Lesley Wong - Guest Focused Hotel Design (Part 1 of 2) - The Service Center

Episode Transcript
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William Murray (00:00):
Hi there, I'm William Murray. Welcome to the
Service Centre.

Lesley Wong (00:07):
There's nothing nothing like the real life
experience school is greatestablishes the foundation for
you. But that real lifeexperience getting up getting
ready showing up and doing thejob is where I would say I've
learned the most.

If you've been following along with the
podcast, you'll no doubt beaware that the idea of services
many layered and multifaceted.
It's about interpersonalinteractions for sure. But there
are aspects of emotionalintelligence and human
perception, of sociology andpsychology, along with how we
create both a place and spacefor service to flourish.

(00:57):
Now being a hospitalityeducator, one of the core
courses within my staple of workfor a long while now has been
about managing facilities, thebuilding and physical
environment where in whichhospitality services take place.
I use a three point systemjuggling the space as an asset
that has value, the space as asource of revenue that generates

(01:18):
money and profit, as well as thespace within which we create
positive human experiences. So,I was very excited to sit down
for a long conversation withLeslie Wong, an expert and hotel
interior design.
Leslie is a graduate of the NewYork School of interior design
and she grew her talents indesign and construction with the

(01:39):
best of the best - Four SeasonsHotels and Resorts. At the
beginning of 2014, Lesliebranched out on her own opening
Leslie Wong Interiors and putinto place her guest first
design strategies. The companyshe's worked for in design
include Choice Hotels, BestWestern, Hilton, IHG, and many,

(02:00):
many more. Leslie's passion fordesign goes back to her
childhood and early days, whichwe explore as part of her
journey. And honestly, the twoof us kind of geeked out a bit
talking about the power spacehas on human experiences. It was
great fun to welcome Leslie tothe show. I hope you enjoy the
conversation as much as I did.
Let's get right to it. Asalways, my name is William

(02:21):
Murray, and welcome to TheService Center.
Hi, Leslie, it's great to seeyou. It's great to have you on
The Service Center podcast, I'mso thrilled that we get a chance
to talk about design because Ithink design is such an
important part of the entireservice experience. So thanks

(02:45):
for joining me.

Thank you for inviting me.

I think we're going to have an interesting
chat here about the impact thatdesign and space has on on
people, both on guests, and onthe people that work in those
environments. Because we havetwo sets of human beings that
work within an area - we haveour guests, and we also have the
employees and the talent thatlive in that space as well. And

(03:09):
your focus is on creating thesespaces that allow people to
excel and to experience more.
How did you get into design?

Well, the story goes ever since I was a little
girl, I can remember asking mymom for my first Barbie doll.
We're going way back, when whenBarbie dolls were a big thing.
And it wasn't necessarily toplay with the Barbie, but it was
to create spaces for the Barbie.
I would make furniture andaccessories for her out of
cardboard and foil wrappers fromcandy bars. I would make

(03:49):
different kinds of things forthe Barbie and I always wanted
to have a Barbie home. But Imade it myself. So that's where
it started. And then in my early20s, I had my first apartment.
In your early 20s, you know,your life is work, school and
going out. Well, I would foregogoing out so that I could buy

(04:12):
pillows, wallpaper, accessoriesfor my apartment because that
was my focus.
So from an early age, right fromthe get go, I've always been
interested in interior design.
It's always been something thatreally got me stirred up.

Now I have to ask because I do have teenagers.
I always think there are twotypes of teenagers - those that
spend time designing andcurating their room, and those
that do not and it's a bit of amess. Were you a curator of your
bedroom?

Absolutely. I was privileged to have a bigger
bedroom than my sister. And so Ihad had my bed, my nightstands,
my little lamps. I also had roomfor a settee and a coffee table,
and I would spread out my Voguemagazines on it - display it
well. And I had friends comeinto my room and they would
like, "What is this Leslie?". Itwas the beginning of the end.

I had some friends that would curate the
rooms. And whenever I visited Iwould this is a very different
space than the one I just left,where my socks were on the floor
in a corner. And you had acouple of posters hung with with
Mac tack. But yeah, that wasabout it for my design sets. And

(05:37):
then you walk into other spacesand for 15, 16, 17 year olds,
they've done it up, right?

