May 29, 2024 • 42 mins
Description
A Sattler alumnus tells how God took him from his comfort zone to start a business in India. After a personal tragedy revived his passion for eternal things, he replanned his life which eventually led him to prepare at Sattler College. While finishing his studies, he and his team started a business and prepared to move to India. He explains his risky decision to move abroad with his family while relying on the startup for finances. They also discuss following our passions to fulfill God’s desires, how disciplines help us become more like Jesus, and building a habit of meeting strangers. He concludes with advice about how God uses our most painful moments.
Show Notes
Learn more about studying Biblical and Religious Studies at Sattler College.
Mentioned in this episode:
• Prosynergy – Their Marketing and Bookkeeping businesses
• Practicing the Way – by John Mark Comer
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Zack Johnson (00:04):
It is April 10th 2024.
I'm here with [removed] andthis is our first ever distance
recording, so I'm really excitedabout this.
[removed], where are you?
Guest (00:19):
Right now I am in Greater Noida, india, which is in the
capital region near Delhi, india.
Zack Johnson (00:27):
So, [removed], you're also one of our first
alumni on the podcast.
That doesn't work.
At Sattler I've interviewed acouple of alumni who sort of
stayed in the Boston area, andso it's been easy to interview
them.
Can you just tell me a littlebit about yourself, your story,
what you're about and some ofyour passions?
Guest (00:48):
Sure I can do that.
Yeah, so I am married tobeautiful wife [removed] and we
have four amazing children.
My oldest, zico, is eight yearsold, and I have three daughters
that come after that eightyears old, and I have three
(01:10):
daughters that come after that.
So I was born in Virginia andthen my family spent 10 years in
Kenya, africa, during mygrowing up years, came back when
I was 15 and so got to know theUS mainly after I was 15 years
old.
But anyways, yeah, aftergetting married, we continued
(01:30):
living in Virginia for a coupleof years and then came to Sadler
College and had two children at the time.
Two of my children were born inBoston.
It's just a really, reallyawesome time period of our lives
.
Then, after graduating, ummoved to india here to do
business as ministry.
Zack Johnson (01:51):
So it's kind of us in a nutshell that's yeah, and
our lives for our lives kind ofinterconnected a ton while you
were here.
Um, in weird ways I think ourwives are related through I
won't try to quote the exactrelationships think second
cousins.
And then [removed] and I wereinvolved in where you lived at.
(02:15):
You lived in this big placecalled malden towers and we we
met there and and did a lot ofinteresting things together.
So I I feel like you're adistant friend, so I just get a
love having the chance to hearmore about what you're doing.
And I'd love to hear Tim I knowyou're one of the few people
(02:36):
I've met that showed up toSattler, probably with a pretty
intense vision for what youwanted to see happen afterwards,
and I'd love to just hear youtalk about a little bit of the
arc of your story, about havingthis vision showing up to Boston
for four years.
And then I know that there wereother opportunities, other
(03:01):
doors open in your life, butreally choosing to pursue what
you had in mind going to Indiaand I'd love to hear you talk
about that experience and how ithow it all came came to
fruition.
Guest (03:14):
Yeah, sure, absolutely.
So.
When I was 19 years old, mylife changed drastically.
My mother passed away fromcancer and it really shattered
my world completely and all thethings at that point in my life
that were really important to melike my social image and cars
(03:39):
and racing and fixing up carsall of a sudden all these things
just kind of lost their gloryand I was trying to figure out
what's important in life, whatdo I really want?
And so over that time, yeah,god really got a hold of my life
and brought a lot of revival.
I decided that the things thatreally matter are the things
(04:00):
that are going to last intoeternity.
So that's when I started reallyfeeling a call to share my
faith, to share Jesus, toevangelism.
We'd go out on the streets andjust talk to people and spend a
lot of time doing that withfriends, and that became kind of
the overarching calling that Ifelt God had given on my life.
(04:22):
And so, yeah, during my teenyears and everything, I was
fairly radical in that.
And then, after I got marriedactually it was still pretty
radical I told Gina on one ofour dates that she has to be
willing to live in a trailerpark with me.
(04:42):
She wants to marry me, willingto live in a trailer park with
me.
She wants to marry me.
Um, I didn't.
I didn't know why, but I justneeded that level of commitment
to the hard life.
Um, we never actually lived ina trailer park.
Um, it would have been fine ifit would have, but uh, anyways.
Yeah, after we got marriedthough, um, I got a little bit
sidetracked, I, I would say,where I started a company an
(05:07):
automotive repair shop it'sreally interesting trying to
make a lot of money.
I had a lot of fun Again,started getting more into cars
and fixing them up, and I'm justkind of settling in and
building up my house andproperty.
And I felt myself, I knew I waskind of lapsing into
lukewarmness again in myChristian life and materialism,
(05:30):
which is exactly the things thatI've been running away from
since I was 19.
And so there came a point inlife and I was like I need to
make a break with this somehow.
I need to make some sort of bigchange.
I need to make some sort of bigchange.
I need to sell some things.
And so that's when I heardabout Sadler College.
(05:50):
And, yeah, I had been lookinginto some other things as well,
like going into some training,some other places, but nothing
very serious.
But I heard about SadlerCollege and it sounded really
exciting because the mission ofSattler College to prepare
people for impact in the kingdomand what I saw going on with
the churches there in Boston, Iwas like this looks exactly like
(06:15):
the leap that I want to take.
So that's why we decided tostart thinking about this and,
coming to S Sadler College, Iknew exactly what I wanted to do
afterwards.
I knew that the most importantthing in life was making
disciples, planting new churchfellowships, and that's what my
(06:39):
life was all about.
So I basically came to Sadlerjust to become better equipped
for kingdom impact in those ways, and since you guys were making
the promises that this is whatyou're going to do, I took you
up on that and that's yeah.
That's why we moved to Bostonand, yeah, dove into college and
(07:03):
it yeah, I could say more aboutmy experience at sattler, but,
um, I'll just say that myexperience was that he delivered
on that promise and for me, um,keeping that focus the whole
way through college and then ityou know, becoming more specific
to india is an interestingstory too.
(07:23):
I, I hadn't really have aspecific place in mind.
Um, I don't know if you want meto keep talking on that.
Zack Johnson (07:31):
Yeah, I was going to.
I actually was going to askabout when did when did the
specific uh like geographiclocation sort of become a
reality?
And I think I actually think alot, of, a lot of people here
have could learn from you,because I think people have a
general desire, but tooperationalize the desire, I
(07:52):
think there's a lot of redherrings that can show up and
things like that in your story.
So I'd love to love to hearsort of the the desire meets,
the team meets the people andall of that.
The desire meets, the teammeets the people and all of that
.
Guest (08:05):
Yeah, yeah, so there were a couple different things that
I consider all Uganda or city inthe US or something like that.
But my younger brother, titushe's a year and a half younger
than I.
He's here with us.
He had been wanting to move toindia for about eight years, or
(08:30):
at least, um, he had been, yeah,back and forth to india
visiting, and so, yeah, he was apretty big influencer for me
and we met at an airbnb inbaltimore one time this is, yeah
, maybe halfway through my timein college and, um, he really,
uh, tried convincingly to showme why india is one of the
(08:50):
because it's one of the most, um, unreached parts of the world,
why it makes sense that it's themost urgent, and I really did
believe that too, and so, um, weprayed about it and so,
remember, it was like on therooftop of this Airbnb in
Baltimore and then the next day,someone called up Titus.
It was someone who worked atGoogle in California.
