September 11, 2025 • 26 mins
Love her or hate her, Taylor Swift has built one of the most powerful brands on the planet. Ignoring her playbook might be the biggest mistake entrepreneurs and creators can make.
In this episode, we break down why Taylor Swift is not just a pop star. She is a master strategist. From billion dollar album launches to Easter egg marketing, reinvention, fan engagement, and protecting her energy, every move is a case study in business and branding.
Even if you do not listen to her music, you will walk away with lessons on:
Building a loyal fan base (your client community)
Reinventing yourself and staying relevant in any industry
Protecting your energy so you can perform at your best
Using storytelling as the ultimate marketing superpower
Why boldness, like Travis Kelce shooting his shot, changes everything
If you are serious about growing your brand, marketing smarter, and creating raving fans, do not miss this one.
#TaylorSwift #Marketing #BrandStrategy #Entrepreneurship #Storytelling #BusinessLessons #TaylorSwiftMarketing #TaylorSwiftBusiness
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Chad (00:00):
Whether you're a Swifty, a Chiefs fan, or maybe you just
can't stand either.
One of them, taylor and Travis,just taught us a valuable
lesson that fortune favors thebold, and I think that in
business and in life in general,that's a reminder that all of
us need.
Lacey (00:15):
We can all learn from it.
Chad (00:16):
That's right.
This is the Secret SaucePodcast with Chad Treece and
Lacey Moores, where we want tohelp people build big businesses
and live big lives.
We think every episode is goingto maybe give you one
ingredient that you can add toyour recipe to create your own
secret sauce.
Let's get into it.
Okay, this is an exciting one.
(00:42):
It's, you know, in Kansas city,especially huge news.
We're filming this just daysafter the engagement of Taylor
and Travis was dropped.
Uh, I know you feel really oneway back.
Lacey (00:53):
They got engaged in Lee summit summit, which is where my
office is, where I live.
Chad (00:58):
I mean it's Kansas city in general, Like we have a lot of
pride in Travis and Taylor.
Uh, whether you do love them orhate them, they are super
polarizing and what I wanted todo is put an episode together,
because I think there are hugebusiness and life lessons that
everybody can learn If you justset your polarizing view one way
or the other aside and justlook at them from literally
(01:21):
their master class in businessand marketing expertise.
Lacey (01:26):
Just yeah, open your mind , like listen to some of this,
because I you know, I agree, Ithink in Kansas city it's funny,
but people are one way or theother.
You know, they're either a bigcheese fan and they don't like
that Swifty has been in football, or vice versa.
Screw that too, though.
Chad (01:41):
Like I have a daughter who adores Taylor Swift.
She's nine years old, right,and she will actually watch
Chiefs games.
I could never get her to watcha game before and now she's
interested.
There are girls all over theworld who are now interested in
football because of Taylor Swift.
Like the NFL should literallybe paying her millions of
dollars, but I know that's whythere's a lot of toxic
(02:01):
masculinity that is very madabout Taylor being involved in
anything being shown onbroadcast and I would say open
your mind a little shut it.
Lacey (02:10):
You would say shut it I would just say open your mind a
little bit, like listen to this,um, listen to this episode,
like go with us through this andcome with an open mind because
there's so much, like you said,and I love it, because Chad gets
pretty fired up about this.
I'm wearing my you know I'mwearing my.
Chad (02:24):
You know I'm wearing I got to get a new one.
This is my Taylor go, taylor'sboyfriend sweatshirt.
I did have.
I do have the Travis's JerseyI'm I'm to be fair, I've been a
Travis Kelsey fan for a longtime.
Lacey (02:36):
Um I am a big.
Chad (02:37):
I don't think I can call myself a Swifty.
I used to.
Then I realized just how crazedher fans are Like.
They are so obsessed.
I like huge respect, mad, madrespect for Taylor Swift.
I do really, really enjoy hermusic.
I think she's a generationaltalent.
I will argue with anybody tillthey're blue in the face that
they like she writes her ownmusic.
Lacey (02:55):
That's cool.
I mean, not many do thatanymore, right, and she's just
been a leader through andthrough.
Chad (03:05):
Every album is just banger after banger.
Like she is amazing, whetheryou like her or hate her.
Um, but I'm I would like tocall myself a swifty I.
Lacey (03:10):
I missed the opportunity when I think we'll call you a
swifty yeah, yeah, I mean, I'mwearing this sweatshirt.
Chad (03:15):
I feel like.
I feel like they would adopt me.
That's the thing.
Is that taylor's fan base is soamazing too, is that like they
love to celebrate people, likethere's no hate there, so I
don't think I would get thrownout of certain groups if I tried
to like call myself one of them.
I feel I feel like swiftieswould adopt me.
Lacey (03:33):
Um I think you're in already.
Chad (03:34):
Yeah, I'm like really upset, we didn't.
I really want to take mydaughter to the heiress tour.
I missed it and I will foreverlive with that decision.
Um, so now, hopefully she'sgoing to be going on tour again
soon, yeah, with this new albumdropping, but, um, there are
huge business lessons here.
So let's talk about theengagement first.
Lacey (03:54):
Like right away, um well, let's take it back for a second
.
So let's take it back, evenback in the very beginning, when
Travis started just talking Imean outwardly on social media
that she, he was interested inTaylor, and how how many people
were like good luck buddy, goodluck dude.
(04:14):
No way, no way, like it waseverywhere.
There ain't no way, dude, itain't going to happen.
Tell the story, though, aboutwhat he did.
Chad (04:23):
But Travis is, um, yeah, so I mean, I think the story is
definitely out there.
But you know, for anybody whodoesn't know, you know he uh
decided he was going to put hisnumber on, uh, a friendship
bracelet like that they give outat all.
You know, they traded all theconcerts and everything and he
wanted to get it to her whileshe was playing Arrowhead during
(04:43):
the heiis tour and he went tothe concert.
Like he does it, like he is aSwift fan.
First he was a Swift fan, heenjoyed her music and but did
want to shoot his shot with herLike he.
He wanted to throw it out therethat she should, she should,
yeah, that he was interested inher and she did the message and
(05:05):
not get to her.
The.
The friendship bracelet nevermade its way to her, um, but
then they were talking about iton his podcast and his camp and
her camp, like it finally got toher and she was like really
like, wow, like the, the factthat he took the time, that he
was bold enough to take thataction, made her interested
enough enough that then he saidlike hey, I did go watch you
(05:28):
rock it at Arrowhead.
