Ever wondered why more girls than boys report symptoms of teenage depression? Could societal norms be pressuring boys into silence? We're hashing out this pressing issue and more in our latest episode.
We also take a detour into the cat brain and the ongoing debate over feline versus canine intelligence.
Our expert guest Dr. Carly York has so much to share!
There was a frog tub. That's how Dr. York jumped into the world of animal behavior.
From frogs, we will gallop our way to horses and slide effortlessly into the world of squids. Yes, squids! We'll exchange stories about these intriguing undersea creatures with Dr. York. Ever been keen on knowing more about the African clawed frogs, or the looming threat presented by the Kitchred fungus to amphibians worldwide? Stay tuned.
We also take you on a fascinating journey through the world's largest zoo, the North Carolina Zoo, with Dr. York as our guide. She unveils the behavioral nuances of chimpanzees and elephants and shares truly captivating stories about their interactions and antics. Wrapping up with a viral horse moment and a deep dive into the awe-inspiring abilities of squids and octopuses, this episode is a roller-coaster ride into the world of animal behavior and psychology. No time for yawns, only wonder, and a whole lot of laughter in store. Don't miss out!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Hello science enthusiasts.
My name is Jason Zikowski.
I'm a high school chemistryteacher and a science
communicator, but I'm also thedog dad of Bunsen and Beaker,
the science dogs on social media.
If you love science and youlove pets, you've come to the
right place.
Put on your lab coat, put onyour safety glasses and hold
onto your tail.
(00:28):
This is the Science Podcast.
Hello, welcome back to theScience Podcast.
I hope you're happy and healthyout there.
It's the summer, that's right.
We're on summer holidays.
It is glorious.
We're hopeful to have a verybusy July, as Chris and I have
been hard at work writing textsfrom Bunsen Volume 2.
(00:49):
That's been a big job, butreally excited to get out on the
rivers and into the mountainsfor some summertime rest and
relaxation.
Okay, what's on the SciencePodcast this week?
In science news, we're going totake a look at a study and
statistics on teenage depression, especially in boys.
And in pet science we're goingto look at the cat brain And our
(01:14):
guest and ask and expert is DrCarly York, who is going to
regale us with tales of animalbehavior and how her life
changed when somebody handed hera tub of frogs.
Okay, the bad joke.
Why are frogs just so happy allthe time.
Well, they always eat whateverbugs them.
(01:36):
Okay, i'm with the show becausethere's no time like science
time.
This week in Science News, let'stake a look at some information
that has come out aboutdepression in young men or
teenage boys.
Now the statistics and thestudy that I'm going to be
looking at comes from the YouthRisk Behavior Survey, which was
(01:57):
conducted by the CDC.
This is American data, but youcan probably extrapolate it
pretty evenly to Canada, andthis survey collected data from
17,000 students in 31 differentstates.
They asked a whole bunch ofmental health questions.
If you compare the girls to theboys, more girls felt
(02:17):
persistent feelings of sadnessor hopelessness, and that
includes depression.
Well, only one third of teenageboys reported those feelings.
That's still really high, andif you've been hearing the words
bantered around mental healthcrisis, it's higher than it's
ever been.
Experts aren't really able toput their finger on why it's up
(02:39):
so much.
There are ideas why teens sufferfrom more sadness than their
counterparts decades ago.
It ranges from ideas likecoming out of the pandemic,
being isolated, or big pictureideas like the impending climate
problems.
Now, what's interesting in thestudy is they compared how the
(03:00):
boys dealt with depression orexpressed depressive symptoms
differently than girls.
Now, not taking anything awayfrom girls, because they do face
very unique stressors in NorthAmerica and the world, really
like bullying on social media,sexual violence and sometimes
wherever, depending on where youare, like a pretty hostile
(03:21):
political climate to you being agirl.
But depression in the surveyfound that.
But in the survey it was foundthat depression manifested very
differently in boys.
Whereas girls internalized howthey were feeling, boys maybe
externalize them, but theydidn't really come out in the
form of sadness.
And in the study it appearedthat masculine norms, like
(03:45):
showing weakness, make it harderfor boys to admit that they're
depressive.
And this leads a lot of peoplewho look at this data to
conclude that depression isunderdiagnosed in young men.
If you look at the raw data,you're like boy.
More girls are suffering fromdepression than guys.
(04:05):
There could be a reason whythat is is they are more
comfortable admitting it ortheir symptoms fall more in line
with what depression symptomsmight be.
After looking at this data, abunch of psychologists crunched
the numbers and they're prettysure about 10% of males miss
(04:26):
their depression diagnosis bythrough these screening tools.
If we look at other countrieswhere there have been some
success with depression andsuicide rates.
An area of Sweden tried totackle depression by having very
targeted suicide preventionprograms And the decline of
suicide rates among girls wentway, way down, but among men it
(04:49):
remained unchanged.
So there may be a better way toscreen for depression in men
and it may take completelydifferent screening tools A
focus on suppressing youremotion.
Anger and aggression andrisk-taking behaviors are
associated with depression inmen.
If you ask somebody on a survey, especially if they're men and
(05:12):
they are having issues withexpressing emotions, they may
shy away from questions askingabout how sad you are, how
hopeless are you.
That man on the survey theyoung man on the survey may say
I'm not sad, i'm not hopeless.
Now, of course, some of thesesymptoms, like aggression or
(05:33):
risk-taking, may not be relatedto depression.
They could be related to manyother things, like ADHD.
It's a tough thing And I thinkwe need to start younger, with
boys saying that you know it'sokay to be vulnerable and
express your emotions.
In the past, the suck it upbuttercup had some success,
(05:57):
potentially, but it's notworking anymore.
This isn't just the CDC data.
This is data from all over theworld that when boys and young
men try to conform to masculinenorms of stoicism being very
stoic and not expressing youremotions.
That is directly linked to poormental health outcomes and a
(06:20):
reduction in health seekingbehavior.
The vast majority of suicide,sadly, are men and perhaps
completely different researchand screening tools are needed
to help with the mental healththat is very different than what
women may experience for younggirls.
That's science news for thisweek.
This week in Pet Science, let'stalk about the cat brain.
(06:42):
Cats and dogs The argumentabout who is smarter will rage
on forever.
Now it's been pretty muchconcluded that, quote unquote
dogs are smarter than cats.
Now, is that a fair statement?
What does the cat brain looklike?
(07:03):
Why would somebody concludethat a dog might be smarter than
a cat?
One of the things that reallyhurts cats, one of the things
that cats have going againstthem, is that cats really don't
help out society that we dogs do.
Dogs have a lot of good will.
Dogs get their paws dirty.
(07:23):
They are helping as therapyanimals, they are guide dogs,
they are seizure dogs, they'rebomb sniffing dogs.
They're military dogs.
They can jump out of anaircraft.
They can find somebody who'sbeen trapped under an avalanche.
So there's a whole bunch ofgood will capital that dogs have
spent, you know, in theirlobbying effort to convince
(07:46):
everybody that they're the bestAnd, to their credit, they've
done a pretty good job.
It is really hard to find a catthat may be used in the same
role as all of these other dogs.
I don't think a police catwould be very helpful in chasing
down perpetrators.
I'm not sure what a militarycat would do, and a seeing eye
(08:08):
cat?
I'm uncertain of how helpful itwould be.
Now, does this have to do withcats being dumb?
No, cats have smaller brainsthan humans and dogs, but
they're smaller creatures.
Remember, brain size doesn'talways determine intelligence.
There's something in a brain,how it folds and surface folding
and brain structure are waymore important than brain size.
(08:32):
I want to say a cow brain isprobably bigger than a dog brain
And I think we can probablyagree that a dog's a little bit
smarter than a cat And in manyrespects a cat brain is more
similar to a human brain than adog brain is similar to human
brain.
So let's take a look at thecerebral cortex in a cat brain.
A cerebral cortex is known asgray matter.
(08:53):
It's the outermost layer ofyour brain.
It's where all nerve cells andnerve tissue are.
It's got that wrinkledappearance.
From all of the groovingnessthat it's got It folds in on
itself.
This cerebral cortex is reallyimportant for problem solving,
learning, thinking, emotions andmemory.
(09:16):
I kind of feel like just listedoff intelligence, would you
agree?
Would you agree?
Okay, that's what the cerebralcortex is.
And guess what?
Cat's cerebral cortex is a lotlarger and more complicated and
complex compared to that of dogs.
Cats have probably stuff tocount them, but cats have twice
(09:36):
as many neurons in theircerebral cortex compared to dogs
.
Now, some other surprisingthings is that in the visual
areas of a cat brain, like theareas of their brain that codes
vision, they have way more nervecells in their brain than
humans and almost all othermammals on earth.
It's tough to test this, butthere are some studies that show
(09:57):
cats have longer lastingmemories than dogs.
So why is this a?
So if a cat brain maybeoutshines a dog brain, if a cat
brain has a strongerthinky-thinky cortex, what's the
deal with cats not reallyhelping themselves out by
(10:20):
looking very intelligent?
Well, there's a lot of goodevidence into two different
types of IQ.
There's intelligence IQ andthen there's social emotional IQ
.
Dogs are far superior to catsin social emotional intelligence
.
Cats can probably solve just ashard of cognition problems as
(10:44):
dogs, but the big problem thatthey have is they're not
motivated to do so.
They are.
They were not selected forobedience or different traits
like listening and learning.
Cats kind of like found a placethat was warm and had food, and
(11:04):
the more tame, more friendlycats more likely to be taken in
by the humans.
Compared to a dog, cats arereally impulsive and they have
virtually no patience, for whenthe going gets tough, a dog will
work at, you know, a toy or acong that's got a little bit of
(11:25):
food in it for a long time.
If you put peanut butter in acong for Bunsen and Beaker, they
are going to be happy as clamsfor a long time.
But when they do the samestudies and the same tests with
cats, cats just straight up giveup.
They just give up.
They just don't have the stickwitheness that dogs do.
(11:46):
Is it unfair, then, to crowndogs as being smarter than cats?
I don't know.
I think a better conclusion isthat dogs are just smarter at
the things that we want them todo, and we've selected them to
do the things that we want themto do.
Perhaps if some researchersomewhere spent like 1,000 years
(12:06):
selecting cats to I don't knowhelp out in airports sniffing
for bombs because cats have apretty good sense of smell
perhaps we could get some bombdetecting cats And I'm not
saying there's not a bombdetecting cat somewhere in the
world.
Somebody's probably gonna sendme an article about Wilbur the
(12:26):
bomb detecting cat, but it'spretty rare.
Do you have a smart cat?
Do you think your cat issmarter than it lets on?
Tell us about it.
That's Pet Science for thisweek.
Hey everybody, before we get tothe interview section, here's a
couple ways you can help thescience podcast out.
Number one if you're on anyplace that rates podcasts, give
(12:48):
us a great rating.
Tell your friends and share itwith people who love science and
pets, like teachers.
Number two think about signingup as a member of the Paw Pack.
It allows you to connect withpeople who love our show and
it's a way to keep the show free.
