September 24, 2023 • 43 mins
Picture this – a soldier turned comedian and leadership trainer who brings laughter in boardrooms and classrooms alike. Join me, Amy Flanagan, as I sit down with the wonderful Mike Goodwin on the Savvy Communicator podcast, where we dance on the fine line of humor, leadership, and building connections. Discover how this military man turned his life's direction, inspired by a colleague at church, and ventured into comedy, seamlessly integrating it into his leadership training.
We all know the power of a good laugh, but Mike takes it a notch higher. He takes us on a journey of how he uses humor to bridge gaps and form bonds, transcending the barriers of profession and age. Through his narrative, we explore how comedy can be adapted to different contexts, making communication an enjoyable experience. Navigating through his comedy journey, Mike gives us a peep into the highs and lows, the laughter, and the silent rooms, emphasizing the significance of preparation and diligence.
But it's not all smooth sailing. Imagine performing for an Amish crowd or standing under the spotlight of America's Got Talent. Sounds nerve-wracking, right? Hear straight from Mike how he braved these uncertain speaking situations, armed with self-confidence, trust, and a well-prepared presentation. Tune in for an episode that promises not just fits of laughter but a wealth of wisdom on communication, leadership, and making the most of humor. Be ready to charge your day with chuckles and insights.
You can find out more about Mike at www.mikegoodwin.com
This is a show where ideas come together. The guest statements expressed on The Savvy Communicator Podcast are their own and not necessarily the views of The Savvy Communicator.
Thanks for joining us! Become part of the conversation at www.savvycommunicator.com, and follow me on social media: my handle is @savvycommunicator.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi and welcome to the Savvy Communicator podcast.
I'm your host, amy Flanagan.
Today's question is anothergood one how do you bring
laughter into leadership?
This is a place where wediscuss all things communication
, facial expressions, bodylanguage and, most importantly,
(00:22):
how to talk when you're not surewhat to say.
Our expert guest today is MrMike Goodwin.
He is a comedian and aleadership trainer.
He has worked for several yearsand everything from keynote
speeches to teaching businesseshow to improve their leadership
qualities.
Mike, thank you so much forbeing here today.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Thanks for the invitation.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Absolutely so.
When I saw your post on thepodcast forum, I just jumped
because I knew that I had totalk to you and find out all of
this.
So, did you start with comedyor?
Speaker 2 (00:59):
did you start with leadership training?
I started probably with thegreatest leadership training
ever.
I joined the army right out ofhigh school.
So I went into the UnitedStates military at the tender
age of 18 years old.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
And this was many, many years ago.
So I did that was fillartillery, so basically working
in the field with cannons,munitions.
From there I got out of themilitary.
Well, didn't get out totally,but got out of active duty, went
to college, attended collegefor four years and then there I
(01:38):
kind of continued, continueddeveloping my leadership ability
and skill, went and got amasters in higher ed
administration and all along theway still was in the serving
and then got married right aftercollege.
So I've been a husband for 23years and a father for 16 of the
(02:00):
23.
And I found comedy, or comedyfound me, as I was working at a
independent school as thecollege counselor.
A little bit of a transitionfrom one job.
I was working at the Universityof South Carolina in student
affairs.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
I took this other position.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
But that was the kind of the genesis of my comedy
career around that time of mylife.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
So that's wonderful, so really.
I was looking at your websiteand you've really worked in all
levels of education, fromprimary school all the way
through college, right.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
So yeah, what was that?
Speaker 1 (02:40):
like for you.
How did you go from one to theother?
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Well, my goal was to be a college senior
administrator.
That's what I desired to be.
I always wanted to attendcollege.
College changed the trajectoryof my life.
I was raised in a kind of a lowmiddle class family.
No one in attended college inmy immediate family, and so I
realized that I wanted to pursuea college degree.
(03:06):
I think that was, you know kindof the American dream get a
degree and get a job and have ahouse with 2.5 children.
And when I got to college and Ijust spent four years in the
military so I dove intoeverything, I was actively
(03:26):
involved in student government,student orientation, I was
joined the fraternity, I was aresident assistant, I was a tour
guide.
I mean, I just did all thethings that they were for you to
do.
And I had aspirations ofbecoming a litigator, a lawyer.
I was in political science,going to go to law school, get a
(03:49):
degree and fight for the littleman.
And I started looking at what Iwas doing on campus.
It's like man, I really enjoyworking on campus.
And I remember thinking aboutthe dean of students.
I was like I wonder how he gotthat job.
That seems like an interestingjob.
So I went to the dean ofstudents and said, hey, how did
(04:12):
you get to where you were?
And he told me about the fieldof student affairs, student
personnel services, and so hetook me to a conference and I
was hooked.
That kind of led me on myeducational journey.
So when I was working, I workedat the University of South
(04:33):
Carolina in multiculturalstudent affairs leadership
programs, the visitor center.
Well, there was a gentleman Iwas in graduate school with that
worked at an independent schoolin town and they were looking
for a college counselor.
And we met and he told me thejob description.
(04:53):
I went in, visited campus and Iwas like man, I could really
see myself here because I wasthe liaison for the school to
colleges and I wanted to stayconnected with colleges and I
saw a way to do that and so Iaccepted their position.
And yeah, at Heathwood HallEpiscopal School that's where I
(05:14):
was working they were K4 through12.
And you were able to see thelittle ones.
My daughter actually startedschool there when I was working,
so that was my connection fromevery phase of the educational
system.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Wow, that's wonderful .
Just let the audience know,mike and I are from the same
hometown, so, as he's talkingabout USC or Heathwood Hall or
everything, I'm going, yes, andI was an RA too.
So I was like, yes, so tell me,because I think there's so much
mystery kind of about how toconnect with students.
(05:55):
You know it's something that isvery much in the students'
hands and they decide if they'vebeen connected with or not.
But how did you face thatparticular challenge?
Speaker 2 (06:06):
I think that the way I connected, I think the reason
I was interested in working on acampus is because I'm a first
generation college student, so Iknew that there were some
unique challenges for folks thatwere in my position and I
wanted to be a representation ofan administrator that has
(06:28):
walked similar paths.
I joined the Army and then wentto college.
So those students I wanted tobe a resource for students that
were prior service and I thinkthat's why I led with my
connection.
I wanted to connect withstudents that I saw a bit of
myself inside of and I thinkthat was my first way to connect
(06:54):
.
And when I started working,especially at the university
level, I was not that far fromtheir age, which presented a
little bit of challenge with mysupervisor.
If you were to talk to mysupervisor at the time, he would
have felt that I was tooconnected, that the students
felt like I was too much of anadvocate or a person that they
(07:18):
could hang out with and I reallyhad to set up some boundaries
professionally to make it lookas though it was wild, because
it wasn't.
It was a benefit, but in theprofessional world it looked
like a fraternizing.
(07:38):
It didn't look to be.
I was just making real,authentic connections, but it
just looked like, hey man, youjust hanging out with the
students all the time.
So that presented aninteresting challenge for me.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
Oh yeah, that's so tough because you know, in my
opinion, that's what kids need.
They need somebody that isthere, sometimes in the
background and sometimes in theforeground, but somebody that's
there that they know they can goto wherever.
And it's unfortunate that theystarted to look at it that way,
(08:16):
because I know I'm sure you weredoing a lot of good there with.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Yeah, and one of the things that happened and I
didn't realize it too much laterI started dressing older, so I
was always in suits and I'm aguy that is very cognizant of my
appearance and I want todisplay a real dapper appearance
(08:42):
.
But I think I sped up what Iwould have been traditional,
where I was always in suits,because I was trying to create
some type of separation from meand students.
So if you looked out and yousaw a guy in a suit and then
everyone else were co-ed, youwould say oh oh, that he's
(09:06):
different from those guys.
So that's the way that I thinkI tried to fit into whatever my
supervisor was communicating tome about professionalism.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
Sure, and that's just one way of communication.
Sometimes we don't go and justverbally say all the things.
Sometimes it's through a symbol, like wearing a suit, or
wearing a particular name tagsor a big one.
A lot of times Name tagsdesignate.
(09:39):
I'm here in this place and youhave to know my name, so I'm
wearing it in front of everybody.
So comedy found you, huh.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Yeah, it did.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Yeah, well, tell me about that.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Interesting enough, I've always had a great sense of
humor and my unfortunatelyunfortunately my sense of humor
came.
It comes from a very dark place.
