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Ever wondered what happens when you stop rushing toward orgasm and explore the landscape of pleasure instead? This week on Sex Reimagined, Leah and Dr. Willow chat with divine union couple Ariel Szabo and Rahi Chun – certified somatic sex educators who are revolutionizing how couples connect. Ariel (the "cosmic midwife of the soul") and Rahi (a genital dearmoring specialist) share their journey as partners and practitioners who blend sacred sexuality with plant medicine wisdom.
EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS
- ✨ How plant medicines like San Pedro can support sexual healing when used responsibly
- ✨ The power of slowing down and pausing during intimate experiences
- ✨ Why most pelvic armor forms before age 7 and has nothing to do with sexuality
- ✨ Ariel's personal journey from dissociation to full embodiment
- ✨ How couples at their retreat experienced profound breakthroughs tailored to their unique needs
- ✨ The importance of "arousal ripples" that positively affect those around you
EPISODE LINKS
- Rahi & Ariel’s Website
- Rahi’s Website
- Ariel’s Website
- Rahi & Ariel’s Free Gift | Organic Sexuality Ebook
- Rahi & Ariel’s Courses
- Rahi’s Podcast | Organic Sexuality - Episode with Leah & Willow
The Power of Pleasure, A Free Summit July 23-24, 2025. This 2-day live event will feature trailblazers in the field of conscious sexuality. Join us for FREE!
AWAKENING THE GODDESS IN CRETE! Leah & Willow want to take you on an all-woman's tantric pilgrimage to Greece Oct 5-12, 2025! Join us for a trip of lifetime.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Leah (00:00):
Hey there, Sex Explorers.
You have landed on the SexReimagined podcast.
My name is Leah Piper.
I'm your Tantra expert here andthe co host of the show.
Willow (00:10):
Yeah, and I'm Dr.
Willa Brown, your Taoist expert.
And today we interviewed tworeally incredible souls.
They are a divine union couple,Ariel Sezbo and Rahi Chun.
Ariel is a certified somatic sexeducator, sexological body
worker, and psychedelictherapist.
She's known as the cosmicmidwife of the soul, holding
(00:33):
sacred spaces fortransformational sexual
embodiment and evolution.
And Rahi Chun is also acertified sex educator and
sexological bodywork whospecializes in genital
dearmoring, which you're goingto hear all about.
They love holding space,individually and together for
couples worldwide and with theironline courses, divine Union for
(00:56):
Lovers.
So check them out.
You're gonna love this podcastso much to learn.
Leah (01:02):
So please tune in, turn on, and fall in love with Rahi
and Ariel.
Announcer (01:08):
Welcome to the Sex Reimagined Podcast, where sex is
shame free and pleasure forward.
Let's get into the show.
Leah (01:17):
Okay.
Welcome to the sex reimaginedpodcast Rahi and Ariel.
We're really happy to have youtoday.
Rahi (01:22):
Thank you so much for having us.
Ariel (01:24):
Yeah.
So great to be here.
Hmm.
Willow (01:29):
have been working together, um, and they are life
partners and they've been reallyguiding couples through major
phenomenal transformationalexperiences since I think, uh,
March of last year, but bothhave very deep and extensive.
backgrounds in sexual healing,sexual health.
(01:49):
And so I'm just, I'd love tostart with, um, I asked Aria a
little bit earlier, you know,what, how did you guys meet?
I'd love to hear like moredetails of that story and how
you guys came together.
The personal stuff.
We want to hear the personalstuff.
Leah (02:04):
We love a love story
Rahi (02:06):
Sure.
Well, you know, the question is,is which lifetime do you want to
start with?
Because we've actually, yeah, Imean, we've, um,
Leah (02:14):
which let's start with this lifetime
Rahi (02:16):
okay.
Okay.
Okay.
Well, in this lifetime, um, ourpaths crossed about four years
ago.
four or five years ago, as we'reboth, you know, in the same
field, as you mentioned, we'reboth certified as somatic sex
educators, sexological bodyworkers.
And, um, we were just intriguedby each other's work.
I've always been drawn.
(02:36):
I mean, from that point on, andAriel's been kind of a big
instigator for me as far as myevolution and understanding of
the, um, wisdom and power ofplant medicines.
Um, and so, you know, becauseshe's been so immersed in that
world, I've sought out hercounsel as, you know, I've been
exploring that personally andalso, From about five years ago,
(03:00):
I cannot tell you how manyclients have said my sexual
trauma, my, you know, the, my,the images I've, I've gotten
clarity from an ayahuascaceremony.
And so I've just kind of leanedinto finding out more and more.
And recently, you know, we'vestarted combining, uh,
grandfather San Pedro with um,sexual healing.
(03:20):
Um, so I've started seeking outher counsel back then.
She was seeking out, um, youknow, uh, I have an expertise in
genital de armoring.
I, I teach it worldwide.
And so Ariel's taken my trainingand my, um, my course.
And so, and then it was just,you know, when it's obvious,
it's obvious.
And so, you know, we've had manyconversations about like, Power
(03:42):
dynamics and, and kind of ourrelational dynamics.
Cause you know, I've sought outher counsel.
She set out mine.
We really wanted it to be aclean container for, you know,
what wanted to happen to happen.
And it's just really happenedvery organically and beautifully
since
Leah (04:02):
Ariel what would you add to that to that love story?
Ariel (04:05):
Hmm.
Well, I would add that, uh, itlike really started to take off
at a really cool coming togetherof a bunch of colleagues, like
experimenting with theintersections of psychedelics,
plant medicines and sacredintimacy.
(04:28):
Um, and that was, yeah, so thatwas a really, like, that kind of
like put us on the magic carpetthat we've been riding since
then.
Leah (04:36):
so
Willow (04:36):
were you guys both like looking for your life partner?
Were you kind of just happy asyou were?
Where were you at before it allsparked?
Rahi (04:45):
well, I, I probably like up to a year before we got
together, like, with every plantmedicine journey I'd done, the
intention was to clear, youknow, past patterns, you know,
like, um, I mean, so manypatterns of me being drawn to
unavailable people, you know,that kind of a thing and really
needing to let go of that,letting go of kind of cord
(05:07):
cutting with, with maternalattachments, you know, like all
of that stuff.
And then, you know, it, therewas the spaciousness and
openness for, you know, thisunion to come in.
And, and I must say, you know,like, I'm guessing your, your
listeners have experiencedsomething like this.
It's like when we met.
(05:28):
There was this almost anenergetic communication
happening between our bodieswhere like I would touch her
shoulder and then intuitively myhand would want to go to her hip
and then she would say, oh, myhip wanted that touch there.
It was this kind of likenonverbal communication that I
had never experienced before.
Um, yeah, it was wild.
Willow (05:50):
Wow.
Mm
Leah (05:51):
really relate to that.
I remember when, um, my husbandand I were just getting to know
each other.
He was actually a client, so Iwas one of those big, bad, taboo
teachers who dated our client.
After I fired him, by the way,um, but it was really, uh,
amazing, like, we would bewalking down the street and,
like, our hips would just keepon magnetizing towards each
(06:14):
other.
It was like we couldn't walkside by side.
Without our hips touching, youknow, and then like we're on
this whale watching thing andlike, we couldn't help, but just
him to come behind me at first,like hands, just on either side
of the rails, right.
Me in the center.
And then the next thing, youknow, the pelvis and the hips,
they just want to connect.
It's so yummy.
(06:34):
And yeah, I love thatgravitational pull.
between lovers wanting tomagnify, magnetize each other.
Really, really sexy stuff.
Um, okay.
So I have a question because weget this every once in a while.
We're seeing more and morepractitioners who have had
experiences in the plantmedicine world who are also sex
(06:56):
educators or in the sexualhealing space starting to blend
the two together.
And I have been a part of twodifferent types of traditions.
Some traditions that go.
Those two don't mix.
You do plant medicine, you'reopening up a can of worms, they
keep really the genders veryseparated when they're doing
medicine.
(07:16):
So we've got that type oftradition.
And then we have these moreancient mystery school
traditions where sacraments Mindaltering substances have been a
part of the tradition for, forthousands of years.
So I'm really curious about whatyou've been experiencing
blending the two.
What is at risk when you dothat?
(07:38):
What are the complications?
What are the dangers?
What are the taboos?
And then also what the, uh, whatthe miracles have been that
you've observed, either insideyour own experiences or those
with people that you're leading.
Ariel (07:52):
Hmm.
Yeah, well, I think, you know,the, the danger.
is that there's just more riskinvolved, which also means that
there's greater, like, formativepotential.
Willow (08:06):
Mm hmm.
Ariel (08:07):
Um, and I think it's like, it's two different
conversations when we're talkingabout personal use of
combination and serving it toclients in a combination.
Um, I use it a lot in mypersonal use.
Um, and it's amazing andexpansive and transformative.
And I'm also mindful of thedosage that I'm using.
(08:30):
And I think different things areavailable at different doses,
whether you're on your lighterdose or a higher dose.
Um, and I think, you know, okay,when I think about combining it
for clients, you know, that caneven look like so many different
ways.
Um, when I facilitate ayahuascaretreats.
(08:50):
It's not while people are in themedicine, but outside of that
space, I might lead, um, asomatic embodiment journey that
is inviting them to get in touchwith their sexual energy,
touching their bodies, um, maybebeing blindfolded and really
just, um, getting into theirsenses and their pleasure.
And The transformations that Isee with that, the feedback that
(09:14):
I get from that is like, this isso helpful.
It's opening me more to themedicine.
It's also helping me integratewhat the medicine is bringing to
me.
Um,
Leah (09:24):
So let me just make sure, I want to clarify this for the
audience, is that, um, when itcomes to ayahuasca, for
instance, you're not guidingthem towards, you know,
connecting to their sexualenergy during their high of
being on the medicine.
You're using it as anintegration tool to help them
integrate their experience fromayahuasca and also in
(09:45):
preparation for their nextayahuasca journey that I'm
imagining they're drinking morethan one time on in a retreat
like this.
Ariel (09:51):
Correct.
Leah (09:52):
Gotcha.
Ariel (09:53):
Yeah.
Willow (09:54):
Yeah.
I have found that to be sopowerful as well, simply because
ayahuasca herself is such aforce of divine feminine energy.
And so you know, when we're whenwe're getting in touch with
Shakti, and so so leading andguiding people into these
somatic experiences in betweenjourneys on a, you know, weekend
(10:16):
retreat like that, um, Itreally, it really awakens what
the medicine has to offer insuch a different and unique way.
It's really profound.
Um, I'm curious if you guys everdo, uh, I know you work with
Wachuma, which is San Pedro, um,as well.
And I'm curious if you, are everblending the two at the same
(10:39):
time.
You know, if you're ever doing,let's say pelvic floor work, um,
de armoring while somebody is onthe medicine at that moment, or
if it's always, um, you know,we're going to do medicine today
and we're going to do pelvicfloor work tomorrow.
Leah (10:56):
And I just want to preface it, I, I want to make sure that
we're not jumping too far aheadusing language, that listeners
have no idea what we're talkingabout.
For instance, there may bepeople listening that have never
heard of ayahuasca before.
There may be people listeningthat don't know what San Pedro
is and what it does.
There are lots of people whoprobably don't know what we're
talking about when you'retalking about de armoring
genitals or pelvic floor releasework.
So we don't want to go into hugelong descriptions, but as we're
(11:19):
sort of putting language outthere that a beginner has never
heard of before.
If you could just give us asnippet explanation of what
you're referring to so thatwe're not losing anybody in the
conversation.
Ariel (11:30):
Yeah, so, you know, Rahi and I have been at a retreat
together that we held wherewe've combined, but this is
couples working with oneanother.
We're not working on them.
Um, and it's a low dose and it'svery profound and powerful and
you know, um, that particularmedicine.
(11:54):
Which is, uh, from a cactus, theactive compound in it is
mescaline.
Um, it's not a medicine thatgenerally gives people lots of
visions.
And especially at a lower dose,it really, wachuma literally,
which is another name for thesame medicine, san pedro, it
literally means without a head.