(09:13):
He said Shil's called to goback to India.
He heard that Titus isinterested in India, so he would
put a team together, and sojust that happening the next day
made it feel like it was apointer from God, but it was
also, yeah, very much in linewith my convictions of what was
(09:35):
most urgent, and you know wherethe greatest needs are in the
world, so I decided to pursue itfrom there.
So I decided to pursue it fromthere and then, you know, trying
(09:55):
to find these little pointersalong the way to confirm that
was something that I did as well.
And there weren't noteverything was easy and there
were even some people whoquestioned whether it was a good
idea, but there was just asettledness in my heart.
And then, yeah, joe Wine familyfrom Boston.
He were really good friendswith Gina and I, same fellowship
together, working together.
(10:16):
They were like, you know, howcan we support Tim and Gina?
Oh, maybe we could just comealong with them, and so they did
.
And so, yeah, maybe we couldjust come along with them, and
so they did.
And so, yeah, the three of usfamilies became the core team
then, and we did.
(10:36):
You know, I focused my halfstone and everything on team
building and preparing the teamfor moving to India, which was
really helpful.
Zack Johnson (11:06):
Yeah, I'd love to chat a little bit about that,
because, which is really helpful, value the value of four years
of college or education ingeneral.
And I'm always trying tonavigate these conversations
with a young person and really Ikind of have this internal deal
with myself and I, when I, if Ihear what someone wants to do,
I wouldn't want to invite themto be like hey, come to come to
Boston, it's perfect for you,cause it's it's definitely not
perfect for everyone.
Um right decision, I would say.
But would you say that I don'twant to like sell the Sattler
(11:29):
product here too hard?
But doing academic work beforeembarking on your journey, have
you found that to be generallyhelpful at this point?
I know you haven't been overthere tons of time, but there's
sort of a mismatch between theacademics and then the field
work, so to speak.
Have you been able to see anyties between the two?
Guest (11:51):
there and living in the context we did made it even
easier to start putting intopractice things I was learning
even while I was in college.
There was no need to wait untilafter college and start using
(12:17):
the knowledge I was gaining.
And, yes, my major was biblicaland religious studies, and so I
learned a ton about the Bible,a ton about history, and you
know how these movements andthings have happened in the past
.
All of it has been reallyvaluable knowledge, I would say,
(12:39):
but also a big part of it wasjust learning how to be a
disciplined person.
I would say a lot of the smallsuccesses that I've had in
business and in life sincestarting at Sadler College have
been due to just being forced tobecome a very disciplined
(13:02):
person.
Being forced to become a verydisciplined person and, um, and
being in the right environmentwhere it was really encouraged,
where there was accountability,where there's other people who
are outpacing me, um, was areally it was a really good
environment, just till Ideveloped my own self, and so
learning how to manage your ownself is actually it's probably
(13:23):
one of the most valuable thingsI learned, along with the, the
knowledge, but yeah, I would sayeven in business, a lot of
things that I learned.
Just managing time and gettingprojects done was hugely
valuable for business, andgetting things done in business
I did take some business classesas well were helpful, but yeah,
(13:46):
so I would say that yeah, it'svery much has been helpful.
Zack Johnson (13:53):
Yeah, and I'd love to hear a little bit about your
day-to-day in in India.
From what I you know, I don'tI'm not spying on you or
anything so you guys are runninga business and I think that's a
big part of your life and I'dlove to hear a little bit about
what you do throughout the dayand things like that.
Guest (14:13):
Yeah, yeah.
So I get up in the morning and,after a couple of other things
language classes included I headto the office, which is
actually ended up being just upthe street.
We live in what's called asociety, um, where there's a
bunch of villas or houses andthere's an apartment, big tower,
(14:38):
um out by the end of societywith office buildings.
So I get to just walk down thestreet to the office and there's
where we we're pro synergy setup and, yeah, we're.
We have two companies actually.
One is a digital marketingcompany, the other is a
bookkeeping company, and I'mbasically solely involved in the
(15:04):
bookkeeping company, at thispoint at least, in operation,
operationally.
So, yeah, I'll go there andwork.
We have two indian employees, um, so we get to, they get to
teach us how to eat good indianfood and, um, they're really,
really smart people as well.
So, yeah, we have, we have somegood camaraderie in the office.
(15:27):
I work online and we're doingwork for American companies long
American companies to sourcetheir work here and go back.
So, basically, I have a fullfive day work week and we
started the business immediatelyafter arriving and it's pretty
much been sustaining us and thedifferent ministry things we
(15:50):
want to do here.
Zack Johnson (15:52):
That's amazing.
Can you spell the name?
I think I know how to spell it,but what's the name of the
company?
Guest (15:57):
again, it's called ProSynergy.
It's the main brand, pro andSynergy.
Zack Johnson (16:09):
Can you just find it online?
If you look it up, I'm assuming.
Guest (16:14):
Yeah, so you can look up ProSynergy.
You can look at ProSynergybookkeeping and see our website.
Zack Johnson (16:23):
Are you guys looking for new clients, just in
case somebody's, somebody'ssoliciting out there?
Guest (16:28):
that's actually the main um.
Most of my time is spent intrying to get new clients, um,
so we're very much in thestartup growth phase and there's
so much good talent here that,um we could scale it um up big.
Yeah, if there's anybodylooking for bookkeeping work or
digital marketing focus up and,yeah, I think that's ProSynergy.
Zack Johnson (16:56):
Well, hopefully we can help spread the word about
that.
And I actually just I want togive you guys a shout out.
I just I won't mention theperson or the company, but I
know somebody who is workingwith you guys and they were
singing your praises.
The other morning I had ameeting, so I just want to give
you a good shout out there.
You can probably guess who itwas, but we won't get into it.
(17:17):
And then, yeah, the other piecethat I'd love to just chat
about with you is the financesbehind it all.
I know that when I look at yourstory, I really want to make it
(17:38):
possible to make more peoplemake the decisions that you made
.
I think there is a really biglike how is this ever going to
happen?
How am I going to finance thisand sustain it?
And you know I, we, we tookinitiative this year called
entrustment, where we basicallytold students hey, we're not
(17:59):
going to bill you in tuitionright now, we're still.
We still are charging like roomand board and we say, if you
can figure out housing foryourself, you can get here.
And then afterwards we want youguys to make some really radical
, radical life's decisions andwe're praying that some people,
you know, maybe won't maybe takeless lucrative career decisions
(18:20):
and and and make that feasible.
But has god, has god, beenfaithful in the finances?
And is it scary?
Is it?
Do people?
Is that part of like the how doyou look at the decision making
there and how you think aboutall that?
I know it's that's kind of abig question, but I know a lot.
I know that's actually, I think, a main threat as to what keeps
(18:41):
people back and keeps them fromtaking some of the more the
riskier moves in life yeah, yeah, it's a good question.
Guest (18:51):
Um, so for my family, because we were able to sell
some things in virginia, umwasn't quite as tight for us.
Um, as we ended college and Ialso did have some help and some
scholarships, I reallyappreciate that it was very
affordable.
Coming to India, you know, itwas definitely a leap of faith
(19:18):
when we were looking at, okay,so we're going to start a
business and move to India atthe same time and that business
needs to provide for us.
It just doesn't usually workout that amazing, but God did
come through on that and therewas a big contract we were able
to get with the company.
It was sourcing work to uswhere we got to India and we
(19:40):
were able to have plenty of workright away and actually provide
for ourselves.
So there was, yeah, goddefinitely provided.
Another family got into a tightfinancial situation a couple
times and just God came throughevery time.
