February 6, 2025 • 44 mins
Explore the transformative power of vulnerability in leadership with us in this episode recorded at SEEK in Salt Lake City. Drawing from the rich tapestry of Byzantine traditions and spiritual practices, we delve into how embracing vulnerability can enhance your leadership effectiveness and foster deeper connections.
We examine the profound stories of Christ’s crucifixion and baptism, which illustrate the immense courage and humility essential for true leadership. By sharing personal anecdotes and reflections, we uncover how acknowledging our strengths and weaknesses can build trust and foster genuine relationships within our communities.
Check out SEEK Replay here: https://seekreplay.com/welcome
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to the Seek 25 podcast, featuring some of
our favorite podcasters recordedlive at the Max Studios podcast
stage during Seek 25 in SaltLake City.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
All right in the name of the Father, the Son and the
Holy Spirit.
Amen.
Thank you, lord, for this time.
Thank you for our faith, forour baptisms, thank you for
Mother and my vocations.
Thank you for this podcast,lord, and all of our dear
listeners.
Thank you for our team thatallows it to happen.
Lord, please soften andstrengthen our hearts to say and
(00:45):
to hear and to love only whatis your will.
And if we say anything, lord,that is not of your will, please
strike it from our mouths andfrom the hearts and the minds of
those who listen.
Please, lord, send your spiritto our dear listeners that they
may receive and hear with yourears and may grow closer to you
through our words and throughyour ministry.
O Lord, lord, please blessespecially this episode, bless
(01:06):
this technology, bless ourconversation as we pray.
Heavenly King.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Comforter, Spirit of Truth, everywhere present and
filling all things, treasury ofblessings and giver of life come
and dwell within us, cleanse usof all stain and save our souls
, o gracious one.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
In the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy
Spirit.
Amen.
Glory to Jesus Christ.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Glory to him forever.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Hello Mother.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
Hi Father.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Hello, sea of listeners.
Thank you guys.
This is, I think, the biggestwe've gotten my gosh.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Someone was on Pints with Aquinas a lot and helped
our listenership.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
Was that you?
Speaker 2 (01:48):
No, not us a lot and helped our listenership.
Was that you?
No, not at all.
Well, thank you all for comingout.
We appreciate it immensely.
Hopefully we'll have some goodthings to say as you can listen,
and then at the end we're goingto try to do a Q&A as well.
Beth, if you could raise yourhand please.
We have a wonderful artistfriend named Olivia and she
designed our stickers this year,and Beth is walking around and
(02:10):
handing out stickers for Seek2025.
If anybody here wants thosestickers, I also want to
publicly thank Olivia, theartist, for making me taller
than Joan of Arc, because thatprobably wasn't true in real
life, although she's just largerthan life, but anyway, the
sticker has me taller than Joanof Arc, so I appreciate that.
All right, sikh's beenwonderful so far.
(02:31):
Thank you for those of you whojoined us for Royal Hours
earlier.
If you follow us on Instagram,we will do some Byzantine
prayers and it was great at thisevent to do some Byzantine
prayers as we prepare for thebaptism of our Lord in the
Byzantine church.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
My favorite.
I hope that no one's offendedthat I had a favorite at Royal
Hours, but my favorite attendeewas most certainly Anastasia,
who I saw her earlier.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
There she is.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
So she was a champ for the whole of Royal Hours and
doing lots of gymnastics on thefloor throughout, and it was
really delightful.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
We didn't have any candles or fire, which we
Byzantines really like ourcandles and incense.
We had none of that, and so Iwas looking at her head and she
was running around while I waspraying the red-haired little
girl.
I was praying the gospel.
I was like, oh, this is ourlittle flaming baby running
around.
I know that's not how you saythat, but that was on my mind,
not what that.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
that's not how you say that, but that was on my
mind.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Ignore me, all right.
So, mother, I'm putting myglasses at a time so I can read.
I want to thank yeah they'recute.
I like your glasses.
I want to start off, no.
I'm taking them off then I meanmanly, I want to thank you.
The topic we want to do todayis on vulnerability and
leadership, and this isn't justsomething I'm making up or we're
(03:48):
making up.
I actually have three examplesfrom our beautiful Byzantine
traditions and liturgies abouthow vulnerability works,
especially coming from a leader.
So there's we hear all the timeif you never watched Brene
Brown's TED Talk, please go dothat on vulnerability, a lot of
times we talk aboutvulnerability among peers I'm
(04:09):
going to read something in amoment about that but there's
the vulnerability when it comesto a leader.
This is the vulnerability ofparents for their children in
front of their children, ofpriests and nuns, hegumenas,
hegemons, leaders of communities.
What does it mean to bevulnerable in front of them?
And so we're going to use ourliturgical texts as kind of an
(04:30):
example of that.
But I want to start with aquick story.
I was sitting and I was makingfun of myself yesterday and as I
was making fun of myself, I wasmaking fun of myself for always
forgetting things and if youguys are common listeners, you
know that I forget things allthe time and I can make fun of
myself in front of MotherNatalia, and I was making fun of
(04:50):
myself in front of Beth, andthey were both laughing, and the
laughing was laughing with me,not laughing at me, and that may
seem so odd, but I thought Icould be vulnerable in front of
you, of course, and I could bevulnerable in front of Beth with
things that I don't like aboutmyself.
I don't like the fact that Iforget everything.
Now, there are also thingssometimes when I am vulnerable
(05:14):
because I need to changesomething, and then there's not
really a laughing matter.
I'm saying look, here's aweakness I have, even though I'm
your spiritual father.
Here's a weakness I have andthis I want to change.
Pray for me, please.
But there are other things thatI can't change.
I can't change the way mymemory works, and so when I can
be vulnerable in that waybecause there are situations
(05:35):
where, to use this example, Imay share something about I
forget everything Someone canabsolutely use that against me.
Someone could use it as a weapon.
Someone could turn it againstme.
Someone could write my bishopand say, please, send us someone
else, like, send us a priestthat actually remembers things.
This is utterly ridiculous,bishop, like they could use it
as a weapon, of course, and Ijust want to appreciate that you
(05:57):
don't.
Thank you, beth as well.
Thank you, bree and Greg andour entire team for not using
that against me.
I appreciate that immensely.
You want to make fun of me realquick before I read something.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
No.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
What do you want me to make fun of you for?
Speaker 2 (06:14):
I was giving you an opportunity while I looked at my
first reading.
No, all right, I apologize.
I'm going to do some readingand then I'm going to ask you,
of course, for feedback, mother.
And then I'm going to ask you,of course, for feedback, mother,
but these prayers in ourliturgy and in this case I'm
reading something from my oldfraternity so how many of you
listen to the Catholic Stuff youShould Know podcast, there we
(06:37):
go.
All right, I was on thatpodcast for years.
That was my first podcast.
As you know, we were a communityof priests.
I was the only Byzantine one,it was all Romans and it was
amazing To have community, andpriesthood allows for an immense
vulnerability that I think mostpriests do not understand and
don't really have the capacityto do that.
So I want to read you oneparagraph from our rule of life,
(06:58):
just to kind of get it kickedoff.
This was written by the priestin my fraternity.
By his wounds we were healed.
Though he knew what was in men,the incarnate word made
vulnerable the heart of God, asperfect love casts out fear.
The one who contemplates thetransfigured wounds of Christ
(07:20):
desires never again to say I wasnaked, so I hid myself,
captivated by the beauty ofdivine vulnerability, the
companion, the priest in thiscommunity, responds with courage
, rendering vulnerable his ownopaque interiority, that, at the
risk of rejection, he gains thepossibility of communion.
(07:41):
Vulnerability with Christ inthe presence of his brothers, is
the hallmark of the companion'scommon life.
So this touches on the realmeaning of vulnerability, which
is, you mentioned, a betterdefinition than I had earlier.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
Well, etymologically it means able to be wounded.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Able to be wounded.
So when we're vulnerable, we'reliterally leading with the
ability to be wounded.
I'm sharing something with youand you could use this as a
weapon.
You could.
And vulnerability means, in asense I trust you enough that
you will not use this as aweapon, that you will actually
treasure it.
It'll be something that allowsyou to love me better.
(08:21):
And so what?
The reason I started off withthat was because any
vulnerability that comes inleadership has to be rooted in
Christ's own vulnerability, aswe've been.
By his wounds.
We were healed, and there wassomething about the
vulnerability of Adam and Evethat they in a sense the devil
abused them.
(08:42):
They abused themselves and theyhid themselves, and because
they were trying to protectsomething by hiding that before
that they're being naked withoutshame, that that vulnerability
was something so beautiful thatwhen that was abused by sin,
then all of a sudden they had tohide themselves.
(09:03):
And I like how it says in thatpart of the rule never again
will I say I was naked and I wasshameful and I was vulnerable
so I hid myself, but rather I'mvulnerable so I show myself to
Christ, and that's, of course,what it says.
Christ, of course, is theleader.
He is the king, he is theprince of heaven.
So there's, he was vulnerable,he allowed himself to be wounded
(09:25):
by us and by sin, and so thatis the example, that is the
primary example of any leaderwhen they want to find what it
means to be vulnerable to theirflock, to those who they
actually have authority over.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
And obviously this happens like.
The clearest example of this isthe crucifixion.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
In allowing himself to be yeah, to be wounded.
In that sense, what is this?
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Water.
Oh, and while we were prayingtoday, it's really whiskey, I'm
just kidding, it's water.
I wish when we were prayingtoday it dawned on me we were
praying royal hours earlier forTheophany.
And Theophany is ourcelebration, our commemoration
of Christ's baptism, and itactually said in our prayers I'm
(10:11):
sure you noticed it said thatwho are we to see?
Christ naked in the river?
All of our iconography showshim being baptized and partly
clothed.
