October 17, 2025 • 29 mins
The sky went dark at midday, the temperature dipped, and a continent held its breath. We chased the total solar eclipse to Texas and came back with more than a memory—fresh science on how birds react when day vanishes and returns a few minutes later. Leveraging a blend of community observations, autonomous recorders, and BirdNET machine learning, researchers tracked behavior from Mexico to Canada and found a clear pattern: movement slowed during totality while vocalizations spiked, followed by a pseudo-dawn burst when the light returned. Some species, like American Robins and Barred Owls, showed dramatic shifts; others didn’t budge, pointing to species-specific sensitivity to light.
That sudden flip from light to dark is more than a spectacle—it’s a powerful biological cue. We connect the dots to artificial light at night, from migration disruptions to window strikes, and explore how city lighting policies and dark-sky practices can protect wildlife without sacrificing safety. When the whole sky changes at once, you see how deeply behavior is tuned to brightness. It’s a rare, elegant experiment you can’t reproduce in a lab, and it gives us practical guidance for urban design and conservation.
Back on the home front, we turn to a concern every family with pets and kids faces: children often misread dog body language. New data show that four- to seven-year-olds frequently mistake angry dog faces for happy ones, with high error rates even at seven. Most bites happen at home, during child-initiated contact, and without supervision. We share simple, actionable steps—teach a few key cues, keep greetings calm, supervise play, and give dogs guaranteed safe spaces—to preserve the empathy and comfort dogs bring while lowering risk.
If you love science, animals, and practical insights that make life better, this one’s for you.
For Science, Empathy, and Cuteness!
Being Kind is a Superpower.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Uh Hello science enthusiasts.
I'm Jason Zakowski.
SPEAKER_02 (00:12):
And I'm Chris Zakoski.
SPEAKER_00 (00:14):
We're the pet parents of Bunsen, Beaker,
Bernoulli, and Ginger.
SPEAKER_02 (00:18):
The science animals on social media.
If you love science and you lovepets, you've come to the right
spot.
So put on your safety glassesand hold on to your tail.
SPEAKER_01 (00:29):
This is the Science Podcast.
Just a heads up, I screwed upthis episode with my mic
settings, so you'll my audio isnot the best.
Chris sounds great.
Hello, welcome back to theScience Podcast.
We hope you're happy and healthyout there.
This is episode 30 of seasonseven.
Chris, another week.
(00:51):
Another week on strike.
SPEAKER_02 (00:54):
It has been another week on strike.
You're absolutely correct.
SPEAKER_01 (00:58):
Yeah.
Very surreal feeling.
We went to a rally today.
That was exciting.
SPEAKER_02 (01:03):
Yeah, we did.
It was a great turnout, and theyhad a barbecue after, so we got
to talk to some of ourcolleagues that we don't
necessarily see all of the time.
And that was unfortunate for thereason why we were there, but it
was great to connect with ourcolleagues for sure.
SPEAKER_01 (01:22):
Yeah.
Good turnout, and there's a lotof public support.
That's great.
Not to get too down, but it issucky that we're on strike, but
it's part of our life.
Um, it is giving us a lot moretime with the dogs.
I don't know if they're gonna beready for when we go back.
SPEAKER_02 (01:37):
I was talking to other dog parents about that.
They're like, our dogs are gonnago through withdrawal.
SPEAKER_01 (01:43):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (01:44):
And I think, and I think they are, but we've been
filling their day with fun walksin different areas of the city.
That's been really enjoyable forme.
SPEAKER_01 (01:52):
Lily and Beaker have a busy life when we're in
school, anyways, because we dotake them to doggy daycare.
Um, and they're go all day.
They're busy when we're inschool or not.
Maybe they're just like there'smore us time with them, which
has been nice.
That's been good.
SPEAKER_02 (02:10):
That's my favorite part of the day is just downtime
with the dogs.
And every morning I get tosnuggle with Beaker, and she
just lays with me, and I get topet her, and she just gives me
this warm energy.
I just love it.
I just love it.
It reminds me when I taughtonline, taught from home, and I
got to hang out with the dogsall day.
(02:32):
It was just Beaker and Bunsenthen, but Beaker every day, her
and I.
I could mark from the couch andI would sit with her and we
would snuggle.
So I'm gonna go throughwithdrawal when I'm back at
work.
SPEAKER_01 (02:45):
She's a sweetie.
She's just a sweet dog.
All right, what's on the showthis week?
In Science News, Chris, youfound a really fun article about
birds do during the um greatAmerican eclipse and how their,
I guess their singing changed.
SPEAKER_02 (03:05):
We're gonna talk about it more, but it's just a
way to think about and researchhow animals respond to their
environment.
And it's really cool in thataspect.
SPEAKER_01 (03:17):
And in pet science, maybe on the heels of our guest
we had last week, who talkedabout some of the there's some
concerns when you have smallchildren in the house with dogs.
And this study's kind of allabout that, about how children
aren't really ready to be arounddogs unsupervised because they
(03:37):
just don't know how dogs aresupposed to act, they don't have
enough life experience.
SPEAKER_02 (03:41):
Do you do you remember Melissa?
I'll be nice to those puppies, Ipromise.
SPEAKER_01 (03:45):
Yeah, they can't.
SPEAKER_02 (03:46):
I'll be nice to those puppies.
SPEAKER_01 (03:48):
Yeah, little kids don't know.
You have to teach them how to beto a dog with proper
supervision.
Yeah, but let's get on with theshow because there's no time
lake.
SPEAKER_02 (03:58):
Science time.
SPEAKER_01 (04:00):
This weekend's science news, it's all about
birds singing during the solareclipse.
Now, you and I took time offschool.
We went and saw the eclipse inTexas.
SPEAKER_02 (04:14):
We sure did.
And you flew, we flew out on theSaturday.
You're like, let's fly out onthe Saturday.
And I said, Are you sure?
And you said that would be agreat day to fly out.
Are you sure, Jason?
April 6th, that's a great day tofly.
And you said, Yep, I don't wantto fly any other day.
And that was my birthday, so Igot to fly out to Texas on my
(04:35):
birthday.
But the solar eclipse was on the8th.
SPEAKER_01 (04:38):
Yeah, that's right.
Um, amazing.
It was an amazing experience.
I'm very glad I've never seenone in my entire life.
They come around in yourlocation on Earth, maybe once in
your entire life, sometimesnever.
And I was like, it's time for meto see one and see what they're
all about.
And it was pretty spectacular.
SPEAKER_02 (05:00):
I had a really great time too.