So, yeah, if you I do believeGod provides His work, you have
(20:07):
a vision.
If someone has a vision fromGod or something, he's not just
going to let them sit, and sothat's the faith that I have and
so far been taken care of.
Zack Johnson (20:22):
Yeah, and then I'd love to hear you talk, and you
don't.
You don't have to be an expertin this, but we I know a lot of
people sort of face this uh,what are what's your thoughts on
?
Like going somewhere, like thelike your life path, going back
(20:42):
to where you came from, likeestablishing yourself in
Virginia, choosing somewherewhere you your passport
somewhere domest, stay in the us, or go back to what I'm
(21:07):
familiar with, or go somewherenew, and I think we were even
chatting the other day aboutyour time horizon, on how long
you want to stay.
Like, is your plan to to beburied there?
Is your plan to to developleadership there and then
hightail it out once it'sdeveloped?
I know that's kind of anegative way to put it, but I'd
(21:32):
love to hear you talk a littlebit about all this thought into
how to think about where to goand how long to stay or to stay
permanently and all those.
I don't think there's a rightanswer.
So you can ramble as much asyou want.
Guest (21:43):
Yeah, you can ramble as much as you want, yeah, yeah, I
mean, for us we don't reallyknow, life is pretty uncertain
here.
We don't know how long we can behere, but, um, we've, we're
here indefinitely, as long as wecan be, and god wants us here,
so that that was actually fairlyfreeing decision to make,
(22:07):
because then we don't need tostore anything in the us and we
just, you know, this is our homeand with our full team having
that attitude, it, yeah, I thinkit was a strength that we had
and I would recommend, if youfeel like God might be calling
you somewhere, just to take thatstep and not be too quick to
(22:31):
like put a time boundary on it,just go and find where God wants
you next.
But as far as, like, making thedecision on whether to stay, you
know, go back home or somethingelse or go abroad I don't have
a lot of wisdom on that.
I do think that if we arereally aligned with God's heart,
(22:56):
seeking to do His will, ifthat's the one thing in our life
that we care about, then we canoften go after the desires of
our heart, the things that wewant that are exciting.
If we're excited about doingGod's will then go after what
you're excited about, and Ithink you'll continue in God's
(23:17):
will.
So if you're excited aboutgoing somewhere, a foreign
country, you're trying somethingnew, you like adventure.
It's great.
If you have a real vision foryour home area, it's great too.
That's my thoughts on thematter.
Zack Johnson (23:36):
No, I'm laughing because it's like well, and if
you don't like adventure, thenjust stay put.
Guest (23:41):
No, I'm just kidding adventure, then just stay put.
No, I'm just, I'm just kidding.
There is a little thing of like.
We should think, you know,logically, about the needs in
the world and you know thatshould be foremost on our heart.
How do we solve the bigproblems in the world?
And so where are those needs?
And you know, if there's?
There's this analogy where youknow there's a log you have to
(24:03):
pick up and if there's like 100people on one side and only one
on the other, then why don't yougo join the person that's by
himself to lift that side?
I think it's probably good tofactor that in as well.
(24:48):
We were coming back from a smallgroup meeting and we were just
talking about it.
How this feels like home.
Definitely feels like home.
Now there's something thatshifts with time.
We've been here seven, eightmonths now and it takes some
time for it to feel like home.
But I would say for myself itfelt like home pretty quickly.
(25:11):
I, growing up in kenya for 10years, I sort of feel at home
when I'm in a foreign place.
It's weird um, not the same formy wife exactly but I feel in
my element when I'm out of jailor something, something odd like
that.
Zack Johnson (25:30):
My wife and I talk about that a lot, where I think
she would describe herself as ahomebody, and I'm like a
homebody for maybe three weeksand then, after week three, I'm
like let's go, let's findsomething new.
And I get it.
I want to revisit something youmentioned just because I think
(25:51):
it's interesting and we thinkabout it a lot.
Here is the two words you knowdiscipline and discipleship.
You know related words, um, atleast in the dictionary, and you
know one of the one of thethings that I am always need to
(26:13):
be careful of is I came from,you know my background.
I came from like a militarywhere discipline is like almost
almost an idol.
You could put it up there withlike the, the levels of
disciplines that they theyrequire of you and then and then
the idea is that those willpropel you through any situation
(26:34):
.
It's like if you can establishdisciplines in the small things
and and in hard environments,then no environment, every
environment, becomes feasible toendure and persevere through.
So I think there's totallysomething about that.
Um, and then, in terms of how tomap that on to a large swath of
(26:54):
people is something I stillhaven't quite nailed down as to
like how much discipline toprescribe on every kind of
person.
I'll even prescribing differentdisciplines for men and women,
for people who come from or liketo wake up in the morning,
versus who who don't like towake up in the morning, and then
(27:14):
just thinking about that interms of church life and things
like that, are there any?
Are there any disciplines,either spiritual ones or other
disciplines, that you think areworth continuing to cultivate?
Just not it doesn't have to beat a in the college environment,
but just in general in life.
Are there disciplines that youthink are really worth investing
(27:36):
in and into yourself and a lot,of, a lot of times?
That's why I make the.
I make the case like hey, ifyou struggle with self, with
cultivating these in yourenvironment, then choose an
environment that's more likelyto cultivate it for you, which
is a pitch for the collegeenvironment in general.
But I'd love to hear you talkabout some of those disciplines
(27:58):
and maybe how you think about itpersonally right now.
Guest (28:02):
Maybe how you think about it personally right now.
Yeah, yeah, I think about thedisciplines in terms of like be
(28:26):
one of the primary things thathe would get away, and even with
solitude he would get away fromeverything, from the noise and
the hustle, and just spend longamounts of time in the mountain
or during the night in prayerand, you know, communicating
with the Father.
And so I think that those youknow that Jesus did are
(28:49):
especially important.
But then, like, for differentpeople, I think different things
are just going to resonate moreand sometimes for one person
something might work really well.
Sometimes for one personsomething might work really well
Getting up really early andreading and journaling.
(29:10):
Reading the Bible and journalingI mean journaling works really
good for somebody.
Someone else just likes toquiet and meditate cross-legged
on the floor.
There's so many different waysthat you can keep it kind of
exciting if you're interested in, like, what are the ways that
you know, the things that I cando in times of the day or
(29:33):
different rhythms I can build inmy life to help me keep my mind
on God and become more likeJesus.
I think it was good for me tobe pushed in those at college
just to have someone say, well,these are really good
disciplines and we're going totry to do these, was really good
(29:55):
for me.
So I'm the type of person thatI think responded where it
worked for me to basically havethese set of disciplines that
we're trying to do and trying totrack.
That was good for me and,honestly, after college it's
hard to keep that going becauseI didn't have the structure
(30:17):
anymore and I kind of miss it.
So that's just my experience,but I know that's not
everybody's experience.
Zack Johnson (30:23):
Yeah, yeah, so and then.
So one of the things maybe I'llask about trying to think
exactly how to frame thisquestion, one of the things that
I think is relevant adiscipline that maybe a lot of
people don't think about as adiscipline is or maybe it's a
(30:45):
habit regularly forcing yourselfto interact with people who you
wouldn't necessarily beinteracting with.
Some people call it you know itcould be evangelism, or it's
just forming friendships outsideyour typical circles, like
(31:11):
learning how to, how to spendyour time, especially with other
people that you, that it's notnormal for me to go approach
this person in life and havethem over for dinner or, you
know, do a, do a study with themor something like that.
How does that, uh, come out inyour life?
