February 20, 2025 • 44 mins
Tune in for this episode from the SEEK podcast stage in Salt Lake City, where Mari and Trey Wagner dive into the profound benefits of weaving faith into daily life. They discuss key spiritual practices such as the Liturgy of the Hours and Lectio Divina that strengthen their bond, highlight the role of effective communication in dating, and provide useful tips for enhancing relationships through faith. Sharing their personal story from building a friendship to forming a marriage, they focus on the importance of discernment, chastity, and aligning with God’s plan for a rewarding, faith-driven relationship. Listen to learn practical ways to cultivate a deeply connected, spiritual relationship.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to the Seek 25 podcast, featuring some of
our favorite podcasters recordedlive at the Max Studios podcast
stage during Seek 25 in SaltLake City.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Hello everybody, how are we doing?
Woo, amazing Welcome to theEverbee podcast.
Hello everybody, how are wedoing?
Amazing Welcome to the Everbeepodcast.
We are so pumped to be herewith you guys live.
We record or mostly I recordevery week and it's just me up
in my loft talking to my cameraby myself.
So it is so amazing to seeevery single one of your faces
(00:40):
that I get to speak to everysingle week.
This week we have my mostfavorite guest that I get to
bring on the podcast, my husbandTrey, hello everybody.
So whenever I meet a fellowlistener, I ask them like what
has resonated with you most fromthe podcast?
Because it's encouraging for me, I want to know what's hitting
home and like nine times out of10, people say I love your love
(01:04):
story.
I love when Trey comes on thepodcast.
Like people want to hear whatgood Catholic men have to say.
Right, and so I thought wewould bring him on today.
It took a little bit ofconvincing, but he is here, so
let's give Trey a warm welcome.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Hey everybody, so happy to be here.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Awesome.
So today we're going to bedoing a live Q&A.
We're pumped, we're a littlebit nervous because these are
brand new questions and we'relike, okay, come Holy Spirit.
Hopefully we can give the bestadvice that we can, and
hopefully it's the Lord's words,not ours.
But we're going to be chattingabout God-centered relationships
, how to have a holyrelationship, how to know, like,
is he really the one?
Is this what the Lord's callingme to do?
(01:43):
So we're just going to getright into it and start it off
with the very first question.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
Hold on before you start.
Okay, go ahead.
I am very thankful that we gotto screen some of these or just
read them first, because youasked some good questions and it
gave me some time to think, sothat was a good move on our end.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Yes, absolutely Okay.
Question number one what doyour daily spiritual lives look
like from morning to end?
This is a great question.
I'm excited to answer thisbecause this is the foundation
of what a God-centeredrelationship is really going to
thrive from.
So, Trey, do you want to talkabout your spiritual life?
Speaker 3 (02:17):
Well, it depends.
Is it a good day or a bad day?
So I feel like on a good day Iwake up and I try to do a
morning offering and I godownstairs and make a cup of
coffee and watch the sun riseout our window and pray what?
Speaker 2 (02:34):
do you pray with Very ?
Speaker 3 (02:35):
simple Either the Liturgy of the Hours, morning
prayer I love that a lot LectioDivina with scripture, or I'll
just journal.
I have to journal to process.
I'm a very slow processor andso journaling helps me a lot but
then, yeah, it's justindividual prayer, and then the
day starts.
(02:55):
I'll be honest, I fail to praya lot more than I succeed at
praying, though.
So that's on a good day.
If it's a bad day, thenhopefully I'll be getting a
rosary in on the car ride orwe'll pray one together, but
then that's my personalspiritual life.
Do you do anything in themorning, mari?
Speaker 2 (03:11):
I think it looks pretty similar on our end.
We both really try andprioritize our own personal
relationships with the Lordfirst.
So it's really important for usto cut out daily prayer time in
our own lives and for us we'veexperienced that if we don't do
it first thing in the morning,it's just likely not going to
get done Because the day begins,your to-do list starts growing
and it gets hard to get aroundto it.
(03:33):
So we try to incorporate it intoour morning routine.
We wake up and we each kind ofhave our own space to pray.
Much like Trey, I usually haveguided prayer, either with
scripture or journaling anddevotional or sometimes just
meditation, just like being withthe Lord.
I love praying with music andso lately one of my friends
turned me on to this playlistcalled Soaking in the Presence
(03:56):
of Jesus or something like that.
I'll link it in the show notesof this episode when it goes up.
But it's basically one hour ofinstrumental music and you put
that on and your prayer is likeall of a sudden, like the best
prayer you've ever had, like itis so deep, it is so
contemplative and wonderful andit just really helps me focus.
So we try to do that in themorning.
Likewise, we really believe inthe power of the rosary, so we
(04:20):
really try and pray a rosaryevery day, want you all to know
we're not perfect Trey has madethat clear and you know it's
hard for us to do it everysingle day, but it's something
that we really strive to do.
And then what would be like?
We end our days together and wepray together before we go to
bed.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
Yeah, how we pray together at night super, super
casual.
Anybody in the audience can dothis with your spouse.
It's super easy.
We just are laying in bed andwe just pray from the heart,
just like 30 seconds to a minute.
Just thank God for theblessings of the day, ask for
whatever petitions are on ourhearts, pray for our friends and
family, and that's it, andthat's just like the day-to-day.
(04:59):
There are times where we'll askeach other to pray for each
other if we're feelingparticularly stressed or anxious
or we have something big goingon in our life that we want
prayers for.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
So those are more like off the cuff, like when
things are happening in ourlives that need extra prayers,
but that's kind of the dailyritual, I guess.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Yeah, I really especially love the practice we
have of praying together everynight before we go to bed,
because it just creates not justlike a consistency but also
just a natural comfortability tobe vulnerable with your spouse.
You'd be surprised, like weknow a lot of married couples
who've never prayed together andthey're like, well, wouldn't
that be awkward?
(05:38):
Like, wouldn't it be awkward?
Like saying out loud, like whatyou're struggling with, or
talking to God?
And, yeah, at first, sure, itcould be like a little bit nerve
wracking, but we know that thatis the foundation of our
relationship, us being rooted inthe Lord, and no one is going
to pray harder for you than yourspouse.
Maybe your mom she might.
She might pray just as hard,but you want to be able to be
(06:00):
open with your spouse, right,and let them in, because you are
one with this person.
And we had a mentor in collegewho really encouraged us to
begin praying together since thetime we were dating.
And how you pray together isgoing to change depending on
what part of the relationshipyou're at.
So maybe at the time when wewere dating, we would pray a
decade of the rosary togetherevery single day.
(06:23):
So we would either FaceTime anddo it.
If we weren't together, or ifwe were together in person, we
would do it together.
Or if we didn't have time tocall, we would text each other
and be like, just prayed ourdecade, and so we would do that.
And then, as the relationshipgot more serious, we opened up a
little bit more, you know.
And then it's like, hey, I'mreally anxious about this, can
you pray for me?
And in the moment, you know,trey would place his hands on me
(06:44):
in the car and just like beginto pray for whatever it was that
I was struggling with.
And this mentor in college hereally stressed it because he
said like prayer is like bearingyour souls to each other and it
is like more intimate than sex,really, like you're letting
people into the deepest parts ofyour heart, and so if you can't
do that with your spouse, right, there's a problem there.
(07:05):
There's a lack of intimacy thatyou're missing out.
On that you can really connectwith your spouse.
So that is one of my favoritethings that we do prayer before
bed.
So highly encourage you guys totake that up.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
Okay, great, we need to answer these quicker.
My bad, my bad.
We have a lot of questions toget through.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
I know we have good ones right, this one's fun, this
one's fun.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
What would you be the patron saint of?
Do you want to answer for me?
Speaker 2 (07:28):
For you yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
Put you on the spot.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Uh, golf Okay.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
Is there a patron saint?
Speaker 2 (07:35):
of golf.
No, like it's going to be you,I don't know.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
Well, I need to get a lot better then.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Okay, what about me?
Speaker 3 (07:42):
Uh, you'd be social media for sure.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Or chocolate.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
Or chocolate, chocolate.
Okay, there you go All rightnext.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Okay, I have a fun one.
Do you think girls should makethe first move or not?
Asking out on dates, et cetera.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
I think ideally the man makes the first move.
I think everybody wants that,yeah, like the girls want that,
the guys want that.
But it's not a perfect worldand sometimes guys are dumb and
they need some encouragement,and so I mean girls, in all
things in life men are not mindreaders, and so be very obvious
(08:19):
with your hints if you want themto ask you out.
So I mean, if he's not makingthe first move, you have
permission to give him very,very obvious hints.
But I think in the perfectworld, yeah, the guy should be
making the first move.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Yeah, I agree.
I agree that, like you want theguy to make the first move and
like we want to empower men tobe able to have that confidence
you know, and that vulnerabilityto be like hey, like can I take
you on a date, Like you'rebeautiful, or like I've loved
hanging out with you, Like can Itake you to coffee.
I will say our experience wasdifferent, Um, I sort of feel
(08:55):
like I made the first move.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
It's cause you can't wait.
You fell, you fell too fast, Iwas still, I was, I was behind.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Um, so I mean, if you want to hear the full story,
it's like one of the very firstepisodes of the podcast.
But basically we got connectedthrough a mutual friend.
We both wanted to start upBible studies on campus and kind
of create more of a Catholiccommunity on our campus and so
we got set up on like a coffeedate to talk about that and we
started hanging out more andplanning these Bible studies.
And all of a sudden this guy islike continually asking me out
(09:26):
to coffee and to brunch to planBible study and we don't talk
about Bible study.
And like the hour and a halfthat we're there supposedly
planning Bible study, but he'dnever used the word date and I
wasn't sure what was going on.
And after there was one brunchhe asked me out to and my
friends were like he pays, thenit's a date and then you should
(09:47):
talk about what's going on.
If he doesn't pay, then maybeit's not a date.
And so we went to brunch and wewere chatting.
We had like the bestconversation ever and I'm just
hanging out like having a goodtime.
The the waiter brings the checkand it sits there and I'm like
wow, he's not paying, like hemust be having such a good time
hanging out with me.
Like he just wants the date togo longer.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
And I'm waiting for her to like say something about
the check.
I like let it sit on the tableand clear sight for like 30
minutes waiting for her to likesay like okay, like should we go
, should we pay?
And then I can be like oh yeah,do you want to split the check?
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Or waiting for her to kind of he was waiting for me
to be like hey, I'll help youout with the check.
Like we should split.
I didn't want her to, I did notwant to ask her to pay, and so
I was waiting and he was agentleman so he didn't.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
I was waiting for her to offer, and so I gave her a
lot of time, and then she neveroffered, and I asked you to pay
for the Uber, though, to likeoffset it, but then he asked me
to pay for the Uber.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
So I was like stingy.
But then we got back to campusand we were going to go study in
the library because we had areligion class test coming up.
