December 5, 2024 • 46 mins
Join us on the SEEK Podcast as we delve into the theme “Come Follow Me,” exploring how to merge faith with financial stewardship. In this special episode, produced in collaboration with SEEK and The Catholic Money Show, we feature guest hosts Jonathan and Amanda from WalletWin. Together, we look at the journeys of saints who exemplify using wealth for spiritual growth and service.
Discover the transformative legacy of St. Catherine Drexel, who channeled her immense inheritance into founding schools and supporting marginalized communities, embodying a modern-day St. Francis. We also celebrate the venerable Pierre Toussaint, a former slave who rose to prominence in New York City, using his influence and resources to aid others and foster church missions.
Our discussions extend to St. Matthew, highlighting the balance of money, faith, and virtue, and the contemporary challenges in aligning our financial actions with our spiritual values. This episode not only revisits the profound impact of past SEEK conferences on our faith journeys but also inspires listeners to consider how their financial decisions can reflect their faith and contribute to a richer, more fulfilling life.
Register for SEEK: seek.focus.org
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the Seek Podcast, where we explore faith,
inspire hope and buildcommunity.
My name is John Michael Lucidoand I'm excited to invite you to
join us this season as we diveinto topics about the faith with
people from all over theCatholic world.
Thank you for listening totoday's episode.
Know that we are praying foryou.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Jesus invites us to come follow Him In our whole
lives.
How do we do it with our money?
Let's find out by looking atthe lives of the saints in this
episode of the Catholic MoneyShow.
Hello and welcome to thisspecial episode produced in
(00:43):
collaboration with Seek25 andthe Catholic Money Show.
We are here to talk about thattheme of Come Follow Me, the
theme of the conference thisyear.
And well, how do we do that inall of our lives?
We're going to be talking aboutthat one part our pockets.
But first let's talk a littlebit about Seek.
(01:04):
I love Seek.
I've been going to Seek sincebefore it was called Seek.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Yeah, it was called many a different thing in our
times.
I think our very first one wasway back in 2004, perhaps 2005,
somewhere around there, andwe've been nary to miss one of
these events, and only throughvery unique circumstances have
we ever missed yes, there mayhave been one.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
I was.
I was in the with one of ourchildren, yeah, and then there
was there was a year, though,where they did split up and you
went to two, so maybe that okay,so it kind of washed out yeah
it covers it a little bitbittersweet, though this year
yes, so we've just had a lotgoing on in our lives, including
the passing of my father, sohis name's Mike, pray for him.
(01:52):
That'd be great.
So that and the transitioning,you know, getting my mom all set
up to live on her own now after40, whatever years of marriage.
It's just a whole lot going on.
So we're passing on Seek thisyear but we are so excited about
it.
We said let's still do thepodcast, though.
(02:14):
Guys, Keep us on there.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
We can't not talk about this event, because this
really is an event that weattribute so much of our own
faith lives.
You know it's almost40-somethings now.
We really began to take ourfaith seriously in college when
we got involved with Focus, andthen, as we went to the
(02:36):
conferences, they were keyfactors in our own ongoing
conversion.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
And fantastic formation.
So, whether you're interestedin going head on over to the
website, follow their socialmedia handles, watch the videos
as they come out online, or orget access to the talks Uh,
there's usually just so manygold nuggets that happen at an
event like this.
The Holy spirit is very active,very present and tangible.
Um, and I I can't wait to seewhat's going to happen.
(03:05):
This year.
As Jonathan had said, the themeis Come Follow Me, this calling
of those earliest disciples tofollow Jesus.
And now this Come Follow Me hasechoed across the centuries as
our Lord continues to invitedisciples to follow him in the
unique facets and areas of theirlives, always a little bit
(03:29):
different than maybe somebodyelse, and I can't wait to dive
into exploring how does thatlook with our finances, with our
money?
But then the patron saint ofthis conference is also St Joan
of Arc, who I feel like ishaving a little bit of a moment.
She's having a little bit of amoment.
In the last couple of yearsI've heard some very compelling
talks given on her.
Her life is gosh.
(03:52):
It's bewilderinglyinspirational.
It really is, if you reallylook at the details, what Some
saints were talking to you.
You just went to the king andtold him how it was going to be.
You led an army, okay.
So I am sure a mixture betweenher intercession and her story,
(04:14):
combined with Come Follow Me,the Holy Spirit and all of the
different speakers that aregoing to be at this event, with,
of course, our Lord inEucharistic Adoration, it's got
all the components Absolutely.
The ultimate mic drop is in thesilence of adoration, and so
the combined elements there areripe for conversion and for
(04:39):
transformation, and I can't waitto see the fruits of it.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Yes, absolutely.
I don't think we've introducedourselves.
If you're new to us, you'remaybe finding this in the Seek
podcast feed.
Well, we are Jonathan andAmanda Texer.
We were missionaries with Focus, who puts on Seek, for about
nine years or so, involved asstudents.
Before that we were on-campusmissionaries and then each of us
(05:03):
involved in the very early daysof the Focus Digital Campus and
Focus Greek and the summerprojects all over the place in
Focus, and at least I had anumber of roles also at past
SEEK conferences.
So it's very happy.
We're happy to be backeverybody.
Thank you for having us.
So it's very happy, we're happyto be back.
(05:24):
Everybody, thank you for havingus.
And in that time, since we'veleft Focus staff, we have
started a company called WalletWin and we are hosts of the
weekly podcast, the CatholicMoney Show, and we talk all
about the things that you knowthe intersection of our faith
and our finances.
How do we put these two thingstogether to really use our money
as Catholics?
(05:45):
So we do that through thepodcast.
We wrote a book, we have ouronline course, the Catholic
Money Course, our online academy, all sorts of things, kids'
classes it's all there so thatyou can be the good steward that
you were made to be.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
And that really that mission, that call came from the
time that we were actually onstaff and it kind of like a
Mother Teresa moment.
She talked about having a callwithin a call.
You know she was already areligious sister teaching
education to school children andreceived a call to go serve in
religious life in a differentway to the poorest of the poor
on the streets and those whowere dying and who were sick,
(06:22):
and when we were on staff, wejust kept hearing this echo of.
You know, there are a lot ofvoices out there talking about
money and unpacking financesfrom a secular perspective or
from a Protestant Christianperspective, but it's not being
done from a Catholic perspectiveand the church has oh so much
to share on this topic and thelives of the saints.
(06:45):
It's really subtle, but theyooze with wisdom around money
and who's going to unpack this?
And so that's when we said, yes, lord, we'll follow you.
And in 2017 is when we uhstarted wallet win, and it has
been growing ever since, withgod leading the way.
So it's been an honor and aprivilege and I can't wait to
(07:06):
unpack a few of those saintstories in this episode.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
When I think about come follow me, I think about
that painting.
I believe it's a Caravaggio, ifI'm not mistaken.
But you know that one, matthew,is sitting there at the table
and of course they're all inwhatever time period that was
like the Renaissance orsomething.
(07:31):
They're all in those fancyclothes and stuff.
Okay, it's kind of all dark.
So, yeah, it probably isCaravaggio.
Jesus is there and he'spointing at him, he's pointing
to him and he's saying, ofcourse, come follow me.
He's calling the apostles, andthen there's Matthew.
He's sitting at the end of thetable.
He's like oh, me, me, you meanme.
(07:53):
So when I hear come follow,that's the image I think of.
So I think about Matthew.
He's there and this is maybehelpful because he's sitting
there at the table with all themoney you know collecting the
taxes, like he's sitting theredoing the accounting from his
work as a tax collector yeah,something like that.
Yeah, he's there and Jesus isright there, showing up in the
midst of it all, calling him outof it, just how he in our lives
(08:19):
certainly in mine.
He showed up.
I wasn't really expecting itand he says, hey, you come here,
follow me.
And he's called out of what heused to do, now to live a new
way.
And we'll get back to Matthewin a little bit.
But I want to continue downthis road of looking at these
(08:39):
saints to see how can we followJesus, how have some other folks
done it before, to inspire usand how we can live our lives.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
And I want to point this out right away at the
beginning of the episode.
Why is this important?
Why would we look at differentexamples of how the saints
interacted with, managed,thought about, interact and
handled money?
I think it's important becauseif you are in the United States
of America, for example,essentially there's only one
right track, and that's just getas rich as possible and do
(09:13):
whatever you want, whenever youwant, however you want, in
whatever quantity you want, andthat money is worshipped.
It is the end, all be all.
Essentially, if you really justthe end, all be all Essentially
, if you really just you don'thave to peel back layers that
deep to know that that isessentially the American way.
(09:34):
Just how can I get rich and doit quick, truly?
And I think sometimes, asdisciples, this can be a great
stumbling block for us, becausesome of us will be called to
great amounts of wealth by ourvocation or by being asked to
start a business or potentiallyinheriting it.
There could be a variety ofcircumstances where we end up
(09:56):
with a tremendous amount ofwealth, but that is not going to
be the call for everyone.
We see in the parable of thegood steward, even in scripture,
one was given five talents.
One was given three and one wasgiven one.
Was it Two and one?
Five?
Two and one?
And the five and the two?
They doubled it.
(10:16):
The one buried it in the ground.
He wept and gnashed his teeth.
But the other two, theystewarded it prudently and well
and they were able to gain areturn for their master and they
were praised, welcomed into the, to the feast, and they were
given a party.
Essentially, each of us aregoing to be given a different
amount of time, talent andtreasure.
Honestly, it's the Lord knowswhat is best for our salvation
(10:40):
and that is what he is going togive to us.
