Mastering the Basics, Overcoming Burnout and Thriving in Salesforce

Ever wondered how mastering the basics before chasing certifications can catapult your Salesforce career? Tune in as we sit down with Matt Pieper to uncover why foundational knowledge is crucial for career advancement. Vanessa Grant also brings her inspiring stories from Dreamin' in Color, focusing on how the event empowers Salesforce professionals. Learn about the motivational keynote speaker who emphasized self-reliance and authenticity, offering invaluable advice for thriving in the Salesforce ecosystem.

Finally, we tackle the importance of continuous learning and breaking bad habits to amplify your success. Discover the necessity of broadening your skill set beyond certifications, encompassing foundational concepts in computer science and data modeling. Through practical advice on networking, personal branding, and self-trust, this episode delivers insight for anyone looking to excel in their Salesforce career.

Episode Transcript

Matt Pieper (00:00):
Part of my side is certs are great if you know the
knowledge right.
Get the knowledge, understandit and then get your cert,
because it makes it so mucheasier than just cramming for a
piece of paper, especially ifyou don't even know if you'll
like it right.

Announcer (00:23):
And now the number one audio program that helps you
to hire, get hired and soarhigher in the Salesforce
ecosystem.
It's the Salesforce Career Showwith Josh Matthews and Vanessa
Grant.

Josh Matthews (00:38):
Welcome everybody .
We have a special guest, mattPiper no F.
He's on the show.
What's up, matt?

Matt Pieper (00:44):
Hey, not too much of myself.

Josh Matthews (00:46):
Doing great.
We're going to do a littleintro for you in just a moment.
We've got Vanessa Grant back inthe saddle.
Welcome, Vanessa.

Vanessa Grant (00:53):
Hi, I'm just going to start.
Sorry, josh, it was Matt Pieper.

Josh Matthews (00:57):
Pieper, not Piper .

Vanessa Grant (00:58):
Yeah, pieper, am I right, Matt?

Matt Pieper (01:01):
Yeah, yeah, like I said, I roll with it, so I
appreciate the call.
Yeah, at least we should get itright.

Josh Matthews (01:05):
Wait, you roll with Peeper or you roll with
Piper.

Matt Pieper (01:07):
Peeper is the correct one, yep, all right.

Josh Matthews (01:09):
All right, got it .
Okay, god, I have messed upevery guest's name for probably
six months.
Right, you're like this guy's arecruiter, get out of here.
Well, we've got an interestingshow.
We're going to get some updatesfrom Vanessa on her experiences
recently at Dreamin' in Color.
I think, peter, you might wantto pipe up, talk a little bit

(01:32):
about Life Sciences Dreamin'that's going to be coming up.
We've got Salesforce Dreamforceon the horizon, and first we'll
just start with a coupleannouncements.
First of all, I didn't see muchin the way of news this last

(01:52):
week related to Salesforce.
I mean, there's someshareholder stuff.
I guess Benioff had put forthhis compensation plan or
shareholders' compensation plan.
Shareholders rejected it.
That's the only stuff reallygoing on.
And then it's all the usual AI,data cloud, partnering with IBM
and things like that.
Otherwise, no real massive news.
For those who might be listeningfor the first time, or maybe
they didn't catch the last liveshow or last week's podcast,

(02:15):
which was all about happiness,which I hosted with Andrea Allen
, we have a new website and youcan find it at
salesforcecareershowcom.
On there you'll find pastguests.
You'll see future guests thatare coming on.
You can also request to be aguest.
Just fill out a little form,shoot it over to us and we'll

(02:36):
have a little look, talk to youand see what being a guest might
be like here on the show.
We're excited to have Matt inthe house.
When we posted this on LinkedIn, a bunch of people were like
Yay, matt Pieper fantastic,can't wait for the show.
So he's here right now.
I'll go ahead and give him anintroduction, then we're going
to go ahead and dive in, I think.
First I want to catch up onDreamin' in Colors.

(02:56):
Let's just go there right now.
How was it, vanessa?

Vanessa Grant (02:59):
Oh, it was really great.
I mean, I feel like I burnedout pretty hard after TDX in
March and so this was my firstconference where I'm like okay,
I'm back, I'm going to do this.
I had two speaking sessions,but it was really motivational.
And just for folks that don'tknow, dreamin' in Color it's in
a different location every year.
I believe this is the thirdyear that they were doing it.

(03:20):
It was in New Orleans and it'sreally geared towards Salesforce
professionals of color.
They mostly black, but alsothis year they had Sonia in
color, which is the Latina trackwhich I was on.
Despite my Vanessa Grant name,I am half Colombian.
So it was really great and Ithink it was a good chance for

(03:43):
people to connect with eachother, to network.
There were a lot of greatvendors there and a lot of great
sessions, but I would say a lotof it was also very empowering.
I think you know, a lot of times, especially in technology, it
can feel a little intimidatingin certain spaces.
I mean, I know on a daily basisI will oftentimes be the only

(04:06):
female, certainly the onlyLatina female.
It can be a little bit, I mean,not like a blocker or anything
like that, but certainly it'snice sometimes to feel like
you're with people who can allunderstand where you're coming
from in this ecosystem and thatmaybe you don't look like
everybody else.
And what are the ways that wecan elevate people that are in

(04:29):
our networks?
What are ways that we canempower ourselves?
How do we bring our authenticselves to work, especially when
maybe we've been told that ourauthentic selves wouldn't mean
good things for us in ourcareers?
Plus, also a lot of reallygreat Salesforce content.
I sat in on an analytics course.
I did a whole 45-minuteworkshop on user stories.

(04:50):
Yeah, there was a lot of reallygreat content as well.
So good Salesforce networkingand technical content and, I
would say, general careerguidance and empowerment.

Josh Matthews (05:02):
That's terrific.
I mean, what was the biggesthighlight, would you say?
Was there someone's sessionthat just really hit the mark
Like, oh man, this is, this isDreamforce, worthy content,
anything like that.

Vanessa Grant (05:16):
Oh gosh, you know what the the opening keynote.
I heard so many people talkingabout this guy.
He's not a Salesforce guy, he'slike I think he's a
communications guy for the NAACPand just such an engaging
speaker and everybody was in theroom and everybody could relate
to things that he was saying.
Just talking about how you knowthe like, how he at one point

(05:43):
he did something.
He was like all right,everybody, look up into the sky,
what do you see?
Well, what you don't see is asuperhero Cause nobody's going
to see of you.
You have to be your own, youknow, and and just stuff like
that where he was just somotivational and just the way
that he talked through things.
Everybody left that openingkeynote feeling really excited,

(06:03):
just I mean.
But I think that's just thepower of a really engaging
speaker.
Who his name was, was it?
Oh shoot, it was like Trayvon,let me, I'll find it, but I
think maybe Williams, but I will, I will find it.
But yeah, he was, he was justso, he was so good.
I'm gonna find his name and I'msure that he's done a ton of
speaking sessions before, butgosh, he, he, he really kicked

(06:26):
us off so so beautifully.

Josh Matthews (06:29):
I love that.
Yeah, you know, inspiration cancome from so many areas and you
know, one of the things that'sreally interesting about
inspiration is how long does itlast?
Right, when we get inspired,inspiration it's just the
kickoff, like this is the thingfor me to take action on this
thing right now, typically, andthen it carries its own momentum

(06:52):
, right?
You know, it's a reallypowerful thing and I think it's
a lot of the reason why peoplego to dream and events and
follow certain YouTubers and,you know, get personal coaches
and this sort of thing, becauseeven though we're all capable of
so much and even so much morethan than we've already achieved
, it's very difficult to to seethat.

(07:14):
But inspiration is, is kind ofthat juice, it's that rocket
fuel that says you can do it,you know.

Vanessa Grant (07:22):
Yeah, and I think so I found his name it's Trevon
T-R-O-V-O-N-C.
Williams, and he's acommunications executive.
We're at the NAACP and what wasalso really great was to hear
from him, who you know he isconstantly in situations where
he's nervous sometimes about themessaging that he has to put

(07:43):
out and the backlash that mightcome from it.
And hearing how somebody who iscoming to us so confidently
still is scared before he doesthings but saying do the things
that are scary.
You know, be okay to pivot, beokay to fail, but be okay to
stretch yourself, because that'swhere growth happens, that's

(08:04):
where authenticity happens.
Yeah, that guy blew me away andI think he blew a lot of folks
away that were that were there.
It was a really fantasticsession.

Josh Matthews (08:13):
That's terrific, and had you been to, had you
been to New Orleans before.