Because tim was part of the, aclub here called the m29 Club.
We don't have to get intoexactly what that was, but I
viewed you here as reallyforming that discipline of
(31:34):
interacting with people a lotmore beyond your typical school
circles that are in the city andthings like that.
Guest (31:43):
Yeah, yeah, that's a good one.
Yeah, that's a good one.
It's interesting you ask mebecause I'm an introvert and
actually have a lot of socialanxiety, especially when I first
came to Sattler College.
It was difficult for me and I'mguessing you saw some changes
in the way that I related in myconfidence with people.
(32:06):
I was a very fearful person andactually, just yeah, being in
that environment and, you know,organizing some of those things
with people, working with people, were just because that was my
passion and you can't doanything in life alone.
You have to learn how to do itwith people alone.
(32:33):
You have to learn how to do itwith people, um, so it just it.
You know, I had to kind offorce myself to be honest and
get into scary situations andplaces where I'm really nervous
and and that sort of thing, butI knew that that's what I wanted
and so I'm willing to to do it.
I do think it's good likelearning, learning people,
learning people's skills and howto really listen to other
(32:55):
people and care about them andunderstand other people's
emotions.
It's emotional intelligence,what you call it, um is like a
really important skill that I'mstill trying to learn, still
have a long ways to go in thatone.
Zack Johnson (33:11):
but yeah, and then so I'll just.
I just think that I this ismore of something I'm thinking
about, so I love your feedbackon it.
We I was having a conversationthe other day about you're gonna
get a kick out of this citiesand masculinity, and there's
there's someone that wasconcerned about raising boys in
(33:34):
a city that was basically saying, hey, is it even possible to do
, to be, to develop like the,the correct form of masculinity
and femininity in cities andtheir?
Their hypothesis was thatcities are now becoming less
masculine and more feminine.
I won't get into the detailsabout all that, but I'd love to
(33:58):
hear you talk about cities andurban environments.
Is it possible to develop agodly view of masculinity and
femininity with with all that?
And then the?
The side conversation to that isthat I think that there's sort
(34:20):
of an idea that, in order to beliving out what sort of god's
intended order for creation, youshould be working in the field
with your hands getting dirty,cutting down trees, being a
mechanic having grease all overyour hands, and I was just we
were sitting there talking thatsomehow it feels like it's
(34:43):
possible to be, to be developingGod's proper order in cities
and in the country.
But there's also a tendency torun away from some of the hard
things that Christ has called usto and pursue comforts, and so
there's this balance of tryingto make sure your life isn't too
comfortable.
Where you're running away fromthe very thing that Christ has
(35:05):
called us to is to be fishers ofmen.
So I'd love to hear you anythoughts you have on that, to
develop my own way to way torespond to cities and
masculinity.
It was a completely newquestion but it was intriguing
to me.
Guest (35:20):
Yeah, that is an intriguing question.
I'm not quite sure.
I'm not quite sure how torespond to that.
To be honest, I don't reallyknow.
I'm not quite sure how torespond to that.
To be honest, I don't reallyknow I'm not sure if I really
understand where that questioncomes from.
I mean, I think the view ofmasculinity and femininity I
(35:43):
said it right there it'scultivated in your family,
parents, um, and your, yourfriends and your community, I
think, influenced that a lot.
Um, as far as, like, city versuscountry, I don't think there's
any, you know, push either wayto like a good understanding or
(36:06):
a bad one of it.
Um, I, there was definitely ashift for me from, like, working
with my hands.
I've done construction andlandscaping and mechanic work,
repairing cars um, there was ashift, you know, coming to
sattler working on my computer.
Now I work on ears all day long, um, but I, I would like to
(36:29):
think that I haven't become lessof a man through the process.
Um, yeah, I, yeah, I, I dothink you know, sometimes it is
good we need to go groundourselves, like we've got a
little backyard out here, reallydigging the dirt, children and
plants and plants and flowers,and that's a good thing, um, get
(36:52):
your hands dirty sometimes, andtoo much technology and
man-made inventions can bedisorienting too.
So it's good to get out intonature and everything but yeah,
(37:18):
yeah, so I'm.
Zack Johnson (37:19):
Maybe we're approaching the around, the time
where people usually yeah,audience or the general people.
Is there anything that you'dyou'd like to leave?
Leave here another way, youknow.
Is there a pearl of wisdom thatthat you remind yourself often,
that you want to share with,with anyone listening, but yeah,
(37:42):
I, I think so.
Guest (37:44):
I started off um in the podcast talking a little bit
about what changed for me when Iwas 19.
And I really do think that thatmoment set the trajectory of my
life, what I did with thatreally painful moment in my life
and you know I've had a lot ofother painful moments since then
but I think everyone's going tocome across something that is
(38:11):
devastating in their life, andit's actually many times.
I think it's a time when Godwants to take in and clarify
your vision and what matters inlife and what matters for
eternity in life and whatmatters for eternity.
And having that really settlein your mind that you know I'm
(38:41):
not going to go after materialthings or worldly gain or
anything like that, but I'mgoing to totally devote my life
completely to doing the Father'swill and trying to be like
Jesus.
Having that settle before you goto college is a really good
thing, as people get afraid ofyoung people going to college
and they get disoriented andeverything, and I think you
(39:03):
could find that at college too.
It's not like you have to havethat beforehand, but I do think
it was really good for me tohave some of those experiences
behind me and thinking of goingto college or moving across the
world or anything like that.
That's a pretty poor thing tosettle.
(39:24):
There's nothing more excitingthan trying to build God's
kingdom, and there's nothingmore valuable than laying up
treasure in heaven, and so whynot have a very exciting life
and build the greatest values?
(39:45):
Cool, teach your kingdom workvalues cool.
Zack Johnson (39:55):
Teach your kingdom work.
Seek first the kingdom.
Yeah, amen.
And then are there any you know?
Just, I love listening topeople, what they, what they
read, what they follow.
Is there anything that you thatyou read or follow or listen to
, that you you like to talkabout or recommend to other
people?
Guest (40:07):
that doesn't have to be a yes yes, I read a book um
recently by john mark comer.
There was a new book that cameout and he talked about I think
it was called practicing the wayand how.
The title is I think that's theright title, highly recommend
(40:30):
that book and it was just areally he has a really great way
of talking about spiritualdisciplines and just about a
life of discipleship in generalin terms that, like you know,
people our age get and likeresonate with.
So that's a book that I wouldrecommend.
(40:51):
I was pretty influential I itgave me like this boost to like
um, get back to a great umschedule spiritual disciplines
again he has a.
Zack Johnson (41:04):
He has another book that got passed around in
our my circles called theruthless and elimination of
hurry, and it's I, yeah, Irecommend that book to to some
people.
Yeah, it's, it's a good book,he's a, he's a.
His, uh, his writing's reallyeasy to to consume and from my,
from my perspective, yeah, anyany other anything else I don't
(41:26):
think so, and great and yeah.
So again, if you want to keepup with Tim, I think pro synergy
just find that on the interwebs, you can look that up.
And yeah, tim, I'm praying thata lot more people that come
through Boston have the.
(41:46):
I just think the scope of yourvision has been really inspiring
to see you operationalize thatand and live it out, and I I
hope that we can figure out howto, how some students can show
up here to make similar moves asyou did.
I know, I know it's animpressive template from my,
(42:10):
from my impressive.
It's an inspirational templatefor for some people.
So I hope more people startthinking a lot more like you.
And thanks so much for takingthe time to be with us.
