August 4, 2025 • 30 mins
In this episode, host Leisa Reichelt is joined by School Can't mum Nicola, who shares her family's journey through School Can’t challenges.
Nicola discusses the challenges her family has faced in finding the best way to support her children in their well being as well as their education. She shares the challenges of shifting her mindset, having come from a background that valued academics. Nicola talks about her grief for the life she imagined she would have and having to give up her career. The conversation also covers the relief that moving to Home Education has brought the family.
Nicola focuses on the importance of maintaining a strong parent-child connection, and reaching out for support to come to terms with becoming a carer.
00:00 Introduction and Welcome
00:28 Meet Nicola
02:07 Early Signs and Struggles
06:31 The Turning Point: Seeking Help
08:09 Embracing Home Education
09:04 Balancing Career and Family
11:38 Navigating Grief and Acceptance
19:09 Insights on Home Education
25:51 Final Thoughts and Resources
Recommended Resources
- How to Keep House While Drowning (book) - https://www.amazon.com.au/How-Keep-House-While-Drowning/dp/1529159415/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0
- Home Education Network - https://home-ed.vic.edu.au/
- Home Education Registration around Australia - https://home-ed.vic.edu.au/home-ed-registration-around-australia/
- Carer Gateway - https://www.carergateway.gov.au/
- School Can’t Australia Facebook Community - https://www.facebook.com/groups/schoolphobiaschoolrefusalaustralia
- Make a donation to School Can’t Australia - https://www.schoolcantaustralia.com.au/get-involved
If you are a parent of carer in Australia and experiencing distress, please call Lifeline on 13 11 14 or contact the Parent Help Line. - https://kidshelpline.com.au/parents/issues/how-parentline-can-help-you
You can contact us to volunteer to share your School Can't story or some feedback via email on schoolcantpodcast@gmail.com
Disclaimer
The content of this podcast is based on personal lived experiences and is shared for informational and storytelling purposes only. It should not be treated as medical, psychological, or professional advice under any circumstances. If you have concerns about your health or well-being, please seek guidance from a doctor, therapist, or other qualified professional.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Leisa Reichelt (00:05):
Hello and welcome to the School Can't
Experience Podcast.
I'm Leisa Reichelt, and thispodcast is brought to you by the
School Can't Australiacommunity.
Caring for a young person who'sstruggling to attend school can
be a stressful and isolatingexperience, but you are not
alone.
Thousands of parents acrossAustralia and many more around
the world face similarchallenges and experiences every
(00:27):
day.
Today we are joined by SchoolCan't mum, Nicola.
Nicola's been on a journey withher family, including two young
people who have struggled toattend school.
In today's episode, Nicola'sgoing to take us on the journey
that she and her family havebeen on, and in particular the
learning and the mindset shiftsthat she's experienced along the
way.
A quick content warning.
(00:48):
This episode does discuss somesensitive topics including the
mention of a suicide attempt, soplease take care when listening.
Here's Nicola's story.
Welcome, Nicola.
Thank you so much for joining uson our podcast today.
Nicola (01:00):
Lovely to be here.
Leisa Reichelt (01:02):
Well, let's get started by just getting a little
bit of context around you andyour family, Nicola.
What can help us understand alittle bit more about you?
Nicola (01:11):
I am mum two, two lovely humans, teenagers now, I was
always, a academically broughtup, a lot of value was placed
the importance of education mykids seemed to be quite bright.
And so I thought, yes, theywill, they will go on and, and
have their choice of whatevertheir future might hold.
(01:31):
know, they, they'll be able topick their path.
then we had COVID and lockdownsand during that time was eldest
hit high school.
seemed to be really strugglingand we weren't quite sure what
was going on school seemed tobe, big part of it.
So we reduced a whole lot ofdemands, they still continued to
struggle.
Fast forward another couple ofyears and then my youngest is
(01:52):
due to start high school and,and then they also started
struggle to attend.
had uh, three or four years oneor the other, or both at the
same time, attending mostpart-time, sometimes not at all.
Leisa Reichelt (02:07):
So Nicola, if you use the benefit of hindsight
and go back in time and hunt forthe earliest signs that things
might not go the way that you'dthought.
What do you think were theearliest clues?
Nicola (02:21):
Gosh, it's hard to know.
the full benefit of hindsightand, you as many of us did
getting diagnoses ofneurodiversity during and post
COVID, think that might have, ifI had have known that back then,
that might've tipped me off.
back then my eldest hadundiagnosed celiac So they were
(02:42):
just tired all the time and werelike, well, you're tired.
Maybe you should sleep more oreat better or do something
different.
Uh, and in primary school theywere doing great academically
and all the teachers loved them.
And at 90% of the, the problemsthat they were facing, which
were few and far between, wereall around connections with
people.
(03:03):
They would form really strongbonds.
And then over time asfriendships do, in early days,
sort of would change andfracture and move my oldest
would butt heads with somepeople or be quite judgmental.
And if I, had of known what Iknow now, that would've been a
sign that their neurodiversitywas, making it hard for them to
be in that kind formal schoolenvironment.
(03:24):
might've approached things a didifferently, but I don't know
how, because school is school.
can't you change too much ofthat environment.
Um, next set of signs was theeven post celiac diagnosis, they
were still low energy and reallystruggling every single day.
were pursuing diagnoses andtrying looking for things there.
(03:46):
were also at to live our livesand do all the things and
support all the people.
And, and if I had known where wewere gonna end up, then
would've, would've stoppedearlier because You You
relationship with my kids wasjust so difficult.
whole journey has really broughtback to me that, we want the
(04:07):
world for our children and wewanna offer them and push them
and encourage them get past youboundaries of what they can see,
because we have more livedexperience than them we know
what our kids are capable of.
Our number one job is, is to bethere love them.
And when you can sense thattrusting, loving relationship,
(04:29):
just constantly being worn downby the demands of day-to-day
life, a sign that something'sreally wrong.
And I think that's really whereI would've noticed that, that
things were just, we needed todo something else.
Leisa Reichelt (04:44):
So you mentioned that general kind of tiredness
that maybe the Celiac diseasecould have explained, but even
with that diagnosis, that didn'tgo away, every day, all the
time, they're just saying, I'mtired.
I'm tired, I'm tired.
Nicola (04:58):
Tired.
My body hurts.
know, they would sort of dothings the minimum they could
get away with or just try not todo it at all.
dealing with early teenagershere.
They're known for being a littleself-involved and a, you little
self-centered, and maybe alittle lazy, as a quite old
teenager that I am still on theinside, I would love to not do
(05:21):
all the jobs that I have to do.
And so you misread the signals.
You are like, oh, you're tellingme you're tired, but that's just
an excuse and you should suck itup and clean your room.
so yeah, you, know, we go aroundand making these assumptions
because we don't know that lifecould be any other way.
And it's only since coming onthis journey that I've
(05:43):
discovered School Can't is evena thing
Leisa Reichelt (05:47):
What was that journey like for you?
So you go from like,'cause Imean, I have a son who's very
much the same, right?
