October 4, 2024 • 48 mins
In this episode, Jose Diaz, a PhD student in Greek New Testament studies at Andrews University and new faculty member at Sattler College, shares his journey from Mexico to the U.S., his passion for teaching biblical Greek, and how he uses second language acquisition methods to make Greek a living language for students. He also discusses the debate over Greek pronunciation, using props to teach the Lord’s Prayer, and his philosophy on blending academic rigor with personal devotion. Jose offers practical tips on how to start studying Greek and keep it as a lifelong habit, no matter where you are in your journey.
Learn more about studying Biblical and Religious Studies at Sattler.
Mentioned in this episode:
- APlus Lingua – Jose’s YouTube channel for learning Greek through songs
- Biblical Language Center – Resources and classes for learning Greek
- Biblingo – Communicative Greek language resources
- GlossaHouse – Publisher of communicative and traditional biblical language learning materials
- The Development of New Testament Greek by Chrys Caragounis
- Two Minutes a Day Biblical Language Series by Jonathan Kline
Timestamps:
0:00 – Introduction and Welcome
0:28 – Jose’s Background and Educational Journey
3:59 – Passion for Greek and Spiritual Connection
11:01 – Approaching Greek Pedagogy: Combining Heart and Mind
16:50 – The Lord’s Prayer in Greek: Demonstration and Explanation
24:10 – Transitioning to Modern Greek Pronunciation
32:00 – Jose’s Perspective on Learning Greek as a Living Language
39:20 – Advice for Starting and Sustaining Greek Study
47:00 – Sattler College Open House and Closing Remarks
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Zack Johnson (00:02):
It is September 12th, 2024, and I'm here with
the one and only Jose Diaz.
Jose, thank you for taking thetime to be part of the podcast
with me.
Thank you for the invitation,right?
So, jose, how long have youbeen in Boston?
Jose Diaz (00:18):
Well, we moved.
Our moving day was August 13th,so uh, about three weeks.
Zack Johnson (00:27):
Yeah, so I was.
I'm joking that we decided tofilm right in the sunlight to
give people a little bit of aview of the city that you just
moved to.
But I'm gonna read your bio.
That's on our website and okay,they're in the middle of that.
Feel free to correct orsubtract anything from it, and
then we can just jump right intowhat we're going to talk about.
But first, just for our viewers, who people are watching, what
(00:51):
are these things in front of us?
Jose Diaz (00:53):
Well, what we have here is some of the props that I
use for the Lord's Prayer.
We are learning the Lord'sPrayer and one of the best ways
is to engage with props, soperhaps at the end or sometime,
(01:14):
I could pray in Greek and showyou how I use these props.
Okay, that students are goingto eventually use them as they
learn the Lord's Prayer.
Some students are starting tolead the prayer already in Greek
.
Zack Johnson (01:29):
Right, and then I'm assuming that this is evil,
this dragon.
Jose Diaz (01:33):
Yes, the evil one.
Yes, he represents the evil one.
Yeah, I got it.
Zack Johnson (01:37):
That makes sense to me, all right.
Jose S Diaz is a PhD studentspecializing in Greek New
Testament, with a minor inHebrew Bible at Andrews
University.
He holds an MA in pastoralministry from Andrews University
, an MSED in education with aconcentration in English as a
second language and bilingualeducation from Northern Illinois
(01:57):
University, an MDiv equivalencyfrom Andrews University and a
BA in theology from MonteMorelos University in Mexico.
In 2023, he started a YouTubechannel called A Plus Lingua to
help students internalize theGreek scripture through songs.
Anything to add or subtract?
(02:18):
Was that accurate?
No, that's basically it.
All right.
So you've got a lot ofschooling.
And then mr diaz's interestsinclude infusing second language
acquisition methodology intogreek pedagogy, greek exegesis,
greek discourse analysis and newtestament backgrounds by
visiting archaeological sitesthat aid in the understanding of
(02:42):
the scriptures, greece, etc.
He's been teaching Greekcommunicatively for the past
three years, servingundergraduate and graduate
students.
He wants to help church memberslocally and globally to anchor
themselves in the scriptures andbecome lifelong readers of the
Greek scriptures.
All right, jose, welcome here.
Thank you so much.
(03:02):
All right, thank you for havingme, absolutely so.
The obvious question is when Iread your bio.
All right, jose, welcome here.
Thank you so much, all right,thank you for having me,
absolutely so.
The obvious question is when Iread your bio, the most repeated
word is Greek.
Yes, greek, greek, greek.
And you're wearing a t-shirtthat says Friends of Greek,
friends of Greek.
Jose Diaz (03:18):
And then it says yes, and Matthew 19, 36.
Parateo Panta Dunata, yes,parateo Panta Dinata.
Zack Johnson (03:25):
Dinata, yes, and Matthew 19, 36.
So I think it's safe to saythat you have some sort of
passion for Greek.
That's correct.
I'd love to just ask you totell me about your passion and
then share where on earth didyou develop it and why are you
so passionate about sharing itwith others?
Jose Diaz (03:56):
Yes, so my journey with Greek has been for several
years.
In 96, I took my first Greekclass in 1996 when I was doing
my undergrad.
First two semesters were not asI would like someone to study
Greek, but then my passionstarted in my third semester of
Greek.
But then I did not follow that.
(04:19):
I did not follow theology as myprofessional in my professional
life, meaning I did not findemployment in that area.
So I entered into theeducational field.
That's when I got a master's ineducation, but still my first
(04:41):
love with the scriptures wasstill there.
Even though I worked for morethan 18 years in education, I
wanted to do something with thebiblical languages.
So that's when I startedbuilding so I could go back and
get a PhD specifically in theGreek New Testament and get a
(05:09):
PhD specifically in the GreekNew Testament.
So it was a long journey.
We moved to Bering Springs,michigan, where Andrews
University is located.
We moved in 2013, but I did notget to start the program until
2021.
So about eight years ofbuilding and building, and
building.
So it took me all these years.
In the meantime I was doingthings with Greek.
(05:32):
I led a grow groups developingspeaking abilities in Greek.
So that was for all these years, until I started a PhD in 2021.
Zack Johnson (05:47):
Okay, yes, and I'm guessing that your Greek is
motivated beyond academics, thatthere's something spiritual
about it.
I'll share a story.
When you were here lastsemester interviewing, you,
pulled out a journal to show allof our students.
You might have it right infront of you.
And so it's.
(06:08):
It's something more thanacademic.
Tell me, tell me a little bitabout how it connects to the
scriptures through yourrelationship with God, your
understanding of truth.
All these, all these big, bigthings yes.
Jose Diaz (06:20):
So with the, I started experimenting with the
journals.
These journals were released in2017, the Greek Scripture
Journal, and I have my.
This was the first one that Ifinished completely the whole
(06:42):
Gospel of John.
Okay, completely the wholegospel of John.
So Dr Daniel Wallace, who is anexpert in Greek and textual
criticism from DallasTheological Seminary, developed
an idea, developed a study guide.
So I followed the study guideand so I connected this with the
(07:06):
Greek scripture journal, theidea or the question I always.
Well, let me go back a littlebit.
One of the main concerns I haveis that students, after studying
Greek for two years or twosemesters, one year, two years
(07:31):
or even more, there are studies.
I'm not sure if these areofficial studies, but I have
read some studies that claimthat only one to three percent
of students continue with theirGreek studies, and students are
(07:54):
always asking so, what do I donext?
What do I do next?
So it's always this question.
So I was in a quest, lookingfor a possible answer to that
question, like what do I do nextafter I finish a year or two
years or three years, whatever?
(08:14):
What do I do next?
So I came to these journals andI started, you know, journaling
on a daily basis.
I started journaling on a dailybasis so, instead of reading
(08:35):
the Bible or reading my Bible inEnglish, I started reading my
Bible in Greek.
So I have been doing thispractice, or have been
(09:06):
practicing 20, 30 minutes anhour whenever I have more time.
So I always tell students thatyou could start with a verse a
day, even half a verse if ittakes you a long time, but
(09:27):
slowly you will.
Students will startexperiencing that you know.
The more they read, the thefaster you will get.
You're building on yourknowledge.
So that's what I have beendoing.
I'm I'm currently finishing onewhich is from writing from Paul
(09:48):
.
