help.
It may qualify leads right, orit may warm people up to

(54:24):
penetrate that market, but itmay help.
It may qualify leads right, orit may warm people up to the
idea to buy your product orservice.
So there's changes coming, butwhere they exist, it's going to
be a different rate, a differentpace.
Right Banking, I already know,is way slower.
On AI, it's way slower.
Right Versus somebody who'strying to sell t-shirts or
whatever.
Okay, that's all I had to sayabout that.
What do you guys think?

(54:45):
Vanessa?
sorry, I couldn't find my mutebutton oh okay, I was like oh my
god, I just got ghosted on myown show.

That's weird I mean, I agree with everything
you said.
We're talking about the it's.
I don't think it's going tochange admins like immediately.
I mean, ultimately, at the endof the day, businesses that run
Salesforce need to clean uptheir data first.
That's the thing that I thinkwe get all excited about, all

(55:12):
the bells and whistles, but itcomes down to they need
governance first so that itdoesn't go haywire, and that
they need to clean up their dataand we're not focusing on that
enough and that's why it's goingto take some time.
But it will get there, becausethe companies that do clean up
their data, that want to getahead and are going to start
bringing in those businessanalysts.
I was talking about Data Cloud alittle while back with Ian

(55:36):
Gotts.
I did a panel for Elementsrecently because I just passed
my Data Cloud cert and like 90%of implementing data cloud is
going to be using businessanalysis, because you have to be
able to understand how yourdata is supposed to work.
You know you need to ask theright questions so that you can
architect it properly.
90% of that is that, and then10% is the actual implementation

(55:58):
.
The actual implementation, andso I almost feel like maybe it
is going to be the era, finally,of the business analysts, or
like the folks you know, theteam soft skills, who can craft
you know the things well, thatcan craft the prompts that we
need, that can think throughstrategically like the
strategizing portion of it, Ithink, is going to be more and

(56:19):
more valuable as we start movingmore and more into this era.

That's a soundbite right there, vanessa.
That's good, that's really goodstuff, brandon.

Yeah, I'm a firm believer that it is another
solution in the toolkit.
I don't think it's going toreplace jobs or underline
responsibilities.
I think the expectations out ofa business analyst or an admin
are just that much more elevatednow.
Right, the expectation thatyou're a digital athlete, that

(56:50):
you can know enough about allthese solutions to connect the
dots, and so you don't have tobe an expert and certified
tomorrow, and Asian force and AIand everything that is the AI
platform.
But you need to know, toVanessa's point, how you would
go about it.
How would you tackle it, whatwould you look at?
What type of research would youdo?

(57:11):
How would you think about datagovernance?
And so I think it's justanother tool in the toolkit to
become a digital athlete, and Ithink customers and partners
expect that, especially as theirtech stack.
You know, when Salesforcestarted 20, 25 years ago, one, a
single cloud or multi-cloudcustomer took many years to kind
of leg into those multipleproducts.
But now you're seeing techstacks at organizations that are

(57:31):
60, 70, 80, 100% Salesforceright, so that that means
they're on five, six, seven,eight, 12, 20 different
applications all withinSalesforce.
So the ability to be thatathlete that can connect the
dots is gone are the days ofjust a general admin that's
doing password resets andbuilding reports.

(57:52):
But you have to be, toVanessa's point, a business
analyst on top of an admin withsome light development skills,
whether that's declarative or alittle bit of code.
But the expectation, I think,is that you can navigate this
ecosystem and you can approachthese different topics and
research them and then providereadouts back to your clients,

(58:13):
your executives, your team.
So I think this is going tochallenge folks to kind of stay
on top of the curve.