He's like always tired all thetime.
And I very much was the same.
I'm just like, we're all tired.
Suck it up.
Let's get on with it.
How did you get to a differentmindset on this?
What was your path?
Nicola (06:06):
Very slow.
We cut back on a whole bunch ofextracurricular activities.
We had that raft of headache,stomach ache, things that are
You signs and symptoms of yourcentral nervous system not
working properly, very difficultto validate through you medical
expertise when you're lookingfor a medical explanation of why
(06:27):
is my child generally unwell?
all came to a head when myeldest ended up, we were having
one too many arguments abouttheir phone use.
ended up in hospital, after anattempted overdose, which
thankfully was you self-reportedand we got them help.
(06:47):
and It showed that, you had beena significant trust rupture.
Like kids that age, don't gothese actions lightly.
They do it if they think that isno hope.
There's nobody in their cornerwho can support them.
From there, you sort ramped upvarious supports.
already engaged a psychologist.
(07:07):
Tried looking at some othermedical stuff.
And so hence the, theneurodiversity diagnosis.
then they were still continuingto struggle and, became apparent
that we just weren't going tomake their normal high school
work.
then went to online schoolpart-time.
(07:28):
was you not too muchinteraction.
Really small class sizes,headphones, better sort protocol
'cause when you're online,people don't tend to all talk at
once.
managed about two to three weeksof that.
Then we were like, okay, thisthis is still not working.
Let's just take a big break.
(07:48):
We'll take a term off.
Explore some other things thatmight be going on and see
whether we can get some supportsback on board you want to start
year 10.
of Of course you this sounds allvery neat and orderly, but like
a duck on the top of the waterunderneath mum's feet are
swimming like mad.
Leisa Reichelt (08:09):
Yeah.
Nicola (08:09):
Because in time I'd been busy researching home education,
which scared the daylights outof me but turned out to be not
scary at all because there's awonderful Home Education Network
and they were very reassuring.
And I attended some webinars andI thought, actually, no, can do
this.
It doesn't have to look likeformal schooling.
This is amazing.
I can researching, other peoplegoing through this.
(08:30):
That That's when I came acrossSchool Australia.
really liked the framing ofeverything.
It's not school refusal, andusing that meant that have good
conversations with school, otherexternal support people.
Leisa Reichelt (08:44):
What was going on for you, Nicola?
Because I imagine that inaddition to doing all of this
research work and working withthe school and getting your head
around the idea of homeeducation, you probably had
other stuff going on as well.
You are working through all ofthis or trying to?
Nicola (09:04):
I was a chief of staff, for an Australian email company.
We had, 50, 60 employees acrossthe States and India and
Australia.
Leisa Reichelt (09:14):
That sounds very demanding.
Nicola (09:15):
I just couldn't manage the stress of the kids at home
and the demands of the jobsimultaneously.
and so something had to give.
Leisa Reichelt (09:23):
Can you give us a bit of a sense of what a day
in the life was like back inthis peak time when you were
working full time in this bigjob and you had all the stuff
going on at home as well.
What was that like?
Nicola (09:36):
There was a lot of guilt.
It was post pandemic, so we weresupposed to be in the office,
not full time, butsemi-regularly.
I didn't feel like I had theenergy to do that or the, social
capacity.
There were times where I got onthe train and got halfway in and
then got off the train and wentback home again because it
seemed too much to fit it in.
(09:57):
I was still juggling my workstuff, but I was taking these
breaks all the time because Ihad to, you know, ferry a child
to an appointment or go andcheck on them and make sure they
were okay or get on the phone toresearch things or make
appointments or talk to theschool Half of my brain at all
times was sitting there going,what are we gonna do next?
(10:18):
So I think I've researched everyschool in Victoria where I live,
looked at so many differentexternal supports, to see which
one might work for my child,researching home education.
Where could I find a supportgroup that my kid might go to,
to form new friends.
Talking to friends and familywho would give me well-meaning,
(10:41):
but unhelpful tips.
There was housework and makingdinner.
My husband was working at thesame time too.
And, and so there was a lot ofjuggle.
And then a lot of, you know, Ihad plenty of mental health
things, so I had appointments togo to, And just, not enough
sleep.
My whole body was likephysically vibrating from time
to time just'cause of the degreeof stress.
(11:03):
And I thought, this is, this hasgot to change.
So I actually resigned from myjob.
I couldn't do that jobpart-time.
so I thought, I need a, a totalbreak and let's, let's try and
get the family back on track.
And now, three years later orwhatever it is, I'm working one
day a week.
and that's, I think, the mostthat I can manage.
And that's having come to termsand be at peace with my eldest
(11:26):
not doing any kind of formalschooling.
Leisa Reichelt (11:31):
How has that been for you, giving up that
career and leaning into this newlifestyle?
Nicola (11:38):
It has been years of grief It's not one big lump of
grief, it's about 60 lumps ofgrief.
The first one is, why is thiseven happening?
My kids are really unhappy andI'm really unhappy, and this is
not the life that I wanted forme and them, and so something
has to change.
(11:58):
The life that I thought we wouldhave is not what we're gonna
have.
Then I would fasten on the nextplan of whatever it might be,
whether that was, you know, weare gonna try a different
therapist, or we're gonna try adifferent school, changing the
hours or we're gonna try nothaving to wear school uniform.
and every time.
was like, yeah, okay, this ishopefully gonna work.
(12:18):
And then it didn't, then I haveto go back to the drawing board
and try again.
it went from, maybe we're doingVCE Unscored.
Well maybe we are doing VCEUnscored part-time.
Maybe gonna do VET, maybe we'regonna do this, that and the
other.
Maybe we're gonna do it online.
What if we don't do any highschool at all?
(12:40):
Each one of these things, it gotto the point where every time it
happened, there'd be anotherbout of grief and loss and like,
where I thought we were goingversus where we ended up.
Became an expert on the 9,000different ways that you can get
into tertiary.
In my day there was just the bigfront door that 90% of the
(13:00):
people who wanted to do tertiarywould go through.
there was maybe a little sidedoor for mature age and some
sort of special considerationpeople.
And now there's, you know, 15different doors.
And yes, you know, the maindoors are still the main doors,
but there maybe 50% of people gothrough that now'cause there's
so many other pathways.
And so was quite reassuring thenwhen I finally said, right,
(13:23):
we're gonna withdraw and enrollin homeschooling.
Plenty of anxiety still.
I thought, my husband and myfamily would kick up a lot of
fuss over, how could you, whatdoes that look like?
Gosh, you must be spending allof your day teaching your child
algebra.
I'm like, no, we're not doingthat.
That is, you know, that would,that would end us the worst
(13:44):
place possible.
You know, the best thing that Ican do is be there emotionally
for my child so that they alwaysknow that home is safe.
Trying to teach them algebrawill, you know, that's a
terrible plan.
I can't be their mother andtheir teacher, given that school
is so uncomfortable for them.
Leisa Reichelt (13:59):
And that relationship is so important.