Uh, we don't yet have a podcasttitle, but someday we might.
It's more just the Sattlerpodcast right now where we talk
about people in our networks andwhat they're doing and what's
(42:30):
on on their minds.
So, thanks, thanks for beinghere and send, uh send my
regards to, to everyone in Indiathat I know your, your family
and the wines, and and beyond,will do.
Guest (42:43):
Yep, it's been great talking with you again yeah, you
too.
It is April 10th 2024.
I'm here with [removed] andthis is our first ever distance
recording, so I'm really excitedabout this.
[removed], where are you?
Guest (00:19):
Right now I am in Greater Noida, india, which is in the
capital region near Delhi, india.
Zack Johnson (00:27):
So, [removed], you're also one of our first
alumni on the podcast.
That doesn't work.
At Sattler I've interviewed acouple of alumni who sort of
stayed in the Boston area, andso it's been easy to interview
them.
Can you just tell me a littlebit about yourself, your story,
what you're about and some ofyour passions?
Guest (00:48):
Sure I can do that.
Yeah, so I am married tobeautiful wife [removed] and we
have four amazing children.
My oldest, zico, is eight yearsold, and I have three daughters
that come after that eightyears old, and I have three
(01:10):
daughters that come after that.
So I was born in Virginia andthen my family spent 10 years in
Kenya, africa, during mygrowing up years, came back when
I was 15 and so got to know theUS mainly after I was 15 years
old.
But anyways, yeah, aftergetting married, we continued
(01:30):
living in Virginia for a coupleof years and then came to Sadler
College and had two children at the time.
Two of my children were born inBoston.
It's just a really, reallyawesome time period of our lives
.
Then, after graduating, ummoved to india here to do
business as ministry.
Zack Johnson (01:51):
So it's kind of us in a nutshell that's yeah, and
our lives for our lives kind ofinterconnected a ton while you
were here.
Um, in weird ways I think ourwives are related through I
won't try to quote the exactrelationships think second
cousins.
And then [removed] and I wereinvolved in where you lived at.
(02:15):
You lived in this big placecalled malden towers and we we
met there and and did a lot ofinteresting things together.
So I I feel like you're adistant friend, so I just get a
love having the chance to hearmore about what you're doing.
And I'd love to hear Tim I knowyou're one of the few people
(02:36):
I've met that showed up toSattler, probably with a pretty
intense vision for what youwanted to see happen afterwards,
and I'd love to just hear youtalk about a little bit of the
arc of your story, about havingthis vision showing up to Boston
for four years.
And then I know that there wereother opportunities, other
(03:01):
doors open in your life, butreally choosing to pursue what
you had in mind going to Indiaand I'd love to hear you talk
about that experience and how ithow it all came came to
fruition.
Guest (03:14):
Yeah, sure, absolutely.
So.
When I was 19 years old, mylife changed drastically.
My mother passed away fromcancer and it really shattered
my world completely and all thethings at that point in my life
that were really important to melike my social image and cars
(03:39):
and racing and fixing up carsall of a sudden all these things
just kind of lost their gloryand I was trying to figure out
what's important in life, whatdo I really want?
And so over that time, yeah,god really got a hold of my life
and brought a lot of revival.
I decided that the things thatreally matter are the things
(04:00):
that are going to last intoeternity.
So that's when I started reallyfeeling a call to share my
faith, to share Jesus, toevangelism.
We'd go out on the streets andjust talk to people and spend a
lot of time doing that withfriends, and that became kind of
the overarching calling that Ifelt God had given on my life.
(04:22):
And so, yeah, during my teenyears and everything, I was
fairly radical in that.
And then, after I got marriedactually it was still pretty
radical I told Gina on one ofour dates that she has to be
willing to live in a trailerpark with me.
(04:42):
She wants to marry me, willingto live in a trailer park with
me.
She wants to marry me.
Um, I didn't.
I didn't know why, but I justneeded that level of commitment
to the hard life.
Um, we never actually lived ina trailer park.
Um, it would have been fine ifit would have, but uh, anyways.
Yeah, after we got marriedthough, um, I got a little bit
sidetracked, I, I would say,where I started a company an
(05:07):
automotive repair shop it'sreally interesting trying to
make a lot of money.
I had a lot of fun Again,started getting more into cars
and fixing them up, and I'm justkind of settling in and
building up my house andproperty.
And I felt myself, I knew I waskind of lapsing into
lukewarmness again in myChristian life and materialism,
(05:30):
which is exactly the things thatI've been running away from
since I was 19.
And so there came a point inlife and I was like I need to
make a break with this somehow.
I need to make some sort of bigchange.
I need to make some sort of bigchange.
I need to sell some things.
And so that's when I heardabout Sadler College.
(05:50):
And, yeah, I had been lookinginto some other things as well,
like going into some training,some other places, but nothing
very serious.
But I heard about SadlerCollege and it sounded really
exciting because the mission ofSattler College to prepare
people for impact in the kingdomand what I saw going on with
the churches there in Boston, Iwas like this looks exactly like
(06:15):
the leap that I want to take.
So that's why we decided tostart thinking about this and,
coming to S Sadler College, Iknew exactly what I wanted to do
afterwards.
I knew that the most importantthing in life was making
disciples, planting new churchfellowships, and that's what my
(06:39):
life was all about.
So I basically came to Sadlerjust to become better equipped
for kingdom impact in those ways, and since you guys were making
the promises that this is whatyou're going to do, I took you
up on that and that's yeah.
That's why we moved to Bostonand, yeah, dove into college and
(07:03):
it yeah, I could say more aboutmy experience at sattler, but,
um, I'll just say that myexperience was that he delivered
on that promise and for me, um,keeping that focus the whole
way through college and then ityou know, becoming more specific
to india is an interestingstory too.
(07:23):
I, I hadn't really have aspecific place in mind.
Um, I don't know if you want meto keep talking on that.
Zack Johnson (07:31):
Yeah, I was going to.
I actually was going to askabout when did when did the
specific uh like geographiclocation sort of become a
reality?
And I think I actually think alot, of, a lot of people here
have could learn from you,because I think people have a
general desire, but tooperationalize the desire, I
(07:52):
think there's a lot of redherrings that can show up and
things like that in your story.
So I'd love to love to hearsort of the the desire meets,
the team meets the people andall of that.
The desire meets, the teammeets the people and all of that
.
Guest (08:05):
Yeah, yeah, so there were a couple different things that
I consider all Uganda or city inthe US or something like that.
But my younger brother, titushe's a year and a half younger
than I.
He's here with us.
He had been wanting to move toindia for about eight years, or
(08:30):
at least, um, he had been, yeah,back and forth to india
visiting, and so, yeah, he was apretty big influencer for me
and we met at an airbnb inbaltimore one time this is, yeah
, maybe halfway through my timein college and, um, he really,
uh, tried convincingly to showme why india is one of the
(08:50):
because it's one of the most, um, unreached parts of the world,
why it makes sense that it's themost urgent, and I really did
believe that too, and so, um, weprayed about it and so,
remember, it was like on therooftop of this Airbnb in
Baltimore and then the next day,someone called up Titus.
It was someone who worked atGoogle in California.
(09:13):
He said Shil's called to goback to India.
He heard that Titus isinterested in India, so he would
put a team together, and sojust that happening the next day
made it feel like it was apointer from God, but it was
also, yeah, very much in linewith my convictions of what was
(09:35):
most urgent, and you know wherethe greatest needs are in the
world, so I decided to pursue itfrom there.