It was a lot of fun going downthere.
We got to see a really fun show,and we got to see the
spectacular, I want to say lightshow, but it wasn't.
It was a lack of light show withthe totality of the eclipse.
And I wanted to wear certaincolors of clothing because I
heard that if you wear red, thatit's muted or green.
(05:22):
And so we definitely picked upsome lawn chairs, and I wore a
red shirt just to test that.
But birds actually depend onlight cues as well.
To but birds actually depend onlight cues to time daily and
seasonal behaviors, like they'resinging, like they're feeding,
(05:42):
and roosting.
And like you said, totalityoccurs at a given site only once
every 300 to 400 years.
Most wild birds actually havenever experienced such an abrupt
day-to-night to back-to-daytransition.
So the researchers they usedcommunity science, so you know,
(06:03):
avid bird watchers, and theyused autonomous sound recorders
and also something calledBirdNet, which was a machine
learning that quantified birdresponses all the way from
Mexico to Canada.
SPEAKER_01 (06:19):
So the folks that to the published this in science
wanted to know what happenedwith birds during the eclipse.
The, as you said, they usedcommunity science, which is a
solar, they used an app theybuilt called Solar Bird.
It's an app for your phone.
You can use it with no birdwatching experience.
And they logged over 11,000observations from 1,174 users in
(06:42):
the path of totality.
So where the moon went right infront of the sun.
You observe the bird for 30seconds, and then you check a
little behavior boxes, whichinclude singing and flying and
eating, and then the appautomatically calculated which
eclipse phase you were in usingGPS and Timestat.
So that was cool.
They were able to commandeer awhole swath of people in the
(07:06):
path of totality that started inMexico and ended up in Canada.
You mentioned those autonomousrecording units, those were in
southern Indiana.
So they set them up only in oneplace and they tracked bird
sounds there during the eclipse.
And then that AI system,BirdNet, identified from those
(07:26):
recordings a whole schwack ofvocalizations from 52 different
species, and then compared themwith what birds do on a normal
daily basis without the weirdeclipse.
So there's a whole lot of datathey had to parse out.
You want to talk key results?
SPEAKER_02 (07:44):
Yeah.
So with that data, they foundsome community science findings.
So the vocalizations rosesharply during totality, which
they found more singing and morebirds calling.
But flying and other behaviorsthat are visible, they dropped
significantly, probably becausebirds settled to roost or there
(08:07):
was low visibility during thetotality.
And then after totality, bothvocalizations and flight
activity increased again, whichmirrored Sado, which mirrored
pseudo-dawn burst.
And areas actually outside thepath of totality, the ones that
received partial eclipses,showed no significant changes.
SPEAKER_01 (08:31):
And just from just from us experiencing it, like it
got dark.
I was shocked how dark it got.
Like I knew it was going to getdark when totality happened, but
I was actually stunned how darkit got.
SPEAKER_02 (08:44):
But cold too.
So we were sitting next to some.
SPEAKER_01 (08:47):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (08:48):
Yeah.
We were sitting next to somepeople and they were all set up.
They had this humongousthermometer, and they had like
their camera was set up.
I was like really impressed thatthese community scientists set
up all of this apparatus, and itdropped, uh, was it 10 degrees?
SPEAKER_01 (09:11):
Well, it was in Fahrenheit.
Yeah, Fahrenheit.
SPEAKER_02 (09:13):
So yeah, we're not quite sure.
SPEAKER_01 (09:16):
It got colder.
SPEAKER_02 (09:17):
And because we felt colder, and my shirt was doing
the changing color.
It was pretty cool.
It became more muted.
SPEAKER_01 (09:24):
Yeah.
So I can imagine if you were abird and it got instantaneously
that dark and cold, you're like,it's time to go, it's nighttime.
It just would make sense, Iguess.
Now they did have the AI fieldrecorder findings that they had
to go through.
Of the 52 species detected, 29showed significant behavior
(09:44):
changes.
11 species increased theirvocalization before totality,
and 12 species changed duringtotality.
Half increased, half decreased.
19 species behavior alteredafter, mostly increased singing.
So the singing kind of changedas totality happened and after
totality.
(10:06):
And then specifically, theAmerican Robin vocalization was
five times higher during theeclipse and six times higher
after.
And remember, they're using thatthe AI field recorders to
compare with control, whichwould have been the day before
no eclipse.
And the barred owl had fourtimes more calls after totality.
(10:29):
So there was about a 50%increase in observed species
showing some kind of disruptiondue to the light change.
So that's cool.
That's really good data.
SPEAKER_02 (10:41):
So do we just want to go to the ecological and
biological implications?
SPEAKER_01 (10:44):
Yeah, let's skip down there.
Yep.
SPEAKER_02 (10:46):
So what they found were several ecological and
biological implications throughthis study.
The return of light is aparticularly strong biological
cue.
Even that four-minute quoteunquote night of totality can
reset a bird's behavior.
And that confirms that circadianrhythms in many species are
(11:09):
tightly driven to light.
Roughly half of the species wereunaffected, which suggests maybe
species-specific differences inlight sensitivity.
And it provides a rare,large-scale natural test of
light mechanisms, unlike whatthey can do in the lab with
(11:30):
light and darkness.
SPEAKER_01 (11:32):
The whole sky turned dark versus a couple birds you
have in your lab.
SPEAKER_02 (11:37):
Exactly.
Exactly.
And it offers insight into theecological impacts of artificial
light at night.
I actually just saw anadvertisement for the Dark Skies
conference in Jasper, and itjust made me reflect on all the
things that they do to keep thata dark sky preserve.
And I know you bug me aboutputting leaving the outside
(11:59):
light on because you're like, itbugs the moths.
It's not good for them.
Yeah.
That whole idea of lightimpacting birds is prevalent.
And that that could causesimilar disruptions on a global
scale.
Birds can crash into buildingsbased on light cues.
(12:20):
They could get off of migrationpatterns based on light cues.
So it's a strong ecologicalimplication of light.
SPEAKER_01 (12:29):
And I guess the flip side of that is half of the
birds appear to be not affectedby it.
Right?
Like the half of the birds, thesun goes away and they're like,
oh, whatever.
Just keep on doing what they'redoing.
Uh yeah.
It'd be interesting.
I was thinking about this whenwe left because we didn't have
Bernoulli yet, right?
(12:50):
This was last year before, amonth or two before we got
Bernoulli as a little goober.
Um, it would be so cool to havethe dogs outside and then just
watch have a camera on them tosee what they would do.
Like what would have Bunsen andbe?