But just like our icons right,he was probably naked being
baptized.
There was a sign.
A very real sign of this is thenew Adam.
Adam was naked without shame.
(10:31):
Christ, when he was beingbaptized, was naked without
shame.
Christ on the cross was nakedwithout shame, and this is the
example that any of us in anyform of leadership whether
that's parents again, bosses,anybody who looks to us for any
sort of leadership as a shepherdneeds to find that ability to
be properly vulnerable.
(10:54):
All right, I want to read.
I'm going to start with myfavorite.
So this again I want to sharethings from our liturgical life
so we're not just kind ofriffing and making stuff up.
But this is a beautiful prayer,so this is actually what it
says in the book.
I do not listen to the book.
I'm sorry, I know I do what Iwant in this, but it says During
(11:17):
this litany the priest praysthe following prayer silently If
there is no deacon.
The priest says it privatelybefore the service of baptism.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
So this is not supposed to be said out loud,
but Fr Michael Bachman is aboverubrics.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
I am way below rubrics, too far below rubrics,
but I want to share this becauseif you've been to a Byzantine
baptism, you probably did nothear this, and I apologize.
I cannot remain unemotionalduring baptisms and this is one
of my favorite parts, and I'vedone probably 200 baptisms in my
(11:52):
life, if not more, and I'mprobably going to cry.
I apologize, try to get throughme.
I'll hand it to you, mother,and you can finish reading it,
if I don't Wait.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
Can we first just can we pause there?
I want to know why you'reapologizing for crying, like
you're doing an episode aboutthe importance of vulnerability
in leadership, and then youapologize for crying.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Well, thank you, I want you to be able to
understand it and hear it, and Iwant to make sure it's clear,
like if I could just have AIread it and I could just cry
while it's being read.
That'd be easier, but okay, sothis is what the priest says Do
you want me to read it, but okay.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
So this is what the priest says.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Do you want me to read?
It Is that helpful.
I'm not a priest.
I'll read it just because I'm apriest.
So this is what the priest says, and this is what he says right
before the baptism.
So, basically, he's about topass on and allow this child or
the adult to die to their sinand death and arise with Christ.
(12:44):
And God asked him to be the onewho did this.
And so the priest has to standwith immense humility.
In the Byzantine church, in theliturgy, whenever any priest is
about to touch the Eucharistwith his bare hands, you will
always see him do three bows ohGod, be merciful to me, a sinner
.
Oh God, be merciful to me, asinner.
(13:05):
Oh God, be merciful to me, asinner.
Oh God, be merciful to me, asinner Anytime he's about to
touch the Eucharist.
So we stand with a fear of Godbefore we touch the Eucharist
and a deacon and a priest,because in the Byzantine church
you would never touch theEucharist with your hands unless
you're a deacon or a priest.
And so the first time a deaconis given the Eucharist, it's put
(13:27):
in his hand and he rests hishand on the altar.
Like it's too heavy, Like Ican't even support this, I rest
it on the altar.
And then a priest when he alsoreceives it for the first time
in the hand.
Again, he rests it on the altar.
I rest it on the altar as soonas I put it in my hand, Like
it's just a reminder that thishas a heft to it, a weight to it
(13:48):
.
And speaking of vulnerability,my gosh, like the vulnerability
of God.
To decide that Christ's body,blood, soul and divinity is
going to rest in my hand isincredible.
You know, the fact that wereceive him is incredible, Like
it's just amazing vulnerability.
I'll stop, Okay.
This is what the church says.
This is what the priest says.
Oh, compassionate and mercifulGod, you alone search the heart
(14:10):
and soul.
You know their secrets.
There is nothing hidden fromyou.
All things are naked andexposed to your sight.
Since you know everything aboutme, do not loathe me or turn
your face away from me, butrather, at this time, overlook
my offenses, as you overlook thesins of all when they repent.
Wash away the filth of my bodyand soul and make all my being
(14:34):
holy and perfect by your unseenpower and your spiritual right
hand.
That, while I proclaim freedomand I offer it to others by the
perfect faith of yourunspeakable love for mankind, I
myself may not be found anabandoned slave of sin.
O Master, you alone are goodand you love mankind.
Do not humiliate me, but sendupon me the power from on high
(14:58):
and strengthen me for theministry of this great and
heavenly mystery.
Form Christ in him, who nowseeks to be born again through
my humble ministry.
Build him firmly upon thefoundation of your apostles and
prophets.
Do not destroy him, but planthim as a planting of truth in
your holy Catholic and apostolicchurch.
That he may not be rooted out,that he grows in the practice of
(15:19):
faith.
Your all holy name of theFather and of the Son and of the
Holy Spirit may be glorified inhim, now and ever and forever.
Amen.
Like I kind of understand whythey would want you to say that
silently, right, I mean thepriest has to stand there saying
I'm an abandoned, do not allowme to be abandoned slave of sin.
(15:39):
I am a slave of sin, but do notabandon me.
And then it says build up thisperson about to be baptized on
the firm foundation of faith.
Right, this is the foundationof the altar where we rest our
hand.
This is the foundation of thefaith where this also this
person who was a slave of sin,whether they were an infant or
an adult.
In a sense, now is receiving,of course, your gift, oh Lord,
(16:03):
of your own vulnerability thatallows them to enter into your
own body and therefore enterinto the heavenly reality.
Speaker 3 (16:09):
This is such a beautiful prayer against
clericalism, right, Like it'snot.
This idea of the man who is thepriest is better than the rest
of us, is more deserving of thisrole, or something like that.
It's like there's thisproclamation of your own
(16:31):
sinfulness and it reminds me ofare you going to talk about is
one of the prayers during theliturgy, like the priest's
prayer before receivingcommunion.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
Oh, maybe I'm making this up, what?
Speaker 2 (16:46):
are you thinking of?
Speaker 3 (16:48):
Well, just like that, the priest acknowledges his own
sinfulness at the anaphora.
Do you know what I'm talkingabout?
Speaker 2 (16:54):
I think so.
I think I have that ready to go.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
Okay great, that's just what it reminds me of.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Yeah, there's a.
And see, this is really funny,because I just acted very
clerically when I said I'm goingto read it out loud just
because I want to, if the booksays, don't do it, I shouldn't
do it.
But it's like there's somethingabout.
Of course, when I read itprivately, as the book says,
there's something beautiful thatI need to be reminded of this
(17:20):
and I guess it possibly could bedistracting to people, because
in that moment, the priest isjust talking to God and it is a
private thing.
It could, of course, becomeshowy, like I'm just reading it
aloud on a podcast.
It could become showy, but whenit's actually being prayed at
baptism it's not.
It's like I'm talking to God,I'm doing it alone, alone, which
, of course, is beautiful.
And you're saying don't let mebe an obstacle, don't let my sin
(17:42):
be an obstacle, and yeah, Ithink I think that's one thing
that any priest, anybody who'sfollowing rubrics, needs to
understand is that if we go offscript, we can absolutely become
an obstacle, like to what Godis trying to do in this, in this
liturgy itself.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
Let me read this.
This may be what you weretalking about.
So this is right before theanaphora, right before the
consecration in the liturgy ofSt Basil the Great, who we
celebrated two days ago, and Ithink you Roman Catholics
celebrated it when Basil theGreat, one day ago, yesterday.
So this is St Basil the Great.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
Shout out to Brother Basil, whose feast day it was.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
Happy feast day, brother, all right.
So this is what the priest says, and in our, in our liturgy, he
does say this out loud againvulnerability and leadership.
God and mercy and kindness, youhave visited our lowliness.
You have appointed us, yourhumble, sinful and unworthy
servants, to minister at yourholy altar in the presence of
your holy glory, through thepower of your Holy Spirit,
(18:38):
strengthen us in this serviceand permit us to open our mouth
and call down the grace of yourHoly Spirit upon the gifts about
to be offered.
That, being ever protected byyour power, we may give glory to
you, father, son and HolySpirit, now and ever and forever
.
Amen, again, that just struck mejust now.
Being protected by your power,because there is something like
(18:59):
Noah, right In his vulnerabilityafter getting drunk, in his
weakness, he becomes vulnerableand that's taken advantage of by
one of his sons, and hisvulnerability is covered,
protected by his other sons,thank God.
So there's something we'resaying in this liturgy we are
about to be vulnerable becausethat's what we've decided to do
as priests and as celebrants.
(19:19):
But so, lord, please protect usIn your vulnerability.
Protect us and let thisvulnerability not be abused or
used as a weapon.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
Yeah, I want to say a couple of things that came to
mind as you were speaking, but Idon't know if any of them are
related to what you were doingor talking about.
So great?
Uh, because the first one, onethat came to mind just as you
were speaking right now, is thethe CS Lewis quote, um, from the
(19:52):
four loves.
Uh, actually, if, um, I don'tknow if this is allowed.
If anyone can like someone,sandy, I'll just put this can
you look up, um, cs lewis, thefour loves to love at all is to
be vulnerable, and I'm gonnaread that out loud um, there's a
quote that starts with to loveat all is to be vulnerable.
If I were mother petra, I wouldbe able to just quote this
whole thing off the top of myhead, but I am not mother.
(20:14):
Um, but that.
That quote came to mind, whichthen is just um, oh, thank you,
sandy.
Okay, so the four loves is oneof my favorite books and I'll
put this out there.
If any of you listen to audiobooks, I'm only listening to, um
(20:37):
, my second audio book ever.
Right now, the first audio bookthat I'm listening to is Counts
of Monte Cristo with BrotherBasil.
But, oh, things are happening,everything's fine, it's fine.
But I just started listening tothe Four Loves on Spotify and
it's recorded in CS Lewis'svoice.
Did you people know that thisexisted?
(20:58):
There's a recording of CS Lewisreading the Four Loves, and
it's on Spotify, but this is oneof my favorite quotes from it.