Vanessa Grant (08:17):
I've been to New Orleans before, but just for for
personal stuff.
This is the first time I wentfor a conference.
But they had a great.
The opening party is.
They call it the cookout it's.
They had it at the FrenchQuarter at a really lovely
restaurant with, you know,crawfish and great seafood and
open bar.
They even had, like a NewOrleans like jazz band come in

(08:40):
towards the end, lots of dancing.
Yeah, it was really.
It was a good time was a goodtime, it's a, it's a good
conference.
So it's besides the inspirationand the technical expertise and
the great vendors.
There was also a really goodtaste of the new orleans culture
while we were there.
But uh, and they're taking a, apoll now to see if it's gonna
be in new orleans next year.

(09:01):
Maybe they'll move to.
They were even talking aboutmoving to, like puerto.
Oh, wow, so we'll see It'll be.
It was.
It was a really great.
It was a really great session.
And then I did a road trip fromDreamin' in Color to Southeast
Dreamin'.
I didn't go to SoutheastDreamin', but I did drop off Pei
.
Sure, I know, pei, was it fromLondon yeah?
Yeah Me.
Pei and Susanna from Salesforcejust go into Graceland in

(09:25):
Dollywood.

Josh Matthews (09:26):
Oh, that's right.
How was Graceland?

Vanessa Grant (09:29):
Depressing, to be honest.

Josh Matthews (09:31):
Yeah, I thought it might be.
Can you see some of that?
I know that we talked maybe amonth ago a little bit about how
it almost went under right,Like literally a matter of weeks
ago.
Did it feel that way?
Was it in disrepair a?

Vanessa Grant (09:46):
matter of weeks ago, did it feel that way?
Was it in disrepair?
Not in disrepair, but it wasvery sad, because Elvis's
grandparents are buried there,his parents are buried there,
he's buried there and now hisdaughter is buried there and his
grandchild is buried there.
So it's like five generationsof like people that were just
had really sad lives.

Josh Matthews (10:00):
Yeah.

Vanessa Grant (10:01):
Whereas, like, I went to Dollywood two days later
and Dollywood was full of joyand and and you know great
things.

Josh Matthews (10:07):
But, how many people are buried at Dollywood?

Vanessa Grant (10:11):
Uh, that I don't know.
Well, there you go.

Josh Matthews (10:13):
That starts.
It starts with that, right,yeah.

Vanessa Grant (10:18):
But, but I think it it goes to the one of the
things that I talked about inone of my sessions, which is the
idea of it is easier to ask forhelp and easier to network and
easier to be remembered whenyou're not with people on a
human level as, as you know,latinos, as as women, as moms,

(10:49):
as people that are really into Idon't know crochet, whatever it
is, sure you know it's it's alot easier to ask a friend for
help and support and guidancethan it is to ask somebody that
you throw on a pedestalprofessionally.

Josh Matthews (11:03):
Absolutely Well, and you've faced that before at
conferences, where people arelike, oh my God, I don't, I
can't believe I get to meet youRight, and you're like it's just
me, it's just me.
What are you talking about?

Vanessa Grant (11:14):
Yep, and I did that.
Actually, that happened to mealso at a Dreamin' in Color as
well.
I was like we're all justSalesforce professionals here,
salesforce professionals here,like I'm just here as a
professional, you're here as aprofessional it's nice to meet
you.
Maybe we'll work togethersomeday.

Josh Matthews (11:26):
Looking forward to it you know, yeah, yeah, for
real, I don't suppose somedaythere'll be a catholic jew
dreamin event, which I woulddefinitely attend hey, you know
what.

Vanessa Grant (11:38):
Go for it, josh.
You can build that dreaminevent I.

Josh Matthews (11:42):
I've got enough on my plate right now.
I think I'll just go to acouple this year instead.
I think that makes sense.
I just want to do a quick shoutout.
Elizabeth Knott's on here withus.
Welcome, elizabeth, it's goodto see you again.
I think it's been a little bitso.

Vanessa Grant (11:55):
I'm going to throw you a little speaker
invite.

Josh Matthews (11:57):
If you want to pop on.

Vanessa Grant (11:59):
I saw Elizabeth at Dreaming in Color too.

Josh Matthews (12:01):
That's awesome.
Well, I'll tell you what I'venever been to New Orleans.
Casey's never been to NewOrleans, I don't think she has.
The most we know about NewOrleans is what we learned from
watching Queer Eye for theStraight Guy.
That's it.
I guess it all takes place inNew Orleans.
That's the most.
Anything that I know about NewOrleans at all is from that show
.
How sad, right.
But everyone I know who's beenthere just absolutely loves it

(12:23):
and really enjoys a visit.
I'm glad you got to go thereand have an incredible road trip
.
You've had a number ofincredible road trips this year
and it sounds like this was oneof them.

Vanessa Grant (12:32):
Yeah, it was great and just a shout out to
Tiffany Spencer and the rest ofthe organizers for a great event
.
I will say coming to this eventpost-burnout.
It was a really good place toComing to this event
post-burnout.
It was a really good place tofeel reignited in my love of
Salesforce and even just to getback on my Salesforce BA

(12:52):
community, which I started, gotimmediately burnt out and then
kind of turned into the oh myGod, so much anxiety around this
thing.
I'm re-motivated to get thingskicked off with my group and I
just took a poke into themembership, since I've only had
one session so far, which I'membarrassed about, but is
reality because of the burnout,I have over 500 members at this

(13:14):
point, people that are, I know,with only one meeting done.
So this is I'm re-motivated toget things kicked off and I'm
grateful to Dreaming in Colorfor making me re-engage with my
Salesforce experience.

Josh Matthews (13:31):
Yeah yeah, how many people attended?

Vanessa Grant (13:35):
Oh gosh, I don't actually know.
I want to say it was probablyover, I don't know, maybe like
1,000?
Really, maybe a little less.

Josh Matthews (13:44):
That's not small.
Yeah, it was a pretty bigconference.
That's a pretty-.

Vanessa Grant (13:46):
No, no, it's like I don't know.
It'd be like four tacos in myyeah, okay.

Josh Matthews (13:51):
So yeah, so that's almost a thousand, about
a thousand people.
Yeah, for real.
Okay, yeah, that's not nothing.
I like that.
Well, thank you for the updates.
I've got a little updateannouncement for any of our
listeners who might be hiringmanagers.
These are the folks thatunderstand that they're only as
good as the team that they build, that their career can only

(14:13):
grow and blossom based on thequality of people that they have
surrounded themselves with.
Part of that is selecting theright company to go to.
But if you're a hiring manager,it's really about the team that
you build, and that's what wedo with my company, which you
can find atthesalesforcerecruitercom.
We help leaders and managersmake really excellent decisions

(14:36):
on how to build the team oftheir dreams so that they can
have a happier life, they canhave more peace, they can
accomplish more, they can getthrough the hard stuff and they
can do it as a team with a lotof love and support and feel
feeling really good.
And so to help help support theecosystem, we are doing a
summer special.
The summer special is open tofive new clients and I'll tell

(15:00):
you what it is.
We've reduced our rates to just20% of base salary.
Six-month guarantee, six-monthpayment terms.
I don't think there is astaffing firm particularly
focused on the Salesforceecosystem that can come close to
that offer or come close to thequality of candidates that we
deliver to support these leaderswho are trying to do the right

(15:22):
thing by their companies, bytheir families and by the team
members that they already haveon staff.
So if you're listening to thisand you'd like to be one of the
five, I can tell you that it'snot a one-time deal, that those
terms will last for a full 12months for any of your hires
during that time, and the firstcome, first serve, right.

(15:45):
So if you're interested, youcan reach out to me, message me,
josh, at thesalesforcerecruitercom.
We'll have a conversation andsee if your firm and your needs
actually match with what we doand do really well.
So I wanted to put that outthere a little bit and now I'd
like to dive in with Matt Pieper.
I got it right this time.
I really have to pause and slowmyself down or else my

(16:05):
pronunciations just go out thewindow.
So Matt is the director ofenterprise engineering at
LeafLink, where he leads adynamic team responsible for
orchestrating the entire lead tocash process within a
marketplace.
His background is intraditional software engineering
.
That's what led him to exploreSalesforce development and
architect roles.
He oversees this talentedensemble of professionals

(16:28):
including backend Pythondevelopers, salesforce
developers, admins, architects,and, when you get beyond the
code a little bit, he's an avidtraveler.
He's a very passionatephotographer.
Matt.
You've got your own photographywebsite, don't you?
I sure do, he does, and that'swhat.
Where would people go for that?

Matt Pieper (16:45):
Yeah, it's literally mattpeepercom.
Or, of course, there's theInstagram, which is Matt Peeper
Photography.

Josh Matthews (16:51):
Okay, and Peeper is P-I-E-P-E-R P-I-E-P-E-R, not
the way I pronounce it.
Okay, and he's a devoted fosterdog parent.
So lucky dog to have you as his, as their dad.
Let's go ahead and dive in Now.
You worked at LeafLink.

