May 24, 2025 • 34 mins
Making the right hiring decisions transforms your business while avoiding costly mistakes that can derail your growth and work-life balance. We share our hard-won insights from years of team building across market cycles.
• When to hire: recognizing the signs including burnout, revenue plateaus, and spending too much time on low-value tasks
• Common hiring mistakes: unclear job descriptions, inadequate training plans, hiring without ROI tracking
• The difference between responsibilities (what to do) and expectations (how and when to do it)
• Hiring people who complement your weaknesses rather than mirror your strengths
• Using multiple interviews to avoid bias and assess culture fit
• Building effective onboarding with 30-60-90 day training plans
• Temporary solutions including virtual assistants and shared help
Don't let fear hold you back from growing your business. Take the leap, do it right, and you'll find that building a team is one of the most rewarding aspects of growing your business.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
If you are thinking about making a hire, adding to
(00:02):
your team this year or in thenear future, or if you have adds
people to your team in the pastand made some bad mistakes that
you don't want to make again,you're going to want to listen
to this episode.
This is the secret saucepodcast with Chad Reese and
Lacey Moores, where we want tohelp people build big businesses
(00:23):
and live big lives, and wethink that there's not a magic
bullet for doing that, but thereis a secret sauce.
So a lot of these are going tobe just the ingredients that can
help you make up a secret sauceto build a big business and
live a big life.
Let's get into it.
Welcome back everybody.
I'm Chad Treese here with LaceyMoores.
Today we're talking aboutmaking your first hire, or maybe
(00:46):
just adding people to your team.
What mistakes to avoid?
How to make the right hire andnot have to do it.
Not have to fire people becausethat really sucks, is that?
Speaker 2 (00:57):
good, yeah, yeah, yeah, I think it's great, but
also when, like when to hire?
Speaker 1 (01:08):
So I think that that's a valuable piece that you
, piece that we want to share.
On when do you know it's timeto hire, when to hire, who to
hire, why to hire, how to hire,what not to do?
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Let's actually break the ice there and start with
mistakes, because you and I haveboth been doing this for a long
time built a team, been throughthe craziest, busiest time
we've ever seen to the slowesttime we've ever seen all within
a couple of years swing.
I mean, it's been fun.
It's been real fun, that's oneway to put it.
(01:34):
Yeah.
Yeah, it's been a learningexperience, Sure, but in that we
have definitely.
You know when we were talkingabout this podcast and mistakes
you can make.
I'm sure you felt it too, butI've made every single one of
them.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Yeah, when we went through this list of mistakes I
was like check, check, check,check, yep, many times, yep,
yeah, and you get better, butyou're never going to be perfect
.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
But as long as you know we keep always talking
about that we fail forward.
We learn from it.
So let's talk about themistakes.
You want to go first.
You want me to tell you about amistake I've made?
Yeah, why don't you kick us off?
So one recently, and I've beencoaching on this to some
students who are going throughhiring.
But one thing I've told I wouldtell you I've learned is I'm a
(02:19):
pretty generous person and Ihave always felt like I want my
team to make a lot of money andas I make more money, I want
them to make a lot more moneyand I just what I want.
Sure and great concept, full ofheart.
But that can backfire, and Ididn't think through all the
(02:41):
things, because as you grow, youneed more people and you move
responsibilities around.
But what I've also learned isif you pay people too much money
out of the gate, you can't takeit away.
You can't go back.
You can't go back and itdoesn't matter if you justify it
or if you explain it, allpeople here is they're not,
(03:04):
they're no longer worth it.
And it is hard, hard, hard,hard.
And, um, you know, I got astudent right now who's just
slinging money around cause hewants to, you know, do more
loans, do more loans, I'll pay.
I'll pay anybody like and andI'm like whoa, whoa, whoa, calm
down.
It's, I mean the big mistakeyou know that I've made and it's
(03:25):
, you know, going through so wejust said that going through a
really busy market to a not sobusy market.
I mean when our, you know wewere doing four times the amount
of loans there for a while thanwe are now.
You don't need as many peopleyou don't need.
You don't have as much work todo, and it's a hard thing to do.
You don't need, you don't haveas much work to do, and it's a
(03:47):
hard thing to do.
Um, so that would be one that Ihave learned from and, um, I
got great people and I you know.
So it's a hard balance, butjust to be careful and to always
get advice from people who havealready done it before you
before you open your mouth andstart throwing out.
You know numbers so you canthink about things that you
don't see coming yet.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Yeah, absolutely.
I just think being preparedoverall right, it's kind of
making sure you have all yourducks in a row, making sure you
don't promise too much, um thatthere's a.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
There's a whole bunch of mistakes uh, hiring too soon
or too late.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
done which almost everybody does, You're not going
to time it perfectly Like.
It's probably going to be alittle.
I mean try, this whole episodeis going to try to get the
timing as right as possible, butat the same time, um, it's
really tough.
It's like trying to buy a stockat the right time.
We're trying to lock a rate atthe perfect time.
Um, there you're.
You're doing a little bit ofguesswork, but you're going to.
Now.
We're going to make sure thatyou're able to take a very
(04:42):
educated guess, right, right.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Yep, and if you do it too soon you're going to be
paying for it.
If you do it too late, yourbusiness is paying for it, you
know.
So yeah, trying to narrow thatin this is probably the biggest
one that I see.
Everybody makes the mostmistakes period with hiring is
not having a clear jobdescription and processes for
them.
People just hire for a Bandaidhire, for a fix hire, for I need
(05:06):
a body.
I know I need somebody, but Idon't have that full job
description written out and theydon't know what to do.
They're too busy, right,they're doing too much to sit
down and make that.
So they're like I'm going toget a body and then I'm going to
have this body do this and this, and it's all over the place
and that's the biggest disasterfor a fail, for an employee and
for yourself.
Like you're, you're sittingboth people up for complete
(05:28):
failure, right, and I have seenthat so many times from people
over the years.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Yeah, I make that mistake a lot, just kind of
thinking, oh well, they willfigure this out, how they'll?
They'll know what to do, uh, orI mean, even the best person in
the best has experience in arole that you're hiring for
isn't necessarily going to havethe confidence to come in and be
like, ok, we're going to dothings this way.
That's a very tough person tofind.
(05:54):
They're going to want tointegrate into your team the way
that you do things.
You're the leader.
They're going to want a bunchof a bunch of advice from you.
They're going to want a bunchof advice from you.
They're going to want a bunch ofdirection from you and if
you're not prepared to give thatdirection, then you're setting
them up for failure Sure.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
That's the next one Expecting someone to fix
everything without direction.
Yeah, so you already said thatone.
I like this one a lot tooFailing to track ROI.
So every single hire shouldcreate leverage and companies.
This is where and you and Iworked for a company like they
didn't want us to hire becausethey didn't have systems and
(06:31):
processes in place to make sure,when they hired, it would
create more ROI, right?
Or?
I'm sorry that it would pay forthe ROI, meaning that if I
needed somebody and I'm going tohire him, does it make my
business grow?
Because if it doesn't, thenthere's no reason to do that.
And I think that's a really bigpiece that people forget to
look over is once I take thisstuff off my plate, how much
(06:54):
more revenue am I going to beable to generate?
And then the last one was nothaving a 30, 60 and 90 day
training plan.
You can't vomit and throweverything on somebody and have
them learn it all you know.
So breaking it up over that 30,60, 90 days is a huge thing.
That totally propels successrate.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Even having a training plan at all period Most
people don't is just like we'regoing to wing this thing as we
go.
What's really nice is, as youstart adding people to the team
and they move up, uh, or if theyleave, um, if you can create a
training manual as you go, butthen they can train the
replacement.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Right.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Right, Um, and so have.
Make that person.
You're creating that trainingmanual.
It's a living, breathingdocument that you can use in the
future and that they can thentrain their next person, not you
having to do it.
So, um, and have them kind oftweak their training manual then
, as they go, so you have tocreate the first one, but once
you have that, they can, theycan really take, take it from
(07:53):
there and then it becomes much,much easier easier, way easier,
yep.
All right, so let's transitionfor a second.
