November 29, 2025 • 46 mins
When the brain gets knocked, it fights back—at least for a while. We open with new research that uses ALPS MRI to watch the glymphatic “waste rivers” of the brain as they surge after repeated head impacts and then falter when the system is pushed too far. That real-time look at fluid flow explains why early symptoms can be misleading and why rest, recovery windows, and better sideline calls aren’t just policy—they’re neuroprotection. We talk sports protocols, long-term risk, and how biomarkers could warn athletes before decline sets in.
Then we lean into joy with rigor. Our pet science segment dives into a Cambridge study of more than a thousand golden retrievers showing that genes tied to trainability, fear of strangers, energy, and dog-to-dog aggression overlap with human genes for anxiety, depression, and intelligence. It’s not destiny; it’s sensitivity. We unpack how emotional regulation genes shape learning and coping, why some “bad” behavior is actually distress, and how training plans can be kinder and more effective when they support the nervous system, not just reward the behavior.
To cap it off, we welcome John Reider,, the chief bubble dude behind Atomic Bubbles, for a whimsical masterclass in safe, scented bubbles for pets. He breaks down cosmetic-grade ingredients, water-soluble fragrances, and machine-friendly formulas that make durable bubbles dogs and cats actually chase. We explore lavender and pheromone-infused bubbles as floating diffusers for calming anxious pets, plus practical notes on storage, allergy concerns, and why bacon and peanut butter scents work without real allergens.
Curious about brain health, dog behavior, and the science of pure fun? Hit play, subscribe for more smart, warm conversations, and share this episode with a friend who loves science—and their pets.
ATOMIC BUBBLES with links to their socials!
Here is the link to all our socials and stuff!!!
For Science, Empathy, and Cuteness!
Being Kind is a Superpower.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_03 (00:09):
Hello, science enthusiasts.
I'm Jason Zakowski.
SPEAKER_02 (00:12):
And I'm Chris Zakkowski.
SPEAKER_03 (00:14):
We're the pet parents of Bunsen, Beaker,
Bernoulli, and Ginger.
SPEAKER_02 (00:18):
The science animals on social media.
If you love science and you lovepets, you've come to the right
spot.
So put on your safety glassesand hold on to your tail.
SPEAKER_03 (00:29):
This is the Science Podcast.
Welcome back to the SciencePodcast.
We hope you're happy and healthyout there.
This is episode 34 of seasonseven.
Chris, are you enjoying the niceweather we've had the last
couple days?
SPEAKER_02 (00:44):
Jason, we woke up today to what minus 25?
SPEAKER_03 (00:49):
Yeah, it was cold this morning.
SPEAKER_02 (00:51):
It was chilly, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (00:53):
Mm-hmm.
And of course, the dogs,especially the burners, are
impervious to it and they lovesnow.
So we haven't had a lot of snow,and then it snowed and it
melted, and then it snowed againand then got super cold.
So all of them are way moreconcerned with playing in the
snow than going to the bathroom,as I'm freezing to death this
morning taking them out.
(01:14):
So I think in a couple weeksI'll be acclimated to it.
But yeah, that was a bit of ashock this morning.
Okay.
All right, what's on our showthis week?
In Science News, we're going totalk about a new presentation by
the Radiological Society ofNorth America about head
injuries and the ability of thebrain to basically waste clean
(01:36):
toxins.
So it's an interesting take onhow head injuries can affect us.
And in science news, it'sactually one that you found,
Chris.
It was about how goldenretrievers and humans are maybe
more similar than we thinkgenetically.
SPEAKER_02 (01:52):
Yeah, it was super cool when I found that one.
I was like, yep, this is a goodone.
SPEAKER_03 (01:57):
In our ask an expert section, and it is the chief
bubble guy, John Ryder.
So he's going to be talking tous about bubbles, which uh is
near and dear to my heartbecause I love bubbles.
I think they're whimsical.
SPEAKER_02 (02:10):
Yeah, so much so that you should have got the
bubble mix out to freeze thebubbles because it was so cold.
You could do your snow globescience with your bubbles.
SPEAKER_03 (02:20):
Yeah, that's fun.
All right, let's get on with it.
There's no time lake.
SPEAKER_02 (02:26):
Science time.
SPEAKER_03 (02:27):
This week in Science News, we're going to talk about
some new findings that will bepresented to the radiological
society of North America abouthow repeated head injuries are
causing issues with the brain'sability to waste clean.
Now, I understand that repeatedhead injuries can lead to some
(02:48):
pretty serious cognitive issues.
And we associate those sportslike boxing and mixed martial
arts and even football withrepeated head injuries.
Do you hear that about some ofyour students in football,
Chris, that they do get somepretty severe head injuries?
SPEAKER_02 (03:06):
Actually, Jason, that's really interesting
because in the classroom I seenew protocols being followed for
concussions.
Whereas before you might havesaid, oh, and not been worried
about it as a parent.
Yep, that's just something thathappens playing football,
crunching helmets, or mixedmartial arts or boxing.
Now it's quite a concern, and wehave very specific protocols to
(03:28):
follow when a student has a headinjury.
SPEAKER_03 (03:31):
Sport-related traumatic brain injuries, TBIs,
they make up 30% of all braininjuries.
And it's not just football.
I'm just saying football becausethat's the most common
likelihood at our school.
I've had kids with really badconcussions and they play
volleyball.
They just got smoked in the headby a spike one game and it led
to a concussion.
(03:53):
And previous studies havealready concluded that repeated
head impacts are directly linkedto a risk for neurodegenerative
disease and neuropsychiatricconditions.
So they they're pretty, it'spretty well established that if
you smoke your head more thanonce, you increase your risk
every time of something goingwrong really bad.
SPEAKER_02 (04:14):
Right.
And this study focused on thelymphatic system, which is the
brain's waste disposal networkand how it appeared to weaken
over time after repeated blowsto the head.
SPEAKER_03 (04:26):
So this is not something I'm an expert on,
right?
Like I'm more chemistry-basedthan human anatomy-based.
So I'm going off some of theresearch.
So your brain has fluid-filledchambers, and these push waste
products, toxins, and otherbyproducts of metabolism out of
your brain, like from its nornormal processes, it's gonna
(04:47):
make some, it's gonna make somewaste.
It functions similarly to yourbody's lymphatic system, but
it's localized within braintissue.
These channels help maintainfluid balance, but they also
deliver nutrients and immunecells to the brain, and they
protect your brain during injuryby buffering against blows or
(05:10):
damage, or even, God forbid,something gets through your
skull.
SPEAKER_02 (05:13):
I would love to talk about the methodology that the
researchers use to measurelymphatic function.
So they used something calleddiffusion tensor imaging along
the paravascular space, DTIAlps, and that is an advanced
MRI technique that actuallytracks water movement in
(05:34):
lymphatic pathways.
And it was a non-invasivebiomarker of lymphatic health.
And they said, or they foundlower ALPS values have been
associated with cognitivedecline in diseases like
Alzheimer's and Parkinson's,which we have talked on the
podcast about before.
SPEAKER_01 (05:53):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (05:54):
So poor glyc, but so poor lymphatic function may
allow damaged proteins toaccumulate, which contributes to
various dementias.
SPEAKER_03 (06:05):
And all of this is about those fluid-filled
chambers, right?
Or channels in your brain.
So if they can track the fluid,that maybe should there should
be more of it moving in and out,obviously, just like a river, as
the river starts to dry up butleaves stuff behind.
And the stuff that it leavesbehind, not so good for your
brain.
This data came from theprofessional athletes' brain
(06:27):
health study that was run byCleveland Clinic.
It tracks 900 active fighters.
So we're dealing mostly with thefolks who are most at risk.
And 300 of them and 300 of themhad been followed for at least
three years.
95 out of the 280 fighters intotal had cognitive impairment
at baseline.
(06:47):
And then they were matchedagainst 20 people as control.
So of those fighters, 95 of themhad something they would
consider significant,significantly going on with
their brain, and their controlwas just normal, normal people
off the street that had noproblem.
SPEAKER_02 (07:04):
What the researchers expected to find was cognitively
impaired fighters to have alower ALPS value at the start.
But instead, impaired fightershad significantly higher ALPS
values initially compared tounimpaired fighters.
But over time, those ALPS valuesdropped sharply in impaired
(07:27):
athletes.
And actually the lymphaticfunction declined further as the
number of knockouts increased.
And they oof, yeah, theyinterpreted this where the brain
actually may initially ramp upits waste clearing activity as a
response to repeated trauma.
Your brain's, hey, this isn'tvery good.
(07:49):
I need to ramp up my cleanupcrew.
But with continued head impacts,the system becomes overloaded
and it eventually weakens.
So at a certain point, thebrain's, I can't keep up and I'm
just going to give up.
SPEAKER_03 (08:05):
An analogy might be there's some grade nines making
a mess at lunch and you're okaycleaning it up.
So you know they're going to bemessy.
So maybe you get there earlywith an extra mop, but then over
time, you don't have enough timeto clean it up and the mess
spreads.
And eventually you're just like,this is stupid.
Why am I cleaning up after thegrade nines?
And then you just leave.
(08:26):
Sorry if you're a grade ninestudent listening, but make sure
to tell your friends to clean upat lunch.
SPEAKER_02 (08:31):
That's right.
That's what I tell the kids.
I'm like, uh, please clean upyour mess.
SPEAKER_03 (08:35):
Yeah.
So understanding thesevulnerabilities could enable
early detection of braindegeneration.
So they could track the ALPSindex, giving them more rest or
medical intervention, or atleast perhaps saying what you're
doing is going to damage yourbrain long term.
So maybe look at a differentcareer that doesn't allow you to
(08:56):
get knocked out all the time.
The importance, though, isintervening before symptoms
appear.
So perhaps all of thisinformation will give scientists
and doctors that toolset to tellthese fighters knock it off
without getting knocked out.
SPEAKER_02 (09:12):
Ooh, there you go.
That's right.
That could be crucial forprotecting lifelong brain
health.
SPEAKER_03 (09:17):
Now I was in martial arts for a while.
SPEAKER_02 (09:19):
I know.
So reading this study was aproblem for me, Jason, because
you definitely got hit in thehead quite a few times.
SPEAKER_03 (09:27):
I did.
Yeah.
Not hard though.
Like, not enough.
I never I got hit once reallyhard in a tournament, actually.
But like when we were sparring,we had headgear on, and I we had
I always wore a mouth guard, andwe never hit each other at a
hundred percent.
Like we weren't trying to knockeach other out at all.
It was more like heavy tag, ifthat makes sense.
(09:51):
So if you got kicked or punchedin the head, you knew you got
hit, but it never really hurt.
I don't know if that I don'tknow if that helps.
SPEAKER_02 (09:59):
No, it doesn't because you definitely sparred
against Gavin, who is a largemammal.
SPEAKER_03 (10:06):
He's a huge dude, very strong guy, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (10:08):
And very strong.
SPEAKER_03 (10:09):
Definitely had to work on my defense for sure.
If I was paired with that guy,he made me better.
Yeah, and yeah, in thetournament, the ref called stop,
and the guy just decked me.
Anybody going into martial arts,you always gotta defend
yourself.
I was not expecting that.
I got drilled pretty hard and myjaw locked up for a second.
Uh, I don't think I ever toldyou that.
(10:31):
But I was like, oh my god, myjaw's broken.
But it loosened up after a bit.
And I won the match.
So there you go.
SPEAKER_02 (10:39):
There you go, but not really.