This is Philippians and I am sohappy to say that I only need
to finish the last page and Iwill be done with the letter to
the Philippians.
I have been doing this for acouple of months already.
So this is.
I see this as a lifelongjourney.
Nobody's telling me like howfast I should go, how slow.
(10:13):
No, I just.
I have taken this as a lifelongjourney and my dream is that
students also are able to takethis path, to be able to fall in
love with the scriptures.
And if they are already in lovewith the scriptures.
(10:41):
Well, now they take Greek onesemester, my students who are in
the first semester.
They are reading the firstverse in Greek.
We are starting with the Gospelof John, which is how Daniel
Wallace developed this readingguide.
You start with the Gospel ofJohn, then you go to 1st, 2nd,
(11:03):
3rd John, then the book ofRevelation, and so on and so
forth, going from easy books tomore challenging books, more
challenging readings in Greek.
Zack Johnson (11:15):
So the Gospel of John, and 1st John in particular
, is one of the easier books ofthe Gospel in Greek.
And then what?
In your opinion, what's one ofthe most challenging?
I have two guesses.
My guesses are Hebrews orRevelation, but I don't.
Jose Diaz (11:30):
No, revelation is early on, so after the first
three letters of John,revelation is next.
So I have finished those.
I have gone through thosealready, but the most
challenging.
I have gone through thosealready, but the most
challenging, according to DanielWallace and the reading guide,
is Hebrews is last, and beforethat, 2 Peter, 2 Peter, yes,
(11:54):
okay, In terms of difficulty,Difficulty in terms of
vocabulary and syntax grammar,yeah, and syntax grammar yeah.
So that's how my studies took meto engage with the book of
Hebrews already.
So I finished journaling on thebook of Hebrews because I took
(12:18):
a class I actually have takentwo classes on the
interpretation of the book ofHebrews and my dissertation will
go in that direction in thebook of Hebrews.
Zack Johnson (12:32):
And then one of the things I always talk about
at Sattler is that we're theonly college in the US that
makes all of our undergrads take, we allow them the opportunity
to take biblical Greek andbiblical Hebrew.
It's the requirement is onlytwo semesters of Greek, two
semesters of Hebrew.
But this is computer scientists, biology students, business
(12:54):
students, history students andbiblical and religious studies
students.
The one that would make senseis the biblical and religious
studies students.
So why, if you have a studentin the room at the Sattler who
is maybe pursuing a Bachelor ofScience business, biology,
computer science how do you makeit compelling for them to
(13:15):
invest themselves in Greek whenyou would think that they're
just?
I have to do this.
Have you thought?
Jose Diaz (13:21):
about that at all.
Yes, I have thought a lot aboutbefore coming to Sadler.
I presented when I visitedSadler for the first time, back
in April, I remember.
So I have been thinking.
I have been doing a lot ofthinking because, perhaps for
(13:44):
the first time, we are combiningtwo things, and I think about
this all the time.
We are combining academics andwe are also combining the
spiritual part.
So how do you go about this?
And I pray every day that theLord grants me the wisdom to be
(14:10):
able to combine these two things, especially for those who will
not spend their lives dealingwith the scriptures, who are the
BRS students, but the otherstudents who came to a Christian
school.
My goal is to anchor them inthe Scriptures.
(14:31):
So I talked to them, for I tooksome time in class today to
talk to them about this, becausethey apparently it's not too
clear.
Zack Johnson (14:44):
You you know that that's the final goal and when
people, when I talk aboutsattler to some of my
acquaintances I came from a, mymy undergrad and my master's
degree are secular, from secularinstitutions and they say, oh
you're, you're a bible school orthat's the first thing that
comes to mind and and so it'svery important to say no, that
(15:06):
actually, at the beginning thecommunicative approaches is a
little bit foreign to somepeople.
Do you mind doing ademonstration?
(15:30):
I think you're ready to do theLord's Prayer, is that right?
Is that a good idea?
Yeah, can I all stand up hereand get a better angle?
And feel free to stand up aswell if that's something that
you want to do here.
All right, I'm here withProfessor Diaz and we're going
to do a demonstration of theLord's Prayer here, all right.
Jose Diaz (15:56):
So I will pray in Greek.
This is based on Matthew,chapter 6, verses 9 to 13.
Oentis uranis ayastito to onomasu el ceto I vasiliasu
(16:33):
genitito toteli masu osen uranoke epigis Ton arton, imon ton
epiusion dos imin simeron Ke afe, simin ta ofilimata imon oske
(16:54):
imis afikamen tis ofiletes, imonKe mi isenenkis imas ispiras
mon ala rise imas apotu oniru.
So the last part simply says inthe name of Jesus, because
(17:22):
that's how Jesus taught us topray, but it's not part of the
verses.
But I just add that to concludethe prayer.
Zack Johnson (17:34):
Right?
And why do you avoid for yearsthe kingdom and the power and
the glory forever?
Jose Diaz (17:44):
Yes, the reason I.
I mean when we study textualcriticism or text analysis as
others call it, but when we dealwith the most ancient
manuscripts, we have theopportunity to work with papyrus
(18:06):
and the most ancient text thatwe have the opportunity to work
with papyrus and the mostancient texts that we have
available and it is not in therethe last part for dying is the
kingdom, and so on and so forth.
Nevertheless, I mean we canfind that in the book of
Revelation, because when we goto the book of Revelation there
(18:27):
is a lot of praise, a lot ofadoration.
So those of us who engage withthe biblical text in the
original languages all the time,we always wonder if we should
include those that were addedlater in later manuscripts.
(18:52):
So I prefer not to includethings that were added later in
later manuscripts from the 10th12th century.
With textual critical toolsthat we have available, we
always try to go back to themost ancient that we have
(19:13):
available.
Zack Johnson (19:14):
Yeah, I understand .
I'm familiar with sort of theByzantine versus other text,
other text, but I know enoughGreek that I know that that last
line was.
I think it's a very powerfulline as well.
Jose Diaz (19:32):
Yes, it is.
I mean it is, as I said, we canfind it definitely in the Book
of Revelation, because there's alot of praise there.
Zack Johnson (19:40):
Right, and so the idea I know that I've talked to
Dr Schumann about this a lot,who is sort of teaching
communicatively in Hebrew In theclassroom what we just saw, for
those of you listening, is alot of props, visual cues, total
(20:01):
physical response.
And so tell me a little bitabout why you've chosen this
response, this approach toteaching, over, I guess, the
other approaches, the grammar,sort of a grammar-based approach
to Greek and to learninglanguages.
I know you're passionate aboutit.
Jose Diaz (20:22):
It is interesting because I will be presenting
this year in San Diego,California, at ETS.
What does ETS?
Zack Johnson (20:32):
stand for.
Jose Diaz (20:32):
ETS Evangelical Theological Society.
And then what's the other?
Sbl?
Sbl stands for the Society ofBiblical Literature, so every
year, scholars and aspiringscholars, students, phd students
gather in different parts.
I know that in 2025, it will behere in Boston, so I look
(20:56):
forward to that.
You're getting ready to nothave to travel.
For the first time, I will nothave to travel far.
Who's hosting it in Boston?
I am not sure.
We don't have those details yet.
These details come out as itapproaches.
Now we know that it will be inSan Diego and things are getting
prepared.
(21:16):
Maybe Sadler should host it.
Oh, that would be great.
Yes, but keep in mind that it'slike thousands of people that
come.
Oh, never mind, it is way, way.
So this is probably the biggest, the biggest, how you call this
convention center in here.
That's probably where it willtake place.
(21:38):
Got it so?
Because usually we are talkingby the thousands, people from
all over the country and fromall over the world as well.
But I will be presenting on thatspecific topic, so I will talk
about my journey and what I havelearned coming from the grammar
(21:59):
translation, moving to the whatI call a balanced approach
50-50, and now more into 90-10.
So the practice here is 90-10,meaning 90% of the class takes
place in Greek.
That's the goal.
(22:19):
That's the goal, sometimes moreor less 85, 80, 90.
The goal is always 90.
And then 10% in Greek.
So general instructions are insorry, 10% in English.
So the general instructions are,general directions are given in
(22:39):
English, and then we enter intothe Greek, so everything is
done in Greek, and then I alwaysleave some time at the end for
debriefing.
So if there was something thatI said that it was not too clear
, even though I used the prompts, even though I use movements as
part of TPR.