Would they have been unaffectedby it?
Or would they have changed theirbehavior?
You know?
SPEAKER_02 (13:09):
I don't know, but there's gonna be a solar eclipse
in our neck of the woods comingout of the world.
SPEAKER_01 (13:13):
Yeah, when is that?
When is that?
SPEAKER_02 (13:16):
Wasn't it like 2028?
SPEAKER_01 (13:19):
Oh man, we're gonna be so old.
SPEAKER_02 (13:21):
Oh wow.
No, wasn't it 2044?
SPEAKER_01 (13:25):
Yeah, like it's 2044, Chris.
That's we're gonna be old.
SPEAKER_02 (13:30):
No, I thought it was a lot sooner for us.
I'll have to look it up again.
SPEAKER_01 (13:34):
No, the next total eclipse visible from Alberta
will be August 22nd.
So a couple days after mybirthday, on 2 2044, there will
be a partial eclipse on 2026, onAugust 12th.
We'll get the Europe will gettotality.
SPEAKER_02 (13:53):
So watch the skies and the behavior of your pets.
SPEAKER_01 (13:56):
All right, that's science news for this week.
This week in Pet Science, we'regonna look at a study published
in the Anthrozoos.
It's concluded kids get animalbehavior wrong, and it can
sometimes have bad outcomes.
Now, we've had lots of littlekids around our dogs, but what
do we do when we have smallchildren around dogs?
(14:19):
We don't just let them go.
SPEAKER_02 (14:21):
No, we definitely we supervise.
SPEAKER_01 (14:24):
Yeah, we watched.
SPEAKER_02 (14:26):
And Melissa has made a comment about how we're more
heightened and more protectivejust to make sure that the dogs
and the kids interact in apositive way.
And she had a little bit of anegative thing because it's
she's it's not Rafi's fault thathe's four or five or six and he
(14:49):
is the way he is.
Excitable wants to run aroundwith the dog, wants to be chased
by the dog.
But like for us, we want to havewell-adjusted dogs.
And like you said, it's hard tothe kids don't necessarily
understand the cause and effectof their actions where they
think the dog is playingappropriately when it's not.
(15:12):
And we definitely want our dogsto be on their best behavior and
basically bomb proof in whateversituation that they find
themselves in.
SPEAKER_01 (15:22):
Yeah.
I would never think that thedogs would bite a kid or a small
child, but you never know.
It just takes a toddler to fallover on a dog and hurt them the
wrong way and they snip back.
Like you you'd hope that wouldnever happen, but that's always
in the back of my head becausedogs are animals, right?
You can't get in their head andknow 100% of the time what
they're thinking.
(15:43):
Exactly.
Before we get to some of therisk outlined in the study,
human-dog interactions areextremely positive for kids.
They help teach kids empathy,they help reduce stress, all of
these, they even improve theiracademic performance.
I shared actually today on Chrison our story on Instagram,
(16:04):
kindergarten or kindergartenclass got classroom puppies.
Um I know the little kids were acouple little kids started
crying, they were so overcomewith emotion seeing the puppies,
and they were reading books tothe little puppies, right?
They all got to take a turn inwith the puppies and read books,
which is really sweet.
(16:24):
And dogs are a very common pet.
Like in Canada, they're what isit, 30, 33% of homes have a dog,
40% in the United States, 31% inthe United Kingdoms, and very
high in parts of Latin America.
So you have lots and lots ofdogs everywhere.
Now, the flip side of that isdespite these, despite all these
(16:47):
this good news, um, dog bitesare a big problem globally.
You have high costs in someplaces, if because there's some
places where if you get bit andthere's some damage, you may not
have insurance.
And small children aredisproportionately affected.
And the injuries they sustainare usually bad.
SPEAKER_02 (17:11):
So that's the often with their face or head
injuries, but then they have aPTSD risk after a severe bite.
Yeah.
So talking with the benefits ofthe human-dog interaction, like
you're saying, the dog bites area growing public concern.
And UK hospitals have noticedtriple the bites from 1997 to
(17:36):
1998.
There were 2,915 bites up to9,366 in 2022 to 2023.
And children consistently havethe highest incident rates.
(18:09):
So one thing that might coincideis during the pandemic.
So dog ownership during thepandemic increased.
From the United Kingdom, it wentfrom 23% to 33% to about 34%
from 2020 to 2022, and theynotice concurrent bite
increases.
(18:31):
So why and where are childrenbitten, Jay?
SPEAKER_01 (18:34):
Well, most kids are bitten from the family's own
dog, just in day-to-dayinteractions.
86% of the bites are triggeredby child-initiated interactions,
and usually they occur withoutparental supervision.
One idea is that kids, littlekids, they they bend toward the
(18:58):
dog with their own face, andthat's why they get bit in the
face.
Like little kids are reallycurious.
The next time you're with atoddler, watch how they look at
things.
They bend forward and squat tolook at them.
Like they get right up in there.
Whereas if you think of anadult, like would you stick your
face into the face of a dog?
(19:19):
Probably not.
SPEAKER_02 (19:21):
Um definitely not a dog I don't trust.
SPEAKER_01 (19:24):
Yeah, exactly.
Not a dog you don't know.
But so I guess this is a familydog.
But more often than not, asadults, we say hello to the dog,
but we pet them.
Of course, of course, I thinkI've kissed our dogs probably 50
times today.
So I am bending my face towardsthe dog, but it's from a
different angle, right?
(19:45):
I'm not at their level squattingdown.
SPEAKER_02 (19:48):
No, that's true.
Because I had Bernoulli on oneside of my leg and Bunsen on the
other, and I was rubbing them,and I went down and I kissed
their heads.
I was up in their face, but I itwasn't me going towards them at
their eye level.
So yeah, that's that makes it alittle bit different.
And we're not as unpredictable.
(20:08):
Yeah, kids are talking to thedog.
Yeah, the kids areunpredictable, and I don't do
quick and sudden movements.
SPEAKER_01 (20:17):
So, what this study was looking at was examining how
kids from four to seven andversus adults interpret dog and
human facial expressions.
So they were trying to figureout kids just get wrong dogs
kind of their dog's facialbehavior, right?
(20:37):
Like we've been around angrydogs before, and you're like,
that dog is angry, but perhaps asmall child wouldn't clue in on
that.
So that's what they use.
They used like angry dog faces,angry human faces, happy dog
faces, happy human faces, andneutral dog human faces using
photos.
You were gonna say, Chris, goahead.
SPEAKER_02 (20:59):
Yeah, but there is a core knowledge gap that they
found.
