I Got Five On It ~ Part One

This episode discusses the art of fair partnership, reciprocity, and negotiation between siblings and the impact that understanding reciprocity has on future relationships. Reciprocity and fair partnership are valuable and foundational for healthy adult relationships and building a healthy future. Join in on the laughter and inspiration with the Savage Siblings as they discuss the pros and cons of reciprocity and how that is connected to the spirit of negotiation. The episode asks, what do we both bring to the table of our relationships, business partnerships and human interactions? Learn the difference between healthy reciprocity and transactional relationships and get better to reach agreement and harmony through the value of reciprocity.  

Memorable quotes:

• Reciprocity is about siblings feeling appreciated for their role and respected for their skill. ~ Andre
• When you understand what you bring to the table,  you have reciprocity and value each other. ~ Andre
• If we share, we all become better and bless the future generation.  ~ Andre
• Your gift is only a gift when you give it for others to be better. ~ Andre
• Flow of energy or effort and understanding that it has to be in both directions. ~ Anitra
• In reciprocity, the other person should feel the value and/or love, I give, we give, you give. ~ Anitra
• Core of reciprocity you have to learn both sides of the relationship. ~ Anitra
• Reciprocity for givers sometimes is difficult and for receivers, giving may be difficult. ~ Anitra
• In reciprocity, you must learn how to stop giving away free samples, and realize what you have is valuable. ~ Andre
• Trust your judgment on who you bring to the table so you aren’t manipulated. ~ Andre
• Don’t let everybody come to the table! You are about to eat on when it comes to reciprocity. ~ Andre
• Cultivate the table so you don’t depend on impulse, ask critical questions before you invite others to the table. ~ Andre

Keywords: 

#MentalHealth, #therapy,  #psychotherapy, #relationships, #psychology, #healing, #counseling, #ministry, #theology, #transformation, #change, #counselor, #therapist, #wholeness, #healthy, #health, #lifestyle, #mental, #emotions, #emotional, #spiritual, #minister, #christianliving, #christian, #wellness, #lifecoach, #forgiveness, #SavageSibling, #Savage, #Sibling,  #Brother, #Sister, #Family, #Parent, #S2Mediaworks, #SavageSiblingsPodcast, #Negotiation, #Fairpartnership, #Reciprocity, #Comingtothetable, # Knowthetable, #Reliability, #Harmonyoverbalance, #Transactional/antireciprocity, #ParasitenotReciprocity,  #Sacrifice, #Takermentality,

Call to Action: 

• Post comments! Leave us a review!
• Share your thoughts on how you define reciprocity.  Have you developed excellent negotiation skills from your siblings?
• Any topics you want us to discuss?

Sound Editors: Kyle Davis and Dwayne McClendon
Music: Maxwell Music
Photography: K.Cross Photography

Brutally Honest. Relentlessly Transparent. Unapologetically Authentic.

Episode Transcript

Anitra (00:00):
Hey, hey, beautiful people. How are we
doing? I am Anitra n Lawsonstoryteller, producer,
educator, content creator. Heis Dr. Andre Evans,

Andre (00:23):
What's going on? Savage Siblings.

Anitra (00:27):
He is a pastor, a father theologian, author,
writer, content creator,brother. That's still, I don't
want even after all theseyears. And we are the Savage
siblings, and this is theSavage Sibling Podcast where we
are brutally honest,relentlessly transparent, and
unapologetically authentic.
Thank you for joining us foranother episode, bro. Bro ,

(00:51):
check in with you. How youdoing?

Andre (00:53):
I'm doing well. Can't complain. Can't complain at all
. I , um, had a chance to hangout with some of my, my
leadership team, executiveteam, and, and whenever we hang
out , uh, as, as connected andapropos for this particular
episode where we hang out,somebody's always busting out
the cards. And so , uh, we findourselves oftentimes in

(01:14):
competition, but playing bidwhiz , you ever wanna see
church folks show their truecolors and their need for
Jesus? Go to a card table, , but , um, a hundred
percent . But , um, um,it's , it's so funny. As I was
kind of researching andpreparing for this particular
episode, I realized howimportant it is to make sure,
especially in card games, andour game is bid whizz . That's

(01:37):
an old folk game for you ,young siblings, right ?
Listening

Anitra (01:39):
To this

Andre (01:40):
, um, how important it is to have the
right partner for the game. Mm. Good . Like if you , that's ,
if the , if you don't have theright partner bringing the
right cards to the table, youknow, part teams will fight
amongst each other, ,you know , know , just yelling
at each other, right? So one ofthe things I, I love about Wi
Bid wisdom in particular is thefact that sometimes I can carry

(02:03):
the whole hand by myself, and Idon't necessarily need my
partner to bring anything. Butwhat I also realize is in that
though, my partner is stilleverything. Meaning, like, even
if you don't bring any cards tothe table, I should be able to
have the same vibe with you.
Like, you know, you know, ifI'm, if I'm playing a Trump
card, don't you play the Trumpcard trying to beat my card?

(02:25):
Like, let me win .
Like, but every now and then Iget this new dude on the table,
and that's what I was stuckwith. That's the worst thing at
a card party, is to get stuckwith a partner you've never
played with before . Not evensure if they know how to play.
And I'm telling you, I almostquit midway. And if it had that
been for someone like tappingme, talking about , don't
forget what you do on Sunday,I'd have walked off the table.

(02:49):
This absolutely don't off thetable, right? That's what I
feel. I feel like, listen, thisain't got nothing to do with a
collar I wear on Sunday. Thisreal life. It's real life, you
know? Uh , but yeah, so, so it, it just really put me in a
mindset of how valuable it isto have someone who's in , in
sync with you, vibing with youwhen you trying to win at this

(03:11):
thing, whether it's cards orwin at life, it's always good
to have somebody rocking withyou who's on the same
wavelength and just bring stumpto the table that, that, that
you can use. So both of y'allcan , can have victory. So
that, that, that was , uh, thatwas on my mind as we were
playing, or this, this episoderather, was on my mind as we
were playing. And , and again,it's just, yeah, it's just good

(03:33):
, good blows to have somebody,you're right. Well, it can, and
that's what I'm saying, just inlife, it's just good to have
somebody that's like, that's onthe same wavelength as you just
, y'all can look at each otherand just, and a whole
dissertation could be said andjust one look. 'cause you just,
you just know what each other'sthinking about. Mm-hmm . What
each other's bringing to thetable. Let's go on and , and ,

(03:56):
and get this money. Let's goand get this bread .
Let's go on and get thisvictory. It's , it's just good
to have somebody like that inyour corner at the table with
you. So, yeah. That , that's ,that's what my realization was
after that moment that's beencarrying me all week. So I'm
love it . But anyways, that'sme. What's been good with you?

Anitra (04:11):
You know, it's funny , um, this week is , it's been
about striving and , uh, and Ijust kept thinking about how
you have to push through andstrive and , uh, you know, when
I was growing up, middleschool, high school, I ran
track, but I was never fast. I, I just had, you know, okay ,
I could do long distance. Inessence, I had stamina. So I
would always run like the 800,the mile. And , uh, there used

(04:34):
to be this medley race whereyou had like , uh, two, 200
runners, and then you had a 400runner, and then you had, right
, the 800 that would round itout. I remember that . I would
do that, and it was, it was agood race because I had strong
people starting. So I just hadto maintain, you know, ,
wherever we got when it got tomeet . Just , just maintain,
don't the edge , you just don't

Andre (04:53):
Lose it. You just don't lose.

Anitra (04:54):
Right? Just don't lose the edge. Now , it didn't
matter if we were last, justkeep last, you know, ,
right ?

Andre (04:59):
Just keep last.

Anitra (05:00):
And we were first. You better keep that first. Don't
get to second, you know? And soI remember loving that space
where it was just like, just,just maintain this. And then
pretty soon I got moved towhere I just ran long distance
and I started to miss thatability to pass it off to
somebody or hand it off. I waslike, man, it's just me out
here. Like, whew , ain't nobodyto , we still run it . Ain't

(05:22):
nobody to pass this too . Nope. It's just your competition
around you. You better learnhow to strive . You
better learn how to stick in itso you can't run too fast at
the beginning. You can't runtoo slow at the end. You had to
kind of Right , right . Hitthat stride and hit that
rhythm. And so that's, thisweek I've been looking like,
where's my team? Stick? Right ?
Stick ,

Andre (05:40):
Right . I'm with you .

