Get In Where You Fit In ~ Part One

Get in Where You Fit In is an episode that emphasizes the importance of enjoying who you are and what you’re doing to be your authentic self.  Andre and Anitra evaluate examples of unique people who refuse to conform to the norm, but have the confidence to embrace their individuality. This episode analyzes the need to be appreciated in our partnerships and relationships and how that appreciation can lead to positive self-awareness and personal identity. Dre unpacks how the position of the older sibling has inherent expectations that limit choice and can create frustration and Anitra speaks from the perspective of the younger sibling and the difference between “have to” versus “get to.”  

If you wonder why you didn’t feel like you belonged to your family, you will relate to this episode.  If you wondered how your family felt overwhelmed with family expectations, take a listen.  The Savage Siblings reflect on the difference between being needed and belonging to the family. Understanding these dynamics creates safe strategies to meet the needs of your family and partners in a healthy way.  This episode gives the listeners an opportunity to evaluate their relational value, which should create a healthy situation where you belong. 

Memorable quotes:

• Enjoy being the best of who you are. ~ Andre
• People can undergird you while the second wind is coming. ~ Anitra
• I can never have two bad days, because on the first day my tribe shows up and beats the drum. ~ Daniella
• God puts people in your life that are instrumental to help you get going. ~ Anitra
• We as human beings need to feel needed. ~ Anitra
• Belonging never ends, but being needed ends. ~ Andre
• The older sibling is the walking litmus test. ~ Andre
• The innate desire to be needed puts us in times of transition. ~ Anitra

Keywords:
#MentalHealth, #therapy,  #psychotherapy, #relationships, #psychology, #healing, #counseling, #ministry, #theology, #transformation, #change, #counselor, #therapist, #wholeness, #healthy, #health, #lifestyle, #mental, #emotions, #emotional, #spiritual, #minister, #christianliving, #christian, #wellness, #lifecoach, #forgiveness, #SavageSibling, #Savage, #Sibling,  #Brother, #Sister, #Family, #Parent, #S2Mediaworks, #SavageSiblingsPodcast, #Mytribe, #Beingauthentic, #Belongingvsneeding, #GetIn, #FitIn, #SeekingtoBelong, #Transitiontoindependence, #Passingonthemantle, #RelationalValue, #Diversesyndrome, #SelfAwareness, #Beyourself, #IntentionalBelonging,

Call to Action: 

• Post comments! Leave us a review!
• Share your thoughts on the need to be needed versus the belonging.  What’s it like to be the middle child?
• Any topics you want us to discuss?

Sound Editors: Kyle Davis and Dwayne McClendon
Music: Maxwell Music
Photography: K.Cross Photography

Brutally Honest. Relentlessly Transparent. Unapologetically Authentic.

Episode Transcript

Anitra (00:30):
Hey , hey, beautiful people. How are we doing? I am
Anitra in Lawson storyteller,producer, educator, content
creator, the best sister in theworld. Lord co co-sign that
co-sign that

Andre (00:43):
I , I will buy . Your credit ain't good enough for me
to co-sign with you, .

Anitra (00:49):
He is Dr . Andre Eugene Evans. I love throwing his
middle name out there so y'allcan Google him and find out all
of his history. Jesus ,

Andre (00:58):
Listen. No, there don't do that. They're actually, I've
Googled my name before, andthere's a guy who's been to
prison for five years with mysame person , last name, and
then there's a football player. There's a football player
with my first and last nametoo. So , yeah, don't be Google
.

Anitra (01:14):
See ? So that , so that middle name is good, then
. Good to know thatmiddle, that middle name is
saving you right now.

Andre (01:19):
. No , neither one of them names Saving me
. Anyways, what's goingon? Savage Siblings,

Anitra (01:25):
And he is my brother.
He is a father. He is a pastor.
Theologian, author, creative ,uh, the second best storyteller
in the family. Joking, kidding, gene .

Andre (01:36):
No, no, no. I agree with that one. I'm not a storyteller
at all. .

Anitra (01:41):
And we are the Savage siblings. This is the Savage
Sibling Podcast, where we arebrutally honest, relentlessly
transparent, andunapologetically authentic.
Thank you so much for joiningus for another episode, bro,
bro, checking in with you. Howyou doing?

Andre (01:57):
I'm doing well, doing well, and getting ready for
this episode. I , um, I have agood friend, well , she's part
of the choir at , uh, at thechurch, and she comped me and
some tickets for an upcoming ,uh, concert. And I don't know
why, but I looked at the, theflyer and I don't know why ,

(02:17):
uh, for those of you watchingin Dayton or listening rather,
in Dayton, Ohio. But itreminded me of a concert I went
to with mom several years ago,and this is when I was , uh,
married to Katina and Katinaand I went to this concert. It
was for Touch and the Touchups.
Oh , in Dayton . And ,and oh God, they were just
phenomenal. But, but the Flyerhad a guy, you know, had all

(02:38):
the band on there. And, and I'mlooking at one guy who looks
pretty prominent on the flyer ,and the assumption is , is that
he's the lead, but he's not.
And , and this is why itreminded me of touching the
touch-ups several yearsback, , when we went to
that concert , uh, the guy ,the guys came out, the band
came out, singers came out,touch , started singing, and I

(03:00):
mean, the Touchups are gettingit. They in old school fashion,
doing their thing. AndI'm gonna tell you, you know,
as you're watching the concert,which is great, and it's great
because they're local, it'sgreat because they sing . So
everybody in the crowd knowsthem . But I'm watching , and
like in between touch and oneof the touchups, all of a
sudden this like tambourinepokes through, and it's just

(03:23):
shaking , and then itdisappears, , and then
it like pokes through again,and it's just shaking and then
it disappears . And, and thistambourine is being held by
hands that are not touches andnot the touches up fans . And
then all of a sudden, likeparty, like the Red Sea , this
dude comes out with histambourine, gets to the front

(03:43):
of the stage. And I mean, whenI tell you he had a whole
church rhythm going, you know,that old lady in church bang,
that tambourine on like beatseven and eight at three corner
on her hips on her hand , manon her side , side everywhere,
mean she's hitting rhythms onthat tambourine. That just the
Holy Spirit be proud. That'swhy they, you know, that song
Make a Joyful Noise to theLord. It was pinned after her.

(04:07):
David was like, there's gonnabe this woman in Che .
This gonna be her . That's whatthis dude is like. I mean, when
I tell you he took over therest of the show, we wasn't
even listening to touchanymore. We wasn't even
listening to the Touchups. Wejust got excited every time
that little tambourine peekedthrough touch on a touchups

(04:27):
start shaking right ? And hiswhole body emerged, and he was
getting it. And I remembersaying in that moment, look,
whatever you do, get in whereyou fit in and do it well. And
that's really what he did. Heplayed that tambourine like
nobody's business . And, and , and so that , that made
me laugh. And I felt like, man,God, you came up with the right

(04:48):
just memory for this episode .
Really, it doesn't matter whatyou're doing. Just, you know,
whatever you do, , Idon't care if you a tambourine
player, get in where you fit inand play that bad boy like
nobody's business. I , I thinkI laughed on that for a few
days. But , and , and , andwhat it really ended up doing

(05:08):
for me the rest of the week isjust like, can you just enjoy
what you're good at doingeverywhere you go? Yeah . Do
you ? Right? Just enjoywhat you do wherever you go. Do
you be the best? You don't,don't be trying to mimic mimic
anyone else. Don't be, I'veheard people say, oh , Andre,
you go be the next. And I , andI always tell I ain't gonna be
the next anybody. I'm gonna bethe first best Dre. Just do .

(05:33):
That's so good. B , just have agreat time. I'll tell you , I
was, I'm in the car, I'm doingmy best car driver's seat moves
in the car. I don't careanybody Right ? looking
. I'm just doing me. I just,man , I don't know his name.
But , uh, for those of youlistening to Dayton , if, you
know, touching the touch up , Ineed you to get this, this
episode. You know , they doknow, right ? I need you to get

(05:53):
this episode to the tambourinedude with touching the touch up
. Let him know he has inspiredme out . Me , he has inspired
me. So, but yeah, I've been,I've been rocking with that
energy all week long. I thoughtabout it just everywhere I go ,
just enjoy my completeauthentic self. Don't care what
anybody think , I'm just gonnado . That's right .

