July 14, 2025 • 28 mins
In this episode, host Leisa Reichelt compiles into stories shared by six parents—Jennie, Marissa, Mark, Jane, Emma, and Lisa—who talk about their struggles and revelations while caring for children who struggle with school attendance.
From early signs of stress and school-related anxiety to burnout, the episode highlights common themes like masking, parent blaming, and the importance of understanding nervous system responses.
As parents shift their focus from compliance-based pressures to well-being, they share transformative journeys that led to better outcomes for their children and themselves. Tune in for heartfelt stories that underline the challenges and breakthroughs experienced by families navigating the School Can't journey.
00:48 School-Related Anxiety Starts Early and Is Often Missed
06:33 Masking at school, meltdowns at home
08:43 Burnout and Shutdown: When School Becomes Impossible
12:35 School Pressure and Systemic Pushback
18:07 Relief and Recovery Through Removing Pressure
22:35 Finding New Pathways and Rebuilding Autonomy
24:32 Whole Family Healing and Self-Discovery
27:12 More Information and Resources
Lived Experience Episodes:
Lisa McLean - https://www.buzzsprout.com/2447546/episodes/17421617
Mark Thompson - https://www.buzzsprout.com/2447546/episodes/17343389
Marissa Taylor - https://www.buzzsprout.com/2447546/episodes/17012454
Jennie Plummer - https://www.buzzsprout.com/2447546/episodes/16923948
Emma Gilmour - https://www.buzzsprout.com/2447546/episodes/16887755
Jane Nicholson - https://www.buzzsprout.com/2447546/episodes/16803563
- School Can’t Australia Facebook Community - https://www.facebook.com/groups/schoolphobiaschoolrefusalaustralia
- Make a donation to School Can’t Australia - https://www.schoolcantaustralia.com.au/get-involved
If you are a parent of carer in Australia and experiencing distress, please call Lifeline on 13 11 14 or contact the Parent Help Line. - https://kidshelpline.com.au/parents/issues/how-parentline-can-help-you
You can contact us to volunteer to share your School Can't story or some feedback via email on schoolcantpodcast@gmail.com
Disclaimer
The content of this podcast is based on personal lived experiences and is shared for informational and storytelling purposes only. It should not be treated as medical, psychological, or professional advice under any circumstances. If you have concerns about your health or well-being, please seek guidance from a doctor, therapist, or other qualified professional.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:05):
Hello and welcome to the SchoolCan't Experience Podcast.
I'm Leisa Reichelt, and thispodcast is brought to you by the
School Can't Australiacommunity.
Caring for a young person who isstruggling to attend school can
be a stressful and isolatingexperience, but you are not
alone.
Thousands of parents acrossAustralia and many more around
the world face similarchallenges and experiences every
(00:26):
day.
Today we are doing something alittle different.
This episode is going to bringtogether insights from six
parents, Jennie, Marissa, Mark,Jane, Emma, and Lisa, all of
whom have shared their SchoolCan't lived experiences on our
podcast.
We are going to go through andhighlight some of the common
themes from these stories, whichare moments of fear,
frustration, love, insight, andeventually healing.
(00:48):
So our first theme is somethingwe've heard over and over.
School-based stress startsearly, even if for some families
it wasn't obvious in thoseyounger years.
In retrospect, those tummyaches, difficulty separating,
unusual friendship patterns aresigns of stress that the child
can't articulate.
They are important, but they canbe easy to miss.
(01:09):
Let's start by hearing fromLisa.
Lisa McLean (01:12):
This is something I love to share with other parents
just because, you know, if onlywe knew I think it was year one
or two, she had a lot of tummypain.
We went down the path ofconstipation, food.
I've always been sort of aholistic health type person, so
I've always seen naturopaths anddelved into things relating to
(01:34):
health.
But we didn't know aboutanxiety.
I didn't understand how anxietycan affect the body,
particularly the gut and the gutbrain connection.
I soon learned, but back then,she just found school hard.
She found friendships hard.
She did okay and got to schoolmost of the time and she did
(01:57):
have friends, but we could seethat she struggled a bit with
keeping friendships.
She was a pretty happy child.
And I suppose our first thingaround the gut was food.
So we removed sugars andpreservatives and we went down
all that route, which we knowcan also help the brain, but it
wasn't actually addressing whatI believe now was anxiety around
school friendships.
(02:19):
She's quite a sensitive, I'd sayshe's really an empath, so she
really was not coping, I thinkwith school environment, the
sounds, the expectations, all ofthose things in primary school.
Leisa Reichelt (02:31):
This is Jennie talking about her daughter.
Jennie Plummer (02:34):
Primary school she seemed to sail through.
She was a high achieveracademically and in sport.
She did a lot of representativesport for the school.
She joined in all activities.
She was on the debating team,the school student
representative council.
She did public speaking, which Icouldn't imagine her doing that
(02:55):
now.
She got a major trophy everysingle year in primary school at
presentation day at the end ofthe year, like academic awards.
Leisa Reichelt (03:06):
She didn't just cope, she smashed it.
Jennie Plummer (03:07):
Yeah, she did.
So this came as an awful shockwhen we went to high school.
But looking back, she did havesocial issues starting in year
five.
She kept swapping friends groupsand they'd have fights.
She couldn't understand what shewas doing wrong.
She said, I'm trying to be agood friend, but I don't know
what I'm doing wrong.
(03:28):
And she seemed to have a lot offriends, but no true, close,
meaningful friends.
She flitted around from group togroup and in the end she made
friends with children thatdidn't even attend that school,
just children she met on the busfrom other schools.
Even then she swapped thosefriends around.
(03:49):
So I thought she had heaps offriends, but she didn't really
have any.
Leisa Reichelt (03:52):
And now let's hear from Emma
Emma (03:54):
Primary school for them was pretty good.
They had, they seemed to havefriends.
Ushi changed friends she changedfriends regularly, so she'd be,
they'd tell me that she was apopular kid.
So again, this is part of thishigh masking, like appearing to
be like everybody else.
Conforming.
And very high perfectionismtendencies and very good at like
(04:16):
reading what other kids aredoing and what they look like
and how to be like them.
But she used to swap friends.
She had one really good friendall the way from Kinder that
they were like best friendsuntil quite recently.
But other than that, she'd justchanged friends with her years.
And then COVID happened and thatfor us was the sort of beginning
of the end
Leisa Reichelt (04:38):
Now, Mark's daughter was able to share much
more about her experience whenshe was quite young.
Let's hear from Mark.
Mark Thompson (04:45):
So when she used to go to daycare, she absolutely
loved it because it wasfreeform, she could do what she
liked.
She is a really curious kid andjust liked to do her own thing
in her own time, her own spaceand was wonderful.
So you'd sometimes go to pickher up and she'd be there going,
I don't want to leave I justwanna stay and have more fun.