I like it.
You know, I had an interestingconversation yesterday with a
young guy who has an AI startupand their idea is managed
services.
It's they build.
They have built some sort of AImachine that acts like an admin
, and so what they would do isthey have a live person

(58:41):
interfacing with the client andthen that person takes direction
, connects their system to thecustomers, they put the inputs
in and then the AI admin doesthe rest.
So what might take someone aweek, it can do in a day.
It's going to be faster.
I think that there's a lot ofproblems with it, but you know

(59:04):
that probably haven't beenfleshed out yet, but that's
coming too right.
That is not what agent force isdesigned to do.
Agent force is not to replacean admin, but there are people
out there right now with fieldsand fields of code monkeys
cranking out products that areactually designed to do just
that Right, and I always feltlike at some point the admin in

(59:31):
the way that we have known ittraditionally, say up until
about two or three years ago.
Not this badass BA, slashconsultant, slash admin, super
admin, but in the terms of justlike yep, I'm the admin.
Just like going back to oldsysadmin days in the early 2000s
.
That position would at somepoint be commoditized by AI and

(59:51):
I think it's starting to happen.
I don't know how fast it'sgoing to happen and I'm not sure
that it's going to affect a tonof people, but if it takes less
than 10% or 15% of the market,I'd be shocked.
You know it's going to havesome kind of an effect.

Brandon Stein (01:00:06):
Yeah, and I think the expectation to do more with
less applies to us inSalesforce roles, as Salesforce
consultants or Salesforce BAs orarchitects, is you have to know
enough, on the surface, of allof these different solutions to
be valuable and dangerous.
but you don't need to be anexpert.
You don't need to be certifiedand have Reid's experience.
You know implementing contactcenters, you know a dozen times

(01:00:29):
through.
But you need to know enoughabout these solutions and
products to be agile and anathlete right, because the
ability to be broad but alsohave some level of
specialization it's there right.
And when you get hired oryou're interviewing customers or
they're looking for thatspecialist or they're looking
for that general athlete right.
So you can't just be a generic.

(01:00:51):
You know functional adminanymore right, for better or for
worse.

Vanessa Grant (01:00:55):
So can I?
So, brandon, I see that you'relike a digital transformation
guy and I actually really likeyour like digital athlete.
You know it's like not evenlike Salesforce specific.
So, this being a career showwhere, besides AI because I
think it's obvious thatcertainly at some point
everybody is going to have toincorporate AI as part of their

(01:01:17):
learning journey in theircareers learning journey in
their careers as far as digitaltransformation goes, because I
know a lot of people, especiallywith the layoffs that have
happened and the market the waythat it's evolving what are some
other areas outside ofSalesforce that you think would
be beneficial for folks lookingto move up in their careers?

Yeah, that's a great question.
I use that term, digitalathlete.
I've used it for years to kindof think about my own experience
.
But even at these blue chip youknow, mckinsey, bcg, bain
worlds, where they're wantingthat relevance across the tech
stack, it's the functional usecase relevance, vanessa.
So you're seeing every function, whether it's finance,

(01:01:59):
marketing, sales, service isbecoming productized or digital,
right.
So if you have relevance in asingle function, like customer
service or marketing, I wouldchallenge you to find an
adjacent function, right.
If you're a marketer andthere's a lot of scrutiny on
marketing, how do you justifyROI?
How do you value that spend?

(01:02:21):
Maybe finance is the adjacency?
I would just challenge you tofind an adjacent function
whether it's ops, finance, hr,you name it and just get
relevant from a use caseperspective in that adjacent
function.
So then you're no longer just amarketer, right, but you're a
marketer that can connect thedots to finance and articulate
the ROI of why we should investin this marketing campaign, for

(01:02:43):
instance, just to give anexample.
So I think when I use the worddigital athlete, it's the
functional and use caserelevance around technology, but
not being so individuallysiloed within a function,
because I think when companiesare hiring.
Today you're seeing just ablurring and Josh sees more of
this than I do, but at least onthe consulting side and in my

(01:03:06):
experience you're seeing ablurring of the lines across
functions.
We want a marketer, but theycan also do sales and service
automation, or we want acustomer service guy that also
can speak to finance on ROIright.
So you're seeing this blurringof the functional silos and I
think if you can be that dotconnector and understand how
what you do in your role impactsthe adjacent functions, that's

(01:03:30):
where you start to become reallyvaluable and that's where you
start to become that digitalathlete that I was speaking
about.
So that's just some advice andmaybe filtered or unfiltered,
where I would kind of thinkabout your career.
If you're in a functional,single, functional role today,
love that.
Hopefully that was helpful.