I think you should come checkout me rocking it at Arrowhead
and she was interested enough tothen say OK, well, and then
they dated quietly for two weeks.
Leading up to that Everybodythought that when she went to
the game for the longest time,people thought when she went to
the game, that was like theirfirst date she went to the game
for the longest time.
People thought when she went tothe game it was the first, that
that was like their first dateand, um, she's made it clear now
like she would never be thatstupid.
(05:48):
For that to be their firstinteraction would be a blind
like, not a blind date, but youknow her going to a chiefs game.
So I think it's really coolthough they were able to keep
that like huge.
Like she's in the limelighteverywhere she goes she can't
stay out of like she wouldlove'd love to be more private,
but somehow they were able tokeep that private.
They dated for a couple weeksleading up to that.
(06:09):
I just think their story isamazing.
I love, love, yep.
But the message or the lessonthere that we all need to learn
from is what if Travis wouldhave listened to everybody being
like, yeah right, buddy, nochance.
Lacey (06:23):
Listen to everybody, right.
Chad (06:25):
Or got in his own head, which we all do.
We listen to our, we listen tothe little voice in our own head
.
That's like dude, get, get real.
Like you shouldn't call thatrealtor that realtors.
You shouldn't call that builder, you shouldn't have a chance.
You shouldn't ask out thatperson, whatever it is.
We convince ourselves thatwe're not worthy of that, and
the lesson there is fortunefavors the bold right.
(06:45):
It's so good and think about-.
We all need that reminder.
We all need that reminder.
What if we all live just alittle bit more boldly?
What would our lives look like?
What does our future look like,if we just choose boldness over
vanilla, over letting peopletalk us out of things, letting
ourselves talk us out of things,right, and so, like, let's
(07:10):
learn from this.
Like the world is foreverchanged.
Their lives are certainlyforever changed, and we're all
of us now celebrating this.
Uh, like, really, reallyamazing love story, right?
But it all started with a boldmove and had he not do that, the
butterfly effect of that isthey would not even have met by
now.
Lacey (07:23):
Right right.
Chad (07:24):
None of this happens and there's a butterfly effect to
every decision that we make.
Why not make bold decisions?
What's the worst that couldhave happened?
If you know, travis chose to dothat and she wasn't interested.
What was the worst?
Lacey (07:36):
He'd be right where he was, yeah.
Chad (07:39):
I mean, yeah, like he'd been a little sad about it.
He was going to go playfootball, you know, the next
Sunday and move on with his life.
His life wasn't going to changefor the worse because of it,
but it sure has improved for thebetter.
I think it's super coolwatching the kingdom Now, the
documentary that's out to likeseeing his teammates react, in
that they were like interviewingit.
It's like there's one withChris Jones, who I just think
(08:01):
he's like a kid on camera everytime you see him, and one with
Chris Jones, who I just thinkhe's like a kid on camera every
time you see him, and yep, andhe was like they're looking
around the locker room.
He's like I think Travis justpulled Taylor Swift man.
It was like so funny to seethese huge grown men talking
about love too, like, and beinglike like excited about their
teammate, you know, falling inlove with her going going after
(08:21):
something that yeah yeah, it's,it is a huge life lesson choose
boldness.
That's just one, though.
When I started diving into thisand actually, like I love
diving into founders, and likefounders of huge companies elon
musk, steve jobs, you name itand like I study them because
there are massive businesslessons there, uh, and like you
(08:43):
know, success leaves clues right.
So, like I study thebiographies of these people, I
study the moves they make, thequotes that they say, anybody
that doesn't think that TaylorSwift is a business genius is
dead wrong.
I truly believe, if they're notdoing it right now, there will
be Harvard Business Schoolclasses on Taylor Swift's
(09:05):
business and marketing acumensomeday.
It is a masterclass, and ifthere's not anybody willing to
teach that, I will teach that.
I nominate myself to teach thatbecause there are so many
business and marketing lessonsthat we can all learn from that,
whether you love her or hateher.
Lacey (09:22):
Yeah Well, even you know.
Learn from that, whether youlove her or hate her.
Yeah Well, even you know.
You know she just did thepodcast um with Travis and man,
some of the I just I like spendsome time in some of just the
the microphone drop commentsthat she made and I mean we
could just do one chat, we coulddo one, yeah, yeah, I posted it
at the other as soon as I sawit.
The energy one the energy onelet's.
(09:43):
Let's read that, that one,because it's so good.
She said you should think ofyour energy as if it's expensive
, as if it's like a luxury item.
Not everyone can afford it.
Chad (09:55):
Mic drop Definitely.
We just don't even have to sayanything else after that.
Not everyone can afford.
It is such an amazing thing.
We worry about what peoplethink of us.
We worry about.
Lacey (10:05):
We spend so much time thinking and worrying yeah, and
anybody.
They can't afford it.
Chad (10:09):
You know how many superstars really care about
that stuff Most of them Rightand to see her on the biggest
stage in the limelight and shedoes not pay any attention.
It does not drive her decisions.
She is monomaniacally focusedon her career and now love.
But like she is, she has builta huge, huge business.
(10:31):
She's a billionaire and she hasbuilt a massive business and
that business is herself.
Lacey (10:36):
Yep.
Well, she protects her energy,she protects it, she guards her
mind, like she's put things inplace to lead with clarity and
like what she needs to do.
But not just doing those things, but now sharing.
Chad (10:49):
Yep.
Lacey (10:50):
Now being a leader, right , and stepping up and saying
some of those things.
Another thing that she said wasanything you feed your brain,
it will internalize.
Anything you feed the internet,it will kill.
Yeah, like it's there's justjust there's so much truth and
and for her to step up and saythings like that, like it's
there's wisdom.
Chad (11:08):
There's that, like people think that she's just some dumb
singer, she is brilliant, uh,and she has, she's studied.
You can tell that like she'spolished, but she has taken time
to develop this way of thinkingum that she is.
Lacey (11:25):
She's not a mindless singer like a lot of people all
while creating songs, and but,like, if you really stop and
think about, like, how huge andall the stuff that she does at
the highest level it is, it isjust, you know, extremely, um,
inspirational, but just mindblowing.
Chad (11:42):
I mean literally every album alone is like a billion
dollar case study in branding.
If you look at every albumshe's ever dropped, like the
things that she does, the Eastereggs that she puts in marketing
and in the lyrics, the way thatshe then pulls her fans in,
like it is.
Lacey (12:00):
Let's talk about that.