So children, not only children,actually many adults, poorly
read dogs' body and facialsignals, and actually having
ownership or experience withdogs does not reliably predict
their accuracy of being able toread the body or facial signals.
(21:21):
So prior work, prior study showsfrequent misreading of
aggressive signals as happy anda limited understanding of
neutral expressions in dogs.
And that's kids and adultsalike.
SPEAKER_01 (21:34):
Yeah, that's interesting.
I don't have any knowledge ofthat.
What does a neutral dog facelook like?
I don't know.
I'd have to probably, yeah, Iguess so.
SPEAKER_00 (21:44):
I guess so, beaker face.
SPEAKER_01 (21:46):
They had 89 kids of between that age of four to
seven and 30 adults.
They gave them 24 black andwhite photos with the different
emotions per series of differenttypes of dogs and different
folks, people in it, and theyrandomized it.
Showed the test subjects thepictures and had them interpret
(22:08):
the emotion happy, angry, orneutral.
And I guess this is the crux ofit.
What did the study find, Chris?
SPEAKER_02 (22:17):
They found that the angry dog faces, which is the
most critical, there was majorchild misinterpretation in
improving with age, butpersisting at seven years.
The four-year-olds, 67%misinterpreted angry dog faces.
Five-year-olds was 70%,six-year-olds was 58%, whereas
(22:41):
the seven-year-olds was the 46%,and the adults had one error,
which was 0.8%.
SPEAKER_01 (22:49):
Whoa.
Okay.
Not even close.
SPEAKER_02 (22:52):
Exactly.
Not even close.
Four-year-olds, definitelyfive-year-olds, they're not
interpreting an angry dog face,they just don't know.
So the most common error in thechildren, they thought the angry
dogs were happy as opposed tobeing angry dogs.
Four-year-olds were 78%incorrect.
(23:16):
They thought the angry dog washappy, and five-year-olds was
higher at 86%, and thensix-year-olds was lower at 66%,
and then seven-year-olds itdropped off to the 43.
So it seems like thefive-year-olds is a sweet spot
for very much misinterpretation.
SPEAKER_01 (23:36):
Wow.
That's see, I knew it was goingto be something like this until
we we looked at the study.
And even though I looked at itobviously before we started
talking, it's just such ashocking percentage.
Like kids, this is the bigthing, is the kids don't know.
They just don't have the lifeexperience to get when a dog is
upset.
SPEAKER_02 (23:57):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (23:58):
This is what the this is what the data says, and
that's scary.
SPEAKER_02 (24:01):
And I think that's why we were like hypersensitive.
SPEAKER_01 (24:04):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (24:05):
Like with Rafi running around the house,
jumping on the couch, Lee waschasing him, and they were
having a great time.
And it looked like they werehaving a great time, but I don't
think Bernoulli ever had anangry face, let's be honest.
But it could have gone badly.
So that's why he could havepuppy bit.
SPEAKER_01 (24:23):
He could have bit Rafi, like as a puppy, but it
would have hurt him, right?
SPEAKER_02 (24:28):
And I guess that's different.
I guess that is differentbecause puppies are Bernoulli
was like eight months.
SPEAKER_01 (24:36):
He was almost full grown, but still a puppy.
SPEAKER_02 (24:39):
So there's you know no, there were there's that
humping video where Rafi'srunning outside.
SPEAKER_01 (24:45):
When he was a little puppy, that's different than
when he was running, becausehe's still he was doing that
when he was I don't know, 70, 80pounds.
SPEAKER_02 (24:54):
And Bunsen.
Like Rafi can rile up Bunsenrunning around the kitchen.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (24:59):
Bunsen has a really cool relationship with Rafi,
though.
That's for sure.
They have a neat, they have aneat relationship.
Anyways, not to the point.
SPEAKER_02 (25:08):
No, so they yeah, we'll just keep talking about
what the study found.
Angry human faces.
So there were far fewer errorsin children.
They knew when a parent wasangry, and they interpret human
anger better than canine angerfor sure.
Happy faces, children and adultsbest were best at determining a
(25:30):
happy human face, and happy dogswere harder.
The youngest children missedinterpreting a happy dog face.
And then the neutral faces werehardest overall.
So youngest children oftenperformed poorly on both
species, neutral expressions,both human and dog.
Yeah.
(25:50):
And adults still made someneutral face errors because a
neutral face is often ambiguous.
SPEAKER_01 (25:57):
Yeah.
So not to belabor theconclusion, but it's pretty
self-explanatory.
The practical conclusion is youneed to watch your kids when
they're around dogs.
There is a huge safety gap.
Kids just cannot read a dog.
Little kids cannot read a dogwhen they're angry versus happy.
(26:21):
And because of that, just watchyour kids when they're around
dogs.
And even be like us, hovering tomake sure there's no
misinterpretation or there's nobehavior by the dog on the
little kid.
SPEAKER_02 (26:34):
Exactly.
And being preventative, thatbeing making that prevention a
priority.
So teaching the facial and bodysignals, especially a conflict
escalation.
So if your dog has a wrinkledmuzzle or they have their
forward ears or they have a hardstare, their teeth are showing.
Have the child clue into thoseare your dog is uncomfortable
(26:57):
and it could escalate.
But then also sometimes dogswill display behaviors where
they're trying to diffuse it.
So turning away and then liplicking or yawning.
So those are signals that dogsare like, whoa, this is too much
here.
And then the kids sometimes theyjust don't interpret those.
And so then they keep going, andthen that's past the point of
(27:20):
danger, right?
Because the dog is trying toshow, I'm trying to diffuse the
situation, but I can't becauseit the child just keeps is
relentless.
SPEAKER_01 (27:33):
Yep.
All this being said, don't bediscouraged in not getting a dog
if you're you've got little kidsat home.
Callan came home to us as apuppy when Adam was a little
guy, and they had just thesweetest relationship.
That was really cool for Adamand Duncan.
(27:54):
Like, how old was Duncan when wegot Callan?
12?
11?
He was young.
Yeah.
So, you know, Callan has beengone for a while now, but like
that was very cool for them togrow up with a dog.
It was wonderful.
Alright, that's pet science forthis week.
That's it for this week's show.
Thanks for coming back weekafter week to listen to the
(28:14):
Science Podcast.
And a shout out to all the topdogs.
That's the top tier of ourPatreon community, The Pop Pack.
You can sign up in our shownotes.
Alright, Chris, let's hear thosenames that are part of the Top
Dogs.