He says to love at all is to bevulnerable.
Love anything and your heartwill be wrung and possibly
broken.
If you want to make sure ofkeeping it intact, you must give
(21:19):
it to no one, not even ananimal.
Wrap it carefully round withhobbies and little luxuries,
avoid all entanglements.
Lock it up safe in the casketor coffin of your selfishness.
But in that casket, safe, dark,motionless, airless.
It will change, it will not bebroken, it will become
(21:43):
unbreakable, impenetrable,irredeemable.
To love is to be vulnerable andI I love that quote because to
love, um, this vulnerabilitythat you're talking about, like
this, the ability to be wounded,as we were talking about
(22:04):
etymologically, that's what itmeans, um, able to be wounded,
and um, you know, one of thethings that we were talking
about yesterday is one of thethings that Father Boniface said
in his talk yesterday was aboutthe healing power of love and
(22:26):
the healing power ofvulnerability, and I think
that's because you know this,like the father is Porphyrius.
St Porphyrius talks about beingwounded by love.
John of the Cross talks aboutbeing wounded by love, and it's
love talks about being woundedby love, and it's love that
heals us.
And so if we're not open tothis, if we're not open to the
wounding by love, if we're notopen to being wounded, period,
(22:51):
then we're not going to behealed and we're going to just
be like unbreakable but alsounhealable.
And you know, I was thinking asyou were talking about the
royal hours in theophany.
The line that I thought you weregoing to mention was there was
a line in which we talked abouthow John the Baptist gave in,
(23:13):
and we were talking about thatyesterday.
That's one of my, one of thelines from the scripture that
always pierces me about thebaptism of the Lord is John the
Baptist is protesting and he'slike I'm not worthy of baptizing
you, why are you here?
And then in one translation itsays he gave in.
And I think we get sooverwhelmed by life.
(23:40):
There's so much pressure,there's so much pressure,
there's so much stress thatwe're always going to give in
eventually and we can eithergive in to the devil or we can
give in to the Lord.
And in this particular case,john the Baptist giving in and
(24:05):
being vulnerable in that way,allowing himself to be wounded
by love of the Lord is.
It's a giving in and it's thevulnerability of, of leadership
(24:25):
that we're talking about,because this is the.
The greatest struggle, I think,for me and for for priests who
are, who are struggling to alsohave humility while also leading
, is like.
This is the temptation of I'mnot, I'm not worthy to to do a
podcast, I'm not worthy to givehomilies, I'm not worthy to to
(24:47):
consecrate the body and blood ofChrist.
I'm not worthy to absolvepeople of their sin.
Um, but that's coming from aplace of pride, really, you know
, of saying like my sinfulness Ithink that's what's beautiful
about these prayers is you'reyou're saying my sinfulness does
(25:07):
not outweigh God's mercy.
Because when we struggle with,when we think that our sins are
unforgivable, that's coming froma place of deep pride, like
that's what we're saying isGod's mercy is not great enough
to outweigh this sin that I'vecommitted.
Like I'm clearly a bigger dealthan God.
(25:28):
I have more power than Him.
My sin has more power than Hismercy.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
I can do something that impedes His ministry.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
And His love for me.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
There was a.
We are at Seek, of course, andyou just reminded me of one of
Tammy Peterson's comments.
She was talking about gratitudeand she says that gratitude is
a narrow way, and she said oneither side of this narrow way
of gratitude is resentment.
So, basically, you need tocontinue persevering in your
(25:59):
gratitude, because if you stoppersevering in gratitude, you're
going to hit resentment.
If you don't persevere invulnerability, you're going to
go off of this narrow way.
And, like CS Lewis was sayingand there's many things that we
need to persevere in this thing,because that's the choice we
are either a slave of God or aslave of sin.
(26:20):
And so if we in any way meanderfrom slavery to God, we are in
slave of sin.
If we don't worship God, we'regoing to worship something.
Worshiping is built into us,created into us by God, and so
if we stop worshiping God, we'regoing to worship something else
.
We're going to treat somethingelse as God, whether that's us
or someone that we love,whatever it is, we'll treat them
(26:42):
or us as God if we don't stayon that narrow path of making
sure that we're worshiping theright person, being a slave to
God, et cetera.
That reminds me.
Here's just another.
This is one of the ones that wepray most often.
This is what a leader, a priestor a hegemon would pray every
single night.
I'm just going to read part ofit.
But this is part of Compline,and in our Byzantine Compline
(27:03):
the priest in this case standsin front of the icon of the
mother of God and prays thislong, beautiful prayer and then
turns to the icon of Christ andprays a long, beautiful prayer.
And I love this because, in asense, when we're talking to the
mother of God, we're talking toour mother, and Compline is
right before we go to bed.
If you ever go to Christ'sBridegroom Monastery, you pray
Compline and then mother givesyou a blessing, the mother of
(27:24):
Cecilia, the Hegmena and thenyou're in silence and you just
walk and go to bed.
It's the first thing you do.
So, basically, when you hearthis, the leader is speaking for
everybody, but he's speakingfor himself first and he goes.
I'm about to go fight a battle.
Going to bed is a battle.
Your body gets weaker, as itshould, so you can fall asleep.
(27:45):
When your body gets weaker,your spirit gets weaker and
you're going to find temptationstowards self-hatred.
You're going to go through thewhole day and have regrets about
everything you said, everythingyou did.
You're going to be filled withlust.
All these things that happen asour bodies get weaker, our
spirits get weaker, and so theseprayers are basically saying
Mother of God and our Lord, giveme a blessing, give me the
(28:07):
armor I need to go to thisbattle of going to sleep, of
keeping my mind, as we say inthe Psalm, so many times as I
lay down to bed, let me meditateupon your commandments.
Let your commandments be what'sin my head, not all these other
things that are going to get inthe way and, you know, maybe
turn against me and my spouseand my God and everybody.
(28:27):
So here's one of the lines fromthis big, long prayer.
Again, this is to the mother ofGod you are the only hope of
those who have no hope, alwaysready to come to the aid of
every Christian who seeks refugein you.
Though I have often defiledmyself with all sorts of
impurities, thoughts, words anddeeds, though slothfulness has
(28:48):
enslaved me to lust, though Ioften find myself weighed down
by despair and depression, donot despise me.
As the mother of God, yourheart is filled with love and
compassion for all mankind.
Therefore, pity me, in spite ofmy sinfulness.
Accept this prayer from theseimpure lips of mine, with
boldness that only a mothercould manifest.
(29:10):
Implore your Son, our Lord andGod, to show me his deep and
tender mercies.
Entreat him not to regard thenumberless times I have fallen,
but to lead me to truerepentance, that, as his friend
and follower, I may be alwaysconscious of his precepts and
ever ready to observe them.
And you, sweet lady, in yourgraciousness, stay with me.
(29:30):
Take my part at all times.
Enable me to repel alltemptations to achieve my
eternal salvation.
At the moment of my death,embrace and comfort my sorry
soul and drive off theterrifying specters of the evil
one.
On that awesome day of judgment, save me from everlasting
punishment.
Reveal me as a true heir of theinevitable glory which your son
(29:51):
has promised in his grace andin his love.
I love that line.
Mother of God, stay with me.
Like I can't do this, I'm goingto bed.
I, like you are the queen ofpurity, you were sinless.
Like.
Remain with me as I go to fightthis battle that I'm going to
lose.
So send your son to protect me,send him to save me, send him
(30:12):
to give me all these things Ineed.
But again, this is everybody'shearing this, but it's the
leader who's saying it.
You know, we put leaders up ona pedestal and the leader
doesn't have to say althoughthey do later on in the same
service, here's my sins, here'smy actual sins.
But before that, they just sayI'm going to read a list of what
everybody struggles with.
(30:33):
And you who look to me forinspiration and guidance and
leadership, I'm telling you Ifall into these sins.
So please pray for me, thatyour leader who's struggling
with these things, that when youstruggle you may also find
inspiration in the vulnerableway that Christ had.
That allows me to be vulnerableas well.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
Yeah, there is.
So two thoughts.
One is just what's striking mein all of these prayers is the
plea for help, the plea forprotection, because I think that
one of the great struggles ofour time.
I was just talking to the ladywho flew next to me, who was
sitting next to me on the flighthere, who I was telling people
(31:15):
that I realized that she gave mea lemon-lime candy at some
point during the flight and onlythe next day at my hotel did I
realize I literally took candyfrom a stranger but it was
delicious and I was totally fineYou're still alive and I was
totally fine, you're still alive, I'm still alive.
And then we talked about thattime that I took a burrito from
a stranger in a bar, which wasalso delicious, anyways.
(31:37):
So I was not a nun, I don't knowif that makes it better or
worse, but I was talking to her.
She asked me I've led a retreat, a literal pustenia, taking
women from Wyoming Catholic outinto the desert for five days on
a backpacking trip and we're insilence for the five days and I
(31:58):
give them a conference everyday in one-on-one spiritual
direction.
And she asked what's thegreatest challenge on those
trips?
And I said.
I think that one of thegreatest challenges which no
Catholic this woman wasn'tCatholic no Catholic has ever
asked me that and I was likethat's a really interesting
question.
And I think one of the greatestchallenges on those trips is
(32:23):
there's this tendency that's soprevalent in our current
Catholic culture of just likeI'm going to overcome my sin and
I'm going to grit my teeth andclench my fists and I'm going to
plow through this and I'm goingto fight this thing and I'm
going to overcome it and thenI'm going to be perfect and I'm
going to, you know, and I'vedone episodes before on just
(32:48):
like.
That's not the point, you know.
I think that we get into thismindset of I want to be holy so
that I don't sin anymore, and soit's like the not sinning is
the point, that's the goal.