And that is what he is going togive to us, and if we reject
that, we're rejecting a part ofthe way he wants to make us holy
and to make us sanctified.
And so we do not all need to beon one path towards get as much
money as fast as I possibly can.
We need to be more attuned toasking our Lord what do you want
(11:03):
In his call towards us of comefollow me?
Part of that we need to ask himis how do you want the money to
look, lord?
And we're going to see in theexample of the lives of the
saints, that that is going tovary and that's okay.
For some it's going to mean alot of money, for some it's
going to be just a moderateamount, and for others it could
(11:25):
be a call to mean a lot of money, for some it's going to be just
a moderate amount, and forothers it could be a call to
taking a vow of poverty.
We just have to be docile andto listen to how he wants that
to look in our life and toreject what the world is saying
it should look.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
And it's going to be a variety of different ways.
So we picked out three saintsto look at today, or saints.
We threw a venerable in therefor a little fun, so let's check
it out.
The first one I want to talkabout.
She is a saint near and dear toour hearts here at Wallet Win,
Our patroness, St CatherineDrexel.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
Love her American born Fun fact about St Catherine
Drexel.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
She was born Catherine Drexel, catherine with
an E, and then, when she becamereligious, she became Catherine
with an A.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
I'm not sure.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
I don't know why.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
We should dig into the details there.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
That's so interesting , I wonder if it was a little
bit of just.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
It's a little more challenging or difficult, or
it's a visual swap.
Maybe she's real type A andneeded that.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
Or inviting that mortification of my name's going
to get spelled wrong probably.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
Or maybe it just symbolized in that swap.
I'm different.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
I'm a new person.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
yes, we should dig a little deeper into that Fun
little fact there about her, Ithought, you were going to share
a fun fact about how.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
Similar thing though St Francis Xavier Francis with
an I Francis Xavier CabriniFrancis with an E.
Anyway, this is not theCatholic spelling show.
This is the Catholic money show.
So let's talk about the money.
If you don't, if you aren'twell acquainted with old Katie,
(13:15):
she is a heck of a woman.
She was born into this beyondwealthy banking family in
Philadelphia.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
Yes, the Drexels were business partners with JP
Morgan.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Yes, as in JP Morgan Chase, the Drexel company
banking company was around untilabout the 70s.
Of course, generations andgenerations gone on.
They got caught up in some badaccounting stuff.
They're no longer in business,but even for a very long time
(13:52):
the Drexel name was involved inbanking and back then of course
they were probably one of thefew.
So they had considerable wealthIn today's money they'd be $400
million at least of just theirown personal wealth, monetary
wealth.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
And as Catherine grew up in this family, uh, her, her
mom died when she was veryyoung and then her dad ended up
remarried and then, um, theywent on to have more children as
well.
So she did have siblings, um,but, Catherine, she grew up with
these very virtuous parents whodidn't see money as just a way
to.
(14:32):
Of course, they had very lovelyand nice things and they they
went to Europe, probably forsome business deals, but you
know they're the nanny that theymade sure to hire, always took
them to daily mass and toshrines and, um, they used those
trips, as you know, that humanformation and spiritual
formation opportunities.
Her parents took the faith veryseriously.
They were paying the, the, therent or the mortgage for many
(14:54):
families in Philadelphia, and Ithink there was one or two days
a week at their home, but evenwhen they would go to their
vacation home out in the countrythat people would come to the
back door and she would watchher mother just give out money
to whoever for whatever it wasthe medicine that they needed or
the groceries they needed tobuy or the rent they needed to
pay.
And this is what theyprioritized was providing for
(15:18):
their family, of course, butthen they used money as a tool
and a vehicle to bless others,and they knew that it was, they
were fortunate to receive it andthey wanted to pass that gift
on to others who were not in thesame position.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
Yes, and that continued in Catherine's life as
she grew up.
Her father died and theinheritance is left to her and
her sister.
So she had two sisters split upequally three ways, and so
millions upon millions, hundredsof millions of dollars that
(15:52):
she's now in charge of.
And over this time her heart isbeginning to break Through her
spiritual director.
He did a lot of work and otherpriest friends did a lot of work
out west in those days, themissions, the missions out to
the American Indians and toAfrican Americans.
(16:14):
So she was just the Lord, justkind of grew her heart for in
particular those two groups offolks, and so she eventually
just kind of heard the call anddiscern that she was to help
these folks and she was tryingto figure out how to do it and
then again discern to I'm goingto become a religious sister,
(16:36):
I'm going to start a community.
These are the people we areserving.
This is our charism the welfare, the education of American
Indians and African Americans.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
Now on her way there.
Just not.
You know we're not going to getthis into all the other saints,
but we care a little bit moreabout Catherine Drexel and just
know all the ins and outs of herstories based on books we've
read.
Her spiritual director actuallychallenged her at first.
He was like you know you comefrom all this wealth.
I don't know A vow of poverty.
(17:08):
It just might be too extreme.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
I don't think you can cut it.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
It might be too much.
Maybe you're just called tohave a lot of wealth and to give
it away during your lifetime.
To grow it and give it awaythat's absolutely a path.
But she was faithful to goingto adoration and listening to
our Lord.
Sometimes our spiritualdirectors might mean well, but
we are the ones that areultimately going to hear what
(17:32):
God is asking.
And she just kept hearing.
No, I am to become a religious.
And I believe she spent timewith other communities and
ultimately discerned yes, shewas supposed to start her own
order and that money that sheinherited was to be the
lifeblood of getting this offthe ground and serving these
(17:52):
vulnerable populations gettingthis off the ground and serving
these vulnerable populations.
And so she went right intobuilding schools and providing
the resources that these peopleneeded to grow in their faith
and to be educated and to servein the communities.
So this is really what she gotstarted.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Yeah, she started dozens of schools.
What she got started?
Yeah, she started dozens ofschools.
She began Xavier Universitydown in New Orleans and did so
much work.
She was a little bit of aspitfire.
I believe the story issomewhere down in the South
there was some law that said,hey, black people, you got to
sit in the back pew.
And so they installed the pewssideways.
(18:36):
Uh, so they were all the backpew and everybody could just
scooch down to the side, to thefront.
That's great, I love it.
But she gave.
So all this, this inheritanceof this income of millions and
millions of dollars a year, shejust, you know, just gave to the
order and, uh, during herlifetime, the united states, it
(18:57):
started the income tax.
So now the amount available,because all this was income from
the businesses and everythingthat was coming in through
inheritance.
So now there's just so muchless money to use.
The Congress saw Miraculouslyenough.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
The United States government, believe it or not,
saw the good work that she wasdoing and passed a law that said
if you are giving away 90% ofyour income or more each year
for the last five years orsomething like that, you're good
.
We don't need any income taxfrom you.
So she I mean she was givingaway 100%.
You know she wasn't keeping,you know, a couple million in
(19:41):
her back pocket or anything, buteverybody knew that this law
was probably only ever going toaffect Catherine Drexel.
So they passed a law.
The government said you knowwhat?
We would rather not have acouple extra million dollars
every year, why don't?
Speaker 3 (20:00):
you do it.
Because you're doing such?
Speaker 2 (20:02):
effective work.
You're so incredible.
The work you're doing is sogreat.
Wouldn't that be something huh?
Speaker 3 (20:06):
Wouldn't that be something?
Speaker 2 (20:08):
Wow, so good.
So she's incredible.
She started all these schools,did all this good work and,
depending where you are in thecountry, she may have been in
your area, especially if you'reout east, but then of course she
did come west to establishthese schools, all of this.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
We have one just in our diocese about an hour and a
half north.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Yep, and I know back in Pennsylvania there's a
building I know, at least inCarlisle, that she was using as
a school, I think at one point.
Anyway, she's incredible and wesee in her story this great
wealth that the Lord asked herto handle, to steward well and
to put entirely to the use ofbuilding up the kingdom, of
(20:52):
saving souls and performingworks of mercy.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
But she herself was called to a vow of poverty.
Yes, so I want that distinctionto be made known.
She's kind of like a St Francisof a.
Sisi type they share, that somepeople will be called to
absolutely turn away from andrenounce any claim over finances
(21:16):
and they'll take the vow ofpoverty.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
trusting completely in divine providence, I would
say slight difference though,which is interesting because
francis came from some wealth.
Um, he's like nope, nope, I'mjust we're gonna beg for it all.
Now, saint catherine's orderthey got the income.
It was was like yes, okay,we've got this.
This is not for me.
I'm taking this, you know,funneling or whatever, to the
(21:39):
order.
And there we go.
Now, interestingly enough, herfather didn't want all these
dudes coming after his daughtersto try to marry them just for
the money.
So he wrote the inheritance insuch a way that they could only
continue down to theirdescendants, and so catherine
(22:01):
didn't have descendants.
Uh, in the you know thetraditional physical legal sense
.
So when she died, the tap gotturned off and the that order.
Now, you know, they rely onprovidence.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
They relate like everybody, you know they rely on
Providence, like everybody elsenow.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
Yeah, they rely on Providence.
They don't have the big moneycoming in the mail.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
And that was a discernment that she had.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (22:23):
Was do I legally get this changed?
Speaker 2 (22:25):
Yeah, because everybody thinks yeah there's
probably a case that she and thesisters could make that this is
the work that's going tocontinue on after me.
Blah, blah, blah, but they nope.
This is the way you know.
My dad set it up and our ourfather in heaven.
He will also provide for usafter her death.
Speaker 3 (22:51):
Beautifully.