Anitra (05:41):
Like , I'm ready to pass it. This . Someone's like,
Nope. It's just you in thisrace right now. So just keep
pushing it . Doubt . No doubt.
It's been good doubt . It'sbeen good lessons. And God
always lets me know he is therewith me. So I am srid and
striving in this season, andI'm, I'm happy for it. So no
complaints. I love it .

Andre (05:56):
But , um, let's jump into this sound off segment.

Speaker 4 (05:59):
Sound off segment.
Sound

Andre (06:03):
Off . So this particular episode is entitled, I got five
on it. I got five on it . And ,um, the reason why we titled it
I got five on it is because , it's this, it's this,
it's this thought process thatas siblings, we, we learn
something early on. And that'sthis kind of spirit of

(06:25):
reciprocity, this, thisunderstanding what you bring to
the table, what I might bringto the table, what we bring to
, to the table together, sothat then we could get higher
if well , or get or go higher.
I got , I got five on it in mymind right now. get
higher, or we could go higher,pun intended , uh, whatever,
whatever, whichever way y'allwanna roll with it is fine with

(06:45):
me. No judgment here. Nojudgment here at all. .
But , but it really, you know,because you , you learn, what
do you bring to the table? Whatyou got that's gonna help us
win what you got that's gonnabring us victory? And, and when
I really thought about it as itrelates to kind of this , this
just sound off to , uh, of , of, of this particular episode

(07:06):
mm-hmm . is wereally do learn reciprocity as
siblings, but we first learnedit as negotiating. That's what
we first learned it as. Like,siblings are naturally going
into this negotiation process,right? Because you can't help
yourself, right? You just, you, you , it's 'cause I know what
I want outta life. I need mysister to help me. So let me go

(07:28):
to negotiate her her part inall of this so that I can get
to where I want to be. Right?
And so it's in that negotiationprocess that we do learn some
stuff and, you know, itwouldn't , you know, we learn
what it is we actually can dothat brings success to a team
effort. Even if that teameffort is like, I want this, I

(07:50):
still gotta negotiate with myyounger sister. I gotta know
what she brings to the table. Igotta know what she can do
really well so that, that wecan do it in order to know what
you bring to the table. Mm-hmm. You first learn to negotiate
who you are and what you have,and you really do this in
childhood. Um, a as siblings, I , I just, I just, you

(08:11):
know, as a sibling , uh, what Iknow what I want in life, and
this is because of my historywith you, Nikki . Mm-hmm .
, I'm actuallybetter prepared right now to be
able to negotiate things inlife because of what I went
through growing up. No, I'mserious. So , so whether I , I
, look , I'm full or preparedto negotiate a hostage standoff

(08:33):
of some high stakes labordisputes because I , I know ,
listen, I'm , no , I'm deadserious. If the F b I called me
right now, and I know my F B Iagent is listening, if I'm
called right now, , I'mtelling you, I know how to nego
because I've had to negotiatenow and later from Nicki
Percent . I've had to negotiate , right? I've had to
negotiate, you know, hersilence because of what I was

(08:57):
fitting to get into

Anitra (08:58):
What he was doing .
.

Andre (08:59):
So, I , I , listen, listen, I'm telling you right
now, I be , I've been watchingtoo many of them movies. I'll
tell you right now, c i a callme right now, , I can
get a terrorist out . He'sequipped. , I'm
equipped. I'm fully ready. I amabsolutely fully ready because
I'll tell you , I , they wereNikki , Hey , you gotta learn
how to keep your secret. If yougo hang with me, . Like

(09:19):
I've said that to you. I'vesaid that to you. And , and
here's the thing about learningnegotiations . I think what
it's gonna

Anitra (09:24):
Cost you, .

Andre (09:26):
See? And see, here's the thing. It went bo it went one
of two ways. You either told mewhat it's gonna cost me or
watch this. I had to learnNikki's sins so I could
leverage them against her.
. Listen, that's theart of negotiation. . I
like, listen, I'm about to dowrong. I know you are wrong.
Let's go and get this. Let's ,let's go be quiet for each

(09:49):
other. Let's go . And thosetopate those negotiations,

Anitra (09:53):
I silently walk away , right ?

Andre (09:55):
. So either way, either way, that's what I, it's
kind of how, how I learned it.
Because when you think aboutnegotiation, I'm gonna say this
and I'm gonna throw it to youand then, then I'll come right
back in a second. But when youthink about negotiations, it
really is, it's like thisinteraction between two points
of view. Like, I want to dothis. Nicki doesn't want to get

(10:16):
in trouble, right ? But I wantto find a little trouble to get
into, let's meet halfway.
Let's, let's, let's meethalfway . So, so that,
that's my, you know, that's ourfirst step to learning what we
bring to the table or thespirit of reciprocity is first
the art of negotiation. So I'm,I'm gonna pause there and I
wanna get your thoughts on, onnegotiations.

Anitra (10:36):
Oh , I 100% co side , everything you just said. And I
, as I was kind of unpackingthis notion of reciprocity via
siblings, it's like this ever,it's this never ending goal to
get to, to air quotes fairpartnership, right? Like that's
kind of that foundational thingof fair partnership. But for
those of you guys that hadbrother sisters like me, Andre

(10:56):
was never fair in thepartnership , he would
say,

Andre (10:59):
Fair is subjective. Fair is subjective.

Anitra (11:02):
No , no . Saying , I'm gonna break it down. He would
say, yeah, it's a partnership.
Yeah, we're gonna have someharmony. Listen, shout out to
all the younger siblings, ifyou remember them times when
your parents would leave thehouse. And obviously
unfortunately the oldest eldestsibling was left. What in
charge? And I remember standinglooking at the door as mom or

(11:25):
dad would leave and I'dbe blinking my eyes furiously
trying to sit blinking twice .

Andre (11:30):
If you're everybody

Anitra (11:31):
Else , don't leave me here . , he beats me
when you're gone . Right? He'sgoing to do these things,
right? But, so even whenparents first kind of try to
establish that reciprocity,that fair partnership among
siblings, 'cause they wanttheir children to understand
sharing, et cetera , right ?
Once they're gone, that's allout the window. Now all out the

(11:52):
window. Everybody is fightingfor their version as, as Andre
Burwell . You just kind ofpresented that, that
negotiation. So when mom anddad are home, the TV remote is
fair game, right? That meansDre gets to watch he-man and
then Nikki gets to watch myLittle Pony Still discussions
right about that. You're gonnarotate none whatsoever . It's
gonna a balance, right? Samething with video games, right?

(12:14):
Even if Nikki loses, she getsto stay on the couch and after
you play, then she gets toplay. But as soon as your
parents

Andre (12:21):
Are gone, yeah , I remember that. ,

Anitra (12:22):
The TV remote is no longer fair game. Now it's
marathon of he-man and GI Joeand all the shows and
Nickelodeon that I don't wannawatch, right? Like the stuff
that I wanna watch, there's nonegotiation 'cause he's the
older brother. So now you gottago find someplace else to do
that. So yes. Then you startsaying, okay, well how can I
leverage this? Right? So nowyou're thinking about, okay,

(12:44):
well when that girl calls nexttime and I answer

Andre (12:48):
,

Anitra (12:48):
I'm gonna see , I'm gonna see if I think about if
you're really home right? Whencall waiting is in full effect,
maybe I won't click over, maybeI'll just won't keep

Andre (12:56):
Having my conversation.
Right ?

Anitra (12:59):
And you start to learn as Ro mentioned, how to
leverage those two things tomake sure that there's some
level of it. But I do think ourparents really do train us to,
to learn reciprocity amongstsiblings really well. Well they
try to,

Andre (13:13):
Right? They try to .

Anitra (13:14):
It doesn't always work, but I definitely, you know,
when they're around, theirmindset is you share, you
balance, there's some harmonyto it, right ? Right . Take
time . But then I think as youget , uh, a little bit savvier
in it, you know, then you learnhow to use it in a way that
benefits the both of you. Solike when it's Saturday cho day
.

Andre (13:30):
Sure .