But the goal is relationshipwith the Lord and we want to not
(33:11):
sin, because sin impedesrelationship with the Lord.
It's not like we wantrelationship with the Lord so
that we don't sin, but we getthat mixed up all the time.
And I think what's beautiful inthese prayers one of the
beautiful things is is it's notabout the not sinning for the
sake of not sinning.
It's about wanting relationshipwith the Lord and in the very
prayers we're seeking thatrelationship in the midst of our
(33:34):
sinfulness.
And it's not like I'm going tostep aside and try to get rid of
this sinfulness before Iapproach the Lord.
It's that in the midst of thisI'm trying to approach him and
asking for his help with that.
So that was one of the things.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
And I think that's what CS Lewis says when he says
that love, which God is loverequires vulnerability.
So when we are vulnerable,we're in a sense preparing to be
saved, and that's why we do it.
We don't do it because it's funto be vulnerable or it's risky
or it's you know there's adanger to it.
We do it because it's fun to bevulnerable or it's risky or
it's you know there's a dangerto it.
We do it because we'repreparing to be saved and that's
(34:12):
a necessary part of love.
Is actually saying it's not.
Christ on the cross is theexample, the icon of love and
everything, even his nakedness,was a sign of vulnerability,
because he's the new Adam.
Therefore he was naked withoutshame.
Speaker 3 (34:33):
But the other thing that I was thinking of, as you
were talking about how theleader is, is proclaiming their
own sinfulness.
Um, and even if it's not beingdone, you know in detail, it's
this concept of of I'm a sinner,just like all of you are.
You know, and it reminded me ofthis, there's a story in of the
desert Fathers in which a youngmonk is terribly struggling
with lust, and so he goes to oneof the older monks to confess
(34:57):
this and to ask for guidance.
And the older monk, who's neverstruggled with lust before,
shames the young monk and he'slike you're disgusting, how can
you be a monk?
What are you doing with yourlife?
You need to go back to theworld, or you need to get your
act together, or whatever.
So this young monk starts to goback to the world and he's just
(35:18):
in total despair, right, and hecomes across another elder and
this elder says you know what'swrong, what's going on?
And he sees the despair on thisyoung monk's face and he tells
him and so then this elder praysthat the demon of lust that's
been afflicting this young monkwill go instead and afflict this
(35:42):
older monk that he's consulted.
And so when the elder goes tovisit this older monk.
He's been, you know, strugglingwith the demon of lust for like
two seconds and he's flunghimself outside on the ground
outside of his little hermitageand he's like just in total
despair and he's weeping andhe's all these things.
(36:04):
And when this elder approacheshim, you know, he says you know,
my brother, um, you know mybrother what's what's wrong?
And and he tells him about thishorrible thing and and whatever
.
But it's just like we're.
So we can be so lacking in incompassion compassion, as we've
talked about again,etymologically meaning suffering
with um just because we'venever suffered with something
(36:28):
ourselves.
And that's not to say I don'tmean that as leaders we need to
struggle with the same exact sinas those who are following us,
but to just realize that in oursinfulness we can be
compassionate with another'ssinfulness, even if it's not the
same sin as ours.
(36:48):
And the moment we're losing,the moment we lose that
compassion, then I think we'vereally lost a lot of authority
as leaders.
You know like we need to havethat compassion.
Speaker 2 (37:05):
Yeah, and I think that's where where, in a very
real sense, sin is sin.
Sin separates us from God andthere's, as we are purged of
that through Christ's power, wegrow in virtue.
And virtue is just nearness toGod.
It's being filled with God,it's becoming in union with him
through theosis.
So there is a very real again.
(37:28):
Before I judge, it's like beforeI go, before the Eucharist, I
bow three times.
Before I touch the Eucharist, Isay you know, oh God, be
merciful to me, a sinner.
The same thing could happenbefore I go talk to anybody.
I'm encountering an icon ofChrist in this soul, I'm
encountering a child of God.
And I should, in a sense, dothe same thing before I go talk
to someone, especially if I'mgoing to call them out, or
(37:49):
especially if I'm asked tocorrect them in some way.
I need to, in a sense like whatMoses the Black did, right, he
used to literally have abackpack with sand in it and he
would some say water, some saysand.
He would poke a hole in thebottom of it so that everywhere
he walked, a trail of sand wouldfollow behind him and sand
(38:11):
would follow behind him.
And he would always say thesand symbolizes my sin.
So, as you see me walk aroundas your hegemon, never think
that I don't sin, he says, butnotice it's behind me.
I don't always see it.
So basically, I need brothersto call me out.
So if I'm calling you out onyour sin, know that my sin is
just flowing behind me and I mayneed you, as a brother, also to
call that out.
(38:35):
All right, we have five minutesleft Before we go.
Do you want to do a mini topicand have a one quick question?
Sure, okay, we have fiveminutes.
Do we have just one question?
We'll do a mini topic that oneof you may have.
Raise your hand and Kyle willhand somebody that he sees the
microphone.
Thank you One question and thiswill be our mini topic for the
microphone.
Thank you One question and thiswill be our mini topic for the
day.
As that's happening, I do wantto give two quick shout-outs.
Versalto Coffee is who gave usour coffee?
(38:57):
They have a stand in the backover there.
They'll make you the mostamazing coffee.
It's named after Versati.
So I will be going to GiorgioVersati's canonization with
Chris Stefanik.
If you want to go with us, justgo look up Real Life Catholic.
We're going to Georgia forSaudi's canonization with Chris
Stefanik.
If you want to go with us, justgo look up Real Life Catholic.
We're going to go to Italy.
It's going to be amazing.
It's going to be crazy, butit's going to be absolutely
beautiful the Jubilee year inItaly and then for Saudi's
(39:20):
canonization.
Mother and I are also going toEastern Europe.
We're going to Poland.
We're going to Slovakia.
We're going to Poland.
We're going to Slovakia.
We're going to Hungary, to allof our Byzantine shrines.
We're also going to go see JohnPaul II, where he was.
We're going to go to DivineMercy.
We're going to go to Auschwitz,where Maximilian Kolbe was.
We're going to be dwelling thisas well.
So both of those are through206 tours.
If you want to go to either ofthose, please come, talk to us
(39:42):
or find them at 206 tours.
I also want to encourage you,after this, to go to the talk by
Noelle Mehring, who's a reallygood friend of mine.
She's an amazing speaker.
She's talking at 2.15.
You can find it on the schedule.
Speaker 3 (39:54):
She's my friend too.
Speaker 2 (39:55):
Yes, I'm sorry, she's also one of the talkers, but I
knew her first, so ha.
Speaker 3 (39:58):
But she loves me more .
Speaker 1 (40:00):
Question.
I got it.
Hello, my name is GabrielSacasa.
I was just wondering, as aRoman Catholic but who has
deeply come to love the Easterntradition through you guys,
Jonathan Paggio, what arepractical ways that one can
breathe with both lungs, as JP2says?
Speaker 3 (40:16):
The beard is a good first step.
Speaker 2 (40:18):
Thank you.
You're already winning withthat.
Yes, amen, I would say itdepends on what kind of
personality you have.
Maximus the Confessor is kindof our Thomas Aquinas, so read
Maximus the Confessor.
I would also say pray the Jesusprayer.
(40:39):
Lord Jesus Christ, son of God,have mercy on me, sinner, there
are certain things and basicallygo find a parish If there's one
anywhere near you, any one ofthe 24 Eastern Catholic churches
.
Go there, talk to the priest,meet the people, see how they
live, see how their prayer is.
It really is something thatneeds to be experienced.
Speaker 3 (40:59):
Icons is the other thing that I would say.
Learning to pray with icons andanything you can read by
Archbishop Joseph Raya is reallyfantastic.
Archbishop Joseph Raya.
Speaker 2 (41:13):
I'll give you another practical thing too.
One thing that I think we doreally well and this is
something I'm convicting myselfof is, if you have a Bible, put
it in a place of honor in yourroom.
You throw it in your bag, walkaround with it, that's fine, but
treat it with respect.
There's something that we do.
We Byzantines are so sensorythat the Word of God is so
(41:36):
accessible to us and it's on ourphones that we kind of forget.
We don't treat it withreverence and the simple
physical things.
So when you get home from schoolor work and your Bible's in
your backpack have a littlethrone in your room, put it
there and venerate it.
Venerate the Bible and put itthere.
When you have your icons, samething.
Have a special place in yourhome or in your room where you
(41:58):
put the things of reverence.
Icons are windows into heavenand we've lost this because we
have icons on our phones.
We have the Bible on our phones.
Keep on doing that.
But also just take the thingsyou're already using, put them
in a place of honor in your room, venerate them, kiss them,
thank God for them and let thatbe, in a sense, the protection,
the presence of God All right.
(42:19):
Thank you, brother.
Speaker 3 (42:20):
Good to be with you in person.
Speaker 2 (42:21):
All right.
Speaker 3 (42:22):
Yes, since I am not a priest, can you please give
everyone here a blessing, myselfincluded?
Speaker 2 (42:29):
May the Lord bless you and keep you, cause His face
to shine upon you, have mercyon you.
May our Lord soften your heartto His word.
May you have reverence for Hisholy things.
May you, especially if you'rein your leadership, get wisdom
and vulnerability, a truevulnerability that reflects and
imitates Christ's ownvulnerability.
And may those who look to younot abuse or mistreat this.
(42:52):
And if you have ever mistreatedsomeone's vulnerability or
attacked or used it as a weapon,may you be convicted to ask for
forgiveness, first from God andthen also from them.
And may your words be blessed,words of joy in that asking of
forgiveness.
And may you forgive quicklyanybody who has also abused your
(43:12):
vulnerability.
And may this vulnerability thatyou see in your leaders, that
you offer those who look to youfor inspiration, may it be truly
a gift from God and a pathwayto heaven.