She had two other sisters thatdid not become religious, but
they also handled money veryprudently, very wisely, very
generously in the kingdom.
So really there was just Ithink it's a, it's a testament
mostly to the the way theirparents managed money so well,
so virtuously.
Their children were juststudents of that and they saw
money handled um the way itought to be, and so they were
(23:13):
able to grow up and, even ifthey weren't taking vows of
poverty, able to live in anappropriate relationship with it
, which I think speaks volumes.
All right, so that's onevocation, right St Catherine
Drexel, the wealthy heiress whotakes a vow of poverty.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
Which was earth shattering at the time.
Newspapers all over the country, but even around the world,
covered this wild idea that thismulti-millionaire heiress would
give it all up to become a nun.
Incredible.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
As if she didn't find a bigger treasure.
That's what they really coulddo.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
It's like if Taylor Swift became a nun.
Speaker 3 (24:01):
Right, think of how crazy the world would go.
Everybody'd freak out, yeah,but that's you know, minus all
the love, drama and the songs.
Katherine was pursuing virtueher whole life.
But so it's kind of similar inthe wheelhouse, but but yes, it
would be that radicalfinancially speaking all right,
all right, let's talk aboutsomebody.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
Let's move on our next, and this is one we haven't
talked too much about, so I dida little more research on we've
been discussing him for a whilewe've known a little bits of
his story.
I've got a little bit more umagain.
We won't go into as much detailon everybody, uh, but this next
one.
So he's not a saint yet.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
In the canonization process.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
Yes, he is beyond servant of God.
He's got called up to the nextlevel right in the minors.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
Let's ask this guy for some miracles.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
He's incredible.
Yes, venerable Pierre Toussaint, so he's not a French guy, he
was American.
He's American.
He was born a slave in Haiti,hence the French name.
And then.
So in his life, his masters didteach him to read, or allow him
(25:09):
to learn how to read, and then,when the master's son went to
New York, he and a couple otherswent with to, you know, help
him, you know, to serve him, andall that.
In that time he one of his jobswasn't just, like you know,
clean this or whatever, but togo out and earn a living for the
(25:33):
family.
So he was apprenticed to ahairdresser and he eventually
became like one of the premierhairstylists in New York City.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
That's like premier hairstylist in the world.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
That's like hairstylist to the stars kind of
guy.
This is who right, I don'tthink they crossed paths or
anything.
This is who Catherine Drexelwould probably get to do her
hair, yeah, if she was in likethat level of uh of stuff.
And so so he's making quite abit of money doing this and he's
(26:07):
, you know, gave it to thefamily.
Um, the master died.
Of course, he's still a slave tothe family, but he sees that,
yes, this is an unfortunatesituation, that I'm in slavery,
not dignified or any of that,but in a weird way, like
accepting it, that he is here toserve this family.
(26:30):
The circumstances be as theymay, that is a job put before me
and, in Christ, I will acceptit.
So he just pours himself into.
He's taking care of the widow,all this stuff, and I mean he's
doing, he's earning the moneyfor the household and then when,
as she's dying, she, you know,frees him, gives him his freedom
, he continues to work.
(26:50):
So I mean that doesn't changehis status as a hairdresser.
So everybody's still coming tohim.
Still, him his freedom, hecontinues to work.
I mean that doesn't change hisstatus as a hairdresser.
So everybody's still coming tohim, still making piles of money
.
Now he's using the money to buythe freedom of other slaves.
He's using it to, you know,fund missions and religious
(27:13):
communities.
There's a group of sisters, ofblack sisters, in Baltimore.
He helps, you know, give them alot of money.
He helps raise and give a tonof money for St Patrick's
Cathedral Not the big one thatyou've probably been to, oh,
that other one.
The old St Pat's, which backthen was the brand new St Pat's
Beautiful church, though.
So go do it.
But he, I mean, he went todaily mass at St Pat's, which
back then was the brand new StPat's Beautiful church, though.
(27:35):
So go do it.
But he, I mean he went to dailymass at St Peter's in New York,
which you can still go to.
But this rich faith life justmade him want to use this skill
that he developed to earn allthis money to make a lot of good
things happen.
He eventually, you know, hemarried a lady to earn all this
(27:55):
money to make a lot of goodthings happen.
He, eventually, he married alady.
They never gave birth to kids,but they adopted at least one of
his orphaned nieces, theyhelped all sorts of other
orphans and charities, and allthat through their work and
their wealth considerable wealth.
And at one point he was gettinga little older.
And someone wealth,considerable, considerable
(28:15):
wealth.
And at one point he was gettinga little older.
And someone goes hey, pierre,um, do you ever think about
retiring?
I mean, just enjoy the moneyyou've made, man.
Speaker 3 (28:24):
Right.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Look at all you've done so far and look at kick
your feet up, man, relax, I'llbe cutting all that hair.
And he said to them.
He said, and he said to them.
He said I could retire, I haveenough money for me, but if I'm
not working I won't have enoughfor all the others.
So he saw his ability to workright, that that that god-given
(28:47):
like dignity of work, theability to see the fruits of his
labor not merely for himselfbut for others.
And so, again, he not called toa vow of poverty, not a priest,
not a religious total layman.
He is the only lay personburied in St Patrick's in New
(29:12):
York, the big St Patrick's, theone that you know about.
Speaker 3 (29:15):
He's under the altar there.
The only one Smack dab in themiddle With cardinals.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
All the cardinals, everybody With Fulton Sheen.
Speaker 3 (29:25):
He was doing their hair.
He's doing their hair.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
Yeah, but he's the only layperson in the cathedral
I've got goosebumps.
Speaker 3 (29:33):
He had a huge impact.
I've got goosebumps.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
He had a huge, I've got goosebumps thinking about
this.
Speaker 3 (29:37):
I mean he was.
He had this tremendous outsizedimpact in New York.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
City and he's.
I saw this.
There's a video the Archdiocesehave about this but somebody's
like leading a tour about him orsomething and he could have
been on the side, right, itlooks like they're kind of
filling in like this in theslots.
He's in the very middle, likethe last slot, the bottom slot
in the middle, and if you'reupstairs, this is the crypt
(30:01):
underneath the altar.
If you're up there and you'repeeking down the stairs, he's
the only name you can see.
He's the one that you can seefrom up top.
That's crazy, he's awesomePrime parking.
Yes, he's got the deluxe parkingpass.
Speaker 3 (30:20):
Yes, that's amazing.
He's a quite a story.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
So again, so not this huge inheritance he started
with nothing.
Negative when he was workinghis money was taken.
Yes, craziness yeah likestarting from beyond nothing.
Yes, way up to the top, did itall with love and then used this
(30:46):
incredible wealth not just toyou know get himself.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
I'm sure he had some nice stuff I'm sure he did, and
there's nothing wrong with that,but it wasn't his goal or focus
exactly, was always what can Ibe doing to help the church, to
help others to, to reallysteward this well?
Speaker 2 (31:04):
and so, yes, like he took seriously.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
Incredible come follow me he was very serious.
Oh yeah, he was covered in thedust of very few people could um
, you know, I could think of,like saint Josephine Bakhita too
, you know have slavery besomething that was a
transformative experience, insome way drawing you closer to
God.
I think that's very difficult,I think that would be very hard
(31:28):
or impossible for many people.
Only with God and his gracecould that actually be something
that could sanctify you andthat virtue that that built, and
that abandonment to our Lord.
He just continued to grow himand sanctify him and then, when
he had full possession of thoseresources, no one would have
probably judged the guy if hedid want to use most of it on
(31:48):
himself or use it to to, toreally lean into enjoying things
that he wasn't able to enjoypreviously.
But this was a disciple and soI'm sure he he did some of those
things, and in New York city, Imean, there's plenty of fun
things to do.
Our courtship.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
Do you think you ever went to a Yankees game or a
Dodgers game or something?
Speaker 3 (32:09):
Why wouldn't he have and but but wasn't again the
goal or the focus?
And when money becomes againlike what America oftentimes
will teach people directly orindirectly money is the end goal
, it's the end-all be-all, it'sthe purpose of work, it tends to
(32:30):
be the only thing.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
All these people were putting you down.
I mean quite literally, they'reslave work, it's that.
It it's tends to be the onlything people were putting you
down.
They, you know you were.
I mean quite literally, you,they're slave.
And then like, now it's yourtime to get yours.
Oh, yeah, to them and theechoes of our culture.
Speaker 3 (32:46):
you can just tell that through his life he said,
no, I, I I'm come, follow me.
I serve somebody who's beenspeaking a message for for
centuries, calling his, hispeople to follow him in these
contradictory ways that theworld can't understand, frankly,
but that bring you peace, thatbring you joy, that transform
(33:06):
you and the world around you.
And I would love to learn morejust about the tangible fruits
and the effects of venerablePierre Toussaint on New York
City and then how that'strickled out into the United
States and the world beyond him.
And I'm sure as his processgoes on and continues, god
willing, in our lifetime we'llget to unpack more of that story
(33:26):
and see him canonized a saint.
But what a beautiful example ofa layman who put money in its
right place and was not.
He was serving God, not mammon,and he was putting mammon at
the service of our Lord.
That can be the tricky spot forthe laity because it's easy to
get tangled up in suddenly, allof a sudden you're just
(33:49):
everything you're doing is justto get the next paycheck or to
get the next raise, withoutreally sometimes realizing it,
and really the eyes need to beon our Lord and all of these
things are at the service of himand his kingdom, and whatever
vocation he's calling us totaking care of those under our
charge and then transforming andbeing generous with our
community.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
Absolutely it's.
