June 16, 2025 • 23 mins
This week we return to our Lived Experience series and host Leisa Reichelt is joined by Mark Thompson, a father of two daughters from the south coast of New South Wales.
Mark shares the struggles and triumphs of raising his autistic daughter, codename Bluey, as she faces challenges with attending school. From the daycare where Bluey thrived, to the increasing difficulties in preschool and beyond, Mark shares their journey through the education system.
He discusses their eventual decision to home educate, the family stresses, and the myriad of strategies they employed to support Bluey.
Mark emphasizes trusting the gut instincts of both parents and children and the importance of finding a supportive community.
00:00 Welcome
00:28 Introducing Mark Thompson and His Family
01:37 Early School Challenges with Bluey
04:09 Navigating Autism Diagnosis and School Supports
07:13 Struggles with School and Transition to Homeschooling
15:32 Homeschooling Journey and Personal Reflections
19:51 The Importance of Community and Support
22:09 Closing Thoughts and Resources
- School Can’t Australia Facebook Community - https://www.facebook.com/groups/schoolphobiaschoolrefusalaustralia
- Make a donation to School Can’t Australia - https://www.schoolcantaustralia.com.au/get-involved
If you are a parent of carer in Australia and experiencing distress, please call Lifeline on 13 11 14 or contact the Parent Help Line. - https://kidshelpline.com.au/parents/issues/how-parentline-can-help-you
You can contact us to volunteer to share your School Can't story or some feedback via email on schoolcantpodcast@gmail.com
Disclaimer
The content of this podcast is based on personal lived experiences and is shared for informational and storytelling purposes only. It should not be treated as medical, psychological, or professional advice under any circumstances. If you have concerns about your health or well-being, please seek guidance from a doctor, therapist, or other qualified professional.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Leisa Reichelt (00:05):
Hello and welcome to the School Can't
Experience podcast.
I'm Leisa Reichelt, and thispodcast is brought to you by the
School Can't Australiacommunity.
Caring for a young person who isstruggling to attend school can
be a stressful and isolatingexperience, but you are not
alone.
Thousands of parents acrossAustralia and many more around
the world face similarchallenges and experiences every
(00:27):
day.
Today we are returning to ourLived Experience series and I'm
joined by Mark Thompson.
Mark is a dad to two daughters,and today he's gonna share some
of the story of his family andtheir experience of School
Can't.
so unfortunately, the audioquality on this interview isn't
fantastic, so my apologies forthat.
But hopefully you'll still beable to really enjoy hearing
(00:50):
from Mark.
Mark, thank you so much forjoining us to share your story
on our podcast today.
Let's get started by getting toknow you and your family a
little bit, tell us a little bitabout you and the family and
where you've come from.
Mark Thompson (01:02):
So we live on the far south coast of New South
Wales.
There's four of us.
There's myself, my wife, Jo, andwe've got two beautiful
daughters.
One's ten, one's three, and Ioriginally moved to Australia
about 15, 16 years ago from theUK.
For work.
I've worked in the mental healthsector for the last 15 years and
lived experience space.
Leisa Reichelt (01:21):
fantastic.
Really appreciate you're our,first dad to come on and share
their perspective of the SchoolCan't lived experience.
Let's start from the beginningthen, shall we?
What are we calling your twodaughters today?
Mark Thompson (01:33):
My two daughters, I will just call in Australia
Bluey and Bingo
Leisa Reichelt (01:36):
All right.
let's start at, the beginning ofwhere the School Can't story
starts, from your perspectivewith Bluey.
Mark Thompson (01:43):
So when she used to go to daycare, she absolutely
loved it because it wasfreeform, she could do what she
liked.
She is a really curious kid andjust liked to do her own thing
in her own time, her own spaceand was wonderful.
So you'd sometimes go to pickher up and she'd be there going,
I don't want to leave I justwanna stay and have more fun.
(02:04):
And then, when we got topreschool, there was a few more
rules.
And she came back to us andsaid, i'm not quite sure I feel
comfortable here because theytell me what to do all the time,
and I don't like that.
And so as a first time parent,you kind of go away, you think
about that and you kind of go,well, your kids are gonna show
some resistance to certainthings when they're being asked
(02:26):
to do things they don't want todo.
You try and navigate that asbest you can and you have a chat
with the preschool and theteachers and the people who have
seen it before.
And then when we got to school,that really kind of ramped up.
Everything became difficult.
Demands were hard for her, themore she struggled emotionally
(02:48):
that led to really big sensoryissues So even getting dressed
in the mornings becameincredibly difficult.
Mornings, really could takehours and hours doing stuff like
ironing the soles of shoes andmaking sure there was not a
single crease.
It just became very, verydifficult to the point where,
school attendance ground to acomplete halt.
Internally you're kind of going,there's something not quite
(03:08):
right here you've got all theexpectations.
Your children have to go toschool, they have to get an
education, they have to learn,which is all correct, but, it
didn't fit for us and it didn'tfit for her..
Leisa Reichelt (03:18):
And so that was in kindy that it all just kind
of fell apart completely.
Mark Thompson (03:23):
Yeah.
I mean, kindy wasn't too bad inthat, but I'm thinking back now
and she's ten, and even goingback I don't think she ever did
a complete week.
And I'm looking back over thattime and just thinking to
myself, am I not doing thisright?
Am I not approaching this theright way?
Leisa Reichelt (03:38):
How was the school in those really early
days of her starting school andtrying to attend?
Mark Thompson (03:43):
Luckily she really liked her teacher.
And so, you know, on the days wecould get her there the teacher
would often come to the office,and we'd try and do a handover
and sometimes it would go wellbut most of the time it didn't.
Yeah.
The more resistance there wasthe tougher it got to have
honest conversations with themon what was happening.
So that's when you know, as aparent, you turn and go, what,
(04:05):
what do we need to do here?
