March 14, 2025 • 21 mins
Facing the harsh reality of today's real estate and mortgage landscape requires honest self-assessment. The statistics are staggering—70% of licensed realtors didn't close a single deal last year, while only 6% truly thrived. On the mortgage side, just 4% of loan officers closed over $20 million, with more than half closing fewer than six loans all year. These numbers reflect an unprecedented industry contraction that's pushing professionals to a critical decision point.
"Quitting isn't failure and staying isn't success. It's about making the best decision for your future." This powerful perspective forms the cornerstone of our discussion about whether to persist or pivot in challenging markets. For those considering staying, the benefits are substantial: increased credibility from surviving tough times, competitive advantage through experience, and opportunities to capture market share as others exit. The professionals who view current challenges as opportunities rather than obstacles are positioning themselves to thrive when others merely survive.
However, we also explore valid reasons why leaving might be the right choice. If you've lost your passion and can't seem to reignite it, clients will sense your diminished enthusiasm. If you're unwilling to adapt to technological advancements or evolving strategies, you'll likely fall behind regardless of experience. Perhaps most importantly, if your career no longer aligns with your personal goals, health needs, or family priorities, there's no shame in seeking a better fit elsewhere.
The key question isn't whether to stay or go—it's whether your work energizes or depletes you. Does it align with the life you want to create? Does it still bring you joy? Life is simply too short to persist in a career that consistently drains your energy and conflicts with your values. Whether you choose to innovate and adapt within the industry or pursue a completely different path, make that decision intentionally rather than defaulting to comfort or fear.
What's your experience with the current market? Have you questioned your place in the industry? We'd love to hear your thoughts and help you navigate this challenging crossroad.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It is no secret that over the past few years, the
mortgage industry, the realestate industry, has gotten
really, really hard.
There's been what we would callprobably a mass exodus in both
industries, and if you've eventhought about it, chances are
you have.
If you've even thought about isthis still for me?
Do I still belong in thisindustry?
(00:20):
If that's you, then thisepisode is for you.
This is the Secret SaucePodcast with Chad Treese and
Lacey Moores, where we want tohelp people build big businesses
and live big lives, and wethink that there's not a magic
bullet for doing that, but thereis a secret sauce.
So a lot of these are going tobe just the ingredients that can
help you make up a secret sauceto build a big business and
(00:41):
live a big life.
Let's get into it.
Welcome back everybody to theSecret Sauce Podcast.
I'm Chad Treese here, as always, with my lovely co-host, lacey
Morris.
How are you, lacey?
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Good, I'm excited.
I am too.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
I am too.
So we're talking today a littlebit about just a mass exodus in
both industries.
Real estate, mortgage Thingshave gotten really hard the last
few years.
There's tons of stats out thereof how many people aren't doing
business, how little businesspeople are doing.
It's a lot of doom and gloom.
There's a lot of peoplewondering am I still in love
with this?
Should I still be doing thisthing?
And so I think we want to breakit down today like reasons to
(01:17):
stay, just to check in withyourself, reasons to stay,
reasons maybe possibly to go.
I don't know, know, we may talkabout that, but um is it
quitting time is it quittingtime?
Speaker 2 (01:26):
yeah, every time I hear that uh, quitting time, I
think of keith whitley song andI just want to sing it right now
, but I'll save everybodybecause it's bad for those
listening uh, she's made uslisten to it in the in the
studio here, um so fun a fewtimes and she keeps singing it.
She won't sing it on air, butshe's singing 1985 is when this
song by Keith Whitley came out.
And is it quitting time?
Um, and I just like the songmyself, but, um, yeah, the
(01:49):
episode really today is is is it?
And?
And really I just want to sayit might be okay either way.
Right, sure, like we're notgoing to talk about you're a
loser if you quit or you're onlyyou're, you know all that stuff
.
Like we want to talk about itboth ways.
I think when we go through this, um, and just I mean you
already said you're, you knowall that stuff.
Like we want to talk about itboth ways, I think when we go
through this, and just I meanyou already said like we're in a
challenging market.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
We have been for a while, and I don't think it's
going to get, I don't thinkanything's coming to save us.
Yeah Right, sure, it's going tobe difficult for a while, sure.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Well, you and I have mortgage for a long time.
We both went through themortgage meltdown and went
through all of that, so we'vebeen through some hard markets
and we've seen some really greatmarkets come back and whatnot.
And this has been hard for alldifferent reasons than it was
hard back in 08 and 09 andwhatnot completely different
reasons.
But I mean, even our owner willsay this is way harder than it
was back in 2008, 2009, whichwhen he said that to me the
first time I was like didn'tthink it was, but once he
started throwing all the statsand stuff around, it really is.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
We've just gotten better, so like that's why it?
I think it is harder now.
We don't feel it quite as muchbecause we sharpened our ax in
2008, when that happened livethrough that.
Learn from it.
So the second time around italways does feel a little bit
easier, but I would agree thatit's statistically it is harder.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Yeah, so let's talk about statistics, and I brought
this just so I can read it, so Idon't mess it up because I'm
known for messing up statistics.
But on the real estate side, in2024, 70% of all licensed
realtors didn't close a deal 70%.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
70%.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
So now we're down to 30.