Anitra (13:30):
Absolutely. You know, I remember Dre would be like,
well you're better at cleaningthe bird cage out than I am.
And I used to enjoy that. Soyou do that and then I'll do
this over here. 'cause we gottaget it done before the end of
the day. So mom's not tripping.
And so you start to find waysto say, well, let me take on
this. I clean this better or Ido this better, right ? And
let's get it done. 'cause atthe end of the day, we wanna
have the rest of our Saturdayto ourselves. And so you start

(13:50):
to kind of find that fairpartnership as you get older.
But definitely siblings yeah .
Will definitely teach you whatthey bring to the table.
Definitely teach you how to beaggressive to get what you
want. And then you do start topay attention to their needs.
And I'll say this last thingcan get back to you. Even when
you're younger, you, you sortof naturally kind of care, you
know about your siblings and,and mm-hmm . ,
are they gonna get some of whatI'm getting? And I remember

(14:12):
getting gifts or getting thingswhen I was young and I'd be
like, well, what about Andre?
Does he get one of these twomm-hmm . mm-hmm .
Can he have some of this? Andit does change as you get older
than you're like, you getnothing. But when you're young,
there's a sweet spot there andyou try to share it. And so I
think it's, it's the complexlearning experience with
siblings that helps usunderstand reciprocity, the
good, the bad, the ugly. So letme kick it back to you.

Andre (14:32):
Right? Right. No, no.
There's, there is that growthprocess and it does spill over
into adulthood. And it's sofunny that you mentioned that
there is still this portion ofcare, because even while I'm
the one defining what fair iswhen you're young, I still
needed to make sure thatsomething in my heart still
wanted to make sure that yougot something out of it. Mm-hmm

(14:53):
. . And so thenas you got older and we both
started redefining what fair isbecause it's, it's not cookie
cutter for every set ofsiblings. Right. It all , but
that's great because it's notonly cookie cutter for every
set of siblings , it's not evencookie cutter every single time
in one particular set ofsiblings. And that's the,

(15:13):
that's the importance oflearning this kind of spirit of
reciprocity. Because then asyou get into an adulthood, not
every moment of reciprocity isthe same. And we can't approach
it, the sames. And as we reallyunpack this topic, we're gonna
see the detriment of, of, ofoversharing. The detriment of
being the giver Too much, thedetriment of being the taker
too much. Right? Yeah . Yeah .

(15:34):
Because absolutely reciprocityworks because from at a young
age, we're taught thenegotiation, the art of
returning favors. Yeah . And to, and , and , and we , we learn
how to return favors. Then whathappens is, is we avoid the
social stigma as an adult ofbeing this ingrate or always
being a taker. Mm-hmm .

(15:54):
or always livingin a vacuum or being isolative.
Right . And it really does endup being this sibling thing
that is taught because ourparents, they taught us in
theory what it means to share.
Right. That's good . In theory.
That's good theory . What itmeans to, to , to , to give
what it means to take turns.
They taught us in theory.

(16:14):
Mm-hmm . Because I can't say tomy , uh, I can't teach from
child to parent. There'scertain things I can't teach in
the art of negotiation.
Reciprocity. 'cause a parentcan say, no, no, no, this is
the way it's going to be. Andthat's it. Mm-hmm .
mm-hmm .
. Right . But asa parent, you know, talk , you
know, speaking with childrenwho are siblings, I can say,

(16:35):
no, y'all need to learn toshare. Right. You need to
learn. That's right . That'sgood. And , and so that , yeah.
Those negotiation processesdefinitely find their way into
adulthood. And , and , and it's, you know, you know , I'm ,
I'm not still trying to forge acompromise over the v h s you
know, trying to watch , youknow , right. For young people.
Google v h s I know you don'tknow what that is. And I , and

(16:56):
I'm also not necessarily tryingto negotiate the world peace
accords, but they're just kindof regular, everyday human
being. Things that reciprocitycan show the benefit to. Uh ,
and using those same skills Idid , uh, when I was young, but
also the same skills as worldleaders use today to solve
world related problems. Right .

(17:18):
Hundred and the best of allthing there is that , uh, we ,
uh, as we kind of get better atreaching agreement in a , in a
painless manner, , it'sbecause of how well we were
able to learn to negotiate ,uh, in this, in this sibling
relationship. The fact of thematter is, I definitely
perfected my negotiation skillsbecause of you Nikki .

(17:40):
And , you know , and you know,you know, the first thing you
said is, is , well, let me tellyou what it's gonna cost you.
But that's very true. Idistinctively remember
times, I used to sneak out ofchurch at Grant Chapel AME in
Wichita, shout out to Dove Kand Grant Chapel ame Right .
Where me and my boys, Chris andKaylin resting priest, Chris
would sneak out of church. And,and you would know. And I

(18:04):
literally would have to say tomyself, how many now and later
is this gonna cost me? Yeah .
. And so I used to haveto say to you, Nikki , I'm
gonna bring you some now andlater back from the corner
store. Like, I'm , I'm spendingmy tithe at the corner store
, because I'm supposedto give it at church, but I'm
finna go to the corner storeand I'm finna get me some noun
later . And I knew, and here'swhat's crazy. I knew at a young

(18:27):
age, Nikki , two to three, nowlaters would get you to keep
your mouth shut. . Andhere's the reason why. It
wasn't because you had amassive sweet tooth. It was
because I knew for a fact thatmom didn't have any now and
later. Right . So now thequestion is , which
one, what is the , um, thevalue that I bring to the table

(18:50):
that keeps Nikki silence ? Onemight not be enough, two might
not be enough , butthree was always enough. And I
it was always enough. And so itwas , so that was the , the so,
so what did that mean? Thatmeant I knew Nikki , I knew
what her needs were. That'swhat we're talking about. When

(19:11):
you got that spirit ofreciprocity, you're simply
saying, I know what my needsare, but I also know what the
needs are of the person I wantto go to victory with. I wanna
win this battle with, I wantget this paper, this bread with
I know their needs. And, andwhat do we both bring to the
table? 'cause I can't be theonly one. And I also can't get
to the point where her givingis obligatory. She feels

(19:34):
obliged. No , I gotta make surethat in the spirit of
reciprocity, we're bothbringing where we're gifted at
and we, we want to bring, wewant to bring in . So we
definitely learn what we bringto the table as far as
giftedness, our hustle,whatever it is. Mm-hmm .
, we , we , welearn it. We absolutely , uh,
learn that there, when I wasthinking about it a little bit

(19:55):
further, if we can go just alittle bit further Sure .
Before we get into thesponsorship , um, eventually
what we learn is that we cannotbe selfish in negotiation.
Right. I started that waybecause I was the older
sibling. It was easy to startthat way. Probably near
impossible for you to startthat way. And I'd love for you
to tap in on that in just asecond. But it was easy for me

(20:18):
to start off selfish. Whereas Ibelieve you probably had to
start off selfless. 'cause youdidn't even know what, you
didn't even know you were in anegotiation. Like you didn't
know , you didn't evenknow what you were getting
into. Right. All you heard wascandy. What about candy? Right
. Candy. Candy. That's candy.
Because that's what I startedwith. I got now later . I got

(20:40):
now later . And it was like, ohyeah, I'd like a now later .
Okay, this is what you gottado. You didn't even know what
you were getting into . So , so, so we start off self . Right,
right. As you're already ,you've already incriminated
yourself. You didn't even knowit . Like you got evidence on
the fruit of your lips,literally. Right . so

(21:00):
and so, you know, buteventually we, we learn that it
, it cannot be a selfish thing.
Mm-hmm . as weget adults. It might try to be,
but selfishness won't make itsway into adulthood reciprocity
that way. Because as an adult,we can tell now you just in
this for yourself. Mm-hmm .
, you just, youjust, you just in this for what

(21:20):
you want, but you ain't not,you're not trying to make sure
that I have a need met. And so,so we learned that as well. Uh
, growing up. There's just thiskind of principled negotiation
. And it becomesstrategic in its effort , uh,
where we're saying, you know,no, no, no. That this is that
heart you were talking aboutearlier. No, no, no. Yeah .
Nicky gotta eat too. Now I got, I'm going to eat. Nikki gotta

(21:41):
eat. We gotta eat together.
'cause if we don't, yeah . ThenI end up having this kind of
polarizing effect. And, and wethen end up in these entrenched
positions where you're like,nah , I'm not getting to give.
And then Andre says, well,okay, well I'm not, I'm not
getting to give. So then whatdid we, we , we we're not
getting anywhere. We're notgetting in an area where we're
both exactly where at impasse.

