September 8, 2025 • 43 mins
In our first parent/young person duet episode, Simone and her teenager Yani share their journey through years of school struggles, home education, and eventually finding a path forward that works. Together, they talk openly about the challenges of separation anxiety, dyslexia, School Can’t, and the toll it takes on both parent and child.
What shines through is their honesty, resilience, and the strength of their relationship as they navigate tough choices and moments of relief - from difficult mornings at the school gate to the freedom of “Beach Day.” Yani reflects on what it’s like to be a young person who simply couldn’t do school in the usual way, while Simone offers the perspective of a parent trying to balance care, work, and self-doubt.
This conversation will resonate with parents facing similar challenges, and offer valuable insight for educators and professionals seeking to better understand and support families living with School Can’t
00:00 Introduction to the School Can't Experience Podcast
00:27 Meet Yani and Simone
02:08 Early School Experiences: Daycare and Kinder
06:05 Struggles with Mainstream Primary School
24:04 Transition to High School and Lockdown Challenges
27:06 Embracing Home Education
34:13 Finding a New Path: TAFE and Future Plans
39:57 Reflections and Closing Thoughts
Recommended Resources
- School Can’t Australia Facebook Community - https://www.facebook.com/groups/schoolphobiaschoolrefusalaustralia
- Make a donation to School Can’t Australia - https://www.schoolcantaustralia.com.au/get-involved
If you are a parent of carer in Australia and experiencing distress, please call Lifeline on 13 11 14 or contact the Parent Help Line. - https://kidshelpline.com.au/parents/issues/how-parentline-can-help-you
You can contact us to volunteer to share your School Can't story or some feedback via email on schoolcantpodcast@gmail.com
Disclaimer
The content of this podcast is based on personal lived experiences and is shared for informational and storytelling purposes only. It should not be treated as medical, psychological, or professional advice under any circumstances. If you have concerns about your health or well-being, please seek guidance from a doctor, therapist, or other qualified professional.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Leisa Reichelt (00:05):
Hello and welcome to the School Can't
Experience Podcast.
I'm Leisa Reichelt.
And this podcast is brought toyou by the School Can't
Australia community.
Caring for a young person who isstruggling to attend school can
be a stressful and isolatingexperience, but you are not
alone.
Thousands of parents acrossAustralia and many more around
the world face similarchallenges and experiences every
(00:26):
day.
It is a very special episodetoday as we have our first ever
parent and young person duet.
Joining us today is Yani andtheir mum, Simone, and they're
going to be sharing theirreflections on a long journey of
School Can't, what theexperiences felt like from each
of their perspectives and wherethe journey has brought them to
today.
(00:47):
If you're a parent withexperience of School Can't, this
could be a difficult listen attimes as Yani shares very
honestly their perspective ofthe experience.
Please do be compassionate withyourself.
And remember, we've all done thevery best we could with what we
knew at the time.
I hope you enjoy listening toYani and Simone's story.
(01:09):
Alright, Simone and Yani,welcome to our podcast.
So exciting to have the two ofyou together sharing your story
with us today.
Simone (01:18):
Thank you.
It's good to be here isn't itYani?.
Leisa Reichelt (01:24):
Alright, let's just get started by getting a
little bit of a context for youand who you are and anything you
wanna tell us about selves.
Yani (01:33):
Well we live in Victoria.
We have a cat.
I have two brothers who don'tlive with us'cause they grew up
already.
We lived in Port Ferry with Nan,but we had to leave because the
rent was too expensive.
So we moved and that was good.
Simone (01:57):
I work a tiny little bit and Yani goes to TAFE And we've
been on quite a journey withschool since the beginning of
time.
Leisa Reichelt (02:08):
Let's start at the very beginning.
and I wonder, Yani, where wasthe very beginning for you with
school problems?
School challenges?
Yani (02:17):
I would almost say before school.
Because I went to daycare and Ialways hated that.
And then I went to kinder and Ihated that.
Then I went up through all theother grades and I hated those
too.
Leisa Reichelt (02:30):
When you say you hated daycare, What do you
remember hating about it?
Yani (02:34):
Well, mostly I didn't like being separated from my mum, but
that's a pretty normal thing fora kid that age.
But for me it was more extreme.
And I think it's just not like anatural thing for a kid who's so
little to be separated fromtheir primary caregiver that
(02:57):
early on.
Sort of like separating a kittenfrom its mum too early.
Simone (03:04):
And I think for Yani, Yani has always had strong
emotions.
Even when they were born, theircry was really intense and they
really wanted me.
I remember the first time theirbrother held them, they cried
and then he gave Yani back to meand they just stopped.
(03:26):
They really wanted their mum.
But I would say, if I thinkabout Yani's experience of
childcare, Yani didn't go untilthey were three.
And when they first went, it wasin a really nice, cozy, little
childcare centre.
(03:46):
They didn't actually mind goingthere.
It was sort of like home.
And then that childcare companygot bigger and they built a big
fancy building, which was morelike a kinder, where all the
kids were separated intodifferent rooms.
It was shiny, bright, and verystate of the arts of childcare
(04:09):
centre, I suppose.
But I think that changed things.
When I think of dropping Yani atkinder, it was actually quite a
disconnected experience.
There's no one there who'sspecifically there to welcome
you into that space.
You're meant to just arrive andfind yourself something to do
(04:30):
until somebody tells you to dosomething.
And again, like from a sensoryperspective, quite loud, very
bright, socially, lots ofdifferent things going on.
When I walk in with Yani, I'd bedoing a very quick scan to see
who is most likely going to beable to help me and Yani to
(04:54):
transition out of beingtogether.
And so I would already feelanxious.
Yani is probably anxious.
One person was really helpful inthat space that we could rely
on.
The rest of them, they weren'treally attuned to the fact that
it was consistently difficultfor us, I don't think.
(05:15):
What do you think Yani?
Yani (05:17):
I don't really remember specifics about it.
I just remember how I felt aboutit and some of the people and
very vaguely what happenedthere.
I mostly remember the first sortof week that I was there.
And then I don't remember a lotelse.
I know I had a best friend inkinder, we used to play in the
sandpit.
(05:38):
We had fairy bread on the firstday.
But I mean, there were times inkinder where Yani was pulled off
me and Yani would be crying andI wouldn't cry right then.
I would cry on my way to workand it would happen.
(06:00):
Feel sad already.
it would happen more with methan with Yani's dad.
Leisa Reichelt (06:05):
Were you able to get to school every day, usually
then Yani?
Yani (06:10):
I don't think I went full-time.
I think I went like two days orthree days a week or something
like that.
Simone (06:18):
Also, Yani did a trial at the independent school at the
same time as their brother did.
And, he didn't like it.
Yani loved it immediately.
And Yani started doing one dayof their kinder in that
classroom at the independentschool.
And it was always much easierfor them to go there than the
(06:42):
other one.
I can't actually remember whyyou didn't do all of your kinder
there.
I think it was financialreasons.
'cause it was a private, like anindependent school.
It cost a lot of money.
Leisa Reichelt (06:53):
What was better about that independent kinder,
Yani?
Why was it easier to go there?
Yani (07:00):
Because I knew all of the people and it was small, all the
kids knew each other.
There was only about six kids inmy class.
From kinder to year two we hadthe same teachers all the time.
We knew them really well.
(07:20):
And I liked it because it wasstructured in a more fluid way.
And it just felt like moresecure to be at a school which
was smaller.
And the people, you sort of grewup with them.
Leisa Reichelt (07:35):
Sounds lovely.
Simone, you had gone back towork by this stage.
Simone (07:41):
Yeah, I'd gone back to work a bit.
I worked just around the corner,so that was really good.
Initially we didn't have anysort of problems there with Yani
not wanting to go.
But it didn't take too longbefore that started to happen.
And we would have days that theyweren't able to go.
(08:04):
Often it'd be sort of likeanxiety as we were, like I'd
know that Yani wasn't feelinggreat before we left home, but
we would sort of manage to getout the door.
But then it would often be whenwe got to like the, the gate or
trying to get out of the car,that Yani would feel anxious and
(08:26):
there'd, there'd just be timeswhere Yani just couldn't go in.
It felt like, pushing them to goin was almost like a, like
sometimes it almost felt likeviolent actually.
Like it was
Yani (08:38):
Well cause it is violent.
Simone (08:39):
Yeah.
Yani (08:40):
But it was always violent.
When you like, pull a child offtheir parent and force them to
go into a building with peoplethat like, they don't
necessarily know that well, theymay not feel like they get on
with the kids or the teachersdon't like them, or whatever
reason they don't like it.
(09:02):
And to like drag them off fromthat person where they feel safe
and make them go to school.
That is pretty violent.