Josh Matthews (01:03:46):
Yeah, of course it's helpful and I love that
term too.
I don't know if you coined itor not, but if you did, you know
you should go get a trademarkbuddy, because that's a very
cool term.
We're going to be wrapping theshow up in just a little bit,
but everyone stick around,because what I want to ask
Brandon now it's a little bitmore about Brandon and general
career, much like the questionVanessa just asked.

(01:04:07):
So, brandon, you've had thisstoried career and in my eyes,
you're still young.
You know you're in the meat ofyour work days, but you're still
young.
You've accomplished an awfullot in your work life so far.
If there is one or two bits ofadvice or maybe moments where

(01:04:28):
you were faced with criticaldecisions that you had to make
and you made the right ones,maybe you could just share what
your experience was like.
Or maybe the best piece ofadvice you ever got as far as
career, whatever.
That might be Kind of curious.
Yeah, it's interesting becauseyou hear this got as far as
career, whatever.
That might be.

Kind of curious.
Yeah, it's interesting becauseyou hear this term early in your
career and I started atDeloitte Consulting, a blue chip
consultancy, and they teach youthe value of your network and
you are starting your personaland professional brand at a big
four.
You don't start to see thevalue of those relationships in
that network until you start toprogress in your career and it

(01:05:03):
starts to become a little bitmore who you know than what you
know, and so that becomes morereal with each job transition or
each company.
So I would say, just nurturethat network and spend time
reconnecting and connecting withformer colleagues, friends,
mentors, etc.
And then the other thing thatI've developed over the last

(01:05:26):
decade is a mentorship or justtrusted guidance counselor,
sounding board, someone that'sunfiltered, that I trust, almost
like a brother or a father thatis going to tell me the truth
and sort of be my gut check whenI'm thinking of this role, or I
have this opportunity, or hey,my startup's not going well.

(01:05:49):
Should I give up?
I think, having that trustedcircle of advisors and it can be
two, three, four people itdoesn't have to be a lot that
you sort of look up to and keep.
You give to it as much as youreceive from it.
I think that will go such along way in your career and sort
of be that sanity check thatyou're looking for.

(01:06:11):
And then I'll leave.
The last piece of advice, joshand I think you know this about
me is anytime you can open up acareer door for someone, whether
it's an opportunity, or justintroducing them to Josh
Matthews, or just getting theirresume to the recruiter, or just
introducing them to a friendwho you know is hiring, even if
it doesn't directly lead to ajob next week or next month,

(01:06:31):
people will always remember whenyou've opened up a career door
for them, and it is somethingthat is life changing, right.
It will never be forgotten whenyou find a career path or career
opportunity for someone andthey feel like they can never
pay you back in any way, shapeor form, and so it's something
that sticks with people for therest of their lives, and so I
think it's one of those powerfulkind of secret cheat codes that

(01:06:53):
teaches you, especially in thisjob market that's highly
transient and highly fickle andkind of all over the place,
right, josh, especially in ourecosystem, if you can just do
that and open up that one doorfor someone, it'll pay dividends
for years and years down theroad in ways that you least
expected it right.
There's situations andexperiences I almost completely
forgot about and 10, 15 yearslater come full circle and say,

(01:07:16):
hey, brandon, remember when thatand kind of my memory and it's
sort of like tickles my heartand it makes me think about you
know, hey, you really do get outof this ecosystem what you put
into it.

