March 17, 2025 • 29 mins
In this first 'Lived Experience' episode, Jane Nicholson, mother of three neurodivergent boys, shares her family's challenges with mainstream schooling and their decision to home educate two of their sons due to ‘School Can’t’ induced stress and trauma.
Jane discusses the deschooling process, creating a flexible educational Unschooling environment, the challenges of finding your Home Education ‘tribe’ and the mental health benefits of Home Education.
If you have a School Can't Experience that you'd like to share on a future Lived Experience episode, you can email us at schoolcantpodcast@gmail.com
Useful resources:
- Dr Ross Greene’s Collaborative Problem Solving (CPS) framework - https://livesinthebalance.org/
- Dr Naomi Fisher’s book, ‘Changing Our Minds’ - https://naomifisher.co.uk/books/changing-our-minds/
- Accidental Homeschool - Jane’s blog about their experience with home education - https://www.accidentalhomeschool.com/
- School Can’t Australia Facebook Community - https://www.facebook.com/groups/schoolphobiaschoolrefusalaustralia
- Make a donation to School Can’t Australia - https://www.schoolcantaustralia.com.au/get-involved
If you are a parent of carer in Australia and experiencing distress, please call Lifeline on 13 11 14 or contact the Parent Help Line. - https://kidshelpline.com.au/parents/issues/how-parentline-can-help-you
You can contact us to volunteer to share your School Can't story or some feedback via email on schoolcantpodcast@gmail.com
Disclaimer
The content of this podcast is based on personal lived experiences and is shared for informational and storytelling purposes only. It should not be treated as medical, psychological, or professional advice under any circumstances. If you have concerns about your health or well-being, please seek guidance from a doctor, therapist, or other qualified professional.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Leisa Reichelt (00:05):
Hello and welcome to the School Can't
Experience Podcast.
I'm Leisa Reichelt and thispodcast is brought to you by the
School Can't AustraliaCommunity.
Caring for a young person who isstruggling to attend school can
be a stressful and isolatingexperience, but you are not
alone.
Thousands of parents acrossAustralia and many more around
the world face similarchallenges and experiences every
(00:26):
day.
Today we're gonna hear onemother's experience with School
Can't in our first of what wecall our Lived Experience
episodes.
Jane Nicholson is joining us.
She is a mom to threeneurodivergent boys, one of whom
is attending school, and theother two are now being home
educated.
Jane is going to share some ofthe experiences that her family
(00:46):
has had in working with schools,with School Can't, and the
journey that they've been on tofind ways for the boys to learn
and to thrive.
Jane, thank you so much forjoining us.
Just give us a little bit of aoverview, Who are you?
Tell us a little bit about yourfamily.
Jane (01:02):
We live in regional New South Wales.
We moved from Sydney when ourkids were a bit younger.
We have three kids, all sons, 9,11, and 14.
And all neurodivergent.
We've got a mix of autism andADHD.
We have one child in highschool, and our two younger ones
we homeschool.
(01:23):
I'm fortunate enough to have ahusband that works from home so
I can leave the kids and duckout for five minutes if I need a
walk or something torecalibrate.
But yeah, that's pretty much usin a nutshell.
Leisa Reichelt (01:34):
And Jane, are you working as well or is
homeschooling your full-time gignow?
Jane (01:38):
So, I did have to give up work.
I was working full-time when wewere in Sydney.
Then I tried to run my ownbusiness.
It was actually going quitewell.
Because of School Can't, I wasgetting unpredictable phone
calls all the time, which madeit impossible.
Even with my own business, Istill had to drop everything and
(01:59):
run.
It took up a lot of headspacedealing with School Can't, so
that kind of prevented me fromdoing what I needed to do.
So, no, I'm full-timehomeschooling.
Leisa Reichelt (02:09):
I would love to hear your story of how you came
to Home Education.
How did that become a part ofyour life?
Jane (02:15):
It was absolutely the last option on the list.
It wasn't even a thought when westarted out.
Schools don't talk about it.
Professionals don't talk aboutit.
Our middle son was in school forthree and a half years before we
started homeschooling him.
We did that on a short termbasis while we were waiting to
get into a support unit.
So we tried a support unit aswell.
(02:37):
That only lasted a term.
So we've been homeschoolingsince then.
Our youngest has attachmentissues, from 10 months old.
When I used to drop him off atdaycare, he would scream the
house down for like an hour tothe point where my husband
actually had to start taking himfor those drop offs.
because if I did it, it was justtoo unbearable for everyone
(02:57):
involved.
He ended up doing six months inkindergarten before we pulled
the plug and startedhomeschooling'cause it was just
too stressful.
I was already homeschooling ourother child.
And our choice to go tohomeschool, it was very much a
mental health issue.
Our middle child, he had majorSchool Can't would rip all his
(03:18):
clothes off, hide under the bed.
So we physically couldn't takehim to school.
He's autistic and would have 45minute meltdowns every single
day.
And they were horrific likewe're talking...
breaking things, trashing rooms.
We went through, I think aboutsix televisions.
yeah, it was a lot
Leisa Reichelt (03:37):
Wow.
Jane (03:38):
And yeah, so it was really, really hard.
The advice from school was justbe consistent.
Just keep coming, keep going.
And the, specialists were like,yep, school's the best place.
We've gotta work on theaccommodations.
Make it work.
It was just getting worse.
And he was an absconder.
So he actually made it off theschool premises a couple of
(03:58):
times and was nearly hit by acar one time.
So it was pretty intense.
A member of the public actuallygrabbed him from going in front
of a car.
So obviously my anxiety wentthrough the roof.
We were told it was a safeschool.
It had lower fences, and wastold that, you know, these kids,
it's fine.
We deal with them all the time.
But clearly they hadn't dealwith mine because he made it off
(04:19):
the premises.
And even during the time in thesupport unit, he was just
absconding.
He would just get running out ofthe classroom.
Clearly did not want to bethere.
Took a huge toll on all of us.
So with mental health and alsophysical safety, because I was
worried if I'd be able to get mychild home in one piece at the
(04:39):
end of each day.
So it was pretty horrific.
And we did hesitate for ages tomove to homeschooling.
It's just wasn't on my radar.
I don't know, anyone who did it,for me it was homeschooling was
more people with more extremeviews or their own personal
beliefs that kept them out ofmainstream school.
I'm very much a mainstreamperson.
(05:00):
It did take a long time to getthere with our middle child and
then with our youngest, aftersix months I went, I know where
this is going, and we all needto not be here
Leisa Reichelt (05:09):
Yeah.
Jane (05:10):
yeah.
Leisa Reichelt (05:10):
And meanwhile, you had your eldest going off to
school.
Jane (05:13):
He ended up going off to school.
He loves school.
There was a little bit in upperprimary where he was struggling
in class a bit and we met again,and that's when he got ADHD
diagnosis.
but he, he's fine.
He goes to school.
He loves it.
He enjoys it.
He's met his people.
He's really happy.
Leisa Reichelt (05:31):
Okay, so tried school.
Advised to try to keep themiddle one in school.
Is that Chalk or Cheese is themiddle one?
