July 2, 2024 • 32 mins
Unlock the secrets to effective communication with your partner as we sit down with Sherry Timko, an expert couple's relationship coach. Misunderstandings could be at the root of many of your arguments, but what if simple changes in the way you communicate could resolve them? Learn how to articulate your thoughts clearly and how over-communicating can foster greater understanding.
Ever wondered why your partner seems to hear something completely different from what you said? We dissect communication into four key stages: what you think, what you say, what your partner hears, and how they interpret it. Cheri discusses the complexities introduced by cultural backgrounds, personality traits, and personal experiences. By anticipating and recognizing these barriers, you can develop strategies to prevent conflicts and build healthier communication habits, like choosing the right moments to talk and understanding your partner's emotional triggers.
Discover how the principles from professional communication can be seamlessly integrated into your personal life. Inspired by James Clear's "Atomic Habits," we delve into practices like summarizing conversations for clarity and setting clear intentions. Cheri also reveals the advantages of her communication course, emphasizing that improved interactions lead to better problem-solving and relationship security. For continuous growth, join her "Date Night Community" Facebook group and visit CheriTimko.com for more resources. Get ready to transform your relationship through the power of effective communication!
This is a show where ideas come together. The guest statements expressed on The Savvy Communicator Podcast are their own and not necessarily the views of The Savvy Communicator.
Thanks for joining us! Become part of the conversation at www.savvycommunicator.com, and follow me on social media: my handle is @savvycommunicator.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello and welcome to the Savvy Communicator podcast.
Today we'll be exploring thefour parts of communication that
allow you to talk so that yourpartner can hear you.
Our expert guest is SherryTimko, who teaches several
different courses oncommunication, relationship
healing and dating your way outof roommate syndrome.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Hello, Sherry, welcome to the show.
Oh, thank you so much forhaving me today.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
You are a couple's relationship coach and one of
the things you specialize in ishow to talk so that your partner
will hear you.
And that sounds reallyimportant to me as far as
communication goes, because Iagree, certainly, that we think
a lot of the times you say, well, if I'm talking, the other
person is not only listening,but they're understanding what I
(00:46):
have to say and that's probablynot what's going on.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
What's your perspective on that?
Even when people speak the samelanguage, even when they come
from very similar backgrounds,they often are speaking just
slightly differently, and thatcan be as simple as having
different meanings of differentwords or having different
interpretations of a word.
So, you know, you might saysomething like oh, one of my
(01:16):
favorites, clean up after dinner.
Clean up after dinner can mean,you know, clear off the table
and put the food in the fridge.
Or it can mean wipe off thetable, sweep the kitchen floor,
do the dishes, fill the you know, empty and fill the dishwasher
and wipe down the countertop.
So even something as simple asyou know, clean up after dinner
(01:44):
can have vastly differentinterpretations.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Yeah, you're just making me think of.
A couple weeks ago I had kindof you know, a tangle with a
colleague over words, in that Iwas, you know, trying to do one
thing, he was trying to do theexact same thing, and we were
just like, no, that's not whatI'm saying, we have to do it,
(02:09):
you know, this way.
And it's like, well, why do wehave to do it that way if it
accomplishes it this way?
Well, that's not what I meant.
That kind of thing, yeah, youknow that can really make you
angry.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Well, when you add the element of living with that
person and having an intimateconnection with them, it just
ramps all of that up and canmake it really intense.
So this is how couples can getinto arguments over you know,
the most, seemingly smallestdetail in life, and they will
(02:45):
potentially fight to the deathabout it, whereas maybe in
another situation I'd be like ohyou know, I don't really care
how you keep your own tube oftoothpaste and whether you roll
it up from the bottom or not.
Tubes, you know when you haveto see it and it just that can
make it seem like maybe youdon't have the same values or
(03:09):
maybe you don't live the same inthe world, and it just becomes
the symbol of everything else inthe relationship.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
Yeah, my husband, who is great, and I have very
different perceptions on a lotof things, especially how to
clean the house, and that he'svery precise and I'm kind of the
Tasmanian devil, so and hewould say things like, can you
fold the laundry today?
And I said, all right, I wouldfold the laundry and then I
would place it, you know, on thedresser or the bed.
(03:40):
And he would come in and belike, why is this out here?
I'm like, well, you said, foldthe laundry.
He's like, but aren't you goingto put it away?
And I was like, yeah, you know,I'll get to that.
And we've done a lot of work onbeing able to say I need to
know this fully.
Even if it seems weird toexplain it to me, please do,
(04:02):
because obviously I'm notpicking up what you're putting
down.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Yeah.
And couples have the addedelement that when they are
really comfortable with eachother, they actually talk in
half sentences, half thoughts.
So he said fold the laundry.
You're like I can literallyfold the laundry, I have no
problem folding the laundry.
And if he had said canliterally fold the laundry, I
(04:26):
have no problem folding thelaundry.
And if he had said, fold thelaundry and put it away, you
would have been like I can foldthe laundry and put it away.
That's my problem, like noteven a big deal.
But because he said fold thelaundry and didn't say the rest
of his thought, you were arguingthat you did exactly what he
asked and he's saying, but youdidn't do what I asked, right,
(04:46):
Yep, that was exactly it.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
So I know you work with a lot of couple.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
But if you had to generalize what people come to
you for initially their chiefcomplaint or their primary worry
or things like that what wouldyou say is kind of generally
what people come in for Mostpeople, most couples, will come
and work with me because theyhave communication issues and
(05:15):
they'll talk aboutmisunderstanding each other, or
their partner doesn't get them,or they take it wrong, or their
communication will escalate.
And then you know all bets areoff and they're into an argument
.
And I know that communicationissues also is related to
(05:38):
solving problems and that itoften can translate into either
too intense so arguing orsilence and disconnection.