Simone (09:10):
I think it was harder because, Yani's dad and I were
separated, there was already abreak in our attachment that
neither of of really chose thatway.
and we didn't have completecontrol over the arrangements.
so
Leisa Reichelt (09:29):
this is because you were spending a week with
mum and a week with dad, and sothere wasn't that kind of
consistency.
Yani (09:37):
I was with my dad, I remember I would just go because
I just sort of felt like when Iwas with my dad, I didn't have
the same safety that I had withmy mum and I didn't have that at
school or at daycare or where,wherever I was going either.
(09:58):
So if I went from being with himto go to school, there wasn't a
difference in like how safe Iwas or how loved I felt or
anything like that.
It was the same.
But if I was with my mum, therewas a huge difference between
how safe or how much I knew mymum compared to how I knew this
(10:23):
stranger who was looking afterme or some teacher or someone
like that.
I wouldn't have that emotionalconnection with the teacher that
I would have with my mum
Leisa Reichelt (10:34):
So dad's attitude was much more like go
to school, no conversation to beentered into
Yani (10:40):
yeah, he's more of a private person.
Simone (10:46):
And then he would say to me.
I don't know what your problemis, It must be something to do
with you because it neverhappens with me.
And then I would feel like maybethere was something wrong with
the way I parented that I wasletting Yani get away with too
much or that I was a pushover orall those types of things, But
(11:08):
actually like within myself,when Yani and I would navigate
things, I would know I was onthe right track.
But, when he spoke to me likethat, I sometimes questioned
myself.
Yani (11:23):
I knew that my dad thought that about my mum.
I don't remember if you told meor he did.
Probably both.
Either way I knew that that wasa thing and that he had feelings
like, oh, your mum isn't reallydoing that right.
And I didn't like that at all.
I was pretty mad about itbecause I knew that she was
(11:45):
doing it better than he was.
I was a kid who knew what bestfor me.
And adults don't always thinkthat about kids.
They think kids don't know whatthey want or what they need.
They think kids like, don't knowwhat's best for them, but they
do.
A lot of the time they do.
Simone (12:06):
I think sometimes parents think that they have to
behave in certain ways becauseof the way other people think
about them.
Like if their kid doesn't go toschool, that there's something
wrong with them as a parent youknow, because that's what you're
meant to do.
So, to sort of start moving awayfrom that feels a bit edgy.
(12:27):
Yeah,
Leisa Reichelt (12:30):
So Yani went back to the mainstream primary
school for various reasons, andthat was not great.
Yani (12:41):
No, So for grade three, when I was about eight, I had to
leave the independent school andI went to a public school.
There was a lot of differences.
After you've been in anindependent school from kinder
to year two, it's quite a shockgo to a public school after
that.
Leisa Reichelt (13:02):
What were the differences?
Yani (13:05):
The main thing was the amount of people and the way
they did things were sodifferent.
I remember the first day I wentinto the classroom and there was
like 30 kids in the classrunning around in all different
directions and screaming I waslike, whoa, this is a bit
strange.
I don't know what to think aboutthis.
(13:27):
I remember teachers were kind ofdifferent.
They sort of felt like, theydidn't have the same connection
with the kids.
Obviously they didn't know themas well.
Or they hadn't known them aslong.
In the independent school, allof the kids knew the teachers so
well that it was like, you know,we went on school camps
(13:50):
together.
We like grew up together fromlike kinder to year two.
And that's like a tight knitthing.
If you go into public school,all of these kids don't know
each other that well.
The teachers don't know the kidsthat well.
You do like the circle thing andeverybody's like, say one thing
about yourself.
But in, in the independentschool, you wouldn't have never
(14:12):
done that because you alreadyknew everything about that kid.
Leisa Reichelt (14:16):
So that connection seems like it's
really important to you.
And so getting to school wasstill really challenging through
this primary school era.
Yani (14:25):
Mm-hmm.
Especially If I was with mum, Iwould get dropped off at school
on a Friday.
I would go to school, and thenmy dad would pick me up later
that day.
I would have afterschool carebecause he wouldn't pick me up
till five whenever he got offwork.
Simone (14:43):
yeah.
And that time, you know, Isuppose Yani did start not being
able to go to school regularlywhen they were with me.
It would be on the day that,they would be going back to
their dad.
that day would be particularlyhard, but there would be other
(15:04):
days during the week where itwould happen as well.
By this stage I was working andmy job was pretty intense.
We'd often get to the gate andYani wouldn't be able to get
out.
And I'd know that I was expectedto be at work and sometimes I'd
have to call and say, I justcan't come, They knew enough to
(15:25):
sort of know what the situationwas.
Yeah, sometimes we just wouldn'tbe able to go.
By that stage I'd worked outthat I needed to reduce my
hours.
I knew that I needed to have arelationship with Yani's school.
By this stage, Yani had adiagnosis of dyslexia and I had
(15:50):
to articulate Yani's needs tothe teachers who didn't
completely understand some ofthose things.
Were pretty rigid in the waythey did things.
I think they thought that I wasbeing difficult a fair bit of
the time and,
Yani (16:08):
And not only did they just think that about mum.
They thought that about me too.
Which I think is ridiculousbecause you think a kid is being
difficult when they literallyhave a learning disability and
just know what they want andknow how they want to be taught.
And you have only been taughthow to teach that kid in a very
(16:31):
specific way.
And you think that if you don'tteach the kid in that way, it's
wrong.
And if the kid says, you arewrong, the teacher gets upset
because they don't like beingcalled out by a 9-year-old.
But that's what I did.
Simone (16:46):
You did do it a couple of times because Yani was
determined not to be perceivedto be less intelligent because
of learning, differences, Andyeah, the teacher didn't always
like it when Yani would besaying, no, don't give me that
other work.
Like, I want the same work.
Like, don't patronize me.
(17:08):
I'm not stupid.
You know?
And, and Yani was little blonde,cute, and,
Leisa Reichelt (17:14):
Pretty fiery by the sounds of it.
Simone (17:16):
Thank goodness for that.
Yani (17:17):
you know, mum used to say that me and my brother's name
should have been switchedbecause my name means peaceful
and my brother's name meansfiery, he's more peaceful and
I'm more fiery.
Leisa Reichelt (17:32):
So you enjoyed the learning Yani, even though
it wasn't always taught to youin a way that made sense.
Yani (17:37):
I really liked history.
As a kid, that was my favoritething.
I remember that I used to getmore homework than the other
kids and I hated that because Ifelt different than everybody
else and I had to do more work Ididn't like being treated
differently, but I still likedthe work and wanted to do the
(17:58):
same work as everybody else,even though it was harder for me
to do it than it was for them.
Simone (18:04):
And sometimes I think staying at school was hard
because sometimes you would getupset at school.
Like kids would see you upset.
Yani (18:14):
There was a day when my mum, it was a Friday, she
dropped me off and like I reallydidn't wanna go.
And I like, fought it as hard asI possibly could and she tried
as hard as she could to get meto stay there.
In the end I did.
But like, I think I got there, Igot there late, I'd like chased
(18:34):
her up the path and told her tostop and not leave me there.
And, once I actually got in theclassroom, I don't remember how
she got me to stay.
Maybe you called the principalor something and got me to go in
there.
And once I actually sat in theclassroom, the teacher asked me
what my favourite animal was orsomething, because it was a
(18:58):
thing they did for the rollcall.
They would call out everybody'sname and then say like, what's
your favorite animal?
And I said, giraffe.
And then I just started cryingAnd all the kids looked at me
and I was just so, I was like,oh my God.
Like go away.
Like I thought they would haveso many opinions about me
(19:19):
because I had different stuffgoing on than they did.
And I already felt different toeverybody else because of the
way that my parents were, theway that I was like always late
to school.
One week I was early, the otherweek I was late.
It was just that.
(19:40):
And then also I was dyslexic.
Well, I still am.
The teacher would like call meup and make me read the roll
call.
I couldn't read properly and Ijust, I just felt like very
different to the other kidsthere, which didn't help with
the fact that I didn't wanna bethere in the first place.
Simone (19:58):
Which is why I think sometimes it was important that
Yani did have days off.
It must have been exhausting.
You know, if you really look atyour kid with your eyes open and
you look at things from theirperspective rather than your
own, and there's a moment wherethat happens, I think where you,
like I knew that they couldn'tgo to school all the time, so I
(20:19):
suppose sometimes I justaccepted that that was how that
day was gonna be and didn't givemyself too much of a hard time
about making that decision.
We sometimes actually had a goodtime and, that was important for
(20:43):
Yani's, wellbeing and ourrelationship and my wellbeing as
well.
It was interesting how often bythe early afternoon Yani would
be playing schools.
So like, it wasn't that theydidn't want to be at school or
(21:03):
didn't like the idea of school.