(22:02):
'cause nobody's getting theirinterests or their needs , uh,
uh, met. But I'm a , I'm , I'm,I'm curious as to , uh, you
know, what you kind of learnedas far as , uh, you know, what
you kind of knew to bring tothe table or giftedness mm-hmm
. , hustle,whatever it means . Uh , I'm
gonna kick it to you for asecond then . We'll, and then ,
uh, I want to keep going alittle bit deeper on this.

Anitra (22:23):
Absolutely. So, yeah, I definitely think there might be
something said for thehierarchy or the , uh, the
birth order. 'cause I think asa younger sibling Yeah. You
come into it and you kind of,you know, mentioned it in terms
of the importance ofunderstanding both people in
the relationship wherereciprocity is concerned.
There's a trust factor theretoo. Right. Absolutely. Which
will probably unpack that a lotmore in the savage segment.

(22:45):
But, you know, I'm also lookingto my big brother in a very
trusting way. 'cause he's asafe haven. He's a safe place.
Which is again, part of thenegotiation and negotiation as
we'll . It is , we will talkabout more, doesn't have to be
negative. It can be, it can be,you know, positive. There's,
there's layers to it as we're,you know, kind of unpacking.
And so you're , you're tryingto come into this space when

(23:05):
it's an older sibling with justfull on trusting. And what you
learn is yes, their uniqueidentity, your unique identity,
and what each of you bring tothe table. So it's kind of
become a staple for my brotherand I, and this probably did
happen when we were younger,but if there's ever a time that
someone needs to kind of talkto our dad, it's always Andre
mm-hmm. . Andthat goes back to what he

(23:26):
brings to the table because hehas the rapport with father.
And so for years it's alwaysbeen, you know, Buro , can you
talk to dad about this? Or canyou ask him about this? Right.
Right. And then when it comesto like, dealing with mom, then
that's kind of been my thing.
And so , oh yeah. Over time ,

Andre (23:40):
every single time, right .

Anitra (23:42):
Over time you learn who the, who your siblings are and
who you are, and you start toreally figure out, is this a
space because of the strengthof who they are, where I need
to be more selfless. They needme to step up into this space
because they know I'm better atit, or I need to , to kind of
step back because they'rebetter at it. Um, you start to

(24:02):
really negotiate that selflessor self ishness based on who
you are as siblings and whatit's called for. And I do think
just our natural innate lovehelps us to make, you know, the
, the right decision. And Iknow I can always, you know,
call on, on my brother to, tostep up when things that he
knows I'm not as strong at andvice versa. Like, even when we

(24:22):
talk about this podcast, like,Dre will be clear, this's
technical stuff you do that,I'm gonna stick to the
creativity in terms of on air .
And we break down our strengthsmm-hmm . to make
this come to life. Mm-hmm .
. Yeah . Um , itmakes me also think about like
our Aunt Ola and think about interms of the structure of her
siblings. Like she is thesibling that brings the family
together. It doesn't matterthree years , I'm many . My my

(24:42):
dad, uncle Wesley, everybodycan talk about, you know, what
they wanna do. But it's alwaysgonna be on Ola that note that
comes in and brings peopletogether. And that's just one
of the gifts and, and the , thetenets of her character that
she's the one that will rallyeveryone together. And I think
when you start to look at yourown sibling structure, you
start to see, you know, whateach sibling brings to the

(25:04):
table. Mm-hmm . .
And there's just this reallynatural, you know, spirit of
reciprocity that's, that's justkind threaded through that. And
that's the beauty of havingsiblings is that Yeah. It's
just like we , we gave theanalogy of, of the , the track,
you know , the relay team orthe bid whiz players, you just
get to where you kind ofnaturally understand how they
flow. And sometimes you, you,you ha you become more selfless

(25:26):
because you , you know that thegreater good of whatever it is
you're dealing with, that theyneed more of you or less of
you. And so whatever that is,that's what you provide. If you
need me to be a little bit morehere or give a little bit more
or take a little less, then I'mwilling to do that because I
understand who you are and youunderstand who I am. Right .
And I understand what we'redoing together. So it's

(25:47):
definitely trust. And Idefinitely think definitely
it's , um, a harmony ofselflessness. Um, and then
yeah, we can have that space ofselfishness. But siblings chip
away at that too. on ageneral basis .

Andre (25:57):
They do. Absolutely.
Absolutely. Because as we getolder, you start to see that
process differently. It's nolonger just a spirit of
reciprocity. It's actually the, uh, the spirit of
relationship where both of usare going to win. And it's not
based on any givens. 'causelike you said , um, aunt Ola
ends up being this matriarch,but she's not the oldest and

(26:20):
she's not the youngest. Right.
It's just kinda where she is.
Excellent point. Yeah . It'swho she is in her giftedness.
'cause aunt, aunt Ty's olderthan Aunt Siola , if I remember
correctly. And so , uh, anddefinitely Uncle Wesley's the
oldest. Right. So, so it's notlike ,

Anitra (26:34):
Yeah . Think Uncle Wesley, then Aunt Ola , then

Andre (26:36):
They're Aunta. Okay.
Okay. Yeah. They're

Anitra (26:37):
Aunt many , then dad, then aunt me . Yeah.

Andre (26:40):
So , so you might naturally say to yourself,
well, hey, well, uncle Wesleyshould be the one. Right ? No,
no, no. Absolutely no. Right .
, that's, that's awhole nother episode.
Absolutely. No, that's a wholenother episode. I love, I love
you Uncle Wesley. Uncle Wesley, but absolutely no .
And he'd

Speaker 5 (26:55):
Say that too. He'd be like, I'm not working . And
he would say , right . I ain'tleading his family. I may not
even come .

Andre (27:01):
Right, exactly. So, so, so, yeah. So it's not even
about what's given or what'sexpected of you. It's, it
really is where you're mostgifted. And here's how that
works relationally is , iseverybody, you know, you
mentioned the family dynamicsof dad and, and his siblings,
but everybody as a cornerstone, uh, of understanding

(27:24):
reciprocity, everyone feelsappreciated for who they are.
Yes. Everyone feels affiliatedfor what they bring to the
table. Everyone feels likeequals everyone has the same
status. Everyone feelsrespected and can stand on how
they're gifted. Everyoneunderstands their roles and
their activities, and they arefulfilled when everybody brings

(27:45):
their five to the table. Right.
. And so therefore, aslong as they have all those
things, there's no conflict.
But as soon as you cross one ofthose needs, conflict is going
to arise. Yeah . Um , you, ifyou, as soon as you cross off
respect, conflict, as soon asyou cross off appreciation,
that feeling that you'reappreciated conflict. Yeah . As

(28:07):
soon as you, because you can'thave compromise without all of
those core things. Uh, when itcomes to both negotiating and
learning, the spirit ofreciprocity. 'cause it's, it
really is, at the end of theday, our spirit of
relationship. It's a , it's aspirit of that's good
relationship. And when you haveall these things, all of them,
and all these things reallystart to make sense. You're ,

(28:29):
you're equating how gifted youare, how hard you hustle.
Mm-hmm . , youknow, your anointing, just the
things that you're favored indoing, then watch this. And
every watch, everybody thatbrings something to the table,
all of us improve. Right. Ooh ,people . That's good . People
tell me all the time, Andre,you're a great listener. Well,
where did I do, where did Ilearn that? Listening to Nikki

(28:50):
? No, I'm serious listening toNikki because it helped me
negotiate how , uh, what , whatNick , it helped me both
negotiate and learnreciprocity. It helped me to
learn what I bring to thetable. 'cause I'm listening to
what Nikki brings to the table.
I'm listening to what Nikkineeds. And then because I'm

(29:10):
listening to her and I knowwhat I need, so I'm listening
to what she can do, and I knowwhat I can do. It's a way of
promoting both of us to wherewe need to be. And that's,
that's why so much of ourrelationship is, Nikki , we
going to do this. Not Nikki ,I'm gonna do this. Can you help
Nikki ? We going to do this?
We're gonna do this. And Idon't. I and , and , and , and

