August 16, 2023 • 26 mins
Ever wondered how open, honest dialogue can transform your sex life? Prepare to gain deep insights as we sit down with sexual intimacy coach, Anna Thellmann. Anna pulls back the curtain on her coaching journey, sharing how she equips individuals to quiet their mental noise and tune into their bodies. She also shines a light on her method to break down barriers and foster candid conversations, which can be an eye-opener for many of us who are hesitant to voice our needs and desires.
We delve into the roots of self-shame and self-blame, opening up an enlightening conversation on letting go of judgement. Anna emphasizes the role of positivity and a judgment-free environment in a successful coaching process. Whether you are curious about sexual intimacy coaching or simply want to enhance your communication about sex, this episode promises to be a goldmine of useful, empowering information. Tune in.
Find out more about Anna and her coaching practice at www.AnnaThellmann.com
This is a show where ideas come together. The guest statements expressed on The Savvy Communicator Podcast are their own and not necessarily the views of The Savvy Communicator.
Thanks for joining us! Become part of the conversation at www.savvycommunicator.com, and follow me on social media: my handle is @savvycommunicator.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Amy (00:00):
Hi and welcome to the Sabu Communicator podcast.
I'm your host, Amy Flanagan.
You might not want the kidsaround for today's episode
because we're discussing how tocommunicate about sex.
This is a place where wediscuss all things communication
, facial expressions, bodylanguage and, most importantly,
(00:22):
how to talk when you're not surewhat to say.
My expert guest today is AnnaThellmann, a sexual intimacy
coach.
Thank you for having me.
It's very honored to be here.
Oh, I appreciate it so much.
I have to admit I'm a littlenervous.
I've never talked to a sexualintimacy coach before.
Anna (00:39):
I'm hoping that a lot of people are in the same situation
when they come to see you forthe first time, is true, but on
the other hand, the thing is,when they are aware that I'm a
sexual intimacy coach, they openup and talk about their
sexuality or the non-existenceof their sexual life.
Amy (00:57):
So that's very helpful.
On the other hand, so is itsometimes like you get
permission to go ahead and juststart talking just by knowing
that's what you're there.
Anna (01:06):
Particularly when I'm in networking meetings and we go
into breakout rooms and thenthey say, oh, Anna, you're a
sexual intimacy coach, and say,yeah, oh, by the way, my wife
and I, or my wife or me.
So whatever it is, but it givesthem the I guess just the
comforts to talk to someone whoknows stuff that might help them
(01:29):
.
Amy (01:30):
Yes, Would you say that how much the population, would you
say just generally, could usethe help of an intimacy coach?
I'd say 90%.
At least I thought you mightsay something like that.
Yeah, Because it's somethingthat you know.
It is not something that youwere just born knowing how to do
(01:52):
.
Anna (01:52):
Yeah, and there's so much to it.
So it's not just the sexualactivity, it's the foreplay, and
the foreplay starts long beforethe foreplay.
The foreplay starts after thesexual activity already.
So it's a cycle and there is alot of intimacy that is just in
the relationship that is neededto have a fulfilled relationship
(02:13):
, even if we put sex aside.
That intimacy, not just sexual,not the physical intimacy, but
the emotional intimacy, thesocial intimacy, the
intellectual intimacy there's somuch around it that is ideally
placed into having that asfulfilled sexual life.
Amy (02:36):
Wow, ok, yeah, I realize I'm nodding along and saying
mm-hmm as we're going throughthis and I'm sounding like an
expert and I'm definitely not.
It's just something I noticed.
Tell me, how did you become asexual intimacy coach?
What was that?
Anna (02:53):
Well, the thing is I started my own business here in
China about two years ago andbefore that, back in England, I
was a coach.
I helped apprentices at thecollege to deal with their life,
their studies, et cetera.
And coming then to China, Imissed it and got the
opportunity to set up my ownbusiness.
(03:14):
And I knew I wanted to coach.
I knew I wanted to help peopleaccept the good, the bad and the
ugly that they are, but Ididn't know how to put it into
words, how to communicate it.
So I got help from differentcoaches and that journey was
quite disappointing because itjust confused me even more.
(03:35):
And then eventually I said OK,I just call myself a life coach.
I know my tools, I know that Iwant to help people in a certain
way and it will happen.
Eventually I will find theniche that will speak to me.
And it's this typical how toshower, go out of the shower.
(03:56):
And An idea came to my mind.
I said what if all of thesetools I'm using would also work
in the bedroom?
And I myself I lovemasturbating and it's a healthy
thing to masturbate two to threetimes a week.
Ladies, keeps you fit, keepsyou young.
(04:16):
Just to say that.
Amy (04:21):
I like those things, that's good.
Anna (04:25):
But for me, I had this limiting belief, or I developed
that limiting belief, that Ineed this big, amazing fantasy
and it has to be bigger andbolder every time.
And as soon as there was adifferent thought coming in, it
was panic in my body, in my mind, and it wasn't enjoyable
anymore.