Chad (12:01):
You want to talk about it how?
Lacey (12:03):
she pulls her fans in, like well, you already like it
is, let's talk about that.
You want to talk about it?
How she pulls her fans in, Likewell, you already said it
earlier.
Just, I mean loyal her brand.
You know, we, we, we do.
We talk about brand all thetime Chad and our, our podcast
here but her brand, how loyalher people are like well, to be
fair, like, yes, does she putout great music?
Chad (12:20):
I sure think so, um, but there's also there's reasons
that her fans, like, are crazy.
It's like cult level, uh,following, uh.
But they love her and there's areason for it because she
interacts with them, right, sheis a absolute master of
storytelling and people engagewith that.
We've talked about storytelling.
(12:41):
We've done episodes onstorytelling.
It is a superpower.
She is a.
She is like the superhero ofsuperheroes of storytelling.
She does it through hermarketing and through her songs.
Obviously, she when writing herown music.
That's such a giftedstoryteller, just there.
But she pulls her fans in toengage with her as a storyteller
(13:02):
.
And then brand consistency Likewe just did an episode about
building your brand DNA again,masterclass in brand consistency
, taylor.
Um, you know her brand.
It's an empire built aroundstorytelling, but it's her brand
identity is transparent, like.
What I think of is transparency, emotional honesty, reinvention
, constant reinvention.
(13:22):
Every episode, every album.
She's reinventing herself andthen I think some people look at
that and they're like you know,is that is she just like?
Is this is fake?
Like oh now there's somethingelse.
No, I think that's.
I think that's the beauty ofthe human experience is that
we're constantly evolving, likewe need to be reinventing
(13:43):
ourselves.
We we need to be thinking howdo we make?
Okay, that's.
Lacey (13:46):
And stop shaming people who are like, open your mind and
like that takes so much.
Chad (13:51):
Every chapter, right, is like okay, that chapter is one,
that was great, but let's,what's the next chapter hold?
Like she is going out thereputting out all these new albums
and each one again is seriously, uh, what a master class in in
marketing and branding.
Um, she does it so well, uh,and it's calculated but it's
(14:12):
consistent.
Her messaging still isconsistent across albums, but
she reinvents herself for eachalbum just a little bit right
and you mentioned it earlier,and so I think we'll say you
didn't mention it here.
You mentioned it off, uh, offthe air.
Think we'll say it.
You didn't mention it here.
You mentioned it off, uh, offthe air to me.
But um one thing, you're a hugecountry fan and I think you're
a little conflicted because shestarted as a country.
Lacey (14:31):
No, you asked me what you like.
You're not really a Swifty andI said I'm not my.
My sister is my nieces, um, andhe, you asked me why not?
And I said, well, honestly, Idon't have anything against
Taylor, I just don't listen toher music anymore.
I listen to it all the timewhen she was country and she
left country and I just I justdon't anymore, and it's not
nothing negative.
(14:52):
But you made the mention thatthat you know that move kind of
explain the story of why shemoved out of country.
I had, I didn't even know thatstory.
Chad (15:06):
I mean, I think she was the.
There's been a bunch of people.
Lacey (15:08):
How many people have gone from?
Chad (15:08):
country to mainstream, quite a few cents, right, um,
but she was one of the one ofthe first to do that and, uh, I
think she didn't feel fully.
I I am not an expert in this,uh, in this part of it, but my
understanding is that she didn'tfeel fully embraced by the
country music industry as awhole.
There was some barriers therethat she felt like she wasn't
(15:31):
going to be able to maybeovercome, based off of the
stigmas and stuff like that, andshe didn't feel fully embraced,
I think, by that industry.
Taylor, if you're listening tothis and I'm wrong, please call
me out.
Yeah, I'll.
If you're listening to this andI'm wrong, please call you,
call me out.
Yeah, I'll, uh, I'll get you my, I'll get you.
Lacey (15:47):
I'll get you my number.
Chad (15:48):
I'll have your uh people get with with our show people
yeah.
Your camp can get with our campand we'll figure.
I mean, we're here in Kent city, so you know we're at.
Shawnee, we're at Shawneemission parkway in Lamar.
You can come down and we'llhave you on the podcast sometime
because you're just a few milesaway.
Um, but I think I I understandwhere you're coming from, but I
(16:09):
think also, like if you look atthat from a different lens, is
that that that reinvention islike okay, like that was a
chapter in her life, but thatdoesn't define who she is.
She doesn't have to be justcountry Right and then she's
gone on to become well, what ifshe would have?
Lacey (16:23):
what if she would have conformed and just stayed at
what, whatever the country,industry wanted her to be?
Yeah, then she would have neverfound all of this right and and
and done everything she's done.
I mean maybe she would have,but like at the level.
So, you know, I think it's veryimpressive to you know, like
step outside of that and goafter.
Like we keep saying, shoot yourshot right, like go for it.
(16:45):
And when you have limitationsor when you have people telling
you you can't go for it.
And I mean I can think back ona much smaller scale, but things
with me and my business that Iwas told I shouldn't do this or
I couldn't do this, and it wasthe biggest fuel that pushed me
forward, you know, to prove.
So I admire that.
Um, I think it's.
I think it's like the storyitself even if you're not a
(17:08):
Swifty is so mind blowing and soincredible.
Chad (17:11):
Yeah, when you just said it, like she shot.
Her shot many times over hercareer and I hadn't even thought
about that.
We opened with.
You know the butterfly effectof Travis shooting his shot.
But you know that's probablyone of the things that really
attracted her to him is thatshe's been shooting her shot her
entire career.
She's been breaking the moldher entire career and then to
(17:31):
see somebody be willing to dothat you know, be vulnerable and
do that for her.
Lacey (17:37):
I'm sure is probably why she ended up picking up that
phone Right.
Chad (17:41):
So, yeah, I love it.
So another thing that I put.
So I was just trying to bulletpoint out some things that I've
seen as I've studied now hercareer, business wise, Um, the
reinvention is as a business andlife strategy, like it keeps
her relevant and newsworthy.
Um, and we all need to look atthat.
Like we've all had chapterswhere we've been on top in this
(18:04):
industry and if we don'tcontinually see, okay, what's
going on with the industry now,how can I maybe get out in front
of this change?
How can I break the mold alittle bit?
You get really stuck and all ofa sudden you are behind the
curve right, she makes the curve.
So I think we all can learn forthat Like, get out there, make
(18:24):
that Cause.
