June 30, 2025 • 34 mins
In this episode, host Leisa Reichelt is joined by Lisa McLean as they discuss her daughter Mia's struggles with school attendance and anxiety.
Lisa shares her family's journey from identifying early signs of anxiety in primary school, navigating high school challenges, understanding the mind-body connection, to ultimately finding alternative educational pathways.
They discuss the stress and pressure felt by the entire family, the impact of trauma, and strategies such as homeschooling and mental health support and how Mia has emerged from the experience as an independent young person, optimistic for a rewarding future.
00:00 Welcome to the School Can't Experience Podcast
00:27 Introducing Lisa McLean and Her Family
01:41 Early Signs and Struggles in Primary School
03:42 Challenges in High School
04:53 Seeking Help and Initial Interventions
08:46 The Turning Point: Homeschooling and Alternative Education
16:08 The Impact of COVID-19 and Family Healing
23:19 Finding a New Path: TAFE and Independence
29:00 Reflections and Advice for Other Parents
33:11 Closing Remarks and Resources
Recommended Resources
- The Body Keeps The Score by Bessel Van Der Kolk (Book) - https://www.amazon.com.au/Body-Keeps-Score-Healing-Trauma/dp/0143127748
- When the Body Says No by Gabor Mate (Book) - https://drgabormate.com/book/when-the-body-says-no/
- Lisa’s things she wished she knew (from one mum to another): https://stan.store/Calmlifeproject/p/what-i-wish-i-knew-from-one-mum-to-another
- Lisa’s instragram: https://www.instagram.com/calmlifeproject/
- Lisa’s Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/calmlifeproject
- School Can’t Australia Facebook Community - https://www.facebook.com/groups/schoolphobiaschoolrefusalaustralia
- Make a donation to School Can’t Australia - https://www.schoolcantaustralia.com.au/get-involved
If you are a parent of carer in Australia and experiencing distress, please call Lifeline on 13 11 14 or contact the Parent Help Line. - https://kidshelpline.com.au/parents/issues/how-parentline-can-help-you
You can contact us to volunteer to share your School Can't story or some feedback via email on schoolcantpodcast@gmail.com
Disclaimer
The content of this podcast is based on personal lived experiences and is shared for informational and storytelling purposes only. It should not be treated as medical, psychological, or professional advice under any circumstances. If you have concerns about your health or well-being, please seek guidance from a doctor, therapist, or other qualified professional.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Leisa Reichelt (00:05):
Hello and welcome to the School Can't
Experience Podcast.
I'm Leisa Reichelt, and thispodcast is brought to you by the
School Can't Australiacommunity.
Caring for a young person who isstruggling to attend school can
be a stressful and isolatingexperience, but you are not
alone.
Thousands of parents acrossAustralia and many more around
the world face similarchallenges and experiences every
(00:26):
day.
Today we are sharing another ofour lived experience stories and
we're joined by Lisa McLean.
Lisa's daughter Mia struggledwith school, especially
throughout high school, but ittook the whole family to learn
and to heal in order to get to apositive outcome.
We kicked off this interview byasking Lisa to give us a little
(00:46):
bit of an introduction toherself and to her family.
Lisa McLean (00:49):
My name's Lisa.
We have two children, and theyare now young adults.
Our son is 22 and our daughteris 19.
We live on the Gold Coast at themoment.
But we are from Sydneyoriginally, so I suppose our
School Can't experiences allhappened in Sydney.
I've been part of the SchoolCan't community since 2019.
We had a son who breezed fairlywell through school and really
(01:12):
enjoyed it and had that sort ofschool experience I suppose that
we expect as parents.
Our daughter was very differentever since they were babies they
were very much chalk and cheese.
Yeah.
I suppose I realize that becauseeveryone's different and every
child is different, that youneed to parent differently with
each child.
And I think that was a bigrealization for us that what
(01:34):
worked for our son wasn'tworking for our daughter.
Leisa Reichelt (01:38):
That makes so much sense.
Let's talk about your daughterthen.
Where does the story begin, doyou think?
Lisa McLean (01:44):
So the School Can't was high school, but looking
back, it did begin in primaryschool and it actually began
probably Year One or Two.
and it's really in hindsight,obviously, that we've realized
the connection there.
Just through the journey we arelike, where did this start?
Recently, I've had some longconversations with her now she's
19 and she said she struggled inprimary school as well, but it
(02:06):
wasn't clear to us what wasgoing on for her.
Leisa Reichelt (02:11):
Lisa, if you look back in retrospect, what
are the signs that you think youmissed?
Lisa McLean (02:15):
This is something I love to share with other parents
just because, you know, if onlywe knew I think it was year one
or two, she had a lot of tummypain.
We went down the path ofconstipation, food.
I've always been sort of aholistic health type person, so
I've always seen naturopaths anddelved into things relating to
(02:36):
health.
But we didn't know aboutanxiety.
This was in 2014, 15.
I didn't understand how anxietycan affect the body,
particularly the gut and the gutbrain connection.
I soon learned, but back then,she just found school hard.
She found friendships hard.
(02:59):
She did okay and got to schoolmost of the time and she did
have friends, but we could seethat she struggled a bit with
keeping friendships.
She was a pretty happy child.
And I suppose our first thingaround the gut was food.
So we removed sugars andpreservatives and we went down
all that route, which we knowcan also help the brain, but it
(03:20):
wasn't actually addressing whatI believe now was anxiety around
school friendships.
She's quite a sensitive, I'd sayshe's really an empath, so she
really was not coping, I thinkwith school environment, the
sounds, the expectations, all ofthose things in primary school.
Leisa Reichelt (03:38):
So she's managed to show up and do reasonably
well until high school.
Lisa McLean (03:42):
I think this is the thing is obviously High school
is a big change for all kids.
It's a different school, adifferent day, with different
teachers, maybe more kids.
We were undecided what sort ofschool we should send her to, to
very last minute.
And she decided she wanted to gowhere her friend group was
going.
It was a local all girls school.
Year seven started and she wasput into a class without any of
(04:04):
her primary school friends,which I think was one thing that
we tended not push those sortsof things.
It's like you'll cope.
You gotta meet new people, yougotta adjust.
By then she had anxiety andreally wasn't finding it easy to
settle into high school.
That anxiety just developed andevolved over the year in year
(04:25):
seven.
and the friendships seemed todisappear, which was also, I
suppose, you know, they hit highschool and things change.
They meet new people.
So the friendship dissolved abit and, that was hard.
She was struggling to get toschool.
So we hit a point of I can't getto school, I can't get out of
(04:46):
bed.
I don't want to go.
It just got worse as year sevenwent along.
We hit halfway through the yearand started to talk to the
school.
The school got involved.
There was a year coordinator andthere was one counselor, and
they did have meetings with usand we did discuss how we could
(05:07):
get her to school, how she couldfeel more comfortable in the
school environment.
We did try some of those things,it got to the point that I drove
her to the school gate and shecouldn't even get past the
school gate.
Leisa Reichelt (05:19):
what were some of the strategies that you were
trying to use at that stage?
Lisa McLean (05:22):
I think the thing is, that we have these
expectations, of our childrenthat they need to go to school.
My husband works a full-time jobin an office.
I was working part-time in anoffice then, but I do work a lot
from home, so I had a bit moreflexibility, it became a case of
trying to sort of calmly in themorning, get her going and, and
(05:46):
then drive her to school we puta lot of pressure on, you know,
this has to happen and, I don'tknow.