So I thought, what if I usethese tools to quieten my mind,
(04:51):
to focus on my body and justgive it a go?
And that's what I did and I hadsuch an amazing orgasm without
any fantasies, without anypreparation, without any tension
.
I mean, you have tension whenyou have an orgasm, but it's
this cramping up.
So that wasn't there.
It was just like cool from toesto tip to toes, like I say, it
(05:16):
was just easy, flowing.
And I thought I need to sharethis.
You don't need to know that.
It's in your head.
Whatever you think becomes yourresult.
So when you think that Icontrol myself, I can't have sex
with my partner because I don'tlook a certain way, I don't
(05:38):
behave or move a certain way,etc.
It's in your head and I canhelp you to get past that so
that you can have this builtsexual, intimate life.
And that's how I became thesexual intimacy.
Amy (05:54):
That's wonderful and that seems so important and, like you
said, so many people don't talkabout it or feel that they
shouldn't talk about it or thatit's something that you can't
get help with.
And tell me, when you have aclient that comes to you, how do
(06:14):
you encourage them to open upand to be honest with you,
because I'm sure a lot of peoplehave difficulties with that?
Anna (06:20):
The thing is, when they come to me, they know I'm a
sexual intimacy coach, so theyknow that they come because they
want to have sex and don't haveit.
Currently, the main goal is Iwant to have sex, but I don't
have it.
How can you help?
So they are inclined to talkabout it.
So there isn't muchreinforcement needed or any
(06:43):
persuasion to say, okay, let'stalk about it.
But what there is, on the otherhand, is that some people don't
like to use particular wordspenis, vagina, sex, doggy style,
stuff like that.
So we just use the language thatthey feel comfortable with.
We just give the same thingsdifferent names in the way that
(07:06):
you feel comfortable talkingabout it all day, if needed.
Amy (07:09):
Okay, so that's good.
So you kind of meet them wherethey are.
So when you have a client, andwhether they're there by
themselves or whether they'rethere with a partner, how do you
encourage them to startcommunicating, like you said
already, so they know who youare and what you do and they
(07:32):
know why they're there.
So that makes it easier.
And do you have a lot of?
I guess that was a roundaboutway to get to the question Do
you have a lot of clients thathave trouble communicating with
their partner?
Anna (07:47):
But it's usually due to because they don't know what
they want and they don't knowwhy they are stuck, and you
don't know what you don't know.
So how do you communicatesomething that you don't know?
Yeah, so, of course, a lot ofmy work also entails to just
figure out.
What do you actually want?
What is it that makes you happy?
What is it that stimulates yourbody or mind?
(08:09):
It will keep you推somiet be asit is, and then we move on to
say, okay, how can we bring thisacross in your particular way?
Not in the words that I tellyou to say, but what feels
comfortable to you to say?
I give you a structure, becausethere are particular structures
that are more helpful thesandwich method with positive
(08:34):
solution, positive stuff likethis.
Yes, and you can use those, yes,in that sexual intimacy fields.
Amy (08:41):
Yeah, that's so interesting that you talk about using the
sandwich method for feedback.
I worked in medical educationfor many years and a big part of
that was giving feedback tostudents and doctors and the
sandwich method.
A lot of people say, oh, that'skind of old and tired.
Why should we do this?
It's so important because youwant to give something to
(09:06):
improve on in the middle of thepositive, because in my
perspective and in my work and Iwant to hear what your opinion
is that way the person knowsthat you're not just saying all
the nice things, that there issomething that they can work on
and then it makes the positivefeedback a little more positive
(09:30):
and genuine because they'redoing that.
What would be your opinion onsomething like that?
Anna (09:34):
Yeah, I'll give you an example.
So one of my clients she didn'thave the foreplay that she
would love to have, so we talkedabout it.
So how can you tell yourpartner what you would like to
happen during the foreplay?
And for her, she wanted thather partner squeezes her nipples
(09:59):
so that she has more tractionor just more feeling in it.
So she came up with I love itwhen you touch my breasts.
What I would love even more isif you would like my nipples.
Amy (10:13):
that would give me a lot of pleasure and that ended up
being comfortable for her to saywe got that.
Anna (10:21):
She wasn't used to talking about these things.
Like many of my clients, theyaren't used to talking about
these things with her partners.
They don't even tell themselveswhat they like.
But giving them thisnon-judgmental space to just
let's explore what do you want?
And she wants her nipples to benippled on, fair enough,
(10:46):
whatever floats your boat.
So how can we put that into anice feedback and also give some
improvement suggestion?
And this way?
Her partner knows she loves itwhen I touch her breasts, oh,
and this will make her evenhotter.
Amazing.
Let's do this.
Amy (11:05):
Yeah, that's great.
So it sounds like you reallywork hard to bring a positive
feeling and cultivate thatpositivity towards whatever the
person feels and needs.
Anna (11:19):
Yes, it's very important In any coaching relationship.
It's important to be positiveand show the client that there
is the light at the end of thetunnel, when you are now, this
is just a phase.