I grew up in a verydysfunctional home and my
parents would often argue andget into physical and verbal
(10:13):
disagreements.
And I remember being abouteight and my parents had gotten
into this altercation and aftereverything had calmed down, I
just remembered thinking now Ineed to do something to make my
mother laugh.
I just really needed to breakthe tension.
See my mother with a smile onher face.
(10:34):
I think that would solve someof the issues.
I mean, this is what my eightyear old mind is telling me and
I did it.
I did something and it made mymother laugh.
So I knew that whenever myparents would have disagreements
, I would just go into my act,so to speak.
So I wasn't the class clown.
I wasn't a person that peoplewere like oh, he was always the
(11:00):
spotlight, he was the star ofthe drama team or any of those
things.
I just had a very difficultscenario that I figured out how
to use humor to help break thetension, which has led me to
working with folks andorganizations to use humor as a
(11:21):
leadership tool to break tension, have difficult conversations,
to help people feel morecomfortable and dynamic in their
presentation and communicationon stage.
So I've taken that comedy pieceand it's been throughout the
course of my life.
It's sort of like I've alwaysbeen interested in leadership.
(11:41):
I've always been interested inlaughter.
So I'm kind of like the Reese'sPieces where you got the
chocolate and the peanut butter.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
And I've tried.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
I've tried to just be comedy and I've tried to just
be leadership and it doesn't fitme.
I need to have those bothmerged together.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
Yeah Well, it seems like a great combination and it
seems like something that youknow I don't know that anybody
else is doing is putting thesethings together, which I think
really makes you unique.
You know, you've been on BET,you've been on Peacock and
you've been all over the US andbeyond doing this skill.
So even from a young age, youfound that you were already
(12:22):
calculating jokes.
Okay, this one hit, this onedidn't.
This one is gonna work.
File this one away for adifferent circumstance, kind of
thing Is that would you saythat's what it was like.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
Yeah, it was what's been very.
It's always been an interestingjourney at every stage of it.
But I think the mosteye-opening part about humor in
my life humor was once aliability and then it
automatically became an asset,like I just.
(12:55):
I can remember it's likepre-high school, post-high, like
high school, post-high school.
Comedy was something different.
In high school and below it washey, you can't sit.
Still, you always got somethingto say.
You think everything's funny,like it just was a negative
(13:15):
connotation.
And then, once I became an adult, I could remember sitting in
interviews, even for internshipsor opportunities, and folks
would say, oh my goodness, youhave such a charismatic
personality, your humor's sogreat.
It was like what happened, Likethe thing that was the most
(13:37):
negative thing is now the mostpositive.
And it took me and I stillthink I have some mindset to
work with because all thenegative messages that I've
received about humor over thecourse of my life- yeah, yeah,
(13:57):
that is so basically, one ofyour huge gifts was coming out
at such a young age and you werebeing told just to ignore it.
Right, it's like being asuperhero.
You're a mutant.
You're a mutant right, yes.
You're strong, you're too fast,but oh, you can stop this meteor
from hitting the earth.
You're the best of all, and Ialso had to learn how to handle
(14:24):
the superpower.
I had to learn how to operatewith it, because there is a such
thing as appropriate humor.
I talk to schools.
I go to talk to students andone of the first things I'll say
especially I think there was amiddle school that brought me in
and one of the first things Isaid is that, hey, man, I
understand your teachers lie toyou all the time and people like
(14:45):
whoa, what is it?
Huh.
It's like yeah it's kindadifficult, and so I would, and
the teachers would look in it'slike everybody have everybody
attention.
And I said imagine thisscenario something funny happens
in class, everyone laughs.
And what does your teacher say?
Speaker 1 (15:02):
That's not funny, not funny.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Then their teacher leave the same classroom, walk
down the hall and will tell acolleague you won't believe the
most hilarious thing that justhappened.
And so it's not that it's notfunny, it's not appropriate at
this particular time.
So I think that was the piecethat I had to kind of get some
clarity around, and I often inmy presentations I say comedy is
(15:27):
neutral, comedy is like money.
The issue is is what you decideto do with it.
You can take comedy and you canbe belittling, you can be
insulting, you can be negative.
Or you can take comedy and youcan be inspiring, motivating and
build community.
And that's what I try to dowith my humor is to bridge gaps
(15:47):
and not put up barriers.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Oh, that's so true.
I love that example that yougave.
I was a teacher for a while tooand, yes, the first thing
somebody says something or doessomething you have to be like
stop, yeah, we're payingattention to something, and I
would.
I would go right down the halland I was like you will never
believe what just happens, butit wasn't appropriate.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
It was funny, right, it wasn't appropriate, and
there's an appropriateness tohumor.
Often this is the other thingthat I talk about in corporate
settings, because we're not veryskilled in humor, we bring that
same sense of humor toeverything.
Like we are, who we are, andwhat happens in the workplace is
you bring inside jokes to anoutside relationship, and so now
(16:34):
the way that you're engagingwith humor is how you would
engage with your friends andyour family.
But those people know you, theylove you, they've been in your
life for years.
These people at your job, theydon't know you, they know the
word version of you, and soyou're bringing in your college
sense of humor and it's like no,let's cultivate a relationship,
(16:58):
then we can start bringing inhumor.
But if you, if you start, andthen that's when you find
yourself saying like, well, Iwasn't trying to hurt anyone,
you know you're doing all thisapologizing and what you should
lead with is relationship andnot with jokes.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
Oh, that's just fascinating, that's.
I love that explanation.
It makes so much sense and oneof the things that I teach when
I teach communication is talkingabout how.
A lot of times and I'd love tohear your opinion on this a lot
of times communication is atrial and error process.
(17:35):
We try one thing and if it hitsthat's great, and but it can
also be frightening becausewe're not sure what we did that
got it to hit.
And if it doesn't work, it'svery frightening because then we
don't know what to do again,and I would imagine that that is
, you know, a skill that you'rebalancing all the time.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
That's the essence of stand-up comedy, and it's also
not just performing it butwriting it.
Unlike music, I can't play asong in a room and like, oh,
that's a good song.
Like the only way that I knowthat comedy is good is if I say
it in front of people.
There's no other way, there'sno other barometer, there's no
(18:19):
other measure.
Then, if I open my mouth infront of a group of people and
someone laughs like that's it.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
And that's very daunting.
And then, much like you weresaying, it's trial and error and
the more you do it, the moreyou understand the danger or the
more you're better able torecover.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
And then the more sensitive you are.
But yeah, you're absolutelycorrect and the benefit that we
have with communication is wealways are doing it.
Yes, we're always communicating.
We may not know that or haveformalized that in our brain.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Yeah, I think you're so right, because we have to
communicate everything every dayand, like you talked about
wearing the suit, that's a typeof communication it might be.
I work with a lot of medicalstudents and I tell them that
people will have an emotionalreaction to everything that you
(19:21):
do, said the way you come intothe room, the way you hang up
your coat, the way you sit down.
That may not be fair, butthat's what's happening and I'm
sure when you step out on thatstage you must be feeling that
as well.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
That's interesting because I think about this as it
relates to comedy, but I justsaw it as you were explaining it
about the medical field.
Like people come to anappointment with subjective
thoughts of doctors, like theyalready feel the way that they
feel about doctors, and eitheryou have to work through that or
that serves as a benefit foryou.
(19:56):
Comedy is the same way.
If I say comedy in your brainyou're always thinking something
you don't come to comedy with ablank slate you already have.
And that's another challenge inthe workplace because when you
say comedy, people thinknightclub eclairs, alcohol, you
think the Vegas.
You know I'm a wild and crazyguy.
(20:18):
You're not thinking this guy isa keynote speaker and he builds
community, you know, you justit's very subjective and comedy
much like the ability to selectyour physician, you control that
so the whole entire room couldbe laughing.
You're like I don't thinkthat's funny and you're
absolutely right, like you'rethe judge and jewelry of how you
(20:42):
feel.
And that's very insightful fordoctors because people just have
.
We've watched television showswith doctors, we've had
experience with doctors over theyears.
We come into that relationshipalready with a set of
expectations or already knowingoh this is how this is going to
be.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
Yeah, yeah, you're so right and that's flipping
through Netflix.
If you look at the comedy andyou look at the photo and you're
like, oh, I don't know, thatdoesn't seem funny, you know?
Oh well, he uses language, or.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
OK, this is what I could do this.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
one looks funny.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
I saw something on Facebook recently.