And I like, if something is onmy heart, you guys like I can't
keep it in, like I can't hide myemotions, and so we're walking
and in my head I'm like I justhave to ask.
So I just counted down, I saidthree, two, one, and then I just
(11:05):
asked him I'm like I need toask you something Was today a
date or not?
Speaker 3 (11:09):
I'm confused and that caught me off guard.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
And that caught him off guard.
He was like, uh, he's like Ididn't plan it for it to be, but
like I kind of want one in thefuture.
Turns out he was reallyfocusing on his relationship
with the Lord, which was such agood thing, right, and I had
been in that season right beforelike not dating, focusing on my
relationship with the Lord.
So I just told them listen, I'mnot interested in dating any
(11:33):
other guy on this campus.
So when you're ready to date,somebody call me, because I'll
be here.
And I think that reallysurprised him.
So in that case I would say, ifthe Lord's putting it on your
heart, if you have a convictionthat like this is a man God's
putting in your life, don't beafraid.
You know, like it's okay forgirls to make the first move too
(11:54):
.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
Yes, all right, moving on this one is related,
so we can kind of continuetelling about our story a bit.
Okay, the question is how doyou pursue friendship prior to a
relationship?
Speaker 2 (12:08):
Go ahead.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
So Mari and I, I mean it was a quick friendship.
We fell hard and fast for eachother, but we were friends for I
don't know like two months.
So in the grand scheme ofthings that's not very long but
it felt long when we were in it.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
We thought it was like such a long time.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
But yeah, I mean we just would hang out, Like we
would just have really reallygood conversations and I mean we
would try to, I guess, beprudent in like what we would
share.
But like I don't know, I don'tthink we did a very good job at
that.
We were just just lovinghanging out with each other.
We would go to we went to likea concert together with a group
(12:47):
of friends and I'd hang out withher and her friends and their
apartment and I think it was westarted.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
When we started hanging out, like there was kind
of a natural thing that startedto happen, but truly like we
were both in a place where wewere like we don't feel like the
Lord is calling us to dateright now.
We feel like he's calling us toreally like pursue our faith.
We were both going through areversion in our own lives, um,
but we were both interested inbeing with each other.
So we said, like we're going topray about it and we're going
to wait for the Lord to let usknow and give us the go.
(13:15):
Like now you guys, like nowit's my will for you to date.
And so we had to set someboundaries, especially because
we already, like were interestedwith each other, in each other,
and I mean in college, likeyou're just like you're trying
to find the person you're goingto marry, you know, and it's
hard to do that.
But we had to set someboundaries.
We were like hey, we're goingto hang out with friends, you
know we're not going to beintimate.
Like no kissing or anythinglike that.
(13:35):
Like not until we're dating.
Like are we actually going toact like we're dating and we're
actually just going to spendtime talking, getting to know
each other, and those are someof my favorite memories Like we
spent hours talking about ourfamilies, like talking about
Trey and like his love forbaseball and you know the fact
that he grew up with sixsiblings.
I could not believe what thatwas like, you know.
And so just getting to know,like our childhood, our families
(13:57):
, and I think that was, yeah,that's what really helped us
build our friendship.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
Okay, I think a lot of people are going to be going
to a dating event tonight, right?
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Yes, I hope.
Speaker 3 (14:07):
So we have some questions about that.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Yes, Okay.
So first question here which isrelated to that.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
How do you bring up faith on a first date?
You didn't proof this with mefirst.
Okay, I have some thoughts.
Okay, I have some thoughts.
I don't think you have to bringup faith on the first date.
I disagree.
All right go, I want to hearyour take.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
Okay, my thought is this If your faith is the most
important thing in your life, ifit is like the number one,
non-negotiable, like it was forus, it should come up naturally
in those first conversations.
If it's not the most importantthing in your life, like, you're
not going to be naturallytalking about it, but if it is,
it can be a very casual thingand this is what I always like
(14:53):
tell my friends when they'regoing on dates Like you just
talk about going to church orBible study or your faith, as if
you're talking about like goingto Qdoba or Chipotle.
You know, like, don't make it athing of like, oh, by the way,
like I'm Catholic, you know,like you just like, oh, yeah,
like, what did you do thisweekend?
Oh, yeah, like I went to mass.
You know we're like, oh, I goto a Bible study on Tuesdays.
(15:15):
Yeah, like, oh, I grew upCatholic and you know something
like very casual and sometimesyou might feel awkward, but I am
like the biggest fan of likefake it till you make it.
And the more you talk aboutyour faith, the less awkward
it's going to get.
The less awkward it's going tobe to talk about your faith and
the more confident you are, themore the person that you're
getting to know is going tounderstand.
(15:35):
Like, oh, this is like a bigdeal in her life.
Like, does that fit with mylifestyle or not, and you want
to find out pretty soon?
Like, if you're trying to finda Catholic woman or man to marry
and this person's not Catholic,then don't waste your time.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
I mean, I think you convinced me, but the question
was how do you bring it up?
How do you bring it up?
Speaker 2 (15:55):
How do you bring it?
Speaker 3 (15:56):
up.
So how do you?
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Well, yeah, just like in a casual way, I think.
Like, talk about your weekend,talk about what you do.
One thing this is also anotherquestion that was here Any
advice for the speed datingevent tonight what do you ask on
a first date?
We like to ask or we like to.
When we're getting to knowsomebody like, and when people
are dating like, we ask or welike to.
When we're getting to knowsomebody like and when people
(16:17):
are dating like, we ask what areyou passionate about?
Like, what do you love?
What are your dreams, what areyou passionate about?
And I feel like faith shouldcome up in that conversation.
So that's a really easy answer.
If you want to talk about itbut it's not coming up, you
could ask them like, hey, whatare you passionate about, what
do you love most?
And they'll talk about whateverit is, and then, if they're a
good dater, they'll probably askyou too, like, what about you?
And then you could bring it upthere.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
Yeah, I think that's a great segue into like talking
about faith is what are youpassionate about?
And then if he asks thatquestion to you, then you can
obviously say your Catholicfaith and then you can hear
about that for him.
And if you start it by likeopening that door of faith
conversations, then it'll bemore easy for the other party to
(16:58):
also be like okay, great, let'stalk about this.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
But the other question that for that card was
questions to ask at the speeddating event tonight.
So what are you passionateabout?
But I also love like, what areyour dreams?
And skip the questions Likewhat do you do for work, Like
you have five minutes with eachother, so skip over all that.
That's no fun.
Um, so like ask questions.
What are you passionate about?
Uh, what are your dreams?
(17:22):
Where do you see yourself infive, 10 years?
Speaker 2 (17:26):
Um how would?
How would others describe you?
I feel like I learned so muchabout you when we were dating
because we were.
You were doing a project for aleadership class, and the whole
thing was like asking peoplethat really knew you to describe
who you were and what yourcharacter was like.
And this was like three weeksinto me meeting him and so I was
helping him with that project,and the way that he was
described by his family andfriends really gave me an
(17:47):
insight into who he was.
So that could be a goodquestion too yeah, yeah, or like
a recent.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
I like to know what somebody's recently really into,
and so I feel like sometimes wego through phases of like
something you're really, really,really into, and so I like to
ask that question Like what inthe past like month have you
been really into?
Like what are you binging rightnow?
So those are good questions fortonight.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
Okay, another question here what if they check
every box except forCatholicism?
Speaker 3 (18:17):
This is a tough one Flirt to convert.
That is good advice for tonightas well.
It is good advice, but it's notthe answer always.
You definitely want faith to be, don't?
It's not fully true is what I'msaying.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Yes, yes, and I think I think it's really going to
come down to personaldiscernment.
What my heart wants to sayright now right, because it's
it's what I found and what Ihave seen in my friends who have
really prioritized finding aCatholic man is don't drop that
as a standard.
Like that should be the numberone non-negotiable box.
(18:51):
And if you're negotiating thenit's not a non-negotiable, okay.
Like it needs to be anon-negotiable, because it's
really hard when you're datingto think about what the future
is going to look like, what yourmarriage is going to look like.
And then you get into marriageand it's beautiful and it's
amazing, but like you go throughreally hard things and I can't
imagine, I cannot imagine beingmarried to someone who was not
(19:13):
Catholic or did not have astrong faith life, or who
couldn't lead me and our futurechildren to heaven.
Personally, I don't desireanything else but a Catholic
marriage.
So for me I would say, if theycheck every box except for
Catholicism, really communicatethat and be like it's really
important for me to marrysomebody who is a practicing
(19:33):
Catholic.
Are you open to it at all?
Because the reality and what Iwant to say with this is that
the Lord will have.
Some of you marry someone who'snot Catholic and that might
just be a special mission thathe has for you and it may be
that that person's going toconvert.
That's always an option, sothat's why there is some
discernment with it.
But I would say like the personneeds to at least be open to it
(19:55):
and be supportive of you, goingto mass with you, maybe,
praying with you and being opento learning more.
But if they're like completelyclosed off, I would say it's not
the right person for you.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
Yeah, yeah, you said it beautifully.
I think the only thing I wouldadd is two things.
Only thing I would add is twothings.
One God has his own plan foreach of your lives, and so it's
between you and the Lord and theperson you're dating, and it's
different for everybody, so wecan't give a blanket answer.
But in the Catholic church, thesacrament of marriage is a
(20:30):
sacrament, and if you areCatholic, you need to be getting
married.
In the Catholic church.
It is a beautiful, beautifulsacrament and there's
sacramental graces that comefrom that, and you also are
obliged to raise your childrenin the Catholic faith, and so
those are the conversations youneed to have with the person
you're dating.
Uh, to to go down that road.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Yeah, yeah, okay, I have a fun question.
Okay, what is one thing thatannoys you guys about each other
, and how do you get past it?
Speaker 3 (20:58):
Do you?
Speaker 2 (20:59):
want to go first.
Speaker 3 (21:01):
I feel like this is a trap.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
I'll go first, okay, go.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
Okay, I'll go first.
I love you a lot and there'snot a lot of things that annoy
me about you.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
Good start.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
But one thing is you kind of mentioned it you process
a little slower start.
But one thing is you kind ofmentioned it you process a
little slower.
And so I feel like my brain asa woman is like 5,000 steps
ahead, and half the time whenwe're talking I'm just like I'm
already there, you know, likecatch up, catch up.
And so, truly for me, I justneed to practice patience.
I just need to be more humbleand practice patience, and I
(21:34):
told them this the other day.
I'm like we're in our 20s, man,it's only going to get worse.
Like you're only going to getslower, man.
Like I need to be patient now,you know, and so, truly,
marriage is sanctification andit's not that bad.
And if that's the top thingthat annoys me about you, then
I'm really lucky.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
All right, I'll start how you started.
There's a lot of things I loveabout you and there's very
little I don't like about you.