Number three check out ourmerch store.
We have the Bunsen Stuffie 2.0.
(13:09):
There's still some beakerstuffies left.
They're adorable as well Warm,cuddly clothes and adorable
drinkware.
The link is in the show notes.
Now on to the interview.
It's time for Ask an Expert onthe Science Podcast, and I have
Dr Carly York, who is an animalphysiologist, with me today.
(13:29):
Doc, how are you doing?
I'm good, i'm happy to be here.
Oh, i'm so excited you said yes, your training has kind of rate
up the science podcast, ali,being with animals, where are
you in the world?
Where are you calling into theshow from?
Speaker 3 (13:46):
I am close to Hickory , North Carolina, which is the
middle of nowhere, but it's likeWestern North Carolina.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Oh, you think you're in the middle of nowhere.
I'm in the middle of nowhere,alberta, canada, which is much,
much removed from the middle.
I mean you have to drivesomewhere to get to the middle
of nowhere.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
Yeah, fair enough.
All right, I am only like 15minutes from a Walmart, so There
you go there you go.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
Have you lived there your whole life or have you had
to move around for school, worklife?
Speaker 3 (14:15):
Oh yeah, no, not at all.
I moved here about six yearsago.
Before that I was in VirginiaBeach area finishing up my PhD
at Old Dominion University.
Before that I was working on mymaster's degree at Western
Kentucky University, and beforethat I did my bachelor's degree
(14:38):
actually in Burlington, northCarolina.
So I've kind of come fullcircle back around to North
Carolina, but I grew up inWashington DC, so this is very
foreign from home, still Gotcha.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Now my next question would be a little bit about your
science training, And youtalked about where your
education came from, but I waswondering if you could talk a
little bit about what youreducation was.
What's your training in science?
Speaker 3 (15:04):
Sure, i'm a physiologist and I've always
been a physiologist, but thathas looked very different at
different parts of my career.
So I used to ride horsescompetitively And when I went to
college I wanted to.
I studied exercise physiologybut I wanted to apply it to
(15:28):
horses.
Now when you study exercisephysiology at university, it's
focused on human anatomy andphysiology but I figured, yeah,
it couldn't be too far off.
And it wasn't until my thirdyear of college when I realized
I kind of made a mistake.
Oh no, and it definitely.
(15:49):
I definitely didn't want towork with humans.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
You have to say nay-nay.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
I ended up finishing with that degree.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
And then I spent a year working at the North
Carolina Zoo getting someexperience working with
different kinds of animals, andfrom there I went on and applied
for a master's degree inbiology So that was in Kentucky,
and I actually did study horses.
(16:19):
Then.
I was still.
I was kind of focused, at leasta little bit.
What I studied for my masterswas equine social behavior and
stress physiology.
So I was sitting out in a fieldwatching horses, recording all
their behaviors, and thenwhenever they would poop, i'd
run out there with my littlecooler and I'd collect a poop
(16:39):
sample that I would then store.
And I eventually brought thatall up to the St Louis Zoo where
I did some analysis on it.
So that was fun.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
And then from there into your doctorate.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
From there into my doctorate.
Here's where I start to reallylose focus.
While I was in Kentucky, iended up having to take a marine
biology class, and I say itthat way because I wasn't
excited about it.
I'm not a beach person, i'm notlike a water boat person, but
(17:17):
there was only so many graduateclasses that were being offered,
so I took it, and what theprofessor had all the grad
students do is they wereassigned a lecture and they got
to choose the topic that theywere gonna lecture on, And I
chose cephalopods, which is agroup of animals that include
(17:38):
squid, an octopus and cuttlefish, and I just totally fell in
love with them, cause they're soweird.
They're so weird.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
They're like aliens that live on earth.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
They really are.
Like just when you think theycan't get weird, or they do,
they're so weird And I just wasfascinated So I decided I wanted
to do my doctorate studyingcephalopods.
So I found the lab that Ieventually made my home, which
studied squid biomechanics,moved out to the coast And I
(18:14):
spent about five years on a boatcollecting squid and running
kind of like a hunger games typesituation with the squid to
figure out like what kind ofWere in their favor?
The odds were often not in theirfavor, unfortunately.
I was testing what kind ofsensory modalities they use when
(18:39):
they are trying to avoidpredators, so I would have them
in a tank with flounder, whichare surprisingly aggressive fish
.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
Oh, it's not like the little mermaid.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
No, I mean first of all, we know that little mermaid
fish is not a flounder.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
But secondly Okay, whoops.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
I mean they call it flounder, but I'm pretty sure
that's not a flounder.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
I'm sorry, I don't know anything about fish, I just
go.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
It tells me Flounder are kind of ugly in a cute way.
They're flat fish and theirfaces are actually all on one
side of their body.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
Yeah, so when they're little they look like normal
fish and then, as they grow,their face actually shifts like
all the way to a different sideof their body.
It's very weird.
That is weird So they don'tlook like they would be
ferocious predators, but they'reactually really fast.
They're pretty gnarly.
I actually had one once jumpout of the tank and bite my hand
(19:44):
.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
Really.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
Yeah, and it drew blood.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
It was pretty good, yeah, so You got flounder at
that point in its life.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
Yeah, no, but I collected a lot of awesome data
and was able to figure out somestuff that we didn't know before
about squid, so that wasexciting.
And then I graduated with mydegree and I took the job at the
university where I am now,which is the Norr-Ryne
University.
(20:15):
We do not have squid out herein Western North Carolina.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
Oh really.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
No squid, no squid.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
You're not close to the ocean.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
if you're on the ocean, I'm about four and a half
five hours away from the ocean.
My husband's a surfer, so hereminds me often.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
Sad fate.
Speaker 3 (20:35):
Far away.
We are from the beach, so whenI got here, they had this colony
of African clawed frogs thatwas just hanging out in the
university and they asked me ifI wanted the frogs to do
research And I thought sure, idon't have anything else, i'll
take the frogs.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
So from squid to frogs.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, so I lost focus again.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
No, no, it's great.
I have a quick couple offollow-up questions.
If that's a Yeah, i can'timagine there being more than a
whole bunch of people that arereally studying squid And I was
wondering if you know Dr SarahMeccanulty.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
I do, i do.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
I was like she's the other squid person that I know.
Speaker 3 (21:22):
Yes, no, we actually.
We have been internet friendsfor a long time now.
That's hilarious.
And then we actually we justmet for the first time.
In April.
We were both invited to RiceUniversity to do a panel on
scientists to use social media,and then she came to my
(21:43):
university just like two weekslater.
So we've actually had a lot offace-to-face time now, and I
even got to drive around in hersquid mobile.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Oh, my goodness, i'm gonna have to tell all my
students about this.
You've got a whole bunch ofstreet cred with them because
I've told the kids about thesquid mobile and they have seen
pictures of it.
And I would say now I knowanother scientist who I've
actually been in the squidmobile.
Speaker 3 (22:06):
It is pretty cool, i can't.
I was pretty pumped to bedriving around in that.
Not gonna lie, we walked aroundboth downtown Houston and
Hickory with squid stickers,looking for good places to So
fun Squids.
Yeah, it really was.
She's great.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
That is hilarious.
Before we get into the frogs, Ido have another question.
I love asking scientists this.
So you mentioned you rodehorses.
You were into equestrian.
Yes, Now I could ask you adozen questions from there,
because I love horses too.
But my big one is when you wereyoung, were you infatuated with
(22:44):
science, or did it come later,like from wanting to get back to
study horses?
you found a way to do that inyour undergrad.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
I was pretty animal obsessed as a little kid.
I grew up on Capitol Hill inWashington DC, So my parents
would take me to the NaturalHistory Museum and the zoo.
We were like members of the zooand did the boo at the zoo The
whole dealio.
I have pictures of my momriding on the metro dressed up
(23:18):
as a peacock and I'm a littlepanda bear, Uh-huh.
So my mom's an animal lover andshe was gonna make sure this
happened.
So no, I always I loved animals, I loved science, And I'd say
that something happenedsomewhere between middle school,
(23:45):
high school-ish time, And Ithink this happens to a lot of
girls who are interested inscience.
They get talked down andconvinced that they shouldn't be
there, whether directly orindirectly.
There's enough messaging thatsays like eh, this isn't for you
.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
That's stupid.
I'm sorry that happened to you.
I tell all my female studentsthat they could be the best
scientist in the world, so I'msorry, absolutely.
It is so true.
I'm sorry that happened to you.
Speaker 3 (24:15):
I can't even think of a direct time it happened, but
it clearly did because I lovedscience.
And then by the time I got tocollege, i was afraid of a
biology major.
I should have always beenbiology, but I was too afraid of
it.
So, yeah, should have beenthere all along.
(24:37):
Glad I'm back, for sure.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
There you go.
Okay, i do have a questionabout you with horses.
What type of equestrian stuffdid you do, like jumping or like
the dressage?
Speaker 3 (24:49):
Yeah, I grew up doing inventing and then became a
pretty serious dressagecompetitor throughout college.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
Okay, that's awesome.
Speaker 3 (25:01):
Yeah, so I still actually have a horse.
She's on my farm now.
I got her 16 years ago, yeah, ithink, when I was just
finishing up college just alittle baby horse and trained
her up while I was in graduateschool and tried to compete
while I was getting my PhD.
(25:22):
That was really hard, yeah, oh,but yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
Horses are so neat and surprisingly long lived too.
Speaker 3 (25:30):
Yeah, i feel like I should knock on some wood.
She's 21 now and she's justhanging out enjoying her life.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
That's awesome.
Okay, so back to frogs.
Somebody came along with a tubof frogs and they're hey, doc,
do you need these frogs?
And then you're like sure, idon't know what happened.
Speaker 3 (25:53):
Yeah, that's basically how it went In our
introductory biology class.
They end up breeding thesefrogs every year and then
watching the eggs and thetadpoles as they go through
development.
So then at the end of the yearthey have all these frogs.
So yeah, i was just like sureI'll take a look at these frogs,
(26:17):
and it turns out they are very,very cool.
They have a bit of a story thatgoes with them.
If we have time for a frogstory, You go.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
I'm just so happy to listen.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
Okay, so they're African clawed frogs, so they're
from Africa.
They have these weird littleblack claws on their hind legs,
which is unusual for anamphibian, and they are now a
super invasive species aroundthe world.
I know, yeah, it's because itwas discovered that if you
(27:01):
inject them with urine, theywill release eggs if that person
is pregnant.
So they were actually theoriginal pregnancy tests.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
No, is that?
are you being sarcastic, or isthat real?
Speaker 3 (27:21):
That's very real.
Yeah, so they were the originalpregnancy tests and, like up
through the 60s, labs andhospitals just had stocks of
these frogs everywhere.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
They were weird.
Speaker 3 (27:34):
And yeah, and it was cool because it was the first
before that you could do rats orrabbits, but you had to dissect
them and it was like a wholebig deal.
The frogs would just releaseeggs.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
I can't believe this.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
Yeah, if you're pregnant.