Nicola (14:02):
It is.
So, yeah, it's been grief,grief, grief, grief, grief.
And then suddenly when I stoppedpushing so hard, I went, all
right, well, we're gonna gohomeschooling.
And just kind of go withwhatever my kid has capacity
for.
It was this amazing sense ofrelief.
And suddenly home life got lessstressful.
(14:23):
I had more brain back to dothings for myself, but also for
the household.
And it was around then that myyoungest was like, well, maybe I
could reengage with school.
I had to line up a bunch ofsupports for them too.
But just, all around that time,everything just started to come
together.
I, I cannot tell you how greatthat was after years of so much
(14:50):
stress.
I mean, there's still a lot ofemotion tied up in that, do I
think that, I could have donemore.
I mean, uh, we're a parent, wealways feel like we've failed
our children in some way.
Leisa Reichelt (15:03):
How do you feel about you and where your life
has turned out now?
Nicola (15:07):
I still carry that grief for the life that I thought I
was gonna have and the one thatI've ended up with now.
I accessed Carer Gateway, otherthings going in my life that
also added to my carer load.
I was like, I would like carercounseling because I think a lot
of the stuff that I've got goingon relates to that role as a
carer.
I wanted someone with particularexpertise in what is it like
(15:30):
being a support system,particularly for your child.
and it, you know, impacts onyour life and, you end up with
all these complicated emotionsthat you feel guilty about.
Like, why am I frustrated withhaving to support my kid this
way?
Or I know why I am frustrated,but what do I do with this
emotion?
can I turn it into somethingthat's productive instead?
(15:52):
My frustration with thesituation is actually, you know,
unpacked.
I'm like, well, this is whatenables me to keep going and
keep advocating for my kid andkeep looking for supports that
might work because the story isnot yet finished.
That frustration with where weare now is actually helping me
keep us going towards somethingthat might be better, rather
(16:14):
than just throwing up our handsand saying, well, this is what
we've got now and we are stuckhere.
Leisa Reichelt (16:20):
You mentioned, when you were talking at home
education that you, you mighthave gotten a little bit of, of
challenge potentially fromfriends and family and maybe
husband.
how, how much have you and yourpartner been on the same page
through this journey?
Has that been a challengingthing?
Nicola (16:38):
We are two people who've been married for quite a while.
You spend enough time with anyone person and you end up having
some differences of opinion.
He was less involved with thekids' day-to-day experiences,
and he was not going to all ofthese appointments and talking
to psychologists and the school.
I was carrying all of that in myhead and he would only see the
(17:03):
behavior that was visible athome.
He was sort of following alongtwo months behind where my
thinking was.
We had the occasional chat whereI said I understand that you are
frustrated and I have not beenpassing on as much of this
information to you as maybe Ishould have, but here's where we
are now and we can't do thatthing that you want us to do
(17:24):
because these are the reasonswhy, So, I would have to catch
him up.
Leisa Reichelt (17:27):
it's a job in and of itself, isn't it?
educating other people who havequestions about why things are
going the way that they're goingand you spend so much time
intensely trying to understandall of these things people might
think you're just sitting aroundplaying on Facebook, they don't
understand all the work thatyou're doing, it's kind of
invisible work a lot of thetime, and then you have to bring
(17:48):
everybody else on the journey.
It's a pain really, isn't it?
It's like just one more thing.
Nicola (17:52):
You do, you're running around and looking for
information, for understanding,for something that helps it all
make sense.
I've learned a lot now about thecentral nervous system, the
psychology of humans, young andold, about a whole bunch of
physical things due to thesituation with one kid and then
me and then the other kid, andall the rest of it.
(18:13):
So, you know, I'm an amateur Idon't know, biologist, human
biology, psychology, centralnervous system
Leisa Reichelt (18:20):
Hmm.
Nicola (18:21):
we've got so many people now involved in the care team,
and I'm the person who has topull it all together because
these conditions are comorbid.
I'd sit there and say, well, wetried doing this, but we
couldn't because of thissymptom, which is tied to this,
but we're actually seeing youare over here.
it's all related because X, Y,and Z.
People are like, all you seem todo all day is sit on the
(18:41):
computer and hang around.
I'm like, that's because I amresearching, looking up
scientific papers that explainwhy these things are all
related, and how they impact mychild on a day-to-day basis.
And therefore, what supports wecould use or access or try, but,
when I found good resources,then I would save them and share
them with people to say, look,it's not just me, it's not my
(19:05):
kid being obnoxious.
Leisa Reichelt (19:07):
Amazing.
I would love to hear a littlebit about your experience of
home education.
You said that you started offbeing scared of it and then you
envisaged that it was like youwalking around the dining table
lecturing on algebra.
you've come to a differentunderstanding of it.
Can you talk to me a little bitabout how you and your child are
(19:30):
doing home education, what yourapproach is and how that's
working.
Nicola (19:34):
Helpfully the Home Education Network had a lot of
resources to showcase differentkinds of plans that you put
forward to the government tosay, I promise I have thought
about these eight areas that youbelieve are important to young
humans development andacademically and so, I was
(19:55):
looking at those and going, youcan apply for exemptions in
certain subjects.
My child is unwell.
We definitely cannot cover allof this thing.
What are their interests?
Well, they're currentlyinterested in sewing and anime.
I said, right, we're gonna getgrandma involved and we're gonna
do a sewing project, and that'llcover us for maths and it'll
(20:15):
cover us for arts and crafts.
And well, they're seeing allthese medical specialists, so
that's covering us for scienceand human development.
You mean home education can justbe doing stuff that my child is
interested in and then tying itback to these subjects.
Can it really be that simple?
Plus, applying for exemptions,for whatever reason works for
(20:36):
you.
I'd send it off to the HomeEducation Network people and
they said, yes, this looksgreat.
And I sent it off to thegovernment and they wrote back
and said, yes, this looks great.
Have we done a lot of the thingsthat I had in the plan?
No, because we keep uncoveringnew diagnoses and so the
capacity that we've got totackle these things has been
reduced.
(20:57):
And that's okay too.
Like how much of a relief isthat, that the government says,
we know that plans change andyou're not gonna get in trouble
if you don't do the things thatyou put in your plan.
If you get audited, we'd justlike to know that you have not
just stared at YouTube all day.
Leisa Reichelt (21:13):
Lots to learn on YouTube.
Nicola (21:15):
but like maybe 16 hours a day of YouTube is a few too
many.
Leisa Reichelt (21:20):
Sometimes I think we do 16 hours of YouTube
in this house, so I'm not one tojudge.
You kind of started off right atthe beginning of this talking
about how, you came into thiswhole experience as somebody
from quite an academicbackground who really valued
academics and all that kind ofthing.
and now obviously the approachthat you're taking with your
(21:40):
eldest is very much not alignedwith what you had experienced
and maybe what you expected, howhave you gotten your head around
that to a point where you canfeel satisfied?
Nicola (21:56):
That's a question and a half.