But what annoys me the most iswhen you can't decide what to
freaking eat or drink.
Every morning, I would love tomake her her drink and like
bring her her drink or herbreakfast in bed, or like cook
(22:14):
it for her, or like serve her inthat way, but every time I'll
get it wrong, so so it's veryhard.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
I'm very finicky about what I want to eat.
Speaker 3 (22:23):
It's like one morning it's coffee, one morning it's
decaf coffee.
One morning it's coffee, butit's iced.
And then it's vanilla, and thenit's honey, and then it's tea,
and then it's oh, I wantsomething, I want a smoothie.
So one day it's I love avocadotoast.
The next day it's oh, I wantsomething.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
I want a smoothie.
So one day it's I love avocadotoast.
The next day it's like avocadotoast makes me gag.
It's disgusting.
I would never have that.
Speaker 3 (22:39):
Yeah, or if we're just trying to like decide where
to eat same thing, yes.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
Okay, I don't know if you've seen this reel I think
it's a brilliant hack where theguy gets into the car and asks
the girl like oh, we're going togo eat, like guess where I'm
taking you?
And then she's like she likesays what she's most excited
about, and he's just doing thatto get her to decide.
And he's like, yes, chick-fil-ayou got it.
That's great, okay so you maybeneed to start doing that.
(23:04):
I'll tuck that in the pocket,okay, do you have a question?
Speaker 3 (23:10):
All right God at the center of our relationship while
in college and trying to growin faith as a couple.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
Really good yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:18):
I'll hand it to you.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
Yeah, I think, like I said in the beginning, what's
going to help you have aGod-centered relationship is
putting the Lord first in yourlife.
And I think when we were goingthrough that one thing you
mentioned, trey, was SarahSwofford.
She always says like run toheaven, like make that your goal
.
Like run to heaven, like makethat your goal, like run to
heaven and then turn to the sideand see who's running with you.
And so, first and foremost,focus on growing your own
(23:41):
relationship with the Lord,focus on daily prayer and
starting that habit from college.
I know that it feels like lifeis so busy in college and I
remember feeling that way too.
But this mentor we had incollege that taught us to pray
and guided us through ourrelationship and everything, he
would always tell us, like youare the least busy you will ever
be right now.
And I got so mad at him becauseI was like you don't understand
(24:03):
.
Like I'm in so many things,like I have a lot to do.
You know I'm busy, but he'slike no, you have no idea.
Like you get into the realworld, you become a wife, a
husband, a mother and a father.
Life just gets busy.
So in college, like, cultivatethese faith centered practices
now so that you can take thatinto your adult life and your
vocation, and that's what'sgoing to help you.
(24:24):
Um, yeah, really have faith atthe center of your relationship,
because it'll already be apractice for each of you in your
own lives.
Speaker 3 (24:31):
I think another way to keep God at the center of
your relationship is spiritualconversations.
This is something that CurtisMartin has talked about a lot is
making the faith just like acasual part of your
conversations, as opposed toisolating your faith to just
okay, as a couple, we go to mass, or as a couple like we do the
(24:54):
rosary together once a week orwhatever it is that you're doing
, instead of it having to belike these isolated instances
where you're practicing yourfaith together.
Just talk about your faith.
Talk about, hey, like what'sGod doing in your life right now
?
How was your prayer thismorning?
Like, what is something you'restruggling with?
How can I pray with you?
Like, if you guys are in Biblestudies you can talk about.
Like what did you guys talkabout Bible study?
(25:14):
Or if you're doing some extraspiritual reading, like, hey,
what's the meaning of learningthe book you're?
Speaker 2 (25:19):
reading right now what stood out in the homily, or
yeah?
Speaker 3 (25:21):
what's that?
I just like like haveconversations about it that are
outside of the actual thing thatyou do for your faith.
Um, then, it just is moreintegrated.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
And then to like choose something to grow in
together.
So when we were dating, um,part of it was because we had
this, uh, gospels class that wewere in together.
But we read scripture a lot andso sometimes we would go
through a portion of time wherewe were like, oh, we're going to
read the book of John, and so,like every Tuesday, we would
like get together and like reada chapter and then like pray
with it, talk about it, or weread um a spiritual book on well
, not spiritual book, on well,not spiritual book.
It was like a relationshipsbook, edward strees men women in
(25:56):
the mystery of love.
That was like the book that weread, and so it was good to read
.
It was short and sweet.
Each of us got a book.
We would each read one chaptera week.
Speaker 3 (26:03):
Then we'd come together and kind of like talk
about what we felt like stoodout to us, um, and that, like
trace had kept spiritualconversations at like the
forefront of our relationship orjust this this past Advent, you
were really great atencouraging us to do the Mike
Schmitz Father Mike Schmitzface-to-face for Advent, and so
we would just like watch thosetogether and talk about it.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Yeah, okay, how did you discern marriage?
Speaker 3 (26:31):
I feel like this falls on me because I had to
discern when to propose first,or if I was going to propose.
The if part was pretty easy.
I knew pretty early on to therelationship that I was going to
marry Mari, and so then thequestion was just when and
timing, and I mean it'sdifferent for everybody.
I took it to prayer to aspiritual director and to a
(26:55):
really close mentor of mine andtalked it out with them.
The spiritual director said doit yesterday.
My parents said wait six years.
No, they didn't.
It's just prayer, it'sdiscernment.
Discernment is a skill that youcan learn how to do, like the
(27:17):
more you do it, the more youdiscern things in your life.
You start to recognize thepatterns and the ways that God
speaks to you and like just thesilent movements that the spirit
works in your heart.
And so at that point I mean Iwas still pretty fresh into my
conversion, so I was like thiswas obviously a huge decision
and it took a long time todiscern it.
(27:38):
But ever since then I feel likeI've been able to like
recognize the patterns from thatdiscernment process into how to
discern other things in my life.
But to answer the questionabout, like how to decide and
discern marriage.
I think it was just like I feltGod, I was like I know she's the
one that I'm going to marry.
(27:58):
There's no reason to wait atthis point.
So I was a junior in college,which is very young.
I look back at that and that'scrazy, but I proposed junior
year of college.
We got married right when wegraduated and I think it's just.
It's about timing, like whenyou feel in your heart like
you're ready, uh, when God'scalling you to get married, when
(28:21):
you guys are ready to have kidsand like really take that next
step.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Um, those are all elements to play a part, I think
, a key thing you talk youmentioned is that you talk to
several mentors who are reallyrooted in the faith, like
Christ-centered people.
So, depending on who yourfriends are or your family, like
, if they're not practicing orif they're not, like, rooted in
the faith and that's the type ofmarriage you want to have, they
might not be the people thatyou want to get this advice from
(28:44):
Like.
So I think, finding a spiritualdirector, like maybe your
chaplain you know if there's apriest at your Newman Center or
something that you can talk toor even a missionary that can
kind of help guide you throughthat, somebody who is really
rooted in Christ and thatunderstands the power and the
weight of vocation, because theworld right now will tell you
like don't get married, you know, and don't get married young,
like don't be chained down bysomebody.
(29:05):
But I'll tell you like I thinkfor us we were young in college
but we just felt like if God'scalling us to our vocation, why
would we put that off?
Like our vocation is what'sgoing to take us to heaven, and
if we know, if we're gettingconfirmation now, like yes,
you're supposed to be marriedand this is the person you're
supposed to marry, why would weput that off.
So I think for me, a momentwhen I was going through a
(29:26):
discernment.
I was an intern with Focus a fewyears in a row for different
summers and one of the summers Iwas out in the University of
Mary doing internship stuffthere while the focus
missionaries were training andthere was so many priests and
religious around and duringdifferent times of prayer I felt
the Lord, like speak to me tosurrender my vocation.
(29:47):
And I was freaking out becauseI was super in love with him and
I'm like if the Lord's askingme to surrender my vocation, it
means he's asking me to be a nunand like I am so not about to
do that.
And we had this prayerexperience at Adoration and this
missionary came up to me andshe was like I'm sorry, do you
have arthritis?
And I was like no, she's like Ijust keep getting a vision of
(30:11):
like your hand, like your lefthand, is it hurting?
And I was like no, that must besomeone else.
Like that's not me.
And she's like I'm so sorry.
Okay, I'm going to keep prayingabout it.
She came back again like halfan hour later.
She's like it's you.
Like your left ring finger isstrained.
Are you praying about vocationat all.
And I was like, yeah, that's me.
(30:36):
And she was like I think theLord just wants me to tell you
to surrender your vocation.
Like he's going to take care ofyou.
That night I bawled my eyes outand I went to a priest that I
had been doing spiritualdirection with over the summer
and I told them this and he waslike God may very well be
calling you to get married.
And I was like no, like I meanI would love that, but like I
didn't know that I could havethat, like I'm like 21.
Like there's no way God'scalling me to do that.
(30:58):
And, you know, I was like myparents are going to kill me,
like they're not going to wantme to get married right now.
And through several sessions ofspiritual direction after that
summer, like we kept in touch.
We would.
I think it was like Skype atthe time I'm not that old, I
don't know what it was, just sayFaceTime.
Speaker 3 (31:14):
But it wasn't.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
Zoom.
We, like, did some video callswith this priest throughout the
summer and into the fall and wecontinued to pray with what I
felt like the Lord was puttingon my heart and this feeling of
engagement.
And I told myself I'm not goingto bring it up to Trey because
I don't want to influence hisdecision.
And when we ended up talkingabout, it turns out that same
summer we were both having thoseprayerful experiences in our
(31:36):
own prayer and both talking tospiritual directors, feeling
like the Lord was calling us toget engaged.
So, all in all, yourdiscernment is really going to
come down to prayer, and findinga good mentor that's gonna help
you discern God's voice.
Speaker 3 (31:49):
And beyond marriage.
If you're discerning anything,if you feel like you know what
God's calling you to do, begenerous with your yes.
Just do it now, like don't wait, don't delay, like if you know
God's calling you to dosomething, just do it now, like
it's going to be for your owngood.
It's going to give you the mostjoy, it's going to get you to
heaven, so don't keep puttingoff that decision.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
He'll provide If he's calling you to it, he'll
provide.
I think for us one of thethings we were most nervous
about, like we were brokecollege students, we're like we
don't have money.
How are you supposed to do this?
And Trey's spiritual directorwould always say, like, who said
you need money to like enterinto a sacrament?
You know?
Like God will provide.
And he did.
Speaker 3 (32:40):
And he did, became missionaries and we were fine.
We had nothing to freak outabout.
But the Lord will alwaysprovide whatever he's calling
you to do.
All right, this is.
This is fun.
What is a part of marriage that?
Speaker 2 (32:46):
is bringing you lots of joy.
Right now we have 10 minutes.
Okay, we're just like seriouslybest friends, like we do
everything together and I thinkthat we have a unique
relationship to where we likeactually get a lot of time to
spend together because obviouslywe live together but we also
work together.