SPEAKER_03 (10:41):
Yeah.
Okay.
That's science news for thisweek.
This week in Pet Science, let'stalk about golden retrievers,
Chris.
SPEAKER_02 (10:49):
I know.
We actually have a goldenretriever.
Her name is Beaker.
Oh, she's a control.
I know.
And so every time I see thingsabout golden retrievers or
Bernice Mountain Dogs, oractually really any dog or cat,
my ears perk up for sure.
SPEAKER_03 (11:04):
Your our niece and nephew were over.
I guess there's actually likeour great niece and nephew, Rafi
and Ellie.
And Beaker is always so gentle.
Like she just sits proudly andthey pet her.
Whereas Bernoulli gets a littlewild.
He likes to run around and whatdid Bruno, what did Rafi say?
Bernoulli knocked him over likea Bammittin or something.
(11:25):
He was playing Bammitton withhim.
Something.
SPEAKER_02 (11:28):
Yeah.
And then he was like, Bunsen issuch a good boy, and Beaker is
such a good girl, and Bernoulliis crazy.
SPEAKER_03 (11:37):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (11:38):
Bernoulli's a lot.
SPEAKER_03 (11:39):
But he but he's young, and Rafi was running
around screaming.
So that just that nothing Iwatched the TikTok guy and he
was talking about there isnothing dogs love more than to
be riled up.
You're not supposed to rile updogs, but some dogs just love to
get riled up.
And Bernoulli, it is hisfavorite thing to get riled up.
(12:00):
He just loves it.
SPEAKER_02 (12:01):
I was very proud of Bernoulli, though, because in
the past in the past, he getsthe humping sensation, and he
did not at all with Rafi thistime.
So that was a win.
SPEAKER_03 (12:14):
Let's head back to golden retrievers because that's
what the study's about.
Researchers have discovered thatgenes influencing golden
retriever behavior.
So this includes some of thebreed-specific things we've
talked about before, theirability to be trained, golden
retrievers are relatively easyto train.
They're not really fearful ofstrangers, they have lots of
energy and low aggression.
(12:35):
Those traits that goldenretrievers have are influenced
by genes, may also influencehuman personality and mental
health.
So this provides perhapsevidence that golden and humans
share genetic roots foremotional and behavioral traits.
Ah, that's so cute.
SPEAKER_02 (12:56):
It is so cute.
If I could just be like Beaker,um, I'm sure the world would
love me.
SPEAKER_03 (13:03):
But the study also loves people.
She loves.
SPEAKER_02 (13:06):
She loves people.
She loves people with a force ofa thousand hurricanes.
She just loves them.
SPEAKER_03 (13:10):
On her last nerve, though, Chris.
You gotta watch out for that.
SPEAKER_02 (13:13):
I've seen that happen.
I've seen that happen.
And I've seen her protectiveside of bricks when Bernoulli
is, I think I'm gonna go seeBricks over there.
And she's like, No, you're not,Bark.
Um, but this study offers also adeeper understanding of maybe
why individual dogs vary sowidely in fearfulness, uh,
energy aggression, andtrainability, those traits that
(13:33):
you are looking at.
SPEAKER_03 (13:35):
This study comes from the University of
Cambridge, and it was publishedin the proceedings of the
National Academy of Sciences.
Good get, Chris.
That's from a good journal.
We've used this one before.
And it's the first study to showdirect overlap between genes
linked to canine behavior andgenes associated with human
emotional traits.
The three they looked at wereanxiety, depression, and
(13:56):
intelligence.
And they based it on theanalysis of over a thousand
golden retrievers genetic dataand compared it to a huge
detailed behavioralquestionnaire completed by
owners.
SPEAKER_02 (14:08):
So, in terms of the genetic findings, the
researchers identified genesconnected to specifically
trainability, energy levels,fear of strangers, and
aggression towards other dogs.
And they cross-referenced thiswith human genetic studies.
They found that 12 dog geneswere found to influence human
(14:30):
behavior and emotionalregulation as well.
One of the genes that they foundwas the PTPN1 gene.
And in dogs, that gene isassociated with aggression
towards other dogs.
Whereas in humans, that gene isassociated with intelligence and
depression.
SPEAKER_03 (14:52):
You have to be really smart but sad all the
time.
SPEAKER_02 (14:55):
Yeah, exactly.
Another gene variation found infearful golden retrievers linked
to fear of other dogs.
But in humans, it associated itwith dwelling on embarrassment
and high educationalachievement.
SPEAKER_03 (15:10):
Weird.
SPEAKER_02 (15:11):
It is weird, but it does have implications for
training behavior and care ofyour animals.
So the findings revealed thatsome dogs are genetically
predisposed to stress oremotional sensitivity.
And sometimes theirquote-unquote bad behavior may
sometimes reflect geneticallydriven distress, not
(15:33):
disobedience.
So, as you and I have alwayssaid, all dogs are good dogs,
but sometimes you see badbehavior or behavior that's poor
choice, and maybe they can'thelp it.
Maybe it's just that reflectionof their genetics.
So, knowing that owners canbetter tailor their training,
their routines, and their careby recognizing genetically
(15:57):
influenced emotional tendenciesin their dog.
And I always say that, like withour dogs, I we watch them very
carefully when they're happy,healthy, but then also when
they're not happy and unhealthy,noticing that and trying to
catch things as they come.
And lastly, behavioral traitslike fearfulness may respond
well to treatments used forhuman conditions, like using
(16:20):
anti-anxiety meds whenappropriate.
But for that, make sure youreach out to your vet person,
your vet.
SPEAKER_03 (16:29):
Yeah, don't listen to our advice on the podcast.
We're just we're just breakingdown the science.
Another gene, R-O-M-O-1, waslinked to trainability in golden
retrievers.
And ironically, in humans, thisgene was tried tied the and
ironically in humans, this geneis tied to intelligence and
emotional sensitivity.
(16:49):
This may suggest that dogtraining isn't only mechanical.
Emotional regulation genes mayaffect how well a dog learns.
So training should thereforeconsider emotional support, not
just giving them a treat basedon their behavior and how you
want to shape it.
SPEAKER_02 (17:06):
That's right.
When we have gone through dogtraining, we've been encouraged
to make training fun, maketraining exciting, change up
your voice, all those things tomake the dog respond more on a
potentially an emotional level,as opposed to just doing the
thing because we want them to dothe thing.
Now we're very fortunate thatour dogs are food motivated, so
(17:29):
they love to do the thing.
They say, Hi, my name isBernoulli.
I work for treats.
He does work for treats.
He works for treats, but he alsoworks for that high praise and
that love.
Like he, of all of our dogs, isresponds very highly to that
positive reinforcement.
SPEAKER_03 (17:51):
Yeah, he just wants to make you proud.
He just like beams when he getsit.
It's really cute.
Just a heads up, the study didmention that these genes do not
produce specific behaviors.
If you have a gene forfearfulness, your the dog will
be aggressive.
Instead, they just influenceoverall states of emotion, their
(18:11):
sensitivity to stress, and theirbehavior regulation.
They may have some of thesegenes that code for these
influences, but the dog may notshow them.
They may have a steady emotionalstate despite them being gene
coded to not.
Dogs with non-social fear, solike they're scared of things
like vacuum cleaners or buses,they present uh they possess a
(18:31):
gene that in humans contributesto irritability and anxiety,
similar to humans being anxiousor sensitive about stuff.
Pets don't just share our homes,they also share our
psychological challenges of themodern environment.
Oh man, we were at Costco today.
Costco stresses me out.
That's too many people gettingbananas and stuff in the same
(18:55):
area.
SPEAKER_02 (18:56):
It was a lot today.
Boy oh boy.
There was a lot of people inthere.
SPEAKER_03 (19:02):
If I felt like barking at people, and if I was
a dog, I'd be like, what is thisplace?
That is not a normal place.
That is a modern environmentthat we were never genetically
selected to deal with.
We just have to deal with it.
SPEAKER_02 (19:17):
I love Costco.
SPEAKER_03 (19:20):
If you're wondering where the if you're wondering
where the genes for these dogsand how they were analyzed came
from, that comes from the GoldenRetriever Lifetime Study that's
tracked thousands of dogs since2012.
And then they have also had aquestionnaire for a bunch of
people in the study.
They analyzed blood samples fromthe dogs and searched their
(19:42):
entire genome for the geneticmarkers associated with each
behavioral category.
So just as an aside, there, theydid actually look at the genes
of the golden retrievers, whichis cool.
SPEAKER_02 (19:54):
That is so cool.
SPEAKER_03 (19:56):
We maybe should cut Beaker some slack.
Maybe she has some of thosegenes that were identified in
this study.
Maybe.
All right.
That's pet science for thisweek.
It's time for Ask an Expert onthe Science podcast.
And I'm thrilled to welcome JohnRyder, the chief bubble dude of
Techno Bubbles.
John, how are you doing today?
SPEAKER_00 (20:15):
Jason, I'm doing wonderful.
Glad to glad to be with you andyour listeners this evening,
man.
It's awesome.
SPEAKER_03 (20:22):
I'm very excited to talk to you about bubbles.
They're whimsical.
And just as an aside to maybegive you an idea why I'm excited
to talk about it, is I presentat teachers' conventions and I
present on the science ofbubbles.
That's one of my things that Ido with my students.
So I'm all in on the bubbles.
I understand how whimsical theyare.
(20:43):
I used to do about fiveexperiment experiments when I
would show this to teachers, andwe never got through the bubble
one.
They just became little kids andwanted to play with the bubbles
all day long.
So yeah, magic stuff.
SPEAKER_00 (20:56):
Yeah, isn't that amazing how that little soapy
sphere can transport even uheven a grown person back to
their childhood and just makethem smile and just uh bring
back all those awesome memoriesof playing with bubbles as a
kid, huh?
SPEAKER_03 (21:09):
Yeah, no matter how deep we push it, the child in us
wants out all the time.
So yeah, that's very true.
SPEAKER_00 (21:15):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (21:16):
Where are you in the world, though?
I always ask our guests whereare you calling into the show
from?
SPEAKER_00 (21:20):
You know what?
I am right in the middle, St.
Louis, Missouri.
We're almost smack dab, right inthe middle of the United States.
Uh great part of the country.
We love it here.
SPEAKER_03 (21:30):
I'll have to get down there one of these days.
Just you'll laugh.
I arrived with a little bit oftime to spare for this interview
because it's blizzarding rightnow for us.
So much snow is coming down.
I don't imagine it's the sameweather for you in Missouri.
SPEAKER_00 (21:44):
Oh my God.
I think we had 74 degrees.
It's definitely not the sameweather.
Keep it there if you would,Jason.
SPEAKER_03 (21:52):
Oh, yeah.
I can't wait for the snow.
I'm one of the Canadians thatjust loves the winter.
Yeah, we'll keep I'll keep it uphere for you.
Great.
Um, and before we talk about thewhole bubble thing, right?
Was that like I don't want topresume anything that you
weren't doing bubble stuff yourwhole life, but just out of
curiosity, what have you been,what were you up to before this
(22:13):
the bubble venture?
SPEAKER_00 (22:14):
I was always this curious kid.
I was always someone that when aservice man came to the house to
like work on the stove or thefurnace or the air conditioning
man, I was I was his shadow.
So I was always this mechanicalkid and always loved working
with things in my hands.
Things I've done in my life,I've been a I've been a
professional chef.
We've I my education, myschooling is in aircraft
(22:37):
engineering.
I worked at Donald Douglas onthe F-15 fighter jet for about
five years.