And out of the 30 that did, 30%of them, I'm sorry 30 did.
And out of the 30%, 20% of themclosed less than 10
transactions all year.
4% of the remaining 10% closedenough just to cover their dues
and their expenses, which meanseverything else was done by only
(03:47):
six percent so six percentthrived.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Basically exactly 94 either.
Just got by jack you know whatyeah it's.
It's a little scary, but italso is like it's again.
It's kind of doing doom andgloom, but there is excitement.
Excitement here there is, thereis opportunity with this.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
So there's a lot of opportunity and that that's what
we're going to kind of talkthrough.
And it really depends on whenyou hear those things where your
heart goes Like some people getexcited and see it as great
opportunity and some people arelike, oh, not this again.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
Right.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
I don't want to do this again and it's it's really
self-reflection of when you hearsome of this stuff.
Where do you, what do you feel?
You know, where do you go withthat?
On the loan officer side, 4% ofall loan officers in 2024
closed 20 million or more, and20 million used to be not that
much right, like if we go backand we think about the last two,
(04:41):
three, four years, and only 4%and over 50% of loan officers
didn't even close six loans allyear.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
Wow, it's crazy, but even in good markets there's
always that 90-10 rule or 80-20rule?
But now it's even further ondisplay, it is For sure.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
There's definitely.
You can see that separation,separation totally the
differential, the gap, for sure,um, yeah, I think it, it
totally is fine.
Um, so, you know, we've been inthe shrinking industry and
shrinking industry obviouslydoes all kinds of things um to
us emotionally, obviously doesall kinds of things to us
(05:25):
emotionally.
And what are we looking forhere?
Let's talk about some reasonswhy people should stay.
What are some benefits tostaying in a shrinking market?
What are some things that thegood right Like where, if you
can, I mean when we went,started going through this, our
coaching program said made usprint off a big sheet that said
(05:47):
outlast everyone.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
Hat.
Yeah, I got a hat that saysoutlast the temporary.
Yeah, yeah, outlast everyone.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
It was our strategy, and it was behind my computers
the whole time, and it'ssomething I had to focus on.
All the time was just outlast.
Now, when we did that, wedidn't think we'd be outlasting
for this long, you know, wedidn't think it would last this
long, but now we're starting toget used to it.
Right, we're starting to getused to that this is more the
norm than what we ever thought.
So the thing is, though, youknow, when you go through these
(06:15):
struggles we just talked aboutus going through 08 and 09, and
even, and going through this now, what did that do Like?
What do you think that did foryou, as a mortgage professional,
being able to do that?
What does it do for you now?
Speaker 1 (06:28):
Well, it gives you definitely that, not just hope,
but that confidence that you canthrive in that market that you
can continue to invest inyourself, continue to get better
, continue to pour into people.
And there's still businessbeing done.
It's being done by less people,but why not?
Why not?
Why aren't you in that percentof people right that are doing
(06:51):
it right well?
Speaker 2 (06:51):
when you go through something like this and maybe
you didn't go through it like wedid back in 08 09 because you
weren't in the business thatlong, but it gives you more
credibility, right, like peopletrust you more once you survive
hard times like that and whenyou and I I were talking about
it, you brought up like your youknow.
When you talk to yourgrandparents about the Great
Depression, you know and and howthey survived that.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
And how it changed their worldview.
Right Like like oh, they saveddifferently, they did different
things.
So it does shape who you becomeif you survive through that.
It does shape who you become.
There's lessons to be learned.
Become if you survive throughthat.
It does shape who you become.
There's lessons to be learned,and so I think there's a lot of
lessons out there that for thepeople who choose to stay, who
don't quit, there are a lot oflessons to be learned, a lot of
things that you can take fromthis and really thrive with so
(07:36):
well it increases yourcompetitive advantage.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Right, right, like it .
Just it highlights thecredibility that you have now
and what you know through this.
You know when I go and I'mspeaking with somebody about
their mortgage and I talk about08-09 and kind of what we're
going through now, I'm able todraw that picture, I'm able to
make them understand theeconomics behind it and the
credibility is huge.
You know to them when they areputting their trust into us.
(08:02):
So I like that.
I think the trust piece is justreally important and it allows
us to help grow a market shareand I think that's the biggest
piece right now that you knowpeople who are not going to quit
and people who are going tostay.
This is opportunity.
This is market share time.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
Yeah challenge, like whenever challenges occur, stuff
like this, this is a challenge.
We're in a very challengingmarket.
If you look at that as the,that's the opportunity, that's
where the growth occurs, that'swhere, like, as long as you
don't say stagnant, as long asyou don't sit and wait, I I
that's why I kind of didn't lovethe outlast temporary, because
it outlasting is not an action,it's not taking action.
(08:43):
Yeah, it's kind of resting.
Yeah, hoping that it getsbetter, it's waiting for things.
So I didn't love that tagline.
I'll be completely honest, Idon't wear that hat.
Um it, just it didn't do it forme.
I think that, like, peoplewaiting to outlast this are not
in that percentage of people whoare thriving in it right now,
right Like embrace the challengeand get better, sharpen your
(09:07):
sword, uh like, do all thethings that it takes, grow,
learn, and there is business tobe had.
And there's few people, fewerand fewer people.