Like, if you don't, you don'thave to follow in anybody else's
footsteps.
Go create your own path,reinvent yourself, and I I think
that's a huge life lesson.
Um, her fan engagement andcommunity building Uh, if you
look at that, it's somethingthat, as business owners,
(18:44):
everybody should be doing.
How do you then to your fanbase?
Is your database?
Is your like the people thatyou that hopefully know, like
and trust you, or they've donebusiness with you before?
Right, what are you actuallydoing with them?
The way she engages with themand brings them in, they adore
(19:05):
her for it Well you.
What can we learn from that?
Lacey (19:08):
Right.
Chad (19:09):
Right, yeah, she's got that cult level fan base because
of the way that she does pullthem all in.
So think about in our marketingevery day, what little things
can we take from that and startdoing.
How do we pull our customersback in?
How do we create some Eastereggs?
So, like, how do we?
I think about it with like whenpeople close alone with us,
(19:30):
they, we give them the signsbehind you the big version of it
but the little smaller, likeKansas city Western auto sign.
Like how stupid it is of methat I've never taken the time
now to be like hey, show uswhere this is in your house and
we'll do a giveaway.
And like pull people back in.
Right, look at foropportunities to continually
(19:51):
pull your people back in, notjust when they are ready to buy
a house or anything but just inlife in general.
How do you?
Lacey (19:58):
keep them checked in.
You said that she interacts.
You know what I mean.
She's constantly interactingwith her following, Like it's,
and that's what makes them sodrawn.
Chad (20:07):
Yeah.
Lacey (20:07):
They can't wait for her to do it again.
Chad (20:09):
And I think one thing that I really yeah, they can't wait
for her to do it again.
And I think one thing that Ireally and like, maybe we leave
it here.
I don't want to go completelyoverboard, Cause I think I could
go on an hour plus diatribewith you're going to teach the
Harvard class.
I know, yeah, um, I think theher obsession with the creative
(20:31):
process, so like, from writingher songs to the reinvention, to
all the little things she does,that I mean even just her, her
going on the pod, the newheights podcast, the way in
which she did that and hadlittle Easter eggs in the
background and then released thealbum, like that, the creative
process that she went through tofigure out okay, how am I going
(20:54):
to make this title and tie itall in and do it on a football
podcast, of all things, which isa little tongue in cheek with
all the football fans that don'twant to see her as much.
And I just I'm obsessed with herobsession with the creative
process and I think that's why Ilove this podcast.
(21:16):
Like we're not trying to becomeprofessional podcasters, right,
like I never envisioned thatwith this, but I geek out and
I'm obsessed with the creativeprocess of figuring out how do
we bring some value to people,how do we make this interesting,
how do I put a thumbnail on theYouTube video?
Like I don't know anythingabout this, but I've become
(21:38):
obsessed with learning it andthere's so much power in that.
Like to be obsessed with acreative process in something is
it fuels you energy wise?
Lacey (21:48):
Yeah, it lights you up.
Chad (21:49):
So like find that whatever it is that gets you going.
Find wise.
Yeah, it lights you up, yeah.
So, like, find that, whateverit is Get you going that gets
you going.
Find something that can pullyour creative process out.
Like that you can be obsessedwith creating something or the
creative act of something.
You are living life on fire whenyou're doing that and there's a
reason why she is in the zone,why she is like people are just
(22:10):
drawn to her, because she isobsessed with the creative
process and that is fueling herfire.
And when, when people areliving their life by design and
doing everything that lightsthem up, you are automatically
people are drawn to it, right?
So, um, fine, if you have notfound that thing, take
(22:31):
inspiration from Taylor in thatUm, and, at the very least,
honor that like that creativeprocess is so, um, freeing.
Uh yeah, exactly so, Taylor.
Thanks for all of theinspiration.
I will like I'm going to endwith a quick story.
Um, I I've I met Travis Kelseyright at the very beginning of
his career.
He I'm going to end with aquick story.
(22:52):
Um, I I've I met Travis Kelseyright at the very beginning of
his career.
He, I'm sure, probably does notremember this, uh, but he may
remember the actual setup of it.
He won't remember me, I'm sure,in this, but, um, he was just
coming off his rookie season,Right, and um, he was pretty
cocky back then, Um, but alwaysknew that he he belonged, he
(23:17):
always knew he was, he hadsomething special, but he's
always also been very availablefor family, Like he's very
people love him, His teammateslove him.
He is not, uh, he is big andboisterous and everything but
with this like playfulness,Right, and I remember meeting
him.
Um, we this was, I mean, it wasjust pushing 15 years ago,
(23:38):
somewhere between 10, 15 yearsago Uh, we were at the big 12
tournament downtown at power andlight and, uh, me and my
friends used to this was mysingle era, Um and we used to
party pretty hard for the big 12tournament and we, um had a
friend who had a connection atMcFadden's and we had this
little roped off area likevelvet rope roped off area where
everybody else is likesqueezing in to get drinks.
(23:59):
And we had this like roped offarea and Travis comes walking
into McFadden's and he's justdrawn to the velvet rope.
I think he's kind of like, well, that must be for me, Right?
And uh, so there's a smallgroup of us hanging out and he
comes over and he's like, hey,man, is this for me?
Uh, kind of joking around,obviously, but uh, he didn't
want to stand there and it'd beshoulder to shoulder with people
(24:20):
having to wait for a beer.
And of course we invited him inand um, spent a couple hours
with him that day, just likelearning more about him.
He was sharing old stories from, uh, you know, his college days
and then getting drafted, andlike he was super just on the
level, not trying to throw hisweight around, Like he waited
(24:41):
for us to invite him back thereand then just hung out with us.
And it was just one of the guysand I've always remembered that
.
It's why I buy his Jersey overanybody else, Because because,
again, like Taylor, he isrelatable, he is a genuine good
dude.
No matter his ego, whatever Hisego is not over the top.
(25:05):
He knows that he is great, butyou have to If you're going to
play at that level.
You've got to know and I thinkwe all can learn from that too
Like, yes, we got to keep ourego in check but at the same
time, be relatable to people,but know your power, know your
superpower and lean into it.
Like he understands how greathe is at things but also is an
(25:28):
everyday dude, and I thinkthat's a masterclass and how we
should all live life.
Lacey (25:33):
So love it I think we could leave it with that.
I think it was wrapped it up.
That was good.
Chad (25:38):
Yeah, well, they're both invited on the podcast anytime.
So I'm welcome.