Cheese
Jane (05:42):
Yes, we have Cheese and Chalk, who I talk about on our
blog.
Cheese is autistic.
We call him Cheese because he'svery mature.
He really loves the company ofolder people, whereas Chalk is
colourful, messy, hectic.
yeah, that's where we've gottheir names from.
Leisa Reichelt (06:00):
Excellent pseudonyms.
I love them very much.
So you got to the point whereschool clearly wasn't working
and I think you said HomeEducation was effectively like
last resort.
How did you make thattransition?
What was the approach?
Jane (06:15):
It was done with great hesitancy.
It's not something that I wantedto do.
I didn't have confidence in myown abilities to do it.
I'm not a teacher and you know,no one wants to spend 24 hours,
seven days a week with theirkids as lovely as they are.
You do need a break.
Basically, it got to the pointwhere there was no other option.
Everything was just too hard.
So we just jumped in.
(06:38):
I think I did the big mistake ofwhat a lot of people do is
recreate school at home.
I spent quite a bit of money onoff the shelf curriculums'cause
I didn't have the confidence.
I was like, right, I needsomeone to tell me what to do.
That's one of the hardestthings.
In that initial stages,homeschooling it is so
overwhelming, because there's noone way to do it.
(06:59):
There are no instructions ofthis is how you homeschool.
And there's so many differentforms.
There's, you know, unschooling,there's varied different forms
of online support services,distance education, game
schooling.
The choices are endless.
And for a new person who didn'twant to homeschool.
It is extremely overwhelming.
(07:20):
The information on the NESAwebsite at the time, was teacher
lingo.
So I'm reading it and I'm, whatis this that they're saying?
I don't understand.
So that was a really, big thingto get my head around.
I was lucky enough to reach out.
We have a great homeschoolgroup, locally, and I reached
out and tried to just meet withsome homeschool parents
(07:44):
one-on-one to go, look, what isthis like?
What is it about?
I don't understand.
And everyone was saying, don'tworry, it's a lot simpler than
you think.
You're overcomplicating it.
So I think a lot of it was myown anxiety about what am I
doing?
Leisa Reichelt (07:59):
I'd be interested to know how did
Cheese react to this?
At first when you were like,alright, we're not gonna do the
school thing anymore, we'regonna do it at home instead,
What was his journey like?
Jane (08:12):
Oh, he was happy as Larry.
He did have a trauma response toschool, so he did have PTSD
from, that's how assaulted hissenses were I quickly found out
that we weren't going to be ableto do anything that looked like
school.
And from the kind ofconversations and researching I
did, I found out aboutdeschooling, which is the
(08:32):
process of doing nothing ininverted commas.
It's kind of like a holiday.
Don't think about school, justheal from that experience and
the trauma and the stress ofdealing with the school system,
Letting your nervous systemreset.
Cheese went from, having 45minute meltdowns a day to none,
(08:53):
like zero.
I can't tell you the last timehe had one.
So that in itself, I thinkspeaks volumes.
We have a therapy swing in ourlounge room and he would spend
hours in that every day.
It gave him like a big hug, justthe nice pressure.
And he was happy doing that.
We read books, played games.
I got into video games with him.
Just whatever he wanted to doand enjoyed doing, I went with,
(09:17):
through that process, you get toforget everything you know about
school.
Just throw it out the window,and look at your child afresh.
What are their interests?
How do they learn?
What do they engage with?
Are they more engaged in themorning than the afternoon?
Is it inside?
Is it outside?
Is it going out in nature?
So now we have a very Unschooledapproach, which is.
(09:42):
We go with his interests whenhe's interested.
The more effort I put into alesson or a project, more likely
he is to go, nup, not for me.
It's nearly like you had ayounger kid, you might rotate
the toys in the baskets aroundthat's very much what we do with
him.
So I've got lots of hand-onmanipulatives.
So geometry sets and games areamazing because they have so
(10:06):
much learning in them, butthey're covert learning.
So just, yeah, going where he'sat and what he wants to do.
And then I kind ofretrospectively look at how he's
learned and what he's learning.
Because if I try and go from mypoint of view to him, it's not
gonna work, but looking at whathe's doing and go, okay, he's
just discovered this.
(10:26):
So we've got some really,there's just some moments where
you see things click and it is,it's magic.
We take a strength-basedapproach.
So we look at what he lovesdoing and work on that.
So he is a history boffin.
So we have got senior highschool teacher who comes in and
does tutoring, not with the goalof HSC or anything like that,
(10:49):
but just someone that can engagewith him on his level.
So he's in the equivalent ofYear Six now this woman is a
senior, 11/12, getting kidsready for the HSC and he's
teaching her things.
The knowledge, and just the joyof him engaging what he loves.
He's just, he's on cloud ninefor the rest of the day because
he's had all this time to speakfor someone, engage with someone
(11:11):
on a special interest level,which is fantastic for him.
Yeah.
Leisa Reichelt (11:16):
And how is he gathering that knowledge
himself?
Jane (11:18):
Um, it's, I suppose we notice a little interest in
something and then we startfeeding in more materials about
that interest.
So it started, for him itstarted off with dinosaurs, that
moved to reptiles, that moved todragons, that turned into
mythology.
And then from mythology, you getall these rich, great stories
and he'd be like researchingwhere in the world they were.
(11:39):
And then he got into Europeanpolitics for quite a while and
went quite deep into that.
I think just anything with goodstory, a bit of intrigue, a bit
of drama, from an historicalperspective really interests
him.
So yeah,
Leisa Reichelt (11:55):
I would love to hear if there is such a thing,
like what's a typical day in thelife from Cheese's perspective,
but then also from yourperspective, what's your day
like?
Jane (12:06):
Yeah.
Leisa Reichelt (12:06):
is that different to what it used to be?
Jane (12:08):
Yeah.
Okay.
So look, they're very relaxed.
Getting up in the morning is nota drama.
People can get up when they'reready to get up.
There's no packing lunches,there's no getting dressed in
uniforms that are too itchy.
It's just relaxed.
And so they both get up and justread.
We have a no screen time in themorning rule.
So they just read, they're justhanging out, vibing.
(12:30):
They're starting to make theirown breakfast more, which is
great for me.
Then we might have a bit ofscreen time and that's free time
for them to explore theirinterests.
That's very much for Cheese.
For Chalk, he's extremely ADHD,so any form of gaming, YouTube
sends him off his rocker.
(12:50):
We've had a lot of internaldiscussions about the different
neurotypes of brains and howbrains work differently.
So they both understand howtheir individual brains work.
They know that the way they usescreens is different.
Cheese will use screens to calmdown.
Chalk will it sends him crazy sohe can have regular TV, but
(13:11):
anything more interactive thanthat does not work for him.
You kind of go with the energyof the day, and the weather as
well.
So we have lots of games wemight play after that screen
break.
We might go take the dog for awalk.
We tend to not try and push toomuch into that morning period.
Then we have another break atlunchtime, and after lunch is
(13:32):
where we might try and do, anddo a science experiment or an
art activity or just, I've kindof got to go with where they're
at and try and help theactivities.
