July 15, 2025 • 19 mins
Are you an addict or a selfish womanizer? Historically, it’s been said that you are either one of the two. But, is it really only limited to these two options?
What if you’re neither?What if you are a selfish womanizer?What if you’re both?
Is the treatment the same?If not, what’s different?
Does your wife need to be worried?If you’re not an addict, should she leave you?
Sex Addict or A-hole? In this episode, I discuss a third option.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Addict
or asshole?
You are listening to the sex addiction podcast
for high achievers, business professionals, executives, and entrepreneurs.
This podcast is designed to apply sobriety and
recovery principles
specifically to the mindset of the high achiever.
I'm your host, Roland Cochran, founder of The
Successful Addict, a recovery group for high achieving
(00:23):
men struggling with sex and porn addiction. For
more information about joining our group or attending
our next retreat, visit successfuladdict.com.
And now, enjoy the rest of the episode.
There's this debate in the sex addiction field.
You know, a lot of it's driven by
the betrayed partners. Right? Is my husband a
sex addict or is he an asshole?
(00:44):
And,
I'm gonna kinda clear up those two definitions
for those who haven't really heard this argument.
Right? So, you know, there's an addict. Right?
Somebody who has become chemically addicted
to, you know, in the case of sex
and pornography,
chemically addicted to dopamine. Right? So they are
addicted
to the dopamine that comes from sexually acting
out. And then there's the asshole. Right? And
(01:05):
the philosophy of the asshole is that he
is,
entitled to getting his sexual needs met however
he wants to get them met. Right? That
he is, he's just gonna go and do
these things. He's gonna hide them from his
partner. He's gonna lie to his partner,
and he feels, you know, the right to
do this. Right? So that would be what
people would call an asshole.
Okay. Well, I'm gonna introduce kind of a
(01:27):
a third option here. Now I wanna clear
this up by saying I'm not anti sex
addict. There are definitely men who are chemically
addicted to the dopamine from sex and pornography.
And then I'm also not anti asshole. There
are assholes out there who just act like
assholes. Okay? So I'm not saying that that
you're not gonna find one of the two
of those, but I wanna introduce a third
(01:47):
option. But let's kinda like walk through all
three here. First, let's talk about a sex
addict. Right? How do you know you're an
addict? How do you know your husband's an
addict?
So a sex addict would be some again,
by definition, somebody who's become chemically dependent, addicted
to
dopamine from, sexually acting out. So this would
be,
dopamine is responsible. It's not pleasure. A lot
(02:08):
of people don't know that. It actually it
does not provide us pleasure. Dopamine is for
focus and motivation.
So when somebody
uses something,
dopaminergic,
their focus and motivation goes on it. Right?
So if there is a, you know, important
work project that you're trying to complete,
you'll dopamine will be released for you to
be motivated and focused to complete the project.
(02:28):
So dopamine itself isn't isn't bad. And if
you actually don't have it, you have Parkinson's.
That's what Parkinson's
is. You know? So we need dopamine. We
need no dopamine to live.
However, dopamine, because it's responsible for focus and
motivation,
what the brain can sometimes figure out is
it will engage in this in this certain
practice or behavior,
(02:49):
and it'll get dopamine, and it will capture
their focus and motivation. So what's that do?
It pulls it off of other things. It
takes your attention away
from everything else. And the more dopaminergic
the thing is,
the more your brain's gonna become captivated by
it. And again, why why do people get
addicted to these things that release dopamine? Well,
(03:09):
if if they don't like
the things around them, they don't like the
feelings, the thoughts, they don't like the deadlines,
they don't like the stress, whatever it is,
If they don't like the negativity, the negative
emotions or thoughts or feelings,
they'll do something dopaminergic. And during that time
that they're doing it, the negative thoughts and
feelings are gone. Right? Because if this thing's
really dopaminergic, such as sex and pornography, because
(03:31):
sex is so captivating, you know,
it activates
us because it is a biological need and
a biological desire,
you know, for reproduction. It captivates, you know,
parts of our body that, you know, very
few things do. Right? So it's very dopaminergic
to,
you know, to
engage in in sexual acting out. So it
it hijacks all your your brain's focus and
(03:53):
motivation and pulls it all the way to
the sexual acting out. So it's very, very,
very effective.
Now, again, so that would that would be
a sex addict, a porn addict. So this
would be somebody who's truly addicted to it.
Right? So when they are in need of
dopamine, in need for an escape. Right? Because
that's kind of the hallmark of, a dopaminergic
practice is it's escaping
your life. It's escaping these emotions. It's escaping
(04:15):
the stressors. It's it's this it's this escape,
this release. Right?