We're not big consequence peoplebut, it was sort of like you
know, you need to go to schooland that's that.
And the thing is we felt verystressed by it, you know, as so
many School Can't parents know.
So there was a real buildup ofstress around the whole family
(06:09):
in trying to get her to school.
Leisa Reichelt (06:11):
So if you go back to those times in your
mind, what was life like for thefamily when this was going on?
Lisa McLean (06:17):
I think, it really impacts everyone, doesn't it?
So, we were both highly stressedover it and our son probably was
ignored a bit.
Because, we were focused on ourdaughter.
And yeah, there was a lot ofstress, and I think that's
something I learned a lot aboutin this process.
Just how stress can affect youand mean clarity in thoughts and
(06:40):
looking at a bigger picturemaking some decisions was very
hard.
We just didn't know where toturn or what we should do next.
So there was a lot of lookingeverywhere for answers, and who
can help us?
What else should we try?
The school wasn't very helpfulwith that.
And so it was really a case ofactually we need to work this
(07:01):
out ourselves.
It did take a long time for usto figure out what to do.
And that was really thebeginning of her journey because
we did pull her from school, wegot through year seven.
By the end of year seven though,we did have occasions.
So by then, probably threequarters of the way through the
year, we had her kicking andscreaming on the bedroom floor,
(07:24):
and me in tears not knowing whatto do.
Often my husband was at work orI would keep him at home because
I didn't know, you know, what weshould do.
And I one day thought there'sgotta be someone who can help me
with this.
We ended up being advised tocall the Child Youth Mental
Health Services, which happenedto be just down the road from
us.
(07:44):
It was recommended that we goand talk to them.
And then when it got to suchsort of a dramatic, like, we
can't get her out the door, Ithought there's gotta be another
answer.
that was the beginning of usseeing a psychologist.
Leisa Reichelt (07:57):
and how well was she able to talk about what was
going on for her?
Lisa McLean (08:01):
Not at all.
Truthfully, we had two yearswith them, which was a long time
for that mental health service.
We were bumped up to sort of thetrauma group when other things
happen in year eight and yearnine.
But really, you know, I draggedher there too.
I was like, this has gotta behelpful.
You've gotta get there.
So even that in itself, I feelreally traumatized her a bit, me
(08:23):
trying to drag her to apsychologist.
We had family groups,one-on-one, just me and her with
the psychologist, and then alsothe psychologist and her on her
own.
She's told me recently, shesaid, I just don't think it was
helpful at all.
We did some family therapy.
Some of it was useful.
I think it was useful for me tohave someone to talk to at the
time.
(08:43):
We went down that route and shedid get through year seven.
We removed her and she did somework from home and we got
through the year and then we gotto the end of the year and we're
discussing what to do next.
Should she go to a differentschool?
this is where, you know, it gotinteresting because, with this
(09:04):
anxiety, because she wasn'thappy at school, she started to
look elsewhere for friends andalso started to disappear and
hang out with other people, notfrom the school.
She now says to me, mum, it wasjust to make me feel better.
Anything that removed her from,what she was having to deal
with.
(09:24):
So, year seven, summer schoolholidays, she ran around and
hung out with kids.
Unfortunately an incidenthappened to her during the
school holidays and she wasquite traumatized by it.
That added to the anxiety shehad.
She said, I wanna try going backto the same school, and we
(09:46):
decided to give it a go.
We didn't realize howtraumatized she was from this
incident and this incident in agang of girls, bullying, social
media.
I think she thought.
Year seven isn't easy.
It would probably get better.
My friends are still there.
Although those friends, shewasn't hanging out with a lot.
(10:10):
And I think she just wasn't evensure where else she wanted to
go.
And we did open it up to her.
We said, we are open to whateveryou want, but she just did a
refusal.
No, I'll just stick with this.
Leisa Reichelt (10:23):
Yeah, I think that narrative too, that that
idea that year seven is hard andeveryone finds it hard in year
seven and it'll be easier inyear eight.
I heard that a lot from my sonas well.
I think it's what you hear fromteaching staff quite a bit, and
I'm sure it's true for somekids.
Lisa McLean (10:38):
And us too.
You know, we thought, give thisa go.
Not understanding that shecouldn't engage with anything.
Year eight didn't last long, atthat school.
I think about three months ofwhich she hardly got there.
I was like, this has to change.
It was then that I startedlooking into alternatives and
(11:01):
thought, maybe it's actuallyhomeschooling.
I saw a bit on School Can'tobviously, so I I was like, what
is this?
And then I thought, I can't dothis.
This is another thing I thought,yes, I could be at home, but I
was like, I'm not sure that Ican actually do the whole
homeschooling thing.
What I did discover was theAustralian Christian College,
(11:22):
they had an online school, Ithink it was one of the first
ones around,'cause this was preCOVID.
We looked into that and wethought, okay, this could be an
option.
It means she can stay at homeand she's not sort of trying to
get to school.
She can still be taught it's acurriculum we need to be around,
but it's all given to her,without us having to do the
(11:42):
homeschooling ourselves.
So we signed up for them.
Leisa Reichelt (11:45):
Lisa, can I go back?
Just to where you were sayingyou were thinking about home
education, but you were sayingyou couldn't do it.
Why were you telling yourselfthat you couldn't do it?
Lisa McLean (11:54):
I just think I knew nothing about it and I felt like
there was a lot that I had toget my head around to teach her
at home.
Back now, I suppose the wholeconcept of even unschooling or
really just doing lifedifferently and not worrying
almost about lessons and things,I probably would've been quite,
that's literally what we did inthe end, there's more
(12:15):
information out there now that Iwould've understood it better.
Leisa Reichelt (12:20):
Yeah, there's a sense of kind of overwhelm isn't
there, with so much to get yourhead around.
It's, it's definitely achallenge.
I guess you've kind offoreshadowed how it went with
the virtual school.
Lisa McLean (12:30):
Yeah.
So the thing with that was,realizing that now we know.
She wasn't able to learnanything.
It didn't matter where it was,whether it was at school, at
home.
And this is something I supposeto understand around any
parents, if their child is notdiagnosed with anything in
particular or not just copingwhat's actually going on?
(12:53):
And has there been trauma or istheir nervous system like high
stress?
And of course anxiety is a formof high stress, but the brain
turns off and they can't absorbanything.
So there's no learning happeninguntil you actually heal that.
And this is what we learned overtime.
We didn't even know back then.
Leisa Reichelt (13:13):
So there's no accommodation that would've
helped you needed to get herinto a more calm, regulated
state.
Lisa McLean (13:20):
What happened with her is when we go back to what
stressed does to the body andthe fight, flight, freeze.
She went into flight.
So suddenly home, she didn'tfeel happy at home.
So she didn't feel happy atschool.
Suddenly she didn't feel happyat home.
She was at home a lot and wewere trying to get her to do
(13:41):
work at home.
So she disappeared.
So we had her go into a mode of,yeah, you know, becoming almost
a street child.
She disappeared.
And hung out with kids thatweren't necessarily kids that
helped She just wanted to escapewhat she was feeling.
(14:03):
And She's talked to me aboutthat recently.
It was a case of I'm just gonnago and hang out which included
drinking, which included smokingdope, which included getting on
a train and disappearingovernight because it was an
escapism and it was making herfeel better, not being in
reality and not having to dealwith what was going on inside
(14:24):
her.
So that's what happened for her.
Leisa Reichelt (14:29):
So when you reflect on this, do you feel
that by bringing schooling intothe home, that kind of made home
an unsafe place for her, is, isthat what happened, do you
think?