We have a business that we ownand we work full time from home.
We have the same friends andthe same family, so we spend a
(33:08):
lot of time together.
But it is just so much fun tojust have this best friend, this
companion, who you get to makeso many memories with and chase
after your dreams.
Yeah, it's just friendship.
Speaker 3 (33:21):
Yeah, you took my answer, but yes, I'll just echo
that.
But then also, just, you'rehilarious, my, what You're
hilarious, oh what You're sofunny and goofy and so I think I
don't know, that's justsomething that came to mind
recently.
We were so funny and goofy andso I think, I don't know, that's
just something that came tomind recently.
I just feel like you're shemight put on this front, in
front of the screen, that she'sall stoic but she's so fun.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
Trey says I made him weird.
Speaker 3 (33:42):
Yes, I was normal.
And then I met Mari.
I was like I don't think I'mthat weird, and then her
weirdness rubbed off on me.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
I'm not weird guys.
Um, how do you practicechastity while dating?
This is a good one thatdefinitely needs to be talked
about.
Um, do you have anything to say, right?
Speaker 3 (34:01):
off the bat.
I mean you've spoken on this alot and you have like your
points.
I'm going to let you start, andthen I'll fill in the blanks.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
Yeah, it's really going to be about setting really
good boundaries for yourrelationship and setting those
early on so you both have anunderstanding of like what
you're pursuing together as agoal.
So you both need to be on thesame page of what you're trying
to do, right.
Speaker 3 (34:23):
Yeah, I think what you said there is early, like it
needs to be early on.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
Yes and both be on the same page.
If one person is like not onboard, that's going to be really
hard.
It's going to be really hardbecause you're going to struggle
and there's going to be timesof temptation, and if you're not
both fighting for the samething, it's going to be really
hard.
So I remember like when we weredating, we like set some
boundaries and it honestly feltstupid, cause I'm like I'm an
adult, like I don't need thesethings, like I totally trust
(34:47):
myself but don't trust yourself.
So some of the things we setwere like curfew.
We set a curfew for ourselves,which again I was like I'm in
college, I don't need a curfew,but it actually really helped.
So we would say like we don'thang out, like past, like I
think it was 10 pm 10 or 11 yeah, um, and then if it was like we
had to be in a group of people,like we had to be like in the
(35:08):
living room with our friends orlike out doing something, but
like we had no business hangingout with each other alone after
like 10 pm or 10.30.
We couldn't be in each other'srooms by ourselves and the door
always had to be open or peoplehad to be home.
Another thing I've heard a lotof people say is helpful is like
four feet on the ground, solike.
Speaker 3 (35:30):
Just don't be horizontal, don't be horizontal.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
Four feet on the ground and then just get back up
and try again, like go toconfession often.
Speaker 3 (35:40):
Yeah, yeah.
Confession is your best friend.
I think the only thing I haveto add to that is be explicit
with your boundaries, don't bevague and do it early on, and
then have mercy on yourself andget back up and God still loves
(36:01):
you.
And it's not the end of theworld, it's just go to
confession.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
Yeah, one thing too that I feel like was really
helpful for me, that I alwaysheld on to to wait for marriage,
was I think I heard it in aJason Everett talk when I was in
like high school or something,and he said those vows that you
make on the altar as a Catholic,you say for all the days of my
life, right, you say like I will.
You know, you make all thesevows for all the days of my life
.
And the way I looked at it wasevery single day of your life is
(36:27):
a day of your life.
You're not saying like I'mvowing myself to you from this
day forward, but you're trulysaying like for all the days of
my life, like I am completelyyours.
And so I would use that asencouragement for me of like I
want to, you know, be up on thealtar with my husband and have
that be truly what it means andjust be like every single day of
my life I waited for you and Ilike gave myself completely to
(36:50):
you.
So if that encourages you, takethat with you.
Speaker 3 (36:53):
The other thing is the book we recommended earlier,
men and Women in the Mystery ofLove.
It's basically the dumbed down,easy to read version of JP
Tooth's Theology of the Body andLove and Responsibility, and so
that gives you a lot of likereasons why it's really good to
be chaste and to love chastely,and so the other book that
really helped me was how to Findyour Soulmate Without Losing
(37:16):
your Soul, by Jason Everett.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
Like game changer of a book.
You guys, I'm out of questions,you're out of questions.
You have one more.
Speaker 3 (37:25):
How do you know if God sent a partner into your
life versus you forcing someoneinto your life?
Speaker 2 (37:33):
Yeah, First thing that comes to mind is peace.
When the Lord is leading you tosomething, there's going to be
peace.
It doesn't mean it's alwaysgoing to be easy, but there is
just an innate like stillness inyour heart and confidence in
what's going on and that it isof the Lord.
Speaker 3 (37:49):
And if you feel like there's a lot of tension, Like
if it truly feels forced rightUm, that there's no peace there,
yeah, and what you said earlier, uh, the Sarah Swofford quote
about don't worry so much aboutlike, don't be so fixated on the
other, just like be fixated, befixated on God, and just like
(38:11):
run to God.
And then what Sarah says, likejust strive after God and see
and run after God, and just likerun to God.
And then what Sarah says, likejust strive after God and see
and run after God and turn toyour left or right and see who's
running with you.
I think that's a great line.
And yeah, I mean, like I said,discernment is a skill.
If you keep doing it you'll geta lot better at it.
And then you can like discernthings quickly and so recognize
(38:31):
that's why I love journaling isI can like recognize.
When I journal and processexternally like that through
journaling and prayer, then I'mmore easily and quicker at
recognizing patterns in my life,like when I'm feeling this or
when I'm feeling this.
Then I can like feel the HolySpirit kind of nudge me in one
way or the other, but I mean,yeah, there's no answer, that's
(38:53):
like black and white.
For that you just got to pray.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
Yeah, I think it's kind of a cop out answer, but
it's the best answer.
I think too, like as Catholicwomen especially like, we get
caught up a lot in like thequestion of is he the one?
And I remember going to likeSteubenville conferences, you
know, and I was boy crazy sinceI was like 15.
And I was just like, oh my gosh, is this the boy I'm going to
marry?
Is this the boy I'm going tomarry?
Is this the boy I'm going tomarry?
I know Jackie said that in hertalk the other day and I heard
(39:17):
all you girls just like laughinglike ha ha ha, Like no, we all
know you're all thinking it andI think sometimes like we need
to let go of that a little bit,you know, and pray for him to be
prepared spiritually,emotionally, physically.
(39:38):
However, it is that you know youwant to pray for him and bless
him and then ask less of thequestion of like is he it?
Is he it?
Is he it?
And I know that it's differentfor every person, but a lot of
people you talk to it's likeyou'll know, like truly and
especially, if you are alignedwith the Lord and in his grace
and praying and discerning daily, like you'll know who it is,
(39:59):
you'll feel that in your heart,you'll feel that confidence of
God and that peace of the HolySpirit in your heart that, like
this, is the open door God'sleading you to.
So it's less about like tryingto figure out which guy in your
life is the one and instead,like Trey said, like really
pursue the Lord, look to theside and if there happens to be
somebody that's there, that'slike a really good man, like
(40:19):
that might be a really goodoption.
Speaker 3 (40:21):
Yeah, then this last question is really really
similar.
It's basically just asking howto surrender your love life to
the Lord, and I mean that goeswith anything in life, not just
your relationship or your lovelife.
I mean that goes with anythingin life, not just your
relationship or your love life.
But how do you surrenderanything that you're desiring to
the Lord?
And you said this with yourvocation.
(40:41):
Discernment is, just because yousurrender something to the Lord
doesn't mean he's taking itfrom you.
He could very well just give itright back to you, but he wants
to give it to you and if you'renot surrendering it to you, if
you're not surrendering it toGod, then he can't actually give
it to you, because you're justtrying to take it or just like
create it for yourself and so,uh, like trust that God is good
(41:03):
and ultimately, like he desiresthe best for you and he's a good
father, and so by surrenderingit to him you could get that
right back and it would bebetter and blessed and a gift
from God.
Uh, so don't be afraid tosurrender things.
I mean it's so freaking hard,but, um, just just daily prayer.
Speaker 2 (41:21):
And yeah, another thing, um too, is like surrender
multiple or not surrender, uh,discern multiple vocations.
So like don't completely closethe Lord, close the door on
religious life if the Lordhasn't closed it for you.
Trey went to like a seminariancome and see type of thing,
(41:41):
right, like something like that,where you were just like and we
were actually still dating andI was terrified but he was like
I mean, I haven't thought aboutit super seriously, but I
haven't completely closed thedoor and I just feel like the
Lord's calling me to like go tothis retreat and like surrender
my vocation and and I thinkthat's a really powerful thing
yeah, I went and I was like I'mgetting married, so and the Lord
?
made it clear like the Lordclosed that door.
(42:02):
And I think, similarly to me,in that moment of prayer when I
surrendered my vocation and Iwas like, oh my gosh, god's
going to ask me to be a nunwhich, if he's asking you to be
a sister, like truly, that willbe what brings you the most joy
in your life.
Your vocation will bring youthe most joy in your life and if
you're meant to be a sister,you're going to be more joyful
in that vocation than inmarriage.
(42:23):
But I was scared in that moment, but I surrendered it and then
I feel like the Lord quicklygave it right back to me and I
think a lot of the times, atleast when I was in college, I
felt like because of mytestimony and the way that I was
living in the world before Imet the Lord, right, I felt like
a lot of the ways that I wasliving in, a lot of the things I
desired the Lord didn't wantand it was like he immediately
(42:45):
opposed for me, right, and so itwas a natural thing for me to
feel like, oh, like I reallywant this vocation.
God probably doesn't want thatfor me, right?
Because he didn't wantdrunkenness for me, he didn't
want impurity for me and so thatinitial desire of like I really
want this, he might take itaway.
That's a natural thing we mightfeel, but that's not true.
Like the Lord places desires onyour heart, and especially with
(43:10):
vocation, like those are reallygood desires and in the end
he's going to lead you If youare open, if you are discerning,
if you're in grace with theLord.
Like he's not going to trickyou, he's not going to lead you
astray, he's going to lead youexactly to what's going to get
you to heaven.
Speaker 3 (43:25):
Great, it's out of time.
Where can they find more of you?
Speaker 2 (43:29):
Oh yes, so Ever Be podcast is on Spotify, apple, I
think.
I don't know if people listento podcasts on other things, but
it's probably on that as well.
We're also on Instagram at everbe podcast, and then my
personal blog you can find it atat maricwagner.
And then our Catholic lifestylebrand is West Coast Catholic.
You can find it atwestcoastcatholicco, and our
(43:53):
Instagram is atwestcoastcatholic Hope you wrote
that down.
Speaker 3 (43:57):
That's a mouthful, but thanks so much guys.