So I decided to pursue it fromthere and then, you know, trying
(09:55):
to find these little pointersalong the way to confirm that
was something that I did as well.
And there weren't noteverything was easy and there
were even some people whoquestioned whether it was a good
idea, but there was just asettledness in my heart.
And then, yeah, joe Wine familyfrom Boston.
He were really good friendswith Gina and I, same fellowship
together, working together.
(10:16):
They were like, you know, howcan we support Tim and Gina?
Oh, maybe we could just comealong with them, and so they did
.
And so, yeah, maybe we couldjust come along with them, and
so they did.
And so, yeah, the three of usfamilies became the core team
then, and we did.
(10:36):
You know, I focused my halfstone and everything on team
building and preparing the teamfor moving to India, which was
really helpful.
Zack Johnson (11:06):
Yeah, I'd love to chat a little bit about that,
because, which is really helpful, value the value of four years
of college or education ingeneral.
And I'm always trying tonavigate these conversations
with a young person and really Ikind of have this internal deal
with myself and I, when I, if Ihear what someone wants to do,
I wouldn't want to invite themto be like hey, come to come to
Boston, it's perfect for you,cause it's it's definitely not
perfect for everyone.
Um right decision, I would say.
But would you say that I don'twant to like sell the Sattler
(11:29):
product here too hard?
But doing academic work beforeembarking on your journey, have
you found that to be generallyhelpful at this point?
I know you haven't been overthere tons of time, but there's
sort of a mismatch between theacademics and then the field
work, so to speak.
Have you been able to see anyties between the two?
Guest (11:51):
there and living in the context we did made it even
easier to start putting intopractice things I was learning
even while I was in college.
There was no need to wait untilafter college and start using
(12:17):
the knowledge I was gaining.
And, yes, my major was biblicaland religious studies, and so I
learned a ton about the Bible,a ton about history, and you
know how these movements andthings have happened in the past
.
All of it has been reallyvaluable knowledge, I would say,
(12:39):
but also a big part of it wasjust learning how to be a
disciplined person.
I would say a lot of the smallsuccesses that I've had in
business and in life sincestarting at Sadler College have
been due to just being forced tobecome a very disciplined
(13:02):
person.
Being forced to become a verydisciplined person and, um, and
being in the right environmentwhere it was really encouraged,
where there was accountability,where there's other people who
are outpacing me, um, was areally it was a really good
environment, just till Ideveloped my own self, and so
learning how to manage your ownself is actually it's probably
(13:23):
one of the most valuable thingsI learned, along with the, the
knowledge, but yeah, I would sayeven in business, a lot of
things that I learned.
Just managing time and gettingprojects done was hugely
valuable for business, andgetting things done in business
I did take some business classesas well were helpful, but yeah,
(13:46):
so I would say that yeah, it'svery much has been helpful.
Zack Johnson (13:53):
Yeah, and I'd love to hear a little bit about your
day-to-day in in India.
From what I you know, I don'tI'm not spying on you or
anything so you guys are runninga business and I think that's a
big part of your life and I'dlove to hear a little bit about
what you do throughout the dayand things like that.
Guest (14:13):
Yeah, yeah.
So I get up in the morning and,after a couple of other things
language classes included I headto the office, which is
actually ended up being just upthe street.
We live in what's called asociety, um, where there's a
bunch of villas or houses andthere's an apartment, big tower,
(14:38):
um out by the end of societywith office buildings.
So I get to just walk down thestreet to the office and there's
where we we're pro synergy setup and, yeah, we're.
We have two companies actually.
One is a digital marketingcompany, the other is a
bookkeeping company, and I'mbasically solely involved in the
(15:04):
bookkeeping company, at thispoint at least, in operation,
operationally.
So, yeah, I'll go there andwork.
We have two indian employees, um, so we get to, they get to
teach us how to eat good indianfood and, um, they're really,
really smart people as well.
So, yeah, we have, we have somegood camaraderie in the office.
(15:27):
I work online and we're doingwork for American companies long
American companies to sourcetheir work here and go back.
So, basically, I have a fullfive day work week and we
started the business immediatelyafter arriving and it's pretty
much been sustaining us and thedifferent ministry things we
(15:50):
want to do here.
Zack Johnson (15:52):
That's amazing.
Can you spell the name?
I think I know how to spell it,but what's the name of the
company?
Guest (15:57):
again, it's called ProSynergy.
It's the main brand, pro andSynergy.
Zack Johnson (16:09):
Can you just find it online?
If you look it up, I'm assuming.
Guest (16:14):
Yeah, so you can look up ProSynergy.
You can look at ProSynergybookkeeping and see our website.
Zack Johnson (16:23):
Are you guys looking for new clients, just in
case somebody's, somebody'ssoliciting out there?
Guest (16:28):
that's actually the main um.
Most of my time is spent intrying to get new clients, um,
so we're very much in thestartup growth phase and there's
so much good talent here that,um we could scale it um up big.
Yeah, if there's anybodylooking for bookkeeping work or
digital marketing focus up and,yeah, I think that's ProSynergy.
Zack Johnson (16:56):
Well, hopefully we can help spread the word about
that.
And I actually just I want togive you guys a shout out.
I just I won't mention theperson or the company, but I
know somebody who is workingwith you guys and they were
singing your praises.
The other morning I had ameeting, so I just want to give
you a good shout out there.
You can probably guess who itwas, but we won't get into it.
(17:17):
And then, yeah, the other piecethat I'd love to just chat
about with you is the financesbehind it all.
I know that when I look at yourstory, I really want to make it
(17:38):
possible to make more peoplemake the decisions that you made
.
I think there is a really biglike how is this ever going to
happen?
How am I going to finance thisand sustain it?
And you know I, we, we tookinitiative this year called
entrustment, where we basicallytold students hey, we're not
(17:59):
going to bill you in tuitionright now, we're still.
We still are charging like roomand board and we say, if you
can figure out housing foryourself, you can get here.
And then afterwards we want youguys to make some really radical
, radical life's decisions andwe're praying that some people,
you know, maybe won't maybe takeless lucrative career decisions
(18:20):
and and and make that feasible.
But has god, has god, beenfaithful in the finances?
And is it scary?
Is it?
Do people?
Is that part of like the how doyou look at the decision making
there and how you think aboutall that?
I know it's that's kind of abig question, but I know a lot.
I know that's actually, I think, a main threat as to what keeps
(18:41):
people back and keeps them fromtaking some of the more the
riskier moves in life yeah, yeah, it's a good question.
Guest (18:51):
Um, so for my family, because we were able to sell
some things in virginia, umwasn't quite as tight for us.
Um, as we ended college and Ialso did have some help and some
scholarships, I reallyappreciate that it was very
affordable.
Coming to India, you know, itwas definitely a leap of faith
(19:18):
when we were looking at, okay,so we're going to start a
business and move to India atthe same time and that business
needs to provide for us.
It just doesn't usually workout that amazing, but God did
come through on that and therewas a big contract we were able
to get with the company.
It was sourcing work to uswhere we got to India and we
(19:40):
were able to have plenty of workright away and actually provide
for ourselves.
So there was, yeah, goddefinitely provided.
Another family got into a tightfinancial situation a couple
times and just God came throughevery time.
So, yeah, if you I do believeGod provides His work, you have
(20:07):
a vision.
If someone has a vision fromGod or something, he's not just
going to let them sit, and sothat's the faith that I have and
so far been taken care of.
Zack Johnson (20:22):
Yeah, and then I'd love to hear you talk, and you
don't.
You don't have to be an expertin this, but we I know a lot of
people sort of face this uh,what are what's your thoughts on
?