So you seek the advice ofprofessionals.
And get diagnostics.
It turns out she was autisticand she is autistic should I
say, and, you know, that allowedus to research how to support
her.
We were incredibly lucky that wecould afford to go private.
looking at the public waitinglist and it would've been 2, 3,
4 years wait list, especiallywhen you live in a regional
(04:26):
area, I remember taking the dayoff work and ringing every
single pediatrician from Sydneyto Canberra.
Even the private ones hadmassive waiting lists.
And we were just lucky that wefound a pediatrician, in
Canberra.
A practice had just taken on twonew pediatricians, so we were
able to get an appointmentwithin two or three weeks.
Leisa Reichelt (04:42):
Wow.
Mark Thompson (04:42):
it was actually pretty lucky in the end.
Leisa Reichelt (04:44):
Luck off the back of a lot of hard work by
the sounds of it.
Mark Thompson (04:47):
It was, but it's just what, it's just what you
do, right?
To support your kid.
When you've got that diagnosis,you then try and go back to the
school and go, well, we've nowgot this diagnosis.
What supports are available?
Then there's confusion around,what she's entitled to, and,
conversations around funding.
Is the funding tied to theschool?
Is it tied to the child?
(05:07):
You're trying to support yourown mental health, you're trying
to, you know.
Work, you're trying to lookafter the family, all of that
stuff.
In the end, you're trying tomake sense of funding models and
stuff like that.
Go and advocate for yourself toget your daughter more support.
Leisa Reichelt (05:22):
So you talked a little bit about some of the
personal stresses and pressuresat home.
If you look back to those earlydays when Bluey first got her
autism diagnosis.
How was home life how are thingsgoing at home?
On top of all the schoolpressure.
Mark Thompson (05:37):
Her sleep was just always not great, and so we
were always tired and we alwaysfelt like we were fighting
everything.
For me I was trying to work 40hours a week and I was also
trying to support my wife who'sgoing through her own stuff and
trying to support my little girltoo.
You've got that societalexpectations whereby I was just
like, I've just got to fix thissomehow..
(05:59):
And so in my head, I'm going, isit about getting her to school
or is it about kind of, youknow, that wellbeing for, for us
all?
And so trying to balance what Ithink and what I feel versus
what I'm being to told I have todo.
Trying to manage it all was justso difficult.
(06:19):
I think for me, you feel a levelof shame of not being able to,
to, to manage everyone'swellness and support everyone in
the way you want to.
You have, how do I emotionallysupport, how do I intellectually
support, how do I financiallysupport, you still wanna try and
find, you still wanna try andfind joy in life as well.
You don't want life to becomethis rollercoaster of just
(06:40):
trying to manage things none ofthat seemed to be working.
There was anything that ahundred percent.
So yeah, just that internalgoing, what can I do differently
or what can I do more?
The answer was always workharder, you know, so, yeah.
Leisa Reichelt (06:55):
harder, try harder, push harder.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
So you had the diagnosis.
You are trying to get thatadditional support at school.
How did that go?
What was the next step in thatjourney?
Mark Thompson (07:13):
Oh, eventually there was an incident at the
school, where someone actuallybreached a boundary with her and
I was present for it and after Iwitnessed this I made a decision
there and then that she's notgoing back to this place that is
causing her harm.
We got a school counselorinvolved who, thankfully when
(07:33):
you live in a small community,you know each other.
And he was phenomenal.
He worked with us and we managedto register for a school out of
our area, which is 50 kilometersaway.
And that school had a supportunit.
And when she started to gothere, they were saying all the
(07:54):
right things and doing all theright things.
And met her with where she wasat.
And the principal did an amazingintake.
Her teacher and head of thatdepartment was phenomenal and
engaged her with her interests,Minecraft, dinosaurs, Pokemon,
all that kind of stuff.
And she learned by surroundingherself with things she loves.
(08:16):
And, yeah.
But that, that was, that wasreally good.
Leisa Reichelt (08:20):
Well, that's 50 Ks away.
She was having to hop up and getin the car and drive to school,
Mark Thompson (08:25):
I worked in that same town and the plan was for
me to get her to school on timeand then go to work myself, and
so that never happened, youknow, and I was constantly late
for work and I was constantlyhaving to take time off.
And that familiar story of howdo you work a full-time job?
How do you bring in enoughincome to, pay the mortgage, pay
the bills, and so it justbecomes this never ending thing.
(08:48):
All your conversations between,you and your partner become
logistics about who's gonna dowhat.
And when you're tired, it thenbecomes, but I did do this
yesterday.
It's not about blame, buteveryone feels under the pump
and no one feels like they'regetting a break.
And the terrible thing about itis.....
it's no one in our immediatefamily's fault.
Do you know what I mean?
Leisa Reichelt (09:09):
Everyone's trying the hardest, but everyone
feels like absolute crap.
Yeah.
And it is, it's very stressfulwith work, isn't it?
Because you never know what theday's going to bring until it's
happening.
And so it's like you can't plan,people can't plan around you
just, yeah.
It's, it's miserable, isn't it?
To have to go, I'm really sorry.
(09:30):
I'm gonna be at least an hourlate or two hours late, or I
won't be in at all.
Mark Thompson (09:35):
That's exactly what it was.
And so, yeah, I'd be theredriving to work and I'd have my,
you know, my personal phone andmy work phone.
And then constantly having topull over and just quickly text,
oh, I'm gonna be late for thisappointment, or, can you
rearrange this please?
And in your head, you're going.
Right, when we get there, I'llhave like a 15 minute buffer to
do the transition.
Then, the meltdown would happenoutside the school gates.
(09:56):
And that would be, I'm not gonnaget there for the next meeting
either.
Yeah.
Leisa Reichelt (10:01):
how important it is for you to stay calm, but
it's also impossible to staycalm'cause you're so stressed
out about all of the havoc thatyou're causing everywhere else
as well.