People are leaving in droves,right, so go get that business
that they were going to get.
Go get the business that theywere going to close for their
aunt.
They closed maybe one deal ayear, like their aunt now needs
to be served right, like thoseonesie, twosies people that are
(09:27):
getting out people got to goserve those people.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Why not you?
Right, why not you?
And why not be part of thatgroup that's taking more of that
share, more of that marketshare?
Uh, being part of the groupthat we just said.
That is the separation right,like your business is going to
only separate when you do that.
So, um, it's exciting, I meanit's, it's a lot of opportunity.
I had just had a coaching calla couple of days ago and I he
said how's your mindset?
Like where are you doing itright now?
I'm like I am excited, like Ireally really am.
So let's talk about reasonsthat people would quit or, um,
(09:59):
why it might be okay to quit.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Yeah it's.
I think that's worth discussing, Like we're not trying to talk
everybody into staying.
Yeah Right.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Right and and.
Well, let's just address this.
So you know, for me, when Ithink about quitting, I think
about being a loser.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Yeah, that's the connotation right Winners never
quit, quitters never win.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Right and I think about there's just so much
negative around it.
But I want to kind of unpackthat.
I want to talk about, um, whywould there be reasons to quit
Right, and you kind of alreadyhad said it earlier too.
But, man, you know, if you showup every single day, what'd you
say If you show up every singleday and just hate it?
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Yeah, If you wait, I think I think it was even if you
wake up in the morning and youjust dread it, if you're like
what the hell am I doing?
More often than not, then it'sprobably a pretty good sign that
you either need to find thatpassion again, or maybe there's
something else out there thatyou have more passion for, and
that's perfectly okay.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Well, I think you hit it on the head there.
One great reason it might betime to quit is if you have lost
your passion.
Or if you've lost your passion,try to find it and you just
can't anymore.
Because if you're not there, ifyou don't love it, people know
it, people feel it.
It's not enjoyable for you,people don't enjoy working with
you like it.
It, the passion piece I think,is so important and you're not
(11:17):
going to have passion everysingle day, like we got to be
clear that it's not going to bethis, just rainbows and
butterflies every single day inthis industry.
It's stressful, but do youreally thoroughly enjoy what it
is that you're doing?
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Yeah, what's kind of your default setting?
I guess you know what's themajority of the time how do you
feel about it Right?
Speaker 2 (11:35):
And then the other reason would, potentially, if
you're not willing to adapt youknow we are in a ever-changing
environment and if you don'thave the ability or the desire
to adapt and I think that thisis such a big key and most
people don't want to go hereMost people don't want to look
(11:55):
at themselves and decide I mean,even you and I, you know, when
we were talking about doing thispodcast like that's out of our
comfort zone and you know, doesthat instantly stop and say no
to you?
Or are you somebody that'sconstantly looking?
Is there things I could dobetter in my business?
Is there ways for me to grow?
And if there's not, it could betime.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Yeah, or if you're just not passionate about
growing in that thing, right.
It goes back to passion again,like, if you're unwilling to it
probably is because you're notpassionate about it, you don't
love it, like, uh, but yeah, ifyou're unwilling to adapt, um,
we talked about this a littlebit, but when I first got in the
industry we were super youngthere was a gal in the office
who was at the very tail end ofher career and she just uh,
demanded that she would not usetechnology, she would not use a
(12:40):
computer, she wanted to do allof her applications on paper.
And I just remember thinkinglike man, what a dinosaur, right
.
And um, it was definitelyquitting time for her and she
did not last much longer afterthat Her their business was just
like tailing off.
You could tell she was bitterabout the change in the industry
and was not going to adapt toit.
And now I look at it and I'mlike man, we're the kind of
(13:00):
those dinosaurs, being 23 yearsin the business.
So now it's like I guess theequivalent of that is like that
we're not, like don't want to godo TikTok dances right, you
know, to get business.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
I don't either I probably.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
I mean maybe that's, maybe that's that version of
that for me is like okay, Idon't think that I need to do
that, but it's a very goodreminder to think of that and be
like do I want to be her?
Speaker 2 (13:22):
yeah um, because this industry will push you out
pretty fast yeah, well, it'sever-changing and I mean, you
got to be able to adapt tomarketing strategies, to
technology, all that kind ofstuff that's going on out there.
And if you're not, if you meanif you're relying on outdated
strategies like cold calling,you know only, I'm not saying
that's not a bad thing, there'ssometimes that we do cold
calling but if you haven't, youknow, changed that approach,
(13:47):
yeah, you're gonna be left inand you know, say that the
dinosaur.
And yeah, I laugh at thatbecause I think naturally that's
what happens.
You're like we can't help that,um, and it's funny.
Now, as you become more of adinosaur, you look back and
you're like, oh, now, now Iunderstand why they acted that
way, um, but it doesn't alwaysmake it right.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Most of the time it doesn't make it right yeah.
Most of the time, like thatfear of that change, uh, is what
eventually will push you out?
You've you lose that passionyou like, dig your heels in on
something, your business fallsoff of a cliff because of it,
and like you're not just makingthe decision that it's quitting
time, like the business has kindof quit you.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
Well, let's talk.