It was just the way it wasdelivered.
And yeah, one day we have totalk about is the memorable day
where we wagged the daytogether.
Leisa Reichelt (21:14):
This is Beach Day, yeah?
Yani (21:16):
Mm-hmm.
Simone (21:16):
Yeah.
Leisa Reichelt (21:17):
Tell us about Beach Day.
Yani (21:18):
so I got dressed, got in the car, we drove to school, got
to the gate, I was like, I'm notgoing in there, mum, I'm not
going.
And I don't remember what youdid.
I only remember the part whereyou were like, oh, I'm not doing
this again.
I don't care.
Let's just go to the beach.
(21:40):
I was like, okay, let's go.
And I really like that about mymum.
quite spontaneous sometimes, andespecially when I was a kid.
And we had a lot going on.
Sometimes you would just come upwith something really fun to do
sort of make up for it.
And sometimes I couldn't predictwhat you were gonna do.
Like I had no idea.
Simone (21:59):
I don't think it was to make up for it.
It was more to let go of, tryingto make things different,
Leisa Reichelt (22:07):
What's your version of Beach Day, Simone?
Simone (22:10):
My version of Beach Day, it was, stuff it, we're not
doing it like this, thisactually really doesn't matter.
It actually doesn't matter.
And who gives a stuff if wedon't do what we are meant to.
Um, we're just gonna totally,drop it and do what we need to
(22:30):
do.
And so I took Yani to the opshop.
Yani (22:32):
I only had school clothes.
Simone (22:33):
I promised that we were going to the beach.
I didn't want Yani to be intheir school clothes all day.
I'm like, come on, let's go tothe op shop and we'll buy you
some clothes to wear and we'regonna go to the shop and get
some really good food and we'rejust gonna go to the beach.
And so that's what we did.
And it was sort of fun andliberating and edgy just to sort
(22:54):
of like, walk into the op shopand go stuff It you know, take
school clothes off and getyourself something, and off we
go.
And we both remember that day asvery special I think.
Yani (23:07):
Yeah.
I think my favorite part wasseeing my mum as somebody who
was fun and not just somebodywho made me do things that I
really, really, really didn'twanna do.
And it was sort of likesometimes she would like take me
to the movies on a Friday nightor something and I got to see
(23:28):
the part of my mum that was thefun part, but I didn't get to
see that much because school andwork make your parents seem like
just this boring person so,yeah, but then she would do
something like that and I wouldbe pretty impressed.
Simone (23:41):
I suppose it's also saying, there's other ways we
can do this.
How else can this be, I thinkthat was important like that's
how it was for the rest of yourexperience of primary school,
was that you sort of had daysoff, like right till the end of
(24:02):
grade six.
Yeah.
Leisa Reichelt (24:04):
Let's talk about high school then.
So the joys of primary schoolwere behind us and we were
moving onto high school, freshnew start.
How did that work out?
Simone (24:14):
So, we moved from Tasmania to Victoria at the end
of Yani's grade six.
I thought maybe Yani couldrepeat grade six.
Like that was one option I putto them was maybe you could do
grade six again.
Yani (24:32):
And I was just like, oh, I don't wanna do that again.
and I was like, no mum.
I'd rather go to this giantschool where I don't know
anybody and I don't know any ofthe teachers, and it's 40
minutes away on the bus.
I'd rather do that.
Simone (24:49):
And the other option was a small, sort of like country
school, which I thought couldhave been nice for Yani because
it was on some land, it hadtrees and, less kids.
but the one Yani went to, Ithink it was mostly that Yani
could see values they related tothroughout the presentation of
(25:11):
the building.
that was really it, wasn't it?
Yani (25:14):
I liked it because, well, I saw that it was big and I saw
the environment and I was like,I don't care.
I think my idea of the futurewas a bit different back then.
I sort of couldn't imagine thefuture.
I just thought, oh, this schoolis the best school they have
better values than the otherones.
(25:34):
And, whatever.
I don't care if it's big.
That's a problem for somebodyelse.
That's, that's for future Yani.
I don't care.
I wanted to go there, eventhough mum told me to go to the
smaller one, she was like, youshould probably choose this one
'cause it's smaller and you'lllike it more.
And I was like, no.
Leisa Reichelt (25:52):
You know your own mind.
How did it work out?
Yani (25:57):
I went there for a term.
The second term was whenlockdown happened.
But when I actually startedgoing to year seven at that
school, I realized that Iactually hated it and that it
was different than I hadimagined I didn't feel like the
students were supported verywell.
(26:17):
It was kind of just likeeverybody looks after themself
and nobody really cares aboutanybody else.
That's how it feels.
I think that's a big schoolthing because you might make
friends, especially in yearseven just because you need
them.
You might not even like them,they're just your friends
(26:37):
because you have to have friendsbecause you need somebody to
rely on.
The teachers are busy with liketheir 1000 million students that
they're just like running arounddying of children.
Then their jobs are so difficultAnd the kids, especially the
(26:57):
younger ones, don't really knowwhat they're doing.
We had to look after each othereven though we didn't really
want to necessarily.
Leisa Reichelt (27:06):
How about we talk about the transition you
guys made from this giganticschool to home education.
How did that come about?
Yani (27:18):
Well, COVID happened.
So everyone started doing onlineschool and lot of kids were
like, ew! What is this?
I don't wanna do this.
And I was one of those kids.
Simone (27:33):
it wasn't just that you didn't wanna do it though, it
was really hard for you.
Yani (27:37):
No, didn't, I didn't wanna do it.
Simone (27:38):
It was really hard for you though.
Yani (27:39):
It was hard because the teachers weren't there to like,
tell you what you were actuallysupposed to be doing.
And it was just stupid.
I didn't like it.
Nobody did.
I don't think I've ever met asingle person who was like, I
love online school.
I liked doing my work, but if Ididn't have to do it and it was
something complicated that Ididn't enjoy, I wasn't gonna do
(28:00):
it.
I would try and do it because Iwas stubborn.
But if I really didn't wanna doit, then I probably wouldn't.
Simone (28:09):
Well, for you to have done it, it would've taken you
longer than the actual hoursthat you had to spend online as
well.
We would've had to do a wholeheap more work.
And I don't think either of uswere resourced enough to do
that.
And Yani had already had, beingunable to go to school before
the lockdowns
Yani (28:29):
obviously.
That's the whole point of thispodcast.
Simone (28:31):
Yeah.
But I mean, before, like in yearseven, in that first term, there
were, days that you couldn't goto school, and it was a
combination of all of that stuffto do with school and then
having to travel there.,
Yani (28:43):
Well, yeah, because it was a big school.
I had to get up at 6:00 AM, geton the bus for like half an
hour, drive around to all thesedifferent schools, drop a lot
other kids off, go to school forlike six hours, go to all these
different classes in differentplaces of the school, figure out
where I was going, figure outhow to unlock my locker, fight
(29:04):
all the kids to get there, doall of that, and then deal with
social issues.
Then get back on the bus at likethree, get home at four o'clock,
have dinner and go to bed.
Do it again.
Five days in a row, like, and Iwas 12.
Leisa Reichelt (29:22):
It sounds almost as boring as being an adult.
Yani (29:24):
I think it's worse.
I think it's worse.
And
Leisa Reichelt (29:29):
Yeah.
Simone (29:29):
so Yani hadn't been able to go to school sometimes before
the lockdown, but then theschool tried to offer some extra
support to reengage.
But it didn't really seem,
Yani (29:40):
Are you talking about when you tried to get me to go back
and I was very stuck on the ideaof not going back.
And we went into that meetingand they were like, Ooh, how
about you just go one day aweek?
And I was like, nup, you can'tconvince me.
And I was just like, I'm noteven learning anything.
I'm just wasting all my energyon getting there.
(30:00):
Dealing with all the people anddoing nothing and not even
learning anything.
And I was just like, this isstupid.
And mum was like, should I tryand get you to go back or like,
what do I do?
Simone (30:12):
from my perspective there just wasn't enough support
for Yani to be able to exist atschool.
And, so basically we juststopped.
Yani (30:21):
But there was the moment where I was just like, no,
Again, sort of like the samefeeling as the day we wagged
school at our beach day.
it was like, I don't careanymore.
this is not working.
we don't have to do it this way.
I don't know what we're gonnado, we are not doing that
anymore.
Like, I'm done with trying to dothat and I don't know what's
(30:44):
gonna happen, but I'm just gonnalet go.
I did feel like we didn't have achoice actually.
Then when we registered forhomeschooling, I wrote up a
really good and very idealisticlearning plan for Yani's
homeschooling experience.
(31:06):
I was very capable of doingthat.