Matt Pieper (17:10):
LeafLink.
Explain what they do.
Yeah, so LeafLink is amarketplace like most other
consumer packaged goodsmarketplaces where we match
retailers with buyers of goods,except we're in the cannabis
vertical.
So think of your localdispensaries that need their
pre-rolls, their flour, theirbabe cartridges from growers and

(17:33):
distributors within theirorganization.
So very niche market.
But we build both thosemarketplace solutions and
payment solutions for thesebusinesses and we're excited for
you know, several states comingonline this year.

Josh Matthews (17:46):
Every year man.
Every year it's like yeah, wegot three more states this year
and you know, five years fromnow you'll have them all
probably.

Matt Pieper (17:55):
Here's hoping.

Josh Matthews (17:56):
Yeah right, wonderful Now.
So how many years in total haveyou been operating inside of
the Salesforce ecosystem?

Matt Pieper (18:03):
Oh so Salesforce ecosystem.
First time I got thrown intothe deep end was 2009.
Now, so, man, what is that?
15 years, 15 years.

Josh Matthews (18:15):
That's right.
When the GFC was hitting thebig global financial crisis was
like oh yeah, let's do thisRight, so that's an interesting
time to get involved.
What was that like?

Matt Pieper (18:27):
It was interesting, right.
So I was just thinking theother day how much the
ecosystems changed.
You know both from technologyand both from you know the
resources available.
So you know, back in 2009, youknow there wasn't a single
consultancy in my state, or atleast one that we could afford,

(18:48):
so there was no leaning onpartners.
Then there was no trailhead.
So you read deep, deep in thetechnical documents and no
videos, no YouTube really.
So I think of it as the cavemandays of Salesforce, where
you're kind of poking around inthe dark and all learning
together.

Josh Matthews (19:09):
Yeah.

Matt Pieper (19:09):
So yeah, that's basically it in a nutshell.

Josh Matthews (19:12):
There you go.
I remember using Salesforce theyear it came out, 1999.
And I was working for a companycalled carclubcom.
It came eventually to be knownas carclub dot bomb because it
was part of the dot bomb.
That happened in 99 2000 andit's actually mentioned in
benioff's first book.

(19:32):
We talk about that client andman.
I did not like it.
I remember for years, I youknow I was at some points in my
career changing jobs and I wouldsay to like, you're not using
Salesforce, are you?
Because I don't want to usethat.
It was not fun to use,especially on a 56K DSL dial-up
right when you were used to muchmore responsive on-prem servers

(19:57):
and things like that.
Now, throughout your career Iimagine you've had certain
moments that have been wake-upcalls, aha moments, revelations.
What's a big aha moment thatyou've had in your career?

Matt Pieper (20:18):
You know, this is one of those self-deprecating
moments I think is the momentwhere I realized I don't know
everything, which makes me sound, like you know, some
egotistical.
You know, when you're, I think,in your 20s, right, you're
seeing the world from you know,a new perspective, you're

(20:38):
surrounded by other highperformers and you just take
everything and tackle it, right.
And you know I'd worked on andwe were consolidating a bunch of
paper forms and saving hundredsof hours of manual energy a
week.
But even though we rolled thatproject out and hit all of our

(21:00):
success metrics, I realized thatwe hadn't taken everybody along
for the ride and had the rightchange management and pushed
them to really understand whywe're doing it, to really
understand why we're doing it,and because of that, I mean, we
saved, you know, a lot of moneyfor the company.
But you know, most peoplethought the project was a

(21:20):
failure at the beginning.
Right, it took that time andenergy.
You know, saving it after thefact and explaining why we did
it for us to, you know, reallyhave that success story.
So you know, to kind of recap,right, that all-home moment for
me is to learn from others andreally lean into their skill set
.

Josh Matthews (21:38):
And you know, you don't know everything, so to be
curious and ask others, it'sreally great advice, and I think
, too, there's a lesson aboutpatience as well.
You know, the hard work that weoften do now might not pay off
for a very long time.
I remember when I launched thisbusiness.
It was maybe three or fourmonths after launching the

(22:00):
business that the website gotlaunched, and at the time I told
my developer I was like, look,no one's going to find me, just
whatever.
I just want some information upthere.
It's got to connect with my CRM, my ATS system, that kind of
stuff.
But I'm not expecting anyone tofind me.
And then we started to do someblogs and we started to do some

(22:21):
videos and we started to work onSEO a little bit and then kind
of forgot about it.
And I woke up two years laternumber one for the search
Salesforce recruiter and anumber of other things and it's
like, oh, it happened Like you.
Just you have to plant thoseseeds and then you got to let
them.
Let them grow under the ground.
It's growing, even if you don'tsee it, it's growing Right.

(22:44):
And so you've got to be patientfor those first um, for for all
that hard work you know to, towork on its own kind of feed
itself, get the natural energythat it needs to bust out, see
the light and then startoffering some, some good fruit,
some good nutrition right To abusiness.
And it sounds real similar tothis project that you worked on,

(23:05):
matt.

Matt Pieper (23:07):
Yeah, I think those are all all great points.
I think you know personally,right, as someone with ADHD uh,
patients isn ADHD, patienceisn't my virtue I need that
immediate dopamine hit and, as Ithink, transitioning from an
individual contributor engineerwhere I can literally see
results as I type them and codethem, that was a transition when

(23:28):
I became a people manager or aleader.
You're still building, you'restill growing those teams and
people, but instead of seeingthose results immediately, you
know it's that coaching andmentoring.
You know on a high performingteam that you might not see for
you know six months a year,three years, five years, and so
you know it is.
You know exactly, like you said, that patience and knowing that

(23:50):
you know even those micromovements you do each day have
an impact over the course of acareer.

Josh Matthews (23:55):
They do.
One of the things I saw on yourTwitter feed that I was really
impressed with was yourcommitment to learning a new
language using Duolingo and thatyou were ranked in the top 1%
of users in the last yearbecause of that daily practice,
that daily commitment.
What language are you learningand do you see a similarity

(24:16):
between your commitment toworking on that platform to
improve your language skills?
As you know, a way that peoplewho are listening to this show
can apply to their skill sets todevelop and get better as
employees in the Salesforceecosystem.

Matt Pieper (24:31):
Yeah, so my core language that I stick with
through and throughout isSpanish.
I picked it up in that habitbecause we were in Paris with my
spouse and she would literallyhave to order for me everywhere
we went, because the Frenchdon't love to speak English and

(24:51):
would rather prefer French, andI was just amazed at how, you
know well, she was able totraverse, and that inspired me
to pick up Spanish, a languagethat I've been taught for, you
know, 10 years in grade schooland retained zero of it, right?
So, yeah, so Spanish is my corefor the past.
You know three years now, andthen I, you know, mix in
languages as we travel aroundthe world.

(25:13):
So you know, we've done Italy,we, you know Italian, we've done
German, but Spanish is that dayto day.
But you know, that's prettymuch how I learned to code, too
right Is you know putting inthat effort day by day.
You know picking projects tolearn and putting in that.
You know those 10,000 hours,and so with Spanish, I do more
than duolingo.
You know I try to find, youknow, news, articles and music,

(25:36):
so I can help build thatpractice, which is to bring it
back to work.
Sadly, because we're americans,you know that's what I, you
know, teach people to do rightis as you learn a new language,
whether that's flow, whetherthat's you know, ba skills and
diagramming.
You know, don't just learn thebook materials.
Figure out those projects youcan execute and do it, because

(25:56):
that makes your brain think in adifferent way and actually has
you retain that knowledge.
But you know it's difficult tothink of those projects.
So I always say, you know, justborrow from work.
You know, if you're witnessingsomething you know, think how
would I build that differentlyand take it and lift it.
So that's really you know.
To wrap both up is I believe inyou know, that everyday

(26:17):
practice and building a habitand really that's how you
continue to grow that tree fromyour earlier analogy.

Josh Matthews (26:22):
It's true.
Yeah, it's absolutely true.
And it's really difficult tolearn how to break a bad habit
and instill a new one.
I just had my first golf lessonin 15 years and you know, it
was certainly humbling andawesome all at once.
And I'm talking to this fella,and he's a neat guy.
He's been all over the world,he's trained a lot of top

(26:45):
professional golfers.
He even told me a great storyabout teaching Baryshnikov golf.
Of all people and for those whoare maybe too young to recall,
baryshnikov was a famous, themost famous ballet dancer in the
world.
Male or female, he was the mostfamous.