It can be so tricky because andthen maybe you realize, oh,
I've slipped into this thinkingor whatever.
And then maybe the firstreaction, I'm going to give it
all up, I'm going to go take avow of poverty, I'm going to go
to religious life or whatever.
It's really tricky, but it'swhat's asked of, I think, the
(34:30):
vast majority of us uh, to havethe money and to use it well.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
I have talked with some religious sisters before
and maybe not all of them feelthis way, uh, or priests, um you
know, or or brothers, but somesome of them have told me that
they think it takes more virtueto become a saint in laity than
it does in religious life or thepriesthood, and part of me was
(34:57):
like, oh, I feel better nowBecause, yeah, I mean, I
discerned religious life veryheavily.
We don't need to get into thatstory right now.
But, yeah, I viewed it as I'mgoing to get on this conveyor
belt.
The narrow way is built out.
I just got to stay on the beltand the lady you got to create
(35:19):
and build the belt.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
I'm going to pray all these times a day.
Oh, I come to Mass when thebell rings.
I'm doing this work, I don'thave these distractions.
Speaker 3 (35:27):
And there are constant distractions or the
track gets ripped out or you gotto start over nonstop.
It's so much harder to remainfaithful to the end.
But the grace, and you can seeit in Venerable Pierre
Toussaint's life.
Those virtues were so developedand he's got a spot in St Pat's
(35:50):
Cathedral because of it.
I mean, they saw and recognizedthat.
And now here is a man, the onlyman in, with all of these other
priests and religious in thatplace, sacred place.
Speaker 2 (36:03):
All right, let's go to the last one for today, St
Matthew.
We talked about him a littlebit at the top.
Let's bring it back home thetax collector, the traitor.
If you're not familiar with howbad this is, I mean if you look
at whenever everybody'sgrumbling about Jesus and who
(36:25):
he's hanging out with Taxcollectors and sinners there's
the sinners.
Not just the sinners, right,the adulterers, every everybody
else.
They're all lumped into, throwninto sinners but these other
guys are so bad that doesn'teven begin to describe them, so
we're going to name themindividual.
The tax collectors.
(36:46):
Can you believe guys?
Special breed of terrible?
Yes, because they were thetraitors.
They were the jews working handin hand with the roman
government to levy incrediblyheavy taxes on the jews so not
(37:08):
only was it heavy from the notside, not only was that bad
enough.
the way they get paid is they.
If it says, oh, this guy'sgoing to owe 10, whatevers in
taxes, he goes, you know what?
I think you owe 12.
And then he keeps those two.
He's just going to add his bitto the top and now you pay it up
and they could add what theywanted.
(37:31):
So it wasn't like, oh know,I've been working a lot, maybe I
should.
I mean, it's gonna be at a halfnope, like free reign, because
what he says you pay is what youpay.
So a lot of tax collectors,right, they live this extortion
well, of course, and this islike a, in some ways, a selling
point of the job, because, thinkabout it, the Romans come to
(37:52):
you like, hey, everybody, yourfamily, your friends, all of
your own people, are going tohate you.
You want to come work forpeanuts?
Speaker 3 (38:03):
No, Do you want a ceiling-less income?
Speaker 2 (38:08):
Because that's what's waiting for you here.
So there's so many layers hereand if you see it's like well
yeah, maybe there's some levelof like protection or whatever
from the romans, but the maindriving force here is the money
ton of money that's why youbecome a tax collector and maybe
(38:31):
you don't.
Speaker 3 (38:31):
Maybe it appealed to people that didn't always have
the best relationship withfamily or friends anyway, and so
, yeah, it just was a job thatwas very disrespected, very
looked down upon.
If any of you have watched theChosen, it just does a really
good job showing this role andjust how frustrated faithful
(38:56):
Jews would be towards someonewho was a tax collector and the
challenges maybe that the earlydisciples probably had being
lumped in with a guy likeMatthew the gouger.
Okay, matthew leaves it behind.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
He leaves it behind.
And so, whatever image you wantto see of this, again, there's
that, that painting which is sogood, um of jesus.
He's just calling him right out.
Hey, you, I, I want you to comefollow me.
Or if you, if you're in withthe chosen uh and you want to
think about those images of youknow he's in with the chosen uh
and you want to think aboutthose images of you know he's in
(39:35):
his little tax stall and he'sright there and he calls him, he
calls him by name.
You come with me and we, Ithink we get a, we give a lot of
.
Sorry, I'm getting on by my,like matthew's so great box
right now.
Hop on, I've never reallythought of this before, but we
(39:57):
think a lot about James and John.
They're out fishing, comefollow me, they leave everything
and follow him.
They leave the other fishermen,they leave maybe their dad,
they leave the fish, they leaveeverything.
They drop it and come after him.
But matthew does the same thingand he's not dropping some
(40:20):
stinky fish and a you know wornout nets and a mediocre income,
exactly.
He's dropping it all like thisis what I think is so really
incredible.
I've never.
I've just thinking, maybe nowabout you know the imagery and
everything in the Chosen.
They do a great job with thisbecause he's there working.
Jesus calls him.
He's like huh, okay, okay, youknow, the Roman guy, guard him.
(40:43):
He's like what, what do you do?
Where are you going?
The other, the apostles, likethis guy.
Speaker 1 (40:48):
Really.
Speaker 2 (40:49):
Him, you know, and he just does it, and he leaves him
and he follows him.
That's what he was called to do.
This former way, this corrupted, incorrect way of understanding
this part of the world, thispart of creation of money, this
way of relating with otherpeople, this way of relating
(41:11):
with other people.
I'm calling you out of it intoa new way to understand this
thing money, this way ofrelating to people.
It's all going to be centeredon me.
Let's go do it.
Speaker 3 (41:24):
And I think that might be part of the church's
wisdom in having St Matthew beone of the patrons of personal
finances.
Not because he had a lot, Idon't think that's it.
I think it's because he was aguy enticed by the views and the
attitudes of the world, theinfluences at large in his
(41:46):
culture, and he fell into thelies and the traps that were set
before him around money.
You know Satan's constantlydoing this.
Satanaceous of Loyola tells usthat money and power are the
most common nets that the devilwill set for us to try to snare
us up and snag us up in.
Okay, he was in them, left themand then had a different
(42:09):
relationship with money andfollowed our Lord in that.
I think that's why he's apatron saint of finances, just
because of that example,embracing new attitudes and new
ideas and new mindsets around it, and I think he's relevant for
today.
I mean these prevailingattitudes.
All you got to do is log on toTikTok or Instagram, youtube.
(42:34):
I don't know, maybe myalgorithm is just a little bit
rigged, but it seems like everyother video is just somebody
being like.
I worked for 45 minutes and Imade $4 million, and now I'm on
a beach, don't you want to be me?
Pay $19.97.
Million dollars and now I'm ona beach, don't you want?
Speaker 2 (42:55):
to be me pay 1997 anyway, it's just.
Speaker 3 (42:58):
It's tiring, but people are still attracted to
the idea of just can I just havea lot of money and maybe I can
get it through slightly immoralor cloudy ethical means.
Speaker 2 (43:13):
Or really just could I get it through as little work
as possible?
Speaker 3 (43:17):
Yes, that too.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
Without the other side of the equation?
Can I circumvent?
Can I find the shortcut?
Because I want to avoid work,please?
Speaker 3 (43:25):
Yes, exactly, and there's nothing wrong.
A phrase that abounds in todayis passive income and working,
yeah, again, the smallest amountso that you can, but you can
still earn the most that can beacceptable for a disciple, as
long as you're using all of thatsaved time to kingdom, build
and to invest in the growth,your growth and the growth of
(43:47):
others and be at service Truly.
That that's the way that adisciple would handle that
scenario.
Anyway, don't want to get toofar off here, but ask for St
Matthew's intercession aroundmoney, and particularly that the
lies that prevail in ourculture today, that we're all
(44:08):
prone to being influenced bythat they would just be made
known, be clear, that our Lordwould point them out in our life
, if we have anything that ispulling on our heart or on our
wallet that is not of our Lord.
That St Matthew would pray forus that we would come, follow
our Lord, reject those things,set them down and begin doing
(44:32):
something new centered on JesusChrist.
Speaker 2 (44:36):
Yes, it doesn't matter what you've believed
about money, it doesn't matterwhat kind of troubles you've
gotten into in the past Lots offrivolous spending or mindless
spending, loading up on debt,cheating people out of stuff
stealing, it doesn't matter.
On debt, cheating people out ofstuff stealing, it doesn't
matter.
Jesus still wants you and hestill wants you to understand
(45:00):
and use money in a better,sanctified way.
So, yeah, pray to St Matthew,pray for the intercession of
Venerable Pierre and StCatherine and St Anthony of
Padua, and all Francis of Assisi, st Zalian, louis Martin.
Yes, they all have theseincredible interactions with
(45:22):
money that we can learn fromWhatever saint you know and love
whoever's you know, tapping youon the shoulder all the time.
Look into their life and seehow do they use money and what
type of a lesson, what type ofinspiration can I find in their
life for the way God might becalling me to use mine?
Amen, hallelujah.
(45:43):
Thank you for joining us onthis special episode of the
Catholic Money Show, the Seekpodcast.
Thank you so much.
We're a little bummed.
We won't see you at Seek 25,but we would love to see you on
social media.
At WalletWin you can find us.