I end up doing more work withChalk at this point in time and
then Cheese will see what we'redoing and get involved with it.
Whereas before I'd be trying towork with Cheese and he'd be
(13:54):
like, no, you're telling me whatto do.
I can't do that.
So this is working really welland it gets him a lot more
involved.
We have homeschool catchups, sowe go to, a more social
Homeschool catch ups.
We have tried.
the more organized group ones,which are amazing, but I find
they work less forneurodivergent kids.
(14:15):
Because people homeschool for somany different reasons.
These people come together andthey try and recreate learning
experiences as opposed toprioritizing the social aspect.
So for us, they're a bit toomuch like school.
There are organized activities,there's noisy people and places.
So from a sensory perspective,those kind of groups didn't work
(14:36):
for us.
It was really hard.
I felt really isolated andwithout being able to attend
those groups locally, I had noconnection with, with any other
homeschoolers.
And that was really, reallyhard.
So, I ended up creating, a groupfor people in similar situation
just using Facebook and that'sbeen amazing.
(14:56):
You meet all different peoplefrom all different ages.
But coming from a point where wehad to homeschool because we
didn't have another choice, andthose mainstream opportunities
were so hard for our kids toaccess, there wasn't a lot
happening, and especially in aregional area as well, so.
Yeah, took a good 12 months, butnow we have a lovely small group
of people who are in the samesituation, and we can do social
(15:20):
opportunities out and about,which works really well.
Leisa Reichelt (15:24):
Talk a little bit more about the social side
of things, because it is oftensomething that people who are
considering Home Education areconcerned about.
Jane (15:32):
Yep,
Leisa Reichelt (15:32):
What are the different kinds of social
opportunities that your kids nowhave, you know, as part of their
standard week or month?
Jane (15:42):
So Cheese doesn't have any, he's very happy to be at
home in his own company.
He does come out if the event issomething he's interested in,
but if it's too social, he getssocial burnout and we'll have to
kind of retreat with hisheadphones and chill out
somewhere.
Chalk being the completeopposite, wants to go out and be
(16:02):
with all the people all thetime.
So, we're quite lucky where weare.
We have quite a range of bushschools or forest schools where
you can go with another bunch ofpeople for a day a week.
So as a parent you get a bit ofa break, so that's great.
And they're very nature based.
And also sign up for all thoseextracurricular activities.
(16:23):
So like Cubs, music classes, anykind of group extracurricular
activity is really good.
You often get just out and aboutspending time, living life, you
know, Chalk was, wouldn't sayboo to a goose, when he first
came out of school.
And now he just strikes uprandom conversations to the
person next in the, in theshopping line with us.
(16:45):
there are those kind of, socialopportunities.
Leisa Reichelt (16:48):
I feel hesitant asking this question, so feel
free to tell me to back off, butdo the boys have friends?
Jane (16:57):
They do, a small circle.
I think the older you get, theharder that is because the bush
schools and everything you cango to, they're more upper
primary.
So once you start getting tohigh school or if they're too
young, it can be a bit lonely.
I think Cheese enjoys beingaround people, not necessarily
(17:17):
interacting with them.
So friendship for him is a lotdifferent than it is for Chalk,
who just wants to be everywhereall the time.
So look, I think Chalk has amuch wider group of friends.
And it is something that we'reworking on with Cheese, and
there are a lot of great workthat therapists are doing around
(17:38):
social.
So they'll do a group socialactivity.
So he does like a gaming clubthat's facilitated by a speech
therapist.
There are ones that arefacilitated by OTs and it, it's
really good'cause it helps thekids connect with other people.
But also drive a lot moreself-awareness of how they're
feeling and if they've got anissue, how that can be discussed
(18:00):
and the therapists that are runit are just amazing at
facilitating that.
Leisa Reichelt (18:05):
I know boys are young at the moment, but as
parents we can't help but sortof look to the future and
imagine like where things aregonna go.
Jane (18:14):
Yeah.
Leisa Reichelt (18:15):
What are your thoughts on that?
What do you imagine for the boysas they grow up a little bit
more?
Jane (18:20):
Yeah, look, there's just been such a huge change over
time.
I try not to think too far inadvance because then I start
getting extremely anxious andit's just so unpredictable.
So Chalk, uh, he's quite young,so.
He may want to go back to schoolbecause he does want to be
around all those people.
(18:40):
I'm not sure if school will everhave the level of movement that
he needs, to remain regulated.
Cheese I can see absolutelydoing uni degrees in his own
way, in his own time.
You often find from homeschoolstudents, there's a lot of
research out there that they'remore likely to go to university
(19:01):
and once they are, they're a lotmore mature and stick with the
courses because its of theirinterest and they have chosen it
rather than someone coming outof traditional school going,
I've no idea what I'm meant todo now with all this
information.
So they know themselves, a lotmore as homeschoolers, which can
help, you know, drive theirpaths.
Leisa Reichelt (19:20):
I mean, it's scary for all of us, honestly,
who have got School Can't kids,isn't it?
So it doesn't really matterwhich direction you're going in.
You're always kind of justhoping for the absolute best.
Jane (19:31):
absolutely and something I wanted to mention on School
Can't, I think throughout oureducation journey, that for me
has been the absolute hardestpart.
Because you are living in limbo.
You don't know if you're goingto school, you don't know if
you're gonna home educate.
Each day is a take it and seehow it comes and it's crippling
(19:52):
from being able to hold a job,your mental health.
It's a really, really hardperiod.
And I would say definitely the'are we?, aren't we?' School
Can't experience is the hardestpart we've had so far.
Yeah.
I feel for everyone goingthrough it.
Leisa Reichelt (20:08):
yeah, it is extremely difficult.
When we were talking to PavlinaMcMaster in a earlier episode,
she sort of spoke to that alittle bit as well and said the
thing about Home Education isthat your life becomes a little
bit more predictable because youhave a little bit more control
over the shape of it, and you'renot always in this, in this
limbo that you talked about.
(20:29):
Has that been your experience aswell?
Jane (20:31):
Absolutely.
100%.
Yeah, you go with what works.
I'm very much a planner person,so I had to take a lot of deep
breaths and just go, no, we'regoing with where they're at.
And, but it works, you know, andjust to see the improvement in
their mental health fromemotionally broken children, to
absolutely thriving.
It's beautiful to watch.
(20:52):
Um, the other thing, whenthey're at school, they are so
stressed out, trying to keep ittogether.
They're not learning anything.
Whereas now they devour booksand information, its definitely
worth taking the plunge and it'salso not forever.
Homeschooling might be a choicefor a couple of years until your
child gets to a, a certainlevel, you know, maturity level
or you feel it's working.
What put me off making thedecision was I didn't have that
(21:15):
mentality.
I was like, you either go toschool or you're homeschooled.
I didn't really think that, ohyeah, maybe we could do this for
a little while and work withwhere you are at, at that
moment.
Leisa Reichelt (21:25):
That makes lots of sense.
You said you're a planner, andthat, but now you have to adapt
a lot more, but it sounds to meas though you are actually doing
a lot of background planning sothat you are ready to be able to
respond in the moment.