(27:05):
He came from Russia and heeventually defected, at the
height of the Cold War, to theUnited States.
They kind of made a sort of amovie about it called White
Nights with Gregory Hines, andanyway, this guy was telling me
some stories and he was talkingabout what it takes to break a
habit and he shared a study thatwas done.
I'm not going to go into toomuch detail, but basically it

(27:26):
was 500 repetitions, 500positive, correct, accurate
repetitions to develop this newhabit or break a habit and build
a new one, 500.
And if you keep messing up, itcould be 1,000, it could be
1,500 repetitions, and so youknow, the lesson that I got from

(27:47):
that message today was aboutpatience with yourself and
patience with others around youwho are trying.
They're trying to do thingsdifferently, they're trying to
improve their habits, they'retrying to get better at work,
they're trying to get better intheir communication, they're
trying to get better knowingwhere on the screen to click
right All those things.
But that is a lot of repetitionsto get to the point of comfort,

(28:10):
and Stephen, if he was onspeaker right now, would easily
be able to tell you about therepetitions it takes to become
competent in a musicalinstrument, because he was a
jazz trombonist all throughcollege.
So you know this kind of havesome grace for yourself, like
allow yourself, you know,potentially hundreds of mistakes
while you're on the road.
Just don't quit, just don'tstop right, you keep doing it.

(28:33):
And you're on the road, justdon't quit, just don't stop
right, you keep doing it andyou're just going to wake up one
day with these skill sets thatmake you a badass Kind of cool
stuff.

Vanessa Grant (28:40):
So when I was at Dreaming in Color, one of the
sessions that I saw was a Pay myLimbs session.
She had like top Tinder secretsto finding the right match in
your career or something likethat.
It was a cute session but one ofthe, I think, takeaways that
she had early on she is a prettyprolific content creators,

(29:01):
particularly on LinkedIn, youknow, with her posts, and one of
her signatures really is thatshe does these kind of stick
figures and she has a stickfigure kind of for each persona.
That would be on a Salesforceconsulting project.
And she was describing abouthow, when she first started on
the stick figures, you know shedidn't really quite know what
she was doing.
She felt a little bituncomfortable, kind of drawing
them digitally or how she wasgoing to do it, and all she did

(29:24):
was decide that she was going todo a drawing every day and she
says now she can bust them outso much quicker and they're an
integral part of her contentcreation.
Now she has so much fun withthem.
All of her stuff is brandedwith this stuff and it really is
a testament to you know, justeven if you don't feel like

(29:44):
you're great at something today,like if you keep doing it for a
year, you know what You'll bebetter, for sure.

Josh Matthews (29:50):
Absolutely.
I mean, take some top 10 mostfamous YouTube people ever and
go watch the stuff that theywere producing in 2007, right,
or 2009.
Just watch that stuff, you knowit's like oh yeah, it's just a
repetition thing to get good atanything, even this podcast.
I mean, I'd already beenrunning Clubhouse for I don't

(30:12):
know six months a year.
I can't even remember when youjoined as co-host, vanessa.
I think we're doing a lotbetter than a couple of years
ago.
What do you think?

Vanessa Grant (30:22):
I don't know.
I'm still nervous every time,Josh, but I'm still working.
No, I'm just kidding.
No, I think you're—, but so isTravon right?

Josh Matthews (30:34):
You just said so is Travon Williams right?
Travon C Williams?
Yeah, that he still gets thatway.
I don't get nervous, I justsort of lament when I botch it,
usually technically right, yeah,yeah, I will you know.

Vanessa Grant (30:43):
And to the other thing, as far as changing bad
habits, I don't think I told you, josh, I'm a month vape-free
now.

Josh Matthews (30:51):
Oh, I didn't even know you were on the vape.
Yeah, you must have known.
Oh, yeah, I must have known.
Well, congratulations.

Vanessa Grant (31:01):
Not the vapes that maybe LeafLink.

Josh Matthews (31:03):
Not the LeafLink vapes.
Yeah, nicotine.

Vanessa Grant (31:07):
Let me just clarify.

Josh Matthews (31:10):
Well, congratulations.
You know when you can get it.
A month Now.
I am a nicotine fiend.
I chew Nicorette and smokecigars like it's going out of
style.
I've just accepted, that's whoI am.
I learned that from RobinWilliams's role in the Fisher
King.
He said you got to figure outare you a smoker or not a smoker
and then stick with it.
So I'm sticking with it.
I'm trying to do the thing thathopefully won't kill me as fast

(31:32):
as cigarettes, but it's a reallybig deal to make it 30 days,
because that first four or fivedays that's the physical
withdrawal and then when you getto 30, it's the social stuff.
That's the all the triggersthat make you want to reach for
it.
Your mom calls go grab a smoke.
You want to read a book, gograb a smoke.
You just had a difficult callwith whatever a team member or a

(31:53):
client go grab a smoke.
You just ate, got to get thatfood taste out of your mouth
right, like it's just how itworks, and so it's a really big
deal.
So congratulations to you.
I think that's awesome.
I don't know if this isclapping or a laugh track.
It's clapping.
Yay for Vanessa.

Vanessa Grant (32:11):
Sounded like hissing for a second.

Josh Matthews (32:12):
Yeah, yeah, I got to work on that file, I suppose
.

Vanessa Grant (32:17):
But I think, just again, more of a testament to
things do get easier the morethat you do them.
And I was even like looking atyou know, like even speaking
sessions, you know, because wejust did the submissions for
Dreamforce this year and I waslike, wow, I've been speaking
for like three years now, it isso much easier.
Yeah, here, and I was like, wow, I've been speaking for like
three years now, it is so mucheasier.

(32:37):
So, yeah, anyway, just justamplifying, I'm, I'm, I think
that's a really big takeawayJust keep doing something, it
will get easier.

Josh Matthews (32:44):
You're amplifying Matt Pieper's voice.
I love it.

Vanessa Grant (32:46):
Well done I need to be doing that more often.
Matt's got a Matt Matt.
Matt always has a good take.
So especially on LinkedIn, Idon't know if anybody is not
following Matt, but pleasefollow Matt and I'll throw out
there.
I actually discovered Mattthrough Jack McCurdy's Gearset
podcast, devops Diaries.

(33:08):
Matt, besides being superintelligent about where the tea
leaves are moving as far as theSalesforce ecosystem goes, gosh
Matt, you know so much aboutDevOps.
It's awesome.
Super, super fan.

Matt Pieper (33:27):
I appreciate those kind words I think I say usually
on my posts, right?
I don't know, I'm just a grumpyold dude who's been around the
block and just likes to sharewhat I've learned, right?
I don't know, I'm just a grumpyold dude who's been around the
block and just likes to sharewhat I've learned, right, so
others don't have to go throughthe same trials and tribulations
I have.
But I certainly appreciatethose words.

Josh Matthews (33:42):
How could you possibly identify yourself as a
grumpy old dude?
Honest to God, what are youhanging out with a bunch of 25
year olds?
You've never been grumpy withme, so there's that, and you
don't look old I.
I'm sure I've got you beat onage, buddy, but so if you're old
.

Matt Pieper (34:01):
What's that make me ?
I do work with a bunch of 25year olds.
I work in tech for the the pastdecade, so it's every year I I
learn new lingo and and new newslang, so that keeps me young at
heart there you go now.

Josh Matthews (34:14):
You went to university of louisville.
What year did you graduate?

Matt Pieper (34:17):
uh, so I was a non-traditional student, so when
I say what year I graduate, itactually is nowhere near my age,
but I, after I feel like intommy boy right, like lots of
people, go to school for eightyears, matt, they're called
doctors, but I I graduated myunder my both my undergrads in
2010 from from louisville, andthen I got my mba from ohio

(34:42):
state in 2013 good for you.

Josh Matthews (34:44):
Yeah, my brother went to ohio state.
The ohio state the ohio stateis for his master's, in fact.

Matt Pieper (34:49):
Yeah, that's awesome, yeah I I don't get the
the haters because it's also theuniversity of louisville, it's.
You know their actual title aswell, so I've never understood
why people dislike the ohiostate as much I think it's just
from from.

Josh Matthews (35:03):
you know d1 football, because you know, like
you know, when they do the bigannouncements or not, even, not
even ncaa, like nfl, when theydo the announcements and
everybody says their, says theiruniversity, and then, and then
they, you know, and then it'salways the Ohio state.
So you know, maybe it's that, Idon't know.

Matt Pieper (35:23):
Yeah, it doesn't hurt that we we tried to
trademark.
You know the word as well.

Josh Matthews (35:27):
Yeah, trademark T-H-E.
Good luck with that.

Matt Pieper (35:36):
Well, so someone trademarked a letter, so there
you go, that is true.

Josh Matthews (35:37):
That is true, strange days, and we're on that
platform right now.
Let's talk.
I'd like to switch gears forjust a little bit here.
Matt and we didn't talk toomuch or at length too much,
about what the market might belike for certain people in the
ecosystem right now, and duringthis conversation, which wasn't
very long and happened about1030 this now, and during this
conversation, which wasn't verylong and happened about 1030
this morning.
But during this discussion, weboth agreed yeah, it's not.