But the idea and the ideal ofhomeschooling and the reality of
it are two very different thingswhen there's not really any
support to help you.
Simone (31:23):
I really needed practical support and a, and a,
um, you know, like mentor andlike a paid person who would
guide me and support me.
But we didn't have that and Iwas pretty burnt out I was
exhausted.
And so I sort of had to decidethat the way that Yani was gonna
(31:46):
have to learn was just from lifereally.
Yani (31:49):
I didn't have a choice either.
And that's what I wanted becauseI knew there was no other
choice.
if I had another choice, Iprobably would've chosen it.
But there wasn't another choiceI wanted to learn things.
I wasn't like, oh, I don't wannabe at school'cause I don't like
learning.
I loved learning and I still do.
Leisa Reichelt (32:09):
How were those years of homeschooling for you,
Yani?
Yani (32:12):
Part of it was good and part of it was horrible.
I really liked it especially atthe start because it's exactly
what I needed at the time.
Especially in COVID time, I justneeded a break from school.
Like completely.
I just needed to forget schoolexisted and hang around in the
garden and be with mum becausethere was already so much going
(32:34):
on with us, it was good just tolet go of everything that was
going on and just like, hang outwith Nan We were just like a
little team we moved house acouple of times.
The first house we were in waslike the first era of
homeschooling, which was mainlylike, I don't care anymore.
(32:58):
Then we moved house and that wascloser to Nan and that was just
sort of like a bit more of arelaxed time.
I felt pretty relaxed.
I sort of wish that I had moreto do.
I was starting to get like, ohmy God, what the hell am I gonna
do with my life?
I'm just gonna have like, no wayof getting a job.
(33:18):
No way of like integrating intosociety and being a proper
person or whatever you call it.
At least I was like not astressed out teenager with all
of these exams and stuff to dealwith, I couldn't have dealt with
it at the time.
And I'll look back at it and belike, oh my God, look at all
(33:39):
this stuff I didn't do.
I wish I could have done it.
And I don't think it's fair thatI didn't get to but I couldn't
have done it even if I wantedto.
That's just the way that it is.
Simone (33:53):
And, I didn't feel very resourced to support Yani in
their learning.
I've always trusted that theywanna learn and that they have
capacity to find the informationthat they need and follow their
own interests and ideas andthings.
Leisa Reichelt (34:10):
Let's fast forward to the present time
then, shall we?
So we've been through thesereally difficult school times.
We've kind of disengaged fromschool and spent this time in
more of a home education,freeform type, teach yourself
kind of situation for a while.
Yani, you said you were startingto be concerned about like, what
am I gonna do with my life?
(34:32):
Where are we now?
What's going on?
Yani (34:35):
We had a period of time, early last year maybe, where
this woman came from, thereconnect place.
Her job was to try and get me toreconnect with education.
And at that time I was like, Ew,I'm not doing that.
That's disgusting.
And she recommended that I couldtry and go to TAFE and I was
(34:55):
like, oh my God, what the hellare you thinking?
That's half an hour away Andthese are adult courses.
I wasn't ready for that yet.
I felt pretty threatened by theidea of it, because I didn't
know anything else really, apartfrom the experiences that I'd
already had and not being ineducation for quite a while at
(35:18):
that point, I was like, well, ifyou're trying to get me back
into that, it's just not gonnawork.
But, then we ended up moving Soonce we did that, I was a lot
closer to education that I couldaccess and I started to sort of
like widen my horizons with thepeople that I met and things
(35:40):
that I started doing.
And I ended up doing this artcourse at TAFE and meeting a
bunch of people and realizingthat like, education could be
good, but I think the only waythat I could ever have a good
education would be if I wastreated like an adult, or
(36:01):
literally being an adult.
As a kid, I wasn't the type ofkid that you could talk to like
a kid.
I was the type of kid that waslike, tell me how it is, tell me
the truth.
Don't sugarcoat anything becauseI'm gonna see right through it
anyway and I'm gonna thinkyou're trying to suck up to me
Leisa Reichelt (36:18):
That makes tons of sense.
Yani (36:20):
yeah,
Leisa Reichelt (36:22):
So you're doing art course now.
Yani (36:24):
Yeah, more than halfway through now
Leisa Reichelt (36:30):
you having trouble going to that or is that
easy to attend or?
Yani (36:34):
that's always been easy.
I think at the start I was a bitintimidated because it's like a
bunch of adults and they treatyou like an adult and that's
what I kind of wanted or needed.
But at the same time, I didn'tknow how to do that because I'd
never done that before.
I'd been with mum for a longtime and not really even gone to
(36:56):
a restaurant on my own or goneto the shop on my own.
I didn't know like at all how tobe an adult.
Starting to go there with all ofthese adults was like, whoa,
okay.
Like I'm gonna have to like bereally independent here.
I was like, I don't know how todo that yet.
But I think it took me like halfa term and then I was like, oh,
(37:20):
I know how to do this.
This is okay.
I figured it out.
Leisa Reichelt (37:24):
So what are you gonna do once you finish the art
course?
Yani (37:29):
Mum suggested that like, I could try going to like, because
they do high school at TAFE andI didn't know about that, but
she was like, oh, you could doyear 11 and 12 at TAFE.
And I was like, oh yeah, then Icould finally finish my high
school education even though Inever really started it.
and get that over with so I canmove on to more like Adult
(37:49):
Education, getting a job, doingall of that type of thing.
So, my mum found out that therewas like a exemption process for
how old you had to be when youwent into that course.
and she like sent an email tothe teacher and so I got, I got
accepted into doing that fornext year.
Leisa Reichelt (38:10):
Yay, hooray for mum.
Yani (38:12):
Mm-hmm.
Leisa Reichelt (38:14):
That's so cool.
what do you think Yani is theplan after that, have you got a
bit of a vision for what you seeyourself doing in the next
couple of years?
Yani (38:23):
Well I have the rest of this year I'm doing the art
course.
After that next year I'm gonnado year 11.
And because that has workrelated skills as a subject, I'm
gonna do early education forthat.
And there's a work placement forthat as well.
(38:44):
So through doing year 11 and 12.
You get quite a lot of workexperience and from there you
can move on to the workforce ordoing more education if you want
So my plan Is to go from doingthe rest of high school
education to working andwhatever else I find that I
wanna do.
Leisa Reichelt (39:04):
Amazing.
about you, Simone?
Simone (39:06):
yeah.
So, it's a new phase of life forme, really.
Maybe a little overdue.
I will be reentering theworkforce.
Financially we need to, but alsofor me as a middle-aged woman.
to sort of, I guess, reclaimsome of my, and I don't know how
possible it even is to do, butI'm pretty poor, you know, I've
(39:30):
made decisions, based on theneeds of Yani for quite some
time.
Leisa Reichelt (39:34):
Mm-hmm.
Simone (39:35):
I'm just starting to look for work.
It's, sort of scary.
and I feel a little bit behindthe eight ball in terms of where
I am in life and, and even inapplying for jobs to sort of
like explain I've been doing.
I feel a bit behind the eightball, but I'm actually really
looking forward to getting backto work as well.
Leisa Reichelt (39:55):
Yeah, I can imagine.
Thank you so much for sharingthis story.
It's been so amazing to talk toyou both.
I just wanna wrap up with aclosing question each for you.
Might start with you, Simone.
If you could go back to thebeginning when, Yani was in
daycare, early, early days, withall of the knowledge in the
(40:17):
experience that you have today,What would you tell yourself?
Simone (40:22):
I would say trust what you feel in your body.
You know the answers.
You're an awesome mum.
You love your child Listen tothem be guided by them and trust
yourself.
it's gonna be okay.
it is okay.
You are fine.
your, child is fine.
(40:43):
Trust your judgment You are notgonna have the same path as
other people, but you'll end upin some really interesting
places and it'll be worth it,
Leisa Reichelt (40:53):
That's lovely.
And Yani, you've got loads ofpeople listening now who have
either got kids who are havingtrouble getting up and getting
dressed to go to school orgetting out of the car when
they're at the school gate, andmaybe some teachers listening
who've got kids who don't wannacome into school.
(41:13):
What is one thing that you wantall of them to know?
No pressure.
Yani (41:20):
I think the main thing that I would want to tell an
adult around that child would bethat the child isn't trying to
be an inconvenience or make lifeharder for the adults around
them.
School is just not an easy thingfor a kid.
That kid may not do things inthe same way that other kids
will end up doing them.
(41:41):
I think that is fine.
Sometimes you just have toaccept that and find your own
way of doing it.
Leisa Reichelt (41:50):
Thank you so much for coming and sharing your
story with us today.
It's been lovely having the twoof you on together.
Simone (41:56):
Thank you.
Thanks for inviting us.