May the Lord bless you in thename of the Father and the Son
and the Holy Spirit.
Amen, bless you all.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (43:29):
Thanks for listening to this episode recorded live at
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Seek Replay has you coveredAccess, powerful keynotes,
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(43:50):
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Check out seekfocusorg for moreinformation and to register.
Welcome to the Seek 25 podcast, featuring some of
our favorite podcasters recordedlive at the Max Studios podcast
stage during Seek 25 in SaltLake City.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
All right in the name of the Father, the Son and the
Holy Spirit.
Amen.
Thank you, lord, for this time.
Thank you for our faith, forour baptisms, thank you for
Mother and my vocations.
Thank you for this podcast,lord, and all of our dear
listeners.
Thank you for our team thatallows it to happen.
Lord, please soften andstrengthen our hearts to say and
(00:45):
to hear and to love only whatis your will.
And if we say anything, lord,that is not of your will, please
strike it from our mouths andfrom the hearts and the minds of
those who listen.
Please, lord, send your spiritto our dear listeners that they
may receive and hear with yourears and may grow closer to you
through our words and throughyour ministry.
O Lord, lord, please blessespecially this episode, bless
(01:06):
this technology, bless ourconversation as we pray.
Heavenly King.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Comforter, Spirit of Truth, everywhere present and
filling all things, treasury ofblessings and giver of life come
and dwell within us, cleanse usof all stain and save our souls
, o gracious one.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
In the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy
Spirit.
Amen.
Glory to Jesus Christ.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Glory to him forever.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Hello Mother.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
Hi Father.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Hello, sea of listeners.
Thank you guys.
This is, I think, the biggestwe've gotten my gosh.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Someone was on Pints with Aquinas a lot and helped
our listenership.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
Was that you?
Speaker 2 (01:48):
No, not us a lot and helped our listenership.
Was that you?
No, not at all.
Well, thank you all for comingout.
We appreciate it immensely.
Hopefully we'll have some goodthings to say as you can listen,
and then at the end we're goingto try to do a Q&A as well.
Beth, if you could raise yourhand please.
We have a wonderful artistfriend named Olivia and she
designed our stickers this year,and Beth is walking around and
(02:10):
handing out stickers for Seek2025.
If anybody here wants thosestickers, I also want to
publicly thank Olivia, theartist, for making me taller
than Joan of Arc, because thatprobably wasn't true in real
life, although she's just largerthan life, but anyway, the
sticker has me taller than Joanof Arc, so I appreciate that.
All right, sikh's beenwonderful so far.
(02:31):
Thank you for those of you whojoined us for Royal Hours
earlier.
If you follow us on Instagram,we will do some Byzantine
prayers and it was great at thisevent to do some Byzantine
prayers as we prepare for thebaptism of our Lord in the
Byzantine church.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
My favorite.
I hope that no one's offendedthat I had a favorite at Royal
Hours, but my favorite attendeewas most certainly Anastasia,
who I saw her earlier.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
There she is.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
So she was a champ for the whole of Royal Hours and
doing lots of gymnastics on thefloor throughout, and it was
really delightful.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
We didn't have any candles or fire, which we
Byzantines really like ourcandles and incense.
We had none of that, and so Iwas looking at her head and she
was running around while I waspraying the red-haired little
girl.
I was praying the gospel.
I was like, oh, this is ourlittle flaming baby running
around.
I know that's not how you saythat, but that was on my mind,
not what that.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
that's not how you say that, but that was on my
mind.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Ignore me, all right.
So, mother, I'm putting myglasses at a time so I can read.
I want to thank yeah they'recute.
I like your glasses.
I want to start off, no.
I'm taking them off then I meanmanly, I want to thank you.
The topic we want to do todayis on vulnerability and
leadership, and this isn't justsomething I'm making up or we're
(03:48):
making up.
I actually have three examplesfrom our beautiful Byzantine
traditions and liturgies abouthow vulnerability works,
especially coming from a leader.
So there's we hear all the timeif you never watched Brene
Brown's TED Talk, please go dothat on vulnerability, a lot of
times we talk aboutvulnerability among peers I'm
(04:09):
going to read something in amoment about that but there's
the vulnerability when it comesto a leader.
This is the vulnerability ofparents for their children in
front of their children, ofpriests and nuns, hegumenas,
hegemons, leaders of communities.
What does it mean to bevulnerable in front of them?
And so we're going to use ourliturgical texts as kind of an
(04:30):
example of that.
But I want to start with aquick story.
I was sitting and I was makingfun of myself yesterday and as I
was making fun of myself, I wasmaking fun of myself for always
forgetting things and if youguys are common listeners, you
know that I forget things allthe time and I can make fun of
myself in front of MotherNatalia, and I was making fun of
(04:50):
myself in front of Beth, andthey were both laughing, and the
laughing was laughing with me,not laughing at me, and that may
seem so odd, but I thought Icould be vulnerable in front of
you, of course, and I could bevulnerable in front of Beth with
things that I don't like aboutmyself.
I don't like the fact that Iforget everything.
Now, there are also thingssometimes when I am vulnerable
(05:14):
because I need to changesomething, and then there's not
really a laughing matter.
I'm saying look, here's aweakness I have, even though I'm
your spiritual father.
Here's a weakness I have andthis I want to change.
Pray for me, please.
But there are other things thatI can't change.
I can't change the way mymemory works, and so when I can
be vulnerable in that waybecause there are situations
(05:35):
where, to use this example, Imay share something about I
forget everything Someone canabsolutely use that against me.
Someone could use it as a weapon.
Someone could turn it againstme.
Someone could write my bishopand say, please, send us someone
else, like, send us a priestthat actually remembers things.
This is utterly ridiculous,bishop, like they could use it
as a weapon, of course, and Ijust want to appreciate that you
(05:57):
don't.
Thank you, beth as well.
Thank you, bree and Greg andour entire team for not using
that against me.
I appreciate that immensely.
You want to make fun of me realquick before I read something.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
No.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
What do you want me to make fun of you for?
Speaker 2 (06:14):
I was giving you an opportunity while I looked at my
first reading.
No, all right, I apologize.
I'm going to do some readingand then I'm going to ask you,
of course, for feedback, mother.
And then I'm going to ask you,of course, for feedback, mother,
but these prayers in ourliturgy and in this case I'm
reading something from my oldfraternity so how many of you
listen to the Catholic Stuff youShould Know podcast, there we
(06:37):
go.
All right, I was on thatpodcast for years.
That was my first podcast.
As you know, we were a communityof priests.
I was the only Byzantine one,it was all Romans and it was
amazing To have community, andpriesthood allows for an immense
vulnerability that I think mostpriests do not understand and
don't really have the capacityto do that.
So I want to read you oneparagraph from our rule of life,
(06:58):
just to kind of get it kickedoff.
This was written by the priestin my fraternity.
By his wounds we were healed.
Though he knew what was in men,the incarnate word made
vulnerable the heart of God, asperfect love casts out fear.
The one who contemplates thetransfigured wounds of Christ
(07:20):
desires never again to say I wasnaked, so I hid myself,
captivated by the beauty ofdivine vulnerability, the
companion, the priest in thiscommunity, responds with courage
, rendering vulnerable his ownopaque interiority, that, at the
risk of rejection, he gains thepossibility of communion.
(07:41):
Vulnerability with Christ inthe presence of his brothers, is
the hallmark of the companion'scommon life.
So this touches on the realmeaning of vulnerability, which
is, you mentioned, a betterdefinition than I had earlier.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
Well, etymologically it means able to be wounded.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Able to be wounded.
So when we're vulnerable, we'reliterally leading with the
ability to be wounded.
I'm sharing something with youand you could use this as a
weapon.
You could.
And vulnerability means, in asense I trust you enough that
you will not use this as aweapon, that you will actually
treasure it.
It'll be something that allowsyou to love me better.
(08:21):
And so what?
The reason I started off withthat was because any
vulnerability that comes inleadership has to be rooted in
Christ's own vulnerability, aswe've been.
By his wounds.
We were healed, and there wassomething about the
vulnerability of Adam and Evethat they in a sense the devil
abused them.
(08:42):
They abused themselves and theyhid themselves, and because
they were trying to protectsomething by hiding that before
that they're being naked withoutshame, that that vulnerability
was something so beautiful thatwhen that was abused by sin,
then all of a sudden they had tohide themselves.
(09:03):
And I like how it says in thatpart of the rule never again
will I say I was naked and I wasshameful and I was vulnerable
so I hid myself, but rather I'mvulnerable so I show myself to
Christ, and that's, of course,what it says.
Christ, of course, is theleader.
He is the king, he is theprince of heaven.
So there's, he was vulnerable,he allowed himself to be wounded
(09:25):
by us and by sin, and so thatis the example, that is the
primary example of any leaderwhen they want to find what it
means to be vulnerable to theirflock, to those who they
actually have authority over.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
And obviously this happens like.
The clearest example of this isthe crucifixion.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
In allowing himself to be yeah, to be wounded.
In that sense, what is this?
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Water.
Oh, and while we were prayingtoday, it's really whiskey, I'm
just kidding, it's water.
I wish when we were prayingtoday it dawned on me we were
praying royal hours earlier forTheophany.
And Theophany is ourcelebration, our commemoration
of Christ's baptism, and itactually said in our prayers I'm
(10:11):
sure you noticed it said thatwho are we to see?
Christ naked in the river?
All of our iconography showshim being baptized and partly
clothed.
But just like our icons right,he was probably naked being
baptized.
There was a sign.
A very real sign of this is thenew Adam.
Adam was naked without shame.
(10:31):
Christ, when he was beingbaptized, was naked without
shame.
