August 11, 2025 • 31 mins
In this episode of the School Can't Experience Podcast, host Leisa Reichelt is joined by South Australian parents Kate and Daniel, who discuss their experiences caring for three neurodivergent children, two of whom they are currently home educating.
They share their challenges with the traditional school system, the transition to home education, the realities of day to day life and low demand parenting, and strategies they use to support their children's learning and wellbeing.
Kate and Daniel share candidly the complexities of home educating neurodiverse young people who have experienced school trauma, whilst balancing the challenges of societal expectations, and the importance of leaning on community support.
00:00 Introduction to the School Can't Experience Podcast
00:19 Meet Kate and Daniel: South Australian Parents
02:13 Early Signs and Diagnosis
03:42 The Struggles of Traditional Schooling
05:27 Transition to Home Education
08:58 Daily Life and Challenges of Home Education
19:44 The Emotional and Social Impact on Parents
26:19 Reflections and Advice for Other Parents
30:38 Conclusion and Resources
Recommended Resources
- Home Education Network website: https://home-ed.vic.edu.au/
- Home Educaton Network on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HomeEducationNetwork
- School Can’t Australia Facebook Community - https://www.facebook.com/groups/schoolphobiaschoolrefusalaustralia
- Make a donation to School Can’t Australia - https://www.schoolcantaustralia.com.au/get-involved
If you are a parent of carer in Australia and experiencing distress, please call Lifeline on 13 11 14 or contact the Parent Help Line. - https://kidshelpline.com.au/parents/issues/how-parentline-can-help-you
You can contact us to volunteer to share your School Can't story or some feedback via email on schoolcantpodcast@gmail.com
Disclaimer
The content of this podcast is based on personal lived experiences and is shared for informational and storytelling purposes only. It should not be treated as medical, psychological, or professional advice under any circumstances. If you have concerns about your health or well-being, please seek guidance from a doctor, therapist, or other qualified professional.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Leisa Reichelt (00:05):
Hello and welcome to the School Can't
Experience Podcast.
I'm Leisa Reichelt, and thispodcast is brought to you by the
School Can't Australiacommunity.
Caring for a young person who isstruggling to attend school can
be a stressful and isolatingexperience, but you are not
alone.
Thousands of parents acrossAustralia and many more around
the world face similarchallenges and experiences every
(00:26):
day.
Today we have our first everSchool Can't Experience parental
double act with Kate and Daniel,who are South Australian parents
of three neurodiverse children,two of whom they're currently
home educating.
While both Kate and Daniel arefull-time carers.
They're supporting the familyback to wellness, engagement,
and learning.
I hope you enjoy their story.
(00:48):
Alright.
Well welcome Daniel and Kate toour podcast.
Thank you so much for taking thetime to join us today.
Daniel & Kate (00:54):
Thanks for having us.
Yeah, thank you.
Leisa Reichelt (00:56):
Absolute pleasure.
Just to get us started, maybeyou can give us just a little
bit of, uh, background into likeyou and your family.
Who's who, where are you?
What's what, what's going on inlife?
Daniel & Kate (01:08):
So yeah, there's five of us.
I'm late diagnosed autisticwoman.
Also I think probably PDA orADHD.
And we've got threeneurodivergent children.
So, Autistic PDAs, uh, probablysome ADHD thrown in there too.
The ages are 18, 14 and 11.
Youngest two are doing homeeducation after various periods
(01:34):
of School Can't.
Yeah, we've got a dog, crazy dogand a cat and yeah, we live in
South Australia.
Leisa Reichelt (01:42):
And you are both kinda stay at home carers right
now.
Daniel & Kate (01:46):
Yeah.
Leisa Reichelt (01:47):
What were you in previous lives?
Daniel & Kate (01:49):
Yeah.
So I was working full time upuntil 2023.
I was managing a virtual realityarcade.
Prior to that I was a geologist.
Bit of work and doing a PhD inthat.
Prior to kids, I was a socialworker, when my eldest was
young, um, and then kind ofoutta the workforce, having
(02:09):
babies, raising babies.
Leisa Reichelt (02:11):
If you look back.
Through your kids' lives and youthink with the power of
hindsight, what were theearliest signs of maybe what was
to come?
What do you go back to?
Daniel & Kate (02:21):
Well, the one that is probably not the
earliest one, but the one thatjumps out to me is just one day
in year one or reception, theteacher just sort of pulling us
aside and saying, oh, maybe lookat an educational assessment for
them.
I mean, there would've beenmeltdowns in supermarkets and
all kinds of things before that.
(02:42):
But that was the moment where webegan the actual journey towards
diagnosis and then making senseof everything that came before
it.
Leisa Reichelt (02:52):
Hmm.
Daniel & Kate (02:53):
For me it was a lot earlier.
Probably a middle one was alwaysquirky and creative and
expressive.
And I remember not ever thinkingabout the autism stuff because I
wasn't very informed about beingautistic or autism or anything
neurodivergent back then., But Ijust always thought, oh, they're
(03:13):
really quirky and, um, creativeand, you know, wouldn't answer
to their name if they wereplaying being horse or something
you know, And with our youngest,it was.
He was always just very, verysensitive, very expressive, very
creative, and lots of, um,separation anxiety too, which
now I go, well, all of thatmakes so much sense, but you
(03:36):
know, you only know what youknow
Leisa Reichelt (03:40):
Learn a lot on the way through, don't you?
Daniel & Kate (03:41):
Yeah.
Leisa Reichelt (03:42):
Let's hear a little bit about what school
can't look like for your family.
Daniel & Kate (03:45):
Probably towards the end of 2023, our middle
child really struggled withschool.
leading into 2024.
It became a case of what can wedo?
'cause we can't do schoolanymore, I really felt like
school was breaking both ofthem.
(04:06):
So it became, the schools,didn't know what to do in the
end really either.
They weren't coming up with anyoptions that were safe.
We really felt pushed into acorner where we had to take the
kids out for their ownwellbeing.
Their demeanor and outlook justgot so internalized and quiet
(04:30):
They got very quiet and itbecame a place of nothing good
can come from this becausethey're retreating more and more
we need to protect them and carefor them.
We didn't have anyone supportingus going, yeah, this is
something that happens.
It honestly felt like we werejust trying to fight our own
(04:53):
path and also trying to, youknow, be a family in a world
that doesn't understand, youknow, we're still coming to
terms with who's neurodivergent,who's autistic, who's PDA, who's
really struggling at the moment.
And it seemed like we all were,so, just so messy.
(05:15):
Yeah.
So I felt like, getting them toschool was just this battle that
became intense and traumatic.
I just thought no, we have tostop this.
Leisa Reichelt (05:26):
Mm-hmm.
Daniel & Kate (05:27):
so then it became like I did one of the Home
Education Network, seminarsabout Home Ed.
That kind of opened my eyesgoing, oh God, there's people
who are going through similarthings who understand how
intense this is.