Like going somewhere, like thelike your life path, going back
(20:42):
to where you came from, likeestablishing yourself in
Virginia, choosing somewherewhere you your passport
somewhere domest, stay in the us, or go back to what I'm
(21:07):
familiar with, or go somewherenew, and I think we were even
chatting the other day aboutyour time horizon, on how long
you want to stay.
Like, is your plan to to beburied there?
Is your plan to to developleadership there and then
hightail it out once it'sdeveloped?
I know that's kind of anegative way to put it, but I'd
(21:32):
love to hear you talk a littlebit about all this thought into
how to think about where to goand how long to stay or to stay
permanently and all those.
I don't think there's a rightanswer.
So you can ramble as much asyou want.
Guest (21:43):
Yeah, you can ramble as much as you want, yeah, yeah, I
mean, for us we don't reallyknow, life is pretty uncertain
here.
We don't know how long we can behere, but, um, we've, we're
here indefinitely, as long as wecan be, and god wants us here,
so that that was actually fairlyfreeing decision to make,
(22:07):
because then we don't need tostore anything in the us and we
just, you know, this is our homeand with our full team having
that attitude, it, yeah, I thinkit was a strength that we had
and I would recommend, if youfeel like God might be calling
you somewhere, just to take thatstep and not be too quick to
(22:31):
like put a time boundary on it,just go and find where God wants
you next.
But as far as, like, making thedecision on whether to stay, you
know, go back home or somethingelse or go abroad I don't have
a lot of wisdom on that.
I do think that if we arereally aligned with God's heart,
(22:56):
seeking to do His will, ifthat's the one thing in our life
that we care about, then we canoften go after the desires of
our heart, the things that wewant that are exciting.
If we're excited about doingGod's will then go after what
you're excited about, and Ithink you'll continue in God's
(23:17):
will.
So if you're excited aboutgoing somewhere, a foreign
country, you're trying somethingnew, you like adventure.
It's great.
If you have a real vision foryour home area, it's great too.
That's my thoughts on thematter.
Zack Johnson (23:36):
No, I'm laughing because it's like well, and if
you don't like adventure, thenjust stay put.
Guest (23:41):
No, I'm just kidding adventure, then just stay put.
No, I'm just, I'm just kidding.
There is a little thing of like.
We should think, you know,logically, about the needs in
the world and you know thatshould be foremost on our heart.
How do we solve the bigproblems in the world?
And so where are those needs?
And you know, if there's?
There's this analogy where youknow there's a log you have to
(24:03):
pick up and if there's like 100people on one side and only one
on the other, then why don't yougo join the person that's by
himself to lift that side?
I think it's probably good tofactor that in as well.
(24:48):
We were coming back from a smallgroup meeting and we were just
talking about it.
How this feels like home.
Definitely feels like home.
Now there's something thatshifts with time.
We've been here seven, eightmonths now and it takes some
time for it to feel like home.
But I would say for myself itfelt like home pretty quickly.
(25:11):
I, growing up in kenya for 10years, I sort of feel at home
when I'm in a foreign place.
It's weird um, not the same formy wife exactly but I feel in
my element when I'm out of jailor something, something odd like
that.
Zack Johnson (25:30):
My wife and I talk about that a lot, where I think
she would describe herself as ahomebody, and I'm like a
homebody for maybe three weeksand then, after week three, I'm
like let's go, let's findsomething new.
And I get it.
I want to revisit something youmentioned just because I think
(25:51):
it's interesting and we thinkabout it a lot.
Here is the two words you knowdiscipline and discipleship.
You know related words, um, atleast in the dictionary, and you
know one of the one of thethings that I am always need to
(26:13):
be careful of is I came from,you know my background.
I came from like a militarywhere discipline is like almost
almost an idol.
You could put it up there withlike the, the levels of
disciplines that they theyrequire of you and then and then
the idea is that those willpropel you through any situation
(26:34):
.
It's like if you can establishdisciplines in the small things
and and in hard environments,then no environment, every
environment, becomes feasible toendure and persevere through.
So I think there's totallysomething about that.
Um, and then, in terms of how tomap that on to a large swath of
(26:54):
people is something I stillhaven't quite nailed down as to
like how much discipline toprescribe on every kind of
person.
I'll even prescribing differentdisciplines for men and women,
for people who come from or liketo wake up in the morning,
versus who who don't like towake up in the morning, and then
(27:14):
just thinking about that interms of church life and things
like that, are there any?
Are there any disciplines,either spiritual ones or other
disciplines, that you think areworth continuing to cultivate?
Just not it doesn't have to beat a in the college environment,
but just in general in life.
Are there disciplines that youthink are really worth investing
(27:36):
in and into yourself and a lot,of, a lot of times?
That's why I make the.
I make the case like hey, ifyou struggle with self, with
cultivating these in yourenvironment, then choose an
environment that's more likelyto cultivate it for you, which
is a pitch for the collegeenvironment in general.
But I'd love to hear you talkabout some of those disciplines
(27:58):
and maybe how you think about itpersonally right now.
Guest (28:02):
Maybe how you think about it personally right now.
Yeah, yeah, I think about thedisciplines in terms of like be
(28:26):
one of the primary things thathe would get away, and even with
solitude he would get away fromeverything, from the noise and
the hustle, and just spend longamounts of time in the mountain
or during the night in prayerand, you know, communicating
with the Father.
And so I think that those youknow that Jesus did are
(28:49):
especially important.
But then, like, for differentpeople, I think different things
are just going to resonate moreand sometimes for one person
something might work really well.
Sometimes for one personsomething might work really well
Getting up really early andreading and journaling.
(29:10):
Reading the Bible and journalingI mean journaling works really
good for somebody.
Someone else just likes toquiet and meditate cross-legged
on the floor.
There's so many different waysthat you can keep it kind of
exciting if you're interested in, like, what are the ways that
you know, the things that I cando in times of the day or
(29:33):
different rhythms I can build inmy life to help me keep my mind
on God and become more likeJesus.
I think it was good for me tobe pushed in those at college
just to have someone say, well,these are really good
disciplines and we're going totry to do these, was really good
(29:55):
for me.
So I'm the type of person thatI think responded where it
worked for me to basically havethese set of disciplines that
we're trying to do and trying totrack.
That was good for me and,honestly, after college it's
hard to keep that going becauseI didn't have the structure
(30:17):
anymore and I kind of miss it.
So that's just my experience,but I know that's not
everybody's experience.
Zack Johnson (30:23):
Yeah, yeah, so and then.
So one of the things maybe I'llask about trying to think
exactly how to frame thisquestion, one of the things that
I think is relevant adiscipline that maybe a lot of
people don't think about as adiscipline is or maybe it's a
(30:45):
habit regularly forcing yourselfto interact with people who you
wouldn't necessarily beinteracting with.
Some people call it you know itcould be evangelism, or it's
just forming friendships outsideyour typical circles, like
(31:11):
learning how to, how to spendyour time, especially with other
people that you, that it's notnormal for me to go approach
this person in life and havethem over for dinner or, you
know, do a, do a study with themor something like that.
How does that, uh, come out inyour life?
Because tim was part of the, aclub here called the m29 Club.
We don't have to get intoexactly what that was, but I
viewed you here as reallyforming that discipline of
(31:34):
interacting with people a lotmore beyond your typical school
circles that are in the city andthings like that.
Guest (31:43):
Yeah, yeah, that's a good one.
Yeah, that's a good one.