And then we we played aroundwith high-tech electronics for
about 20 years, too, doingeverything from home automation
and security and home theaterwhen that big craze was going on
back in the late 80s, early 90swhen all that launched.
We were doing high-techelectronics, and really bubbles
(22:58):
were nowhere in my future,really, or in my life, really.
SPEAKER_03 (23:02):
Oh that's that what a cool, varied career to get to
this point.
I don't think I've talked to aguest yet that has worked on the
fighter jet.
So that's very interesting.
SPEAKER_00 (23:12):
Jason, all the all the money my dad spent on
college education and stuff,he's no longer with us, but I
always look up to the heavensand say, Dad, at least bubbles
are still aerodynamic.
I think the tuition money didn'tgo all the waste.
SPEAKER_03 (23:26):
So that's sweet.
Yeah, that's a good way to tieit back.
Yeah.
All right.
So here's the people are like abubble guy, chief bubble guy,
chief bubble dude.
CBD, right?
You called yourself.
That's that's cool.
What are these atomic bubbles?
What are they?
And what's the story for howthey came about?
SPEAKER_00 (23:44):
Yeah, atomic bubbles is a culmination of about 20
years, 20 plus years of usplaying with soap water.
I met a guy and met a productsome 20 plus years ago called
Techno Bubbles.
It was a guy who had inventedglowing blacklight bubbles.
So he had made bubbles thatglowed under blacklight, Jason.
And they and they were amazing.
(24:05):
I saw videos of them and stuff,so I ordered some.
And by golly, they were exactlyas as advertised.
These these were glowing orbswhen you put them under
blacklight.
That started my whole interestin bubbles, this wacky uh side
of bubbles.
Over time, we we bought this guyout, we bought his patents,
trademark marks, and recipes,and then we became the face of
(24:26):
this glowing blacklight bubblecalled Techno Bubbles.
And over the years, we we wereadvertising those bubbles,
trying to market them and stuff.
And the haunted house industrywas a huge early.
Oh, cool, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
They can use them as like toxicwaste gas, radioactive fumes,
and we rode that way for awhile.
(24:46):
We still technobubbles is stilla great product, and Halloween,
all my haunted houses still comearound and buy them.
But then we got into the eventbusiness, and we have a business
called Bubble Bus.
I think you mentioned thatearly, Bubble Bus.
And it's an event business wherewe go around and peace, love,
and bubbles is our mantra wherewe go around and do events.
And then around pandemic, we gotinto the line of pet bubbles,
(25:10):
pretty love bubbles.
So we fine-tuned our craftingand dove into the pet industry
with our with our bubbleformulations.
SPEAKER_03 (25:16):
And so that leads you smacking our crosshairs
because our podcast is all aboutscience and pets, right?
I was intrigued when I believeit was your agent contacted us
about that.
I was like, oh, cool.
Um, and they are like thebubbles are made for both cat
and dogs, right?
There's cat bubbles and dogbubbles.
Did I get that correct?
SPEAKER_00 (25:36):
Yes, that is correct.
Yeah.
So we use uh kind of the sameholy grail base recipe that took
us like 60 formulations to find,and then we sent them and craft
them for dogs and cats.
So for instance, we have bacon,peanut butter, birthday cake,
pumpkin, apple pie, lavender,and then we're doing a
(25:57):
gingerbread scented bubble forfor the Christmas season for our
for our pups.
And then for our kitties, we'vegot catnip infused, which is
really our one of ourbest-selling products.
And then we just got into somecalming bubbles with some
scientifically developedpheromones that actually do slow
the heart rate of a cat andrelieve stress and anxiety.
SPEAKER_03 (26:18):
Awesome.
Perfect.
Now, I know you can't give awayyour trademark for how the
bubbles are made exactly, butI'm sure like our audience would
love to know what is some of thescience that goes into making
these bubbles, both maybe howthey're made, so they I assume
they don't pop as readily as theaverage bubble, and you infuse
(26:39):
them with these differentsmells.
If you could tell us anythingabout that, that'd be
fascinating.
SPEAKER_00 (26:43):
Yeah, absolutely.
When you go to work on a bubblefirst, there's all these weird
things that, like, if you'remaking a bubble and you want to
make it your livelihood, youhave to make a really good
bubble.
So, some of the things is youmentioned it has to be
resilient, it has to last a longtime, it has to be colorful, and
and it has to be safe.
Those are the three criteriathat that we strive for quality,
(27:06):
fun, and above all, safety.
So, yeah, so what we've done iswe've crafted these bubbles by
by going in and usinghuman-grade raw materials.
A lot of them are sourced fromthe cosmetic industry, so it's
all cosmetic grade safe.
So, again, like shampoos andstuff, so if you get it in your
eyes, you know, it's not gonnahurt or tear.
Although my bubbles aren't meantto be ingested, you can get them
(27:28):
in your system with the with noill effect.
So, in case a dog or cat getsgets them in their mouth or
whatnot.
And then the real kind of nuanceto it is trying to find sense
that dogs and cats are going toperk their heads up to.
SPEAKER_03 (27:42):
So that was my question.
Sorry, I had to jump in here.
I did peruse your website, andthat I was like, one, how did
you pick them?
Yeah, and maybe you're gonnaexplain this anyways, and I
apologize.
And two, how did you get thescent in the bubble?
If you I'm obviously you can'ttell us exactly, I understand
that.
SPEAKER_00 (27:59):
Yeah, yeah.
For dogs and peanut butter werelike no-brainers, okay.
So when you're going after a dogbubble, it's like they love
bacon and they love peanutbutter, okay?
So those were like those werethe first two bubbles we created
for puppy love.
Um in in the cat world, catnipwas was was a no-brainer as
(28:19):
well.
And we source our we put realmother nature in our catnip
bubbles.
That is real essential oil thatactually is a Canadian oil uh
that comes out of so we're uhsupporting the Canadian economy
some by uh by sourcing our uhcatnip from from you all, which
is wonderful.
SPEAKER_03 (28:35):
And is it the tree is it the catnip plant or like
another cat attracting plantthat works like catnip?
SPEAKER_00 (28:42):
No, it's actually the catnip plant that they uh
yeah, that they steam distill orcold press or however they get
it out, but it's yeah, and boy,I tell you what, it is potent,
Jason.
When we are making catnipbubbles here, boy, I tell you
what, a few drops goes a longway.
That is some powerful stuff,brother.
SPEAKER_03 (29:00):
It grows wild in parts of Canada too.
That's something that we alwaystell people.
My gosh.
Yeah, it does, just grows wild.
There's a other honeysuckle isanother wood that grows wild
some places in Canada, andthat's another one of those.
Anyway, sorry, go ahead.
SPEAKER_00 (29:14):
You have amazing catnip, and it's the and it's
the one we've settled on, andit's really put us on the map.
How we put them in is we infusethem into the bubbles, we mix
them just like I said earlier,or when you asked me what you
know what I did.
I think I did some cooking in myearly days.
So, really being a productionchemist, as you know from your
chemistry background, it's allabout measuring and making sure
(29:35):
and just letting yourimagination go.
As long as the science iscorrect, you can get very
creative in your brain.
So, really, what we have to dois we have to find fragrances
and essential oils and the rightratios of percentages to mix so
that quality of our bubble stillstays high.
A lot of our fragrances are manmade, so they're synthetic.
So, like our peanut butterfragrance smells very authentic,
(29:58):
but it was man made, so no.
Fear of peanut allergies.
SPEAKER_03 (30:02):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (30:03):
Yeah.
Yep.
And in our lavender calmingbubble for puppies, too, that is
real lavender essential oil.
And it has the same calmingattributes in animals as it does
in humans.
And it's finding that rightratio.
Not too much, not too little.
You have to worry about shelflife too.
You have to put enough inbecause that little bit of soap,
that cosmetic grade soap that weput in to make them bubbles,
(30:25):
starts deteriorating thosefragrances over time.
So it's we tout about a two-yearshelf life on our bubbles for
fragrance.
So after about that, they theythe bubbles still blow, but the
fragrance starts going away.
SPEAKER_03 (30:35):
Yeah.
That is that's interesting.
And I totally get probably usingsome kind of ester for your
peanut butter smell because youpeople won't have the same kind
of or at all the anaphylacticreaction to that.
SPEAKER_00 (30:48):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Early on, the first we weregetting a lot of pushback on
that peanut butter, but althoughpeople liked it and their pets
loved it, we very quickly had toput allergen-free and advertise
that because people reallythought it's man, this smells so
authentic.
It's but I can't use it becauseI have a peanut allergy or my
kiddos have peanut allergies orsomething like that.
So yeah, it's again, it goesback to that safety.
(31:09):
We want to make sure that whenpeople are people and pets are
using our bubbles, that they'rejust as safe as they can be, and
then just having as much fun asthey can have with our bubble
products.
SPEAKER_03 (31:19):
So would that mean your bacon one is quote unquote
vegetarian as the smell is notfrom actual meat?
Or am I getting that one?
SPEAKER_00 (31:26):
No, you're absolutely correct.
It is, it's a it's a synthetic,it's a man-made fragrance that's
water soluble, so it stays uhstays emulsified in the bubbles.
Uh but yes, it is there is nomeat product or any part of any
animal that's used during theproduction uh of any of our
products.
SPEAKER_03 (31:44):
I think you answered another question that I had just
from listening to you talk, andhumans can smell the smells,
right?
Like they're strong enough forus to smell.
SPEAKER_00 (31:54):
Absolutely, yeah.
So there's that dance that youhave to do because you don't
want to make it so overpoweringthat it is not pleasant to the
human who's blowing them.
Because dogs and cats, dogs andcats, their their noses are on
steroids, man.
You know, they can so yeah, sowe want to put enough in.
Mr.
Smith, when he buys our bubble,says, Oh wow, yeah, these are
(32:14):
peanut bubbles, but they'reprobably pretty supercharged to
the, you know, I mean to the dogbecause they could probably
smell them a mile away.
SPEAKER_03 (32:20):
Nice.
Yeah, cool, cool.
Yeah.
I was just, I'm glad you saidthat if you got them in your
body, like they're safe becauseit some of them do sound
delicious.
And I can imagine the odd humanblowing the bubbles and not
having supper yet and just belike, one for the dog, one for
me.
SPEAKER_00 (32:37):
Right.
Now there is there's anothercompany out there that makes
what they call a an ediblebubble or a bubble that they put
flavorings in.
And we chose not to go thatroute because we wanted to
entice the animals to play, butwe did not want them in case a
bottle of bubbles spilt over orsomething, we did not want to
encourage them to like lap, liketo drink this down.
(33:00):
Um, so yeah, so we took a wholedifferent avenue, and uh, people
and our customers are justthrilled with it.
SPEAKER_03 (33:08):
This is so fun.
I just I so appreciate thisconversation.
Whimsical and fun, and we've gotsome science mixed in.
So here, I don't know if you'veever done any quote unquote
scientific tests with them tosee if there's a flavor dogs
more.
If you ever got a uh a sample of10 dogs and blew some bubble
smells, is there one thatoutperforms, or is that
(33:31):
something maybe folks at homecan try?
SPEAKER_00 (33:34):
You know what?
Yes and yes.
So when we first started doingthis, again, we knew that bacon
and peanut butter were gonna beprobably uh great ones to start
with, catnip as well.
Um, we had a local doggy daycareboarding franchise system that's
here in in town, and they werewonderful.