Let's talk about when, uh, whatare some signs that it is time
to hire?
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Okay, let's do it.
Well, obviously a good signwould be if you're feeling very
overwhelmed or if you'redropping the ball right, like if
you are constantly missingphone calls or forgetting to
follow up, because follow up isobviously the most important
thing that we can do or ifyou're just struggling to keep
up with your transactions andwhether you're an agent, whether
(08:26):
you're a lender, insurer, Imean whatever it is right Like
if you are always feelingoverwhelmed definitely a sign.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
Right, either you got a time management problem or if
you're, if you're, if you'refeeling pretty efficient, like
you're getting as much done asyou can, but you still can't
keep up with it.
Because I think there is justas a caveat to that there is
some people that just feelfrazzled all the time, right,
and they don't have a goodfollow up system or whatever.
That's not necessarily it.
You don't necessarily need tohire somebody, but if you are
(08:55):
burning the midnight oil kind oflike burning the candle at both
ends and you still can't get itall done and you're starting to
slip, sure starting to slip.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Sure, right, I you know, I I'm glad you said that
actually with time managementbecause, um, in all of our
coaching, um summits that we goto, there's always a time
management class, always, andyou know, the best of the best
are always in the timemanagement class.
Guilty.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Always.
I'm always there.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
But it doesn't mean that you're awful.
It means that it's somethingyou always have to work on,
right, right, and you can alwaysget better, even if you're
really good at a team and youhave an amazing team.
Because every time you add,hire, change, the market shifts.
Anything you have torecalibrate Right.
So I think that's a great thingjust to bring up.
(09:43):
Next would be is your revenueplateauing or declining?
So have you hit this ceiling?
You know there's a place thatonly you yourself, but even if
you have a team of one or two,there's always a ceiling that
you're going to hit, and that'sa good way to know.
Like for us, I don't care howgood of a loan officer you are,
(10:06):
the best of the best, if youdon't have a team, you can't do
more than eight or nine loans amonth, and that's if you're
really good.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
Right, I mean really good Right, not consistent, not
with any consistency whatsoeveror ruining your marriage or,
like you know, not being aroundfor your kids or whatever your
service level.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
I mean all of the things like you can't provide
the same service.
Once you hit that, that's yourceiling right, and there's a
ceiling for every industry orevery person.
So you got to figure out whatthat ceiling is.
But once you're hitting thatceiling if you're hitting it
like it's going to startdeclining, all those things are
going to start happening.
So that's a really good signthat you need help, you know.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Definitely.
Uh, I think probably maybe alittle bit before, even is when
you want to start to at leastrecognize it Right.
So you can.
Uh, because then we're going tofall into that category of
hiring too late.
Uh, because typically onceyou've hit that plateau, uh, and
you've maybe hit it threemonths in a row, it's too late.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
It's probably too late, yeah Well it's not too
late, but you don't get out.
You can't hire in one day,right, like there's a process to
do it right, or you're going tomake a bad hire and that part
takes time.
So you're exactly right on that.
This next one is too much time.
Or on low value tasks.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Right.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
And this one is so.
I had a coach teach me thisyears ago who had me figure up
what my hourly wage was and hadme put it on a big sticky note
above my monitors and he saidfor two days, I want you to go
through every single thing thatyou do and I want you to write
it down on this piece of papernext to you and we're going to
(11:44):
look at it and we're going todecide on the task you're doing
on a daily basis, if it is atthe wage that you should be
earning.
And it was a really goodexercise to start figuring out
how many things I mean early on.
I was the type of person who'slike I'm not going to ask
somebody to copy my papers.
I'm not going to ask somebodyto scan my documents, I can do
that.
To ask somebody to copy mypapers, I'm not going to ask
somebody to scan my documents, Ican do that.
(12:04):
And I felt like I was beinglike pushing it off on somebody,
right or when it was somethingthat I could do.
And this exercise was so goodfor me mentally to realize I'm
actually robbing somebody of ajob right like that could have a
job that I could be helpingprovide, because I don't want to
(12:25):
do that.
So it allowed me to change mymindset to this is not a good
use of your time once I startedreally figuring out that dollar
detail.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
Totally, and I think a good way to look at that, too,
is just that every minute orevery hour of your day is a
zero-sum game, right?
So like, if you're doing thosethings, you are taking time away
from.
The things that you could bedoing that do are higher revenue
activities, right?
(12:54):
So defining what the highrevenue activities are, what the
things aren't that are highrevenue is just another way to
kind of look at it.
I think you're saying the same,we're kind of saying the same
thing, right, but what could youpay somebody else to do?
What tasks could you paysomebody else to do at?
whatever whatever that rate isthat keeps you from doing your
(13:16):
high dollar tasks?
Because we all know there'scertain things and you need to
identify what those things are.
Try to fill your day with thosethings and let all the other
things let other people do andyeah, you're create jobs.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
So it's a win-win.
It's good, um, really good.
What about if client experienceis suffering?
So we've already kind ofcovered that above.
But you know, you're, you're.
You're not getting back toclients as quickly.
I mean, in our industry you'renot getting back to people quick
, they are moving on to the nextthing.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
Totally.
Um speed to lead?
Speaker 2 (13:46):
Yeah, and so you know it's you.
If you could really stop andlook at what business could I?
Am I potentially losing becauseI'm not efficient enough or
because I don't have a teamefficient enough?
I mean that one's pretty clear.
You know, lack of proactivecommunication will hurt anybody,
especially, you know, infast-paced industries.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Turning away business .
I mean, I don't know if I'veever done that.
I'm the person who I'll take it, but I'll figure it out, which
sometimes is not great.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
Yeah, there's probably not a lot of people out
there right now in thisindustry or in this market that
we're in that are turning awaybusiness, but if you are, it's
definitely time, well, you?
Speaker 2 (14:25):
know we could back up and think you know back when I
mean rates dropped into thethrees right.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Right.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
Like we.
We, no matter what we did, wecouldn't help everybody that
wanted help.
Like I always talk, use theanalogy about us fishing like
fish were jumping in our boat,like you know we couldn't even
stop it.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
We weren't actively turning away business.
But we were inactively turningaway business because we weren't
uh marketing to our entiredatabase, like we could have
sent during that time could havesent out a blast to our entire
database.
Hey, rates are in the twos, youshould refinance.
Get on my calendar and then youknow my database is like over
3000 people at that point, thatprobably over half of them at
(15:05):
least should have takenadvantage of that, and you don't
have the capacity, you don'tpossibly have the capacity to do
it.
So, yeah, we weren't activelyturning away business, but now,
yes, subconsciously or whateverwe were, we were absolutely
turning away business.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
That's so true.
That's so true.
Um, and then the last one we'vealready talked about too, but
burnout and no work-life balance.
So you know when you, you knowwhen your personal life is
suffering and you're constantlyexhausted.
That could be a good sign.
Now, I do think that's part ofthe grind in the beginning, you
know.
I have seen people get into thisbusiness and they're like
(15:40):
really early on, okay, I'm readyto hire.
And I think that is sometimesthe too early part.
You know, I think there issomething to be said with having
to do that and go through thatand grind for that.
But so I'm not just saying thatjust because you feel like
you're burned out, you should goout and hire somebody.
But it could be a sign.
I mean, it definitely could.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
Well, yeah, I think that not necessarily grinding,
but you need to do all of theroles right as a maybe as a solo
, as a one man show, one womanshow, whatever.
You need to have done all thoseroles to be able to effectively
train who is coming in to dothat stuff.
So, yeah, I think you, youdefinitely need to grind for a
while so you know exactly how totrain that next person anyways.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
You know it's interesting.
You say that I don't think alot of people do that anymore
and you and I've done businessfor such a long time.
Um, I mean back when we would,you would be your own processor,
you would be your own.
I mean you did it all.
And nowadays people come in ourindustries both on real estate
and mortgage, you know wherethey'll just be a showing
assistant without knowing how todo anything else, so that you
(16:45):
know that piece has changed.
But I do think you know that'svery kind of eye opening on the
differences, right, like thedifferences in the experience
and what people can get, becausewe have done all of those.