(12:15):
So it brings you into your bodyand helps you connect with your
heart and your feelings and yoursensations more.
Um,
Leah (12:22):
Does it make it more erotic when you are more
connected to your sensations oris it maybe processing things
that are not
Willow (12:30):
Stuck.
Yeah.
Like
Ariel (12:31):
I think it can be both.
It's kind of whatever the personneeds is what's going to happen
Willow (12:36):
Mm hmm.
Ariel (12:37):
and also guided by their intentions.
Willow (12:39):
Yeah.
Ariel (12:40):
Um, and.
Yeah, so like, you know, how wehave had experiences together of
combining them.
I mean, I can, I can speak frommy practice that the majority of
the work that I do is actuallykeeping the two separate.
Um, and that if we are going tocombine them, there has to be a
(13:02):
lot of trust.
It's definitely not gonna happenthe first time that we're
meeting or the second timeprobably.
Um, but, and, and the reasonthat this is, is because.
These medicines blur boundaries,and it can make consent even
more nuanced and layered than italready is.
(13:26):
And that's why you need to be socareful, um, with how you
approach this, the way it'sintroduced, um, what dosage are
you using, if you are combiningthe two things.
Does the person even haveexperience with the medicine
before doing this?
Should you really be combiningtwo potent medicines if the
person doesn't already haveexperience with each potent
(13:48):
medicine on their own?
Willow (13:50):
And when you say two potent medicines, you're
speaking to sexual healing andthe San Pedro or Wachuma.
Um, and so when, Rahi, were yougoing to
Rahi (14:01):
yeah, yeah.
I just wanted to, um, highlightthe experience of this couples
retreat.
It was two days.
The first day was really spenton creating a safe container.
So, you know, Leah what, whatyou would ask what you had
touched on earlier.
What that looks like is reallyunderstanding, you know,
(14:21):
something that we call the eightpillars of intimacy.
They're really principles andvalues of slowing down, of
pausing, of noticing what'sreally happening within your
body, of attuning to what it isthat your body's feeling moment
by moment.
So the first day was reallyestablishing that safety and
also.
(14:42):
Yeah, and also encouraging, youknow, as Ariel said, these were
three couples, so they knew eachother.
I mean, it was a range ofcouples.
To be honest with you, onecouple was on their third date.
They came to this three day, youknow, yeah, and
Leah (14:55):
I love
Willow (14:56):
let's go.
Who cares about couples therapy?
Let's do this.
we're going all in.
Leah (15:01):
we're building a foundation.
Yeah.
Rahi (15:04):
yes, by by diving into the deep end, which is exactly what
they did.
But going to your point earlieras to, you know, whether the San
Pedro made it, you know, madethem more erotic.
It was really interestingbecause after two days of
facilitating one way touch,which included.
genital mapping, right?
So really educating the, uh,the, um, erogenous anatomy via a
(15:27):
felt sense.
We found that the medicine justmet each couple where they were
ready to go deeper.
So there was one couple that hadbeen together for 13 years and
this, the healing ceremony thatwe witnessed them go through was
the deeply emotional andhealing.
(15:48):
Right, where, where the receiverasked the giver to apologize to
different areas of their vulva,
Willow (15:55):
Mm.
Powerful.
Rahi (15:57):
the couple that were on their third date.
I mean, she said she had themost ecstatic orgasm of her
life, and that's what they wereready for.
So we found that the grandfatherSan Pedro really met, like, each
couple, each body, after twodays of one way touch, like,
where it was ready to go next,in a much deeper way.
Leah (16:20):
love that.
You know, there's a couplethings that I would love to go
deeper on with what you said.
I would want to hear more about,A, what container is.
You know, we hear that word alot.
Container or holding space.
in a lot of the therapeuticcircles.
Um, but how does someone createa container?
And then what are these eightpillars of intimacy?
Willow (16:41):
And also, I'm curious, you know, in this particular
container that you set for thesethree couples, were they on
their own in their own separateroom or was everyone in a room
together when they werepracticing on the San Pedro?
Rahi (16:56):
Yeah, so a couple of things.
Containers, um, uh, the eightpillars, and how we facilitated
the couples.
What do you want to take, Ariel?
Ariel (17:09):
I'll do the eight pillars, but you start with
something
Rahi (17:11):
Okay, so as far as the containers, so, you know, in, in
plant medicine work, there's alot of talk about set and
setting and I feel like it'sreally applicable to sacred
sexuality containers as well.
Um, you know, there are so, youknow, we started the container
with a zoom for everyone to getto know each other and to share
the intentions, but thecontainer is really defined by
(17:33):
the agreements that everyoneshares.
So, you know, there are certainagreements that I think are kind
of.
You know, make sense and and andare applicable to most
containers, confidentiality,boundaries, self care, self
responsibility.
But we're really big on invitingemotions into the container
because we know that, you know,what's going to cause a
(17:56):
breakthrough within a couple orwithin a body is to kind of
metabolize whatever emotionthat's been creating an obstacle
in the in the energy flow in inthe body's response, and so
we're really big on inviting allkinds of emotions.
And with that kind of tone set,um, the container and you know,
(18:19):
it really invites and encouragesthe emotions.
And we found that it wasactually the men.
They were three heterosexualcouples who were there.
Yeah.
Deeply vulnerable from the getgo.
And that really sets a tone.
Um, and then we're encouraging.
Yeah.
Yeah, it was really inspiring.
And then we kept, you know, theagreements are like on a
(18:40):
whiteboard and we continue torefer back to it.
So it's almost like the valuesand principles of, you know,
being emotionally open, beingvulnerable, like taking self
responsibility are returned toand reminded of again and again
throughout the weekend.
Willow (18:57):
I love that.
So those are the agreements thateveryone kind of comes up with
together.
So you kind of are like writingthese agreements down as people
are throwing them out in thebeginning to to set the tone for
the entire weekend.
Rahi (19:10):
tone.
Yes, the tone is so important.
Willow (19:13):
Yeah,
Ariel (19:14):
Yeah, and I like to think of, too, the container as really
what's predictable, becausethere's so much that's
unpredictable when we're goingdeeply into our bodies and our
emotions.
So the container is what's goingto anchor people so that they do
have something to, like, hold onto, know is reliable so that
they can go into what's unknown,and for a lot of people that can
(19:36):
feel pretty scary.
Willow (19:38):
Is there any other, um, like, building of the container
that you guys do as far as likecalling in the elements, calling
in spiritual support, calling inguides, calling in guardians,
that kind of thing?
Ariel (19:53):
Yeah, I mean, um, I would say there's a good amount that
we do that is unseen by theparticipants and then there's
some of it that we do that isseen and with the participants.
Willow (20:03):
Gotcha.
Yeah.
So you kind of, even before theyeven show up, have already set
the, the field, quote unquote,so to speak.
Yeah, love that.
Rahi (20:11):
Yeah, I love, I love your languaging in that Willow.
So we, Ariel and I haveorganically, um, kind of
cultivated our own rituals.
Uh, you know, calling in ourguides, their guides, um, and
our own kind of energycirculation to make sure that
we're holding the containerclean and then, you know, from
there we invite the containerwithin the organism of the
(20:33):
group.
Willow (20:34):
I love that.
I'm curious before we move onfrom container setting and
setting tone and space and allof that and holding space, like
what, what have yourparticipants come to you
afterwards with in, in referenceto that?
Have they come to you and saidthings like, God, you guys hold
amazing space or wow, thecontainer you set was so
(20:56):
powerful or, or, or that we allset together.
Thank you for helping us createco created or what, anything
along those lines.
Did they notice?
Ariel (21:06):
Yeah, I think
Rahi (21:07):
Yeah, the, you know, we did a cacao ceremony recently
and all of the feedback.
Like the common thread was aboutthe container and how the
container allowed them to, fortheir inner children to come out
and be seen by their partners,for example.
You know, or that they weresurprised that, you know, things
that they didn't think would,uh, you know, things that
(21:29):
surprised them in regards totheir vulnerability and they
referred back to the, um, to thesafety of the container.
Ariel (21:37):
Yeah, yeah, and I think a lot of what also makes the
container feel that way forparticipants has to do with the
nervous system of thefacilitators.
Um,
Willow (21:48):
Yeah, good point.
Ariel (21:49):
if you're really grounded, people might not even
be conscious that that's whatthey're responded to, but then
they can kind of co regulatewith the most grounded nervous
systems in the room.
Willow (22:04):
Mm hmm.
Mm hmm.
Beautiful.
Leah (22:06):
Great.
Let's, uh, let's jump to, um,unless you had a follow up.
Yeah.
Rahi (22:11):
The eight pillars of intimacy.
Ariel (22:14):
The Eight
Willow (22:14):
Ariel, take it away.
Ariel (22:17):
I love the Eight Pillars of Intimacy.
Um, I feel like these are reallythe like skills that all of us
can build to have a deeplyintimate and satisfying
relationship with ourselves andthen of course other beings and
the world around us in general.
So the pillars are first slowingdown so that you don't miss cues
(22:38):
from your own body, otherpeople's bodies.
Um, then pausing, so like takinga sacred pause so that you can
then notice what is evenhappening for you, your
sensations, your emotions, andthen attune to what's happening,
and then therefore what youmight need, want, desire.
Um, and then from there, acceptit.
(23:00):
Like, accept what is true foryou moment to moment.
This is one a lot of peoplestruggle with, because we might
not like what's happening.
We might want to push it awayand suppress it.
Um, and then trust it.
Like, trust what your body istelling you.
Your physical body, youremotional body.
And then value it.
Value it enough to take up spacewith it.
(23:21):
And then communicate.
Whatever you need to with theperson you're in relationship
with, or make any adjustmentsnecessary.
Willow (23:29):
Mm.
Mm.
Do you guys have a, um, what isit, an acronym for your Eight
Pillars so people can rememberthem easily?
Ariel (23:36):
you know, but we're like in the midst of kind of creating
a visual of some sort, you
Leah (23:40):
I like that.
Ariel (23:41):
know?
Willow (23:41):
I love it.
so we've got, um, slowing down,pausing, noticing, attuning,
accepting, I forget what's afterthat?
Ariel (23:54):
Trusting, valuing, communicating.
Willow (23:58):
Ah.
They,
Leah (23:59):
we get all eight?
Willow (24:00):
order.
Rahi (24:01):
Yes, that's all eight.
Leah (24:02):
Okay.
Okay, great.
Great.
That's beautiful.
Willow (24:05):
Leah and I always say three pillars to intimacy, which
is trust presence andvulnerability, you know So it's
sort of a more simplifiedversion of what you guys have
created, but I love that.
I love those eight pillars Thoseare fantastic and they build on
each other
Rahi (24:22):
Yes.
Leah (24:22):
especially love the slowing down and the pausing.
You know, it's like really likebe even more in the moment.
And you can't do that if you'regoing so fast, you know, to like
really be in the moment.
You've got to be right there.
And that is not a fastprocessing experience.
That's like really here.
Willow (24:42):
Yeah, I love I love that you guys are bringing the pause
in because I feel like that issuch one of the most
Leah (24:52):
Underrated.
Willow (24:53):
valuable and yeah, underrated, like phenomenal, uh,
practices that we could have inall of life.
And, um, I really learned itstudying pre and perinatal
psychology and it was, they, Ithink they have seven, seven
things that like help you comecloser together inside of
intimacy and relationship.
And the pause was justhighlighted over and over again.
(25:14):
So ever since I did thattraining, however many years
ago, you know, I've really been,introducing it to people and
nobody thinks about it.
Nobody knows about the pause.
And so everyone who's listening,like it's okay to pause.
And that pause could be threeminutes.
It could be three days.
It could be three years.
Like the pause is as long as youneed the pause to be.
(25:37):
So that noticing piece that youhave in there as well as like.
Really, you know, noticing andattuning, like, am I done with
my pause yet?
Am I really, truly done with mypause?
Or am I feeling pressure fromoutside to be done with my pause
earlier?