(23:00):
So my approach is use severallike pictures is use several
like pictures, prompts, also TPRand others such as echo reading
, choral reading and so on andso forth in the classroom
questions and answers.
(23:20):
So I use a text base, so we useactually the Greek New
Testament, I use a book withpictures, the Greek New
Testament, I use a book withpictures and so yeah, so that's
basically my journey in anutshell coming from a grammar
translation approach, now middleground, half of grammar and
(23:42):
translation, half of theenjoyment of using things, props
and things like that, and thennow coming into a more immersive
environment, getting close to afull immersion, which would be
100%, but we are 90-10.
That's what we are doing rightnow.
Zack Johnson (24:03):
Yeah, and then I know, just because I feel like
you're so passionate about,about Greek, and that's what you
teach here.
We also made a.
In the first day of class, Imade the announcement that we're
switching to the modernpronunciation per that.
Then that was strictly tied toyour, your arrival at Sattler
(24:25):
and, and so I'd love to justhear your thoughts on what are
the different options forpronouncing Koine Greek that
people have available, and whyhave you landed on modern?
And yeah, maybe I'll ask somefollow-up questions.
Jose Diaz (24:43):
Yes.
So the same thing, like myjourney with coming from a
grammar translation approach,grammar translation method, gtm
as it is called, or knowngrammar translation method the
same thing.
My journey has been alwayslooking, always researching,
(25:07):
reading and learning.
So I started with the Erasmianpronunciation.
The Erasmian pronunciation iswidely used in seminars and
Bible colleges, but what I foundis that people who use that
pronunciation do not use a lotof Greek in class, meaning they
(25:31):
just talk about Greek but theydon't speak the language.
So that was the main differencethat I started going from the
Erasmus pronunciation, goinginto middle ground.
I thought it was middle ground,but it's more towards modern
(25:53):
Greek, which we call theReconstructed Pronunciation
promoted by Randall Booth, thefounder I'm not sure if he's
still the president, but thefounder of the Biblical Language
Center in Israel.
So he promotes what he calls areconstructed pronunciation.
(26:16):
Some people call it BLCpronunciation it's the same
thing.
Others call it first centurypronunciation.
So he believes he reconstructedthe pronunciation.
So he believes he reconstructedthe pronunciation.
So he started teaching thatpronunciation, which I used to
call middle ground.
So my journey took me to that.
(26:37):
I started taking classes withBLC Biblical Language Center,
with Biblingo as well.
Conversation of Kini or KoineInstitute, so to be able to
speak more Greek, not just talkabout Greek with charts and
things like that.
(26:57):
You know paradigms, butactually use those paradigms,
have them here and be able touse them in the classroom.
So then, once I was in thatmiddle ground, I kept reading
and one of the books that helpedme was a Chris Karagounis book.
(27:20):
Dr Karagounis, his book iscalled the Development of New
Testament Greek.
About 850 pages book.
I read it all and after that Ikept you know.
I kept asking why, why?
So I ended up joining the 14million speakers of Greek
(27:41):
because every week they read thescriptures in this
pronunciation.
So there are several advantageswhy I decided to move into
modern Greek, for instance.
One of them is that I have 14million potential people I could
(28:03):
ask to help me with mypronunciation and I have found
that very comforting because Ihave friends from Greece.
I actually have friends fromGreece that when I get stuck I
ask them.
The second thing is that wehave something that we call
Google Translate.
Some people don't like anddon't feel comfortable with
(28:24):
Google Translate, but I tellstudents, when you get stuck,
you don't know how to pronounceit, just type it and Google
Translate will tell you it willgive you the modern.
Yes, it gives you the modernGreek pronunciation.
Zack Johnson (28:34):
And then I'm assuming have you been to Greece
yet?
Yes, and I'm assuming, when youwalk around Greece, have you
been able to communicatenatively with people, give or
take with your language?
Jose Diaz (28:48):
Yes.
So I was reading once and Ineed to track down where I read
this.
It has been a while ago.
In my search, as I said, in myquest to try to answer all these
questions, I came across anarticle that says something very
interesting.
This article said that if youknow ancient Greek and biblical
(29:13):
Greek or Kini Greek or KoineGreek, falls into this umbrella,
the big umbrella of ancientGreek.
So when I read that article, itsaid that if you know ancient
Greek, you would be able tounderstand up to 40% of modern
Greek.
So that got my attention.
(29:36):
I shared it with my advancedGreek professor and she said
that perhaps perhaps 30 percent.
So but I it's still very, it'sstill comforting to be able to
know that all this ancient Greekthat I know, I would be able to
use it.
So when I traveled to Greece in20 I believe it was 2022, if I
(30:00):
recall correctly, yeah, 2022 Itraveled to Greece and I was
able to engage.
I was preparing ahead of timephrases that could help me
survive.
So, for instance, I would sayand that will give you an idea
what I was talking about when isthe restroom?
(30:21):
It's very important to survivein Greece.
The restroom food, yeah, so Ilearned phrases so I could
survive in Greece.
The restroom food yeah, so Ilearned phrases so I could
survive in Greece.
But what I noticed is that whenpeople were speaking, I was
able to track not everything,but I was able to get just a
(30:43):
gist of what they were saying,just because I had decided to
move into the Greek, modernGreek pronunciation, or, you
know, as the Greeks pronounce it.
Zack Johnson (30:54):
Yeah, yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
And then I just I guess I won'task a ton of more questions
about Greek, because my guess ispeople who are listening might
have already.
They're like how long can youtalk about Greek?
Oh, I could talk forever.
And then people probably havenoticed Jose, you're from Mexico
, yes, and so your firstlanguage is Spanish.
(31:17):
That's correct, an advantage inthe language and the
pronunciation.
Or are you sort of agnostic asto how your own background has
shaped, how you teach, how youcan teach greek and also sort of
(31:37):
give you the tool to, like,make your way around greek?
Is greek closer to spanishenglish?
I?
Jose Diaz (31:43):
I know that it's kind of there's not a true right
answer to this, but yes, Well,yes, so, as you said, my first
language was, or is, spanish,and I say was because I have
been living here in the US more.
Yeah, I mean, most of my lifehas been here.
I arrived when I was 15 yearsold, so if you make the math you
(32:08):
will probably guess, but I havebeen living here for many, many
.
I mean, I became US citizen in2011.
But, yes, so Spanish Englishwas my second language.
I went to high school inCalifornia.
(32:29):
North Hollywood High School ismy high school.
So, yeah, if you're watching.
Zack Johnson (32:37):
if you are from North Hollywood, You'll have to
share it.
Once it comes out, you'll haveto share it.
Jose Diaz (32:40):
Yes.
So North Hollywood High School,go Huskies, if you know what
that means.
You know Huskies was our, youknow the mascot.
So yes, I learned English as asecond language.
What is interesting is Ilearned English as a second
language but later I was trainedIn my master's in education.
(33:04):
I was trained in secondlanguage acquisition how to
teach students who are comingfrom other countries taking you
know English as a secondlanguage.
So I was able, I worked, thatwas my career, was done in
second language acquisition,bilingual education,
(33:26):
transitional bilingual, esl,dual language education all
these areas that deal withlanguage.
So definitely it shaped how Isee language teaching and this
is not.
This is also a language.
(33:47):
Some people have claimed that weare studying a dead language.
Let me make a correction if ourviewers have heard this.
When I was reading ChrisCaragouni's book, dr Caragouni
(34:07):
claims that Greek never died andI thought about it for a long
time and it makes sense, becausewe don't have daughters of
Greek.
Like Latin, latin died and wehave daughters.
Spanish is a daughter of Latin,italian, portuguese, daughters
of Latin, but not Greek, becauseGreek never died.
(34:29):
What happened with Greek?
Was it evolved?
Zack Johnson (34:34):
That's probably going to be the title of this
episode Greek Never Died.
Oh, yes, I think it's actually.
I love that, yes, Greek.
Jose Diaz (34:41):
Never Died, and that's why I have decided to
treat Greek as a living language, even though we are studying as
part of the ancient part of thelanguage.
But Greek never died.
So I'm able to connect.
(35:02):
Currently learning classicalGreek or Attic Greek is also
known, because now, if we takethis idea, then we recognize
that we are on the fifth phaseof Greek, which is modern Greek,
but Greek never died.