(05:05):
And then, when we got topreschool, there was a few more
rules.
And she came back to us andsaid, i'm not quite sure I feel
comfortable here because theytell me what to do all the time,
and I don't like that.
And so as a first time parent,you kind of go away, you think
about that and you kind of go,well, your kids are going to
show some resistance to certainthings when they're being asked
(05:28):
to do things they don't want todo.
You try and navigate that asbest you can and you have a chat
with the preschool and theteachers and the people who have
seen it before.
And then when we got to school,that really kind of ramped up.
Everything became difficult.
Demands were hard for her, themore she struggled emotionally
(05:49):
that led to really big sensoryissues So even getting dressed
in the mornings becameincredibly difficult.
Mornings, really could takehours and hours doing stuff like
ironing the soles of shoes andmaking sure there was not a
single crease.
It just became very, verydifficult to the point where,
school attendance ground to acomplete halt.
Internally you're kind of going,there's something not quite
(06:10):
right here you've got all theexpectations.
Your children have to go toschool, they have to get an
education, they have to learn,which is all correct, but, it
didn't fit for us and it didn'tfit for her..
Leisa Reichelt (06:20):
And so that was in kindy that it all just kind
of fell apart completely.
Mark Thompson (06:24):
Yeah.
I mean, kindy wasn't too bad inthat, but I'm thinking back now
and she's ten, and even goingback I don't think she ever did
a, a complete week.
Leisa Reichelt (06:33):
Many of the parents who shared their School
Can't experience, sharedversions of a similar story,
which was their child lookedfine when they were at school.
They were compliant, maybe evenexcelling, but at home things
were different.
They would collapse.
There would be regular meltdownsor shutdowns.
These were kids who were maskingto try to make it work at
school, and then they broke downin the safety of their own home.
(06:55):
This is just one of the manyreasons our kids can be so
misunderstood.
Let's hear from Marissa.
Marissa Taylor (07:01):
So when I would first say to the school, you
know, this is how my child is,and they're like, it's normal.
Every child goes through that itwill settle down.
They even said, you know, you'llstart to see some behavioral
changes at home.
Well, they get very testy, veryangry.
And that's really becausethey're getting exhausted
through the day.
They just need time to settledown, and everything will be
(07:22):
okay.
That never happened.
I had constant behavioralproblems at home.
They were perfect out in thecommunity.
They were perfect at school.
So it made it really hard.
If I went to the doctors orprofessionals to say, Hey, look,
we are having behavioralproblems at home, it was really
always dismissed and just putdown to me.
And I was always given thatadvice of, you've just gotta be
(07:43):
a firmer parent.
Leisa Reichelt (07:45):
And now let's hear from Emma
Emma (07:47):
So my youngest child is now being diagnosed with PDA
autistic.
She also has chronic fatigue.
For her, everything is a safetything.
She goes through her world onhigh alert She was a hugely high
masker.
Everyone's like, oh, they'reperfect.
What are you talking about?
And they'd moan about my otherkid and I'd be like, what do you
(08:08):
mean?
He's fantastic at home becausehe's more of a fawner, more
compliant, whereas, my youngerone at home, she'd come home and
the wheels would fall off.
Leisa Reichelt (08:17):
Now let's hear from Jane, who also had some
pretty significant challenges athome.
Jane (08:22):
Our middle child, he had major School Can't would rip all
his clothes off, hide under thebed.
So we physically couldn't takehim to school.
He's autistic and would have 45minute meltdowns every single
day.
And they were horrific likewe're talking...
breaking things, trashing rooms.
We went through, I think aboutsix televisions.
(08:42):
yeah, it was a lot
Leisa Reichelt (08:43):
As time goes on, we can reach a point where
school becomes impossible andour kids fall into burnout.
These are kids who can't leavetheir bedrooms.
They're literally in the darkwith lights out and curtains
drawn.
Some for months, some for evenlonger.
Let's hear from Jennie.
Jennie Plummer (08:58):
And then eventually she wouldn't leave
her bedroom and she wouldn'thave the blinds open.
She had to stay in the dark.
She'd only leave to go to thetoilet.
She wouldn't shower, shewouldn't clean her teeth and
would only eat in her bedroom.
And then her sleep patternsreversed.
She was awake all night andasleep all day.
Leisa Reichelt (09:20):
Here's Lisa sharing their experience of
burnout
Lisa McLean (09:23):
She still had trauma in her and unfortunately
there was some kids there whodid bully her.
She even tells us now when shewent to school.
We thought she was at school.
She came home, laid in her bed.
She went into depressive statesand, and this is the thing in
between having her run away.
(09:43):
We also had her at home in bed,in a dark room, not being able
to move.
So we went between those sortsof experiences for, for probably
a year or more.
Leisa Reichelt (09:54):
And now let's hear from Emma and hear about
their experience.
Emma (09:58):
22, July 22, which kind of around when we went into
burnout.
We played in and out of burnoutfor a bit, what would happen is
you'd come into the bedroom andyou'd say something to her and
she'd goes, stop shouting at me.
And you could see like all hersenses were completely,
everything was unsafe.
Including us.
The world was unsafe for her.
(10:20):
She really started todeteriorate to the point where
she became bedbound.
So everyone's like, oh, she'sdepressed.
And they were trying to youknow, tell us oh, you need to
get her out and you need to gether to do more.
Um, and you believe people'causeyou think, well these are the
professionals.
They know what they're doing.
I mean, this is people in placesthat call themselves neuro
affirming, diagnosing PDA kids.
(10:41):
we now know is autistic burnout,chronic fatigue, and saying that
they need to push through, domore, get out and get some
exercise and some fresh air.
We went to high school like Ushiwas really full of hope.
Like, I'm going to go to highschool, it's going to be a
different environment, it'sgoing to be great.
And so we get there and we getall the uniform, we're all ready
to go.
She gets there and the firstweek's, okay.
And then as it deteriorates,deteriorates, deteriorates
Leisa Reichelt (11:02):
Yeah.
Emma (11:02):
going and she's back in bed.
And then we are seeing people atthe Royal Children's.
We're seeing OTs, we're seeingall sorts of people.
And we get referred to thisplace has been very helpful for
a lot of autistic kids, ingetting them back to school.
But my understanding is thatit's a university funded project
and it's a research project.
And the research project, theparadigm that it's trying to
(11:24):
prove is that, if you do certainthings, attendance will
increase.
And the problem that we havewhen we have a PDA autistic kid
who is in burnout, Is that yes,anxiety's involved in it, but
physically, someday she couldn'tlift her head off the pillow
because she'd go one day andthen have to recover.
(11:45):
She really wanted to do well.
But it actually set us backbecause what happened towards
the end as, as it was a six weekprogram.
I was 13 week program, I can'tremember, but we couldn't make
it through.
And each week we got less andthere was this, we'd get calls,
you know, if you don't completethe program, it's not going to
work.