It's interesting you ask mebecause I'm an introvert and
actually have a lot of socialanxiety, especially when I first
came to Sattler College.
It was difficult for me and I'mguessing you saw some changes
in the way that I related in myconfidence with people.
(32:06):
I was a very fearful person andactually, just yeah, being in
that environment and, you know,organizing some of those things
with people, working with people, were just because that was my
passion and you can't doanything in life alone.
You have to learn how to do itwith people alone.
(32:33):
You have to learn how to do itwith people, um, so it just it.
You know, I had to kind offorce myself to be honest and
get into scary situations andplaces where I'm really nervous
and and that sort of thing, butI knew that that's what I wanted
and so I'm willing to to do it.
I do think it's good likelearning, learning people,
learning people's skills and howto really listen to other
(32:55):
people and care about them andunderstand other people's
emotions.
It's emotional intelligence,what you call it, um is like a
really important skill that I'mstill trying to learn, still
have a long ways to go in thatone.
Zack Johnson (33:11):
but yeah, and then so I'll just.
I just think that I this ismore of something I'm thinking
about, so I love your feedbackon it.
We I was having a conversationthe other day about you're gonna
get a kick out of this citiesand masculinity, and there's
there's someone that wasconcerned about raising boys in
(33:34):
a city that was basically saying, hey, is it even possible to do
, to be, to develop like the,the correct form of masculinity
and femininity in cities andtheir?
Their hypothesis was thatcities are now becoming less
masculine and more feminine.
I won't get into the detailsabout all that, but I'd love to
(33:58):
hear you talk about cities andurban environments.
Is it possible to develop agodly view of masculinity and
femininity with with all that?
And then the?
The side conversation to that isthat I think that there's sort
(34:20):
of an idea that, in order to beliving out what sort of god's
intended order for creation, youshould be working in the field
with your hands getting dirty,cutting down trees, being a
mechanic having grease all overyour hands, and I was just we
were sitting there talking thatsomehow it feels like it's
(34:43):
possible to be, to be developingGod's proper order in cities
and in the country.
But there's also a tendency torun away from some of the hard
things that Christ has called usto and pursue comforts, and so
there's this balance of tryingto make sure your life isn't too
comfortable.
Where you're running away fromthe very thing that Christ has
(35:05):
called us to is to be fishers ofmen.
So I'd love to hear you anythoughts you have on that, to
develop my own way to way torespond to cities and
masculinity.
It was a completely newquestion but it was intriguing
to me.
Guest (35:20):
Yeah, that is an intriguing question.
I'm not quite sure.
I'm not quite sure how torespond to that.
To be honest, I don't reallyknow.
I'm not quite sure how torespond to that.
To be honest, I don't reallyknow I'm not sure if I really
understand where that questioncomes from.
I mean, I think the view ofmasculinity and femininity I
(35:43):
said it right there it'scultivated in your family,
parents, um, and your, yourfriends and your community, I
think, influenced that a lot.
Um, as far as, like, city versuscountry, I don't think there's
any, you know, push either wayto like a good understanding or
(36:06):
a bad one of it.
Um, I, there was definitely ashift for me from, like, working
with my hands.
I've done construction andlandscaping and mechanic work,
repairing cars um, there was ashift, you know, coming to
sattler working on my computer.
Now I work on ears all day long, um, but I, I would like to
(36:29):
think that I haven't become lessof a man through the process.
Um, yeah, I, yeah, I, I dothink you know, sometimes it is
good we need to go groundourselves, like we've got a
little backyard out here, reallydigging the dirt, children and
plants and plants and flowers,and that's a good thing, um, get
(36:52):
your hands dirty sometimes, andtoo much technology and
man-made inventions can bedisorienting too.
So it's good to get out intonature and everything but yeah,
(37:18):
yeah, so I'm.
Zack Johnson (37:19):
Maybe we're approaching the around, the time
where people usually yeah,audience or the general people.
Is there anything that you'dyou'd like to leave?
Leave here another way, youknow.
Is there a pearl of wisdom thatthat you remind yourself often,
that you want to share with,with anyone listening, but yeah,
(37:42):
I, I think so.
Guest (37:44):
I started off um in the podcast talking a little bit
about what changed for me when Iwas 19.
And I really do think that thatmoment set the trajectory of my
life, what I did with thatreally painful moment in my life
and you know I've had a lot ofother painful moments since then
but I think everyone's going tocome across something that is
(38:11):
devastating in their life, andit's actually many times.
I think it's a time when Godwants to take in and clarify
your vision and what matters inlife and what matters for
eternity in life and whatmatters for eternity.
And having that really settlein your mind that you know I'm
(38:41):
not going to go after materialthings or worldly gain or
anything like that, but I'mgoing to totally devote my life
completely to doing the Father'swill and trying to be like
Jesus.
Having that settle before you goto college is a really good
thing, as people get afraid ofyoung people going to college
and they get disoriented andeverything, and I think you
(39:03):
could find that at college too.
It's not like you have to havethat beforehand, but I do think
it was really good for me tohave some of those experiences
behind me and thinking of goingto college or moving across the
world or anything like that.
That's a pretty poor thing tosettle.
(39:24):
There's nothing more excitingthan trying to build God's
kingdom, and there's nothingmore valuable than laying up
treasure in heaven, and so whynot have a very exciting life
and build the greatest values?
(39:45):
Cool, teach your kingdom workvalues cool.
Zack Johnson (39:55):
Teach your kingdom work.
Seek first the kingdom.
Yeah, amen.
And then are there any you know?
Just, I love listening topeople, what they, what they
read, what they follow.
Is there anything that you thatyou read or follow or listen to
, that you you like to talkabout or recommend to other
people?
Guest (40:07):
that doesn't have to be a yes yes, I read a book um
recently by john mark comer.
There was a new book that cameout and he talked about I think
it was called practicing the wayand how.
The title is I think that's theright title, highly recommend
(40:30):
that book and it was just areally he has a really great way
of talking about spiritualdisciplines and just about a
life of discipleship in generalin terms that, like you know,
people our age get and likeresonate with.
So that's a book that I wouldrecommend.
(40:51):
I was pretty influential I itgave me like this boost to like
um, get back to a great umschedule spiritual disciplines
again he has a.
Zack Johnson (41:04):
He has another book that got passed around in
our my circles called theruthless and elimination of
hurry, and it's I, yeah, Irecommend that book to to some
people.
Yeah, it's, it's a good book,he's a, he's a.
His, uh, his writing's reallyeasy to to consume and from my,
from my perspective, yeah, anyany other anything else I don't
(41:26):
think so, and great and yeah.
So again, if you want to keepup with Tim, I think pro synergy
just find that on the interwebs, you can look that up.
And yeah, tim, I'm praying thata lot more people that come
through Boston have the.
(41:46):
I just think the scope of yourvision has been really inspiring
to see you operationalize thatand and live it out, and I I
hope that we can figure out howto, how some students can show
up here to make similar moves asyou did.
I know, I know it's animpressive template from my,
(42:10):
from my impressive.
It's an inspirational templatefor for some people.
So I hope more people startthinking a lot more like you.
And thanks so much for takingthe time to be with us.
Uh, we don't yet have a podcasttitle, but someday we might.
It's more just the Sattlerpodcast right now where we talk
about people in our networks andwhat they're doing and what's
(42:30):
on on their minds.
So, thanks, thanks for beinghere and send, uh send my
regards to, to everyone in Indiathat I know your, your family
and the wines, and and beyond,will do.
Guest (42:43):
Yep, it's been great talking with you again yeah, you
too.
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