Yeah, it's very, very difficult,isn't it?
Mark Thompson (10:13):
You've gotta look after yourself.
You've gotta put your own oxygenmask on before you put anyone
else's on.
And it's so difficult to getanyone to understand.
And you get all that advice frompeople who haven't been through
it..
And you just need to be harder.
You just need to take theirgames away.
You need to make homeuncomfortable.
You need like, all of thatstuff, which, internally, made
(10:34):
me go, oh no, I can't, I can'tdo any of that,
Leisa Reichelt (10:37):
where were you getting that advice from?
Mark Thompson (10:39):
You get it from friends, you get it from
relatives, you get it from allover.
And again, it, it brings back tothat real, what are my core
values in this?
How do I see this?
I can't ever imagine, beingunable to attend a place which
doesn't feel safe for them.
It's an odd point of view, tosay, if you just make your kid
more miserable here, they'llwant to go to the slightly less
miserable place.
That doesn't make sense to me
Leisa Reichelt (11:01):
Do you think your personal history help to
inform that?
Because I think for a lot ofpeople there is kind of an
inherent logic of take the funthings away and then they'll
want to go to the place thatmust be relatively more fun.
Mark Thompson (11:13):
Yeah you're right, it did.
Having a personal history ofmental health challenges and
mental health recovery.
I was unwell for a very, verylong time.
It was by finding the thing thatmeant something to me that got
me out of that, that, thattaught me that there's a life
beyond what I'm experiencingright now.
I was housebound and I wasagrophobic.
(11:35):
And I remember sitting down oneday and going, well, I need
something to focus on.
So I started a blog,'cause blogswere really popular back in the
day.
And and that eventually became ahome business.
Having something I enjoyed, Iloved, gave me a reason and then
I just built momentum fromthere.
And I know, my experience iscompletely different to my
daughters and different toeveryone else's, but there are
(11:55):
building blocks you can use indifferent types of recovery, and
is what I always worked on withher is how do we connect, enjoy
things together and what is itabout the world that you find
interesting and how do weharness that,
Leisa Reichelt (12:06):
So there were lots of things about this school
that ticked a lot of boxes, andyet it wasn't really working.
Can you talk to why it didn'twork out the way that you hoped
do you have any insight intothat?
Mark Thompson (12:22):
the people there, they are well-meaning, great at
their jobs and they arepassionate.
They can't create theenvironment that is gonna stop
my daughter's nervous system,for lack of a better term,
freaking out, you know?
Whenever I picked my daughterup, she'd say, yeah, today was a
great day and I did this and Idid that with this person and
what, and then the next morningit would be that she was just so
(12:45):
tired that any demand would justbe impossible, you know?
So one day at school would leadto two days of burnout.
It was just too big for her.
Leisa Reichelt (12:59):
So where was she at school-wise?
By the time that you came toterms of the fact that it wasn't
really working out?
Mark Thompson (13:08):
Yeah, I think we were pretty aware after the
first 12 months to be quitehonest, and, you do that thing,
you do the try and push throughthing because you see joy there.
And so it's case, well if we canjust iron this out, if we can
just iron that out every step ofthe way, the school will like,
tell us what we need to do, youknow, there always open to
communication everything, but itjust, we just couldn't get what
(13:31):
we needed to get in order to...,We couldn't make the environment
what it needed to be,unfortunately.
Leisa Reichelt (13:38):
What are some of the things that you tried?
'cause I'm very familiar withthis carousel of like, well,
what if we try this?
Oh, we'll try this and thatmight work.
I just need to get the reciperight and then it'll be okay.
And you just go round and roundand round.
What are some of the things thatyou tried
Mark Thompson (13:50):
so, she really struggles with temperature
changes and therefore going outwith the sensory stuff, she
can't wear jumpers and thingslike that.
So it's case of, staying insideat break times or taking as many
breaks as she likes, and alwayshaving a lunch on her desk so
she can eat when she wanted, inclass whenever she wanted if I
managed to get her at 10 o'clockin the morning, I could take her
(14:12):
straight to class and that wouldbe all good.
They had extra movement stuffthere, like, more sport and they
involved her, all the kids inthat class had pets.
They gotta play networkMinecraft.
When they did cooking classesand life skills and things like
that, it was a case of,'Right,what's your favorite meal in the
world?
Let's make that.' There wasevery single thing that we
(14:33):
possibly could have done.
One of the things I think isreally important is to give
positive feedback I sent anemail to the, to the education
department, just praising theschool and their kind of neuro
affirming attitudes, and thethings they'd tried and they,
and they had tried.
So it was really, it was a shamefor everyone when it hadn't
(14:54):
worked out
Leisa Reichelt (14:56):
yeah.
Mark Thompson (14:56):
Amazing school for a really small regional
town.
Leisa Reichelt (15:00):
I can relate to that.
My son in his most recentattempt at school went to a
fantastic school which if he'dbeen able to get into a couple
of years earlier, would'veprobably solved all the
problems.
But by the time he got there, hewas just too burned out.
Finding that school was likefinding a little utopia for
neurodivergent kids.
There are amazing places outthere, but, even then, it
(15:22):
doesn't always work.
Okay.
So you got to the point whereyou're like, this is not
working.
I'm doing a lot of driving andnot getting a lot of school or
work done.
What next?
Mark Thompson (15:32):
Yeah, so homeschooling was the only
option really left for us.
And we're going through thatprocess at the moment of going
through the registration, andeverything.
But really interesting.
This week I did some work withher around grammar, capital
letter, commas, full stops.
And we, we, we put some computerskills on that.
So we put everything into aspreadsheet around one of her
(15:53):
hobbies.
She actually came up to me thenext day and said to me, can we
do some more work on thatproject today?
And that's never happenedbefore.
And it was, it was really,really, fascinating and
phenomenal for, us.