(35:59):
Today's market isn't the samemarket.
It was 12 months ago, certainlynot the same market.
It was two years ago for thosewho are looking to grow their
career in the ecosystem.
Now I'm going to put a littlecaveat in here before we talk
about this, and I will.
I will tell you that the toppeople, top 10% of people in any

(36:20):
ecosystem, they're always hardto find, they're always hard to
to to get their attention andthey're always difficult to get
them to move, because part ofwhy they're, you know, the best
of the best is companies thatthey work for know it.
They don't want to let them go.
So it and often because we knowfrom, because I know everybody

(36:42):
listened to the last podcastthat got that got released about
happiness.
We also know that these topperformers are also generally
happy people, and so how do youget someone to leave a company
where they're happy to go toanother company to be more happy
?
It's a little bit difficult, sowhat we're going to talk about
won't necessarily apply to thosefolks, but let's talk about
what you're seeing in themarketplace as far as challenges

(37:04):
that Salesforce professionalsmight currently be experiencing
in either acquiring a first jobor switching out of the current
role that they're in or gettinga promotion.
What are you seeing?

Matt Pieper (37:17):
Yeah, I think it's a very topical topic right now.
I think we've all seen thedigital transformation of the
past two decades, and thenespecially pandemic and post
pandemic, where companies werealmost printing cash to help
with these transformationprojects and that brought staff

(37:39):
right.

Josh Matthews (37:40):
There's a lot of free government money going on
too.
Yeah, cheap rates too.

Matt Pieper (37:46):
Yeah, you know, and you know what the average
tenure of a CIO is two to threeyears, right, because that's as
far as they think, and thenthose projects turn over, and
then sales right.
When they start to slip, yousee those internal systems roles
get cut, and so we've seen allof those headwinds, right, so I
think it's not as easy for thoseentry-level roles anymore,

(38:08):
right, where you can just comein and we have time to train up
and doing that right, because alot of companies, you know their
senior talent, even their midright, is focused on delivery.
We also saw, you know,unfortunately, some
consultancies get hit and aflood of talent onto the market,
and so, you know, a lot ofthose got picked up by customers
.
So I'm just not seeing thatground swell, as I, you know, be

(38:31):
used to.
But, that being said, I thinkif I were looking, you know, to
either enter the market right orbe that mid tier, it's really
focusing on non Salesforcespecific skills.
Okay.

Josh Matthews (38:46):
That's interesting.
We've talked to Vanessa hastalked a little bit about that.
I'm, before I say anything,what are the?
Let's just pick three thingsthat maybe people could do right
now to help bolster theirknowledge, their capability to
do a good job.
I'm saying this in a veryspecific way, matt and audience,
because sometimes people go outand they're just cert junkies.

(39:09):
They just want to go getanother certification.
They think the more the merrier.
It's not always the case.
It's really about acquiring theskill sets to provide the most
value for the company that'sgoing to employ you, right?
So what are, say, three things?
Whether it's search, tech,knowledge, whatever it is, what
are the top three that you wouldrecommend to people?

Matt Pieper (39:30):
Yeah.
So I'll preface these threeanswers with I'm a big believer
in the T-shaped skills paradigm,right, where you and I think
it's another one of those Amazonthings that I think they coined
and we all stole in the techworld but you know, you know a
little bit about a lot of things, right, and that's really the

(39:50):
flat level of the T.
That's really the flat level ofthe T.
And then you know a lot aboutone or two particular things and
that's really the vertical partof that T, and so we talk about
T-shaped skills a lot in myworld.
So when I look at the threethings that I would say to dive
into, it's related but unrelatedto Salesforce right, which is

(40:12):
general computer science anddata modeling paradigms, right,
going out there and stealingfrom you know computer
engineering programs, like howdo you, how do these core
systems work, right, outside ofthe drag and drop in the
database, like really, how doesthis work?

Josh Matthews (40:28):
Yeah.

Matt Pieper (40:29):
Because that sets you apart from a lot of folks,
right?
Because we know what to do in asystem, but we don't explain
how it works and what those deepskills are, and that sets you
apart, right?

Josh Matthews (40:42):
Well, it's like I turn my water on, you know, in
the kitchen, and the water justshows up.
I'm not quite sure how it getsthere.
I've got an idea.
It gets there.
I've got an idea.
I did read enough of Ulysses byJames Joyce and he spends about
20 pages describing how thewater got from one, from the
lake into you know, the guy'steapot, right?
So there's that, but likereally really getting it, and so

(41:05):
you're talking about being verygrounded in computer science is
what it sounds like.

Matt Pieper (41:10):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, you don't need to be you know,
going deep into neural networksand understanding the ins and
outs of particular nodes or evennotation theory, but knowing
things such as databaseperformance and latency network,
the seven layers of an OSIdiagram.

(41:30):
An OSI diagram Because,especially if you're looking in
a tech market right or a techrole in Salesforce in a tech
company, that's the languageyour engineers and the product
engineering team speak and youshow yourself as valuable, not
only on maybe the businesssystems or the GTM or the RevOps
side, but also sometransferable skills over there
and that makes you more of a youknow that utility or Swiss Army

(41:53):
knife.

Josh Matthews (41:54):
Yeah, that makes sense.
And and you know, do you knowthe?
You know, do you know what opensystems interconnection is is a
great question.
When you're screening people,someone says that they're a
bad-ass developer or they're agreat architect.
Ask them this and you'll figureit out real quick whether they
know even some of the corebasics.
It's's like what's a bass clefto a musician you know, you

(42:18):
gotta know, you gotta know thisstuff yeah, and it's you know.

Matt Pieper (42:22):
Part of that is I always stress on my teams right,
you know, you're not just salesforce, you're, you're part of a
enterprise engineering orbusiness systems team.
Right, we support multipleplatforms, we support the
business, and so the more youpick up those skills, the more
broad you are.
The second thing I would say is, especially now that flows are

(42:43):
flooding the market, learnengineering.
You don't have to know code,but know the SDLC or the
software development lifecycle.
Know why testing is important.
Know why we use for loops.
Know why we use breaks out oftesting is important.
Know why we use for loops.
Know why we use breaks out ofthose for loops.
Know why we use error handlingand please, please, please, use
error handling.
If you don't know anythingabout error handling, reach out

(43:03):
to me.
I will spend as much time aspossible to teach you.
It's that important Flow iscode.
We can say it's no code, all wewant, but under the hood it's
code, it's doing everything Iwould do as an Apex developer
and you need to learn thoseskills.
Go to Code Academy, write veryeasy intro level courses, very

(43:24):
easy to follow along.
Yeah.

Josh Matthews (43:26):
And I'm going to jump in and plug.
I'm just going to plug realquick that we actually have an
episode that you can listen to.
It's actually a video.
You can find it just type inJosh for us on YouTube and it's
how Salesforce flows can enhanceyour career and help your
business.
So and that's with ChristinaNava.
So you can definitely checkthat out.

(43:47):
If it's an area that you'reunfamiliar with and you kind of
want to just like, well, give me40 minutes or half an hour to
just like get, get this from apro and understand what I'm
getting myself into, I thinkit's a really great episode to
check out.

Matt Pieper (44:01):
Oh yeah, awesome, I'll, I know, I'll check it out.
The third skill I would say issales.
And this is weird coming fromfrom me, right, I'm a finance
and an engineer, but knowingsales, especially if you're
supporting a GTM team, is great,because then you know those
processes.
But, outside the obvious,you're always selling yourself,
right, whether that's yourpromotion, whether that is a

(44:24):
project that you want to do,whether that's maybe some tech
debt you want to burn down foryour boss, you're always selling
yourself.
And so knowing those particularskills and how to frame it and
how to tell that story moreimportantly, is invaluable,
especially if you're on the jobhunt.
Right, what sets you apart?
You know, the best sellersaren't passive, right, they're

(44:45):
not just submitting resumes.
They're submitting that resumeand following up, and following
up with action, right, andmaking it easy for their
customers to execute on it.

Josh Matthews (44:55):
Don't make them think right, Absolutely.
And we actually have DylanFerguson, who's go-to-market
expert.
He's with Fullcast.
He's going to be our guest intwo weeks from today.
Same bat time, same bat channel.
And you want to learn how tocrush your revenue goals and
learn all about GTM?
That will be the show to cometo.

Vanessa Grant (45:19):
So it's a really topical thing that you're
bringing up right now.
Yeah, I'd actually be curious.
Matt, I know that you have anMBA.
I have an MBA.
I, while I don't think an MBAis necessarily required for
success in the Salesforceecosystem, I have found that
process of getting my MBA to bereally valuable as a way to sell
myself to people that actuallyhave money to pay me to do

(45:39):
things.
Because I can speak a certainway.
It's almost like learning adifferent language than I grew
up with.

Josh Matthews (45:46):
Yeah, you've brought that up before, vanessa
about how getting the lexicondown right so that you're not
caught in alphabet soup or wordsoup where you have to look up
absolutely everything.
It's like when you're talkingthe same language as business
leaders and you're responsiblefor the system that helps them
to sell, then it makes sense tounderstand that language.

Vanessa Grant (46:10):
Yeah, matt, did you find that you benefited from
your MBA at all, or how did youlearn to kind of communicate
your value?