Christ on the cross was nakedwithout shame, and this is the
example that any of us in anyform of leadership whether
that's parents again, bosses,anybody who looks to us for any
sort of leadership as a shepherdneeds to find that ability to
be properly vulnerable.
(10:54):
All right, I want to read.
I'm going to start with myfavorite.
So this again I want to sharethings from our liturgical life
so we're not just kind ofriffing and making stuff up.
But this is a beautiful prayer,so this is actually what it
says in the book.
I do not listen to the book.
I'm sorry, I know I do what Iwant in this, but it says During
(11:17):
this litany the priest praysthe following prayer silently If
there is no deacon.
The priest says it privatelybefore the service of baptism.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
So this is not supposed to be said out loud,
but Fr Michael Bachman is aboverubrics.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
I am way below rubrics, too far below rubrics,
but I want to share this becauseif you've been to a Byzantine
baptism, you probably did nothear this, and I apologize.
I cannot remain unemotionalduring baptisms and this is one
of my favorite parts, and I'vedone probably 200 baptisms in my
(11:52):
life, if not more, and I'mprobably going to cry.
I apologize, try to get throughme.
I'll hand it to you, mother,and you can finish reading it,
if I don't Wait.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
Can we first just can we pause there?
I want to know why you'reapologizing for crying, like
you're doing an episode aboutthe importance of vulnerability
in leadership, and then youapologize for crying.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Well, thank you, I want you to be able to
understand it and hear it, and Iwant to make sure it's clear,
like if I could just have AIread it and I could just cry
while it's being read.
That'd be easier, but okay, sothis is what the priest says Do
you want me to read it, but okay.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
So this is what the priest says.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Do you want me to read?
It Is that helpful.
I'm not a priest.
I'll read it just because I'm apriest.
So this is what the priest says, and this is what he says right
before the baptism.
So, basically, he's about topass on and allow this child or
the adult to die to their sinand death and arise with Christ.
(12:44):
And God asked him to be the onewho did this.
And so the priest has to standwith immense humility.
In the Byzantine church, in theliturgy, whenever any priest is
about to touch the Eucharistwith his bare hands, you will
always see him do three bows ohGod, be merciful to me, a sinner
.
Oh God, be merciful to me, asinner.
(13:05):
Oh God, be merciful to me, asinner.
Oh God, be merciful to me, asinner Anytime he's about to
touch the Eucharist.
So we stand with a fear of Godbefore we touch the Eucharist
and a deacon and a priest,because in the Byzantine church
you would never touch theEucharist with your hands unless
you're a deacon or a priest.
And so the first time a deaconis given the Eucharist, it's put
(13:27):
in his hand and he rests hishand on the altar.
Like it's too heavy, Like Ican't even support this, I rest
it on the altar.
And then a priest when he alsoreceives it for the first time
in the hand.
Again, he rests it on the altar.
I rest it on the altar as soonas I put it in my hand, Like
it's just a reminder that thishas a heft to it, a weight to it
(13:48):
.
And speaking of vulnerability,my gosh, like the vulnerability
of God.
To decide that Christ's body,blood, soul and divinity is
going to rest in my hand isincredible.
You know, the fact that wereceive him is incredible, Like
it's just amazing vulnerability.
I'll stop, Okay.
This is what the church says.
This is what the priest says.
Oh, compassionate and mercifulGod, you alone search the heart
(14:10):
and soul.
You know their secrets.
There is nothing hidden fromyou.
All things are naked andexposed to your sight.
Since you know everything aboutme, do not loathe me or turn
your face away from me, butrather, at this time, overlook
my offenses, as you overlook thesins of all when they repent.
Wash away the filth of my bodyand soul and make all my being
(14:34):
holy and perfect by your unseenpower and your spiritual right
hand.
That, while I proclaim freedomand I offer it to others by the
perfect faith of yourunspeakable love for mankind, I
myself may not be found anabandoned slave of sin.
O Master, you alone are goodand you love mankind.
Do not humiliate me, but sendupon me the power from on high
(14:58):
and strengthen me for theministry of this great and
heavenly mystery.
Form Christ in him, who nowseeks to be born again through
my humble ministry.
Build him firmly upon thefoundation of your apostles and
prophets.
Do not destroy him, but planthim as a planting of truth in
your holy Catholic and apostolicchurch.
That he may not be rooted out,that he grows in the practice of
(15:19):
faith.
Your all holy name of theFather and of the Son and of the
Holy Spirit may be glorified inhim, now and ever and forever.
Amen.
Like I kind of understand whythey would want you to say that
silently, right, I mean thepriest has to stand there saying
I'm an abandoned, do not allowme to be abandoned slave of sin.
(15:39):
I am a slave of sin, but do notabandon me.
And then it says build up thisperson about to be baptized on
the firm foundation of faith.
Right, this is the foundationof the altar where we rest our
hand.
This is the foundation of thefaith where this also this
person who was a slave of sin,whether they were an infant or
an adult.
In a sense, now is receiving,of course, your gift, oh Lord,
(16:03):
of your own vulnerability thatallows them to enter into your
own body and therefore enterinto the heavenly reality.
Speaker 3 (16:09):
This is such a beautiful prayer against
clericalism, right, Like it'snot.
This idea of the man who is thepriest is better than the rest
of us, is more deserving of thisrole, or something like that.
It's like there's thisproclamation of your own
(16:31):
sinfulness and it reminds me ofare you going to talk about is
one of the prayers during theliturgy, like the priest's
prayer before receivingcommunion.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
Oh, maybe I'm making this up, what?
Speaker 2 (16:46):
are you thinking of?
Speaker 3 (16:48):
Well, just like that, the priest acknowledges his own
sinfulness at the anaphora.
Do you know what I'm talkingabout?
Speaker 2 (16:54):
I think so.
I think I have that ready to go.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
Okay great, that's just what it reminds me of.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Yeah, there's a.
And see, this is really funny,because I just acted very
clerically when I said I'm goingto read it out loud just
because I want to, if the booksays, don't do it, I shouldn't
do it.
But it's like there's somethingabout.
Of course, when I read itprivately, as the book says,
there's something beautiful thatI need to be reminded of this
(17:20):
and I guess it possibly could bedistracting to people, because
in that moment, the priest isjust talking to God and it is a
private thing.
It could, of course, becomeshowy, like I'm just reading it
aloud on a podcast.
It could become showy, but whenit's actually being prayed at
baptism it's not.
It's like I'm talking to God,I'm doing it alone, alone, which
, of course, is beautiful.
And you're saying don't let mebe an obstacle, don't let my sin
(17:42):
be an obstacle, and yeah, Ithink I think that's one thing
that any priest, anybody who'sfollowing rubrics, needs to
understand is that if we go offscript, we can absolutely become
an obstacle, like to what Godis trying to do in this, in this
liturgy itself.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
Let me read this.
This may be what you weretalking about.
So this is right before theanaphora, right before the
consecration in the liturgy ofSt Basil the Great, who we
celebrated two days ago, and Ithink you Roman Catholics
celebrated it when Basil theGreat, one day ago, yesterday.
So this is St Basil the Great.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
Shout out to Brother Basil, whose feast day it was.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
Happy feast day, brother, all right.
So this is what the priest says, and in our, in our liturgy, he
does say this out loud againvulnerability and leadership.
God and mercy and kindness, youhave visited our lowliness.
You have appointed us, yourhumble, sinful and unworthy
servants, to minister at yourholy altar in the presence of
your holy glory, through thepower of your Holy Spirit,
(18:38):
strengthen us in this serviceand permit us to open our mouth
and call down the grace of yourHoly Spirit upon the gifts about
to be offered.
That, being ever protected byyour power, we may give glory to
you, father, son and HolySpirit, now and ever and forever
.
Amen, again, that just struck mejust now.
Being protected by your power,because there is something like
(18:59):
Noah, right In his vulnerabilityafter getting drunk, in his
weakness, he becomes vulnerableand that's taken advantage of by
one of his sons, and hisvulnerability is covered,
protected by his other sons,thank God.
So there's something we'resaying in this liturgy we are
about to be vulnerable becausethat's what we've decided to do
as priests and as celebrants.
(19:19):
But so, lord, please protect usIn your vulnerability.
Protect us and let thisvulnerability not be abused or
used as a weapon.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
Yeah, I want to say a couple of things that came to
mind as you were speaking, but Idon't know if any of them are
related to what you were doingor talking about.
So great?
Uh, because the first one, onethat came to mind just as you
were speaking right now, is thethe CS Lewis quote, um, from the
(19:52):
four loves.
Uh, actually, if, um, I don'tknow if this is allowed.
If anyone can like someone,sandy, I'll just put this can
you look up, um, cs lewis, thefour loves to love at all is to
be vulnerable, and I'm gonnaread that out loud um, there's a
quote that starts with to loveat all is to be vulnerable.
If I were mother petra, I wouldbe able to just quote this
whole thing off the top of myhead, but I am not mother.
(20:14):
Um, but that.
That quote came to mind, whichthen is just um, oh, thank you,
sandy.
Okay, so the four loves is oneof my favorite books and I'll
put this out there.
If any of you listen to audiobooks, I'm only listening to, um
(20:37):
, my second audio book ever.
Right now, the first audio bookthat I'm listening to is Counts
of Monte Cristo with BrotherBasil.
But, oh, things are happening,everything's fine, it's fine.
But I just started listening tothe Four Loves on Spotify and
it's recorded in CS Lewis'svoice.
Did you people know that thisexisted?
(20:58):
There's a recording of CS Lewisreading the Four Loves, and
it's on Spotify, but this is oneof my favorite quotes from it.
He says to love at all is to bevulnerable.
Love anything and your heartwill be wrung and possibly
broken.
If you want to make sure ofkeeping it intact, you must give
(21:19):
it to no one, not even ananimal.