Speaker 2 (43:59):
Thank you guys.
Speaker 1 (44:00):
Thanks for listening to this episode recorded live at
SEEK.
Miss the conference or want torelive your favorite moments?
Seek Replay has you covered.
Seek Replay has you coveredAccess, powerful keynotes,
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Head to seekfocusorg backslashreplay to download now and don't
(44:27):
forget to join us for Seek 26.
Check out seekfocusorg for moreinformation and to register.
Welcome to the Seek 25 podcast, featuring some of
our favorite podcasters recordedlive at the Max Studios podcast
stage during Seek 25 in SaltLake City.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Hello everybody, how are we doing?
Woo, amazing Welcome to theEverbee podcast.
Hello everybody, how are wedoing?
Amazing Welcome to the Everbeepodcast.
We are so pumped to be herewith you guys live.
We record or mostly I recordevery week and it's just me up
in my loft talking to my cameraby myself.
So it is so amazing to seeevery single one of your faces
(00:40):
that I get to speak to everysingle week.
This week we have my mostfavorite guest that I get to
bring on the podcast, my husbandTrey, hello everybody.
So whenever I meet a fellowlistener, I ask them like what
has resonated with you most fromthe podcast?
Because it's encouraging for me, I want to know what's hitting
home and like nine times out of10, people say I love your love
(01:04):
story.
I love when Trey comes on thepodcast.
Like people want to hear whatgood Catholic men have to say.
Right, and so I thought wewould bring him on today.
It took a little bit ofconvincing, but he is here, so
let's give Trey a warm welcome.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Hey everybody, so happy to be here.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Awesome.
So today we're going to bedoing a live Q&A.
We're pumped, we're a littlebit nervous because these are
brand new questions and we'relike, okay, come Holy Spirit.
Hopefully we can give the bestadvice that we can, and
hopefully it's the Lord's words,not ours.
But we're going to be chattingabout God-centered relationships
, how to have a holyrelationship, how to know, like,
is he really the one?
Is this what the Lord's callingme to do?
(01:43):
So we're just going to getright into it and start it off
with the very first question.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
Hold on before you start.
Okay, go ahead.
I am very thankful that we gotto screen some of these or just
read them first, because youasked some good questions and it
gave me some time to think, sothat was a good move on our end.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Yes, absolutely Okay.
Question number one what doyour daily spiritual lives look
like from morning to end?
This is a great question.
I'm excited to answer thisbecause this is the foundation
of what a God-centeredrelationship is really going to
thrive from.
So, Trey, do you want to talkabout your spiritual life?
Speaker 3 (02:17):
Well, it depends.
Is it a good day or a bad day?
So I feel like on a good day Iwake up and I try to do a
morning offering and I godownstairs and make a cup of
coffee and watch the sun riseout our window and pray what?
Speaker 2 (02:34):
do you pray with Very ?
Speaker 3 (02:35):
simple Either the Liturgy of the Hours, morning
prayer I love that a lot LectioDivina with scripture, or I'll
just journal.
I have to journal to process.
I'm a very slow processor andso journaling helps me a lot but
then, yeah, it's justindividual prayer, and then the
day starts.
(02:55):
I'll be honest, I fail to praya lot more than I succeed at
praying, though.
So that's on a good day.
If it's a bad day, thenhopefully I'll be getting a
rosary in on the car ride orwe'll pray one together, but
then that's my personalspiritual life.
Do you do anything in themorning, mari?
Speaker 2 (03:11):
I think it looks pretty similar on our end.
We both really try andprioritize our own personal
relationships with the Lordfirst.
So it's really important for usto cut out daily prayer time in
our own lives and for us we'veexperienced that if we don't do
it first thing in the morning,it's just likely not going to
get done Because the day begins,your to-do list starts growing
and it gets hard to get aroundto it.
(03:33):
So we try to incorporate it intoour morning routine.
We wake up and we each kind ofhave our own space to pray.
Much like Trey, I usually haveguided prayer, either with
scripture or journaling anddevotional or sometimes just
meditation, just like being withthe Lord.
I love praying with music andso lately one of my friends
turned me on to this playlistcalled Soaking in the Presence
(03:56):
of Jesus or something like that.
I'll link it in the show notesof this episode when it goes up.
But it's basically one hour ofinstrumental music and you put
that on and your prayer is likeall of a sudden, like the best
prayer you've ever had, like itis so deep, it is so
contemplative and wonderful andit just really helps me focus.
So we try to do that in themorning.
Likewise, we really believe inthe power of the rosary, so we
(04:20):
really try and pray a rosaryevery day, want you all to know
we're not perfect Trey has madethat clear and you know it's
hard for us to do it everysingle day, but it's something
that we really strive to do.
And then what would be like?
We end our days together and wepray together before we go to
bed.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
Yeah, how we pray together at night super, super
casual.
Anybody in the audience can dothis with your spouse.
It's super easy.
We just are laying in bed andwe just pray from the heart,
just like 30 seconds to a minute.
Just thank God for theblessings of the day, ask for
whatever petitions are on ourhearts, pray for our friends and
family, and that's it, andthat's just like the day-to-day.
(04:59):
There are times where we'll askeach other to pray for each
other if we're feelingparticularly stressed or anxious
or we have something big goingon in our life that we want
prayers for.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
So those are more like off the cuff, like when
things are happening in ourlives that need extra prayers,
but that's kind of the dailyritual, I guess.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Yeah, I really especially love the practice we
have of praying together everynight before we go to bed,
because it just creates not justlike a consistency but also
just a natural comfortability tobe vulnerable with your spouse.
You'd be surprised, like weknow a lot of married couples
who've never prayed together andthey're like, well, wouldn't
that be awkward?
(05:38):
Like, wouldn't it be awkward?
Like saying out loud, like whatyou're struggling with, or
talking to God?
And, yeah, at first, sure, itcould be like a little bit nerve
wracking, but we know that thatis the foundation of our
relationship, us being rooted inthe Lord, and no one is going
to pray harder for you than yourspouse.
Maybe your mom she might.
She might pray just as hard,but you want to be able to be
(06:00):
open with your spouse, right,and let them in, because you are
one with this person.
And we had a mentor in collegewho really encouraged us to
begin praying together since thetime we were dating.
And how you pray together isgoing to change depending on
what part of the relationshipyou're at.
So maybe at the time when wewere dating, we would pray a
decade of the rosary togetherevery single day.
(06:23):
So we would either FaceTime anddo it.
If we weren't together, or ifwe were together in person, we
would do it together.
Or if we didn't have time tocall, we would text each other
and be like, just prayed ourdecade, and so we would do that.
And then, as the relationshipgot more serious, we opened up a
little bit more, you know.
And then it's like, hey, I'mreally anxious about this, can
you pray for me?
And in the moment, you know,trey would place his hands on me
(06:44):
in the car and just like beginto pray for whatever it was that
I was struggling with.
And this mentor in college hereally stressed it because he
said like prayer is like bearingyour souls to each other and it
is like more intimate than sex,really, like you're letting
people into the deepest parts ofyour heart, and so if you can't
do that with your spouse, right, there's a problem there.
(07:05):
There's a lack of intimacy thatyou're missing out.
On that you can really connectwith your spouse.
So that is one of my favoritethings that we do prayer before
bed.
So highly encourage you guys totake that up.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
Okay, great, we need to answer these quicker.
My bad, my bad.
We have a lot of questions toget through.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
I know we have good ones right, this one's fun, this
one's fun.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
What would you be the patron saint of?
Do you want to answer for me?
Speaker 2 (07:28):
For you yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
Put you on the spot.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Uh, golf Okay.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
Is there a patron saint?
Speaker 2 (07:35):
of golf.
No, like it's going to be you,I don't know.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
Well, I need to get a lot better then.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Okay, what about me?
Speaker 3 (07:42):
Uh, you'd be social media for sure.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Or chocolate.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
Or chocolate, chocolate.
Okay, there you go All rightnext.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Okay, I have a fun one.
Do you think girls should makethe first move or not?
Asking out on dates, et cetera.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
I think ideally the man makes the first move.
I think everybody wants that,yeah, like the girls want that,
the guys want that.
But it's not a perfect worldand sometimes guys are dumb and
they need some encouragement,and so I mean girls, in all
things in life men are not mindreaders, and so be very obvious
(08:19):
with your hints if you want themto ask you out.
So I mean, if he's not makingthe first move, you have
permission to give him very,very obvious hints.
But I think in the perfectworld, yeah, the guy should be
making the first move.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Yeah, I agree.
I agree that, like you want theguy to make the first move and
like we want to empower men tobe able to have that confidence
you know, and that vulnerabilityto be like hey, like can I take
you on a date, Like you'rebeautiful, or like I've loved
hanging out with you, Like can Itake you to coffee.
I will say our experience wasdifferent, Um, I sort of feel
(08:55):
like I made the first move.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
It's cause you can't wait.
You fell, you fell too fast, Iwas still, I was, I was behind.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Um, so I mean, if you want to hear the full story,
it's like one of the very firstepisodes of the podcast.
But basically we got connectedthrough a mutual friend.
We both wanted to start upBible studies on campus and kind
of create more of a Catholiccommunity on our campus and so
we got set up on like a coffeedate to talk about that and we
started hanging out more andplanning these Bible studies.
And all of a sudden this guy islike continually asking me out
(09:26):
to coffee and to brunch to planBible study and we don't talk
about Bible study.
And like the hour and a halfthat we're there supposedly
planning Bible study, but he'dnever used the word date and I
wasn't sure what was going on.
And after there was one brunchhe asked me out to and my
friends were like he pays, thenit's a date and then you should
(09:47):
talk about what's going on.
If he doesn't pay, then maybeit's not a date.
And so we went to brunch and wewere chatting.
We had like the bestconversation ever and I'm just
hanging out like having a goodtime.
The the waiter brings the checkand it sits there and I'm like
wow, he's not paying, like hemust be having such a good time
hanging out with me.
Like he just wants the date togo longer.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
And I'm waiting for her to like say something about
the check.
I like let it sit on the tableand clear sight for like 30
minutes waiting for her to likesay like okay, like should we go
, should we pay?
And then I can be like oh yeah,do you want to split the check?
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Or waiting for her to kind of he was waiting for me
to be like hey, I'll help youout with the check.
Like we should split.
I didn't want her to, I did notwant to ask her to pay, and so
I was waiting and he was agentleman so he didn't.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
I was waiting for her to offer, and so I gave her a
lot of time, and then she neveroffered, and I asked you to pay
for the Uber, though, to likeoffset it, but then he asked me
to pay for the Uber.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
So I was like stingy.
But then we got back to campusand we were going to go study in
the library because we had areligion class test coming up.
And I like, if something is onmy heart, you guys like I can't
keep it in, like I can't hide myemotions, and so we're walking
and in my head I'm like I justhave to ask.