I don't like my life. I don't like
my job. I don't like,
who I am. I don't like the way
I look. Right? It's all all this, like,
negativity.
It's a way to kinda get away from
that. Now,
the
on this topic, though,
I don't think
(04:36):
all men are sex addicts and porn addicts.
In fact, I actually think it's less
men than than more men. I really do.
I don't I I again, we don't have
studies to yet to prove what's driving these
men, their their unwanted sexual behavior.
But again, I I, there are men who
do hate,
their life themselves,
(04:58):
their the way they look,
their their marriage, their job, whatever, and then
they want to escape their life. But there's
also men who, who who really love their
job. They love their careers. They love who
they are. They love themselves.
They don't have a lot of this,
like, emotional
unregulation.
And so they're not necessarily
using sex and pornography to emotionally regulate.
(05:20):
Again, so so, you know, another way that
I would say, you know, to kind of
challenge the whole addict asshole thing is, you
know, of a guy who's had, like, three,
you know, one affair and two one night
stands over the past, like, two years.
Is he an addict? It's kinda like saying,
the person who drinks, you know, who has,
you know, drinks to drunkenness
(05:40):
at weddings and, you know, goes out with
their friends and and drinks to, you know,
kind of dance, have a good time. You
know, is that person an alcoholic?
You know, because, you know, one time a
month or two times a month, they're they're
drinking to to drunkenness and and and having
fun with their friends. Is that person an
alcoholic?
The the definitions that I have seen from
alcoholism,
that actually doesn't meet that definition
(06:01):
necessarily. Right? So so like that, are we
are we making men sex addicts, porn addicts
who are not addicts?
And again, it's not semantics. It's you know,
a lot of people are like, oh, why
does it matter what we call it? Well,
it does though because it affects the treatment.
You know, the the bulk of the treatment
in the sex and porn addiction space, because
we've chosen to call it sex and porn
(06:22):
addiction, the bulk of the treatment,
strategies are addiction treatment strategies.
And so for the man who's truly addicted
to pornography and sex,
you know, if he's really addicted, he can't
stop, he's addicted to it,
then, yes, those treatments would work. And we
actually do see that. You know, for me
personally, about, I don't know, twenty percent of
(06:42):
my compulsive behaviors,
unwanted behaviors
came from addiction
to sex sex and pornography. So when I
got into treatment,
twenty percent of my acting out behaviors did
actually go, you know, go away. They did
reduce with those treatments. But, again,
eighty percent of them stayed there.
And that you know, and it was frustrating
(07:02):
me. It was frustrating my wife, but that's
because it's not just an addiction. Some guys
might not have an addiction at all. So
then are the treatments gonna be effective whatsoever?
So let's let's kind of pop over to
the asshole.
Now,
you know, the the asshole. Right? This is
a man who's getting his his sexual needs
met outside of the marriage. He's not necessarily
(07:23):
addicted. He can kinda stop. You know, if
you told him to stop and force him
to stop, he could stop.
So again, he's not an addict. And this
is a lot of the guys in my
in my groups. You know? I would say
two guys in each group actually have some
addictive, dopaminergic,
addictive,
trends to their behavior. But a lot of
the guys in my groups, you know, once
(07:44):
they got caught, they got sober. They got
sober quick. And then acting out again really,
really wasn't that it wasn't that hard for
them to stop acting out. You know, it
it it wasn't like this challenge. And again,
it was it's because they weren't addicted. Right?
So then, again, that that begs the question.
So then Roland, they're just assholes. Well, I
don't know about that. Now kinda hear me
(08:04):
out here.
An asshole to me would be somebody who
truly just doesn't care about any but anybody
but themselves. They're just gonna kinda do whatever.
They they they just want pleasure now and,
they don't really care about what the consequences
are. They're just gonna kinda do the thing,
and they're kinda this way in a lot
of areas of their life. They just don't
(08:24):
really care. You know? Is is the person
a narcissist? I don't I don't know if
we necessarily need to call them that, but,
you know, they they just don't have a
lot of consideration for other people and the
ramification of their actions. So, okay, you could
call that person an asshole, I suppose. But
let's look at this from a little bit
of a deeper a bigger perspective here.
A lot of the guys in my groups
(08:44):
then would fall into that category of asshole,
myself included.
And,
I don't know if that's a great word
to call them. I mean, these men, when
they come into my groups, they are in
tears at least somebody's in tears every week,
over what they have done to their wives.
I mean, these men are these men regret
their actions. A lot of them are ashamed.
A lot of them never told anyone, not
(09:05):
even their best friends, about what they were
doing. They hid this from everyone. There was
so much shame. They knew that this would
destroy their reputations. This would destroy their marriage,
destroy their relationships.