(46:05):
Come on over to walletwincomand anywhere you listen to
podcasts, even on YouTube, justsearch the Catholic Money Show
and you'll find us.
We'd love to have you as ournext and newest subscriber.
Thank you very much for joiningus.
God bless you and until nexttime.
Bye for now.
Speaker 1 (46:22):
Thank you for joining us for this episode.
We hope you learned somethingand encountered Christ in some
way.
If you enjoy what we do, pleasesubscribe and share this
podcast with a friend.
This helps us reach more peoplewith and for Christ.
Until next time, this is JohnMichael Peace.
Welcome to the Seek Podcast, where we explore faith,
inspire hope and buildcommunity.
My name is John Michael Lucidoand I'm excited to invite you to
join us this season as we diveinto topics about the faith with
people from all over theCatholic world.
Thank you for listening totoday's episode.
Know that we are praying foryou.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Jesus invites us to come follow Him In our whole
lives.
How do we do it with our money?
Let's find out by looking atthe lives of the saints in this
episode of the Catholic MoneyShow.
Hello and welcome to thisspecial episode produced in
(00:43):
collaboration with Seek25 andthe Catholic Money Show.
We are here to talk about thattheme of Come Follow Me, the
theme of the conference thisyear.
And well, how do we do that inall of our lives?
We're going to be talking aboutthat one part our pockets.
But first let's talk a littlebit about Seek.
(01:04):
I love Seek.
I've been going to Seek sincebefore it was called Seek.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Yeah, it was called many a different thing in our
times.
I think our very first one wasway back in 2004, perhaps 2005,
somewhere around there, andwe've been nary to miss one of
these events, and only throughvery unique circumstances have
we ever missed yes, there mayhave been one.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
I was.
I was in the with one of ourchildren, yeah, and then there
was there was a year, though,where they did split up and you
went to two, so maybe that okay,so it kind of washed out yeah
it covers it a little bitbittersweet, though this year
yes, so we've just had a lotgoing on in our lives, including
the passing of my father, sohis name's Mike, pray for him.
(01:52):
That'd be great.
So that and the transitioning,you know, getting my mom all set
up to live on her own now after40, whatever years of marriage.
It's just a whole lot going on.
So we're passing on Seek thisyear but we are so excited about
it.
We said let's still do thepodcast, though.
(02:14):
Guys, Keep us on there.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
We can't not talk about this event, because this
really is an event that weattribute so much of our own
faith lives.
You know it's almost40-somethings now.
We really began to take ourfaith seriously in college when
we got involved with Focus, andthen, as we went to the
(02:36):
conferences, they were keyfactors in our own ongoing
conversion.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
And fantastic formation.
So, whether you're interestedin going head on over to the
website, follow their socialmedia handles, watch the videos
as they come out online, or orget access to the talks Uh,
there's usually just so manygold nuggets that happen at an
event like this.
The Holy spirit is very active,very present and tangible.
Um, and I I can't wait to seewhat's going to happen.
(03:05):
This year.
As Jonathan had said, the themeis Come Follow Me, this calling
of those earliest disciples tofollow Jesus.
And now this Come Follow Me hasechoed across the centuries as
our Lord continues to invitedisciples to follow him in the
unique facets and areas of theirlives, always a little bit
(03:29):
different than maybe somebodyelse, and I can't wait to dive
into exploring how does thatlook with our finances, with our
money?
But then the patron saint ofthis conference is also St Joan
of Arc, who I feel like ishaving a little bit of a moment.
She's having a little bit of amoment.
In the last couple of yearsI've heard some very compelling
talks given on her.
Her life is gosh.
(03:52):
It's bewilderinglyinspirational.
It really is, if you reallylook at the details, what Some
saints were talking to you.
You just went to the king andtold him how it was going to be.
You led an army, okay.
So I am sure a mixture betweenher intercession and her story,
(04:14):
combined with Come Follow Me,the Holy Spirit and all of the
different speakers that aregoing to be at this event, with,
of course, our Lord inEucharistic Adoration, it's got
all the components Absolutely.
The ultimate mic drop is in thesilence of adoration, and so
the combined elements there areripe for conversion and for
(04:39):
transformation, and I can't waitto see the fruits of it.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Yes, absolutely.
I don't think we've introducedourselves.
If you're new to us, you'remaybe finding this in the Seek
podcast feed.
Well, we are Jonathan andAmanda Texer.
We were missionaries with Focus, who puts on Seek, for about
nine years or so, involved asstudents.
Before that we were on-campusmissionaries and then each of us
(05:03):
involved in the very early daysof the Focus Digital Campus and
Focus Greek and the summerprojects all over the place in
Focus, and at least I had anumber of roles also at past
SEEK conferences.
So it's very happy.
We're happy to be backeverybody.
Thank you for having us.
So it's very happy, we're happyto be back.
(05:24):
Everybody, thank you for havingus.
And in that time, since we'veleft Focus staff, we have
started a company called WalletWin and we are hosts of the
weekly podcast, the CatholicMoney Show, and we talk all
about the things that you knowthe intersection of our faith
and our finances.
How do we put these two thingstogether to really use our money
as Catholics?
(05:45):
So we do that through thepodcast.
We wrote a book, we have ouronline course, the Catholic
Money Course, our online academy, all sorts of things, kids'
classes it's all there so thatyou can be the good steward that
you were made to be.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
And that really that mission, that call came from the
time that we were actually onstaff and it kind of like a
Mother Teresa moment.
She talked about having a callwithin a call.
You know she was already areligious sister teaching
education to school children andreceived a call to go serve in
religious life in a differentway to the poorest of the poor
on the streets and those whowere dying and who were sick,
(06:22):
and when we were on staff, wejust kept hearing this echo of.
You know, there are a lot ofvoices out there talking about
money and unpacking financesfrom a secular perspective or
from a Protestant Christianperspective, but it's not being
done from a Catholic perspectiveand the church has oh so much
to share on this topic and thelives of the saints.
(06:45):
It's really subtle, but theyooze with wisdom around money
and who's going to unpack this?
And so that's when we said, yes, lord, we'll follow you.
And in 2017 is when we uhstarted wallet win, and it has
been growing ever since, withgod leading the way.
So it's been an honor and aprivilege and I can't wait to
(07:06):
unpack a few of those saintstories in this episode.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
When I think about come follow me, I think about
that painting.
I believe it's a Caravaggio, ifI'm not mistaken.
But you know that one, matthew,is sitting there at the table
and of course they're all inwhatever time period that was
like the Renaissance orsomething.
(07:31):
They're all in those fancyclothes and stuff.
Okay, it's kind of all dark.
So, yeah, it probably isCaravaggio.
Jesus is there and he'spointing at him, he's pointing
to him and he's saying, ofcourse, come follow me.
He's calling the apostles, andthen there's Matthew.
He's sitting at the end of thetable.
He's like oh, me, me, you meanme.
(07:53):
So when I hear come follow,that's the image I think of.
So I think about Matthew.
He's there and this is maybehelpful because he's sitting
there at the table with all themoney you know collecting the
taxes, like he's sitting theredoing the accounting from his
work as a tax collector yeah,something like that.
Yeah, he's there and Jesus isright there, showing up in the
midst of it all, calling him outof it, just how he in our lives
(08:19):
certainly in mine.
He showed up.
I wasn't really expecting itand he says, hey, you come here,
follow me.
And he's called out of what heused to do, now to live a new
way.
And we'll get back to Matthewin a little bit.
But I want to continue downthis road of looking at these
(08:39):
saints to see how can we followJesus, how have some other folks
done it before, to inspire usand how we can live our lives.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
And I want to point this out right away at the
beginning of the episode.
Why is this important?
Why would we look at differentexamples of how the saints
interacted with, managed,thought about, interact and
handled money?
I think it's important becauseif you are in the United States
of America, for example,essentially there's only one
right track, and that's just getas rich as possible and do
(09:13):
whatever you want, whenever youwant, however you want, in
whatever quantity you want, andthat money is worshipped.
It is the end, all be all.
Essentially, if you really justthe end, all be all Essentially
, if you really just you don'thave to peel back layers that
deep to know that that isessentially the American way.
(09:34):
Just how can I get rich and doit quick, truly?
And I think sometimes, asdisciples, this can be a great
stumbling block for us, becausesome of us will be called to
great amounts of wealth by ourvocation or by being asked to
start a business or potentiallyinheriting it.
There could be a variety ofcircumstances where we end up
(09:56):
with a tremendous amount ofwealth, but that is not going to
be the call for everyone.
We see in the parable of thegood steward, even in scripture,
one was given five talents.
One was given three and one wasgiven one.
Was it Two and one?
Five?
Two and one?
And the five and the two?
They doubled it.
(10:16):
The one buried it in the ground.
He wept and gnashed his teeth.
But the other two, theystewarded it prudently and well
and they were able to gain areturn for their master and they
were praised, welcomed into the, to the feast, and they were
given a party.
Essentially, each of us aregoing to be given a different
amount of time, talent andtreasure.
Honestly, it's the Lord knowswhat is best for our salvation
(10:40):
and that is what he is going togive to us.
And that is what he is going togive to us, and if we reject
that, we're rejecting a part ofthe way he wants to make us holy
and to make us sanctified.
And so we do not all need to beon one path towards get as much
money as fast as I possibly can.
We need to be more attuned toasking our Lord what do you want
(11:03):
In his call towards us of comefollow me?
Part of that we need to ask himis how do you want the money to
look, lord?
And we're going to see in theexample of the lives of the
saints, that that is going tovary and that's okay.