You know, if you don't attend,it's not going to work.
(12:05):
Making us the problem, if it wasa trying issue.
I'm like, this is where we are.
She's not sat at home likedancing around she's bedridden.
And they just couldn't.
And I was giving them all thesebooks by Eliza Fricker and they
were lapping them up.
They were like, this is sointeresting.
And I'm thinking, am I the firstperson to be here with this?
Maybe I was, I don't know.
But, it seems strange.
(12:27):
The people were good, but theywere working on the wrong
paradigm.
The paradigm that they'reworking under is different to
the paradigm that our childrenare living.
Leisa Reichelt (12:35):
And how are our schools responding?
Well, it varies, but more oftenthan not, parents told us that
instead of support, they weremet with pressure, compliance
based strategies, legal letters,attendance targets.
Here's Marissa.
Marissa Taylor (12:47):
So we really didn't even get much of a chance
to put support in place.
It was literally, you have toget your child to school by law.
We have a wellness room here.
Just drag them to school.
Just get them to school.
And we started doing that and itwas getting really traumatic for
(13:08):
everybody.
And then the threats startedlike, if you don't do this, you
are going to end up with a fineand a court order.
My husband and I were going,like why, why we were being
treated like we are criminals?
Leisa Reichelt (13:19):
Now let's hear from Jane,
Jane (13:20):
Yeah, so it was really, really hard.
The advice from school was justbe consistent.
Just keep coming, keep going.
And the, specialists were like,yep, school's the best place.
We've gotta work on theaccommodations.
Make it work.
It was just getting worse.
And he was an absconder.
So he actually made it off theschool premises a couple of
times and was nearly hit by acar one time.
(13:42):
So it was pretty intense.
Leisa Reichelt (13:45):
Here's Lisa sharing their experience
Lisa McLean (13:47):
and I think particularly because the
education department says, well,you have to do something.
So, there was that externalpressure on us, which I know
many parents are going through.
You have to get to school.
So we did try third or fourthschool where she had to actually
go to school.
But that again, was talking tothe education department saying,
(14:08):
if you want her to go to school,you need to find a school for
us, and it has to be out of ourarea.
Leisa Reichelt (14:12):
Let's hear from Jennie.
Jennie Plummer (14:14):
you know what I was more worried about?
The Department of Educationbeing on my back'cause my
brother has a child thatstruggled with School Can't
since kindergarten.
She was two years younger thanmy daughter and they were sent
to court and I was waiting forthat.
I of course was worried about mydaughter but that added
(14:35):
pressure.
It's like you have to get toschool'cause I can't afford for
this to happen, but it's reallysad'cause that took time from me
for my daughter with me worryingabout keeping the school and
Department of Education happy,which shouldn't have been.
But in the end, my GP got amedical certificate and that
(14:58):
covered her.
And it was actually throughlistening to the people from
School Can't that I startedtaking a step back and taking a
completely different approach.
Leisa Reichelt (15:08):
As we listen to these School Can't lived
experiences, it's almostimpossible to overstate the toll
that this takes on entirefamilies.
Many of the parents that you'rehearing from have been advised
that they were the problem,their parenting was the problem.
They've blamed themselves andthey felt guilt.
They've second guessedeverything.
They felt isolated, stressed,and exhausted.
(15:28):
Let's hear from Jennie.
Jennie Plummer (15:30):
And I was getting frustrated thinking, why
can't you do this?
But now I know she really wasstruggling and she actually came
up to me and said, I think I'vegot ADHD like my brothers and
'cause I didn't know the femalepresentation was going, no, you
don't.
Like, I, I wrongly thought thatshe was becoming lazy, I think,
(15:55):
and she just didn't want to bein the high class and do the
work involved.
But now I know it was theopposite to that.
She was trying.
Trying and struggling.
Leisa Reichelt (16:07):
Let's hear from Mark.
Mark Thompson (16:08):
And so trying to balance what I think and what I
feel versus what I'm being totold I have to do.
Trying to manage it all was justso difficult.
I think for me, you feel a levelof shame of not being able to,
to, to manage everyone'swellness and support everyone in
the way you want to.
(16:29):
You have, how do I emotionallysupport, how do I intellectually
support, how do I financiallysupport, you still wanna try and
find, you still wanna try andfind joy in life as well.
You don't want life to becomethis rollercoaster of just
trying to manage things none ofthat seemed to be working.
There was anything that ahundred percent.
So yeah, just that internalgoing, what can I do differently
(16:49):
or what can I do more?
The answer was always workharder, you know, so, yeah.
Leisa Reichelt (16:54):
And now let's hear from Emma
Emma (16:56):
We got referred there and there was just some really
unhelpful things happened.
There's a lot of parent blamingand there was a lot of not
believing our experience andeven our pediatrician who we
ended up getting referred to,who was absolutely brilliant,
very old school, and thank Godwe had her because she at least
got us diagnosed with ADHD andreferred us to get diagnosed
with autism.
(17:17):
But at the time, it was eitherthat we weren't doing something
right at home, or that she wasbeing naughty.
Well, we did all the rewardcharts and all that nonsense.
And none of it worked.
And what we were doing wasdamaging our relationship with
our kids.
We are feeling awful aboutourselves.
So it's like, no, we're notdoing this anymore.
So again, you have to do thesethings that people tell you to
do and you're trying and you'retrying and, and even like far
(17:39):
down the line as we are now, youstill get that little am I
really doing this right or amI...
Leisa Reichelt (17:45):
Here's Marissa.
Marissa Taylor (17:46):
And I was always given that advice of, you've
just gotta be a firmer parent.
You've just gotta lay down thelaw.
All that kind of reallyunhelpful advice, which you
don't know is unhelpful at thetime you just think, oh, okay,
maybe I'm just too soft.
Or you really start to believethat it is a you problem.
It is not a bigger, widerproblem.
Leisa Reichelt (18:07):
But there's a turning point in these stories,
and it usually comes when thepressure to attend schools
stops.
This is when parents arelearning about the role of the
nervous system.
When parents truly believe thatkids will do well, if they can.
This is when we can begin to letgo of expectations and start to
focus on our child's wellbeing.
Then recovery can begin.
(18:27):
Slowly but surely.
Let's hear from Marissa.
Marissa Taylor (18:30):
And then I was trying to get ready for work
'cause I'm the day worker andyou know, and I, and of a sudden
there was just me and my childon the floor, crying.
I just got to a point and I saidto myself, I can't do this like
this.
This is not healthy.
You cannot tell me that this isa healthy way to live.
(18:51):
I just stopped and I just, Iapologized to my child, gave
them a hug, put them back intobed.
And I said, I am so sorry.
You stay there, I'll work itout.
Leisa Reichelt (19:02):
Now let's hear from Jane,
Jane (19:04):
He did have a trauma response to school, so he did
have PTSD from, that's howassaulted his senses were I
quickly found out that weweren't going to be able to do
anything that looked likeschool.