That was a real eyeopener to gowhat you think home education
(05:51):
is, which, I guess it's quite amainstream view and prejudiced
against this is like, oh, it's abit of a cult thing and we just
wanted to be normal.
We wanted kids to go to schoolus to be able to work, everyone
to have their semblance ofindependence or growing whatever
that looks like in a mainstreamway.
And we can't do that right now.
That's not how our life is.
(06:11):
There was a lot of readjustmentsin our thinking, which we still
struggling to do a lot of thetime.
I mean, you know, what's normalin our world is very, you're
kind of brainwashed intothinking what normality is and,
our family doesn't subscribe tothat, I guess too, in lots of
ways.
So, yeah.
Leisa Reichelt (06:33):
It is challenging though, isn't it?
Because even when you know thisin your head from, learning and
recognizing it.
Still in everyday life thatintense socialization that
you've had and the world thatyou live in makes it hard, I
think, every day to feel ahundred percent comfortable and
(06:53):
confident in the differentlifestyle.
Daniel & Kate (06:56):
Yeah, definitely.
Leisa Reichelt (06:58):
Mm-hmm.
Daniel & Kate (06:59):
it's very messy and continues to be very messy
like you're talking about thereviewer from the Home Ed review
we had, which was a month, sixweeks ago.
I actually wrote her an emailafterwards because she was so
lovely and I'd heard, you know,really inconsistent feedback of
(07:19):
other people's experiences, andwe got, we just got really
lucky.
So I wrote her an email, youknow, a couple weeks after and
just said you are the firstperson in the education system I
just said to her in this emailthat, you're the first person
who I've felt believed by, whichseems ridiculous because, you
(07:43):
know, we've been in theeducation system with our kids
since 2010?
so that's a long time and I feltshe was the first person at
least in the last couple years,that believed us and gave us
time to talk about all ourchallenges and all the context
(08:05):
of our life.
So, Most of my report most of myreport was context of,
everyone's, differentcapacities, the burnout, the
trauma from school.
People believe what's happening,but maybe they also believe that
there's other solutions and thatwith different actions it can be
(08:26):
resolved.
So they're not denying that it'shappening to us and to the
children, But.
Is that because you're not doingit this way or that way?
Yeah.
You don't fully grasp howall-encompassing, the situation
is.
There was a lot of gaslighting,like, well, if you just tried
this, and the assumption is thatthey can still get there if you
(08:48):
just tried different options orif you came up with magical new
options or if you pushed themharder or something.
Leisa Reichelt (08:56):
Yeah, if you were stricter.
Daniel & Kate (08:57):
yeah.
Leisa Reichelt (08:58):
Yeah.
I'd really love to hear aboutthis first year of home
education.
I'm slightly self investedbecause I am in my first six
months of it.
Something that you said earlier,Daniel, about, you know, just
that stress of homeschooling.
I think on the podcast we'veheard a lot of people were like,
oh, you know, and then weswitched to homeschooling and
then everything, oh, I can justrelax and everything was fine.
Daniel & Kate (09:20):
Hmm.
Leisa Reichelt (09:20):
I like the fact that I don't have to stress
every morning and every nightabout getting my kid to school,
but now I stress pretty much 247.
Like there's, it is not an outof school time when I can stop
stressing.
Now I'm stressing all the time
Daniel & Kate (09:35):
yeah,
Leisa Reichelt (09:35):
that I'm not doing enough or not doing the
right things that we should bedoing more or better or
different and I am a little bitscared about what's gonna
happen.
I've got somebody coming back,in a few months to have a look
at everything that we'veachieved.
I'm just like, I don't thinkit's what she's gonna be
expecting based on, you know,when she came to see us the
first time around.
Daniel & Kate (09:54):
yeah, it comes back to that idea of achievement
you mentioned?
at the start, we were expectingeverything to be based on
traditional kind of education,which is how, you know, what,
how much have they read, whatcan they add up now, all that
kind of stuff.
And personally, I was sort ofexpecting that's what we would
(10:14):
have to do too.
I guess for, for me, it's beenjust a, you have to at first
acknowledge what's the capacityand what's the capability?
And once you realize that, okay,well that's what you're working
with, then you start thinkingabout, well, what can we
actually do?
And what is learning gonna looklike within that capacity?
(10:38):
so for us it's been just beavailable, try and, let people
follow interests, fosterinquisitiveness and keep people
feeling regulated and safe, Iguess.
Yeah.
It was a thing of a period whichis kind of ongoing for us, which
(10:59):
is just that deschooling orunschooling.
It was just like, we can't haveany expectations on them and we
still can't.
everything is pretty much, wehave suggestions occasionally,
but you know, there's PDAinvolved too.
Demands, questions orsuggestions often don't work.
Yeah, you needed that period ofdecompression as well, which I
(11:22):
feel like is just our life ingeneral.
We have to do that a lot of thetime anyway.
So yeah, when we finally decidedwe can't do school anymore, we
are going to do Home Ed, it wasa huge, huge relief both for us,
but I think also for the kids aswell I just thought now we need
(11:45):
to not have expectations onthem.
They need to recover in somesense'cause they're all burnt
out and we are burnt out.
In combination with your PDAprofile, we have to be very, low
demand and creative with what weuse as evidence of learning for
the system.
(12:06):
it's our job to kind of, youknow, notice things, put ideas
away, you know, write thingsdown so we can support our kids
to be regulated and recover.
Our job as the parents is tojump through all the hurdles
systemically.
so they can just be ticked offas they're at home.
(12:27):
They're home educating, theydon't have to jump through the
hoops themselves.
yeah, I think we've just had topare everything back and go,
these young people are ourpriority and the system isn't,
we have to negotiate with thesystem.
but what's important is theirwellbeing.
(12:51):
It's unpredictable and messy allthe time.
but that's just our life.
I think it'll be a constantongoing thing.
It's just up and downconstantly.
Leisa Reichelt (13:00):
Well, I find that reassuring.
we certainly have got good weeksand bad weeks here.
You have a good week and you'relike, maybe it's starting to
work and everything's gonna beamazing.
And then you had the next weekas a complete reality check, and
you're like, no, it's just, it'sa bit of a cycle.
Daniel & Kate (13:14):
And for us, I think It's like a moment to
moment, day to day, morningafternoon,, Like my expectations
or what I notice is you can justhave three good moments in a
morning.
And you just got to, be aware ofthose and notice them And then
the afternoon or the eveningmight be a total write off
Leisa Reichelt (13:36):
Yeah.
Daniel & Kate (13:36):
just to note the good moments both for yourself
and for your child, but also, ifthere's something you can tick
off in the home ed to go, oh,they'll learn about that, or
they engaged with that.
Just having low expectationsreally, and then yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Leisa Reichelt (13:51):
Hmm.
Daniel & Kate (13:51):
we talk about like, ticking things off, I
mean, I, I agree and, but Iguess our goal is still for our
kids to learn and, and beeducated.