So I think there's some valueto doing that.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
Definitely.
I think that's more probablyprevalent in real estate than it
is in lending, becauseprocessing is kind of its own
separate thing right.
Like I'm not skilled to be aprocessor, whereas a realtor can
.
They can list, they can showthey, they can do the
transaction coordination.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Is it the best use of their time?
Not necessarily, I mean yeah,but it's not the best use of
your time.
Sure sure.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
I'm not a marketing guru or you know those things
where realtors, I think, try towear all the hats at the
beginning, yep, and I think thatthat's okay for a little while,
and then now let's figure out,okay, how do we start to grow
this thing beyond the one man,one woman show?
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Yep, so you know.
The next would be like who tohire, and you and I have been
talking about this, because thisis obviously just like we were
talking about completelydifferent with our industry real
estate side.
I mean, I got a good friendthat's an insurance agent and
him and I have worked togetheras he's built his team and what
that looks like.
So it's definitely going to bedifferent whenever we're talking
(18:07):
about depending on the industry, but knowing who to hire is
very, very important.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
What role to hire for .
That's what we're talking about, right and I think we decided
that we don't need to spend muchtime on this really, because if
you do everything else right, Ithink this will kind of become
pretty crystal clear in whatrole you need to fill.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
If we do the thing we talked about before, right,
where you're looking at yourhigh value, high dollar tasks
and your lower stuff that youcould pay somebody else to do,
then it's going to start topresent itself as far as like
okay, what role do I need tofill?
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Sure, but I will say, if you don't find the right
person and put them in the rightseat of the bus, that's
probably another big mistake youknow that's made is when you
hire somebody for a role thatthey don't fit for, and so going
through.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
Yeah, square peg, round hole situation.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Going for a role that they don't fit for and so going
through a square peg round holesituation, going through those
types of steps, and we're goingto kind of cover the steps to
ensure you know that you aremaking the right hire.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
So let's move over to that, and we've kind of already
talked about it when we talkedabout the hiring mistakes.
But so the first step wheneveryou're looking to make the right
hire is defining the role first, um, and then what that success
, how that role is successivelyfilled, like if you were to hire
somebody, clearly outliningtheir responsibilities, the
expectations, before you evenhire who it is.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Yeah, I'm going to show, I'm going to hire a
showing assistant, like that'swhat I've determined that I need
, right as an example.
And these are these are theexact things that I want them to
do.
This is how this is like themetrics of which what kind of I
want to be able to expect fromthem those things is that that's
yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
I will say clearly, though responsibilities and
expectations are two differentthings, and especially if
they're not spoken right and somany people are good at
responsibilities but notexpectations.
I struggle with expectationsbecause I think people should
know and that's not the casewhat somebody else expects and
what I expect are two differentthings.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
Yeah, so if you define those things a little bit
right, just to make a clearexample here, like if you give
somebody, you outline theirresponsibilities, right, they
understand their job duty, theirdetails, but they don't
necessarily know that yourexpectation is that they answer
the phone.
You know within two rings,right, or what to say, yep, what
(20:28):
your expectations are for howto perform.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Yes, all those things , yeah, it's so huge.
And so you know, people willdefine the responsibilities,
think they're all good, and thenI talked to them later and
they're like, oh, I'm struggling, this person doesn't do this.
This is well.
Do they know?
That's what you expected.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
Yeah, it's just a failure on the leader part at
all.
Put it in that responsibility.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
That's, responsibilities and
expectations are two totallydifferent things, and I think
people are really good atdefining the job roles, really
good at the responsibilities andreally bad at expectations.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
Right.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
And I I am too Like.
It's a skill I have toconstantly work at.
I tell my team, if I ask you todo something, what I'm bad
about telling them, even to thisday.
I'm bad about telling them whenI need it by what the
expectation is, and so they'retrying to help train me to be
better at that.
So what they're supposed to doif I ask them to do something
and I don't give them theexpectation of when I need it,
(21:23):
they have to respond to me andsay I'd be happy to.
When do you need it?
By?
Speaker 1 (21:29):
Gotcha yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Because I need to create the habit, because I'm
not good at the expectationpiece.
I'm aware I don't have a teamfor years.
It's just where I don't.
I'm not great at it.
So they want, I want them toteach me that and I want to be
better at it, because then oncethey know when it's needed to be
done by, they're good, they fitit in their day accordingly and
they're not guessing.
(21:51):
But what they think it is inmine is always different.
So if I'm not telling them,they feel like a failure or they
feel like they can't please meand I'm feeling like what's
wrong.
I clearly asked you what to do.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
That's just a life lesson in and of itself.
By the way, it's not just forleading people.
Marriage kids life, everything.
Make sure that people know theexpectations, because then when
you're disappointed in in peoplebut you didn't give them what
your expectations were, thenit's really your fault.
Your fault, yeah, and that hitshome for me.
(22:25):
Uh.
So we're very, very uh guiltyof that ourselves.
It's a human.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
It's a human thing, I think for sure, but I do think
you can do things to work on itoh, for sure, yeah, that's what
I was saying, like with my team,like, figure out how you can be
, try to be better at it, and Iasked them to push back on me
because I clearly I mean stilldo it.
So, um, another step to ensurethe right hire is assess their
strengths and weaknesses.
Um, this one, you know, there'sall kinds of um, um tests out
(22:55):
there.
Like, I love the disc mainlybecause it's what I was trained
on, and there's a bunch of themout there and all that stuff,
all of that stuff, um, so thoseare great.
But you know, when you go tohire somebody, people do not
talk about weaknesses.
Why would you like, like you'retrying to get a job, you show
up and you say all the greatthings about yourself.
(23:16):
But when I go throughinterviews with people, I help
interview for a lot of otherpeople, for their teams, because
I've done this so much and Ilove to just go straight.
For what do you suck at?
And it's okay, like there are,and I'll share some things I
suck at'm sure I getexpectations.
I suck at organ is like whatthey are and that's fine.
(23:37):
I'm still a really good,successful person.
But what do you suck at?
And and letting them talk aboutthat, um, I think it's a hugely
missed part of hiring andsometimes they're not always
going to be honest, let's be.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
I mean yeah, most people are like oh yeah, my
biggest flaw, you know, is thatI work too hard, or my biggest
flaw is that I care too much,you know, so you can see through
that but you know robin'salways taught us to why, why?
Speaker 2 (24:06):
right, so if you explain it, take it a couple
more steps deeper, you canactually unpeel that onion a
little bit and find out whatthose are.
Listen, everyone's going tohave weaknesses, but if we know
those upfront, like I don't wantto waste your time, chad, if
I'm trying to hire you and youdon't want to waste mine if this
is a really bad seat for you,like this doesn't isn't your
skillset.
Let's figure that out sooner,right?
Speaker 1 (24:26):
Right.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
Because if it doesn't work out, you feel like a
failure.
If it doesn't work out, I feellike a failure because I hired
the wrong person.
Like, let's just be honest atthis interview, um, and figure
out is it a good fit, Right?
You don't want to.
If it's not, either, you know.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Well, especially when you're making that first hire,
because you need to one assesswithin yourself what, what are
you, what are your biggestweaknesses to you?
Um, not just what can make youmore money, Right, but also like
what uh drains energy from youthat you do or that you just
suck at doing?
Um, drains my energy to dostuff I suck at, for sure, but
(25:02):
um, and then filling gaps inwhen, in that hire, is you're
looking for people that that'sreally what they?
excel at right Because theycould be really good for, like,
an amazing human.
They could be really good atcertain things.
But if you hire somebody thatis good at the same stuff that
you're good at and they alsosuck at the same stuff you suck
at, that you're probably gonnabe pretty good friends, but that
(25:24):
doesn't make them a great hire.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Right, well, no, it messes everything up.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Makes a pretty shitty hire yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
I mean, the people that I hire are specifically to
fill the needs where I lack.