And from the kind ofconversations and researching I
did, I found out aboutdeschooling, which is the
process of doing nothing ininverted commas.
(19:26):
It's kind of like a holiday.
Don't think about school, justheal from that experience and
the trauma and the stress ofdealing with the school system,
Letting your nervous systemreset.
Cheese went from, having 45minute meltdowns a day to none,
like zero.
I can't tell you the last timehe had one.
So that in itself, I thinkspeaks volumes.
(19:48):
We have a therapy swing in ourlounge room and he would spend
hours in that every day.
It gave him like a big hug, justthe nice pressure.
And he was happy doing that.
We read books, played games.
I got into video games with him.
Just whatever he wanted to doand enjoyed doing, I went with,
through that process, you get toforget everything you know about
(20:12):
school.
Just throw it out the window,and look at your child afresh.
What are their interests?
How do they learn?
What do they engage with?
Are they more engaged in themorning than the afternoon?
Is it inside?
Is it outside?
Is it going out in nature?
So now we have a very Unschooledapproach, which is.
We go with his interests whenhe's interested.
(20:34):
The more effort I put into alesson or a project, more likely
he is to go, nup, not for me.
We take a strength-basedapproach.
So we look at what he lovesdoing and work on that.
So he is a history boffin.
So we have got senior highschool teacher who comes in and
(20:54):
does tutoring, not with the goalof HSC or anything like that,
but just someone that can engagewith him on his level.
So he's in the equivalent ofYear Six now this woman is a
senior, 11/12, getting kidsready for the HSC and he's
teaching her things.
The knowledge, and just the joyof him engaging what he loves.
(21:16):
He's just, he's on cloud ninefor the rest of the day because
he's had all this time to speakfor someone, engage with someone
on a special interest level,which is fantastic for him.
Yeah.
Leisa Reichelt (21:25):
Let's hear from Emma.
Emma (21:26):
What I learned from listening to people like Viv
Dawes and Eliza Fricker, wasthat look, follow their passion,
low demand, and follow thepassion and let the passion
lead.
And what Viv talks about a lotin her work and her, her books
have been really helpful to me,was this idea of, you know,
letting that passion lead andit's been absolutely the right
(21:47):
strategy, and even when Iconvince myself sometimes that
it's not.
You know, she is managing to doso much.
Leisa Reichelt (21:54):
Let's hear from Jennie.
Jennie Plummer (21:55):
The big thing was repeatedly to get her
assessed and diagnosed, andthey're saying she sounds like
she does have either ADHD orAutism or both.
And to help support hermentally, and to take all
pressure off, allow her timeaway from school.
(22:16):
Not to listen to family and notto be pressured by the school or
society's expectationsbasically.
And I'm so glad I listened toall those wonderful people with
lived experience because here weare today doing quite well now.
Leisa Reichelt (22:35):
Once the nervous system settles, something
incredible can happen.
These young people can begin toreengage with life in their own
way, on their own timeline,whether that's through home
education, through theirhobbies, through part-time work,
or maybe TAFE with their familysupport, they can find paths
that will work for them.
Here's Lisa.
Lisa McLean (22:54):
So she lives on her own, supports herself doing
amazing.
And she's 19 now, and she's juststarted a course at TAFE To be a
social worker.
Which we just think is amazingbecause for her now, she's sort
of healing and working.
She's been seeing a holisticcounselor.
She understands now aboutjournaling and meditation and
(23:17):
all those things that can help.
She now wants to do social workso she can help other young
people who went through what shedid.
Its early days.
Leisa Reichelt (23:26):
And now let's hear from Emma
Emma (23:29):
This year she started ice skating, and she started
studying Russian because sheloves ice skating.
So she's going to VictorianLanguages School on Saturday
morning to study Russian fromnine til 12.20, which to me is
an incredibly long time, but shecomes out of it absolutely
buzzing'cause relational safety.
The teachers are really nice.
(23:50):
She's passionate about thesubject.That relational safety
gives her energy,
Leisa Reichelt (23:54):
Let's hear from Mark.
Mark Thompson (23:56):
And we, we, we put some computer skills on
that.
So we put everything into aspreadsheet around one of her
hobbies.
She actually came up to me thenext day and said to me, can we
do some more work on thatproject today?
And that's never happenedbefore.
And it was, it was really,really, fascinating and
phenomenal for, us.
But it was great that, she feltin control that she was taken on
(24:17):
the lesson, like, when she madea mistake with spelling or
grammar or whatever.
She'd go, oh yeah, okay.
I need to, I need to rememberthat.
And so became a little bit of afun game to make a mistake, just
the two of us sat there andthat's the first ever time she's
asked to do more work, which wasjust phenomenal.
Leisa Reichelt (24:32):
This School Can't experience very often
changes the entire family.
Many of the parents you'rehearing from have discovered
their own neurodivergence alongthe way.
They've learned a lot aboutthemselves.
They've changed how they live,how they work, how they parent,
and certainly how they thinkabout education.
Let's hear from Marissa.
Marissa Taylor (24:51):
I bit the bullet and I started her In Tune With
PDA program.
I think I only got to thatmodule four, and I was like, I
paused and I was, I, I sat thereand went, this is me.
I'm actually learning aboutmyself.
Yes, it's my kids too,obviously, but the first thing
that just came to me was I'mlearning about myself here.
(25:13):
And so then I went running to mypsychologist and I was like, I
think it's me too.
And surprisingly at the sametime, the psychologist I was
seeing at the time, she had justdone her training in autism
assessments and she said to me,you know what?
I can see it now.
And we put the two and twotogether and then I went through
the process of formal diagnosiswith another psychologist.
Leisa Reichelt (25:35):
Here's Lisa.
Lisa McLean (25:37):
The reality is understanding ourselves better
and why we behave certain waysor why we have certain
expectations or why we holdstress the way we do, healing
ourselves then allows us to bebetter parents.
We needed to look inwards andreally change things up for
ourselves and really, you know,learn a bit about ourselves and,
(26:00):
that allowed us then to be ableto support her better.
We do our best.
And, you know, I say ourdaughter is definitely my
biggest teacher in my life todate because, despite going
through all of that, which Inever wish on any child or
parent.
There's been a lot of growth andhealing and a lot of
understanding about ourselvesthrough the process.
(26:22):
So that's, that's thepost-traumatic growth from the
experience that we now have,which, you know, I feel very
grateful that we can have thatbecause she is healthy and well
and coping now, which isamazing.
Leisa Reichelt (26:37):
Let's hear from Mark.
Mark Thompson (26:38):
One of the things I've said quite frequently is in
this whole journey, you have totrust your gut.
And think I've learned more thananything, I have to trust her
gut because she's taught us somuch about different ways of
thinking, different ways being,and so if she tells us now
something's too much.