(35:22):
So that's why I treat Greek asa language and so, yeah, no,
that makes sense.
Zack Johnson (35:32):
And then I think I'll bring up that last week I
did a little bit of an interviewwith an alumni from Sattler's
first class and I asked this wasa BRS or a biblical and
religious student?
This was a BRS or a biblicaland religious student.
I asked if he still uses thelanguages and was encouraged
(35:58):
that every single day he openshis Greek and his Hebrew and his
personal devotions, and I wasso happy to hear that.
Villa, the founder of Sattler,we talked to this idea about the
compounding interest, ofinvesting yourself in tools that
will bring you closer to thescriptures, and so a lot of
people understand this idea ofcompounding interest with money.
(36:21):
But the two things required tomake compounding interest work
for you Einstein called it theeighth wonder of the world is
basically time.
The earlier you start, thebetter, and then just patience,
and the two are very, veryrelated Start earlier and then
(36:45):
keep going Maybe disciplinewould be another way of phrasing
that and so and so, when youthink about just how you think
about young people and how itcan make their life more alive,
how would you recommend thatpeople start with greek?
Just, some people won't haveopportunities to come to the
(37:09):
college and think about that.
But what's a good place tostart, if you're interested in
kind of dipping your feet intolearning Greek, and then not
only starting, but what are somehabits that you've developed
that you can recommend to keepthe language alive?
(37:29):
Because Greek never died andhopefully it never will?
Jose Diaz (37:33):
Yes, yes.
So a great question.
So first, I agree and time isvery important.
I was just sharing withstudents today and during class
that you start with five minutes.
If you put in five minutes, Iam assuming that students and I
(37:59):
said I'm going to assume thatyou already spend some time with
the scriptures every day as aChristian.
As a Christian, if you are not,then well, this is your chance
to spend five minutes.
Start with five minutes.
Start, you know, with somethingreal.
I think everybody can spend fiveminutes with the scriptures,
(38:20):
and then it will turn out to be10 minutes, then 20, then 30
minutes, then an hour will notbe enough.
But you know, since we haveother responsibilities,
sometimes I spend 30 minutes, 40minutes, and now it depends, it
depends on the time.
On the weekends I get to spendmore time with the scriptures,
(38:42):
you know, an hour or so, butevery day, nobody should be
checking how much time you arespending with the scriptures.
This is your personaldevotional, your devotional time
with the Lord, your time withGod in his scriptures.
So that's what I suggest Startsmall, start, you know, with
(39:03):
five minutes.
Now get up five minutes earlierand pray and read five minutes
and then double it and you willneed more.
You will see that five minutesis not enough.
Zack Johnson (39:15):
Then you will start asking or looking for more
opportunities to spend moretime with God's Word when I
started my first Greekexperience, I remember being so
excited about the freshness ofbeing able to encounter the
scriptures in a new way, and Ithink that's really important.
(39:37):
I hear that with a lot ofpeople that I interact with when
I'm part of a church group whoasks how's your Bible reading
going?
And repeatedly people will saysomething like it's a little
stale.
I'm on autopilot and I thinkthe biblical languages actually
(39:57):
allow freshness, some sort offreshness, and it doesn't have
to be an academic intensity.
It can be, for certain, if youget far.
But I've experienced that Likehey, what if today I'm just
going to look up the passage andread one verse in Greek and see
if it's anything.
That's it, and it's exciting,isn't it?
(40:18):
It's like you're exploringanother dimension of the
Scriptures.
Some people call it like colorversus black and white TV.
There are different analog TV.
Yes, different analogies.
Jose Diaz (40:28):
Yes, so start with your favorite Bible, your
favorite verse.
You know John 3, 16.
I started like that first and Ihave a T-shirt with John 3, 16.
That was one of my.
That was the first, and I wasas I was reading word by word, I
was enjoying it, and there isactually a song that the Lord
(40:52):
inspired me to compose.
So it is on our YouTube channel, A Plus Lingua, our YouTube
channel.
It is there.
It will be one of the songs wewill learn in the class.
That's spelled out.
Zack Johnson (41:05):
A-P-L-U-S space L-I-N-G-U-A.
Jose Diaz (41:10):
Yes, l, this lingua is Latin.
You know, when I was taking myLatin course, I developed the
channel so I said, okay, I'mjust going to throw in there a
little bit of Latin, but linguais Latin.
That means tongue or language.
So A plus language, you know,in a sense, a plus lingua.
(41:34):
L-i-n-g-u-a, that's right,that's great.
So, yes, definitely.
And I mean those of if you arewatching this video and you are
thinking, should I go to Sandleror not?
Come to Sandler, yes, come toSandler, but I understand that
(41:59):
not everybody will be able tocome to Sandler Then there are
other options.
So I already mentioned BLC.
What's that stand for?
It stands for Biblical LanguageCenter.
If you Google Biblical LanguageCenter, you will see it.
They have resources, you canstudy on your own and they also
have classes online via Zoom.
(42:21):
And also Biblingo.
Biblingo is another greatcompany that has started, you
know, with the communicativeapproach as well, and they have
class online.
So you study on your own or youtake a class with someone and
follow the curriculum they have.
So those are probably the best.
And also, of course, I cannotforget Glossa House that I have
(42:44):
worked and I'm working torelease a book sometime in the
future with Glossa House.
So Dr Tapes and I are workingtogether, creating and working
on this book, slowly testing it,testing it with students and so
on and so forth.
Until we think it's ready, itwill be released with Glossa
House.
They have great materials.
(43:05):
They have for both thecommunicative approach and for
the traditional grammartranslation approach.
So, yeah, so those are outthere, available.
You have to invest.
So same thing.
You have to invest, as you say,as you mentioned before time
resources.
You invest in your walk withthe Lord.
(43:27):
So this would be a greatinvestment.
Engaging with, with thebiblical languages, in my case,
greek, but I have also engagedwith Hebrew.
My Hebrew is not as strong asmy Greek because, you know, for
obvious reasons, I have beenmajoring in Greek.
You have to choose one or theother.
Zack Johnson (43:45):
Yes, well, and then, before we end, is anything
else you wanted to to talkabout?
Mention that that you that Ididn't ask.
I know we focused a lot in ongreek, but there is there any
other sort of piece of advice,that or resource that you like
to share with people in aninterview?
Jose Diaz (44:01):
well, I um.
Going back to the, to thescriptures, um, I already said,
if you are already studyingGreek, well, your next step will
be with the Greek scripturejournal.
But going back to what youmentioned about the question,
(44:22):
how is your reading of thescriptures?
So I would like to invite allviewers.
It doesn't matter if you arenot studying Greek.
We always have an appointmentwith our Lord, with our Savior,
with our God, always.
So let's start.
(44:45):
As I said, let's start again.
There's always this opportunityto start again.
Start with five minutes.
I know there is a professor, agraduate from Harvard University
, who developed a series ofbooks.
They are called Two Minutes aDay.
So two minutes of Greek everyday.
(45:07):
Two minutes of Hebrew every day, two minutes of Latin no,
aramaic, not Latin.
I don't think he has releasedthe Latin, so he thinks about
two minutes.
When I read the one page thatis supposed to be two minutes,
it took me more than two minutes.
So I would say start with fiveminutes and you will find out
(45:29):
that it's not enough.
Then you will want more, youwant to spend more time.
So pray, read and pray, readand pray.
So that's how I would like toend up this conversation, to be
able to start again with thescriptures.
(45:49):
No matter where you are in yourjourney, you can start again
and spend time with the Lord inprayer and in the reading of the
scriptures.
Zack Johnson (46:00):
Yeah, amen, and I just want to say that I know
it's hard to think about this,but there's not a right age.
Even if you're old, it'spossible to start, and I think
from a college perspectivethat's actually our vision is to
actually create a demand wheremore and more young people are
(46:20):
excited about the scriptures.
I think that it will paydividends to have more young
people who are able to rightlyhandle the word of God and are
spending that time daily andthat at the end of their life
that just compounds into atremendous relationship with God
(46:40):
.
And I wanted to take a littlebit of time, if you'll let me so
at the end.
If you are interested in Sattler, there's an open house October
18th through the 19th 2024.
That'll be right here in ourcampus and I think part of that
(47:01):
would be able to.