It's just we are still trying towork out how that is for them,
what does work for them and howthey do learn and get them to a
point where they can.
so yeah, we're not snubbing ournose at, oh, our kids don't need
(14:16):
to be educated in a traditionalway.
We're just trying to find out.
since that doesn't work what,what can we do?
What, what might work?
We're testing all of thoseavenues We've tried to be
specific, we tried a road tripto Melbourne and there were
learning things on that, but itwas also really challenging.
it was really hard.
(14:36):
And so a lot of big meltdownsand really challenging moments.
We did it and it was a learningexperience.
But would we do it again thesame way?
Probably not.
Leisa Reichelt (14:46):
If there's such a thing, what does a typical day
look like for you?
Daniel & Kate (14:50):
It almost feels embarrassing to answer that
question, because at the moment,it's getting out of bed late.
there's a lot of screens We tryto get people to engage with an
activity.
So we try and say, should we gofor a walk Shall we maybe go see
a movie?
Or should we do a Lego set?
We're just really trying toengage with people, around their
(15:14):
interests, but also, like healthstuff So we try to go, we've got
a dog, so we need to take thedog, for a walk every day.
The movies have worked a coupletimes in the last month, which
is great.
to even get out of the house isbrilliant because there's still
a huge amount of anxiety aroundleaving and just not engage with
(15:35):
the idea of leaving the houseeven going in the backyard or,
going down the street.
That's really, really hard.
Leisa Reichelt (15:41):
Yeah.
Daniel & Kate (15:42):
I think even just saying it out loud, it's still
really confronting to say it.
Yeah.
And, that whole concept of whatis learning and luckily our Home
Education reviewer understoodthis, but for example, for our
youngest, they play a lot ofgames and they are learning when
they're playing those.
There's user interfaces andcomputer skills that they're
(16:03):
learning.
And that's really important totoday's world.
At one point he got interestedin a game called Supermarket
Simulator.
Driven by himself, he opened upthis game, started playing it,
and he was, you know, in avirtual world selling customers
items, reordering stock.
Counting up the money that he'dneed giving the correct change.
(16:24):
This is an engagement with mathsthat was totally self-driven by
him.
And he would not have done thatschool, he would not have showed
any interest.
So, certainly we couldn't havetried to teach him that too.
He needs, autonomy and it needsto be interest led.
These things are spontaneous andunpredictable really, aren't
they?
Yeah.
And sort of parking yourexpectation for a while and
(16:45):
going, okay, trusting thatlearning will happen if we are
ready to engage and giveopportunity.
Our our middle child lovesdrawing.
They do so much drawing, hoursand hours of drawing a day.
So we, we enable that.
We, encourage that.
We let them go.
And again, you know, even justby drawing, you're downloading
programs, you're learning newinterfaces of programs.
(17:10):
But the flip side of that iswhen someone says, so what are
they learning at home?
Or what are they doing formaths?
you've gotta find examples likesupermarket simulator, that's
their math.
And I still struggle just withthat.
Um, self-driven as well, thatself critique of what we are
doing.
Yeah.
But I think ultimately, we don'thave a choice at the moment.
(17:31):
We've gotta keep peopleregulated, like Kate said,
that's the number one safe,happy regulated to make them, to
have them in a spot where theycan learn and then provide
opportunities.
That's the best we can do at themoment.
Leisa Reichelt (17:44):
Yeah.
I know you said it's kind ofembarrassing to share, but what
you are describing is so similarto what I'm experiencing here in
our home as well, and I'm surethere are so many other people
who are listening to this whoare also experiencing similar
things.
I really appreciate you sharingit because it does feel very
shameful and it is verydifficult to answer questions
(18:05):
around it.
Daniel & Kate (18:06):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
And even though I know that'swhat our audience is, and they
can understand that when someonesays, what does the typical day
of schooling look for you?
Like, it's sort of like freezeup.
Like, oh, I don't know.
Yeah.
more like what is a typical dayof survival and, and everyone
getting on look like Is reallywhat's happening.
also, from the beginning, Iremember saying this to one of
(18:26):
our psychologists, the priorityis connection and safety And I
know that's a common thing withlots of people in the School
Can't group.
Everything has been traumatizedback to those two points.
and unless, people have beenthrough it, I think it's really
hard to understand how basic ithas to get back down to Like is
(18:53):
often said in the Home EdNetwork, and in the School Can't
group, just'cause people highschool in year 12 or some people
do, doesn't mean your learningstopped.
Humans are dynamic and you learnconstantly all the time.
It's a very capitalist idea andconcept that going to school,
basically nine to five or nineto three, five days a week.
(19:14):
And yeah, that would be great ifour family could fit that But
they are curious, creativepeople and it's easier to buy
into the fear of are we gonna doif they're not at school
anymore.
That is, of course a fear that Ihave.
(19:35):
But I know that they're creativeand curious and, they're natural
learners, humans are naturallearners.
Leisa Reichelt (19:44):
Let's talk a little bit about, you know, you
said before Kate and Daniel aswell, right?
That, you know, we used to be amainstream family and now we're
very much not a mainstreamfamily.
And just that whole transitionof parents with jobs and kids
who went to school to becomingcarers and doing the home
education.
I think Daniel, you talked abouthow that has maybe amplified for
(20:08):
men, maybe more so than women.
Although as a woman, I've gottasay, it hasn't been a fun
journey for me necessarilyeither.
Daniel & Kate (20:14):
Yeah.
Leisa Reichelt (20:14):
can we talk about that a little bit?
Daniel & Kate (20:16):
Firstly, I think, in this space, women take on a
lot more responsibility Wheneverwe engage with the community,
it's almost entirely women.
So when we were trying to getthe kids to school, Kate
actually started up a parentscommittee, liaising with the
school and that was great.
(20:37):
But it was always the mums thatwere there.
So when I mentioned, I thinkit's, difficult for men in the
context of, the socialexpectations of men to even more
so be, be working and, thesocial roles of men and women
(21:00):
and stuff.
I guess for men to help thefamily, and I know everyone's
case is different, but, for somepeople it probably is just to
continue working For me it was,the decision to recognize that
if I keep trying to look forwork and Kate's here their own
with all the, the kids all thetime, that's, we we're gonna end
(21:22):
up somewhere we don't want toend up, really falling apart.
So I had to go, okay, what's themost important thing at the
moment?
Well, it's to be at home and tobe a carer and to be trying
this.
And that I think for men ispretty challenging.
The idea of, know, I'm gonna belike a home dad kind of thing.
Whether you are judged or not.
(21:43):
Every time you describe thatyou're a carer and that you're
not working and, and the kidsdon't get to school, you always
feel judged, even, whether youare being judged or not at that
time.
You feel it.
Well, I do anyway.
Yeah.
And I think lots of people ourage and in our circumstances,
you know, I've got, I hadelderly parents.
(22:04):
I've got your elderly parents aswell.
So there's an element of wheneverything was amping up with
the School Can't, my mum and dadwere both incredibly unwell, so
I was at the hospital nearlyevery day.