We know she's right, she's beenright since she was knee high.
(27:01):
And so therefore, just listeningto her and accepting her, she's
got a really good handle of howshe's feeling and what's
happening for her, both in hermind and body.
So just listening to that isreally important.
Leisa Reichelt (27:12):
Well, huge thanks to Jennie, Marissa, Mark,
Jane, Emma, and Lisa who allshared their School Can't lived
experience with us on ourpodcast.
I have put links to their fullepisodes in the episode notes if
you would like to hear more fromthem.
And if you are inspired to shareyour School Can't lived
experience, we would love tohear from you.
It's an easy process and anyonecan do it.
(27:33):
Just drop me an email toschoolcantpodcast@gmail.com.
If you have found this podcasthelpful, please take a moment to
share, subscribe, maybe evengive us a rating or a review.
It really does help get thispodcast in front of even more
people who have School Can'tkids, and haven't found our
community and the information wecan share.
If you are a parent or carer inAustralia and you are feeling
(27:55):
distressed, remember you canalways call the parent helpline
in your state.
A link with the number to callis in the episode notes.
Thank you again so much forlistening, and we will talk
again soon.
Take care.
Hello and welcome to the SchoolCan't Experience Podcast.
I'm Leisa Reichelt, and thispodcast is brought to you by the
School Can't Australiacommunity.
Caring for a young person who isstruggling to attend school can
be a stressful and isolatingexperience, but you are not
alone.
Thousands of parents acrossAustralia and many more around
the world face similarchallenges and experiences every
(00:26):
day.
Today we are doing something alittle different.
This episode is going to bringtogether insights from six
parents, Jennie, Marissa, Mark,Jane, Emma, and Lisa, all of
whom have shared their SchoolCan't lived experiences on our
podcast.
We are going to go through andhighlight some of the common
themes from these stories, whichare moments of fear,
frustration, love, insight, andeventually healing.
(00:48):
So our first theme is somethingwe've heard over and over.
School-based stress startsearly, even if for some families
it wasn't obvious in thoseyounger years.
In retrospect, those tummyaches, difficulty separating,
unusual friendship patterns aresigns of stress that the child
can't articulate.
They are important, but they canbe easy to miss.
(01:09):
Let's start by hearing fromLisa.
Lisa McLean (01:12):
This is something I love to share with other parents
just because, you know, if onlywe knew I think it was year one
or two, she had a lot of tummypain.
We went down the path ofconstipation, food.
I've always been sort of aholistic health type person, so
I've always seen naturopaths anddelved into things relating to
(01:34):
health.
But we didn't know aboutanxiety.
I didn't understand how anxietycan affect the body,
particularly the gut and the gutbrain connection.
I soon learned, but back then,she just found school hard.
She found friendships hard.
She did okay and got to schoolmost of the time and she did
(01:57):
have friends, but we could seethat she struggled a bit with
keeping friendships.
She was a pretty happy child.
And I suppose our first thingaround the gut was food.
So we removed sugars andpreservatives and we went down
all that route, which we knowcan also help the brain, but it
wasn't actually addressing whatI believe now was anxiety around
school friendships.
(02:19):
She's quite a sensitive, I'd sayshe's really an empath, so she
really was not coping, I thinkwith school environment, the
sounds, the expectations, all ofthose things in primary school.
Leisa Reichelt (02:31):
This is Jennie talking about her daughter.
Jennie Plummer (02:34):
Primary school she seemed to sail through.
She was a high achieveracademically and in sport.
She did a lot of representativesport for the school.
She joined in all activities.
She was on the debating team,the school student
representative council.
She did public speaking, which Icouldn't imagine her doing that
(02:55):
now.
She got a major trophy everysingle year in primary school at
presentation day at the end ofthe year, like academic awards.
Leisa Reichelt (03:06):
She didn't just cope, she smashed it.
Jennie Plummer (03:07):
Yeah, she did.
So this came as an awful shockwhen we went to high school.
But looking back, she did havesocial issues starting in year
five.
She kept swapping friends groupsand they'd have fights.
She couldn't understand what shewas doing wrong.
She said, I'm trying to be agood friend, but I don't know
what I'm doing wrong.
(03:28):
And she seemed to have a lot offriends, but no true, close,
meaningful friends.
She flitted around from group togroup and in the end she made
friends with children thatdidn't even attend that school,
just children she met on the busfrom other schools.
Even then she swapped thosefriends around.
(03:49):
So I thought she had heaps offriends, but she didn't really
have any.
Leisa Reichelt (03:52):
And now let's hear from Emma
Emma (03:54):
Primary school for them was pretty good.
They had, they seemed to havefriends.
Ushi changed friends she changedfriends regularly, so she'd be,
they'd tell me that she was apopular kid.
So again, this is part of thishigh masking, like appearing to
be like everybody else.
Conforming.
And very high perfectionismtendencies and very good at like
(04:16):
reading what other kids aredoing and what they look like
and how to be like them.
But she used to swap friends.
She had one really good friendall the way from Kinder that
they were like best friendsuntil quite recently.
But other than that, she'd justchanged friends with her years.
And then COVID happened and thatfor us was the sort of beginning
of the end
Leisa Reichelt (04:38):
Now, Mark's daughter was able to share much
more about her experience whenshe was quite young.
Let's hear from Mark.
Mark Thompson (04:45):
So when she used to go to daycare, she absolutely
loved it because it wasfreeform, she could do what she
liked.
She is a really curious kid andjust liked to do her own thing
in her own time, her own spaceand was wonderful.
So you'd sometimes go to pickher up and she'd be there going,
I don't want to leave I justwanna stay and have more fun.
(05:05):
And then, when we got topreschool, there was a few more
rules.
And she came back to us andsaid, i'm not quite sure I feel
comfortable here because theytell me what to do all the time,
and I don't like that.
And so as a first time parent,you kind of go away, you think
about that and you kind of go,well, your kids are going to
show some resistance to certainthings when they're being asked
(05:28):
to do things they don't want todo.
You try and navigate that asbest you can and you have a chat
with the preschool and theteachers and the people who have
seen it before.
And then when we got to school,that really kind of ramped up.
Everything became difficult.
Demands were hard for her, themore she struggled emotionally
(05:49):
that led to really big sensoryissues So even getting dressed
in the mornings becameincredibly difficult.
Mornings, really could takehours and hours doing stuff like
ironing the soles of shoes andmaking sure there was not a
single crease.
It just became very, verydifficult to the point where,
school attendance ground to acomplete halt.
Internally you're kind of going,there's something not quite
(06:10):
right here you've got all theexpectations.
Your children have to go toschool, they have to get an
education, they have to learn,which is all correct, but, it
didn't fit for us and it didn'tfit for her..
Leisa Reichelt (06:20):
And so that was in kindy that it all just kind
of fell apart completely.