So yeah, up into the 60s, untilnow, like the stick tests, yep,
that we use.
that was the frogs, and they'realso very good escape artists.
So they were getting out oflabs and things And I can attest
to this.
I don't know how they escaped.
(28:10):
They're fully aquatic So theyshouldn't be able to be as
stealthy as they are, but they.
I've definitely lost a fewfrogs.
I don't know where they went.
One day I'm going to find themall dried up in a corner or
something.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
but They're clearly like the penguins of Madagascar
When you're not looking, they'repulling shenanigans and running
schematics.
Speaker 3 (28:31):
Yeah, yeah, no, truly .
So these frogs were all overthe world starting to escape and
then people were just gettingdone with them and releasing
them everywhere And they arereally, really good at being an
invasive species because theylive for like 20 years and
they'll eat anything.
(28:52):
They're super resistant, liketemperature changes all the
things that usually gets anamphibian.
These guys are fine with.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
Frogs.
They're super susceptible tochanges in temperature and pH.
And all of that Right.
Speaker 3 (29:06):
All of that, but these ones are pretty hardy.
And there's another thing thatamphibians right now are being
really affected by.
It's this fungus calledKitchred.
And yeah, have you heard ofthis?
Speaker 2 (29:21):
I talked to John Nathan Colby, who studies some
frogs, and he mentioned theKitchred fungus.
Speaker 3 (29:26):
It's super dangerous.
It's super dangerous.
It gets in their skin and sincetheir skin is so fragile and
permeable, it just like it justbranches out all throughout
their skin and kills the animal.
The African clawed frogsactually don't get it.
They have a mucus on their skinthat has antimicrobial
(29:49):
properties and they can't get it, But they actually.
Now researchers are starting tothink that the African clawed
frogs are the ones that gave itto other amphibians.
They had this protectivemechanism in the mucus because
they were exposed to it in theirnatural environments, So then
(30:10):
that exposure became widespreadwhen they were released
everywhere else.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
And this is just all the you're just studying,
looking at little like all ofthe different physiology aspects
of these frogs when you weregiven the tub with them.
Speaker 3 (30:25):
Yeah, i was.
I'm focusing on what sensorymodalities they use to find
their prey.
So kind of the opposite of whatI did with the squid, but both
of these animals.
I was focused in on a sensorysystem called the lateral line
system, and this is a literalline of hair cells like little
(30:48):
itsy bitsy, microscopic whiskersthat are on their body and help
them to feel the way that watermoves around them, so they can
feel if something is swimmingtowards them quickly or
something is trying to swim awayfrom them.
And the African clawed frogsare unique because most frogs
get rid of this feature whenthey become full grown frogs,
(31:13):
but the African clawed frogsretain it.
So I was interested in howthey're using this to find their
prey, knowing that they eateverything.
And I've been chatting casuallywith some folks in Washington
state, where they just declaredthe most dangerous invasive
species in Washington state,talking about like how we could
(31:36):
potentially tap into thesedifferent sensory modalities in
order to help controlpopulations.
So we'll see.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
Does it give them an advantage having this, or is
that not?
are you still looking at that?
You're still.
That's a question you've yet toanswer.
Speaker 3 (31:53):
I.
It's a question I've yet toanswer.
I think surely it does, and nowit's just a matter of figuring
out what and how.
I'm pretty sure their vision isabsolute garbage.
They do not seem to.
They're very derpy animals LikeI'll be in there messing with
(32:14):
their tanks for a solid 10minutes and then, out of nowhere
, they'll suddenly notice thatI'm there and freak out.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
I don't know why that was so funny.
Speaker 3 (32:24):
Yeah, so in terms of what's going on with them,
that's a little tough to know.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
That is a clip I can clip for an ad.
I'm pretty sure their vision isabsolute garbage.
I got tears coming out of thecenter of my eye.
I just Google image them.
They do kind of look likethey're oddballs.
They also think they are justweird looking bulbousy things.
Speaker 3 (32:52):
Yep, they also don't have the frog tongue that you
think about, the one that canextend out and grab prey and
just have a little tongue.
So when they eat food, theyhave to stuff it in their mouths
with their hands.
Oh my goodness.
Speaker 2 (33:08):
But everything else clearly works great on them
because they're so good atsurviving.
Speaker 3 (33:12):
They're doing just fine Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
They.
you know what, if you, some ofour listeners, play Dungeons and
Dragons and they appreciatethis joke, it's like the frog
rolled a three on charisma andan 18 on Constitution.
Speaker 3 (33:26):
Yeah, fair enough, it's.
Yeah, you're not wrong Oh mygoodness, okay, okay.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
I got wiped tears out of my eyes.
So, all right, that's the frogs.
We got the frog story done.
That's awesome.
Please, google image thesefrogs, folks, the African,
african clawed frog.
Not when you're driving, buttake a look at these, these
weirdo looking frogs.
Then you study chimpanzees aswell.
Speaker 3 (33:55):
A little bit.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
So, but yeah, nobody came by with a box of
chimpanzees and said, hey, doyou want these as well?
Speaker 3 (34:03):
Not quite Okay, and if anybody ever does come to you
with a box of chimpanzee kids,you should say no, thank you and
contact a zoo because theydon't make great pets.
No, i have been working withthe North Carolina Zoo.
I've done two differentresearch projects with them that
(34:26):
were really run by students,where I got the project
connected and started and Iworked with them on designing it
, but they were the ones whowere actually there collecting
all of the data.
So the chimpanzee project wasthe first one that I did there
with a student named Lonnie Fox,and the North Carolina Zoo has
(34:51):
kind of a unique setup when itcomes to chimpanzees.
I'll say the North Carolina Zoois absolutely incredible.
If you ever get a chance tovisit, it is literally the
largest zoo in the world.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
Really.
Speaker 3 (35:06):
Yes, acreage wise.
It's the kind of zoo wherepeople get upset because they
can't see the animals, becausethey're too far away.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
Which is great.
Oh yeah, oh, yeah Okay.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
Yeah, it's great for the animals.
So they're chimpanzees.
They have these two differenttroops that they end up kind of
rotating out and like a fewmembers go between the two
troops, and one of the troops ismade up of kind of oddballs,
chimps who have had kind ofrough history.
(35:39):
Some were like circus chimps,others were pet chimps but they
didn't ever really learn how tobe a chimp the right way, and
another group that was a littlebit more on par with what you
would expect from a naturaltroop.
So we were studying thedifferences in the behaviors of
those two individuals And thegoal with any of my zoo projects
(36:05):
is to give some informationback to the zoo that they can
hopefully use to betterunderstand what's going on with
their animals, and so I think wefound that there was just some
differences in how they behaved.
There was, remember, kendall's,one of the male chimps.
(36:27):
His favorite thing to do iswhen there's people around.
He likes to run up and smackthe glass as hard as he can, and
I think he thinks it's fun.
I think he'd like seeing howpeople respond.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
Oh, he's trying to freak them out or make them
laugh or something.
Speaker 3 (36:45):
Yeah, i think he is, I think he is Yeah, and so we're
watching for those kinds ofbehaviors.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
You know, i'm not going to lie, if I was stuck in
a zoo, i would constantly bemessing with the people that
were looking at me.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
Yeah, i know I would too.
And then we also have worked ona project with the elephants at
the North Carolina Zoo as well.
That was like the year beforelast.
They have definitely one of thelargest elephant populations in
the US.
Most zoos are actually phasingelephants out of zoos, mostly
(37:26):
because there's been more andmore attention paid to how their
habitat should and shouldn'tlook and whether they should
really be in like the smallurban zoos.
But North Carolina is huge Andthey now, i think, have the
largest number of bull elephantsa boy elephants of any zoo in
(37:50):
the country, and what we werestudying was the behavior of a
brand new bull that they hadjust brought in.
So they had two older ones.
One is actually literally theoldest one in the country And
this new guy was brought in withthe hopes of breeding with some
of the young females that theyhave.
(38:11):
So we were watching how heacclimated and the behaviors of
the females if they were curiousabout getting to know him.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
So that was really fun too, some elephant romance.
Speaker 3 (38:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
Imagine it's very awkward.
I think like teenagers you know, trying to ask each other out
on dates is okay.
Imagine if you're like a 2000plus pound animal.
Yes, yeah Like sliding up thereand saying Hey, what are you
doing on Saturday?
I don't know, we're in a zoo,go away.
(38:48):
Same thing every night.
Speaker 3 (38:51):
Yeah, it was, it was neat, it was really neat.
Speaker 2 (38:54):
Elephants are so freaking huge.
Like were you?
Yes, Like do you ever?
I mean, you've been around them, But every time I see them I'm
just like, Oh my God, they're sogiant things They're, so they
are.
Speaker 3 (39:08):
They are humongous.
Yeah, i've gotten to do freecontacts twice with elephants,
which is where you go in withoutany barrier between you and the
elephant, and they really don'tlet people do that anymore.
Anywhere, even like people whowork with the elephants at the
(39:29):
zoos, there's always a barrier,especially with the African
elephants, because they tend tobe a little more temperamental
than the Asian elephants.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
Yeah, because those they get if they want to smash
you your jelly.
Speaker 3 (39:41):
Yep, absolutely.
There is nothing that is goingto stop them If they get upset.
Speaker 2 (39:47):
Yeah, i think like where we live there's moose, and
that's the biggest thing inCanada is a moose right?
Speaker 3 (39:53):
Moose are humongous too.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
They are giant, but they are not as big, anywhere
near as big as an elephant, andthat is freaky.
Speaker 3 (40:00):
Yes, Yes, Now they are humongous.
I am glad that I did thatbefore.
I really knew better.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
Okay, Yeah, because otherwise you might have been
bit freaked out.
She's like cool, I could havebeen murdered by an elephant
today.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
Awesome.
So one of the questions we askall of our guests to talk about
is a pet story.
Could you share a pet storywith us?
Speaker 3 (40:28):
Pets are a really big part of my life.
My husband and I actually run alittle animal sanctuary, so
that has been that was a goal ofours for the past 10 years that
we were able to really getgoing in like the past five.
So we have two donkeys, myhorse, we have chickens, we have
(40:53):
a ton of cats who, as you yeah,as you have heard do not like
to be separated from me.
So, gosh, i have so manystories, i think so.
My horse, her name is VioletAnd she went super viral on the
(41:18):
internet a few years ago.
Really, yes, she so she's likea big, she's chunky, furry, and
we live in North Carolina And sothere's rarely any weather that
comes by where she needs towear a blanket.
But she's worn blankets all ofher life.
She knows how to do it, she's.
It's a fine thing, but sheprefers not to.
(41:42):
And there was an ice storm thatwas rolling through And I wanted
to just put a layer ofwaterproof coat on her And I put
it on her and she just likeinstantly got down on the ground
and started pouting, and I tooka picture of her and she
literally has her eyeballsrolled in the back of her head,
(42:03):
and so I tweeted it and I saidsomething about like.
I don't even remember what Isaid, but something along the
lines of like having animals isa lot like having kids.
She just played dead because Imade her wear a coat And it like
blew up.
It jumped all the platforms.