So just don't forget about putting in that
effort and time to help othersthat are looking magnificent.
I mean it's, that is wonderful.
I just want to like echo that athousand times.
It is the most powerful thingthat you can do.
Look, helping someone, helpingsomeone, whatever it is right,
like John.
We were hanging out with John.
My son, my youngest, goes toUniversity of Tampa and they all

(01:07:48):
just evacuate, right, becauseof this storm that's coming, and
I'm standing there talking toJohn and John's like brother,
I'm five minutes away from there, he needs anything.
I'm five minutes away likewhatever you need, cause I'm
like three hours away, right,he's anything.
I'm five minutes away likewhatever you need because I'm
like three hours away, right,he's like whatever you need,
I'll be there like to offer that.
People don't offer that and notmean it.
Yeah, people who wouldn't meanit would never, ever say that.

(01:08:09):
And people who say that I meanyou think I'll ever forget that
about john.
There's no way now.
That's not a career door,that's looking after my kid.
It's like I can feel moresecure that if someone needs to
go help him out of a jam orwhatever like that, john's there
and I trust John.
But it's the same idea you openup a door for someone's career.
I remember I probably told thisstory before there was.

(01:08:32):
What was it?
It was like you know someone's,you know friend's husband.
He just left the military.
He was a captain no-transcript,he didn't like me talking to

(01:09:07):
him like that.
I mean, he'd been a captain,probably got a lot of respect
for a lot of years in themilitary right and he didn't
like that, thought it wastrivial.
Well, I found this out.
It was three years later.
I ran into him at some party andhe comes up to me and he's like
dude, do you remember meetingme?
I was like yeah, buddy.
He's like do you remember howyou told me to take my coat off?

(01:09:27):
I'm like yeah, he's like I wasso annoyed with you, I didn't
like you at all, he just said it.
He said then he went and becamea state trooper and he was with
his group of whatever 20recruits and he was the only one
who went into this one part ofthe interview where he took his

(01:09:48):
coat off.
He was the only one who tookhis coat off for this one
interview and they looked at himand just said, nope, you're
good, you're fine, fine.
And everybody else had to gothrough another hour of
questions and he said he askedhim he's like, well, what's the
deal?
He's like, you took your coatoff, you got comfortable, you
got real.
So he you know he's telling methis at a party of like

(01:10:09):
something that annoyed him threeyears ago, that I just happened
to say whatever, I'm justtrying to help the guy out Like
not a big deal, but it made abig difference for him.
He would have been a statetrooper anyway without Josh
Matthews.
I know that, okay, it wouldhave been fine, but it just made
him feel better and itseparated him out of the crowd
and probably in the eyes ofthose folks too, and that can
have impacts that last in acareer like that.

(01:10:30):
So I'm with you, man, and Ilove that advice.
I'm so glad we had you on theshow today.
I'm so glad I got to spend timewith you at Dreamforce.
So glad I got to spend timewith Vanessa, with our clients,
with our prospects.
Thank you everybody, anyonewho's listening to this show,
who came by and said hi toVanessa or gave her a pat on the
back or went to one of hersessions.

(01:10:52):
Thank you, anyone who you know,shouted my name or whatever,
saw me and gave a wave and said,hey, keep it up.
I can't even tell you, like,what that means, cause we, you
know people don't say that onthe show and you know, once in a
while we get a like on thepodcast and that's nice.
But hearing it in person from areal person, gosh, that may
makes my day and I'm going to doa special shout out.

(01:11:14):
Whoever it was and you might belistening whoever it was that
hollered out to me, walking pastme at the Pink concert.
I thought that was really coolman that made my night.
The concert I wasn't too into,but that made my night and I'm
glad I went, if only for that.
So thank you very much.
It made me feel good for therest of the night.
Any last parting words here,vanessa, before we peel off away
from Agent Force and Dreamforceand other forces.

Just to echo what you and Brandon were talking
about, I happen to have a12-minute recording on my phone
from when a dear friend namedJosh Matthews helped me sort
through some career stuff lastweek.
So thank you, josh, for beingpart of my crowdsourcing of good
judgment when it comes tocareers.
You know, I think that is superimportant.

(01:11:58):
Thank you, You're welcome.