You'd probably get to see yourclassroom, live a little bit and
meet some of the students, andso please, if you haven't been
made aware of that, come to theopen house.
Thank you so much, jose, forbeing here with me, and then I'm
going to take the opportunityto film out the window really
quick, just to sort of attractstudents.
(47:26):
So, if you didn't know, this isour first time filming, but
Sattler sits on this reallyinteresting view of the Charles
River right here, and did youknow this?
So on this side of the river isBoston and then on that side of
the river is Cambridge.
So right back there you can seeMIT and Harvard, and then come
(47:46):
over to this side and thenthat's the state house right
there.
Jose, do you know if that'sreal gold or fake gold?
I don't know.
Jose Diaz (47:55):
Maybe real All right?
Zack Johnson (47:57):
Well, if you don't know, come to Open House to
find out.
That's good.
It is September 12th, 2024, and I'm here with
the one and only Jose Diaz.
Jose, thank you for taking thetime to be part of the podcast
with me.
Thank you for the invitation,right?
So, jose, how long have youbeen in Boston?
Jose Diaz (00:18):
Well, we moved.
Our moving day was August 13th,so uh, about three weeks.
Zack Johnson (00:27):
Yeah, so I was.
I'm joking that we decided tofilm right in the sunlight to
give people a little bit of aview of the city that you just
moved to.
But I'm gonna read your bio.
That's on our website and okay,they're in the middle of that.
Feel free to correct orsubtract anything from it, and
then we can just jump right intowhat we're going to talk about.
But first, just for our viewers, who people are watching, what
(00:51):
are these things in front of us?
Jose Diaz (00:53):
Well, what we have here is some of the props that I
use for the Lord's Prayer.
We are learning the Lord'sPrayer and one of the best ways
is to engage with props, soperhaps at the end or sometime,
(01:14):
I could pray in Greek and showyou how I use these props.
Okay, that students are goingto eventually use them as they
learn the Lord's Prayer.
Some students are starting tolead the prayer already in Greek
.
Zack Johnson (01:29):
Right, and then I'm assuming that this is evil,
this dragon.
Jose Diaz (01:33):
Yes, the evil one.
Yes, he represents the evil one.
Yeah, I got it.
Zack Johnson (01:37):
That makes sense to me, all right.
Jose S Diaz is a PhD studentspecializing in Greek New
Testament, with a minor inHebrew Bible at Andrews
University.
He holds an MA in pastoralministry from Andrews University
, an MSED in education with aconcentration in English as a
second language and bilingualeducation from Northern Illinois
(01:57):
University, an MDiv equivalencyfrom Andrews University and a
BA in theology from MonteMorelos University in Mexico.
In 2023, he started a YouTubechannel called A Plus Lingua to
help students internalize theGreek scripture through songs.
Anything to add or subtract?
(02:18):
Was that accurate?
No, that's basically it.
All right.
So you've got a lot ofschooling.
And then mr diaz's interestsinclude infusing second language
acquisition methodology intogreek pedagogy, greek exegesis,
greek discourse analysis and newtestament backgrounds by
visiting archaeological sitesthat aid in the understanding of
(02:42):
the scriptures, greece, etc.
He's been teaching Greekcommunicatively for the past
three years, servingundergraduate and graduate
students.
He wants to help church memberslocally and globally to anchor
themselves in the scriptures andbecome lifelong readers of the
Greek scriptures.
All right, jose, welcome here.
Thank you so much.
(03:02):
All right, thank you for havingme, absolutely so.
The obvious question is when Iread your bio.
All right, jose, welcome here.
Thank you so much, all right,thank you for having me,
absolutely so.
The obvious question is when Iread your bio, the most repeated
word is Greek.
Yes, greek, greek, greek.
And you're wearing a t-shirtthat says Friends of Greek,
friends of Greek.
Jose Diaz (03:18):
And then it says yes, and Matthew 19, 36.
Parateo Panta Dunata, yes,parateo Panta Dinata.
Zack Johnson (03:25):
Dinata, yes, and Matthew 19, 36.
So I think it's safe to saythat you have some sort of
passion for Greek.
That's correct.
I'd love to just ask you totell me about your passion and
then share where on earth didyou develop it and why are you
so passionate about sharing itwith others?
Jose Diaz (03:56):
Yes, so my journey with Greek has been for several
years.
In 96, I took my first Greekclass in 1996 when I was doing
my undergrad.
First two semesters were not asI would like someone to study
Greek, but then my passionstarted in my third semester of
Greek.
But then I did not follow that.
(04:19):
I did not follow theology as myprofessional in my professional
life, meaning I did not findemployment in that area.
So I entered into theeducational field.
That's when I got a master's ineducation, but still my first
(04:41):
love with the scriptures wasstill there.
Even though I worked for morethan 18 years in education, I
wanted to do something with thebiblical languages.
So that's when I startedbuilding so I could go back and
get a PhD specifically in theGreek New Testament and get a
(05:09):
PhD specifically in the GreekNew Testament.
So it was a long journey.
We moved to Bering Springs,michigan, where Andrews
University is located.
We moved in 2013, but I did notget to start the program until
2021.
So about eight years ofbuilding and building, and
building.
So it took me all these years.
In the meantime I was doingthings with Greek.
(05:32):
I led a grow groups developingspeaking abilities in Greek.
So that was for all these years, until I started a PhD in 2021.
Zack Johnson (05:47):
Okay, yes, and I'm guessing that your Greek is
motivated beyond academics, thatthere's something spiritual
about it.
I'll share a story.
When you were here lastsemester interviewing, you,
pulled out a journal to show allof our students.
You might have it right infront of you.
And so it's.
(06:08):
It's something more thanacademic.
Tell me, tell me a little bitabout how it connects to the
scriptures through yourrelationship with God, your
understanding of truth.
All these, all these big, bigthings yes.
Jose Diaz (06:20):
So with the, I started experimenting with the
journals.
These journals were released in2017, the Greek Scripture
Journal, and I have my.
This was the first one that Ifinished completely the whole
(06:42):
Gospel of John.
Okay, completely the wholegospel of John.
So Dr Daniel Wallace, who is anexpert in Greek and textual
criticism from DallasTheological Seminary, developed
an idea, developed a study guide.
So I followed the study guideand so I connected this with the
(07:06):
Greek scripture journal, theidea or the question I always.
Well, let me go back a littlebit.
One of the main concerns I haveis that students, after studying
Greek for two years or twosemesters, one year, two years
(07:31):
or even more, there are studies.
I'm not sure if these areofficial studies, but I have
read some studies that claimthat only one to three percent
of students continue with theirGreek studies, and students are
(07:54):
always asking so, what do I donext?
What do I do next?
So it's always this question.
So I was in a quest, lookingfor a possible answer to that
question, like what do I do nextafter I finish a year or two
years or three years, whatever?
(08:14):
What do I do next?
So I came to these journals andI started, you know, journaling
on a daily basis.
I started journaling on a dailybasis so, instead of reading
(08:35):
the Bible or reading my Bible inEnglish, I started reading my
Bible in Greek.
So I have been doing thispractice, or have been
(09:06):
practicing 20, 30 minutes anhour whenever I have more time.
So I always tell students thatyou could start with a verse a
day, even half a verse if ittakes you a long time, but
(09:27):
slowly you will.
Students will startexperiencing that you know.
The more they read, the thefaster you will get.
You're building on yourknowledge.
So that's what I have beendoing.
I'm I'm currently finishing onewhich is from writing from Paul
(09:48):
.
This is Philippians and I am sohappy to say that I only need
to finish the last page and Iwill be done with the letter to
the Philippians.
I have been doing this for acouple of months already.
So this is.
I see this as a lifelongjourney.
Nobody's telling me like howfast I should go, how slow.
(10:13):
No, I just.
I have taken this as a lifelongjourney and my dream is that
students also are able to takethis path, to be able to fall in
love with the scriptures.
And if they are already in lovewith the scriptures.
(10:41):
Well, now they take Greek onesemester, my students who are in
the first semester.
They are reading the firstverse in Greek.
We are starting with the Gospelof John, which is how Daniel
Wallace developed this readingguide.
You start with the Gospel ofJohn, then you go to 1st, 2nd,
(11:03):
3rd John, then the book ofRevelation, and so on and so
forth, going from easy books tomore challenging books, more
challenging readings in Greek.