For some it's going to mean alot of money, for some it's
going to be just a moderateamount, and for others it could
(11:25):
be a call to mean a lot of money, for some it's going to be just
a moderate amount, and forothers it could be a call to
taking a vow of poverty.
We just have to be docile andto listen to how he wants that
to look in our life and toreject what the world is saying
it should look.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
And it's going to be a variety of different ways.
So we picked out three saintsto look at today, or saints.
We threw a venerable in therefor a little fun, so let's check
it out.
The first one I want to talkabout.
She is a saint near and dear toour hearts here at Wallet Win,
Our patroness, St CatherineDrexel.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
Love her American born Fun fact about St Catherine
Drexel.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
She was born Catherine Drexel, catherine with
an E, and then, when she becamereligious, she became Catherine
with an A.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
I'm not sure.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
I don't know why.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
We should dig into the details there.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
That's so interesting , I wonder if it was a little
bit of just.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
It's a little more challenging or difficult, or
it's a visual swap.
Maybe she's real type A andneeded that.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
Or inviting that mortification of my name's going
to get spelled wrong probably.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
Or maybe it just symbolized in that swap.
I'm different.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
I'm a new person.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
yes, we should dig a little deeper into that Fun
little fact there about her, Ithought, you were going to share
a fun fact about how.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
Similar thing though St Francis Xavier Francis with
an I Francis Xavier CabriniFrancis with an E.
Anyway, this is not theCatholic spelling show.
This is the Catholic money show.
So let's talk about the money.
If you don't, if you aren'twell acquainted with old Katie,
(13:15):
she is a heck of a woman.
She was born into this beyondwealthy banking family in
Philadelphia.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
Yes, the Drexels were business partners with JP
Morgan.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Yes, as in JP Morgan Chase, the Drexel company
banking company was around untilabout the 70s.
Of course, generations andgenerations gone on.
They got caught up in some badaccounting stuff.
They're no longer in business,but even for a very long time
(13:52):
the Drexel name was involved inbanking and back then of course
they were probably one of thefew.
So they had considerable wealthIn today's money they'd be $400
million at least of just theirown personal wealth, monetary
wealth.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
And as Catherine grew up in this family, uh, her, her
mom died when she was veryyoung and then her dad ended up
remarried and then, um, theywent on to have more children as
well.
So she did have siblings, um,but, Catherine, she grew up with
these very virtuous parents whodidn't see money as just a way
to.
(14:32):
Of course, they had very lovelyand nice things and they they
went to Europe, probably forsome business deals, but you
know they're the nanny that theymade sure to hire, always took
them to daily mass and toshrines and, um, they used those
trips, as you know, that humanformation and spiritual
formation opportunities.
Her parents took the faith veryseriously.
They were paying the, the, therent or the mortgage for many
(14:54):
families in Philadelphia, and Ithink there was one or two days
a week at their home, but evenwhen they would go to their
vacation home out in the countrythat people would come to the
back door and she would watchher mother just give out money
to whoever for whatever it wasthe medicine that they needed or
the groceries they needed tobuy or the rent they needed to
pay.
And this is what theyprioritized was providing for
(15:18):
their family, of course, butthen they used money as a tool
and a vehicle to bless others,and they knew that it was, they
were fortunate to receive it andthey wanted to pass that gift
on to others who were not in thesame position.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
Yes, and that continued in Catherine's life as
she grew up.
Her father died and theinheritance is left to her and
her sister.
So she had two sisters split upequally three ways, and so
millions upon millions, hundredsof millions of dollars that
(15:52):
she's now in charge of.
And over this time her heart isbeginning to break Through her
spiritual director.
He did a lot of work and otherpriest friends did a lot of work
out west in those days, themissions, the missions out to
the American Indians and toAfrican Americans.
(16:14):
So she was just the Lord, justkind of grew her heart for in
particular those two groups offolks, and so she eventually
just kind of heard the call anddiscern that she was to help
these folks and she was tryingto figure out how to do it and
then again discern to I'm goingto become a religious sister,
(16:36):
I'm going to start a community.
These are the people we areserving.
This is our charism the welfare, the education of American
Indians and African Americans.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
Now on her way there.
Just not.
You know we're not going to getthis into all the other saints,
but we care a little bit moreabout Catherine Drexel and just
know all the ins and outs of herstories based on books we've
read.
Her spiritual director actuallychallenged her at first.
He was like you know you comefrom all this wealth.
I don't know A vow of poverty.
(17:08):
It just might be too extreme.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
I don't think you can cut it.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
It might be too much.
Maybe you're just called tohave a lot of wealth and to give
it away during your lifetime.
To grow it and give it awaythat's absolutely a path.
But she was faithful to goingto adoration and listening to
our Lord.
Sometimes our spiritualdirectors might mean well, but
we are the ones that areultimately going to hear what
(17:32):
God is asking.
And she just kept hearing.
No, I am to become a religious.
And I believe she spent timewith other communities and
ultimately discerned yes, shewas supposed to start her own
order and that money that sheinherited was to be the
lifeblood of getting this offthe ground and serving these
(17:52):
vulnerable populations gettingthis off the ground and serving
these vulnerable populations.
And so she went right intobuilding schools and providing
the resources that these peopleneeded to grow in their faith
and to be educated and to servein the communities.
So this is really what she gotstarted.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Yeah, she started dozens of schools.
What she got started?
Yeah, she started dozens ofschools.
She began Xavier Universitydown in New Orleans and did so
much work.
She was a little bit of aspitfire.
I believe the story issomewhere down in the South
there was some law that said,hey, black people, you got to
sit in the back pew.
And so they installed the pewssideways.
(18:36):
Uh, so they were all the backpew and everybody could just
scooch down to the side, to thefront.
That's great, I love it.
But she gave.
So all this, this inheritanceof this income of millions and
millions of dollars a year, shejust, you know, just gave to the
order and, uh, during herlifetime, the united states, it
(18:57):
started the income tax.
So now the amount available,because all this was income from
the businesses and everythingthat was coming in through
inheritance.
So now there's just so muchless money to use.
The Congress saw Miraculouslyenough.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
The United States government, believe it or not,
saw the good work that she wasdoing and passed a law that said
if you are giving away 90% ofyour income or more each year
for the last five years orsomething like that, you're good
.
We don't need any income taxfrom you.
So she I mean she was givingaway 100%.
You know she wasn't keeping,you know, a couple million in
(19:41):
her back pocket or anything, buteverybody knew that this law
was probably only ever going toaffect Catherine Drexel.
So they passed a law.
The government said you knowwhat?
We would rather not have acouple extra million dollars
every year, why don't?
Speaker 3 (20:00):
you do it.
Because you're doing such?
Speaker 2 (20:02):
effective work.
You're so incredible.
The work you're doing is sogreat.
Wouldn't that be something huh?
Speaker 3 (20:06):
Wouldn't that be something?
Speaker 2 (20:08):
Wow, so good.
So she's incredible.
She started all these schools,did all this good work and,
depending where you are in thecountry, she may have been in
your area, especially if you'reout east, but then of course she
did come west to establishthese schools, all of this.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
We have one just in our diocese about an hour and a
half north.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Yep, and I know back in Pennsylvania there's a
building I know, at least inCarlisle, that she was using as
a school, I think at one point.
Anyway, she's incredible and wesee in her story this great
wealth that the Lord asked herto handle, to steward well and
to put entirely to the use ofbuilding up the kingdom, of
(20:52):
saving souls and performingworks of mercy.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
But she herself was called to a vow of poverty.
Yes, so I want that distinctionto be made known.
She's kind of like a St Francisof a.
Sisi type they share, that somepeople will be called to
absolutely turn away from andrenounce any claim over finances
(21:16):
and they'll take the vow ofpoverty.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
trusting completely in divine providence, I would
say slight difference though,which is interesting because
francis came from some wealth.
Um, he's like nope, nope, I'mjust we're gonna beg for it all.
Now, saint catherine's orderthey got the income.
It was was like yes, okay,we've got this.
This is not for me.
I'm taking this, you know,funneling or whatever, to the
(21:39):
order.
And there we go.
Now, interestingly enough, herfather didn't want all these
dudes coming after his daughtersto try to marry them just for
the money.
So he wrote the inheritance insuch a way that they could only
continue down to theirdescendants, and so catherine
(22:01):
didn't have descendants.
Uh, in the you know thetraditional physical legal sense
.
So when she died, the tap gotturned off and the that order.
Now, you know, they rely onprovidence.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
They relate like everybody, you know they rely on
Providence, like everybody elsenow.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
Yeah, they rely on Providence.
They don't have the big moneycoming in the mail.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
And that was a discernment that she had.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (22:23):
Was do I legally get this changed?
Speaker 2 (22:25):
Yeah, because everybody thinks yeah there's
probably a case that she and thesisters could make that this is
the work that's going tocontinue on after me.
Blah, blah, blah, but they nope.
This is the way you know.
My dad set it up and our ourfather in heaven.
He will also provide for usafter her death.
Speaker 3 (22:51):
Beautifully.
She had two other sisters thatdid not become religious, but
they also handled money veryprudently, very wisely, very
generously in the kingdom.
So really there was just Ithink it's a, it's a testament
mostly to the the way theirparents managed money so well,
so virtuously.
Their children were juststudents of that and they saw
money handled um the way itought to be, and so they were
(23:13):
able to grow up and, even ifthey weren't taking vows of
poverty, able to live in anappropriate relationship with it
, which I think speaks volumes.