(29:31):
here's what's crazy . Like, and, and think about this for a
second. There's somesubconscious level of
reciprocity with us. I don'tthink it's by happenstance that
you chose Tallahassee over NewYork. Nope . Nope . I also
don't think it's byhappenstance that I say, Hey,
we Finn to move from Charlotteto Southern California when

(29:51):
Nikki ended up in la mm-hmm .
. That's good .
None of those things are byhappenstance. It because the
negotiation, the reciprocity,it's a relationship process.
And I think so many people asadults, they fail to be able to
give , uh, and balance givingand taking. They fail to be
able to be in a relationship orreciprocity. Either one,

(30:12):
because they're an only childand they fail at a lot of
things. But then number two, ohno because , so tired
because , um, youdidn't learn the negotiation
process and you started seeingpeople as a stepping stone. Ooh
. Wow. Yeah. And so , yeah. Sowhen all I see is people as a
stepping stone, negotiationswill only take me one step. Ooh

(30:35):
, I hope somebody heard that.
If all I see people as is astepping stone, I'm limited as
to how far I can get insuccess. But when I see people
as a relationship, thennegotiations take a lifetime.
They become, when I see peopleas a relationship or res
reciprocity, now it's alifelong move. 'cause the fact

(30:59):
of the matter is, people willknow if they were your, your
stepping stone or if you orthey were your life's success.
Yeah . And if they feel likeyou stepped on them, so they
feel they've been stepped on,they ain't necessarily going to
be there the next time. Youneed another step. That part.
Right. They're not going to bethere. If you didn't find

(31:21):
common ground to build arelationship, and all you found
was a common step, well thenthat means your giftedness
became , uh, a , a a signal tothem that you're only there to
eat by yourself. You're notthere to make sure that if you
eat, I eat right. So I don'tever feel, anytime I come to

(31:43):
you and say, Nikki , I needhelp. Anytime you come to me
and say, Andre, we let's dothis. I never feel like I'm
being stepped on. I always feellike this is a path towards
both of our success. That's sogood. And because I truly
listen to you mm-hmm .
, I now know thatyou're not saying something
that's just a step. I knowyou're saying this is a

(32:05):
pathway. This was huge,different. I'm not a step.
Mm-hmm . , I'm apathway. A pathway. And it's
because I listened to you. Iknow, I know what you want to
eat before the meal is preparedmm-hmm . . And so
I'm already thinking to myself,well , let me think ahead of
where we are. So that if Nikkisays, Hey , uh, I need, I
let's, we need to do this. Ialready know because I've

(32:27):
studied and I know you and Iknow where you're wanting to go
for both of us. And that waythen, you know, I'm already,
I'm already pre preparingbecause that's really what the
spirit of reciprocity is. It'sa preparation for a purpose
that's taking you to , uh, anarea where you couldn't , uh,
get to , uh, without thisperson. Um, and, and, and so

(32:49):
when I think of the spirit ofreciprocity, when I think of
being able to effectivelydevelop a relationship and
negotiation for someone, it, itreally is about being prepared
so that both of you can eat,both of you can get to where
you're going. I , I've got anexample to that, then I'm gonna
kick it back to you. Uh,Sharonda was flying into town
to come and visit mm-hmm.

(33:09):
. And , uh,Sharonda is typically, Sharonda
is a, and I know she's gonnahear this and call me
immediately. She's a, she's afive Michelin star rated type
of girl. What I mean by that isfor the , those of you who
don't know Michelin ratings,she don't go out to eat unless
it's five star Michelin rated.
Right . . Right . She ,she don't , she don't, she

(33:29):
don't do fast food. She dorestaurants with hor d'oeuvres.
. Like , you look atthe menu and, and it , and it
says hor d'oeuvres and , you know, for the rest of us
try to figure out what is , orDeVare , no , hor Dres
. Right ? So, so she don't do,she don't do anything less than
Michelin star. She's a Michelinstar rated girl. And bless her,

(33:53):
God has blessed her. She's gotthe ability to do that. Right.
. So I love it . But ,but , but, but the way me and
my bank account work , the way my money work ,
, I'm more of a grocery stardude. Right . . I'm
more of a , so , so , so when Iknew she was coming, I had to
think to myself like Uhoh .
Right ? Um , , youknow, I'm thinking to myself,

(34:16):
oh boy, we, we , we gonna haveto go to, we gonna have to go
to this . Like, we haverestaurants here in San Diego.
They're not named afterwhatever the title is on the
front. They're named after theChef . Right . Who
brings the menu . Good . So I'mthinking to myself, oh Lord, we
gonna have to go to Chef'srestaurant or the bank Chef du

(34:37):
mall , you know, down the gaslamp . Like, I'm thinking to
myself. And so I immediatelywas like, mm-hmm . Like my bank
account, like this is going tobe detrimental to my bank
account. , right? So,so, so, so there are times
where you got to negotiate outthe spirit of relationship
saying don't give more thanwhat you got. Right? Yeah .

(34:59):
Come on now , stick within yourgiftedness. And so what I said
to Sharonda was, is Listenbaby, we could go to Chef
Dumond , , , we can do that. I said, but
baby, or what we can do is I,chef Andre can make something
in his small apar and listen, and we can

(35:23):
deepen our ion , youknow , right here in the house,
. Right, right, right,right . Exactly. Right here in
the ca . You know , I was like,so like, and I'm , and I'm
telling you, this is exactlyhow I'm talking . I'm
saying we could just, I'm gonnacook and , and now watch this.
Now Michelin star ratedrestaurants automatically get

(35:45):
her attention. Right . But whattakes her to the next level of
success in the relationship iswe can deepen our ion if I
cook. So she missed the whole,she missed the Michelin stars
and heard Right . themessage, which is the deepen
relion . So, so, so me, butwatch said so, so there , so

(36:07):
the negotiation there is, issimply me saying, all right ,
we can go to this place and themenu's prepared, or I can tap
in what I know about you and Ican make the menu created to
what I knew about you. We comeon, somebody better hear what
I'm just saying. That Yeah .
That's goods , that's thatspirit of reciprocity. I'm,

(36:29):
I'm, listen, I know what Ibring to the table and what and
when I want both of us to eat.
I'm creating a menu based onwhat I know about you. That way
that you gonna bring to thetable your best as well. You
gonna bring to the table andappeal that, that , that makes
me feel like I don't want inlife as well . Mm-hmm . And ,

(36:50):
and , and it's that type ofthing that helps people just
continue life long reciprocitywith you. If all, again, if all
I see you as a stepping stone,then you ain't gonna continue
with me. But when I can say,this is what I bring to the
table, and it's not just forme, it's for us. It's for us to
get better. That's the key.
Yeah. It's for us to go deeper.
It's for us to get to getbetter. Those are life long

(37:15):
reciprocal relationships thatwe need to be building. And not
the selfish stepping stonerelationships. I, I, you know,
that's how negotiations work .
That's how reciprocity where Itell people all the time , uh,
when I used to teach at , uh,at a , uh, the Christian
college here locally, I wouldget these students coming to my
class and, and they'd be like,Dr. Evans, I, I , I enrolled to

(37:38):
take your class. And I waslike, well, why did you enroll
to take my class ? Uh , be bebecause I, I heard what you
bring to the course. I heardwhat you bring. That's good .
That's good To the course.
That's good . And I can't getwhat you bring to the course
anywhere else. So that becomesmy appeal. And so then I give
them what they heard and theygrow and they become better.