So when they come to me andthey're like we have
communication issues, I'm likeokay, so which direction are you
going in?
What is your version of notbeing able to communicate with
(06:00):
each other?
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
So what are some of the techniques for being able to
talk so that your partner willhear?
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Well, there are a lot of them and the trick is to
find the tools that work bestfor you and your partner.
In general, fully communicating, or what might feel like over
communicating, is the best wayto kind of figure out how to
bridge that, and then you'llstart to see what actually works
(06:33):
.
So over communicating means ifI say something and you give me
a reaction, I'm gonna like pauseand be like okay, what did I
just say?
And give the full thought.
Or it's going to be saying,okay, what'd you hear?
All right, let me fill in therest of that.
(06:54):
So just communicating much moreclearly and not expecting your
partner to be able to fill inthe blanks.
The other tool that works reallywell is to do a little bit of
meta-communication.
The meta-communication iscommunication about how you
communicate, and that would belike stopping and saying, okay,
(07:18):
what's going on for you, or whatdid you just interpret me to
have said?
Or when I say this, how doesthat hit you?
And just talk about kind of therules around how you
communicate.
A lot of couples have triggersand they don't really pay much
(07:39):
attention to them.
A trigger is anything that yousay that will set off a reaction
in your spouse, and that can bewhether you mean to say it or
you don't mean to say it.
It's just the recognition thatit does set off a reaction in
your spouse and then decidingnot to say it.
(08:00):
That way, if you can saysomething 20 different ways, you
don't have to say it in a waythat's going to trigger a
negative reaction in your spouse.
You could just say it adifferent way.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Do you find a lot of people are resistant, either at
first or through the process?
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Well, a lot of people come to me because they're
already in a lot of discomfortor pain, so they're usually
willing to try some new things,and one of the things that I
often will tell clients is thatif you feel uncomfortable, that
may mean that we're on the righttrack, because staying in your
(08:38):
comfort zone is what's notworking for you.
So even if you try somethingand it's an abysmal failure and
you're like, oh, that wasterrible, that didn't work at
all.
At least we tried something new.
That then will help you get outof that comfortability that
just keeps everything goingexactly the same way.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
When we talked earlier, we talked a little bit
about the four parts ofcommunication.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Yeah, I heard.
Take us through that.
Yeah, I heard this frameworkrecently and really liked it.
I've been talking about it alot with clients.
I'd love to credit the personwho originally came up with it,
but I can't seem to find thecredit for it.
But it's this idea that thereare four parts to communication.
The first part is what youthink in your head, so it's like
(09:31):
what you mean to say when yousay something.
The second part is what youactually say.
Now, if you think back toconversations and you hear your
partner say what they think yousaid and you're like no, no,
that's not what I meant, youknow that there's a real
disconnect between like what wethink and then what we actually
(09:54):
say, the words we actuallychoose.
The third part is what ourpartner hears.
Now, this is an interestingpart of communication because we
all know that our partner isnot sitting around wondering
what we're thinking, trying tohear us most of the time Like
(10:18):
logically, we know that they arehaving their own thoughts and
they're doing their own thing.
They're engaged with their ownstuff.
They might even be thinkingthat we're listening for them,
but really couples are busydoing other things.
So when we start to talk.
When we're talking, our partneris listening, hopefully.
(10:40):
Or they're distracted or youknow, maybe they didn't even
catch the fact that we hadstopped talking to the dog and
are now talking to them.
So the third part is what theyactually hear, and that can be
100% of what we said, that couldbe 50% of what we said, that
(11:00):
could be 10% of what we said.
And then the fourth part is howthey interpret what they hear,
and that interpretation can bebased on what you actually said.
That interpretation can bebased on history of what you've
said, that what they interpretcould be part of what they grew
(11:24):
up with or how they look at theworld.
So that interpretation canreally be very different than
what you meant, what you said,and even very different than
what you meant yeah okay, so anyof those four parts can go
wrong in communication I'm justletting that digest.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
That's really true and makes it so much more
complex.
I I think and I kind ofmentioned this before that with
communication there's a quotethat's been attributed to a lot
of different people, but it saysthe most important thing about
communication is making sure ithas occurred, being sure that
(12:06):
it's actually happened, becauseso many times we're talking at
people and we say, well, ofcourse you understand this, I
understand this, so of courseyou do too, and then it's a
shock when they don't.
So I really like your four partof communication and it's
really taking into accountculture and sort of
(12:26):
acknowledging that we all growup in a different culture, that
sort of individual to ourself,and that that has to be taken
into account.
I think that's really importantthat you do that.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Yeah, it will color everything.
It'll color how you think abouta problem, it'll color what you
say about a problem and itdefinitely will color what you
hear and how you interpret that.
And you said culture, which isabsolutely a big piece of it,
but also personality andpersonal experience will color
(13:03):
how you say things and how youhear things say things and how
you hear things.
That's why couples who even arevery, very similar in their
background they're likely tohave communication issues.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
What.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
I think is interesting is that sometimes
the couples who are more similar, the impact of communication
issues is actually greater thanif they come from very different
backgrounds.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Really.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Because when you are very different from your spouse,
you expect them to not get it.
You're going to say a lot moreand you're going to expect to
have to negotiate a lot moreabout how to live.
When people grow up and it'svery similar sometimes they
think well, you should know whatI'm thinking because you're
(13:56):
similar, and so they minimizethe impact.
They minimize those differencesin a way that then makes those
problems bigger.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Yeah, it takes a lot of effort, doesn't it?
It can.
Yeah you have to want it, but,like you said, when people are
coming to you, they probablyalready want it very much,
because they need help.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
I think there's a habit element to this, and when
you set up good habit in yourrelationship, we think about
habits as individual, but wealso have couple habits and we
have relationship habits, and sohow you set up those
(14:44):
communication habits is going tothen like then you just do what
that habit is.