Yeah, and that's how you get tohave that beautiful team and
the longevity, and because youget the right pieces, you know,
or the right people on the rightseat of the bus is what I
always say.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
Definitely, and it seems like when you're saying it
out loud, you're like, ofcourse, like that seems so
simple, but these are mistakesthat we have all made, because
you're going to interviewsomebody that's like oh my God,
they're so great because they'reso much like you and you're not
hiring to replace you.
(26:06):
You have a job to do.
You're hiring to fill gaps,that stuff that you suck at or
you don't want to do.
So it is a trap that peoplefall into.
A lot I've been guilty of.
That for sure is hiring peoplethat are more like me versus
people that fill fill the stuffthat is unlike me.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Yep, the the other one too, and we just said that
is making sure you're not theonly person interviewing.
You know, um, making sure thatyou have a couple of different
interviews set up.
Either if you have a team, letthem interview, or somebody
outside of your group, have themalso interviewed to look for
things that you're going to missand that that, that tech that
is so powerful and a lot of youknow groups have that where
(26:39):
they're like, okay, you have togo through a three interview
process or whatever.
There's a reason for that, andlike I fall in love with people,
like I fall in love with people, I find I look at all the
things they could be great at.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
I just see the best in everybody.
It's just your default setting.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
It's my default setting, and so I have to have
people who know that about me,who are a little bit better at
finding the weaknesses andfinding the things because I'm
like, oh, I'll look past that.
They're so good at this, Right,you know um they can be a good
reality check for you.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
And that's actually a really good interlude into the
next one, which is all aboutculture, right, Uh?
And that's actually a reallygood interlude into the next one
, which is all about culture.
Yep, right, you need to makesure that, even if they're
really good at filling thoseroles, that they're also going
to be a culture fit if you arealready have an existing team or
you're just growing one.
Right Culture is so important.
You end up spending more time Alot of times.
You spend more time with thepeople that you work with than
(27:31):
you do with your family.
That's kind of sad, but that isthe sad reality, because we're
spending eight hours sleeping,eight hours at work, you know,
and then the rest of it we'reapparently at home.
But you know, kids are all overthe place.
They're not necessarily you'renot spending every waking hour
together, so you are spending alot of time with these people.
So you got to make sure thatthey're a fit, not just with you
(27:52):
right.
But with the whole team and, um,yeah, not everybody's going to
be exactly alike, but you wantto like, you want to make sure
there's not people that come inthat have completely different
values or beliefs.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
Um, or or negativity right Like.
I mean you can get somebody so,so skilled.
But when they're negative, Imean it's a cancer and it, it is
so hard on the entire team, um,and it is.
I mean I always say it's abuzzkill, but it will just eat
at anything.
You've built, everything you'vebuilt.
(28:25):
You know, if you don't see thatearly, early on, yeah, if you
bring somebody negative in that.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
There's a study just recently I remember hearing
about, but it's like if you setpeople um with negative people
like one negative influence, andyou put it like a team of
people around them, thatperformance comes down like
immediately at a much greaterpercent.
That if you put everybodyaround like a really positive
person, like that definitelyhelps.
(28:52):
But the negative outweighs thepositive like two to one like
the Delta, yeah right.
Exactly Like the the workperformance coming down versus
work performance going up arounda positive person.
The negative one is truly acancer.
So you got to weed those peopleout.
Hopefully you weed them outbefore you hire them, but if you
do hire that person, like whenthat starts to present itself,
(29:13):
you got to make sure you can fixit or they just don't belong on
the team.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
Right, that's the stark reality.
Well, you know, they say slowto hire, quick to fire.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
And that is hard, but it is.
It's so.
I've seen myself and I've seenso people, so many people
struggle with it, but when youfinally do it, you're like, oh,
I should have done that a longtime ago.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
And then your whole team comes to you and it's like
God, well, I think you we'vebeen, we've been biting our
tongue about it.
So, yeah, be real careful aboutthat.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
So, and that is one right, use an effective
interview, interview processright Like so, go through and
it's a little bit different,obviously through Um, and it's a
little bit different, obviously, depending on the industry that
you're in.
But I always say more than oneto you know, one to three
different interviews for sure,um, and don't hire out of
desperation.
I think that is where you knowa bad hire is more costly than
(30:08):
waiting for the right person andright.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
People fall in that trap a lot, a lot because
they're like oh my God, I'm socrazy busy and you know my
wife's about to file divorcebecause I'm not around enough
and like things are going crazyand I'm a bad dad or a bad mom.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
You think that just a body is going to fix it.
And man, the wrong hire is.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
So there's temporary help for that right.
So nowadays it's so easy and wecould do a whole podcast
episode on virtual assistance orsharing help with people Like
there's so many ways to go aboutdoing that that you don't have
to commit to, you know, afull-time hire just out of
desperation.
Yes, so while you're lininggetting your ducks in a row and
(30:49):
everything, and you're doinggoing through all these other
steps to make sure that you getthe right person, um, you know,
tap into some part-time.
You'd hire part-time help.
Um, you know, with the abilityto then come full time if they
prove themselves or whatever.
Uh, you can do virtualassistance.
Uh, there's local and overseasvirtual assistance that are
(31:10):
cheap.
Uh, for temporary help andreally good.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Yeah, Like we're learning.
You and I are going through allof that right now and it's mind
blowing.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
Yeah, there's plenty of teams out there.
They're probably in a similarsituation.
Talk to your you know thegroups inside your office as a
realtor and ask them, like, areyou on the verge of needing to
hire somebody?
Do you want to look at possiblysharing some help for a little
bit?
Um, like, I think there'sinterim solutions that people
just don't think about and thenthey just, yeah, they get
desperate and they throw thewrong offer to the wrong person
(31:39):
for the wrong amount of moneyand it's ugly.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
And then we fast forward and they're they're
complaining on why?
Why am I building a team?
This isn't for me.
And they're going through allthose emotions just because we
made a step.
We did one step wrong.
Yeah yeah for sure.
So how do we avoid that?
You know, I think we've alreadygone through most of it, but it
is the setting up, the clearonboarding, the clear training,
the clear responsibility list,the clear expectation list.
(32:04):
You know, making sure that wehave all of that lined up and
that they're aware of it.
You know before you, before youhire them, that this is what
this process you know, some ofthe people that I hire for, like
I break down.
That's why I like that 30, 60,90 myself, because you're only
going to learn this amount inthe 30 day.
I'm not going to teach youeverything up front and hope you
(32:26):
do well at it.
We're going to teach this partfor 30.
And then, once we get to the 60, you're going to now take on
this much.
And then, once we get to the 60, you're going to now take on
this much.
Once we get to the 90, you'regoing to like you remember going
to the dentist when we werelittle kids and they would have
them like beads, them likesyllabuses that you could like
move.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
Oh, yeah, so.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
I think of training like that.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
An abacus.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
Abacus yes, but you'd move these over Like that's
what trainings don't look like.
I expect 30 days and this muchat the 60 days.
Um, and you'll learn, you know,some will be faster than that
and you can, you know, changethat timescale.
But really having that planonce I've I've done it many
times without and a lot moretimes with, and the width has
(33:06):
way better success rate.
Um going through these stepsand longevity, where people stay
with you and they feel likethey're part of something.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
Yeah, that's great.
Um, I think we, I think I thinkwe've hit covered it all.
Yeah, right, was there anythingelse that you wanted to touch
on on this topic?
Speaker 2 (33:22):
No, I'm good.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
Uh, I just hope it helps.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
You know, I hope people it's, it's hard.
It is hard growing a team'shard.
People are going to come,people are going to go.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
But there's resources out there.
I mean, these are not thingsthat we've come up with on our
own.
Like, we've followed certainsystems and processes, and I
need to do way better.
I think you are better at thistopic than I am, uh, for sure,
uh, and I, like I've come to youfor advice on this stuff and so
I would say reach out to peoplethat you trust.
Uh, reach out to us If you have.
If you're thinking about doingthis, uh, there is a huge amount
(33:54):
of value in doing it right, um,rather than just throwing, uh,
throwing an offer out tosomebody.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
So yeah, we'd love to help you not make some of the
same mistakes.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
Yeah, yeah, exactly so please reach out to us.