So you and I both get coachedby our owner, todd, and he and
he shared this with both you andI about his time with Alex.
Yeah, this blew me away I don'tknow, take it off and all.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
Well, yeah, so he, Alex Ramosi right, is a big time
like influencer and also likebusiness guru.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Buys a bunch of businesses, help people invest
in their businesses.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Worth many, many, many millions.
Yes, right, and Todd's networth is about double his, and
he's also about double in age, Ithink.
So conventional wisdom wouldtell you that.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
Todd probably wouldn't be seeking advice from
Alex.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
Hermosi, wisdom or pride.
Well, conventional, just likethe conventional wisdom Thought
process.
Like most people would be like,yeah, he's probably not going to
hit him up for what he's doing,todd being the very smart
businessman that he is.
And the lesson here is like donot overlook people that are
younger than you, that have lessthan you.
If they're doing something well, take note of that.
You can learn.
(15:29):
And he actually paid a buttloadof money to go learn from him,
not just like call him up andask him for advice.
He paid a buttload of money togo be in the crowd and learn
from him and he doesn't needthat advice.
Like legitimately, he couldretire yesterday right, but he's
just got on this likerelentless pursuit of
improvement and so like that'snot everybody, I get that, but
(15:51):
like that's a very extremeexample.
But it was a great reminder forme that like man check my ego.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
And that's a great example.
Like so somebody that you, youknow you just never would think
that, and if he's willing to dothat, then why wouldn't I like?
Shame on me for not.
You know what I mean For fornot looking at different areas
that I can, people, I can learnfrom younger people how to adapt
what's working right now.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
Yeah, Never think that, you know at all.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
Yeah Right, it was really really good.
He's, he's amazing.
But yeah, I do think that youknow we have to.
Um, you know, if you'resomebody that is not willing to
change, or heck, even waitingfor the old market to come back,
yeah Right, Just sit and waitand thinking that it's going to
come back, like if that's whoyou are and you're not, like
might be time.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
Yeah, I mean I don't know if it needs any more
explanation than that, butabsolutely One hundred percent,
if you're just waiting forthings to get better, like that
is not a good place to be andlike you're not passionate about
that.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
OK.
So another reason you mightwant to quit and I love this,
this one and is you know what ifthe industry no longer aligns
with your personal goals, likeif you're, if you no longer your
life goals, your family goals,your health goals and I think
people don't stop enough tothink about that, like if it no
(17:11):
longer aligns, and I thinkpeople don't stop enough to
think about that, like if it nolonger aligns, maybe it is
quitting time.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Yeah, I mean a hundred percent agree with that.
I think it still goes back tolike, if you wake up and you
question, should I be doing thisthing, then like, yeah, part of
that's passion.
Another one is like thisdoesn't feel authentic to me
anymore.
This doesn't feel like you'renot going to have passion for it
.
I think that those go hand inhand.
(17:37):
You're not gonna have passionfor it if your values have
shifted a little bit and you,like a good example, would be
like you want to be at everyevent with your kids, you want
to pick them up from school, youwant to be able to drop them
off, you want to do, like, everylittle thing you may not be
able to do, what this jobentails as a full-time gig, to
treat it like a business.
For some people they can.
(17:57):
They can do all those things.
For other people they can't,and you need to recognize that
and that's okay.
Yeah, if it's totally notaligned with what you envision
for your life, then get the heckout and go do something that
you love, something you getexcited about every day.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
And that would fit into that schedule or your
health or whatever it is.
You know, if this industry isis hard because of the ups and
downs and the stress and it'scausing you health issues yeah,
if you got heart issues, this isnot.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
This industry is not for the faint of heart, right?
Speaker 2 (18:24):
so that's a great example actually or you know
what, if you're only staying inthe industry out of habit, you
know because you don't know whatthat other future could be you
don't know any different I'veheard so many people.
I've done it for 20 years.
I might as well just keep doingit.
Um, if that's the only reasonin all these other things that
we've talked about, you're likeis that's resonating with you,
(18:45):
like it might be time.
I wanted to read this and Iwrote this down.
I heard this and I just it's'sreally, really good and I want
to share it.
Quitting isn't failure andstaying isn't success.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
It's about making the best decision for your future.
Yeah, when you read that thefirst time, I think I had you
read it again because it's it'sa super, it is super powerful.
Can you read it again?
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Yeah, I can it just yeah, it's so different than
anything I've ever wrapped mybrain around with quitting.
Yeah, read it again Quittingisn't failure and staying isn't
success.
It's about making the bestdecision for your future.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Yeah, beautiful, beautifully said, and I think
that that's probably where wecan wrap this episode.
Just remember that it isabsolutely not a failure If this
is no longer aligned with allof the things that you love,
like if this, if you don't loveit anymore and you can't get to
a place where you love it, uh,or you can't get to a place
where it brings you joy or addsenergy.
(19:41):
I think for me it's a big likedoes it add energy or does it
take energy?
Does it suck energy from me?
If the answer to that questionis does this suck energy from
you every day or most days, thendon't.
It is fine to go find somethingelse that does give you more
energy.
Life is too short to live alife that is not, by design,
(20:01):
what you want right, so.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
So reflect on your goals and your passion and your
willingness right to adapt, andif it's not like, it's okay.