We gave them like a dozen cents,and we gave them banana, we gave
(33:57):
them apple, we gave thempineapple, we gave them sweet
potato, like we gave them atleast 50 cents.
Yeah, you don't know.
And I tell you what, I was soamazed.
They actually did a spreadsheet,man.
They would blow the differentbubbles of dogs.
So they gave us some reallygreat feedback on on what the
dog seemed to be responding to.
(34:18):
I don't know if we have foundlike a certain breed or a
certain type of dog, you know,might like peanut butter versus
bacon or who likes pumpkinversus apple pie.
I think they're pets are a lotlike humans.
We all have our own tastes andour own things we like.
What we do know is that bubblesseem to be innately amazed with
(34:39):
bubbles in general, and when youcan scent them to entice them to
go that extra mile to getinvolved with them, boy,
wonderful things can happen.
SPEAKER_03 (34:52):
That's so fun.
What I can just imagine the dayyou you you pitched it to this
place and they were just blowingbubbles at the dogs and
scratching down notes.
That is the most fun kind ofscience I can think of because
I've done other science and itis not it's grudgery sometimes.
SPEAKER_00 (35:10):
Yeah, we have this little Willy Wonka factory here,
Jason.
On the other side of the wallhere, we were just uh banging
out bottles we call it whenwe're filling our bottles,
putting wands in them andlabeling them and sending them
up.
Actually, pet value up in Canadahas become a very good
distributor for us.
Oh, yeah.
We I know that place, you bet.
Yeah, and we actually just shipsome out to them uh today.
(35:33):
And uh, but yeah, it's it's justamazing, man.
When you can go go to work andyou really enjoy what you do,
people ask me when I'm gonnaretire.
I don't know if I'll everretire.
I'm having so much fun.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (35:45):
If you have purpose in life and that purpose is fun,
man, that's a great combination.
SPEAKER_00 (35:50):
Yeah, you know what?
If you can find it, and I'm surethat in your work as well, being
able to work with the kids andyou're sharing that you you do
the chemistry with the kiddos,and uh man, it's and I had a I
had a college professor before Ieven thought I was going, and
this was during my aircraftengineering, it was a business
class, and we did this modelingthing where you had to create
your own business and createthese virtual products.
And he was the gentleman whoreally instilled that
(36:13):
entrepreneurialism in me.
Before that class, I never Inever even thought about being
my own boss, and so you justnever know in life sometimes,
like kids in your class, you mayspark that that one thing with
chemistry.
I'm not a chemist, but I knowhow to cook.
SPEAKER_03 (36:28):
Yeah.
There's a lot of similarities,I'll tell you that, between the
two.
SPEAKER_00 (36:33):
Yeah, you know what?
There are a lot of similarities,and uh, but again, it's just
staying staying interested, andI still have a lot more work to
do.
There's all kinds of things onthe radar, and I think I've just
scratched the surface of what wewant to do with with atomic
bubbles and uh pet industry andthat sort of thing.
SPEAKER_03 (36:50):
Awesome.
Now, I just saw a coupletechnical things about these
bubbles.
Like we have uh bubble guns,like you pour it in, you press
the trigger, and it shoots itout kind of thing.
And we have bubble machines.
Are these safe for those type ofthings, or would they or would
they gum them up a bit?
SPEAKER_00 (37:08):
That's a great question.
And the cool thing about ourbubble formulas is they were
originally because before we gotinto the pet business, we were
doing those glow bubbles, and wehad to make those formulations
for high-speed bubble machinesand guns.
Our products will work inanything that blows bubbles for
sure.
They will not gum them up, theywill work beautiful, and yeah,
(37:29):
so that's that's what reallyputs us on the map.
Some of the alpha yeah, thingsthat we put in our bubbles to
just make them strong so thatthey can be blown out of the
machine very effectively.
SPEAKER_03 (37:40):
Nice.
And what do are they stored atroom temperature?
Do you store them in the fridge?
Yeah.
In where I live, if you leavethem stuff in the garage, it's
gonna freeze over the winter.
Just some technical thingsthere, if you don't mind
answering.
SPEAKER_00 (37:54):
Sure, as a lot of products, if you can keep them
from freezing, it's usuallybetter.
My bubbles can be frozen everyonce in a while.
They get frozen on a trip goingsomewhere in the wintertime when
they're being delivered, butthey will work.
It's best to keep them ambienttemperature and out of direct
sunlight if at all possible,just kind of ambient
temperatures.
(38:15):
Although my warehouses here inSt.
Louis get to be over 100 degreesin the wintertime, and that's
where we will store our stocksbefore we ship them out.
So yeah, they're uh they'repretty rugged, they really are.
So you can yeah, you can do justabout everything to them, but
just yeah, that freezingsometimes makes them a little
wonky.
SPEAKER_03 (38:31):
Cool, cool.
I'm intrigued about the lavenderbubbles.
You just mentioned that they'relike they're calming ones.
That for me personally, I lovethe smell of lavender.
That seems like something youcould blow just for humans to
have some kind of relaxationtoo, not just the pets.
SPEAKER_00 (38:49):
Yeah, you know what?
We we are branching into thehealth and wellness side of
this.
If if you could think health andwellness with in the form of a
bubble, but if the bubble isreally when it's evaporating, it
becomes almost like a floatingdiffuser, right?
That orbit is floating aroundand it's losing life because uh
Mother Nature is sucking themoisture out of it.
(39:10):
But yeah, the lavender bubblesare wonderful, and that kind of
gets into that health andwellness for the calming effect,
and that's why we found agentleman who's this great
scientist.
You'd love this guy.
He uh in the 70s, he was one ofthe first guys to get into the
flea and tick collar science.
And so he has invented thesepheromones, which is a man-made
(39:32):
thing, and we infuse those intoour bubbles, and it uh mimics
the maternal smells like of afemale dog and cat.
So that's what kind of makes theyoung cats or cats that are
stressed out and nervous, uh uhcalm because hey, they think
mom, man, I think mom, mom isthere, and that's very calming
to them.
So that's what these uhpheromone bubbles are all about,
(39:54):
and uh, we want to do some somemore things in that health and
wellness and get more into yourworld, a little more scientific,
it's be see where we can pushthe envelope in a crazy way with
bubbles.
That's that's what we're gonnabe working on for the years to
come.
SPEAKER_03 (40:08):
Nice.
And maybe as we just get toclose to the wrap-up of the
bubble talk here, do you haveany sneaky things you can tell
us you're that are on thehorizon beyond these getting
into the health and wellness?
Are there any new pet productsthat you're coming up with?
SPEAKER_00 (40:23):
We are going to be launching some new, I'm gonna
I'm gonna keep it under wraps alittle bit, but they're gonna
be.
I understand.
SPEAKER_03 (40:28):
Yeah, I get that.
SPEAKER_00 (40:29):
Yeah, but but they're gonna be enhancements to
our bubble product.
So it's going to be a bottle ofbubbles and then a bottle of
this new mystery product thatwe'll be launching in the first
quarter of 2026.
But we're super excited aboutit.
We think it's gonna bewonderful.
I think we'll be the only bubblecompany that's doing anything
(40:50):
like this.
So I would encourage your Iwould encourage your listeners
to keep an eye on atomic bubblesout there and puppy love and
kitty love bubbles because we'regonna be doing some some really
cool things in the first quarterof next year.
So your website to get thebubbles is atomicbubbles.com is
where your folks can go and seewhat we're doing with all of
these crazy bubbles.
(41:11):
We do human and pet bubbles.
Everything we uh we do is onthat, is on that site, Jason.
SPEAKER_03 (41:16):
Nice.
So, folks, we'll have a link tothis in our show notes.
Our normal show notes,everybody, you we have links
there.
Just click you can click toatomic bubbles within the show
notes.
This is fun talking aboutbubbles.
I appreciate you sharing alittle bit about the business.
We do have a standard questionwe ask all our guests about,
though, near the end, and that'sfor a pet story from their life.
(41:38):
A lot of our guests arescientists or science adjacent,
and what humanizes everybody isour love of pets.
And I was wondering if you couldshare a pet story with us.
SPEAKER_00 (41:48):
Sure.
Growing up, we had a Shetlandcollie dog, and for the longest
time, my mom and dad did notwant a dog.
Our neighbors had a litter andthey had these awesome pups.
And so we got a one, and hisname was Romeo.
And Romeo in the early days, Ithink that's when I really uh
(42:09):
found that relationship betweenman and dog.
Because when you're a kid, whenyou've had a bad day, maybe when
you lost a baseball game or yougot bullied at school, or you're
in trouble with mom and dad, Irealized that this furry,
four-legged being didn't reallycare about any of that.
He was always there, man, readyfor that nuzzle, ready to go
play fetch.
(42:29):
I think one of my fondestmemories is just uh having that
having that extra companionsometimes when I was a kid and
when I needed it.
And yeah, I have a lot of fondmemories about Romeo.
He was a great dog, and I thinkthat's what uh gave me the love
of animals back in grade or so.
SPEAKER_03 (42:44):
Ah, love it.
Do you have any current petstoday?
SPEAKER_00 (42:48):
You know what we do?
We have two we have a standardpoodle and a poodle doodle.
So Violet is is our doodle, anduh, she's awesome.
She's this big old furry ballthat's wonderful and she'll lick
you to death.
And yeah, and Gloria is a littlemore streamlined, so she's the
(43:09):
standard poodle.
And uh the interesting thingabout Gloria is she had to slip
on a stair on her staircase whenwe were we had her for maybe a
month or two, and she broke herleg, and unfortunately, that leg
had to be amputated.
Gloria is our three-wheeled dog,and unless I tell so many times
I will just say, Oh, yeah,that's uh violet and glow.
(43:31):
You can tell Gloria because shehas three legs, and they look
down, it's like, oh my god,she's got three.
Nobody even knows she getsaround so well.
It's amazing how she's adapted.
So we have those two two furryfur balls, and uh yeah, they're
uh they're wonderful, they'rewonderful.
SPEAKER_03 (43:45):
Yeah, dogs teach us a lesson about just getting on
with it.
They're resilient creatures,they do, man.
SPEAKER_00 (43:52):
I tell you what, uh, I think every day is a man,
she's been hopping around onthree and just been like that's
all she ever had was three legs,man, and she just gets it every
day.
So it's what's cool, super cool.
SPEAKER_03 (44:02):
Thanks for sharing your pet stories, John.
You got it, man.
You got it.
So we're at the end of the show.
Aside from atomic bubbles, canare you on social media
anywhere, or should we justdirect people to atomic bubbles?
SPEAKER_00 (44:15):
You know what?
You can go to atomic bubbles.
There's an info, info at atomicbubbles.
I atomic bubbles.
We do have a Instagram um and aFacebook.
I if you don't have them there,I can have Dana send those to
you in the morning, okay?
SPEAKER_03 (44:31):
I got them right here.
Awesome.
John, I just want to thank youfor giving up your time to talk
to us.
This was a very whimsical chat,very different than some of the
interviews we've had, and I justso appreciate it.
There's there's always room forjoy in today's world, and that's
what this has all been about.
So thank you.
SPEAKER_00 (44:50):
Thank you so much, and again, thanks, thanks for
having me on.
And to all your listeners, Ireally appreciate the
opportunity.
SPEAKER_03 (44:56):
That's it for this week's show.
Thanks for coming back weekafter week to listen to the
science podcast, and a shout outto all the top dogs.
That's the top tier of ourPatreon community, the Pop Pack.
You can sign up in our shownotes.
All right, Chris, let's hearthose names that are part of the
top dogs.