So I just counted down, I saidthree, two, one, and then I just
(11:05):
asked him I'm like I need toask you something Was today a
date or not?
Speaker 3 (11:09):
I'm confused and that caught me off guard.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
And that caught him off guard.
He was like, uh, he's like Ididn't plan it for it to be, but
like I kind of want one in thefuture.
Turns out he was reallyfocusing on his relationship
with the Lord, which was such agood thing, right, and I had
been in that season right beforelike not dating, focusing on my
relationship with the Lord.
So I just told them listen, I'mnot interested in dating any
(11:33):
other guy on this campus.
So when you're ready to date,somebody call me, because I'll
be here.
And I think that reallysurprised him.
So in that case I would say, ifthe Lord's putting it on your
heart, if you have a convictionthat like this is a man God's
putting in your life, don't beafraid.
You know, like it's okay forgirls to make the first move too
(11:54):
.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
Yes, all right, moving on this one is related,
so we can kind of continuetelling about our story a bit.
Okay, the question is how doyou pursue friendship prior to a
relationship?
Speaker 2 (12:08):
Go ahead.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
So Mari and I, I mean it was a quick friendship.
We fell hard and fast for eachother, but we were friends for I
don't know like two months.
So in the grand scheme ofthings that's not very long but
it felt long when we were in it.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
We thought it was like such a long time.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
But yeah, I mean we just would hang out, Like we
would just have really reallygood conversations and I mean we
would try to, I guess, beprudent in like what we would
share.
But like I don't know, I don'tthink we did a very good job at
that.
We were just just lovinghanging out with each other.
We would go to we went to likea concert together with a group
(12:47):
of friends and I'd hang out withher and her friends and their
apartment and I think it was westarted.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
When we started hanging out, like there was kind
of a natural thing that startedto happen, but truly like we
were both in a place where wewere like we don't feel like the
Lord is calling us to dateright now.
We feel like he's calling us toreally like pursue our faith.
We were both going through areversion in our own lives, um,
but we were both interested inbeing with each other.
So we said, like we're going topray about it and we're going
to wait for the Lord to let usknow and give us the go.
(13:15):
Like now you guys, like nowit's my will for you to date.
And so we had to set someboundaries, especially because
we already, like were interestedwith each other, in each other,
and I mean in college, likeyou're just like you're trying
to find the person you're goingto marry, you know, and it's
hard to do that.
But we had to set someboundaries.
We were like hey, we're goingto hang out with friends, you
know we're not going to beintimate.
Like no kissing or anythinglike that.
(13:35):
Like not until we're dating.
Like are we actually going toact like we're dating and we're
actually just going to spendtime talking, getting to know
each other, and those are someof my favorite memories Like we
spent hours talking about ourfamilies, like talking about
Trey and like his love forbaseball and you know the fact
that he grew up with sixsiblings.
I could not believe what thatwas like, you know.
And so just getting to know,like our childhood, our families
(13:57):
, and I think that was, yeah,that's what really helped us
build our friendship.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
Okay, I think a lot of people are going to be going
to a dating event tonight, right?
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Yes, I hope.
Speaker 3 (14:07):
So we have some questions about that.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Yes, Okay.
So first question here which isrelated to that.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
How do you bring up faith on a first date?
You didn't proof this with mefirst.
Okay, I have some thoughts.
Okay, I have some thoughts.
I don't think you have to bringup faith on the first date.
I disagree.
All right go, I want to hearyour take.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
Okay, my thought is this If your faith is the most
important thing in your life, ifit is like the number one,
non-negotiable, like it was forus, it should come up naturally
in those first conversations.
If it's not the most importantthing in your life, like, you're
not going to be naturallytalking about it, but if it is,
it can be a very casual thingand this is what I always like
(14:53):
tell my friends when they'regoing on dates Like you just
talk about going to church orBible study or your faith, as if
you're talking about like goingto Qdoba or Chipotle.
You know, like, don't make it athing of like, oh, by the way,
like I'm Catholic, you know,like you just like, oh, yeah,
like, what did you do thisweekend?
Oh, yeah, like I went to mass.
You know we're like, oh, I goto a Bible study on Tuesdays.
(15:15):
Yeah, like, oh, I grew upCatholic and you know something
like very casual and sometimesyou might feel awkward, but I am
like the biggest fan of likefake it till you make it.
And the more you talk aboutyour faith, the less awkward
it's going to get.
The less awkward it's going tobe to talk about your faith and
the more confident you are, themore the person that you're
getting to know is going tounderstand.
(15:35):
Like, oh, this is like a bigdeal in her life.
Like, does that fit with mylifestyle or not, and you want
to find out pretty soon?
Like, if you're trying to finda Catholic woman or man to marry
and this person's not Catholic,then don't waste your time.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
I mean, I think you convinced me, but the question
was how do you bring it up?
How do you bring it up?
Speaker 2 (15:55):
How do you bring it?
Speaker 3 (15:56):
up.
So how do you?
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Well, yeah, just like in a casual way, I think.
Like, talk about your weekend,talk about what you do.
One thing this is also anotherquestion that was here Any
advice for the speed datingevent tonight what do you ask on
a first date?
We like to ask or we like to.
When we're getting to knowsomebody like, and when people
are dating like, we ask or welike to.
When we're getting to knowsomebody like and when people
(16:17):
are dating like, we ask what areyou passionate about?
Like, what do you love?
What are your dreams, what areyou passionate about?
And I feel like faith shouldcome up in that conversation.
So that's a really easy answer.
If you want to talk about itbut it's not coming up, you
could ask them like, hey, whatare you passionate about, what
do you love most?
And they'll talk about whateverit is, and then, if they're a
good dater, they'll probably askyou too, like, what about you?
And then you could bring it upthere.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
Yeah, I think that's a great segue into like talking
about faith is what are youpassionate about?
And then if he asks thatquestion to you, then you can
obviously say your Catholicfaith and then you can hear
about that for him.
And if you start it by likeopening that door of faith
conversations, then it'll bemore easy for the other party to
(16:58):
also be like okay, great, let'stalk about this.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
But the other question that for that card was
questions to ask at the speeddating event tonight.
So what are you passionateabout?
But I also love like, what areyour dreams?
And skip the questions Likewhat do you do for work, Like
you have five minutes with eachother, so skip over all that.
That's no fun.
Um, so like ask questions.
What are you passionate about?
Uh, what are your dreams?
(17:22):
Where do you see yourself infive, 10 years?
Speaker 2 (17:26):
Um how would?
How would others describe you?
I feel like I learned so muchabout you when we were dating
because we were.
You were doing a project for aleadership class, and the whole
thing was like asking peoplethat really knew you to describe
who you were and what yourcharacter was like.
And this was like three weeksinto me meeting him and so I was
helping him with that project,and the way that he was
described by his family andfriends really gave me an
(17:47):
insight into who he was.
So that could be a goodquestion too yeah, yeah, or like
a recent.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
I like to know what somebody's recently really into,
and so I feel like sometimes wego through phases of like
something you're really, really,really into, and so I like to
ask that question Like what inthe past like month have you
been really into?
Like what are you binging rightnow?
So those are good questions fortonight.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
Okay, another question here what if they check
every box except forCatholicism?
Speaker 3 (18:17):
This is a tough one Flirt to convert.
That is good advice for tonightas well.
It is good advice, but it's notthe answer always.
You definitely want faith to be, don't?
It's not fully true is what I'msaying.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Yes, yes, and I think I think it's really going to
come down to personaldiscernment.
What my heart wants to sayright now right, because it's
it's what I found and what Ihave seen in my friends who have
really prioritized finding aCatholic man is don't drop that
as a standard.
Like that should be the numberone non-negotiable box.
(18:51):
And if you're negotiating thenit's not a non-negotiable, okay.
Like it needs to be anon-negotiable, because it's
really hard when you're datingto think about what the future
is going to look like, what yourmarriage is going to look like.
And then you get into marriageand it's beautiful and it's
amazing, but like you go throughreally hard things and I can't
imagine, I cannot imagine beingmarried to someone who was not
(19:13):
Catholic or did not have astrong faith life, or who
couldn't lead me and our futurechildren to heaven.
Personally, I don't desireanything else but a Catholic
marriage.
So for me I would say, if theycheck every box except for
Catholicism, really communicatethat and be like it's really
important for me to marrysomebody who is a practicing
(19:33):
Catholic.
Are you open to it at all?
Because the reality and what Iwant to say with this is that
the Lord will have.
Some of you marry someone who'snot Catholic and that might
just be a special mission thathe has for you and it may be
that that person's going toconvert.
That's always an option, sothat's why there is some
discernment with it.
But I would say like the personneeds to at least be open to it
(19:55):
and be supportive of you, goingto mass with you, maybe,
praying with you and being opento learning more.
But if they're like completelyclosed off, I would say it's not
the right person for you.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
Yeah, yeah, you said it beautifully.
I think the only thing I wouldadd is two things.
Only thing I would add is twothings.
One God has his own plan foreach of your lives, and so it's
between you and the Lord and theperson you're dating, and it's
different for everybody, so wecan't give a blanket answer.
But in the Catholic church, thesacrament of marriage is a
(20:30):
sacrament, and if you areCatholic, you need to be getting
married.
In the Catholic church.
It is a beautiful, beautifulsacrament and there's
sacramental graces that comefrom that, and you also are
obliged to raise your childrenin the Catholic faith, and so
those are the conversations youneed to have with the person
you're dating.
Uh, to to go down that road.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Yeah, yeah, okay, I have a fun question.
Okay, what is one thing thatannoys you guys about each other
, and how do you get past it?
Speaker 3 (20:58):
Do you?
Speaker 2 (20:59):
want to go first.
Speaker 3 (21:01):
I feel like this is a trap.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
I'll go first, okay, go.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
Okay, I'll go first.
I love you a lot and there'snot a lot of things that annoy
me about you.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
Good start.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
But one thing is you kind of mentioned it you process
a little slower start.
But one thing is you kind ofmentioned it you process a
little slower.
And so I feel like my brain asa woman is like 5,000 steps
ahead, and half the time whenwe're talking I'm just like I'm
already there, you know, likecatch up, catch up.
And so, truly for me, I justneed to practice patience.
I just need to be more humbleand practice patience, and I
(21:34):
told them this the other day.
I'm like we're in our 20s, man,it's only going to get worse.
Like you're only going to getslower, man.
Like I need to be patient now,you know, and so, truly,
marriage is sanctification andit's not that bad.
And if that's the top thingthat annoys me about you, then
I'm really lucky.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
All right, I'll start how you started.
There's a lot of things I loveabout you and there's very
little I don't like about you.
But what annoys me the most iswhen you can't decide what to
freaking eat or drink.