But it was great that, she feltin control that she was taken on
the lesson, like, when she madea mistake with spelling or
grammar or whatever.
(16:13):
She'd go, oh yeah, okay.
I need to, I need to rememberthat.
And so became a little bit of afun game to make a mistake, just
the two of us sat there andthat's the first ever time she's
asked to do more work, which wasjust phenomenal.
Leisa Reichelt (16:24):
Wow.
Mark Thompson (16:25):
That's what we're doing at the moment, When we
talk about how to interact inthe world now, she will want us
to say, can that be part of myeducation?
We say, yep.
What are we gonna do to makethat, what are you gonna learn
from that?
What are you gonna take fromthat?
Things like when she doesn'tsleep a few weeks ago, there's a
meteor shower at two or threeo'clock in the morning and she
wasn't asleep.
So lets learn science.
(16:48):
And so it was, it's, it's reallynice.
Wrap yourself in a blanket andwe're lucky where we live and,
you know, we can drive down tothe beach get a blanket and we
can lie there and watch themeteors and the stars so yeah,
we can do that now and that'sexactly what she needs.
I left my last job in November.
I'd been in for seven years.
And so I've set myself up inself employment..
(17:09):
I've worked full time, you know,the nine to five for the last 20
odd years.
Getting out of the headspace ofdoing that is really difficult
because you have thesetraditional, societal
expectations.
To dial that back, and realizethat I might need to do two
hours of work.
The kids are in bed or to thinkthat our weekends may not be
(17:33):
traditional weekends, And justcompletely flipping everything
on it head.
And even the logisticalchallenges with that is like,
okay, we need shared familycalendar now complicated.
And so for me, I trying to, tofind enough work as well is
difficult.
All that around, her needs andthe family's needs.
Actually, it's not an individualproblem we've never viewed it
(17:55):
that way.
How do we make our familysituation work, with her words,
big feelings?
When she got the diagnosis weasked her what she wanted to
refer to as, and she referred toit as her big feelings.
that's what we'll call it.
So how do we work with bigfeelings in our family?
Leisa Reichelt (18:10):
Home education.
Once you decided that that'swhat the pathway forward looked
like, what's been your approachto how you tackle that?
Mark Thompson (18:21):
Our approach has been interest led.
What is she interested in?
You have to get the essentialsin, right?
So things like learning to readand write.
We are led by her.
One of the things I've saidquite frequently is in this
whole journey, you have to trustyour gut.
And think I've learned more thananything, I have to trust her
gut because she's taught us somuch about different ways of
(18:43):
thinking, different ways being,and so if she tells us now
something's too much.
We know she's right, she's beenright since she was knee high.
And so therefore, just listeningto her and accepting her, she's
got a really good handle of howshe's feeling and what's
happening for her, both in hermind and body.
So just listening to that isreally important.
Leisa Reichelt (19:04):
Mark, we talked about the fact that you're our
first dad to come and share astory and, share your lived
experience with us.
I wonder if you have anythoughts on the male
perspective, the father'sperspective of the School Can't
experience?
You don't have to speak onbehalf of your entire gender,
obviously.
Mark Thompson (19:24):
It's really hard because for me, the whole
working 40 hours a week thingwas such a big thing to let go
of all the societal pressuresand expectations to do all the
things, be strong, to, you know,all of that stuff was just, it,
it weighed heavy on me.
Even though in my own head, andI'm working in mental health and
having my own stuff, I know morethan anyone that's not the case.
(19:45):
You don't have to, it's okay tospeak and reach out.
In those moments, I justcouldn't do any of that.
One of the things I'd try andget through to, to dads and men,
I guess is, find your tribe,find people you can talk to and
relate to.
I remember after school holidayI thought the two weeks had been
really restorative for us as afamily.
And then first day going back toschool we had a big meltdown in
(20:09):
the morning and school didn'thappen.
I just went onto the SchoolCan't forums, on Facebook just
put in this throwaway commentabout, you know, you think you,
you think you're replenished andthen, day one back and like its
like you've had no time at all.
And I dunno, there was just thisoverwhelming sense of, yeah, we
(20:29):
get you and we understand, doyou need anything, do you want
to talk.
For me it was one of thosemoments where I kind of, oh
yeah, people do actually getthis.
It was overwhelming the amountof people willing to talk,
listen and go on that journeywith you.
Leisa Reichelt (20:41):
Yeah, I think that for me that was what the
School Can't Facebook group was.
Going from feeling like the onlyparent on the planet who can't
get their child to go to school.
And then joining that group andrealizing that there were just
so many other people who hadexactly the same experience and
have, had all the samedifficulties and frustrations
(21:01):
and challenges.
It doesn't make anything anyeasier, but it just makes you
feel less lonely and lessshameful about things, doesn't
it?
Mark Thompson (21:08):
Exactly what I found when I went there and
yeah, when I, I put the messageon there, that's exactly what I
found.
Just people who got it.
People understood, people whoweren't judgmental, people who
didn't offer unsolicited advice.
They were just there.
Leisa Reichelt (21:23):
Mark, if you could say one thing to folks who
are on their School Can'tjourney now that you wish you
knew earlier or a resourcethat's been helpful for you,
what would you like people toknow about.
Mark Thompson (21:37):
The thing I was saying earlier about trusting
their gut, trust your SchoolCan't kid.
They know, and work with them,work alongside them.
'Cause when you do, you'll findlevels of connection you never
kind of expected.
And it's a journey you get to goon together.
Because you're here now doesn'tmean that you're always gonna be
here.
And eventually the journey willchange and the scenery will
become prettier and all thatkind of stuff.
(21:58):
And try and find the glimmerwhere you can, I suppose
Leisa Reichelt (22:01):
Lovely.
That's a beautiful place toclose.
Thank you so much for sharingyour journey.
I really appreciate it.