Matt Pieper (46:18):
Oh man.
So my spouse and I joke aboutthis all the time because we
both went to the same gradschool and got the same piece of
paper and we always laugh aboutit.
So the particular content Idon't think I particularly use
daily.
Right, content I don't think Iparticularly use daily.
I'm not putting together amarketing campaign or putting

(46:40):
together derivative schedules,because I was a super nerd and
learned corporate finance in myMBA.
But I will say, knowing whatpeople who use that language
think and act is a verytremendous value, right, whether
being able to talk to a cfo ortalk to chief marketing officer
and use their language.

(47:00):
Right, my mba was was very inperson and on purpose.
It was talking to people andfrom different walks of life
than me every day.
Right, I came out of themilitary, you know, went into
engineering for a little bit andthen went to grad school, so I
was still very, very wet behindthe ears and talking to as many
people as possible was withtremendous value and that's
something you get to do withouthaving an MBA.

(47:22):
Right, you can just go onLinkedIn, go to networking,
listen to podcasts and get it.
But yeah, the vernacular I useSynergy and Buy for Kate and
Leverage at least once a week,vanessa, so those were totally
worth all the money for that MBABuy for Kate.

Josh Matthews (47:40):
That's awesome, man.
Good questions, vanessa, reallygood ones.
So you shared, you know,understanding the GTM language.
Basically, you talked a littlebit about understanding how
information systems work SELC,you know.
Is there a certification thatyou're like?
Like Vanessa, is a big fan ofpeople going out and getting

(48:02):
their getting some sort of scrumcert right.
Is there something like thatthat's outside of the typical,
typical Salesforce ecosystemthat you would recommend people
investigate, rather than maybe60 grand in two or three years
on an MBA, something that theycan achieve, you know, this
summer, something they canachieve in the next six months?

Matt Pieper (48:20):
Yeah, you know, this summer something they can
achieve in the next six months?
Yeah, so you know, part of myside is you know, certs are
great if you know the knowledgeright, get the knowledge,
understand it and then get yourcert, because it makes it so
much easier than just crammingfor for a piece of paper,
especially if you don't evenknow if you'll like it, right.
So I say, go out there.

(48:41):
If your company has access toLinkedIn Learning, use it.
There's some pretty decentvideos out there, some pretty
bad ones.
Same thing with Udemy, but godown the rabbit hole on computer
science.
I think MIT and Harvard bothactually, and Stanford all have
computer science certificatesopen for free.
And you're looking at some ofthe top-notch engineering

(49:03):
schools right.
If you're looking at thebusiness terms, there's a lot of
brief MBA classes out therewhere you can learn that
material without diving in.
Sure Excel knowledge right, ifyou can teach anyone Excel.
You're golden Python, right, ifyou're in there.
But dabble a little bit, findout what interests you and then

(49:23):
go down deep.
But I say, use all those freeprograms.
There's enough out there nowthat you don't need to spend the
cash if you don't have to.

Josh Matthews (49:32):
Yeah, it's like why go to college when there's
YouTube?
right, Except that you justmight be signing up for the
wrong classes, yeah, or chat GPT, and I I'll tell you guys, I am
a massive fan.
I'll say I'm gonna say thisevery single week all summer I
am a massive fan of perplexity.
I don't google anything at allanymore, at all like none,

(49:53):
unless I'm maybe doing like anaudio.
Hey, you know, sir, like googlethis for me.
Like who's that actor from thatmovie?
Like that's it.
Otherwise, I'm using perplexity.
Anyone here who's got a speakermicrophone that they're on
right now?
Is anyone on this show otherthan me using this product?

Vanessa Grant (50:11):
Since you turned me on to it, I've actually been
using it, particularly when I'mlike helping my my younger son
on on his papers, cause I lovethat it cites where it got the
information from so that way we,when we're talking about like,
okay, I have to, we, we have towork on writing out something on
charles dickens, all right,well, was this accurate?

(50:34):
if chat gpt gave it to me, Idon't know, unless it gives me
all the sources but perplexityautomatically doesn't.
Then I can dig in further andgo okay, that's a good source,
and also teach him what, whatquality sources look like.

Josh Matthews (50:46):
Yeah, and it's great for just your personal
life.
I mean, whether it's tech orfiguring out resume or like
what's out there, you can getreal time data in a in a way
that's very digestible and canhelp you just move forward
without having to scroll downpast 10 sponsored links you know
, you don't know what you'regoing to get.
And at least now, when you sayyou know, I like to say, well,

(51:10):
you know.
It's not like I learned thisfrom the internet.
I learned this from perplexity,like a really smart system that
figured it out the mostimportant common stuff and kind
of got rid of all the garbage.

Vanessa Grant (51:21):
Well, I also use perplexity to ask it what you
know, tell me about VanessaGrant, who works in the
Salesforce ecosystem.
I was like I wonder what theinternet thinks of me, and
perplexity was very happy tooblige.

Josh Matthews (51:32):
Yeah, that's.
That's an interesting thing.
I don't think I've done donethat before.
And it had sources, which wasgreat, yeah, apparently and for
anyone who doesn't know whoVanessa Grant perplexity does
right.
Vanessa Grant is a prominentfigure in the Salesforce
ecosystem and she's known forher extensive experience and
contributions to the community.
And it gives you a ton ofinformation.

(51:54):
This is so cool.

Vanessa Grant (51:57):
Right, I'm typing in Matt right now.
We're going to see what theinternet has to say about that,
there you go If it doesn't havegrumpy old man in it.

Matt Pieper (52:04):
I'm going to just be disappointed.

Peter Ganza (52:06):
Yeah, I want in on this game, by the way.
Okay, man.

Vanessa Grant (52:10):
Oh, seasoned professional with extensive
experience in the Salesforceecosystem involved with
Salesforce for over 10 yearsgoes through your insights, a
little bit of your careerhistory, and this is the part I
wanted to see if it was going topick up on it.
Matt is also active in sharinghis thoughts and experiences
through various platforms,because what I have definitely

(52:31):
noticed since Matt kind of cameonto my radar is how much more
you post and also how much more,I would say, or maybe less
filtered your posts have beenover the course of the last year
where you're sharing a lot ofyour thoughts, but particularly
like a lot of thoughts that willcause engagement within folks
in the ecosystem and I do findthat so interesting and just I

(52:54):
learned so much by reading youryou know the comments on a lot
of your posts, just becausepeople will come in with
different viewpoints and it'sanother great way to educate
yourself on happenings in thisecosystem and where some of the
challenges are and differentperspectives on things.

Matt Pieper (53:09):
Yeah right, we talk about brand and selling
yourself and I don't know ifit's a good or bad thing, but
when we talk about my brand, itis transparent, right and
unfiltered.
I don't follow the typical.
You know LinkedIn, you knowsocial media influencer it's a
disgusting phrase to me when Isay it.

(53:29):
You know I don't have a gameplan, I don't have content, I
don't do any of that.
I just talk about what I amfeeling, that you know day or
that week, and sometimes theywork, sometimes they don't.

Josh Matthews (53:41):
Look man, it's authentic right.

Matt Pieper (53:43):
And people like authentic.

Josh Matthews (53:47):
You know, whenever I'm, if I'm writing a
blog or something, and it starts, I start to get rigid.
I do a ton of research, startputting this stuff in.
I'm like God, this sounds likeshit, like this doesn't even
sound like me.
It's like it's like you'regripping the bat too tight.
Right, just loosen up.
And and I get it, man, becauseI can say some things that can
be a little bit provocative.

(54:07):
I might, I might offend, youknow, millions of people.
They wouldn't be offendedbecause they'd never listened to
me, but I might offend millionsof people accidentally,
accidentally and and neverreally know.
And so, you know, you learn tokind of like rain it in rain, it
in rain, it in.
And then the older you get, themore you learn to loosen the
reins, loosen the reins and justkind of trust yourself.

(54:27):
But this is like learninganything right.
Years ago I was 14 years old.
I was 14 years old and I waslearning how to fly glider
planes.
Right, this is an airplane withno engine, get towed, they let
you go, and then you have to gofly it around and land the thing

(54:48):
.
And these wingspans are 70, 80feet.
It's massive, massive things.
And one tiny little adjustmentyou start swinging and then you
try to correct and now you'rebasically like a crazy yo-yo,
right?
You keep over-correcting,over-correcting, over-correcting
.
It's a great way to crash,right, just like driving.
You know, you stick your kid inthe car, you put him behind the
wheel, tell him to to go, theygun the gas, they slam on the

(55:09):
brakes, they turn really hard.
Everything, as we age and getmore competent with things, is
about subtlety and and relax,relaxing into it.
It's just like those 500 repsthat we talked about, right,
matt?
Those 500 reps of accuratethings that you need to do to

(55:29):
change or improve a bad habit.
So, whether it's pay doing herstick figures, vanessa, who's
probably done 500 speakingengagements by now, I would
assume, right or Matt, with whatyou're talking about, it's all
about getting the reps in,trusting the process and then
kind of letting go and trustingyourself to.
You can go on autopilot.