This is just the stage right now, thank you, and we move forward
and that is very encouragingand that's what they came for.
(11:43):
They want to get to that light.
So just make it easier, andmaybe not easier, but make it
more fun and enjoyable to getthere, even though it's
sometimes hard work,particularly emotionally and
when you become aware of, oh myGod, I've done it like this all
(12:03):
these years and that's why itdidn't work.
And they might come in someself-shaming or self-blaming.
And then we say, ok, that's OK,we let it come, we let that
feeling come and we let it go.
There's no need to push it awayor to hold on to it, we just
(12:23):
invite it and then send it offagain.
Amy (12:26):
That sounds.
That's a lovely image, talkingabout seeing the light at the
end of the tunnel and knowingit's there.
And I want to talk a little bitabout what you were saying
about people that haveself-blame or self-shame around
sex.
Because, just as a littlepersonal anecdote, I went to
Catholic school and I was taughtabout the rhythm method for
(12:50):
birth control and everythingelse was pretty much.
The only education I got wasnot until you're married.
So it was very difficult atfirst especially when I met my
husband, to figure out all that.
So a lot of other peopleexperience that kind of
self-shaming and self-blame, andnot just in the bedroom.
(13:13):
Where do you think it comes from, and not just in?
Anna (13:15):
the bedroom Any part of their lives.
The thing is when we shouldlook at it like, yes, this is
the sexual part of your life,and when you self-shame and
self-blame in the sexual part ofyour life, you most likely do
it in every other part of yourlife, because you talk to
yourself and you don't stoptalking to yourself when you get
(13:38):
out of the bedroom, when you doyour business, when you talk to
your children, when youinteract with people.
Those sorts are there.
Then self-shaming comes withyou.
Amy (13:53):
We're going to take a quick break.
Our expert guest is AnnaThelman, a sexual intimacy coach
, and we are talking aboutcommunicating in the bedroom.
Be right back, music, welcomeback.
We're here with Anna Thelman.
(14:13):
Anna, I want to take a momentand go back to what you were
talking about with people thatself-shame a lot.
Where do you think it comesfrom that so many people have
that?
Anna (14:26):
trouble.
I want to introduce you to theidea that there is this voice in
your head and let's call it thejudge.
Yes, it's judging us.
And what happened at one pointin your early life?
There was a situation.
It doesn't have to be a trauma,it doesn't have to be anything
(14:48):
big.
It can be just that you askedyour parents something that
turned around and said now youdon't get it and that's where
your judge then came.
And your judge is there toprotect you from emotional harm.
And for that particularsituation, your judge came like
here I am and protect me.
(15:08):
So I'm telling you that it'syou Just go away.
And what happens is we carrythat judge and that judge
becomes many different forms.
So we can be very peoplepleasing, very controlling or
sectionism.
That's one point, a big pointfor many people, that everything
has to be perfect.
(15:28):
And that's that voice, thatjudge, that Because of something
happened when you were a child,it came to protect you.
And while we grow older, whilewe start to think more, while we
get to grow and understandourselves better, we usually
don't need that voice anymore,that protection, but we're so
(15:53):
used to it because it gives usthe comfort and we identify
ourselves with that voice.
So we think this is who I am.
I am a perfectionist.
I hear many people say that Iam a proclamant perfectionist.
That's no you're not.
You haven't been born aperfectionist.
(16:14):
Something happened that gaverise to that voice that wants to
protect you.
And so far you haven't learnedto let go of that voice, to
quieten that voice, because wedon't want to get rid of it, we
just want to quieten it so tolet out the more positive
thoughts, the more self-assuring, self-compassionate thoughts.
(16:38):
But right now, that other voice, that self-blaming,
self-shaming voice, is so loudthat it insects every area of
our life, every decision we make.
It's so dominant and I teach myclients to quieten that voice
(16:59):
so that we can give rise to thepositivity, to the
self-compassion, to see whatelse is there underneath that
self-shame and self-name.
And it's so amazing to see,when you quieten that voice, so
many other thoughts come to mindthat you, where are they coming
(17:19):
from?
Because it's so quiet and nowyour mind is free to just create
, and creation is usuallypositive, positivity, positive,
and it moves you forward Becauseyou want to improve yourself,
you want to achieve your goals,you want to get to that night.
Amy (17:46):
Yeah, wow, that's a beautiful explanation.
I really like that Because,yeah, I can see if I'm having a
rough day.
I can criticize myself oneverything from how I pick out
fruit at the grocery store tomore important things on the
agenda.
But it's really nice to hearyou acknowledge and accommodate
(18:14):
the fact that that's somethingthat people have everywhere, on
all levels, and to address thatinstead of just saying well, I
could see some coaches I'veknown some coaches that are very
I'll use the word precise inwhat they do and they're like
(18:35):
well, you're here to fix thisproblem, I'll fix this problem
and that's it.