(38:02):
And now some of them still comeback to me today. Hey , uh, uh,
professor Evans, anything I cando for your church? Yes. Yeah ,
yeah . You can join us in thisministry and help us out.
'cause I need , and that's,then they bring back to the
table what I brought to helpthem grow. So they're bringing
it back refined and evenbetter. Those are those

(38:24):
lifelong relationships that arebuilt on someone simply saying,
I got five on it. Let's bothget high or go higher.
Whichever one you want. , go higher . Whichever one you
want. And, and , and so don'tmiss the deeper lesson you
learn when it comes to valuinga relationship of reciprocity.
'cause when you understand whatyou bring to the table, you

(38:46):
stop . I told this to,oh my gosh. One more example. I
promise you . Last example,then I'm gonna kick it back to
you before the sponsorship. Uh,what I was, I was talking to ,
uh, uh, Corey , 'cause sherecently turned 18 mm-hmm .
. And she's, andas one of the first things she
wanted to do, turning 18, isshe wanted to go buy some
scratchers. And so we went, forthose of you not from the

(39:08):
Midwest, so scratchers are thelottery tickets where you
scratch off, you know mm-hmm .
different , youknow, to see if you want. So
she wanted to go buyscratchers. And, and, and so
she bought some scratchers. Andtwo of the scratchers hit one
was for $5, one was for anextra ticket. And so I said,
all right , well let's, let's,you know, we'll go, we'll go
take care of that after I pickyou up from school. So we went,

(39:28):
she got her $5 and, and she gother extra ticket. She scratched
off the ticket, wanted an extra$5. And I was like, all right ,
well come on Corey . I see you. I see you . And so, you know,
she , we went back and we gother $5 and she said, get me.
And she said, hit me withanother one of those tickets.
And I said, Corey , you want tokeep your money? She's like, no
, dad, I'm gonna scratch offand I'm gonna win me about

(39:51):
$50,000. And I was like, I knowthat's right girl. And I said ,
when you do win that $50,000,that's gonna pay for your whole
college education. Right.
, like , so you makesure. And she's like, well,
it'll pay for half of it. Isaid, what you mean what you
going to do with the other? Shesaid, watch this. Well , I'm
gonna pay, I'm gonna give theother 20 . I'm gonna give half
of it to Corrine towards hercollege education too. Mm-hmm .

(40:15):
My , my my , and, and , andhere's the thing. I know why
Corey's saying that. Corey'ssaying that because Corey and
Corrine have a life longreciprocal relationship where
they've said, I'm going toschool for this. I'm going to
school for this. We're going tokeep being a blessing to each
other because watch this. Whenwe re when we're ready, we're

(40:37):
gonna open up our own businesstogether. Yeah . Yeah . And so
as long as I keep pouring intoyou now you keep pouring into
me, we're gonna get there a lotfaster. We're gonna get there a
lot sooner than people,partnership . Expect
partnership . So thatpartnership, that relationship,
reciprocity for them startsnow. I'm starts, starts now at

(40:57):
a young age. Yeah . Yeah . Youknow, Corin sent Corey like $50
via Zelle on, on her , uh,birthday. And I'm saying to
myself, Nikki ain't never sentme $50 not for my
birthday. That is now you donesent me $50 for other reasons ,
but not for my birthday.
Birthday . . Wait aminute. I'm lucky if I get a

(41:18):
happy birthday. The text ,right ? Maybe. And if it , and
it might be on the 13th.
Chances are it's on the 14th,on the 15th. Ooh . I forgot.
Happy later . Or , or listen toearly in case I forget. Lemme
Oh , early, right ? In case Iforget , I might , but
Nikki , it's May, it's not evenSeptember. But in case I

(41:38):
forget,

Anitra (41:39):
I know . Just , I'm putting it on the

Andre (41:40):
Books now . .
Right ? Right now. .
But anyways , you know, it'sjust , it's that thing where
Corinne and Cory have , havealready said, no , we Finn to
work on this. Because, becausethat's the deeper lesson.
That's the value ofestablishing a reciprocal
relationship. And I think manyof us are missing that because
we don't know how toeffectively give so that we

(42:03):
build a lifelong relationship.
We give, because it's astepping stone. I'm gonna give
it to you now so you can get mewhere I want. But then I'm
gonna forget about you as soonas I get where I'm going. No, I
got five on it. 'cause we bothgetting high, we both going
higher. Right . , I got, I'm giving. 'cause we both
are getting this. And, and, andthat's, I think that's a huge

(42:25):
thing that, that as adultswe're missing today in a very
selfish society, a very sosociety . Mm-hmm . Um , social
atmosphere where it's, look atme, follow me like me, love me,
see me. But what about us? Yeah. What happened to us? And ,
and , and that's the crazything about where we are. And I

(42:46):
blame part of it. I blamesocial media. 'cause there's no
longer this relationshipinteraction. It's just posts,
, that's all it is .
Just posts, . It's justa post. Like we we're not,
we're not, we're notinteracting the way , uh, that
we should be socially. And sothen we're, we're turning into
this selfish society where, andand , and it's crazy 'cause

(43:08):
we're even talking aboutsiblings. Siblings , uh mm-hmm
. . I I know a ,I know a set of siblings right
now, they don't even talk toeach other. Don't even interact
with each other except for onsocial media. That's not
interacting . I mean , you ,you , that's right . You talk
to your brother. Oh yeah, Italked to him , uh, yeah . On
social media is what they'rereferring to. That's rough.

(43:29):
Yeah. Nah , you ain'tinteracted. And , and so
there's no, there's, there's nogrowing together. There's never
gonna be this moment. Ishouldn't say never, but right
now, there's not this momentwhere their gifts can help you.
Your gifts can help them. Andlet's get, let , come on, let's
get this bread. Let's get thispaper together. I , we out here
struggling in a vacuum. 'causewe don't know how to have a

(43:51):
spirit of reciprocity or arelationship of , of
reciprocity. I'm gonna kick itback to you now.

Anitra (43:57):
Absolutely. No , i, I co-sign everything you said.
And so, speaking of spirit ofreciprocity and what you bring
to the table, we wanna shoutout our sponsor for this
episode, which is SS twoMediaWorks, a media production
company co-founded by mybrother and I. And we bring to
the table this notion ofcreating content that should
educate, empower, inspire,hopefully encourage us all

(44:19):
through positive, you know,living through positive giving
back, and all of this toldthrough original narratives. So
our mission at S two MediaWorks is to provide
transformational education andresources all leading towards
healthy and productive , uh,lifestyles. And we love to do
that through creativestorytelling. We're dedicated
to creating life-changing andlife-giving content and all

(44:41):
that we do. And this, theSavage Siblings podcast is a
product of SS two MediaWorkslineup. We got so many other
things in the canon , uh, frombooks to additional podcasts
that we, we can't wait torelease and share that with
you. And so we're trying ourbest to, to , uh, use our gifts
to bring things to the table toshare with you all. And so, as
always, thank you so much forjoining us for another episode.

(45:03):
And with that, bro , bro ,we've already dug into, I feel
like we already into the , themeat of the savage, but let's
get in the savage segment. Youready to get savage?

Andre (45:12):
Absolutely. Let's, let's get Savage. So again, the name
of the episode is, I've gotfive on it. I got

Anitra (45:22):
Five on

Andre (45:23):
It . And , and I think , uh, what we want to do is just
kind of start with, is kind ofmaybe our definitions and
perspectives individually as towhat reciprocity is for the
individual, right? Mm-hmm.
, pretty much innearly every culture, there is
this process of socialization.
And , and in that process ofsocialization, we, we have to
be taught to share. And we knowthat when we, we all become

(45:46):
better. When we share, we shareknowledge, we share wisdom, we
share technology, we share, youknow, all of these things,
science and math, if we share,we all become better. And we
all have to also learn to taketurns. , right ? Yes .
Right . You're strong here, soit's your turn. We all get a
chance to show our giftednesswhen we do that. And we also

(46:10):
have to learn in oursocialization process to give
back to everyone who gives tous. And that begins to bless
the future generations. And wekind of keep the relationship
going. And so people that justkind of don't learn this as, as
a definition, don't learn thisrule of reciprocity. Right ?

(46:30):
I'm looking at you. Uh, onlychildren, people that
don't learn this rule ofreciprocity. They can only
really try to get better. Andhere's the reason why I say
that. Yeah. Until you learn therelationship that comes with
being , uh, reciprocal, thenyou don't really understand
that your gift is only a giftwhen you give it away for

(46:52):
others to be better. What goodis a gift if you don't give it
for others to be better? Whichmeans I need your gift. Yeah .
Yeah . You need my gift. Yes.
Our gifts are only as good aswe give and receive from
others, right? Because we're,what , what's the end game of

(47:14):
socialization? What's the endgame of a relationship, right ?
Because at some point, thosewho you've given to, they're
gonna come back and give to youand everybody's going higher.
But those people you steppedon, you're gonna realize that
that stone is no longer thereand you can't get any higher.
'cause you have no more stonesto step on. And so at the, at

(47:37):
the core there, the reason whywe give is is is because the
relationship gets us better. Wedon't want to be ashamed or
ostracized if we don't learnhow to and kind of integrate
this rule of reciprocity intoour, our social behavior into
who we are. So, so for me, thecore definition of this
relationship and reciprocityis, is I'm gifted. You're

(47:58):
gifted. Let's give our giftstogether mm-hmm.
and let's get higher . So forme, that's kind of like, that's
where I start when it comes tounderstanding reciprocity. I've
got a gift, I got a gift , yougot a gift, I need your gift.
Mm-hmm . , let'sgive together and let's get ,
and let's get a little higher.
That, that for me is where Istart in terms of definition.
How about for you?