(42:24):
She has news articles writtenabout her in Canadian newspapers
, actually, and in the Hindutimes, so she's gotten quite the
reputation for being a littleclown, which is great.
She's a huge personality.
I love her dearly.
That was just that it happenedto be a funny moment.
(42:45):
But also having any animalthing go viral is like it's such
a double one.
Speaker 2 (42:51):
Really, my horse isn't dead.
Speaker 3 (42:53):
Yes, yes, i muted it a long time ago because I found
it.
Okay, people just have so manythings they want to tell me
She's terrified.
How could you do that to her?
I'm like she's fine.
Speaker 1 (43:09):
She's fine.
Speaker 2 (43:12):
Well, people should see what happens when Bunsen
gets wet.
He is not happy when he getswet and he lets me know about it
.
He takes it all out on me.
It doesn't matter, it's myfault.
If he gets wet, yep, he'll havea little hissy fit and he's 100
pounds and he looks like apoddler, so I get it.
Speaker 3 (43:32):
Yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (43:34):
That's pretty cute.
I'm going to bookmark this somaybe I can use it in the ad for
this show.
Sure Well, thanks for sharingyour pet story with us, doc.
The other standard question wehave is a super fact.
It's something that you knowthat when you tell people, it
kind of like blows their mind abit.
You have a super fact you couldshare with us.
Speaker 3 (43:55):
I have so many super facts, my head is just like
overflowing and I've changed mymind probably five times in the
span of talking to you whatsuper fact I wanted to share.
But you know I'm gonna talkabout squid, because They are my
deep love and they are so weird.
(44:15):
So squid can change color justlike an octopus or a cuttlefish,
and They can change your colorin a fraction of a second.
And the reason that they can dothat is Because they change
their color in a completelydifferent way than, say, like a
chameleon does.
So they actually have thousandsof little organs in their skin
(44:39):
called chromatophores, and eachof these little organs is like a
A, a pit of color within a ringof muscle around it, and each
one is attached to its ownseparate nerve So it can Open
and close that color just soincredibly quickly.
(45:00):
So even a chameleon like takesa little bit of time because
it's changing its color througha hormonal pathway.
Speaker 2 (45:06):
Yeah, it's like minutes right to chameleon 30
seconds to two minutes to changecolor.
Speaker 3 (45:11):
Yeah, but squid, cuttlefish, octopus, fractions
of a second, and they can do itin Infinite number of different
patterns, because they do justcan fire each one on the round.
Speaker 2 (45:22):
How does it know?
How does it know, like I'veseen them, am I on the right
track, like they can change partof their body, or yeah, yeah,
how do they know?
Speaker 3 (45:36):
That's a great question.
Like I am assuming that it'sthe same thing is like knowing
when you're Winking your righteye or your left eye.
Speaker 2 (45:46):
Oh my god.
Speaker 3 (45:47):
Like I mean, that's what I would guess.
So I think it's just muscularcontrol.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
Huh, like, like, like flexing your abs, but all over,
yeah, yeah, that is bananas.
That's like next-level superhero stuff.
Speaker 3 (46:02):
It is.
It is in fact, they're beingstudied for some like military
technology, to be like how couldwe use this for Climaclodge?
Speaker 2 (46:10):
right next thing we need is squid soldiers, yeah.
Speaker 3 (46:15):
Or squid suits.
At least that'd be fun.
Speaker 2 (46:18):
Okay Yeah, that's a little more ethical.
Speaker 3 (46:22):
Hmm.
Speaker 2 (46:23):
So squid or octopus, you're more on team squid.
Speaker 3 (46:27):
Um, yeah, because that's, that's the critter that
I have spent so much time with.
I mean, octopuses are reallyreally stinking cool.
I mean I would be more thanhappy to study some octopus
behavior.
For sure I wanted to.
They are actually really hardto keep in captivity.
They're great escape artists,kind of like my African frogs,
(46:51):
um, but you need to like ducttape the tops to their tanks on
and if there's any kind offiltration valves You need to
make sure it's blocked becausethey'll just get out.
Speaker 2 (47:01):
It's just like no mission impossible themselves
out.
Speaker 3 (47:04):
They will, they will and they can fit through
anything that if they can fittheir beak.
So where their mouth is, theyhave a beak, just like a parrot.
If they can fit their beakthrough it, they can fit their
entire body through it.
Speaker 2 (47:17):
Squid and octopus.
I tell you, it's like Evolutionwent one way and they went the
other and it just kept gettingweirder and kept working.
Speaker 3 (47:26):
Yeah, it worked.
They've been around for like500 million years.
Speaker 2 (47:31):
Yeah, they're.
I mean I can't say, if it ain'tbroke, don't fix it, because
they've been like continuouslychanging for the you know along
the way, but like the Weirdness,apparently works to keep you
Yeah it does.
What a great super fact.
Chromatophores.
Speaker 3 (47:48):
Chromatophores can you use?
Speaker 2 (47:49):
that in scrabble?
Yeah, i think somebody willcall challenge, though, but we
can just use this podcast asevidence.
Speaker 3 (47:55):
Yeah, let them call challenge, It's a real word.
Speaker 2 (48:00):
So the last question of the podcast, that I'm sad
we're coming to the end, but weask our guests to share a little
bit about themselves like ahobby or cause, and you already
mentioned that.
You had a hinted at it, but Ithink you wanted to talk about
your animal sanctuary.
Speaker 3 (48:16):
Yeah, so we have About ten acres where again we
have these critters.
All of them, except for thehorse, came from some kind of an
unfortunate Circumstance beforethe horse.
I've had her for 16 years, soshe just she tolerated me for
this long and that's herunfortunate circumstance.
(48:37):
So now she gets to just retireand chill out.
But we, we also try to grow asmuch food as we can, and some
years that is more than otherslike we really want to be able
to be good stewards of the earthand Take care of this potted
land that we have.
(48:58):
So we've plotted, we've we'veplanted a lot of fruit trees, we
grow strawberries andraspberries, we have squash and
tomatoes, cucumbers all cookingout there right now.
And since I've learned, sincewe moved here, i've learned how
to can and preserve food.
So I do spend a lot of timeevery year doing that.
(49:20):
And then I'd like to giveThat's my Christmas gifts now as
homemade pickles and jelliesand jams.
It's fun, it's fun.
So we're about to get into yourcanning season Again.
I've just I have two big bagsof strawberries I just collected
, so it's about jam time.
Speaker 2 (49:41):
Very good.
Could you give a rundown ofsome of the animals that you
have?
Speaker 3 (49:44):
Yeah, sure.
So violet is my silly horse.
We have Rosie, who is aminiature donkey.
Speaker 2 (49:53):
Oh my goodness, miniature donkey.
Speaker 3 (49:56):
Oh, she's ridiculous.
She's so cute and she's so muchtrouble.
She's really really smart andif there is a way for her to be
naughty She's gonna take it.
She we actually last year hadto put brand new, nice fencing
up around the property because Ihad I had some pretty shady
fencing up before, but it workedUntil she figured out that it
(50:20):
didn't really work.
And then she took her buddyJude on an adventure In the dark
of night to our neighbor'sproperty.
If the, if the barn doors opena little bit, she will be in
there eating all the food.
She's just, she's a naughtylittle thing.
And she came before we got her.
(50:40):
She was living with some goats.
An old farmer just had her outwith some goats And I don't
think she'd ever seen anotherdonkey, at least not since she
was taken from her mom.
And then we have Jude, who Isthe newest resident, got her
about a year and a half ago andshe was actually Add a kill pen
(51:02):
on her way to a slaughterhouseAnd was pulled as a rescue.
And she, she's a youngster,she's only.
I Guess she's about four now.
She was three when I broughther to the farm.
Rosie's probably 12ish,although you wouldn't know and
(51:22):
She is very sweet and very, veryshy She.
If you don't approach her,she'll come up to you and ask
for snuggles in no time.
If you approach her, she'sLittle put off by that, but
she's like the sweetest and sheloves our cats.
She just wants to type ananimal.
Speaker 2 (51:43):
is she?
Jude is a donkey, okay.
Speaker 3 (51:46):
Yeah, yes, she's a standard donkey, so not not as
tiny, but it's still very cute,yeah.
And then cat wise, the one whohas been a booger this evening,
that is strummer.
Oh, i guess he's actually thenewest resident.
He came in the fall.
He was found under a bush witha super broken leg.
(52:10):
Oh no, yeah, like it was sobadly broken that that's thought
we should just amputate it.
But then we also found out hehas a really bad heart murmur.
So we didn't want to do thesurgery And I'm glad we didn't,
because it actually healed uppretty decently.
For what it was.
He's kind of funny when he runslike gets all crooked and kind
(52:31):
of looks like a monkey, butthat's okay.
So, yeah.
And then we have the wholeoutdoor crew of cats, who mostly
have just shown up over timeand Now chill out here, and
that's fine.
They help with rodents and Igive them some treats.
Speaker 2 (52:52):
Nice, what a menagerie of amazing animals.
Speaker 3 (52:55):
Yeah, yeah, and we have right now just one chicken,
and her and one of the cats arebest friends, nice.
Speaker 2 (53:04):
Well, doc, we're at the end of our talk.
Thank you so much for being aguest on the science podcast
today.
Thank you for inviting so funand so informative.
Can people follow you on socialmedia?
I know I'm I'm like tellingpeople about these pictures on
your.
Yeah, where can people find youon social media?
Speaker 3 (53:22):
I am at biology Carly on Twitter and At biology Carly
on tiktok, and I'm the littlebiologist on Instagram.
Speaker 2 (53:34):
Awesome.
We'll make sure those links arein the show notes So everybody
can give you a follow and seewhat you're up to.
Which are you most active on?
Speaker 3 (53:42):
I should ask most active on Twitter, although I'm
trying to do.
I'm trying to do more tiktoks.
I don't actually love doing it,but people seem to like seeing
them, so I'm trying to do moretiktoks And putting those both
(54:02):
honestly on Instagram as well.
So, hmm, but Twitter is whereyou're gonna get the most Recent
stupid thing that comes to mymind.
Speaker 2 (54:12):
Bunsen and beaker just followed you on tiktok
sweet.
Well, again, it was a treattalking to you and thanks for
giving up your time.
Speaker 3 (54:21):
Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 2 (54:23):
We are proud to have bark and beyond supply comm now
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Bark and beyond supply comm isa small, family owned company
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they sell toys and treats and awhole bunch of other goodies.
Skip the big box stores andcheck out the amazing deals and
(54:47):
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Click the link.
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How about the little guy?
Well, that's the end of thisweek's show.
(55:09):
No family section.
Adam is at the Calgary stampedeWith the Red Deer Royals
marching band, i think.
As I'm saying this, they arePracticing in preparation for
the Calgary stampede parade.
We're very proud of him.
We saw him compete yesterday inthe show band showdown Which
(55:29):
was in McMahon Stadium inCalgary, so he'll be back next
week.
I want to thank Dr Carly York,who talked to us in the ask an
expert section.
I also.