So, that pause can be such asacred, sacred practice in all
(25:59):
of life, and especially insexuality, because There's, you
know, in, in sort of traditionalsexuality, there's such a frenzy
and a fastness to it.
Like, let's hurry up and get tothe finish line.
And there's so much missed, feltsense because of that, um, lack
of being able to take sexualsovereignty and, and really
(26:19):
pause.
Leah (26:20):
I think, too, there's something really interesting
that we are in a habit of, whichis going so fast, we're not
feeling or attuning to thesensations or to our rising
desires or to what we need thatmay be different from what we're
getting.
And so to be able not to rushthrough that or to skip through
(26:40):
it, I've watched over the years,I think, especially with vulva
owners in particular, abandon.
their needs in, in sexualexperiences.
They're like rushing through it,um, almost to just, only,
sometimes just to please theother person.
And therefore,
Willow (27:00):
right?
Leah (27:01):
just get it over, but like not really, it's that, it's just
to get it over is one thing, butI think half of that is due to
the fact that we're notinvestigating.
What, what our real desires are,what the potential of what it is
that we want that's different.
And so we end up landing in thisplace of just knowing what we
don't want, instead ofdiscovering what we do want.
(27:23):
And so I love this idea of, uh,the combination of slowing down,
attuning, looking, accepting.
Um, and that accepting is very,can be very crunchy.
I think what you sort of werereferring to Ariel, it's like,
um, A, just being with notgetting maybe what we need or B,
(27:45):
not knowing what we really need.
Um, and having to like be inthat place of discovery.
And sometimes that takes time tofind out.
What, how, what would you add tothat, Rahi?
Rahi (27:57):
Well, I just love how intentionally sequenced these
pillars are because they dobuild on each other and it
starts with slowing down and toyour both of your points to
pausing, you know, I we bothAriel and I are very, very aware
and like love to point out tocouples how as soon as you know,
(28:18):
one one person's body feelsarousal.
It's almost like they're on aUnstoppable train track to
orgasm and they're missing outon like the the expansive
terrains along the way.
And what I love about pausing isyou know, like it takes into
account how moment by momenteverything's are changing, you
(28:39):
know sensations feelings desirescan shift moment to moment.
And the slowing down and pausingreally takes, I mean, really
every step of the eight pillarstakes all of that into
consideration.
And, um, you know, one of ourparticipants pointed out that
the first seven are actuallyinternal experiences until the
communicating comes at theeighth.
(29:02):
And that's how much like selfinquiry and examination we feel
like is necessary for people toreally engage and be satiated in
the desires that their bodywants.
Willow (29:13):
Mm.
And now, have you noticed thatin this recent event that you
did with the, with the plantmedicine, was there a particular
pillar like, like the pause oracceptance that that medicine
really helped people, um, youknow, settle into more inside of
(29:35):
themselves?
Ariel (29:36):
I don't, I don't know if it's really coming for me as a
pillar.
It feels more just like the,like the, the truth, the deepest
emotions just came to thesurface.
Willow (29:48):
Mm.
Rahi (29:51):
So that kind of like reflects all of the pillars
really,
Willow (29:55):
Right.
Rahi (29:56):
to get in touch with what your true authentic emotions
are, you know, you really, you,I think, like, unconsciously, we
are going, we're either, we'reeither rushing through those
eight pillars or we're overoverriding those eight pillars,
right?
But to really slow down theprocess invites that kind of
emotional, um, excavation andhonoring.
Leah (30:18):
Lovely.
So now let's find out how you'refacilitating these couples in
the classroom.
Back to Dr.
Willow's original question awhile back.
Rahi (30:28):
Right, right.
Well, um, the the space, whichwas held in my space here, um,
allowed for each couple to havethe privacy of their own
bedroom, right?
Where, whereas we met and demoedeach one way touch practice in
the living area.
So, the big circle, the openingcircle, the closing circle, the
(30:50):
group shares, we had a greatspace in the living area, but
then each couple had the, the,the privacy of their own room to
really go as deep or as wide or,or however, however their
exploration carried them.
Willow (31:04):
Oh, that's nice.
So there was, there was like acohesive group experience and
there was option to just goprivate and do your own thing.
Love that.
Leah (31:15):
oh, well one of the things I know was on my list to dig in
deep with, uh, was talking aboutextended states of arousal and
how you guide people into that.
What does that mean to the twoof you?
What does that mean to yourstudents?
Ariel (31:33):
Yeah, so extended states of arousal are really like
luxuriating in Low states ofarousal, medium states of
arousal, high states of arousalwithout going over the edge.
So if we think about pleasure ona dial from zero to ten, like
zero being like not reallyaroused, ten being there's a
(31:55):
release in orgasm, then like,what is it like to stay for a
long period of time in three?
Or what about five?
Or what about seven or eight?
Um, and What I find,particularly in the low and
(32:15):
medium states, is that a lot ofunmetabolized emotional material
will come to the surface.
It's almost like the arousal,right?
It like feels good.
So it opens the system and thenthings just start coming up.
And if you've, if you're in acontainer that you've created
(32:35):
with the intention of likeallowing these things to arise
and tend to them, it can belike.
Whoa, unbelievable metabolizingand healing can take place of
what arises, I find in the, whenlike luxuriating spending time
in the higher states of arousal,like, maybe like.
(32:56):
6, 7, 8, 9, it, it can becomethis like, like one with the
universe, blissful in a cloud,like consciousness expanding,
all boundaries have dissolvedbetween me, my partner, and the
(33:16):
world around me.
Leah (33:17):
Yeah, very transcendent.
Ariel (33:19):
Mm hmm.
Willow (33:20):
I love that space.
That's best.
Ariel (33:22):
Hmm.
Mm
Leah (33:24):
but I just want to add too, I think sometimes like
we're always in a rush.
I think sometimes, especiallylike when you look at like
tantric sort of philosophies andstuff, I think a lot of people
get carried away in this desireto want to reach like eight and
nine, eight and nine, likethat's the ultimate.
And it's true that thosetranscendent states have a level
of profundity that is verydifferent from what we have
(33:47):
access to in the lower numbers,but I think what's really
beautiful about the lowernumbers is that they're so,
they're less investigated, andbecause they're not so colorful
all the time, like they're notsweeping you away, you can have
experiences of self realization.
There can be a certain amount ofself acceptance.
And like an acknowledgement thatthere's bliss here too.
(34:11):
That we don't always have to bein the rush to get up to the
higher numbers.
It's like, but who am I at a 2.
2?
What, what does the sensation inthe back of my throat compared
to the tip of my clitoris feellike at a, at a 3.
1?
And can I be as in love?
Can I bring sort of a sense ofeuphoria and bliss to these more
(34:35):
common, less exalted places?
I think there's a reallyinteresting challenge there to
invite the seeker to explore,um, that sometimes for people it
almost seems like it'sintolerable, you know what I
mean?
Because we get so goal oriented
Willow (34:51):
because, you want to get higher.
Leah (34:53):
because we're valuing higher is better.
And I think to allow people tocome into these places that are
less extraordinary helps us seelife differently.
It, it, it, then when we extendoutward, out of the sexual
realm, into the other sectors ofour life, not all of life has to
(35:13):
be one bliss goal.
We can actually see, like, thebeauty in boredom.
We can see the, the beauty inthe mundane.
We can see, we can look for thebeauty where most of the time
we're not consciously choosingto do so.
That's my little tangent.
Willow (35:27):
that's a great tangent, Leah.
I think one of the things that'sreally powerful about both, um,
sacred sexual healing work andplant medicine individually, and
also together is we get the.
It's, it almost like offers usmore permission to jump between
those things.
Like it's okay to go up and hangout in the eight, nine for a
(35:48):
while and then come back down tothe three, four and just hang
out there for awhile, you know?
And so it doesn't always have tobe like you're climbing a ladder
and you can't go back to lowerstages.
And it's, it's almost like in myexperience, you have more
appreciation for those lowerstages, you know, of arousal.
Um, When, when you've, you know,when you're just coming off of a
(36:12):
big rush from an eight orsomething like that.
Rahi (36:15):
Essentially what we're doing with couples is
deconstructing the defaultconditioned physiological and
psychological response wherearousal has to lead to orgasm or
arousal has to go to search somekind of result.
We want to expand and just openthe playing field so that you
(36:35):
can go from a 3 to an 8 to a 5to a 9 and those lower states,
you know, as you both.
Uh, you know, beautifullyarticulated.
There's so many untappedterrains to explore there, but
at the same time, once we startexploring the eight zone, we
realize, you know, there is an8.
125.
(36:56):
There is an 8.
1226, you know, like the eightto nine starts to elongate.
And then what we love doing isafter a lovemaking session of an
8.
9 meditate.
And just be still and go aboutour day with that vibrant, you
know, that with that frequency.
Right?
(37:16):
So that we're going about andyou know, we go to Whole Foods
and all of a sudden everyone'strying to help us for some
reason.
You know what I mean?
Willow (37:23):
And everyone's smiling
Rahi (37:24):
Yeah.
every everyone is giving usattention.
And then we come back and thenwhen we start making love again,
it, it, it picks up from that,you know, eight zone and we
continue to elongate.
Right.
What is actually possible andwhat kind of states of
consciousness, you know, are ourvessels have the capacity for.
Leah (37:44):
Oh, I love that.
I love this, this worddeconstruct.
It's allowing us to actually,um, this is where I think
pleasure really becomes a pathof self realization where we can
take a look at arousal andallow.
And stretch it out like taffy.
I always tell people, look,we're so obsessed with the
destination that we'reforgetting that the best part of
(38:05):
the journey is going on theride.
And you don't want the ride tojust be one direction.
We're just going up, up, up, up,up.
The ride has got to have someHills.
We got to have some, we got tolike.
do a turnabout.
We need to, we need to have someroundabouts turned into those
hills and those valleys andcurving around the mountains.
We want, and, and that's reallywhere I think people become the
(38:26):
best lovers is when they knowhow to take someone's system on
a ride.
Because that's what really thiswhole thing around putting love
into our bodies and usingarousal as our playground, it's
about being on a ride.
And the thing that I think is sodangerous in our And this time
that we're living in is our, isour need and our chase of
(38:48):
dopamine dumps.
It's like, give me that nexthit, grab my attention with the
way that we're looking atscreens and the way that we're
so hungry for information.
We're actually not allowing ourbody to go down.
It's like, we can't just havepeak.
Peaks, peaks, we actually needto go down healthfully.
Otherwise we're robbingourselves of dopamine and we're
(39:09):
going to experience things likedepression and anxiety and these
other negative states ofemotions by now allowing
ourselves to take and dial downour system.
To actually allow ourselves togo through hard things.
To feel everything that comeswith an obstacle not being a
chase to just get over theobstacle But take our time there
(39:32):
like allow everything that lifehas to give us and not only be
chasing these dopamine dumps.
Which I think when we're chasingorgasm and this is where things
like sex addiction and loveaddiction and other things
become problematic because we'rechasing the hit.
And I love what you're sayingRahi because when we can slow
things down And we allowourselves to actually stop
(39:55):
before we have the climax.
We stay at a moment of higharousal, and then we allow this
meditative experience to happen,and then we go do the mundane,
right?
We go to the grocery store.
I think what happens, which isjust such a beautiful
phenomenon, is we're learninghow to take that turn on.
and make it a life experience sothat we're turned on.
(40:17):
We're taking that turn on intothe world.
And you're right, people arenoticing because we're lit up
from the inside and that ismagnetic.
And when we are living a turnedon life, there's an osmosis,
there's mirror neurons that wecan then use to turn on other
people.
So we're giving them permissionto also be turned on and I just
(40:38):
think that's kind of reallybeautific in its radiance.
Willow (40:41):
It's an arousal ripple.
Rahi (40:42):
Mm
Leah (40:43):
an arousal ripple!
Rahi (40:44):
an arousal ripple and we're shifting from orgasm to
orgasmic states of being
Leah (40:51):
Yeah.
Willow (40:52):
Mm hmm.