You had to kind of step upbecause there was so much caring
and supporting of people to bedone that I couldn't physically
(22:26):
be at the hospital looking aftermy parents, but also be at home.
So, yeah, it was, really intenseAnd distressing, but it all kind
of happened at the same time.
Like you'd probably stoppedworking just before my mum and
dad got really sick.
And that kind of forced itprobably too, in a way the not
(22:47):
looking for another job straightaway and then going, is there
like carer payments we can tryand access And this must be
really tricky for some people.
I know what it was like when Iworking from home as much as I
could and you get some blow backfrom your bosses on that.
And so you're just trying tobalance everything.
(23:07):
But that balance all fell overand I didn't have that job
anymore.
Yeah.
But if I'd been able to keepthat, maybe I could have
stumbled through it, it probablywouldn't have been a good thing.
So in some ways we wereprobably, not fortunate'cause it
was a horrible time.
it, like Kate said, it kind of.
everything to head at one time.
(23:27):
We can't, we actually can't dothis, so what's the alternative
it's also, you know, it is notjust the kids who are
dysregulated and in hugedistress, it's the parents as
well.
Every time I had to try and, youknow, say, well, what's
happening today?
Are we going to school?
And driving them to school?
I'd be in tears breaking downand so distressed plus, all the
(23:51):
other stuff with my parentshappening at the same time.
So it was like, this is gonnaall end really badly if we keep
trying to push this in so manydifferent directions.
It had to come back down tosurvival and what are the
priorities.
Once we made those decisions andsimplified things for us, that
(24:11):
there was another part whichcame in, which was like when
suddenly I had a day wherewasn't quite as stressful and
things were actually working abit better.
There was this voice in the backof my head saying, well, you
should be doing something elsethen, because this is, it's not
that
Leisa Reichelt (24:26):
Yes.
Daniel & Kate (24:27):
This is going a bit easier.
there was this survivor guilt Iremember in a psychology session
talking about this and thinking,just because things, if things
are getting better, not thatthey necessarily are, but if
things do get better, that'sgood.
Enjoy that
Leisa Reichelt (24:45):
Hmm.
Hmm.
Daniel & Kate (24:45):
you know those decisions you've made, if they
make things better we don't haveto complicate it and then go,
well, okay, it's settled now, solet's go back into the fray and
mess things up again.
That idea that, you can moveforward and it can get better
and you shouldn't feel guilty ifit does start to get better in
certain ways.
Not that everything's fixed,but.
(25:05):
the changes can make thingsbetter.
or more manageable.
And that seems like the verymainstream way of how our world
works, that, things seem alittle bit better now, so you
can the mainstream stuff again.
Leisa Reichelt (25:19):
I, I really relate to that, that, as soon as
you start to see signs thatthings are starting to lighten,
you're like, okay, well thismeans then that we should be
capable of doing more.
And whether that's more schoolor whether that's, well, maybe I
should pick up some work, or,wherever the case is.
you are always, feels likeyou're operating from a place of
lack or
Daniel & Kate (25:37):
Yeah,
Leisa Reichelt (25:38):
doing enough, or you're just always feeling like
you're letting someone orsomething down.
And I think at this age too,it's difficult career wise,
isn't it?
Because like, you know, steppingout now is a pretty scary thing
to do, and then we know how manyopportunities can you not take
to step back in
Daniel & Kate (25:55):
yeah.
I know.
It's really scary if you thinkabout it too much.
Leisa Reichelt (25:58):
Yeah.
Daniel & Kate (25:59):
I remember, having kind of conversations
with our psychologist I rememberher saying, don't think about
the future.
Just think about right nowBecause the future in lots of
ways is really scary You can godown that fear path of, what if
this happens and then thishappens, and doesn't really help
you in the moment either, so,
Leisa Reichelt (26:19):
Let's move on to those closing questions shall
we?
if you could go back in time andtell yourself something, when
would you go back to and what doyou think you'd say?
Daniel & Kate (26:30):
Yeah.
whatever decisions you feel arebest for your family, give
yourself the freedom to makethem even if they go against
sort of perceived expectationsof what society expects.
You're in the best position todecide that.
I think a lot of societyexpectations hold people back
from decisions like that.
Whatever those opportunities arefor you, allow yourself, the
(26:54):
power to make the decisions thatyou think are best, Yeah, and I
think, just that idea of, youknow your kids better than
anyone, and other people canhave advice or think they know
what's best sometimes theiradvice is a good thing or that
(27:15):
kind of support is useful.
but I guess for me personally,it's been a really slow pathway
to feeling that I can find anduse my voice to advocate and
support my kids.
Leisa Reichelt (27:33):
Mm-hmm.
Daniel & Kate (27:34):
there was the thing, I'm not good at public
speaking.
I'm not, comfortable talking toauthority figures, it got to the
point where it almost becameirrelevant other people's
opinions how I would beperceived because something
that's so much more importantthan that But I think the
(27:56):
experience of the last few yearshave drawn that out So, me five
years ago was a different personto who I'm now.
I just feel for everyone goingthrough it because it's really,
really hard.
There's no quick, easy way outof it It's just getting by and
(28:18):
living through it and knowingyou're doing the right things,
with what you have at the time
Leisa Reichelt (28:24):
What would be the one thing that you would
love everybody who's listening,who's on their own School, Can't
journey to know?
If you could tell themsomething, what would you wanna
tell them?
Daniel & Kate (28:33):
I would say I believe you.
You're not broken, and yourchildren aren't broken.
a lot of our children areneurodivergent and the system
doesn't know how to engage withus and our families.
Even though systems and peoplein those systems make you feel
(28:54):
that you're crazy or toosensitive or too soft on your
kids none of that is true.
I know how hard the systems areto navigate as adults, let alone
if you're a child who has hugechallenges in communication or
even identifying things It'shard I'm a grown adult and I
(29:19):
struggle all the time with it.
Leisa Reichelt (29:21):
Final question, a resource that's been very
helpful for you, that you'd liketo recommend to people.
Daniel & Kate (29:27):
The School Can't group, was instrumental, for
being heard and understood.
and just the support even thoughthere's all these just people on
the internet who I don't know,who understood and continue to
navigate their own story, whichis just like ours.
(29:50):
And then once we decided to doHome Ed, it was the Home Ed
Network.
and the, the different, Facebookgroups, like the neurodivergent
one is massive, for just,understanding, both getting
insights from people, but alsojust feeling understood in that
space.
(30:11):
So the online groups have beenhuge for, ideas information and
just feeling heard and not alone
Leisa Reichelt (30:20):
They are an amazing support.
Daniel & Kate (30:22):
Mm.
Leisa Reichelt (30:23):
Thank you both Kate and Daniel for your time
and sharing your experience.
I really appreciate it.
I'm sure it'll resonate withplenty of people who are
listening.
Daniel & Kate (30:30):
Yeah.
Thanks for the opportunity tosay a bit about us, and thanks
for, giving us the time anddoing your work too.