I also want to give a shout outto the top dogs, that is, the
top tier of our community, thepop-up.
If you want to support the show, keep it free and Hear your
(55:51):
name and get all the perks thatcomes with it.
Sign up in the show notes tothe pop-up.
They'll be a link there.
All right, chris, take it away.
Speaker 1 (56:00):
Alicia Stanley, the herd, wendy, diane Mason and
Luke Linda, sherry, tracyHalberg, carol McDonald, helen
Chin, elizabeth bourgeois, peggyMcKeel, mary La Magna writer,
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Donna, craig, amy C, susanWagner, kathy Zercher, liz
Button and Ben Rathart forscience, empathy and cuteness.
Hello science enthusiasts.
My name is Jason Zikowski.
I'm a high school chemistryteacher and a science
communicator, but I'm also thedog dad of Bunsen and Beaker,
the science dogs on social media.
If you love science and youlove pets, you've come to the
right place.
Put on your lab coat, put onyour safety glasses and hold
onto your tail.
(00:28):
This is the Science Podcast.
Hello, welcome back to theScience Podcast.
I hope you're happy and healthyout there.
It's the summer, that's right.
We're on summer holidays.
It is glorious.
We're hopeful to have a verybusy July, as Chris and I have
been hard at work writing textsfrom Bunsen Volume 2.
(00:49):
That's been a big job, butreally excited to get out on the
rivers and into the mountainsfor some summertime rest and
relaxation.
Okay, what's on the SciencePodcast this week?
In science news, we're going totake a look at a study and
statistics on teenage depression, especially in boys.
And in pet science we're goingto look at the cat brain And our
(01:14):
guest and ask and expert is DrCarly York, who is going to
regale us with tales of animalbehavior and how her life
changed when somebody handed hera tub of frogs.
Okay, the bad joke.
Why are frogs just so happy allthe time.
Well, they always eat whateverbugs them.
(01:36):
Okay, i'm with the show becausethere's no time like science
time.
This week in Science News, let'stake a look at some information
that has come out aboutdepression in young men or
teenage boys.
Now the statistics and thestudy that I'm going to be
looking at comes from the YouthRisk Behavior Survey, which was
(01:57):
conducted by the CDC.
This is American data, but youcan probably extrapolate it
pretty evenly to Canada, andthis survey collected data from
17,000 students in 31 differentstates.
They asked a whole bunch ofmental health questions.
If you compare the girls to theboys, more girls felt
(02:17):
persistent feelings of sadnessor hopelessness, and that
includes depression.
Well, only one third of teenageboys reported those feelings.
That's still really high, andif you've been hearing the words
bantered around mental healthcrisis, it's higher than it's
ever been.
Experts aren't really able toput their finger on why it's up
(02:39):
so much.
There are ideas why teens sufferfrom more sadness than their
counterparts decades ago.
It ranges from ideas likecoming out of the pandemic,
being isolated, or big pictureideas like the impending climate
problems.
Now, what's interesting in thestudy is they compared how the
(03:00):
boys dealt with depression orexpressed depressive symptoms
differently than girls.
Now, not taking anything awayfrom girls, because they do face
very unique stressors in NorthAmerica and the world, really
like bullying on social media,sexual violence and sometimes
wherever, depending on where youare, like a pretty hostile
(03:21):
political climate to you being agirl.
But depression in the surveyfound that.
But in the survey it was foundthat depression manifested very
differently in boys.
Whereas girls internalized howthey were feeling, boys maybe
externalize them, but theydidn't really come out in the
form of sadness.
And in the study it appearedthat masculine norms, like
(03:45):
showing weakness, make it harderfor boys to admit that they're
depressive.
And this leads a lot of peoplewho look at this data to
conclude that depression isunderdiagnosed in young men.
If you look at the raw data,you're like boy.
More girls are suffering fromdepression than guys.
(04:05):
There could be a reason whythat is is they are more
comfortable admitting it ortheir symptoms fall more in line
with what depression symptomsmight be.
After looking at this data, abunch of psychologists crunched
the numbers and they're prettysure about 10% of males miss
(04:26):
their depression diagnosis bythrough these screening tools.
If we look at other countrieswhere there have been some
success with depression andsuicide rates.
An area of Sweden tried totackle depression by having very
targeted suicide preventionprograms And the decline of
suicide rates among girls wentway, way down, but among men it
(04:49):
remained unchanged.
So there may be a better way toscreen for depression in men
and it may take completelydifferent screening tools A
focus on suppressing youremotion.
Anger and aggression andrisk-taking behaviors are
associated with depression inmen.
If you ask somebody on a survey, especially if they're men and
(05:12):
they are having issues withexpressing emotions, they may
shy away from questions askingabout how sad you are, how
hopeless are you.
That man on the survey theyoung man on the survey may say
I'm not sad, i'm not hopeless.
Now, of course, some of thesesymptoms, like aggression or
(05:33):
risk-taking, may not be relatedto depression.
They could be related to manyother things, like ADHD.
It's a tough thing And I thinkwe need to start younger, with
boys saying that you know it'sokay to be vulnerable and
express your emotions.
In the past, the suck it upbuttercup had some success,
(05:57):
potentially, but it's notworking anymore.
This isn't just the CDC data.
This is data from all over theworld that when boys and young
men try to conform to masculinenorms of stoicism being very
stoic and not expressing youremotions.
That is directly linked to poormental health outcomes and a
(06:20):
reduction in health seekingbehavior.
The vast majority of suicide,sadly, are men and perhaps
completely different researchand screening tools are needed
to help with the mental healththat is very different than what
women may experience for younggirls.
That's science news for thisweek.
This week in Pet Science, let'stalk about the cat brain.
(06:42):
Cats and dogs The argumentabout who is smarter will rage
on forever.
Now it's been pretty muchconcluded that, quote unquote
dogs are smarter than cats.
Now, is that a fair statement?
What does the cat brain looklike?
(07:03):
Why would somebody concludethat a dog might be smarter than
a cat?
One of the things that reallyhurts cats, one of the things
that cats have going againstthem, is that cats really don't
help out society that we dogs do.
Dogs have a lot of good will.
Dogs get their paws dirty.
(07:23):
They are helping as therapyanimals, they are guide dogs,
they are seizure dogs, they'rebomb sniffing dogs.
They're military dogs.
They can jump out of anaircraft.
They can find somebody who'sbeen trapped under an avalanche.
So there's a whole bunch ofgood will capital that dogs have
spent, you know, in theirlobbying effort to convince
(07:46):
everybody that they're the bestAnd, to their credit, they've
done a pretty good job.
It is really hard to find a catthat may be used in the same
role as all of these other dogs.
I don't think a police catwould be very helpful in chasing
down perpetrators.
I'm not sure what a militarycat would do, and a seeing eye
(08:08):
cat?
I'm uncertain of how helpful itwould be.
Now, does this have to do withcats being dumb?
No, cats have smaller brainsthan humans and dogs, but
they're smaller creatures.
Remember, brain size doesn'talways determine intelligence.
There's something in a brain,how it folds and surface folding
and brain structure are waymore important than brain size.
(08:32):
I want to say a cow brain isprobably bigger than a dog brain
And I think we can probablyagree that a dog's a little bit
smarter than a cat And in manyrespects a cat brain is more
similar to a human brain than adog brain is similar to human
brain.
So let's take a look at thecerebral cortex in a cat brain.
A cerebral cortex is known asgray matter.
(08:53):
It's the outermost layer ofyour brain.
It's where all nerve cells andnerve tissue are.
It's got that wrinkledappearance.
From all of the groovingnessthat it's got It folds in on
itself.
This cerebral cortex is reallyimportant for problem solving,
learning, thinking, emotions andmemory.
(09:16):
I kind of feel like just listedoff intelligence, would you
agree?
Would you agree?
Okay, that's what the cerebralcortex is.
And guess what?
Cat's cerebral cortex is a lotlarger and more complicated and
complex compared to that of dogs.
Cats have probably stuff tocount them, but cats have twice
(09:36):
as many neurons in theircerebral cortex compared to dogs
.
Now, some other surprisingthings is that in the visual
areas of a cat brain, like theareas of their brain that codes
vision, they have way more nervecells in their brain than
humans and almost all othermammals on earth.
It's tough to test this, butthere are some studies that show
(09:57):
cats have longer lastingmemories than dogs.
So why is this a?
So if a cat brain maybeoutshines a dog brain, if a cat
brain has a strongerthinky-thinky cortex, what's the
deal with cats not reallyhelping themselves out by
(10:20):
looking very intelligent?
Well, there's a lot of goodevidence into two different
types of IQ.
There's intelligence IQ andthen there's social emotional IQ
.
Dogs are far superior to catsin social emotional intelligence
.
Cats can probably solve just ashard of cognition problems as
(10:44):
dogs, but the big problem thatthey have is they're not
motivated to do so.
They are.
They were not selected forobedience or different traits
like listening and learning.
Cats kind of like found a placethat was warm and had food, and
(11:04):
the more tame, more friendlycats more likely to be taken in
by the humans.
Compared to a dog, cats arereally impulsive and they have
virtually no patience, for whenthe going gets tough, a dog will
work at, you know, a toy or acong that's got a little bit of
(11:25):
food in it for a long time.
If you put peanut butter in acong for Bunsen and Beaker, they
are going to be happy as clamsfor a long time.
But when they do the samestudies and the same tests with
cats, cats just straight up giveup.
They just give up.
They just don't have the stickwitheness that dogs do.
(11:46):
Is it unfair, then, to crowndogs as being smarter than cats?
I don't know.
I think a better conclusion isthat dogs are just smarter at
the things that we want them todo, and we've selected them to
do the things that we want themto do.
Perhaps if some researchersomewhere spent like 1,000 years
(12:06):
selecting cats to I don't knowhelp out in airports sniffing
for bombs because cats have apretty good sense of smell
perhaps we could get some bombdetecting cats And I'm not
saying there's not a bombdetecting cat somewhere in the
world.
Somebody's probably gonna sendme an article about Wilbur the
(12:26):
bomb detecting cat, but it'spretty rare.
Do you have a smart cat?
Do you think your cat issmarter than it lets on?
Tell us about it.
That's Pet Science for thisweek.
Hey everybody, before we get tothe interview section, here's a
couple ways you can help thescience podcast out.
Number one if you're on anyplace that rates podcasts, give
(12:48):
us a great rating.
Tell your friends and share itwith people who love science and
pets, like teachers.
Number two think about signingup as a member of the Paw Pack.
It allows you to connect withpeople who love our show and
it's a way to keep the show free.
Number three check out ourmerch store.
We have the Bunsen Stuffie 2.0.
(13:09):
There's still some beakerstuffies left.
They're adorable as well Warm,cuddly clothes and adorable
drinkware.
The link is in the show notes.
Now on to the interview.
It's time for Ask an Expert onthe Science Podcast, and I have
Dr Carly York, who is an animalphysiologist, with me today.
(13:29):
Doc, how are you doing?
I'm good, i'm happy to be here.
Oh, i'm so excited you said yes, your training has kind of rate
up the science podcast, ali,being with animals, where are
you in the world?