I'm sorry that was justinfuriating.
And it was the question and Iget it, it was the engagement.
I saw the comments, but thequestion was what comedian do
you not find funny?
And I was like why are y'alldoing this?
Like.
I was like come on, man, that'snot funny.
Yeah, but these folks are theexpert.
(21:43):
If I say that's not funny to me, you're absolutely correct.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Yes, yeah, you're 100% correct.
You're listening to the SavvyCommunicator podcast.
Our guest is Mike Goodwin,comedian and leadership trainer.
We'll be right back.
Yeah, welcome back to the SavvyCommunicator.
(22:10):
Again, we're talking with MikeGoodwin, comedian and leadership
trainer.
So, mike, I really am dying toknow what was your initial foray
into comedy.
How did that start?
Speaker 2 (22:22):
Great question.
What happened is very.
I guess everybody's story isalways interesting.
So I wasn't a kid that peopleare like, oh, you should do
comedy.
I wasn't the kid that saw afamous comedian on television.
I was like I'm going to be thatguy.
That's just what.
That wouldn't how it happenedfor me.
I always had a great sense ofhumor.
I thought I was a more improvtype guy.
(22:45):
I didn't think I had content.
Just get on stage and talk andpeople.
That just seemed wild to me.
But I loved comedy.
I'm like a comedy fan, I'm likethe hair club for me, and not
only am I a client, I'm thepresident.
I don't know how I'm going to bepresident, but I am a user so I
enjoy like I laugh.
Even if you one of the most toknow me to see me in a comedy
(23:11):
setting, you would think thatthe comedians was paying me the
way that I laugh.
I always say when I go on stageone of the things I hate is
that I'm not in the audiencelaughing, because I'm a very
engaged laugher.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
But what?
Speaker 2 (23:26):
happened for me.
It happened at my church.
So I was working in the mediaministry at my church and this
comedian joined our church.
He was a guy that was doingcomedy, but he was doing secular
comedy and really wanted to notbe who he was on stage.
At the time I wanted to stop,clean up his acts, so to speak.
(23:47):
So he joined our church and wewere serving together in the
media ministry and I would justrun ideas by him.
I would say, hey, man, what doyou think about this, what do
you think about that?
And we would laugh and he kindof allowed me to do this for
about 30 days and then finallyone day he said look, man, you
have some really good contentthat you were telling me.
(24:07):
He said I'm going to give youtwo options.
He said I can do this materialthat you are sharing with me and
I'm going on stage and do it.
And I'm not going to give youany money.
He said you can go on stage anddo this material and you can get
the money, and so I was like Iguess I'm going on stage Pretty
(24:28):
much got debolded onto stage,bullied me on the stage and
that's how I got started.
And I started at a New Year'sEve service at my church and I
was surprised and people didn'tknow I was going to be doing it
and I went up and I did the mostwonderful seven minutes
standing ovation.
It was a Hollywood story typeof event.
(24:52):
Then I went on the road doingit and I bombed for the next two
years and I got to the placewhere I knew I could be good.
I knew I had the ability, butit just wasn't happening.
And I realized that there weresome things that I was doing
(25:17):
that wasn't causing myperformances to work.
And I remember after one eventI just was like I got to, I got
to do better.
And I remember having aconversation with God.
I was like hey, this is notworking out like this, like I
know I'm supposed to be doingthis.
And what I heard and felt wasyou're not doing this for the
(25:44):
audience, you're doing it foryourself.
Like I was on stage for my goodone and it clicked.
Like you're not talking topeople, you're not looking
people in there, you're on a big, big stage, there's peacocking
around, and so I made the change.
I made, like this shift in OK,I need to start making
(26:08):
connections with the audience.
And I also knew that all theseleadership principles, like I
knew, all of these things that Ihad employed in my personal and
professional life, so why don'tI use these principles to
improve my comedy performance.
So I started looking atleadership principles, like one
(26:31):
of the first ones that I adoptedwas the idea of being diligent.
I just wasn't as diligent as Ishould have been in my comedy.
I thought I looked at comedysort of like a hobby, looked at
it like, oh, if nothing else isgoing on, I'll get over there to
it.
I thought about what you know.
(26:52):
One of my favorite Movies wasthe karate kid and I kind of had
the same.
I had the same attitude theDaniel's son had when he wanted
to learn karate, like he wantedto fight and he wanted to punch
and kick but he didn't want tolearn how to wax on.
Wax off, wax on and wax off.
(27:13):
So that was the component thatI was missing in my comedy
pressure preparation.
I wasn't Preparing, I wasn'tbeing diligent, I wasn't
researching, I wasn't thinkingabout the audience.
And who were these people thatI'm gonna be speaking to?
What?
What are their needs, what aretheir concerns?
What is their life like?
(27:33):
I'll just would jump on stageand Do some warmed-up version of
what I thought a Comedy set wasyeah so once I started
implementing those principles,you know I was being diligent.
The next one was I was beingpresent and Showing up there
wherever my feet were, asopposed to being on stage
(27:55):
thinking about why am I not onbigger stages or why didn't I
get the opportunity that otherpeople got, and Just not it
being distracted, just nothonking in in the moment, being
grateful, being appreciative,serving right where I was.
And so that really Changed.
Because what was interesting?
(28:16):
Once I became more diligent, Igot better.
But then, when I got, better Igot more entitled.
Yeah, I started not Thinkingabout them, I started thinking
about me.
Then I had to.
I had to reel that in andbecome present, and then the
principle I talk about a lot isbeing generous.
(28:37):
That also helped me in terms ofstand up, because it's not a
very generous environment.
Entertainment is not a placewhere Folks are wrapping their
arms around you and showing youthe way.
It's a yeah, dog world type ofscenario and I wanted to go
against the grain and then beand be generous.
So I implemented leadershipprinciples To help me become a
(29:03):
world-class communicator.
And I was bad like I did.
I'm you know.
People see me now Like, oh it'sso funny.
I was bad, I was very bad.
I'm not being humble, I'm notbeing modest.
I was not good and I worked anddeveloped and grew to become
better and so I feel veryconfident, not only if I if it
(29:25):
works for me, it can work forothers.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
Yes, I think so, so I was just taking notes while you
were speaking about beingdiligent and then being present.
I like what you said aboutbeing where your feet were, yeah
, and just in that place timeand then being generous.
You know, which is, like yousaid, is so Uncommon in the
performance world?
I was an actor for 15 years, soI know exactly what you're
(29:48):
talking about on that.
You know people will just, youknow, leave you in the dust and
walk on by.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
You know, can you do for me?
What have you done for melately?
I mean, yeah, I had it toooften.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
So I want to ask this next question, and I'm not sure
how to ask it, so it might notcome across correctly.
The first time when you Areworking and doing your comedy in
leadership training, do youever encounter resistance?
Speaker 2 (30:20):
All the time people.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
You know how do you deal with that all the time.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
Comedy is resistance, even if, if, even if people are
there to laugh, there's still aresistance of I don't know this
person.
Is he really funny like?
And to see me, you're notthinking funny.
That's not the first thing.
You know I am is a veryscholarly looking gentlemen.
(30:46):
I don't have the and I don'tknow what a comedian looks like,
but it doesn't look like me,like I don't look like when I
show up.
You're not thinking, oh man,this might be a good time.
You're thinking like, oh, I'mabout to get my taxes done.
This guy's about to give me agreat lecture on On World War
two, like I just don't have thatinitial.
(31:09):
Hey, this is a wild and crazytime, guy Mm-hmm, I think the
resistance is always present.
I think, as a communicator andit's a comedian, that this is
one of the tips or tricks, that,but you have to be careful.
But self deprecation, I thinkthat's one of the things that I
would do.
And it could be man, I'm alittle overdressed here tonight.
(31:32):
And then people like, oh okay,mm-hmm, he's acknowledged that
he's a suit and everybody elseis maybe more business casual.
I don't take myself soseriously.
You know, take shots atyourself, so speak, but not to
undermine your authority andyour, your Expertise.
But there's ways to just say,man, you know I don't have it
(31:55):
all together.
Yeah and when you communicatethat People immediately, I don't
like this guy.
I mean it's immediate.
I, oh, I can connect with that.
How many folks got up on thewrong side of the bed this
morning Like, ok, everybodydidn't, but there's some people
that did.
Speaker 1 (32:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
Like that you said that you feel.
You know, I think honesty issomething that you do to make
connection and you have to bemeasured.