Lisa McLean (14:40):
In hindsight we are still trying to figure out,
exactly why I, think it camedown to the pressure we were
putting on her, the expectationswe had, but not understanding
fully the mental health concernsor the anxiety, how it was
(15:01):
affecting her.
So two things we learned aboutparenting.
My husband and I was one, I waslike many mothers.
I was a helper.
So I was just always trying tohelp her feel better.
And I was also doing things thatalmost just, you know, I would
run around and try and find herand go and pick her up from here
(15:21):
and there.
And I was just helping, butactually not helping her because
I wasn't understanding what wasgoing on for her.
I was just trying to fix things.
My husband and I, there was alsothat sort of discipline.
One of the parenting groups wewent to was about drawing the
line in the sand and discussingwhat we would or would not put
up with.
At the time, my husband and Iwere like, there's no line in
the sand for our daughter.
(15:43):
We can't make it anymore.
We'd gone beyond that and thatwas a really hard thing to get
our head around, like, well thenwhat do we do?
So we really had to delve intounderstanding it all better.
Leisa Reichelt (16:01):
so how did that happen?
How did you get to thatunderstanding?
I guess you're still maybe onthat journey in a way?
Lisa McLean (16:06):
Oh, what a journey, right?
Interestingly enough, part ofthis story is COVID, can you
believe we were locked down foralmost two years it wasn't good
for many people.
It actually was amazing for usand only because she couldn't
run anymore.
She had to come home and we hadto work through things together.
(16:28):
That was quite useful.
There was no school obviouslywith COVID, so that was almost
for her relief.
So it was like, actually there'sno pressure to go to school
'cause no one's going to school.
So that was amazing and that'swhere actually there was a bit
of pressure off us all, like,oh, we just have to be at home.
you know, what I discovered inthis process was a lot about
(16:52):
nervous system regulation, aboutstress on the body.
Not just for her, but for me andfor my husband, for the family.
COVID allowed us to de-stress,focus on ourselves, and heal a
bit, which then helped us healthe connection with Mia.
but it did take a while.
The school journey did continuebecause we had the lockdown for
(17:14):
a while and then it was like,okay, everyone's back to school.
And we said to Mia, so, do youwanna go back to school?
And she said, yes.
But she said, I can't go back tothe school we were at.
And I say, okay, let's find aschool.
And there came the problem thatshe did not want to go to a all
girls school.
And there was a co-ed school nottoo far away, but it wasn't in
(17:36):
our area.
With the education department,that's not possible.
So then we had the journey withthe education department,
working with them on saying, ifyou want Mia to go to school and
she does wanna go to school, weneed to find her a school.
We went to the co-ed school.
They did accept her.
It wasn't too far from our home,and we thought this was a great
(17:58):
new beginning.
She seemed keen at the time, butdidn't last long.
And again, now I know, hernervous system wasn't healed.
She still had trauma in her andunfortunately there was some
kids there who did bully her.
She even tells us now when shewent to school.
We thought she was at school.
She came home, laid in her bed.
(18:21):
She went into depressive statesand, and this is the thing in
between having her run away.
We also had her at home in bed,in a dark room, not being able
to move.
So we went between those sortsof experiences for, for probably
a year or more.
(18:42):
So that was school two or schoolthree.
We were still, like, schoolneeds to happen.
And I think particularly becausethe education department says,
well, you have to do something.
So, there was that externalpressure on us, which I know
many parents are going through.
You have to get to school.
(19:02):
So we did try third or fourthschool where she had to actually
go to school.
But that again, was talking tothe education department saying,
if you want her to go to school,you need to find a school for
us, and it has to be out of ourarea.
This was due to the bullies inour area.
So this was me willing to drivefurther to take her to school
and the school to take her on.
(19:24):
And they did,
Leisa Reichelt (19:24):
And so the education department were
reasonably cooperative with thatbecause of the bullying aspect.
Do you think?
Lisa McLean (19:30):
By then we had so many different psychologists,
hospitals, doctors, mentalhealth experts say we can't put
her back into a school in thisarea.
She has to go somewhere else.
This school had to be willing toaccept her and understand all
her history.
There was a lot of back andforth as we know for parents, it
(19:53):
was just so much, to get my headaround who we had to deal with,
what we had to provide.
I recently went through all myemails, the letters from this
person and that person to tryand get it all to happen.
She did go this other school,and that was the school that in
the end, again, she got tooanxious at school.
The anxiety, by now, if we lookback started in year one and
(20:17):
two, and although we did somethings, we didn't fully
understand the extent of it.
We realized school is not forher.
But that was a bit of a journeyfor us to realize that she just
can't get to a school full stopI think there was a very low
self-confidence in herself andwho she was and this was growing
(20:38):
up too, right?
And I think that the traumaticexperience she had just pushed
it to the next level.
And us not understanding enoughearly on didn't help the
process.
I was looking everywhere forhelp from anyone, and in the end
it actually came down to Iactually need to understand all
(21:01):
of this better and need to helpmyself and my family to be able
to help her.
We were all so highly stressedby this stage that we were just
feeding off each other and it'sjust really not healthy.
Until we actually looked at ourparenting, until we were able to
step back and say, actuallymental health is the priority,
(21:23):
for both her and for the rest ofthe family.
Then we actually managed to sortof heal ourselves without
external help.
But it was a journey and itwasn't overnight.
It was a lot of learnings and alot of changing how we lived our
life and just doing things a bitdifferently.
Leisa Reichelt (21:41):
Yeah.
That's a really interestingreflection though.
I think a lot of the time yourinstinct is that you need to
outsource this to aprofessional, right?
Someone needs to come in and dothe fixing and then we can all
get back on track again.
But I think what a lot of usexperience is that we actually
have to learn so much and wehave to change ourselves so much
(22:02):
and how we are in order tocreate a different kind of
environment for our child, andyou can't outsource that.
Lisa McLean (22:09):
Yeah.
The reality is understandingourselves better and why we
behave certain ways or why wehave certain expectations or why
we hold stress the way we do,healing ourselves then allows us
to be better parents.
We needed to look inwards andreally change things up for
(22:29):
ourselves and really, you know,learn a bit about ourselves and,
that allowed us then to be ableto support her better.
We do our best.
And, you know, I say ourdaughter is definitely my
biggest teacher in my life todate because, despite going
through all of that, which Inever wish on any child or
parent.
There's been a lot of growth andhealing and a lot of
(22:51):
understanding about ourselvesthrough the process.
So that's, that's thepost-traumatic growth from the
experience that we now have,which, you know, I feel very
grateful that we can have thatbecause she is healthy and well
and coping now, which isamazing.
Leisa Reichelt (23:09):
Well, let's pick up the story again.
We were at school number four orfive, which she got into, but
then that didn't work.
What happened next?
Lisa McLean (23:16):
So by this time she was year nine.
And that school, after workingthrough why she couldn't stay in
classrooms and learn, agreed tosign her out of school, into
TAFE, into Certificate TwoVocational Pathways.
It's a 10 week course at TAFE.
(23:38):
At the time there was only twoor three places in Sydney that
offered it.
And they took intakes twice ayear.
And they only took maybe 10 or12 children.
We went for an interview withthem.
A couple of amazing ladies ranit.
And, I was in tears at themeeting because I thought
(23:58):
finally someone understandswhat's been going on for her.
They took her in this was it wasaround just the end of COVID
period.
So she wasn't yet 16, she wasstill 15 and she went there
every day.