Anitra (06:15):
That's

Andre (06:15):
Right . To me. And, and , and it , and it's a , you
know, that stuff like that isinfection. It's absolutely
attractive. Yes . And , and ,and , and it just changes the
atmosphere. You just realizewho you're in any atmosphere
where you go when you just ,just do you and enjoy being the
best parts of you . So yeah.
That, that's, that, that iswhat I've been , uh, vibing off

(06:38):
of all week. That's what myenergy is being thanks to Touch
and the touchups tambourineplaying . So, but that's me.
What about you? What's beengoing on with you?

Anitra (06:46):
You know , your story reminds me, and I guys are
gonna , they're gonna comethrough the, the speakers and
get me on this. But I rememberwhen I went to see Morrisey in
the time, and isn't, isn't thegentleman's name Jerome?
Jerome? Is that right?

Andre (06:57):
Jerome?

Anitra (06:58):
That's how your story reminded. 'cause the first time
I saw them live, I wasmesmerized at just how Yes .
Energetic Yes . And dope. Hisenergy was, and of course, you
can't go wrong with Morrisey inthe time , like Right . It's ,
it was a dope show, but I waslike, Jerome ain't nothing like
he's,

Andre (07:13):
He not play with

Anitra (07:14):
A critical Yes .
Integral, amazing part of thisentire, you know, ensemble and
experience. And so that's whatI kept thinking. That's how I
felt about him. And, and heknew it too. He was on the
stage like, yeah, I'm here trip.

Andre (07:27):
I don't sing, I don't play the instrument, but this
is what I do. , get

Anitra (07:31):
That mirror. Bring it out. Like , I was like , go
ahead Jerome,

Andre (07:34):
Man . Shout , shout out to all the Jerome, the
tambourine players, the Macsfor every James Brown. Right ?
What is it? Bentley F's wordsfor all that . That's what I
was

Anitra (07:44):
Thinking for . Yeah .
People

Andre (07:46):
Shout out for all to all those dude , shout out to
Bishop Don Juan for the SnoopDoggs out there. There you go.
, shout out to allthese players. I mean, because
they really make the world goround. They're

Anitra (07:57):
Necessary serious .
They really ,

Andre (07:58):
The world. They're so necessary. And if that's you,
man, shout out to you . Like ,God , God bless you . Hold that
mirror . I love it . Play thattambourine. I love it . Open
that umbrella. Put on the cape. Do what you gotta do . Put
the cape on, put the tape on.
God bless you people. God blessy'all. I

Anitra (08:15):
Love it. That's, that's truly what the , what your
story reminded me of. And itwas one of the best parts of
that concert. I was so glad Igot a chance to see them. But,
but yeah, no, I'm doing reallywell. This, this week for me
has been the week of likesecond win . Oh,

Andre (08:29):
Dang . Um,

Anitra (08:29):
And I think that's actually, you know, connects
beautifully to, to the storieswe just presented, that, you
know, having those people inyour corner that, you know,
when you're trying to catchyour breath and get that second
win , they're usually the onesthat really help fan that
along, you know? Yeah. Yeah .
And so I know just throughoutthis week, it's, it's just been
very much of when I feel like Ican't give another inch and I'm

(08:50):
just like, Ugh , I really amtired, or I really wanna break,
or just wanna let this go .
Yeah . You know, God has beenso good at just saying, I got
you. And then I , he just, youknow, graces me with a , a
flood of a second wind to justkeep going , uh, further. And I
do feel like absolutely peoplearound you can help undergird
you, you know, while thatsecond wind is building up

(09:11):
mm-hmm . . Andso, yeah. So I've been so
grateful for that, that I couldtake that breath, take that
beat, and know that a secondwind , God's gonna bless me
with that. People who love me,who around me Amen. Are gonna
bless me with that second wind. And so I just soar forward .
You soar on, it's , it's onceit comes . So definitely
grateful.

Andre (09:27):
Yeah. It's so, I love that, you know, Daniela, all my
oldest daughter always mm-hmm .
Says , um, I can never have twobad days because on my first
bad day, my tribe, meaning herfamily, my tribe shows up and
beats the drum and I get backup like I , she said that not
too long ago . That's

Anitra (09:46):
Good . It

Andre (09:46):
Really is . And it so important to have those folk
around you , um mm-hmm .
and , and , andrealize how valuable they're in
that type of role in your life.
And , um mm-hmm . , it's huge. It's huge. Yeah.
When she said that, she said, I, I don't get dad, I don't get
two bad days in a row, becausewhen I tell you about my first
bad day and you get on the linetelling everybody to pray for

(10:08):
me, I feel my tribe . That'sit. Beating the drum, and I
gotta get up and start going.
And so, yeah. Yeah, man, those,those , that's so good. God
puts those people in your lifeand they're so instrumental,
they really, so valuable.
Mm-hmm . Uh , everybody hasvalue that that's in your
tribe. Everybody has value .
That's, you know , that you're, that helps you , you know ,

(10:29):
just kind of get your secondwin and keep going. Mm-hmm .
, so , yeah .
Mm-hmm . .
Absolutely . I feel that one .

Anitra (10:34):
I love it. I love it.
Let's jump into this , uh,sound off segment. Sound

Speaker 3 (10:39):
Off segment . Sound

Anitra (10:41):
Off . I'm gonna , um, go ahead and dig in here real
quick. Okay . Because I was,when I was thinking about this
episode, it came from aconversation that I was having
with a , a few of my friends,really based on some creative
endeavors that we're workingon. Uh , but it , it kind of
boiled down to this notion of,or this idea of that there's a
, a fundamental need in everyhuman experience to be needed,

(11:06):
right? Like, that it's animportant and vital part of the
life journey that we as humanbeings need to feel needed. And
I think that word feel iscritical, which will definitely
kind of unpack it a little bitlater. But I mean, if you think
about romantic relationships,right? There's a need to feel
needed on both sides When youthink about parents to children

(11:28):
and children's to parents likethat experience, certainly
employers to employees, right?

Andre (11:34):
Absolutely. Ly

Anitra (11:35):
Absolutely . There's need , there's a give and take
between those dynamics. I thinkreally all manners of
partnerships and friendships atthe core . There's always that
kind of need , uh, to feelneeded. And so, you know, we
titled this episode, get InWhere You Fit In , uh, because
we wanna spend some time todayunpacking where that comes
from, this need to feel neededand how you can mm-hmm .

(11:56):
kind of navigatethat. But , um, I totally
wholeheartedly agree with thisidea that there is a , a
fulfillment, right, right. Thatwe get that comes from wanting
to be significant. Right?
Right. Uh, even if it's just toone person, right. And then,
you know, in feeling thatdesire to be significant to
just one person or several,then obviously we wanna feel

(12:16):
appreciated, feel valued , uh,for what it is that we bring.
And so we always start thesibling sound off segment , uh,
from our perspective assiblings. And so, yeah . Yeah .
You know, I really can onlytruly speak from, you know, the
baby, from the youngestsibling. Sure . And I certainly
wanna kick it to you, bro, bro,to unpack the oldest
perspective. But I'm gonna justbe frank, you guys, I

(12:39):
absolutely never felt that I I , that I was needed in
my family . And lemmebe clear, I was very happy
about that. Right? I alwaysrecognized as the baby and the
baby girl in our four , youknow, four person home that I
was the needy one. And yes,some people may call that

(13:00):
spoiled . Some peoplemay call that , uh, I don't
know . We'll get to, you know,the notions of codependency and
things like that. But I wasactually happy. Like you think
about it, we all had to dochores, right? Well, maybe dad
didn't, but me and you and momdid chores growing up. Yeah .
Yeah. But I never once thought,Hmm , if I don't do these
dishes, oh, the family willfall apart. Oh , look , this ,

(13:24):
if I don't do this , you know ,take out the track . If I don't
do these things right , uh,everything is going to fall
into calamity. No, I understoodthat. I, and I'm gonna really
kind of emphasize this for the,for the youngest sibling, it's
a , it's a, I get to ratherthan have to Sure. Right. I get
to do this rather than have to,and that was always really
special to me because it reallystarted to shape my mindset

(13:46):
good and bad, . Right ,right . Which we'll talk about.
But I think, and I did someresearch on younger siblings in
terms of how we contribute tofamilies and, and how we feel
about where we're needed.
Research shows that theyoungest baby siblings often
sought out fun experiences morethan maybe the older or the
middle child. Sure , sure .
Because we understood we werethe needy ones. Mm-hmm.