SPEAKER_02 (28:28):
Amelia Fete, Ree Oda, Carol Hanel, Jennifer
Challen, Linnea Janet, KarenCronister, Vicky Oteiro, Christy
Walker, Sarah Brown, Wendy,Diane, Mason and Lou, Helen
Chin, Elizabeth Boujois,Marianne McNally, Katherine
Jordan, Shelly Smith, LauraSteffenson, Tracy Leinbaugh,
(28:50):
Anne Uchida, Heather Burvach,Kelly, Tracy Halbert, Ben
Rather, Debbie Anderson, SandyPrimer, Mary Rader, Bianca Hyde,
Andrew Lynn, Brenda Clark,Brianne Hawes, Peggy McKeel,
Holly Birch, Kathy Zurker, SusanWagner, and Liz Button.
SPEAKER_00 (29:09):
For science, empathy, and cuteness.
Uh Hello science enthusiasts.
I'm Jason Zakowski.
SPEAKER_02 (00:12):
And I'm Chris Zakoski.
SPEAKER_00 (00:14):
We're the pet parents of Bunsen, Beaker,
Bernoulli, and Ginger.
SPEAKER_02 (00:18):
The science animals on social media.
If you love science and you lovepets, you've come to the right
spot.
So put on your safety glassesand hold on to your tail.
SPEAKER_01 (00:29):
This is the Science Podcast.
Just a heads up, I screwed upthis episode with my mic
settings, so you'll my audio isnot the best.
Chris sounds great.
Hello, welcome back to theScience Podcast.
We hope you're happy and healthyout there.
This is episode 30 of seasonseven.
Chris, another week.
(00:51):
Another week on strike.
SPEAKER_02 (00:54):
It has been another week on strike.
You're absolutely correct.
SPEAKER_01 (00:58):
Yeah.
Very surreal feeling.
We went to a rally today.
That was exciting.
SPEAKER_02 (01:03):
Yeah, we did.
It was a great turnout, and theyhad a barbecue after, so we got
to talk to some of ourcolleagues that we don't
necessarily see all of the time.
And that was unfortunate for thereason why we were there, but it
was great to connect with ourcolleagues for sure.
SPEAKER_01 (01:22):
Yeah.
Good turnout, and there's a lotof public support.
That's great.
Not to get too down, but it issucky that we're on strike, but
it's part of our life.
Um, it is giving us a lot moretime with the dogs.
I don't know if they're gonna beready for when we go back.
SPEAKER_02 (01:37):
I was talking to other dog parents about that.
They're like, our dogs are gonnago through withdrawal.
SPEAKER_01 (01:43):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (01:44):
And I think, and I think they are, but we've been
filling their day with fun walksin different areas of the city.
That's been really enjoyable forme.
SPEAKER_01 (01:52):
Lily and Beaker have a busy life when we're in
school, anyways, because we dotake them to doggy daycare.
Um, and they're go all day.
They're busy when we're inschool or not.
Maybe they're just like there'smore us time with them, which
has been nice.
That's been good.
SPEAKER_02 (02:10):
That's my favorite part of the day is just downtime
with the dogs.
And every morning I get tosnuggle with Beaker, and she
just lays with me, and I get topet her, and she just gives me
this warm energy.
I just love it.
I just love it.
It reminds me when I taughtonline, taught from home, and I
got to hang out with the dogsall day.
(02:32):
It was just Beaker and Bunsenthen, but Beaker every day, her
and I.
I could mark from the couch andI would sit with her and we
would snuggle.
So I'm gonna go throughwithdrawal when I'm back at
work.
SPEAKER_01 (02:45):
She's a sweetie.
She's just a sweet dog.
All right, what's on the showthis week?
In Science News, Chris, youfound a really fun article about
birds do during the um greatAmerican eclipse and how their,
I guess their singing changed.
SPEAKER_02 (03:05):
We're gonna talk about it more, but it's just a
way to think about and researchhow animals respond to their
environment.
And it's really cool in thataspect.
SPEAKER_01 (03:17):
And in pet science, maybe on the heels of our guest
we had last week, who talkedabout some of the there's some
concerns when you have smallchildren in the house with dogs.
And this study's kind of allabout that, about how children
aren't really ready to be arounddogs unsupervised because they
(03:37):
just don't know how dogs aresupposed to act, they don't have
enough life experience.
SPEAKER_02 (03:41):
Do you do you remember Melissa?
I'll be nice to those puppies, Ipromise.
SPEAKER_01 (03:45):
Yeah, they can't.
SPEAKER_02 (03:46):
I'll be nice to those puppies.
SPEAKER_01 (03:48):
Yeah, little kids don't know.
You have to teach them how to beto a dog with proper
supervision.
Yeah, but let's get on with theshow because there's no time
lake.
SPEAKER_02 (03:58):
Science time.
SPEAKER_01 (04:00):
This weekend's science news, it's all about
birds singing during the solareclipse.
Now, you and I took time offschool.
We went and saw the eclipse inTexas.
SPEAKER_02 (04:14):
We sure did.
And you flew, we flew out on theSaturday.
You're like, let's fly out onthe Saturday.
And I said, Are you sure?
And you said that would be agreat day to fly out.
Are you sure, Jason?
April 6th, that's a great day tofly.
And you said, Yep, I don't wantto fly any other day.
And that was my birthday, so Igot to fly out to Texas on my
(04:35):
birthday.
But the solar eclipse was on the8th.
SPEAKER_01 (04:38):
Yeah, that's right.
Um, amazing.
It was an amazing experience.
I'm very glad I've never seenone in my entire life.
They come around in yourlocation on Earth, maybe once in
your entire life, sometimesnever.
And I was like, it's time for meto see one and see what they're
all about.
And it was pretty spectacular.
SPEAKER_02 (05:00):
I had a really great time too.
It was a lot of fun going downthere.
We got to see a really fun show,and we got to see the
spectacular, I want to say lightshow, but it wasn't.
It was a lack of light show withthe totality of the eclipse.
And I wanted to wear certaincolors of clothing because I
heard that if you wear red, thatit's muted or green.
(05:22):
And so we definitely picked upsome lawn chairs, and I wore a
red shirt just to test that.
But birds actually depend onlight cues as well.
To but birds actually depend onlight cues to time daily and
seasonal behaviors, like they'resinging, like they're feeding,
(05:42):
and roosting.
And like you said, totalityoccurs at a given site only once
every 300 to 400 years.
Most wild birds actually havenever experienced such an abrupt
day-to-night to back-to-daytransition.