You know, if their kids found out, their
kids would lose all respect for them. They
may never speak to them again. Right? So
these men were aware of that, and then
they did it anyways.
Right? And this and this kind of rings
true with compulsivity. Right? If you look at,
(09:27):
you know, compulsivity,
the people somebody who's compulsive
isn't chemically addicted per se, but they do
things that are against their morals and values.
And they know they are, but they can't
help it. They end up doing it. But
again, they're not addicted in the sense that
they aren't chemically dependent on it. Now again,
why does that matter? Because the treatments are
different. The treatments are different for somebody who's
(09:47):
addicted versus somebody who's not. Okay? It was
just me a bit of a different treatment
approach there. So, to but to expand on
this,
if we look at these men who are
assholes,
the the problem is,
why are they doing this behavior and why
can't they and why can't they stop themselves
even though they know they don't wanna do
it? You know, it's usually not until they
(10:08):
get caught when they when they finally say,
okay. Crap. I can't do this anymore.
Well, because they see value
in the behavior.
So in the case of, you know, an
affair or flirting,
you know, they're getting this they're getting this
exchange from this individual. You know, for a
lot of the guys in my group groups
and myself, you know, it's a lot of
attention, validation. Right? They they want to feel
(10:31):
special. They wanna feel chosen. They wanna feel
lusted after. They want, you know, men to
envy them. They want women to wanna be
with them. Right? So it's it's a process
that they really have become compulsive around to
where they're chasing these these narratives, these these
these brain stories. And so they're trying to
get that met however they however they can.
You know, the truth is a lot of
their compulsivity actually shows up not sexually. It
(10:53):
also shows up,
at work with trying to win awards, win
big contracts,
become number one in their company. Right? So
again, they're chasing these stories of feeling wanted,
lusted
after,
chosen, special,
whatever their particular,
process is they're chasing. So again, are they
an asshole because they're chasing those things? Again,
I think that's kind of up to you
(11:15):
to decide.
I actually
I don't I don't think that that chasing
those things makes them an asshole, and here's
why.
I think high achieving men,
you know, one of their greatest gifts is
that they are a shape shifter. They are
chameleons. They they can read people and then
they can become whoever they need to become
to please that person, to win their trust,
(11:36):
to win their,
their their friendship, whatever it is. They're very,
very good at that, and that is why
these men are typically really good in business
is they can shape shift and become whatever
they need to become to get the desired
result. Right? And that's great for business. The
challenge is
every time we do that, we are we
are at times, potentially, violating our morals and
(11:57):
values. Right? So if if we shift into
a chameleon and shape shift into a guy
who can impress others. Right? And his objective
is, again, to make as many men jealous
of him and make as many women wish
that they could be with him. If that's
truly his objective in that moment, when he
shape shifts into that guy, he's gonna start
acting like that guy. And part of that
recipe could be flirting,
(12:19):
could be courting and and pursuing these women,
and maybe eventually, potentially sleeping with with one
of them or some of them. Okay? And
so, again, the motive though was to be
seen as this guy who has no limits,
this guy who can get any woman that
he wants, this guy who,
you know, really lives up to the men
(12:40):
we see on TV. Right? The music videos
we see on TV of the successful men,
being lusted after and wanted and having everybody
kind of admire him and, wish they could
be around him, wish they could date him,
wish they could sleep with him. So, you
know, again, I I I don't necessarily call
these men assholes. What I think is, you
know, if you're gonna call these guys assholes,
that's fine. But where are they getting this
(13:02):
data?
Where did they get the desire to
make every guy envious of them? Where did
they get the desire to have all these,
you know, attractive women lust after them and
and want where did they get this? They
got it from television. They got it from
movies. They got it from,
from their from their peers, from upper class
men or or men they admired.
(13:23):
You know, I always say the higher you
climb a lot of bit a lot of
industries, when you get up into the upper
categories of of industries,
I've been I've been in the in the
upper tier of six different industries. In every
single one of them, the higher you climb,
the less faithful the men become.
And, you know, there's something there. You know?
And again, I just I don't believe it's
(13:43):
because they are assholes.
I believe that, you know, we're seeing this
amongst so many men in those upper tiers.
There's something going on amongst successful male culture,
primarily
in America. Right? There's this overemphasis on,
becoming the best, the best you can be.
And unfortunately, a lot of that has to
do with how many attractive women can you
(14:04):
sleep with? How many women how many women
want you? Right? How many options do you
have is is kind of how the the
the most successful men men are being portrayed
on television.
So this third option that I want to
inject into this rather than asshole or addict
is the concept that this person is,
misinformed,
(14:25):
insecure,
and has lost their sense of self.