All right, so that's onevocation, right St Catherine
Drexel, the wealthy heiress whotakes a vow of poverty.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
Which was earth shattering at the time.
Newspapers all over the country, but even around the world,
covered this wild idea that thismulti-millionaire heiress would
give it all up to become a nun.
Incredible.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
As if she didn't find a bigger treasure.
That's what they really coulddo.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
It's like if Taylor Swift became a nun.
Speaker 3 (24:01):
Right, think of how crazy the world would go.
Everybody'd freak out, yeah,but that's you know, minus all
the love, drama and the songs.
Katherine was pursuing virtueher whole life.
But so it's kind of similar inthe wheelhouse, but but yes, it
would be that radicalfinancially speaking all right,
all right, let's talk aboutsomebody.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
Let's move on our next, and this is one we haven't
talked too much about, so I dida little more research on we've
been discussing him for a whilewe've known a little bits of
his story.
I've got a little bit more umagain.
We won't go into as much detailon everybody, uh, but this next
one.
So he's not a saint yet.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
In the canonization process.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
Yes, he is beyond servant of God.
He's got called up to the nextlevel right in the minors.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
Let's ask this guy for some miracles.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
He's incredible.
Yes, venerable Pierre Toussaint, so he's not a French guy, he
was American.
He's American.
He was born a slave in Haiti,hence the French name.
And then.
So in his life, his masters didteach him to read, or allow him
(25:09):
to learn how to read, and then,when the master's son went to
New York, he and a couple otherswent with to, you know, help
him, you know, to serve him, andall that.
In that time he one of his jobswasn't just, like you know,
clean this or whatever, but togo out and earn a living for the
(25:33):
family.
So he was apprenticed to ahairdresser and he eventually
became like one of the premierhairstylists in New York City.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
That's like premier hairstylist in the world.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
That's like hairstylist to the stars kind of
guy.
This is who right, I don'tthink they crossed paths or
anything.
This is who Catherine Drexelwould probably get to do her
hair, yeah, if she was in likethat level of uh of stuff.
And so so he's making quite abit of money doing this and he's
(26:07):
, you know, gave it to thefamily.
Um, the master died.
Of course, he's still a slave tothe family, but he sees that,
yes, this is an unfortunatesituation, that I'm in slavery,
not dignified or any of that,but in a weird way, like
accepting it, that he is here toserve this family.
(26:30):
The circumstances be as theymay, that is a job put before me
and, in Christ, I will acceptit.
So he just pours himself into.
He's taking care of the widow,all this stuff, and I mean he's
doing, he's earning the moneyfor the household and then when,
as she's dying, she, you know,frees him, gives him his freedom
, he continues to work.
(26:50):
So I mean that doesn't changehis status as a hairdresser.
So everybody's still coming tohim.
Still, him his freedom, hecontinues to work.
I mean that doesn't change hisstatus as a hairdresser.
So everybody's still coming tohim, still making piles of money
.
Now he's using the money to buythe freedom of other slaves.
He's using it to, you know,fund missions and religious
(27:13):
communities.
There's a group of sisters, ofblack sisters, in Baltimore.
He helps, you know, give them alot of money.
He helps raise and give a tonof money for St Patrick's
Cathedral Not the big one thatyou've probably been to, oh,
that other one.
The old St Pat's, which backthen was the brand new St Pat's
Beautiful church, though.
So go do it.
But he, I mean, he went todaily mass at St Pat's, which
back then was the brand new StPat's Beautiful church, though.
(27:35):
So go do it.
But he, I mean he went to dailymass at St Peter's in New York,
which you can still go to.
But this rich faith life justmade him want to use this skill
that he developed to earn allthis money to make a lot of good
things happen.
He eventually, you know, hemarried a lady to earn all this
(27:55):
money to make a lot of goodthings happen.
He, eventually, he married alady.
They never gave birth to kids,but they adopted at least one of
his orphaned nieces, theyhelped all sorts of other
orphans and charities, and allthat through their work and
their wealth considerable wealth.
And at one point he was gettinga little older.
And someone wealth,considerable, considerable
(28:15):
wealth.
And at one point he was gettinga little older.
And someone goes hey, pierre,um, do you ever think about
retiring?
I mean, just enjoy the moneyyou've made, man.
Speaker 3 (28:24):
Right.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Look at all you've done so far and look at kick
your feet up, man, relax, I'llbe cutting all that hair.
And he said to them.
He said, and he said to them.
He said I could retire, I haveenough money for me, but if I'm
not working I won't have enoughfor all the others.
So he saw his ability to workright, that that that god-given
(28:47):
like dignity of work, theability to see the fruits of his
labor not merely for himselfbut for others.
And so, again, he not called toa vow of poverty, not a priest,
not a religious total layman.
He is the only lay personburied in St Patrick's in New
(29:12):
York, the big St Patrick's, theone that you know about.
Speaker 3 (29:15):
He's under the altar there.
The only one Smack dab in themiddle With cardinals.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
All the cardinals, everybody With Fulton Sheen.
Speaker 3 (29:25):
He was doing their hair.
He's doing their hair.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
Yeah, but he's the only layperson in the cathedral
I've got goosebumps.
Speaker 3 (29:33):
He had a huge impact.
I've got goosebumps.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
He had a huge, I've got goosebumps thinking about
this.
Speaker 3 (29:37):
I mean he was.
He had this tremendous outsizedimpact in New York.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
City and he's.
I saw this.
There's a video the Archdiocesehave about this but somebody's
like leading a tour about him orsomething and he could have
been on the side, right, itlooks like they're kind of
filling in like this in theslots.
He's in the very middle, likethe last slot, the bottom slot
in the middle, and if you'reupstairs, this is the crypt
(30:01):
underneath the altar.
If you're up there and you'repeeking down the stairs, he's
the only name you can see.
He's the one that you can seefrom up top.
That's crazy, he's awesomePrime parking.
Yes, he's got the deluxe parkingpass.
Speaker 3 (30:20):
Yes, that's amazing.
He's a quite a story.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
So again, so not this huge inheritance he started
with nothing.
Negative when he was workinghis money was taken.
Yes, craziness yeah likestarting from beyond nothing.
Yes, way up to the top, did itall with love and then used this
(30:46):
incredible wealth not just toyou know get himself.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
I'm sure he had some nice stuff I'm sure he did, and
there's nothing wrong with that,but it wasn't his goal or focus
exactly, was always what can Ibe doing to help the church, to
help others to, to reallysteward this well?
Speaker 2 (31:04):
and so, yes, like he took seriously.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
Incredible come follow me he was very serious.
Oh yeah, he was covered in thedust of very few people could um
, you know, I could think of,like saint Josephine Bakhita too
, you know have slavery besomething that was a
transformative experience, insome way drawing you closer to
God.
I think that's very difficult,I think that would be very hard
(31:28):
or impossible for many people.
Only with God and his gracecould that actually be something
that could sanctify you andthat virtue that that built, and
that abandonment to our Lord.
He just continued to grow himand sanctify him and then, when
he had full possession of thoseresources, no one would have
probably judged the guy if hedid want to use most of it on
(31:48):
himself or use it to to, toreally lean into enjoying things
that he wasn't able to enjoypreviously.
But this was a disciple and soI'm sure he he did some of those
things, and in New York city, Imean, there's plenty of fun
things to do.
Our courtship.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
Do you think you ever went to a Yankees game or a
Dodgers game or something?
Speaker 3 (32:09):
Why wouldn't he have and but but wasn't again the
goal or the focus?
And when money becomes againlike what America oftentimes
will teach people directly orindirectly money is the end goal
, it's the end-all be-all, it'sthe purpose of work, it tends to
(32:30):
be the only thing.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
All these people were putting you down.
I mean quite literally, they'reslave work, it's that.
It it's tends to be the onlything people were putting you
down.
They, you know you were.
I mean quite literally, you,they're slave.
And then like, now it's yourtime to get yours.
Oh, yeah, to them and theechoes of our culture.
Speaker 3 (32:46):
you can just tell that through his life he said,
no, I, I I'm come, follow me.
I serve somebody who's beenspeaking a message for for
centuries, calling his, hispeople to follow him in these
contradictory ways that theworld can't understand, frankly,
but that bring you peace, thatbring you joy, that transform
(33:06):
you and the world around you.
And I would love to learn morejust about the tangible fruits
and the effects of venerablePierre Toussaint on New York
City and then how that'strickled out into the United
States and the world beyond him.
And I'm sure as his processgoes on and continues, god
willing, in our lifetime we'llget to unpack more of that story
(33:26):
and see him canonized a saint.
But what a beautiful example ofa layman who put money in its
right place and was not.
He was serving God, not mammon,and he was putting mammon at
the service of our Lord.
That can be the tricky spot forthe laity because it's easy to
get tangled up in suddenly, allof a sudden you're just
(33:49):
everything you're doing is justto get the next paycheck or to
get the next raise, withoutreally sometimes realizing it,
and really the eyes need to beon our Lord and all of these
things are at the service of himand his kingdom, and whatever
vocation he's calling us totaking care of those under our
charge and then transforming andbeing generous with our
community.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
Absolutely it's.
It can be so tricky because andthen maybe you realize, oh,
I've slipped into this thinkingor whatever.
And then maybe the firstreaction, I'm going to give it
all up, I'm going to go take avow of poverty, I'm going to go
to religious life or whatever.