(14:08):
, uh, weunderstood that when we came
into, you know, this life, ourmindset was not about, oh, they
need me. It was like, no,you've already laid out this
land and everything that'shere. You've already created a
brand for the family, and I getto partake in all of it. Right,
right, right. So my mindset as a younger sibling
was, what's mine is mine, andwhat's yours is mine. Yeah .

(14:30):
Because we've already laid ,laid out . That's exactly how I
felt. Right. , I wasnever once concerned about my
needs being met. Right . Itdidn't even exist. They were
always met. I didn't questionit. And obviously we're talking
about being blessed to beraised in a healthy home. Not
perfect, obviously, but healthywhere things were in place. But
so when I was unpacking myperspective as a younger

(14:51):
sibling in terms of the need tofeel needed, that dre that
didn't even hit me Right. UntilI was an adult. Right . Like,
it didn't become a reality forme until I was out of the
house. Right. Which is animportant thing to, to start to
learn. And obviously yourparents will, will guide you.
They try to make sure you'renot spoiled. Try to help you
learn maturity and we'll ,we'll get into that. But it was

(15:11):
very much my experience of Iget to contribute. I don't have
to. Right. It was very much myexperience that everything that
my family has is mine. And Iactually can even lean into
what's mine is mine. And morethan likely, because I'm the
baby, because I'm the youngest,no one's gonna say, oh no, you
, you know, you have to sharethat per se, or you have to

(15:31):
contribute, because if youdon't, the family's gonna fall
apart. And so, when I thinkabout this question is , you
know, as siblings, do weunderstand that we're needed?
And I wanna hear from ourlisteners. For me, as the
youngest, no, I did notunderstand or ever feel
like I was needed for thestrength of the family until I
became an adult, or until Imoved out of the household and

(15:53):
started learning, you know,more of the, the nuances of
life. And so I just didn't feelit. I didn't feel it. I was
protected. I was spoiled. I didnever , I never felt like I
needed to, you know ,contribute by, by necessity. It
was more about, you're part ofit, you're the baby, we're
gonna undergird you. And so Ilove that space and it

(16:13):
definitely , uh, put me into anenvironment of independence
that I'll definitely unpackmore, but I wanna kick it to
you , uh, just to see yourthoughts on just the subject
for today from the siblingperspective. Certainly you as
an older brother, you know,what are your thoughts as we
dig into this?

Andre (16:28):
I'm over here shaking my head and and , and
angst . The audacity . Right . Of every , of
everything you just said, the ,the audacity of ,

Anitra (16:42):
And listen, and younger siblings let us know if that
was your experience. 'cause I,I think it was for a lot

Andre (16:47):
Of this . No ,

Anitra (16:47):
It's ,

Andre (16:47):
But I wanna hear back .
No , go ahead, bro . Bro ,it's, it's the experience of
every younger sibling. Andthat's, and that's .
This is a PG show . Okay .
That's , that's bull Man . I'mtell you . No , that's , that's
, and I know that's how youfelt. Uh mm-hmm .
. I'm not, not, I didn't , Ididn't know it in real time.
Sure. But you know, if I, I'velaid out the groundwork. So all

(17:10):
you gotta do is just simplypartake in the fruit of all the
labor I had to have. And donot, not only because I was
there before you, but becausemm-hmm . , I was
a freaking trial run. Mom anddad didn't understand how to,
what, what, what children wereneeded for. And they also
didn't know , understand how tomake children feel needed in a
healthy way. So I'm the trialrun. So, so do I understand

(17:35):
what you know, that I needed?
Sure. But I understand itthrough being rejected first. I
understand it through beingrejected on so many levels.
Like I understand it throughlike, well, why I gotta do all
this? How come Nikki can't doit? Rejection? Nope . Because I
said, so she's the baby . She'sdelicate. Well , why does she
always have to come with me?

(17:55):
Why can't I go be independentby myself? Rejected. Like, I,
so I understand being neededthrough being rejected of the
things I actually wanted Yeah .
To do in life. I , and , and ,and , and , and see for you.
Yeah. You know, I , I'm hearinghow you ingested that on a
mental level. And I'm shakingmy head because what I ingested

(18:16):
was social pain. Andre, whyyour sister always gotta come
with us. Social pain. Andre,why you can't come out? Why you
gotta babysit your sister?
Social pain ? Like , I dunno ,like, I'd like No, no, I'm
needed wrong. Like, this isn'twhat I wanna be needed for
, you were needy. Iwas. And all of it was wrong.

(18:39):
All of it was wrong. There's nopart of this that was this , it
runs a gamut. This we'retalking about emotional pain
that went psychological,emotional damage and physical.
Right . Emotional damage.
Damage. Right. ,because No, no . Okay. You ,
you processed it different.
Look at how you processed it .
Like everything was laid outfor you. It was great. It was

(19:01):
you, were you , I said, what'smine is mine. What you want is
mine. That's exactly how I wastreated. Not just from you, but
from even a parentalstandpoint. Yeah . It was No,
Andre, you gotta share that.
That ain't just for you. Butshe didn't put in on this. Like
, she didn't do work on this .
I could be out with my boys.
Y'all made me be here . Y'alljust , no , no . You know ,

(19:27):
it's , it's crazy because, youknow, I'm looking at this and
I'm saying to myself, well ,wait a minute, , I did,
I , I laid this beautiful pathand I didn't mean to lay it. I
was forced to lay it. Right .
Just living late . Right .
laid this beautifulpath. And, and what I came out

(19:48):
with is, Andre, we need you todo this. So I've got a
definition of being neededthat's clearly different from
your definition of being needed. It's huge . And , and it also
mm-hmm . , we'll, I'll unpack this in a second.
Um, what I had to learn is howto shift from being needed to
saying, I belong , which is twodifferent things. Ooh . Wow.

(20:12):
That's good. You walked insaying, I belong . Mm-hmm.
, you didn't haveto go through the needed and,
and see. And if I can just givea difference mm-hmm .
, when peopledon't understand needed versus
being, feeling belong when youfeel, when you feel needed, the

(20:32):
flip side of that is when youdon't feel like you're getting
your needs met . Mm-hmm .
, it can bedetrimental. Mm-hmm .
mm-hmm .
. So that's whyyou're able to say, no , I had
a beautiful life . They weren'tperfect , but I had everything
I needed because I had to gothrough what the, the process
of understanding of Yeah. Uh, Iknow what it feels like to be

(20:54):
needed now. I just wannabelong. I don't wanna feel
needed because then if I don'tget my needs met, met, yeah.
Uhhuh , then I become, I thinkit's like a psychologists call
it wallflower syndrome. What ,what I mean is, is Yeah . Is is
now I'm that person at thedance that's begging for

(21:16):
somebody to ask him to dance.
And nobody does. So I juststand on the wallflower, don't
feel needed. I , I become thelast person picked in the
sports, in the basketball atthe blacktop. And, and , and
that's what I'm known for. Drealways picked last. Nobody
really wants him . Right .
Right . So, so, so,but, but, but when you shift
and you're able , and again,we'll unpack this later, but

(21:37):
when you shift mm-hmm . Thenyou're saying to yourself,
okay, no, no, no, I'm gonna getin. Where I fit in when I'm,
when I get to the point ofunderstanding is, is no, I
wasn't needed. I belong . AndI, and , and Yeah . And it's
the way I belonged that allowedme to say, this feels good to
be here now. This, this feelsgood to be, so I didn't
experience what you felt comingup mm-hmm. until

(22:01):
an adult. Right. And then I hadto be able to say, okay, I have
all these tangible , uh,transient skills and, and ethic
that I learned in the home, butI don't know why. But now that
I'm out here in the real worldby myself, I remember when,
when Kaylin and I first movedall the way across the world to
Tallahassee to go to FloridaState mm-hmm . ,

(22:24):
we belonged . We felt like webelonged for the first time
because it wasn't a choreanywhere anymore. It was Right
. No, no. This is just kind ofwho we are . Get to , you know.
Right . Get to choose . We havethe privilege of running our
apartment any the way we wannarun it, and not just the way we
wanna run it. Kaylin was goodat this. I was good at that.