You're welcome, Brandon.
Any final shout-outs to the DFcrew who might be listening to
this.

Yeah, I just really enjoyed finally, after so
many years, josh, joining youon the Infamous podcast, and it
was so great to reconnect withyou and so many other friends
and colleagues at Dreamforce,happy to be a resource and a
sounding board for anyone.
At any time, feel free tocontact me.
I'm sure Josh will tweet out orpost contact information, but

(01:12:27):
love doing this, would love todo it again and, josh, whatever
I can do to support your effortsand ecosystem, please let me
know.

Thanks so much, brandon, and thank you, too,
reed, for coming on the show.
We're going to have to talk man, because I just registered for
Life Sciences Dreaming up inPhilly.
I'll be there the 9th throughthe 11th.
I'm going to be on a planeduring this show, so we're going
to have to figure out what todo.
I'll also be at FloridaDreamin' next week in Clearwater
.
I think that's from the 5ththrough the 7th, or I don't even

(01:12:56):
know what the dates are.
I'd have to look here.
Yeah, it's the second throughthe fourth, so I'll be at
Florida Dreamin.
If you'd like to come to what isgoing to be a live recording of
this podcast, we might have itas an augmented episode, an
additional episode, withinOctober, but I'm going to be

(01:13:18):
recording live AMA Salesforcecareer show from Florida Dreamin
on Friday morning.
So if you're in the area, youwant to swing by.
If you're traveling to Floridafor the event, I promise you
this is a great time to hang outwith me and some other smart
folks.
I know I just accidentallycalled myself smart.
Okay, I am a little bit, butnot too much.
I'm not the smartest guy I knowfor sure, definitely not, but

(01:13:41):
me and some people who can helpyou with your career or help you
with your team or help you withyour hiring or just help get
your head on straight, thatthing right.
Because, let's face it, thishas been a challenging year in
the ecosystem for careers.
Can we all agree on that?
Let's see a show of hearts realquick.
Yeah, look, salesforce Ben.
He's got a new, you know worldreport on the state of the

(01:14:03):
ecosystem.
10 K advisors you can findtheir report.
You can go to 10 K viewcom.
They've got a new report.
They've got their annual salaryand compensation report and
what we're seeing is about 80%down.
Demand is down about 80% fromlike two years ago.
Okay, that's what's up, that'swhat's up.
That doesn't mean that thereisn't hidden demand.
Maybe, you know, they just say,hey look, we can hire people,

(01:14:25):
but we can't afford to advertiseon Indeed or we can't afford to
advertise on LinkedIn or keepit on the DL, or I only want to
talk to people that you alreadyknow.
Like, we don't know what that,what the real number is.
We're still in business, soit's not can't be that bad,
right?
So you know it can't be thatbad, but it's not what it was
and it never will be right.
That post-COVID bump thateveryone rode for a little while

(01:14:48):
.
That's over.
We might see something likethat in 15 or 20 years, I don't
know.
I don't expect it in the next10.
I definitely don't expect it inthe next 10 unless something
crazy happens.
So if you're brand new, explorea lot of different options.
It's one of the things that BenMcCarthy says at Salesforce.
Ben, we got to hang out for alittle bit this past week.
He's such a good guy and Ireally love this article about.

(01:15:09):
Should you even get into theecosystem right now?
I think it's a very good blog.
Just go to sfbencom and checkit out.

One quick little DF24 funny thing.
So Salesforce Ben McCarthyactually DJ'd at this big party,
the club thing that they hadthe DJ before.
That was not that great andprobably the best line I heard
all of Dreamforce was.
We were like man, when is DJSalesforce Ben going to get on?
Because right now thisparticular DJ is like the

(01:15:39):
soundtrack to my last Salesforceproject and as a salesperson
that was my favorite line ofDreamforce I think right there
it was so bad.

That's pretty funny.
I wasn't even paying attention.
So you were upstairs, Vanessa,and I was downstairs talking to
Brandon.

Oh yeah, it was that event.
Yeah, it was that event.