Not a problem for 10 weeks anddid whatever work she needed to
(24:21):
do.
She said, mom, it wasn't thatcomplicated.
It wasn't hard.
She's a fairly intelligent girl,you know, she just couldn't do
school.
So she was able to get throughthat.
Not a problem.
And she has said to me, she justfelt so happy that she never had
to go to school again.
she was still struggling formental health.
(24:42):
There was still depressiveepisodes.
We were still learning about howto help her heal, soon after she
finished that we were inlockdown again.
That TAFE was linked toBradfield College in Sydney
where you can go and do year 11,12.
I've got a friend whosedaughter's there who said it's
been amazing for her daughter.
We had thought about thosepathways, but COVID got in the
(25:04):
way.
Suddenly there was nothing goingon.
We had to wait.
In that process of waiting, shewent and got a job.
It was amazing.
We actually, it was aninteresting journey because she
still was struggling, a lot.
She didn't really want to livewith us and we were working
(25:25):
through that.
And she had an opportunity tolive, near her grandparents, in
an apartment.
So we said to her, why don't wetrial?
Living on your own, getting ajob and supporting yourself
because if you can't supportyourself, then you need to come
(25:46):
back home.
Now, this is not ideal, youknow, it was a huge thing for us
to even agree to that at such ayoung age.
It's not what we thought herlife would look like.
But it was an acceptance of thisis her journey, her mental
health is priority.
Let's just with it and see, seewhat happens.
Who was her boss, who becamelike a mentor for her.
(26:08):
She made her money, shesupported herself.
She started going to the gym andthis was a huge turnaround I
think, for her.
I suppose that's connectingtrauma and stress in the body.
If teens can't talk, then it'salso understanding that there's
things they can do, with a bodythat can release trauma, and
(26:31):
that can be movement, that canbe meditation, mindfulness, it
can be breath work, it can besomatic work.
There's a lot of stuff they cando.
They have to be willing to doit.
And that's the toughest thing aswe know teenagers.
But she decided she wanted to goto the gym and almost came quite
obsessed with the gym, but itactually was so helpful for her
mental health.
(26:52):
So she lives on her own,supports herself doing amazing.
And she's 19 now, and she's juststarted a course at TAFE To be a
social worker.
Which we just think is amazingbecause for her now, she's sort
of healing and working.
She's been seeing a holisticcounselor.
She understands now aboutjournaling and meditation and
(27:14):
all those things that can help.
She now wants to do social workso she can help other young
people who went through what shedid.
Its early days.
And truthfully, because shedidn't have much schooling at
all.
It's not been easy.
It's all online.
But just trying to get her headaround some of those things that
we learn at school around,writing essays She used to be a
(27:36):
great writer when she wasyounger, and so it is just
taking time.
But she's excited to be learningagain.
It's a real example that we justhave to lean into what's gonna
work for our child and thatthere is so many pathways, you
know, school, going to schoolisn't the end all, and they'll
be ready to learn when they'reready, if they want to.
(27:57):
And we know that, you can go outinto the world do, things that
you're passionate about and besuccessful in whatever you want.
And you don't actually have toto school.
So.
Leisa Reichelt (28:06):
All of that lived experience that she has
can hopefully be transformedinto something that's really
valuable for so many otherpeople as well.
Lisa McLean (28:13):
I hope so.
And again, it's still a journey,right?
Both our children are grown up,but we are still, you know, I
want to share my story
Leisa Reichelt (28:19):
Yeah.
Lisa McLean (28:20):
other parents understand that they're not
alone and that a child's SchoolCan't journey can be very
different for every child.
They can get through there.
And remember always thinking, Ijust can't see the light at the
end of the tunnel.
Like I just don't know wherethis is heading.
And particularly when she was onthe streets when she was
struggling so much when we endedup in hospitals I was like,
(28:42):
what?
I was worrying so much about thefuture.
And again, that bring comingback to the present and going,
actually we just need to focuson the present and what's going
on for her mental health andhealing that.
And with that, then the pathwill unfold.
Leisa Reichelt (28:56):
that's a very good transition, to our closing
questions.
So Lisa, if you could go back intime and tell yourself
something, what do you thinkyou'd say?
Lisa McLean (29:08):
What would it be?
So many lessons.
I wish I knew more about howstress and anxiety affects the
body.
What would I say back then is, Isuppose, you know, it will be
okay.
It's like, you're so caught upin helping and fixing.
Actually, it's really importantto step back and just be with
(29:33):
whatever's going on.
A concept that I learned from afriend that I then really delved
into was holding the space forher.
And for us to say, we need tostop the pressure, stop the
expectations, stop the judgment.
She needs to feel safety in thebody.
And that it's okay that schoolwasn't her path.
(29:55):
And not worry about thejudgements and the expectations
of everyone else.
Yeah, there's a lot really isn'tthere?
Leisa Reichelt (30:05):
That's lovely.
Lisa McLean (30:06):
So,
Leisa Reichelt (30:07):
Is there anything that you haven't said
that you would really likepeople to know?
People who are on their ownSchool Can't journey right now.
What would you really like themto know?
Lisa McLean (30:15):
I have said this a few times.
I think really that in the end,our mental health is priority
that just focus on, on mentalhealth
Leisa Reichelt (30:26):
and then finally, of all of the different
resources that you have accessthroughout
Lisa McLean (30:32):
Mm
Leisa Reichelt (30:32):
pathway in supporting your daughter and
understanding what she's goingthrough, is there something that
stands out that you would wannarecommend to people to use as a
resource to learn from?
Lisa McLean (30:42):
Yeah.
I suppose one thing I did wannashare was particularly when it
comes to teenagers, disengaged,fighting, battling, withdrawing.
Something is going on and it'sreally understanding to not take
on what's maybe coming back atyou in regards to behavior and
(31:03):
get to the bottom of what'sgoing on.
Understanding trauma stress andnervous system regulation is
super important.
I got hold of the book, the BodyKeeps the Score early on, by
Bessel Van Der Kolk, and thatwas an eye-opener.
That was like, wow, okay.
(31:24):
I can see in my daughter what hewas talking about.
And Gabor Mate quite well knownin the health of wellness
industry and now, you know, canfind him everywhere online, what
he talks about.
I really do believe that, youknow, mind body connection,
what's going on in the body.
So understanding, how traumaaffects the body, and what's
(31:49):
maybe going on around anxietyfor your child and there's
different types of anxiety theycould be experiencing.
I think you need to work outwhat tools and techniques, and
my daughter said they didn'tteach me how to help myself.
If we as parents understand andhelp ourselves when we're
stressed and overwhelmed'causeof what we are going through,
(32:10):
those things that we learn to,to calm our system, calm our
body, we need to teach ourchildren.
And I think that's reallyimportant.
Then just thinking apsychologist, in particular is
gonna help.
Our daughter eventually had asocial worker.
And that was actually in the endquite helpful.
It was when she was sort ofcoming out closer to 16, but a
(32:33):
social worker who actually tookher out for a walk, had coffee
with her because sitting in aroom, and talking wasn't
working.
So, it is just looking for thosedifferent, therapists that can
support you, but also learning,the tools and techniques
yourself
Leisa Reichelt (32:50):
Excellent.
Wonderful advice.
Lisa, thank you so much forsharing your journey, your
story, all the things you'velearned so that others of us can
benefit from it.
I really appreciate it.