I'll go on the new heightssometime too.
I mean I think I have time.
But um, all right, guys, thanksfor listening.
Thanks for uh.
Hopefully, you know, I didn'tannoy you too much with all my
Taylor Swift um adoration.
But uh, let's learn somelessons here.
That's all.
(25:58):
That's all I'm saying.
Love her, love them or hatethem.
Let's learn some lessons.
And, um, yeah, we'll be back ina couple of weeks to talk more
about Travis and Taylor.
Lacey (26:05):
Thanks guys.
Whether you're a Swifty, a Chiefs fan, or maybe you just
can't stand either.
One of them, taylor and Travis,just taught us a valuable
lesson that fortune favors thebold, and I think that in
business and in life in general,that's a reminder that all of
us need.
Lacey (00:15):
We can all learn from it.
Chad (00:16):
That's right.
This is the Secret SaucePodcast with Chad Treece and
Lacey Moores, where we want tohelp people build big businesses
and live big lives.
We think every episode is goingto maybe give you one
ingredient that you can add toyour recipe to create your own
secret sauce.
Let's get into it.
Okay, this is an exciting one.
(00:42):
It's, you know, in Kansas city,especially huge news.
We're filming this just daysafter the engagement of Taylor
and Travis was dropped.
Uh, I know you feel really oneway back.
Lacey (00:53):
They got engaged in Lee summit summit, which is where my
office is, where I live.
Chad (00:58):
I mean it's Kansas city in general, Like we have a lot of
pride in Travis and Taylor.
Uh, whether you do love them orhate them, they are super
polarizing and what I wanted todo is put an episode together,
because I think there are hugebusiness and life lessons that
everybody can learn If you justset your polarizing view one way
or the other aside and justlook at them from literally
(01:21):
their master class in businessand marketing expertise.
Lacey (01:26):
Just yeah, open your mind , like listen to some of this,
because I you know, I agree, Ithink in Kansas city it's funny,
but people are one way or theother.
You know, they're either a bigcheese fan and they don't like
that Swifty has been in football, or vice versa.
Screw that too, though.
Chad (01:41):
Like I have a daughter who adores Taylor Swift.
She's nine years old, right,and she will actually watch
Chiefs games.
I could never get her to watcha game before and now she's
interested.
There are girls all over theworld who are now interested in
football because of Taylor Swift.
Like the NFL should literallybe paying her millions of
dollars, but I know that's whythere's a lot of toxic
(02:01):
masculinity that is very madabout Taylor being involved in
anything being shown onbroadcast and I would say open
your mind a little shut it.
Lacey (02:10):
You would say shut it I would just say open your mind a
little bit, like listen to this,um, listen to this episode,
like go with us through this andcome with an open mind because
there's so much, like you said,and I love it, because Chad gets
pretty fired up about this.
I'm wearing my you know I'mwearing my.
Chad (02:24):
You know I'm wearing I got to get a new one.
This is my Taylor go, taylor'sboyfriend sweatshirt.
I did have.
I do have the Travis's JerseyI'm I'm to be fair, I've been a
Travis Kelsey fan for a longtime.
Lacey (02:36):
Um I am a big.
Chad (02:37):
I don't think I can call myself a Swifty.
I used to.
Then I realized just how crazedher fans are Like.
They are so obsessed.
I like huge respect, mad, madrespect for Taylor Swift.
I do really, really enjoy hermusic.
I think she's a generationaltalent.
I will argue with anybody tillthey're blue in the face that
they like she writes her ownmusic.
Lacey (02:55):
That's cool.
I mean, not many do thatanymore, right, and she's just
been a leader through andthrough.
Chad (03:05):
Every album is just banger after banger.
Like she is amazing, whetheryou like her or hate her.
Um, but I'm I would like tocall myself a swifty I.
Lacey (03:10):
I missed the opportunity when I think we'll call you a
swifty yeah, yeah, I mean, I'mwearing this sweatshirt.
Chad (03:15):
I feel like.
I feel like they would adopt me.
That's the thing.
Is that taylor's fan base is soamazing too, is that like they
love to celebrate people, likethere's no hate there, so I
don't think I would get thrownout of certain groups if I tried
to like call myself one of them.
I feel I feel like swiftieswould adopt me.
Lacey (03:33):
Um I think you're in already.
Chad (03:34):
Yeah, I'm like really upset, we didn't.
I really want to take mydaughter to the heiress tour.
I missed it and I will foreverlive with that decision.
Um, so now, hopefully she'sgoing to be going on tour again
soon, yeah, with this new albumdropping, but, um, there are
huge business lessons here.
So let's talk about theengagement first.
Lacey (03:54):
Like right away, um well, let's take it back for a second
.
So let's take it back, evenback in the very beginning, when
Travis started just talking Imean outwardly on social media
that she, he was interested inTaylor, and how how many people
were like good luck buddy, goodluck dude.
(04:14):
No way, no way, like it waseverywhere.
There ain't no way, dude, itain't going to happen.
Tell the story, though, aboutwhat he did.
Chad (04:23):
But Travis is, um, yeah, so I mean, I think the story is
definitely out there.
But you know, for anybody whodoesn't know, you know he uh
decided he was going to put hisnumber on, uh, a friendship
bracelet like that they give outat all.
You know, they traded all theconcerts and everything and he
wanted to get it to her whileshe was playing Arrowhead during
(04:43):
the heiis tour and he went tothe concert.
Like he does it, like he is aSwift fan.
First he was a Swift fan, heenjoyed her music and but did
want to shoot his shot with herLike he.
He wanted to throw it out therethat she should, she should,
yeah, that he was interested inher and she did the message and
(05:05):
not get to her.
The.
The friendship bracelet nevermade its way to her, um, but
then they were talking about iton his podcast and his camp and
her camp, like it finally got toher and she was like really
like, wow, like the, the factthat he took the time, that he
was bold enough to take thataction, made her interested
enough enough that then he saidlike hey, I did go watch you
(05:28):
rock it at Arrowhead.
I think you should come checkout me rocking it at Arrowhead
and she was interested enough tothen say OK, well, and then
they dated quietly for two weeks.
Leading up to that Everybodythought that when she went to
the game for the longest time,people thought when she went to
the game, that was like theirfirst date she went to the game
for the longest time.
People thought when she went tothe game it was the first, that
that was like their first dateand, um, she's made it clear now
like she would never be thatstupid.
(05:48):
For that to be their firstinteraction would be a blind
like, not a blind date, but youknow her going to a chiefs game.