Yeah, that was me.

So what was it like? What kind of feel were you
going for in that room?

So we're talking all good. This I don't want to
date myself entirely. But when Iwas a teenager, I'll say this
and those InDesign will know,sort of like a rose coloured was
in. And a forest green was inand wallpaper was was in. And so
yeah, that was the colourpalette for my room. But, you

(06:15):
know, I was experimental too.
And then I would try, you know,different patterns with colour
and texture. And so yeah, it wasit was a good opportunity. In my
20s, I went a little bit morebold and I went with teals and
burgundys, and then in my mid tolate 20s, I kind of calmed down
a little bit, and everythingwent beige.

The beloved neutral tones that you could
build upon.

Yeah,

Now did you have an inkling at that early time
when you were curating your ownspaces and had an interest for
that, that this could possiblylead to a career?

Definitely not. I grew up in a small northern
Ontario town. And interiordesigners were not around, I
went to Northern Ontario highschool. And you do those
aptitude tests. And the two bestcareer choices for me were
either an interior designer oraccountant. And like, well, I

(07:17):
don't know any interiordesigner, so I might as well be
an accountant. And that's whereI thought I was going to end up.
I'm very good with math, but Ifeel you need to be with
interior design too. So, youknow, it's a bit of a strange
mix.
But I had no influence, so tospeak from someone outside of,

(07:39):
you know, my circle of friendswho was an interior design. And
that was just because we didn'thave access to that kind of
thing. We're small town, smallcommunity. And so when I
eventually moved to Toronto, andhad the opportunity to go to
school and learn and expandmyself, that's when I was really

(08:01):
yeah, this is what I want. Thisis where I should be.

I call that foreshadowing you're teasing
something out there in just howyou set it in that your
environment really doesinfluence how you respond to the
world, and in your environmentsocially, didn't have a lot of
interior designers that wouldhave been influential to you and
in a particular mentoring path.
So that really wouldn't havebeen something that would have

(08:28):
been within your scope ofplausibility.

Yeah.

But when you come to Toronto, your
environment changes.

Yeah. And I remember so glad I did. Because
not to say anything negativeabout small northern Ontario
towns, but Toronto has so muchmore to show and see and find
and the exposure to differentthings is much greater.

And what brought you to Toronto?

Well, in between graduating high school and
moving to Toronto, I actuallywent back to the UK for three
years, and I lived in workthere. And that's where I had my
first apartment. And yeah, Iwent to school a little bit, I
travelled, and really kind oftook that opportunity to figure

(09:18):
myself out what I wanted andwhat I didn't want. And then I
ended up moving back to Canada.
And it was within a year I moveddown to Toronto, from that small
northern town and really haven'tlooked back since.

You talked about going over to Europe, and we
call it - I'm using the airquotes for people because nobody
can see me - of findingourselves.

Yeah.

And you say you you found what you did want but
what you didn't want and Ialways find the second question.
Very interesting. What did youfind that you didn't want?

Well, I can remember thinking you know, this
whole working nine to fivebehind a desk for two weeks off
a year was just like, thatsounds like a hamster wheel to
me. And I'm not the kind ofperson who kind of fits that
mould. I tried. And that's whereit became abundantly clear that
being an accountant was it forme. And this whole concept of

(10:15):
interior design was like, Whoa,I should explore that I should
find out more about what'sinvolved. And it took a little
while to position myself in theright place for that. But once I
did, it was, it was like a nobrainer.

Once people get a taste of what they are
interested, though, they do needto position themselves. We need
to figure out how to on ramp,how to get on that highway, so
that we're heading in the rightdirection? How did you position
yourself to ultimately join theteam at the Four Seasons?