Leisa Reichelt (41:59):
There is so much to take away from Yani and
Simone's story, I think but theone thing that really stands out
for me is the beautifulconnection between the two of
them that has survived andthrived despite the challenges
they've faced together over theyears.
I found it a really importantreminder of the importance of
prioritizing that parent-childconnection.
No matter what else the worldmight be telling us is so
(42:20):
important.
If you found this podcasthelpful, please do take a moment
to subscribe or maybe give us arating or a review.
This really does help us get thepodcast in front of more people
who have School Can't kids, andwho haven't found the community
and all the information weshare.
If you have some feedback forus, a suggestion for a future
topic, or maybe you've beeninspired to share your own lived
(42:41):
experience story, please drop mean email to
schoolcantpodcast@gmail.com.
And I would love to hear fromyou.
If you are a parent or carer inAustralia and you're feeling
distressed, remember you canalways call the Parent Helpline
in your state.
A link with the number to callis in the episode notes.
Thank you again for listening,and we will talk again soon.
(43:03):
Take care.
Hello and welcome to the School Can't
Experience Podcast.
I'm Leisa Reichelt.
And this podcast is brought toyou by the School Can't
Australia community.
Caring for a young person who isstruggling to attend school can
be a stressful and isolatingexperience, but you are not
alone.
Thousands of parents acrossAustralia and many more around
the world face similarchallenges and experiences every
(00:26):
day.
It is a very special episodetoday as we have our first ever
parent and young person duet.
Joining us today is Yani andtheir mum, Simone, and they're
going to be sharing theirreflections on a long journey of
School Can't, what theexperiences felt like from each
of their perspectives and wherethe journey has brought them to
today.
(00:47):
If you're a parent withexperience of School Can't, this
could be a difficult listen attimes as Yani shares very
honestly their perspective ofthe experience.
Please do be compassionate withyourself.
And remember, we've all done thevery best we could with what we
knew at the time.
I hope you enjoy listening toYani and Simone's story.
(01:09):
Alright, Simone and Yani,welcome to our podcast.
So exciting to have the two ofyou together sharing your story
with us today.
Simone (01:18):
Thank you.
It's good to be here isn't itYani?.
Leisa Reichelt (01:24):
Alright, let's just get started by getting a
little bit of a context for youand who you are and anything you
wanna tell us about selves.
Yani (01:33):
Well we live in Victoria.
We have a cat.
I have two brothers who don'tlive with us'cause they grew up
already.
We lived in Port Ferry with Nan,but we had to leave because the
rent was too expensive.
So we moved and that was good.
Simone (01:57):
I work a tiny little bit and Yani goes to TAFE And we've
been on quite a journey withschool since the beginning of
time.
Leisa Reichelt (02:08):
Let's start at the very beginning.
and I wonder, Yani, where wasthe very beginning for you with
school problems?
School challenges?
Yani (02:17):
I would almost say before school.
Because I went to daycare and Ialways hated that.
And then I went to kinder and Ihated that.
Then I went up through all theother grades and I hated those
too.
Leisa Reichelt (02:30):
When you say you hated daycare, What do you
remember hating about it?
Yani (02:34):
Well, mostly I didn't like being separated from my mum, but
that's a pretty normal thing fora kid that age.
But for me it was more extreme.
And I think it's just not like anatural thing for a kid who's so
little to be separated fromtheir primary caregiver that
(02:57):
early on.
Sort of like separating a kittenfrom its mum too early.
Simone (03:04):
And I think for Yani, Yani has always had strong
emotions.
Even when they were born, theircry was really intense and they
really wanted me.
I remember the first time theirbrother held them, they cried
and then he gave Yani back to meand they just stopped.
(03:26):
They really wanted their mum.
But I would say, if I thinkabout Yani's experience of
childcare, Yani didn't go untilthey were three.
And when they first went, it wasin a really nice, cozy, little
childcare centre.
(03:46):
They didn't actually mind goingthere.
It was sort of like home.
And then that childcare companygot bigger and they built a big
fancy building, which was morelike a kinder, where all the
kids were separated intodifferent rooms.
It was shiny, bright, and verystate of the arts of childcare
(04:09):
centre, I suppose.
But I think that changed things.
When I think of dropping Yani atkinder, it was actually quite a
disconnected experience.
There's no one there who'sspecifically there to welcome
you into that space.
You're meant to just arrive andfind yourself something to do
(04:30):
until somebody tells you to dosomething.
And again, like from a sensoryperspective, quite loud, very
bright, socially, lots ofdifferent things going on.
When I walk in with Yani, I'd bedoing a very quick scan to see
who is most likely going to beable to help me and Yani to
(04:54):
transition out of beingtogether.
And so I would already feelanxious.
Yani is probably anxious.
One person was really helpful inthat space that we could rely
on.
The rest of them, they weren'treally attuned to the fact that
it was consistently difficultfor us, I don't think.
(05:15):
What do you think Yani?
Yani (05:17):
I don't really remember specifics about it.
I just remember how I felt aboutit and some of the people and
very vaguely what happenedthere.
I mostly remember the first sortof week that I was there.
And then I don't remember a lotelse.
I know I had a best friend inkinder, we used to play in the
sandpit.
(05:38):
We had fairy bread on the firstday.
But I mean, there were times inkinder where Yani was pulled off
me and Yani would be crying andI wouldn't cry right then.
I would cry on my way to workand it would happen.
(06:00):
Feel sad already.
it would happen more with methan with Yani's dad.
Leisa Reichelt (06:05):
Were you able to get to school every day, usually
then Yani?
Yani (06:10):
I don't think I went full-time.
I think I went like two days orthree days a week or something
like that.
Simone (06:18):
Also, Yani did a trial at the independent school at the
same time as their brother did.
And, he didn't like it.
Yani loved it immediately.
And Yani started doing one dayof their kinder in that
classroom at the independentschool.
And it was always much easierfor them to go there than the
(06:42):
other one.
I can't actually remember whyyou didn't do all of your kinder
there.
I think it was financialreasons.
'cause it was a private, like anindependent school.
It cost a lot of money.
Leisa Reichelt (06:53):
What was better about that independent kinder,
Yani?
Why was it easier to go there?
Yani (07:00):
Because I knew all of the people and it was small, all the
kids knew each other.
There was only about six kids inmy class.
From kinder to year two we hadthe same teachers all the time.
We knew them really well.
(07:20):
And I liked it because it wasstructured in a more fluid way.
And it just felt like moresecure to be at a school which
was smaller.
And the people, you sort of grewup with them.
Leisa Reichelt (07:35):
Sounds lovely.
Simone, you had gone back towork by this stage.
Simone (07:41):
Yeah, I'd gone back to work a bit.
I worked just around the corner,so that was really good.
Initially we didn't have anysort of problems there with Yani
not wanting to go.
But it didn't take too longbefore that started to happen.
And we would have days that theyweren't able to go.
(08:04):
Often it'd be sort of likeanxiety as we were, like I'd
know that Yani wasn't feelinggreat before we left home, but
we would sort of manage to getout the door.
But then it would often be whenwe got to like the, the gate or
trying to get out of the car,that Yani would feel anxious and
(08:26):
there'd, there'd just be timeswhere Yani just couldn't go in.
It felt like, pushing them to goin was almost like a, like
sometimes it almost felt likeviolent actually.
Like it was
Yani (08:38):
Well cause it is violent.
Simone (08:39):
Yeah.
Yani (08:40):
But it was always violent.
When you like, pull a child offtheir parent and force them to
go into a building with peoplethat like, they don't
necessarily know that well, theymay not feel like they get on
with the kids or the teachersdon't like them, or whatever
reason they don't like it.
(09:02):
And to like drag them off fromthat person where they feel safe
and make them go to school.
That is pretty violent.
Simone (09:10):
I think it was harder because, Yani's dad and I were
separated, there was already abreak in our attachment that
neither of of really chose thatway.
and we didn't have completecontrol over the arrangements.
so
Leisa Reichelt (09:29):
this is because you were spending a week with
mum and a week with dad, and sothere wasn't that kind of
consistency.
Yani (09:37):
I was with my dad, I remember I would just go because
I just sort of felt like when Iwas with my dad, I didn't have
the same safety that I had withmy mum and I didn't have that at
school or at daycare or where,wherever I was going either.
(09:58):
So if I went from being with himto go to school, there wasn't a
difference in like how safe Iwas or how loved I felt or
anything like that.
It was the same.
But if I was with my mum, therewas a huge difference between
how safe or how much I knew mymum compared to how I knew this
(10:23):
stranger who was looking afterme or some teacher or someone
like that.
I wouldn't have that emotionalconnection with the teacher that
I would have with my mum
Leisa Reichelt (10:34):
So dad's attitude was much more like go
to school, no conversation to beentered into
Yani (10:40):
yeah, he's more of a private person.