Yeah, and we'd love.
We'd love to chat with you.
You, if you guys ever want totalk through this or anything
like that chat, I both would bemore than willing to get on a
call or whatever and talkthrough either either side of
this, because there's no rightor wrong to it.
But it is just reallyreflecting on who.
(20:26):
That is, who you are and whatyou're wanting out of the rest
of the time that you have here.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Absolutely Lacey.
Great, great topic.
I'm glad you brought it upbecause I don't think I would
have thought of it.
But man, I'm glad we talkedabout it.
Hopefully everybody listeninggot something from it as well,
If you did share it withsomebody, or like take a, take a
(20:52):
snapshot, take a screenshot andtag us in it.
Whatever it is, however, youcan share it with somebody.
We would love, love it, butwe're glad you were here.
We'll see you soon.
Thanks, guys, thanks.
It is no secret that over the past few years, the
mortgage industry, the realestate industry, has gotten
really, really hard.
There's been what we would callprobably a mass exodus in both
industries, and if you've eventhought about it, chances are
you have.
If you've even thought about isthis still for me?
Do I still belong in thisindustry?
(00:20):
If that's you, then thisepisode is for you.
This is the Secret SaucePodcast with Chad Treese and
Lacey Moores, where we want tohelp people build big businesses
and live big lives, and wethink that there's not a magic
bullet for doing that, but thereis a secret sauce.
So a lot of these are going tobe just the ingredients that can
help you make up a secret sauceto build a big business and
(00:41):
live a big life.
Let's get into it.
Welcome back everybody to theSecret Sauce Podcast.
I'm Chad Treese here, as always, with my lovely co-host, lacey
Morris.
How are you, lacey?
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Good, I'm excited.
I am too.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
I am too.
So we're talking today a littlebit about just a mass exodus in
both industries.
Real estate, mortgage Thingshave gotten really hard the last
few years.
There's tons of stats out thereof how many people aren't doing
business, how little businesspeople are doing.
It's a lot of doom and gloom.
There's a lot of peoplewondering am I still in love
with this?
Should I still be doing thisthing?
And so I think we want to breakit down today like reasons to
(01:17):
stay, just to check in withyourself, reasons to stay,
reasons maybe possibly to go.
I don't know, know, we may talkabout that, but um is it
quitting time is it quittingtime?
Speaker 2 (01:26):
yeah, every time I hear that uh, quitting time, I
think of keith whitley song andI just want to sing it right now
, but I'll save everybodybecause it's bad for those
listening uh, she's made uslisten to it in the in the
studio here, um so fun a fewtimes and she keeps singing it.
She won't sing it on air, butshe's singing 1985 is when this
song by Keith Whitley came out.
And is it quitting time?
Um, and I just like the songmyself, but, um, yeah, the
(01:49):
episode really today is is is it?
And?
And really I just want to sayit might be okay either way.
Right, sure, like we're notgoing to talk about you're a
loser if you quit or you're onlyyou're, you know all that stuff
.
Like we want to talk about itboth ways.
I think when we go through this, um, and just I mean you
already said you're, you knowall that stuff.
Like we want to talk about itboth ways, I think when we go
through this, and just I meanyou already said like we're in a
challenging market.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
We have been for a while, and I don't think it's
going to get, I don't thinkanything's coming to save us.
Yeah Right, sure, it's going tobe difficult for a while, sure.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Well, you and I have mortgage for a long time.
We both went through themortgage meltdown and went
through all of that, so we'vebeen through some hard markets
and we've seen some really greatmarkets come back and whatnot.
And this has been hard for alldifferent reasons than it was
hard back in 08 and 09 andwhatnot completely different
reasons.
But I mean, even our owner willsay this is way harder than it
was back in 2008, 2009, whichwhen he said that to me the
first time I was like didn'tthink it was, but once he
started throwing all the statsand stuff around, it really is.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
We've just gotten better, so like that's why it?
I think it is harder now.
We don't feel it quite as muchbecause we sharpened our ax in
2008, when that happened livethrough that.
Learn from it.
So the second time around italways does feel a little bit
easier, but I would agree thatit's statistically it is harder.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Yeah, so let's talk about statistics, and I brought
this just so I can read it, so Idon't mess it up because I'm
known for messing up statistics.
But on the real estate side, in2024, 70% of all licensed
realtors didn't close a deal 70%.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
70%.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
So now we're down to 30.
And out of the 30 that did, 30%of them, I'm sorry 30 did.
And out of the 30%, 20% of themclosed less than 10
transactions all year.
4% of the remaining 10% closedenough just to cover their dues
and their expenses, which meanseverything else was done by only
(03:47):
six percent so six percentthrived.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Basically exactly 94 either.
Just got by jack you know whatyeah it's.
It's a little scary, but italso is like it's again.
It's kind of doing doom andgloom, but there is excitement.
Excitement here there is, thereis opportunity with this.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
So there's a lot of opportunity and that that's what
we're going to kind of talkthrough.
And it really depends on whenyou hear those things where your
heart goes Like some people getexcited and see it as great
opportunity and some people arelike, oh, not this again.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
Right.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
I don't want to do this again and it's it's really
self-reflection of when you hearsome of this stuff.
Where do you, what do you feel?