Leisa Reichelt (21:59):
Sorry,
Nicola (22:01):
we spoke about those stages of grief because the
future is uncertain and, Despitethe fact that knowing, you know,
whether you wanna go intotertiary or get a job or
whatever it is, you don't haveto have that tick at the end of
your high school journey inorder to do any of those things.
In some respects it leaves, itleaves everything so wide open.
(22:25):
But my kid is still so unwell,I'm like, I don't, I don't know
what the future holds for themand, and that, that still leaves
me with anxiety.
I don't know what they, whatthey're gonna be capable of
doing.
I do know that when they decidewhat it is, if we can help them
get there, they'll be amazing atit.
But at the moment, that justseems so far away.
(22:49):
for my youngest, I've realizedthrough all of this, I'm like,
do you know what?
The marks don't matter.
That has been a big relief andit makes me, feel sad for the
young anxious me who put in somuch effort to try and do the
best I could possibly do.
it didn't matter whether I got a92 or a 52, I passed the
subject.
(23:09):
I'm running around telling mynieces and nephews and everybody
else who, who will listen.
I'm like, do you know what?
Trying to get to the end of year12.
The school has to put a lot ofemphasis on it.
'cause a lot of their funding istied to it.
They really want you to get thebest results that you can.
And you know, your parents areon your case to try and get you
(23:30):
to study and do all the thingsthat you need to do.
But it's like being pregnant andeverybody's focused on the
birth, but, what they can'teducate you with when you're
pregnant is what is the next 20,30, 40, 50 years like as a
parent, less
Leisa Reichelt (23:46):
Yeah.
Nicola (23:47):
few weeks, and I feel that, finishing off high school
is a bit the same.
Everybody's focused on gettingto that final number or whatever
it is that might look like forthe end of your schooling, but
nobody looks at that.
whatever your next step is,nobody looks at it again.
Leisa Reichelt (24:03):
Yeah, you're so right.
I think the other thing that Ireally learned from talking to
the home education network folkas well is that it doesn't all
have to be done by the timeyou're 18.
We have this false deadline thatyou have to have all of this
done by the time you're 18.
And then it's like, game over.
Can't do that anymore.
And it's like, you can take aslong as you need to get through
this stage and work out what'snext,
Nicola (24:23):
you
Leisa Reichelt (24:23):
there's no rush.
Nicola (24:25):
until you finish your high schooling at age 38.
If you, if that's where you'reat and you're like, I regret not
having finished my thing.
Well, you can go back at 38 andfinish We've got huge amounts of
flexibility You know, we've gotso many options now, But for me
to suddenly go, do you knowwhat, I don't care about the
marks.
Which has been a interestingjourney for me psychologically
(24:48):
to sit there, you know, assomeone to whom, strong
academics was such a core piecegrowing up.
having another viewpoint, hastaken a lot of time and a lot of
reading, and a lot of justsitting with what it that I want
for my child?
and I would much
Leisa Reichelt (25:04):
Yeah.
Nicola (25:05):
have, someone who is curious and interested in the
world and, knows that they cancome and chat to me about
anything.
I'd much rather have that childthan the one who is miserable,
grumpy, angry.
We can't communicate'cause everytime we're communicating, we are
fighting My role as a parent isto ensure their safety long term
(25:27):
and to create the, you know,person who can function as
independently as they can.
And I, I can only do that ifthey know that I will always be
there for them and that I alwayslove them and, and they're,
worthwhile as a human and I'malways gonna be there for them.
now that they're a bit older,we're gonna talk about what
matters to them and how I canhelp them get there,
Leisa Reichelt (25:49):
lovely.
Nicola, I might move us onto ourlast couple of questions, if
that's okay.
So if you could go back in timeand tell earlier Nicola
something, when would you goback to him?
What do you think you'd tellyourself?
Nicola (26:05):
I mean, I'd almost go back to when I was pregnant and
panicking about would we be goodenough parents?
And I'd say, it'll be okay.
the most important thing you cando as a parent is to have that
strong connection When you areworking together and got that
trust with one another, you canmake it through the obstacles.
(26:25):
Life is not smooth and easy.
it's okay and life's definitelynot gonna look like the way you
thought it will.
If you focus on that trust bond,then it'll be okay.
Leisa Reichelt (26:37):
That's your priority.
Focus on the trust bond.
If you could tell everybodywho's listening, who's going
through their own School Can'texperience right now, one thing,
what would you want everybody toknow?
Nicola (26:51):
I mean, again, it's gotta be that whole thing where
you are connecting with yourkid.
In so many support groups onFacebook and elsewhere, I see so
many people in the School Can'texperience searching for a way
that will help them get theirkid to school.
How do I get them to school?
How do I, tell the school what Ineed?
(27:13):
How do I school?
And it's really school focused Iwould love for there to be a
shift in the conversation to howdo I support my child so that
it's not about the school, it'sabout my child.
I think would make all of usfeel a lot less stressed.
Unfortunately, our whole cultureis centered on the fact that,
when you're a certain age, youmust be at school.
(27:33):
We put a lot of pressure onourselves.
There are so many options nowand school doesn't have to look
the way we are taught that ithas to look so, focus on your
kid'cause any other process ismadness.
Like you, you'll go mad.
Leisa Reichelt (27:49):
And then finally, if there was one
resource that stands out thatyou think people would.
benefit from knowing about, whatwould you recommend?
Nicola (27:59):
Interestingly, it's a book that's nominally about
housework called How to KeepHouse While Drowning.
a very dear friend sent it tome.
And it does not come with, youknow, you've had to organize
your laundry basket to make thateasy.
It is about, teaching you thatchores are morally neutral and
(28:20):
so you're not a bad person ifyou don't have your house
looking a certain way.
It doesn't make you good or badperson.
if a job is worth doing, you canhalf do it.
and suddenly that made sense tome because, you know, whether it
was, I don't have time or theenergy to do a full load of
dishes, so I'm gonna scrub thefry pan and.
(28:42):
two saucepans because that'swhat we use and the rest will
have to wait.
But that also worked for me forthe school journey too, to say,
well, I'd love for my kid to beback at school full time, if all
we can manage right now is oneperiod.
It's okay to say, well, if oneperiod's what we can manage,
then one period is what we'lltry to do.
Leisa Reichelt (29:03):
Yes.
Taking the burden of judgment ofourselves is a huge thing, isn't
it?
Nicola (29:07):
and giving yourselves so much compassion because we're
trying to juggle it all.
And we think of ourselves asfailing if we are not able to
juggle it all, and sometimeslife just, that's too much in
one bucket.
Leisa Reichelt (29:22):
Nicola, thank you so much for sharing your
journey.
I'm really pleased that you areable to get through those
difficult times and transitioninto a place where things are
working for your kids and yourfamily And better for you as
well
Nicola (29:36):
I'm sure it'll continue to be lumpy and bumpy in the
future.
This has definitely taught methat life is never going to
plan.
Leisa Reichelt (29:43):
Yeah.
That is very true.
Okay, well thank you so much.
Really appreciate your time.