Simone (10:46):
And then he would say to me.
I don't know what your problemis, It must be something to do
with you because it neverhappens with me.
And then I would feel like maybethere was something wrong with
the way I parented that I wasletting Yani get away with too
much or that I was a pushover orall those types of things, But
(11:08):
actually like within myself,when Yani and I would navigate
things, I would know I was onthe right track.
But, when he spoke to me likethat, I sometimes questioned
myself.
Yani (11:23):
I knew that my dad thought that about my mum.
I don't remember if you told meor he did.
Probably both.
Either way I knew that that wasa thing and that he had feelings
like, oh, your mum isn't reallydoing that right.
And I didn't like that at all.
I was pretty mad about itbecause I knew that she was
(11:45):
doing it better than he was.
I was a kid who knew what bestfor me.
And adults don't always thinkthat about kids.
They think kids don't know whatthey want or what they need.
They think kids like, don't knowwhat's best for them, but they
do.
A lot of the time they do.
Simone (12:06):
I think sometimes parents think that they have to
behave in certain ways becauseof the way other people think
about them.
Like if their kid doesn't go toschool, that there's something
wrong with them as a parent youknow, because that's what you're
meant to do.
So, to sort of start moving awayfrom that feels a bit edgy.
(12:27):
Yeah,
Leisa Reichelt (12:30):
So Yani went back to the mainstream primary
school for various reasons, andthat was not great.
Yani (12:41):
No, So for grade three, when I was about eight, I had to
leave the independent school andI went to a public school.
There was a lot of differences.
After you've been in anindependent school from kinder
to year two, it's quite a shockgo to a public school after
that.
Leisa Reichelt (13:02):
What were the differences?
Yani (13:05):
The main thing was the amount of people and the way
they did things were sodifferent.
I remember the first day I wentinto the classroom and there was
like 30 kids in the classrunning around in all different
directions and screaming I waslike, whoa, this is a bit
strange.
I don't know what to think aboutthis.
(13:27):
I remember teachers were kind ofdifferent.
They sort of felt like, theydidn't have the same connection
with the kids.
Obviously they didn't know themas well.
Or they hadn't known them aslong.
In the independent school, allof the kids knew the teachers so
well that it was like, you know,we went on school camps
(13:50):
together.
We like grew up together fromlike kinder to year two.
And that's like a tight knitthing.
If you go into public school,all of these kids don't know
each other that well.
The teachers don't know the kidsthat well.
You do like the circle thing andeverybody's like, say one thing
about yourself.
But in, in the independentschool, you wouldn't have never
(14:12):
done that because you alreadyknew everything about that kid.
Leisa Reichelt (14:16):
So that connection seems like it's
really important to you.
And so getting to school wasstill really challenging through
this primary school era.
Yani (14:25):
Mm-hmm.
Especially If I was with mum, Iwould get dropped off at school
on a Friday.
I would go to school, and thenmy dad would pick me up later
that day.
I would have afterschool carebecause he wouldn't pick me up
till five whenever he got offwork.
Simone (14:43):
yeah.
And that time, you know, Isuppose Yani did start not being
able to go to school regularlywhen they were with me.
It would be on the day that,they would be going back to
their dad.
that day would be particularlyhard, but there would be other
(15:04):
days during the week where itwould happen as well.
By this stage I was working andmy job was pretty intense.
We'd often get to the gate andYani wouldn't be able to get
out.
And I'd know that I was expectedto be at work and sometimes I'd
have to call and say, I justcan't come, They knew enough to
(15:25):
sort of know what the situationwas.
Yeah, sometimes we just wouldn'tbe able to go.
By that stage I'd worked outthat I needed to reduce my
hours.
I knew that I needed to have arelationship with Yani's school.
By this stage, Yani had adiagnosis of dyslexia and I had
(15:50):
to articulate Yani's needs tothe teachers who didn't
completely understand some ofthose things.
Were pretty rigid in the waythey did things.
I think they thought that I wasbeing difficult a fair bit of
the time and,
Yani (16:08):
And not only did they just think that about mum.
They thought that about me too.
Which I think is ridiculousbecause you think a kid is being
difficult when they literallyhave a learning disability and
just know what they want andknow how they want to be taught.
And you have only been taughthow to teach that kid in a very
(16:31):
specific way.
And you think that if you don'tteach the kid in that way, it's
wrong.
And if the kid says, you arewrong, the teacher gets upset
because they don't like beingcalled out by a 9-year-old.
But that's what I did.
Simone (16:46):
You did do it a couple of times because Yani was
determined not to be perceivedto be less intelligent because
of learning, differences, Andyeah, the teacher didn't always
like it when Yani would besaying, no, don't give me that
other work.
Like, I want the same work.
Like, don't patronize me.
(17:08):
I'm not stupid.
You know?
And, and Yani was little blonde,cute, and,
Leisa Reichelt (17:14):
Pretty fiery by the sounds of it.
Simone (17:16):
Thank goodness for that.
Yani (17:17):
you know, mum used to say that me and my brother's name
should have been switchedbecause my name means peaceful
and my brother's name meansfiery, he's more peaceful and
I'm more fiery.
Leisa Reichelt (17:32):
So you enjoyed the learning Yani, even though
it wasn't always taught to youin a way that made sense.
Yani (17:37):
I really liked history.
As a kid, that was my favoritething.
I remember that I used to getmore homework than the other
kids and I hated that because Ifelt different than everybody
else and I had to do more work Ididn't like being treated
differently, but I still likedthe work and wanted to do the
(17:58):
same work as everybody else,even though it was harder for me
to do it than it was for them.
Simone (18:04):
And sometimes I think staying at school was hard
because sometimes you would getupset at school.
Like kids would see you upset.
Yani (18:14):
There was a day when my mum, it was a Friday, she
dropped me off and like I reallydidn't wanna go.
And I like, fought it as hard asI possibly could and she tried
as hard as she could to get meto stay there.
In the end I did.
But like, I think I got there, Igot there late, I'd like chased
(18:34):
her up the path and told her tostop and not leave me there.
And, once I actually got in theclassroom, I don't remember how
she got me to stay.
Maybe you called the principalor something and got me to go in
there.
And once I actually sat in theclassroom, the teacher asked me
what my favourite animal was orsomething, because it was a
(18:58):
thing they did for the rollcall.
They would call out everybody'sname and then say like, what's
your favorite animal?
And I said, giraffe.
And then I just started cryingAnd all the kids looked at me
and I was just so, I was like,oh my God.
Like go away.
Like I thought they would haveso many opinions about me
(19:19):
because I had different stuffgoing on than they did.
And I already felt different toeverybody else because of the
way that my parents were, theway that I was like always late
to school.
One week I was early, the otherweek I was late.
It was just that.
(19:40):
And then also I was dyslexic.
Well, I still am.
The teacher would like call meup and make me read the roll
call.
I couldn't read properly and Ijust, I just felt like very
different to the other kidsthere, which didn't help with
the fact that I didn't wanna bethere in the first place.
Simone (19:58):
Which is why I think sometimes it was important that
Yani did have days off.
It must have been exhausting.
You know, if you really look atyour kid with your eyes open and
you look at things from theirperspective rather than your
own, and there's a moment wherethat happens, I think where you,
like I knew that they couldn'tgo to school all the time, so I
(20:19):
suppose sometimes I justaccepted that that was how that
day was gonna be and didn't givemyself too much of a hard time
about making that decision.
We sometimes actually had a goodtime and, that was important for
(20:43):
Yani's, wellbeing and ourrelationship and my wellbeing as
well.
It was interesting how often bythe early afternoon Yani would
be playing schools.
So like, it wasn't that theydidn't want to be at school or
(21:03):
didn't like the idea of school.
It was just the way it wasdelivered.
And yeah, one day we have totalk about is the memorable day
where we wagged the daytogether.
Leisa Reichelt (21:14):
This is Beach Day, yeah?
Yani (21:16):
Mm-hmm.
Simone (21:16):
Yeah.
Leisa Reichelt (21:17):
Tell us about Beach Day.
Yani (21:18):
so I got dressed, got in the car, we drove to school, got
to the gate, I was like, I'm notgoing in there, mum, I'm not
going.
And I don't remember what youdid.
I only remember the part whereyou were like, oh, I'm not doing
this again.
I don't care.
Let's just go to the beach.
(21:40):
I was like, okay, let's go.
And I really like that about mymum.
quite spontaneous sometimes, andespecially when I was a kid.
And we had a lot going on.
Sometimes you would just come upwith something really fun to do
sort of make up for it.
And sometimes I couldn't predictwhat you were gonna do.
Like I had no idea.