Leah (40:53):
yeah, and we're taking that peace we feel in that
place, that feeling ofcontentment, that feeling of
presence, and we're letting thatbe present in the world, which
is something I think we'rereally in need of, is this
experience of others in apeaceful place, you know, like,
because don't we feel betterWhen we're sitting next to
(41:15):
someone who has, who'sexperiencing contentment and
peace, doesn't that also give uspermission to like settle down
into our own nervous system thatmay be feeling a bit whelmed or
under resourced?
Um, so I feel like from like auniversal level, this has a
ripple effect in the world, notjust for our own being, or maybe
(41:38):
the effect it has on our lover,but really how it can affect,
um, a stranger.
Rahi (41:43):
Totally.
Totally Yeah, and, and it doesrequire, you know, like, like,
why are we so fixated on orgasm,or like, you know, there's
generations now, their sex ed isporn, and the, the, the
glorified shot is what theycall, quote unquote, the money
shot.
And that's when the party ends.
I just, I never understood.
(42:04):
Why is that the money shot?
That means the party's over.
You know,
Leah (42:07):
that's such a good point.
Rahi (42:09):
but, but it really, you know, we, we, it, it invites us
to examine like, what is, what'sour sexual ego and identity
invested in?
Is it the orgasm?
Or is it, you know, as you'respeaking to, really this deep,
profound peace that can spreadthroughout, you know, your
family, your friends, yourcommunity, kind of throughout
(42:29):
the world.
Leah (42:30):
Yeah, so I'm curious, but I don't, you know, Willow, I
want to make sure that you don'thave something biting at the bit
before I ask another question.
Okay, So, I'm curious about whenpeople are contacting you, what
are they, you know, because mostof the time people are
contacting us to work with usbecause they're facing a problem
in their life.
(42:51):
There's something that they,they feel called to work on.
So what are some of theproblems?
What are, what are, what's thepain?
What's the story of, of people'spain that they're coming to you
asking for support and helpwith?
Ariel (43:05):
Well, I think it like, you know, there's different
contexts, but it's always comesback to wanting deeper
connection.
Leah (43:15):
Hmm.
Okay.
Willow (43:16):
Yeah.
That's at
Ariel (43:17):
wanting satisfying connection,
Willow (43:19):
Mm hmm.
Mm
Leah (43:23):
what it strips down to, but I would like to know a
little bit more about thecontext, because I think for the
listener, it will help themfeel, yeah, that's what I'm
struggling with.
Can you say a little about thecontext?
Because I feel like that's whatpeople connect to first, and
then it's the realization thatwhat they're hungry for is
connection.
Ariel (43:41):
Yeah.
So I can give a couple examplesthat are coming to mind for me
now are like, uh, patterns ofenduring between couples.
Like Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Doing things that they're notactually really wanting, but not
knowing how to change it orexpress it to their partner.
Um, there can be like, um,people who are struggling, are
(44:05):
inorgasmic or people who haveerectile dysfunction.
Um, I don't know, Rahi, whatelse is coming to your mind?
Rahi (44:13):
Well, I do feel like the underlying is a desire for
connection and anotherunderlying is not knowing how to
get there.
And, you know, so much of whatwe do is facilitate kind of a re
education for couples to learnabout their, each other's bodies
through one way touch.
(44:34):
So, you know, we're both, uh,somatic sex educators and kind
of a pillar of our education isaround one person doing nothing
but being present to thesensations of receiving touch.
And in that, we can reconditionpast patterns and people learn
so much about each other'sbodies that like, you know,
(44:55):
people could have been marrieddecades and they never realized,
Oh, my wife likes the lightfeathery touch.
I just didn't have that in myarsenal, you know, so one way
touch is really big.
And then you know, anotherpillar of our, of our, um, work
is, uh, what we call genitalmapping.
You know, I mentioned thisearlier, what we did facilitated
(45:15):
for the couples, it's reallyunderstanding the erogenous
anatomy and how much time ittakes and how much time you can
enjoy spending, right?
Like warming up, getting theblood flowing, you know,
exploring with differentcombined different erogenous,
uh, parts of the, you know,vulva and vagina or the perineum
(45:38):
and the base of the shaft or thefrenulum.
I mean, there's just so manydifferent combinations that
people don't know about and it'stheir body, you know, it's their
body.
So I would say, in addition tothe enduring, which is a huge
piece is, uh, You know, it'sreally like learning sex
education for the first time,you know, but, you know, like a
(46:01):
felt sense sex education.
So couples are really learninglike how much down regulation of
their partner's nervous systemis required for them to even
feel stuff.
You know, and that requires, youknow, understanding each
other's, um, nervous systemhistories and, you know,
childhood ruptures and justcreating that safe container so
(46:22):
that the body can actually feelsafe to respond.
Leah (46:25):
Mm.
Love that.
Willow (46:28):
Rahi, can you talk a little bit about, um, the de
armoring, what that is and thepractice of it, and then at what
point you might teach coupleshow to do that on each other?
I'm imagining after they'velearned one way touch and
they've learned genital mappingand some of these more
foundational pieces that you'respeaking to.
Rahi (46:47):
Sure.
So to define it simply, genitalarmor is the unconscious
guarding patterns that thetissue and fascia of the body,
uh, resort to when they'refeeling a threat or a perceived
threat.
Right.
And that could be, uh, you know,I mean, the extreme example
(47:08):
would be a sexual violation, butthat could also be religious
shaming, cultural shaming, youknow, like getting, uh, uh,
whistled, whistled and, and catcalls for parts of your body
that, that you feel shy about.
So that can start to createguarding in different parts of
the body.
And, uh, what that is often isunmetabolized emotions from past
(47:30):
experiences.
So to your point, Willow, youknow, the, the, the keys before
dearmoring is, is, is, um, is,is approached really requires
understanding what the nervoussystem needs to feel safe, uh,
how to embody, I'm sorry, how toempower the body to advocate for
(47:52):
what it wants.
So it's only receiving the kindsand quality of touch it desires.
And then the mapping process.
You know, with those in place,you can start to have a safe
container again, the containeris so important to start to
release these unconsciousguarding patterns that may have
been in place since childhood.
And, and, you know, what thatdoes is it restricts your
(48:14):
capacity to really feelsensations.
So it shows up as numbness orpain or discomfort or
desensitization.
Leah (48:22):
Mm
Willow (48:23):
so is the de armoring process and practice generally
an uncomfortable one?
Or, um, can there be pleasurewoven in with it as well?
Rahi (48:36):
Right.
So, um, you know, I'm a bigadvocate of any dearmoring
session should be at least 50percent pleasurable and fun.
Otherwise, yeah, because thatresources the body to want to
inhabit itself more and givesthe incentive for the body to
continue dearmoring if there'spleasure on the other side.
(48:57):
So that's a really, really bigpiece of it.
Willow (49:00):
right.
And, and isn't it also true thatlike there's, there's genital
dearmoring, like maybe where wego into the pelvic floor and we
find these tender points and weunravel and unwind them.
But then there's also, um,there's also like in the hips
and the groin in the sacrum andthe, like in the center of the
(49:21):
glutes and the fold of theglutes, like all of the whole
kind of hip girdle can havearmor in it.
Rahi (49:29):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
So, you know, um, You know, oneof one of my teachers shares
that, uh, most pelvic armorhappens before the age of seven
and has nothing to do withsexuality.
It's
Willow (49:43):
very interesting.
Tell us more about
Rahi (49:45):
well, it's like the way the chakra systems are
developed.
It's the root chakra thatdevelops first.
And, you know, when you're threeand and your parents says, oh,
don't touch that.
Like, what contracts is yourpelvis.
Willow (49:58):
Ah.
Rahi (49:59):
And so all of those, you know, unmetabolized emotions
that, oh, my sister got moreattention than me, or, or, you
know, I couldn't play when Iwanted to, like, all of those
things can be stored there, muchless, like, you know, potty
training, like diaper
Leah (50:15):
potty training has got to be totally a big element to that
of like, transitioning frombeing able to just let go, and
then all of a sudden you have tonow control this and get to the
bathroom.
Like, how much we grip, and thenhow much we grip for the rest of
our life, I mean, how many of ushave a tight ass, right, up
tight as a home, it's your firstchakra.
Rahi (50:33):
chakra.
And, you know, let's not forget,we are sponges as children and
we're absorbing all of ourparents.
Un, unmetabolized, un, you know,un, uh, resolved, you know,
sexual issues about their owngenitalia, which we feel when
they touch us, right?
Leah (50:52):
Right.
Rahi (50:53):
But, you know, like, I mean, you know, Ariel's gone
through this incredibletransformation of dearmoring, of
her own body, and I would Yeah,I'd love to, I'd love to hear
like what that process was like,I mean, as far as like, because
like my body, of course,everyone has armor.
But, but I, my body itselfhasn't taken the journey of,
(51:15):
like, being, being fullyarmored, being armored to de
armoring.
And so I'm always like in awe ofbodies that go through that
journey.
Leah (51:26):
Yeah, Ariel, is that something you've experienced,
and do you want to share a bitabout it?
Ariel (51:29):
Okay, yeah, thank you.
Yeah, so I would say I startedto become.
I wasn't really aware of armorin my body in a new way when I
actually started training tobecome a sex bod.
I mean, I was aware of, uh, likeyears of sexual trauma that I
(51:52):
was moving through.
Um, but I hadn't really, Iwasn't aware of it to the degree
until I started becoming moreeducated on how armor can even
look and show up.
Um, and then I started reallylike working with my own body.
(52:14):
Um, just with like gentle touchand really practicing the
pillars, um, and doing a lot ofplant medicine.
Um, and those two things, Imean, it, it was over a period
of years.
really just opened me up.
(52:36):
And, um, as I was starting tobecome more attuned with my own
body and like, really be gentleand loving with it.
The types of relationships thatI was seeking out and involving
myself in also became moreloving and nurturing, which also
helped my body open more becauseI was creating a safe container
(53:00):
for myself with myself and withthe people around me.
Willow (53:03):
quite a, quite an unfolding, like an organic
unfolding and,
Ariel (53:08):
yeah,
Willow (53:09):
and journey.
And what, what would you say haslike where you're at now with
the journey, like the outcome,quote unquote, like
Ariel (53:16):
yeah, I mean, it's, it's pretty amazing, you know, like
I'm, I'm, I'm going from, uh,living mostly in disassociation
to being able to spend hoursupon hours in extended states of
arousal, being completely opento my beloved.
So it's kind of like a, uh, acomplete other side.
(53:41):
Yeah.
Willow (53:42):
it's like night and day.
Ariel (53:44):
Yeah.
Willow (53:45):
love that.
Leah (53:45):
That's awesome
Willow (53:46):
So beautiful.
So powerful.
Leah (53:49):
Well, thank you so much for the two of you being here
today.
I know people can find you atwww.DivineUnionForLovers.com
That's the website that you havetogether
Rahi (53:58):
it's actually divine.
www.DivineUnionForLovers.Com.
Leah (54:02):
Oh, thank you, www.DivineUnionForLovers.Com,
and, uh, Ariel will soon beresiding with, uh, Rahi in Santa
Monica, so, uh, really excitedfor your future events, and you
work both, you do, you doworkshops, and you also work one
on one with folks?
Ariel (54:21):
Yeah,
Rahi (54:22):
Yes,
Leah (54:23):
and are you specializing just in couples, or are you
working with individuals aswell?
Ariel (54:27):
um, yeah, we do work with couples and then I work with
individuals.
Rahi works with individuals.
Rahi (54:34):
yeah, we, we work with individuals, couples, we have,
um, a range of differentcouples, uh, retreats and, and,
uh, workshops, um, and then wehave our online course, uh,
www.DivineUnionForLovers.Com,uh, and then, Yeah, yeah.
And then, um, yeah, we'll start,uh, the retreats will likely be
in Costa Rica and here in SantaMonica.
Leah (54:57):
Oh, fabulous.
We all like to go on vacation.
And then I believe, uh, you bothhave your own websites.
Um, Ariel, you can be found atwww.SacredmoonFlower.Com.
Ariel (55:06):
Mm hmm.
Yeah
Leah (55:07):
Okay, and Rahi, yours is www.SomaticSexualWholeness.Com.