You know, where do you go withthat?
On the loan officer side, 4% ofall loan officers in 2024
closed 20 million or more, and20 million used to be not that
much right, like if we go backand we think about the last two,
(04:41):
three, four years, and only 4%and over 50% of loan officers
didn't even close six loans allyear.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
Wow, it's crazy, but even in good markets there's
always that 90-10 rule or 80-20rule?
But now it's even further ondisplay, it is For sure.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
There's definitely.
You can see that separation,separation totally the
differential, the gap, for sure,um, yeah, I think it, it
totally is fine.
Um, so, you know, we've been inthe shrinking industry and
shrinking industry obviouslydoes all kinds of things um to
us emotionally, obviously doesall kinds of things to us
(05:25):
emotionally.
And what are we looking forhere?
Let's talk about some reasonswhy people should stay.
What are some benefits tostaying in a shrinking market?
What are some things that thegood right Like where, if you
can, I mean when we went,started going through this, our
coaching program said made usprint off a big sheet that said
(05:47):
outlast everyone.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
Hat.
Yeah, I got a hat that saysoutlast the temporary.
Yeah, yeah, outlast everyone.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
It was our strategy, and it was behind my computers
the whole time, and it'ssomething I had to focus on.
All the time was just outlast.
Now, when we did that, wedidn't think we'd be outlasting
for this long, you know, wedidn't think it would last this
long, but now we're starting toget used to it.
Right, we're starting to getused to that this is more the
norm than what we ever thought.
So the thing is, though, youknow, when you go through these
(06:15):
struggles we just talked aboutus going through 08 and 09, and
even, and going through this now, what did that do Like?
What do you think that did foryou, as a mortgage professional,
being able to do that?
What does it do for you now?
Speaker 1 (06:28):
Well, it gives you definitely that, not just hope,
but that confidence that you canthrive in that market that you
can continue to invest inyourself, continue to get better
, continue to pour into people.
And there's still businessbeing done.
It's being done by less people,but why not?
Why not?
Why aren't you in that percentof people right that are doing
(06:51):
it right well?
Speaker 2 (06:51):
when you go through something like this and maybe
you didn't go through it like wedid back in 08 09 because you
weren't in the business thatlong, but it gives you more
credibility, right, like peopletrust you more once you survive
hard times like that and whenyou and I I were talking about
it, you brought up like your youknow.
When you talk to yourgrandparents about the Great
Depression, you know and and howthey survived that.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
And how it changed their worldview.
Right Like like oh, they saveddifferently, they did different
things.
So it does shape who you becomeif you survive through that.
It does shape who you become.
There's lessons to be learned.
Become if you survive throughthat.
It does shape who you become.
There's lessons to be learned,and so I think there's a lot of
lessons out there that for thepeople who choose to stay, who
don't quit, there are a lot oflessons to be learned, a lot of
things that you can take fromthis and really thrive with so
(07:36):
well it increases yourcompetitive advantage.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Right, right, like it .
Just it highlights thecredibility that you have now
and what you know through this.
You know when I go and I'mspeaking with somebody about
their mortgage and I talk about08-09 and kind of what we're
going through now, I'm able todraw that picture, I'm able to
make them understand theeconomics behind it and the
credibility is huge.
You know to them when they areputting their trust into us.
(08:02):
So I like that.
I think the trust piece is justreally important and it allows
us to help grow a market shareand I think that's the biggest
piece right now that you knowpeople who are not going to quit
and people who are going tostay.
This is opportunity.
This is market share time.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
Yeah challenge, like whenever challenges occur, stuff
like this, this is a challenge.
We're in a very challengingmarket.
If you look at that as the,that's the opportunity, that's
where the growth occurs, that'swhere, like, as long as you
don't say stagnant, as long asyou don't sit and wait, I I
that's why I kind of didn't lovethe outlast temporary, because
it outlasting is not an action,it's not taking action.
(08:43):
Yeah, it's kind of resting.
Yeah, hoping that it getsbetter, it's waiting for things.
So I didn't love that tagline.
I'll be completely honest, Idon't wear that hat.
Um it, just it didn't do it forme.
I think that, like, peoplewaiting to outlast this are not
in that percentage of people whoare thriving in it right now,
right Like embrace the challengeand get better, sharpen your
(09:07):
sword, uh like, do all thethings that it takes, grow,
learn, and there is business tobe had.
And there's few people, fewerand fewer people.
People are leaving in droves,right, so go get that business
that they were going to get.
Go get the business that theywere going to close for their
aunt.
They closed maybe one deal ayear, like their aunt now needs
to be served right, like thoseonesie, twosies people that are
(09:27):
getting out people got to goserve those people.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Why not you?
Right, why not you?
And why not be part of thatgroup that's taking more of that
share, more of that marketshare?
Uh, being part of the groupthat we just said.
That is the separation right,like your business is going to
only separate when you do that.
So, um, it's exciting, I meanit's, it's a lot of opportunity.
I had just had a coaching calla couple of days ago and I he
said how's your mindset?
Like where are you doing itright now?
I'm like I am excited, like Ireally really am.
So let's talk about reasonsthat people would quit or, um,
(09:59):
why it might be okay to quit.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Yeah it's.