Every morning, I would love tomake her her drink and like
bring her her drink or herbreakfast in bed, or like cook
(22:14):
it for her, or like serve her inthat way, but every time I'll
get it wrong, so so it's veryhard.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
I'm very finicky about what I want to eat.
Speaker 3 (22:23):
It's like one morning it's coffee, one morning it's
decaf coffee.
One morning it's coffee, butit's iced.
And then it's vanilla, and thenit's honey, and then it's tea,
and then it's oh, I wantsomething, I want a smoothie.
So one day it's I love avocadotoast.
The next day it's oh, I wantsomething.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
I want a smoothie.
So one day it's I love avocadotoast.
The next day it's like avocadotoast makes me gag.
It's disgusting.
I would never have that.
Speaker 3 (22:39):
Yeah, or if we're just trying to like decide where
to eat same thing, yes.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
Okay, I don't know if you've seen this reel I think
it's a brilliant hack where theguy gets into the car and asks
the girl like oh, we're going togo eat, like guess where I'm
taking you?
And then she's like she likesays what she's most excited
about, and he's just doing thatto get her to decide.
And he's like, yes, chick-fil-ayou got it.
That's great, okay so you maybeneed to start doing that.
(23:04):
I'll tuck that in the pocket,okay, do you have a question?
Speaker 3 (23:10):
All right God at the center of our relationship while
in college and trying to growin faith as a couple.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
Really good yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:18):
I'll hand it to you.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
Yeah, I think, like I said in the beginning, what's
going to help you have aGod-centered relationship is
putting the Lord first in yourlife.
And I think when we were goingthrough that one thing you
mentioned, trey, was SarahSwofford.
She always says like run toheaven, like make that your goal
.
Like run to heaven, like makethat your goal, like run to
heaven and then turn to the sideand see who's running with you.
And so, first and foremost,focus on growing your own
(23:41):
relationship with the Lord,focus on daily prayer and
starting that habit from college.
I know that it feels like lifeis so busy in college and I
remember feeling that way too.
But this mentor we had incollege that taught us to pray
and guided us through ourrelationship and everything, he
would always tell us, like youare the least busy you will ever
be right now.
And I got so mad at him becauseI was like you don't understand
(24:03):
.
Like I'm in so many things,like I have a lot to do.
You know I'm busy, but he'slike no, you have no idea.
Like you get into the realworld, you become a wife, a
husband, a mother and a father.
Life just gets busy.
So in college, like, cultivatethese faith centered practices
now so that you can take thatinto your adult life and your
vocation, and that's what'sgoing to help you.
(24:24):
Um, yeah, really have faith atthe center of your relationship,
because it'll already be apractice for each of you in your
own lives.
Speaker 3 (24:31):
I think another way to keep God at the center of
your relationship is spiritualconversations.
This is something that CurtisMartin has talked about a lot is
making the faith just like acasual part of your
conversations, as opposed toisolating your faith to just
okay, as a couple, we go to mass, or as a couple like we do the
(24:54):
rosary together once a week orwhatever it is that you're doing
, instead of it having to belike these isolated instances
where you're practicing yourfaith together.
Just talk about your faith.
Talk about, hey, like what'sGod doing in your life right now
?
How was your prayer thismorning?
Like, what is something you'restruggling with?
How can I pray with you?
Like, if you guys are in Biblestudies you can talk about.
Like what did you guys talkabout Bible study?
(25:14):
Or if you're doing some extraspiritual reading, like, hey,
what's the meaning of learningthe book you're?
Speaker 2 (25:19):
reading right now what stood out in the homily, or
yeah?
Speaker 3 (25:21):
what's that?
I just like like haveconversations about it that are
outside of the actual thing thatyou do for your faith.
Um, then, it just is moreintegrated.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
And then to like choose something to grow in
together.
So when we were dating, um,part of it was because we had
this, uh, gospels class that wewere in together.
But we read scripture a lot andso sometimes we would go
through a portion of time wherewe were like, oh, we're going to
read the book of John, and so,like every Tuesday, we would
like get together and like reada chapter and then like pray
with it, talk about it, or weread um a spiritual book on well
, not spiritual book, on well,not spiritual book.
It was like a relationshipsbook, edward strees men women in
(25:56):
the mystery of love.
That was like the book that weread, and so it was good to read
.
It was short and sweet.
Each of us got a book.
We would each read one chaptera week.
Speaker 3 (26:03):
Then we'd come together and kind of like talk
about what we felt like stoodout to us, um, and that, like
trace had kept spiritualconversations at like the
forefront of our relationship orjust this this past Advent, you
were really great atencouraging us to do the Mike
Schmitz Father Mike Schmitzface-to-face for Advent, and so
we would just like watch thosetogether and talk about it.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Yeah, okay, how did you discern marriage?
Speaker 3 (26:31):
I feel like this falls on me because I had to
discern when to propose first,or if I was going to propose.
The if part was pretty easy.
I knew pretty early on to therelationship that I was going to
marry Mari, and so then thequestion was just when and
timing, and I mean it'sdifferent for everybody.
I took it to prayer to aspiritual director and to a
(26:55):
really close mentor of mine andtalked it out with them.
The spiritual director said doit yesterday.
My parents said wait six years.
No, they didn't.
It's just prayer, it'sdiscernment.
Discernment is a skill that youcan learn how to do, like the
(27:17):
more you do it, the more youdiscern things in your life.
You start to recognize thepatterns and the ways that God
speaks to you and like just thesilent movements that the spirit
works in your heart.
And so at that point I mean Iwas still pretty fresh into my
conversion, so I was like thiswas obviously a huge decision
and it took a long time todiscern it.
(27:38):
But ever since then I feel likeI've been able to like
recognize the patterns from thatdiscernment process into how to
discern other things in my life.
But to answer the questionabout, like how to decide and
discern marriage.
I think it was just like I feltGod, I was like I know she's the
one that I'm going to marry.
(27:58):
There's no reason to wait atthis point.
So I was a junior in college,which is very young.
I look back at that and that'scrazy, but I proposed junior
year of college.
We got married right when wegraduated and I think it's just.
It's about timing, like whenyou feel in your heart like
you're ready, uh, when God'scalling you to get married, when
(28:21):
you guys are ready to have kidsand like really take that next
step.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Um, those are all elements to play a part, I think
, a key thing you talk youmentioned is that you talk to
several mentors who are reallyrooted in the faith, like
Christ-centered people.
So, depending on who yourfriends are or your family, like
, if they're not practicing orif they're not, like, rooted in
the faith and that's the type ofmarriage you want to have, they
might not be the people thatyou want to get this advice from
(28:44):
Like.
So I think, finding a spiritualdirector, like maybe your
chaplain you know if there's apriest at your Newman Center or
something that you can talk toor even a missionary that can
kind of help guide you throughthat, somebody who is really
rooted in Christ and thatunderstands the power and the
weight of vocation, because theworld right now will tell you
like don't get married, you know, and don't get married young,
like don't be chained down bysomebody.
(29:05):
But I'll tell you like I thinkfor us we were young in college
but we just felt like if God'scalling us to our vocation, why
would we put that off?
Like our vocation is what'sgoing to take us to heaven, and
if we know, if we're gettingconfirmation now, like yes,
you're supposed to be marriedand this is the person you're
supposed to marry, why would weput that off.
So I think for me, a momentwhen I was going through a
(29:26):
discernment.
I was an intern with Focus a fewyears in a row for different
summers and one of the summers Iwas out in the University of
Mary doing internship stuffthere while the focus
missionaries were training andthere was so many priests and
religious around and duringdifferent times of prayer I felt
the Lord, like speak to me tosurrender my vocation.
(29:47):
And I was freaking out becauseI was super in love with him and
I'm like if the Lord's askingme to surrender my vocation, it
means he's asking me to be a nunand like I am so not about to
do that.
And we had this prayerexperience at Adoration and this
missionary came up to me andshe was like I'm sorry, do you
have arthritis?
And I was like no, she's like Ijust keep getting a vision of
(30:11):
like your hand, like your lefthand, is it hurting?
And I was like no, that must besomeone else.
Like that's not me.
And she's like I'm so sorry.
Okay, I'm going to keep prayingabout it.
She came back again like halfan hour later.
She's like it's you.
Like your left ring finger isstrained.
Are you praying about vocationat all.
And I was like, yeah, that's me.
(30:36):
And she was like I think theLord just wants me to tell you
to surrender your vocation.
Like he's going to take care ofyou.
That night I bawled my eyes outand I went to a priest that I
had been doing spiritualdirection with over the summer
and I told them this and he waslike God may very well be
calling you to get married.
And I was like no, like I meanI would love that, but like I
didn't know that I could havethat, like I'm like 21.
Like there's no way God'scalling me to do that.
(30:58):
And, you know, I was like myparents are going to kill me,
like they're not going to wantme to get married right now.
And through several sessions ofspiritual direction after that
summer, like we kept in touch.
We would.
I think it was like Skype atthe time I'm not that old, I
don't know what it was, just sayFaceTime.
Speaker 3 (31:14):
But it wasn't.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
Zoom.
We, like, did some video callswith this priest throughout the
summer and into the fall and wecontinued to pray with what I
felt like the Lord was puttingon my heart and this feeling of
engagement.
And I told myself I'm not goingto bring it up to Trey because
I don't want to influence hisdecision.
And when we ended up talkingabout, it turns out that same
summer we were both having thoseprayerful experiences in our
(31:36):
own prayer and both talking tospiritual directors, feeling
like the Lord was calling us toget engaged.
So, all in all, yourdiscernment is really going to
come down to prayer, and findinga good mentor that's gonna help
you discern God's voice.
Speaker 3 (31:49):
And beyond marriage.
If you're discerning anything,if you feel like you know what
God's calling you to do, begenerous with your yes.
Just do it now, like don't wait, don't delay, like if you know
God's calling you to dosomething, just do it now, like
it's going to be for your owngood.
It's going to give you the mostjoy, it's going to get you to
heaven, so don't keep puttingoff that decision.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
He'll provide If he's calling you to it, he'll
provide.
I think for us one of thethings we were most nervous
about, like we were brokecollege students, we're like we
don't have money.
How are you supposed to do this?
And Trey's spiritual directorwould always say, like, who said
you need money to like enterinto a sacrament?
You know?
Like God will provide.
And he did.
Speaker 3 (32:40):
And he did, became missionaries and we were fine.
We had nothing to freak outabout.
But the Lord will alwaysprovide whatever he's calling
you to do.
All right, this is.
This is fun.
What is a part of marriage that?
Speaker 2 (32:46):
is bringing you lots of joy.
Right now we have 10 minutes.
Okay, we're just like seriouslybest friends, like we do
everything together and I thinkthat we have a unique
relationship to where we likeactually get a lot of time to
spend together because obviouslywe live together but we also
work together.
We have a business that we ownand we work full time from home.
We have the same friends andthe same family, so we spend a
(33:08):
lot of time together.