Leisa Reichelt (30:38):
Well, many thanks again to Kate and Daniel
for sharing your story.
I'm sure there are many of uswho can relate to your
experiences.
I've put links to the HomeEducation Network in the episode
notes, and I would echo Kate'sendorsement of the Introduction
to Home Education webinars thatHEN run on a regular basis.
If you have found this podcasthelpful, please do take a moment
to subscribe.
(30:59):
Maybe even give us a rating or areview.
It makes a huge difference inhelping us get the podcast into
the hands of more people whohave School Can't kids, but who
haven't found our community andthe information that we share.
If you would like to share yourown lived experience with the
community, we would love that.
Please drop us an email toschoolcantpodcast@gmail.com.
(31:21):
It is such a relaxed process.
Anyone could do it.
I would love to hear from you.
If you are a parent or carer inAustralia and you are feeling
distressed, please remember youcan always call the Parent
Helpline in your state.
A link with the number to callis in the episode notes.
Thank you again for listening.
We will talk again soon.
Take care.
Hello and welcome to the School Can't
Experience Podcast.
I'm Leisa Reichelt, and thispodcast is brought to you by the
School Can't Australiacommunity.
Caring for a young person who isstruggling to attend school can
be a stressful and isolatingexperience, but you are not
alone.
Thousands of parents acrossAustralia and many more around
the world face similarchallenges and experiences every
(00:26):
day.
Today we have our first everSchool Can't Experience parental
double act with Kate and Daniel,who are South Australian parents
of three neurodiverse children,two of whom they're currently
home educating.
While both Kate and Daniel arefull-time carers.
They're supporting the familyback to wellness, engagement,
and learning.
I hope you enjoy their story.
(00:48):
Alright.
Well welcome Daniel and Kate toour podcast.
Thank you so much for taking thetime to join us today.
Daniel & Kate (00:54):
Thanks for having us.
Yeah, thank you.
Leisa Reichelt (00:56):
Absolute pleasure.
Just to get us started, maybeyou can give us just a little
bit of, uh, background into likeyou and your family.
Who's who, where are you?
What's what, what's going on inlife?
Daniel & Kate (01:08):
So yeah, there's five of us.
I'm late diagnosed autisticwoman.
Also I think probably PDA orADHD.
And we've got threeneurodivergent children.
So, Autistic PDAs, uh, probablysome ADHD thrown in there too.
The ages are 18, 14 and 11.
Youngest two are doing homeeducation after various periods
(01:34):
of School Can't.
Yeah, we've got a dog, crazy dogand a cat and yeah, we live in
South Australia.
Leisa Reichelt (01:42):
And you are both kinda stay at home carers right
now.
Daniel & Kate (01:46):
Yeah.
Leisa Reichelt (01:47):
What were you in previous lives?
Daniel & Kate (01:49):
Yeah.
So I was working full time upuntil 2023.
I was managing a virtual realityarcade.
Prior to that I was a geologist.
Bit of work and doing a PhD inthat.
Prior to kids, I was a socialworker, when my eldest was
young, um, and then kind ofoutta the workforce, having
(02:09):
babies, raising babies.
Leisa Reichelt (02:11):
If you look back.
Through your kids' lives and youthink with the power of
hindsight, what were theearliest signs of maybe what was
to come?
What do you go back to?
Daniel & Kate (02:21):
Well, the one that is probably not the
earliest one, but the one thatjumps out to me is just one day
in year one or reception, theteacher just sort of pulling us
aside and saying, oh, maybe lookat an educational assessment for
them.
I mean, there would've beenmeltdowns in supermarkets and
all kinds of things before that.
(02:42):
But that was the moment where webegan the actual journey towards
diagnosis and then making senseof everything that came before
it.
Leisa Reichelt (02:52):
Hmm.
Daniel & Kate (02:53):
For me it was a lot earlier.
Probably a middle one was alwaysquirky and creative and
expressive.
And I remember not ever thinkingabout the autism stuff because I
wasn't very informed about beingautistic or autism or anything
neurodivergent back then., But Ijust always thought, oh, they're
(03:13):
really quirky and, um, creativeand, you know, wouldn't answer
to their name if they wereplaying being horse or something
you know, And with our youngest,it was.
He was always just very, verysensitive, very expressive, very
creative, and lots of, um,separation anxiety too, which
now I go, well, all of thatmakes so much sense, but you
(03:36):
know, you only know what youknow
Leisa Reichelt (03:40):
Learn a lot on the way through, don't you?
Daniel & Kate (03:41):
Yeah.
Leisa Reichelt (03:42):
Let's hear a little bit about what school
can't look like for your family.
Daniel & Kate (03:45):
Probably towards the end of 2023, our middle
child really struggled withschool.
leading into 2024.
It became a case of what can wedo?
'cause we can't do schoolanymore, I really felt like
school was breaking both ofthem.
(04:06):
So it became, the schools,didn't know what to do in the
end really either.
They weren't coming up with anyoptions that were safe.
We really felt pushed into acorner where we had to take the
kids out for their ownwellbeing.
Their demeanor and outlook justgot so internalized and quiet
(04:30):
They got very quiet and itbecame a place of nothing good
can come from this becausethey're retreating more and more
we need to protect them and carefor them.
We didn't have anyone supportingus going, yeah, this is
something that happens.
It honestly felt like we werejust trying to fight our own
(04:53):
path and also trying to, youknow, be a family in a world
that doesn't understand, youknow, we're still coming to
terms with who's neurodivergent,who's autistic, who's PDA, who's
really struggling at the moment.
And it seemed like we all were,so, just so messy.
(05:15):
Yeah.
So I felt like, getting them toschool was just this battle that
became intense and traumatic.
I just thought no, we have tostop this.
Leisa Reichelt (05:26):
Mm-hmm.
Daniel & Kate (05:27):
so then it became like I did one of the Home
Education Network, seminarsabout Home Ed.
That kind of opened my eyesgoing, oh God, there's people
who are going through similarthings who understand how
intense this is.
That was a real eyeopener to gowhat you think home education
(05:51):
is, which, I guess it's quite amainstream view and prejudiced
against this is like, oh, it's abit of a cult thing and we just
wanted to be normal.
We wanted kids to go to schoolus to be able to work, everyone
to have their semblance ofindependence or growing whatever
that looks like in a mainstreamway.
And we can't do that right now.
That's not how our life is.
(06:11):
There was a lot of readjustmentsin our thinking, which we still
struggling to do a lot of thetime.
I mean, you know, what's normalin our world is very, you're
kind of brainwashed intothinking what normality is and,
our family doesn't subscribe tothat, I guess too, in lots of
ways.
So, yeah.
Leisa Reichelt (06:33):
It is challenging though, isn't it?
Because even when you know thisin your head from, learning and
recognizing it.
Still in everyday life thatintense socialization that
you've had and the world thatyou live in makes it hard, I
think, every day to feel ahundred percent comfortable and
(06:53):
confident in the differentlifestyle.
Daniel & Kate (06:56):
Yeah, definitely.