So the researchers they usedcommunity science, so you know,
(06:03):
avid bird watchers, and theyused autonomous sound recorders
and also something calledBirdNet, which was a machine
learning that quantified birdresponses all the way from
Mexico to Canada.
SPEAKER_01 (06:19):
So the folks that to the published this in science
wanted to know what happenedwith birds during the eclipse.
The, as you said, they usedcommunity science, which is a
solar, they used an app theybuilt called Solar Bird.
It's an app for your phone.
You can use it with no birdwatching experience.
And they logged over 11,000observations from 1,174 users in
(06:42):
the path of totality.
So where the moon went right infront of the sun.
You observe the bird for 30seconds, and then you check a
little behavior boxes, whichinclude singing and flying and
eating, and then the appautomatically calculated which
eclipse phase you were in usingGPS and Timestat.
So that was cool.
They were able to commandeer awhole swath of people in the
(07:06):
path of totality that started inMexico and ended up in Canada.
You mentioned those autonomousrecording units, those were in
southern Indiana.
So they set them up only in oneplace and they tracked bird
sounds there during the eclipse.
And then that AI system,BirdNet, identified from those
(07:26):
recordings a whole schwack ofvocalizations from 52 different
species, and then compared themwith what birds do on a normal
daily basis without the weirdeclipse.
So there's a whole lot of datathey had to parse out.
You want to talk key results?
SPEAKER_02 (07:44):
Yeah.
So with that data, they foundsome community science findings.
So the vocalizations rosesharply during totality, which
they found more singing and morebirds calling.
But flying and other behaviorsthat are visible, they dropped
significantly, probably becausebirds settled to roost or there
(08:07):
was low visibility during thetotality.
And then after totality, bothvocalizations and flight
activity increased again, whichmirrored Sado, which mirrored
pseudo-dawn burst.
And areas actually outside thepath of totality, the ones that
received partial eclipses,showed no significant changes.
SPEAKER_01 (08:31):
And just from just from us experiencing it, like it
got dark.
I was shocked how dark it got.
Like I knew it was going to getdark when totality happened, but
I was actually stunned how darkit got.
SPEAKER_02 (08:44):
But cold too.
So we were sitting next to some.
SPEAKER_01 (08:47):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (08:48):
Yeah.
We were sitting next to somepeople and they were all set up.
They had this humongousthermometer, and they had like
their camera was set up.
I was like really impressed thatthese community scientists set
up all of this apparatus, and itdropped, uh, was it 10 degrees?
SPEAKER_01 (09:11):
Well, it was in Fahrenheit.
Yeah, Fahrenheit.
SPEAKER_02 (09:13):
So yeah, we're not quite sure.
SPEAKER_01 (09:16):
It got colder.
SPEAKER_02 (09:17):
And because we felt colder, and my shirt was doing
the changing color.
It was pretty cool.
It became more muted.
SPEAKER_01 (09:24):
Yeah.
So I can imagine if you were abird and it got instantaneously
that dark and cold, you're like,it's time to go, it's nighttime.
It just would make sense, Iguess.
Now they did have the AI fieldrecorder findings that they had
to go through.
Of the 52 species detected, 29showed significant behavior
(09:44):
changes.
11 species increased theirvocalization before totality,
and 12 species changed duringtotality.
Half increased, half decreased.
19 species behavior alteredafter, mostly increased singing.
So the singing kind of changedas totality happened and after
totality.
(10:06):
And then specifically, theAmerican Robin vocalization was
five times higher during theeclipse and six times higher
after.
And remember, they're using thatthe AI field recorders to
compare with control, whichwould have been the day before
no eclipse.
And the barred owl had fourtimes more calls after totality.
(10:29):
So there was about a 50%increase in observed species
showing some kind of disruptiondue to the light change.
So that's cool.
That's really good data.
SPEAKER_02 (10:41):
So do we just want to go to the ecological and
biological implications?
SPEAKER_01 (10:44):
Yeah, let's skip down there.
Yep.
SPEAKER_02 (10:46):
So what they found were several ecological and
biological implications throughthis study.
The return of light is aparticularly strong biological
cue.
Even that four-minute quoteunquote night of totality can
reset a bird's behavior.
And that confirms that circadianrhythms in many species are
(11:09):
tightly driven to light.
Roughly half of the species wereunaffected, which suggests maybe
species-specific differences inlight sensitivity.
And it provides a rare,large-scale natural test of
light mechanisms, unlike whatthey can do in the lab with
(11:30):
light and darkness.
SPEAKER_01 (11:32):
The whole sky turned dark versus a couple birds you
have in your lab.
SPEAKER_02 (11:37):
Exactly.
Exactly.
And it offers insight into theecological impacts of artificial
light at night.
I actually just saw anadvertisement for the Dark Skies
conference in Jasper, and itjust made me reflect on all the
things that they do to keep thata dark sky preserve.
And I know you bug me aboutputting leaving the outside
(11:59):
light on because you're like, itbugs the moths.
It's not good for them.
Yeah.
That whole idea of lightimpacting birds is prevalent.
And that that could causesimilar disruptions on a global
scale.
Birds can crash into buildingsbased on light cues.
(12:20):
They could get off of migrationpatterns based on light cues.
So it's a strong ecologicalimplication of light.
SPEAKER_01 (12:29):
And I guess the flip side of that is half of the
birds appear to be not affectedby it.
Right?
Like the half of the birds, thesun goes away and they're like,
oh, whatever.
Just keep on doing what they'redoing.
Uh yeah.
It'd be interesting.
I was thinking about this whenwe left because we didn't have
Bernoulli yet, right?
(12:50):
This was last year before, amonth or two before we got
Bernoulli as a little goober.
Um, it would be so cool to havethe dogs outside and then just
watch have a camera on them tosee what they would do.
Like what would have Bunsen andbe?
Would they have been unaffectedby it?
Or would they have changed theirbehavior?
You know?
SPEAKER_02 (13:09):
I don't know, but there's gonna be a solar eclipse
in our neck of the woods comingout of the world.
SPEAKER_01 (13:13):
Yeah, when is that?
When is that?
SPEAKER_02 (13:16):
Wasn't it like 2028?
SPEAKER_01 (13:19):
Oh man, we're gonna be so old.
SPEAKER_02 (13:21):
Oh wow.
No, wasn't it 2044?
SPEAKER_01 (13:25):
Yeah, like it's 2044, Chris.
That's we're gonna be old.
SPEAKER_02 (13:30):
No, I thought it was a lot sooner for us.
I'll have to look it up again.
SPEAKER_01 (13:34):
No, the next total eclipse visible from Alberta
will be August 22nd.