Is that a fair assessment?
Jane (21:39):
That is absolutely true.
Um, and Unschooling, I thinkUnschooling gets a bad rap from
a lot of people'cause it's like,oh, the kids just do what they
want.
Which is not the case.
You are a facilitator, and it'snearly like you're constantly
curating materials that mightengage them where they're at,
(21:59):
what they're interested in, andthen I also look at the
curriculum and what they should,"should" be learning go, okay,
so they're interested in that.
How could I work fractions intocutting up the pizza today?
Do you know what I mean?
So I'm kind of tackling it fromboth ends.
That's probably more for the waymy brain works I feel like I
(22:20):
need some kind of directionbecause the options are so
endless.
I need to feel like, right,okay.
I know we are covering thingsbecause I don't have a teaching
background and it, it, it isdifficult.
So yeah, it's a lot harder thanit looks, but it's also a lot
easier it looks in so many wayswhen it comes to the engagement
of learning.
Leisa Reichelt (22:41):
What about dealing with the authorities on,
on this side of thing as well?
I think there's a lot of kind ofunknown in terms of like what
you have to do to
Jane (22:49):
process.
Leisa Reichelt (22:50):
Yeah.
You know, especially in stateswhere some are more aggressive
than others in terms of how theypolice these things.
Like, what are you, what are youhaving to do to make sure that
everything's kind of where itneeds to be?
Jane (23:01):
Look, I didn't really have an issue with the process.
So we're in New South Wales,it's quite easy.
You apply online, you justanswer a couple of quick
questions and then there's up toa 12 week period where they will
contact you to make anappointment for a meeting with
an AP, and they come out, theyhave a look at your education
plan.
So that, for me, the first timeround was like, right.
(23:23):
I, I'm, I need to buy thesebecause I don't know what I'm
doing.
They come out.
Make sure that you understandthe learning, understand what
you need to learn.
You are judged on yourself as afacilitator, not what your child
knows.
So there is no failing from achild's perspective.
There's no testing.
And a lot of the time it isactually a welfare check as well
(23:44):
to make sure that, you know,it's a, it's a healthy
environment for your child to bein.
Yeah.
And I also found the APsextremely helpful.
A lot of them are ex-schoolteachers or principals, and they
see how many kids don't fit thesystem.
So they are there not to judgeyou, but to support you.
I think it is hard when parentsget to the point, it's like, we
(24:06):
have to start homeschooling now.
We cannot keep doing this, andthere's that 12 week wait
period.
schools don't like that.
They want you to keep coming toschool, so you often need to get
either a doctor's certificate ora, a note from one of your
specialists talking about themental health impact.
And also, the school then needsto do some paperwork for an
(24:27):
extended leave.
Um, and some of them just say,we're not doing it.
It's also connected to theirfunding as well.
So obviously if your, if yourchild has a diagnosis, that
amount of funding that they'vegot is a lot more, so it's not.
A process that they want to gothrough
Leisa Reichelt (24:43):
Understandable.
Okay.
We've covered so much groundhere today.
I've really, yeah.
This has been a really goodchat.
I'm gonna move us onto thoseclosing questions that we talked
about.
if you could go back in time andtell yourself something, when
would you go back to, what wouldyou say?
Jane (25:00):
I would probably go back to before they started school
and say, investigate homeschool.
And just do it Forneurodivergent kids, from our
experience.
Um, yeah, don't delay.
Don't hesitate making thatdecision.
Leisa Reichelt (25:18):
so not at the last resort, but bring it much
further forward.
Jane (25:23):
look, knowing what I know about the school system, it is
absolutely, um, a last resort,but I don't feel there's a
viable other option.
So if there was, I wouldabsolutely take it.
Leisa Reichelt (25:34):
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Fair enough.
What is something that you wouldlike to say to everybody who's
listening, who's on their ownSchool Can't journey at the
moment?
Jane (25:43):
I would say number one, prioritise mental health over
attendance.
And anyone who tries to push youotherwise is not healthy.
And also you have more optionsthan you're aware of.
So for me, homeschooling wasnever on the radar.
It was never discussed.
Schools won't discuss it becauseyou have to go to school.
(26:04):
And their job is to facilitateyou going to school, so they're
not gonna talk about otheroptions.
So just, yeah, mental health andresearch all the options out
there.
Leisa Reichelt (26:12):
Amazing.
And if there was one resourcethat, that you wish everybody
knew about and had access to,what would that be?
Jane (26:21):
I've got three
Leisa Reichelt (26:23):
I'll take three.
Three's also good
Jane (26:24):
It depends where you're at in your stage.
So if you are at school andtrying to make that work, I
think Dr.
Ross Greene, uh, with his CPSmodel, with working schools, it
puts the child at the center ofthe process and helps them
problem solve and facilitatemaking School Can't work.
I think often its left to theadults and the child's not
(26:46):
involved in that process.
That that is, I think, a really,really good one.
I didn't discover it until afterwe had started homeschooling,
but I know about it now and ifyou want to go to school, I
think it's a great model.
If you are hesitant abouthomeschooling, um, there's a
book by Dr.
Naomi Fisher, called ChangingOur Minds.
Um, and that looks at howchildren actually learn.
(27:10):
Because homeschooling is done inso many different ways there's
not really any research into it.
So you often hear about, howschools are falling behind in
reading or whatever, but thatdoesn't, there's no comparison
to homeschool.
So she does a great job ofexplaining how kids naturally
won't, you, you don't, you know,you don't get taught to walk.
You learn it.
(27:30):
Um, my kids, I didn't teach themto talk.
They picked it up and thatactually carries on throughout
the years.
So it, that's a really good one.
Leisa Reichelt (27:38):
Amazing.
Jane (27:38):
Yep.
Leisa Reichelt (27:39):
And the third one.
Jane (27:41):
I so I've started writing a blog, um, called Accidental
Homeschool.
And it's a what I wish I knewway back when.
And I try to do it with a senseof humour because otherwise I
would be in the fetal positionon the floor.
So, it's, it's a realistic viewof what it's been like for us.
Leisa Reichelt (27:59):
Starring Mr.
Chalk and Mr.
Cheese?
Jane (28:02):
Starring Chalk and Cheese.
Our neurospicy, 11 and 9 yearolds,
Leisa Reichelt (28:07):
Amazing.
Fantastic.
Well, Jane, thank you so much.
It's been just wonderful to hearabout the journey that you've
been on, and I'm so glad thatyou guys are in a good place
right now and the boys are alldoing really well.
Jane (28:18):
Yep.
Thank you very much.
Leisa Reichelt (28:19):
So what a privilege to hear Jane's story.
And thank you again, Jane.
I'm not sure about you.
But my experience as a SchoolCan't mum was a very lonely one
for a long time, and it oftenfelt like I was the only person
in the world dealing with thesechallenges.
Obviously that wasn't true, butI think we do have a tendency to
feel ashamed of what's happeningand to hide it.
And as a result, it can bereally hard to connect with
(28:41):
other School Can't parents.
We are hoping to share many moreSchool Can't Lived Experience
stories.