You know, I just got anargument with my wife.
You be like whoa guy, we don'teven know you like, wait a
minute, that's a little too much.
But a level of transparencyalways alleviates resistance.
(32:43):
For me I make people laugh.
Like if I make you laugh inthat first 60 seconds I'm able
to eliminate much of thatresistance because, and
especially by the end of fiveminutes, you have a good gauge
of what's going to happen.
Like even if you were like Iwasn't prepared to laugh.
Is this going to be appropriateand inappropriate?
(33:06):
But in the five minutes you'relike oh man, this is a husband,
this you know.
I've said something to mychildren.
I'm like I'm from SouthCarolina.
We use I say I'm from the Southwith an F and not a T H, and
now people laugh and it is justoh man, it's my good, it's my
guy, it's my honey.
So yeah, that's the kind of waythat I win folks over and try
(33:31):
to eliminate resistance.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
That's great.
That's great.
Transparency alleviatesresistance.
I really like that.
I think that is anexceptionally clear way to do it
, which would clear, would alsobe transparent, right, and it's
something that we all can do.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
Here's another tip, because folks that are listening
to your podcasts arecommunicators.
You don't have to be a stand upcomedian to be funny.
Like the level in which wejudge, comedians and speakers
are not even on the samestrategy, sure.
So just to add one or two bitsof humor into your presentation
(34:10):
is gold.
Like, most folks come topresentations like this is going
to be good information, butthey're not going to think, oh,
this is going to be an awesomeexperience.
Like, oh, I'm going to learnsomething new.
Ok, now you've taught themsomething new and they laugh.
They're like wait a minute,this was.
This is pretty good yeah.
So, I think there's acommunicator.
(34:31):
When you hear humor or comedyin your presentation, don't
think you got to do an HBOspecial or a Netflix special.
Just think, man, I need threetimes through the course of an
hour where people smile or laughLike that's a very low bar to a
couple, ok.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
Yeah, that feels doable because I know there are
times.
You know, I think, like mostpeople, I enjoy being funny and
I think, like many people, I'mnot very good at it.
And it's funny in my house.
We grew up with very dry senseof humor.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
Right right.
Speaker 1 (35:05):
And then you go tell somebody a joke with that dry
sense of humor and they can justbe taken aback and be like wow,
that sounds really scary.
Instead of being funny.
Right, right, but that's a goodgoal because it's just when you
say something just off the cuffand everybody laughs.
It's one of the most wonderfulfeelings it's gold in the world.
Speaker 2 (35:27):
One of the things I do, because comedy is a surprise
, right?
So one of the things I do isvery, very low, low entry when
you check into a.
You check into a hotel andthey're doing their deal.
They're telling you aboutcontinental breakfast and
they're saying have you stayedhere before in the gyms, on the
first floor, all that stuff.
They'll say, hey, how many?
(35:48):
You know how many keys wouldyou want me to make?
I'll say some outlandish numberlike 73.
And so number one, it takesthem off their script because
they can't.
You can't hear 73 and say, oh,parking, is you like what?
Yeah.
And so once I have them, I sayyeah, you know, I'm just going
to pass them out downtown, so itjust, but it's that I didn't
(36:11):
write.
That wasn't a very oh, I spenttime right.
It's surprise is the element ofsurprise.
People did not see that coming.
So there's ways that you can dothat.
And I also look at it like ifyou're looking at a program,
it's like a commercial break,like the laugh is a commercial
break.
So you're watching 10 minutes ofan episode.
Put a laugh in there, watchanother 10 minutes, put another
(36:34):
laugh and then you're you'redone.
So it doesn't have to be this.
Oh my goodness, they wereslapping the table and passed
out in the aisles during yourpresentation.
But we always walk away frompresentations that are humorous,
feeling much better yes,initially, and even even me like
(36:55):
I'm funnier in a corporatesetting than I am in a club,
because people did not expect tolaugh, maybe a little bit,
because they say we got acomedian doing a keynote.
So they kind of like, oh, it'sgoing to be funny.
But most times folks are like,oh, that was incredible.
And it was good, but I was likeI'm not doing anything.
(37:16):
It's like oh, my goodness, he'sthe next Tony Robbins.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
It sounds like you're on your way.
It sounds like you are on yourway, so that's great.
So the last question I want toask you is we wrap up.
You know, our tagline at theshow is how to speak when you're
not sure what to say.
And I wanted to ask you haveyou ever been stuck in a
(37:42):
situation where you had no ideawhat to say, whether it's on
stage, whether it's working withsomeone, and how did you deal
with it?
Speaker 2 (37:50):
So many.
I have so many examples.
I wanted to just jump to mine.
I recently this probably hasbeen as recent as this past
Christmas, but it's pretty, it'spretty recent.
So I do a lot of corporate eventand oftentimes folks will have
me in for their holiday banquetdinner event and I was doing
(38:12):
this event in Indiana and it waskind of rural Indiana and you
know, we talked to the personand this company in that they
forgot the particular business.
And I got to the venue and itwas an Amish community, like it
was.
Like I pulled up and they werelike horse and buggies in the
(38:36):
parking lot and I walked in inthe room Like, and they had
mentioned that they were Amishpeople you know some folks that
the Amish work for them and itwas, but they didn't.
When I walked in it was like Iwas the only non-Amish person
there, like it was not.
Oh, there's gonna be.
(38:58):
No, it's like Amish and my goodone.
And so just by the look of itwas just like stark contrast to
kind of what I had put in myhead, like I was gonna be some
folks here.
But I forgot even what theAmish called the.
Just like everyday person mightbe American, like they may just
(39:19):
say that we're.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
Yeah, something like that.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
Yeah, it's like a standard.
And even in the write-up theywere like so the audience is
full of American Amish.
And I was like it didn't reallyresented Like yeah, we're in
America, why wouldn't Americansbe?
But when I got there it wasjust like I was like what, in
what kind of jokes am I?
(39:43):
I don't have any Amish jokes,right and so you could tell I
met the president of theorganization.
I think he had saw me and it'slike oh man, you'd be great and
they would love you.
And so I had like this thoughtand I think I've had this
thought a lot of times when Iget in front of different
(40:03):
audiences, the folks know what Ido and they were expecting me
to do that.
I think oftentimes what happenswhen we lose our train of
thought or we find ourselves ina position where we feel like we
don't know what to do.
We know what to do, we justdon't believe that what we
typically do is gonna connect.
(40:25):
And I just kind of rememberedokay, this guy watched video
like he didn't just throw a dartat a picture on the wall I was
like let's get this guy andbring him in.
So I just found comfort in I dowhat I do.
They know what I do and I'mjust gonna get up on the stage
and do it.
So but I acknowledge theawkwardness of the moment, like
(40:49):
hey, when they said this was anAmish community, I didn't know
the whole community was gonna beat the dinner tonight and so
people were like, oh okay, andafter once you get two or three
laughs, you're feeling supercomfortable.
But I think oftentimes andanother thing that I deal with,
(41:09):
especially as a comedian, oreven speakers probably have the
same thing.
If you've been to a placebefore, you're kind of in your
head about oh, I don't wanna saythe same thing, I don't wanna
be a copy of the last time I washere and most times they don't
even remember some of the thingsthat you said.
So, if you have a preparedpresentation, you're gonna be
(41:33):
fine.
Just do the thing that you doand you'll be fine.
Yeah, I just find comfort infalling back on your training,
so to speak.
Speaker 1 (41:44):
Yeah, and I think what's another thing that's
coming through is just the ideaof trusting yourself and
trusting that you have thatstructure, that you've built
that structure.
Speaker 2 (41:55):
Right.
Speaker 1 (41:55):
You know through all your years of training and
working and experiencing andthat everybody can build that
structure, and then that's gonnabe there for you.
Speaker 2 (42:06):
Right and yeah.
And you, just you, just in thatmoment of apprehension and
anxiety, just remember, oh, I'vedone this a thousand times.
I mean, I was on America's GotTalent and there's a moment
where they ask you questions andit's like all right, mike, do
your thing.
And it's like okay, I've beendoing standup for seven years
(42:31):
this is nothing new Like I'mhere.
I'm just in front of Simon Howe,like I'm just Simon Howe or
Howie.
You know that's a littledisorienting, but I've talked
into a microphone in front of agroup of people before.
Let's do.
Speaker 1 (42:49):
Oh, that's fantastic.
That's fantastic.
Did they laugh?