Thank you very much, and itsounds like that you really pay
attention to the entire gamut ofwhat's going on, so that this
individual problem isn't justfixed in the bedroom but is
(18:56):
fixed for their entire life.
I'm not here.
Anna (19:00):
My job isn't to fix your problem.
My job is to help you so youcan fix any problem in your life
.
Amy (19:10):
Wow, that's really that's what we're doing, so that we
work together.
Anna (19:16):
my programs are six months long because I want to build
you up your confidence up inyourself.
So when you leave my program,that you know when shit hits the
fan excuse my French, I candeal with it.
No, it might be tough, I mightcry.
(19:37):
Whatever happens, I can dealwith it.
Wow.
Amy (19:43):
So would you say that a lot of people get more than they
bargained for when they sign upfor one of your courses?
Anna (19:49):
I don't see it that way, it's just like Mm-hmm.
Amy (19:55):
I see it in a very good way , in that they might think that
they're just coming in to talkabout one thing.
But, like you said, that reallyresonated with me when you said
to fix any problem.
Anna (20:06):
Yeah.
Amy (20:06):
Yeah, on your own.
You know, you might think, well, I'm coming to see Anna because
I want to have a good orgasm,and but it seems like there's so
much more than that.
Anna (20:17):
Yes but, the thing is, when my clients come to me, they
have that particular situationin mind.
So they are missing sex andthat's their main focus to get
that orgasm back, to have thatsexual intimate relationship.
And it's like when you go andyou want to lose weight, you go
(20:41):
to someone who helps youparticularly with losing weight,
because that's your problem,let's call it.
Even though it's not a problem,it's just something in your
mind that you think, whoa, youneed to do this.
But you look for those peoplewho help you with that, and even
those will give you tools thatyou can use in every area of
(21:04):
your life.
Like, yeah, if you want yourorgasm back, we talk about sex,
we talk about orgasms, we talkabout all of that that's
important to you and, inaddition, you can handle your
life after Much easier.
Amy (21:19):
I wanted to go back to something you mentioned in
people policing, and that thereare a lot of people that feel.
You know, in my opinion there'sthousands upon thousands of
people who feel that that's agood and valid way to
communicate is by always puttingthe other person first and that
(21:41):
if the other person is feelinggood, whether that's business or
in the bedroom, then they havesucceeded and they feel good
about that.
So when you meet a client,that's a people pleaser is there
a particular way that you goabout working?
Anna (21:56):
with them.
Usually, when they come to me,they are not aware that they are
people pleaser, like manypeople aren't aware that they
are pleasing people, and we getto the root of that step by step
.
And what happens when you are apeople pleaser is that what you
do is usually connected to anexpectation that you have.
(22:21):
So you're nice, I'm nice to Amy, I'm here at her podcast and I
want her to promote me so I getmore clients.
So I'm being very nice to you,so that you are nice to me,
gotcha.
The other thing is that it'scoming back to that voice in our
head, to that judge, becausemany of us are trained to
(22:47):
believe that when we think aboutourselves first, it's a bad
thing.
We have to think about theothers Only.
When we are in service toothers, we are happy.
And that sentence.
In itself that's correct,because it makes you happy to
help others.
What's missing is that you pullfrom an empty cow.
(23:12):
So what you're giving isconnected to expectations, is
connected to, probably, a lackof happiness and lack of purpose
.
It might be fear.
So there's some sort of I callit negative attachment in this
(23:34):
way.
That's why you want to pleasepeople, and when you turn it
around and when you fill yourcup first, when you look after
yourself first.
It doesn't mean you go away fora weekend to ignore everyone.
It just means, like settingyour boundaries, saying no,
occasionally, have a box, dosomething that makes you happy
(23:59):
no one else, just you and that'show you fill up that cup.
And when you do that, you willbe so in tune with yourself.
You will be so passionate andcompassionate about yourself so
you don't have the need forthose expectations anymore,
(24:20):
because you're just here sayingI love myself, I love you.
Let's love the world, yeah.
Amy (24:29):
And it doesn't matter.
I like that.
Let's love the world.
Yeah, and it doesn't matterwhat comes back.
Anna (24:33):
It doesn't matter.
You're not waiting for anyfeedback.
You're not waiting for I knowclients you look for on social
media.
How many likes or etc.
Do you get?
Yeah, because there is a lack.
They serve, but they stillexpect.
When you just serve, serveyourself first.
(24:57):
Then, when your cup isoverflowing, there's so much
more for the rest of us.
Amy (25:04):
So, anna, tell me how can potential clients get in touch
with you if they would like tolearn more?
Anna (25:08):
Well, they can send me an email.
My email is Anna@annathellmann.
com .
They find me on LinkedIn underAnna Thellmann, or on Facebook,
same Anna Thellmann.
Well, they can have a look atmy websites, annathellmanncom.
Amy (25:29):
All right, I have all those links in the show notes
available for you and Anna, Ican't thank you enough for being
here today and bringing ourconversation about communication
to a new level.
I think the main things thatI'm personally going to take
away are what you said about thelight at the end of the tunnel
(25:50):
and knowing the light is there,Just as you mentioned.