Anitra (48:18):
That's good. I love it.
Um, I think about it as theflow of, of energy or flow of
effort. Oh, that's good. Andunderstanding that it has to be
in both directions. And thereason why that flow of energy
and effort must be bothdirections is because the goal
is to make sure that the otherperson feels valued and or
loved. Right? Like obviously inwork environments or

(48:39):
professional environments, it'smore about the value, right?
And then in relationships, it'sthe value and the love, right .
Of how those can beinterchangeable, right ? And
so, yeah, I had somethingsimilar in terms of this, the
art of I give you give we give,right ? And it really is all
three of those. It cannot beone or the other. It has to be
I'm giving, you're giving andwe are giving. And when I was

(49:00):
kind of processing this, itmade me think about one of the
core , uh, techniques inacting, specifically
improvisation. That when you goto an improv class or you go to
, um, you know, whether it's acommunity class or you're
training it in school , uh, oneof the first principles of of
improvisation that they teachyou is this principle called
Yes. And okay. And it's the,it's the mindset of when I step

(49:24):
into this space and we're gonnaget some sort of concept that
we have to basically jump intoa free expression and I'm
working with one other personor a whole group of people, you
have to make up in your mindthat one, you're going to say
yes, yes. Means that's good,that's good. I'm going to
receive whatever this, this mycounterpart, my acting partner,

(49:45):
right ? Uh , this team ofactors across from me are going
to give, so if they start ascene that's , uh, sensual in
nature, and I, and I anitra ,I'm uncomfortable with that.
No, no, no. In improv, you sayyes, that means you're gonna ,
you're gonna accept whatthey're presenting to you
because you're gonna go on thejourney. Got it . And then the
follow part falling part tothat is, and now I'm going to
add something to it. So I don'tjust stand there and just

(50:06):
receive , I love it. And justsay, okay, I'll, I'll play ,
play along with everything love. I now have to give you
something uniquely from mycreative energy to add , add to
the flow of the improvisationof the scene , the work that
we're doing. And that's how webuild these really amazing
moments and improv. And so Ithink what the core of
reciprocity has to teach us,just piggybacking off of that
example, is you really do haveto learn both sides of it. You

(50:29):
do, you have to learn, givingand receiving. And for some of
us, one side or the other mightbe easier , right? Some
people can receive all day.
They just like, yep , this isgood. Keep it coming. Right,
right , right. And they have towork harder at learning to
give, whereas other people are,it's easier to give, it just
comes natural

Andre (50:46):
For you. Right . Just very natural.

Anitra (50:47):
A natural giver. Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm . And then you can,
you have to work at receiving.
That's it . I remember our mom,and this happened years ago.
She , um, it was at a timewhere I think I may have told
this story before, but it wasjust life changing for me.
'cause it was teaching meunderstanding the way that she
wanted to give. She loved tobuy things for me. And this was
before I was married and hadkids mm-hmm. and

(51:09):
I would be looking at all thestuff that she needed to buy
for herself. Right,

Andre (51:12):
Right, right.

Anitra (51:13):
But it didn't matter that she needed to buy it for
herself. Instead it was, oh, Iwanna get this for Nikki . And
I got it. Got to a point whereI was really frustrated where I
was just like, stop buying methings . Go buy this, go do
this. And I remember our momlooking at me , Dre, and she
had tears in her eyes. Mm . Andshe just basically said, why
won't you let me, you know,give you these things. Mm-hmm .
. Mm-hmm .
. Uh , becauseit's the way that I, in

(51:34):
essence, express love. And Inever knew that. But that's
what , what it comes down to.
Reciprocity sometimes for thoseof us that are natural givers ,
uh, which is what I am , uh,it's so easy for us to push
back. Yeah. It's so easy for usto say, no, no, no, no. I don't
need it. I'm good. You keep it,you keep it. 'cause I, we want
to show love or show value, youknow, in a way of giving. But
in order to really get theimportance of I got five on it,

(51:57):
you can't be the only onepaying for it all the

Andre (51:59):
Time. You cannot, you cannot,

Anitra (52:00):
Like people want to put five on it and you gotta let
them put five on it. Right.
Absolutely. And thenAbsolutely. You have to also
contribute your five there too.
And so I think when I was justsimply breaking it down, it's,
I give you give we give andthen understanding. Yes. And in
reciprocity . Absolutely.
Absolutely. Yes. I receive thisand this is what I can and can
bring. And I'm sure we'llunpack that a little bit more.

(52:21):
But that's my foundational

Andre (52:23):
And, and you actually started going into how we learn
reciprocity, because you dohave to learn. Mm-hmm .
, it took me awhile to learn to receive.
Like, I have no problem giving.
I , I , I , it was easy for meto learn to give within my
means. So I, I , you know , Ididn't, growing up the way we
grew up, you know , we didn'thave a million dollars. You
learn real quick to give withinyour means because , you know,

(52:46):
not only can I say I got fiveon it, but I also can say, I
ain't got that. I ain't got it.
I ain't got it. Right . I knowhow to say both. But what I had
to learn is two things out ofthat. Number one, I had to
learn the creativity of a , Imay not have this, but I got
this. And, and , and , and ,and so it's not always about
the money. Sometimes it's aboutthe hustle. Sometimes that's

(53:09):
why we mentioned that earlier.
Yeah . Sometimes it's aboutjust simply where you are
gifted and anointed and, andwhen you figure that out, yeah.
It becomes easy to give. Butyou also have to learn how to
receive. So, so in learning,reciprocity is both sides. So
I'm like you, Nick, I had tolearn, and, and I'm gonna tell
you the , the way I had tolearn that I didn't learn it
until I started pastoring. Oh .

(53:31):
Because this is an area wherepe and , and this is what's
crazy, like mom, the pastor'smentality is, is no, I gotta
take care of you. I gotta takecare of you. I gotta take care
of you. Well, how do I takecare of you? Well, I got , I
gotta give you the word. I'vegotta teach, I've gotta make
myself available to counsel ,to pray. And I was doing that.
And so that's what I wasbringing to the table where I

(53:53):
had to learn to receive is thenfolk were just saying, let me
buy you dinner. Here's somemoney. And I kept saying , no,
no, no, no. Don't worry aboutit . No , no, no. And, and, and
it got to a point where oldladies was like, you blocking
my blessing. And I was that part . Don't do it .
. And , and , and whenI tell you, when I tell you
they were saying that they weredead serious. 'cause God told ,

(54:14):
they were like, you are right.
You are stopping God fromblessing me. Yeah . Yeah . And
that was a tough lesson tolearn. And so it didn't, and ,
and so what it has to translateinto is as you're a giver,
yeah. You gotta learn toreceive. You , you don't learn
to, you don't get it to thepoint where you become to be
nothing but a taker. But yougotta learn how to balance

(54:37):
giving and receiving if youreally want people to grow ,
uh, in this process as well.
Uh, because we, we listen, we,we have to , uh, uh, understand
that part of people bringcoming to the table and saying,
I got this. I got this. It's'cause they're trying to avoid
being considered a freeloaderor a parasite. Yes . Because

(54:59):
you can't grow. And, and here'sthe thing I'm gonna say next.
You also have to learn to stopgiving away free samples. I , I
wanna make sure somebody heardthat , that's gonna
steam , that's gonnaRight. See when all you know
how to do is give, you'rebecoming that person that gives
away free samples. Mm-hmm . Andwe can you that person because

(55:22):
you're not letting people giveback. So you're just giving
what, what's really valuableabout you. Yeah. You're giving
free samples, but it needs tobe a give and take process.
Yeah. And that way then if ,because if you're not careful
and you become known as the onealways giving free samples,
then you become the one easilymanipulated. You become the one

(55:46):
walked on. People be coming upwith you as a salesperson
talking about this is a gooddeal. All you need to do is no
. You find yourself giving outa sense of obligation and
giving out of sense of , uh,and you don't even know you're
being used because you've givenaway free samples for so long.
Listen, no . What you got, whatyou bring to the table has

(56:09):
value. It is value adding andpeople need to give back
valuable as well. They mustbring value to the table as
well. And I'm gonna say equalvalue, but I'm not, not talk ,
talking monetary. Right. Right.
I might, you might, you mightbring $5 to the table, but I
know the $5 plug, right.