I'm glad the bad DJ did not distract your
conversation.

I'm glad the bad DJ did not distract your
conversation.

I'm glad too, by the way, vanessa can always be
found at the highest floor ofwhatever the event is, because
she was.
I was trying to find her atpink and she was like way up.
I'm like I don't do third tierat concerts.
What are you doing up there?
And then I guess she was secondfloor at the bend thing.
So, yeah, no, I don't mindstairs, I just don't like the

(01:16:23):
view.
So there you go.
All right, guys, last couplelittle housekeeping things.
So we've got these eventscoming up.
By the way, brandon, vanessa,reid, if you guys are going to
any upcoming events and you wantto share where people can meet
you in person, go ahead andshare right now.

I will be at the Dallas Dreamin' in December is
the next kind of road event Ihave.
I believe it's December 10thand I'm looking at potentially
the Florida Dreamin' event tosee John actually Josh.

Oh, really.
Oh, that'd be so fun.

Yeah, I think that's in October, so it should
be Florida Dreamin' and Dallas,that's next week.
Oh, it's next week.
Okay, that's next week, that'snext week?

Oh, it's next week.
Okay, it's next week.
Yeah, I might try and get us aboat if we can get there a
little early and go on a littleboat ride down the road.
That'd be kind of fun.
Cool, yeah, sweet.
No real events for me.

(01:17:29):
I'm going to stay home for abit.
But certainly, if anybody wantsto join my Salesforce BA
virtual community, we're goingto be doing an event on Tuesday,
but we're also going to bedoing events every month now.
So come join.
I love it.
And if you are a bad assdeveloper you've got some
solutioning chops, you know somea fair amount of solution
architecture chops and you'relooking for full-time contract,
probably six plus monthscontract, with a very
interesting robotics company,then I encourage you to apply.
You can find that job atthesalesforcerecruitercom.

(01:17:49):
Forward slash J-O-B, it'll beright there.
You can also send reach out toSteven Greger directly.
It's Steven with aV-S-T-E-V-E-N at
thesalesforcerecruitercom.
Please, green cards and citizensonly for this.
This is not going to be athird-party thing.
We really prefer if you're acitizen for this role, based on
the nature of the governmentcontracts that they work on.

(01:18:11):
So you probably actually needto be a citizen, possibly green
card, and if you live in NewYork City.
If you live in New York City,all the better.
If you live in Pittsburgh, thatworks too, because they've got
opportunities at both locations.
If you're in neither of thembut your east or central time
zone, that's fine.
We'll talk to you.
We'll talk to you and we'll seewhat's up.
We're also on the hunt for anonprofit consultant or an NPSP

(01:18:35):
consultant.
Someone who's probably beenaround the block a couple times
knows what's up, has worked atan SI for at least one or two
years.
At least one year, no SI, nojobby for you.
Okay.
So you got to have some actualconsulting experience, and this
is probably going to be in thatlike 120, 130, 135 plus bonus
kind of range, is our guess.
So that is still open as well.

(01:18:57):
So check that out and gosh,what else can I?
What else can I share?
I guess nothing.
So, oh, here we go.
Dongson Panon, who was our veryfirst person in the audience, is
inviting all of us to theinaugural conference of West
Africa Dreamin.
I think that's so cool, man,thank you.
Thank you for the invite.
I'd love to make it.
I'm not sure if I can, but Ithink that's so awesome Way to

(01:19:18):
go, bringing the dreaming eventsall the way to the dark
continent.
I love it, my friend.
Good for you on organizing that.
That's fantastic.
Okay, that's it for tonight,guys.
Thanks for listening and besure to like, subscribe, comment
, share all that othergobbledygook.
But it's a real thing, becauseit actually helps us to reach
more people, and more peoplenowadays need more help than

(01:19:39):
they did two years ago.
So let's do a good thing Like,subscribe, comment all that fun
stuff Until next time and readI'll get in touch with you about
two weeks from now.
We'll figure it out until nexttime.
Bye for now.

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