And they are just desperate to matter. They're
desperate to to be significant. They're desperate to,
you know, whatever
society you know, because because think about it.
That's what a high achiever is. Right? A
high achiever is somebody who achieves achieves hard
things. Well, how does a high achiever know
what to achieve? They look around and they
say, what does my country what what do
(14:47):
people here consider
hard to achieve, hard to accomplish? Well, predominantly,
it's money and sleeping with extremely attractive, you
know, you know, considered, hard to sleep with
women. Right? So then the more money you
get because it's hard to get, as society
has said, and then the more women you
can sleep with because they're hard to sleep
with,
you must be this accomplished
(15:07):
high achiever. Right? And so to me,
when we lose our sense of self and
we start to try to matter and we
start relying on the influences around us, the
the the definitions of society, the things we
see on TV, the, you know, what we
what we feel like people in the world
care about and value,
which is money and sex, just is. Like,
that's just kind of the world we live
in right now.
(15:28):
You know, these men are more of a
byproduct
of of the world around them. I I
don't think asshole is the right word. What
I would describe is,
sad,
insecure,
lost.
That's how I would describe myself in these
men. You know, I think when we did
a lot of things that we did, you
know, the motive was not to be bad.
The motive was not to do bad things.
(15:49):
And motive was not to hurt ourselves, and
it certainly wasn't to hurt our life partner
and the person that we love most. At
least it wasn't for me.
My motive was to matter, was to be
somebody. And,
I was led to believe that it didn't
matter. I was led to believe that I
needed to be better and better and better
every day. And that was what the culture
kinda told me. The most impressive guy in
(16:10):
the room is the guy who's accomplished
the most. And, you know, unfortunately,
as the world has evolved, a lot of
that has to do with how much how
how big is your house, how nice how
nice is your car, how hot is your
wife, and how much money you got. I
mean, that's just really kind of how we've
defined
success, which is really sad because none of
those things actually really matter. In fact, pursuing
those things usually results in the destruction of
(16:31):
your life and a lot less happiness than
it does in more happiness. So I say
all this to say,
addict, asshole,
again, you know,
the challenge that I have with this debate
is
guys don't wanna be assholes, so they force
themselves to be addicts. Right? Because it's like,
oh, man. If I'm just an asshole, my
wife's gonna leave me. If I'm just an
(16:53):
asshole, I I can't get treatment because I'm
an asshole. Right? So there's there's no addiction
treatment to get. And again, I think I
think the problem with having those be the
only two options on the table is
they have to be addicts, and therefore, they
may go get treated like addicts and pretend
to be addicts.
But what if they're not addicts? Now they're
not getting treated.
And I think I personally believe this is
(17:13):
why we see the the recovery rate so
low at thirty four percent and the relapse
rate so high at, you know,
you know,
over almost seventy percent. And the reason we
see this is I believe men are not
necessarily
all addicts.
I don't I think some of them might
have a little bit of an addict into
them, maybe some more than others. But I
(17:34):
think when we treat them like addicts and
they just get addiction treatment and the focus
is just on sex and porn being used
to emotionally regulate,
you know, I think we're missing the mark
here. I think we're missing,
men using women to enhance their self worth,
men men fishing for compliments, validation, attention,
to feel superior,
(17:54):
to feel like they matter, to impress others.
You know, I think, you know, that's not
addiction. That's just called faulty brain processes
that these men adopted that they need to
change. So again,
why does this matter? Because I think if
men are just getting addiction treatment and they're
not addicts,
I don't think they're gonna get the results
that they want. I don't think their spouses
(18:15):
are gonna see the recovery that they want.
Right? So I think we do need to
examine all of the things, all of the
things that have entered our brain over the
years,
and start assessing, you know, how much of
this is contributing to my compulsive behavior and
my desperation to basically compromise my values
so that I can get these, little little
hits of attention, validation,
(18:36):
superiority, accomplishment,
you know, whatever it is that you've become
compulsive around. So again,
I don't know if asshole is the right
word. I think, insecure.
I think,
unsure. I think lost. I think
feeling behind. I think feeling inadequate, like you're
not enough yet. You know, I think there's
a lot of other things
that describe these men better that make them
(18:58):
act the way that they act. Again, I
think I think asshole is a little harsh,
and I think it's gonna actually harm their
recovery if we only pin them in these
two options, addict arrest.
Thanks for listening to this episode. If you
are a high achiever with a sex addiction
and you're looking for a recovery group full
of like minded men, visit successfuladdict.com.
We provide men with a recovery mastermind group
(19:19):
using four day retreats,
weekly group calls, and daily accountability check ins.