Leisa Reichelt (06:58):
Mm-hmm.
Daniel & Kate (06:59):
it's very messy and continues to be very messy
like you're talking about thereviewer from the Home Ed review
we had, which was a month, sixweeks ago.
I actually wrote her an emailafterwards because she was so
lovely and I'd heard, you know,really inconsistent feedback of
(07:19):
other people's experiences, andwe got, we just got really
lucky.
So I wrote her an email, youknow, a couple weeks after and
just said you are the firstperson in the education system I
just said to her in this emailthat, you're the first person
who I've felt believed by, whichseems ridiculous because, you
(07:43):
know, we've been in theeducation system with our kids
since 2010?
so that's a long time and I feltshe was the first person at
least in the last couple years,that believed us and gave us
time to talk about all ourchallenges and all the context
(08:05):
of our life.
So, Most of my report most of myreport was context of,
everyone's, differentcapacities, the burnout, the
trauma from school.
People believe what's happening,but maybe they also believe that
there's other solutions and thatwith different actions it can be
(08:26):
resolved.
So they're not denying that it'shappening to us and to the
children, But.
Is that because you're not doingit this way or that way?
Yeah.
You don't fully grasp howall-encompassing, the situation
is.
There was a lot of gaslighting,like, well, if you just tried
this, and the assumption is thatthey can still get there if you
(08:48):
just tried different options orif you came up with magical new
options or if you pushed themharder or something.
Leisa Reichelt (08:56):
Yeah, if you were stricter.
Daniel & Kate (08:57):
yeah.
Leisa Reichelt (08:58):
Yeah.
I'd really love to hear aboutthis first year of home
education.
I'm slightly self investedbecause I am in my first six
months of it.
Something that you said earlier,Daniel, about, you know, just
that stress of homeschooling.
I think on the podcast we'veheard a lot of people were like,
oh, you know, and then weswitched to homeschooling and
then everything, oh, I can justrelax and everything was fine.
Daniel & Kate (09:20):
Hmm.
Leisa Reichelt (09:20):
I like the fact that I don't have to stress
every morning and every nightabout getting my kid to school,
but now I stress pretty much 247.
Like there's, it is not an outof school time when I can stop
stressing.
Now I'm stressing all the time
Daniel & Kate (09:35):
yeah,
Leisa Reichelt (09:35):
that I'm not doing enough or not doing the
right things that we should bedoing more or better or
different and I am a little bitscared about what's gonna
happen.
I've got somebody coming back,in a few months to have a look
at everything that we'veachieved.
I'm just like, I don't thinkit's what she's gonna be
expecting based on, you know,when she came to see us the
first time around.
Daniel & Kate (09:54):
yeah, it comes back to that idea of achievement
you mentioned?
at the start, we were expectingeverything to be based on
traditional kind of education,which is how, you know, what,
how much have they read, whatcan they add up now, all that
kind of stuff.
And personally, I was sort ofexpecting that's what we would
(10:14):
have to do too.
I guess for, for me, it's beenjust a, you have to at first
acknowledge what's the capacityand what's the capability?
And once you realize that, okay,well that's what you're working
with, then you start thinkingabout, well, what can we
actually do?
And what is learning gonna looklike within that capacity?
(10:38):
so for us it's been just beavailable, try and, let people
follow interests, fosterinquisitiveness and keep people
feeling regulated and safe, Iguess.
Yeah.
It was a thing of a period whichis kind of ongoing for us, which
(10:59):
is just that deschooling orunschooling.
It was just like, we can't haveany expectations on them and we
still can't.
everything is pretty much, wehave suggestions occasionally,
but you know, there's PDAinvolved too.
Demands, questions orsuggestions often don't work.
Yeah, you needed that period ofdecompression as well, which I
(11:22):
feel like is just our life ingeneral.
We have to do that a lot of thetime anyway.
So yeah, when we finally decidedwe can't do school anymore, we
are going to do Home Ed, it wasa huge, huge relief both for us,
but I think also for the kids aswell I just thought now we need
(11:45):
to not have expectations onthem.
They need to recover in somesense'cause they're all burnt
out and we are burnt out.
In combination with your PDAprofile, we have to be very, low
demand and creative with what weuse as evidence of learning for
the system.
(12:06):
it's our job to kind of, youknow, notice things, put ideas
away, you know, write thingsdown so we can support our kids
to be regulated and recover.
Our job as the parents is tojump through all the hurdles
systemically.
so they can just be ticked offas they're at home.
(12:27):
They're home educating, theydon't have to jump through the
hoops themselves.
yeah, I think we've just had topare everything back and go,
these young people are ourpriority and the system isn't,
we have to negotiate with thesystem.
but what's important is theirwellbeing.
(12:51):
It's unpredictable and messy allthe time.
but that's just our life.
I think it'll be a constantongoing thing.
It's just up and downconstantly.
Leisa Reichelt (13:00):
Well, I find that reassuring.
we certainly have got good weeksand bad weeks here.
You have a good week and you'relike, maybe it's starting to
work and everything's gonna beamazing.
And then you had the next weekas a complete reality check, and
you're like, no, it's just, it'sa bit of a cycle.
Daniel & Kate (13:14):
And for us, I think It's like a moment to
moment, day to day, morningafternoon,, Like my expectations
or what I notice is you can justhave three good moments in a
morning.
And you just got to, be aware ofthose and notice them And then
the afternoon or the eveningmight be a total write off
Leisa Reichelt (13:36):
Yeah.
Daniel & Kate (13:36):
just to note the good moments both for yourself
and for your child, but also, ifthere's something you can tick
off in the home ed to go, oh,they'll learn about that, or
they engaged with that.
Just having low expectationsreally, and then yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Leisa Reichelt (13:51):
Hmm.
Daniel & Kate (13:51):
we talk about like, ticking things off, I
mean, I, I agree and, but Iguess our goal is still for our
kids to learn and, and beeducated.
It's just we are still trying towork out how that is for them,
what does work for them and howthey do learn and get them to a
point where they can.
so yeah, we're not snubbing ournose at, oh, our kids don't need
(14:16):
to be educated in a traditionalway.
We're just trying to find out.
since that doesn't work what,what can we do?
What, what might work?
We're testing all of thoseavenues We've tried to be
specific, we tried a road tripto Melbourne and there were
learning things on that, but itwas also really challenging.
it was really hard.
(14:36):
And so a lot of big meltdownsand really challenging moments.
We did it and it was a learningexperience.
But would we do it again thesame way?
Probably not.
Leisa Reichelt (14:46):
If there's such a thing, what does a typical day
look like for you?
Daniel & Kate (14:50):
It almost feels embarrassing to answer that
question, because at the moment,it's getting out of bed late.
there's a lot of screens We tryto get people to engage with an
activity.
So we try and say, should we gofor a walk Shall we maybe go see
a movie?
Or should we do a Lego set?
We're just really trying toengage with people, around their
(15:14):
interests, but also, like healthstuff So we try to go, we've got
a dog, so we need to take thedog, for a walk every day.