Mark Thompson (22:06):
My pleasure, thank you so much.
Leisa Reichelt (22:09):
I hope you enjoyed hearing about Mark and
his family's journey, and thattakeaway of trusting the gut of
our School Can't kid reallyresonates with you as well.
There's links in the episodenotes to find out more about
School Can't Australia and allof their resources.
If you found this podcasthelpful, please take a moment to
share, subscribe, maybe evengive us a rating or a review.
(22:30):
It really, really makes a hugedifference in helping us get the
podcast in front of people withSchool Can't kids who haven't
found the community yet.
If you've got feedback for us oryou'd like to share your own
School Can't lived experience,please drop an email to
schoolcantpodcast@gmail.com.
And if you are a parent or carerin Australia and you are feeling
distressed, please remember youcan always call the parent
(22:52):
helpline in your state.
A link with the number to callis in the episode notes.
Thank you again for listening,and we will talk again soon.
Take care.
Hello and welcome to the School Can't
Experience podcast.
I'm Leisa Reichelt, and thispodcast is brought to you by the
School Can't Australiacommunity.
Caring for a young person who isstruggling to attend school can
be a stressful and isolatingexperience, but you are not
alone.
Thousands of parents acrossAustralia and many more around
the world face similarchallenges and experiences every
(00:27):
day.
Today we are returning to ourLived Experience series and I'm
joined by Mark Thompson.
Mark is a dad to two daughters,and today he's gonna share some
of the story of his family andtheir experience of School
Can't.
so unfortunately, the audioquality on this interview isn't
fantastic, so my apologies forthat.
But hopefully you'll still beable to really enjoy hearing
(00:50):
from Mark.
Mark, thank you so much forjoining us to share your story
on our podcast today.
Let's get started by getting toknow you and your family a
little bit, tell us a little bitabout you and the family and
where you've come from.
Mark Thompson (01:02):
So we live on the far south coast of New South
Wales.
There's four of us.
There's myself, my wife, Jo, andwe've got two beautiful
daughters.
One's ten, one's three, and Ioriginally moved to Australia
about 15, 16 years ago from theUK.
For work.
I've worked in the mental healthsector for the last 15 years and
lived experience space.
Leisa Reichelt (01:21):
fantastic.
Really appreciate you're our,first dad to come on and share
their perspective of the SchoolCan't lived experience.
Let's start from the beginningthen, shall we?
What are we calling your twodaughters today?
Mark Thompson (01:33):
My two daughters, I will just call in Australia
Bluey and Bingo
Leisa Reichelt (01:36):
All right.
let's start at, the beginning ofwhere the School Can't story
starts, from your perspectivewith Bluey.
Mark Thompson (01:43):
So when she used to go to daycare, she absolutely
loved it because it wasfreeform, she could do what she
liked.
She is a really curious kid andjust liked to do her own thing
in her own time, her own spaceand was wonderful.
So you'd sometimes go to pickher up and she'd be there going,
I don't want to leave I justwanna stay and have more fun.
(02:04):
And then, when we got topreschool, there was a few more
rules.
And she came back to us andsaid, i'm not quite sure I feel
comfortable here because theytell me what to do all the time,
and I don't like that.
And so as a first time parent,you kind of go away, you think
about that and you kind of go,well, your kids are gonna show
some resistance to certainthings when they're being asked
(02:26):
to do things they don't want todo.
You try and navigate that asbest you can and you have a chat
with the preschool and theteachers and the people who have
seen it before.
And then when we got to school,that really kind of ramped up.
Everything became difficult.
Demands were hard for her, themore she struggled emotionally
(02:48):
that led to really big sensoryissues So even getting dressed
in the mornings becameincredibly difficult.
Mornings, really could takehours and hours doing stuff like
ironing the soles of shoes andmaking sure there was not a
single crease.
It just became very, verydifficult to the point where,
school attendance ground to acomplete halt.
Internally you're kind of going,there's something not quite
(03:08):
right here you've got all theexpectations.
Your children have to go toschool, they have to get an
education, they have to learn,which is all correct, but, it
didn't fit for us and it didn'tfit for her..
Leisa Reichelt (03:18):
And so that was in kindy that it all just kind
of fell apart completely.
Mark Thompson (03:23):
Yeah.
I mean, kindy wasn't too bad inthat, but I'm thinking back now
and she's ten, and even goingback I don't think she ever did
a complete week.
And I'm looking back over thattime and just thinking to
myself, am I not doing thisright?
Am I not approaching this theright way?
Leisa Reichelt (03:38):
How was the school in those really early
days of her starting school andtrying to attend?
Mark Thompson (03:43):
Luckily she really liked her teacher.
And so, you know, on the days wecould get her there the teacher
would often come to the office,and we'd try and do a handover
and sometimes it would go wellbut most of the time it didn't.
Yeah.
The more resistance there wasthe tougher it got to have
honest conversations with themon what was happening.
So that's when you know, as aparent, you turn and go, what,
(04:05):
what do we need to do here?
So you seek the advice ofprofessionals.
And get diagnostics.
It turns out she was autisticand she is autistic should I
say, and, you know, that allowedus to research how to support
her.
We were incredibly lucky that wecould afford to go private.
looking at the public waitinglist and it would've been 2, 3,
4 years wait list, especiallywhen you live in a regional
(04:26):
area, I remember taking the dayoff work and ringing every
single pediatrician from Sydneyto Canberra.
Even the private ones hadmassive waiting lists.
And we were just lucky that wefound a pediatrician, in
Canberra.
A practice had just taken on twonew pediatricians, so we were
able to get an appointmentwithin two or three weeks.
Leisa Reichelt (04:42):
Wow.
Mark Thompson (04:42):
it was actually pretty lucky in the end.
Leisa Reichelt (04:44):
Luck off the back of a lot of hard work by
the sounds of it.
Mark Thompson (04:47):
It was, but it's just what, it's just what you
do, right?