Nicola (29:47):
Great to chat with you.
Leisa Reichelt (29:48):
Many thanks again to Nicola for sharing her
story, and I hope there wassomething in there that
resonated with you.
I've put a link to How to KeepHouse While Drowning the book
that Nicola recommended in theepisode notes.
And I've also put links toSchool Can't Australia, where
you can access many more SchoolCan't resources, including
information about the parentsupport group.
If you found this podcasthelpful, please do take a moment
(30:10):
to subscribe, give us a ratingor a review.
These things really help us getthis podcast in front of more
people who have School Can'tkids, and who haven't found our
community and the informationthat we share.
If you've been inspired byNicola and would love to share
your own lived experience withthe community, please do drop me
an email toschoolcantpodcast@gmail.com.
(30:31):
It is such a relaxed process.
Anyone could do it, and I wouldlove to hear from you.
If you are a parent or carer inAustralia and feeling
distressed, please remember youcan always call the Parent
Helpline in your state.
A link with the number to callis in the episode notes.
Thank you again for listening.
We'll talk again soon.
Take care.
Hello and welcome to the School Can't
Experience Podcast.
I'm Leisa Reichelt, and thispodcast is brought to you by the
School Can't Australiacommunity.
Caring for a young person who'sstruggling to attend school can
be a stressful and isolatingexperience, but you are not
alone.
Thousands of parents acrossAustralia and many more around
the world face similarchallenges and experiences every
(00:27):
day.
Today we are joined by SchoolCan't mum, Nicola.
Nicola's been on a journey withher family, including two young
people who have struggled toattend school.
In today's episode, Nicola'sgoing to take us on the journey
that she and her family havebeen on, and in particular the
learning and the mindset shiftsthat she's experienced along the
way.
A quick content warning.
(00:48):
This episode does discuss somesensitive topics including the
mention of a suicide attempt, soplease take care when listening.
Here's Nicola's story.
Welcome, Nicola.
Thank you so much for joining uson our podcast today.
Nicola (01:00):
Lovely to be here.
Leisa Reichelt (01:02):
Well, let's get started by just getting a little
bit of context around you andyour family, Nicola.
What can help us understand alittle bit more about you?
Nicola (01:11):
I am mum two, two lovely humans, teenagers now, I was
always, a academically broughtup, a lot of value was placed
the importance of education mykids seemed to be quite bright.
And so I thought, yes, theywill, they will go on and, and
have their choice of whatevertheir future might hold.
(01:31):
know, they, they'll be able topick their path.
then we had COVID and lockdownsand during that time was eldest
hit high school.
seemed to be really strugglingand we weren't quite sure what
was going on school seemed tobe, big part of it.
So we reduced a whole lot ofdemands, they still continued to
struggle.
Fast forward another couple ofyears and then my youngest is
(01:52):
due to start high school and,and then they also started
struggle to attend.
had uh, three or four years oneor the other, or both at the
same time, attending mostpart-time, sometimes not at all.
Leisa Reichelt (02:07):
So Nicola, if you use the benefit of hindsight
and go back in time and hunt forthe earliest signs that things
might not go the way that you'dthought.
What do you think were theearliest clues?
Nicola (02:21):
Gosh, it's hard to know.
the full benefit of hindsightand, you as many of us did
getting diagnoses ofneurodiversity during and post
COVID, think that might have, ifI had have known that back then,
that might've tipped me off.
back then my eldest hadundiagnosed celiac So they were
(02:42):
just tired all the time and werelike, well, you're tired.
Maybe you should sleep more oreat better or do something
different.
Uh, and in primary school theywere doing great academically
and all the teachers loved them.
And at 90% of the, the problemsthat they were facing, which
were few and far between, wereall around connections with
people.
(03:03):
They would form really strongbonds.
And then over time asfriendships do, in early days,
sort of would change andfracture and move my oldest
would butt heads with somepeople or be quite judgmental.
And if I, had of known what Iknow now, that would've been a
sign that their neurodiversitywas, making it hard for them to
be in that kind formal schoolenvironment.
(03:24):
might've approached things a didifferently, but I don't know
how, because school is school.
can't you change too much ofthat environment.
Um, next set of signs was theeven post celiac diagnosis, they
were still low energy and reallystruggling every single day.
were pursuing diagnoses andtrying looking for things there.
(03:46):
were also at to live our livesand do all the things and
support all the people.
And, and if I had known where wewere gonna end up, then
would've, would've stoppedearlier because You You
relationship with my kids wasjust so difficult.
whole journey has really broughtback to me that, we want the
(04:07):
world for our children and wewanna offer them and push them
and encourage them get past youboundaries of what they can see,
because we have more livedexperience than them we know
what our kids are capable of.
Our number one job is, is to bethere love them.
And when you can sense thattrusting, loving relationship,
(04:29):
just constantly being worn downby the demands of day-to-day
life, a sign that something'sreally wrong.
And I think that's really whereI would've noticed that, that
things were just, we needed todo something else.
Leisa Reichelt (04:44):
So you mentioned that general kind of tiredness
that maybe the Celiac diseasecould have explained, but even
with that diagnosis, that didn'tgo away, every day, all the
time, they're just saying, I'mtired.
I'm tired, I'm tired.
Nicola (04:58):
Tired.
My body hurts.
know, they would sort of dothings the minimum they could
get away with or just try not todo it at all.
dealing with early teenagershere.
They're known for being a littleself-involved and a, you little
self-centered, and maybe alittle lazy, as a quite old
teenager that I am still on theinside, I would love to not do
(05:21):
all the jobs that I have to do.
And so you misread the signals.
You are like, oh, you're tellingme you're tired, but that's just
an excuse and you should suck itup and clean your room.
so yeah, you, know, we go aroundand making these assumptions
because we don't know that lifecould be any other way.
And it's only since coming onthis journey that I've
(05:43):
discovered School Can't is evena thing
Leisa Reichelt (05:47):
What was that journey like for you?
So you go from like,'cause Imean, I have a son who's very
much the same, right?
He's like always tired all thetime.
And I very much was the same.
I'm just like, we're all tired.
Suck it up.
Let's get on with it.
How did you get to a differentmindset on this?
What was your path?
Nicola (06:06):
Very slow.
We cut back on a whole bunch ofextracurricular activities.
We had that raft of headache,stomach ache, things that are
You signs and symptoms of yourcentral nervous system not
working properly, very difficultto validate through you medical
expertise when you're lookingfor a medical explanation of why
(06:27):
is my child generally unwell?
all came to a head when myeldest ended up, we were having
one too many arguments abouttheir phone use.
ended up in hospital, after anattempted overdose, which
thankfully was you self-reportedand we got them help.
(06:47):
and It showed that, you had beena significant trust rupture.
Like kids that age, don't gothese actions lightly.
They do it if they think that isno hope.
There's nobody in their cornerwho can support them.
From there, you sort ramped upvarious supports.
already engaged a psychologist.
(07:07):
Tried looking at some othermedical stuff.