So if you have a School Can'tstory that you would like to
share, please email us atSchoolCantPodcast@gmail.com.
That's one wordschoolcantpodcast with no
apostrophe, obviously.
And you can send any feedbackthat you have to us at that
(29:02):
email as well.
So once again, that's-SchoolCantPodcast one word, no
apostrophe,@gmail.com.
We'll put a link to theresources Jane recommended in
the episode notes and also alink to donate to School Can't
Australia.
Your tax deductible donationshelp us to raise community
awareness, partner withresearchers, produce resources
(29:23):
like webinars and this verypodcast, and to assist people
who are supporting children andyoung people experiencing School
Can't.
If you are a parent or carer inAustralia and you're feeling
distressed, remember you canalways call the Parent Helpline
in your state.
A link with the number to callis in the episode notes.
Thank you again for listening,and we will talk again soon.
(29:44):
Take care.
Hello and welcome to the School Can't
Experience Podcast.
I'm Leisa Reichelt and thispodcast is brought to you by the
School Can't AustraliaCommunity.
Caring for a young person who isstruggling to attend school can
be a stressful and isolatingexperience, but you are not
alone.
Thousands of parents acrossAustralia and many more around
the world face similarchallenges and experiences every
(00:26):
day.
Today we're gonna hear onemother's experience with School
Can't in our first of what wecall our Lived Experience
episodes.
Jane Nicholson is joining us.
She is a mom to threeneurodivergent boys, one of whom
is attending school, and theother two are now being home
educated.
Jane is going to share some ofthe experiences that her family
(00:46):
has had in working with schools,with School Can't, and the
journey that they've been on tofind ways for the boys to learn
and to thrive.
Jane, thank you so much forjoining us.
Just give us a little bit of aoverview, Who are you?
Tell us a little bit about yourfamily.
Jane (01:02):
We live in regional New South Wales.
We moved from Sydney when ourkids were a bit younger.
We have three kids, all sons, 9,11, and 14.
And all neurodivergent.
We've got a mix of autism andADHD.
We have one child in highschool, and our two younger ones
we homeschool.
(01:23):
I'm fortunate enough to have ahusband that works from home so
I can leave the kids and duckout for five minutes if I need a
walk or something torecalibrate.
But yeah, that's pretty much usin a nutshell.
Leisa Reichelt (01:34):
And Jane, are you working as well or is
homeschooling your full-time gignow?
Jane (01:38):
So, I did have to give up work.
I was working full-time when wewere in Sydney.
Then I tried to run my ownbusiness.
It was actually going quitewell.
Because of School Can't, I wasgetting unpredictable phone
calls all the time, which madeit impossible.
Even with my own business, Istill had to drop everything and
(01:59):
run.
It took up a lot of headspacedealing with School Can't, so
that kind of prevented me fromdoing what I needed to do.
So, no, I'm full-timehomeschooling.
Leisa Reichelt (02:09):
I would love to hear your story of how you came
to Home Education.
How did that become a part ofyour life?
Jane (02:15):
It was absolutely the last option on the list.
It wasn't even a thought when westarted out.
Schools don't talk about it.
Professionals don't talk aboutit.
Our middle son was in school forthree and a half years before we
started homeschooling him.
We did that on a short termbasis while we were waiting to
get into a support unit.
So we tried a support unit aswell.
(02:37):
That only lasted a term.
So we've been homeschoolingsince then.
Our youngest has attachmentissues, from 10 months old.
When I used to drop him off atdaycare, he would scream the
house down for like an hour tothe point where my husband
actually had to start taking himfor those drop offs.
because if I did it, it was justtoo unbearable for everyone
(02:57):
involved.
He ended up doing six months inkindergarten before we pulled
the plug and startedhomeschooling'cause it was just
too stressful.
I was already homeschooling ourother child.
And our choice to go tohomeschool, it was very much a
mental health issue.
Our middle child, he had majorSchool Can't would rip all his
(03:18):
clothes off, hide under the bed.
So we physically couldn't takehim to school.
He's autistic and would have 45minute meltdowns every single
day.
And they were horrific likewe're talking...
breaking things, trashing rooms.
We went through, I think aboutsix televisions.
yeah, it was a lot
Leisa Reichelt (03:37):
Wow.
Jane (03:38):
And yeah, so it was really, really hard.
The advice from school was justbe consistent.
Just keep coming, keep going.
And the, specialists were like,yep, school's the best place.
We've gotta work on theaccommodations.
Make it work.
It was just getting worse.
And he was an absconder.
So he actually made it off theschool premises a couple of
(03:58):
times and was nearly hit by acar one time.
So it was pretty intense.
A member of the public actuallygrabbed him from going in front
of a car.
So obviously my anxiety wentthrough the roof.
We were told it was a safeschool.
It had lower fences, and wastold that, you know, these kids,
it's fine.
We deal with them all the time.
But clearly they hadn't dealwith mine because he made it off
(04:19):
the premises.
And even during the time in thesupport unit, he was just
absconding.
He would just get running out ofthe classroom.
Clearly did not want to bethere.
Took a huge toll on all of us.
So with mental health and alsophysical safety, because I was
worried if I'd be able to get mychild home in one piece at the
(04:39):
end of each day.
So it was pretty horrific.
And we did hesitate for ages tomove to homeschooling.
It's just wasn't on my radar.
I don't know, anyone who did it,for me it was homeschooling was
more people with more extremeviews or their own personal
beliefs that kept them out ofmainstream school.
I'm very much a mainstreamperson.
(05:00):
It did take a long time to getthere with our middle child and
then with our youngest, aftersix months I went, I know where
this is going, and we all needto not be here
Leisa Reichelt (05:09):
Yeah.
Jane (05:10):
yeah.
Leisa Reichelt (05:10):
And meanwhile, you had your eldest going off to
school.
Jane (05:13):
He ended up going off to school.
He loves school.
There was a little bit in upperprimary where he was struggling
in class a bit and we met again,and that's when he got ADHD
diagnosis.
but he, he's fine.
He goes to school.
He loves it.
He enjoys it.
He's met his people.
He's really happy.
Leisa Reichelt (05:31):
Okay, so tried school.
Advised to try to keep themiddle one in school.
Is that Chalk or Cheese is themiddle one?
Cheese
Jane (05:42):
Yes, we have Cheese and Chalk, who I talk about on our
blog.
Cheese is autistic.
We call him Cheese because he'svery mature.
He really loves the company ofolder people, whereas Chalk is
colourful, messy, hectic.
yeah, that's where we've gottheir names from.
Leisa Reichelt (06:00):
Excellent pseudonyms.
I love them very much.
So you got to the point whereschool clearly wasn't working
and I think you said HomeEducation was effectively like
last resort.
How did you make thattransition?
What was the approach?
Jane (06:15):
It was done with great hesitancy.
It's not something that I wantedto do.
I didn't have confidence in myown abilities to do it.
I'm not a teacher and you know,no one wants to spend 24 hours,
seven days a week with theirkids as lovely as they are.
You do need a break.
Basically, it got to the pointwhere there was no other option.
Everything was just too hard.