Um, but yeah, hopeful, greatgood luck with your uh next hire
.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
Um, I guess we will see you uh, just say, take the,
take the, the leap, do it.
You know um, go through thesteps right, but man it will
really.
It's, it's so much fun.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
Yeah, don't be afraid of growing.
For sure, take the leap, do it,but do it right.
So hopefully you've got somegood value on how to do it right
with this episode.
That's it for now.
We'll see you guys next time.
Thanks, guys.
If you are thinking about making a hire, adding to
(00:02):
your team this year or in thenear future, or if you have adds
people to your team in the pastand made some bad mistakes that
you don't want to make again,you're going to want to listen
to this episode.
This is the secret saucepodcast with Chad Reese and
Lacey Moores, where we want tohelp people build big businesses
(00:23):
and live big lives, and wethink that there's not a magic
bullet for doing that, but thereis a secret sauce.
So a lot of these are going tobe just the ingredients that can
help you make up a secret sauceto build a big business and
live a big life.
Let's get into it.
Welcome back everybody.
I'm Chad Treese here with LaceyMoores.
Today we're talking aboutmaking your first hire, or maybe
(00:46):
just adding people to your team.
What mistakes to avoid?
How to make the right hire andnot have to do it.
Not have to fire people becausethat really sucks, is that?
Speaker 2 (00:57):
good, yeah, yeah, yeah, I think it's great, but
also when, like when to hire?
Speaker 1 (01:08):
So I think that that's a valuable piece that you
, piece that we want to share.
On when do you know it's timeto hire, when to hire, who to
hire, why to hire, how to hire,what not to do?
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Let's actually break the ice there and start with
mistakes, because you and I haveboth been doing this for a long
time built a team, been throughthe craziest, busiest time
we've ever seen to the slowesttime we've ever seen all within
a couple of years swing.
I mean, it's been fun.
It's been real fun, that's oneway to put it.
(01:34):
Yeah.
Yeah, it's been a learningexperience, Sure, but in that we
have definitely.
You know when we were talkingabout this podcast and mistakes
you can make.
I'm sure you felt it too, butI've made every single one of
them.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Yeah, when we went through this list of mistakes I
was like check, check, check,check, yep, many times, yep,
yeah, and you get better, butyou're never going to be perfect
.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
But as long as you know we keep always talking
about that we fail forward.
We learn from it.
So let's talk about themistakes.
You want to go first.
You want me to tell you about amistake I've made?
Yeah, why don't you kick us off?
So one recently, and I've beencoaching on this to some
students who are going throughhiring.
But one thing I've told I wouldtell you I've learned is I'm a
(02:19):
pretty generous person and Ihave always felt like I want my
team to make a lot of money andas I make more money, I want
them to make a lot more moneyand I just what I want.
Sure and great concept, full ofheart.
But that can backfire, and Ididn't think through all the
(02:41):
things, because as you grow, youneed more people and you move
responsibilities around.
But what I've also learned isif you pay people too much money
out of the gate, you can't takeit away.
You can't go back.
You can't go back and itdoesn't matter if you justify it
or if you explain it, allpeople here is they're not,
(03:04):
they're no longer worth it.
And it is hard, hard, hard,hard.
And, um, you know, I got astudent right now who's just
slinging money around cause hewants to, you know, do more
loans, do more loans, I'll pay.
I'll pay anybody like and andI'm like whoa, whoa, whoa, calm
down.
It's, I mean the big mistakeyou know that I've made and it's
(03:25):
, you know, going through so wejust said that going through a
really busy market to a not sobusy market.
I mean when our, you know wewere doing four times the amount
of loans there for a while thanwe are now.
You don't need as many peopleyou don't need.
You don't have as much work todo, and it's a hard thing to do.
You don't need, you don't haveas much work to do, and it's a
(03:47):
hard thing to do.
Um, so that would be one that Ihave learned from and, um, I
got great people and I you know.
So it's a hard balance, butjust to be careful and to always
get advice from people who havealready done it before you
before you open your mouth andstart throwing out.
You know numbers so you canthink about things that you
don't see coming yet.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Yeah, absolutely.
I just think being preparedoverall right, it's kind of
making sure you have all yourducks in a row, making sure you
don't promise too much, um thatthere's a.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
There's a whole bunch of mistakes uh, hiring too soon
or too late.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
done which almost everybody does, You're not going
to time it perfectly Like.
It's probably going to be alittle.
I mean try, this whole episodeis going to try to get the
timing as right as possible, butat the same time, um, it's
really tough.
It's like trying to buy a stockat the right time.
We're trying to lock a rate atthe perfect time.
Um, there you're.
You're doing a little bit ofguesswork, but you're going to.
Now.
We're going to make sure thatyou're able to take a very
(04:42):
educated guess, right, right.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Yep, and if you do it too soon you're going to be
paying for it.
If you do it too late, yourbusiness is paying for it, you
know.
So yeah, trying to narrow thatin this is probably the biggest
one that I see.
Everybody makes the mostmistakes period with hiring is
not having a clear jobdescription and processes for
them.
People just hire for a Bandaidhire, for a fix hire, for I need
(05:06):
a body.
I know I need somebody, but Idon't have that full job
description written out and theydon't know what to do.
They're too busy, right,they're doing too much to sit
down and make that.
So they're like I'm going toget a body and then I'm going to
have this body do this and this, and it's all over the place
and that's the biggest disasterfor a fail, for an employee and
for yourself.
Like you're, you're sittingboth people up for complete
(05:28):
failure, right, and I have seenthat so many times from people
over the years.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Yeah, I make that mistake a lot, just kind of
thinking, oh well, they willfigure this out, how they'll?
They'll know what to do, uh, orI mean, even the best person in
the best has experience in arole that you're hiring for
isn't necessarily going to havethe confidence to come in and be
like, ok, we're going to dothings this way.
That's a very tough person tofind.
(05:54):
They're going to want tointegrate into your team the way
that you do things.
You're the leader.
They're going to want a bunchof a bunch of advice from you.
They're going to want a bunchof advice from you.
They're going to want a bunch ofdirection from you and if
you're not prepared to give thatdirection, then you're setting
them up for failure Sure.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
That's the next one Expecting someone to fix
everything without direction.
Yeah, so you already said thatone.
I like this one a lot tooFailing to track ROI.
So every single hire shouldcreate leverage and companies.
This is where and you and Iworked for a company like they
didn't want us to hire becausethey didn't have systems and
(06:31):
processes in place to make sure,when they hired, it would
create more ROI, right?
Or?
I'm sorry that it would pay forthe ROI, meaning that if I
needed somebody and I'm going tohire him, does it make my
business grow?
Because if it doesn't, thenthere's no reason to do that.
And I think that's a really bigpiece that people forget to
look over is once I take thisstuff off my plate, how much
(06:54):
more revenue am I going to beable to generate?
And then the last one was nothaving a 30, 60 and 90 day
training plan.
You can't vomit and throweverything on somebody and have
them learn it all you know.
So breaking it up over that 30,60, 90 days is a huge thing.
That totally propels successrate.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Even having a training plan at all period Most
people don't is just like we'regoing to wing this thing as we
go.
What's really nice is, as youstart adding people to the team
and they move up, uh, or if theyleave, um, if you can create a
training manual as you go, butthen they can train the
replacement.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Right.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Right, Um, and so have.
Make that person.
You're creating that trainingmanual.
It's a living, breathingdocument that you can use in the
future and that they can thentrain their next person, not you
having to do it.
So, um, and have them kind oftweak their training manual then
, as they go, so you have tocreate the first one, but once
you have that, they can, theycan really take, take it from
(07:53):
there and then it becomes much,much easier easier, way easier,
yep.
All right, so let's transitionfor a second.
Let's talk about when, uh, whatare some signs that it is time
to hire?
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Okay, let's do it.
Well, obviously a good signwould be if you're feeling very
overwhelmed or if you'redropping the ball right, like if
you are constantly missingphone calls or forgetting to
follow up, because follow up isobviously the most important
thing that we can do or ifyou're just struggling to keep
up with your transactions andwhether you're an agent, whether
(08:26):
you're a lender, insurer, Imean whatever it is right Like
if you are always feelingoverwhelmed definitely a sign.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
Right, either you got a time management problem or if
you're, if you're, if you'refeeling pretty efficient, like
you're getting as much done asyou can, but you still can't
keep up with it.