So a couple days after mybirthday, on 2 2044, there will
be a partial eclipse on 2026, onAugust 12th.
We'll get the Europe will gettotality.
SPEAKER_02 (13:53):
So watch the skies and the behavior of your pets.
SPEAKER_01 (13:56):
All right, that's science news for this week.
This week in Pet Science, we'regonna look at a study published
in the Anthrozoos.
It's concluded kids get animalbehavior wrong, and it can
sometimes have bad outcomes.
Now, we've had lots of littlekids around our dogs, but what
do we do when we have smallchildren around dogs?
(14:19):
We don't just let them go.
SPEAKER_02 (14:21):
No, we definitely we supervise.
SPEAKER_01 (14:24):
Yeah, we watched.
SPEAKER_02 (14:26):
And Melissa has made a comment about how we're more
heightened and more protectivejust to make sure that the dogs
and the kids interact in apositive way.
And she had a little bit of anegative thing because it's
she's it's not Rafi's fault thathe's four or five or six and he
(14:49):
is the way he is.
Excitable wants to run aroundwith the dog, wants to be chased
by the dog.
But like for us, we want to havewell-adjusted dogs.
And like you said, it's hard tothe kids don't necessarily
understand the cause and effectof their actions where they
think the dog is playingappropriately when it's not.
(15:12):
And we definitely want our dogsto be on their best behavior and
basically bomb proof in whateversituation that they find
themselves in.
SPEAKER_01 (15:22):
Yeah.
I would never think that thedogs would bite a kid or a small
child, but you never know.
It just takes a toddler to fallover on a dog and hurt them the
wrong way and they snip back.
Like you you'd hope that wouldnever happen, but that's always
in the back of my head becausedogs are animals, right?
You can't get in their head andknow 100% of the time what
they're thinking.
(15:43):
Exactly.
Before we get to some of therisk outlined in the study,
human-dog interactions areextremely positive for kids.
They help teach kids empathy,they help reduce stress, all of
these, they even improve theiracademic performance.
I shared actually today on Chrison our story on Instagram,
(16:04):
kindergarten or kindergartenclass got classroom puppies.
Um I know the little kids were acouple little kids started
crying, they were so overcomewith emotion seeing the puppies,
and they were reading books tothe little puppies, right?
They all got to take a turn inwith the puppies and read books,
which is really sweet.
(16:24):
And dogs are a very common pet.
Like in Canada, they're what isit, 30, 33% of homes have a dog,
40% in the United States, 31% inthe United Kingdoms, and very
high in parts of Latin America.
So you have lots and lots ofdogs everywhere.
Now, the flip side of that isdespite these, despite all these
(16:47):
this good news, um, dog bitesare a big problem globally.
You have high costs in someplaces, if because there's some
places where if you get bit andthere's some damage, you may not
have insurance.
And small children aredisproportionately affected.
And the injuries they sustainare usually bad.
SPEAKER_02 (17:11):
So that's the often with their face or head
injuries, but then they have aPTSD risk after a severe bite.
Yeah.
So talking with the benefits ofthe human-dog interaction, like
you're saying, the dog bites area growing public concern.
And UK hospitals have noticedtriple the bites from 1997 to
(17:36):
1998.
There were 2,915 bites up to9,366 in 2022 to 2023.
And children consistently havethe highest incident rates.
(18:09):
So one thing that might coincideis during the pandemic.
So dog ownership during thepandemic increased.
From the United Kingdom, it wentfrom 23% to 33% to about 34%
from 2020 to 2022, and theynotice concurrent bite
increases.
(18:31):
So why and where are childrenbitten, Jay?
SPEAKER_01 (18:34):
Well, most kids are bitten from the family's own
dog, just in day-to-dayinteractions.
86% of the bites are triggeredby child-initiated interactions,
and usually they occur withoutparental supervision.
One idea is that kids, littlekids, they they bend toward the
(18:58):
dog with their own face, andthat's why they get bit in the
face.
Like little kids are reallycurious.
The next time you're with atoddler, watch how they look at
things.
They bend forward and squat tolook at them.
Like they get right up in there.
Whereas if you think of anadult, like would you stick your
face into the face of a dog?
(19:19):
Probably not.
SPEAKER_02 (19:21):
Um definitely not a dog I don't trust.
SPEAKER_01 (19:24):
Yeah, exactly.
Not a dog you don't know.
But so I guess this is a familydog.
But more often than not, asadults, we say hello to the dog,
but we pet them.
Of course, of course, I thinkI've kissed our dogs probably 50
times today.
So I am bending my face towardsthe dog, but it's from a
different angle, right?
(19:45):
I'm not at their level squattingdown.
SPEAKER_02 (19:48):
No, that's true.
Because I had Bernoulli on oneside of my leg and Bunsen on the
other, and I was rubbing them,and I went down and I kissed
their heads.
I was up in their face, but I itwasn't me going towards them at
their eye level.
So yeah, that's that makes it alittle bit different.
And we're not as unpredictable.
(20:08):
Yeah, kids are talking to thedog.
Yeah, the kids areunpredictable, and I don't do
quick and sudden movements.
SPEAKER_01 (20:17):
So, what this study was looking at was examining how
kids from four to seven andversus adults interpret dog and
human facial expressions.
So they were trying to figureout kids just get wrong dogs
kind of their dog's facialbehavior, right?
(20:37):
Like we've been around angrydogs before, and you're like,
that dog is angry, but perhaps asmall child wouldn't clue in on
that.
So that's what they use.
They used like angry dog faces,angry human faces, happy dog
faces, happy human faces, andneutral dog human faces using
photos.
You were gonna say, Chris, goahead.
SPEAKER_02 (20:59):
Yeah, but there is a core knowledge gap that they
found.
So children, not only children,actually many adults, poorly
read dogs' body and facialsignals, and actually having
ownership or experience withdogs does not reliably predict
their accuracy of being able toread the body or facial signals.
(21:21):
So prior work, prior study showsfrequent misreading of
aggressive signals as happy anda limited understanding of
neutral expressions in dogs.
And that's kids and adultsalike.
SPEAKER_01 (21:34):
Yeah, that's interesting.
I don't have any knowledge ofthat.
What does a neutral dog facelook like?
I don't know.
I'd have to probably, yeah, Iguess so.
SPEAKER_00 (21:44):
I guess so, beaker face.
SPEAKER_01 (21:46):
They had 89 kids of between that age of four to
seven and 30 adults.
They gave them 24 black andwhite photos with the different
emotions per series of differenttypes of dogs and different
folks, people in it, and theyrandomized it.