I think that's worth discussing, Like we're not trying to talk
everybody into staying.
Yeah Right.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Right and and.
Well, let's just address this.
So you know, for me, when Ithink about quitting, I think
about being a loser.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Yeah, that's the connotation right Winners never
quit, quitters never win.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Right and I think about there's just so much
negative around it.
But I want to kind of unpackthat.
I want to talk about, um, whywould there be reasons to quit
Right, and you kind of alreadyhad said it earlier too.
But, man, you know, if you showup every single day, what'd you
say If you show up every singleday and just hate it?
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Yeah, If you wait, I think I think it was even if you
wake up in the morning and youjust dread it, if you're like
what the hell am I doing?
More often than not, then it'sprobably a pretty good sign that
you either need to find thatpassion again, or maybe there's
something else out there thatyou have more passion for, and
that's perfectly okay.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Well, I think you hit it on the head there.
One great reason it might betime to quit is if you have lost
your passion.
Or if you've lost your passion,try to find it and you just
can't anymore.
Because if you're not there, ifyou don't love it, people know
it, people feel it.
It's not enjoyable for you,people don't enjoy working with
you like it.
It, the passion piece I think,is so important and you're not
(11:17):
going to have passion everysingle day, like we got to be
clear that it's not going to bethis, just rainbows and
butterflies every single day inthis industry.
It's stressful, but do youreally thoroughly enjoy what it
is that you're doing?
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Yeah, what's kind of your default setting?
I guess you know what's themajority of the time how do you
feel about it Right?
Speaker 2 (11:35):
And then the other reason would, potentially, if
you're not willing to adapt youknow we are in a ever-changing
environment and if you don'thave the ability or the desire
to adapt and I think that thisis such a big key and most
people don't want to go hereMost people don't want to look
(11:55):
at themselves and decide I mean,even you and I, you know, when
we were talking about doing thispodcast like that's out of our
comfort zone and you know, doesthat instantly stop and say no
to you?
Or are you somebody that'sconstantly looking?
Is there things I could dobetter in my business?
Is there ways for me to grow?
And if there's not, it could betime.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Yeah, or if you're just not passionate about
growing in that thing, right.
It goes back to passion again,like, if you're unwilling to it
probably is because you're notpassionate about it, you don't
love it, like, uh, but yeah, ifyou're unwilling to adapt, um,
we talked about this a littlebit, but when I first got in the
industry we were super youngthere was a gal in the office
who was at the very tail end ofher career and she just uh,
demanded that she would not usetechnology, she would not use a
(12:40):
computer, she wanted to do allof her applications on paper.
And I just remember thinkinglike man, what a dinosaur, right
.
And um, it was definitelyquitting time for her and she
did not last much longer afterthat Her their business was just
like tailing off.
You could tell she was bitterabout the change in the industry
and was not going to adapt toit.
And now I look at it and I'mlike man, we're the kind of
(13:00):
those dinosaurs, being 23 yearsin the business.
So now it's like I guess theequivalent of that is like that
we're not, like don't want to godo TikTok dances right, you
know, to get business.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
I don't either I probably.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
I mean maybe that's, maybe that's that version of
that for me is like okay, Idon't think that I need to do
that, but it's a very goodreminder to think of that and be
like do I want to be her?
Speaker 2 (13:22):
yeah um, because this industry will push you out
pretty fast yeah, well, it'sever-changing and I mean, you
got to be able to adapt tomarketing strategies, to
technology, all that kind ofstuff that's going on out there.
And if you're not, if you meanif you're relying on outdated
strategies like cold calling,you know only, I'm not saying
that's not a bad thing, there'ssometimes that we do cold
calling but if you haven't, youknow, changed that approach,
(13:47):
yeah, you're gonna be left inand you know, say that the
dinosaur.
And yeah, I laugh at thatbecause I think naturally that's
what happens.
You're like we can't help that,um, and it's funny.
Now, as you become more of adinosaur, you look back and
you're like, oh, now, now Iunderstand why they acted that
way, um, but it doesn't alwaysmake it right.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Most of the time it doesn't make it right yeah.
Most of the time, like thatfear of that change, uh, is what
eventually will push you out?
You've you lose that passionyou like, dig your heels in on
something, your business fallsoff of a cliff because of it,
and like you're not just makingthe decision that it's quitting
time, like the business has kindof quit you.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
Well, let's talk.
So you and I both get coachedby our owner, todd, and he and
he shared this with both you andI about his time with Alex.
Yeah, this blew me away I don'tknow, take it off and all.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
Well, yeah, so he, Alex Ramosi right, is a big time
like influencer and also likebusiness guru.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Buys a bunch of businesses, help people invest
in their businesses.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Worth many, many, many millions.
Yes, right, and Todd's networth is about double his, and
he's also about double in age, Ithink.
So conventional wisdom wouldtell you that.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
Todd probably wouldn't be seeking advice from
Alex.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
Hermosi, wisdom or pride.
Well, conventional, just likethe conventional wisdom Thought
process.
Like most people would be like,yeah, he's probably not going to
hit him up for what he's doing,todd being the very smart
businessman that he is.
And the lesson here is like donot overlook people that are
younger than you, that have lessthan you.
If they're doing something well, take note of that.