That's something you can applyto anything, not just the
bedroom, and I'm certainly goingto take away the thought of the
judge and try to work ongetting my judge to be better at
talking to me.
I think that's really importanttoo.
(26:12):
I appreciate it so much.
Thank you for being here today.
Thank you for giving me the time.
Thank you, and thanks to ouraudience for listening today.
If you like what you hear,please leave us a review, join
us on Facebook or Instagram, orcheck out our website at
wwwsavvycomunicatorcom.
We'll see you next time.
Hi and welcome to the Sabu Communicator podcast.
I'm your host, Amy Flanagan.
You might not want the kidsaround for today's episode
because we're discussing how tocommunicate about sex.
This is a place where wediscuss all things communication
, facial expressions, bodylanguage and, most importantly,
(00:22):
how to talk when you're not surewhat to say.
My expert guest today is AnnaThellmann, a sexual intimacy
coach.
Thank you for having me.
It's very honored to be here.
Oh, I appreciate it so much.
I have to admit I'm a littlenervous.
I've never talked to a sexualintimacy coach before.
Anna (00:39):
I'm hoping that a lot of people are in the same situation
when they come to see you forthe first time, is true, but on
the other hand, the thing is,when they are aware that I'm a
sexual intimacy coach, they openup and talk about their
sexuality or the non-existenceof their sexual life.
Amy (00:57):
So that's very helpful.
On the other hand, so is itsometimes like you get
permission to go ahead and juststart talking just by knowing
that's what you're there.
Anna (01:06):
Particularly when I'm in networking meetings and we go
into breakout rooms and thenthey say, oh, Anna, you're a
sexual intimacy coach, and say,yeah, oh, by the way, my wife
and I, or my wife or me.
So whatever it is, but it givesthem the I guess just the
comforts to talk to someone whoknows stuff that might help them
(01:29):
.
Amy (01:30):
Yes, Would you say that how much the population, would you
say just generally, could usethe help of an intimacy coach?
I'd say 90%.
At least I thought you mightsay something like that.
Yeah, Because it's somethingthat you know.
It is not something that youwere just born knowing how to do
(01:52):
.
Anna (01:52):
Yeah, and there's so much to it.
So it's not just the sexualactivity, it's the foreplay, and
the foreplay starts long beforethe foreplay.
The foreplay starts after thesexual activity already.
So it's a cycle and there is alot of intimacy that is just in
the relationship that is neededto have a fulfilled relationship
(02:13):
, even if we put sex aside.
That intimacy, not just sexual,not the physical intimacy, but
the emotional intimacy, thesocial intimacy, the
intellectual intimacy there's somuch around it that is ideally
placed into having that asfulfilled sexual life.
Amy (02:36):
Wow, ok, yeah, I realize I'm nodding along and saying
mm-hmm as we're going throughthis and I'm sounding like an
expert and I'm definitely not.
It's just something I noticed.
Tell me, how did you become asexual intimacy coach?
What was that?
Anna (02:53):
Well, the thing is I started my own business here in
China about two years ago andbefore that, back in England, I
was a coach.
I helped apprentices at thecollege to deal with their life,
their studies, et cetera.
And coming then to China, Imissed it and got the
opportunity to set up my ownbusiness.
(03:14):
And I knew I wanted to coach.
I knew I wanted to help peopleaccept the good, the bad and the
ugly that they are, but Ididn't know how to put it into
words, how to communicate it.
So I got help from differentcoaches and that journey was
quite disappointing because itjust confused me even more.
(03:35):
And then eventually I said OK,I just call myself a life coach.
I know my tools, I know that Iwant to help people in a certain
way and it will happen.
Eventually I will find theniche that will speak to me.
And it's this typical how toshower, go out of the shower.
(03:56):
And An idea came to my mind.
I said what if all of thesetools I'm using would also work
in the bedroom?
And I myself I lovemasturbating and it's a healthy
thing to masturbate two to threetimes a week.
Ladies, keeps you fit, keepsyou young.
(04:16):
Just to say that.
Amy (04:21):
I like those things, that's good.
Anna (04:25):
But for me, I had this limiting belief, or I developed
that limiting belief, that Ineed this big, amazing fantasy
and it has to be bigger andbolder every time.
And as soon as there was adifferent thought coming in, it
was panic in my body, in my mind, and it wasn't enjoyable
anymore.
So I thought, what if I usethese tools to quieten my mind,
(04:51):
to focus on my body and justgive it a go?
And that's what I did and I hadsuch an amazing orgasm without
any fantasies, without anypreparation, without any tension
.
I mean, you have tension whenyou have an orgasm, but it's
this cramping up.
So that wasn't there.
It was just like cool from toesto tip to toes, like I say, it
(05:16):
was just easy, flowing.
And I thought I need to sharethis.
You don't need to know that.
It's in your head.
Whatever you think becomes yourresult.