So I think it's really coolthough they were able to keep
that like huge.
Like she's in the limelighteverywhere she goes she can't
stay out of like she wouldlove'd love to be more private,
but somehow they were able tokeep that private.
They dated for a couple weeksleading up to that.
(06:09):
I just think their story isamazing.
I love, love, yep.
But the message or the lessonthere that we all need to learn
from is what if Travis wouldhave listened to everybody being
like, yeah right, buddy, nochance.
Lacey (06:23):
Listen to everybody, right.
Chad (06:25):
Or got in his own head, which we all do.
We listen to our, we listen tothe little voice in our own head
.
That's like dude, get, get real.
Like you shouldn't call thatrealtor that realtors.
You shouldn't call that builder, you shouldn't have a chance.
You shouldn't ask out thatperson, whatever it is.
We convince ourselves thatwe're not worthy of that, and
the lesson there is fortunefavors the bold right.
(06:45):
It's so good and think about-.
We all need that reminder.
We all need that reminder.
What if we all live just alittle bit more boldly?
What would our lives look like?
What does our future look like,if we just choose boldness over
vanilla, over letting peopletalk us out of things, letting
ourselves talk us out of things,right, and so, like, let's
(07:10):
learn from this.
Like the world is foreverchanged.
Their lives are certainlyforever changed, and we're all
of us now celebrating this.
Uh, like, really, reallyamazing love story, right?
But it all started with a boldmove and had he not do that, the
butterfly effect of that isthey would not even have met by
now.
Lacey (07:23):
Right right.
Chad (07:24):
None of this happens and there's a butterfly effect to
every decision that we make.
Why not make bold decisions?
What's the worst that couldhave happened?
If you know, travis chose to dothat and she wasn't interested.
What was the worst?
Lacey (07:36):
He'd be right where he was, yeah.
Chad (07:39):
I mean, yeah, like he'd been a little sad about it.
He was going to go playfootball, you know, the next
Sunday and move on with his life.
His life wasn't going to changefor the worse because of it,
but it sure has improved for thebetter.
I think it's super coolwatching the kingdom Now, the
documentary that's out to likeseeing his teammates react, in
that they were like interviewingit.
It's like there's one withChris Jones, who I just think
(08:01):
he's like a kid on camera everytime you see him, and one with
Chris Jones, who I just thinkhe's like a kid on camera every
time you see him, and yep, andhe was like they're looking
around the locker room.
He's like I think Travis justpulled Taylor Swift man.
It was like so funny to seethese huge grown men talking
about love too, like, and beinglike like excited about their
teammate, you know, falling inlove with her going going after
(08:21):
something that yeah yeah, it's,it is a huge life lesson choose
boldness.
That's just one, though.
When I started diving into thisand actually, like I love
diving into founders, and likefounders of huge companies elon
musk, steve jobs, you name itand like I study them because
there are massive businesslessons there, uh, and like you
(08:43):
know, success leaves clues right.
So, like I study thebiographies of these people, I
study the moves they make, thequotes that they say, anybody
that doesn't think that TaylorSwift is a business genius is
dead wrong.
I truly believe, if they're notdoing it right now, there will
be Harvard Business Schoolclasses on Taylor Swift's
(09:05):
business and marketing acumensomeday.
It is a masterclass, and ifthere's not anybody willing to
teach that, I will teach that.
I nominate myself to teach thatbecause there are so many
business and marketing lessonsthat we can all learn from that,
whether you love her or hateher.
Lacey (09:22):
Yeah Well, even you know.
Learn from that, whether youlove her or hate her.
Yeah Well, even you know.
You know she just did thepodcast um with Travis and man,
some of the I just I like spendsome time in some of just the
the microphone drop commentsthat she made and I mean we
could just do one chat, we coulddo one, yeah, yeah, I posted it
at the other as soon as I sawit.
The energy one the energy onelet's.
(09:43):
Let's read that, that one,because it's so good.
She said you should think ofyour energy as if it's expensive
, as if it's like a luxury item.
Not everyone can afford it.
Chad (09:55):
Mic drop Definitely.
We just don't even have to sayanything else after that.
Not everyone can afford.
It is such an amazing thing.
We worry about what peoplethink of us.
We worry about.
Lacey (10:05):
We spend so much time thinking and worrying yeah, and
anybody.
They can't afford it.
Chad (10:09):
You know how many superstars really care about
that stuff Most of them Rightand to see her on the biggest
stage in the limelight and shedoes not pay any attention.
It does not drive her decisions.
She is monomaniacally focusedon her career and now love.
But like she is, she has builta huge, huge business.
(10:31):
She's a billionaire and she hasbuilt a massive business and
that business is herself.
Lacey (10:36):
Yep.
Well, she protects her energy,she protects it, she guards her
mind, like she's put things inplace to lead with clarity and
like what she needs to do.
But not just doing those things, but now sharing.
Chad (10:49):
Yep.
Lacey (10:50):
Now being a leader, right , and stepping up and saying
some of those things.
Another thing that she said wasanything you feed your brain,
it will internalize.
Anything you feed the internet,it will kill.
Yeah, like it's there's justjust there's so much truth and
and for her to step up and saythings like that, like it's
there's wisdom.
Chad (11:08):
There's that, like people think that she's just some dumb
singer, she is brilliant, uh,and she has, she's studied.
You can tell that like she'spolished, but she has taken time
to develop this way of thinkingum that she is.
Lacey (11:25):
She's not a mindless singer like a lot of people all
while creating songs, and but,like, if you really stop and
think about, like, how huge andall the stuff that she does at
the highest level it is, it isjust, you know, extremely, um,
inspirational, but just mindblowing.
Chad (11:42):
I mean literally every album alone is like a billion
dollar case study in branding.
If you look at every albumshe's ever dropped, like the
things that she does, the Eastereggs that she puts in marketing
and in the lyrics, the way thatshe then pulls her fans in,
like it is.
Lacey (12:00):
Let's talk about that.
Chad (12:01):
You want to talk about it how?
Lacey (12:03):
she pulls her fans in, like well, you already like it
is, let's talk about that.
You want to talk about it?
How she pulls her fans in, Likewell, you already said it
earlier.
Just, I mean loyal her brand.
You know, we, we, we do.
We talk about brand all thetime Chad and our, our podcast
here but her brand, how loyalher people are like well, to be
fair, like, yes, does she putout great music?
Chad (12:20):
I sure think so, um, but there's also there's reasons
that her fans, like, are crazy.