Mark Thompson (06:24):
Yeah.
I mean, kindy wasn't too bad inthat, but I'm thinking back now
and she's ten, and even goingback I don't think she ever did
a, a complete week.
Leisa Reichelt (06:33):
Many of the parents who shared their School
Can't experience, sharedversions of a similar story,
which was their child lookedfine when they were at school.
They were compliant, maybe evenexcelling, but at home things
were different.
They would collapse.
There would be regular meltdownsor shutdowns.
These were kids who were maskingto try to make it work at
school, and then they broke downin the safety of their own home.
(06:55):
This is just one of the manyreasons our kids can be so
misunderstood.
Let's hear from Marissa.
Marissa Taylor (07:01):
So when I would first say to the school, you
know, this is how my child is,and they're like, it's normal.
Every child goes through that itwill settle down.
They even said, you know, you'llstart to see some behavioral
changes at home.
Well, they get very testy, veryangry.
And that's really becausethey're getting exhausted
through the day.
They just need time to settledown, and everything will be
(07:22):
okay.
That never happened.
I had constant behavioralproblems at home.
They were perfect out in thecommunity.
They were perfect at school.
So it made it really hard.
If I went to the doctors orprofessionals to say, Hey, look,
we are having behavioralproblems at home, it was really
always dismissed and just putdown to me.
And I was always given thatadvice of, you've just gotta be
(07:43):
a firmer parent.
Leisa Reichelt (07:45):
And now let's hear from Emma
Emma (07:47):
So my youngest child is now being diagnosed with PDA
autistic.
She also has chronic fatigue.
For her, everything is a safetything.
She goes through her world onhigh alert She was a hugely high
masker.
Everyone's like, oh, they'reperfect.
What are you talking about?
And they'd moan about my otherkid and I'd be like, what do you
(08:08):
mean?
He's fantastic at home becausehe's more of a fawner, more
compliant, whereas, my youngerone at home, she'd come home and
the wheels would fall off.
Leisa Reichelt (08:17):
Now let's hear from Jane, who also had some
pretty significant challenges athome.
Jane (08:22):
Our middle child, he had major School Can't would rip all
his clothes off, hide under thebed.
So we physically couldn't takehim to school.
He's autistic and would have 45minute meltdowns every single
day.
And they were horrific likewe're talking...
breaking things, trashing rooms.
We went through, I think aboutsix televisions.
(08:42):
yeah, it was a lot
Leisa Reichelt (08:43):
As time goes on, we can reach a point where
school becomes impossible andour kids fall into burnout.
These are kids who can't leavetheir bedrooms.
They're literally in the darkwith lights out and curtains
drawn.
Some for months, some for evenlonger.
Let's hear from Jennie.
Jennie Plummer (08:58):
And then eventually she wouldn't leave
her bedroom and she wouldn'thave the blinds open.
She had to stay in the dark.
She'd only leave to go to thetoilet.
She wouldn't shower, shewouldn't clean her teeth and
would only eat in her bedroom.
And then her sleep patternsreversed.
She was awake all night andasleep all day.
Leisa Reichelt (09:20):
Here's Lisa sharing their experience of
burnout
Lisa McLean (09:23):
She still had trauma in her and unfortunately
there was some kids there whodid bully her.
She even tells us now when shewent to school.
We thought she was at school.
She came home, laid in her bed.
She went into depressive statesand, and this is the thing in
between having her run away.
(09:43):
We also had her at home in bed,in a dark room, not being able
to move.
So we went between those sortsof experiences for, for probably
a year or more.
Leisa Reichelt (09:54):
And now let's hear from Emma and hear about
their experience.
Emma (09:58):
22, July 22, which kind of around when we went into
burnout.
We played in and out of burnoutfor a bit, what would happen is
you'd come into the bedroom andyou'd say something to her and
she'd goes, stop shouting at me.
And you could see like all hersenses were completely,
everything was unsafe.
Including us.
The world was unsafe for her.
(10:20):
She really started todeteriorate to the point where
she became bedbound.
So everyone's like, oh, she'sdepressed.
And they were trying to youknow, tell us oh, you need to
get her out and you need to gether to do more.
Um, and you believe people'causeyou think, well these are the
professionals.
They know what they're doing.
I mean, this is people in placesthat call themselves neuro
affirming, diagnosing PDA kids.
(10:41):
we now know is autistic burnout,chronic fatigue, and saying that
they need to push through, domore, get out and get some
exercise and some fresh air.
We went to high school like Ushiwas really full of hope.
Like, I'm going to go to highschool, it's going to be a
different environment, it'sgoing to be great.
And so we get there and we getall the uniform, we're all ready
to go.
She gets there and the firstweek's, okay.
And then as it deteriorates,deteriorates, deteriorates
Leisa Reichelt (11:02):
Yeah.
Emma (11:02):
going and she's back in bed.
And then we are seeing people atthe Royal Children's.
We're seeing OTs, we're seeingall sorts of people.
And we get referred to thisplace has been very helpful for
a lot of autistic kids, ingetting them back to school.
But my understanding is thatit's a university funded project
and it's a research project.
And the research project, theparadigm that it's trying to
(11:24):
prove is that, if you do certainthings, attendance will
increase.
And the problem that we havewhen we have a PDA autistic kid
who is in burnout, Is that yes,anxiety's involved in it, but
physically, someday she couldn'tlift her head off the pillow
because she'd go one day andthen have to recover.
(11:45):
She really wanted to do well.
But it actually set us backbecause what happened towards
the end as, as it was a six weekprogram.
I was 13 week program, I can'tremember, but we couldn't make
it through.
And each week we got less andthere was this, we'd get calls,
you know, if you don't completethe program, it's not going to
work.
You know, if you don't attend,it's not going to work.
(12:05):
Making us the problem, if it wasa trying issue.
I'm like, this is where we are.
She's not sat at home likedancing around she's bedridden.
And they just couldn't.
And I was giving them all thesebooks by Eliza Fricker and they
were lapping them up.
They were like, this is sointeresting.
And I'm thinking, am I the firstperson to be here with this?
Maybe I was, I don't know.
But, it seems strange.
(12:27):
The people were good, but theywere working on the wrong
paradigm.
The paradigm that they'reworking under is different to
the paradigm that our childrenare living.
Leisa Reichelt (12:35):
And how are our schools responding?
Well, it varies, but more oftenthan not, parents told us that
instead of support, they weremet with pressure, compliance
based strategies, legal letters,attendance targets.
Here's Marissa.
Marissa Taylor (12:47):
So we really didn't even get much of a chance
to put support in place.
It was literally, you have toget your child to school by law.
We have a wellness room here.
Just drag them to school.
Just get them to school.
And we started doing that and itwas getting really traumatic for
(13:08):
everybody.
And then the threats startedlike, if you don't do this, you
are going to end up with a fineand a court order.