(22:46):
Mm-hmm . . Mm-hmm. . And so we
felt like we belonged in theapartment together. Um, ver
versus feeling like I'm, I'mneeded. Because , you know,
when you feel like you'reneeded or if you understand
being needed, well, whathappens when they don't no
longer need you? Mm-hmm.
, teach , teach ,teach them . But when you feel
like you belong, that doesn'tend. Mm-hmm . ,

(23:07):
that doesn't end at all. Um ,what what might end is the
duties of being of you belong.
But, but , uh, the , thefeeling of belonging never
ends. And so that's what I'mhearing you talk about it. Yeah
. That , that was where I wasat . That's what I was
feeling in . And , and because, 'cause think of it, think of,
think of it as , so for theolder sibling mm-hmm .

(23:29):
, we're not justneeded. We're needed, but we're
fighting for independence aswell . Yes . That's it . That's
right . Word . So , so whileYeah . Mom is saying , I need
you to do this , I need you todo that . I don't ever , I
don't reach the needy , likethe spoiled. Right . I , like,
I never felt that I didn'treach the needy what I was, I

(23:50):
need you to do that , need that. And I'm saying, but I'm
trying to get out this housebecause I'm trying to be
independent . Yeah. And, and as long as I'm in this
place, I can't meet milestones.
Like there's, there's nothingmore of a milestone for me to
be able to come back to thehome and say to Nikki , yeah,
we was out balling and we didthis, this , this independence

(24:12):
of parenthood mm-hmm .
mm-hmm .
, um, that , thatI can't reach as long as I am
needed versus if I were theyounger sibling and I'm needy.
Mm-hmm . whatfeels like spoiled, then
, then I don't, I don'tfeel the need to break away an
independence because I feellike I'm in this path where I
belong. So I think there's ,there's so many different ,

(24:35):
there's so many differentangles to that being the older
sibling and the younger saying,and what I'm most interested in
mm-hmm . For those of youlistening is what do you ,
what, what do you feel ifyou're the middle child?

Anitra (24:46):
That's exactly what I had . Yes.

Andre (24:48):
Yes . What , what , what is that? Because that, that
experience mm-hmm .
, I actually, youknow, I actually don't, I don't
dunno . You

Anitra (24:53):
Don't , yeah. We don't know it . Yeah . I don't know .

Andre (24:54):
I was too busy trying to wiggle my way out of being
needed. I was too busy tryingto get through just kind of
again, that, that naturaldevelopment struggle as an
adolescence. Mm-hmm .
where , you know,the family is depending on me,
but I'm trying to get myindependence and, and, and I'm
, I'm trying to rely on friendsmore than I am on my parents.
And, and , but there's a , butthere's also a detriment to

(25:16):
that as well. Uh , now that Ithink about it, because that
detriment is, is I know what ,well , mom and dad, well, I'm
the trial run as the child.
Right? Right . They say , well,first time first, right. So I
know you're mm-hmm .
, you're beingpulled by your friend , but I
still need to give you guidanceeven outside this house. So
even that mm-hmm .
. So part of thefeeling needed versus feeling

(25:39):
belong was , was mom and dadsaying, I'm not ready to just
release you carte blanche toyour friends because they can't
guide you. Right . They'restill trying to get their
independence too. Whereas whenyou come along and say , okay,
well we screwed up this withAndre. We ain't gonna do this
. Like , we , we messedup with this way with re
this with Nicki . Youknow, they're looking at all

(26:00):
the thing I'm the , I'm , I'mthe walking litmus test, and
I'm just the three of y'allhuddling on the side. Like Yeah
. You see the way he walked .
That's , we can't let Nick walkthat way. You , you gotta
change that . What he look Yeah. We can't let it , you know,
so it's, it's , it , it reallyis this , uh, so I'm not just
needed in what I do, I'm neededso that mom and dad can learn

(26:21):
how to do better with you. Andthat sucked too . That
absolutely sucked .

Anitra (26:25):
And I imagine most older children probably share
that sentiment to some extenttoo. So .

Andre (26:32):
Yeah . Heck yeah. I

Anitra (26:33):
Had , so I had the same, the same notes in terms
of that question for middlechildren. And please, we do, we
definitely want you guys to, tolet us know, 'cause we're take
, taking this from ourperspective and our experience,
but curious if you're a middlechild, because you think about
the older child , uh, oftendirectly or indirectly takes on
responsibility for alsomodeling, you know, the brand

(26:53):
of the family, whether you wantto or not to your younger
siblings. And so mm-hmm .
Sometimes there's perfectionismthat sits , that sets in
because you're, you know,you're trying to do what your
parents said, trying to, youknow, help the younger child,
you know, rear differently. Andyou get , kind of get forced
into that position. Um, andother times, like you said,
you're trying to find ways to,to get the responsibility outta

(27:14):
the way so you can move on toyour own independence. Hmm .
And certainly for the youngestchild, that babysitting mindset
or, you know, kind of coddlingor everything is there. But I
agree that middle child mightfeel very much lost in
translation. Yeah. Absolutely.
Feel like they can't figure outthe, you know, how to navigate
the family dynamics , uh,because they don't necessarily
take on the responsibility ofthe older children. And

(27:35):
obviously they're not gettingthe attention of the babying,
per se, of the youngest. And soI definitely would like to, to
hear from that. But I think thething that you, you said that
really struck me, because we'lltalk about this as we get to
the savage segment, is thisnotion of , uh, transition in
it mm-hmm . Mm-hmm.
. Yeah . So wherefor you it was like you said ,
um, seeking to belong as yougot out into your freedom and

(27:58):
adulthood. Right. Um, uh, forme, it, I had to learn the role
of, you know, needing to beneeded as I got into adulthood.
Yeah . So then I startednavigating that. And I think
for you, you started protectingindependence, which I was
absolutely doing that early on.
Right. Uh , because of mystatus. And so yes, it feels
like that, you know, the, theinnate, you know, desire , uh,

(28:22):
to , to need to be, to feelneeded , uh, puts us in
transitions, puts us in spacesthroughout life where we kind
of toggle between or pingingpong between, or just kind of
flow between that based onwhere we are in our life. And I
think, I think that's kind ofwhy it's so important , uh, to
recognize it. Yeah . To spendtime thinking about it because
of different seasons. You'regonna have to contend with it.