So we just jumped in.
(06:38):
I think I did the big mistake ofwhat a lot of people do is
recreate school at home.
I spent quite a bit of money onoff the shelf curriculums'cause
I didn't have the confidence.
I was like, right, I needsomeone to tell me what to do.
That's one of the hardestthings.
In that initial stages,homeschooling it is so
overwhelming, because there's noone way to do it.
(06:59):
There are no instructions ofthis is how you homeschool.
And there's so many differentforms.
There's, you know, unschooling,there's varied different forms
of online support services,distance education, game
schooling.
The choices are endless.
And for a new person who didn'twant to homeschool.
It is extremely overwhelming.
(07:20):
The information on the NESAwebsite at the time, was teacher
lingo.
So I'm reading it and I'm, whatis this that they're saying?
I don't understand.
So that was a really, big thingto get my head around.
I was lucky enough to reach out.
We have a great homeschoolgroup, locally, and I reached
out and tried to just meet withsome homeschool parents
(07:44):
one-on-one to go, look, what isthis like?
What is it about?
I don't understand.
And everyone was saying, don'tworry, it's a lot simpler than
you think.
You're overcomplicating it.
So I think a lot of it was myown anxiety about what am I
doing?
Leisa Reichelt (07:59):
I'd be interested to know how did
Cheese react to this?
At first when you were like,alright, we're not gonna do the
school thing anymore, we'regonna do it at home instead,
What was his journey like?
Jane (08:12):
Oh, he was happy as Larry.
He did have a trauma response toschool, so he did have PTSD
from, that's how assaulted hissenses were I quickly found out
that we weren't going to be ableto do anything that looked like
school.
And from the kind ofconversations and researching I
did, I found out aboutdeschooling, which is the
(08:32):
process of doing nothing ininverted commas.
It's kind of like a holiday.
Don't think about school, justheal from that experience and
the trauma and the stress ofdealing with the school system,
Letting your nervous systemreset.
Cheese went from, having 45minute meltdowns a day to none,
(08:53):
like zero.
I can't tell you the last timehe had one.
So that in itself, I thinkspeaks volumes.
We have a therapy swing in ourlounge room and he would spend
hours in that every day.
It gave him like a big hug, justthe nice pressure.
And he was happy doing that.
We read books, played games.
I got into video games with him.
Just whatever he wanted to doand enjoyed doing, I went with,
(09:17):
through that process, you get toforget everything you know about
school.
Just throw it out the window,and look at your child afresh.
What are their interests?
How do they learn?
What do they engage with?
Are they more engaged in themorning than the afternoon?
Is it inside?
Is it outside?
Is it going out in nature?
So now we have a very Unschooledapproach, which is.
(09:42):
We go with his interests whenhe's interested.
The more effort I put into alesson or a project, more likely
he is to go, nup, not for me.
It's nearly like you had ayounger kid, you might rotate
the toys in the baskets aroundthat's very much what we do with
him.
So I've got lots of hand-onmanipulatives.
So geometry sets and games areamazing because they have so
(10:06):
much learning in them, butthey're covert learning.
So just, yeah, going where he'sat and what he wants to do.
And then I kind ofretrospectively look at how he's
learned and what he's learning.
Because if I try and go from mypoint of view to him, it's not
gonna work, but looking at whathe's doing and go, okay, he's
just discovered this.
(10:26):
So we've got some really,there's just some moments where
you see things click and it is,it's magic.
We take a strength-basedapproach.
So we look at what he lovesdoing and work on that.
So he is a history boffin.
So we have got senior highschool teacher who comes in and
does tutoring, not with the goalof HSC or anything like that,
(10:49):
but just someone that can engagewith him on his level.
So he's in the equivalent ofYear Six now this woman is a
senior, 11/12, getting kidsready for the HSC and he's
teaching her things.
The knowledge, and just the joyof him engaging what he loves.
He's just, he's on cloud ninefor the rest of the day because
he's had all this time to speakfor someone, engage with someone
(11:11):
on a special interest level,which is fantastic for him.
Yeah.
Leisa Reichelt (11:16):
And how is he gathering that knowledge
himself?
Jane (11:18):
Um, it's, I suppose we notice a little interest in
something and then we startfeeding in more materials about
that interest.
So it started, for him itstarted off with dinosaurs, that
moved to reptiles, that moved todragons, that turned into
mythology.
And then from mythology, you getall these rich, great stories
and he'd be like researchingwhere in the world they were.
(11:39):
And then he got into Europeanpolitics for quite a while and
went quite deep into that.
I think just anything with goodstory, a bit of intrigue, a bit
of drama, from an historicalperspective really interests
him.
So yeah,
Leisa Reichelt (11:55):
I would love to hear if there is such a thing,
like what's a typical day in thelife from Cheese's perspective,
but then also from yourperspective, what's your day
like?
Jane (12:06):
Yeah.
Leisa Reichelt (12:06):
is that different to what it used to be?
Jane (12:08):
Yeah.
Okay.
So look, they're very relaxed.
Getting up in the morning is nota drama.
People can get up when they'reready to get up.
There's no packing lunches,there's no getting dressed in
uniforms that are too itchy.
It's just relaxed.
And so they both get up and justread.
We have a no screen time in themorning rule.
So they just read, they're justhanging out, vibing.
(12:30):
They're starting to make theirown breakfast more, which is
great for me.
Then we might have a bit ofscreen time and that's free time
for them to explore theirinterests.
That's very much for Cheese.
For Chalk, he's extremely ADHD,so any form of gaming, YouTube
sends him off his rocker.
(12:50):
We've had a lot of internaldiscussions about the different
neurotypes of brains and howbrains work differently.
So they both understand howtheir individual brains work.
They know that the way they usescreens is different.
Cheese will use screens to calmdown.
Chalk will it sends him crazy sohe can have regular TV, but
(13:11):
anything more interactive thanthat does not work for him.
You kind of go with the energyof the day, and the weather as
well.
So we have lots of games wemight play after that screen
break.
We might go take the dog for awalk.
We tend to not try and push toomuch into that morning period.
Then we have another break atlunchtime, and after lunch is
(13:32):
where we might try and do, anddo a science experiment or an
art activity or just, I've kindof got to go with where they're
at and try and help theactivities.
I end up doing more work withChalk at this point in time and
then Cheese will see what we'redoing and get involved with it.
Whereas before I'd be trying towork with Cheese and he'd be
(13:54):
like, no, you're telling me whatto do.
I can't do that.
So this is working really welland it gets him a lot more
involved.
We have homeschool catchups, sowe go to, a more social
Homeschool catch ups.
We have tried.
the more organized group ones,which are amazing, but I find
they work less forneurodivergent kids.
(14:15):
Because people homeschool for somany different reasons.
These people come together andthey try and recreate learning
experiences as opposed toprioritizing the social aspect.
So for us, they're a bit toomuch like school.
There are organized activities,there's noisy people and places.
So from a sensory perspective,those kind of groups didn't work
(14:36):
for us.
It was really hard.
I felt really isolated andwithout being able to attend
those groups locally, I had noconnection with, with any other
homeschoolers.