Lisa McLean (33:04):
it's been lovely talking to you and I really do
hope it's other school campcommunity and the wider
community
Leisa Reichelt (33:11):
whenever I have the privilege of hearing another
family's School Can'texperience, I'm always struck by
the way there are many familiarthemes, but every story is so
unique and we all have to findour own way through it.
Hopefully there's something inLisa's story that's helpful for
you right now.
I put the links to the BodyKeeps the Score book that Lisa
recommended, as well as someresources that she's very kindly
(33:33):
shared on her own website thatshe hopes will be helpful for
parents experiencing SchoolCan't.
I've also put links to theSchool Can't Australia website
and information about the parentsupport peer group there as
well.
If you have found this podcasthelpful, please do take a moment
to share, to subscribe, maybeeven give us a rating or review.
(33:53):
It really does make a hugedifference in helping us get the
podcast in the hands of peoplewho are experiencing School
Can't and haven't found thecommunity and all the
information we share just yet.
If you have some feedback for usor perhaps you'd like to share
your own School Can't livedexperience, which we would love,
please drop us an email toschoolcantpodcast@gmail.com.
(34:16):
If you are a parent or carer inAustralia and you are feeling
distressed, please remember youcan always call the Parent
Helpline in your state.
A link with the number to callis in the episode notes.
Thank you again for listening,and we will talk again soon.
Take care.
Hello and welcome to the School Can't
Experience Podcast.
I'm Leisa Reichelt, and thispodcast is brought to you by the
School Can't Australiacommunity.
Caring for a young person who isstruggling to attend school can
be a stressful and isolatingexperience, but you are not
alone.
Thousands of parents acrossAustralia and many more around
the world face similarchallenges and experiences every
(00:26):
day.
Today we are sharing another ofour lived experience stories and
we're joined by Lisa McLean.
Lisa's daughter Mia struggledwith school, especially
throughout high school, but ittook the whole family to learn
and to heal in order to get to apositive outcome.
We kicked off this interview byasking Lisa to give us a little
(00:46):
bit of an introduction toherself and to her family.
Lisa McLean (00:49):
My name's Lisa.
We have two children, and theyare now young adults.
Our son is 22 and our daughteris 19.
We live on the Gold Coast at themoment.
But we are from Sydneyoriginally, so I suppose our
School Can't experiences allhappened in Sydney.
I've been part of the SchoolCan't community since 2019.
We had a son who breezed fairlywell through school and really
(01:12):
enjoyed it and had that sort ofschool experience I suppose that
we expect as parents.
Our daughter was very differentever since they were babies they
were very much chalk and cheese.
Yeah.
I suppose I realize that becauseeveryone's different and every
child is different, that youneed to parent differently with
each child.
And I think that was a bigrealization for us that what
(01:34):
worked for our son wasn'tworking for our daughter.
Leisa Reichelt (01:38):
That makes so much sense.
Let's talk about your daughterthen.
Where does the story begin, doyou think?
Lisa McLean (01:44):
So the School Can't was high school, but looking
back, it did begin in primaryschool and it actually began
probably Year One or Two.
and it's really in hindsight,obviously, that we've realized
the connection there.
Just through the journey we arelike, where did this start?
Recently, I've had some longconversations with her now she's
19 and she said she struggled inprimary school as well, but it
(02:06):
wasn't clear to us what wasgoing on for her.
Leisa Reichelt (02:11):
Lisa, if you look back in retrospect, what
are the signs that you think youmissed?
Lisa McLean (02:15):
This is something I love to share with other parents
just because, you know, if onlywe knew I think it was year one
or two, she had a lot of tummypain.
We went down the path ofconstipation, food.
I've always been sort of aholistic health type person, so
I've always seen naturopaths anddelved into things relating to
(02:36):
health.
But we didn't know aboutanxiety.
This was in 2014, 15.
I didn't understand how anxietycan affect the body,
particularly the gut and the gutbrain connection.
I soon learned, but back then,she just found school hard.
She found friendships hard.
(02:59):
She did okay and got to schoolmost of the time and she did
have friends, but we could seethat she struggled a bit with
keeping friendships.
She was a pretty happy child.
And I suppose our first thingaround the gut was food.
So we removed sugars andpreservatives and we went down
all that route, which we knowcan also help the brain, but it
(03:20):
wasn't actually addressing whatI believe now was anxiety around
school friendships.
She's quite a sensitive, I'd sayshe's really an empath, so she
really was not coping, I thinkwith school environment, the
sounds, the expectations, all ofthose things in primary school.
Leisa Reichelt (03:38):
So she's managed to show up and do reasonably
well until high school.
Lisa McLean (03:42):
I think this is the thing is obviously High school
is a big change for all kids.
It's a different school, adifferent day, with different
teachers, maybe more kids.
We were undecided what sort ofschool we should send her to, to
very last minute.
And she decided she wanted to gowhere her friend group was
going.
It was a local all girls school.
Year seven started and she wasput into a class without any of
(04:04):
her primary school friends,which I think was one thing that
we tended not push those sortsof things.
It's like you'll cope.
You gotta meet new people, yougotta adjust.
By then she had anxiety andreally wasn't finding it easy to
settle into high school.
That anxiety just developed andevolved over the year in year
(04:25):
seven.
and the friendships seemed todisappear, which was also, I
suppose, you know, they hit highschool and things change.
They meet new people.
So the friendship dissolved abit and, that was hard.
She was struggling to get toschool.
So we hit a point of I can't getto school, I can't get out of
(04:46):
bed.
I don't want to go.
It just got worse as year sevenwent along.
We hit halfway through the yearand started to talk to the
school.
The school got involved.
There was a year coordinator andthere was one counselor, and
they did have meetings with usand we did discuss how we could
(05:07):
get her to school, how she couldfeel more comfortable in the
school environment.
We did try some of those things,it got to the point that I drove
her to the school gate and shecouldn't even get past the
school gate.
Leisa Reichelt (05:19):
what were some of the strategies that you were
trying to use at that stage?
Lisa McLean (05:22):
I think the thing is, that we have these
expectations, of our childrenthat they need to go to school.
My husband works a full-time jobin an office.
I was working part-time in anoffice then, but I do work a lot
from home, so I had a bit moreflexibility, it became a case of
trying to sort of calmly in themorning, get her going and, and
(05:46):
then drive her to school we puta lot of pressure on, you know,
this has to happen and, I don'tknow.
We're not big consequence peoplebut, it was sort of like you
know, you need to go to schooland that's that.
And the thing is we felt verystressed by it, you know, as so
many School Can't parents know.
So there was a real buildup ofstress around the whole family
(06:09):
in trying to get her to school.
Leisa Reichelt (06:11):
So if you go back to those times in your
mind, what was life like for thefamily when this was going on?
Lisa McLean (06:17):
I think, it really impacts everyone, doesn't it?
So, we were both highly stressedover it and our son probably was
ignored a bit.
Because, we were focused on ourdaughter.
And yeah, there was a lot ofstress, and I think that's
something I learned a lot aboutin this process.
Just how stress can affect youand mean clarity in thoughts and
(06:40):
looking at a bigger picturemaking some decisions was very
hard.
We just didn't know where toturn or what we should do next.
So there was a lot of lookingeverywhere for answers, and who
can help us?
What else should we try?
The school wasn't very helpfulwith that.
And so it was really a case ofactually we need to work this
(07:01):
out ourselves.
It did take a long time for usto figure out what to do.
And that was really thebeginning of her journey because
we did pull her from school, wegot through year seven.
By the end of year seven though,we did have occasions.