If you wanna achieve long term sobriety and
save your marriage, go to our website and
fill out our application. If you enjoyed this
episode, please pass it along to a friend
in recovery who would benefit from listening. It
is my mission to get this information out
to as many high achievers as possible, and
I can't do it without your help.
Addict
or asshole?
You are listening to the sex addiction podcast
for high achievers, business professionals, executives, and entrepreneurs.
This podcast is designed to apply sobriety and
recovery principles
specifically to the mindset of the high achiever.
I'm your host, Roland Cochran, founder of The
Successful Addict, a recovery group for high achieving
(00:23):
men struggling with sex and porn addiction. For
more information about joining our group or attending
our next retreat, visit successfuladdict.com.
And now, enjoy the rest of the episode.
There's this debate in the sex addiction field.
You know, a lot of it's driven by
the betrayed partners. Right? Is my husband a
sex addict or is he an asshole?
(00:44):
And,
I'm gonna kinda clear up those two definitions
for those who haven't really heard this argument.
Right? So, you know, there's an addict. Right?
Somebody who has become chemically addicted
to, you know, in the case of sex
and pornography,
chemically addicted to dopamine. Right? So they are
addicted
to the dopamine that comes from sexually acting
out. And then there's the asshole. Right? And
(01:05):
the philosophy of the asshole is that he
is,
entitled to getting his sexual needs met however
he wants to get them met. Right? That
he is, he's just gonna go and do
these things. He's gonna hide them from his
partner. He's gonna lie to his partner,
and he feels, you know, the right to
do this. Right? So that would be what
people would call an asshole.
Okay. Well, I'm gonna introduce kind of a
(01:27):
a third option here. Now I wanna clear
this up by saying I'm not anti sex
addict. There are definitely men who are chemically
addicted to the dopamine from sex and pornography.
And then I'm also not anti asshole. There
are assholes out there who just act like
assholes. Okay? So I'm not saying that that
you're not gonna find one of the two
of those, but I wanna introduce a third
(01:47):
option. But let's kinda like walk through all
three here. First, let's talk about a sex
addict. Right? How do you know you're an
addict? How do you know your husband's an
addict?
So a sex addict would be some again,
by definition, somebody who's become chemically dependent, addicted
to
dopamine from, sexually acting out. So this would
be,
dopamine is responsible. It's not pleasure. A lot
(02:08):
of people don't know that. It actually it
does not provide us pleasure. Dopamine is for
focus and motivation.
So when somebody
uses something,
dopaminergic,
their focus and motivation goes on it. Right?
So if there is a, you know, important
work project that you're trying to complete,
you'll dopamine will be released for you to
be motivated and focused to complete the project.
(02:28):
So dopamine itself isn't isn't bad. And if
you actually don't have it, you have Parkinson's.
That's what Parkinson's
is. You know? So we need dopamine. We
need no dopamine to live.
However, dopamine, because it's responsible for focus and
motivation,
what the brain can sometimes figure out is
it will engage in this in this certain
practice or behavior,
(02:49):
and it'll get dopamine, and it will capture
their focus and motivation. So what's that do?
It pulls it off of other things. It
takes your attention away
from everything else. And the more dopaminergic
the thing is,
the more your brain's gonna become captivated by
it. And again, why why do people get
addicted to these things that release dopamine? Well,
(03:09):
if if they don't like
the things around them, they don't like the
feelings, the thoughts, they don't like the deadlines,
they don't like the stress, whatever it is,
If they don't like the negativity, the negative
emotions or thoughts or feelings,
they'll do something dopaminergic. And during that time
that they're doing it, the negative thoughts and
feelings are gone. Right? Because if this thing's
really dopaminergic, such as sex and pornography, because
(03:31):
sex is so captivating, you know,
it activates
us because it is a biological need and
a biological desire,
you know, for reproduction. It captivates, you know,
parts of our body that, you know, very
few things do. Right? So it's very dopaminergic
to,
you know, to
engage in in sexual acting out. So it
it hijacks all your your brain's focus and
(03:53):
motivation and pulls it all the way to
the sexual acting out. So it's very, very,
very effective.
Now, again, so that would that would be
a sex addict, a porn addict. So this
would be somebody who's truly addicted to it.
Right? So when they are in need of
dopamine, in need for an escape. Right? Because
that's kind of the hallmark of, a dopaminergic
practice is it's escaping
your life. It's escaping these emotions. It's escaping
(04:15):
the stressors. It's it's this it's this escape,
this release. Right?
I don't like my life. I don't like
my job. I don't like,
who I am. I don't like the way
I look. Right? It's all all this, like,
negativity.
It's a way to kinda get away from
that. Now,
the
on this topic, though,
I don't think
(04:36):
all men are sex addicts and porn addicts.