Speaker 2 (42:52):
They did.
I got the four yeses.
Speaker 1 (42:56):
Ah, congratulations.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
Yeah, it was quite the experience.
Speaker 1 (43:00):
Yeah, I bet it was.
Listen, not many people getthat.
Speaker 2 (43:04):
Right.
Speaker 1 (43:04):
Mike Goodwin, comedian and leadership trainer.
It has been an absolutepleasure to have you on the
Savvy Communicator today.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
I've had a wonderful time.
Speaker 1 (43:13):
Me too.
Thanks so much for joining ustoday.
Our guest has been Mike Goodwin.
You can reach him atMikeGoodwin G-O-O-D-W-I-Ncom.
Definitely check him out, seeeverywhere that he's been, and
thanks for spending time with ustoday.
We'll see you next time.
Hi and welcome to the Savvy Communicator podcast.
I'm your host, amy Flanagan.
Today's question is anothergood one how do you bring
laughter into leadership?
This is a place where wediscuss all things communication
, facial expressions, bodylanguage and, most importantly,
(00:22):
how to talk when you're not surewhat to say.
Our expert guest today is MrMike Goodwin.
He is a comedian and aleadership trainer.
He has worked for several yearsand everything from keynote
speeches to teaching businesseshow to improve their leadership
qualities.
Mike, thank you so much forbeing here today.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Thanks for the invitation.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Absolutely so.
When I saw your post on thepodcast forum, I just jumped
because I knew that I had totalk to you and find out all of
this.
So, did you start with comedyor?
Speaker 2 (00:59):
did you start with leadership training?
I started probably with thegreatest leadership training
ever.
I joined the army right out ofhigh school.
So I went into the UnitedStates military at the tender
age of 18 years old.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
And this was many, many years ago.
So I did that was fillartillery, so basically working
in the field with cannons,munitions.
From there I got out of themilitary.
Well, didn't get out totally,but got out of active duty, went
to college, attended collegefor four years and then there I
(01:38):
kind of continued, continueddeveloping my leadership ability
and skill, went and got amasters in higher ed
administration and all along theway still was in the serving
and then got married right aftercollege.
So I've been a husband for 23years and a father for 16 of the
(02:00):
23.
And I found comedy, or comedyfound me, as I was working at a
independent school as thecollege counselor.
A little bit of a transitionfrom one job.
I was working at the Universityof South Carolina in student
affairs.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
I took this other position.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
But that was the kind of the genesis of my comedy
career around that time of mylife.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
So that's wonderful, so really.
I was looking at your websiteand you've really worked in all
levels of education, fromprimary school all the way
through college, right.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
So yeah, what was that?
Speaker 1 (02:40):
like for you.
How did you go from one to theother?
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Well, my goal was to be a college senior
administrator.
That's what I desired to be.
I always wanted to attendcollege.
College changed the trajectoryof my life.
I was raised in a kind of a lowmiddle class family.
No one in attended college inmy immediate family, and so I
realized that I wanted to pursuea college degree.
(03:06):
I think that was, you know kindof the American dream get a
degree and get a job and have ahouse with 2.5 children.
And when I got to college and Ijust spent four years in the
military so I dove intoeverything, I was actively
(03:26):
involved in student government,student orientation, I was
joined the fraternity, I was aresident assistant, I was a tour
guide.
I mean, I just did all thethings that they were for you to
do.
And I had aspirations ofbecoming a litigator, a lawyer.
I was in political science,going to go to law school, get a
(03:49):
degree and fight for the littleman.
And I started looking at what Iwas doing on campus.
It's like man, I really enjoyworking on campus.
And I remember thinking aboutthe dean of students.
I was like I wonder how he gotthat job.
That seems like an interestingjob.
So I went to the dean ofstudents and said, hey, how did
(04:12):
you get to where you were?
And he told me about the fieldof student affairs, student
personnel services, and so hetook me to a conference and I
was hooked.
That kind of led me on myeducational journey.
So when I was working, I workedat the University of South
(04:33):
Carolina in multiculturalstudent affairs leadership
programs, the visitor center.
Well, there was a gentleman Iwas in graduate school with that
worked at an independent schoolin town and they were looking
for a college counselor.
And we met and he told me thejob description.
(04:53):
I went in, visited campus and Iwas like man, I could really
see myself here because I wasthe liaison for the school to
colleges and I wanted to stayconnected with colleges and I
saw a way to do that and so Iaccepted their position.
And yeah, at Heathwood HallEpiscopal School that's where I
(05:14):
was working they were K4 through12.
And you were able to see thelittle ones.
My daughter actually startedschool there when I was working,
so that was my connection fromevery phase of the educational
system.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Wow, that's wonderful .
Just let the audience know,mike and I are from the same
hometown, so, as he's talkingabout USC or Heathwood Hall or
everything, I'm going, yes, andI was an RA too.
So I was like, yes, so tell me,because I think there's so much
mystery kind of about how toconnect with students.
(05:55):
You know it's something that isvery much in the students'
hands and they decide if they'vebeen connected with or not.
But how did you face thatparticular challenge?
Speaker 2 (06:06):
I think that the way I connected, I think the reason
I was interested in working on acampus is because I'm a first
generation college student, so Iknew that there were some
unique challenges for folks thatwere in my position and I
wanted to be a representation ofan administrator that has
(06:28):
walked similar paths.
I joined the Army and then wentto college.
So those students I wanted tobe a resource for students that
were prior service and I thinkthat's why I led with my
connection.
I wanted to connect withstudents that I saw a bit of
myself inside of and I thinkthat was my first way to connect
(06:54):
.
And when I started working,especially at the university
level, I was not that far fromtheir age, which presented a
little bit of challenge with mysupervisor.
If you were to talk to mysupervisor at the time, he would
have felt that I was tooconnected, that the students
felt like I was too much of anadvocate or a person that they
(07:18):
could hang out with and I reallyhad to set up some boundaries
professionally to make it lookas though it was wild, because
it wasn't.
It was a benefit, but in theprofessional world it looked
like a fraternizing.
(07:38):
It didn't look to be.
I was just making real,authentic connections, but it
just looked like, hey man, youjust hanging out with the
students all the time.
So that presented aninteresting challenge for me.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
Oh yeah, that's so tough because you know, in my
opinion, that's what kids need.
They need somebody that isthere, sometimes in the
background and sometimes in theforeground, but somebody that's
there that they know they can goto wherever.
And it's unfortunate that theystarted to look at it that way,
(08:16):
because I know I'm sure you weredoing a lot of good there with.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Yeah, and one of the things that happened and I
didn't realize it too much laterI started dressing older, so I
was always in suits and I'm aguy that is very cognizant of my
appearance and I want todisplay a real dapper appearance
(08:42):
.
But I think I sped up what Iwould have been traditional,
where I was always in suits,because I was trying to create
some type of separation from meand students.
So if you looked out and yousaw a guy in a suit and then
everyone else were co-ed, youwould say oh oh, that he's
(09:06):
different from those guys.
So that's the way that I thinkI tried to fit into whatever my
supervisor was communicating tome about professionalism.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
Sure, and that's just one way of communication.
Sometimes we don't go and justverbally say all the things.
Sometimes it's through a symbol, like wearing a suit, or
wearing a particular name tagsor a big one.
A lot of times Name tagsdesignate.
(09:39):
I'm here in this place and youhave to know my name, so I'm
wearing it in front of everybody.
So comedy found you, huh.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Yeah, it did.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Yeah, well, tell me about that.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Interesting enough, I've always had a great sense of
humor and my unfortunatelyunfortunately my sense of humor
came.
It comes from a very dark place.
I grew up in a verydysfunctional home and my
parents would often argue andget into physical and verbal
(10:13):
disagreements.
And I remember being abouteight and my parents had gotten
into this altercation and aftereverything had calmed down, I
just remembered thinking now Ineed to do something to make my
mother laugh.
I just really needed to breakthe tension.
See my mother with a smile onher face.
(10:34):
I think that would solve someof the issues.
I mean, this is what my eightyear old mind is telling me and
I did it.
I did something and it made mymother laugh.
So I knew that whenever myparents would have disagreements
, I would just go into my act,so to speak.
So I wasn't the class clown.
I wasn't a person that peoplewere like oh, he was always the
(11:00):
spotlight, he was the star ofthe drama team or any of those
things.