(28:44):
I was thinking about ourgrandfather mm-hmm .
, um, and thisgoes, you know, beyond the
dynamics of siblings, but stillspeaks to how family deals with
the need to feel needed , um,in different, you know, just
different iterations in life.
And I remember when he was ,um, close to, to dying. Oh yeah
. You know, he had been sick afew times , uh, in and out, and

(29:04):
we've talked about ourgrandfather a lot on the
podcast and probably willcontinue to do so. 'cause he
was just such a dope humanbeing. Absolutely. Was . Uh ,
but so he took pride. Likegrandpa loved being the
provider. He did the protector.
He absolutely , you know,giving of identity. And I mean,
and you could speak to thistoo, bro, bro , you know,
having a wife and , and adaughter. He, you know, he lost

(29:26):
his, his son at a young age.
And , uh, I think that oneother little girl, one other
mm-hmm. , uh,passed away. But, so, you know,
I imagine as a man that's evenmore heightened when you have a
wife and a daughter. Like twobeautiful Sure thing . Sure .
Girls , women to take care of.
And so when mom was talking tome about the last couple of
months , you know, let's sayweeks, months in his life,

(29:48):
'cause he was, you know, hetook pride in, you know,
obviously working, taking careof home, providing the house,
et cetera. And then when it gotto where he retired, you know,
I watched Grandpa take pride inwashing clothes. Mm-hmm.
cooking the mealsand , you know, fixing
things around the house. Andthen even when it got to where
he was on a walker and thingslike that, he still took pride
in, you know, making the mealsand pushing it on his walker to

(30:08):
my grandma. Yeah . .
Yeah . And setting it next toher. And that might be the two
things he did all day, but hewould still do it. Which speaks
to , um, I definitely thinkthere's seasons of our life
where not only do we value theneed to, to be needed, but it
really becomes a key part ofour identity. Yeah, absolutely.
Because I think about it withour mom, I think we could all
probably agree grandparentsvery much , uh, get into that

(30:31):
space where they're like, I Ilove being here to support my
children, my grandchildren, mygreat grands . I , as matter of
fact, I heard , uh, KareemAbdu, Abdul-Jabbar talking
about the last, you know,several years of his life, how
much he's enjoyed being aroundhis grandkids and great
grandkids. Yeah . I read that.
I read that. And he's like, youneed to tell me I can lay down
and play Legos with them ratherthan go do a sports interview.

(30:52):
Like , right . Like, I'm good.
Like this season of my life, I, I thank my career, my
basketball career. I thank allthose beautiful things, but now
I can just play Legos. Like,let's go. Right. That's a need
to feel needed, right? Yeah.
Yeah. And so I think we startto learn in different seasons
why it's so important torecognize it , uh, because it
will fulfill you. And so, youknow, with Grandpa Dangerfield,
that very much was that seasonof his life. And so when it

(31:15):
came down to the point to wherehe got sick and had been
hospitalized, and at theinitial mindset, the way mom
described it was, at first theywere kind of like, okay, what
do we need to do medically sowe can just get him home?
Mm-hmm . . Andso, you know , they're figuring
out medication, differentoptions. And so she described
those days. She would go to thehospital every day . Mom went

(31:36):
to see , to see grandpa, andthey would play Chinese
checkers and cards. Yeah . Yeah. It was still fairly positive.
'cause the, the focus was, youknow, what do we need to do to
get you back home? Theunfortunate side of that is
once they realized there wasnothing medically that could be
done, and I , you know, grandpawas like, I think 92, 93 when
he passed away, so , you know,good years mm-hmm .
. And theyrealized , okay, no , this

(31:57):
season of his life is, iscoming to an end. Mom told me
the shift in his focus, uhhuh ,which, which Dre speaks to
exactly what we're talkingabout in this podcast. He
immediately understood. And Imean, she said he cried and she
remembers the , the momentwhere he just kind of went into
prayer with God. And I , Itotally believe they had their

(32:18):
conversation where God said,son, you've run your race. It's
time for you to come on home.
Mm-hmm . And gave him, youknow, the opportunity to have ,
uh, the last couple of, youknow, day , maybe weeks or so,
to really pour into our mom tohelp her understand now that
it's time for me to go on andmy journey has ended where, you

(32:39):
know, my ability to take careof the needs is now gonna
transfer to you because you'regonna have to step in and take
care of your mother. Mom saidthat he spent like an entire
afternoon, literally just goingthrough, creating like a
checklist. And when I tell youit was a checklist of emotional
needs for grandma and emotionalneeds for her and financial

(33:01):
needs and physical needs Yeah.
And running it down because hehad been that person. Yes . Yes
. That understood. I have to bethe need to be, I have to be
okay, you know, being neededfor my daughter, who's a grown
woman who can take care ofherself, but I'm still there .
Right . And for my wife. And soshe said it got serious, and it
was really hard, obviously, to,to kind of go through that with

(33:21):
your dad and , and see that,you know, his, his life is
coming to , uh, closure. Andshe said that Dre, after he had
that conversation with her,that then he, he just got
quiet. And she said he reallynever talked much more after
that, even though I think helived for another week or two.
Yeah. Um, but he understood hewas passing the mantle on, he

(33:42):
was passing the torch on. And Ithink probably part of it too
is it's probably very difficultwhen you've been used to being
that person that understandsthat the need to be needed, and
you realize you can no longerbe that. 'cause he wasn't able
to walk anymore, or even on awalker. He wasn't able to get
outta the bed. And , um, andthen she, she even described it
as a very , uh, I don't know ifthe right word is stoic, but

(34:04):
just a strength that camethrough him that after he had
that, that moment with God andcried, she said he never cried
again. That he was rested .
Mm-hmm . He was at peace after. Yeah . And he said to her,
and she said, when she cameinto the hospital that day,
when he really kind of pouredinto her all of the things ,
uh, she said she'd never seenhim more serious because she
came in with , with the UNOcards and the Chinese checkers.

(34:26):
It was like , you ready to takethis whooping? He was like,
Nope, we got , we got business.
That's

Andre (34:30):
What we're doing right

Anitra (34:30):
Now . We got business .
Yep .

Andre (34:31):
We got family

Anitra (34:32):
Business. Um, and I believe that it was very
fulfilling for him to be, youknow, the an , you know, to be
able to, to step in and be whatthey needed. And so I feel like
we all get an experience withthat, sometimes more than once
throughout our life journey.
And so just reallyunderstanding how you feel
about the need to be needed andmaking sure it's healthy, but

(34:53):
then also recognizing when youneed help. I think that's what
we're gonna unpack from there.
But I'll kick it back to youbefore we get to the
sponsorship. Well,

Andre (34:59):
No, I, I , I think through that story, you know,
you, you, everyone can get abetter understanding of , uh,
or at least a betterconsideration if they're needed
when you just kind of thinkabout , uh, those kind of
important people in your life,whether they're family mm-hmm .
or friends mm-hmm. , uh,
significant other members ofyour community, even your job.

(35:23):
And as you kind of thinkingabout them kind of reflecting
on how much they actually kindof care about you , um, how
much, how much they internalizeyour interests , like the
things that you're interestedin in life , um, things like
how much they , uh, wouldsacrifice for you and emotional

(35:44):
sacrifice. Mm-hmm . Mental, notjust financial or physical, but
just, you know, all thesedifferent layers of , of
sacrifice, how much theyrespect you, how much they
admire you. You know , when you, when you're feeling all of
that, and you see that valuesense, that value in all of
those areas, then the thingabout being needed is now
showing you just this positivepsychological , uh, life

(36:07):
existence wellbeing. Right?
Mm-hmm. . So , sothis is the good , you know ,
feeling needed is not a , youknow, doesn't always have to be
a bad thing. I think sometimespeople feel like when they,
when they're always needed in acertain way, it's a bad thing.
But sometimes feeling needed isa good thing. So don't , it's a
good thing. We don't , we don'twanna misconstrue, conflate, we

(36:28):
don't wanna mm-hmm .
confuse whatyou're being requested of as
they're just trying to walkover you or drain you. Yeah .
Sometimes, yeah . It's comingfrom a space that's deeper than
what you're seeing or whatyou're hearing or what you're
feeling. It's coming from a , aplace that's actually showing,
no, there's an actualpsychological wellbeing of this

(36:51):
person's need for you. Butagain, the flip side of that
is, if you did that samereflection and you feel
slightly depressed, or you feelslightly disconnected,
, or you feeling , you know,the opposite of , of good, then
chances are your , yourrelational value, whether it's

(37:12):
your expectations, your needsthat are being unmet, what
you're feeling in terms of whatyou deserve , uh, is low. And,
and I , and , and , and the ,the idea there is to have a
high relational value, becausethe higher my relational value,
the more healthy the need is.
In fact, the higher therelational value, the more you

(37:33):
actually translate from feelingneeded to feeling like you
belong. And that's ultimatelywhere you wanna get to , is
feeling like you belong, notjust needed . Needed is
probably a, a great pivotpoint, because either you're
either rejected, needed, orwhich we're looking for in
relationships is a high enoughrelational value that you feel
like you belong here. Uh , whatI , yes, people need what I

(37:55):
bring to the table, but theoverarching feeling is, but I
belong and that's why I'mneeded. And then that's
ultimately kind of what we, wewanna , we wanna go to. So
yeah, that story about , um,grandpa, it it , if you notice
, it even shifted mom frombeing needed to belong. Yes .
Right. Because when he says,I'm passing the torch to you.