It's really tricky, but it'swhat's asked of, I think, the
(34:30):
vast majority of us uh, to havethe money and to use it well.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
I have talked with some religious sisters before
and maybe not all of them feelthis way, uh, or priests, um you
know, or or brothers, but somesome of them have told me that
they think it takes more virtueto become a saint in laity than
it does in religious life or thepriesthood, and part of me was
(34:57):
like, oh, I feel better nowBecause, yeah, I mean, I
discerned religious life veryheavily.
We don't need to get into thatstory right now.
But, yeah, I viewed it as I'mgoing to get on this conveyor
belt.
The narrow way is built out.
I just got to stay on the beltand the lady you got to create
(35:19):
and build the belt.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
I'm going to pray all these times a day.
Oh, I come to Mass when thebell rings.
I'm doing this work, I don'thave these distractions.
Speaker 3 (35:27):
And there are constant distractions or the
track gets ripped out or you gotto start over nonstop.
It's so much harder to remainfaithful to the end.
But the grace, and you can seeit in Venerable Pierre
Toussaint's life.
Those virtues were so developedand he's got a spot in St Pat's
(35:50):
Cathedral because of it.
I mean, they saw and recognizedthat.
And now here is a man, the onlyman in, with all of these other
priests and religious in thatplace, sacred place.
Speaker 2 (36:03):
All right, let's go to the last one for today, St
Matthew.
We talked about him a littlebit at the top.
Let's bring it back home thetax collector, the traitor.
If you're not familiar with howbad this is, I mean if you look
at whenever everybody'sgrumbling about Jesus and who
(36:25):
he's hanging out with Taxcollectors and sinners there's
the sinners.
Not just the sinners, right,the adulterers, every everybody
else.
They're all lumped into, throwninto sinners but these other
guys are so bad that doesn'teven begin to describe them, so
we're going to name themindividual.
The tax collectors.
(36:46):
Can you believe guys?
Special breed of terrible?
Yes, because they were thetraitors.
They were the jews working handin hand with the roman
government to levy incrediblyheavy taxes on the jews so not
(37:08):
only was it heavy from the notside, not only was that bad
enough.
the way they get paid is they.
If it says, oh, this guy'sgoing to owe 10, whatevers in
taxes, he goes, you know what?
I think you owe 12.
And then he keeps those two.
He's just going to add his bitto the top and now you pay it up
and they could add what theywanted.
(37:31):
So it wasn't like, oh know,I've been working a lot, maybe I
should.
I mean, it's gonna be at a halfnope, like free reign, because
what he says you pay is what youpay.
So a lot of tax collectors,right, they live this extortion
well, of course, and this islike a, in some ways, a selling
point of the job, because, thinkabout it, the Romans come to
(37:52):
you like, hey, everybody, yourfamily, your friends, all of
your own people, are going tohate you.
You want to come work forpeanuts?
Speaker 3 (38:03):
No, Do you want a ceiling-less income?
Speaker 2 (38:08):
Because that's what's waiting for you here.
So there's so many layers hereand if you see it's like well
yeah, maybe there's some levelof like protection or whatever
from the romans, but the maindriving force here is the money
ton of money that's why youbecome a tax collector and maybe
(38:31):
you don't.
Speaker 3 (38:31):
Maybe it appealed to people that didn't always have
the best relationship withfamily or friends anyway, and so
, yeah, it just was a job thatwas very disrespected, very
looked down upon.
If any of you have watched theChosen, it just does a really
good job showing this role andjust how frustrated faithful
(38:56):
Jews would be towards someonewho was a tax collector and the
challenges maybe that the earlydisciples probably had being
lumped in with a guy likeMatthew the gouger.
Okay, matthew leaves it behind.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
He leaves it behind.
And so, whatever image you wantto see of this, again, there's
that, that painting which is sogood, um of jesus.
He's just calling him right out.
Hey, you, I, I want you to comefollow me.
Or if you, if you're in withthe chosen uh and you want to
think about those images of youknow he's in with the chosen uh
and you want to think aboutthose images of you know he's in
(39:35):
his little tax stall and he'sright there and he calls him, he
calls him by name.
You come with me and we, Ithink we get a, we give a lot of
.
Sorry, I'm getting on by my,like matthew's so great box
right now.
Hop on, I've never reallythought of this before, but we
(39:57):
think a lot about James and John.
They're out fishing, comefollow me, they leave everything
and follow him.
They leave the other fishermen,they leave maybe their dad,
they leave the fish, they leaveeverything.
They drop it and come after him.
But matthew does the same thingand he's not dropping some
(40:20):
stinky fish and a you know wornout nets and a mediocre income,
exactly.
He's dropping it all like thisis what I think is so really
incredible.
I've never.
I've just thinking, maybe nowabout you know the imagery and
everything in the Chosen.
They do a great job with thisbecause he's there working.
Jesus calls him.
He's like huh, okay, okay, youknow, the Roman guy, guard him.
(40:43):
He's like what, what do you do?
Where are you going?
The other, the apostles, likethis guy.
Speaker 1 (40:48):
Really.
Speaker 2 (40:49):
Him, you know, and he just does it, and he leaves him
and he follows him.
That's what he was called to do.
This former way, this corrupted, incorrect way of understanding
this part of the world, thispart of creation of money, this
way of relating with otherpeople, this way of relating
(41:11):
with other people.
I'm calling you out of it intoa new way to understand this
thing money, this way ofrelating to people.
It's all going to be centeredon me.
Let's go do it.
Speaker 3 (41:24):
And I think that might be part of the church's
wisdom in having St Matthew beone of the patrons of personal
finances.
Not because he had a lot, Idon't think that's it.
I think it's because he was aguy enticed by the views and the
attitudes of the world, theinfluences at large in his
(41:46):
culture, and he fell into thelies and the traps that were set
before him around money.
You know Satan's constantlydoing this.
Satanaceous of Loyola tells usthat money and power are the
most common nets that the devilwill set for us to try to snare
us up and snag us up in.
Okay, he was in them, left themand then had a different
(42:09):
relationship with money andfollowed our Lord in that.
I think that's why he's apatron saint of finances, just
because of that example,embracing new attitudes and new
ideas and new mindsets around it, and I think he's relevant for
today.
I mean these prevailingattitudes.
All you got to do is log on toTikTok or Instagram, youtube.
(42:34):
I don't know, maybe myalgorithm is just a little bit
rigged, but it seems like everyother video is just somebody
being like.
I worked for 45 minutes and Imade $4 million, and now I'm on
a beach, don't you want to be me?
Pay $19.97.
Million dollars and now I'm ona beach, don't you want?
Speaker 2 (42:55):
to be me pay 1997 anyway, it's just.
Speaker 3 (42:58):
It's tiring, but people are still attracted to
the idea of just can I just havea lot of money and maybe I can
get it through slightly immoralor cloudy ethical means.
Speaker 2 (43:13):
Or really just could I get it through as little work
as possible?
Speaker 3 (43:17):
Yes, that too.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
Without the other side of the equation?
Can I circumvent?
Can I find the shortcut?
Because I want to avoid work,please?
Speaker 3 (43:25):
Yes, exactly, and there's nothing wrong.
A phrase that abounds in todayis passive income and working,
yeah, again, the smallest amountso that you can, but you can
still earn the most that can beacceptable for a disciple, as
long as you're using all of thatsaved time to kingdom, build
and to invest in the growth,your growth and the growth of
(43:47):
others and be at service Truly.
That that's the way that adisciple would handle that
scenario.
Anyway, don't want to get toofar off here, but ask for St
Matthew's intercession aroundmoney, and particularly that the
lies that prevail in ourculture today, that we're all
(44:08):
prone to being influenced bythat they would just be made
known, be clear, that our Lordwould point them out in our life
, if we have anything that ispulling on our heart or on our
wallet that is not of our Lord.
That St Matthew would pray forus that we would come, follow
our Lord, reject those things,set them down and begin doing
(44:32):
something new centered on JesusChrist.
Speaker 2 (44:36):
Yes, it doesn't matter what you've believed
about money, it doesn't matterwhat kind of troubles you've
gotten into in the past Lots offrivolous spending or mindless
spending, loading up on debt,cheating people out of stuff
stealing, it doesn't matter.
On debt, cheating people out ofstuff stealing, it doesn't
matter.
Jesus still wants you and hestill wants you to understand
(45:00):
and use money in a better,sanctified way.
So, yeah, pray to St Matthew,pray for the intercession of
Venerable Pierre and StCatherine and St Anthony of
Padua, and all Francis of Assisi, st Zalian, louis Martin.
Yes, they all have theseincredible interactions with
(45:22):
money that we can learn fromWhatever saint you know and love
whoever's you know, tapping youon the shoulder all the time.
Look into their life and seehow do they use money and what
type of a lesson, what type ofinspiration can I find in their
life for the way God might becalling me to use mine?
Amen, hallelujah.
(45:43):
Thank you for joining us onthis special episode of the
Catholic Money Show, the Seekpodcast.
Thank you so much.
We're a little bummed.
We won't see you at Seek 25,but we would love to see you on
social media.
At WalletWin you can find us.
(46:05):
Come on over to walletwincomand anywhere you listen to
podcasts, even on YouTube, justsearch the Catholic Money Show
and you'll find us.
We'd love to have you as ournext and newest subscriber.
Thank you very much for joiningus.
God bless you and until nexttime.
Bye for now.
Speaker 1 (46:22):
Thank you for joining us for this episode.
We hope you learned somethingand encountered Christ in some
way.
If you enjoy what we do, pleasesubscribe and share this
podcast with a friend.
This helps us reach more peoplewith and for Christ.
Until next time, this is JohnMichael Peace.
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