And that was really, reallyhard.
So, I ended up creating, a groupfor people in similar situation
just using Facebook and that'sbeen amazing.
(14:56):
You meet all different peoplefrom all different ages.
But coming from a point where wehad to homeschool because we
didn't have another choice, andthose mainstream opportunities
were so hard for our kids toaccess, there wasn't a lot
happening, and especially in aregional area as well, so.
Yeah, took a good 12 months, butnow we have a lovely small group
of people who are in the samesituation, and we can do social
(15:20):
opportunities out and about,which works really well.
Leisa Reichelt (15:24):
Talk a little bit more about the social side
of things, because it is oftensomething that people who are
considering Home Education areconcerned about.
Jane (15:32):
Yep,
Leisa Reichelt (15:32):
What are the different kinds of social
opportunities that your kids nowhave, you know, as part of their
standard week or month?
Jane (15:42):
So Cheese doesn't have any, he's very happy to be at
home in his own company.
He does come out if the event issomething he's interested in,
but if it's too social, he getssocial burnout and we'll have to
kind of retreat with hisheadphones and chill out
somewhere.
Chalk being the completeopposite, wants to go out and be
(16:02):
with all the people all thetime.
So, we're quite lucky where weare.
We have quite a range of bushschools or forest schools where
you can go with another bunch ofpeople for a day a week.
So as a parent you get a bit ofa break, so that's great.
And they're very nature based.
And also sign up for all thoseextracurricular activities.
(16:23):
So like Cubs, music classes, anykind of group extracurricular
activity is really good.
You often get just out and aboutspending time, living life, you
know, Chalk was, wouldn't sayboo to a goose, when he first
came out of school.
And now he just strikes uprandom conversations to the
person next in the, in theshopping line with us.
(16:45):
there are those kind of, socialopportunities.
Leisa Reichelt (16:48):
I feel hesitant asking this question, so feel
free to tell me to back off, butdo the boys have friends?
Jane (16:57):
They do, a small circle.
I think the older you get, theharder that is because the bush
schools and everything you cango to, they're more upper
primary.
So once you start getting tohigh school or if they're too
young, it can be a bit lonely.
I think Cheese enjoys beingaround people, not necessarily
(17:17):
interacting with them.
So friendship for him is a lotdifferent than it is for Chalk,
who just wants to be everywhereall the time.
So look, I think Chalk has amuch wider group of friends.
And it is something that we'reworking on with Cheese, and
there are a lot of great workthat therapists are doing around
(17:38):
social.
So they'll do a group socialactivity.
So he does like a gaming clubthat's facilitated by a speech
therapist.
There are ones that arefacilitated by OTs and it, it's
really good'cause it helps thekids connect with other people.
But also drive a lot moreself-awareness of how they're
feeling and if they've got anissue, how that can be discussed
(18:00):
and the therapists that are runit are just amazing at
facilitating that.
Leisa Reichelt (18:05):
I know boys are young at the moment, but as
parents we can't help but sortof look to the future and
imagine like where things aregonna go.
Jane (18:14):
Yeah.
Leisa Reichelt (18:15):
What are your thoughts on that?
What do you imagine for the boysas they grow up a little bit
more?
Jane (18:20):
Yeah, look, there's just been such a huge change over
time.
I try not to think too far inadvance because then I start
getting extremely anxious andit's just so unpredictable.
So Chalk, uh, he's quite young,so.
He may want to go back to schoolbecause he does want to be
around all those people.
(18:40):
I'm not sure if school will everhave the level of movement that
he needs, to remain regulated.
Cheese I can see absolutelydoing uni degrees in his own
way, in his own time.
You often find from homeschoolstudents, there's a lot of
research out there that they'remore likely to go to university
(19:01):
and once they are, they're a lotmore mature and stick with the
courses because its of theirinterest and they have chosen it
rather than someone coming outof traditional school going,
I've no idea what I'm meant todo now with all this
information.
So they know themselves, a lotmore as homeschoolers, which can
help, you know, drive theirpaths.
Leisa Reichelt (19:20):
I mean, it's scary for all of us, honestly,
who have got School Can't kids,isn't it?
So it doesn't really matterwhich direction you're going in.
You're always kind of justhoping for the absolute best.
Jane (19:31):
absolutely and something I wanted to mention on School
Can't, I think throughout oureducation journey, that for me
has been the absolute hardestpart.
Because you are living in limbo.
You don't know if you're goingto school, you don't know if
you're gonna home educate.
Each day is a take it and seehow it comes and it's crippling
(19:52):
from being able to hold a job,your mental health.
It's a really, really hardperiod.
And I would say definitely the'are we?, aren't we?' School
Can't experience is the hardestpart we've had so far.
Yeah.
I feel for everyone goingthrough it.
Leisa Reichelt (20:08):
yeah, it is extremely difficult.
When we were talking to PavlinaMcMaster in a earlier episode,
she sort of spoke to that alittle bit as well and said the
thing about Home Education isthat your life becomes a little
bit more predictable because youhave a little bit more control
over the shape of it, and you'renot always in this, in this
limbo that you talked about.
(20:29):
Has that been your experience aswell?
Jane (20:31):
Absolutely.
100%.
Yeah, you go with what works.
I'm very much a planner person,so I had to take a lot of deep
breaths and just go, no, we'regoing with where they're at.
And, but it works, you know, andjust to see the improvement in
their mental health fromemotionally broken children, to
absolutely thriving.
It's beautiful to watch.
(20:52):
Um, the other thing, whenthey're at school, they are so
stressed out, trying to keep ittogether.
They're not learning anything.
Whereas now they devour booksand information, its definitely
worth taking the plunge and it'salso not forever.
Homeschooling might be a choicefor a couple of years until your
child gets to a, a certainlevel, you know, maturity level
or you feel it's working.
What put me off making thedecision was I didn't have that
(21:15):
mentality.
I was like, you either go toschool or you're homeschooled.
I didn't really think that, ohyeah, maybe we could do this for
a little while and work withwhere you are at, at that
moment.
Leisa Reichelt (21:25):
That makes lots of sense.
You said you're a planner, andthat, but now you have to adapt
a lot more, but it sounds to meas though you are actually doing
a lot of background planning sothat you are ready to be able to
respond in the moment.
Is that a fair assessment?
Jane (21:39):
That is absolutely true.
Um, and Unschooling, I thinkUnschooling gets a bad rap from
a lot of people'cause it's like,oh, the kids just do what they
want.
Which is not the case.
You are a facilitator, and it'snearly like you're constantly
curating materials that mightengage them where they're at,
(21:59):
what they're interested in, andthen I also look at the
curriculum and what they should,"should" be learning go, okay,
so they're interested in that.
How could I work fractions intocutting up the pizza today?
Do you know what I mean?
So I'm kind of tackling it fromboth ends.
That's probably more for the waymy brain works I feel like I
(22:20):
need some kind of directionbecause the options are so
endless.
I need to feel like, right,okay.
I know we are covering thingsbecause I don't have a teaching
background and it, it, it isdifficult.