So by then, probably threequarters of the way through the
year, we had her kicking andscreaming on the bedroom floor,
(07:24):
and me in tears not knowing whatto do.
Often my husband was at work orI would keep him at home because
I didn't know, you know, what weshould do.
And I one day thought there'sgotta be someone who can help me
with this.
We ended up being advised tocall the Child Youth Mental
Health Services, which happenedto be just down the road from
us.
(07:44):
It was recommended that we goand talk to them.
And then when it got to suchsort of a dramatic, like, we
can't get her out the door, Ithought there's gotta be another
answer.
that was the beginning of usseeing a psychologist.
Leisa Reichelt (07:57):
and how well was she able to talk about what was
going on for her?
Lisa McLean (08:01):
Not at all.
Truthfully, we had two yearswith them, which was a long time
for that mental health service.
We were bumped up to sort of thetrauma group when other things
happen in year eight and yearnine.
But really, you know, I draggedher there too.
I was like, this has gotta behelpful.
You've gotta get there.
So even that in itself, I feelreally traumatized her a bit, me
(08:23):
trying to drag her to apsychologist.
We had family groups,one-on-one, just me and her with
the psychologist, and then alsothe psychologist and her on her
own.
She's told me recently, shesaid, I just don't think it was
helpful at all.
We did some family therapy.
Some of it was useful.
I think it was useful for me tohave someone to talk to at the
time.
(08:43):
We went down that route and shedid get through year seven.
We removed her and she did somework from home and we got
through the year and then we gotto the end of the year and we're
discussing what to do next.
Should she go to a differentschool?
this is where, you know, it gotinteresting because, with this
(09:04):
anxiety, because she wasn'thappy at school, she started to
look elsewhere for friends andalso started to disappear and
hang out with other people, notfrom the school.
She now says to me, mum, it wasjust to make me feel better.
Anything that removed her from,what she was having to deal
with.
(09:24):
So, year seven, summer schoolholidays, she ran around and
hung out with kids.
Unfortunately an incidenthappened to her during the
school holidays and she wasquite traumatized by it.
That added to the anxiety shehad.
She said, I wanna try going backto the same school, and we
(09:46):
decided to give it a go.
We didn't realize howtraumatized she was from this
incident and this incident in agang of girls, bullying, social
media.
I think she thought.
Year seven isn't easy.
It would probably get better.
My friends are still there.
Although those friends, shewasn't hanging out with a lot.
(10:10):
And I think she just wasn't evensure where else she wanted to
go.
And we did open it up to her.
We said, we are open to whateveryou want, but she just did a
refusal.
No, I'll just stick with this.
Leisa Reichelt (10:23):
Yeah, I think that narrative too, that that
idea that year seven is hard andeveryone finds it hard in year
seven and it'll be easier inyear eight.
I heard that a lot from my sonas well.
I think it's what you hear fromteaching staff quite a bit, and
I'm sure it's true for somekids.
Lisa McLean (10:38):
And us too.
You know, we thought, give thisa go.
Not understanding that shecouldn't engage with anything.
Year eight didn't last long, atthat school.
I think about three months ofwhich she hardly got there.
I was like, this has to change.
It was then that I startedlooking into alternatives and
(11:01):
thought, maybe it's actuallyhomeschooling.
I saw a bit on School Can'tobviously, so I I was like, what
is this?
And then I thought, I can't dothis.
This is another thing I thought,yes, I could be at home, but I
was like, I'm not sure that Ican actually do the whole
homeschooling thing.
What I did discover was theAustralian Christian College,
(11:22):
they had an online school, Ithink it was one of the first
ones around,'cause this was preCOVID.
We looked into that and wethought, okay, this could be an
option.
It means she can stay at homeand she's not sort of trying to
get to school.
She can still be taught it's acurriculum we need to be around,
but it's all given to her,without us having to do the
(11:42):
homeschooling ourselves.
So we signed up for them.
Leisa Reichelt (11:45):
Lisa, can I go back?
Just to where you were sayingyou were thinking about home
education, but you were sayingyou couldn't do it.
Why were you telling yourselfthat you couldn't do it?
Lisa McLean (11:54):
I just think I knew nothing about it and I felt like
there was a lot that I had toget my head around to teach her
at home.
Back now, I suppose the wholeconcept of even unschooling or
really just doing lifedifferently and not worrying
almost about lessons and things,I probably would've been quite,
that's literally what we did inthe end, there's more
(12:15):
information out there now that Iwould've understood it better.
Leisa Reichelt (12:20):
Yeah, there's a sense of kind of overwhelm isn't
there, with so much to get yourhead around.
It's, it's definitely achallenge.
I guess you've kind offoreshadowed how it went with
the virtual school.
Lisa McLean (12:30):
Yeah.
So the thing with that was,realizing that now we know.
She wasn't able to learnanything.
It didn't matter where it was,whether it was at school, at
home.
And this is something I supposeto understand around any
parents, if their child is notdiagnosed with anything in
particular or not just copingwhat's actually going on?
(12:53):
And has there been trauma or istheir nervous system like high
stress?
And of course anxiety is a formof high stress, but the brain
turns off and they can't absorbanything.
So there's no learning happeninguntil you actually heal that.
And this is what we learned overtime.
We didn't even know back then.
Leisa Reichelt (13:13):
So there's no accommodation that would've
helped you needed to get herinto a more calm, regulated
state.
Lisa McLean (13:20):
What happened with her is when we go back to what
stressed does to the body andthe fight, flight, freeze.
She went into flight.
So suddenly home, she didn'tfeel happy at home.
So she didn't feel happy atschool.
Suddenly she didn't feel happyat home.
She was at home a lot and wewere trying to get her to do
(13:41):
work at home.
So she disappeared.
So we had her go into a mode of,yeah, you know, becoming almost
a street child.
She disappeared.
And hung out with kids thatweren't necessarily kids that
helped She just wanted to escapewhat she was feeling.
(14:03):
And She's talked to me aboutthat recently.
It was a case of I'm just gonnago and hang out which included
drinking, which included smokingdope, which included getting on
a train and disappearingovernight because it was an
escapism and it was making herfeel better, not being in
reality and not having to dealwith what was going on inside
(14:24):
her.
So that's what happened for her.
Leisa Reichelt (14:29):
So when you reflect on this, do you feel
that by bringing schooling intothe home, that kind of made home
an unsafe place for her, is, isthat what happened, do you
think?
Lisa McLean (14:40):
In hindsight we are still trying to figure out,
exactly why I, think it camedown to the pressure we were
putting on her, the expectationswe had, but not understanding
fully the mental health concernsor the anxiety, how it was
(15:01):
affecting her.
So two things we learned aboutparenting.
My husband and I was one, I waslike many mothers.
I was a helper.
So I was just always trying tohelp her feel better.
And I was also doing things thatalmost just, you know, I would
run around and try and find herand go and pick her up from here
(15:21):
and there.
And I was just helping, butactually not helping her because
I wasn't understanding what wasgoing on for her.
I was just trying to fix things.
My husband and I, there was alsothat sort of discipline.
One of the parenting groups wewent to was about drawing the
line in the sand and discussingwhat we would or would not put
up with.
At the time, my husband and Iwere like, there's no line in
the sand for our daughter.
(15:43):
We can't make it anymore.
We'd gone beyond that and thatwas a really hard thing to get
our head around, like, well thenwhat do we do?
So we really had to delve intounderstanding it all better.
Leisa Reichelt (16:01):
so how did that happen?
How did you get to thatunderstanding?
I guess you're still maybe onthat journey in a way?