Zack Johnson (11:15):
So the Gospel of John, and 1st John in particular
, is one of the easier books ofthe Gospel in Greek.
And then what?
In your opinion, what's one ofthe most challenging?
I have two guesses.
My guesses are Hebrews orRevelation, but I don't.
Jose Diaz (11:30):
No, revelation is early on, so after the first
three letters of John,revelation is next.
So I have finished those.
I have gone through thosealready, but the most
challenging.
I have gone through thosealready, but the most
challenging, according to DanielWallace and the reading guide,
is Hebrews is last, and beforethat, 2 Peter, 2 Peter, yes,
(11:54):
okay, In terms of difficulty,Difficulty in terms of
vocabulary and syntax grammar,yeah, and syntax grammar yeah.
So that's how my studies took meto engage with the book of
Hebrews already.
So I finished journaling on thebook of Hebrews because I took
(12:18):
a class I actually have takentwo classes on the
interpretation of the book ofHebrews and my dissertation will
go in that direction in thebook of Hebrews.
Zack Johnson (12:32):
And then one of the things I always talk about
at Sattler is that we're theonly college in the US that
makes all of our undergrads take, we allow them the opportunity
to take biblical Greek andbiblical Hebrew.
It's the requirement is onlytwo semesters of Greek, two
semesters of Hebrew.
But this is computer scientists, biology students, business
(12:54):
students, history students andbiblical and religious studies
students.
The one that would make senseis the biblical and religious
studies students.
So why, if you have a studentin the room at the Sattler who
is maybe pursuing a Bachelor ofScience business, biology,
computer science how do you makeit compelling for them to
(13:15):
invest themselves in Greek whenyou would think that they're
just?
I have to do this.
Have you thought?
Jose Diaz (13:21):
about that at all.
Yes, I have thought a lot aboutbefore coming to Sadler.
I presented when I visitedSadler for the first time, back
in April, I remember.
So I have been thinking.
I have been doing a lot ofthinking because, perhaps for
(13:44):
the first time, we are combiningtwo things, and I think about
this all the time.
We are combining academics andwe are also combining the
spiritual part.
So how do you go about this?
And I pray every day that theLord grants me the wisdom to be
(14:10):
able to combine these two things, especially for those who will
not spend their lives dealingwith the scriptures, who are the
BRS students, but the otherstudents who came to a Christian
school.
My goal is to anchor them inthe Scriptures.
(14:31):
So I talked to them, for I tooksome time in class today to
talk to them about this, becausethey apparently it's not too
clear.
Zack Johnson (14:44):
You you know that that's the final goal and when
people, when I talk aboutsattler to some of my
acquaintances I came from a, mymy undergrad and my master's
degree are secular, from secularinstitutions and they say, oh
you're, you're a bible school orthat's the first thing that
comes to mind and and so it'svery important to say no, that
(15:06):
actually, at the beginning thecommunicative approaches is a
little bit foreign to somepeople.
Do you mind doing ademonstration?
(15:30):
I think you're ready to do theLord's Prayer, is that right?
Is that a good idea?
Yeah, can I all stand up hereand get a better angle?
And feel free to stand up aswell if that's something that
you want to do here.
All right, I'm here withProfessor Diaz and we're going
to do a demonstration of theLord's Prayer here, all right.
Jose Diaz (15:56):
So I will pray in Greek.
This is based on Matthew,chapter 6, verses 9 to 13.
Oentis uranis ayastito to onomasu el ceto I vasiliasu
(16:33):
genitito toteli masu osen uranoke epigis Ton arton, imon ton
epiusion dos imin simeron Ke afe, simin ta ofilimata imon oske
(16:54):
imis afikamen tis ofiletes, imonKe mi isenenkis imas ispiras
mon ala rise imas apotu oniru.
So the last part simply says inthe name of Jesus, because
(17:22):
that's how Jesus taught us topray, but it's not part of the
verses.
But I just add that to concludethe prayer.
Zack Johnson (17:34):
Right?
And why do you avoid for yearsthe kingdom and the power and
the glory forever?
Jose Diaz (17:44):
Yes, the reason I.
I mean when we study textualcriticism or text analysis as
others call it, but when we dealwith the most ancient
manuscripts, we have theopportunity to work with papyrus
(18:06):
and the most ancient text thatwe have the opportunity to work
with papyrus and the mostancient texts that we have
available and it is not in therethe last part for dying is the
kingdom, and so on and so forth.
Nevertheless, I mean we canfind that in the book of
Revelation, because when we goto the book of Revelation there
(18:27):
is a lot of praise, a lot ofadoration.
So those of us who engage withthe biblical text in the
original languages all the time,we always wonder if we should
include those that were addedlater in later manuscripts.
(18:52):
So I prefer not to includethings that were added later in
later manuscripts from the 10th12th century.
With textual critical toolsthat we have available, we
always try to go back to themost ancient that we have
(19:13):
available.
Zack Johnson (19:14):
Yeah, I understand .
I'm familiar with sort of theByzantine versus other text,
other text, but I know enoughGreek that I know that that last
line was.
I think it's a very powerfulline as well.
Jose Diaz (19:32):
Yes, it is.
I mean it is, as I said, we canfind it definitely in the Book
of Revelation, because there's alot of praise there.
Zack Johnson (19:40):
Right, and so the idea I know that I've talked to
Dr Schumann about this a lot,who is sort of teaching
communicatively in Hebrew In theclassroom what we just saw, for
those of you listening, is alot of props, visual cues, total
(20:01):
physical response.
And so tell me a little bitabout why you've chosen this
response, this approach toteaching, over, I guess, the
other approaches, the grammar,sort of a grammar-based approach
to Greek and to learninglanguages.
I know you're passionate aboutit.
Jose Diaz (20:22):
It is interesting because I will be presenting
this year in San Diego,California, at ETS.
What does ETS?
Zack Johnson (20:32):
stand for.
Jose Diaz (20:32):
ETS Evangelical Theological Society.
And then what's the other?
Sbl?
Sbl stands for the Society ofBiblical Literature, so every
year, scholars and aspiringscholars, students, phd students
gather in different parts.
I know that in 2025, it will behere in Boston, so I look
(20:56):
forward to that.
You're getting ready to nothave to travel.
For the first time, I will nothave to travel far.
Who's hosting it in Boston?
I am not sure.
We don't have those details yet.
These details come out as itapproaches.
Now we know that it will be inSan Diego and things are getting
prepared.
(21:16):
Maybe Sadler should host it.
Oh, that would be great.
Yes, but keep in mind that it'slike thousands of people that
come.
Oh, never mind, it is way, way.
So this is probably the biggest, the biggest, how you call this
convention center in here.
That's probably where it willtake place.
(21:38):
Got it so?
Because usually we are talkingby the thousands, people from
all over the country and fromall over the world as well.
But I will be presenting on thatspecific topic, so I will talk
about my journey and what I havelearned coming from the grammar
(21:59):
translation, moving to the whatI call a balanced approach
50-50, and now more into 90-10.
So the practice here is 90-10,meaning 90% of the class takes
place in Greek.
That's the goal.
(22:19):
That's the goal, sometimes moreor less 85, 80, 90.
The goal is always 90.
And then 10% in Greek.
So general instructions are insorry, 10% in English.
So the general instructions are,general directions are given in
(22:39):
English, and then we enter intothe Greek, so everything is
done in Greek, and then I alwaysleave some time at the end for
debriefing.
So if there was something thatI said that it was not too clear
, even though I used the prompts, even though I use movements as
part of TPR.
(23:00):
So my approach is use severallike pictures is use several
like pictures, prompts, also TPRand others such as echo reading
, choral reading and so on andso forth in the classroom
questions and answers.
(23:20):
So I use a text base, so we useactually the Greek New
Testament, I use a book withpictures, the Greek New
Testament, I use a book withpictures and so yeah, so that's
basically my journey in anutshell coming from a grammar
translation approach, now middleground, half of grammar and
(23:42):
translation, half of theenjoyment of using things, props
and things like that, and thennow coming into a more immersive
environment, getting close to afull immersion, which would be
100%, but we are 90-10.
That's what we are doing rightnow.
Zack Johnson (24:03):
Yeah, and then I know, just because I feel like
you're so passionate about,about Greek, and that's what you
teach here.