Matt Pieper (55:46):
I'm on autopilot, right now and and that's a valid
point too and I think you know,while we're talking about tools
like perplexity, right, orco-pilot, they're great tools,
right, just like a hammer is ahammer and a screwdriver is a
screwdriver.
They might be a very smarthammer or a very smart
screwdriver, but don't lean onthem too much while you're

(56:07):
learning new skills.
I've learned through all themistakes and errors that I've
done and then going back andasking myself why right?
And going through those fivewhys we saw this evolution with
Google right, then StackOverflow, stack Exchange,
trailer, community, ohana, whereit's easy to ask and search for

(56:28):
your answer and it's lesspushing on your own brain to
learn those things.
Now, if it's a formula thatyou're going to use a thousand
times and you don't care, justGoogle it and use it, right.
But if you're learning aconcept, struggle with with it,
just struggle for it and then,when you get stuck, use your
tool to a minimum and then getunstuck.
And continuing to get unstuck,because if you just ask a

(56:51):
computer for the answer everytime, you're gonna get a lot of
unoriginal thoughts and answersand that won't set you apart,
especially when posting guyslike oh man the rocket, like
like we can see the chatgenerating.
You know the AI and generatedposts that aren't filtered.
Right.
Use your voice and use it as atool, just like you would spell
check or anything else.

(57:11):
Pick up that skill, but use itas a tool, not to replace
yourself.

Josh Matthews (57:16):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Don't confuse McDonald's withfine dining, right, like it
takes a lot.
You got to spend more money onthe groceries.
You got to really, you know,spend more money at the
restaurant or spend more time inyour own kitchen and make
really good food.
You can get food.
It's really cheap.
It's kind of like going toGoogle for the answer, but to
really have it, be thoughtful,creative and maybe have a

(57:37):
dramatic, a much more dramaticimpact.
Whether it's a post dinner codedoesn't matter.
Spend a little bit more timeand, by the way, it takes a lot
more time than people think.
Tell me if this is the case foryou.
Vanessa, peter, I'm I'minterested in your perspectives
as well on this.
How many times have you hadsomeone come to you and say, hey

(57:59):
, I need some help with mycareer or with this skill set,
or what have you?
Whether it's I want to be abetter admin or I want to be a
better BA, or I want to get abetter job or want more money,
whatever it is, how many timeshas someone come to you with
this problem and then you'veasked them how long have they
worked on it and what have theydone?
And they've done almost nothingright.

(58:22):
How long has this problem been?
That's a great question, great.
How long have you had thisproblem and what have you done
so far to solve it?
And you're going to reallyunderstand someone very, very
quickly that way.
So you know sort of a key pointto all the listeners out there
like you got to think creatively, you got to push yourself, you
got to put yourself out there,but push yourself.
You got to put yourself outthere.
But tell me, vanessa, peter,matt, have you been exposed to

(58:42):
that sort of thing where peoplejust want help, they just want
to ask, but they, they, theywon't do for themselves what
they're asking of you to do forthem.

Vanessa Grant (58:49):
Oh yeah, constantly, I mean it's.
I would say I probably get oneof those at least every, I would
say, week or two, wherehonestly it's they're reaching
out to me cause I guess I justhappen to be right in front of
them on online, as opposed toactually like opening up another
tab and doing a couple ofGoogle searches or a perplexity

(59:12):
search or something, beforereaching out to me with
questions that they're wantingme to do the homework for them,
and I don't love that.
I mean I can, usually, at leastat this point at least, I've
got a couple of like super,super generic resources like hey
, have you seen Trailhead?
And sometimes that's enough.
They probably shouldn't bereaching out to me for that

(59:34):
answer, but yeah, yeah.

Josh Matthews (59:36):
Expand Exchange.
That's another good one.

Vanessa Grant (59:38):
It's Expand Exchange Also also, also also a
good one.
But yeah, it happens reallyfrequently.
It's it's mostly people just Idon't think thinking through the
, the conversation that they'reabout to have with me, just kind
of going like oh there'ssomebody, she probably knows
stuff.
I'll just ask, without reallythinking through you know the
mental load or the burden or the?
You know what I'm asking ofthem, that I should actually be

(01:00:02):
doing?

Josh Matthews (01:00:03):
myself.
Yeah, yeah, I get a bunch ofthose every single week and it's
like, yeah, I got a video forthat one.
I got two podcasts that'llanswer that other question.
Like, have you even looked like?
Have you tried to find thisinformation?
You know what about you, peter?

Peter Ganza (01:00:20):
I'd say at least one a week and it's, I can
pretty much say, almost alwaysGeared towards, you know, let's
say, an admin or an architectthat wants to get a job at a
partner right Because I workwith partners right, and it's
depressing that it's always thesame shit.
It's I have this many certs andblah, blah, blah, blah, blah,

(01:00:44):
and you know, send me, get me ajob.
And I literally just always saythe same thing.
I'm like it's not about certs,okay, great that you did that.
That says a lot.
But do something.
I mean be different.
Be you know, be genuine.
Go and build something.
I mean be different, be youknow, be genuine.
Go and build something.
Go and find a partner, find youknow an issue that they may

(01:01:06):
have and build something coolfor them.
I don't give a shit A blackjackgame for the CEO who happens to
like blackjack, whatever, butdo something, you know.
And yeah, that's my take.

Josh Matthews (01:01:16):
Yeah, and I will say for all those people who you
may have just been called outby everyone here, that is not to
say that, like for a lot ofpeople, they have done all the
work for themselves, they haveresearched and now they're stuck
.
Okay, now you come and askVanessa, ask Peter, ask Matt,
ask me, ask Steven, right, thenit's okay.

(01:01:39):
You know so there are peoplewho are not shy, they're willing
to lean on other people fortheir time, take their time to
get some sort of a benefit, evenwithout, you know, sharing any
kind of return value, and that'sokay sometimes, right?
So it's okay to, it's okay toask.
You just want to do a littlesearch on your own first, just a

(01:01:59):
little bit, because it showsthat you're committed and that
you are accountable.
Right, you're taking ownershipto a degree, as Vanessa.
I'm just going to point outwhat you said Trayvon said
earlier at Dreaming in Color,which is look up in the sky,
there's no superheroes comingdown.

Vanessa Grant (01:02:18):
Yeah, and I would also say, in addition to trying
to get as far as you can,before you reach out to somebody
, also make sure that the personyou're websites dedicated to
that.
I think there's also sometimesI'll get questions like, hey,

(01:02:44):
can you tell me how to be?
You know, you know, can youtell me about developer jobs?
And I don't know if they, likeyou know, took the wrong turn on
LinkedIn or something, but Idon't that.
That is definitely not my.
You know, I'm definitely notdeveloper all day Like.
There's lots of folks likeWarren Walters or Matt who who

(01:03:04):
would be better people to talkabout developer careers,
business analysis.
People can come to me anytimeand I'm and I'm thrilled to
answer those questions.
So I would say just make surethat you and just because
somebody asked me something thatmaybe isn't in my wheelhouse,
sometimes I might even try toanswer, which isn't necessarily

(01:03:27):
even great either.
So because you just want tomake sure that, even if you are
getting a response, that it'sgoing to be a thoughtful
response from somebody whoactually knows what they're
talking about rather than justsaying something because you
asked them.

Josh Matthews (01:03:34):
Well, that's why when people ask me, well, tell
me about Salesforce I just Igive them Matthew McConaughey's
number.
I'm like, this guy knowseverything about Salesforce,
Just call him.

Matt Pieper (01:03:43):
He is the sheriff.

Josh Matthews (01:03:44):
He is the sheriff .

Peter Ganza (01:03:46):
It takes.
It takes a lot.
I mean that's.
That's a bad example.
But the ones that I get, andprobably Vanessa, for the most
part they're trying right.
Yes, and that that takes, youknow, that says something.

Josh Matthews (01:03:59):
So I pretty much always respond and I know I
sounded kind of dismissive butno, I reach out because, Look,
if someone's under 25, yeah,I'll tell you whatever you want
to know.
If you're 40 and you're comingto me with that, then it's like
come on, Google Perplexity.

Peter Ganza (01:04:18):
And the other thing I just wanted to add was I
always talk about this all thetime from first-hand experience
is go to events, go online usergroups, go to dreaming events,
whatever.
You can network without anagenda, right, just like you
were talking about earlier, thegroup was talking about early on
.
You know, don't have an agenda,just meet people for the sake

(01:04:39):
of meeting people, go for adrink, bond and whatever you
have.
You have no idea.
Well, you probably do, butyears later and just random
stuff happens and I have morethan one example of, oh, I just
happened to meet this person andthen a couple of years later,
oh, he thought of me and hadthis job and boom, boom, boom.
Literally just the universecomes together in the weirdest

(01:05:00):
way.
So, network without an agenda.