So when you think that Icontrol myself, I can't have sex
with my partner because I don'tlook a certain way, I don't
(05:38):
behave or move a certain way,etc.
It's in your head and I canhelp you to get past that so
that you can have this builtsexual, intimate life.
And that's how I became thesexual intimacy.
Amy (05:54):
That's wonderful and that seems so important and, like you
said, so many people don't talkabout it or feel that they
shouldn't talk about it or thatit's something that you can't
get help with.
And tell me, when you have aclient that comes to you, how do
(06:14):
you encourage them to open upand to be honest with you,
because I'm sure a lot of peoplehave difficulties with that?
Anna (06:20):
The thing is, when they come to me, they know I'm a
sexual intimacy coach, so theyknow that they come because they
want to have sex and don't haveit.
Currently, the main goal is Iwant to have sex, but I don't
have it.
How can you help?
So they are inclined to talkabout it.
So there isn't muchreinforcement needed or any
(06:43):
persuasion to say, okay, let'stalk about it.
But what there is, on the otherhand, is that some people don't
like to use particular wordspenis, vagina, sex, doggy style,
stuff like that.
So we just use the language thatthey feel comfortable with.
We just give the same thingsdifferent names in the way that
(07:06):
you feel comfortable talkingabout it all day, if needed.
Amy (07:09):
Okay, so that's good.
So you kind of meet them wherethey are.
So when you have a client, andwhether they're there by
themselves or whether they'rethere with a partner, how do you
encourage them to startcommunicating, like you said
already, so they know who youare and what you do and they
(07:32):
know why they're there.
So that makes it easier.
And do you have a lot of?
I guess that was a roundaboutway to get to the question Do
you have a lot of clients thathave trouble communicating with
their partner?
Anna (07:47):
But it's usually due to because they don't know what
they want and they don't knowwhy they are stuck, and you
don't know what you don't know.
So how do you communicatesomething that you don't know?
Yeah, so, of course, a lot ofmy work also entails to just
figure out.
What do you actually want?
What is it that makes you happy?
What is it that stimulates yourbody or mind?
(08:09):
It will keep you推somiet be asit is, and then we move on to
say, okay, how can we bring thisacross in your particular way?
Not in the words that I tellyou to say, but what feels
comfortable to you to say?
I give you a structure, becausethere are particular structures
that are more helpful thesandwich method with positive
(08:34):
solution, positive stuff likethis.
Yes, and you can use those, yes,in that sexual intimacy fields.
Amy (08:41):
Yeah, that's so interesting that you talk about using the
sandwich method for feedback.
I worked in medical educationfor many years and a big part of
that was giving feedback tostudents and doctors and the
sandwich method.
A lot of people say, oh, that'skind of old and tired.
Why should we do this?
It's so important because youwant to give something to
(09:06):
improve on in the middle of thepositive, because in my
perspective and in my work and Iwant to hear what your opinion
is that way the person knowsthat you're not just saying all
the nice things, that there issomething that they can work on
and then it makes the positivefeedback a little more positive
(09:30):
and genuine because they'redoing that.
What would be your opinion onsomething like that?
Anna (09:34):
Yeah, I'll give you an example.
So one of my clients she didn'thave the foreplay that she
would love to have, so we talkedabout it.
So how can you tell yourpartner what you would like to
happen during the foreplay?
And for her, she wanted thather partner squeezes her nipples
(09:59):
so that she has more tractionor just more feeling in it.
So she came up with I love itwhen you touch my breasts.
What I would love even more isif you would like my nipples.
Amy (10:13):
that would give me a lot of pleasure and that ended up
being comfortable for her to saywe got that.
Anna (10:21):
She wasn't used to talking about these things.
Like many of my clients, theyaren't used to talking about
these things with her partners.
They don't even tell themselveswhat they like.
But giving them thisnon-judgmental space to just
let's explore what do you want?
And she wants her nipples to benippled on, fair enough,
(10:46):
whatever floats your boat.
So how can we put that into anice feedback and also give some
improvement suggestion?
And this way?
Her partner knows she loves itwhen I touch her breasts, oh,
and this will make her evenhotter.
Amazing.
Let's do this.
Amy (11:05):
Yeah, that's great.
So it sounds like you reallywork hard to bring a positive
feeling and cultivate thatpositivity towards whatever the
person feels and needs.
Anna (11:19):
Yes, it's very important In any coaching relationship.
It's important to be positiveand show the client that there
is the light at the end of thetunnel, when you are now, this
is just a phase.
This is just the stage right now, thank you, and we move forward
and that is very encouragingand that's what they came for.
(11:43):
They want to get to that light.
So just make it easier, andmaybe not easier, but make it
more fun and enjoyable to getthere, even though it's
sometimes hard work,particularly emotionally and
when you become aware of, oh myGod, I've done it like this all
(12:03):
these years and that's why itdidn't work.
And they might come in someself-shaming or self-blaming.
And then we say, ok, that's OK,we let it come, we let that
feeling come and we let it go.