I just had a very difficultscenario that I figured out how
to use humor to help break thetension, which has led me to
working with folks andorganizations to use humor as a
(11:21):
leadership tool to break tension, have difficult conversations,
to help people feel morecomfortable and dynamic in their
presentation and communicationon stage.
So I've taken that comedy pieceand it's been throughout the
course of my life.
It's sort of like I've alwaysbeen interested in leadership.
(11:41):
I've always been interested inlaughter.
So I'm kind of like the Reese'sPieces where you got the
chocolate and the peanut butter.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
And I've tried.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
I've tried to just be comedy and I've tried to just
be leadership and it doesn't fitme.
I need to have those bothmerged together.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
Yeah Well, it seems like a great combination and it
seems like something that youknow I don't know that anybody
else is doing is putting thesethings together, which I think
really makes you unique.
You know, you've been on BET,you've been on Peacock and
you've been all over the US andbeyond doing this skill.
So even from a young age, youfound that you were already
(12:22):
calculating jokes.
Okay, this one hit, this onedidn't.
This one is gonna work.
File this one away for adifferent circumstance, kind of
thing Is that would you saythat's what it was like.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
Yeah, it was what's been very.
It's always been an interestingjourney at every stage of it.
But I think the mosteye-opening part about humor in
my life humor was once aliability and then it
automatically became an asset,like I just.
(12:55):
I can remember it's likepre-high school, post-high, like
high school, post-high school.
Comedy was something different.
In high school and below it washey, you can't sit.
Still, you always got somethingto say.
You think everything's funny,like it just was a negative
(13:15):
connotation.
And then, once I became an adult, I could remember sitting in
interviews, even for internshipsor opportunities, and folks
would say, oh my goodness, youhave such a charismatic
personality, your humor's sogreat.
It was like what happened, Likethe thing that was the most
(13:37):
negative thing is now the mostpositive.
And it took me and I stillthink I have some mindset to
work with because all thenegative messages that I've
received about humor over thecourse of my life- yeah, yeah,
(13:57):
that is so basically, one ofyour huge gifts was coming out
at such a young age and you werebeing told just to ignore it.
Right, it's like being asuperhero.
You're a mutant.
You're a mutant right, yes.
You're strong, you're too fast,but oh, you can stop this meteor
from hitting the earth.
You're the best of all, and Ialso had to learn how to handle
(14:24):
the superpower.
I had to learn how to operatewith it, because there is a such
thing as appropriate humor.
I talk to schools.
I go to talk to students andone of the first things I'll say
especially I think there was amiddle school that brought me in
and one of the first things Isaid is that, hey, man, I
understand your teachers lie toyou all the time and people like
(14:45):
whoa, what is it?
Huh.
It's like yeah it's kindadifficult, and so I would, and
the teachers would look in it'slike everybody have everybody
attention.
And I said imagine thisscenario something funny happens
in class, everyone laughs.
And what does your teacher say?
Speaker 1 (15:02):
That's not funny, not funny.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Then their teacher leave the same classroom, walk
down the hall and will tell acolleague you won't believe the
most hilarious thing that justhappened.
And so it's not that it's notfunny, it's not appropriate at
this particular time.
So I think that was the piecethat I had to kind of get some
clarity around, and I often inmy presentations I say comedy is
(15:27):
neutral, comedy is like money.
The issue is is what you decideto do with it.
You can take comedy and you canbe belittling, you can be
insulting, you can be negative.
Or you can take comedy and youcan be inspiring, motivating and
build community.
And that's what I try to dowith my humor is to bridge gaps
(15:47):
and not put up barriers.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Oh, that's so true.
I love that example that yougave.
I was a teacher for a while tooand, yes, the first thing
somebody says something or doessomething you have to be like
stop, yeah, we're payingattention to something, and I
would.
I would go right down the halland I was like you will never
believe what just happens, butit wasn't appropriate.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
It was funny, right, it wasn't appropriate, and
there's an appropriateness tohumor.
Often this is the other thingthat I talk about in corporate
settings, because we're not veryskilled in humor, we bring that
same sense of humor toeverything.
Like we are, who we are, andwhat happens in the workplace is
you bring inside jokes to anoutside relationship, and so now
(16:34):
the way that you're engagingwith humor is how you would
engage with your friends andyour family.
But those people know you, theylove you, they've been in your
life for years.
These people at your job, theydon't know you, they know the
word version of you, and soyou're bringing in your college
sense of humor and it's like no,let's cultivate a relationship,
(16:58):
then we can start bringing inhumor.
But if you, if you start, andthen that's when you find
yourself saying like, well, Iwasn't trying to hurt anyone,
you know you're doing all thisapologizing and what you should
lead with is relationship andnot with jokes.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
Oh, that's just fascinating, that's.
I love that explanation.
It makes so much sense and oneof the things that I teach when
I teach communication is talkingabout how.
A lot of times and I'd love tohear your opinion on this a lot
of times communication is atrial and error process.
(17:35):
We try one thing and if it hitsthat's great, and but it can
also be frightening becausewe're not sure what we did that
got it to hit.
And if it doesn't work, it'svery frightening because then we
don't know what to do again,and I would imagine that that is
, you know, a skill that you'rebalancing all the time.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
That's the essence of stand-up comedy, and it's also
not just performing it butwriting it.
Unlike music, I can't play asong in a room and like, oh,
that's a good song.
Like the only way that I knowthat comedy is good is if I say
it in front of people.
There's no other way, there'sno other barometer, there's no
(18:19):
other measure.
Then, if I open my mouth infront of a group of people and
someone laughs like that's it.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
And that's very daunting.
And then, much like you weresaying, it's trial and error and
the more you do it, the moreyou understand the danger or the
more you're better able torecover.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
And then the more sensitive you are.
But yeah, you're absolutelycorrect and the benefit that we
have with communication is wealways are doing it.
Yes, we're always communicating.
We may not know that or haveformalized that in our brain.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Yeah, I think you're so right, because we have to
communicate everything every dayand, like you talked about
wearing the suit, that's a typeof communication it might be.
I work with a lot of medicalstudents and I tell them that
people will have an emotionalreaction to everything that you
(19:21):
do, said the way you come intothe room, the way you hang up
your coat, the way you sit down.
That may not be fair, butthat's what's happening and I'm
sure when you step out on thatstage you must be feeling that
as well.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
That's interesting because I think about this as it
relates to comedy, but I justsaw it as you were explaining it
about the medical field.
Like people come to anappointment with subjective
thoughts of doctors, like theyalready feel the way that they
feel about doctors, and eitheryou have to work through that or
that serves as a benefit foryou.
(19:56):
Comedy is the same way.
If I say comedy in your brainyou're always thinking something
you don't come to comedy with ablank slate you already have.
And that's another challenge inthe workplace because when you
say comedy, people thinknightclub eclairs, alcohol, you
think the Vegas.
You know I'm a wild and crazyguy.
(20:18):
You're not thinking this guy isa keynote speaker and he builds
community, you know, you justit's very subjective and comedy
much like the ability to selectyour physician, you control that
so the whole entire room couldbe laughing.
You're like I don't thinkthat's funny and you're
absolutely right, like you'rethe judge and jewelry of how you
(20:42):
feel.
And that's very insightful fordoctors because people just have
.
We've watched television showswith doctors, we've had
experience with doctors over theyears.
We come into that relationshipalready with a set of
expectations or already knowingoh this is how this is going to
be.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
Yeah, yeah, you're so right and that's flipping
through Netflix.
If you look at the comedy andyou look at the photo and you're
like, oh, I don't know, thatdoesn't seem funny, you know?
Oh well, he uses language, or.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
OK, this is what I could do this.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
one looks funny.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
I saw something on Facebook recently.
I'm sorry that was justinfuriating.
And it was the question and Iget it, it was the engagement.
I saw the comments, but thequestion was what comedian do
you not find funny?
And I was like why are y'alldoing this?
Like.
I was like come on, man, that'snot funny.
Yeah, but these folks are theexpert.
(21:43):
If I say that's not funny to me, you're absolutely correct.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Yes, yeah, you're 100% correct.
You're listening to the SavvyCommunicator podcast.
Our guest is Mike Goodwin,comedian and leadership trainer.
We'll be right back.
Yeah, welcome back to the SavvyCommunicator.
(22:10):
Again, we're talking with MikeGoodwin, comedian and leadership
trainer.
So, mike, I really am dying toknow what was your initial foray
into comedy.
How did that start?
Speaker 2 (22:22):
Great question.