SPEAKER_02 (45:13):
Amelia Fetting, Re Oda, Carol Hanel, Jennifer
Challenge, Linnea Janet, KarenCronister, Vicky Oteiro, Christy
Walker, Sarah Brown, Wendy,Diane, Mason and Luke, Helen
Chin, Elizabeth Bourgeois,Marianne McNally, Katherine
Jordan, Shelly Smith, LauraStephenson, Tracy Leinbach, Anne
(45:36):
Uchida, Heather Burbach, Kelly,Tracy Halbert, Ben Rather,
Debbie Anderson, Sandy Brimer,Mary Rader, Bianca Hyde, Andrew
Lynn, Brenda Clark, BrianneHawes, Peggy McKeel, Holly
Birch, Kathy Zirker, SusanWagner, and Liz Button.
SPEAKER_03 (45:54):
For science, empathy, and cuteness.
Hello, science enthusiasts.
I'm Jason Zakowski.
SPEAKER_02 (00:12):
And I'm Chris Zakkowski.
SPEAKER_03 (00:14):
We're the pet parents of Bunsen, Beaker,
Bernoulli, and Ginger.
SPEAKER_02 (00:18):
The science animals on social media.
If you love science and you lovepets, you've come to the right
spot.
So put on your safety glassesand hold on to your tail.
SPEAKER_03 (00:29):
This is the Science Podcast.
Welcome back to the SciencePodcast.
We hope you're happy and healthyout there.
This is episode 34 of seasonseven.
Chris, are you enjoying the niceweather we've had the last
couple days?
SPEAKER_02 (00:44):
Jason, we woke up today to what minus 25?
SPEAKER_03 (00:49):
Yeah, it was cold this morning.
SPEAKER_02 (00:51):
It was chilly, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (00:53):
Mm-hmm.
And of course, the dogs,especially the burners, are
impervious to it and they lovesnow.
So we haven't had a lot of snow,and then it snowed and it
melted, and then it snowed againand then got super cold.
So all of them are way moreconcerned with playing in the
snow than going to the bathroom,as I'm freezing to death this
morning taking them out.
(01:14):
So I think in a couple weeksI'll be acclimated to it.
But yeah, that was a bit of ashock this morning.
Okay.
All right, what's on our showthis week?
In Science News, we're going totalk about a new presentation by
the Radiological Society ofNorth America about head
injuries and the ability of thebrain to basically waste clean
(01:36):
toxins.
So it's an interesting take onhow head injuries can affect us.
And in science news, it'sactually one that you found,
Chris.
It was about how goldenretrievers and humans are maybe
more similar than we thinkgenetically.
SPEAKER_02 (01:52):
Yeah, it was super cool when I found that one.
I was like, yep, this is a goodone.
SPEAKER_03 (01:57):
In our ask an expert section, and it is the chief
bubble guy, John Ryder.
So he's going to be talking tous about bubbles, which uh is
near and dear to my heartbecause I love bubbles.
I think they're whimsical.
SPEAKER_02 (02:10):
Yeah, so much so that you should have got the
bubble mix out to freeze thebubbles because it was so cold.
You could do your snow globescience with your bubbles.
SPEAKER_03 (02:20):
Yeah, that's fun.
All right, let's get on with it.
There's no time lake.
SPEAKER_02 (02:26):
Science time.
SPEAKER_03 (02:27):
This week in Science News, we're going to talk about
some new findings that will bepresented to the radiological
society of North America abouthow repeated head injuries are
causing issues with the brain'sability to waste clean.
Now, I understand that repeatedhead injuries can lead to some
(02:48):
pretty serious cognitive issues.
And we associate those sportslike boxing and mixed martial
arts and even football withrepeated head injuries.
Do you hear that about some ofyour students in football,
Chris, that they do get somepretty severe head injuries?
SPEAKER_02 (03:06):
Actually, Jason, that's really interesting
because in the classroom I seenew protocols being followed for
concussions.
Whereas before you might havesaid, oh, and not been worried
about it as a parent.
Yep, that's just something thathappens playing football,
crunching helmets, or mixedmartial arts or boxing.
Now it's quite a concern, and wehave very specific protocols to
(03:28):
follow when a student has a headinjury.
SPEAKER_03 (03:31):
Sport-related traumatic brain injuries, TBIs,
they make up 30% of all braininjuries.
And it's not just football.
I'm just saying football becausethat's the most common
likelihood at our school.
I've had kids with really badconcussions and they play
volleyball.
They just got smoked in the headby a spike one game and it led
to a concussion.
(03:53):
And previous studies havealready concluded that repeated
head impacts are directly linkedto a risk for neurodegenerative
disease and neuropsychiatricconditions.
So they they're pretty, it'spretty well established that if
you smoke your head more thanonce, you increase your risk
every time of something goingwrong really bad.
SPEAKER_02 (04:14):
Right.
And this study focused on thelymphatic system, which is the
brain's waste disposal networkand how it appeared to weaken
over time after repeated blowsto the head.
SPEAKER_03 (04:26):
So this is not something I'm an expert on,
right?
Like I'm more chemistry-basedthan human anatomy-based.
So I'm going off some of theresearch.
So your brain has fluid-filledchambers, and these push waste
products, toxins, and otherbyproducts of metabolism out of
your brain, like from its nornormal processes, it's gonna
(04:47):
make some, it's gonna make somewaste.
It functions similarly to yourbody's lymphatic system, but
it's localized within braintissue.
These channels help maintainfluid balance, but they also
deliver nutrients and immunecells to the brain, and they
protect your brain during injuryby buffering against blows or
(05:10):
damage, or even, God forbid,something gets through your
skull.
SPEAKER_02 (05:13):
I would love to talk about the methodology that the
researchers use to measurelymphatic function.
So they used something calleddiffusion tensor imaging along
the paravascular space, DTIAlps, and that is an advanced
MRI technique that actuallytracks water movement in
(05:34):
lymphatic pathways.
And it was a non-invasivebiomarker of lymphatic health.
And they said, or they foundlower ALPS values have been
associated with cognitivedecline in diseases like
Alzheimer's and Parkinson's,which we have talked on the
podcast about before.
SPEAKER_01 (05:53):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (05:54):
So poor glyc, but so poor lymphatic function may
allow damaged proteins toaccumulate, which contributes to
various dementias.
SPEAKER_03 (06:05):
And all of this is about those fluid-filled
chambers, right?
Or channels in your brain.
So if they can track the fluid,that maybe should there should
be more of it moving in and out,obviously, just like a river, as
the river starts to dry up butleaves stuff behind.
And the stuff that it leavesbehind, not so good for your
brain.
This data came from theprofessional athletes' brain
(06:27):
health study that was run byCleveland Clinic.
It tracks 900 active fighters.
So we're dealing mostly with thefolks who are most at risk.
And 300 of them and 300 of themhad been followed for at least
three years.
95 out of the 280 fighters intotal had cognitive impairment
at baseline.
(06:47):
And then they were matchedagainst 20 people as control.
So of those fighters, 95 of themhad something they would
consider significant,significantly going on with
their brain, and their controlwas just normal, normal people
off the street that had noproblem.
SPEAKER_02 (07:04):
What the researchers expected to find was cognitively
impaired fighters to have alower ALPS value at the start.
But instead, impaired fightershad significantly higher ALPS
values initially compared tounimpaired fighters.
But over time, those ALPS valuesdropped sharply in impaired
(07:27):
athletes.
And actually the lymphaticfunction declined further as the
number of knockouts increased.
And they oof, yeah, theyinterpreted this where the brain
actually may initially ramp upits waste clearing activity as a
response to repeated trauma.
Your brain's, hey, this isn'tvery good.
(07:49):
I need to ramp up my cleanupcrew.
But with continued head impacts,the system becomes overloaded
and it eventually weakens.
So at a certain point, thebrain's, I can't keep up and I'm
just going to give up.
SPEAKER_03 (08:05):
An analogy might be there's some grade nines making
a mess at lunch and you're okaycleaning it up.
So you know they're going to bemessy.
So maybe you get there earlywith an extra mop, but then over
time, you don't have enough timeto clean it up and the mess
spreads.
And eventually you're just like,this is stupid.
Why am I cleaning up after thegrade nines?
And then you just leave.
(08:26):
Sorry if you're a grade ninestudent listening, but make sure
to tell your friends to clean upat lunch.
SPEAKER_02 (08:31):
That's right.
That's what I tell the kids.
I'm like, uh, please clean upyour mess.
SPEAKER_03 (08:35):
Yeah.
So understanding thesevulnerabilities could enable
early detection of braindegeneration.
So they could track the ALPSindex, giving them more rest or
medical intervention, or atleast perhaps saying what you're
doing is going to damage yourbrain long term.
So maybe look at a differentcareer that doesn't allow you to
(08:56):
get knocked out all the time.
The importance, though, isintervening before symptoms
appear.
So perhaps all of thisinformation will give scientists
and doctors that toolset to tellthese fighters knock it off
without getting knocked out.
SPEAKER_02 (09:12):
Ooh, there you go.
That's right.
That could be crucial forprotecting lifelong brain
health.
SPEAKER_03 (09:17):
Now I was in martial arts for a while.
SPEAKER_02 (09:19):
I know.
So reading this study was aproblem for me, Jason, because
you definitely got hit in thehead quite a few times.
SPEAKER_03 (09:27):
I did.
Yeah.
Not hard though.
Like, not enough.
I never I got hit once reallyhard in a tournament, actually.
But like when we were sparring,we had headgear on, and I we had
I always wore a mouth guard, andwe never hit each other at a
hundred percent.
Like we weren't trying to knockeach other out at all.
It was more like heavy tag, ifthat makes sense.
(09:51):
So if you got kicked or punchedin the head, you knew you got
hit, but it never really hurt.
I don't know if that I don'tknow if that helps.
SPEAKER_02 (09:59):
No, it doesn't because you definitely sparred
against Gavin, who is a largemammal.
SPEAKER_03 (10:06):
He's a huge dude, very strong guy, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (10:08):
And very strong.
SPEAKER_03 (10:09):
Definitely had to work on my defense for sure.
If I was paired with that guy,he made me better.
Yeah, and yeah, in thetournament, the ref called stop,
and the guy just decked me.
Anybody going into martial arts,you always gotta defend
yourself.
I was not expecting that.
I got drilled pretty hard and myjaw locked up for a second.
Uh, I don't think I ever toldyou that.
(10:31):
But I was like, oh my god, myjaw's broken.
But it loosened up after a bit.
And I won the match.
So there you go.
SPEAKER_02 (10:39):
There you go, but not really.
SPEAKER_03 (10:41):
Yeah.
Okay.
That's science news for thisweek.
This week in Pet Science, let'stalk about golden retrievers,
Chris.
SPEAKER_02 (10:49):
I know.
We actually have a goldenretriever.
Her name is Beaker.
Oh, she's a control.
I know.
And so every time I see thingsabout golden retrievers or
Bernice Mountain Dogs, oractually really any dog or cat,
my ears perk up for sure.
SPEAKER_03 (11:04):
Your our niece and nephew were over.
I guess there's actually likeour great niece and nephew, Rafi
and Ellie.
And Beaker is always so gentle.
Like she just sits proudly andthey pet her.
Whereas Bernoulli gets a littlewild.
He likes to run around and whatdid Bruno, what did Rafi say?
Bernoulli knocked him over likea Bammittin or something.
(11:25):
He was playing Bammitton withhim.
Something.