To support your kid.
When you've got that diagnosis,you then try and go back to the
school and go, well, we've nowgot this diagnosis.
What supports are available?
Then there's confusion around,what she's entitled to, and,
conversations around funding.
Is the funding tied to theschool?
Is it tied to the child?
(05:07):
You're trying to support yourown mental health, you're trying
to, you know.
Work, you're trying to lookafter the family, all of that
stuff.
In the end, you're trying tomake sense of funding models and
stuff like that.
Go and advocate for yourself toget your daughter more support.
Leisa Reichelt (05:22):
So you talked a little bit about some of the
personal stresses and pressuresat home.
If you look back to those earlydays when Bluey first got her
autism diagnosis.
How was home life how are thingsgoing at home?
On top of all the schoolpressure.
Mark Thompson (05:37):
Her sleep was just always not great, and so we
were always tired and we alwaysfelt like we were fighting
everything.
For me I was trying to work 40hours a week and I was also
trying to support my wife who'sgoing through her own stuff and
trying to support my little girltoo.
You've got that societalexpectations whereby I was just
like, I've just got to fix thissomehow..
(05:59):
And so in my head, I'm going, isit about getting her to school
or is it about kind of, youknow, that wellbeing for, for us
all?
And so trying to balance what Ithink and what I feel versus
what I'm being to told I have todo.
Trying to manage it all was justso difficult.
(06:19):
I think for me, you feel a levelof shame of not being able to,
to, to manage everyone'swellness and support everyone in
the way you want to.
You have, how do I emotionallysupport, how do I intellectually
support, how do I financiallysupport, you still wanna try and
find, you still wanna try andfind joy in life as well.
You don't want life to becomethis rollercoaster of just
(06:40):
trying to manage things none ofthat seemed to be working.
There was anything that ahundred percent.
So yeah, just that internalgoing, what can I do differently
or what can I do more?
The answer was always workharder, you know, so, yeah.
Leisa Reichelt (06:55):
harder, try harder, push harder.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
So you had the diagnosis.
You are trying to get thatadditional support at school.
How did that go?
What was the next step in thatjourney?
Mark Thompson (07:13):
Oh, eventually there was an incident at the
school, where someone actuallybreached a boundary with her and
I was present for it and after Iwitnessed this I made a decision
there and then that she's notgoing back to this place that is
causing her harm.
We got a school counselorinvolved who, thankfully when
(07:33):
you live in a small community,you know each other.
And he was phenomenal.
He worked with us and we managedto register for a school out of
our area, which is 50 kilometersaway.
And that school had a supportunit.
And when she started to gothere, they were saying all the
(07:54):
right things and doing all theright things.
And met her with where she wasat.
And the principal did an amazingintake.
Her teacher and head of thatdepartment was phenomenal and
engaged her with her interests,Minecraft, dinosaurs, Pokemon,
all that kind of stuff.
And she learned by surroundingherself with things she loves.
(08:16):
And, yeah.
But that, that was, that wasreally good.
Leisa Reichelt (08:20):
Well, that's 50 Ks away.
She was having to hop up and getin the car and drive to school,
Mark Thompson (08:25):
I worked in that same town and the plan was for
me to get her to school on timeand then go to work myself, and
so that never happened, youknow, and I was constantly late
for work and I was constantlyhaving to take time off.
And that familiar story of howdo you work a full-time job?
How do you bring in enoughincome to, pay the mortgage, pay
the bills, and so it justbecomes this never ending thing.
(08:48):
All your conversations between,you and your partner become
logistics about who's gonna dowhat.
And when you're tired, it thenbecomes, but I did do this
yesterday.
It's not about blame, buteveryone feels under the pump
and no one feels like they'regetting a break.
And the terrible thing about itis.....
it's no one in our immediatefamily's fault.
Do you know what I mean?
Leisa Reichelt (09:09):
Everyone's trying the hardest, but everyone
feels like absolute crap.
Yeah.
And it is, it's very stressfulwith work, isn't it?
Because you never know what theday's going to bring until it's
happening.
And so it's like you can't plan,people can't plan around you
just, yeah.
It's, it's miserable, isn't it?
To have to go, I'm really sorry.
(09:30):
I'm gonna be at least an hourlate or two hours late, or I
won't be in at all.
Mark Thompson (09:35):
That's exactly what it was.
And so, yeah, I'd be theredriving to work and I'd have my,
you know, my personal phone andmy work phone.
And then constantly having topull over and just quickly text,
oh, I'm gonna be late for thisappointment, or, can you
rearrange this please?
And in your head, you're going.
Right, when we get there, I'llhave like a 15 minute buffer to
do the transition.
Then, the meltdown would happenoutside the school gates.
(09:56):
And that would be, I'm not gonnaget there for the next meeting
either.
Yeah.
Leisa Reichelt (10:01):
how important it is for you to stay calm, but
it's also impossible to staycalm'cause you're so stressed
out about all of the havoc thatyou're causing everywhere else
as well.
Yeah, it's very, very difficult,isn't it?
Mark Thompson (10:13):
You've gotta look after yourself.
You've gotta put your own oxygenmask on before you put anyone
else's on.
And it's so difficult to getanyone to understand.
And you get all that advice frompeople who haven't been through
it..
And you just need to be harder.
You just need to take theirgames away.
You need to make homeuncomfortable.
You need like, all of thatstuff, which, internally, made
(10:34):
me go, oh no, I can't, I can'tdo any of that,
Leisa Reichelt (10:37):
where were you getting that advice from?
Mark Thompson (10:39):
You get it from friends, you get it from
relatives, you get it from allover.
And again, it, it brings back tothat real, what are my core
values in this?
How do I see this?
I can't ever imagine, beingunable to attend a place which
doesn't feel safe for them.
It's an odd point of view, tosay, if you just make your kid
more miserable here, they'llwant to go to the slightly less
miserable place.