In fact, I actually think it's less
men than than more men. I really do.
I don't I I again, we don't have
studies to yet to prove what's driving these
men, their their unwanted sexual behavior.
But again, I I, there are men who
do hate,
their life themselves,
(04:58):
their the way they look,
their their marriage, their job, whatever, and then
they want to escape their life. But there's
also men who, who who really love their
job. They love their careers. They love who
they are. They love themselves.
They don't have a lot of this,
like, emotional
unregulation.
And so they're not necessarily
using sex and pornography to emotionally regulate.
(05:20):
Again, so so, you know, another way that
I would say, you know, to kind of
challenge the whole addict asshole thing is, you
know, of a guy who's had, like, three,
you know, one affair and two one night
stands over the past, like, two years.
Is he an addict? It's kinda like saying,
the person who drinks, you know, who has,
you know, drinks to drunkenness
(05:40):
at weddings and, you know, goes out with
their friends and and drinks to, you know,
kind of dance, have a good time. You
know, is that person an alcoholic?
You know, because, you know, one time a
month or two times a month, they're they're
drinking to to drunkenness and and and having
fun with their friends. Is that person an
alcoholic?
The the definitions that I have seen from
alcoholism,
that actually doesn't meet that definition
(06:01):
necessarily. Right? So so like that, are we
are we making men sex addicts, porn addicts
who are not addicts?
And again, it's not semantics. It's you know,
a lot of people are like, oh, why
does it matter what we call it? Well,
it does though because it affects the treatment.
You know, the the bulk of the treatment
in the sex and porn addiction space, because
we've chosen to call it sex and porn
(06:22):
addiction, the bulk of the treatment,
strategies are addiction treatment strategies.
And so for the man who's truly addicted
to pornography and sex,
you know, if he's really addicted, he can't
stop, he's addicted to it,
then, yes, those treatments would work. And we
actually do see that. You know, for me
personally, about, I don't know, twenty percent of
(06:42):
my compulsive behaviors,
unwanted behaviors
came from addiction
to sex sex and pornography. So when I
got into treatment,
twenty percent of my acting out behaviors did
actually go, you know, go away. They did
reduce with those treatments. But, again,
eighty percent of them stayed there.
And that you know, and it was frustrating
(07:02):
me. It was frustrating my wife, but that's
because it's not just an addiction. Some guys
might not have an addiction at all. So
then are the treatments gonna be effective whatsoever?
So let's let's kind of pop over to
the asshole.
Now,
you know, the the asshole. Right? This is
a man who's getting his his sexual needs
met outside of the marriage. He's not necessarily
(07:23):
addicted. He can kinda stop. You know, if
you told him to stop and force him
to stop, he could stop.
So again, he's not an addict. And this
is a lot of the guys in my
in my groups. You know? I would say
two guys in each group actually have some
addictive, dopaminergic,
addictive,
trends to their behavior. But a lot of
the guys in my groups, you know, once
(07:44):
they got caught, they got sober. They got
sober quick. And then acting out again really,
really wasn't that it wasn't that hard for
them to stop acting out. You know, it
it it wasn't like this challenge. And again,
it was it's because they weren't addicted. Right?
So then, again, that that begs the question.
So then Roland, they're just assholes. Well, I
don't know about that. Now kinda hear me
(08:04):
out here.
An asshole to me would be somebody who
truly just doesn't care about any but anybody
but themselves. They're just gonna kinda do whatever.
They they they just want pleasure now and,
they don't really care about what the consequences
are. They're just gonna kinda do the thing,
and they're kinda this way in a lot
of areas of their life. They just don't
(08:24):
really care. You know? Is is the person
a narcissist? I don't I don't know if
we necessarily need to call them that, but,
you know, they they just don't have a
lot of consideration for other people and the
ramification of their actions. So, okay, you could
call that person an asshole, I suppose. But
let's look at this from a little bit
of a deeper a bigger perspective here.
A lot of the guys in my groups
(08:44):
then would fall into that category of asshole,
myself included.
And,
I don't know if that's a great word
to call them. I mean, these men, when
they come into my groups, they are in
tears at least somebody's in tears every week,
over what they have done to their wives.
I mean, these men are these men regret
their actions. A lot of them are ashamed.
A lot of them never told anyone, not
(09:05):
even their best friends, about what they were
doing. They hid this from everyone. There was
so much shame. They knew that this would
destroy their reputations. This would destroy their marriage,
destroy their relationships.
You know, if their kids found out, their
kids would lose all respect for them. They
may never speak to them again. Right? So
these men were aware of that, and then
they did it anyways.