You can learn.
(15:29):
And he actually paid a buttloadof money to go learn from him,
not just like call him up andask him for advice.
He paid a buttload of money togo be in the crowd and learn
from him and he doesn't needthat advice.
Like legitimately, he couldretire yesterday right, but he's
just got on this likerelentless pursuit of
improvement and so like that'snot everybody, I get that, but
(15:51):
like that's a very extremeexample.
But it was a great reminder forme that like man check my ego.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
And that's a great example.
Like so somebody that you, youknow you just never would think
that, and if he's willing to dothat, then why wouldn't I like?
Shame on me for not.
You know what I mean For fornot looking at different areas
that I can, people, I can learnfrom younger people how to adapt
what's working right now.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
Yeah, Never think that, you know at all.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
Yeah Right, it was really really good.
He's, he's amazing.
But yeah, I do think that youknow we have to.
Um, you know, if you'resomebody that is not willing to
change, or heck, even waitingfor the old market to come back,
yeah Right, Just sit and waitand thinking that it's going to
come back, like if that's whoyou are and you're not, like
might be time.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
Yeah, I mean I don't know if it needs any more
explanation than that, butabsolutely One hundred percent,
if you're just waiting forthings to get better, like that
is not a good place to be andlike you're not passionate about
that.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
OK.
So another reason you mightwant to quit and I love this,
this one and is you know what ifthe industry no longer aligns
with your personal goals, likeif you're, if you no longer your
life goals, your family goals,your health goals and I think
people don't stop enough tothink about that, like if it no
(17:11):
longer aligns, and I thinkpeople don't stop enough to
think about that, like if it nolonger aligns, maybe it is
quitting time.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Yeah, I mean a hundred percent agree with that.
I think it still goes back tolike, if you wake up and you
question, should I be doing thisthing, then like, yeah, part of
that's passion.
Another one is like thisdoesn't feel authentic to me
anymore.
This doesn't feel like you'renot going to have passion for it
.
I think that those go hand inhand.
(17:37):
You're not gonna have passionfor it if your values have
shifted a little bit and you,like a good example, would be
like you want to be at everyevent with your kids, you want
to pick them up from school, youwant to be able to drop them
off, you want to do, like, everylittle thing you may not be
able to do, what this jobentails as a full-time gig, to
treat it like a business.
For some people they can.
(17:57):
They can do all those things.
For other people they can't,and you need to recognize that
and that's okay.
Yeah, if it's totally notaligned with what you envision
for your life, then get the heckout and go do something that
you love, something you getexcited about every day.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
And that would fit into that schedule or your
health or whatever it is.
You know, if this industry isis hard because of the ups and
downs and the stress and it'scausing you health issues yeah,
if you got heart issues, this isnot.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
This industry is not for the faint of heart, right?
Speaker 2 (18:24):
so that's a great example actually or you know
what, if you're only staying inthe industry out of habit, you
know because you don't know whatthat other future could be you
don't know any different I'veheard so many people.
I've done it for 20 years.
I might as well just keep doingit.
Um, if that's the only reasonin all these other things that
we've talked about, you're likeis that's resonating with you,
(18:45):
like it might be time.
I wanted to read this and Iwrote this down.
I heard this and I just it's'sreally, really good and I want
to share it.
Quitting isn't failure andstaying isn't success.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
It's about making the best decision for your future.
Yeah, when you read that thefirst time, I think I had you
read it again because it's it'sa super, it is super powerful.
Can you read it again?
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Yeah, I can it just yeah, it's so different than
anything I've ever wrapped mybrain around with quitting.
Yeah, read it again Quittingisn't failure and staying isn't
success.
It's about making the bestdecision for your future.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Yeah, beautiful, beautifully said, and I think
that that's probably where wecan wrap this episode.
Just remember that it isabsolutely not a failure If this
is no longer aligned with allof the things that you love,
like if this, if you don't loveit anymore and you can't get to
a place where you love it, uh,or you can't get to a place
where it brings you joy or addsenergy.
(19:41):
I think for me it's a big likedoes it add energy or does it
take energy?
Does it suck energy from me?
If the answer to that questionis does this suck energy from
you every day or most days, thendon't.
It is fine to go find somethingelse that does give you more
energy.
Life is too short to live alife that is not, by design,
(20:01):
what you want right, so.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
So reflect on your goals and your passion and your
willingness right to adapt, andif it's not like, it's okay.
Yeah, and we'd love.
We'd love to chat with you.
You, if you guys ever want totalk through this or anything
like that chat, I both would bemore than willing to get on a
call or whatever and talkthrough either either side of
this, because there's no rightor wrong to it.
But it is just reallyreflecting on who.
(20:26):
That is, who you are and whatyou're wanting out of the rest
of the time that you have here.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Absolutely Lacey.
Great, great topic.
I'm glad you brought it upbecause I don't think I would
have thought of it.
But man, I'm glad we talkedabout it.
Hopefully everybody listeninggot something from it as well,
If you did share it withsomebody, or like take a, take a
(20:52):
snapshot, take a screenshot andtag us in it.
Whatever it is, however, youcan share it with somebody.
We would love, love it, butwe're glad you were here.
We'll see you soon.
Thanks, guys, thanks.
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