Well, that is a bit of hard work and a little bit of
being in the right place at theright time. Working in Four
Seasons is very much, I wouldsay a prestigious opportunity. A
lot of people work very hard toget there. And I happen to be a
very fortunate enough to bechosen to work there. And I say
that chosen to work therebecause I had to go through

(11:12):
several interviews to get thejob. It's not like one and done
and you're in, it was a process.
And I appreciate that very much.
They're, they're very choosy asto who they bring into their
organisation. And for goodreason to, it has to be a good
fit with everybody else on theirteam. So I went to school a

(11:33):
little bit in study design. Andbeing at Four Seasons, they had
the employer programme where youknow, they would help grow you
and your education and exposureto different things. And so I
took them up on it. And Ilearned a little bit more
continued to grow and worked ondesigning worked in design and

(11:55):
construction for Four Seasons,and partnered with different
architects on differentprojects. And it was really an
eye opening experience. Itreally set me on that path of
this is what I want to do theeducation you're talking about.

Part of that was at with the New York School of
Interior Design.

Yeah, part of it was, yeah, yeah.

How does going to school and being immersed in,
in a school like that, thatfocuses on interior design,
really solidify your direction?
What are the foundational piecesthat you're getting from an
education like that?

That's a great question. Well, I mean, I think
it teaches you the practicalityof it all, what's expected and
how to do it. But there'snothing, nothing like the real
life experience. School isgreat, establishes the
foundation for you. But thatreal life experience getting up
getting ready showing up anddoing the job is where I would

(12:55):
say I've learned the most.

You spent 10 years with Four Seasons. And and
you did say it's a process toget in with them. They are one
of the elite hotel brands forluxury here in Canada. We're
gonna go back on a theme herebecause I think environment
influences us being surroundedby a brand like Four Seasons,

(13:23):
with their expectations indesign, in construction, can't
help but influence you.

Oh, so much.

I'm curious about how that shaped and formed
you. Because that was yourschool, that was your practical
schooling, learning educationshow up every day and do the
job. Billy Joel used to say thisis how we do the gig. And that
was the gig for you is showingup to the Four Seasons and doing

(13:53):
it there. So what were you doingthere? And how did that help
form you?

It touched almost everything. From the moment you
wake up in the morning, you'refixing your hair, you're doing
your makeup, you're you'redressing up like a professional,
whether you meet someone or notat the corporate office, your
dressing like you're about tomeet someone. Very important. I
think that carries through to mein my professional work that I'm

(14:21):
doing as an individual becausenow I dress up and I show up
like I really mean it, but alsoin the practical sense and that
they had high standards. Everydocument had to be look a
certain way. Even walkingthrough the corridors of four
seasons. The carpet was soplush. It was Axminster, and
this is what they did at theircorporate office. And I thought

(14:44):
wow, you know, how much more sothen is the hotel that they're
inviting guests from around theworld into. So everything that
you could see and touch andconnect to had a huge impact on
me because it was at a levelthat you push yourself to

(15:04):
achieve. You're always strivingto achieve that five star luxury
feel in whether it's yourpersonal appearance or your work
habits, your skills. It iscarried me through to now. Yeah.
And you were based in thecorporate office? So you had
just mentioned about theenvironment in the corporate

(15:25):
office.

Sometimes there are brands that have, I call it
design disconnect. Is they willshow front facing to the guests
one design, but at a corporatelevel, or in a heart of house
design area, less so. However,what I'm getting from you is

(15:48):
that the four seasons, even intheir corporate office is
demonstrating through personalpresentation and through design
of space, that five star levelis reflected in everything.

Absolutely. I can remember one time we had a group
from Dubai come in to thecorporate office. And I was
like, Oh, my goodness, you know,these are pretty important
people that are coming in, Idon't, I don't know, do I? Do I
look them in the eye? Do Iscurry away? I didn't know what

(16:21):
to do. And they were impressedby our corporate office. And I
thought, wow, you know, I get towork here every day and is
impressive to someone fromDubai. That's a big deal in my
mind. So yes, the corporateoffice was designed and made to
be an extension of the hotel,because you just didn't know who

(16:46):
was going to show up formeetings, or presentations or
whatever it might be.

And you were working with architects and
other interior designers onspaces for the Four Seasons. And
you did that over a 10 yearperiod working on larger and
larger prop projects. As adesigner, when did you start to

(17:13):
get an itch for going out onyour own and creating designs
that were a little bit more you- that personal expression?