So yeah, it's a lot harder thanit looks, but it's also a lot
easier it looks in so many wayswhen it comes to the engagement
of learning.
Leisa Reichelt (22:41):
What about dealing with the authorities on,
on this side of thing as well?
I think there's a lot of kind ofunknown in terms of like what
you have to do to
Jane (22:49):
process.
Leisa Reichelt (22:50):
Yeah.
You know, especially in stateswhere some are more aggressive
than others in terms of how theypolice these things.
Like, what are you, what are youhaving to do to make sure that
everything's kind of where itneeds to be?
Jane (23:01):
Look, I didn't really have an issue with the process.
So we're in New South Wales,it's quite easy.
You apply online, you justanswer a couple of quick
questions and then there's up toa 12 week period where they will
contact you to make anappointment for a meeting with
an AP, and they come out, theyhave a look at your education
plan.
So that, for me, the first timeround was like, right.
(23:23):
I, I'm, I need to buy thesebecause I don't know what I'm
doing.
They come out.
Make sure that you understandthe learning, understand what
you need to learn.
You are judged on yourself as afacilitator, not what your child
knows.
So there is no failing from achild's perspective.
There's no testing.
And a lot of the time it isactually a welfare check as well
(23:44):
to make sure that, you know,it's a, it's a healthy
environment for your child to bein.
Yeah.
And I also found the APsextremely helpful.
A lot of them are ex-schoolteachers or principals, and they
see how many kids don't fit thesystem.
So they are there not to judgeyou, but to support you.
I think it is hard when parentsget to the point, it's like, we
(24:06):
have to start homeschooling now.
We cannot keep doing this, andthere's that 12 week wait
period.
schools don't like that.
They want you to keep coming toschool, so you often need to get
either a doctor's certificate ora, a note from one of your
specialists talking about themental health impact.
And also, the school then needsto do some paperwork for an
(24:27):
extended leave.
Um, and some of them just say,we're not doing it.
It's also connected to theirfunding as well.
So obviously if your, if yourchild has a diagnosis, that
amount of funding that they'vegot is a lot more, so it's not.
A process that they want to gothrough
Leisa Reichelt (24:43):
Understandable.
Okay.
We've covered so much groundhere today.
I've really, yeah.
This has been a really goodchat.
I'm gonna move us onto thoseclosing questions that we talked
about.
if you could go back in time andtell yourself something, when
would you go back to, what wouldyou say?
Jane (25:00):
I would probably go back to before they started school
and say, investigate homeschool.
And just do it Forneurodivergent kids, from our
experience.
Um, yeah, don't delay.
Don't hesitate making thatdecision.
Leisa Reichelt (25:18):
so not at the last resort, but bring it much
further forward.
Jane (25:23):
look, knowing what I know about the school system, it is
absolutely, um, a last resort,but I don't feel there's a
viable other option.
So if there was, I wouldabsolutely take it.
Leisa Reichelt (25:34):
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Fair enough.
What is something that you wouldlike to say to everybody who's
listening, who's on their ownSchool Can't journey at the
moment?
Jane (25:43):
I would say number one, prioritise mental health over
attendance.
And anyone who tries to push youotherwise is not healthy.
And also you have more optionsthan you're aware of.
So for me, homeschooling wasnever on the radar.
It was never discussed.
Schools won't discuss it becauseyou have to go to school.
(26:04):
And their job is to facilitateyou going to school, so they're
not gonna talk about otheroptions.
So just, yeah, mental health andresearch all the options out
there.
Leisa Reichelt (26:12):
Amazing.
And if there was one resourcethat, that you wish everybody
knew about and had access to,what would that be?
Jane (26:21):
I've got three
Leisa Reichelt (26:23):
I'll take three.
Three's also good
Jane (26:24):
It depends where you're at in your stage.
So if you are at school andtrying to make that work, I
think Dr.
Ross Greene, uh, with his CPSmodel, with working schools, it
puts the child at the center ofthe process and helps them
problem solve and facilitatemaking School Can't work.
I think often its left to theadults and the child's not
(26:46):
involved in that process.
That that is, I think, a really,really good one.
I didn't discover it until afterwe had started homeschooling,
but I know about it now and ifyou want to go to school, I
think it's a great model.
If you are hesitant abouthomeschooling, um, there's a
book by Dr.
Naomi Fisher, called ChangingOur Minds.
Um, and that looks at howchildren actually learn.
(27:10):
Because homeschooling is done inso many different ways there's
not really any research into it.
So you often hear about, howschools are falling behind in
reading or whatever, but thatdoesn't, there's no comparison
to homeschool.
So she does a great job ofexplaining how kids naturally
won't, you, you don't, you know,you don't get taught to walk.
You learn it.
(27:30):
Um, my kids, I didn't teach themto talk.
They picked it up and thatactually carries on throughout
the years.
So it, that's a really good one.
Leisa Reichelt (27:38):
Amazing.
Jane (27:38):
Yep.
Leisa Reichelt (27:39):
And the third one.
Jane (27:41):
I so I've started writing a blog, um, called Accidental
Homeschool.
And it's a what I wish I knewway back when.
And I try to do it with a senseof humour because otherwise I
would be in the fetal positionon the floor.
So, it's, it's a realistic viewof what it's been like for us.
Leisa Reichelt (27:59):
Starring Mr.
Chalk and Mr.
Cheese?
Jane (28:02):
Starring Chalk and Cheese.
Our neurospicy, 11 and 9 yearolds,
Leisa Reichelt (28:07):
Amazing.
Fantastic.
Well, Jane, thank you so much.
It's been just wonderful to hearabout the journey that you've
been on, and I'm so glad thatyou guys are in a good place
right now and the boys are alldoing really well.
Jane (28:18):
Yep.
Thank you very much.
Leisa Reichelt (28:19):
So what a privilege to hear Jane's story.
And thank you again, Jane.
I'm not sure about you.
But my experience as a SchoolCan't mum was a very lonely one
for a long time, and it oftenfelt like I was the only person
in the world dealing with thesechallenges.
Obviously that wasn't true, butI think we do have a tendency to
feel ashamed of what's happeningand to hide it.
And as a result, it can bereally hard to connect with
(28:41):
other School Can't parents.
We are hoping to share many moreSchool Can't Lived Experience
stories.
So if you have a School Can'tstory that you would like to
share, please email us atSchoolCantPodcast@gmail.com.
That's one wordschoolcantpodcast with no
apostrophe, obviously.
And you can send any feedbackthat you have to us at that
(29:02):
email as well.
So once again, that's-SchoolCantPodcast one word, no
apostrophe,@gmail.com.
We'll put a link to theresources Jane recommended in
the episode notes and also alink to donate to School Can't
Australia.
Your tax deductible donationshelp us to raise community
awareness, partner withresearchers, produce resources
(29:23):
like webinars and this verypodcast, and to assist people
who are supporting children andyoung people experiencing School
Can't.
If you are a parent or carer inAustralia and you're feeling
distressed, remember you canalways call the Parent Helpline
in your state.
A link with the number to callis in the episode notes.
Thank you again for listening,and we will talk again soon.
(29:44):
Take care.
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