SPEAKER_02 (11:28):
Yeah.
And then he was like, Bunsen issuch a good boy, and Beaker is
such a good girl, and Bernoulliis crazy.
SPEAKER_03 (11:37):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (11:38):
Bernoulli's a lot.
SPEAKER_03 (11:39):
But he but he's young, and Rafi was running
around screaming.
So that just that nothing Iwatched the TikTok guy and he
was talking about there isnothing dogs love more than to
be riled up.
You're not supposed to rile updogs, but some dogs just love to
get riled up.
And Bernoulli, it is hisfavorite thing to get riled up.
(12:00):
He just loves it.
SPEAKER_02 (12:01):
I was very proud of Bernoulli, though, because in
the past in the past, he getsthe humping sensation, and he
did not at all with Rafi thistime.
So that was a win.
SPEAKER_03 (12:14):
Let's head back to golden retrievers because that's
what the study's about.
Researchers have discovered thatgenes influencing golden
retriever behavior.
So this includes some of thebreed-specific things we've
talked about before, theirability to be trained, golden
retrievers are relatively easyto train.
They're not really fearful ofstrangers, they have lots of
energy and low aggression.
(12:35):
Those traits that goldenretrievers have are influenced
by genes, may also influencehuman personality and mental
health.
So this provides perhapsevidence that golden and humans
share genetic roots foremotional and behavioral traits.
Ah, that's so cute.
SPEAKER_02 (12:56):
It is so cute.
If I could just be like Beaker,um, I'm sure the world would
love me.
SPEAKER_03 (13:03):
But the study also loves people.
She loves.
SPEAKER_02 (13:06):
She loves people.
She loves people with a force ofa thousand hurricanes.
She just loves them.
SPEAKER_03 (13:10):
On her last nerve, though, Chris.
You gotta watch out for that.
SPEAKER_02 (13:13):
I've seen that happen.
I've seen that happen.
And I've seen her protectiveside of bricks when Bernoulli
is, I think I'm gonna go seeBricks over there.
And she's like, No, you're not,Bark.
Um, but this study offers also adeeper understanding of maybe
why individual dogs vary sowidely in fearfulness, uh,
energy aggression, andtrainability, those traits that
(13:33):
you are looking at.
SPEAKER_03 (13:35):
This study comes from the University of
Cambridge, and it was publishedin the proceedings of the
National Academy of Sciences.
Good get, Chris.
That's from a good journal.
We've used this one before.
And it's the first study to showdirect overlap between genes
linked to canine behavior andgenes associated with human
emotional traits.
The three they looked at wereanxiety, depression, and
(13:56):
intelligence.
And they based it on theanalysis of over a thousand
golden retrievers genetic dataand compared it to a huge
detailed behavioralquestionnaire completed by
owners.
SPEAKER_02 (14:08):
So, in terms of the genetic findings, the
researchers identified genesconnected to specifically
trainability, energy levels,fear of strangers, and
aggression towards other dogs.
And they cross-referenced thiswith human genetic studies.
They found that 12 dog geneswere found to influence human
(14:30):
behavior and emotionalregulation as well.
One of the genes that they foundwas the PTPN1 gene.
And in dogs, that gene isassociated with aggression
towards other dogs.
Whereas in humans, that gene isassociated with intelligence and
depression.
SPEAKER_03 (14:52):
You have to be really smart but sad all the
time.
SPEAKER_02 (14:55):
Yeah, exactly.
Another gene variation found infearful golden retrievers linked
to fear of other dogs.
But in humans, it associated itwith dwelling on embarrassment
and high educationalachievement.
SPEAKER_03 (15:10):
Weird.
SPEAKER_02 (15:11):
It is weird, but it does have implications for
training behavior and care ofyour animals.
So the findings revealed thatsome dogs are genetically
predisposed to stress oremotional sensitivity.
And sometimes theirquote-unquote bad behavior may
sometimes reflect geneticallydriven distress, not
(15:33):
disobedience.
So, as you and I have alwayssaid, all dogs are good dogs,
but sometimes you see badbehavior or behavior that's poor
choice, and maybe they can'thelp it.
Maybe it's just that reflectionof their genetics.
So, knowing that owners canbetter tailor their training,
their routines, and their careby recognizing genetically
(15:57):
influenced emotional tendenciesin their dog.
And I always say that, like withour dogs, I we watch them very
carefully when they're happy,healthy, but then also when
they're not happy and unhealthy,noticing that and trying to
catch things as they come.
And lastly, behavioral traitslike fearfulness may respond
well to treatments used forhuman conditions, like using
(16:20):
anti-anxiety meds whenappropriate.
But for that, make sure youreach out to your vet person,
your vet.
SPEAKER_03 (16:29):
Yeah, don't listen to our advice on the podcast.
We're just we're just breakingdown the science.
Another gene, R-O-M-O-1, waslinked to trainability in golden
retrievers.
And ironically, in humans, thisgene was tried tied the and
ironically in humans, this geneis tied to intelligence and
emotional sensitivity.
(16:49):
This may suggest that dogtraining isn't only mechanical.
Emotional regulation genes mayaffect how well a dog learns.
So training should thereforeconsider emotional support, not
just giving them a treat basedon their behavior and how you
want to shape it.
SPEAKER_02 (17:06):
That's right.
When we have gone through dogtraining, we've been encouraged
to make training fun, maketraining exciting, change up
your voice, all those things tomake the dog respond more on a
potentially an emotional level,as opposed to just doing the
thing because we want them to dothe thing.
Now we're very fortunate thatour dogs are food motivated, so
(17:29):
they love to do the thing.
They say, Hi, my name isBernoulli.
I work for treats.
He does work for treats.
He works for treats, but he alsoworks for that high praise and
that love.
Like he, of all of our dogs, isresponds very highly to that
positive reinforcement.
SPEAKER_03 (17:51):
Yeah, he just wants to make you proud.
He just like beams when he getsit.
It's really cute.
Just a heads up, the study didmention that these genes do not
produce specific behaviors.
If you have a gene forfearfulness, your the dog will
be aggressive.
Instead, they just influenceoverall states of emotion, their
(18:11):
sensitivity to stress, and theirbehavior regulation.
They may have some of thesegenes that code for these
influences, but the dog may notshow them.
They may have a steady emotionalstate despite them being gene
coded to not.
Dogs with non-social fear, solike they're scared of things
like vacuum cleaners or buses,they present uh they possess a
(18:31):
gene that in humans contributesto irritability and anxiety,
similar to humans being anxiousor sensitive about stuff.
Pets don't just share our homes,they also share our
psychological challenges of themodern environment.
Oh man, we were at Costco today.
Costco stresses me out.
That's too many people gettingbananas and stuff in the same
(18:55):
area.
SPEAKER_02 (18:56):
It was a lot today.
Boy oh boy.
There was a lot of people inthere.
SPEAKER_03 (19:02):
If I felt like barking at people, and if I was
a dog, I'd be like, what is thisplace?
That is not a normal place.
That is a modern environmentthat we were never genetically
selected to deal with.
We just have to deal with it.
SPEAKER_02 (19:17):
I love Costco.
SPEAKER_03 (19:20):
If you're wondering where the if you're wondering
where the genes for these dogsand how they were analyzed came
from, that comes from the GoldenRetriever Lifetime Study that's
tracked thousands of dogs since2012.
And then they have also had aquestionnaire for a bunch of
people in the study.
They analyzed blood samples fromthe dogs and searched their
(19:42):
entire genome for the geneticmarkers associated with each
behavioral category.
So just as an aside, there, theydid actually look at the genes
of the golden retrievers, whichis cool.
SPEAKER_02 (19:54):
That is so cool.
SPEAKER_03 (19:56):
We maybe should cut Beaker some slack.
Maybe she has some of thosegenes that were identified in
this study.
Maybe.
All right.
That's pet science for thisweek.
It's time for Ask an Expert onthe Science podcast.
And I'm thrilled to welcome JohnRyder, the chief bubble dude of
Techno Bubbles.
John, how are you doing today?
SPEAKER_00 (20:15):
Jason, I'm doing wonderful.
Glad to glad to be with you andyour listeners this evening,
man.
It's awesome.
SPEAKER_03 (20:22):
I'm very excited to talk to you about bubbles.
They're whimsical.
And just as an aside to maybegive you an idea why I'm excited
to talk about it, is I presentat teachers' conventions and I
present on the science ofbubbles.
That's one of my things that Ido with my students.
So I'm all in on the bubbles.
I understand how whimsical theyare.
(20:43):
I used to do about fiveexperiment experiments when I
would show this to teachers, andwe never got through the bubble
one.
They just became little kids andwanted to play with the bubbles
all day long.
So yeah, magic stuff.
SPEAKER_00 (20:56):
Yeah, isn't that amazing how that little soapy
sphere can transport even uheven a grown person back to
their childhood and just makethem smile and just uh bring
back all those awesome memoriesof playing with bubbles as a
kid, huh?
SPEAKER_03 (21:09):
Yeah, no matter how deep we push it, the child in us
wants out all the time.
So yeah, that's very true.
SPEAKER_00 (21:15):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (21:16):
Where are you in the world, though?
I always ask our guests whereare you calling into the show
from?
SPEAKER_00 (21:20):
You know what?
I am right in the middle, St.
Louis, Missouri.
We're almost smack dab, right inthe middle of the United States.
Uh great part of the country.
We love it here.
SPEAKER_03 (21:30):
I'll have to get down there one of these days.
Just you'll laugh.
I arrived with a little bit oftime to spare for this interview
because it's blizzarding rightnow for us.
So much snow is coming down.
I don't imagine it's the sameweather for you in Missouri.
SPEAKER_00 (21:44):
Oh my God.
I think we had 74 degrees.
It's definitely not the sameweather.
Keep it there if you would,Jason.
SPEAKER_03 (21:52):
Oh, yeah.
I can't wait for the snow.
I'm one of the Canadians thatjust loves the winter.
Yeah, we'll keep I'll keep it uphere for you.
Great.
Um, and before we talk about thewhole bubble thing, right?
Was that like I don't want topresume anything that you
weren't doing bubble stuff yourwhole life, but just out of
curiosity, what have you been,what were you up to before this
(22:13):
the bubble venture?
SPEAKER_00 (22:14):
I was always this curious kid.
I was always someone that when aservice man came to the house to
like work on the stove or thefurnace or the air conditioning
man, I was I was his shadow.
So I was always this mechanicalkid and always loved working
with things in my hands.
Things I've done in my life,I've been a I've been a
professional chef.
We've I my education, myschooling is in aircraft
(22:37):
engineering.
I worked at Donald Douglas onthe F-15 fighter jet for about
five years.
And then we we played aroundwith high-tech electronics for
about 20 years, too, doingeverything from home automation
and security and home theaterwhen that big craze was going on
back in the late 80s, early 90swhen all that launched.
We were doing high-techelectronics, and really bubbles
(22:58):
were nowhere in my future,really, or in my life, really.
SPEAKER_03 (23:02):
Oh that's that what a cool, varied career to get to
this point.
I don't think I've talked to aguest yet that has worked on the
fighter jet.
So that's very interesting.
SPEAKER_00 (23:12):
Jason, all the all the money my dad spent on
college education and stuff,he's no longer with us, but I
always look up to the heavensand say, Dad, at least bubbles
are still aerodynamic.
I think the tuition money didn'tgo all the waste.
SPEAKER_03 (23:26):
So that's sweet.
Yeah, that's a good way to tieit back.
Yeah.
All right.