The movies have worked a coupletimes in the last month, which
is great.
to even get out of the house isbrilliant because there's still
a huge amount of anxiety aroundleaving and just not engage with
(15:35):
the idea of leaving the houseeven going in the backyard or,
going down the street.
That's really, really hard.
Leisa Reichelt (15:41):
Yeah.
Daniel & Kate (15:42):
I think even just saying it out loud, it's still
really confronting to say it.
Yeah.
And, that whole concept of whatis learning and luckily our Home
Education reviewer understoodthis, but for example, for our
youngest, they play a lot ofgames and they are learning when
they're playing those.
There's user interfaces andcomputer skills that they're
(16:03):
learning.
And that's really important totoday's world.
At one point he got interestedin a game called Supermarket
Simulator.
Driven by himself, he opened upthis game, started playing it,
and he was, you know, in avirtual world selling customers
items, reordering stock.
Counting up the money that he'dneed giving the correct change.
(16:24):
This is an engagement with mathsthat was totally self-driven by
him.
And he would not have done thatschool, he would not have showed
any interest.
So, certainly we couldn't havetried to teach him that too.
He needs, autonomy and it needsto be interest led.
These things are spontaneous andunpredictable really, aren't
they?
Yeah.
And sort of parking yourexpectation for a while and
(16:45):
going, okay, trusting thatlearning will happen if we are
ready to engage and giveopportunity.
Our our middle child lovesdrawing.
They do so much drawing, hoursand hours of drawing a day.
So we, we enable that.
We, encourage that.
We let them go.
And again, you know, even justby drawing, you're downloading
programs, you're learning newinterfaces of programs.
(17:10):
But the flip side of that iswhen someone says, so what are
they learning at home?
Or what are they doing formaths?
you've gotta find examples likesupermarket simulator, that's
their math.
And I still struggle just withthat.
Um, self-driven as well, thatself critique of what we are
doing.
Yeah.
But I think ultimately, we don'thave a choice at the moment.
(17:31):
We've gotta keep peopleregulated, like Kate said,
that's the number one safe,happy regulated to make them, to
have them in a spot where theycan learn and then provide
opportunities.
That's the best we can do at themoment.
Leisa Reichelt (17:44):
Yeah.
I know you said it's kind ofembarrassing to share, but what
you are describing is so similarto what I'm experiencing here in
our home as well, and I'm surethere are so many other people
who are listening to this whoare also experiencing similar
things.
I really appreciate you sharingit because it does feel very
shameful and it is verydifficult to answer questions
(18:05):
around it.
Daniel & Kate (18:06):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
And even though I know that'swhat our audience is, and they
can understand that when someonesays, what does the typical day
of schooling look for you?
Like, it's sort of like freezeup.
Like, oh, I don't know.
Yeah.
more like what is a typical dayof survival and, and everyone
getting on look like Is reallywhat's happening.
also, from the beginning, Iremember saying this to one of
(18:26):
our psychologists, the priorityis connection and safety And I
know that's a common thing withlots of people in the School
Can't group.
Everything has been traumatizedback to those two points.
and unless, people have beenthrough it, I think it's really
hard to understand how basic ithas to get back down to Like is
(18:53):
often said in the Home EdNetwork, and in the School Can't
group, just'cause people highschool in year 12 or some people
do, doesn't mean your learningstopped.
Humans are dynamic and you learnconstantly all the time.
It's a very capitalist idea andconcept that going to school,
basically nine to five or nineto three, five days a week.
(19:14):
And yeah, that would be great ifour family could fit that But
they are curious, creativepeople and it's easier to buy
into the fear of are we gonna doif they're not at school
anymore.
That is, of course a fear that Ihave.
(19:35):
But I know that they're creativeand curious and, they're natural
learners, humans are naturallearners.
Leisa Reichelt (19:44):
Let's talk a little bit about, you know, you
said before Kate and Daniel aswell, right?
That, you know, we used to be amainstream family and now we're
very much not a mainstreamfamily.
And just that whole transitionof parents with jobs and kids
who went to school to becomingcarers and doing the home
education.
I think Daniel, you talked abouthow that has maybe amplified for
(20:08):
men, maybe more so than women.
Although as a woman, I've gottasay, it hasn't been a fun
journey for me necessarilyeither.
Daniel & Kate (20:14):
Yeah.
Leisa Reichelt (20:14):
can we talk about that a little bit?
Daniel & Kate (20:16):
Firstly, I think, in this space, women take on a
lot more responsibility Wheneverwe engage with the community,
it's almost entirely women.
So when we were trying to getthe kids to school, Kate
actually started up a parentscommittee, liaising with the
school and that was great.
(20:37):
But it was always the mums thatwere there.
So when I mentioned, I thinkit's, difficult for men in the
context of, the socialexpectations of men to even more
so be, be working and, thesocial roles of men and women
(21:00):
and stuff.
I guess for men to help thefamily, and I know everyone's
case is different, but, for somepeople it probably is just to
continue working For me it was,the decision to recognize that
if I keep trying to look forwork and Kate's here their own
with all the, the kids all thetime, that's, we we're gonna end
(21:22):
up somewhere we don't want toend up, really falling apart.
So I had to go, okay, what's themost important thing at the
moment?
Well, it's to be at home and tobe a carer and to be trying
this.
And that I think for men ispretty challenging.
The idea of, know, I'm gonna belike a home dad kind of thing.
Whether you are judged or not.
(21:43):
Every time you describe thatyou're a carer and that you're
not working and, and the kidsdon't get to school, you always
feel judged, even, whether youare being judged or not at that
time.
You feel it.
Well, I do anyway.
Yeah.
And I think lots of people ourage and in our circumstances,
you know, I've got, I hadelderly parents.
(22:04):
I've got your elderly parents aswell.
So there's an element of wheneverything was amping up with
the School Can't, my mum and dadwere both incredibly unwell, so
I was at the hospital nearlyevery day.
You had to kind of step upbecause there was so much caring
and supporting of people to bedone that I couldn't physically
(22:26):
be at the hospital looking aftermy parents, but also be at home.
So, yeah, it was, really intenseAnd distressing, but it all kind
of happened at the same time.
Like you'd probably stoppedworking just before my mum and
dad got really sick.
And that kind of forced itprobably too, in a way the not
(22:47):
looking for another job straightaway and then going, is there
like carer payments we can tryand access And this must be
really tricky for some people.
I know what it was like when Iworking from home as much as I
could and you get some blow backfrom your bosses on that.
And so you're just trying tobalance everything.
(23:07):
But that balance all fell overand I didn't have that job
anymore.
Yeah.
But if I'd been able to keepthat, maybe I could have
stumbled through it, it probablywouldn't have been a good thing.
So in some ways we wereprobably, not fortunate'cause it
was a horrible time.
it, like Kate said, it kind of.
everything to head at one time.