So if your habit is to get theother person's attention and say
, hey, is this a good time totalk?
And I have something importantto tell you, can I you know, is
this a good time to tell you?
And then you tell them well,that's going to set that
(15:07):
communication up for much betterunderstanding.
Or if your habit is to say,okay, I'm not just going to have
this whole conversation in myhead, I'm going to have this
with my spouse and actually getthem to talk back with me, then
you're going to have a muchbetter understanding of what
(15:30):
they're thinking, rather thanguessing what their part of the
conversation is.
So, yes, it does take effort tocommunicate, but it also you
can minimize that effort bycommunicating in a way that
actually fits with yourpartner's communication and then
having good habits around those.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
Yeah, that's so true and that really resonates with
me.
I know one of the things thatmy husband and I have worked out
is that I can't come in and saythe words we need to talk,
because, you know, that sort ofsends him into worrying about
things.
So I have to do exactly whatyou said.
I said you know I have somethings to tell you.
(16:16):
Is this a good time?
And he'll say you know what I'mfocusing on this?
Can it wait till later yet orno, it really needs to be now,
and you know it makes a world ofdifference.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
That's a really good trigger to have.
On your list of things.
You can ask to have aconversation in 20 different
ways.
You know that for your husband,saying we need to talk about
something is going to be anegative trigger, and so you
need to just say it in adifferent way.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
Yeah, we had to work that out because I was coming in
and saying, hey, we need totalk, because we did need to
talk, and he would be like what,what is it, what is it?
And he would be like what, whatis it, what is it?
And you know, finally I waslike what's going on with you?
Why does this concern you?
And he's like I just hate thosewords.
It makes me worry thatsomething's going to happen.
(17:08):
And I'm like okay, I didn'tthink of that and you know,
working it out makes it so mucheasier.
Now I'm more relaxed and he'smore relaxed too.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Yeah, absolutely, and that is the goal to be more
relaxed with your partner.
Another good communicationrelationship habit would be to
sum up the conversation at theend and make sure that you're
both on the same page, or verysimilar to that is to confirm
(17:38):
that you actually have anagreement or a plan.
Sometimes couples will just betalking about a bunch of
different things and one partnerleaves thinking that, okay, we
have a plan, I'm ready to go,and the other one thinks that
they were just kind of likeshooting the breeze, throwing
out some ideas, and you knowthey would get to a plan at some
(17:58):
point, but they haven't quitegotten there yet.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Yeah, yeah, I can see that a lot.
It's so interesting that youuse the word habit instead of
anything else.
Is there a reason why you chosethat particular word?
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Yeah, this concept of relationship habit has really
resonated with me in a lot ofways.
If you think about the rest ofyour life, we develop habits
around all sorts of things andautomate so many parts of our
lives.
But then when it comes to ourrelationship, we can be really
(18:32):
lazy about those habits.
We're thoughtless about themand they're still very powerful.
They're just a habit that'screated by two people rather
than an internal solo habit, andwe have all kinds of
relationship habits from saying,you know, from the things that
(18:55):
we do first thing in the morning, whether that's snuggling with
our spouse for a few minutesbefore getting up or saying good
morning when both of us arefinally up, to having a cup of
coffee and having a few minutesto talk about things, to saying
goodbye and having some sort ofintimate connection then, or
(19:16):
checking in about each other'sday, to the communication that
you have throughout the day,maybe whether it can be texts,
it can be phone calls, to howyou say hello at the end of the
day, to eating dinner together,to spending time like saying
goodnight, like there are somany places where having just a
(19:38):
very short intentional habitthere becomes a point of
connection.
And the more points ofconnection that you have, the
more safe your relationshipfeels and therefore your
communication is easier.
There's not so much pressure onsaying everything exactly right
(20:00):
because you feel close andconnected through these
relationship habits.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Yeah, I really like that choice of word.
It's interesting.
I just read the book AtomicHabits by James Clear and you
were talking about Bullet Eater,sort of going over the
conversation at the end, makingsure that everybody's on the
same page, ready to do the samething.
And he does the same thing inhis book, in that he'll write a
chapter and then at the endthere are bullet points to go
(20:28):
over and be like remember, sothere's this and this and this
that we talked about, and Ithought that's really amusing
and cool that you do the samething.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Isn't it amazing that we have these kind of
communication tools that we useat work or with others out in
the world, but then we get homeand we don't practice them?
Now there's a good reason whywe don't.
The reason is that we relaxwith our partners.
Okay, now, this is a good thingLike I want people to relax
(21:03):
with their partner, with theirspouse but when you relax, then
you stop intentionallycommunicating.
You stop thinking about everyword that you say and how you
say it, thinking about everyword that you say and how you
say it.
So the bridge to that is thatif you have some good
relationship habit, some goodcommunication habits in place,
(21:25):
then you relax, but you're stillusing these habits that keep
communication working in apositive way.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
Yeah, okay, I get it.
I get it, yeah, because whenyou come home, you want to kind
of shrug off the day and nothave to do the things you were
doing all day, which is thinkingabout communication.
How am I going to say this?
How am I going to talk to myboss, how am I going to talk to
my staff, or whatever it is, andkind of having to tiptoe a
(21:53):
little bit throughout that, andyou don't want to do that when
you get home.
That makes so much sense.
That makes so much sense.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
The good news is, most of these will work both at
work and at home.
Really, I mean, if you're usedto saying to people at work, hey
, is this a good time to talk toyou?
I need to go through a fewthings with you that's very easy
to use at home.
If you start using that at home, that's also a wonderful tool
(22:23):
to use at work.