Wrap it carefully round withhobbies and little luxuries,
avoid all entanglements.
Lock it up safe in the casketor coffin of your selfishness.
But in that casket, safe, dark,motionless, airless.
It will change, it will not bebroken, it will become
(21:43):
unbreakable, impenetrable,irredeemable.
To love is to be vulnerable andI I love that quote because to
love, um, this vulnerabilitythat you're talking about, like
this, the ability to be wounded,as we were talking about
(22:04):
etymologically, that's what itmeans, um, able to be wounded,
and um, you know, one of thethings that we were talking
about yesterday is one of thethings that Father Boniface said
in his talk yesterday was aboutthe healing power of love and
(22:26):
the healing power ofvulnerability, and I think
that's because you know this,like the father is Porphyrius.
St Porphyrius talks about beingwounded by love.
John of the Cross talks aboutbeing wounded by love, and it's
love talks about being woundedby love, and it's love that
heals us.
And so if we're not open tothis, if we're not open to the
wounding by love, if we're notopen to being wounded, period,
(22:51):
then we're not going to behealed and we're going to just
be like unbreakable but alsounhealable.
And you know, I was thinking asyou were talking about the
royal hours in theophany.
The line that I thought you weregoing to mention was there was
a line in which we talked abouthow John the Baptist gave in,
(23:13):
and we were talking about thatyesterday.
That's one of my, one of thelines from the scripture that
always pierces me about thebaptism of the Lord is John the
Baptist is protesting and he'slike I'm not worthy of baptizing
you, why are you here?
And then in one translation itsays he gave in.
And I think we get sooverwhelmed by life.
(23:40):
There's so much pressure,there's so much pressure,
there's so much stress thatwe're always going to give in
eventually and we can eithergive in to the devil or we can
give in to the Lord.
And in this particular case,john the Baptist giving in and
(24:05):
being vulnerable in that way,allowing himself to be wounded
by love of the Lord is.
It's a giving in and it's thevulnerability of, of leadership
(24:25):
that we're talking about,because this is the.
The greatest struggle, I think,for me and for for priests who
are, who are struggling to alsohave humility while also leading
, is like.
This is the temptation of I'mnot, I'm not worthy to to do a
podcast, I'm not worthy to givehomilies, I'm not worthy to to
(24:47):
consecrate the body and blood ofChrist.
I'm not worthy to absolvepeople of their sin.
Um, but that's coming from aplace of pride, really, you know
, of saying like my sinfulness Ithink that's what's beautiful
about these prayers is you'reyou're saying my sinfulness does
(25:07):
not outweigh God's mercy.
Because when we struggle with,when we think that our sins are
unforgivable, that's coming froma place of deep pride, like
that's what we're saying isGod's mercy is not great enough
to outweigh this sin that I'vecommitted.
Like I'm clearly a bigger dealthan God.
(25:28):
I have more power than Him.
My sin has more power than Hismercy.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
I can do something that impedes His ministry.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
And His love for me.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
There was a.
We are at Seek, of course, andyou just reminded me of one of
Tammy Peterson's comments.
She was talking about gratitudeand she says that gratitude is
a narrow way, and she said oneither side of this narrow way
of gratitude is resentment.
So, basically, you need tocontinue persevering in your
(25:59):
gratitude, because if you stoppersevering in gratitude, you're
going to hit resentment.
If you don't persevere invulnerability, you're going to
go off of this narrow way.
And, like CS Lewis was sayingand there's many things that we
need to persevere in this thing,because that's the choice we
are either a slave of God or aslave of sin.
(26:20):
And so if we in any way meanderfrom slavery to God, we are in
slave of sin.
If we don't worship God, we'regoing to worship something.
Worshiping is built into us,created into us by God, and so
if we stop worshiping God, we'regoing to worship something else
.
We're going to treat somethingelse as God, whether that's us
or someone that we love,whatever it is, we'll treat them
(26:42):
or us as God if we don't stayon that narrow path of making
sure that we're worshiping theright person, being a slave to
God, et cetera.
That reminds me.
Here's just another.
This is one of the ones that wepray most often.
This is what a leader, a priestor a hegemon would pray every
single night.
I'm just going to read part ofit.
But this is part of Compline,and in our Byzantine Compline
(27:03):
the priest in this case standsin front of the icon of the
mother of God and prays thislong, beautiful prayer and then
turns to the icon of Christ andprays a long, beautiful prayer.
And I love this because, in asense, when we're talking to the
mother of God, we're talking toour mother, and Compline is
right before we go to bed.
If you ever go to Christ'sBridegroom Monastery, you pray
Compline and then mother givesyou a blessing, the mother of
(27:24):
Cecilia, the Hegmena and thenyou're in silence and you just
walk and go to bed.
It's the first thing you do.
So, basically, when you hearthis, the leader is speaking for
everybody, but he's speakingfor himself first and he goes.
I'm about to go fight a battle.
Going to bed is a battle.
Your body gets weaker, as itshould, so you can fall asleep.
(27:45):
When your body gets weaker,your spirit gets weaker and
you're going to find temptationstowards self-hatred.
You're going to go through thewhole day and have regrets about
everything you said, everythingyou did.
You're going to be filled withlust.
All these things that happen asour bodies get weaker, our
spirits get weaker, and so theseprayers are basically saying
Mother of God and our Lord, giveme a blessing, give me the
(28:07):
armor I need to go to thisbattle of going to sleep, of
keeping my mind, as we say inthe Psalm, so many times as I
lay down to bed, let me meditateupon your commandments.
Let your commandments be what'sin my head, not all these other
things that are going to get inthe way and, you know, maybe
turn against me and my spouseand my God and everybody.
(28:27):
So here's one of the lines fromthis big, long prayer.
Again, this is to the mother ofGod you are the only hope of
those who have no hope, alwaysready to come to the aid of
every Christian who seeks refugein you.
Though I have often defiledmyself with all sorts of
impurities, thoughts, words anddeeds, though slothfulness has
(28:48):
enslaved me to lust, though Ioften find myself weighed down
by despair and depression, donot despise me.
As the mother of God, yourheart is filled with love and
compassion for all mankind.
Therefore, pity me, in spite ofmy sinfulness.
Accept this prayer from theseimpure lips of mine, with
boldness that only a mothercould manifest.
(29:10):
Implore your Son, our Lord andGod, to show me his deep and
tender mercies.
Entreat him not to regard thenumberless times I have fallen,
but to lead me to truerepentance, that, as his friend
and follower, I may be alwaysconscious of his precepts and
ever ready to observe them.
And you, sweet lady, in yourgraciousness, stay with me.
(29:30):
Take my part at all times.
Enable me to repel alltemptations to achieve my
eternal salvation.
At the moment of my death,embrace and comfort my sorry
soul and drive off theterrifying specters of the evil
one.
On that awesome day of judgment, save me from everlasting
punishment.
Reveal me as a true heir of theinevitable glory which your son
(29:51):
has promised in his grace andin his love.
I love that line.
Mother of God, stay with me.
Like I can't do this, I'm goingto bed.
I, like you are the queen ofpurity, you were sinless.
Like.
Remain with me as I go to fightthis battle that I'm going to
lose.
So send your son to protect me,send him to save me, send him
(30:12):
to give me all these things Ineed.
But again, this is everybody'shearing this, but it's the
leader who's saying it.
You know, we put leaders up ona pedestal and the leader
doesn't have to say althoughthey do later on in the same
service, here's my sins, here'smy actual sins.
But before that, they just sayI'm going to read a list of what
everybody struggles with.
(30:33):
And you who look to me forinspiration and guidance and
leadership, I'm telling you Ifall into these sins.
So please pray for me, thatyour leader who's struggling
with these things, that when youstruggle you may also find
inspiration in the vulnerableway that Christ had.
That allows me to be vulnerableas well.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
Yeah, there is.
So two thoughts.
One is just what's striking mein all of these prayers is the
plea for help, the plea forprotection, because I think that
one of the great struggles ofour time.
I was just talking to the ladywho flew next to me, who was
sitting next to me on the flighthere, who I was telling people
(31:15):
that I realized that she gave mea lemon-lime candy at some
point during the flight and onlythe next day at my hotel did I
realize I literally took candyfrom a stranger but it was
delicious and I was totally fineYou're still alive and I was
totally fine, you're still alive, I'm still alive.
And then we talked about thattime that I took a burrito from
a stranger in a bar, which wasalso delicious, anyways.
(31:37):
So I was not a nun, I don't knowif that makes it better or
worse, but I was talking to her.
She asked me I've led a retreat, a literal pustenia, taking
women from Wyoming Catholic outinto the desert for five days on
a backpacking trip and we're insilence for the five days and I
(31:58):
give them a conference everyday in one-on-one spiritual
direction.
And she asked what's thegreatest challenge on those
trips?
And I said.
I think that one of thegreatest challenges which no
Catholic this woman wasn'tCatholic no Catholic has ever
asked me that and I was likethat's a really interesting
question.
And I think one of the greatestchallenges on those trips is
(32:23):
there's this tendency that's soprevalent in our current
Catholic culture of just likeI'm going to overcome my sin and
I'm going to grit my teeth andclench my fists and I'm going to
plow through this and I'm goingto fight this thing and I'm
going to overcome it and thenI'm going to be perfect and I'm
going to, you know, and I'vedone episodes before on just
(32:48):
like.
That's not the point, you know.
I think that we get into thismindset of I want to be holy so
that I don't sin anymore, and soit's like the not sinning is
the point, that's the goal.
But the goal is relationshipwith the Lord and we want to not
(33:11):
sin, because sin impedesrelationship with the Lord.
It's not like we wantrelationship with the Lord so
that we don't sin, but we getthat mixed up all the time.
And I think what's beautiful inthese prayers one of the
beautiful things is is it's notabout the not sinning for the
sake of not sinning.