Right? And this and this kind of rings
true with compulsivity. Right? If you look at,
(09:27):
you know, compulsivity,
the people somebody who's compulsive
isn't chemically addicted per se, but they do
things that are against their morals and values.
And they know they are, but they can't
help it. They end up doing it. But
again, they're not addicted in the sense that
they aren't chemically dependent on it. Now again,
why does that matter? Because the treatments are
different. The treatments are different for somebody who's
(09:47):
addicted versus somebody who's not. Okay? It was
just me a bit of a different treatment
approach there. So, to but to expand on
this,
if we look at these men who are
assholes,
the the problem is,
why are they doing this behavior and why
can't they and why can't they stop themselves
even though they know they don't wanna do
it? You know, it's usually not until they
(10:08):
get caught when they when they finally say,
okay. Crap. I can't do this anymore.
Well, because they see value
in the behavior.
So in the case of, you know, an
affair or flirting,
you know, they're getting this they're getting this
exchange from this individual. You know, for a
lot of the guys in my group groups
and myself, you know, it's a lot of
attention, validation. Right? They they want to feel
(10:31):
special. They wanna feel chosen. They wanna feel
lusted after. They want, you know, men to
envy them. They want women to wanna be
with them. Right? So it's it's a process
that they really have become compulsive around to
where they're chasing these these narratives, these these
these brain stories. And so they're trying to
get that met however they however they can.
You know, the truth is a lot of
their compulsivity actually shows up not sexually. It
(10:53):
also shows up,
at work with trying to win awards, win
big contracts,
become number one in their company. Right? So
again, they're chasing these stories of feeling wanted,
lusted
after,
chosen, special,
whatever their particular,
process is they're chasing. So again, are they
an asshole because they're chasing those things? Again,
I think that's kind of up to you
(11:15):
to decide.
I actually
I don't I don't think that that chasing
those things makes them an asshole, and here's
why.
I think high achieving men,
you know, one of their greatest gifts is
that they are a shape shifter. They are
chameleons. They they can read people and then
they can become whoever they need to become
to please that person, to win their trust,
(11:36):
to win their,
their their friendship, whatever it is. They're very,
very good at that, and that is why
these men are typically really good in business
is they can shape shift and become whatever
they need to become to get the desired
result. Right? And that's great for business. The
challenge is
every time we do that, we are we
are at times, potentially, violating our morals and
(11:57):
values. Right? So if if we shift into
a chameleon and shape shift into a guy
who can impress others. Right? And his objective
is, again, to make as many men jealous
of him and make as many women wish
that they could be with him. If that's
truly his objective in that moment, when he
shape shifts into that guy, he's gonna start
acting like that guy. And part of that
recipe could be flirting,
(12:19):
could be courting and and pursuing these women,
and maybe eventually, potentially sleeping with with one
of them or some of them. Okay? And
so, again, the motive though was to be
seen as this guy who has no limits,
this guy who can get any woman that
he wants, this guy who,
you know, really lives up to the men
(12:40):
we see on TV. Right? The music videos
we see on TV of the successful men,
being lusted after and wanted and having everybody
kind of admire him and, wish they could
be around him, wish they could date him,
wish they could sleep with him. So, you
know, again, I I I don't necessarily call
these men assholes. What I think is, you
know, if you're gonna call these guys assholes,
that's fine. But where are they getting this
(13:02):
data?
Where did they get the desire to
make every guy envious of them? Where did
they get the desire to have all these,
you know, attractive women lust after them and
and want where did they get this? They
got it from television. They got it from
movies. They got it from,
from their from their peers, from upper class
men or or men they admired.
(13:23):
You know, I always say the higher you
climb a lot of bit a lot of
industries, when you get up into the upper
categories of of industries,
I've been I've been in the in the
upper tier of six different industries. In every
single one of them, the higher you climb,
the less faithful the men become.
And, you know, there's something there. You know?
And again, I just I don't believe it's
(13:43):
because they are assholes.
I believe that, you know, we're seeing this
amongst so many men in those upper tiers.
There's something going on amongst successful male culture,
primarily
in America. Right? There's this overemphasis on,
becoming the best, the best you can be.
And unfortunately, a lot of that has to
do with how many attractive women can you
(14:04):
sleep with? How many women how many women
want you? Right? How many options do you
have is is kind of how the the
the most successful men men are being portrayed
on television.
So this third option that I want to
inject into this rather than asshole or addict
is the concept that this person is,
misinformed,
(14:25):
insecure,
and has lost their sense of self.
And they are just desperate to matter. They're
desperate to to be significant. They're desperate to,
you know, whatever
society you know, because because think about it.