Rahi (55:11):
Correct.
Leah (55:12):
Yay!
Willow (55:13):
has a wonderful podcast that you all can check out as
well.
He just hosted Leah and I on hispodcast recently and, um, he is
a wealth of information.
So lots to learn and digest and,um, You know, reach out to, if
you've been curious about plantmedicine, these two amazing
(55:36):
human beings are very safepeople to reach out to, to
connect with.
If you're curious, even ifyou're not ready, but you're
just a little curious, I wouldrecommend both of them highly
Leah (55:48):
the name of, um, Rahi's podcast is Organic Sexuality.
Willow (55:53):
love that.
Rahi (55:54):
Thank you.
Leah (55:55):
We'll have, we'll have links in the show notes for
everyone so that you can reachout and work with these two
beautiful souls.
Next up is The Dish with Dr.
Willow and myself.
So please stay tuned.
Announcer (56:08):
Now, our favorite part, the dish.
Leah (56:12):
what fine educators they are.
I really loved their way thatthey spoke about, you know,
things that are certainly in ourrepertoire as educators, but I'm
really loving what, how theyhave developed it.
I love their eight pillars of
Willow (56:26):
The eight pillars are
Leah (56:27):
Right?
Great!
Willow (56:29):
We're going to have to use those.
Leah (56:31):
Absolutely, we'll be we'll be implementing some of that
into our own pillars somehow,someway, so stay tuned you guys.
We're probably going to have areally funny extra iteration of
our own.
Um, and I you know, the, the oneway touch, of course, is
familiar.
Our languaging is a little bitdifferent as we kind of break,
(56:51):
usually use language like thegiver and receiver, but it's
really true.
When you, when you break itdown, it's just one way touch
and how much you can discover.
In fact, it's the only way todiscover, um, so much subtle
sensation that gets bypassed andoverlooked when two people are
trying to do the same thing atthe same time.
(57:12):
How could you ever learn your,your, the things that really
open you the biggest and reallygive yourself the gift of
learning how to receive at aprofound and new level?
Willow (57:23):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I love, um, you know, the workthat they're doing with plant
medicine, and how they'reincorporating that with sexual
healing, and teaching people oneway touch, and couples who've
been together for long periodsof time, who are just Covering
new things about themselves,about their own bodies, about
their partner's bodies, learninghow to pause, learning how to
(57:45):
attune.
so so valuable and so important.
And, um, you know, theintegration of their work with
San Pedro and with Ariel usingsome ayahuasca and some of her
other, um, work as well, Ithink, you know, whenever I've
been in the field of, ofintegrating them as well, I've
just is how powerful and howopening it can be to clearing
(58:08):
old blocks, clearing things thatare holding you back from
intimacy, the fear, the shame,the doubt, the guilt, all that
shit gets to just get uprootedin a single day sometimes.
And it's just so powerful to seewhat transpires then the next
day and how much more opennessand connectedness within there
is.
So that the connection withpartner can be so much stronger.
(58:32):
So really, really would highlyrecommend checking out their
offerings for couples and, um,as well as the work that they do
with individuals.
Leah (58:42):
I mean, on the same note with or without medicine, I
think with medicine that getsreally amplified on a deep
rooted level magical way.
Um, what I love is how muchthey're helping people discover
within those pillars, like theseven pillars before
communication, really working onwhat does intimacy feel like in
(59:03):
your own body, like learning howto be good at intimacy.
That has to happen first on theinside, before you can bring it
to another person or experience.
And so.
I was really touched andinspired by how much they're
really helping people map thatout in their system before
(59:25):
engaging in the way with whichwe share it with others.
I think that's something uniqueand I look forward to expanding
on that in my own work.
Willow (59:33):
Absolutely.
And one final thing that I wantto highlight that I just loved,
um, that Rahi really shared wasthe de armoring process and what
that actually means.
Cause that's a, that's a bigword in our fields these days,
de armoring.
And so he really unpacked thatnicely and described it and, um,
shared the value of it andwhat's possible.
(59:56):
And I love that he, um, youknow, Highlighted to that, you
know, half of the session shouldbe pleasure and half should be
the, the deeper clearingbecause, um, you know, I've had
de arming work and I'm like, Oh,so painful and not pleasant, you
know, and then I've had pleasurede armoring as well.
(01:00:16):
And it's just, it's a completelydifferent experience for your
Soma.
It's so you integrate therelease of the old stuff so much
better when there's pleasureinvolved as well.
Leah (01:00:27):
Well, I think also, like, dearmoring is a word that means,
uh, that has differenttechniques for different
practitioners.
So you can't just say there'sone kind of dearmoring.
People, there's, there areschools out there that do
dearmoring.
They're all different.
So there's no, like, one way todescribe dearmoring per
practitioner.
Um, there's not a ton of schoolsthat are doing it.
(01:00:49):
I know of maybe two or threesystems.
There might be more out there.
Uh, so, it's very important thatif you are feeling called to
explore dearmoring that youinterview a number of people and
find out what that means to themand their process so that you
are choosing the one that mostresonates with you.
(01:01:09):
Do not get confused that whensomeone says dearmoring that
it's the same thing for everypractitioner.
Willow (01:01:14):
Yeah, and then also sometimes people are doing de
armoring, but they don't call itthat.
So, you know, the pelvic thepelvic floor work that I do is,
it's the same idea.
It's the same thing, it's thesame concept,
Leah (01:01:26):
All right, everyone, have a beautiful, beautiful day.
We'll see you on the flip side.
And by the way, do not be, um,what's the word?
Willow (01:01:35):
Timid.
Leah (01:01:36):
Oh, please do not be stingy on your likes and your
comments, like we really needthose in order to help the show
grow.
Um, it's just takes such a shortamount of time to really help us
expand, um, our viewership.
So please be generous with thosecomments.
We so appreciate them and weread every single one.
(01:01:57):
With that, have a gorgeousafternoon, morning, or evening.
Love, love, love.
Thanks for tuning in.
This episode was hosted byTantric Sex Master Coach and
Positive Psychology Facilitator,Leah Piper, as well as by
Chinese and Functional MedicineDoctor and Taoist Taxology
Teacher, Dr.
Willow Brown.
Don't forget, your comments,likes, subscribes, and
(01:02:18):
suggestions matter.
Let's realize this new worldtogether.
Hey there, Sex Explorers.
You have landed on the SexReimagined podcast.
My name is Leah Piper.
I'm your Tantra expert here andthe co host of the show.
Willow (00:10):
Yeah, and I'm Dr.
Willa Brown, your Taoist expert.
And today we interviewed tworeally incredible souls.
They are a divine union couple,Ariel Sezbo and Rahi Chun.
Ariel is a certified somatic sexeducator, sexological body
worker, and psychedelictherapist.
She's known as the cosmicmidwife of the soul, holding
(00:33):
sacred spaces fortransformational sexual
embodiment and evolution.
And Rahi Chun is also acertified sex educator and
sexological bodywork whospecializes in genital
dearmoring, which you're goingto hear all about.
They love holding space,individually and together for
couples worldwide and with theironline courses, divine Union for
(00:56):
Lovers.
So check them out.
You're gonna love this podcastso much to learn.
Leah (01:02):
So please tune in, turn on, and fall in love with Rahi
and Ariel.
Announcer (01:08):
Welcome to the Sex Reimagined Podcast, where sex is
shame free and pleasure forward.
Let's get into the show.
Leah (01:17):
Okay.
Welcome to the sex reimaginedpodcast Rahi and Ariel.
We're really happy to have youtoday.
Rahi (01:22):
Thank you so much for having us.
Ariel (01:24):
Yeah.
So great to be here.
Hmm.
Willow (01:29):
have been working together, um, and they are life
partners and they've been reallyguiding couples through major
phenomenal transformationalexperiences since I think, uh,
March of last year, but bothhave very deep and extensive.
backgrounds in sexual healing,sexual health.
(01:49):
And so I'm just, I'd love tostart with, um, I asked Aria a
little bit earlier, you know,what, how did you guys meet?
I'd love to hear like moredetails of that story and how
you guys came together.
The personal stuff.
We want to hear the personalstuff.
Leah (02:04):
We love a love story
Rahi (02:06):
Sure.
Well, you know, the question is,is which lifetime do you want to
start with?
Because we've actually, yeah, Imean, we've, um,
Leah (02:14):
which let's start with this lifetime
Rahi (02:16):
okay.
Okay.
Okay.
Well, in this lifetime, um, ourpaths crossed about four years
ago.
four or five years ago, as we'reboth, you know, in the same
field, as you mentioned, we'reboth certified as somatic sex
educators, sexological bodyworkers.
And, um, we were just intriguedby each other's work.
I've always been drawn.
(02:36):
I mean, from that point on, andAriel's been kind of a big
instigator for me as far as myevolution and understanding of
the, um, wisdom and power ofplant medicines.
Um, and so, you know, becauseshe's been so immersed in that
world, I've sought out hercounsel as, you know, I've been
exploring that personally andalso, From about five years ago,
(03:00):
I cannot tell you how manyclients have said my sexual
trauma, my, you know, the, my,the images I've, I've gotten
clarity from an ayahuascaceremony.
And so I've just kind of leanedinto finding out more and more.
And recently, you know, we'vestarted combining, uh,
grandfather San Pedro with um,sexual healing.
(03:20):
Um, so I've started seeking outher counsel back then.
She was seeking out, um, youknow, uh, I have an expertise in
genital de armoring.
I, I teach it worldwide.
And so Ariel's taken my trainingand my, um, my course.
And so, and then it was just,you know, when it's obvious,
it's obvious.
And so, you know, we've had manyconversations about like, Power
(03:42):
dynamics and, and kind of ourrelational dynamics.
Cause you know, I've sought outher counsel.
She set out mine.
We really wanted it to be aclean container for, you know,
what wanted to happen to happen.
And it's just really happenedvery organically and beautifully
since
Leah (04:02):
Ariel what would you add to that to that love story?
Ariel (04:05):
Hmm.
Well, I would add that, uh, itlike really started to take off
at a really cool coming togetherof a bunch of colleagues, like
experimenting with theintersections of psychedelics,
plant medicines and sacredintimacy.
(04:28):
Um, and that was, yeah, so thatwas a really, like, that kind of
like put us on the magic carpetthat we've been riding since
then.
Leah (04:36):
so
Willow (04:36):
were you guys both like looking for your life partner?
Were you kind of just happy asyou were?
Where were you at before it allsparked?
Rahi (04:45):
well, I, I probably like up to a year before we got
together, like, with every plantmedicine journey I'd done, the
intention was to clear, youknow, past patterns, you know,
like, um, I mean, so manypatterns of me being drawn to
unavailable people, you know,that kind of a thing and really
needing to let go of that,letting go of kind of cord
(05:07):
cutting with, with maternalattachments, you know, like all
of that stuff.
And then, you know, it, therewas the spaciousness and
openness for, you know, thisunion to come in.
And, and I must say, you know,like, I'm guessing your, your
listeners have experiencedsomething like this.
It's like when we met.
(05:28):
There was this almost anenergetic communication
happening between our bodieswhere like I would touch her
shoulder and then intuitively myhand would want to go to her hip
and then she would say, oh, myhip wanted that touch there.
It was this kind of likenonverbal communication that I
had never experienced before.
Um, yeah, it was wild.
Willow (05:50):
Wow.
Mm
Leah (05:51):
really relate to that.
I remember when, um, my husbandand I were just getting to know
each other.
He was actually a client, so Iwas one of those big, bad, taboo
teachers who dated our client.
After I fired him, by the way,um, but it was really, uh,
amazing, like, we would bewalking down the street and,
like, our hips would just keepon magnetizing towards each
(06:14):
other.
It was like we couldn't walkside by side.
Without our hips touching, youknow, and then like we're on
this whale watching thing andlike, we couldn't help, but just
him to come behind me at first,like hands, just on either side
of the rails, right.
Me in the center.
And then the next thing, youknow, the pelvis and the hips,
they just want to connect.
It's so yummy.