Where are you calling into theshow from?
Speaker 3 (13:46):
I am close to Hickory , North Carolina, which is the
middle of nowhere, but it's likeWestern North Carolina.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Oh, you think you're in the middle of nowhere.
I'm in the middle of nowhere,alberta, canada, which is much,
much removed from the middle.
I mean you have to drivesomewhere to get to the middle
of nowhere.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
Yeah, fair enough.
All right, I am only like 15minutes from a Walmart, so There
you go there you go.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
Have you lived there your whole life or have you had
to move around for school, worklife?
Speaker 3 (14:15):
Oh yeah, no, not at all.
I moved here about six yearsago.
Before that I was in VirginiaBeach area finishing up my PhD
at Old Dominion University.
Before that I was working on mymaster's degree at Western
Kentucky University, and beforethat I did my bachelor's degree
(14:38):
actually in Burlington, northCarolina.
So I've kind of come fullcircle back around to North
Carolina, but I grew up inWashington DC, so this is very
foreign from home, still Gotcha.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Now my next question would be a little bit about your
science training, And youtalked about where your
education came from, but I waswondering if you could talk a
little bit about what youreducation was.
What's your training in science?
Speaker 3 (15:04):
Sure, i'm a physiologist and I've always
been a physiologist, but thathas looked very different at
different parts of my career.
So I used to ride horsescompetitively And when I went to
college I wanted to.
I studied exercise physiologybut I wanted to apply it to
(15:28):
horses.
Now when you study exercisephysiology at university, it's
focused on human anatomy andphysiology but I figured, yeah,
it couldn't be too far off.
And it wasn't until my thirdyear of college when I realized
I kind of made a mistake.
Oh no, and it definitely.
(15:49):
I definitely didn't want towork with humans.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
You have to say nay-nay.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
I ended up finishing with that degree.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
And then I spent a year working at the North
Carolina Zoo getting someexperience working with
different kinds of animals, andfrom there I went on and applied
for a master's degree inbiology So that was in Kentucky,
and I actually did study horses.
(16:19):
Then.
I was still.
I was kind of focused, at leasta little bit.
What I studied for my masterswas equine social behavior and
stress physiology.
So I was sitting out in a fieldwatching horses, recording all
their behaviors, and thenwhenever they would poop, i'd
run out there with my littlecooler and I'd collect a poop
(16:39):
sample that I would then store.
And I eventually brought thatall up to the St Louis Zoo where
I did some analysis on it.
So that was fun.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
And then from there into your doctorate.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
From there into my doctorate.
Here's where I start to reallylose focus.
While I was in Kentucky, iended up having to take a marine
biology class, and I say itthat way because I wasn't
excited about it.
I'm not a beach person, i'm notlike a water boat person, but
(17:17):
there was only so many graduateclasses that were being offered,
so I took it, and what theprofessor had all the grad
students do is they wereassigned a lecture and they got
to choose the topic that theywere gonna lecture on, And I
chose cephalopods, which is agroup of animals that include
(17:38):
squid, an octopus and cuttlefish, and I just totally fell in
love with them, cause they're soweird.
They're so weird.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
They're like aliens that live on earth.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
They really are.
Like just when you think theycan't get weird, or they do,
they're so weird And I just wasfascinated So I decided I wanted
to do my doctorate studyingcephalopods.
So I found the lab that Ieventually made my home, which
studied squid biomechanics,moved out to the coast And I
(18:14):
spent about five years on a boatcollecting squid and running
kind of like a hunger games typesituation with the squid to
figure out like what kind ofWere in their favor?
The odds were often not in theirfavor, unfortunately.
I was testing what kind ofsensory modalities they use when
(18:39):
they are trying to avoidpredators, so I would have them
in a tank with flounder, whichare surprisingly aggressive fish
.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
Oh, it's not like the little mermaid.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
No, I mean first of all, we know that little mermaid
fish is not a flounder.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
But secondly Okay, whoops.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
I mean they call it flounder, but I'm pretty sure
that's not a flounder.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
I'm sorry, I don't know anything about fish, I just
go.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
It tells me Flounder are kind of ugly in a cute way.
They're flat fish and theirfaces are actually all on one
side of their body.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
Yeah, so when they're little they look like normal
fish and then, as they grow,their face actually shifts like
all the way to a different sideof their body.
It's very weird.
That is weird So they don'tlook like they would be
ferocious predators, but they'reactually really fast.
They're pretty gnarly.
I actually had one once jumpout of the tank and bite my hand
(19:44):
.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
Really.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
Yeah, and it drew blood.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
It was pretty good, yeah, so You got flounder at
that point in its life.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
Yeah, no, but I collected a lot of awesome data
and was able to figure out somestuff that we didn't know before
about squid, so that wasexciting.
And then I graduated with mydegree and I took the job at the
university where I am now,which is the Norr-Ryne
University.
(20:15):
We do not have squid out herein Western North Carolina.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
Oh really.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
No squid, no squid.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
You're not close to the ocean.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
if you're on the ocean, I'm about four and a half
five hours away from the ocean.
My husband's a surfer, so hereminds me often.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
Sad fate.
Speaker 3 (20:35):
Far away.
We are from the beach, so whenI got here, they had this colony
of African clawed frogs thatwas just hanging out in the
university and they asked me ifI wanted the frogs to do
research And I thought sure, idon't have anything else, i'll
take the frogs.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
So from squid to frogs.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, so I lost focus again.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
No, no, it's great.
I have a quick couple offollow-up questions.
If that's a Yeah, i can'timagine there being more than a
whole bunch of people that arereally studying squid And I was
wondering if you know Dr SarahMeccanulty.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
I do, i do.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
I was like she's the other squid person that I know.
Speaker 3 (21:22):
Yes, no, we actually.
We have been internet friendsfor a long time now.
That's hilarious.
And then we actually we justmet for the first time.
In April.
We were both invited to RiceUniversity to do a panel on
scientists to use social media,and then she came to my
(21:43):
university just like two weekslater.
So we've actually had a lot offace-to-face time now, and I
even got to drive around in hersquid mobile.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Oh, my goodness, i'm gonna have to tell all my
students about this.
You've got a whole bunch ofstreet cred with them because
I've told the kids about thesquid mobile and they have seen
pictures of it.
And I would say now I knowanother scientist who I've
actually been in the squidmobile.
Speaker 3 (22:06):
It is pretty cool, i can't.
I was pretty pumped to bedriving around in that.
Not gonna lie, we walked aroundboth downtown Houston and
Hickory with squid stickers,looking for good places to So
fun Squids.
Yeah, it really was.
She's great.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
That is hilarious.
Before we get into the frogs, Ido have another question.
I love asking scientists this.
So you mentioned you rodehorses.
You were into equestrian.
Yes, Now I could ask you adozen questions from there,
because I love horses too.
But my big one is when you wereyoung, were you infatuated with
(22:44):
science, or did it come later,like from wanting to get back to
study horses?
you found a way to do that inyour undergrad.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
I was pretty animal obsessed as a little kid.
I grew up on Capitol Hill inWashington DC, So my parents
would take me to the NaturalHistory Museum and the zoo.
We were like members of the zooand did the boo at the zoo The
whole dealio.
I have pictures of my momriding on the metro dressed up
(23:18):
as a peacock and I'm a littlepanda bear, Uh-huh.
So my mom's an animal lover andshe was gonna make sure this
happened.
So no, I always I loved animals, I loved science, And I'd say
that something happenedsomewhere between middle school,
(23:45):
high school-ish time, And Ithink this happens to a lot of
girls who are interested inscience.
They get talked down andconvinced that they shouldn't be
there, whether directly orindirectly.
There's enough messaging thatsays like eh, this isn't for you
.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
That's stupid.
I'm sorry that happened to you.
I tell all my female studentsthat they could be the best
scientist in the world, so I'msorry, absolutely.
It is so true.
I'm sorry that happened to you.
Speaker 3 (24:15):
I can't even think of a direct time it happened, but
it clearly did because I lovedscience.
And then by the time I got tocollege, i was afraid of a
biology major.
I should have always beenbiology, but I was too afraid of
it.
So, yeah, should have beenthere all along.
(24:37):
Glad I'm back, for sure.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
There you go.
Okay, i do have a questionabout you with horses.
What type of equestrian stuffdid you do, like jumping or like
the dressage?
Speaker 3 (24:49):
Yeah, I grew up doing inventing and then became a
pretty serious dressagecompetitor throughout college.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
Okay, that's awesome.
Speaker 3 (25:01):
Yeah, so I still actually have a horse.
She's on my farm now.
I got her 16 years ago, yeah, ithink, when I was just
finishing up college just alittle baby horse and trained
her up while I was in graduateschool and tried to compete
while I was getting my PhD.
(25:22):
That was really hard, yeah, oh,but yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
Horses are so neat and surprisingly long lived too.
Speaker 3 (25:30):
Yeah, i feel like I should knock on some wood.
She's 21 now and she's justhanging out enjoying her life.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
That's awesome.
Okay, so back to frogs.
Somebody came along with a tubof frogs and they're hey, doc,
do you need these frogs?
And then you're like sure, idon't know what happened.
Speaker 3 (25:53):
Yeah, that's basically how it went In our
introductory biology class.
They end up breeding thesefrogs every year and then
watching the eggs and thetadpoles as they go through
development.
So then at the end of the yearthey have all these frogs.
So yeah, i was just like sureI'll take a look at these frogs,
(26:17):
and it turns out they are very,very cool.
They have a bit of a story thatgoes with them.
If we have time for a frogstory, You go.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
I'm just so happy to listen.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
Okay, so they're African clawed frogs, so they're
from Africa.
They have these weird littleblack claws on their hind legs,
which is unusual for anamphibian, and they are now a
super invasive species aroundthe world.
I know, yeah, it's because itwas discovered that if you
(27:01):
inject them with urine, theywill release eggs if that person
is pregnant.
So they were actually theoriginal pregnancy tests.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
No, is that?
are you being sarcastic, or isthat real?
Speaker 3 (27:21):
That's very real.
Yeah, so they were the originalpregnancy tests and, like up
through the 60s, labs andhospitals just had stocks of
these frogs everywhere.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
They were weird.
Speaker 3 (27:34):
And yeah, and it was cool because it was the first
before that you could do rats orrabbits, but you had to dissect
them and it was like a wholebig deal.
The frogs would just releaseeggs.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
I can't believe this.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
Yeah, if you're pregnant.
So yeah, up into the 60s, untilnow, like the stick tests, yep,
that we use.
that was the frogs, and they'realso very good escape artists.
So they were getting out oflabs and things And I can attest
to this.
I don't know how they escaped.
(28:10):
They're fully aquatic So theyshouldn't be able to be as
stealthy as they are, but they.
I've definitely lost a fewfrogs.
I don't know where they went.
One day I'm going to find themall dried up in a corner or
something.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
but They're clearly like the penguins of Madagascar
When you're not looking, they'repulling shenanigans and running
schematics.