There's no need to push it awayor to hold on to it, we just
(12:23):
invite it and then send it offagain.
Amy (12:26):
That sounds.
That's a lovely image, talkingabout seeing the light at the
end of the tunnel and knowingit's there.
And I want to talk a little bitabout what you were saying
about people that haveself-blame or self-shame around
sex.
Because, just as a littlepersonal anecdote, I went to
Catholic school and I was taughtabout the rhythm method for
(12:50):
birth control and everythingelse was pretty much.
The only education I got wasnot until you're married.
So it was very difficult atfirst especially when I met my
husband, to figure out all that.
So a lot of other peopleexperience that kind of
self-shaming and self-blame, andnot just in the bedroom.
(13:13):
Where do you think it comes from, and not just in?
Anna (13:15):
the bedroom Any part of their lives.
The thing is when we shouldlook at it like, yes, this is
the sexual part of your life,and when you self-shame and
self-blame in the sexual part ofyour life, you most likely do
it in every other part of yourlife, because you talk to
yourself and you don't stoptalking to yourself when you get
(13:38):
out of the bedroom, when you doyour business, when you talk to
your children, when youinteract with people.
Those sorts are there.
Then self-shaming comes withyou.
Amy (13:53):
We're going to take a quick break.
Our expert guest is AnnaThelman, a sexual intimacy coach
, and we are talking aboutcommunicating in the bedroom.
Be right back, music, welcomeback.
We're here with Anna Thelman.
(14:13):
Anna, I want to take a momentand go back to what you were
talking about with people thatself-shame a lot.
Where do you think it comesfrom that so many people have
that?
Anna (14:26):
trouble.
I want to introduce you to theidea that there is this voice in
your head and let's call it thejudge.
Yes, it's judging us.
And what happened at one pointin your early life?
There was a situation.
It doesn't have to be a trauma,it doesn't have to be anything
(14:48):
big.
It can be just that you askedyour parents something that
turned around and said now youdon't get it and that's where
your judge then came.
And your judge is there toprotect you from emotional harm.
And for that particularsituation, your judge came like
here I am and protect me.
(15:08):
So I'm telling you that it'syou Just go away.
And what happens is we carrythat judge and that judge
becomes many different forms.
So we can be very peoplepleasing, very controlling or
sectionism.
That's one point, a big pointfor many people, that everything
has to be perfect.
(15:28):
And that's that voice, thatjudge, that Because of something
happened when you were a child,it came to protect you.
And while we grow older, whilewe start to think more, while we
get to grow and understandourselves better, we usually
don't need that voice anymore,that protection, but we're so
(15:53):
used to it because it gives usthe comfort and we identify
ourselves with that voice.
So we think this is who I am.
I am a perfectionist.
I hear many people say that Iam a proclamant perfectionist.
That's no you're not.
You haven't been born aperfectionist.
(16:14):
Something happened that gaverise to that voice that wants to
protect you.
And so far you haven't learnedto let go of that voice, to
quieten that voice, because wedon't want to get rid of it, we
just want to quieten it so tolet out the more positive
thoughts, the more self-assuring, self-compassionate thoughts.
(16:38):
But right now, that other voice, that self-blaming,
self-shaming voice, is so loudthat it insects every area of
our life, every decision we make.
It's so dominant and I teach myclients to quieten that voice
(16:59):
so that we can give rise to thepositivity, to the
self-compassion, to see whatelse is there underneath that
self-shame and self-name.
And it's so amazing to see,when you quieten that voice, so
many other thoughts come to mindthat you, where are they coming
(17:19):
from?
Because it's so quiet and nowyour mind is free to just create
, and creation is usuallypositive, positivity, positive,
and it moves you forward Becauseyou want to improve yourself,
you want to achieve your goals,you want to get to that night.
Amy (17:46):
Yeah, wow, that's a beautiful explanation.
I really like that Because,yeah, I can see if I'm having a
rough day.
I can criticize myself oneverything from how I pick out
fruit at the grocery store tomore important things on the
agenda.
But it's really nice to hearyou acknowledge and accommodate
(18:14):
the fact that that's somethingthat people have everywhere, on
all levels, and to address thatinstead of just saying well, I
could see some coaches I'veknown some coaches that are very
I'll use the word precise inwhat they do and they're like
(18:35):
well, you're here to fix thisproblem, I'll fix this problem
and that's it.
Thank you very much, and itsounds like that you really pay
attention to the entire gamut ofwhat's going on, so that this
individual problem isn't justfixed in the bedroom but is
(18:56):
fixed for their entire life.
I'm not here.
Anna (19:00):
My job isn't to fix your problem.
My job is to help you so youcan fix any problem in your life
.
Amy (19:10):
Wow, that's really that's what we're doing, so that we
work together.
Anna (19:16):
my programs are six months long because I want to build
you up your confidence up inyourself.
So when you leave my program,that you know when shit hits the
fan excuse my French, I candeal with it.
No, it might be tough, I mightcry.
(19:37):
Whatever happens, I can dealwith it.