(06:34):
And yeah, I love thatgravitational pull.
between lovers wanting tomagnify, magnetize each other.
Really, really sexy stuff.
Um, okay.
So I have a question because weget this every once in a while.
We're seeing more and morepractitioners who have had
experiences in the plantmedicine world who are also sex
(06:56):
educators or in the sexualhealing space starting to blend
the two together.
And I have been a part of twodifferent types of traditions.
Some traditions that go.
Those two don't mix.
You do plant medicine, you'reopening up a can of worms, they
keep really the genders veryseparated when they're doing
medicine.
(07:16):
So we've got that type oftradition.
And then we have these moreancient mystery school
traditions where sacraments Mindaltering substances have been a
part of the tradition for, forthousands of years.
So I'm really curious about whatyou've been experiencing
blending the two.
What is at risk when you dothat?
(07:38):
What are the complications?
What are the dangers?
What are the taboos?
And then also what the, uh, whatthe miracles have been that
you've observed, either insideyour own experiences or those
with people that you're leading.
Ariel (07:52):
Hmm.
Yeah, well, I think, you know,the, the danger.
is that there's just more riskinvolved, which also means that
there's greater, like, formativepotential.
Willow (08:06):
Mm hmm.
Ariel (08:07):
Um, and I think it's like, it's two different
conversations when we're talkingabout personal use of
combination and serving it toclients in a combination.
Um, I use it a lot in mypersonal use.
Um, and it's amazing andexpansive and transformative.
And I'm also mindful of thedosage that I'm using.
(08:30):
And I think different things areavailable at different doses,
whether you're on your lighterdose or a higher dose.
Um, and I think, you know, okay,when I think about combining it
for clients, you know, that caneven look like so many different
ways.
Um, when I facilitate ayahuascaretreats.
(08:50):
It's not while people are in themedicine, but outside of that
space, I might lead, um, asomatic embodiment journey that
is inviting them to get in touchwith their sexual energy,
touching their bodies, um, maybebeing blindfolded and really
just, um, getting into theirsenses and their pleasure.
And The transformations that Isee with that, the feedback that
(09:14):
I get from that is like, this isso helpful.
It's opening me more to themedicine.
It's also helping me integratewhat the medicine is bringing to
me.
Um,
Leah (09:24):
So let me just make sure, I want to clarify this for the
audience, is that, um, when itcomes to ayahuasca, for
instance, you're not guidingthem towards, you know,
connecting to their sexualenergy during their high of
being on the medicine.
You're using it as anintegration tool to help them
integrate their experience fromayahuasca and also in
(09:45):
preparation for their nextayahuasca journey that I'm
imagining they're drinking morethan one time on in a retreat
like this.
Ariel (09:51):
Correct.
Leah (09:52):
Gotcha.
Ariel (09:53):
Yeah.
Willow (09:54):
Yeah.
I have found that to be sopowerful as well, simply because
ayahuasca herself is such aforce of divine feminine energy.
And so you know, when we're whenwe're getting in touch with
Shakti, and so so leading andguiding people into these
somatic experiences in betweenjourneys on a, you know, weekend
(10:16):
retreat like that, um, Itreally, it really awakens what
the medicine has to offer insuch a different and unique way.
It's really profound.
Um, I'm curious if you guys everdo, uh, I know you work with
Wachuma, which is San Pedro, um,as well.
And I'm curious if you, are everblending the two at the same
(10:39):
time.
You know, if you're ever doing,let's say pelvic floor work, um,
de armoring while somebody is onthe medicine at that moment, or
if it's always, um, you know,we're going to do medicine today
and we're going to do pelvicfloor work tomorrow.
Leah (10:56):
And I just want to preface it, I, I want to make sure that
we're not jumping too far aheadusing language, that listeners
have no idea what we're talkingabout.
For instance, there may bepeople listening that have never
heard of ayahuasca before.
There may be people listeningthat don't know what San Pedro
is and what it does.
There are lots of people whoprobably don't know what we're
talking about when you'retalking about de armoring
genitals or pelvic floor releasework.
So we don't want to go into hugelong descriptions, but as we're
(11:19):
sort of putting language outthere that a beginner has never
heard of before.
If you could just give us asnippet explanation of what
you're referring to so thatwe're not losing anybody in the
conversation.
Ariel (11:30):
Yeah, so, you know, Rahi and I have been at a retreat
together that we held wherewe've combined, but this is
couples working with oneanother.
We're not working on them.
Um, and it's a low dose and it'svery profound and powerful and
you know, um, that particularmedicine.
(11:54):
Which is, uh, from a cactus, theactive compound in it is
mescaline.
Um, it's not a medicine thatgenerally gives people lots of
visions.
And especially at a lower dose,it really, wachuma literally,
which is another name for thesame medicine, san pedro, it
literally means without a head.
(12:15):
So it brings you into your bodyand helps you connect with your
heart and your feelings and yoursensations more.
Um,
Leah (12:22):
Does it make it more erotic when you are more
connected to your sensations oris it maybe processing things
that are not
Willow (12:30):
Stuck.
Yeah.
Like
Ariel (12:31):
I think it can be both.
It's kind of whatever the personneeds is what's going to happen
Willow (12:36):
Mm hmm.
Ariel (12:37):
and also guided by their intentions.
Willow (12:39):
Yeah.
Ariel (12:40):
Um, and.
Yeah, so like, you know, how wehave had experiences together of
combining them.
I mean, I can, I can speak frommy practice that the majority of
the work that I do is actuallykeeping the two separate.
Um, and that if we are going tocombine them, there has to be a
(13:02):
lot of trust.
It's definitely not gonna happenthe first time that we're
meeting or the second timeprobably.
Um, but, and, and the reasonthat this is, is because.
These medicines blur boundaries,and it can make consent even
more nuanced and layered than italready is.
(13:26):
And that's why you need to be socareful, um, with how you
approach this, the way it'sintroduced, um, what dosage are
you using, if you are combiningthe two things.
Does the person even haveexperience with the medicine
before doing this?
Should you really be combiningtwo potent medicines if the
person doesn't already haveexperience with each potent
(13:48):
medicine on their own?
Willow (13:50):
And when you say two potent medicines, you're
speaking to sexual healing andthe San Pedro or Wachuma.
Um, and so when, Rahi, were yougoing to
Rahi (14:01):
yeah, yeah.
I just wanted to, um, highlightthe experience of this couples
retreat.
It was two days.
The first day was really spenton creating a safe container.
So, you know, Leah what, whatyou would ask what you had
touched on earlier.
What that looks like is reallyunderstanding, you know,
(14:21):
something that we call the eightpillars of intimacy.
They're really principles andvalues of slowing down, of
pausing, of noticing what'sreally happening within your
body, of attuning to what it isthat your body's feeling moment
by moment.
So the first day was reallyestablishing that safety and
also.
(14:42):
Yeah, and also encouraging, youknow, as Ariel said, these were
three couples, so they knew eachother.
I mean, it was a range ofcouples.
To be honest with you, onecouple was on their third date.
They came to this three day, youknow, yeah, and
Leah (14:55):
I love
Willow (14:56):
let's go.
Who cares about couples therapy?
Let's do this.
we're going all in.
Leah (15:01):
we're building a foundation.
Yeah.
Rahi (15:04):
yes, by by diving into the deep end, which is exactly what
they did.
But going to your point earlieras to, you know, whether the San
Pedro made it, you know, madethem more erotic.
It was really interestingbecause after two days of
facilitating one way touch,which included.
genital mapping, right?
So really educating the, uh,the, um, erogenous anatomy via a
(15:27):
felt sense.
We found that the medicine justmet each couple where they were
ready to go deeper.
So there was one couple that hadbeen together for 13 years and
this, the healing ceremony thatwe witnessed them go through was
the deeply emotional andhealing.
(15:48):
Right, where, where the receiverasked the giver to apologize to
different areas of their vulva,
Willow (15:55):
Mm.
Powerful.
Rahi (15:57):
the couple that were on their third date.
I mean, she said she had themost ecstatic orgasm of her
life, and that's what they wereready for.
So we found that the grandfatherSan Pedro really met, like, each
couple, each body, after twodays of one way touch, like,
where it was ready to go next,in a much deeper way.
Leah (16:20):
love that.
You know, there's a couplethings that I would love to go
deeper on with what you said.
I would want to hear more about,A, what container is.
You know, we hear that word alot.
Container or holding space.
in a lot of the therapeuticcircles.
Um, but how does someone createa container?
And then what are these eightpillars of intimacy?
Willow (16:41):
And also, I'm curious, you know, in this particular
container that you set for thesethree couples, were they on
their own in their own separateroom or was everyone in a room
together when they werepracticing on the San Pedro?
Rahi (16:56):
Yeah, so a couple of things.
Containers, um, uh, the eightpillars, and how we facilitated
the couples.
What do you want to take, Ariel?
Ariel (17:09):
I'll do the eight pillars, but you start with
something
Rahi (17:11):
Okay, so as far as the containers, so, you know, in, in
plant medicine work, there's alot of talk about set and
setting and I feel like it'sreally applicable to sacred
sexuality containers as well.
Um, you know, there are so, youknow, we started the container
with a zoom for everyone to getto know each other and to share
the intentions, but thecontainer is really defined by
(17:33):
the agreements that everyoneshares.
So, you know, there are certainagreements that I think are kind
of.
You know, make sense and and andare applicable to most
containers, confidentiality,boundaries, self care, self
responsibility.
But we're really big on invitingemotions into the container
because we know that, you know,what's going to cause a
(17:56):
breakthrough within a couple orwithin a body is to kind of
metabolize whatever emotionthat's been creating an obstacle
in the in the energy flow in inthe body's response, and so
we're really big on inviting allkinds of emotions.
And with that kind of tone set,um, the container and you know,
(18:19):
it really invites and encouragesthe emotions.
And we found that it wasactually the men.
They were three heterosexualcouples who were there.
Yeah.
Deeply vulnerable from the getgo.
And that really sets a tone.
Um, and then we're encouraging.
Yeah.
Yeah, it was really inspiring.
And then we kept, you know, theagreements are like on a
(18:40):
whiteboard and we continue torefer back to it.
So it's almost like the valuesand principles of, you know,
being emotionally open, beingvulnerable, like taking self
responsibility are returned toand reminded of again and again
throughout the weekend.
Willow (18:57):
I love that.
So those are the agreements thateveryone kind of comes up with
together.
So you kind of are like writingthese agreements down as people
are throwing them out in thebeginning to to set the tone for
the entire weekend.
Rahi (19:10):
tone.
Yes, the tone is so important.
Willow (19:13):
Yeah,
Ariel (19:14):
Yeah, and I like to think of, too, the container as really
what's predictable, becausethere's so much that's
unpredictable when we're goingdeeply into our bodies and our
emotions.
So the container is what's goingto anchor people so that they do
have something to, like, hold onto, know is reliable so that
they can go into what's unknown,and for a lot of people that can
(19:36):
feel pretty scary.
Willow (19:38):
Is there any other, um, like, building of the container
that you guys do as far as likecalling in the elements, calling
in spiritual support, calling inguides, calling in guardians,
that kind of thing?
Ariel (19:53):
Yeah, I mean, um, I would say there's a good amount that
we do that is unseen by theparticipants and then there's
some of it that we do that isseen and with the participants.
Willow (20:03):
Gotcha.
Yeah.
So you kind of, even before theyeven show up, have already set
the, the field, quote unquote,so to speak.
Yeah, love that.
Rahi (20:11):
Yeah, I love, I love your languaging in that Willow.
So we, Ariel and I haveorganically, um, kind of
cultivated our own rituals.
Uh, you know, calling in ourguides, their guides, um, and
our own kind of energycirculation to make sure that
we're holding the containerclean and then, you know, from
there we invite the containerwithin the organism of the
(20:33):
group.
Willow (20:34):
I love that.
I'm curious before we move onfrom container setting and
setting tone and space and allof that and holding space, like
what, what have yourparticipants come to you
afterwards with in, in referenceto that?