It's about wanting relationshipwith the Lord and in the very
prayers we're seeking thatrelationship in the midst of our
(33:34):
sinfulness.
And it's not like I'm going tostep aside and try to get rid of
this sinfulness before Iapproach the Lord.
It's that in the midst of thisI'm trying to approach him and
asking for his help with that.
So that was one of the things.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
And I think that's what CS Lewis says when he says
that love, which God is loverequires vulnerability.
So when we are vulnerable,we're in a sense preparing to be
saved, and that's why we do it.
We don't do it because it's funto be vulnerable or it's risky
or it's you know there's adanger to it.
We do it because it's fun to bevulnerable or it's risky or
it's you know there's a dangerto it.
We do it because we'repreparing to be saved and that's
(34:12):
a necessary part of love.
Is actually saying it's not.
Christ on the cross is theexample, the icon of love and
everything, even his nakedness,was a sign of vulnerability,
because he's the new Adam.
Therefore he was naked withoutshame.
Speaker 3 (34:33):
But the other thing that I was thinking of, as you
were talking about how theleader is, is proclaiming their
own sinfulness.
Um, and even if it's not beingdone, you know in detail, it's
this concept of of I'm a sinner,just like all of you are.
You know, and it reminded me ofthis, there's a story in of the
desert Fathers in which a youngmonk is terribly struggling
with lust, and so he goes to oneof the older monks to confess
(34:57):
this and to ask for guidance.
And the older monk, who's neverstruggled with lust before,
shames the young monk and he'slike you're disgusting, how can
you be a monk?
What are you doing with yourlife?
You need to go back to theworld, or you need to get your
act together, or whatever.
So this young monk starts to goback to the world and he's just
(35:18):
in total despair, right, and hecomes across another elder and
this elder says you know what'swrong, what's going on?
And he sees the despair on thisyoung monk's face and he tells
him and so then this elder praysthat the demon of lust that's
been afflicting this young monkwill go instead and afflict this
(35:42):
older monk that he's consulted.
And so when the elder goes tovisit this older monk.
He's been, you know, strugglingwith the demon of lust for like
two seconds and he's flunghimself outside on the ground
outside of his little hermitageand he's like just in total
despair and he's weeping andhe's all these things.
(36:04):
And when this elder approacheshim, you know, he says you know,
my brother, um, you know mybrother what's what's wrong?
And and he tells him about thishorrible thing and and whatever
.
But it's just like we're.
So we can be so lacking in incompassion compassion, as we've
talked about again,etymologically meaning suffering
with um just because we'venever suffered with something
(36:28):
ourselves.
And that's not to say I don'tmean that as leaders we need to
struggle with the same exact sinas those who are following us,
but to just realize that in oursinfulness we can be
compassionate with another'ssinfulness, even if it's not the
same sin as ours.
(36:48):
And the moment we're losing,the moment we lose that
compassion, then I think we'vereally lost a lot of authority
as leaders.
You know like we need to havethat compassion.
Speaker 2 (37:05):
Yeah, and I think that's where where, in a very
real sense, sin is sin.
Sin separates us from God andthere's, as we are purged of
that through Christ's power, wegrow in virtue.
And virtue is just nearness toGod.
It's being filled with God,it's becoming in union with him
through theosis.
So there is a very real again.
(37:28):
Before I judge, it's like beforeI go, before the Eucharist, I
bow three times.
Before I touch the Eucharist, Isay you know, oh God, be
merciful to me, a sinner.
The same thing could happenbefore I go talk to anybody.
I'm encountering an icon ofChrist in this soul, I'm
encountering a child of God.
And I should, in a sense, dothe same thing before I go talk
to someone, especially if I'mgoing to call them out, or
(37:49):
especially if I'm asked tocorrect them in some way.
I need to, in a sense like whatMoses the Black did, right, he
used to literally have abackpack with sand in it and he
would some say water, some saysand.
He would poke a hole in thebottom of it so that everywhere
he walked, a trail of sand wouldfollow behind him and sand
(38:11):
would follow behind him.
And he would always say thesand symbolizes my sin.
So, as you see me walk aroundas your hegemon, never think
that I don't sin, he says, butnotice it's behind me.
I don't always see it.
So basically, I need brothersto call me out.
So if I'm calling you out onyour sin, know that my sin is
just flowing behind me and I mayneed you, as a brother, also to
call that out.
(38:35):
All right, we have five minutesleft Before we go.
Do you want to do a mini topicand have a one quick question?
Sure, okay, we have fiveminutes.
Do we have just one question?
We'll do a mini topic that oneof you may have.
Raise your hand and Kyle willhand somebody that he sees the
microphone.
Thank you One question and thiswill be our mini topic for the
microphone.
Thank you One question and thiswill be our mini topic for the
day.
As that's happening, I do wantto give two quick shout-outs.
Versalto Coffee is who gave usour coffee?
(38:57):
They have a stand in the backover there.
They'll make you the mostamazing coffee.
It's named after Versati.
So I will be going to GiorgioVersati's canonization with
Chris Stefanik.
If you want to go with us, justgo look up Real Life Catholic.
We're going to Georgia forSaudi's canonization with Chris
Stefanik.
If you want to go with us, justgo look up Real Life Catholic.
We're going to go to Italy.
It's going to be amazing.
It's going to be crazy, butit's going to be absolutely
beautiful the Jubilee year inItaly and then for Saudi's
(39:20):
canonization.
Mother and I are also going toEastern Europe.
We're going to Poland.
We're going to Slovakia.
We're going to Poland.
We're going to Slovakia.
We're going to Hungary, to allof our Byzantine shrines.
We're also going to go see JohnPaul II, where he was.
We're going to go to DivineMercy.
We're going to go to Auschwitz,where Maximilian Kolbe was.
We're going to be dwelling thisas well.
So both of those are through206 tours.
If you want to go to either ofthose, please come, talk to us
(39:42):
or find them at 206 tours.
I also want to encourage you,after this, to go to the talk by
Noelle Mehring, who's a reallygood friend of mine.
She's an amazing speaker.
She's talking at 2.15.
You can find it on the schedule.
Speaker 3 (39:54):
She's my friend too.
Speaker 2 (39:55):
Yes, I'm sorry, she's also one of the talkers, but I
knew her first, so ha.
Speaker 3 (39:58):
But she loves me more .
Speaker 1 (40:00):
Question.
I got it.
Hello, my name is GabrielSacasa.
I was just wondering, as aRoman Catholic but who has
deeply come to love the Easterntradition through you guys,
Jonathan Paggio, what arepractical ways that one can
breathe with both lungs, as JP2says?
Speaker 3 (40:16):
The beard is a good first step.
Speaker 2 (40:18):
Thank you.
You're already winning withthat.
Yes, amen, I would say itdepends on what kind of
personality you have.
Maximus the Confessor is kindof our Thomas Aquinas, so read
Maximus the Confessor.
I would also say pray the Jesusprayer.
(40:39):
Lord Jesus Christ, son of God,have mercy on me, sinner, there
are certain things and basicallygo find a parish If there's one
anywhere near you, any one ofthe 24 Eastern Catholic churches
.
Go there, talk to the priest,meet the people, see how they
live, see how their prayer is.
It really is something thatneeds to be experienced.
Speaker 3 (40:59):
Icons is the other thing that I would say.
Learning to pray with icons andanything you can read by
Archbishop Joseph Raya is reallyfantastic.
Archbishop Joseph Raya.
Speaker 2 (41:13):
I'll give you another practical thing too.
One thing that I think we doreally well and this is
something I'm convicting myselfof is, if you have a Bible, put
it in a place of honor in yourroom.
You throw it in your bag, walkaround with it, that's fine, but
treat it with respect.
There's something that we do.
We Byzantines are so sensorythat the Word of God is so
(41:36):
accessible to us and it's on ourphones that we kind of forget.
We don't treat it withreverence and the simple
physical things.
So when you get home from schoolor work and your Bible's in
your backpack have a littlethrone in your room, put it
there and venerate it.
Venerate the Bible and put itthere.
When you have your icons, samething.
Have a special place in yourhome or in your room where you
(41:58):
put the things of reverence.
Icons are windows into heavenand we've lost this because we
have icons on our phones.
We have the Bible on our phones.
Keep on doing that.
But also just take the thingsyou're already using, put them
in a place of honor in your room, venerate them, kiss them,
thank God for them and let thatbe, in a sense, the protection,
the presence of God All right.
(42:19):
Thank you, brother.
Speaker 3 (42:20):
Good to be with you in person.
Speaker 2 (42:21):
All right.
Speaker 3 (42:22):
Yes, since I am not a priest, can you please give
everyone here a blessing, myselfincluded?
Speaker 2 (42:29):
May the Lord bless you and keep you, cause His face
to shine upon you, have mercyon you.
May our Lord soften your heartto His word.
May you have reverence for Hisholy things.
May you, especially if you'rein your leadership, get wisdom
and vulnerability, a truevulnerability that reflects and
imitates Christ's ownvulnerability.
And may those who look to younot abuse or mistreat this.
(42:52):
And if you have ever mistreatedsomeone's vulnerability or
attacked or used it as a weapon,may you be convicted to ask for
forgiveness, first from God andthen also from them.
And may your words be blessed,words of joy in that asking of
forgiveness.
And may you forgive quicklyanybody who has also abused your
(43:12):
vulnerability.
And may this vulnerability thatyou see in your leaders, that
you offer those who look to youfor inspiration, may it be truly
a gift from God and a pathwayto heaven.
May the Lord bless you in thename of the Father and the Son
and the Holy Spirit.
Amen, bless you all.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (43:29):
Thanks for listening to this episode recorded live at
SEEK.
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(43:50):
deeper anytime anywhere.
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