It's like cult level, uh,following, uh.
But they love her and there's areason for it because she
interacts with them, right, sheis a absolute master of
storytelling and people engagewith that.
We've talked about storytelling.
(12:41):
We've done episodes onstorytelling.
It is a superpower.
She is a.
She is like the superhero ofsuperheroes of storytelling.
She does it through hermarketing and through her songs.
Obviously, she when writing herown music.
That's such a giftedstoryteller, just there.
But she pulls her fans in toengage with her as a storyteller
(13:02):
.
And then brand consistency Likewe just did an episode about
building your brand DNA again,masterclass in brand consistency
, taylor.
Um, you know her brand.
It's an empire built aroundstorytelling, but it's her brand
identity is transparent, like.
What I think of is transparency, emotional honesty, reinvention
, constant reinvention.
(13:22):
Every episode, every album.
She's reinventing herself andthen I think some people look at
that and they're like you know,is that is she just like?
Is this is fake?
Like oh now there's somethingelse.
No, I think that's.
I think that's the beauty ofthe human experience is that
we're constantly evolving, likewe need to be reinventing
(13:43):
ourselves.
We we need to be thinking howdo we make?
Okay, that's.
Lacey (13:46):
And stop shaming people who are like, open your mind and
like that takes so much.
Chad (13:51):
Every chapter, right, is like okay, that chapter is one,
that was great, but let's,what's the next chapter hold?
Like she is going out thereputting out all these new albums
and each one again is seriously, uh, what a master class in in
marketing and branding.
Um, she does it so well, uh,and it's calculated but it's
(14:12):
consistent.
Her messaging still isconsistent across albums, but
she reinvents herself for eachalbum just a little bit right
and you mentioned it earlier,and so I think we'll say you
didn't mention it here.
You mentioned it off, uh, offthe air.
Think we'll say it.
You didn't mention it here.
You mentioned it off, uh, offthe air to me.
But um one thing, you're a hugecountry fan and I think you're
a little conflicted because shestarted as a country.
Lacey (14:31):
No, you asked me what you like.
You're not really a Swifty andI said I'm not my.
My sister is my nieces, um, andhe, you asked me why not?
And I said, well, honestly, Idon't have anything against
Taylor, I just don't listen toher music anymore.
I listen to it all the timewhen she was country and she
left country and I just I justdon't anymore, and it's not
nothing negative.
(14:52):
But you made the mention thatthat you know that move kind of
explain the story of why shemoved out of country.
I had, I didn't even know thatstory.
Chad (15:06):
I mean, I think she was the.
There's been a bunch of people.
Lacey (15:08):
How many people have gone from?
Chad (15:08):
country to mainstream, quite a few cents, right, um,
but she was one of the one ofthe first to do that and, uh, I
think she didn't feel fully.
I I am not an expert in this,uh, in this part of it, but my
understanding is that she didn'tfeel fully embraced by the
country music industry as awhole.
There was some barriers therethat she felt like she wasn't
(15:31):
going to be able to maybeovercome, based off of the
stigmas and stuff like that, andshe didn't feel fully embraced,
I think, by that industry.
Taylor, if you're listening tothis and I'm wrong, please call
me out.
Yeah, I'll.
If you're listening to this andI'm wrong, please call you,
call me out.
Yeah, I'll, uh, I'll get you my, I'll get you.
Lacey (15:47):
I'll get you my number.
Chad (15:48):
I'll have your uh people get with with our show people
yeah.
Your camp can get with our campand we'll figure.
I mean, we're here in Kent city, so you know we're at.
Shawnee, we're at Shawneemission parkway in Lamar.
You can come down and we'llhave you on the podcast sometime
because you're just a few milesaway.
Um, but I think I I understandwhere you're coming from, but I
(16:09):
think also, like if you look atthat from a different lens, is
that that that reinvention islike okay, like that was a
chapter in her life, but thatdoesn't define who she is.
She doesn't have to be justcountry Right and then she's
gone on to become well, what ifshe would have?
Lacey (16:23):
what if she would have conformed and just stayed at
what, whatever the country,industry wanted her to be?
Yeah, then she would have neverfound all of this right and and
and done everything she's done.
I mean maybe she would have,but like at the level.
So, you know, I think it's veryimpressive to you know, like
step outside of that and goafter.
Like we keep saying, shoot yourshot right, like go for it.
(16:45):
And when you have limitationsor when you have people telling
you you can't go for it.
And I mean I can think back ona much smaller scale, but things
with me and my business that Iwas told I shouldn't do this or
I couldn't do this, and it wasthe biggest fuel that pushed me
forward, you know, to prove.
So I admire that.
Um, I think it's.
I think it's like the storyitself even if you're not a
(17:08):
Swifty is so mind blowing and soincredible.
Chad (17:11):
Yeah, when you just said it, like she shot.
Her shot many times over hercareer and I hadn't even thought
about that.
We opened with.
You know the butterfly effectof Travis shooting his shot.
But you know that's probablyone of the things that really
attracted her to him is thatshe's been shooting her shot her
entire career.
She's been breaking the moldher entire career and then to
(17:31):
see somebody be willing to dothat you know, be vulnerable and
do that for her.
Lacey (17:37):
I'm sure is probably why she ended up picking up that
phone Right.
Chad (17:41):
So, yeah, I love it.
So another thing that I put.
So I was just trying to bulletpoint out some things that I've
seen as I've studied now hercareer, business wise, Um, the
reinvention is as a business andlife strategy, like it keeps
her relevant and newsworthy.
Um, and we all need to look atthat.
Like we've all had chapterswhere we've been on top in this
(18:04):
industry and if we don'tcontinually see, okay, what's
going on with the industry now,how can I maybe get out in front
of this change?
How can I break the mold alittle bit?
You get really stuck and all ofa sudden you are behind the
curve right, she makes the curve.
So I think we all can learn forthat Like, get out there, make
(18:24):
that Cause.
Like, if you don't, you don'thave to follow in anybody else's
footsteps.
Go create your own path,reinvent yourself, and I I think
that's a huge life lesson.
Um, her fan engagement andcommunity building Uh, if you
look at that, it's somethingthat, as business owners,
(18:44):
everybody should be doing.
How do you then to your fanbase?
Is your database?
Is your like the people thatyou that hopefully know, like
and trust you, or they've donebusiness with you before?
Right, what are you actuallydoing with them?
The way she engages with themand brings them in, they adore
(19:05):
her for it Well you.