That doesn't make sense to me
Leisa Reichelt (11:01):
Do you think your personal history help to
inform that?
Because I think for a lot ofpeople there is kind of an
inherent logic of take the funthings away and then they'll
want to go to the place thatmust be relatively more fun.
Mark Thompson (11:13):
Yeah you're right, it did.
Having a personal history ofmental health challenges and
mental health recovery.
I was unwell for a very, verylong time.
It was by finding the thing thatmeant something to me that got
me out of that, that, thattaught me that there's a life
beyond what I'm experiencingright now.
I was housebound and I wasagrophobic.
(11:35):
And I remember sitting down oneday and going, well, I need
something to focus on.
So I started a blog,'cause blogswere really popular back in the
day.
And and that eventually became ahome business.
Having something I enjoyed, Iloved, gave me a reason and then
I just built momentum fromthere.
And I know, my experience iscompletely different to my
daughters and different toeveryone else's, but there are
(11:55):
building blocks you can use indifferent types of recovery, and
is what I always worked on withher is how do we connect, enjoy
things together and what is itabout the world that you find
interesting and how do weharness that,
Leisa Reichelt (12:06):
So there were lots of things about this school
that ticked a lot of boxes, andyet it wasn't really working.
Can you talk to why it didn'twork out the way that you hoped
do you have any insight intothat?
Mark Thompson (12:22):
the people there, they are well-meaning, great at
their jobs and they arepassionate.
They can't create theenvironment that is gonna stop
my daughter's nervous system,for lack of a better term,
freaking out, you know?
Whenever I picked my daughterup, she'd say, yeah, today was a
great day and I did this and Idid that with this person and
what, and then the next morningit would be that she was just so
(12:45):
tired that any demand would justbe impossible, you know?
So one day at school would leadto two days of burnout.
It was just too big for her.
Leisa Reichelt (12:59):
So where was she at school-wise?
By the time that you came toterms of the fact that it wasn't
really working out?
Mark Thompson (13:08):
Yeah, I think we were pretty aware after the
first 12 months to be quitehonest, and, you do that thing,
you do the try and push throughthing because you see joy there.
And so it's case, well if we canjust iron this out, if we can
just iron that out every step ofthe way, the school will like,
tell us what we need to do, youknow, there always open to
communication everything, but itjust, we just couldn't get what
(13:31):
we needed to get in order to...,We couldn't make the environment
what it needed to be,unfortunately.
Leisa Reichelt (13:38):
What are some of the things that you tried?
'cause I'm very familiar withthis carousel of like, well,
what if we try this?
Oh, we'll try this and thatmight work.
I just need to get the reciperight and then it'll be okay.
And you just go round and roundand round.
What are some of the things thatyou tried
Mark Thompson (13:50):
so, she really struggles with temperature
changes and therefore going outwith the sensory stuff, she
can't wear jumpers and thingslike that.
So it's case of, staying insideat break times or taking as many
breaks as she likes, and alwayshaving a lunch on her desk so
she can eat when she wanted, inclass whenever she wanted if I
managed to get her at 10 o'clockin the morning, I could take her
(14:12):
straight to class and that wouldbe all good.
They had extra movement stuffthere, like, more sport and they
involved her, all the kids inthat class had pets.
They gotta play networkMinecraft.
When they did cooking classesand life skills and things like
that, it was a case of,'Right,what's your favorite meal in the
world?
Let's make that.' There wasevery single thing that we
(14:33):
possibly could have done.
One of the things I think isreally important is to give
positive feedback I sent anemail to the, to the education
department, just praising theschool and their kind of neuro
affirming attitudes, and thethings they'd tried and they,
and they had tried.
So it was really, it was a shamefor everyone when it hadn't
(14:54):
worked out
Leisa Reichelt (14:56):
yeah.
Mark Thompson (14:56):
Amazing school for a really small regional
town.
Leisa Reichelt (15:00):
I can relate to that.
My son in his most recentattempt at school went to a
fantastic school which if he'dbeen able to get into a couple
of years earlier, would'veprobably solved all the
problems.
But by the time he got there, hewas just too burned out.
Finding that school was likefinding a little utopia for
neurodivergent kids.
There are amazing places outthere, but, even then, it
(15:22):
doesn't always work.
Okay.
So you got to the point whereyou're like, this is not
working.
I'm doing a lot of driving andnot getting a lot of school or
work done.
What next?
Mark Thompson (15:32):
Yeah, so homeschooling was the only
option really left for us.
And we're going through thatprocess at the moment of going
through the registration, andeverything.
But really interesting.
This week I did some work withher around grammar, capital
letter, commas, full stops.
And we, we, we put some computerskills on that.
So we put everything into aspreadsheet around one of her
(15:53):
hobbies.
She actually came up to me thenext day and said to me, can we
do some more work on thatproject today?
And that's never happenedbefore.
And it was, it was really,really, fascinating and
phenomenal for, us.
But it was great that, she feltin control that she was taken on
the lesson, like, when she madea mistake with spelling or
grammar or whatever.
(16:13):
She'd go, oh yeah, okay.
I need to, I need to rememberthat.
And so became a little bit of afun game to make a mistake, just
the two of us sat there andthat's the first ever time she's
asked to do more work, which wasjust phenomenal.
Leisa Reichelt (16:24):
Wow.
Mark Thompson (16:25):
That's what we're doing at the moment, When we
talk about how to interact inthe world now, she will want us
to say, can that be part of myeducation?
We say, yep.
What are we gonna do to makethat, what are you gonna learn
from that?
What are you gonna take fromthat?
Things like when she doesn'tsleep a few weeks ago, there's a
meteor shower at two or threeo'clock in the morning and she
wasn't asleep.
So lets learn science.
(16:48):
And so it was, it's, it's reallynice.