And so hence the, theneurodiversity diagnosis.
then they were still continuingto struggle and, became apparent
that we just weren't going tomake their normal high school
work.
then went to online schoolpart-time.
(07:28):
was you not too muchinteraction.
Really small class sizes,headphones, better sort protocol
'cause when you're online,people don't tend to all talk at
once.
managed about two to three weeksof that.
Then we were like, okay, thisthis is still not working.
Let's just take a big break.
(07:48):
We'll take a term off.
Explore some other things thatmight be going on and see
whether we can get some supportsback on board you want to start
year 10.
of Of course you this sounds allvery neat and orderly, but like
a duck on the top of the waterunderneath mum's feet are
swimming like mad.
Leisa Reichelt (08:09):
Yeah.
Nicola (08:09):
Because in time I'd been busy researching home education,
which scared the daylights outof me but turned out to be not
scary at all because there's awonderful Home Education Network
and they were very reassuring.
And I attended some webinars andI thought, actually, no, can do
this.
It doesn't have to look likeformal schooling.
This is amazing.
I can researching, other peoplegoing through this.
(08:30):
That That's when I came acrossSchool Australia.
really liked the framing ofeverything.
It's not school refusal, andusing that meant that have good
conversations with school, otherexternal support people.
Leisa Reichelt (08:44):
What was going on for you, Nicola?
Because I imagine that inaddition to doing all of this
research work and working withthe school and getting your head
around the idea of homeeducation, you probably had
other stuff going on as well.
You are working through all ofthis or trying to?
Nicola (09:04):
I was a chief of staff, for an Australian email company.
We had, 50, 60 employees acrossthe States and India and
Australia.
Leisa Reichelt (09:14):
That sounds very demanding.
Nicola (09:15):
I just couldn't manage the stress of the kids at home
and the demands of the jobsimultaneously.
and so something had to give.
Leisa Reichelt (09:23):
Can you give us a bit of a sense of what a day
in the life was like back inthis peak time when you were
working full time in this bigjob and you had all the stuff
going on at home as well.
What was that like?
Nicola (09:36):
There was a lot of guilt.
It was post pandemic, so we weresupposed to be in the office,
not full time, butsemi-regularly.
I didn't feel like I had theenergy to do that or the, social
capacity.
There were times where I got onthe train and got halfway in and
then got off the train and wentback home again because it
seemed too much to fit it in.
(09:57):
I was still juggling my workstuff, but I was taking these
breaks all the time because Ihad to, you know, ferry a child
to an appointment or go andcheck on them and make sure they
were okay or get on the phone toresearch things or make
appointments or talk to theschool Half of my brain at all
times was sitting there going,what are we gonna do next?
(10:18):
So I think I've researched everyschool in Victoria where I live,
looked at so many differentexternal supports, to see which
one might work for my child,researching home education.
Where could I find a supportgroup that my kid might go to,
to form new friends.
Talking to friends and familywho would give me well-meaning,
(10:41):
but unhelpful tips.
There was housework and makingdinner.
My husband was working at thesame time too.
And, and so there was a lot ofjuggle.
And then a lot of, you know, Ihad plenty of mental health
things, so I had appointments togo to, And just, not enough
sleep.
My whole body was likephysically vibrating from time
to time just'cause of the degreeof stress.
(11:03):
And I thought, this is, this hasgot to change.
So I actually resigned from myjob.
I couldn't do that jobpart-time.
so I thought, I need a, a totalbreak and let's, let's try and
get the family back on track.
And now, three years later orwhatever it is, I'm working one
day a week.
and that's, I think, the mostthat I can manage.
And that's having come to termsand be at peace with my eldest
(11:26):
not doing any kind of formalschooling.
Leisa Reichelt (11:31):
How has that been for you, giving up that
career and leaning into this newlifestyle?
Nicola (11:38):
It has been years of grief It's not one big lump of
grief, it's about 60 lumps ofgrief.
The first one is, why is thiseven happening?
My kids are really unhappy andI'm really unhappy, and this is
not the life that I wanted forme and them, and so something
has to change.
(11:58):
The life that I thought we wouldhave is not what we're gonna
have.
Then I would fasten on the nextplan of whatever it might be,
whether that was, you know, weare gonna try a different
therapist, or we're gonna try adifferent school, changing the
hours or we're gonna try nothaving to wear school uniform.
and every time.
was like, yeah, okay, this ishopefully gonna work.
(12:18):
And then it didn't, then I haveto go back to the drawing board
and try again.
it went from, maybe we're doingVCE Unscored.
Well maybe we are doing VCEUnscored part-time.
Maybe gonna do VET, maybe we'regonna do this, that and the
other.
Maybe we're gonna do it online.
What if we don't do any highschool at all?
(12:40):
Each one of these things, it gotto the point where every time it
happened, there'd be anotherbout of grief and loss and like,
where I thought we were goingversus where we ended up.
Became an expert on the 9,000different ways that you can get
into tertiary.
In my day there was just the bigfront door that 90% of the
(13:00):
people who wanted to do tertiarywould go through.
there was maybe a little sidedoor for mature age and some
sort of special considerationpeople.
And now there's, you know, 15different doors.
And yes, you know, the maindoors are still the main doors,
but there maybe 50% of people gothrough that now'cause there's
so many other pathways.
And so was quite reassuring thenwhen I finally said, right,
(13:23):
we're gonna withdraw and enrollin homeschooling.
Plenty of anxiety still.
I thought, my husband and myfamily would kick up a lot of
fuss over, how could you, whatdoes that look like?
Gosh, you must be spending allof your day teaching your child
algebra.
I'm like, no, we're not doingthat.
That is, you know, that would,that would end us the worst
(13:44):
place possible.
You know, the best thing that Ican do is be there emotionally
for my child so that they alwaysknow that home is safe.
Trying to teach them algebrawill, you know, that's a
terrible plan.
I can't be their mother andtheir teacher, given that school
is so uncomfortable for them.
Leisa Reichelt (13:59):
And that relationship is so important.
Nicola (14:02):
It is.
So, yeah, it's been grief,grief, grief, grief, grief.
And then suddenly when I stoppedpushing so hard, I went, all
right, well, we're gonna gohomeschooling.
And just kind of go withwhatever my kid has capacity
for.
It was this amazing sense ofrelief.
And suddenly home life got lessstressful.
(14:23):
I had more brain back to dothings for myself, but also for
the household.
And it was around then that myyoungest was like, well, maybe I
could reengage with school.
I had to line up a bunch ofsupports for them too.
But just, all around that time,everything just started to come
together.
I, I cannot tell you how greatthat was after years of so much
(14:50):
stress.
I mean, there's still a lot ofemotion tied up in that, do I
think that, I could have donemore.
I mean, uh, we're a parent, wealways feel like we've failed
our children in some way.
Leisa Reichelt (15:03):
How do you feel about you and where your life
has turned out now?
Nicola (15:07):
I still carry that grief for the life that I thought I
was gonna have and the one thatI've ended up with now.
I accessed Carer Gateway, otherthings going in my life that
also added to my carer load.