Because I think there is justas a caveat to that there is
some people that just feelfrazzled all the time, right,
and they don't have a goodfollow up system or whatever.
That's not necessarily it.
You don't necessarily need tohire somebody, but if you are
(08:55):
burning the midnight oil kind oflike burning the candle at both
ends and you still can't get itall done and you're starting to
slip, sure starting to slip.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Sure, right, I you know, I I'm glad you said that
actually with time managementbecause, um, in all of our
coaching, um summits that we goto, there's always a time
management class, always, andyou know, the best of the best
are always in the timemanagement class.
Guilty.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Always.
I'm always there.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
But it doesn't mean that you're awful.
It means that it's somethingyou always have to work on,
right, right, and you can alwaysget better, even if you're
really good at a team and youhave an amazing team.
Because every time you add,hire, change, the market shifts.
Anything you have torecalibrate Right.
So I think that's a great thingjust to bring up.
(09:43):
Next would be is your revenueplateauing or declining?
So have you hit this ceiling?
You know there's a place thatonly you yourself, but even if
you have a team of one or two,there's always a ceiling that
you're going to hit, and that'sa good way to know.
Like for us, I don't care howgood of a loan officer you are,
(10:06):
the best of the best, if youdon't have a team, you can't do
more than eight or nine loans amonth, and that's if you're
really good.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
Right, I mean really good Right, not consistent, not
with any consistency whatsoeveror ruining your marriage or,
like you know, not being aroundfor your kids or whatever your
service level.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
I mean all of the things like you can't provide
the same service.
Once you hit that, that's yourceiling right, and there's a
ceiling for every industry orevery person.
So you got to figure out whatthat ceiling is.
But once you're hitting thatceiling if you're hitting it
like it's going to startdeclining, all those things are
going to start happening.
So that's a really good signthat you need help, you know.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Definitely.
Uh, I think probably maybe alittle bit before, even is when
you want to start to at leastrecognize it Right.
So you can.
Uh, because then we're going tofall into that category of
hiring too late.
Uh, because typically onceyou've hit that plateau, uh, and
you've maybe hit it threemonths in a row, it's too late.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
It's probably too late, yeah Well it's not too
late, but you don't get out.
You can't hire in one day,right, like there's a process to
do it right, or you're going tomake a bad hire and that part
takes time.
So you're exactly right on that.
This next one is too much time.
Or on low value tasks.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Right.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
And this one is so.
I had a coach teach me thisyears ago who had me figure up
what my hourly wage was and hadme put it on a big sticky note
above my monitors and he saidfor two days, I want you to go
through every single thing thatyou do and I want you to write
it down on this piece of papernext to you and we're going to
(11:44):
look at it and we're going todecide on the task you're doing
on a daily basis, if it is atthe wage that you should be
earning.
And it was a really goodexercise to start figuring out
how many things I mean early on.
I was the type of person who'slike I'm not going to ask
somebody to copy my papers.
I'm not going to ask somebodyto scan my documents, I can do
that.
To ask somebody to copy mypapers, I'm not going to ask
somebody to scan my documents, Ican do that.
(12:04):
And I felt like I was beinglike pushing it off on somebody,
right or when it was somethingthat I could do.
And this exercise was so goodfor me mentally to realize I'm
actually robbing somebody of ajob right like that could have a
job that I could be helpingprovide, because I don't want to
(12:25):
do that.
So it allowed me to change mymindset to this is not a good
use of your time once I startedreally figuring out that dollar
detail.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
Totally, and I think a good way to look at that, too,
is just that every minute orevery hour of your day is a
zero-sum game, right?
So like, if you're doing thosethings, you are taking time away
from.
The things that you could bedoing that do are higher revenue
activities, right?
(12:54):
So defining what the highrevenue activities are, what the
things aren't that are highrevenue is just another way to
kind of look at it.
I think you're saying the same,we're kind of saying the same
thing, right, but what could youpay somebody else to do?
What tasks could you paysomebody else to do at?
whatever whatever that rate isthat keeps you from doing your
(13:16):
high dollar tasks?
Because we all know there'scertain things and you need to
identify what those things are.
Try to fill your day with thosethings and let all the other
things let other people do andyeah, you're create jobs.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
So it's a win-win.
It's good, um, really good.
What about if client experienceis suffering?
So we've already kind ofcovered that above.
But you know, you're, you're.
You're not getting back toclients as quickly.
I mean, in our industry you'renot getting back to people quick
, they are moving on to the nextthing.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
Totally.
Um speed to lead?
Speaker 2 (13:46):
Yeah, and so you know it's you.
If you could really stop andlook at what business could I?
Am I potentially losing becauseI'm not efficient enough or
because I don't have a teamefficient enough?
I mean that one's pretty clear.
You know, lack of proactivecommunication will hurt anybody,
especially, you know, infast-paced industries.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Turning away business .
I mean, I don't know if I'veever done that.
I'm the person who I'll take it, but I'll figure it out, which
sometimes is not great.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
Yeah, there's probably not a lot of people out
there right now in thisindustry or in this market that
we're in that are turning awaybusiness, but if you are, it's
definitely time, well, you?
Speaker 2 (14:25):
know we could back up and think you know back when I
mean rates dropped into thethrees right.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Right.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
Like we.
We, no matter what we did, wecouldn't help everybody that
wanted help.
Like I always talk, use theanalogy about us fishing like
fish were jumping in our boat,like you know we couldn't even
stop it.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
We weren't actively turning away business.
But we were inactively turningaway business because we weren't
uh marketing to our entiredatabase, like we could have
sent during that time could havesent out a blast to our entire
database.
Hey, rates are in the twos, youshould refinance.
Get on my calendar and then youknow my database is like over
3000 people at that point, thatprobably over half of them at
(15:05):
least should have takenadvantage of that, and you don't
have the capacity, you don'tpossibly have the capacity to do
it.
So, yeah, we weren't activelyturning away business, but now,
yes, subconsciously or whateverwe were, we were absolutely
turning away business.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
That's so true.
That's so true.
Um, and then the last one we'vealready talked about too, but
burnout and no work-life balance.
So you know when you, you knowwhen your personal life is
suffering and you're constantlyexhausted.
That could be a good sign.
Now, I do think that's part ofthe grind in the beginning, you
know.
I have seen people get into thisbusiness and they're like
(15:40):
really early on, okay, I'm readyto hire.
And I think that is sometimesthe too early part.
You know, I think there issomething to be said with having
to do that and go through thatand grind for that.
But so I'm not just saying thatjust because you feel like
you're burned out, you should goout and hire somebody.
But it could be a sign.
I mean, it definitely could.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
Well, yeah, I think that not necessarily grinding,
but you need to do all of theroles right as a maybe as a solo
, as a one man show, one womanshow, whatever.
You need to have done all thoseroles to be able to effectively
train who is coming in to dothat stuff.
So, yeah, I think you, youdefinitely need to grind for a
while so you know exactly how totrain that next person anyways.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
You know it's interesting.
You say that I don't think alot of people do that anymore
and you and I've done businessfor such a long time.
Um, I mean back when we would,you would be your own processor,
you would be your own.
I mean you did it all.
And nowadays people come in ourindustries both on real estate
and mortgage, you know wherethey'll just be a showing
assistant without knowing how todo anything else, so that you
(16:45):
know that piece has changed.
But I do think you know that'svery kind of eye opening on the
differences, right, like thedifferences in the experience
and what people can get, becausewe have done all of those.
So I think there's some valueto doing that.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
Definitely.
I think that's more probablyprevalent in real estate than it
is in lending, becauseprocessing is kind of its own
separate thing right.
Like I'm not skilled to be aprocessor, whereas a realtor can
.
They can list, they can showthey, they can do the
transaction coordination.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Is it the best use of their time?
Not necessarily, I mean yeah,but it's not the best use of
your time.