Josh Matthews (01:05:03):
Yeah, and it's so cool.
The great thing about a networkis there's no two networks are
alike.
Vanessa, peter, matt, me,stephen we're all in the same
ecosystem, but my network issignificantly different than any
of yours.
Each of yours is significantlydifferent than any of yours.
Each of yours is significantlydifferent from one another's.

(01:05:23):
So when you have a network,just know it's your own.
You're responsible for it.
You're responsible for cullingit when it's not good, for
growing it, when it's too small,for elevating it, when the
people in your network can nolonger provide the kind of value
or you can no longer providevalue to them.

(01:05:45):
Right, it's your own.
It's your little baby.
Look after it, feed it, takecare of it.

Matt Pieper (01:05:52):
Yeah, I think on that note too right, I'm a huge
introvert, right, I fake it whenI need to, which is every day,
all day.
But if you're an introvert andyou're afraid to walk up to
somebody, that's okay.
Find them afterwards or gettheir name and shoot them a
message and start there.
And then my advice always ismake it about them.

(01:06:13):
People love to talk aboutthemselves, so instead of asking
for help, try to figure out away to ask a question where they
can talk about their experienceand share it.
That way, I think those arealways my top two go-tos.

Josh Matthews (01:06:25):
Ask questions and , matt, I hope you won't be
offended, but I do want toclarify introvert and shyness
aren't the same thing.
They often go hand in hand, butit's not the same thing, that's
true.
So you can be shy and anextrovert and you can be, you
know, outgoing and an introvert.
So that's possibility.
Just cause we talk about thiskind of stuff, I just want to
throw a little caveat in there.
But these are really greatpoints, guys.

(01:06:47):
This has been a fun show.
It's been kind of a relaxedshow, I think, don't you?

Vanessa Grant (01:06:51):
I've really, I've really enjoyed the show.
I would love to have Matt Mattcome back sometime.
Love, talking to you, Matt.

Matt Pieper (01:06:58):
Of course I.
I'm surrounded by greatness, soanytime.

Josh Matthews (01:07:01):
Matt, you are always welcome on the show.
Let's do a little wrap-up here.
We are approaching 7 o'clock.
A couple quick announcementsFor those of you who have made
it almost a full 90 minutes.
Boy, are you awesome and reallyspecial, and clearly you don't
have anything else going on.
So thank you for listening.
Could you do us a favor?
Could you give us a littlethumbs up or or like?

(01:07:23):
On whatever platform you're on,whether it's Spotify, Apple,
you name it, you knowiHeartRadio, whatever it is If
the platform you're on allowsfor a comment, we'd love to hear
what you have to say.
Where could we improve?
What could we do differently?
What aspects of the show arethe most impactful for you?
What kinds of guests would youlike to see in the future?
What kind of impact, if any,has the show made on you?

(01:07:46):
We'd love to see that.
It'll probably be replicated onthe website as well.
If you missed the first part,you can visit
salesforcecareershowcom.
It's our new website and it'spretty awesome because it's very
simple, but you can access allof our episodes there.
You can see who's going to be aguest and you can also see
who's been a guest in the pastNot all of them.
That's coming.
That page is coming, but it'dbe great and you can hear what

(01:08:09):
other people are saying.
More importantly, you canrequest to be a guest as well
and, by the way, everyone wholistens to the live show is
welcome to raise their hand andcome up on the stage, share your
thoughts or ask a question.
We love answering questions onthis show and I think the live
stuff it tends to get quieter inthe summer, Don't you think,
Vanessa?

Vanessa Grant (01:08:28):
Yeah, probably.

Josh Matthews (01:08:29):
You know, I mean it's also just X too.
Yeah, and yeah, it might be X,it might be.
It might be the summertime,it's.
Just look, if it's nice out andit's 5.30 where you are, I
don't know if you want to sit inyour house listening to a live
show.
Maybe you do.
If you do, then that's greatbecause we're great for that.
But in the wintertime it's alittle bit busier because it's

(01:08:51):
like, well, what else is goingon?
But we love running this show.
We want to continue to bringyou great guests, great content,
great insights on how to hire,get hired or soar higher in
Salesforce ecosystem.
Thank you to Matt Pieper,p-i-e-p-e-r.
You can find him on LinkedIn.
Follow him, listen to what hehas to say, comment on his stuff

(01:09:15):
, give him a thumbs up.
Same with my friend VanessaGrant, same with my friend Peter
Ganza, and I got everyone'sname right three in a row.
So I'm going to pat myself onthe back and maybe go enjoy a
nice cigar right now.
Matt, thank you for being heretoday and you are absolutely
welcome anytime.
Please, everybody be aware thatwe're going to be back two weeks
at 530 Eastern 230 Pacific.

(01:09:36):
We've got Dylan Ferguson, go-tomarket expert is going to be
our guest.
We have a number of greatguests coming up.
We've got Chris Ferguson, go-tomarket expert, is going to be
our guest.
We have a number of greatguests coming up.
We've got Chris Newdecker.
We've got a ton of folks.
Just go to the website, you'llsee what's going on.
Lots of great, great folks, andwe hope that all of them can be
as good as our special guest,matt Pieper, today.
So thank you, matt, and thankyou to all our listeners.

(01:09:57):
You guys are the reason why werun this show and I hope
everybody has an amazing nextcouple of weeks.
Vanessa, feel free to shout outany final messages and then
we'll go ahead and sign off.

Vanessa Grant (01:10:06):
I'll just say thank you, josh, for keeping us
moving along, and you don't getenough kudos on this, so thank
you, josh.

Josh Matthews (01:10:14):
You're very sweet , thank you.

Vanessa Grant (01:10:18):
And just throwing it out there, just because I
know folks are getting theirannouncements or their replies.
Congrats to everybody that waschosen as a Dreamforce speaker
this year and for folks that didnot get chosen, please, I
encourage you to speak at localTrailblazer community groups.
I know Ian Gotts is puttingtogether a website so folks can
put up their content.
There's lots of places that youcan still speak at.

(01:10:40):
You can talk to me if you haveany project management,
consultant, business analystcontent that you want to share
and come speak to my group.
But that's right now, at over100 members.
100, 500 members right now,Goodness.
But yeah, congrats to everybodyand if it was bad news, don't
let it discourage.
You Just want to end on that.

Josh Matthews (01:10:58):
Yeah, minimally.
You got the 35% discount toyour ticket right Just for
submitting, and I had submittedfor a session, vanessa had
submitted, she and I for aseparate session.
We didn't get either of those,but that's okay.
You know, sometimes there'svery specific things that
they're looking for duringDreamforce.
Some things are really wellsuited for it, other things just

(01:11:19):
aren't.
So don't worry about it.
There's a lot of competitionand getting to say that your
Dreamforce speaker is nice tohave, but I don't know if
anyone's ever got paid moremoney because of it.
Maybe they have, I don't know.
I don't think so, though.
Right, so it's not.
Don't worry, it's not the endof your dreams for Dreamforce
and hopefully we'll get to seeyou there.
I'll be there, vanessa will bethere.

(01:11:40):
Peter, are you going?

Peter Ganza (01:11:42):
I'm going to say maybe All right.

Josh Matthews (01:11:44):
Matt, are you?

Peter Ganza (01:11:45):
going.
I'm going to try my hardest,but it's not in the budget right
now.
Okay, Matt.

Josh Matthews (01:11:52):
Well, you should have gotten a rejection for a
session and it would be a littlebit less.
Matt, are you going to be atDreamforce this year?

Matt Pieper (01:11:59):
Yep, I'll be there, and I am also one of those who
didn't get selected, so justkeep on doing it, but I'll also
be Buckeye Dreaming later thismonth.

Josh Matthews (01:12:06):
Guys, what do you say If I can go out and get a
sponsor?
Maybe I'll talk to Ian.
What if we could get a partytogether for all the rejected
Dreamforce speakers?
Would that not be fun?

Matt Pieper (01:12:21):
Hilarious, that would be great.

Josh Matthews (01:12:22):
I think it would be really cool.
Let me talk to some of myfriends, some of the partners
that love to throw these sortsof things together.
Vanessa, if you can introduceme to Ian I don't know him, I
don't think.
I think we're connected, but Idon't know him that would be
awesome.
Let's see if we can getsomething going.
I think it'd be a lot of fun.

Vanessa Grant (01:12:38):
That'd be fun.
And Matt, come speak to mygroup.
We'd love to have you.

Josh Matthews (01:12:48):
Of course, awesome.
All right, guys.
Happy 4th of July to all ourlive listeners and everybody
who's listening to this on thepodcast.
We sure hope that you had agreat long weekend and we'll see
you in a couple of weeks.
Bye for now, everybody.