Simone (21:59):
I don't think it was to make up for it.
It was more to let go of, tryingto make things different,
Leisa Reichelt (22:07):
What's your version of Beach Day, Simone?
Simone (22:10):
My version of Beach Day, it was, stuff it, we're not
doing it like this, thisactually really doesn't matter.
It actually doesn't matter.
And who gives a stuff if wedon't do what we are meant to.
Um, we're just gonna totally,drop it and do what we need to
(22:30):
do.
And so I took Yani to the opshop.
Yani (22:32):
I only had school clothes.
Simone (22:33):
I promised that we were going to the beach.
I didn't want Yani to be intheir school clothes all day.
I'm like, come on, let's go tothe op shop and we'll buy you
some clothes to wear and we'regonna go to the shop and get
some really good food and we'rejust gonna go to the beach.
And so that's what we did.
And it was sort of fun andliberating and edgy just to sort
(22:54):
of like, walk into the op shopand go stuff It you know, take
school clothes off and getyourself something, and off we
go.
And we both remember that day asvery special I think.
Yani (23:07):
Yeah.
I think my favorite part wasseeing my mum as somebody who
was fun and not just somebodywho made me do things that I
really, really, really didn'twanna do.
And it was sort of likesometimes she would like take me
to the movies on a Friday nightor something and I got to see
(23:28):
the part of my mum that was thefun part, but I didn't get to
see that much because school andwork make your parents seem like
just this boring person so,yeah, but then she would do
something like that and I wouldbe pretty impressed.
Simone (23:41):
I suppose it's also saying, there's other ways we
can do this.
How else can this be, I thinkthat was important like that's
how it was for the rest of yourexperience of primary school,
was that you sort of had daysoff, like right till the end of
(24:02):
grade six.
Yeah.
Leisa Reichelt (24:04):
Let's talk about high school then.
So the joys of primary schoolwere behind us and we were
moving onto high school, freshnew start.
How did that work out?
Simone (24:14):
So, we moved from Tasmania to Victoria at the end
of Yani's grade six.
I thought maybe Yani couldrepeat grade six.
Like that was one option I putto them was maybe you could do
grade six again.
Yani (24:32):
And I was just like, oh, I don't wanna do that again.
and I was like, no mum.
I'd rather go to this giantschool where I don't know
anybody and I don't know any ofthe teachers, and it's 40
minutes away on the bus.
I'd rather do that.
Simone (24:49):
And the other option was a small, sort of like country
school, which I thought couldhave been nice for Yani because
it was on some land, it hadtrees and, less kids.
but the one Yani went to, Ithink it was mostly that Yani
could see values they related tothroughout the presentation of
(25:11):
the building.
that was really it, wasn't it?
Yani (25:14):
I liked it because, well, I saw that it was big and I saw
the environment and I was like,I don't care.
I think my idea of the futurewas a bit different back then.
I sort of couldn't imagine thefuture.
I just thought, oh, this schoolis the best school they have
better values than the otherones.
(25:34):
And, whatever.
I don't care if it's big.
That's a problem for somebodyelse.
That's, that's for future Yani.
I don't care.
I wanted to go there, eventhough mum told me to go to the
smaller one, she was like, youshould probably choose this one
'cause it's smaller and you'lllike it more.
And I was like, no.
Leisa Reichelt (25:52):
You know your own mind.
How did it work out?
Yani (25:57):
I went there for a term.
The second term was whenlockdown happened.
But when I actually startedgoing to year seven at that
school, I realized that Iactually hated it and that it
was different than I hadimagined I didn't feel like the
students were supported verywell.
(26:17):
It was kind of just likeeverybody looks after themself
and nobody really cares aboutanybody else.
That's how it feels.
I think that's a big schoolthing because you might make
friends, especially in yearseven just because you need
them.
You might not even like them,they're just your friends
(26:37):
because you have to have friendsbecause you need somebody to
rely on.
The teachers are busy with liketheir 1000 million students that
they're just like running arounddying of children.
Then their jobs are so difficultAnd the kids, especially the
(26:57):
younger ones, don't really knowwhat they're doing.
We had to look after each othereven though we didn't really
want to necessarily.
Leisa Reichelt (27:06):
How about we talk about the transition you
guys made from this giganticschool to home education.
How did that come about?
Yani (27:18):
Well, COVID happened.
So everyone started doing onlineschool and lot of kids were
like, ew! What is this?
I don't wanna do this.
And I was one of those kids.
Simone (27:33):
it wasn't just that you didn't wanna do it though, it
was really hard for you.
Yani (27:37):
No, didn't, I didn't wanna do it.
Simone (27:38):
It was really hard for you though.
Yani (27:39):
It was hard because the teachers weren't there to like,
tell you what you were actuallysupposed to be doing.
And it was just stupid.
I didn't like it.
Nobody did.
I don't think I've ever met asingle person who was like, I
love online school.
I liked doing my work, but if Ididn't have to do it and it was
something complicated that Ididn't enjoy, I wasn't gonna do
(28:00):
it.
I would try and do it because Iwas stubborn.
But if I really didn't wanna doit, then I probably wouldn't.
Simone (28:09):
Well, for you to have done it, it would've taken you
longer than the actual hoursthat you had to spend online as
well.
We would've had to do a wholeheap more work.
And I don't think either of uswere resourced enough to do
that.
And Yani had already had, beingunable to go to school before
the lockdowns
Yani (28:29):
obviously.
That's the whole point of thispodcast.
Simone (28:31):
Yeah.
But I mean, before, like in yearseven, in that first term, there
were, days that you couldn't goto school, and it was a
combination of all of that stuffto do with school and then
having to travel there.,
Yani (28:43):
Well, yeah, because it was a big school.
I had to get up at 6:00 AM, geton the bus for like half an
hour, drive around to all thesedifferent schools, drop a lot
other kids off, go to school forlike six hours, go to all these
different classes in differentplaces of the school, figure out
where I was going, figure outhow to unlock my locker, fight
(29:04):
all the kids to get there, doall of that, and then deal with
social issues.
Then get back on the bus at likethree, get home at four o'clock,
have dinner and go to bed.
Do it again.
Five days in a row, like, and Iwas 12.
Leisa Reichelt (29:22):
It sounds almost as boring as being an adult.
Yani (29:24):
I think it's worse.
I think it's worse.
And
Leisa Reichelt (29:29):
Yeah.
Simone (29:29):
so Yani hadn't been able to go to school sometimes before
the lockdown, but then theschool tried to offer some extra
support to reengage.
But it didn't really seem,
Yani (29:40):
Are you talking about when you tried to get me to go back
and I was very stuck on the ideaof not going back.
And we went into that meetingand they were like, Ooh, how
about you just go one day aweek?
And I was like, nup, you can'tconvince me.
And I was just like, I'm noteven learning anything.
I'm just wasting all my energyon getting there.
(30:00):
Dealing with all the people anddoing nothing and not even
learning anything.
And I was just like, this isstupid.
And mum was like, should I tryand get you to go back or like,
what do I do?
Simone (30:12):
from my perspective there just wasn't enough support
for Yani to be able to exist atschool.
And, so basically we juststopped.
Yani (30:21):
But there was the moment where I was just like, no,
Again, sort of like the samefeeling as the day we wagged
school at our beach day.
it was like, I don't careanymore.
this is not working.
we don't have to do it this way.
I don't know what we're gonnado, we are not doing that
anymore.
Like, I'm done with trying to dothat and I don't know what's
(30:44):
gonna happen, but I'm just gonnalet go.
I did feel like we didn't have achoice actually.
Then when we registered forhomeschooling, I wrote up a
really good and very idealisticlearning plan for Yani's
homeschooling experience.
(31:06):
I was very capable of doingthat.
But the idea and the ideal ofhomeschooling and the reality of
it are two very different thingswhen there's not really any
support to help you.
Simone (31:23):
I really needed practical support and a, and a,
um, you know, like mentor andlike a paid person who would
guide me and support me.
But we didn't have that and Iwas pretty burnt out I was
exhausted.
And so I sort of had to decidethat the way that Yani was gonna
(31:46):
have to learn was just from lifereally.
Yani (31:49):
I didn't have a choice either.
And that's what I wanted becauseI knew there was no other
choice.
if I had another choice, Iprobably would've chosen it.
But there wasn't another choiceI wanted to learn things.
I wasn't like, oh, I don't wannabe at school'cause I don't like
learning.
I loved learning and I still do.
Leisa Reichelt (32:09):
How were those years of homeschooling for you,
Yani?
Yani (32:12):
Part of it was good and part of it was horrible.
I really liked it especially atthe start because it's exactly
what I needed at the time.
Especially in COVID time, I justneeded a break from school.
Like completely.