We also made a.
In the first day of class, Imade the announcement that we're
switching to the modernpronunciation per that.
Then that was strictly tied toyour, your arrival at Sattler
(24:25):
and, and so I'd love to justhear your thoughts on what are
the different options forpronouncing Koine Greek that
people have available, and whyhave you landed on modern?
And yeah, maybe I'll ask somefollow-up questions.
Jose Diaz (24:43):
Yes.
So the same thing, like myjourney with coming from a
grammar translation approach,grammar translation method, gtm
as it is called, or knowngrammar translation method the
same thing.
My journey has been alwayslooking, always researching,
(25:07):
reading and learning.
So I started with the Erasmianpronunciation.
The Erasmian pronunciation iswidely used in seminars and
Bible colleges, but what I foundis that people who use that
pronunciation do not use a lotof Greek in class, meaning they
(25:31):
just talk about Greek but theydon't speak the language.
So that was the main differencethat I started going from the
Erasmus pronunciation, goinginto middle ground.
I thought it was middle ground,but it's more towards modern
(25:53):
Greek, which we call theReconstructed Pronunciation
promoted by Randall Booth, thefounder I'm not sure if he's
still the president, but thefounder of the Biblical Language
Center in Israel.
So he promotes what he calls areconstructed pronunciation.
(26:16):
Some people call it BLCpronunciation it's the same
thing.
Others call it first centurypronunciation.
So he believes he reconstructedthe pronunciation.
So he believes he reconstructedthe pronunciation.
So he started teaching thatpronunciation, which I used to
call middle ground.
So my journey took me to that.
(26:37):
I started taking classes withBLC Biblical Language Center,
with Biblingo as well.
Conversation of Kini or KoineInstitute, so to be able to
speak more Greek, not just talkabout Greek with charts and
things like that.
(26:57):
You know paradigms, butactually use those paradigms,
have them here and be able touse them in the classroom.
So then, once I was in thatmiddle ground, I kept reading
and one of the books that helpedme was a Chris Karagounis book.
(27:20):
Dr Karagounis, his book iscalled the Development of New
Testament Greek.
About 850 pages book.
I read it all and after that Ikept you know.
I kept asking why, why?
So I ended up joining the 14million speakers of Greek
(27:41):
because every week they read thescriptures in this
pronunciation.
So there are several advantageswhy I decided to move into
modern Greek, for instance.
One of them is that I have 14million potential people I could
(28:03):
ask to help me with mypronunciation and I have found
that very comforting because Ihave friends from Greece.
I actually have friends fromGreece that when I get stuck I
ask them.
The second thing is that wehave something that we call
Google Translate.
Some people don't like anddon't feel comfortable with
(28:24):
Google Translate, but I tellstudents, when you get stuck,
you don't know how to pronounceit, just type it and Google
Translate will tell you it willgive you the modern.
Yes, it gives you the modernGreek pronunciation.
Zack Johnson (28:34):
And then I'm assuming have you been to Greece
yet?
Yes, and I'm assuming, when youwalk around Greece, have you
been able to communicatenatively with people, give or
take with your language?
Jose Diaz (28:48):
Yes.
So I was reading once and Ineed to track down where I read
this.
It has been a while ago.
In my search, as I said, in myquest to try to answer all these
questions, I came across anarticle that says something very
interesting.
This article said that if youknow ancient Greek and biblical
(29:13):
Greek or Kini Greek or KoineGreek, falls into this umbrella,
the big umbrella of ancientGreek.
So when I read that article, itsaid that if you know ancient
Greek, you would be able tounderstand up to 40% of modern
Greek.
So that got my attention.
(29:36):
I shared it with my advancedGreek professor and she said
that perhaps perhaps 30 percent.
So but I it's still very, it'sstill comforting to be able to
know that all this ancient Greekthat I know, I would be able to
use it.
So when I traveled to Greece in20 I believe it was 2022, if I
(30:00):
recall correctly, yeah, 2022 Itraveled to Greece and I was
able to engage.
I was preparing ahead of timephrases that could help me
survive.
So, for instance, I would sayand that will give you an idea
what I was talking about when isthe restroom?
(30:21):
It's very important to survivein Greece.
The restroom food, yeah, so Ilearned phrases so I could
survive in Greece.
The restroom food yeah, so Ilearned phrases so I could
survive in Greece.
But what I noticed is that whenpeople were speaking, I was
able to track not everything,but I was able to get just a
(30:43):
gist of what they were saying,just because I had decided to
move into the Greek, modernGreek pronunciation, or, you
know, as the Greeks pronounce it.
Zack Johnson (30:54):
Yeah, yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
And then I just I guess I won'task a ton of more questions
about Greek, because my guess ispeople who are listening might
have already.
They're like how long can youtalk about Greek?
Oh, I could talk forever.
And then people probably havenoticed Jose, you're from Mexico
, yes, and so your firstlanguage is Spanish.
(31:17):
That's correct, an advantage inthe language and the
pronunciation.
Or are you sort of agnostic asto how your own background has
shaped, how you teach, how youcan teach greek and also sort of
(31:37):
give you the tool to, like,make your way around greek?
Is greek closer to spanishenglish?
I?
Jose Diaz (31:43):
I know that it's kind of there's not a true right
answer to this, but yes, Well,yes, so, as you said, my first
language was, or is, spanish,and I say was because I have
been living here in the US more.
Yeah, I mean, most of my lifehas been here.
I arrived when I was 15 yearsold, so if you make the math you
(32:08):
will probably guess, but I havebeen living here for many, many
.
I mean, I became US citizen in2011.
But, yes, so Spanish Englishwas my second language.
I went to high school inCalifornia.
(32:29):
North Hollywood High School ismy high school.
So, yeah, if you're watching.
Zack Johnson (32:37):
if you are from North Hollywood, You'll have to
share it.
Once it comes out, you'll haveto share it.
Jose Diaz (32:40):
Yes.
So North Hollywood High School,go Huskies, if you know what
that means.
You know Huskies was our, youknow the mascot.
So yes, I learned English as asecond language.
What is interesting is Ilearned English as a second
language but later I was trainedIn my master's in education.
(33:04):
I was trained in secondlanguage acquisition how to
teach students who are comingfrom other countries taking you
know English as a secondlanguage.
So I was able, I worked, thatwas my career, was done in
second language acquisition,bilingual education,
(33:26):
transitional bilingual, esl,dual language education all
these areas that deal withlanguage.
So definitely it shaped how Isee language teaching and this
is not.
This is also a language.
(33:47):
Some people have claimed that weare studying a dead language.
Let me make a correction if ourviewers have heard this.
When I was reading ChrisCaragouni's book, dr Caragouni
(34:07):
claims that Greek never died andI thought about it for a long
time and it makes sense, becausewe don't have daughters of
Greek.
Like Latin, latin died and wehave daughters.
Spanish is a daughter of Latin,italian, portuguese, daughters
of Latin, but not Greek, becauseGreek never died.
(34:29):
What happened with Greek?
Was it evolved?
Zack Johnson (34:34):
That's probably going to be the title of this
episode Greek Never Died.
Oh, yes, I think it's actually.
I love that, yes, Greek.
Jose Diaz (34:41):
Never Died, and that's why I have decided to
treat Greek as a living language, even though we are studying as
part of the ancient part of thelanguage.
But Greek never died.
So I'm able to connect.
(35:02):
Currently learning classicalGreek or Attic Greek is also
known, because now, if we takethis idea, then we recognize
that we are on the fifth phaseof Greek, which is modern Greek,
but Greek never died.
(35:22):
So that's why I treat Greek asa language and so, yeah, no,
that makes sense.
Zack Johnson (35:32):
And then I think I'll bring up that last week I
did a little bit of an interviewwith an alumni from Sattler's
first class and I asked this wasa BRS or a biblical and
religious student?
This was a BRS or a biblicaland religious student.
I asked if he still uses thelanguages and was encouraged
(35:58):
that every single day he openshis Greek and his Hebrew and his
personal devotions, and I wasso happy to hear that.
Villa, the founder of Sattler,we talked to this idea about the
compounding interest, ofinvesting yourself in tools that
will bring you closer to thescriptures, and so a lot of
people understand this idea ofcompounding interest with money.
(36:21):
But the two things required tomake compounding interest work
for you Einstein called it theeighth wonder of the world is
basically time.