Wrap yourself in a blanket andwe're lucky where we live and,
you know, we can drive down tothe beach get a blanket and we
can lie there and watch themeteors and the stars so yeah,
we can do that now and that'sexactly what she needs.
I left my last job in November.
I'd been in for seven years.
And so I've set myself up inself employment..
(17:09):
I've worked full time, you know,the nine to five for the last 20
odd years.
Getting out of the headspace ofdoing that is really difficult
because you have thesetraditional, societal
expectations.
To dial that back, and realizethat I might need to do two
hours of work.
The kids are in bed or to thinkthat our weekends may not be
(17:33):
traditional weekends, And justcompletely flipping everything
on it head.
And even the logisticalchallenges with that is like,
okay, we need shared familycalendar now complicated.
And so for me, I trying to, tofind enough work as well is
difficult.
All that around, her needs andthe family's needs.
Actually, it's not an individualproblem we've never viewed it
(17:55):
that way.
How do we make our familysituation work, with her words,
big feelings?
When she got the diagnosis weasked her what she wanted to
refer to as, and she referred toit as her big feelings.
that's what we'll call it.
So how do we work with bigfeelings in our family?
Leisa Reichelt (18:10):
Home education.
Once you decided that that'swhat the pathway forward looked
like, what's been your approachto how you tackle that?
Mark Thompson (18:21):
Our approach has been interest led.
What is she interested in?
You have to get the essentialsin, right?
So things like learning to readand write.
We are led by her.
One of the things I've saidquite frequently is in this
whole journey, you have to trustyour gut.
And think I've learned more thananything, I have to trust her
gut because she's taught us somuch about different ways of
(18:43):
thinking, different ways being,and so if she tells us now
something's too much.
We know she's right, she's beenright since she was knee high.
And so therefore, just listeningto her and accepting her, she's
got a really good handle of howshe's feeling and what's
happening for her, both in hermind and body.
So just listening to that isreally important.
Leisa Reichelt (19:04):
Mark, we talked about the fact that you're our
first dad to come and share astory and, share your lived
experience with us.
I wonder if you have anythoughts on the male
perspective, the father'sperspective of the School Can't
experience?
You don't have to speak onbehalf of your entire gender,
obviously.
Mark Thompson (19:24):
It's really hard because for me, the whole
working 40 hours a week thingwas such a big thing to let go
of all the societal pressuresand expectations to do all the
things, be strong, to, you know,all of that stuff was just, it,
it weighed heavy on me.
Even though in my own head, andI'm working in mental health and
having my own stuff, I know morethan anyone that's not the case.
(19:45):
You don't have to, it's okay tospeak and reach out.
In those moments, I justcouldn't do any of that.
One of the things I'd try andget through to, to dads and men,
I guess is, find your tribe,find people you can talk to and
relate to.
I remember after school holidayI thought the two weeks had been
really restorative for us as afamily.
And then first day going back toschool we had a big meltdown in
(20:09):
the morning and school didn'thappen.
I just went onto the SchoolCan't forums, on Facebook just
put in this throwaway commentabout, you know, you think you,
you think you're replenished andthen, day one back and like its
like you've had no time at all.
And I dunno, there was just thisoverwhelming sense of, yeah, we
(20:29):
get you and we understand, doyou need anything, do you want
to talk.
For me it was one of thosemoments where I kind of, oh
yeah, people do actually getthis.
It was overwhelming the amountof people willing to talk,
listen and go on that journeywith you.
Leisa Reichelt (20:41):
Yeah, I think that for me that was what the
School Can't Facebook group was.
Going from feeling like the onlyparent on the planet who can't
get their child to go to school.
And then joining that group andrealizing that there were just
so many other people who hadexactly the same experience and
have, had all the samedifficulties and frustrations
(21:01):
and challenges.
It doesn't make anything anyeasier, but it just makes you
feel less lonely and lessshameful about things, doesn't
it?
Mark Thompson (21:08):
Exactly what I found when I went there and
yeah, when I, I put the messageon there, that's exactly what I
found.
Just people who got it.
People understood, people whoweren't judgmental, people who
didn't offer unsolicited advice.
They were just there.
Leisa Reichelt (21:23):
Mark, if you could say one thing to folks who
are on their School Can'tjourney now that you wish you
knew earlier or a resourcethat's been helpful for you,
what would you like people toknow about.
Mark Thompson (21:37):
The thing I was saying earlier about trusting
their gut, trust your SchoolCan't kid.
They know, and work with them,work alongside them.
'Cause when you do, you'll findlevels of connection you never
kind of expected.
And it's a journey you get to goon together.
Because you're here now doesn'tmean that you're always gonna be
here.
And eventually the journey willchange and the scenery will
become prettier and all thatkind of stuff.
(21:58):
And try and find the glimmerwhere you can, I suppose
Leisa Reichelt (22:01):
Lovely.
That's a beautiful place toclose.
Thank you so much for sharingyour journey.
I really appreciate it.
Mark Thompson (22:06):
My pleasure, thank you so much.
Leisa Reichelt (22:09):
I hope you enjoyed hearing about Mark and
his family's journey, and thattakeaway of trusting the gut of
our School Can't kid reallyresonates with you as well.
There's links in the episodenotes to find out more about
School Can't Australia and allof their resources.
If you found this podcasthelpful, please take a moment to
share, subscribe, maybe evengive us a rating or a review.
(22:30):
It really, really makes a hugedifference in helping us get the
podcast in front of people withSchool Can't kids who haven't
found the community yet.
If you've got feedback for us oryou'd like to share your own
School Can't lived experience,please drop an email to
schoolcantpodcast@gmail.com.
And if you are a parent or carerin Australia and you are feeling
distressed, please remember youcan always call the parent
(22:52):
helpline in your state.
A link with the number to callis in the episode notes.
Thank you again for listening,and we will talk again soon.
Take care.
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