Speaker 3 (28:31):
Yeah, yeah, no, truly .
So these frogs were all overthe world starting to escape and
then people were just gettingdone with them and releasing
them everywhere And they arereally, really good at being an
invasive species because theylive for like 20 years and
they'll eat anything.
(28:52):
They're super resistant, liketemperature changes all the
things that usually gets anamphibian.
These guys are fine with.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
Frogs.
They're super susceptible tochanges in temperature and pH.
And all of that Right.
Speaker 3 (29:06):
All of that, but these ones are pretty hardy.
And there's another thing thatamphibians right now are being
really affected by.
It's this fungus calledKitchred.
And yeah, have you heard ofthis?
Speaker 2 (29:21):
I talked to John Nathan Colby, who studies some
frogs, and he mentioned theKitchred fungus.
Speaker 3 (29:26):
It's super dangerous.
It's super dangerous.
It gets in their skin and sincetheir skin is so fragile and
permeable, it just like it justbranches out all throughout
their skin and kills the animal.
The African clawed frogsactually don't get it.
They have a mucus on their skinthat has antimicrobial
(29:49):
properties and they can't get it, But they actually.
Now researchers are starting tothink that the African clawed
frogs are the ones that gave itto other amphibians.
They had this protectivemechanism in the mucus because
they were exposed to it in theirnatural environments, So then
(30:10):
that exposure became widespreadwhen they were released
everywhere else.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
And this is just all the you're just studying,
looking at little like all ofthe different physiology aspects
of these frogs when you weregiven the tub with them.
Speaker 3 (30:25):
Yeah, i was.
I'm focusing on what sensorymodalities they use to find
their prey.
So kind of the opposite of whatI did with the squid, but both
of these animals.
I was focused in on a sensorysystem called the lateral line
system, and this is a literalline of hair cells like little
(30:48):
itsy bitsy, microscopic whiskersthat are on their body and help
them to feel the way that watermoves around them, so they can
feel if something is swimmingtowards them quickly or
something is trying to swim awayfrom them.
And the African clawed frogsare unique because most frogs
get rid of this feature whenthey become full grown frogs,
(31:13):
but the African clawed frogsretain it.
So I was interested in howthey're using this to find their
prey, knowing that they eateverything.
And I've been chatting casuallywith some folks in Washington
state, where they just declaredthe most dangerous invasive
species in Washington state,talking about like how we could
(31:36):
potentially tap into thesedifferent sensory modalities in
order to help controlpopulations.
So we'll see.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
Does it give them an advantage having this, or is
that not?
are you still looking at that?
You're still.
That's a question you've yet toanswer.
Speaker 3 (31:53):
I.
It's a question I've yet toanswer.
I think surely it does, and nowit's just a matter of figuring
out what and how.
I'm pretty sure their vision isabsolute garbage.
They do not seem to.
They're very derpy animals LikeI'll be in there messing with
(32:14):
their tanks for a solid 10minutes and then, out of nowhere
, they'll suddenly notice thatI'm there and freak out.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
I don't know why that was so funny.
Speaker 3 (32:24):
Yeah, so in terms of what's going on with them,
that's a little tough to know.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
That is a clip I can clip for an ad.
I'm pretty sure their vision isabsolute garbage.
I got tears coming out of thecenter of my eye.
I just Google image them.
They do kind of look likethey're oddballs.
They also think they are justweird looking bulbousy things.
Speaker 3 (32:52):
Yep, they also don't have the frog tongue that you
think about, the one that canextend out and grab prey and
just have a little tongue.
So when they eat food, theyhave to stuff it in their mouths
with their hands.
Oh my goodness.
Speaker 2 (33:08):
But everything else clearly works great on them
because they're so good atsurviving.
Speaker 3 (33:12):
They're doing just fine Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
They.
you know what, if you, some ofour listeners, play Dungeons and
Dragons and they appreciatethis joke, it's like the frog
rolled a three on charisma andan 18 on Constitution.
Speaker 3 (33:26):
Yeah, fair enough, it's.
Yeah, you're not wrong Oh mygoodness, okay, okay.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
I got wiped tears out of my eyes.
So, all right, that's the frogs.
We got the frog story done.
That's awesome.
Please, google image thesefrogs, folks, the African,
african clawed frog.
Not when you're driving, buttake a look at these, these
weirdo looking frogs.
Then you study chimpanzees aswell.
Speaker 3 (33:55):
A little bit.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
So, but yeah, nobody came by with a box of
chimpanzees and said, hey, doyou want these as well?
Speaker 3 (34:03):
Not quite Okay, and if anybody ever does come to you
with a box of chimpanzee kids,you should say no, thank you and
contact a zoo because theydon't make great pets.
No, i have been working withthe North Carolina Zoo.
I've done two differentresearch projects with them that
(34:26):
were really run by students,where I got the project
connected and started and Iworked with them on designing it
, but they were the ones whowere actually there collecting
all of the data.
So the chimpanzee project wasthe first one that I did there
with a student named Lonnie Fox,and the North Carolina Zoo has
(34:51):
kind of a unique setup when itcomes to chimpanzees.
I'll say the North Carolina Zoois absolutely incredible.
If you ever get a chance tovisit, it is literally the
largest zoo in the world.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
Really.
Speaker 3 (35:06):
Yes, acreage wise.
It's the kind of zoo wherepeople get upset because they
can't see the animals, becausethey're too far away.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
Which is great.
Oh yeah, oh, yeah Okay.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
Yeah, it's great for the animals.
So they're chimpanzees.
They have these two differenttroops that they end up kind of
rotating out and like a fewmembers go between the two
troops, and one of the troops ismade up of kind of oddballs,
chimps who have had kind ofrough history.
(35:39):
Some were like circus chimps,others were pet chimps but they
didn't ever really learn how tobe a chimp the right way, and
another group that was a littlebit more on par with what you
would expect from a naturaltroop.
So we were studying thedifferences in the behaviors of
those two individuals And thegoal with any of my zoo projects
(36:05):
is to give some informationback to the zoo that they can
hopefully use to betterunderstand what's going on with
their animals, and so I think wefound that there was just some
differences in how they behaved.
There was, remember, kendall's,one of the male chimps.
(36:27):
His favorite thing to do iswhen there's people around.
He likes to run up and smackthe glass as hard as he can, and
I think he thinks it's fun.
I think he'd like seeing howpeople respond.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
Oh, he's trying to freak them out or make them
laugh or something.
Speaker 3 (36:45):
Yeah, i think he is, I think he is Yeah, and so we're
watching for those kinds ofbehaviors.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
You know, i'm not going to lie, if I was stuck in
a zoo, i would constantly bemessing with the people that
were looking at me.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
Yeah, i know I would too.
And then we also have worked ona project with the elephants at
the North Carolina Zoo as well.
That was like the year beforelast.
They have definitely one of thelargest elephant populations in
the US.
Most zoos are actually phasingelephants out of zoos, mostly
(37:26):
because there's been more andmore attention paid to how their
habitat should and shouldn'tlook and whether they should
really be in like the smallurban zoos.
But North Carolina is huge Andthey now, i think, have the
largest number of bull elephantsa boy elephants of any zoo in
(37:50):
the country, and what we werestudying was the behavior of a
brand new bull that they hadjust brought in.
So they had two older ones.
One is actually literally theoldest one in the country And
this new guy was brought in withthe hopes of breeding with some
of the young females that theyhave.
(38:11):
So we were watching how heacclimated and the behaviors of
the females if they were curiousabout getting to know him.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
So that was really fun too, some elephant romance.
Speaker 3 (38:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
Imagine it's very awkward.
I think like teenagers you know, trying to ask each other out
on dates is okay.
Imagine if you're like a 2000plus pound animal.
Yes, yeah Like sliding up thereand saying Hey, what are you
doing on Saturday?
I don't know, we're in a zoo,go away.
(38:48):
Same thing every night.
Speaker 3 (38:51):
Yeah, it was, it was neat, it was really neat.
Speaker 2 (38:54):
Elephants are so freaking huge.
Like were you?
Yes, Like do you ever?
I mean, you've been around them, But every time I see them I'm
just like, Oh my God, they're sogiant things They're, so they
are.
Speaker 3 (39:08):
They are humongous.
Yeah, i've gotten to do freecontacts twice with elephants,
which is where you go in withoutany barrier between you and the
elephant, and they really don'tlet people do that anymore.
Anywhere, even like people whowork with the elephants at the
(39:29):
zoos, there's always a barrier,especially with the African
elephants, because they tend tobe a little more temperamental
than the Asian elephants.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
Yeah, because those they get if they want to smash
you your jelly.
Speaker 3 (39:41):
Yep, absolutely.
There is nothing that is goingto stop them If they get upset.
Speaker 2 (39:47):
Yeah, i think like where we live there's moose, and
that's the biggest thing inCanada is a moose right?
Speaker 3 (39:53):
Moose are humongous too.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
They are giant, but they are not as big, anywhere
near as big as an elephant, andthat is freaky.
Speaker 3 (40:00):
Yes, Yes, Now they are humongous.
I am glad that I did thatbefore.
I really knew better.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
Okay, Yeah, because otherwise you might have been
bit freaked out.
She's like cool, I could havebeen murdered by an elephant
today.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
Awesome.
So one of the questions we askall of our guests to talk about
is a pet story.
Could you share a pet storywith us?
Speaker 3 (40:28):
Pets are a really big part of my life.
My husband and I actually run alittle animal sanctuary, so
that has been that was a goal ofours for the past 10 years that
we were able to really getgoing in like the past five.
So we have two donkeys, myhorse, we have chickens, we have
(40:53):
a ton of cats who, as you yeah,as you have heard do not like
to be separated from me.
So, gosh, i have so manystories, i think so.
My horse, her name is VioletAnd she went super viral on the
(41:18):
internet a few years ago.
Really, yes, she so she's likea big, she's chunky, furry, and
we live in North Carolina And sothere's rarely any weather that
comes by where she needs towear a blanket.
But she's worn blankets all ofher life.
She knows how to do it, she's.
It's a fine thing, but sheprefers not to.
(41:42):
And there was an ice storm thatwas rolling through And I wanted
to just put a layer ofwaterproof coat on her And I put
it on her and she just likeinstantly got down on the ground
and started pouting, and I tooka picture of her and she
literally has her eyeballsrolled in the back of her head,
(42:03):
and so I tweeted it and I saidsomething about like.
I don't even remember what Isaid, but something along the
lines of like having animals isa lot like having kids.
She just played dead because Imade her wear a coat And it like
blew up.
It jumped all the platforms.
(42:24):
She has news articles writtenabout her in Canadian newspapers
, actually, and in the Hindutimes, so she's gotten quite the
reputation for being a littleclown, which is great.
She's a huge personality.
I love her dearly.
That was just that it happenedto be a funny moment.
(42:45):
But also having any animalthing go viral is like it's such
a double one.
Speaker 2 (42:51):
Really, my horse isn't dead.
Speaker 3 (42:53):
Yes, yes, i muted it a long time ago because I found
it.
Okay, people just have so manythings they want to tell me
She's terrified.