I was like, I would like carercounseling because I think a lot
of the stuff that I've got goingon relates to that role as a
carer.
I wanted someone with particularexpertise in what is it like
(15:30):
being a support system,particularly for your child.
and it, you know, impacts onyour life and, you end up with
all these complicated emotionsthat you feel guilty about.
Like, why am I frustrated withhaving to support my kid this
way?
Or I know why I am frustrated,but what do I do with this
emotion?
can I turn it into somethingthat's productive instead?
(15:52):
My frustration with thesituation is actually, you know,
unpacked.
I'm like, well, this is whatenables me to keep going and
keep advocating for my kid andkeep looking for supports that
might work because the story isnot yet finished.
That frustration with where weare now is actually helping me
keep us going towards somethingthat might be better, rather
(16:14):
than just throwing up our handsand saying, well, this is what
we've got now and we are stuckhere.
Leisa Reichelt (16:20):
You mentioned, when you were talking at home
education that you, you mighthave gotten a little bit of, of
challenge potentially fromfriends and family and maybe
husband.
how, how much have you and yourpartner been on the same page
through this journey?
Has that been a challengingthing?
Nicola (16:38):
We are two people who've been married for quite a while.
You spend enough time with anyone person and you end up having
some differences of opinion.
He was less involved with thekids' day-to-day experiences,
and he was not going to all ofthese appointments and talking
to psychologists and the school.
I was carrying all of that in myhead and he would only see the
(17:03):
behavior that was visible athome.
He was sort of following alongtwo months behind where my
thinking was.
We had the occasional chat whereI said I understand that you are
frustrated and I have not beenpassing on as much of this
information to you as maybe Ishould have, but here's where we
are now and we can't do thatthing that you want us to do
(17:24):
because these are the reasonswhy, So, I would have to catch
him up.
Leisa Reichelt (17:27):
it's a job in and of itself, isn't it?
educating other people who havequestions about why things are
going the way that they're goingand you spend so much time
intensely trying to understandall of these things people might
think you're just sitting aroundplaying on Facebook, they don't
understand all the work thatyou're doing, it's kind of
invisible work a lot of thetime, and then you have to bring
(17:48):
everybody else on the journey.
It's a pain really, isn't it?
It's like just one more thing.
Nicola (17:52):
You do, you're running around and looking for
information, for understanding,for something that helps it all
make sense.
I've learned a lot now about thecentral nervous system, the
psychology of humans, young andold, about a whole bunch of
physical things due to thesituation with one kid and then
me and then the other kid, andall the rest of it.
(18:13):
So, you know, I'm an amateur Idon't know, biologist, human
biology, psychology, centralnervous system
Leisa Reichelt (18:20):
Hmm.
Nicola (18:21):
we've got so many people now involved in the care team,
and I'm the person who has topull it all together because
these conditions are comorbid.
I'd sit there and say, well, wetried doing this, but we
couldn't because of thissymptom, which is tied to this,
but we're actually seeing youare over here.
it's all related because X, Y,and Z.
People are like, all you seem todo all day is sit on the
(18:41):
computer and hang around.
I'm like, that's because I amresearching, looking up
scientific papers that explainwhy these things are all
related, and how they impact mychild on a day-to-day basis.
And therefore, what supports wecould use or access or try, but,
when I found good resources,then I would save them and share
them with people to say, look,it's not just me, it's not my
(19:05):
kid being obnoxious.
Leisa Reichelt (19:07):
Amazing.
I would love to hear a littlebit about your experience of
home education.
You said that you started offbeing scared of it and then you
envisaged that it was like youwalking around the dining table
lecturing on algebra.
you've come to a differentunderstanding of it.
Can you talk to me a little bitabout how you and your child are
(19:30):
doing home education, what yourapproach is and how that's
working.
Nicola (19:34):
Helpfully the Home Education Network had a lot of
resources to showcase differentkinds of plans that you put
forward to the government tosay, I promise I have thought
about these eight areas that youbelieve are important to young
humans development andacademically and so, I was
(19:55):
looking at those and going, youcan apply for exemptions in
certain subjects.
My child is unwell.
We definitely cannot cover allof this thing.
What are their interests?
Well, they're currentlyinterested in sewing and anime.
I said, right, we're gonna getgrandma involved and we're gonna
do a sewing project, and that'llcover us for maths and it'll
(20:15):
cover us for arts and crafts.
And well, they're seeing allthese medical specialists, so
that's covering us for scienceand human development.
You mean home education can justbe doing stuff that my child is
interested in and then tying itback to these subjects.
Can it really be that simple?
Plus, applying for exemptions,for whatever reason works for
(20:36):
you.
I'd send it off to the HomeEducation Network people and
they said, yes, this looksgreat.
And I sent it off to thegovernment and they wrote back
and said, yes, this looks great.
Have we done a lot of the thingsthat I had in the plan?
No, because we keep uncoveringnew diagnoses and so the
capacity that we've got totackle these things has been
reduced.
(20:57):
And that's okay too.
Like how much of a relief isthat, that the government says,
we know that plans change andyou're not gonna get in trouble
if you don't do the things thatyou put in your plan.
If you get audited, we'd justlike to know that you have not
just stared at YouTube all day.
Leisa Reichelt (21:13):
Lots to learn on YouTube.
Nicola (21:15):
but like maybe 16 hours a day of YouTube is a few too
many.
Leisa Reichelt (21:20):
Sometimes I think we do 16 hours of YouTube
in this house, so I'm not one tojudge.
You kind of started off right atthe beginning of this talking
about how, you came into thiswhole experience as somebody
from quite an academicbackground who really valued
academics and all that kind ofthing.
and now obviously the approachthat you're taking with your
(21:40):
eldest is very much not alignedwith what you had experienced
and maybe what you expected, howhave you gotten your head around
that to a point where you canfeel satisfied?
Nicola (21:56):
That's a question and a half.
Leisa Reichelt (21:59):
Sorry,
Nicola (22:01):
we spoke about those stages of grief because the
future is uncertain and, Despitethe fact that knowing, you know,
whether you wanna go intotertiary or get a job or
whatever it is, you don't haveto have that tick at the end of
your high school journey inorder to do any of those things.
In some respects it leaves, itleaves everything so wide open.
(22:25):
But my kid is still so unwell,I'm like, I don't, I don't know
what the future holds for themand, and that, that still leaves
me with anxiety.
I don't know what they, whatthey're gonna be capable of
doing.
I do know that when they decidewhat it is, if we can help them
get there, they'll be amazing atit.
But at the moment, that justseems so far away.
(22:49):
for my youngest, I've realizedthrough all of this, I'm like,
do you know what?
The marks don't matter.
That has been a big relief andit makes me, feel sad for the
young anxious me who put in somuch effort to try and do the
best I could possibly do.
it didn't matter whether I got a92 or a 52, I passed the
subject.
(23:09):
I'm running around telling mynieces and nephews and everybody
else who, who will listen.
I'm like, do you know what?