But it is just so much fun tojust have this best friend, this
companion, who you get to makeso many memories with and chase
after your dreams.
Yeah, it's just friendship.
Speaker 3 (33:21):
Yeah, you took my answer, but yes, I'll just echo
that.
But then also, just, you'rehilarious, my, what You're
hilarious, oh what You're sofunny and goofy and so I think I
don't know, that's justsomething that came to mind
recently.
We were so funny and goofy andso I think, I don't know, that's
just something that came tomind recently.
I just feel like you're shemight put on this front, in
front of the screen, that she'sall stoic but she's so fun.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
Trey says I made him weird.
Speaker 3 (33:42):
Yes, I was normal.
And then I met Mari.
I was like I don't think I'mthat weird, and then her
weirdness rubbed off on me.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
I'm not weird guys.
Um, how do you practicechastity while dating?
This is a good one thatdefinitely needs to be talked
about.
Um, do you have anything to say, right?
Speaker 3 (34:01):
off the bat.
I mean you've spoken on this alot and you have like your
points.
I'm going to let you start, andthen I'll fill in the blanks.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
Yeah, it's really going to be about setting really
good boundaries for yourrelationship and setting those
early on so you both have anunderstanding of like what
you're pursuing together as agoal.
So you both need to be on thesame page of what you're trying
to do, right.
Speaker 3 (34:23):
Yeah, I think what you said there is early, like it
needs to be early on.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
Yes and both be on the same page.
If one person is like not onboard, that's going to be really
hard.
It's going to be really hardbecause you're going to struggle
and there's going to be timesof temptation, and if you're not
both fighting for the samething, it's going to be really
hard.
So I remember like when we weredating, we like set some
boundaries and it honestly feltstupid, cause I'm like I'm an
adult, like I don't need thesethings, like I totally trust
(34:47):
myself but don't trust yourself.
So some of the things we setwere like curfew.
We set a curfew for ourselves,which again I was like I'm in
college, I don't need a curfew,but it actually really helped.
So we would say like we don'thang out, like past, like I
think it was 10 pm 10 or 11 yeah, um, and then if it was like we
had to be in a group of people,like we had to be like in the
(35:08):
living room with our friends orlike out doing something, but
like we had no business hangingout with each other alone after
like 10 pm or 10.30.
We couldn't be in each other'srooms by ourselves and the door
always had to be open or peoplehad to be home.
Another thing I've heard a lotof people say is helpful is like
four feet on the ground, solike.
Speaker 3 (35:30):
Just don't be horizontal, don't be horizontal.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
Four feet on the ground and then just get back up
and try again, like go toconfession often.
Speaker 3 (35:40):
Yeah, yeah.
Confession is your best friend.
I think the only thing I haveto add to that is be explicit
with your boundaries, don't bevague and do it early on, and
then have mercy on yourself andget back up and God still loves
(36:01):
you.
And it's not the end of theworld, it's just go to
confession.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
Yeah, one thing too that I feel like was really
helpful for me, that I alwaysheld on to to wait for marriage,
was I think I heard it in aJason Everett talk when I was in
like high school or something,and he said those vows that you
make on the altar as a Catholic,you say for all the days of my
life, right, you say like I will.
You know, you make all thesevows for all the days of my life
.
And the way I looked at it wasevery single day of your life is
(36:27):
a day of your life.
You're not saying like I'mvowing myself to you from this
day forward, but you're trulysaying like for all the days of
my life, like I am completelyyours.
And so I would use that asencouragement for me of like I
want to, you know, be up on thealtar with my husband and have
that be truly what it means andjust be like every single day of
my life I waited for you and Ilike gave myself completely to
(36:50):
you.
So if that encourages you, takethat with you.
Speaker 3 (36:53):
The other thing is the book we recommended earlier,
men and Women in the Mystery ofLove.
It's basically the dumbed down,easy to read version of JP
Tooth's Theology of the Body andLove and Responsibility, and so
that gives you a lot of likereasons why it's really good to
be chaste and to love chastely,and so the other book that
really helped me was how to Findyour Soulmate Without Losing
(37:16):
your Soul, by Jason Everett.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
Like game changer of a book.
You guys, I'm out of questions,you're out of questions.
You have one more.
Speaker 3 (37:25):
How do you know if God sent a partner into your
life versus you forcing someoneinto your life?
Speaker 2 (37:33):
Yeah, First thing that comes to mind is peace.
When the Lord is leading you tosomething, there's going to be
peace.
It doesn't mean it's alwaysgoing to be easy, but there is
just an innate like stillness inyour heart and confidence in
what's going on and that it isof the Lord.
Speaker 3 (37:49):
And if you feel like there's a lot of tension, Like
if it truly feels forced rightUm, that there's no peace there,
yeah, and what you said earlier, uh, the Sarah Swofford quote
about don't worry so much aboutlike, don't be so fixated on the
other, just like be fixated, befixated on God, and just like
(38:11):
run to God.
And then what Sarah says, likejust strive after God and see
and run after God, and just likerun to God.
And then what Sarah says, likejust strive after God and see
and run after God and turn toyour left or right and see who's
running with you.
I think that's a great line.
And yeah, I mean, like I said,discernment is a skill.
If you keep doing it you'll geta lot better at it.
And then you can like discernthings quickly and so recognize
(38:31):
that's why I love journaling isI can like recognize.
When I journal and processexternally like that through
journaling and prayer, then I'mmore easily and quicker at
recognizing patterns in my life,like when I'm feeling this or
when I'm feeling this.
Then I can like feel the HolySpirit kind of nudge me in one
way or the other, but I mean,yeah, there's no answer, that's
(38:53):
like black and white.
For that you just got to pray.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
Yeah, I think it's kind of a cop out answer, but
it's the best answer.
I think too, like as Catholicwomen especially like, we get
caught up a lot in like thequestion of is he the one?
And I remember going to likeSteubenville conferences, you
know, and I was boy crazy sinceI was like 15.
And I was just like, oh my gosh, is this the boy I'm going to
marry?
Is this the boy I'm going tomarry?
Is this the boy I'm going tomarry?
I know Jackie said that in hertalk the other day and I heard
(39:17):
all you girls just like laughinglike ha ha ha, Like no, we all
know you're all thinking it andI think sometimes like we need
to let go of that a little bit,you know, and pray for him to be
prepared spiritually,emotionally, physically.
(39:38):
However, it is that you know youwant to pray for him and bless
him and then ask less of thequestion of like is he it?
Is he it?
Is he it?
And I know that it's differentfor every person, but a lot of
people you talk to it's likeyou'll know, like truly and
especially, if you are alignedwith the Lord and in his grace
and praying and discerning daily, like you'll know who it is,
(39:59):
you'll feel that in your heart,you'll feel that confidence of
God and that peace of the HolySpirit in your heart that, like
this, is the open door God'sleading you to.
So it's less about like tryingto figure out which guy in your
life is the one and instead,like Trey said, like really
pursue the Lord, look to theside and if there happens to be
somebody that's there, that'slike a really good man, like
(40:19):
that might be a really goodoption.
Speaker 3 (40:21):
Yeah, then this last question is really really
similar.
It's basically just asking howto surrender your love life to
the Lord, and I mean that goeswith anything in life, not just
your relationship or your lovelife.
I mean that goes with anythingin life, not just your
relationship or your love life.
But how do you surrenderanything that you're desiring to
the Lord?
And you said this with yourvocation.
(40:41):
Discernment is, just because yousurrender something to the Lord
doesn't mean he's taking itfrom you.
He could very well just give itright back to you, but he wants
to give it to you and if you'renot surrendering it to you, if
you're not surrendering it toGod, then he can't actually give
it to you, because you're justtrying to take it or just like
create it for yourself and so,uh, like trust that God is good
(41:03):
and ultimately, like he desiresthe best for you and he's a good
father, and so by surrenderingit to him you could get that
right back and it would bebetter and blessed and a gift
from God.
Uh, so don't be afraid tosurrender things.
I mean it's so freaking hard,but, um, just just daily prayer.
Speaker 2 (41:21):
And yeah, another thing, um too, is like surrender
multiple or not surrender, uh,discern multiple vocations.
So like don't completely closethe Lord, close the door on
religious life if the Lordhasn't closed it for you.
Trey went to like a seminariancome and see type of thing,
(41:41):
right, like something like that,where you were just like and we
were actually still dating andI was terrified but he was like
I mean, I haven't thought aboutit super seriously, but I
haven't completely closed thedoor and I just feel like the
Lord's calling me to like go tothis retreat and like surrender
my vocation and and I thinkthat's a really powerful thing
yeah, I went and I was like I'mgetting married, so and the Lord
?
made it clear like the Lordclosed that door.
(42:02):
And I think, similarly to me,in that moment of prayer when I
surrendered my vocation and Iwas like, oh my gosh, god's
going to ask me to be a nunwhich, if he's asking you to be
a sister, like truly, that willbe what brings you the most joy
in your life.
Your vocation will bring youthe most joy in your life and if
you're meant to be a sister,you're going to be more joyful
in that vocation than inmarriage.
(42:23):
But I was scared in that moment, but I surrendered it and then
I feel like the Lord quicklygave it right back to me and I
think a lot of the times, atleast when I was in college, I
felt like because of mytestimony and the way that I was
living in the world before Imet the Lord, right, I felt like
a lot of the ways that I wasliving in, a lot of the things I
desired the Lord didn't wantand it was like he immediately
(42:45):
opposed for me, right, and so itwas a natural thing for me to
feel like, oh, like I reallywant this vocation.
God probably doesn't want thatfor me, right?
Because he didn't wantdrunkenness for me, he didn't
want impurity for me and so thatinitial desire of like I really
want this, he might take itaway.
That's a natural thing we mightfeel, but that's not true.
Like the Lord places desires onyour heart, and especially with
(43:10):
vocation, like those are reallygood desires and in the end
he's going to lead you If youare open, if you are discerning,
if you're in grace with theLord.
Like he's not going to trickyou, he's not going to lead you
astray, he's going to lead youexactly to what's going to get
you to heaven.
Speaker 3 (43:25):
Great, it's out of time.
Where can they find more of you?
Speaker 2 (43:29):
Oh yes, so Ever Be podcast is on Spotify, apple, I
think.
I don't know if people listento podcasts on other things, but
it's probably on that as well.
We're also on Instagram at everbe podcast, and then my
personal blog you can find it atat maricwagner.
And then our Catholic lifestylebrand is West Coast Catholic.
You can find it atwestcoastcatholicco, and our
(43:53):
Instagram is atwestcoastcatholic Hope you wrote
that down.
Speaker 3 (43:57):
That's a mouthful, but thanks so much guys.
Speaker 2 (43:59):
Thank you guys.
Speaker 1 (44:00):
Thanks for listening to this episode recorded live at
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