(38:17):
Mm-hmm . Why , why didn't Ipass it to hospice? Why didn't
I pass it to a nursing home?
Mm-hmm . ,because grandma doesn't belong
there. Ooh . Teach program .
And you don't belong there as avisitor teach program , right ?
No . We're putting two peopletogether , because they'll be
honest with you. Okay . Uh ,you, I remember dad saying, we

(38:38):
put this in a podcast lastseason. I remember dad saying
to you, I believe after mom anddad had separated, that mom had
to go back to date because sheneeds to be with family .
Whereas dad is like, now I'mgonna stay here in the dub K
because I don't need none ofy'all . Like , I belong

(39:01):
by myself, . So , youknow what I mean? And that's
okay, because he knows where hebelongs . Because I'm like ,
dad, I , I'm like , dad , Isaid , I , I can , I can live
in San Diego by myself. Uh, youknow, I don't, I don't have to
be with fa I , I , you know, I,I definitely belong you value.

Anitra (39:20):
Sure. Yeah .

Andre (39:21):
I value family. Yeah .
Yeah . I belong as my mama'sson, my dad's son, my sister's
brother . Mm-hmm . I belongthere, but I don't need to be
in their physical space. And ,and see that's, that's the
shift when you have a healthysituation where you're needed
mm-hmm . ahealthy one . Belonging is that

(39:42):
area where you get in , whereyou fit in is that area where
you're not getting in, whereyou fit in , you're forced to
be there . And we don't wannafeel that way. We definitely
don't wanna feel that way. So,yeah. That's , uh, I know we're
getting ready to go into thesponsorship. Uh, uh, shout ,
shout out . But yeah, I lovethat story about grandpa , um,
yeah . Shifting and , andsaying, now you know, Lois,

(40:03):
because he didn't call it Delo.
Lois. You're right . You ,you're , you're , you're,
you're no longer needed. Youbelong right now. You
Absolutely. That's so good .
And , and what's crazy, Nikki ,I know we gotta do sponsor, but
what's crazy, Nikki , is Iheard a shift in mom's
conversation about being whole

Anitra (40:22):
Hundred percent right?
Yep .

Andre (40:23):
Before, before this moment in , in mom's life
mm-hmm . , Idefinitely felt like mom was a
caretaker. Like I moved backhome to be a caretaker. Yeah .

Anitra (40:38):
Yes ,

Andre (40:38):
Yes . But after this moment, I heard the words of a
daughter. And I think that's sodifferent. So different. And,
and that's such a different ,and , and that's the thing,
when mom was making hertransition from Dayton to la
prior to that transition, Nikki, you , we were, we were
talking as caretakers,

Anitra (40:58):
Caretakers, percent .
But after

Andre (41:00):
We had that conversation with mom at the park mm-hmm .
mm-hmm . We weretalking as, as her children.
And that's such a differentstance. Agreed. Agreed . That's
such a different stance. One isneeded. The other is, no , ma ,
you belong here with Nicki .
With Nikki , not with Andre,but you belong here. See how he
does

Anitra (41:20):
Me in this

Andre (41:21):
Region

Anitra (41:22):
Temporarily. , I keep saying I'm gonna drop
her out . . Speaking ofbelonging , uh, let's shout out
our sponsor for this episode .
None other than S twoMediaWorks, a media production
company co-founded my , by mybrother and I, and our focus is
we're creating content toeducate, empower, inspire, and

(41:43):
encourage positive living andinfluence through original
narratives. We love tellingstories. We love sharing our
journey. We love sharing ourscars. Right? Like it's all
part of growth, and it helpsus, and hopefully it's helping
you . Our mission at S twoMedia Works is to provide
transformational education,hopefully resources that are
gonna promote healthy andproductive living through

(42:05):
creative storytelling. And ,um, we're dedicated to doing
that each and every day. TheSavage Siblings podcast is a
product of SS two media , uh,our lineup, and we have so many
other projects that we have inthe canon that we can't wait to
share with you. So, as always,thank you so much for joining
us for this episode. And withthat, bro , bro , you ready to
get savage?

Andre (42:29):
Yeah , definitely. Let's definitely get Savage . So, as
Nikki said , the title of thisepisode is , is get in Where
You Fit In . And so as we'rejust kind of looking at that
notion , you know, that , thatneed to be needed, need to
understand your place with ,you know, in any particular

(42:50):
dynamic, relational orstructural, whatever it might
be. Mm-hmm . ,you know , one of the things
that, that Nikki already said,and I wanna unpack here for
just a moment, is that wereally are created for
belonging where we're createdto be needed . And , and we're
, we're , we created it inthat, in such a way that it's
not just about what you bringto the table, what you do, it's

(43:11):
really about who you're, thatmakes difference as to whether
or not it's a healthy need or,or an unhealthy need . So, like
Nikki , if I said something ,if I said to you , uh, here's
an infant that's cuddling andbeing protected by their
mother. Mm-hmm . , or I say to you, here's an
adolescent girl that's askedout on a date by a boy who she

(43:33):
had a crush, who she has acrush on. Right . Or I say to
you, here's this studentathlete who's carried being
carried on the shoulders of histeammates off the field because
he just scored the winninggoal. Mm-hmm . Or if I say,
here's an employee that wasfired by his boss and receives
no calls or expressions ofconcern. If all of those kind

(43:55):
of bring out some type ofemotion, like most people,
we're gonna have some type of,of emotion from these very
brief descriptions of what itis I'm talking about, what it ,
these scenarios I brought out ,whether it's empathy, or
whether it's hurt, or whetherit's joy, whatever it might be,
whatever brief emotionalexperience that that was just
had when I talked about thesethings, then you're in the

(44:20):
subject , or at least you havethe understanding of why we
created for relationship .
Mm-hmm . , here'smy mm-hmm . , who
did you see as yourself? Sowhen I said the infant and the
mother, who did you see asyourself? The mother or the
infant? Or what did you see ofyourself? Did you see yourself

(44:42):
showing up as the one, you know, you're , you definitely knew
to cuddle or you , you knew howto soothe the baby. Right? So,
so in all these scenarios, youend up kind of seeing yourself
as something that's good . Andhere's the reason why. Um , uh,
here's the reason why when Isay, when we say, get in where
you fit in, when we say you,there's you , we all have a

(45:04):
need to be needed because wewere created for relationship.
We were created for belonging.
Mm-hmm . It's because we havethis intuitive psychology. And
that intuitive psychology says,I'm in a scenario, whether it's
a relationship or ainstitution, or a system, I'm
in this and I'm valued myrelationship mm-hmm . To the

(45:27):
scenario brings value out ofme. Mm-hmm . .
And when I, when, when, so whenI look at my value in any
situation, that's what helps meknow, am I in a healthy
belonging or an unhealthyneeding ? And , and , and
that's a struggle for mostpeople to Yes . Uh , both
understand and respond to. Andthe reason I say struggle is

(45:51):
because if I'm in a healthybelonging, then I, then , then
the struggle might not be thereso much. But the struggle shows
itself when we're struggling tobe who we're authentically
because belonging requiresauthenticity. Lemme just be me.
And if I'm just me in thissituation and I still fit