Showed the test subjects thepictures and had them interpret
(22:08):
the emotion happy, angry, orneutral.
And I guess this is the crux ofit.
What did the study find, Chris?
SPEAKER_02 (22:17):
They found that the angry dog faces, which is the
most critical, there was majorchild misinterpretation in
improving with age, butpersisting at seven years.
The four-year-olds, 67%misinterpreted angry dog faces.
Five-year-olds was 70%,six-year-olds was 58%, whereas
(22:41):
the seven-year-olds was the 46%,and the adults had one error,
which was 0.8%.
SPEAKER_01 (22:49):
Whoa.
Okay.
Not even close.
SPEAKER_02 (22:52):
Exactly.
Not even close.
Four-year-olds, definitelyfive-year-olds, they're not
interpreting an angry dog face,they just don't know.
So the most common error in thechildren, they thought the angry
dogs were happy as opposed tobeing angry dogs.
Four-year-olds were 78%incorrect.
(23:16):
They thought the angry dog washappy, and five-year-olds was
higher at 86%, and thensix-year-olds was lower at 66%,
and then seven-year-olds itdropped off to the 43.
So it seems like thefive-year-olds is a sweet spot
for very much misinterpretation.
SPEAKER_01 (23:36):
Wow.
That's see, I knew it was goingto be something like this until
we we looked at the study.
And even though I looked at itobviously before we started
talking, it's just such ashocking percentage.
Like kids, this is the bigthing, is the kids don't know.
They just don't have the lifeexperience to get when a dog is
upset.
SPEAKER_02 (23:57):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (23:58):
This is what the this is what the data says, and
that's scary.
SPEAKER_02 (24:01):
And I think that's why we were like hypersensitive.
SPEAKER_01 (24:04):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (24:05):
Like with Rafi running around the house,
jumping on the couch, Lee waschasing him, and they were
having a great time.
And it looked like they werehaving a great time, but I don't
think Bernoulli ever had anangry face, let's be honest.
But it could have gone badly.
So that's why he could havepuppy bit.
SPEAKER_01 (24:23):
He could have bit Rafi, like as a puppy, but it
would have hurt him, right?
SPEAKER_02 (24:28):
And I guess that's different.
I guess that is differentbecause puppies are Bernoulli
was like eight months.
SPEAKER_01 (24:36):
He was almost full grown, but still a puppy.
SPEAKER_02 (24:39):
So there's you know no, there were there's that
humping video where Rafi'srunning outside.
SPEAKER_01 (24:45):
When he was a little puppy, that's different than
when he was running, becausehe's still he was doing that
when he was I don't know, 70, 80pounds.
SPEAKER_02 (24:54):
And Bunsen.
Like Rafi can rile up Bunsenrunning around the kitchen.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (24:59):
Bunsen has a really cool relationship with Rafi,
though.
That's for sure.
They have a neat, they have aneat relationship.
Anyways, not to the point.
SPEAKER_02 (25:08):
No, so they yeah, we'll just keep talking about
what the study found.
Angry human faces.
So there were far fewer errorsin children.
They knew when a parent wasangry, and they interpret human
anger better than canine angerfor sure.
Happy faces, children and adultsbest were best at determining a
(25:30):
happy human face, and happy dogswere harder.
The youngest children missedinterpreting a happy dog face.
And then the neutral faces werehardest overall.
So youngest children oftenperformed poorly on both
species, neutral expressions,both human and dog.
Yeah.
(25:50):
And adults still made someneutral face errors because a
neutral face is often ambiguous.
SPEAKER_01 (25:57):
Yeah.
So not to belabor theconclusion, but it's pretty
self-explanatory.
The practical conclusion is youneed to watch your kids when
they're around dogs.
There is a huge safety gap.
Kids just cannot read a dog.
Little kids cannot read a dogwhen they're angry versus happy.
(26:21):
And because of that, just watchyour kids when they're around
dogs.
And even be like us, hovering tomake sure there's no
misinterpretation or there's nobehavior by the dog on the
little kid.
SPEAKER_02 (26:34):
Exactly.
And being preventative, thatbeing making that prevention a
priority.
So teaching the facial and bodysignals, especially a conflict
escalation.
So if your dog has a wrinkledmuzzle or they have their
forward ears or they have a hardstare, their teeth are showing.
Have the child clue into thoseare your dog is uncomfortable
(26:57):
and it could escalate.
But then also sometimes dogswill display behaviors where
they're trying to diffuse it.
So turning away and then liplicking or yawning.
So those are signals that dogsare like, whoa, this is too much
here.
And then the kids sometimes theyjust don't interpret those.
And so then they keep going, andthen that's past the point of
(27:20):
danger, right?
Because the dog is trying toshow, I'm trying to diffuse the
situation, but I can't becauseit the child just keeps is
relentless.
SPEAKER_01 (27:33):
Yep.
All this being said, don't bediscouraged in not getting a dog
if you're you've got little kidsat home.
Callan came home to us as apuppy when Adam was a little
guy, and they had just thesweetest relationship.
That was really cool for Adamand Duncan.
(27:54):
Like, how old was Duncan when wegot Callan?
12?
11?
He was young.
Yeah.
So, you know, Callan has beengone for a while now, but like
that was very cool for them togrow up with a dog.
It was wonderful.
Alright, that's pet science forthis week.
That's it for this week's show.
Thanks for coming back weekafter week to listen to the
(28:14):
Science Podcast.
And a shout out to all the topdogs.
That's the top tier of ourPatreon community, The Pop Pack.
You can sign up in our shownotes.
Alright, Chris, let's hear thosenames that are part of the Top
Dogs.
SPEAKER_02 (28:28):
Amelia Fete, Ree Oda, Carol Hanel, Jennifer
Challen, Linnea Janet, KarenCronister, Vicky Oteiro, Christy
Walker, Sarah Brown, Wendy,Diane, Mason and Lou, Helen
Chin, Elizabeth Boujois,Marianne McNally, Katherine
Jordan, Shelly Smith, LauraSteffenson, Tracy Leinbaugh,
(28:50):
Anne Uchida, Heather Burvach,Kelly, Tracy Halbert, Ben
Rather, Debbie Anderson, SandyPrimer, Mary Rader, Bianca Hyde,
Andrew Lynn, Brenda Clark,Brianne Hawes, Peggy McKeel,
Holly Birch, Kathy Zurker, SusanWagner, and Liz Button.
SPEAKER_00 (29:09):
For science, empathy, and cuteness.
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