So here's the people are like abubble guy, chief bubble guy,
chief bubble dude.
CBD, right?
You called yourself.
That's that's cool.
What are these atomic bubbles?
What are they?
And what's the story for howthey came about?
SPEAKER_00 (23:44):
Yeah, atomic bubbles is a culmination of about 20
years, 20 plus years of usplaying with soap water.
I met a guy and met a productsome 20 plus years ago called
Techno Bubbles.
It was a guy who had inventedglowing blacklight bubbles.
So he had made bubbles thatglowed under blacklight, Jason.
And they and they were amazing.
(24:05):
I saw videos of them and stuff,so I ordered some.
And by golly, they were exactlyas as advertised.
These these were glowing orbswhen you put them under
blacklight.
That started my whole interestin bubbles, this wacky uh side
of bubbles.
Over time, we we bought this guyout, we bought his patents,
trademark marks, and recipes,and then we became the face of
(24:26):
this glowing blacklight bubblecalled Techno Bubbles.
And over the years, we we wereadvertising those bubbles,
trying to market them and stuff.
And the haunted house industrywas a huge early.
Oh, cool, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
They can use them as like toxicwaste gas, radioactive fumes,
and we rode that way for awhile.
(24:46):
We still technobubbles is stilla great product, and Halloween,
all my haunted houses still comearound and buy them.
But then we got into the eventbusiness, and we have a business
called Bubble Bus.
I think you mentioned thatearly, Bubble Bus.
And it's an event business wherewe go around and peace, love,
and bubbles is our mantra wherewe go around and do events.
And then around pandemic, we gotinto the line of pet bubbles,
(25:10):
pretty love bubbles.
So we fine-tuned our craftingand dove into the pet industry
with our with our bubbleformulations.
SPEAKER_03 (25:16):
And so that leads you smacking our crosshairs
because our podcast is all aboutscience and pets, right?
I was intrigued when I believeit was your agent contacted us
about that.
I was like, oh, cool.
Um, and they are like thebubbles are made for both cat
and dogs, right?
There's cat bubbles and dogbubbles.
Did I get that correct?
SPEAKER_00 (25:36):
Yes, that is correct.
Yeah.
So we use uh kind of the sameholy grail base recipe that took
us like 60 formulations to find,and then we sent them and craft
them for dogs and cats.
So for instance, we have bacon,peanut butter, birthday cake,
pumpkin, apple pie, lavender,and then we're doing a
(25:57):
gingerbread scented bubble forfor the Christmas season for our
for our pups.
And then for our kitties, we'vegot catnip infused, which is
really our one of ourbest-selling products.
And then we just got into somecalming bubbles with some
scientifically developedpheromones that actually do slow
the heart rate of a cat andrelieve stress and anxiety.
SPEAKER_03 (26:18):
Awesome.
Perfect.
Now, I know you can't give awayyour trademark for how the
bubbles are made exactly, butI'm sure like our audience would
love to know what is some of thescience that goes into making
these bubbles, both maybe howthey're made, so they I assume
they don't pop as readily as theaverage bubble, and you infuse
(26:39):
them with these differentsmells.
If you could tell us anythingabout that, that'd be
fascinating.
SPEAKER_00 (26:43):
Yeah, absolutely.
When you go to work on a bubblefirst, there's all these weird
things that, like, if you'remaking a bubble and you want to
make it your livelihood, youhave to make a really good
bubble.
So, some of the things is youmentioned it has to be
resilient, it has to last a longtime, it has to be colorful, and
and it has to be safe.
Those are the three criteriathat that we strive for quality,
(27:06):
fun, and above all, safety.
So, yeah, so what we've done iswe've crafted these bubbles by
by going in and usinghuman-grade raw materials.
A lot of them are sourced fromthe cosmetic industry, so it's
all cosmetic grade safe.
So, again, like shampoos andstuff, so if you get it in your
eyes, you know, it's not gonnahurt or tear.
Although my bubbles aren't meantto be ingested, you can get them
(27:28):
in your system with the with noill effect.
So, in case a dog or cat getsgets them in their mouth or
whatnot.
And then the real kind of nuanceto it is trying to find sense
that dogs and cats are going toperk their heads up to.
SPEAKER_03 (27:42):
So that was my question.
Sorry, I had to jump in here.
I did peruse your website, andthat I was like, one, how did
you pick them?
Yeah, and maybe you're gonnaexplain this anyways, and I
apologize.
And two, how did you get thescent in the bubble?
If you I'm obviously you can'ttell us exactly, I understand
that.
SPEAKER_00 (27:59):
Yeah, yeah.
For dogs and peanut butter werelike no-brainers, okay.
So when you're going after a dogbubble, it's like they love
bacon and they love peanutbutter, okay?
So those were like those werethe first two bubbles we created
for puppy love.
Um in in the cat world, catnipwas was was a no-brainer as
(28:19):
well.
And we source our we put realmother nature in our catnip
bubbles.
That is real essential oil thatactually is a Canadian oil uh
that comes out of so we're uhsupporting the Canadian economy
some by uh by sourcing our uhcatnip from from you all, which
is wonderful.
SPEAKER_03 (28:35):
And is it the tree is it the catnip plant or like
another cat attracting plantthat works like catnip?
SPEAKER_00 (28:42):
No, it's actually the catnip plant that they uh
yeah, that they steam distill orcold press or however they get
it out, but it's yeah, and boy,I tell you what, it is potent,
Jason.
When we are making catnipbubbles here, boy, I tell you
what, a few drops goes a longway.
That is some powerful stuff,brother.
SPEAKER_03 (29:00):
It grows wild in parts of Canada too.
That's something that we alwaystell people.
My gosh.
Yeah, it does, just grows wild.
There's a other honeysuckle isanother wood that grows wild
some places in Canada, andthat's another one of those.
Anyway, sorry, go ahead.
SPEAKER_00 (29:14):
You have amazing catnip, and it's the and it's
the one we've settled on, andit's really put us on the map.
How we put them in is we infusethem into the bubbles, we mix
them just like I said earlier,or when you asked me what you
know what I did.
I think I did some cooking in myearly days.
So, really being a productionchemist, as you know from your
chemistry background, it's allabout measuring and making sure
(29:35):
and just letting yourimagination go.
As long as the science iscorrect, you can get very
creative in your brain.
So, really, what we have to dois we have to find fragrances
and essential oils and the rightratios of percentages to mix so
that quality of our bubble stillstays high.
A lot of our fragrances are manmade, so they're synthetic.
So, like our peanut butterfragrance smells very authentic,
(29:58):
but it was man made, so no.
Fear of peanut allergies.
SPEAKER_03 (30:02):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (30:03):
Yeah.
Yep.
And in our lavender calmingbubble for puppies, too, that is
real lavender essential oil.
And it has the same calmingattributes in animals as it does
in humans.
And it's finding that rightratio.
Not too much, not too little.
You have to worry about shelflife too.
You have to put enough inbecause that little bit of soap,
that cosmetic grade soap that weput in to make them bubbles,
(30:25):
starts deteriorating thosefragrances over time.
So it's we tout about a two-yearshelf life on our bubbles for
fragrance.
So after about that, they theythe bubbles still blow, but the
fragrance starts going away.
SPEAKER_03 (30:35):
Yeah.
That is that's interesting.
And I totally get probably usingsome kind of ester for your
peanut butter smell because youpeople won't have the same kind
of or at all the anaphylacticreaction to that.
SPEAKER_00 (30:48):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Early on, the first we weregetting a lot of pushback on
that peanut butter, but althoughpeople liked it and their pets
loved it, we very quickly had toput allergen-free and advertise
that because people reallythought it's man, this smells so
authentic.
It's but I can't use it becauseI have a peanut allergy or my
kiddos have peanut allergies orsomething like that.
So yeah, it's again, it goesback to that safety.
(31:09):
We want to make sure that whenpeople are people and pets are
using our bubbles, that they'rejust as safe as they can be, and
then just having as much fun asthey can have with our bubble
products.
SPEAKER_03 (31:19):
So would that mean your bacon one is quote unquote
vegetarian as the smell is notfrom actual meat?
Or am I getting that one?
SPEAKER_00 (31:26):
No, you're absolutely correct.
It is, it's a it's a synthetic,it's a man-made fragrance that's
water soluble, so it stays uhstays emulsified in the bubbles.
Uh but yes, it is there is nomeat product or any part of any
animal that's used during theproduction uh of any of our
products.
SPEAKER_03 (31:44):
I think you answered another question that I had just
from listening to you talk, andhumans can smell the smells,
right?
Like they're strong enough forus to smell.
SPEAKER_00 (31:54):
Absolutely, yeah.
So there's that dance that youhave to do because you don't
want to make it so overpoweringthat it is not pleasant to the
human who's blowing them.
Because dogs and cats, dogs andcats, their their noses are on
steroids, man.
You know, they can so yeah, sowe want to put enough in.
Mr.
Smith, when he buys our bubble,says, Oh wow, yeah, these are
(32:14):
peanut bubbles, but they'reprobably pretty supercharged to
the, you know, I mean to the dogbecause they could probably
smell them a mile away.
SPEAKER_03 (32:20):
Nice.
Yeah, cool, cool.
Yeah.
I was just, I'm glad you saidthat if you got them in your
body, like they're safe becauseit some of them do sound
delicious.
And I can imagine the odd humanblowing the bubbles and not
having supper yet and just belike, one for the dog, one for
me.
SPEAKER_00 (32:37):
Right.
Now there is there's anothercompany out there that makes
what they call a an ediblebubble or a bubble that they put
flavorings in.
And we chose not to go thatroute because we wanted to
entice the animals to play, butwe did not want them in case a
bottle of bubbles spilt over orsomething, we did not want to
encourage them to like lap, liketo drink this down.
(33:00):
Um, so yeah, so we took a wholedifferent avenue, and uh, people
and our customers are justthrilled with it.
SPEAKER_03 (33:08):
This is so fun.
I just I so appreciate thisconversation.
Whimsical and fun, and we've gotsome science mixed in.
So here, I don't know if you'veever done any quote unquote
scientific tests with them tosee if there's a flavor dogs
more.
If you ever got a uh a sample of10 dogs and blew some bubble
smells, is there one thatoutperforms, or is that
(33:31):
something maybe folks at homecan try?
SPEAKER_00 (33:34):
You know what?
Yes and yes.
So when we first started doingthis, again, we knew that bacon
and peanut butter were gonna beprobably uh great ones to start
with, catnip as well.
Um, we had a local doggy daycareboarding franchise system that's
here in in town, and they werewonderful.
We gave them like a dozen cents,and we gave them banana, we gave
(33:57):
them apple, we gave thempineapple, we gave them sweet
potato, like we gave them atleast 50 cents.
Yeah, you don't know.
And I tell you what, I was soamazed.
They actually did a spreadsheet,man.
They would blow the differentbubbles of dogs.
So they gave us some reallygreat feedback on on what the
dog seemed to be responding to.
(34:18):
I don't know if we have foundlike a certain breed or a
certain type of dog, you know,might like peanut butter versus
bacon or who likes pumpkinversus apple pie.
I think they're pets are a lotlike humans.
We all have our own tastes andour own things we like.
What we do know is that bubblesseem to be innately amazed with
(34:39):
bubbles in general, and when youcan scent them to entice them to
go that extra mile to getinvolved with them, boy,
wonderful things can happen.
SPEAKER_03 (34:52):
That's so fun.
What I can just imagine the dayyou you you pitched it to this
place and they were just blowingbubbles at the dogs and
scratching down notes.