Lisa McLean (16:06):
Oh, what a journey, right?
Interestingly enough, part ofthis story is COVID, can you
believe we were locked down foralmost two years it wasn't good
for many people.
It actually was amazing for usand only because she couldn't
run anymore.
She had to come home and we hadto work through things together.
(16:28):
That was quite useful.
There was no school obviouslywith COVID, so that was almost
for her relief.
So it was like, actually there'sno pressure to go to school
'cause no one's going to school.
So that was amazing and that'swhere actually there was a bit
of pressure off us all, like,oh, we just have to be at home.
you know, what I discovered inthis process was a lot about
(16:52):
nervous system regulation, aboutstress on the body.
Not just for her, but for me andfor my husband, for the family.
COVID allowed us to de-stress,focus on ourselves, and heal a
bit, which then helped us healthe connection with Mia.
but it did take a while.
The school journey did continuebecause we had the lockdown for
(17:14):
a while and then it was like,okay, everyone's back to school.
And we said to Mia, so, do youwanna go back to school?
And she said, yes.
But she said, I can't go back tothe school we were at.
And I say, okay, let's find aschool.
And there came the problem thatshe did not want to go to a all
girls school.
And there was a co-ed school nottoo far away, but it wasn't in
(17:36):
our area.
With the education department,that's not possible.
So then we had the journey withthe education department,
working with them on saying, ifyou want Mia to go to school and
she does wanna go to school, weneed to find her a school.
We went to the co-ed school.
They did accept her.
It wasn't too far from our home,and we thought this was a great
(17:58):
new beginning.
She seemed keen at the time, butdidn't last long.
And again, now I know, hernervous system wasn't healed.
She still had trauma in her andunfortunately there was some
kids there who did bully her.
She even tells us now when shewent to school.
We thought she was at school.
She came home, laid in her bed.
(18:21):
She went into depressive statesand, and this is the thing in
between having her run away.
We also had her at home in bed,in a dark room, not being able
to move.
So we went between those sortsof experiences for, for probably
a year or more.
(18:42):
So that was school two or schoolthree.
We were still, like, schoolneeds to happen.
And I think particularly becausethe education department says,
well, you have to do something.
So, there was that externalpressure on us, which I know
many parents are going through.
You have to get to school.
(19:02):
So we did try third or fourthschool where she had to actually
go to school.
But that again, was talking tothe education department saying,
if you want her to go to school,you need to find a school for
us, and it has to be out of ourarea.
This was due to the bullies inour area.
So this was me willing to drivefurther to take her to school
and the school to take her on.
(19:24):
And they did,
Leisa Reichelt (19:24):
And so the education department were
reasonably cooperative with thatbecause of the bullying aspect.
Do you think?
Lisa McLean (19:30):
By then we had so many different psychologists,
hospitals, doctors, mentalhealth experts say we can't put
her back into a school in thisarea.
She has to go somewhere else.
This school had to be willing toaccept her and understand all
her history.
There was a lot of back andforth as we know for parents, it
(19:53):
was just so much, to get my headaround who we had to deal with,
what we had to provide.
I recently went through all myemails, the letters from this
person and that person to tryand get it all to happen.
She did go this other school,and that was the school that in
the end, again, she got tooanxious at school.
The anxiety, by now, if we lookback started in year one and
(20:17):
two, and although we did somethings, we didn't fully
understand the extent of it.
We realized school is not forher.
But that was a bit of a journeyfor us to realize that she just
can't get to a school full stopI think there was a very low
self-confidence in herself andwho she was and this was growing
(20:38):
up too, right?
And I think that the traumaticexperience she had just pushed
it to the next level.
And us not understanding enoughearly on didn't help the
process.
I was looking everywhere forhelp from anyone, and in the end
it actually came down to Iactually need to understand all
(21:01):
of this better and need to helpmyself and my family to be able
to help her.
We were all so highly stressedby this stage that we were just
feeding off each other and it'sjust really not healthy.
Until we actually looked at ourparenting, until we were able to
step back and say, actuallymental health is the priority,
(21:23):
for both her and for the rest ofthe family.
Then we actually managed to sortof heal ourselves without
external help.
But it was a journey and itwasn't overnight.
It was a lot of learnings and alot of changing how we lived our
life and just doing things a bitdifferently.
Leisa Reichelt (21:41):
Yeah.
That's a really interestingreflection though.
I think a lot of the time yourinstinct is that you need to
outsource this to aprofessional, right?
Someone needs to come in and dothe fixing and then we can all
get back on track again.
But I think what a lot of usexperience is that we actually
have to learn so much and wehave to change ourselves so much
(22:02):
and how we are in order tocreate a different kind of
environment for our child, andyou can't outsource that.
Lisa McLean (22:09):
Yeah.
The reality is understandingourselves better and why we
behave certain ways or why wehave certain expectations or why
we hold stress the way we do,healing ourselves then allows us
to be better parents.
We needed to look inwards andreally change things up for
(22:29):
ourselves and really, you know,learn a bit about ourselves and,
that allowed us then to be ableto support her better.
We do our best.
And, you know, I say ourdaughter is definitely my
biggest teacher in my life todate because, despite going
through all of that, which Inever wish on any child or
parent.
There's been a lot of growth andhealing and a lot of
(22:51):
understanding about ourselvesthrough the process.
So that's, that's thepost-traumatic growth from the
experience that we now have,which, you know, I feel very
grateful that we can have thatbecause she is healthy and well
and coping now, which isamazing.
Leisa Reichelt (23:09):
Well, let's pick up the story again.
We were at school number four orfive, which she got into, but
then that didn't work.
What happened next?
Lisa McLean (23:16):
So by this time she was year nine.
And that school, after workingthrough why she couldn't stay in
classrooms and learn, agreed tosign her out of school, into
TAFE, into Certificate TwoVocational Pathways.
It's a 10 week course at TAFE.
(23:38):
At the time there was only twoor three places in Sydney that
offered it.
And they took intakes twice ayear.
And they only took maybe 10 or12 children.
We went for an interview withthem.
A couple of amazing ladies ranit.
And, I was in tears at themeeting because I thought
(23:58):
finally someone understandswhat's been going on for her.
They took her in this was it wasaround just the end of COVID
period.
So she wasn't yet 16, she wasstill 15 and she went there
every day.
Not a problem for 10 weeks anddid whatever work she needed to
(24:21):
do.
She said, mom, it wasn't thatcomplicated.
It wasn't hard.
She's a fairly intelligent girl,you know, she just couldn't do
school.
So she was able to get throughthat.
Not a problem.
And she has said to me, she justfelt so happy that she never had
to go to school again.
she was still struggling formental health.
(24:42):
There was still depressiveepisodes.
We were still learning about howto help her heal, soon after she
finished that we were inlockdown again.
That TAFE was linked toBradfield College in Sydney
where you can go and do year 11,12.
I've got a friend whosedaughter's there who said it's
been amazing for her daughter.
We had thought about thosepathways, but COVID got in the
(25:04):
way.
Suddenly there was nothing goingon.
We had to wait.
In that process of waiting, shewent and got a job.
It was amazing.
We actually, it was aninteresting journey because she
still was struggling, a lot.
She didn't really want to livewith us and we were working
(25:25):
through that.
And she had an opportunity tolive, near her grandparents, in
an apartment.
So we said to her, why don't wetrial?
Living on your own, getting ajob and supporting yourself
because if you can't supportyourself, then you need to come
(25:46):
back home.