Well, when I was working at Four Seasons, our son
was very young. And I loved myjob so much, I would find myself
working there longer and longerhours, not because they had to,
but because I wanted to. Andthere arises a problem in that,
you know, something's gettingsacrificed, and family was not

(17:51):
the right thing to sacrifice.
And so at that point, I had tosit back and really think, you
know, what am I doing? Where amI? Where am I going? How is this
all impacting the long term ofwhat we do as a family? And I
think it was at that point, Isaid, Okay, well, we moved out

(18:11):
of Toronto to the Durham Region.
And it just made sense for me totake a step back, and reevaluate
where things were going. Sotiming was perfect. And at
first, I thought, well, is thisreally what I want to do maybe

(18:32):
to take some time off, and Idid, it took a little bit of
time for myself for my son, andmy family. But then it was like
- Oh, I can't sit at home and donothing. This is not me, I need
to be busy. I need to getinvolved. And so it was okay,
decorate your home, or decoratea friend's home, or that kind of

(18:53):
thing. And, and I realised No,Leslie, you, you need to keep
moving forward with this. Thisis something that's a passion
for me, it drives me.

We can only move around the furniture in our
house so many times before weneed to paint on a larger
palette.

That's very true.

So in 2014, you opened up Leslie Wong interiors.
I did.
Your own business that youfounded and you are the
principal designer now with anumber of designers who work as
part of your team. When youleave an entity like the Four
Seasons, which would haveinfluenced you, you do get a
chance to express yourself andsay - this is the design that I

(19:35):
will bring to operators and thescope of the businesses that
you'll be working with changes.
But you brought in an idea ofthis "guest first design
strategy". It is in a lot ofwhat you say, in a lot of the
materials that you produce,which is something that
attracted me and open up ourconversations. I want you to

(19:57):
explain what you mean by "guestfirst design strategy".

I guess it's from my perspective, as a guest
walking into your hotel for thefirst time. I get excited when I
go to a new place like a hotel,because it's supposed to be
designed specifically to attractand maintain visitors. That's
the whole purpose of theirbusiness. So I usually get

(20:27):
excited. Oh, what lies behindthese doors? What's over here?
What's over there? What's newfor me to explore? And I get
this sort of bubbled up feelingof excitement walking into a new
space. Now, I know, I'm not likeeverybody. But for those of us
who are like that, you'll getwhat I mean. But from that

(20:47):
perspective of excitement ofwhat lies beyond these doors?
What is here? What is there? Isee myself as the guest, and
what my expectations are? Whatam I looking for from a hotel
stay? Can you meet myexpectations. So that's what the
"guests first design strategy"is really about. Seeing things

(21:11):
from the guest perspective -what I guess needs to make it a
great stay.

There was an article out of the Harvard
Business Review, I believe, was2010. And the premise of the
article, and then at the titleof the article was Stop Trying
to Delight Your Guests. Theauthor was writing about meeting
guest expectations first,instead of always trying to
exceed. And in that article, theauthor points out that it was

(21:40):
the 89% of hotel operators andowners have a strategy of
exceeding guest expectations ineverything that they do, and 87%
of guests, in their last serviceexperience did not have
experiences that exceededexpectation. And so the author
was talking about the idea ofmake sure that you're meeting

(22:01):
those guest focused expectationsfirst. And you refer to it as as
making guests feel good andmaking it feel like it was
designed just for them. There'sa feeling in your approach for
design. The idea of feeling istricky for us to unpack here,
because it's very complicated.
But how should guests feel in aspace?

I guess it's slightly different for whether
you're female traveller, maletraveller and business
traveller, family traveller. Foreach group, there's some slight
differences. But in general, Ithink of the... I think of the
program Cheers in the 80s, wherethey would open the door and

(22:45):
they would shout the person'sname.

NORM!

Hey, exactly. And, you know, it's your home away
from home kind of thing, right.
And that's what plays in my mindwhen I think of how does someone
feel, or get to feel welcome, orimportant, or special in some
way. And it's those littletouches from the very first

(23:07):
exchange of smiles, not even...
you don't even have the key yetto your guest room. But it's Hi,
Welcome to our Hotel! How wasyour say? Or how was your
flight? How was your trip? Youknow, is there anything that I
can get for you, which is like abottle of water?

(23:27):
All those little things, Ithink, start that emotional
connection when you interactwith someone. But if we take a
step back, even the colours, thetextures, the sound, the feel
when you walk into the spacebefore you even reach the
reception desk has an impact onyou.