That is the most fun kind ofscience I can think of because
I've done other science and itis not it's grudgery sometimes.
SPEAKER_00 (35:10):
Yeah, we have this little Willy Wonka factory here,
Jason.
On the other side of the wallhere, we were just uh banging
out bottles we call it whenwe're filling our bottles,
putting wands in them andlabeling them and sending them
up.
Actually, pet value up in Canadahas become a very good
distributor for us.
Oh, yeah.
We I know that place, you bet.
Yeah, and we actually just shipsome out to them uh today.
(35:33):
And uh, but yeah, it's it's justamazing, man.
When you can go go to work andyou really enjoy what you do,
people ask me when I'm gonnaretire.
I don't know if I'll everretire.
I'm having so much fun.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (35:45):
If you have purpose in life and that purpose is fun,
man, that's a great combination.
SPEAKER_00 (35:50):
Yeah, you know what?
If you can find it, and I'm surethat in your work as well, being
able to work with the kids andyou're sharing that you you do
the chemistry with the kiddos,and uh man, it's and I had a I
had a college professor before Ieven thought I was going, and
this was during my aircraftengineering, it was a business
class, and we did this modelingthing where you had to create
your own business and createthese virtual products.
And he was the gentleman whoreally instilled that
(36:13):
entrepreneurialism in me.
Before that class, I never Inever even thought about being
my own boss, and so you justnever know in life sometimes,
like kids in your class, you mayspark that that one thing with
chemistry.
I'm not a chemist, but I knowhow to cook.
SPEAKER_03 (36:28):
Yeah.
There's a lot of similarities,I'll tell you that, between the
two.
SPEAKER_00 (36:33):
Yeah, you know what?
There are a lot of similarities,and uh, but again, it's just
staying staying interested, andI still have a lot more work to
do.
There's all kinds of things onthe radar, and I think I've just
scratched the surface of what wewant to do with with atomic
bubbles and uh pet industry andthat sort of thing.
SPEAKER_03 (36:50):
Awesome.
Now, I just saw a coupletechnical things about these
bubbles.
Like we have uh bubble guns,like you pour it in, you press
the trigger, and it shoots itout kind of thing.
And we have bubble machines.
Are these safe for those type ofthings, or would they or would
they gum them up a bit?
SPEAKER_00 (37:08):
That's a great question.
And the cool thing about ourbubble formulas is they were
originally because before we gotinto the pet business, we were
doing those glow bubbles, and wehad to make those formulations
for high-speed bubble machinesand guns.
Our products will work inanything that blows bubbles for
sure.
They will not gum them up, theywill work beautiful, and yeah,
(37:29):
so that's that's what reallyputs us on the map.
Some of the alpha yeah, thingsthat we put in our bubbles to
just make them strong so thatthey can be blown out of the
machine very effectively.
SPEAKER_03 (37:40):
Nice.
And what do are they stored atroom temperature?
Do you store them in the fridge?
Yeah.
In where I live, if you leavethem stuff in the garage, it's
gonna freeze over the winter.
Just some technical thingsthere, if you don't mind
answering.
SPEAKER_00 (37:54):
Sure, as a lot of products, if you can keep them
from freezing, it's usuallybetter.
My bubbles can be frozen everyonce in a while.
They get frozen on a trip goingsomewhere in the wintertime when
they're being delivered, butthey will work.
It's best to keep them ambienttemperature and out of direct
sunlight if at all possible,just kind of ambient
temperatures.
(38:15):
Although my warehouses here inSt.
Louis get to be over 100 degreesin the wintertime, and that's
where we will store our stocksbefore we ship them out.
So yeah, they're uh they'repretty rugged, they really are.
So you can yeah, you can do justabout everything to them, but
just yeah, that freezingsometimes makes them a little
wonky.
SPEAKER_03 (38:31):
Cool, cool.
I'm intrigued about the lavenderbubbles.
You just mentioned that they'relike they're calming ones.
That for me personally, I lovethe smell of lavender.
That seems like something youcould blow just for humans to
have some kind of relaxationtoo, not just the pets.
SPEAKER_00 (38:49):
Yeah, you know what?
We we are branching into thehealth and wellness side of
this.
If if you could think health andwellness with in the form of a
bubble, but if the bubble isreally when it's evaporating, it
becomes almost like a floatingdiffuser, right?
That orbit is floating aroundand it's losing life because uh
Mother Nature is sucking themoisture out of it.
(39:10):
But yeah, the lavender bubblesare wonderful, and that kind of
gets into that health andwellness for the calming effect,
and that's why we found agentleman who's this great
scientist.
You'd love this guy.
He uh in the 70s, he was one ofthe first guys to get into the
flea and tick collar science.
And so he has invented thesepheromones, which is a man-made
(39:32):
thing, and we infuse those intoour bubbles, and it uh mimics
the maternal smells like of afemale dog and cat.
So that's what kind of makes theyoung cats or cats that are
stressed out and nervous, uh uhcalm because hey, they think
mom, man, I think mom, mom isthere, and that's very calming
to them.
So that's what these uhpheromone bubbles are all about,
(39:54):
and uh, we want to do some somemore things in that health and
wellness and get more into yourworld, a little more scientific,
it's be see where we can pushthe envelope in a crazy way with
bubbles.
That's that's what we're gonnabe working on for the years to
come.
SPEAKER_03 (40:08):
Nice.
And maybe as we just get toclose to the wrap-up of the
bubble talk here, do you haveany sneaky things you can tell
us you're that are on thehorizon beyond these getting
into the health and wellness?
Are there any new pet productsthat you're coming up with?
SPEAKER_00 (40:23):
We are going to be launching some new, I'm gonna
I'm gonna keep it under wraps alittle bit, but they're gonna
be.
I understand.
SPEAKER_03 (40:28):
Yeah, I get that.
SPEAKER_00 (40:29):
Yeah, but but they're gonna be enhancements to
our bubble product.
So it's going to be a bottle ofbubbles and then a bottle of
this new mystery product thatwe'll be launching in the first
quarter of 2026.
But we're super excited aboutit.
We think it's gonna bewonderful.
I think we'll be the only bubblecompany that's doing anything
(40:50):
like this.
So I would encourage your Iwould encourage your listeners
to keep an eye on atomic bubblesout there and puppy love and
kitty love bubbles because we'regonna be doing some some really
cool things in the first quarterof next year.
So your website to get thebubbles is atomicbubbles.com is
where your folks can go and seewhat we're doing with all of
these crazy bubbles.
(41:11):
We do human and pet bubbles.
Everything we uh we do is onthat, is on that site, Jason.
SPEAKER_03 (41:16):
Nice.
So, folks, we'll have a link tothis in our show notes.
Our normal show notes,everybody, you we have links
there.
Just click you can click toatomic bubbles within the show
notes.
This is fun talking aboutbubbles.
I appreciate you sharing alittle bit about the business.
We do have a standard questionwe ask all our guests about,
though, near the end, and that'sfor a pet story from their life.
(41:38):
A lot of our guests arescientists or science adjacent,
and what humanizes everybody isour love of pets.
And I was wondering if you couldshare a pet story with us.
SPEAKER_00 (41:48):
Sure.
Growing up, we had a Shetlandcollie dog, and for the longest
time, my mom and dad did notwant a dog.
Our neighbors had a litter andthey had these awesome pups.
And so we got a one, and hisname was Romeo.
And Romeo in the early days, Ithink that's when I really uh
(42:09):
found that relationship betweenman and dog.
Because when you're a kid, whenyou've had a bad day, maybe when
you lost a baseball game or yougot bullied at school, or you're
in trouble with mom and dad, Irealized that this furry,
four-legged being didn't reallycare about any of that.
He was always there, man, readyfor that nuzzle, ready to go
play fetch.
(42:29):
I think one of my fondestmemories is just uh having that
having that extra companionsometimes when I was a kid and
when I needed it.
And yeah, I have a lot of fondmemories about Romeo.
He was a great dog, and I thinkthat's what uh gave me the love
of animals back in grade or so.
SPEAKER_03 (42:44):
Ah, love it.
Do you have any current petstoday?
SPEAKER_00 (42:48):
You know what we do?
We have two we have a standardpoodle and a poodle doodle.
So Violet is is our doodle, anduh, she's awesome.
She's this big old furry ballthat's wonderful and she'll lick
you to death.
And yeah, and Gloria is a littlemore streamlined, so she's the
(43:09):
standard poodle.
And uh the interesting thingabout Gloria is she had to slip
on a stair on her staircase whenwe were we had her for maybe a
month or two, and she broke herleg, and unfortunately, that leg
had to be amputated.
Gloria is our three-wheeled dog,and unless I tell so many times
I will just say, Oh, yeah,that's uh violet and glow.
(43:31):
You can tell Gloria because shehas three legs, and they look
down, it's like, oh my god,she's got three.
Nobody even knows she getsaround so well.
It's amazing how she's adapted.
So we have those two two furryfur balls, and uh yeah, they're
uh they're wonderful, they'rewonderful.
SPEAKER_03 (43:45):
Yeah, dogs teach us a lesson about just getting on
with it.
They're resilient creatures,they do, man.
SPEAKER_00 (43:52):
I tell you what, uh, I think every day is a man,
she's been hopping around onthree and just been like that's
all she ever had was three legs,man, and she just gets it every
day.
So it's what's cool, super cool.
SPEAKER_03 (44:02):
Thanks for sharing your pet stories, John.
You got it, man.
You got it.
So we're at the end of the show.
Aside from atomic bubbles, canare you on social media
anywhere, or should we justdirect people to atomic bubbles?
SPEAKER_00 (44:15):
You know what?
You can go to atomic bubbles.
There's an info, info at atomicbubbles.
I atomic bubbles.
We do have a Instagram um and aFacebook.
I if you don't have them there,I can have Dana send those to
you in the morning, okay?
SPEAKER_03 (44:31):
I got them right here.
Awesome.
John, I just want to thank youfor giving up your time to talk
to us.
This was a very whimsical chat,very different than some of the
interviews we've had, and I justso appreciate it.
There's there's always room forjoy in today's world, and that's
what this has all been about.
So thank you.
SPEAKER_00 (44:50):
Thank you so much, and again, thanks, thanks for
having me on.
And to all your listeners, Ireally appreciate the
opportunity.
SPEAKER_03 (44:56):
That's it for this week's show.
Thanks for coming back weekafter week to listen to the
science podcast, and a shout outto all the top dogs.
That's the top tier of ourPatreon community, the Pop Pack.
You can sign up in our shownotes.
All right, Chris, let's hearthose names that are part of the
top dogs.
SPEAKER_02 (45:13):
Amelia Fetting, Re Oda, Carol Hanel, Jennifer
Challenge, Linnea Janet, KarenCronister, Vicky Oteiro, Christy
Walker, Sarah Brown, Wendy,Diane, Mason and Luke, Helen
Chin, Elizabeth Bourgeois,Marianne McNally, Katherine
Jordan, Shelly Smith, LauraStephenson, Tracy Leinbach, Anne
(45:36):
Uchida, Heather Burbach, Kelly,Tracy Halbert, Ben Rather,
Debbie Anderson, Sandy Brimer,Mary Rader, Bianca Hyde, Andrew
Lynn, Brenda Clark, BrianneHawes, Peggy McKeel, Holly
Birch, Kathy Zirker, SusanWagner, and Liz Button.
SPEAKER_03 (45:54):
For science, empathy, and cuteness.
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