(23:27):
We can't, we actually can't dothis, so what's the alternative
it's also, you know, it is notjust the kids who are
dysregulated and in hugedistress, it's the parents as
well.
Every time I had to try and, youknow, say, well, what's
happening today?
Are we going to school?
And driving them to school?
I'd be in tears breaking downand so distressed plus, all the
(23:51):
other stuff with my parentshappening at the same time.
So it was like, this is gonnaall end really badly if we keep
trying to push this in so manydifferent directions.
It had to come back down tosurvival and what are the
priorities.
Once we made those decisions andsimplified things for us, that
(24:11):
there was another part whichcame in, which was like when
suddenly I had a day wherewasn't quite as stressful and
things were actually working abit better.
There was this voice in the backof my head saying, well, you
should be doing something elsethen, because this is, it's not
that
Leisa Reichelt (24:26):
Yes.
Daniel & Kate (24:27):
This is going a bit easier.
there was this survivor guilt Iremember in a psychology session
talking about this and thinking,just because things, if things
are getting better, not thatthey necessarily are, but if
things do get better, that'sgood.
Enjoy that
Leisa Reichelt (24:45):
Hmm.
Hmm.
Daniel & Kate (24:45):
you know those decisions you've made, if they
make things better we don't haveto complicate it and then go,
well, okay, it's settled now, solet's go back into the fray and
mess things up again.
That idea that, you can moveforward and it can get better
and you shouldn't feel guilty ifit does start to get better in
certain ways.
Not that everything's fixed,but.
(25:05):
the changes can make thingsbetter.
or more manageable.
And that seems like the verymainstream way of how our world
works, that, things seem alittle bit better now, so you
can the mainstream stuff again.
Leisa Reichelt (25:19):
I, I really relate to that, that, as soon as
you start to see signs thatthings are starting to lighten,
you're like, okay, well thismeans then that we should be
capable of doing more.
And whether that's more schoolor whether that's, well, maybe I
should pick up some work, or,wherever the case is.
you are always, feels likeyou're operating from a place of
lack or
Daniel & Kate (25:37):
Yeah,
Leisa Reichelt (25:38):
doing enough, or you're just always feeling like
you're letting someone orsomething down.
And I think at this age too,it's difficult career wise,
isn't it?
Because like, you know, steppingout now is a pretty scary thing
to do, and then we know how manyopportunities can you not take
to step back in
Daniel & Kate (25:55):
yeah.
I know.
It's really scary if you thinkabout it too much.
Leisa Reichelt (25:58):
Yeah.
Daniel & Kate (25:59):
I remember, having kind of conversations
with our psychologist I rememberher saying, don't think about
the future.
Just think about right nowBecause the future in lots of
ways is really scary You can godown that fear path of, what if
this happens and then thishappens, and doesn't really help
you in the moment either, so,
Leisa Reichelt (26:19):
Let's move on to those closing questions shall
we?
if you could go back in time andtell yourself something, when
would you go back to and what doyou think you'd say?
Daniel & Kate (26:30):
Yeah.
whatever decisions you feel arebest for your family, give
yourself the freedom to makethem even if they go against
sort of perceived expectationsof what society expects.
You're in the best position todecide that.
I think a lot of societyexpectations hold people back
from decisions like that.
Whatever those opportunities arefor you, allow yourself, the
(26:54):
power to make the decisions thatyou think are best, Yeah, and I
think, just that idea of, youknow your kids better than
anyone, and other people canhave advice or think they know
what's best sometimes theiradvice is a good thing or that
(27:15):
kind of support is useful.
but I guess for me personally,it's been a really slow pathway
to feeling that I can find anduse my voice to advocate and
support my kids.
Leisa Reichelt (27:33):
Mm-hmm.
Daniel & Kate (27:34):
there was the thing, I'm not good at public
speaking.
I'm not, comfortable talking toauthority figures, it got to the
point where it almost becameirrelevant other people's
opinions how I would beperceived because something
that's so much more importantthan that But I think the
(27:56):
experience of the last few yearshave drawn that out So, me five
years ago was a different personto who I'm now.
I just feel for everyone goingthrough it because it's really,
really hard.
There's no quick, easy way outof it It's just getting by and
(28:18):
living through it and knowingyou're doing the right things,
with what you have at the time
Leisa Reichelt (28:24):
What would be the one thing that you would
love everybody who's listening,who's on their own School, Can't
journey to know?
If you could tell themsomething, what would you wanna
tell them?
Daniel & Kate (28:33):
I would say I believe you.
You're not broken, and yourchildren aren't broken.
a lot of our children areneurodivergent and the system
doesn't know how to engage withus and our families.
Even though systems and peoplein those systems make you feel
(28:54):
that you're crazy or toosensitive or too soft on your
kids none of that is true.
I know how hard the systems areto navigate as adults, let alone
if you're a child who has hugechallenges in communication or
even identifying things It'shard I'm a grown adult and I
(29:19):
struggle all the time with it.
Leisa Reichelt (29:21):
Final question, a resource that's been very
helpful for you, that you'd liketo recommend to people.
Daniel & Kate (29:27):
The School Can't group, was instrumental, for
being heard and understood.
and just the support even thoughthere's all these just people on
the internet who I don't know,who understood and continue to
navigate their own story, whichis just like ours.
(29:50):
And then once we decided to doHome Ed, it was the Home Ed
Network.
and the, the different, Facebookgroups, like the neurodivergent
one is massive, for just,understanding, both getting
insights from people, but alsojust feeling understood in that
space.
(30:11):
So the online groups have beenhuge for, ideas information and
just feeling heard and not alone
Leisa Reichelt (30:20):
They are an amazing support.
Daniel & Kate (30:22):
Mm.
Leisa Reichelt (30:23):
Thank you both Kate and Daniel for your time
and sharing your experience.
I really appreciate it.
I'm sure it'll resonate withplenty of people who are
listening.
Daniel & Kate (30:30):
Yeah.
Thanks for the opportunity tosay a bit about us, and thanks
for, giving us the time anddoing your work too.
Leisa Reichelt (30:38):
Well, many thanks again to Kate and Daniel
for sharing your story.
I'm sure there are many of uswho can relate to your
experiences.
I've put links to the HomeEducation Network in the episode
notes, and I would echo Kate'sendorsement of the Introduction
to Home Education webinars thatHEN run on a regular basis.
If you have found this podcasthelpful, please do take a moment
to subscribe.
(30:59):
Maybe even give us a rating or areview.
It makes a huge difference inhelping us get the podcast into
the hands of more people whohave School Can't kids, but who
haven't found our community andthe information that we share.
If you would like to share yourown lived experience with the
community, we would love that.
Please drop us an email toschoolcantpodcast@gmail.com.
(31:21):
It is such a relaxed process.
Anyone could do it.
I would love to hear from you.
If you are a parent or carer inAustralia and you are feeling
distressed, please remember youcan always call the Parent
Helpline in your state.
A link with the number to callis in the episode notes.
Thank you again for listening.
We will talk again soon.
Take care.
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