So once you get into goodcommunication habits, you
probably can relax in bothenvironments.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
True, I guess the first thing that flashed into my
mind when you said that it's agreat thing at work is I thought
well, there's so many people.
You know I got a littleoverwhelmed for a second,
thinking that so many people,that so many different types of
habits that I have to build, youknow, is it even possible?
I just thought about the numberof people at a job, but I'm
(22:57):
sure it's possible with yourtechniques.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
Well, is the other one about summing up the
conversation at the end of theconversation.
That's also going to work withmost of your colleagues.
In fact, many of them will liketo know okay, did we reach an
agreement?
Are we all on the same pagehere?
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
And then move off into your day and be able to
know whether that was anactionable conversation or a
brainstorming conversation.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
You said an interesting conversation or a.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
A actionable conversation.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Actionable.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
Or a brainstorming conversation.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Okay, yeah, I like that too, because those are both
positive words.
So you're not saying it's a badthing that we didn't make a
decision here, we just want tobrainstorm it, yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
Now that I think about it, remember when the
pandemic started and everyonewas saying now we know what
could have been an email versusa meeting.
Yes, think that that may be thecrossing.
(24:16):
The like, miscommunication ofmany, many meetings is half the
people might walk in thinking,all right, we're coming up with
a plan, we're going to leavewith an actionable plan, and
half are walking in saying, allright, we need to brainstorm
this, come up with a bunch ofdifferent solutions and then
(24:37):
process whether those solutionsare going to work.
There's another place for beingclear on what that intention is
, for that meeting wouldcompletely change whether people
find it helpful or whether theythink it's a waste of time.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
Yeah, I just flashed on this joke.
Talking about meetings, thereis a.
William Goldman was a Hollywoodscreenwriter.
He wrote the Princess Bride andhe said that he attended so
many meetings that he thoughtthere should be an Academy Award
for meetings Because it wouldbe best original meeting, best
meeting based on material from aprevious meeting.
(25:15):
You know that kind of thing.
It just makes me laugh everysingle time.
Wow that's great Because, yeah,we've kind of gone back into the
same habit of meeting in personwherever we can, or virtually,
but there's still a lot offace-to-face that maybe we don't
need.
So, sherry, to wrap up ourconversation, which I have been
(25:39):
thoroughly enjoying, what aresome of the positive benefits
that people find if they aretaking your course on
communication?
What do you see happening afterpeople finish the course?
Speaker 2 (25:52):
Well, once I work with couples whether it's I work
with couples in a variety ofdifferent ways, whether it's I
work with couples in a varietyof different ways One is that
I'm a couples psychotherapistand so I do one-on-one couples
therapy with them, and then Ialso have a program through my
coaching and then I have somefree materials.
(26:13):
So the thing that pulls throughall of them is being able to see
a cycle, see how two people areinteracting and see the part
that needs to be adjusted sothat they can communicate better
.
(26:34):
So one of the things that I saya lot is that nobody needs a
personality overhaul in order tomake their relationship work.
We need to find the places wherethings are getting tricked up,
where there's some rough spot,and then figure out what the
workaround is.
So a lot of the work that I dois kind of figuring out how to
(26:57):
make two different personalitiesfit together in a way that they
live well together.
So at the end of the work whenI work with couples, they often
are communicating much moreclearly, they're more at ease
with each other, they're able toenjoy each other the time that
they spend with each other, theyare able to solve problems
(27:21):
better together and so they justcan feel more at ease and
comfortable with each other onthat day-to-day basis.
So there's a lot of benefits toworking on your primary
relationship and in a lot ofways that will trickle out into
all sorts of other relationships, whether that's relationships
(27:42):
with your kids or extendedfamily or co-workers, or
sometimes even you know theperson that you start talking
with when you're standing inline at the grocery store,
because you're able to have thatbasis of connection and
security that then becomes aplatform to improve all sorts of
(28:04):
other relationships.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
Yeah, I like that you use the word security.
I think that's a really gooddescription of it.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
It takes a lot of effort and you have to be pretty
intentional to go back andthink, okay, well, this is what
I tried and this is how itworked out.
And is that the outcome that Iwanted from well, people like
(28:37):
you who specialize incommunication and being able to
say, oh well, this is a toolthat maybe would work, rather
than just, you know, trying this, see if, what is that
expression If the spaghettisticks to the wall yes, you know
(28:57):
, and then trying somethingdifferent and see if that works
or not.
Like having some source of newinformation, new ideas, new
techniques and new tools isreally important.
So you're not just kind ofmaking it up which can work Like
.
You can base it on yourintuition, but it just means
using a lot of effort.
But maybe we don't have to.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Yeah, that's great.
That's good to know that youdon't have to, but that's one of
the biggest things that canimprove with communication.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
I like that very much , and it doesn't have to be that
hard yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
Yeah, yeah, sherry.
How can our listeners get intouch with you if they'd like to
learn more about what you do?
Speaker 2 (29:42):
Yeah, probably the best place to find me is on my
website at SherryTimcocom.
You can find links toeverything.
But if you want to come hangout with me, come hang out with
me in my Facebook group, datenight community, because it is
(30:04):
geared towards helping couplesstay connected and and claim
that lifelong commitment thatthey really want.
One of the things that I givein that group is, every week I
give three conversationquestions so that they, when
they go on a date, when theyspend some time together, they
can talk about things other thanthe three topics that most
couples spend most of their timetalking about.
(30:26):
You know what they are.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
What are they?
Well, work, oh, let's see.
Oh sorry you were going Blissy.
Okay, work, you said is one,yeah, work is one Finance Really
.
Oh, I got it right.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Okay, and say children, if you have children
yeah, work, family and home likethose are the three, three
topics that most couples talkabout.
Certainly finances is part ofhome and when they only talk
about those things theircommunication can fall into some
(31:07):
real ruts and they stop knowinghow each other thinks.