Sure sure.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
I'm not a marketing guru or you know those things
where realtors, I think, try towear all the hats at the
beginning, yep, and I think thatthat's okay for a little while,
and then now let's figure out,okay, how do we start to grow
this thing beyond the one man,one woman show?
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Yep, so you know.
The next would be like who tohire, and you and I have been
talking about this, because thisis obviously just like we were
talking about completelydifferent with our industry real
estate side.
I mean, I got a good friendthat's an insurance agent and
him and I have worked togetheras he's built his team and what
that looks like.
So it's definitely going to bedifferent whenever we're talking
(18:07):
about depending on the industry, but knowing who to hire is
very, very important.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
What role to hire for .
That's what we're talking about, right and I think we decided
that we don't need to spend muchtime on this really, because if
you do everything else right, Ithink this will kind of become
pretty crystal clear in whatrole you need to fill.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
If we do the thing we talked about before, right,
where you're looking at yourhigh value, high dollar tasks
and your lower stuff that youcould pay somebody else to do,
then it's going to start topresent itself as far as like
okay, what role do I need tofill?
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Sure, but I will say, if you don't find the right
person and put them in the rightseat of the bus, that's
probably another big mistake youknow that's made is when you
hire somebody for a role thatthey don't fit for, and so going
through.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
Yeah, square peg, round hole situation.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Going for a role that they don't fit for and so going
through a square peg round holesituation, going through those
types of steps, and we're goingto kind of cover the steps to
ensure you know that you aremaking the right hire.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
So let's move over to that, and we've kind of already
talked about it when we talkedabout the hiring mistakes.
But so the first step wheneveryou're looking to make the right
hire is defining the role first, um, and then what that success
, how that role is successivelyfilled, like if you were to hire
somebody, clearly outliningtheir responsibilities, the
expectations, before you evenhire who it is.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Yeah, I'm going to show, I'm going to hire a
showing assistant, like that'swhat I've determined that I need
, right as an example.
And these are these are theexact things that I want them to
do.
This is how this is like themetrics of which what kind of I
want to be able to expect fromthem those things is that that's
yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
I will say clearly, though responsibilities and
expectations are two differentthings, and especially if
they're not spoken right and somany people are good at
responsibilities but notexpectations.
I struggle with expectationsbecause I think people should
know and that's not the casewhat somebody else expects and
what I expect are two differentthings.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
Yeah, so if you define those things a little bit
right, just to make a clearexample here, like if you give
somebody, you outline theirresponsibilities, right, they
understand their job duty, theirdetails, but they don't
necessarily know that yourexpectation is that they answer
the phone.
You know within two rings,right, or what to say, yep, what
(20:28):
your expectations are for howto perform.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Yes, all those things , yeah, it's so huge.
And so you know, people willdefine the responsibilities,
think they're all good, and thenI talked to them later and
they're like, oh, I'm struggling, this person doesn't do this.
This is well.
Do they know?
That's what you expected.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
Yeah, it's just a failure on the leader part at
all.
Put it in that responsibility.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
That's, responsibilities and
expectations are two totallydifferent things, and I think
people are really good atdefining the job roles, really
good at the responsibilities andreally bad at expectations.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
Right.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
And I I am too Like.
It's a skill I have toconstantly work at.
I tell my team, if I ask you todo something, what I'm bad
about telling them, even to thisday.
I'm bad about telling them whenI need it by what the
expectation is, and so they'retrying to help train me to be
better at that.
So what they're supposed to doif I ask them to do something
and I don't give them theexpectation of when I need it,
(21:23):
they have to respond to me andsay I'd be happy to.
When do you need it?
By?
Speaker 1 (21:29):
Gotcha yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Because I need to create the habit, because I'm
not good at the expectationpiece.
I'm aware I don't have a teamfor years.
It's just where I don't.
I'm not great at it.
So they want, I want them toteach me that and I want to be
better at it, because then oncethey know when it's needed to be
done by, they're good, they fitit in their day accordingly and
they're not guessing.
(21:51):
But what they think it is inmine is always different.
So if I'm not telling them,they feel like a failure or they
feel like they can't please meand I'm feeling like what's
wrong.
I clearly asked you what to do.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
That's just a life lesson in and of itself.
By the way, it's not just forleading people.
Marriage kids life, everything.
Make sure that people know theexpectations, because then when
you're disappointed in in peoplebut you didn't give them what
your expectations were, thenit's really your fault.
Your fault, yeah, and that hitshome for me.
(22:25):
Uh.
So we're very, very uh guiltyof that ourselves.
It's a human.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
It's a human thing, I think for sure, but I do think
you can do things to work on itoh, for sure, yeah, that's what
I was saying, like with my team,like, figure out how you can be
, try to be better at it, and Iasked them to push back on me
because I clearly I mean stilldo it.
So, um, another step to ensurethe right hire is assess their
strengths and weaknesses.
Um, this one, you know, there'sall kinds of um, um tests out
(22:55):
there.
Like, I love the disc mainlybecause it's what I was trained
on, and there's a bunch of themout there and all that stuff,
all of that stuff, um, so thoseare great.
But you know, when you go tohire somebody, people do not
talk about weaknesses.
Why would you like, like you'retrying to get a job, you show
up and you say all the greatthings about yourself.
(23:16):
But when I go throughinterviews with people, I help
interview for a lot of otherpeople, for their teams, because
I've done this so much and Ilove to just go straight.
For what do you suck at?
And it's okay, like there are,and I'll share some things I
suck at'm sure I getexpectations.
I suck at organ is like whatthey are and that's fine.
(23:37):
I'm still a really good,successful person.
But what do you suck at?
And and letting them talk aboutthat, um, I think it's a hugely
missed part of hiring andsometimes they're not always
going to be honest, let's be.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
I mean yeah, most people are like oh yeah, my
biggest flaw, you know, is thatI work too hard, or my biggest
flaw is that I care too much,you know, so you can see through
that but you know robin'salways taught us to why, why?
Speaker 2 (24:06):
right, so if you explain it, take it a couple
more steps deeper, you canactually unpeel that onion a
little bit and find out whatthose are.
Listen, everyone's going tohave weaknesses, but if we know
those upfront, like I don't wantto waste your time, chad, if
I'm trying to hire you and youdon't want to waste mine if this
is a really bad seat for you,like this doesn't isn't your
skillset.
Let's figure that out sooner,right?
Speaker 1 (24:26):
Right.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
Because if it doesn't work out, you feel like a
failure.
If it doesn't work out, I feellike a failure because I hired
the wrong person.
Like, let's just be honest atthis interview, um, and figure
out is it a good fit, Right?
You don't want to.
If it's not, either, you know.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Well, especially when you're making that first hire,
because you need to one assesswithin yourself what, what are
you, what are your biggestweaknesses to you?
Um, not just what can make youmore money, Right, but also like
what uh drains energy from youthat you do or that you just
suck at doing?
Um, drains my energy to dostuff I suck at, for sure, but
(25:02):
um, and then filling gaps inwhen, in that hire, is you're
looking for people that that'sreally what they?
excel at right Because theycould be really good for, like,
an amazing human.
They could be really good atcertain things.
But if you hire somebody thatis good at the same stuff that
you're good at and they alsosuck at the same stuff you suck
at, that you're probably gonnabe pretty good friends, but that
(25:24):
doesn't make them a great hire.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Right, well, no, it messes everything up.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Makes a pretty shitty hire yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
I mean, the people that I hire are specifically to
fill the needs where I lack.
Yeah, and that's how you get tohave that beautiful team and
the longevity, and because youget the right pieces, you know,
or the right people on the rightseat of the bus is what I
always say.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
Definitely, and it seems like when you're saying it
out loud, you're like, ofcourse, like that seems so
simple, but these are mistakesthat we have all made, because
you're going to interviewsomebody that's like oh my God,
they're so great because they'reso much like you and you're not
hiring to replace you.
(26:06):
You have a job to do.
You're hiring to fill gaps,that stuff that you suck at or
you don't want to do.
So it is a trap that peoplefall into.
A lot I've been guilty of.