(23:49):
So we recently did a project inThunder Bay, and it was a young
hip urbanite sort of hotel feelthat they wanted, and it was
bright colours, and clunkyfabrics and neat furniture and,
and that attracted a certainkind of person. And they'll feel
a certain kind of way when theywalk into that space. But say, a

(24:12):
weary family traveller... well,they're looking for something a
little bit more calm, a littlebit more subdued, a little bit
more family friendly engagement,before they hit that reception
desk. And so you have to appealto a variety of traveller, a
variety of guests. And so thatcan be tricky. So knowing how

(24:35):
design impacts a guest is it'sreally important area of study,
I think,

How much time are you spending with the hotel
operators, their marketing team,to really understand who their
target markets are, who theircustomer is and what their
customers looking for, as partof your design process?

Well, we do have an interview that we do with say
hotels owners and the brand thatthey might be affiliated with.
And we'll talk about things likewell, who's your ideal guest?
Who is your current guest? Whowould you like to market to? Is
there a difference between thetwo? What do you think they're
looking for? What are youwilling to offer them? How can

(25:16):
we give them that but alsoenhance, so that you're ahead of
the curve, or in the good partof the curve? It's tricky with
designing a hotel, because wetalked about the design curve
and being ahead of the curve.
But by the time you implement adesign, it can be 6, 12, 18
months later, so the curve hasalready shifted a little bit.

(25:37):
But going through thoseinterview questions to find out
who their ideal guest is, it'sdefinitely a great starting
point, because every hotel isdifferent. There's some that
I've worked on that areprimarily servicing families and
hockey teams, lacrosse teams,and then others that are
servicing more airporttravellers. Knowing your guest

(25:58):
is very important to the startof the design process.

I was talking to a hotelier yesterday on a
different conversation, and hewas saying that he recently in
some of his hotels had a lot ofsports teams and hockey teams.
And he was talking about thestate of his hallways. And I was
thinking forward to ourconversation today. I wonder if
Leslie has any ideas on how todesign hallways that are more
durable for hockey travellers?

I think you clad them in tile and call it a day!

They take some abuse, they do!

They do, they do. I mean, we have standard things
like corner guards and 20 ouncewall vinyl weight. But if you've
got a 10 year old kid with ahockey stick that's flailing
around, well, things happen.

You do the best you can?

Yeah, yeah.

A lot of your work, I would assume is trying
to bring together functionality.
Because a lot of hoteliers thatyou're working with will have a
very functional approach. I needthis space to operate with my
guests in a certain way. We'redealing with a standardised
footprint. It's a double slabdesign, what not, very

(27:13):
functional space. And then youget to bring your experience of
form. How do you see form andfunction coming together to
impact that human experience?

Well, I think textures and textiles and things
that we touch, obviously are ahuge point of interest in that I
think that's where you know, youyou've got the practical
casegoods of a hotel guestroom,for example. But how does it
feel to touch it? Does it looknice to approach do you want to

(27:51):
touch it? Is it something thatlooks easy to clean? Maintain?
Well, from a practicalstandpoint, but also from, I
guess, experience standpoint?
You know, do I feel as if thisroom is cleaned regularly? And
does it pass my white glovetest? Right. So I think
definitely the materials we useas one way of connecting that
form and function.

Well, that's a good place to press pause with
Lesley. Just in telling herstory, she shared so many neat
ideas and lessons - from theimportance of finding your
circle of like-minded people, togetting real life experience

(28:37):
doing the work. For me, the ideaof purposely designing yourself
as a professional and how youintentionally get ready every
morning was powerful. Thathammered home that our
environments as individuals arethe start of everything. If you
enjoyed this episode, take amoment to give it a bit of love.
Share it with your network, apost send it over to a
colleague, and of course, likecomment, leave a review wherever

(29:00):
you are listening. The ServiceCenter podcast is hosted and
produced by me, William Murray,and our cover is created by Jack
Designs. Thanks for choosing tospend your time here and I
invite you back for more guests,stories, and service insights on
the next episode of The ServiceCenter.

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Lesley Wong - Guest Focused Hotel Design (Part 1 of 2)

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