My husband and I were going,like why, why we were being
treated like we are criminals?
Leisa Reichelt (13:19):
Now let's hear from Jane,
Jane (13:20):
Yeah, so it was really, really hard.
The advice from school was justbe consistent.
Just keep coming, keep going.
And the, specialists were like,yep, school's the best place.
We've gotta work on theaccommodations.
Make it work.
It was just getting worse.
And he was an absconder.
So he actually made it off theschool premises a couple of
times and was nearly hit by acar one time.
(13:42):
So it was pretty intense.
Leisa Reichelt (13:45):
Here's Lisa sharing their experience
Lisa McLean (13:47):
and I think particularly because the
education department says, well,you have to do something.
So, there was that externalpressure on us, which I know
many parents are going through.
You have to get to school.
So we did try third or fourthschool where she had to actually
go to school.
But that again, was talking tothe education department saying,
(14:08):
if you want her to go to school,you need to find a school for
us, and it has to be out of ourarea.
Leisa Reichelt (14:12):
Let's hear from Jennie.
Jennie Plummer (14:14):
you know what I was more worried about?
The Department of Educationbeing on my back'cause my
brother has a child thatstruggled with School Can't
since kindergarten.
She was two years younger thanmy daughter and they were sent
to court and I was waiting forthat.
I of course was worried about mydaughter but that added
(14:35):
pressure.
It's like you have to get toschool'cause I can't afford for
this to happen, but it's reallysad'cause that took time from me
for my daughter with me worryingabout keeping the school and
Department of Education happy,which shouldn't have been.
But in the end, my GP got amedical certificate and that
(14:58):
covered her.
And it was actually throughlistening to the people from
School Can't that I startedtaking a step back and taking a
completely different approach.
Leisa Reichelt (15:08):
As we listen to these School Can't lived
experiences, it's almostimpossible to overstate the toll
that this takes on entirefamilies.
Many of the parents that you'rehearing from have been advised
that they were the problem,their parenting was the problem.
They've blamed themselves andthey felt guilt.
They've second guessedeverything.
They felt isolated, stressed,and exhausted.
(15:28):
Let's hear from Jennie.
Jennie Plummer (15:30):
And I was getting frustrated thinking, why
can't you do this?
But now I know she really wasstruggling and she actually came
up to me and said, I think I'vegot ADHD like my brothers and
'cause I didn't know the femalepresentation was going, no, you
don't.
Like, I, I wrongly thought thatshe was becoming lazy, I think,
(15:55):
and she just didn't want to bein the high class and do the
work involved.
But now I know it was theopposite to that.
She was trying.
Trying and struggling.
Leisa Reichelt (16:07):
Let's hear from Mark.
Mark Thompson (16:08):
And so trying to balance what I think and what I
feel versus what I'm being totold I have to do.
Trying to manage it all was justso difficult.
I think for me, you feel a levelof shame of not being able to,
to, to manage everyone'swellness and support everyone in
the way you want to.
(16:29):
You have, how do I emotionallysupport, how do I intellectually
support, how do I financiallysupport, you still wanna try and
find, you still wanna try andfind joy in life as well.
You don't want life to becomethis rollercoaster of just
trying to manage things none ofthat seemed to be working.
There was anything that ahundred percent.
So yeah, just that internalgoing, what can I do differently
(16:49):
or what can I do more?
The answer was always workharder, you know, so, yeah.
Leisa Reichelt (16:54):
And now let's hear from Emma
Emma (16:56):
We got referred there and there was just some really
unhelpful things happened.
There's a lot of parent blamingand there was a lot of not
believing our experience andeven our pediatrician who we
ended up getting referred to,who was absolutely brilliant,
very old school, and thank Godwe had her because she at least
got us diagnosed with ADHD andreferred us to get diagnosed
with autism.
(17:17):
But at the time, it was eitherthat we weren't doing something
right at home, or that she wasbeing naughty.
Well, we did all the rewardcharts and all that nonsense.
And none of it worked.
And what we were doing wasdamaging our relationship with
our kids.
We are feeling awful aboutourselves.
So it's like, no, we're notdoing this anymore.
So again, you have to do thesethings that people tell you to
do and you're trying and you'retrying and, and even like far
(17:39):
down the line as we are now, youstill get that little am I
really doing this right or amI...
Leisa Reichelt (17:45):
Here's Marissa.
Marissa Taylor (17:46):
And I was always given that advice of, you've
just gotta be a firmer parent.
You've just gotta lay down thelaw.
All that kind of reallyunhelpful advice, which you
don't know is unhelpful at thetime you just think, oh, okay,
maybe I'm just too soft.
Or you really start to believethat it is a you problem.
It is not a bigger, widerproblem.
Leisa Reichelt (18:07):
But there's a turning point in these stories,
and it usually comes when thepressure to attend schools
stops.
This is when parents arelearning about the role of the
nervous system.
When parents truly believe thatkids will do well, if they can.
This is when we can begin to letgo of expectations and start to
focus on our child's wellbeing.
Then recovery can begin.
(18:27):
Slowly but surely.
Let's hear from Marissa.
Marissa Taylor (18:30):
And then I was trying to get ready for work
'cause I'm the day worker andyou know, and I, and of a sudden
there was just me and my childon the floor, crying.
I just got to a point and I saidto myself, I can't do this like
this.
This is not healthy.
You cannot tell me that this isa healthy way to live.
(18:51):
I just stopped and I just, Iapologized to my child, gave
them a hug, put them back intobed.
And I said, I am so sorry.
You stay there, I'll work itout.
Leisa Reichelt (19:02):
Now let's hear from Jane,
Jane (19:04):
He did have a trauma response to school, so he did
have PTSD from, that's howassaulted his senses were I
quickly found out that weweren't going to be able to do
anything that looked likeschool.
And from the kind ofconversations and researching I
did, I found out aboutdeschooling, which is the
process of doing nothing ininverted commas.
(19:26):
It's kind of like a holiday.
Don't think about school, justheal from that experience and
the trauma and the stress ofdealing with the school system,
Letting your nervous systemreset.
Cheese went from, having 45minute meltdowns a day to none,
like zero.
I can't tell you the last timehe had one.
So that in itself, I thinkspeaks volumes.
(19:48):
We have a therapy swing in ourlounge room and he would spend
hours in that every day.
It gave him like a big hug, justthe nice pressure.
And he was happy doing that.
We read books, played games.
I got into video games with him.
Just whatever he wanted to doand enjoyed doing, I went with,
through that process, you get toforget everything you know about
(20:12):
school.
Just throw it out the window,and look at your child afresh.
What are their interests?
How do they learn?
What do they engage with?
Are they more engaged in themorning than the afternoon?
Is it inside?
Is it outside?
Is it going out in nature?
So now we have a very Unschooledapproach, which is.
We go with his interests whenhe's interested.