That for sure is hiring peoplethat are more like me versus
people that fill fill the stuffthat is unlike me.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Yep, the the other one too, and we just said that
is making sure you're not theonly person interviewing.
You know, um, making sure thatyou have a couple of different
interviews set up.
Either if you have a team, letthem interview, or somebody
outside of your group, have themalso interviewed to look for
things that you're going to missand that that, that tech that
is so powerful and a lot of youknow groups have that where
(26:39):
they're like, okay, you have togo through a three interview
process or whatever.
There's a reason for that, andlike I fall in love with people,
like I fall in love with people, I find I look at all the
things they could be great at.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
I just see the best in everybody.
It's just your default setting.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
It's my default setting, and so I have to have
people who know that about me,who are a little bit better at
finding the weaknesses andfinding the things because I'm
like, oh, I'll look past that.
They're so good at this, Right,you know um they can be a good
reality check for you.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
And that's actually a really good interlude into the
next one, which is all aboutculture, right, Uh?
And that's actually a reallygood interlude into the next one
, which is all about culture.
Yep, right, you need to makesure that, even if they're
really good at filling thoseroles, that they're also going
to be a culture fit if you arealready have an existing team or
you're just growing one.
Right Culture is so important.
You end up spending more time Alot of times.
You spend more time with thepeople that you work with than
(27:31):
you do with your family.
That's kind of sad, but that isthe sad reality, because we're
spending eight hours sleeping,eight hours at work, you know,
and then the rest of it we'reapparently at home.
But you know, kids are all overthe place.
They're not necessarily you'renot spending every waking hour
together, so you are spending alot of time with these people.
So you got to make sure thatthey're a fit, not just with you
(27:52):
right.
But with the whole team and, um,yeah, not everybody's going to
be exactly alike, but you wantto like, you want to make sure
there's not people that come inthat have completely different
values or beliefs.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
Um, or or negativity right Like.
I mean you can get somebody so,so skilled.
But when they're negative, Imean it's a cancer and it, it is
so hard on the entire team, um,and it is.
I mean I always say it's abuzzkill, but it will just eat
at anything.
You've built, everything you'vebuilt.
(28:25):
You know, if you don't see thatearly, early on, yeah, if you
bring somebody negative in that.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
There's a study just recently I remember hearing
about, but it's like if you setpeople um with negative people
like one negative influence, andyou put it like a team of
people around them, thatperformance comes down like
immediately at a much greaterpercent.
That if you put everybodyaround like a really positive
person, like that definitelyhelps.
(28:52):
But the negative outweighs thepositive like two to one like
the Delta, yeah right.
Exactly Like the the workperformance coming down versus
work performance going up arounda positive person.
The negative one is truly acancer.
So you got to weed those peopleout.
Hopefully you weed them outbefore you hire them, but if you
do hire that person, like whenthat starts to present itself,
(29:13):
you got to make sure you can fixit or they just don't belong on
the team.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
Right, that's the stark reality.
Well, you know, they say slowto hire, quick to fire.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
And that is hard, but it is.
It's so.
I've seen myself and I've seenso people, so many people
struggle with it, but when youfinally do it, you're like, oh,
I should have done that a longtime ago.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
And then your whole team comes to you and it's like
God, well, I think you we'vebeen, we've been biting our
tongue about it.
So, yeah, be real careful aboutthat.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
So, and that is one right, use an effective
interview, interview processright Like so, go through and
it's a little bit different,obviously through Um, and it's a
little bit different, obviously, depending on the industry that
you're in.
But I always say more than oneto you know, one to three
different interviews for sure,um, and don't hire out of
desperation.
I think that is where you knowa bad hire is more costly than
(30:08):
waiting for the right person andright.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
People fall in that trap a lot, a lot because
they're like oh my God, I'm socrazy busy and you know my
wife's about to file divorcebecause I'm not around enough
and like things are going crazyand I'm a bad dad or a bad mom.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
You think that just a body is going to fix it.
And man, the wrong hire is.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
So there's temporary help for that right.
So nowadays it's so easy and wecould do a whole podcast
episode on virtual assistance orsharing help with people Like
there's so many ways to go aboutdoing that that you don't have
to commit to, you know, afull-time hire just out of
desperation.
Yes, so while you're lininggetting your ducks in a row and
(30:49):
everything, and you're doinggoing through all these other
steps to make sure that you getthe right person, um, you know,
tap into some part-time.
You'd hire part-time help.
Um, you know, with the abilityto then come full time if they
prove themselves or whatever.
Uh, you can do virtualassistance.
Uh, there's local and overseasvirtual assistance that are
(31:10):
cheap.
Uh, for temporary help andreally good.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Yeah, Like we're learning.
You and I are going through allof that right now and it's mind
blowing.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
Yeah, there's plenty of teams out there.
They're probably in a similarsituation.
Talk to your you know thegroups inside your office as a
realtor and ask them, like, areyou on the verge of needing to
hire somebody?
Do you want to look at possiblysharing some help for a little
bit?
Um, like, I think there'sinterim solutions that people
just don't think about and thenthey just, yeah, they get
desperate and they throw thewrong offer to the wrong person
(31:39):
for the wrong amount of moneyand it's ugly.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
And then we fast forward and they're they're
complaining on why?
Why am I building a team?
This isn't for me.
And they're going through allthose emotions just because we
made a step.
We did one step wrong.
Yeah yeah for sure.
So how do we avoid that?
You know, I think we've alreadygone through most of it, but it
is the setting up, the clearonboarding, the clear training,
the clear responsibility list,the clear expectation list.
(32:04):
You know, making sure that wehave all of that lined up and
that they're aware of it.
You know before you, before youhire them, that this is what
this process you know, some ofthe people that I hire for, like
I break down.
That's why I like that 30, 60,90 myself, because you're only
going to learn this amount inthe 30 day.
I'm not going to teach youeverything up front and hope you
(32:26):
do well at it.
We're going to teach this partfor 30.
And then, once we get to the 60, you're going to now take on
this much.
And then, once we get to the 60, you're going to now take on
this much.
Once we get to the 90, you'regoing to like you remember going
to the dentist when we werelittle kids and they would have
them like beads, them likesyllabuses that you could like
move.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
Oh, yeah, so.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
I think of training like that.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
An abacus.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
Abacus yes, but you'd move these over Like that's
what trainings don't look like.
I expect 30 days and this muchat the 60 days.
Um, and you'll learn, you know,some will be faster than that
and you can, you know, changethat timescale.
But really having that planonce I've I've done it many
times without and a lot moretimes with, and the width has
(33:06):
way better success rate.
Um going through these stepsand longevity, where people stay
with you and they feel likethey're part of something.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
Yeah, that's great.
Um, I think we, I think I thinkwe've hit covered it all.
Yeah, right, was there anythingelse that you wanted to touch
on on this topic?
Speaker 2 (33:22):
No, I'm good.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
Uh, I just hope it helps.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
You know, I hope people it's, it's hard.
It is hard growing a team'shard.
People are going to come,people are going to go.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
But there's resources out there.
I mean, these are not thingsthat we've come up with on our
own.
Like, we've followed certainsystems and processes, and I
need to do way better.
I think you are better at thistopic than I am, uh, for sure,
uh, and I, like I've come to youfor advice on this stuff and so
I would say reach out to peoplethat you trust.
Uh, reach out to us If you have.
If you're thinking about doingthis, uh, there is a huge amount
(33:54):
of value in doing it right, um,rather than just throwing, uh,
throwing an offer out tosomebody.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
So yeah, we'd love to help you not make some of the
same mistakes.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
Yeah, yeah, exactly so please reach out to us.
Um, but yeah, hopeful, greatgood luck with your uh next hire
.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
Um, I guess we will see you uh, just say, take the,
take the, the leap, do it.
You know um, go through thesteps right, but man it will
really.
It's, it's so much fun.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
Yeah, don't be afraid of growing.
For sure, take the leap, do it,but do it right.
So hopefully you've got somegood value on how to do it right
with this episode.
That's it for now.
We'll see you guys next time.
Thanks, guys.
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