Wow.
Amy (19:43):
So would you say that a lot of people get more than they
bargained for when they sign upfor one of your courses?
Anna (19:49):
I don't see it that way, it's just like Mm-hmm.
Amy (19:55):
I see it in a very good way , in that they might think that
they're just coming in to talkabout one thing.
But, like you said, that reallyresonated with me when you said
to fix any problem.
Anna (20:06):
Yeah.
Amy (20:06):
Yeah, on your own.
You know, you might think, well, I'm coming to see Anna because
I want to have a good orgasm,and but it seems like there's so
much more than that.
Anna (20:17):
Yes but, the thing is, when my clients come to me, they
have that particular situationin mind.
So they are missing sex andthat's their main focus to get
that orgasm back, to have thatsexual intimate relationship.
And it's like when you go andyou want to lose weight, you go
(20:41):
to someone who helps youparticularly with losing weight,
because that's your problem,let's call it.
Even though it's not a problem,it's just something in your
mind that you think, whoa, youneed to do this.
But you look for those peoplewho help you with that, and even
those will give you tools thatyou can use in every area of
(21:04):
your life.
Like, yeah, if you want yourorgasm back, we talk about sex,
we talk about orgasms, we talkabout all of that that's
important to you and, inaddition, you can handle your
life after Much easier.
Amy (21:19):
I wanted to go back to something you mentioned in
people policing, and that thereare a lot of people that feel.
You know, in my opinion there'sthousands upon thousands of
people who feel that that's agood and valid way to
communicate is by always puttingthe other person first and that
(21:41):
if the other person is feelinggood, whether that's business or
in the bedroom, then they havesucceeded and they feel good
about that.
So when you meet a client,that's a people pleaser is there
a particular way that you goabout working?
Anna (21:56):
with them.
Usually, when they come to me,they are not aware that they are
people pleaser, like manypeople aren't aware that they
are pleasing people, and we getto the root of that step by step
.
And what happens when you are apeople pleaser is that what you
do is usually connected to anexpectation that you have.
(22:21):
So you're nice, I'm nice to Amy, I'm here at her podcast and I
want her to promote me so I getmore clients.
So I'm being very nice to you,so that you are nice to me,
gotcha.
The other thing is that it'scoming back to that voice in our
head, to that judge, becausemany of us are trained to
(22:47):
believe that when we think aboutourselves first, it's a bad
thing.
We have to think about theothers Only.
When we are in service toothers, we are happy.
And that sentence.
In itself that's correct,because it makes you happy to
help others.
What's missing is that you pullfrom an empty cow.
(23:12):
So what you're giving isconnected to expectations, is
connected to, probably, a lackof happiness and lack of purpose
.
It might be fear.
So there's some sort of I callit negative attachment in this
(23:34):
way.
That's why you want to pleasepeople, and when you turn it
around and when you fill yourcup first, when you look after
yourself first.
It doesn't mean you go away fora weekend to ignore everyone.
It just means, like settingyour boundaries, saying no,
occasionally, have a box, dosomething that makes you happy
(23:59):
no one else, just you and that'show you fill up that cup.
And when you do that, you willbe so in tune with yourself.
You will be so passionate andcompassionate about yourself so
you don't have the need forthose expectations anymore,
(24:20):
because you're just here sayingI love myself, I love you.
Let's love the world, yeah.
Amy (24:29):
And it doesn't matter.
I like that.
Let's love the world.
Yeah, and it doesn't matterwhat comes back.
Anna (24:33):
It doesn't matter.
You're not waiting for anyfeedback.
You're not waiting for I knowclients you look for on social
media.
How many likes or etc.
Do you get?
Yeah, because there is a lack.
They serve, but they stillexpect.
When you just serve, serveyourself first.
(24:57):
Then, when your cup isoverflowing, there's so much
more for the rest of us.
Amy (25:04):
So, anna, tell me how can potential clients get in touch
with you if they would like tolearn more?
Anna (25:08):
Well, they can send me an email.
My email is Anna@annathellmann.
com .
They find me on LinkedIn underAnna Thellmann, or on Facebook,
same Anna Thellmann.
Well, they can have a look atmy websites, annathellmanncom.
Amy (25:29):
All right, I have all those links in the show notes
available for you and Anna, Ican't thank you enough for being
here today and bringing ourconversation about communication
to a new level.
I think the main things thatI'm personally going to take
away are what you said about thelight at the end of the tunnel
(25:50):
and knowing the light is there,Just as you mentioned.
That's something you can applyto anything, not just the
bedroom, and I'm certainly goingto take away the thought of the
judge and try to work ongetting my judge to be better at
talking to me.
I think that's really importanttoo.
(26:12):
I appreciate it so much.
Thank you for being here today.
Thank you for giving me the time.
Thank you, and thanks to ouraudience for listening today.
If you like what you hear,please leave us a review, join
us on Facebook or Instagram, orcheck out our website at
wwwsavvycomunicatorcom.
We'll see you next time.
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