What happened is very.
I guess everybody's story isalways interesting.
So I wasn't a kid that peopleare like, oh, you should do
comedy.
I wasn't the kid that saw afamous comedian on television.
I was like I'm going to be thatguy.
That's just what.
That wouldn't how it happenedfor me.
I always had a great sense ofhumor.
I thought I was a more improvtype guy.
(22:45):
I didn't think I had content.
Just get on stage and talk andpeople.
That just seemed wild to me.
But I loved comedy.
I'm like a comedy fan, I'm likethe hair club for me, and not
only am I a client, I'm thepresident.
I don't know how I'm going to bepresident, but I am a user so I
enjoy like I laugh.
Even if you one of the most toknow me to see me in a comedy
(23:11):
setting, you would think thatthe comedians was paying me the
way that I laugh.
I always say when I go on stageone of the things I hate is
that I'm not in the audiencelaughing, because I'm a very
engaged laugher.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
But what?
Speaker 2 (23:26):
happened for me.
It happened at my church.
So I was working in the mediaministry at my church and this
comedian joined our church.
He was a guy that was doingcomedy, but he was doing secular
comedy and really wanted to notbe who he was on stage.
At the time I wanted to stop,clean up his acts, so to speak.
(23:47):
So he joined our church and wewere serving together in the
media ministry and I would justrun ideas by him.
I would say, hey, man, what doyou think about this, what do
you think about that?
And we would laugh and he kindof allowed me to do this for
about 30 days and then finallyone day he said look, man, you
have some really good contentthat you were telling me.
(24:07):
He said I'm going to give youtwo options.
He said I can do this materialthat you are sharing with me and
I'm going on stage and do it.
And I'm not going to give youany money.
He said you can go on stage anddo this material and you can get
the money, and so I was like Iguess I'm going on stage Pretty
(24:28):
much got debolded onto stage,bullied me on the stage and
that's how I got started.
And I started at a New Year'sEve service at my church and I
was surprised and people didn'tknow I was going to be doing it
and I went up and I did the mostwonderful seven minutes
standing ovation.
It was a Hollywood story typeof event.
(24:52):
Then I went on the road doingit and I bombed for the next two
years and I got to the placewhere I knew I could be good.
I knew I had the ability, butit just wasn't happening.
And I realized that there weresome things that I was doing
(25:17):
that wasn't causing myperformances to work.
And I remember after one eventI just was like I got to, I got
to do better.
And I remember having aconversation with God.
I was like hey, this is notworking out like this, like I
know I'm supposed to be doingthis.
And what I heard and felt wasyou're not doing this for the
(25:44):
audience, you're doing it foryourself.
Like I was on stage for my goodone and it clicked.
Like you're not talking topeople, you're not looking
people in there, you're on a big, big stage, there's peacocking
around, and so I made the change.
I made, like this shift in OK,I need to start making
(26:08):
connections with the audience.
And I also knew that all theseleadership principles, like I
knew, all of these things that Ihad employed in my personal and
professional life, so why don'tI use these principles to
improve my comedy performance.
So I started looking atleadership principles, like one
(26:31):
of the first ones that I adoptedwas the idea of being diligent.
I just wasn't as diligent as Ishould have been in my comedy.
I thought I looked at comedysort of like a hobby, looked at
it like, oh, if nothing else isgoing on, I'll get over there to
it.
I thought about what you know.
(26:52):
One of my favorite Movies wasthe karate kid and I kind of had
the same.
I had the same attitude theDaniel's son had when he wanted
to learn karate, like he wantedto fight and he wanted to punch
and kick but he didn't want tolearn how to wax on.
Wax off, wax on and wax off.
(27:13):
So that was the component thatI was missing in my comedy
pressure preparation.
I wasn't Preparing, I wasn'tbeing diligent, I wasn't
researching, I wasn't thinkingabout the audience.
And who were these people thatI'm gonna be speaking to?
What?
What are their needs, what aretheir concerns?
What is their life like?
(27:33):
I'll just would jump on stageand Do some warmed-up version of
what I thought a Comedy set wasyeah so once I started
implementing those principles,you know I was being diligent.
The next one was I was beingpresent and Showing up there
wherever my feet were, asopposed to being on stage
(27:55):
thinking about why am I not onbigger stages or why didn't I
get the opportunity that otherpeople got, and Just not it
being distracted, just nothonking in in the moment, being
grateful, being appreciative,serving right where I was.
And so that really Changed.
Because what was interesting?
(28:16):
Once I became more diligent, Igot better.
But then, when I got, better Igot more entitled.
Yeah, I started not Thinkingabout them, I started thinking
about me.
Then I had to.
I had to reel that in andbecome present, and then the
principle I talk about a lot isbeing generous.
(28:37):
That also helped me in terms ofstand up, because it's not a
very generous environment.
Entertainment is not a placewhere Folks are wrapping their
arms around you and showing youthe way.
It's a yeah, dog world type ofscenario and I wanted to go
against the grain and then beand be generous.
So I implemented leadershipprinciples To help me become a
(29:03):
world-class communicator.
And I was bad like I did.
I'm you know.
People see me now Like, oh it'sso funny.
I was bad, I was very bad.
I'm not being humble, I'm notbeing modest.
I was not good and I worked anddeveloped and grew to become
better and so I feel veryconfident, not only if I if it
(29:25):
works for me, it can work forothers.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
Yes, I think so, so I was just taking notes while you
were speaking about beingdiligent and then being present.
I like what you said aboutbeing where your feet were, yeah
, and just in that place timeand then being generous.
You know, which is, like yousaid, is so Uncommon in the
performance world?
I was an actor for 15 years, soI know exactly what you're
(29:48):
talking about on that.
You know people will just, youknow, leave you in the dust and
walk on by.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
You know, can you do for me?
What have you done for melately?
I mean, yeah, I had it toooften.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
So I want to ask this next question, and I'm not sure
how to ask it, so it might notcome across correctly.
The first time when you Areworking and doing your comedy in
leadership training, do youever encounter resistance?
Speaker 2 (30:20):
All the time people.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
You know how do you deal with that all the time.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
Comedy is resistance, even if, if, even if people are
there to laugh, there's still aresistance of I don't know this
person.
Is he really funny like?
And to see me, you're notthinking funny.
That's not the first thing.
You know I am is a veryscholarly looking gentlemen.
(30:46):
I don't have the and I don'tknow what a comedian looks like,
but it doesn't look like me,like I don't look like when I
show up.
You're not thinking, oh man,this might be a good time.
You're thinking like, oh, I'mabout to get my taxes done.
This guy's about to give me agreat lecture on On World War
two, like I just don't have thatinitial.
(31:09):
Hey, this is a wild and crazytime, guy Mm-hmm, I think the
resistance is always present.
I think, as a communicator andit's a comedian, that this is
one of the tips or tricks, that,but you have to be careful.
But self deprecation, I thinkthat's one of the things that I
would do.
And it could be man, I'm alittle overdressed here tonight.
(31:32):
And then people like, oh okay,mm-hmm, he's acknowledged that
he's a suit and everybody elseis maybe more business casual.
I don't take myself soseriously.
You know, take shots atyourself, so speak, but not to
undermine your authority andyour, your Expertise.
But there's ways to just say,man, you know I don't have it
(31:55):
all together.
Yeah and when you communicatethat People immediately, I don't
like this guy.
I mean it's immediate.
I, oh, I can connect with that.
How many folks got up on thewrong side of the bed this
morning Like, ok, everybodydidn't, but there's some people
that did.
Speaker 1 (32:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
Like that you said that you feel.
You know, I think honesty issomething that you do to make
connection and you have to bemeasured.
You know, I just got anargument with my wife.
You be like whoa guy, we don'teven know you like, wait a
minute, that's a little too much.
But a level of transparencyalways alleviates resistance.
(32:43):
For me I make people laugh.
Like if I make you laugh inthat first 60 seconds I'm able
to eliminate much of thatresistance because, and
especially by the end of fiveminutes, you have a good gauge
of what's going to happen.
Like even if you were like Iwasn't prepared to laugh.
Is this going to be appropriateand inappropriate?
(33:06):
But in the five minutes you'relike oh man, this is a husband,
this you know.
I've said something to mychildren.
I'm like I'm from SouthCarolina.
We use I say I'm from the Southwith an F and not a T H, and
now people laugh and it is justoh man, it's my good, it's my
guy, it's my honey.