I just needed to forget schoolexisted and hang around in the
garden and be with mum becausethere was already so much going
(32:34):
on with us, it was good just tolet go of everything that was
going on and just like, hang outwith Nan We were just like a
little team we moved house acouple of times.
The first house we were in waslike the first era of
homeschooling, which was mainlylike, I don't care anymore.
(32:58):
Then we moved house and that wascloser to Nan and that was just
sort of like a bit more of arelaxed time.
I felt pretty relaxed.
I sort of wish that I had moreto do.
I was starting to get like, ohmy God, what the hell am I gonna
do with my life?
I'm just gonna have like, no wayof getting a job.
(33:18):
No way of like integrating intosociety and being a proper
person or whatever you call it.
At least I was like not astressed out teenager with all
of these exams and stuff to dealwith, I couldn't have dealt with
it at the time.
And I'll look back at it and belike, oh my God, look at all
(33:39):
this stuff I didn't do.
I wish I could have done it.
And I don't think it's fair thatI didn't get to but I couldn't
have done it even if I wantedto.
That's just the way that it is.
Simone (33:53):
And, I didn't feel very resourced to support Yani in
their learning.
I've always trusted that theywanna learn and that they have
capacity to find the informationthat they need and follow their
own interests and ideas andthings.
Leisa Reichelt (34:10):
Let's fast forward to the present time
then, shall we?
So we've been through thesereally difficult school times.
We've kind of disengaged fromschool and spent this time in
more of a home education,freeform type, teach yourself
kind of situation for a while.
Yani, you said you were startingto be concerned about like, what
am I gonna do with my life?
(34:32):
Where are we now?
What's going on?
Yani (34:35):
We had a period of time, early last year maybe, where
this woman came from, thereconnect place.
Her job was to try and get me toreconnect with education.
And at that time I was like, Ew,I'm not doing that.
That's disgusting.
And she recommended that I couldtry and go to TAFE and I was
(34:55):
like, oh my God, what the hellare you thinking?
That's half an hour away Andthese are adult courses.
I wasn't ready for that yet.
I felt pretty threatened by theidea of it, because I didn't
know anything else really, apartfrom the experiences that I'd
already had and not being ineducation for quite a while at
(35:18):
that point, I was like, well, ifyou're trying to get me back
into that, it's just not gonnawork.
But, then we ended up moving Soonce we did that, I was a lot
closer to education that I couldaccess and I started to sort of
like widen my horizons with thepeople that I met and things
(35:40):
that I started doing.
And I ended up doing this artcourse at TAFE and meeting a
bunch of people and realizingthat like, education could be
good, but I think the only waythat I could ever have a good
education would be if I wastreated like an adult, or
(36:01):
literally being an adult.
As a kid, I wasn't the type ofkid that you could talk to like
a kid.
I was the type of kid that waslike, tell me how it is, tell me
the truth.
Don't sugarcoat anything becauseI'm gonna see right through it
anyway and I'm gonna thinkyou're trying to suck up to me
Leisa Reichelt (36:18):
That makes tons of sense.
Yani (36:20):
yeah,
Leisa Reichelt (36:22):
So you're doing art course now.
Yani (36:24):
Yeah, more than halfway through now
Leisa Reichelt (36:30):
you having trouble going to that or is that
easy to attend or?
Yani (36:34):
that's always been easy.
I think at the start I was a bitintimidated because it's like a
bunch of adults and they treatyou like an adult and that's
what I kind of wanted or needed.
But at the same time, I didn'tknow how to do that because I'd
never done that before.
I'd been with mum for a longtime and not really even gone to
(36:56):
a restaurant on my own or goneto the shop on my own.
I didn't know like at all how tobe an adult.
Starting to go there with all ofthese adults was like, whoa,
okay.
Like I'm gonna have to like bereally independent here.
I was like, I don't know how todo that yet.
But I think it took me like halfa term and then I was like, oh,
(37:20):
I know how to do this.
This is okay.
I figured it out.
Leisa Reichelt (37:24):
So what are you gonna do once you finish the art
course?
Yani (37:29):
Mum suggested that like, I could try going to like, because
they do high school at TAFE andI didn't know about that, but
she was like, oh, you could doyear 11 and 12 at TAFE.
And I was like, oh yeah, then Icould finally finish my high
school education even though Inever really started it.
and get that over with so I canmove on to more like Adult
(37:49):
Education, getting a job, doingall of that type of thing.
So, my mum found out that therewas like a exemption process for
how old you had to be when youwent into that course.
and she like sent an email tothe teacher and so I got, I got
accepted into doing that fornext year.
Leisa Reichelt (38:10):
Yay, hooray for mum.
Yani (38:12):
Mm-hmm.
Leisa Reichelt (38:14):
That's so cool.
what do you think Yani is theplan after that, have you got a
bit of a vision for what you seeyourself doing in the next
couple of years?
Yani (38:23):
Well I have the rest of this year I'm doing the art
course.
After that next year I'm gonnado year 11.
And because that has workrelated skills as a subject, I'm
gonna do early education forthat.
And there's a work placement forthat as well.
(38:44):
So through doing year 11 and 12.
You get quite a lot of workexperience and from there you
can move on to the workforce ordoing more education if you want
So my plan Is to go from doingthe rest of high school
education to working andwhatever else I find that I
wanna do.
Leisa Reichelt (39:04):
Amazing.
about you, Simone?
Simone (39:06):
yeah.
So, it's a new phase of life forme, really.
Maybe a little overdue.
I will be reentering theworkforce.
Financially we need to, but alsofor me as a middle-aged woman.
to sort of, I guess, reclaimsome of my, and I don't know how
possible it even is to do, butI'm pretty poor, you know, I've
(39:30):
made decisions, based on theneeds of Yani for quite some
time.
Leisa Reichelt (39:34):
Mm-hmm.
Simone (39:35):
I'm just starting to look for work.
It's, sort of scary.
and I feel a little bit behindthe eight ball in terms of where
I am in life and, and even inapplying for jobs to sort of
like explain I've been doing.
I feel a bit behind the eightball, but I'm actually really
looking forward to getting backto work as well.
Leisa Reichelt (39:55):
Yeah, I can imagine.
Thank you so much for sharingthis story.
It's been so amazing to talk toyou both.
I just wanna wrap up with aclosing question each for you.
Might start with you, Simone.
If you could go back to thebeginning when, Yani was in
daycare, early, early days, withall of the knowledge in the
(40:17):
experience that you have today,What would you tell yourself?
Simone (40:22):
I would say trust what you feel in your body.
You know the answers.
You're an awesome mum.
You love your child Listen tothem be guided by them and trust
yourself.
it's gonna be okay.
it is okay.
You are fine.
your, child is fine.
(40:43):
Trust your judgment You are notgonna have the same path as
other people, but you'll end upin some really interesting
places and it'll be worth it,
Leisa Reichelt (40:53):
That's lovely.
And Yani, you've got loads ofpeople listening now who have
either got kids who are havingtrouble getting up and getting
dressed to go to school orgetting out of the car when
they're at the school gate, andmaybe some teachers listening
who've got kids who don't wannacome into school.
(41:13):
What is one thing that you wantall of them to know?
No pressure.
Yani (41:20):
I think the main thing that I would want to tell an
adult around that child would bethat the child isn't trying to
be an inconvenience or make lifeharder for the adults around
them.
School is just not an easy thingfor a kid.
That kid may not do things inthe same way that other kids
will end up doing them.
(41:41):
I think that is fine.
Sometimes you just have toaccept that and find your own
way of doing it.
Leisa Reichelt (41:50):
Thank you so much for coming and sharing your
story with us today.
It's been lovely having the twoof you on together.
Simone (41:56):
Thank you.
Thanks for inviting us.
Leisa Reichelt (41:59):
There is so much to take away from Yani and
Simone's story, I think but theone thing that really stands out
for me is the beautifulconnection between the two of
them that has survived andthrived despite the challenges
they've faced together over theyears.
I found it a really importantreminder of the importance of
prioritizing that parent-childconnection.
No matter what else the worldmight be telling us is so
(42:20):
important.
If you found this podcasthelpful, please do take a moment
to subscribe or maybe give us arating or a review.
This really does help us get thepodcast in front of more people
who have School Can't kids, andwho haven't found the community
and all the information weshare.
If you have some feedback forus, a suggestion for a future
topic, or maybe you've beeninspired to share your own lived
(42:41):
experience story, please drop mean email to
schoolcantpodcast@gmail.com.
And I would love to hear fromyou.
If you are a parent or carer inAustralia and you're feeling
distressed, remember you canalways call the Parent Helpline
in your state.
A link with the number to callis in the episode notes.
Thank you again for listening,and we will talk again soon.
(43:03):
Take care.
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