So the conversation questionsare really to help them talk
about things that they wouldn'tnormally talk about.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
I think that is so cool.
That is really great.
I'm joining your Facebook page.
I want to know about thesequestions.
Find out you've picked myhusband's brain about different
things.
That sounds great, so we'llhave all of your information in
the show notes.
Sherry Timko, thank you so muchfor being here today.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
Well, thank you so much for having me.
It's been such a pleasure totalk with you.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
It's been a great time.
I've really enjoyed it.
Thank you everyone for joiningus today.
Remember you can reach Sherryat her website, which is Sherry
C-H-E-R-I-T-I-M-K-O dot com.
You can find lots of coursesthere and free materials.
And don't forget about herFacebook page.
Hello and welcome to the Savvy Communicator podcast.
Today we'll be exploring thefour parts of communication that
allow you to talk so that yourpartner can hear you.
Our expert guest is SherryTimko, who teaches several
different courses oncommunication, relationship
healing and dating your way outof roommate syndrome.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Hello, Sherry, welcome to the show.
Oh, thank you so much forhaving me today.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
You are a couple's relationship coach and one of
the things you specialize in ishow to talk so that your partner
will hear you.
And that sounds reallyimportant to me as far as
communication goes, because Iagree, certainly, that we think
a lot of the times you say, well, if I'm talking, the other
person is not only listening,but they're understanding what I
(00:46):
have to say and that's probablynot what's going on.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
What's your perspective on that?
Even when people speak the samelanguage, even when they come
from very similar backgrounds,they often are speaking just
slightly differently, and thatcan be as simple as having
different meanings of differentwords or having different
interpretations of a word.
So, you know, you might saysomething like oh, one of my
(01:16):
favorites, clean up after dinner.
Clean up after dinner can mean,you know, clear off the table
and put the food in the fridge.
Or it can mean wipe off thetable, sweep the kitchen floor,
do the dishes, fill the you know, empty and fill the dishwasher
and wipe down the countertop.
So even something as simple asyou know, clean up after dinner
(01:44):
can have vastly differentinterpretations.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Yeah, you're just making me think of.
A couple weeks ago I had kindof you know, a tangle with a
colleague over words, in that Iwas, you know, trying to do one
thing, he was trying to do theexact same thing, and we were
just like, no, that's not whatI'm saying, we have to do it,
(02:09):
you know, this way.
And it's like, well, why do wehave to do it that way if it
accomplishes it this way?
Well, that's not what I meant.
That kind of thing, yeah, youknow that can really make you
angry.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Well, when you add the element of living with that
person and having an intimateconnection with them, it just
ramps all of that up and canmake it really intense.
So this is how couples can getinto arguments over you know,
the most, seemingly smallestdetail in life, and they will
(02:45):
potentially fight to the deathabout it, whereas maybe in
another situation I'd be like ohyou know, I don't really care
how you keep your own tube oftoothpaste and whether you roll
it up from the bottom or not.
Tubes, you know when you haveto see it and it just that can
make it seem like maybe youdon't have the same values or
(03:09):
maybe you don't live the same inthe world, and it just becomes
the symbol of everything else inthe relationship.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
Yeah, my husband, who is great, and I have very
different perceptions on a lotof things, especially how to
clean the house, and that he'svery precise and I'm kind of the
Tasmanian devil, so and hewould say things like, can you
fold the laundry today?
And I said, all right, I wouldfold the laundry and then I
would place it, you know, on thedresser or the bed.
(03:40):
And he would come in and belike, why is this out here?
I'm like, well, you said, foldthe laundry.
He's like, but aren't you goingto put it away?
And I was like, yeah, you know,I'll get to that.
And we've done a lot of work onbeing able to say I need to
know this fully.
Even if it seems weird toexplain it to me, please do,
(04:02):
because obviously I'm notpicking up what you're putting
down.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Yeah.
And couples have the addedelement that when they are
really comfortable with eachother, they actually talk in
half sentences, half thoughts.
So he said fold the laundry.
You're like I can literallyfold the laundry, I have no
problem folding the laundry.
And if he had said canliterally fold the laundry, I
(04:26):
have no problem folding thelaundry.
And if he had said, fold thelaundry and put it away, you
would have been like I can foldthe laundry and put it away.
That's my problem, like noteven a big deal.
But because he said fold thelaundry and didn't say the rest
of his thought, you were arguingthat you did exactly what he
asked and he's saying, but youdidn't do what I asked, right,
(04:46):
Yep, that was exactly it.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
So I know you work with a lot of couple.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
But if you had to generalize what people come to
you for initially their chiefcomplaint or their primary worry
or things like that what wouldyou say is kind of generally
what people come in for Mostpeople, most couples, will come
and work with me because theyhave communication issues and
(05:15):
they'll talk aboutmisunderstanding each other, or
their partner doesn't get them,or they take it wrong, or their
communication will escalate.
And then you know all bets areoff and they're into an argument
.
And I know that communicationissues also is related to
(05:38):
solving problems and that itoften can translate into either
too intense so arguing orsilence and disconnection.
So when they come to me andthey're like we have
communication issues, I'm likeokay, so which direction are you
going in?
What is your version of notbeing able to communicate with
(06:00):
each other?
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
So what are some of the techniques for being able to
talk so that your partner willhear?
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Well, there are a lot of them and the trick is to
find the tools that work bestfor you and your partner.
In general, fully communicating, or what might feel like over
communicating, is the best wayto kind of figure out how to
bridge that, and then you'llstart to see what actually works
(06:33):
.
So over communicating means ifI say something and you give me
a reaction, I'm gonna like pauseand be like okay, what did I
just say?
And give the full thought.
Or it's going to be saying,okay, what'd you hear?
All right, let me fill in therest of that.