(20:34):
The more effort I put into alesson or a project, more likely
he is to go, nup, not for me.
We take a strength-basedapproach.
So we look at what he lovesdoing and work on that.
So he is a history boffin.
So we have got senior highschool teacher who comes in and
(20:54):
does tutoring, not with the goalof HSC or anything like that,
but just someone that can engagewith him on his level.
So he's in the equivalent ofYear Six now this woman is a
senior, 11/12, getting kidsready for the HSC and he's
teaching her things.
The knowledge, and just the joyof him engaging what he loves.
(21:16):
He's just, he's on cloud ninefor the rest of the day because
he's had all this time to speakfor someone, engage with someone
on a special interest level,which is fantastic for him.
Yeah.
Leisa Reichelt (21:25):
Let's hear from Emma.
Emma (21:26):
What I learned from listening to people like Viv
Dawes and Eliza Fricker, wasthat look, follow their passion,
low demand, and follow thepassion and let the passion
lead.
And what Viv talks about a lotin her work and her, her books
have been really helpful to me,was this idea of, you know,
letting that passion lead andit's been absolutely the right
(21:47):
strategy, and even when Iconvince myself sometimes that
it's not.
You know, she is managing to doso much.
Leisa Reichelt (21:54):
Let's hear from Jennie.
Jennie Plummer (21:55):
The big thing was repeatedly to get her
assessed and diagnosed, andthey're saying she sounds like
she does have either ADHD orAutism or both.
And to help support hermentally, and to take all
pressure off, allow her timeaway from school.
(22:16):
Not to listen to family and notto be pressured by the school or
society's expectationsbasically.
And I'm so glad I listened toall those wonderful people with
lived experience because here weare today doing quite well now.
Leisa Reichelt (22:35):
Once the nervous system settles, something
incredible can happen.
These young people can begin toreengage with life in their own
way, on their own timeline,whether that's through home
education, through theirhobbies, through part-time work,
or maybe TAFE with their familysupport, they can find paths
that will work for them.
Here's Lisa.
Lisa McLean (22:54):
So she lives on her own, supports herself doing
amazing.
And she's 19 now, and she's juststarted a course at TAFE To be a
social worker.
Which we just think is amazingbecause for her now, she's sort
of healing and working.
She's been seeing a holisticcounselor.
She understands now aboutjournaling and meditation and
(23:17):
all those things that can help.
She now wants to do social workso she can help other young
people who went through what shedid.
Its early days.
Leisa Reichelt (23:26):
And now let's hear from Emma
Emma (23:29):
This year she started ice skating, and she started
studying Russian because sheloves ice skating.
So she's going to VictorianLanguages School on Saturday
morning to study Russian fromnine til 12.20, which to me is
an incredibly long time, but shecomes out of it absolutely
buzzing'cause relational safety.
The teachers are really nice.
(23:50):
She's passionate about thesubject.That relational safety
gives her energy,
Leisa Reichelt (23:54):
Let's hear from Mark.
Mark Thompson (23:56):
And we, we, we put some computer skills on
that.
So we put everything into aspreadsheet around one of her
hobbies.
She actually came up to me thenext day and said to me, can we
do some more work on thatproject today?
And that's never happenedbefore.
And it was, it was really,really, fascinating and
phenomenal for, us.
But it was great that, she feltin control that she was taken on
(24:17):
the lesson, like, when she madea mistake with spelling or
grammar or whatever.
She'd go, oh yeah, okay.
I need to, I need to rememberthat.
And so became a little bit of afun game to make a mistake, just
the two of us sat there andthat's the first ever time she's
asked to do more work, which wasjust phenomenal.
Leisa Reichelt (24:32):
This School Can't experience very often
changes the entire family.
Many of the parents you'rehearing from have discovered
their own neurodivergence alongthe way.
They've learned a lot aboutthemselves.
They've changed how they live,how they work, how they parent,
and certainly how they thinkabout education.
Let's hear from Marissa.
Marissa Taylor (24:51):
I bit the bullet and I started her In Tune With
PDA program.
I think I only got to thatmodule four, and I was like, I
paused and I was, I, I sat thereand went, this is me.
I'm actually learning aboutmyself.
Yes, it's my kids too,obviously, but the first thing
that just came to me was I'mlearning about myself here.
(25:13):
And so then I went running to mypsychologist and I was like, I
think it's me too.
And surprisingly at the sametime, the psychologist I was
seeing at the time, she had justdone her training in autism
assessments and she said to me,you know what?
I can see it now.
And we put the two and twotogether and then I went through
the process of formal diagnosiswith another psychologist.
Leisa Reichelt (25:35):
Here's Lisa.
Lisa McLean (25:37):
The reality is understanding ourselves better
and why we behave certain waysor why we have certain
expectations or why we holdstress the way we do, healing
ourselves then allows us to bebetter parents.
We needed to look inwards andreally change things up for
ourselves and really, you know,learn a bit about ourselves and,
(26:00):
that allowed us then to be ableto support her better.
We do our best.
And, you know, I say ourdaughter is definitely my
biggest teacher in my life todate because, despite going
through all of that, which Inever wish on any child or
parent.
There's been a lot of growth andhealing and a lot of
understanding about ourselvesthrough the process.
(26:22):
So that's, that's thepost-traumatic growth from the
experience that we now have,which, you know, I feel very
grateful that we can have thatbecause she is healthy and well
and coping now, which isamazing.
Leisa Reichelt (26:37):
Let's hear from Mark.
Mark Thompson (26:38):
One of the things I've said quite frequently is in
this whole journey, you have totrust your gut.
And think I've learned more thananything, I have to trust her
gut because she's taught us somuch about different ways of
thinking, different ways being,and so if she tells us now
something's too much.
We know she's right, she's beenright since she was knee high.
(27:01):
And so therefore, just listeningto her and accepting her, she's
got a really good handle of howshe's feeling and what's
happening for her, both in hermind and body.
So just listening to that isreally important.
Leisa Reichelt (27:12):
Well, huge thanks to Jennie, Marissa, Mark,
Jane, Emma, and Lisa who allshared their School Can't lived
experience with us on ourpodcast.
I have put links to their fullepisodes in the episode notes if
you would like to hear more fromthem.
And if you are inspired to shareyour School Can't lived
experience, we would love tohear from you.
It's an easy process and anyonecan do it.
(27:33):
Just drop me an email toschoolcantpodcast@gmail.com.
If you have found this podcasthelpful, please take a moment to
share, subscribe, maybe evengive us a rating or a review.
It really does help get thispodcast in front of even more
people who have School Can'tkids, and haven't found our
community and the information wecan share.
If you are a parent or carer inAustralia and you are feeling
(27:55):
distressed, remember you canalways call the parent helpline
in your state.
A link with the number to callis in the episode notes.
Thank you again so much forlistening, and we will talk
again soon.
Take care.
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