(46:13):
really well, and I'm stillcontributing, and I'm still
pushing forward the scenario ofthe situation, then that's a
healthy belonging. Some peopleare in a belonging, but they
don't know who they're Right .
And they don't know , theydon't know the value of just
being themselves. And so thatbecomes into a , that ends up
being an unhealthy , uh,needing . And then there are

(46:36):
those on the flip side, thatthey're only there because they
just wanna feel needed bysomebody . Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm .
Needed by something, becausethe majority of their
experiences in life, it's beenrejection. Mm-hmm . It's been
ostracized. Mm-hmm . It's been,you don't really belong here.
You don't fit in here. Youdon't look like us. You don't

(46:56):
act like us. And so at the ,you know , so , so they don't
have the relational value thatcomes with needing with a
healthy belonging versus anunhealthy needing. And so I say
it's a struggle because dopeople really know their val
their relational value wheneverthey step onto a particular

(47:17):
scene , situation, scenario,circumstance, whatever it may
be, every room I walk in, Iknow my relational value. Now,
part of it is because I can behighly egotistical and I can be
like , I don't . Sothat's a great portion of who I
am , that that helps me say .
Right . That's important toknow . I , I know. But , but I
also believe there is a healthybalance between being Yes .

(47:39):
Being , knowing your value andindependence, and knowing your
value independence, or what I'mgonna call belonging, so mm-hmm
. , but there area lot of people that walk into
a room and they're justuncertain. Yeah . They're just
absolutely uncertain of whothey're supposed to be here and
the and mm-hmm . And , and I ,and , and that's why I say
sometimes it's a struggle justto be yourself. Like, I don't

(48:02):
ever wanna be in a situation ora room or amongst company where
I can't just be me. Mm-hmm .
, I , I justcan't just let me flow. And
sometimes for me, that'sdifficult to overcome initially
because most people know mefrom Sunday morning. Yeah, yeah
. But I am not Sunday morning.
No, no, no , no. I'm complex .

(48:23):
Yeah . No , I'm , I'mdefinitely more complex. So, so
sometimes it's a struggle notfor me to be myself as much as
it's for me to come to besomebody, be like, ,
listen, I Yes, yes. I wascoming out of the book of
Matthews this morning, but nowI'm coming outta this Pinot
noir and I'm gonna be all right. You gonna be all right ? Yes.
I was coming from thetheological teachings of John ,

(48:45):
but yes . Mm-hmm . Now I'mfinna come from the beverage
teachings of, of Bud Light, andI'm You gonna be alright ? You
gonna be alright ? Look , I'mnot saying pray for , pray for
you gonna be alright , . You gonna be alright ?
Because listen, I belong atthis sports bar. I belong in
this movie theater . Ibelong at this amusement park I

(49:06):
like , like these , you knowwhat I'm saying? So , so , so
for some people it's a strugglebecause you know what? You're,
you're , you're , you'recarrying yourself on the job
one way. You're carryingyourself in your home. Another
way you carrying yourself inchurch. Another way you
carrying yourself on the roadanother way. Mm-hmm . Who are
you? And see that, that kind ofdilute , that's goods your
relational value. And you maynot ever get a sense of

(49:29):
belonging because you're just,you're morphing everywhere. You
go. Here, I need , that's sogood to be this here. I need to
be that here. I need to bethis. No. Everywhere I go, I
belong here. Why? 'cause I'mthis, I belong here. Why?
'cause I am this. I don't eversay I need , I'm . I'm
this, I'm, people come up toCorin and Corey all the time,

(49:52):
be like , uh, you , your dad'scrazy. And they'll be like,
yeah, why? Because I'm crazywith them. , I'm crazy
on the job. I'm crazy in thechurch. I'm crazy with them . D
I'm crazy on the road . , I'm , I'm crazy. Grocery
store . In the grocery store.
I'm crazy. It's just , that'sso , so , you know, because to
me, that's my relational value.

(50:14):
That's absolutely my relationalvalue. People will tell me on
Sunday morning, you , you justreal when you up there, because
I'm not finna come up therespeaking the Queen English
talking about these , and th coming up , thumb out .
I done went through hellyesterday, but thank God for
God, thank God for Jesus.
Mm-hmm . . I almost cussed somebody out

(50:35):
yesterday. But thank God forthe Holy Spirit. Right .
Because I'm just , and , and ,and that's what I'm saying on
Friday, and that's what I'msaying on Sunday. That's what
I'm saying on Wednesday night,and that's what I'm saying on
Sunday. Yeah . You know , I'mlike , I just, can you, can you
find , can you belong becauseyou're just being you. That's

(50:57):
your relational value. Andthat's why people say, man, we
need you around. Why? Becauseyou just being yourself. That's
, they belong.

Anitra (51:07):
That's authentic. Ooh ,

Andre (51:08):
That's good. Yeah. Yeah.

Anitra (51:10):
That's good. I love that. Um , and I co-sign all of
it. And the trouble is real. Ithink when I was kind of
processing it, it's, it's whatyou say , it starts with you
really Analyzing yourself andunderstanding who you are as
you're now going through life,where life is going to require
, um, that that kind of, Idon't know if duality is the

(51:30):
word, but the both sides of thecoin of being needed and mm-hmm
. And then , you know, tryingto also maintain your
independence. So I put, Ilabeled it the verse syndrome.
Yes. Um , and please, you guysdon't, don't come, don't come
at me, y'all. I love verses , Ilove verses like the next
person, the millions of peoplethat love it. But I loved it as
it evolved to a space of youdidn't have to air, quote,

(51:51):
choose a winner, because I'm,I'm telling you, earth, wind
and Fire and Isley Brothers,they're, they're both equal ,
equally dope . That's the bestone in their own ways . Yeah .
Right.

Andre (52:00):
Yeah .

Anitra (52:00):
And so I think that same kind of, you know, I'll
say , uh, loose , uh,comparison when we're kind of
defining ourself . I mean, forme, I never liked the pressure
of being needed. And that comesfrom me being the , the
youngest child. Mm-hmm .
. Mm-hmm .
that comes from,you know , nature of being
spoiled, things like that.
Because I felt like thatpressure was a threat to my
independence, right? Yes. Yeah.

(52:21):
And so I was raised as anindependent young woman. So
there's, there's layers, whichis what bro , bro was saying
about the complexity ofunderstanding who you are as
you delve into how you're goingto navigate the need to be
needed and the need to control.
'cause that's really the thing.
When we're kind of on the proindependent side, what we're
also saying is, I want to buildspaces that I own. 'cause I

(52:42):
wanna be able to control it, tocontrol my independence so that
I can what, so I can give it atwill or I can protect it at
will. And so when you're kindof navigating this versus space
of, I, I value my independence.
I value that space where I cankeep people out. Where I don't
have to say, oh, you need help.
No, no, no, no. That's gonnatake something from my

(53:03):
independence. Yeah . Yeah .
That means I gotta give yousome of mine. Uh, that versus
syndrome says, Hey, you don'thave to choose. Life is not
about choosing thatindependence versus if you're
going to give and someoneelse's, you know, I'll call it
that vulnerability of needingversus if you're gonna help
somebody, you , you're gonna goback and forth. And so you have
to first really get anunderstanding, like Andre just

(53:23):
really presented of who you are. Yeah. And be okay. Yeah . You
know, being that person thatthere's times where your
independence needs to beprotected and maybe you're not
the answer to someone else'sneed. And then there's times
where no , you need to step upand be , uh, uh, you know, give
and support and provide someresources to someone else. I'll
give you a couple of examples.

(53:44):
I was dating this guy who livedin Sacramento and I , you know,
I was in LA and I would fly outto visit him on certain
weekends. And so, you know, inmy desire, you know, to
be independent Uhhuh , I wouldjust, you know, go park the car
at the airport, fly out for theweekend and come back. And you
guys know that's girl . There'sa girls code 1 0 1, always one

(54:05):
of your girlfriends has to knowwhere you're going. Yeah. How
long you going be so just foryour safety. Right. But my
desire to protect my airquotes, independence. I
foolishly was making thesetrips without letting, and I
definitely wouldn't let familyknow. Yeah .