How could you do that to her?
I'm like she's fine.
Speaker 1 (43:09):
She's fine.
Speaker 2 (43:12):
Well, people should see what happens when Bunsen
gets wet.
He is not happy when he getswet and he lets me know about it
.
He takes it all out on me.
It doesn't matter, it's myfault.
If he gets wet, yep, he'll havea little hissy fit and he's 100
pounds and he looks like apoddler, so I get it.
Speaker 3 (43:32):
Yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (43:34):
That's pretty cute.
I'm going to bookmark this somaybe I can use it in the ad for
this show.
Sure Well, thanks for sharingyour pet story with us, doc.
The other standard question wehave is a super fact.
It's something that you knowthat when you tell people, it
kind of like blows their mind abit.
You have a super fact you couldshare with us.
Speaker 3 (43:55):
I have so many super facts, my head is just like
overflowing and I've changed mymind probably five times in the
span of talking to you whatsuper fact I wanted to share.
But you know I'm gonna talkabout squid, because They are my
deep love and they are so weird.
(44:15):
So squid can change color justlike an octopus or a cuttlefish,
and They can change your colorin a fraction of a second.
And the reason that they can dothat is Because they change
their color in a completelydifferent way than, say, like a
chameleon does.
So they actually have thousandsof little organs in their skin
(44:39):
called chromatophores, and eachof these little organs is like a
A, a pit of color within a ringof muscle around it, and each
one is attached to its ownseparate nerve So it can Open
and close that color just soincredibly quickly.
(45:00):
So even a chameleon like takesa little bit of time because
it's changing its color througha hormonal pathway.
Speaker 2 (45:06):
Yeah, it's like minutes right to chameleon 30
seconds to two minutes to changecolor.
Speaker 3 (45:11):
Yeah, but squid, cuttlefish, octopus, fractions
of a second, and they can do itin Infinite number of different
patterns, because they do justcan fire each one on the round.
Speaker 2 (45:22):
How does it know?
How does it know, like I'veseen them, am I on the right
track, like they can change partof their body, or yeah, yeah,
how do they know?
Speaker 3 (45:36):
That's a great question.
Like I am assuming that it'sthe same thing is like knowing
when you're Winking your righteye or your left eye.
Speaker 2 (45:46):
Oh my god.
Speaker 3 (45:47):
Like I mean, that's what I would guess.
So I think it's just muscularcontrol.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
Huh, like, like, like flexing your abs, but all over,
yeah, yeah, that is bananas.
That's like next-level superhero stuff.
Speaker 3 (46:02):
It is.
It is in fact, they're beingstudied for some like military
technology, to be like how couldwe use this for Climaclodge?
Speaker 2 (46:10):
right next thing we need is squid soldiers, yeah.
Speaker 3 (46:15):
Or squid suits.
At least that'd be fun.
Speaker 2 (46:18):
Okay Yeah, that's a little more ethical.
Speaker 3 (46:22):
Hmm.
Speaker 2 (46:23):
So squid or octopus, you're more on team squid.
Speaker 3 (46:27):
Um, yeah, because that's, that's the critter that
I have spent so much time with.
I mean, octopuses are reallyreally stinking cool.
I mean I would be more thanhappy to study some octopus
behavior.
For sure I wanted to.
They are actually really hardto keep in captivity.
They're great escape artists,kind of like my African frogs,
(46:51):
um, but you need to like ducttape the tops to their tanks on
and if there's any kind offiltration valves You need to
make sure it's blocked becausethey'll just get out.
Speaker 2 (47:01):
It's just like no mission impossible themselves
out.
Speaker 3 (47:04):
They will, they will and they can fit through
anything that if they can fittheir beak.
So where their mouth is, theyhave a beak, just like a parrot.
If they can fit their beakthrough it, they can fit their
entire body through it.
Speaker 2 (47:17):
Squid and octopus.
I tell you, it's like Evolutionwent one way and they went the
other and it just kept gettingweirder and kept working.
Speaker 3 (47:26):
Yeah, it worked.
They've been around for like500 million years.
Speaker 2 (47:31):
Yeah, they're.
I mean I can't say, if it ain'tbroke, don't fix it, because
they've been like continuouslychanging for the you know along
the way, but like the Weirdness,apparently works to keep you
Yeah it does.
What a great super fact.
Chromatophores.
Speaker 3 (47:48):
Chromatophores can you use?
Speaker 2 (47:49):
that in scrabble?
Yeah, i think somebody willcall challenge, though, but we
can just use this podcast asevidence.
Speaker 3 (47:55):
Yeah, let them call challenge, It's a real word.
Speaker 2 (48:00):
So the last question of the podcast, that I'm sad
we're coming to the end, but weask our guests to share a little
bit about themselves like ahobby or cause, and you already
mentioned that.
You had a hinted at it, but Ithink you wanted to talk about
your animal sanctuary.
Speaker 3 (48:16):
Yeah, so we have About ten acres where again we
have these critters.
All of them, except for thehorse, came from some kind of an
unfortunate Circumstance beforethe horse.
I've had her for 16 years, soshe just she tolerated me for
this long and that's herunfortunate circumstance.
(48:37):
So now she gets to just retireand chill out.
But we, we also try to grow asmuch food as we can, and some
years that is more than otherslike we really want to be able
to be good stewards of the earthand Take care of this potted
land that we have.
(48:58):
So we've plotted, we've we'veplanted a lot of fruit trees, we
grow strawberries andraspberries, we have squash and
tomatoes, cucumbers all cookingout there right now.
And since I've learned, sincewe moved here, i've learned how
to can and preserve food.
So I do spend a lot of timeevery year doing that.
(49:20):
And then I'd like to giveThat's my Christmas gifts now as
homemade pickles and jelliesand jams.
It's fun, it's fun.
So we're about to get into yourcanning season Again.
I've just I have two big bagsof strawberries I just collected
, so it's about jam time.
Speaker 2 (49:41):
Very good.
Could you give a rundown ofsome of the animals that you
have?
Speaker 3 (49:44):
Yeah, sure.
So violet is my silly horse.
We have Rosie, who is aminiature donkey.
Speaker 2 (49:53):
Oh my goodness, miniature donkey.
Speaker 3 (49:56):
Oh, she's ridiculous.
She's so cute and she's so muchtrouble.
She's really really smart andif there is a way for her to be
naughty She's gonna take it.
She we actually last year hadto put brand new, nice fencing
up around the property because Ihad I had some pretty shady
fencing up before, but it workedUntil she figured out that it
(50:20):
didn't really work.
And then she took her buddyJude on an adventure In the dark
of night to our neighbor'sproperty.
If the, if the barn doors opena little bit, she will be in
there eating all the food.
She's just, she's a naughtylittle thing.
And she came before we got her.
(50:40):
She was living with some goats.
An old farmer just had her outwith some goats And I don't
think she'd ever seen anotherdonkey, at least not since she
was taken from her mom.
And then we have Jude, who Isthe newest resident, got her
about a year and a half ago andshe was actually Add a kill pen
(51:02):
on her way to a slaughterhouseAnd was pulled as a rescue.
And she, she's a youngster,she's only.
I Guess she's about four now.
She was three when I broughther to the farm.
Rosie's probably 12ish,although you wouldn't know and
(51:22):
She is very sweet and very, veryshy She.
If you don't approach her,she'll come up to you and ask
for snuggles in no time.
If you approach her, she'sLittle put off by that, but
she's like the sweetest and sheloves our cats.
She just wants to type ananimal.
Speaker 2 (51:43):
is she?
Jude is a donkey, okay.
Speaker 3 (51:46):
Yeah, yes, she's a standard donkey, so not not as
tiny, but it's still very cute,yeah.
And then cat wise, the one whohas been a booger this evening,
that is strummer.
Oh, i guess he's actually thenewest resident.
He came in the fall.
He was found under a bush witha super broken leg.
(52:10):
Oh no, yeah, like it was sobadly broken that that's thought
we should just amputate it.
But then we also found out hehas a really bad heart murmur.
So we didn't want to do thesurgery And I'm glad we didn't,
because it actually healed uppretty decently.
For what it was.
He's kind of funny when he runslike gets all crooked and kind
(52:31):
of looks like a monkey, butthat's okay.
So, yeah.
And then we have the wholeoutdoor crew of cats, who mostly
have just shown up over timeand Now chill out here, and
that's fine.
They help with rodents and Igive them some treats.
Speaker 2 (52:52):
Nice, what a menagerie of amazing animals.
Speaker 3 (52:55):
Yeah, yeah, and we have right now just one chicken,
and her and one of the cats arebest friends, nice.
Speaker 2 (53:04):
Well, doc, we're at the end of our talk.
Thank you so much for being aguest on the science podcast
today.
Thank you for inviting so funand so informative.
Can people follow you on socialmedia?
I know I'm I'm like tellingpeople about these pictures on
your.
Yeah, where can people find youon social media?
Speaker 3 (53:22):
I am at biology Carly on Twitter and At biology Carly
on tiktok, and I'm the littlebiologist on Instagram.
Speaker 2 (53:34):
Awesome.
We'll make sure those links arein the show notes So everybody
can give you a follow and seewhat you're up to.
Which are you most active on?
Speaker 3 (53:42):
I should ask most active on Twitter, although I'm
trying to do.
I'm trying to do more tiktoks.
I don't actually love doing it,but people seem to like seeing
them, so I'm trying to do moretiktoks And putting those both
(54:02):
honestly on Instagram as well.
So, hmm, but Twitter is whereyou're gonna get the most Recent
stupid thing that comes to mymind.
Speaker 2 (54:12):
Bunsen and beaker just followed you on tiktok
sweet.
Well, again, it was a treattalking to you and thanks for
giving up your time.
Speaker 3 (54:21):
Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 2 (54:23):
We are proud to have bark and beyond supply comm now
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Bark and beyond supply comm isa small, family owned company
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they sell toys and treats and awhole bunch of other goodies.
Skip the big box stores andcheck out the amazing deals and
(54:47):
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Skip the big box stores.
How about the little guy?
Well, that's the end of thisweek's show.
(55:09):
No family section.
Adam is at the Calgary stampedeWith the Red Deer Royals
marching band, i think.
As I'm saying this, they arePracticing in preparation for
the Calgary stampede parade.
We're very proud of him.
We saw him compete yesterday inthe show band showdown Which
(55:29):
was in McMahon Stadium inCalgary, so he'll be back next
week.
I want to thank Dr Carly York,who talked to us in the ask an
expert section.
I also.
I also want to give a shout outto the top dogs, that is, the
top tier of our community, thepop-up.
If you want to support the show, keep it free and Hear your
(55:51):
name and get all the perks thatcomes with it.
Sign up in the show notes tothe pop-up.
They'll be a link there.
All right, chris, take it away.
Speaker 1 (56:00):
Alicia Stanley, the herd, wendy, diane Mason and
Luke Linda, sherry, tracyHalberg, carol McDonald, helen
Chin, elizabeth bourgeois, peggyMcKeel, mary La Magna writer,
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