That's what a high achiever is. Right? A
high achiever is somebody who achieves achieves hard
things. Well, how does a high achiever know
what to achieve? They look around and they
say, what does my country what what do
(14:47):
people here consider
hard to achieve, hard to accomplish? Well, predominantly,
it's money and sleeping with extremely attractive, you
know, you know, considered, hard to sleep with
women. Right? So then the more money you
get because it's hard to get, as society
has said, and then the more women you
can sleep with because they're hard to sleep
with,
you must be this accomplished
(15:07):
high achiever. Right? And so to me,
when we lose our sense of self and
we start to try to matter and we
start relying on the influences around us, the
the the definitions of society, the things we
see on TV, the, you know, what we
what we feel like people in the world
care about and value,
which is money and sex, just is. Like,
that's just kind of the world we live
in right now.
(15:28):
You know, these men are more of a
byproduct
of of the world around them. I I
don't think asshole is the right word. What
I would describe is,
sad,
insecure,
lost.
That's how I would describe myself in these
men. You know, I think when we did
a lot of things that we did, you
know, the motive was not to be bad.
The motive was not to do bad things.
(15:49):
And motive was not to hurt ourselves, and
it certainly wasn't to hurt our life partner
and the person that we love most. At
least it wasn't for me.
My motive was to matter, was to be
somebody. And,
I was led to believe that it didn't
matter. I was led to believe that I
needed to be better and better and better
every day. And that was what the culture
kinda told me. The most impressive guy in
(16:10):
the room is the guy who's accomplished
the most. And, you know, unfortunately,
as the world has evolved, a lot of
that has to do with how much how
how big is your house, how nice how
nice is your car, how hot is your
wife, and how much money you got. I
mean, that's just really kind of how we've
defined
success, which is really sad because none of
those things actually really matter. In fact, pursuing
those things usually results in the destruction of
(16:31):
your life and a lot less happiness than
it does in more happiness. So I say
all this to say,
addict, asshole,
again, you know,
the challenge that I have with this debate
is
guys don't wanna be assholes, so they force
themselves to be addicts. Right? Because it's like,
oh, man. If I'm just an asshole, my
wife's gonna leave me. If I'm just an
(16:53):
asshole, I I can't get treatment because I'm
an asshole. Right? So there's there's no addiction
treatment to get. And again, I think I
think the problem with having those be the
only two options on the table is
they have to be addicts, and therefore, they
may go get treated like addicts and pretend
to be addicts.
But what if they're not addicts? Now they're
not getting treated.
And I think I personally believe this is
(17:13):
why we see the the recovery rate so
low at thirty four percent and the relapse
rate so high at, you know,
you know,
over almost seventy percent. And the reason we
see this is I believe men are not
necessarily
all addicts.
I don't I think some of them might
have a little bit of an addict into
them, maybe some more than others. But I
(17:34):
think when we treat them like addicts and
they just get addiction treatment and the focus
is just on sex and porn being used
to emotionally regulate,
you know, I think we're missing the mark
here. I think we're missing,
men using women to enhance their self worth,
men men fishing for compliments, validation, attention,
to feel superior,
(17:54):
to feel like they matter, to impress others.
You know, I think, you know, that's not
addiction. That's just called faulty brain processes
that these men adopted that they need to
change. So again,
why does this matter? Because I think if
men are just getting addiction treatment and they're
not addicts,
I don't think they're gonna get the results
that they want. I don't think their spouses
(18:15):
are gonna see the recovery that they want.
Right? So I think we do need to
examine all of the things, all of the
things that have entered our brain over the
years,
and start assessing, you know, how much of
this is contributing to my compulsive behavior and
my desperation to basically compromise my values
so that I can get these, little little
hits of attention, validation,
(18:36):
superiority, accomplishment,
you know, whatever it is that you've become
compulsive around. So again,
I don't know if asshole is the right
word. I think, insecure.
I think,
unsure. I think lost. I think
feeling behind. I think feeling inadequate, like you're
not enough yet. You know, I think there's
a lot of other things
that describe these men better that make them
(18:58):
act the way that they act. Again, I
think I think asshole is a little harsh,
and I think it's gonna actually harm their
recovery if we only pin them in these
two options, addict arrest.
Thanks for listening to this episode. If you
are a high achiever with a sex addiction
and you're looking for a recovery group full
of like minded men, visit successfuladdict.com.
We provide men with a recovery mastermind group
(19:19):
using four day retreats,
weekly group calls, and daily accountability check ins.
If you wanna achieve long term sobriety and
save your marriage, go to our website and
fill out our application. If you enjoyed this
episode, please pass it along to a friend
in recovery who would benefit from listening. It
is my mission to get this information out
to as many high achievers as possible, and
I can't do it without your help.
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