Have they come to you and saidthings like, God, you guys hold
amazing space or wow, thecontainer you set was so
(20:56):
powerful or, or, or that we allset together.
Thank you for helping us createco created or what, anything
along those lines.
Did they notice?
Ariel (21:06):
Yeah, I think
Rahi (21:07):
Yeah, the, you know, we did a cacao ceremony recently
and all of the feedback.
Like the common thread was aboutthe container and how the
container allowed them to, fortheir inner children to come out
and be seen by their partners,for example.
You know, or that they weresurprised that, you know, things
that they didn't think would,uh, you know, things that
(21:29):
surprised them in regards totheir vulnerability and they
referred back to the, um, to thesafety of the container.
Ariel (21:37):
Yeah, yeah, and I think a lot of what also makes the
container feel that way forparticipants has to do with the
nervous system of thefacilitators.
Um,
Willow (21:48):
Yeah, good point.
Ariel (21:49):
if you're really grounded, people might not even
be conscious that that's whatthey're responded to, but then
they can kind of co regulatewith the most grounded nervous
systems in the room.
Willow (22:04):
Mm hmm.
Mm hmm.
Beautiful.
Leah (22:06):
Great.
Let's, uh, let's jump to, um,unless you had a follow up.
Yeah.
Rahi (22:11):
The eight pillars of intimacy.
Ariel (22:14):
The Eight
Willow (22:14):
Ariel, take it away.
Ariel (22:17):
I love the Eight Pillars of Intimacy.
Um, I feel like these are reallythe like skills that all of us
can build to have a deeplyintimate and satisfying
relationship with ourselves andthen of course other beings and
the world around us in general.
So the pillars are first slowingdown so that you don't miss cues
(22:38):
from your own body, otherpeople's bodies.
Um, then pausing, so like takinga sacred pause so that you can
then notice what is evenhappening for you, your
sensations, your emotions, andthen attune to what's happening,
and then therefore what youmight need, want, desire.
Um, and then from there, acceptit.
(23:00):
Like, accept what is true foryou moment to moment.
This is one a lot of peoplestruggle with, because we might
not like what's happening.
We might want to push it awayand suppress it.
Um, and then trust it.
Like, trust what your body istelling you.
Your physical body, youremotional body.
And then value it.
Value it enough to take up spacewith it.
(23:21):
And then communicate.
Whatever you need to with theperson you're in relationship
with, or make any adjustmentsnecessary.
Willow (23:29):
Mm.
Mm.
Do you guys have a, um, what isit, an acronym for your Eight
Pillars so people can rememberthem easily?
Ariel (23:36):
you know, but we're like in the midst of kind of creating
a visual of some sort, you
Leah (23:40):
I like that.
Ariel (23:41):
know?
Willow (23:41):
I love it.
so we've got, um, slowing down,pausing, noticing, attuning,
accepting, I forget what's afterthat?
Ariel (23:54):
Trusting, valuing, communicating.
Willow (23:58):
Ah.
They,
Leah (23:59):
we get all eight?
Willow (24:00):
order.
Rahi (24:01):
Yes, that's all eight.
Leah (24:02):
Okay.
Okay, great.
Great.
That's beautiful.
Willow (24:05):
Leah and I always say three pillars to intimacy, which
is trust presence andvulnerability, you know So it's
sort of a more simplifiedversion of what you guys have
created, but I love that.
I love those eight pillars Thoseare fantastic and they build on
each other
Rahi (24:22):
Yes.
Leah (24:22):
especially love the slowing down and the pausing.
You know, it's like really likebe even more in the moment.
And you can't do that if you'regoing so fast, you know, to like
really be in the moment.
You've got to be right there.
And that is not a fastprocessing experience.
That's like really here.
Willow (24:42):
Yeah, I love I love that you guys are bringing the pause
in because I feel like that issuch one of the most
Leah (24:52):
Underrated.
Willow (24:53):
valuable and yeah, underrated, like phenomenal, uh,
practices that we could have inall of life.
And, um, I really learned itstudying pre and perinatal
psychology and it was, they, Ithink they have seven, seven
things that like help you comecloser together inside of
intimacy and relationship.
And the pause was justhighlighted over and over again.
(25:14):
So ever since I did thattraining, however many years
ago, you know, I've really been,introducing it to people and
nobody thinks about it.
Nobody knows about the pause.
And so everyone who's listening,like it's okay to pause.
And that pause could be threeminutes.
It could be three days.
It could be three years.
Like the pause is as long as youneed the pause to be.
(25:37):
So that noticing piece that youhave in there as well as like.
Really, you know, noticing andattuning, like, am I done with
my pause yet?
Am I really, truly done with mypause?
Or am I feeling pressure fromoutside to be done with my pause
earlier?
So, that pause can be such asacred, sacred practice in all
(25:59):
of life, and especially insexuality, because There's, you
know, in, in sort of traditionalsexuality, there's such a frenzy
and a fastness to it.
Like, let's hurry up and get tothe finish line.
And there's so much missed, feltsense because of that, um, lack
of being able to take sexualsovereignty and, and really
(26:19):
pause.
Leah (26:20):
I think, too, there's something really interesting
that we are in a habit of, whichis going so fast, we're not
feeling or attuning to thesensations or to our rising
desires or to what we need thatmay be different from what we're
getting.
And so to be able not to rushthrough that or to skip through
(26:40):
it, I've watched over the years,I think, especially with vulva
owners in particular, abandon.
their needs in, in sexualexperiences.
They're like rushing through it,um, almost to just, only,
sometimes just to please theother person.
And therefore,
Willow (27:00):
right?
Leah (27:01):
just get it over, but like not really, it's that, it's just
to get it over is one thing, butI think half of that is due to
the fact that we're notinvestigating.
What, what our real desires are,what the potential of what it is
that we want that's different.
And so we end up landing in thisplace of just knowing what we
don't want, instead ofdiscovering what we do want.
(27:23):
And so I love this idea of, uh,the combination of slowing down,
attuning, looking, accepting.
Um, and that accepting is very,can be very crunchy.
I think what you sort of werereferring to Ariel, it's like,
um, A, just being with notgetting maybe what we need or B,
(27:45):
not knowing what we really need.
Um, and having to like be inthat place of discovery.
And sometimes that takes time tofind out.
What, how, what would you add tothat, Rahi?
Rahi (27:57):
Well, I just love how intentionally sequenced these
pillars are because they dobuild on each other and it
starts with slowing down and toyour both of your points to
pausing, you know, I we bothAriel and I are very, very aware
and like love to point out tocouples how as soon as you know,
(28:18):
one one person's body feelsarousal.
It's almost like they're on aUnstoppable train track to
orgasm and they're missing outon like the the expansive
terrains along the way.
And what I love about pausing isyou know, like it takes into
account how moment by momenteverything's are changing, you
(28:39):
know sensations feelings desirescan shift moment to moment.
And the slowing down and pausingreally takes, I mean, really
every step of the eight pillarstakes all of that into
consideration.
And, um, you know, one of ourparticipants pointed out that
the first seven are actuallyinternal experiences until the
communicating comes at theeighth.
(29:02):
And that's how much like selfinquiry and examination we feel
like is necessary for people toreally engage and be satiated in
the desires that their bodywants.
Willow (29:13):
Mm.
And now, have you noticed thatin this recent event that you
did with the, with the plantmedicine, was there a particular
pillar like, like the pause oracceptance that that medicine
really helped people, um, youknow, settle into more inside of
(29:35):
themselves?
Ariel (29:36):
I don't, I don't know if it's really coming for me as a
pillar.
It feels more just like the,like the, the truth, the deepest
emotions just came to thesurface.
Willow (29:48):
Mm.
Rahi (29:51):
So that kind of like reflects all of the pillars
really,
Willow (29:55):
Right.
Rahi (29:56):
to get in touch with what your true authentic emotions
are, you know, you really, you,I think, like, unconsciously, we
are going, we're either, we'reeither rushing through those
eight pillars or we're overoverriding those eight pillars,
right?
But to really slow down theprocess invites that kind of
emotional, um, excavation andhonoring.
Leah (30:18):
Lovely.
So now let's find out how you'refacilitating these couples in
the classroom.
Back to Dr.
Willow's original question awhile back.
Rahi (30:28):
Right, right.
Well, um, the the space, whichwas held in my space here, um,
allowed for each couple to havethe privacy of their own
bedroom, right?
Where, whereas we met and demoedeach one way touch practice in
the living area.
So, the big circle, the openingcircle, the closing circle, the
(30:50):
group shares, we had a greatspace in the living area, but
then each couple had the, the,the privacy of their own room to
really go as deep or as wide or,or however, however their
exploration carried them.
Willow (31:04):
Oh, that's nice.
So there was, there was like acohesive group experience and
there was option to just goprivate and do your own thing.
Love that.
Leah (31:15):
oh, well one of the things I know was on my list to dig in
deep with, uh, was talking aboutextended states of arousal and
how you guide people into that.
What does that mean to the twoof you?
What does that mean to yourstudents?
Ariel (31:33):
Yeah, so extended states of arousal are really like
luxuriating in Low states ofarousal, medium states of
arousal, high states of arousalwithout going over the edge.
So if we think about pleasure ona dial from zero to ten, like
zero being like not reallyaroused, ten being there's a
(31:55):
release in orgasm, then like,what is it like to stay for a
long period of time in three?
Or what about five?
Or what about seven or eight?
Um, and What I find,particularly in the low and
(32:15):
medium states, is that a lot ofunmetabolized emotional material
will come to the surface.
It's almost like the arousal,right?
It like feels good.
So it opens the system and thenthings just start coming up.
And if you've, if you're in acontainer that you've created
(32:35):
with the intention of likeallowing these things to arise
and tend to them, it can belike.
Whoa, unbelievable metabolizingand healing can take place of
what arises, I find in the, whenlike luxuriating spending time
in the higher states of arousal,like, maybe like.
(32:56):
6, 7, 8, 9, it, it can becomethis like, like one with the
universe, blissful in a cloud,like consciousness expanding,
all boundaries have dissolvedbetween me, my partner, and the
(33:16):
world around me.
Leah (33:17):
Yeah, very transcendent.
Ariel (33:19):
Mm hmm.
Willow (33:20):
I love that space.
That's best.
Ariel (33:22):
Hmm.
Mm
Leah (33:24):
but I just want to add too, I think sometimes like
we're always in a rush.
I think sometimes, especiallylike when you look at like
tantric sort of philosophies andstuff, I think a lot of people
get carried away in this desireto want to reach like eight and
nine, eight and nine, likethat's the ultimate.
And it's true that thosetranscendent states have a level
of profundity that is verydifferent from what we have
(33:47):
access to in the lower numbers,but I think what's really
beautiful about the lowernumbers is that they're so,
they're less investigated, andbecause they're not so colorful
all the time, like they're notsweeping you away, you can have
experiences of self realization.
There can be a certain amount ofself acceptance.
And like an acknowledgement thatthere's bliss here too.
(34:11):
That we don't always have to bein the rush to get up to the
higher numbers.
It's like, but who am I at a 2.
2?
What, what does the sensation inthe back of my throat compared
to the tip of my clitoris feellike at a, at a 3.
1?
And can I be as in love?
Can I bring sort of a sense ofeuphoria and bliss to these more
(34:35):
common, less exalted places?
I think there's a reallyinteresting challenge there to
invite the seeker to explore,um, that sometimes for people it
almost seems like it'sintolerable, you know what I
mean?
Because we get so goal oriented
Willow (34:51):
because, you want to get higher.
Leah (34:53):
because we're valuing higher is better.
And I think to allow people tocome into these places that are
less extraordinary helps us seelife differently.
It, it, it, then when we extendoutward, out of the sexual
realm, into the other sectors ofour life, not all of life has to
(35:13):
be one bliss goal.
We can actually see, like, thebeauty in boredom.
We can see the, the beauty inthe mundane.
We can see, we can look for thebeauty where most of the time
we're not consciously choosingto do so.
That's my little tangent.
Willow (35:27):
that's a great tangent, Leah.