The earlier you start, thebetter, and then just patience,
and the two are very, veryrelated Start earlier and then
(36:45):
keep going Maybe disciplinewould be another way of phrasing
that and so and so, when youthink about just how you think
about young people and how itcan make their life more alive,
how would you recommend thatpeople start with greek?
Just, some people won't haveopportunities to come to the
(37:09):
college and think about that.
But what's a good place tostart, if you're interested in
kind of dipping your feet intolearning Greek, and then not
only starting, but what are somehabits that you've developed
that you can recommend to keepthe language alive?
(37:29):
Because Greek never died andhopefully it never will?
Jose Diaz (37:33):
Yes, yes.
So a great question.
So first, I agree and time isvery important.
I was just sharing withstudents today and during class
that you start with five minutes.
If you put in five minutes, Iam assuming that students and I
(37:59):
said I'm going to assume thatyou already spend some time with
the scriptures every day as aChristian.
As a Christian, if you are not,then well, this is your chance
to spend five minutes.
Start with five minutes.
Start, you know, with somethingreal.
I think everybody can spend fiveminutes with the scriptures,
(38:20):
and then it will turn out to be10 minutes, then 20, then 30
minutes, then an hour will notbe enough.
But you know, since we haveother responsibilities,
sometimes I spend 30 minutes, 40minutes, and now it depends, it
depends on the time.
On the weekends I get to spendmore time with the scriptures,
(38:42):
you know, an hour or so, butevery day, nobody should be
checking how much time you arespending with the scriptures.
This is your personaldevotional, your devotional time
with the Lord, your time withGod in his scriptures.
So that's what I suggest Startsmall, start, you know, with
(39:03):
five minutes.
Now get up five minutes earlierand pray and read five minutes
and then double it and you willneed more.
You will see that five minutesis not enough.
Zack Johnson (39:15):
Then you will start asking or looking for more
opportunities to spend moretime with God's Word when I
started my first Greekexperience, I remember being so
excited about the freshness ofbeing able to encounter the
scriptures in a new way, and Ithink that's really important.
(39:37):
I hear that with a lot ofpeople that I interact with when
I'm part of a church group whoasks how's your Bible reading
going?
And repeatedly people will saysomething like it's a little
stale.
I'm on autopilot and I thinkthe biblical languages actually
(39:57):
allow freshness, some sort offreshness, and it doesn't have
to be an academic intensity.
It can be, for certain, if youget far.
But I've experienced that Likehey, what if today I'm just
going to look up the passage andread one verse in Greek and see
if it's anything.
That's it, and it's exciting,isn't it?
(40:18):
It's like you're exploringanother dimension of the
Scriptures.
Some people call it like colorversus black and white TV.
There are different analog TV.
Yes, different analogies.
Jose Diaz (40:28):
Yes, so start with your favorite Bible, your
favorite verse.
You know John 3, 16.
I started like that first and Ihave a T-shirt with John 3, 16.
That was one of my.
That was the first, and I wasas I was reading word by word, I
was enjoying it, and there isactually a song that the Lord
(40:52):
inspired me to compose.
So it is on our YouTube channel, A Plus Lingua, our YouTube
channel.
It is there.
It will be one of the songs wewill learn in the class.
That's spelled out.
Zack Johnson (41:05):
A-P-L-U-S space L-I-N-G-U-A.
Jose Diaz (41:10):
Yes, l, this lingua is Latin.
You know, when I was taking myLatin course, I developed the
channel so I said, okay, I'mjust going to throw in there a
little bit of Latin, but linguais Latin.
That means tongue or language.
So A plus language, you know,in a sense, a plus lingua.
(41:34):
L-i-n-g-u-a, that's right,that's great.
So, yes, definitely.
And I mean those of if you arewatching this video and you are
thinking, should I go to Sandleror not?
Come to Sandler, yes, come toSandler, but I understand that
(41:59):
not everybody will be able tocome to Sandler Then there are
other options.
So I already mentioned BLC.
What's that stand for?
It stands for Biblical LanguageCenter.
If you Google Biblical LanguageCenter, you will see it.
They have resources, you canstudy on your own and they also
have classes online via Zoom.
(42:21):
And also Biblingo.
Biblingo is another greatcompany that has started, you
know, with the communicativeapproach as well, and they have
class online.
So you study on your own or youtake a class with someone and
follow the curriculum they have.
So those are probably the best.
And also, of course, I cannotforget Glossa House that I have
(42:44):
worked and I'm working torelease a book sometime in the
future with Glossa House.
So Dr Tapes and I are workingtogether, creating and working
on this book, slowly testing it,testing it with students and so
on and so forth.
Until we think it's ready, itwill be released with Glossa
House.
They have great materials.
(43:05):
They have for both thecommunicative approach and for
the traditional grammartranslation approach.
So, yeah, so those are outthere, available.
You have to invest.
So same thing.
You have to invest, as you say,as you mentioned before time
resources.
You invest in your walk withthe Lord.
(43:27):
So this would be a greatinvestment.
Engaging with, with thebiblical languages, in my case,
greek, but I have also engagedwith Hebrew.
My Hebrew is not as strong asmy Greek because, you know, for
obvious reasons, I have beenmajoring in Greek.
You have to choose one or theother.
Zack Johnson (43:45):
Yes, well, and then, before we end, is anything
else you wanted to to talkabout?
Mention that that you that Ididn't ask.
I know we focused a lot in ongreek, but there is there any
other sort of piece of advice,that or resource that you like
to share with people in aninterview?
Jose Diaz (44:01):
well, I um.
Going back to the, to thescriptures, um, I already said,
if you are already studyingGreek, well, your next step will
be with the Greek scripturejournal.
But going back to what youmentioned about the question,
(44:22):
how is your reading of thescriptures?
So I would like to invite allviewers.
It doesn't matter if you arenot studying Greek.
We always have an appointmentwith our Lord, with our Savior,
with our God, always.
So let's start.
(44:45):
As I said, let's start again.
There's always this opportunityto start again.
Start with five minutes.
I know there is a professor, agraduate from Harvard University
, who developed a series ofbooks.
They are called Two Minutes aDay.
So two minutes of Greek everyday.
(45:07):
Two minutes of Hebrew every day, two minutes of Latin no,
aramaic, not Latin.
I don't think he has releasedthe Latin, so he thinks about
two minutes.
When I read the one page thatis supposed to be two minutes,
it took me more than two minutes.
So I would say start with fiveminutes and you will find out
(45:29):
that it's not enough.
Then you will want more, youwant to spend more time.
So pray, read and pray, readand pray.
So that's how I would like toend up this conversation, to be
able to start again with thescriptures.
(45:49):
No matter where you are in yourjourney, you can start again
and spend time with the Lord inprayer and in the reading of the
scriptures.
Zack Johnson (46:00):
Yeah, amen, and I just want to say that I know
it's hard to think about this,but there's not a right age.
Even if you're old, it'spossible to start, and I think
from a college perspectivethat's actually our vision is to
actually create a demand wheremore and more young people are
(46:20):
excited about the scriptures.
I think that it will paydividends to have more young
people who are able to rightlyhandle the word of God and are
spending that time daily andthat at the end of their life
that just compounds into atremendous relationship with God
(46:40):
.
And I wanted to take a littlebit of time, if you'll let me so
at the end.
If you are interested in Sattler, there's an open house October
18th through the 19th 2024.
That'll be right here in ourcampus and I think part of that
(47:01):
would be able to.
You'd probably get to see yourclassroom, live a little bit and
meet some of the students, andso please, if you haven't been
made aware of that, come to theopen house.
Thank you so much, jose, forbeing here with me, and then I'm
going to take the opportunityto film out the window really
quick, just to sort of attractstudents.
(47:26):
So, if you didn't know, this isour first time filming, but
Sattler sits on this reallyinteresting view of the Charles
River right here, and did youknow this?
So on this side of the river isBoston and then on that side of
the river is Cambridge.
So right back there you can seeMIT and Harvard, and then come
(47:46):
over to this side and thenthat's the state house right
there.
Jose, do you know if that'sreal gold or fake gold?
I don't know.
Jose Diaz (47:55):
Maybe real All right?
Zack Johnson (47:57):
Well, if you don't know, come to Open House to
find out.
That's good.
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