(06:54):
So just communicating much moreclearly and not expecting your
partner to be able to fill inthe blanks.
The other tool that works reallywell is to do a little bit of
meta-communication.
The meta-communication iscommunication about how you
communicate, and that would belike stopping and saying, okay,
(07:18):
what's going on for you, or whatdid you just interpret me to
have said?
Or when I say this, how doesthat hit you?
And just talk about kind of therules around how you
communicate.
A lot of couples have triggersand they don't really pay much
(07:39):
attention to them.
A trigger is anything that yousay that will set off a reaction
in your spouse, and that can bewhether you mean to say it or
you don't mean to say it.
It's just the recognition thatit does set off a reaction in
your spouse and then decidingnot to say it.
(08:00):
That way, if you can saysomething 20 different ways, you
don't have to say it in a waythat's going to trigger a
negative reaction in your spouse.
You could just say it adifferent way.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Do you find a lot of people are resistant, either at
first or through the process?
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Well, a lot of people come to me because they're
already in a lot of discomfortor pain, so they're usually
willing to try some new things,and one of the things that I
often will tell clients is thatif you feel uncomfortable, that
may mean that we're on the righttrack, because staying in your
(08:38):
comfort zone is what's notworking for you.
So even if you try somethingand it's an abysmal failure and
you're like, oh, that wasterrible, that didn't work at
all.
At least we tried something new.
That then will help you get outof that comfortability that
just keeps everything goingexactly the same way.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
When we talked earlier, we talked a little bit
about the four parts ofcommunication.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Yeah, I heard.
Take us through that.
Yeah, I heard this frameworkrecently and really liked it.
I've been talking about it alot with clients.
I'd love to credit the personwho originally came up with it,
but I can't seem to find thecredit for it.
But it's this idea that thereare four parts to communication.
The first part is what youthink in your head, so it's like
(09:31):
what you mean to say when yousay something.
The second part is what youactually say.
Now, if you think back toconversations and you hear your
partner say what they think yousaid and you're like no, no,
that's not what I meant, youknow that there's a real
disconnect between like what wethink and then what we actually
(09:54):
say, the words we actuallychoose.
The third part is what ourpartner hears.
Now, this is an interestingpart of communication because we
all know that our partner isnot sitting around wondering
what we're thinking, trying tohear us most of the time Like
(10:18):
logically, we know that they arehaving their own thoughts and
they're doing their own thing.
They're engaged with their ownstuff.
They might even be thinkingthat we're listening for them,
but really couples are busydoing other things.
So when we start to talk.
When we're talking, our partneris listening, hopefully.
(10:40):
Or they're distracted or youknow, maybe they didn't even
catch the fact that we hadstopped talking to the dog and
are now talking to them.
So the third part is what theyactually hear, and that can be
100% of what we said, that couldbe 50% of what we said, that
(11:00):
could be 10% of what we said.
And then the fourth part is howthey interpret what they hear,
and that interpretation can bebased on what you actually said.
That interpretation can bebased on history of what you've
said, that what they interpretcould be part of what they grew
(11:24):
up with or how they look at theworld.
So that interpretation canreally be very different than
what you meant, what you said,and even very different than
what you meant yeah okay, so anyof those four parts can go
wrong in communication I'm justletting that digest.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
That's really true and makes it so much more
complex.
I I think and I kind ofmentioned this before that with
communication there's a quotethat's been attributed to a lot
of different people, but it saysthe most important thing about
communication is making sure ithas occurred, being sure that
(12:06):
it's actually happened, becauseso many times we're talking at
people and we say, well, ofcourse you understand this, I
understand this, so of courseyou do too, and then it's a
shock when they don't.
So I really like your four partof communication and it's
really taking into accountculture and sort of
(12:26):
acknowledging that we all growup in a different culture, that
sort of individual to ourself,and that that has to be taken
into account.
I think that's really importantthat you do that.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Yeah, it will color everything.
It'll color how you think abouta problem, it'll color what you
say about a problem and itdefinitely will color what you
hear and how you interpret that.
And you said culture, which isabsolutely a big piece of it,
but also personality andpersonal experience will color
(13:03):
how you say things and how youhear things say things and how
you hear things.
That's why couples who even arevery, very similar in their
background they're likely tohave communication issues.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
What.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
I think is interesting is that sometimes
the couples who are more similar, the impact of communication
issues is actually greater thanif they come from very different
backgrounds.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Really.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Because when you are very different from your spouse,
you expect them to not get it.
You're going to say a lot moreand you're going to expect to
have to negotiate a lot moreabout how to live.
When people grow up and it'svery similar sometimes they
think well, you should know whatI'm thinking because you're
(13:56):
similar, and so they minimizethe impact.
They minimize those differencesin a way that then makes those
problems bigger.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Yeah, it takes a lot of effort, doesn't it?
It can.
Yeah you have to want it, but,like you said, when people are
coming to you, they probablyalready want it very much,
because they need help.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
I think there's a habit element to this, and when
you set up good habit in yourrelationship, we think about
habits as individual, but wealso have couple habits and we
have relationship habits, and sohow you set up those
(14:44):
communication habits is going tothen like then you just do what
that habit is.
So if your habit is to get theother person's attention and say
, hey, is this a good time totalk?
And I have something importantto tell you, can I you know, is
this a good time to tell you?
And then you tell them well,that's going to set that
(15:07):
communication up for much betterunderstanding.
Or if your habit is to say,okay, I'm not just going to have
this whole conversation in myhead, I'm going to have this
with my spouse and actually getthem to talk back with me, then
you're going to have a muchbetter understanding of what
(15:30):
they're thinking, rather thanguessing what their part of the
conversation is.
So, yes, it does take effort tocommunicate, but it also you
can minimize that effort bycommunicating in a way that
actually fits with yourpartner's communication and then
having good habits around those.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
Yeah, that's so true and that really resonates with
me.