Now, this is not ideal, youknow, it was a huge thing for us
to even agree to that at such ayoung age.
It's not what we thought herlife would look like.
But it was an acceptance of thisis her journey, her mental
health is priority.
Let's just with it and see, seewhat happens.
Who was her boss, who becamelike a mentor for her.
(26:08):
She made her money, shesupported herself.
She started going to the gym andthis was a huge turnaround I
think, for her.
I suppose that's connectingtrauma and stress in the body.
If teens can't talk, then it'salso understanding that there's
things they can do, with a bodythat can release trauma, and
(26:31):
that can be movement, that canbe meditation, mindfulness, it
can be breath work, it can besomatic work.
There's a lot of stuff they cando.
They have to be willing to doit.
And that's the toughest thing aswe know teenagers.
But she decided she wanted to goto the gym and almost came quite
obsessed with the gym, but itactually was so helpful for her
mental health.
(26:52):
So she lives on her own,supports herself doing amazing.
And she's 19 now, and she's juststarted a course at TAFE To be a
social worker.
Which we just think is amazingbecause for her now, she's sort
of healing and working.
She's been seeing a holisticcounselor.
She understands now aboutjournaling and meditation and
(27:14):
all those things that can help.
She now wants to do social workso she can help other young
people who went through what shedid.
Its early days.
And truthfully, because shedidn't have much schooling at
all.
It's not been easy.
It's all online.
But just trying to get her headaround some of those things that
we learn at school around,writing essays She used to be a
(27:36):
great writer when she wasyounger, and so it is just
taking time.
But she's excited to be learningagain.
It's a real example that we justhave to lean into what's gonna
work for our child and thatthere is so many pathways, you
know, school, going to schoolisn't the end all, and they'll
be ready to learn when they'reready, if they want to.
(27:57):
And we know that, you can go outinto the world do, things that
you're passionate about and besuccessful in whatever you want.
And you don't actually have toto school.
So.
Leisa Reichelt (28:06):
All of that lived experience that she has
can hopefully be transformedinto something that's really
valuable for so many otherpeople as well.
Lisa McLean (28:13):
I hope so.
And again, it's still a journey,right?
Both our children are grown up,but we are still, you know, I
want to share my story
Leisa Reichelt (28:19):
Yeah.
Lisa McLean (28:20):
other parents understand that they're not
alone and that a child's SchoolCan't journey can be very
different for every child.
They can get through there.
And remember always thinking, Ijust can't see the light at the
end of the tunnel.
Like I just don't know wherethis is heading.
And particularly when she was onthe streets when she was
struggling so much when we endedup in hospitals I was like,
(28:42):
what?
I was worrying so much about thefuture.
And again, that bring comingback to the present and going,
actually we just need to focuson the present and what's going
on for her mental health andhealing that.
And with that, then the pathwill unfold.
Leisa Reichelt (28:56):
that's a very good transition, to our closing
questions.
So Lisa, if you could go back intime and tell yourself
something, what do you thinkyou'd say?
Lisa McLean (29:08):
What would it be?
So many lessons.
I wish I knew more about howstress and anxiety affects the
body.
What would I say back then is, Isuppose, you know, it will be
okay.
It's like, you're so caught upin helping and fixing.
Actually, it's really importantto step back and just be with
(29:33):
whatever's going on.
A concept that I learned from afriend that I then really delved
into was holding the space forher.
And for us to say, we need tostop the pressure, stop the
expectations, stop the judgment.
She needs to feel safety in thebody.
And that it's okay that schoolwasn't her path.
(29:55):
And not worry about thejudgements and the expectations
of everyone else.
Yeah, there's a lot really isn'tthere?
Leisa Reichelt (30:05):
That's lovely.
Lisa McLean (30:06):
So,
Leisa Reichelt (30:07):
Is there anything that you haven't said
that you would really likepeople to know?
People who are on their ownSchool Can't journey right now.
What would you really like themto know?
Lisa McLean (30:15):
I have said this a few times.
I think really that in the end,our mental health is priority
that just focus on, on mentalhealth
Leisa Reichelt (30:26):
and then finally, of all of the different
resources that you have accessthroughout
Lisa McLean (30:32):
Mm
Leisa Reichelt (30:32):
pathway in supporting your daughter and
understanding what she's goingthrough, is there something that
stands out that you would wannarecommend to people to use as a
resource to learn from?
Lisa McLean (30:42):
Yeah.
I suppose one thing I did wannashare was particularly when it
comes to teenagers, disengaged,fighting, battling, withdrawing.
Something is going on and it'sreally understanding to not take
on what's maybe coming back atyou in regards to behavior and
(31:03):
get to the bottom of what'sgoing on.
Understanding trauma stress andnervous system regulation is
super important.
I got hold of the book, the BodyKeeps the Score early on, by
Bessel Van Der Kolk, and thatwas an eye-opener.
That was like, wow, okay.
(31:24):
I can see in my daughter what hewas talking about.
And Gabor Mate quite well knownin the health of wellness
industry and now, you know, canfind him everywhere online, what
he talks about.
I really do believe that, youknow, mind body connection,
what's going on in the body.
So understanding, how traumaaffects the body, and what's
(31:49):
maybe going on around anxietyfor your child and there's
different types of anxiety theycould be experiencing.
I think you need to work outwhat tools and techniques, and
my daughter said they didn'tteach me how to help myself.
If we as parents understand andhelp ourselves when we're
stressed and overwhelmed'causeof what we are going through,
(32:10):
those things that we learn to,to calm our system, calm our
body, we need to teach ourchildren.
And I think that's reallyimportant.
Then just thinking apsychologist, in particular is
gonna help.
Our daughter eventually had asocial worker.
And that was actually in the endquite helpful.
It was when she was sort ofcoming out closer to 16, but a
(32:33):
social worker who actually tookher out for a walk, had coffee
with her because sitting in aroom, and talking wasn't
working.
So, it is just looking for thosedifferent, therapists that can
support you, but also learning,the tools and techniques
yourself
Leisa Reichelt (32:50):
Excellent.
Wonderful advice.
Lisa, thank you so much forsharing your journey, your
story, all the things you'velearned so that others of us can
benefit from it.
I really appreciate it.
Lisa McLean (33:04):
it's been lovely talking to you and I really do
hope it's other school campcommunity and the wider
community
Leisa Reichelt (33:11):
whenever I have the privilege of hearing another
family's School Can'texperience, I'm always struck by
the way there are many familiarthemes, but every story is so
unique and we all have to findour own way through it.
Hopefully there's something inLisa's story that's helpful for
you right now.
I put the links to the BodyKeeps the Score book that Lisa
recommended, as well as someresources that she's very kindly
(33:33):
shared on her own website thatshe hopes will be helpful for
parents experiencing SchoolCan't.
I've also put links to theSchool Can't Australia website
and information about the parentsupport peer group there as
well.
If you have found this podcasthelpful, please do take a moment
to share, to subscribe, maybeeven give us a rating or review.
(33:53):
It really does make a hugedifference in helping us get the
podcast in the hands of peoplewho are experiencing School
Can't and haven't found thecommunity and all the
information we share just yet.
If you have some feedback for usor perhaps you'd like to share
your own School Can't livedexperience, which we would love,
please drop us an email toschoolcantpodcast@gmail.com.
(34:16):
If you are a parent or carer inAustralia and you are feeling
distressed, please remember youcan always call the Parent
Helpline in your state.
A link with the number to callis in the episode notes.
Thank you again for listening,and we will talk again soon.
Take care.
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