(56:30):
. Right . You know whatI'm saying? So I'm still
bringing something to thetable. Um, you know, but, but
it's, it's so I'm not talkingmoney, but you gotta learn to
let people bring equal value tothe table. And you do that by
learning to trust your judgmenton who you going to partnership
with, who you going in arelationship with. I trust

(56:51):
Nikki explicitly meaning itwouldn't matter what you said
you're bringing to the table. Ialready know it's worth
millions. I'm going to trustthe process. That's so good .
And , and learning to trust ourjudgment. Uh, when it comes to
distinguishing, you know, issomeone bringing to the some
table something that's, that'sgenerous, that's genuine? Or

(57:13):
are they bringing somethingthat's designed to activate
this obligatory giving from me?
That part . We gotta learn thatpart. We have to. 'cause you
know, people will, will baityou or, or shame you into
giving people will guilt youinto giving. People will, I've
been guilted to bringing stuffto the table and I had to learn
the hard way. And I learn , Ihad to learn. No , uh, like I

(57:37):
had to learn. Nah , I ain't gotit. Whole sentence . I , I had
to learn. No matter of fact,matter of fact, right. No is a
whole sentence . Andyou know what, it's not only a
whole sentence, it's, it's, no, it's, it's in nine , nine
different languages. Like younine . What I'm saying , like I
, and , and that's the thing.
And, and , and that's thething. You gotta be okay

(58:00):
learning that this relationshipisn't reciprocal. So my
answer's no, I'm not bringinganything to this table. I'm not
going to do it because I'm nolonger naive. I'm no longer
overly trusting, but I'm alsonot overly mistrusting. I had
to learn the relationship ofreciprocity. And we all do.
Yeah. A lot of the learning isjust information, knowledge,

(58:22):
understanding , uh, becauseI'm, I'm gonna give an example
about, of , about learning andknowledge of, of yourself, know
who mm-hmm . youare and what you're bringing to
the table. That way then youdon't miss out on opportunities
and you don't get yourself adead end opportunities. I'm
bringing an example , uh, that,that , uh, that, that helps,
that helps you understand whatyou gotta know about yourself.

(58:43):
Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm.
, uh, I rememberbeing in , uh, Charlotte just
fresh out of college and I wasrenting this town home . And ,
uh, the town home was great. I,I enjoyed the town home , but
the owner of the town homewanted to sell the property, no
longer wanted to be in realestate management. Mm-hmm.
. And so thereal, the the leasing company

(59:05):
says to me, Hey, we , we can'thonor the , your lease beyond
this. And because the owner'sselling. And she said to me, do
you wanna buy the town home ?
And I immediately said, no. Andthe reason why I said no,
because I thought all I wasbringing to the table was
money. Mm . What I didn't knowabout myself is that I could

(59:26):
have brought credit Yeah . Tothe table. Somebody better hear
what I just said. There's a ,because I didn't know that
about myself. I missed theopportunity to build wealth
through real estate because Ididn't trust my judgment.
Mm-hmm. myjudgment couldn't trust the
table itself. So it's not justwhat you bring to the table. Do

(59:50):
you trust the table? What doyou know about the table? Yeah
. I thought it was about money.
'cause nobody taught me how tonegotiate my credit. Right . So
I had to learn that my judgmentwas never about me. Yeah. It
was about also the table. Good. And therefore, ooh , I'm
about to say something when itcomes to the relationship of
reciprocity. Don't leteverybody come to the table you

(01:00:12):
about to eat on. Ooh . Teach.
And , and it sucks becauseoftentimes it's not until you
reflect after the fact that youbecome more able to accurately
discern your table. Right .
Right . So , but , youknow, learn yourself now. Yeah
. So that you're prepared forwhatever table's presented ,
uh, to you. 'cause even afteryears of experience and

(01:00:35):
discernment, there's likelygoing to be times where you're
going to have to judge thetable and you don't want to
misjudge the table. Yeah. Wemight misjudge other people's
intentions. Mm-hmm .
. But if youdon't misjudge the table, then
you could say, no , you ain'tgot no seat here. .
Right . I'm sorry, you ain'tgot no seat here. You thought
you did. If I know the tableRight. Right. I know you, I

(01:00:56):
look , I know the , I know theMaer D called Jon name . Right
. But it wasn't at areservation at , at this table.
. Right . .
Right . So maybe it's , seethat's the thing, if I know
right, right . If I know thetable, then I know who to sit
down and break bread with atthe table. So sometimes the
relationship of reciprocity isknow your table. Yeah. Before

(01:01:17):
you know who to bring to yourtable. That's good. Because not
everybody's gifts can sit atthe table. The opportunity that
that, that you have. Uh , butagain, that's, that's, that's
kind of how we learn . We gottacultivate a keener sense of
your table. A keener sense ofother people's motivation. You
gotta cultivate in order tobecome more mindful of your own

(01:01:38):
self, what you bring to thetable, your own consciousness.
And sometimes unconsciousness.
'cause sometimes we jump at atable 'cause it looks good, but
we don't , we don't know ityet. Um, but you gotta, you ,
you gotta learn how tocultivate what knowledge,
cultivate the relationship.
Cultivate therefore you , youcan trust and have better,
better judgment. And you getrid of those impulses to give.

(01:02:01):
And without getting, because animpulse drove you , uh, you
know, what are, to me, some,some basic, you know , uh,
questions you gotta askyourself. And I hope this helps
somebody. And , and learning ,uh, how to learn a
relationship. Reciprocity is ,do you have any expectations of
reciprocity? Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm.
, like, you know,what are , what are your
expectations? Will you bedisappointed, resentful, or

(01:02:24):
hurt or feel bad if they don'tbring everything they need to
bring to the table? Sure. Yeah. Uh, are you, are you letting
go of what you are bringing tothe table? Or are you holding
on because you feel like youhave a right on the way? It
influences the way it impacts.
I gotta control what I bring tothe table. 'cause I need to
control how we be better. Or,and we've said this before, is

(01:02:46):
it obligatory? Why you'regifting, why you're giving.
'cause you feel obliged orshamed . Mm-hmm .
or you feel pressured, you haveto do it . Yeah . Or you feel
guilted into doing it. So, soto me, those are some of the
ways we learn , uh,reciprocity.

Anitra (01:03:02):
What's up Savage Siblings? I hope you guys are
enjoying this discussion aboutthe art of fair partnership and
reciprocity. Not to mentionlearning how to negotiate in
those spaces, which I learnedeffectively in dealing with my
own brother. Y'all know how heis . Siblings, y'all know we
teach each other the importanceof reciprocity. So this episode

(01:03:24):
digs a lot deeper into healthyreciprocity, transactional
relationships, the pros andcons of learning when to give
more and when to ask for more.
So we get deep. You guys, I sohope you're gonna join us next
time for part two of, I gotfive on it. I didn't sound
really good when I say that,but you know what I mean. I've
got five on it. Part two iscoming at you. You don't wanna

(01:03:46):
miss the transformationalperspective, the quick shot.
Andre's final Blow. So asalways, thank you so much for
joining us for part one. Pleasehelp us build the Savage
siblings community. We need youguys to like, to share, to
comment, leave a review,subscribe and send this to your
favorite Savage sibling. Shareyour thoughts on how you learn

(01:04:09):
the art of negotiation, maybefrom your siblings, right? I
know I did. We wanna hear aboutit. A huge shout out to the
amazing team of people who makethis all possible. Dwayne
McClendon, Kyle Davis, oursound editors. Ronnie Maxwell
of Maxwell Music. He's ourmusic producer. Keith Cross of
K Cross Photography for theamazing photos, our parents for

(01:04:32):
their d n a and all the funnylife lessons. And of course,
you the listeners, we are soglad you guys are rocking with
us. So we are gonna see younext time. And remember, don't
go through life alone. Takecare.