Andre (54:21):
Because don't know nothing about this .

Anitra (54:24):
I've been delivered set free . Right. And so, but the
one, one of the weekend , uh,I'm flying back to LA and um,
somebody , uh, they, theyjacked me. You guys, they took
my wallet. Uh , 'cause I would,I would ride the little shuttle
to go to the, the parking rideI'd park . We had the , you
know, the cheapest rate for theweekend. Oh Lord . And I get
from in the shuttle, and I knowthe guy that did it. But I, I

(54:45):
foolishly didn't realize untilafter he was gone that he had
got my wallet. Because when Iwas stepping into the van, he
was up close. And I turned andkind of looked at him like, you
Finn to catch these hands, . And he immediately
saw, and this , this is how badit was, y'all. He saw that I
was actually carrying, I hadlike a , this is gonna
sound so bad. I had adevotional. . Oh Lord. I
had a Bible devotional. I ,

Andre (55:04):
Wait, wait , you took your Bible to your No , just ,
no , you just leave it there.
. Just leave it there aminute . Your

Anitra (55:11):
Game on how people boot . I didn't say it was a booty
call. It was not a booty

Andre (55:16):
Call. You didn't have to say , it was not to say , lemme

Anitra (55:19):
Be clear, it was not.
None of that. None of thatstuff was

Andre (55:22):
Going down . Don't buy, you don't even buy tickets from
cheap tickets . Call for aBible study, whatever.

Anitra (55:29):
I'm telling y'all , I was not that. Don't you believe
my brother? But here's how thisguy got me y'all. Because he
was too close to me. And Ilooked at him and I, you know,
my brother taught me like I wasabout to give, you know, put
some hands on him. And he goes,oh, is that a devotional? And
me and my foolish, you know,

Andre (55:45):
Naive

Anitra (55:45):
Self .

Andre (55:45):
I was like, yes, it's , and so

Anitra (55:48):
We're riding in the

Andre (55:49):
Show . The devil knows Shutt . Read that devotion
though .

Anitra (55:52):
My wallet ,

Andre (55:54):
Wallet . He , he could have done that all day. He know
You didn't open that. Youdidn't crack that bible open. I
didn't crack it . Yeah . That's, I want , listen,

Anitra (56:02):
I want the record to reflect. None of those trips
were inappropriate in that theway my brothers tried to apply.
But anyway ,

Andre (56:10):
The Lord

Anitra (56:11):
Story , the Lord knows Jesus knows.

Andre (56:14):
Oh , oh , he knows . He heard you . He heard
your fry . So,

Anitra (56:22):
So this man had my wallet. I didn't know. 'cause
we pull up to the parkinggarage, everybody goes their
separate ways. I get into mycar, I've got my ticket, and
I'm like, where is my wallet?
Long story short, I had to callmy homegirl and was like,
you're gonna have to come andbring me. And they, you know,
they charge you the max at thattime , that time, you know ,
life , you had to pay the foolfor the day rate or whatever.

(56:42):
If you couldn't find yourticket, they maximize it.
'cause it's your fault thatyou, you know, lost your
wallet, whatever. So it's like1130 at night on a Sunday.
'cause I'm coming back on theweekend. So I'm pulling her
outta her bed. , she'sdriving now to the airport
shuttle place to pick me up andto pay and to pay for
my ticket. Said that I gottaget my stuff together. And so

(57:03):
as she's, you know, I get in mycar and she stops and she hugs
me and she says, Anitra, , move forward. God
forgives you. No, she didn't doany of that. She's not
judgmental like my brother. Shesays, moving forward, she said,
let's just agree that whenyou're gonna go to the airport,
we're gonna plan it in advance, . And we're gonna , I'm
gonna drop you off. Likebasically saying, in your kind

(57:26):
of protection of yourindependence, you have shown
your vulnerability. Right?
, it's your need .
Right? Oh God , God . Insteadof just purely dealing with it
straight up, instead of justsaying, Hey, I'm going on a
trip. This is where I'm gonnabe. Can you help me out? Can
you drive? Can you drop me off?
And that becomes, again, that'swhy it's a versus syndrome,
right? We get to these spaceswhere sometimes we're like, I
don't want to invite peopleinto my space because then I

(57:50):
have to, what? I have to showthem my vulnerability, show
them my need. I'm protecting myindependence. And here's the
thing, when you do that, youget exposed anyway, because I
was Right. , you getexposed anyway. And now you
also have to balance it out.
Because I obviously wanted topay her back. She wasn't
requiring that. Ooh , thank God. But I had to do quite a bit
to kind of, and she's, that'sthe beauty of good friends. And

(58:12):
so it even brings me to anotherreally short story, but all
about my independence, youknow, and my freedom versus the
need. When I first had , youknow, when, when Ralph and I,
my ex-husband, we first had ourson Malachi, we were living in
a bachelorette apartment inInglewood. And if you guys
don't know Bachelorettes are ,uh, smaller than studios. Yeah.
I remember . Don't even haveremember . I remember it .

(58:32):
Yeah. They don't even havekitchenettes. They, they just
have like the rest the bathroomwith the, you know, the tub and
all that stuff. Little side ,little sink area. Mm-hmm .
. And so they'rereally made obviously not for,
for families or at least it canbe a little bit more of a
struggle to make a family workin there. And bro , I kid you
not that for , so I had Kai , Iwas on maternity leave before I
went back to my job. And formonths, all the people at my

(58:55):
job , uh, family, friends wereall reaching out like, Hey, can
we come by for a visit? Youknow, we got stuff for your son
and we can't wait to, and Iwould just shun them all. Yeah.
I just say no, because I wasashamed of our living
situation. Right . And I wasashamed of what we had
financially. And I rememberonce I got back to work and as
I started getting back outtalking to people, they all

(59:16):
would just gimme the gifts thatthey had collected for months.
Mm-hmm . , someof the stuff Kai could no
longer even fit at that point.
He had already . Theywere like, has he graduated
from college at this point?
Like, you know, like, what'sgoing on? Right. And it was
because of my own , uh, youknow, just foolish shame where
people who want to haverelationships with you,
they're, they're trying to be ,uh, the answer. They're trying

(59:38):
to be a need. They're trying tofill needs in you or trying to
help you through that process.
And they don't have judgment.
They don't come with that spaceof, oh, I'm gonna judge what
you are. They'll take yourembarrassment, your shame and
say here. And that's the thingthat my mom, our mom said to
us, she was just like, Anitraor Nikki , she's like, Nikki ,
it's, they don't care aboutthat. What they're saying is,
we wanna share right in the joyof this new, you know, this new

(01:00:01):
development in your life, wewanna, and , and if nothing
else, and she told me this too,sometimes when they see your
circumstance mm-hmm.
, they're gonnastart filling in the needs
based on what they see . Seebased on that . Yep . But if
you're not allowing them to seeit, then you know, there's a ,
you're not allowing that spaceto come to where they can step
in. So I'll just, I'll say thisand I'll kick it back to you

(01:00:22):
when it comes to that versussyndrome. Both can be good.
Mm-hmm . , it'sokay. When you need to protect
your independence. It's okaywhen you need to show your
vulnerability, but when youview the need to be needed as
pressure mm-hmm . , then you block your ability
to be a blessing, your abilityto be a blessing to someone

(01:00:42):
else. And when you shun someoneelse's desire to be your
solution or support to yourneed, you block your own
blessing. Yeah. Yeah . Fromcoming in. And so get rid of
the vers syndrome and know thatboth can be good and find that
harmony, you know, for that. SoI'll kick it back to you,
brother . So , so is it a getrid of the vers or balance the

(01:01:03):
vers syndrome balance? That'sprobably better. Yeah . Balance
it.