I know one of the things thatmy husband and I have worked out
is that I can't come in and saythe words we need to talk,
because, you know, that sort ofsends him into worrying about
things.
So I have to do exactly whatyou said.
I said you know I have somethings to tell you.
(16:16):
Is this a good time?
And he'll say you know what I'mfocusing on this?
Can it wait till later yet orno, it really needs to be now,
and you know it makes a world ofdifference.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
That's a really good trigger to have.
On your list of things.
You can ask to have aconversation in 20 different
ways.
You know that for your husband,saying we need to talk about
something is going to be anegative trigger, and so you
need to just say it in adifferent way.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
Yeah, we had to work that out because I was coming in
and saying, hey, we need totalk, because we did need to
talk, and he would be like what,what is it, what is it?
And he would be like what, whatis it, what is it?
And you know, finally I waslike what's going on with you?
Why does this concern you?
And he's like I just hate thosewords.
It makes me worry thatsomething's going to happen.
(17:08):
And I'm like okay, I didn'tthink of that and you know,
working it out makes it so mucheasier.
Now I'm more relaxed and he'smore relaxed too.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Yeah, absolutely, and that is the goal to be more
relaxed with your partner.
Another good communicationrelationship habit would be to
sum up the conversation at theend and make sure that you're
both on the same page, or verysimilar to that is to confirm
(17:38):
that you actually have anagreement or a plan.
Sometimes couples will just betalking about a bunch of
different things and one partnerleaves thinking that, okay, we
have a plan, I'm ready to go,and the other one thinks that
they were just kind of likeshooting the breeze, throwing
out some ideas, and you knowthey would get to a plan at some
(17:58):
point, but they haven't quitegotten there yet.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Yeah, yeah, I can see that a lot.
It's so interesting that youuse the word habit instead of
anything else.
Is there a reason why you chosethat particular word?
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Yeah, this concept of relationship habit has really
resonated with me in a lot ofways.
If you think about the rest ofyour life, we develop habits
around all sorts of things andautomate so many parts of our
lives.
But then when it comes to ourrelationship, we can be really
(18:32):
lazy about those habits.
We're thoughtless about themand they're still very powerful.
They're just a habit that'screated by two people rather
than an internal solo habit, andwe have all kinds of
relationship habits from saying,you know, from the things that
(18:55):
we do first thing in the morning, whether that's snuggling with
our spouse for a few minutesbefore getting up or saying good
morning when both of us arefinally up, to having a cup of
coffee and having a few minutesto talk about things, to saying
goodbye and having some sort ofintimate connection then, or
(19:16):
checking in about each other'sday, to the communication that
you have throughout the day,maybe whether it can be texts,
it can be phone calls, to howyou say hello at the end of the
day, to eating dinner together,to spending time like saying
goodnight, like there are somany places where having just a
(19:38):
very short intentional habitthere becomes a point of
connection.
And the more points ofconnection that you have, the
more safe your relationshipfeels and therefore your
communication is easier.
There's not so much pressure onsaying everything exactly right
(20:00):
because you feel close andconnected through these
relationship habits.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Yeah, I really like that choice of word.
It's interesting.
I just read the book AtomicHabits by James Clear and you
were talking about Bullet Eater,sort of going over the
conversation at the end, makingsure that everybody's on the
same page, ready to do the samething.
And he does the same thing inhis book, in that he'll write a
chapter and then at the endthere are bullet points to go
(20:28):
over and be like remember, sothere's this and this and this
that we talked about, and Ithought that's really amusing
and cool that you do the samething.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Isn't it amazing that we have these kind of
communication tools that we useat work or with others out in
the world, but then we get homeand we don't practice them?
Now there's a good reason whywe don't.
The reason is that we relaxwith our partners.
Okay, now, this is a good thingLike I want people to relax
(21:03):
with their partner, with theirspouse but when you relax, then
you stop intentionallycommunicating.
You stop thinking about everyword that you say and how you
say it, thinking about everyword that you say and how you
say it.
So the bridge to that is thatif you have some good
relationship habit, some goodcommunication habits in place,
(21:25):
then you relax, but you're stillusing these habits that keep
communication working in apositive way.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
Yeah, okay, I get it.
I get it, yeah, because whenyou come home, you want to kind
of shrug off the day and nothave to do the things you were
doing all day, which is thinkingabout communication.
How am I going to say this?
How am I going to talk to myboss, how am I going to talk to
my staff, or whatever it is, andkind of having to tiptoe a
(21:53):
little bit throughout that, andyou don't want to do that when
you get home.
That makes so much sense.
That makes so much sense.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
The good news is, most of these will work both at
work and at home.
Really, I mean, if you're usedto saying to people at work, hey
, is this a good time to talk toyou?
I need to go through a fewthings with you that's very easy
to use at home.
If you start using that at home, that's also a wonderful tool
(22:23):
to use at work.
So once you get into goodcommunication habits, you
probably can relax in bothenvironments.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
True, I guess the first thing that flashed into my
mind when you said that it's agreat thing at work is I thought
well, there's so many people.
You know I got a littleoverwhelmed for a second,
thinking that so many people,that so many different types of
habits that I have to build, youknow, is it even possible?
I just thought about the numberof people at a job, but I'm
(22:57):
sure it's possible with yourtechniques.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
Well, is the other one about summing up the
conversation at the end of theconversation.
That's also going to work withmost of your colleagues.
In fact, many of them will liketo know okay, did we reach an
agreement?
Are we all on the same pagehere?
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
And then move off into your day and be able to
know whether that was anactionable conversation or a
brainstorming conversation.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
You said an interesting conversation or a.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
A actionable conversation.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Actionable.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
Or a brainstorming conversation.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Okay, yeah, I like that too, because those are both
positive words.