What can we learn from that?
Lacey (19:08):
Right.
Chad (19:09):
Right, yeah, she's got that cult level fan base because
of the way that she does pullthem all in.
So think about in our marketingevery day, what little things
can we take from that and startdoing.
How do we pull our customersback in?
How do we create some Eastereggs?
So, like, how do we?
I think about it with like whenpeople close alone with us,
(19:30):
they, we give them the signsbehind you the big version of it
but the little smaller, likeKansas city Western auto sign.
Like how stupid it is of methat I've never taken the time
now to be like hey, show uswhere this is in your house and
we'll do a giveaway.
And like pull people back in.
Right, look at foropportunities to continually
(19:51):
pull your people back in, notjust when they are ready to buy
a house or anything but just inlife in general.
How do you?
Lacey (19:58):
keep them checked in.
You said that she interacts.
You know what I mean.
She's constantly interactingwith her following, Like it's,
and that's what makes them sodrawn.
Chad (20:07):
Yeah.
Lacey (20:07):
They can't wait for her to do it again.
Chad (20:09):
And I think one thing that I really yeah, they can't wait
for her to do it again.
And I think one thing that Ireally and like, maybe we leave
it here.
I don't want to go completelyoverboard, Cause I think I could
go on an hour plus diatribewith you're going to teach the
Harvard class.
I know, yeah, um, I think theher obsession with the creative
(20:31):
process, so like, from writingher songs to the reinvention, to
all the little things she does,that I mean even just her, her
going on the pod, the newheights podcast, the way in
which she did that and hadlittle Easter eggs in the
background and then released thealbum, like that, the creative
process that she went through tofigure out okay, how am I going
(20:54):
to make this title and tie itall in and do it on a football
podcast, of all things, which isa little tongue in cheek with
all the football fans that don'twant to see her as much.
And I just I'm obsessed with herobsession with the creative
process and I think that's why Ilove this podcast.
(21:16):
Like we're not trying to becomeprofessional podcasters, right,
like I never envisioned thatwith this, but I geek out and
I'm obsessed with the creativeprocess of figuring out how do
we bring some value to people,how do we make this interesting,
how do I put a thumbnail on theYouTube video?
Like I don't know anythingabout this, but I've become
(21:38):
obsessed with learning it andthere's so much power in that.
Like to be obsessed with acreative process in something is
it fuels you energy wise?
Lacey (21:48):
Yeah, it lights you up.
Chad (21:49):
So like find that whatever it is that gets you going.
Find wise.
Yeah, it lights you up, yeah.
So, like, find that, whateverit is Get you going that gets
you going.
Find something that can pullyour creative process out.
Like that you can be obsessedwith creating something or the
creative act of something.
You are living life on fire whenyou're doing that and there's a
reason why she is in the zone,why she is like people are just
(22:10):
drawn to her, because she isobsessed with the creative
process and that is fueling herfire.
And when, when people areliving their life by design and
doing everything that lightsthem up, you are automatically
people are drawn to it, right?
So, um, fine, if you have notfound that thing, take
(22:31):
inspiration from Taylor in thatUm, and, at the very least,
honor that like that creativeprocess is so, um, freeing.
Uh yeah, exactly so, Taylor.
Thanks for all of theinspiration.
I will like I'm going to endwith a quick story.
Um, I I've I met Travis Kelseyright at the very beginning of
his career.
He I'm going to end with aquick story.
(22:52):
Um, I I've I met Travis Kelseyright at the very beginning of
his career.
He, I'm sure, probably does notremember this, uh, but he may
remember the actual setup of it.
He won't remember me, I'm sure,in this, but, um, he was just
coming off his rookie season,Right, and um, he was pretty
cocky back then, Um, but alwaysknew that he he belonged, he
(23:17):
always knew he was, he hadsomething special, but he's
always also been very availablefor family, Like he's very
people love him, His teammateslove him.
He is not, uh, he is big andboisterous and everything but
with this like playfulness,Right, and I remember meeting
him.
Um, we this was, I mean, it wasjust pushing 15 years ago,
(23:38):
somewhere between 10, 15 yearsago Uh, we were at the big 12
tournament downtown at power andlight and, uh, me and my
friends used to this was mysingle era, Um and we used to
party pretty hard for the big 12tournament and we, um had a
friend who had a connection atMcFadden's and we had this
little roped off area likevelvet rope roped off area where
everybody else is likesqueezing in to get drinks.
(23:59):
And we had this like roped offarea and Travis comes walking
into McFadden's and he's justdrawn to the velvet rope.
I think he's kind of like, well, that must be for me, Right?
And uh, so there's a smallgroup of us hanging out and he
comes over and he's like, hey,man, is this for me?
Uh, kind of joking around,obviously, but uh, he didn't
want to stand there and it'd beshoulder to shoulder with people
(24:20):
having to wait for a beer.
And of course we invited him inand um, spent a couple hours
with him that day, just likelearning more about him.
He was sharing old stories from, uh, you know, his college days
and then getting drafted, andlike he was super just on the
level, not trying to throw hisweight around, Like he waited
(24:41):
for us to invite him back thereand then just hung out with us.
And it was just one of the guysand I've always remembered that
.
It's why I buy his Jersey overanybody else, Because because,
again, like Taylor, he isrelatable, he is a genuine good
dude.
No matter his ego, whatever Hisego is not over the top.
(25:05):
He knows that he is great, butyou have to If you're going to
play at that level.
You've got to know and I thinkwe all can learn from that too
Like, yes, we got to keep ourego in check but at the same
time, be relatable to people,but know your power, know your
superpower and lean into it.
Like he understands how greathe is at things but also is an
(25:28):
everyday dude, and I thinkthat's a masterclass and how we
should all live life.
Lacey (25:33):
So love it I think we could leave it with that.
I think it was wrapped it up.
That was good.
Chad (25:38):
Yeah, well, they're both invited on the podcast anytime.
So I'm welcome.
I'll go on the new heightssometime too.
I mean I think I have time.
But um, all right, guys, thanksfor listening.
Thanks for uh.
Hopefully, you know, I didn'tannoy you too much with all my
Taylor Swift um adoration.
But uh, let's learn somelessons here.
That's all.
(25:58):
That's all I'm saying.
Love her, love them or hatethem.
Let's learn some lessons.
And, um, yeah, we'll be back ina couple of weeks to talk more
about Travis and Taylor.
Lacey (26:05):
Thanks guys.
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