Trying to get to the end of year12.
The school has to put a lot ofemphasis on it.
'cause a lot of their funding istied to it.
They really want you to get thebest results that you can.
And you know, your parents areon your case to try and get you
(23:30):
to study and do all the thingsthat you need to do.
But it's like being pregnant andeverybody's focused on the
birth, but, what they can'teducate you with when you're
pregnant is what is the next 20,30, 40, 50 years like as a
parent, less
Leisa Reichelt (23:46):
Yeah.
Nicola (23:47):
few weeks, and I feel that, finishing off high school
is a bit the same.
Everybody's focused on gettingto that final number or whatever
it is that might look like forthe end of your schooling, but
nobody looks at that.
whatever your next step is,nobody looks at it again.
Leisa Reichelt (24:03):
Yeah, you're so right.
I think the other thing that Ireally learned from talking to
the home education network folkas well is that it doesn't all
have to be done by the timeyou're 18.
We have this false deadline thatyou have to have all of this
done by the time you're 18.
And then it's like, game over.
Can't do that anymore.
And it's like, you can take aslong as you need to get through
this stage and work out what'snext,
Nicola (24:23):
you
Leisa Reichelt (24:23):
there's no rush.
Nicola (24:25):
until you finish your high schooling at age 38.
If you, if that's where you'reat and you're like, I regret not
having finished my thing.
Well, you can go back at 38 andfinish We've got huge amounts of
flexibility You know, we've gotso many options now, But for me
to suddenly go, do you knowwhat, I don't care about the
marks.
Which has been a interestingjourney for me psychologically
(24:48):
to sit there, you know, assomeone to whom, strong
academics was such a core piecegrowing up.
having another viewpoint, hastaken a lot of time and a lot of
reading, and a lot of justsitting with what it that I want
for my child?
and I would much
Leisa Reichelt (25:04):
Yeah.
Nicola (25:05):
have, someone who is curious and interested in the
world and, knows that they cancome and chat to me about
anything.
I'd much rather have that childthan the one who is miserable,
grumpy, angry.
We can't communicate'cause everytime we're communicating, we are
fighting My role as a parent isto ensure their safety long term
(25:27):
and to create the, you know,person who can function as
independently as they can.
And I, I can only do that ifthey know that I will always be
there for them and that I alwayslove them and, and they're,
worthwhile as a human and I'malways gonna be there for them.
now that they're a bit older,we're gonna talk about what
matters to them and how I canhelp them get there,
Leisa Reichelt (25:49):
lovely.
Nicola, I might move us onto ourlast couple of questions, if
that's okay.
So if you could go back in timeand tell earlier Nicola
something, when would you goback to him?
What do you think you'd tellyourself?
Nicola (26:05):
I mean, I'd almost go back to when I was pregnant and
panicking about would we be goodenough parents?
And I'd say, it'll be okay.
the most important thing you cando as a parent is to have that
strong connection When you areworking together and got that
trust with one another, you canmake it through the obstacles.
(26:25):
Life is not smooth and easy.
it's okay and life's definitelynot gonna look like the way you
thought it will.
If you focus on that trust bond,then it'll be okay.
Leisa Reichelt (26:37):
That's your priority.
Focus on the trust bond.
If you could tell everybodywho's listening, who's going
through their own School Can'texperience right now, one thing,
what would you want everybody toknow?
Nicola (26:51):
I mean, again, it's gotta be that whole thing where
you are connecting with yourkid.
In so many support groups onFacebook and elsewhere, I see so
many people in the School Can'texperience searching for a way
that will help them get theirkid to school.
How do I get them to school?
How do I, tell the school what Ineed?
(27:13):
How do I school?
And it's really school focused Iwould love for there to be a
shift in the conversation to howdo I support my child so that
it's not about the school, it'sabout my child.
I think would make all of usfeel a lot less stressed.
Unfortunately, our whole cultureis centered on the fact that,
when you're a certain age, youmust be at school.
(27:33):
We put a lot of pressure onourselves.
There are so many options nowand school doesn't have to look
the way we are taught that ithas to look so, focus on your
kid'cause any other process ismadness.
Like you, you'll go mad.
Leisa Reichelt (27:49):
And then finally, if there was one
resource that stands out thatyou think people would.
benefit from knowing about, whatwould you recommend?
Nicola (27:59):
Interestingly, it's a book that's nominally about
housework called How to KeepHouse While Drowning.
a very dear friend sent it tome.
And it does not come with, youknow, you've had to organize
your laundry basket to make thateasy.
It is about, teaching you thatchores are morally neutral and
(28:20):
so you're not a bad person ifyou don't have your house
looking a certain way.
It doesn't make you good or badperson.
if a job is worth doing, you canhalf do it.
and suddenly that made sense tome because, you know, whether it
was, I don't have time or theenergy to do a full load of
dishes, so I'm gonna scrub thefry pan and.
(28:42):
two saucepans because that'swhat we use and the rest will
have to wait.
But that also worked for me forthe school journey too, to say,
well, I'd love for my kid to beback at school full time, if all
we can manage right now is oneperiod.
It's okay to say, well, if oneperiod's what we can manage,
then one period is what we'lltry to do.
Leisa Reichelt (29:03):
Yes.
Taking the burden of judgment ofourselves is a huge thing, isn't
it?
Nicola (29:07):
and giving yourselves so much compassion because we're
trying to juggle it all.
And we think of ourselves asfailing if we are not able to
juggle it all, and sometimeslife just, that's too much in
one bucket.
Leisa Reichelt (29:22):
Nicola, thank you so much for sharing your
journey.
I'm really pleased that you areable to get through those
difficult times and transitioninto a place where things are
working for your kids and yourfamily And better for you as
well
Nicola (29:36):
I'm sure it'll continue to be lumpy and bumpy in the
future.
This has definitely taught methat life is never going to
plan.
Leisa Reichelt (29:43):
Yeah.
That is very true.
Okay, well thank you so much.
Really appreciate your time.
Nicola (29:47):
Great to chat with you.
Leisa Reichelt (29:48):
Many thanks again to Nicola for sharing her
story, and I hope there wassomething in there that
resonated with you.
I've put a link to How to KeepHouse While Drowning the book
that Nicola recommended in theepisode notes.
And I've also put links toSchool Can't Australia, where
you can access many more SchoolCan't resources, including
information about the parentsupport group.
If you found this podcasthelpful, please do take a moment
(30:10):
to subscribe, give us a ratingor a review.
These things really help us getthis podcast in front of more
people who have School Can'tkids, and who haven't found our
community and the informationthat we share.
If you've been inspired byNicola and would love to share
your own lived experience withthe community, please do drop me
an email toschoolcantpodcast@gmail.com.
(30:31):
It is such a relaxed process.
Anyone could do it, and I wouldlove to hear from you.
If you are a parent or carer inAustralia and feeling
distressed, please remember youcan always call the Parent
Helpline in your state.
A link with the number to callis in the episode notes.
Thank you again for listening.
We'll talk again soon.
Take care.
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