So you're not saying it's a badthing that we didn't make a
decision here, we just want tobrainstorm it, yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
Now that I think about it, remember when the
pandemic started and everyonewas saying now we know what
could have been an email versusa meeting.
Yes, think that that may be thecrossing.
(24:16):
The like, miscommunication ofmany, many meetings is half the
people might walk in thinking,all right, we're coming up with
a plan, we're going to leavewith an actionable plan, and
half are walking in saying, allright, we need to brainstorm
this, come up with a bunch ofdifferent solutions and then
(24:37):
process whether those solutionsare going to work.
There's another place for beingclear on what that intention is
, for that meeting wouldcompletely change whether people
find it helpful or whether theythink it's a waste of time.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
Yeah, I just flashed on this joke.
Talking about meetings, thereis a.
William Goldman was a Hollywoodscreenwriter.
He wrote the Princess Bride andhe said that he attended so
many meetings that he thoughtthere should be an Academy Award
for meetings Because it wouldbe best original meeting, best
meeting based on material from aprevious meeting.
(25:15):
You know that kind of thing.
It just makes me laugh everysingle time.
Wow that's great Because, yeah,we've kind of gone back into the
same habit of meeting in personwherever we can, or virtually,
but there's still a lot offace-to-face that maybe we don't
need.
So, sherry, to wrap up ourconversation, which I have been
(25:39):
thoroughly enjoying, what aresome of the positive benefits
that people find if they aretaking your course on
communication?
What do you see happening afterpeople finish the course?
Speaker 2 (25:52):
Well, once I work with couples whether it's I work
with couples in a variety ofdifferent ways, whether it's I
work with couples in a varietyof different ways One is that
I'm a couples psychotherapistand so I do one-on-one couples
therapy with them, and then Ialso have a program through my
coaching and then I have somefree materials.
(26:13):
So the thing that pulls throughall of them is being able to see
a cycle, see how two people areinteracting and see the part
that needs to be adjusted sothat they can communicate better
.
(26:34):
So one of the things that I saya lot is that nobody needs a
personality overhaul in order tomake their relationship work.
We need to find the places wherethings are getting tricked up,
where there's some rough spot,and then figure out what the
workaround is.
So a lot of the work that I dois kind of figuring out how to
(26:57):
make two different personalitiesfit together in a way that they
live well together.
So at the end of the work whenI work with couples, they often
are communicating much moreclearly, they're more at ease
with each other, they're able toenjoy each other the time that
they spend with each other, theyare able to solve problems
(27:21):
better together and so they justcan feel more at ease and
comfortable with each other onthat day-to-day basis.
So there's a lot of benefits toworking on your primary
relationship and in a lot ofways that will trickle out into
all sorts of other relationships, whether that's relationships
(27:42):
with your kids or extendedfamily or co-workers, or
sometimes even you know theperson that you start talking
with when you're standing inline at the grocery store,
because you're able to have thatbasis of connection and
security that then becomes aplatform to improve all sorts of
(28:04):
other relationships.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
Yeah, I like that you use the word security.
I think that's a really gooddescription of it.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
It takes a lot of effort and you have to be pretty
intentional to go back andthink, okay, well, this is what
I tried and this is how itworked out.
And is that the outcome that Iwanted from well, people like
(28:37):
you who specialize incommunication and being able to
say, oh well, this is a toolthat maybe would work, rather
than just, you know, trying this, see if, what is that
expression If the spaghettisticks to the wall yes, you know
(28:57):
, and then trying somethingdifferent and see if that works
or not.
Like having some source of newinformation, new ideas, new
techniques and new tools isreally important.
So you're not just kind ofmaking it up which can work Like
.
You can base it on yourintuition, but it just means
using a lot of effort.
But maybe we don't have to.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Yeah, that's great.
That's good to know that youdon't have to, but that's one of
the biggest things that canimprove with communication.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
I like that very much , and it doesn't have to be that
hard yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
Yeah, yeah, sherry.
How can our listeners get intouch with you if they'd like to
learn more about what you do?
Speaker 2 (29:42):
Yeah, probably the best place to find me is on my
website at SherryTimcocom.
You can find links toeverything.
But if you want to come hangout with me, come hang out with
me in my Facebook group, datenight community, because it is
(30:04):
geared towards helping couplesstay connected and and claim
that lifelong commitment thatthey really want.
One of the things that I givein that group is, every week I
give three conversationquestions so that they, when
they go on a date, when theyspend some time together, they
can talk about things other thanthe three topics that most
couples spend most of their timetalking about.
(30:26):
You know what they are.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
What are they?
Well, work, oh, let's see.
Oh sorry you were going Blissy.
Okay, work, you said is one,yeah, work is one Finance Really
.
Oh, I got it right.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Okay, and say children, if you have children
yeah, work, family and home likethose are the three, three
topics that most couples talkabout.
Certainly finances is part ofhome and when they only talk
about those things theircommunication can fall into some
(31:07):
real ruts and they stop knowinghow each other thinks.
So the conversation questionsare really to help them talk
about things that they wouldn'tnormally talk about.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
I think that is so cool.
That is really great.
I'm joining your Facebook page.
I want to know about thesequestions.
Find out you've picked myhusband's brain about different
things.
That sounds great, so we'llhave all of your information in
the show notes.
Sherry Timko, thank you so muchfor being here today.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
Well, thank you so much for having me.
It's been such a pleasure totalk with you.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
It's been a great time.
I've really enjoyed it.
Thank you everyone for joiningus today.
Remember you can reach Sherryat her website, which is Sherry
C-H-E-R-I-T-I-M-K-O dot com.
You can find lots of coursesthere and free materials.
And don't forget about herFacebook page.
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.