So yeah, that's the kind of waythat I win folks over and try
(33:31):
to eliminate resistance.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
That's great.
That's great.
Transparency alleviatesresistance.
I really like that.
I think that is anexceptionally clear way to do it
, which would clear, would alsobe transparent, right, and it's
something that we all can do.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
Here's another tip, because folks that are listening
to your podcasts arecommunicators.
You don't have to be a stand upcomedian to be funny.
Like the level in which wejudge, comedians and speakers
are not even on the samestrategy, sure.
So just to add one or two bitsof humor into your presentation
(34:10):
is gold.
Like, most folks come topresentations like this is going
to be good information, butthey're not going to think, oh,
this is going to be an awesomeexperience.
Like, oh, I'm going to learnsomething new.
Ok, now you've taught themsomething new and they laugh.
They're like wait a minute,this was.
This is pretty good yeah.
So, I think there's acommunicator.
(34:31):
When you hear humor or comedyin your presentation, don't
think you got to do an HBOspecial or a Netflix special.
Just think, man, I need threetimes through the course of an
hour where people smile or laughLike that's a very low bar to a
couple, ok.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
Yeah, that feels doable because I know there are
times.
You know, I think, like mostpeople, I enjoy being funny and
I think, like many people, I'mnot very good at it.
And it's funny in my house.
We grew up with very dry senseof humor.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
Right right.
Speaker 1 (35:05):
And then you go tell somebody a joke with that dry
sense of humor and they can justbe taken aback and be like wow,
that sounds really scary.
Instead of being funny.
Right, right, but that's a goodgoal because it's just when you
say something just off the cuffand everybody laughs.
It's one of the most wonderfulfeelings it's gold in the world.
Speaker 2 (35:27):
One of the things I do, because comedy is a surprise
, right?
So one of the things I do isvery, very low, low entry when
you check into a.
You check into a hotel andthey're doing their deal.
They're telling you aboutcontinental breakfast and
they're saying have you stayedhere before in the gyms, on the
first floor, all that stuff.
They'll say, hey, how many?
(35:48):
You know how many keys wouldyou want me to make?
I'll say some outlandish numberlike 73.
And so number one, it takesthem off their script because
they can't.
You can't hear 73 and say, oh,parking, is you like what?
Yeah.
And so once I have them, I sayyeah, you know, I'm just going
to pass them out downtown, so itjust, but it's that I didn't
(36:11):
write.
That wasn't a very oh, I spenttime right.
It's surprise is the element ofsurprise.
People did not see that coming.
So there's ways that you can dothat.
And I also look at it like ifyou're looking at a program,
it's like a commercial break,like the laugh is a commercial
break.
So you're watching 10 minutes ofan episode.
Put a laugh in there, watchanother 10 minutes, put another
(36:34):
laugh and then you're you'redone.
So it doesn't have to be this.
Oh my goodness, they wereslapping the table and passed
out in the aisles during yourpresentation.
But we always walk away frompresentations that are humorous,
feeling much better yes,initially, and even even me like
(36:55):
I'm funnier in a corporatesetting than I am in a club,
because people did not expect tolaugh, maybe a little bit,
because they say we got acomedian doing a keynote.
So they kind of like, oh, it'sgoing to be funny.
But most times folks are like,oh, that was incredible.
And it was good, but I was likeI'm not doing anything.
(37:16):
It's like oh, my goodness, he'sthe next Tony Robbins.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
It sounds like you're on your way.
It sounds like you are on yourway, so that's great.
So the last question I want toask you is we wrap up.
You know, our tagline at theshow is how to speak when you're
not sure what to say.
And I wanted to ask you haveyou ever been stuck in a
(37:42):
situation where you had no ideawhat to say, whether it's on
stage, whether it's working withsomeone, and how did you deal
with it?
Speaker 2 (37:50):
So many.
I have so many examples.
I wanted to just jump to mine.
I recently this probably hasbeen as recent as this past
Christmas, but it's pretty, it'spretty recent.
So I do a lot of corporate eventand oftentimes folks will have
me in for their holiday banquetdinner event and I was doing
(38:12):
this event in Indiana and it waskind of rural Indiana and you
know, we talked to the personand this company in that they
forgot the particular business.
And I got to the venue and itwas an Amish community, like it
was.
Like I pulled up and they werelike horse and buggies in the
(38:36):
parking lot and I walked in inthe room Like, and they had
mentioned that they were Amishpeople you know some folks that
the Amish work for them and itwas, but they didn't.
When I walked in it was like Iwas the only non-Amish person
there, like it was not.
Oh, there's gonna be.
(38:58):
No, it's like Amish and my goodone.
And so just by the look of itwas just like stark contrast to
kind of what I had put in myhead, like I was gonna be some
folks here.
But I forgot even what theAmish called the.
Just like everyday person mightbe American, like they may just
(39:19):
say that we're.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
Yeah, something like that.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
Yeah, it's like a standard.
And even in the write-up theywere like so the audience is
full of American Amish.
And I was like it didn't reallyresented Like yeah, we're in
America, why wouldn't Americansbe?
But when I got there it wasjust like I was like what, in
what kind of jokes am I?
(39:43):
I don't have any Amish jokes,right and so you could tell I
met the president of theorganization.
I think he had saw me and it'slike oh man, you'd be great and
they would love you.
And so I had like this thoughtand I think I've had this
thought a lot of times when Iget in front of different
(40:03):
audiences, the folks know what Ido and they were expecting me
to do that.
I think oftentimes what happenswhen we lose our train of
thought or we find ourselves ina position where we feel like we
don't know what to do.
We know what to do, we justdon't believe that what we
typically do is gonna connect.
(40:25):
And I just kind of rememberedokay, this guy watched video
like he didn't just throw a dartat a picture on the wall I was
like let's get this guy andbring him in.
So I just found comfort in I dowhat I do.
They know what I do and I'mjust gonna get up on the stage
and do it.
So but I acknowledge theawkwardness of the moment, like
(40:49):
hey, when they said this was anAmish community, I didn't know
the whole community was gonna beat the dinner tonight and so
people were like, oh okay, andafter once you get two or three
laughs, you're feeling supercomfortable.
But I think oftentimes andanother thing that I deal with,
(41:09):
especially as a comedian, oreven speakers probably have the
same thing.
If you've been to a placebefore, you're kind of in your
head about oh, I don't wanna saythe same thing, I don't wanna
be a copy of the last time I washere and most times they don't
even remember some of the thingsthat you said.
So, if you have a preparedpresentation, you're gonna be
(41:33):
fine.
Just do the thing that you doand you'll be fine.
Yeah, I just find comfort infalling back on your training,
so to speak.
Speaker 1 (41:44):
Yeah, and I think what's another thing that's
coming through is just the ideaof trusting yourself and
trusting that you have thatstructure, that you've built
that structure.
Speaker 2 (41:55):
Right.
Speaker 1 (41:55):
You know through all your years of training and
working and experiencing andthat everybody can build that
structure, and then that's gonnabe there for you.
Speaker 2 (42:06):
Right and yeah.
And you, just you, just in thatmoment of apprehension and
anxiety, just remember, oh, I'vedone this a thousand times.
I mean, I was on America's GotTalent and there's a moment
where they ask you questions andit's like all right, mike, do
your thing.
And it's like okay, I've beendoing standup for seven years
(42:31):
this is nothing new Like I'mhere.
I'm just in front of Simon Howe,like I'm just Simon Howe or
Howie.
You know that's a littledisorienting, but I've talked
into a microphone in front of agroup of people before.
Let's do.
Speaker 1 (42:49):
Oh, that's fantastic.
That's fantastic.
Did they laugh?
Speaker 2 (42:52):
They did.
I got the four yeses.
Speaker 1 (42:56):
Ah, congratulations.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
Yeah, it was quite the experience.
Speaker 1 (43:00):
Yeah, I bet it was.
Listen, not many people getthat.
Speaker 2 (43:04):
Right.
Speaker 1 (43:04):
Mike Goodwin, comedian and leadership trainer.
It has been an absolutepleasure to have you on the
Savvy Communicator today.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
I've had a wonderful time.
Speaker 1 (43:13):
Me too.
Thanks so much for joining ustoday.
Our guest has been Mike Goodwin.
You can reach him atMikeGoodwin G-O-O-D-W-I-Ncom.
Definitely check him out, seeeverywhere that he's been, and
thanks for spending time with ustoday.
We'll see you next time.
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