I think one of the things that'sreally powerful about both, um,
sacred sexual healing work andplant medicine individually, and
also together is we get the.
It's, it almost like offers usmore permission to jump between
those things.
Like it's okay to go up and hangout in the eight, nine for a
(35:48):
while and then come back down tothe three, four and just hang
out there for awhile, you know?
And so it doesn't always have tobe like you're climbing a ladder
and you can't go back to lowerstages.
And it's, it's almost like in myexperience, you have more
appreciation for those lowerstages, you know, of arousal.
Um, When, when you've, you know,when you're just coming off of a
(36:12):
big rush from an eight orsomething like that.
Rahi (36:15):
Essentially what we're doing with couples is
deconstructing the defaultconditioned physiological and
psychological response wherearousal has to lead to orgasm or
arousal has to go to search somekind of result.
We want to expand and just openthe playing field so that you
(36:35):
can go from a 3 to an 8 to a 5to a 9 and those lower states,
you know, as you both.
Uh, you know, beautifullyarticulated.
There's so many untappedterrains to explore there, but
at the same time, once we startexploring the eight zone, we
realize, you know, there is an8.
125.
(36:56):
There is an 8.
1226, you know, like the eightto nine starts to elongate.
And then what we love doing isafter a lovemaking session of an
8.
9 meditate.
And just be still and go aboutour day with that vibrant, you
know, that with that frequency.
Right?
(37:16):
So that we're going about andyou know, we go to Whole Foods
and all of a sudden everyone'strying to help us for some
reason.
You know what I mean?
Willow (37:23):
And everyone's smiling
Rahi (37:24):
Yeah.
every everyone is giving usattention.
And then we come back and thenwhen we start making love again,
it, it, it picks up from that,you know, eight zone and we
continue to elongate.
Right.
What is actually possible andwhat kind of states of
consciousness, you know, are ourvessels have the capacity for.
Leah (37:44):
Oh, I love that.
I love this, this worddeconstruct.
It's allowing us to actually,um, this is where I think
pleasure really becomes a pathof self realization where we can
take a look at arousal andallow.
And stretch it out like taffy.
I always tell people, look,we're so obsessed with the
destination that we'reforgetting that the best part of
(38:05):
the journey is going on theride.
And you don't want the ride tojust be one direction.
We're just going up, up, up, up,up.
The ride has got to have someHills.
We got to have some, we got tolike.
do a turnabout.
We need to, we need to have someroundabouts turned into those
hills and those valleys andcurving around the mountains.
We want, and, and that's reallywhere I think people become the
(38:26):
best lovers is when they knowhow to take someone's system on
a ride.
Because that's what really thiswhole thing around putting love
into our bodies and usingarousal as our playground, it's
about being on a ride.
And the thing that I think is sodangerous in our And this time
that we're living in is our, isour need and our chase of
(38:48):
dopamine dumps.
It's like, give me that nexthit, grab my attention with the
way that we're looking atscreens and the way that we're
so hungry for information.
We're actually not allowing ourbody to go down.
It's like, we can't just havepeak.
Peaks, peaks, we actually needto go down healthfully.
Otherwise we're robbingourselves of dopamine and we're
(39:09):
going to experience things likedepression and anxiety and these
other negative states ofemotions by now allowing
ourselves to take and dial downour system.
To actually allow ourselves togo through hard things.
To feel everything that comeswith an obstacle not being a
chase to just get over theobstacle But take our time there
(39:32):
like allow everything that lifehas to give us and not only be
chasing these dopamine dumps.
Which I think when we're chasingorgasm and this is where things
like sex addiction and loveaddiction and other things
become problematic because we'rechasing the hit.
And I love what you're sayingRahi because when we can slow
things down And we allowourselves to actually stop
(39:55):
before we have the climax.
We stay at a moment of higharousal, and then we allow this
meditative experience to happen,and then we go do the mundane,
right?
We go to the grocery store.
I think what happens, which isjust such a beautiful
phenomenon, is we're learninghow to take that turn on.
and make it a life experience sothat we're turned on.
(40:17):
We're taking that turn on intothe world.
And you're right, people arenoticing because we're lit up
from the inside and that ismagnetic.
And when we are living a turnedon life, there's an osmosis,
there's mirror neurons that wecan then use to turn on other
people.
So we're giving them permissionto also be turned on and I just
(40:38):
think that's kind of reallybeautific in its radiance.
Willow (40:41):
It's an arousal ripple.
Rahi (40:42):
Mm
Leah (40:43):
an arousal ripple!
Rahi (40:44):
an arousal ripple and we're shifting from orgasm to
orgasmic states of being
Leah (40:51):
Yeah.
Willow (40:52):
Mm hmm.
Leah (40:53):
yeah, and we're taking that peace we feel in that
place, that feeling ofcontentment, that feeling of
presence, and we're letting thatbe present in the world, which
is something I think we'rereally in need of, is this
experience of others in apeaceful place, you know, like,
because don't we feel betterWhen we're sitting next to
(41:15):
someone who has, who'sexperiencing contentment and
peace, doesn't that also give uspermission to like settle down
into our own nervous system thatmay be feeling a bit whelmed or
under resourced?
Um, so I feel like from like auniversal level, this has a
ripple effect in the world, notjust for our own being, or maybe
(41:38):
the effect it has on our lover,but really how it can affect,
um, a stranger.
Rahi (41:43):
Totally.
Totally Yeah, and, and it doesrequire, you know, like, like,
why are we so fixated on orgasm,or like, you know, there's
generations now, their sex ed isporn, and the, the, the
glorified shot is what theycall, quote unquote, the money
shot.
And that's when the party ends.
I just, I never understood.
(42:04):
Why is that the money shot?
That means the party's over.
You know,
Leah (42:07):
that's such a good point.
Rahi (42:09):
but, but it really, you know, we, we, it, it invites us
to examine like, what is, what'sour sexual ego and identity
invested in?
Is it the orgasm?
Or is it, you know, as you'respeaking to, really this deep,
profound peace that can spreadthroughout, you know, your
family, your friends, yourcommunity, kind of throughout
(42:29):
the world.
Leah (42:30):
Yeah, so I'm curious, but I don't, you know, Willow, I
want to make sure that you don'thave something biting at the bit
before I ask another question.
Okay, So, I'm curious about whenpeople are contacting you, what
are they, you know, because mostof the time people are
contacting us to work with usbecause they're facing a problem
in their life.
(42:51):
There's something that they,they feel called to work on.
So what are some of theproblems?
What are, what are, what's thepain?
What's the story of, of people'spain that they're coming to you
asking for support and helpwith?
Ariel (43:05):
Well, I think it like, you know, there's different
contexts, but it's always comesback to wanting deeper
connection.
Leah (43:15):
Hmm.
Okay.
Willow (43:16):
Yeah.
That's at
Ariel (43:17):
wanting satisfying connection,
Willow (43:19):
Mm hmm.
Mm
Leah (43:23):
what it strips down to, but I would like to know a
little bit more about thecontext, because I think for the
listener, it will help themfeel, yeah, that's what I'm
struggling with.
Can you say a little about thecontext?
Because I feel like that's whatpeople connect to first, and
then it's the realization thatwhat they're hungry for is
connection.
Ariel (43:41):
Yeah.
So I can give a couple examplesthat are coming to mind for me
now are like, uh, patterns ofenduring between couples.
Like Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Doing things that they're notactually really wanting, but not
knowing how to change it orexpress it to their partner.
Um, there can be like, um,people who are struggling, are
(44:05):
inorgasmic or people who haveerectile dysfunction.
Um, I don't know, Rahi, whatelse is coming to your mind?
Rahi (44:13):
Well, I do feel like the underlying is a desire for
connection and anotherunderlying is not knowing how to
get there.
And, you know, so much of whatwe do is facilitate kind of a re
education for couples to learnabout their, each other's bodies
through one way touch.
(44:34):
So, you know, we're both, uh,somatic sex educators and kind
of a pillar of our education isaround one person doing nothing
but being present to thesensations of receiving touch.
And in that, we can reconditionpast patterns and people learn
so much about each other'sbodies that like, you know,
(44:55):
people could have been marrieddecades and they never realized,
Oh, my wife likes the lightfeathery touch.
I just didn't have that in myarsenal, you know, so one way
touch is really big.
And then you know, anotherpillar of our, of our, um, work
is, uh, what we call genitalmapping.
You know, I mentioned thisearlier, what we did facilitated
(45:15):
for the couples, it's reallyunderstanding the erogenous
anatomy and how much time ittakes and how much time you can
enjoy spending, right?
Like warming up, getting theblood flowing, you know,
exploring with differentcombined different erogenous,
uh, parts of the, you know,vulva and vagina or the perineum
(45:38):
and the base of the shaft or thefrenulum.
I mean, there's just so manydifferent combinations that
people don't know about and it'stheir body, you know, it's their
body.
So I would say, in addition tothe enduring, which is a huge
piece is, uh, You know, it'sreally like learning sex
education for the first time,you know, but, you know, like a
(46:01):
felt sense sex education.
So couples are really learninglike how much down regulation of
their partner's nervous systemis required for them to even
feel stuff.
You know, and that requires, youknow, understanding each
other's, um, nervous systemhistories and, you know,
childhood ruptures and justcreating that safe container so
(46:22):
that the body can actually feelsafe to respond.
Leah (46:25):
Mm.
Love that.
Willow (46:28):
Rahi, can you talk a little bit about, um, the de
armoring, what that is and thepractice of it, and then at what
point you might teach coupleshow to do that on each other?
I'm imagining after they'velearned one way touch and
they've learned genital mappingand some of these more
foundational pieces that you'respeaking to.
Rahi (46:47):
Sure.
So to define it simply, genitalarmor is the unconscious
guarding patterns that thetissue and fascia of the body,
uh, resort to when they'refeeling a threat or a perceived
threat.
Right.
And that could be, uh, you know,I mean, the extreme example
(47:08):
would be a sexual violation, butthat could also be religious
shaming, cultural shaming, youknow, like getting, uh, uh,
whistled, whistled and, and catcalls for parts of your body
that, that you feel shy about.
So that can start to createguarding in different parts of
the body.
And, uh, what that is often isunmetabolized emotions from past
(47:30):
experiences.
So to your point, Willow, youknow, the, the, the keys before
dearmoring is, is, is, um, is,is approached really requires
understanding what the nervoussystem needs to feel safe, uh,
how to embody, I'm sorry, how toempower the body to advocate for
(47:52):
what it wants.
So it's only receiving the kindsand quality of touch it desires.
And then the mapping process.
You know, with those in place,you can start to have a safe
container again, the containeris so important to start to
release these unconsciousguarding patterns that may have
been in place since childhood.
And, and, you know, what thatdoes is it restricts your
(48:14):
capacity to really feelsensations.
So it shows up as numbness orpain or discomfort or
desensitization.
Leah (48:22):
Mm
Willow (48:23):
so is the de armoring process and practice generally
an uncomfortable one?
Or, um, can there be pleasurewoven in with it as well?
Rahi (48:36):
Right.
So, um, you know, I'm a bigadvocate of any dearmoring
session should be at least 50percent pleasurable and fun.
Otherwise, yeah, because thatresources the body to want to
inhabit itself more and givesthe incentive for the body to
continue dearmoring if there'spleasure on the other side.
(48:57):
So that's a really, really bigpiece of it.
Willow (49:00):
right.
And, and isn't it also true thatlike there's, there's genital
dearmoring, like maybe where wego into the pelvic floor and we
find these tender points and weunravel and unwind them.
But then there's also, um,there's also like in the hips
and the groin in the sacrum andthe, like in the center of the
(49:21):
glutes and the fold of theglutes, like all of the whole
kind of hip girdle can havearmor in it.
Rahi (49:29):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
So, you know, um, You know, oneof one of my teachers shares
that, uh, most pelvic armorhappens before the age of seven
and has nothing to do withsexuality.
It's
Willow (49:43):
very interesting.
Tell us more about
Rahi (49:45):
well, it's like the way the chakra systems are
developed.
It's the root chakra thatdevelops first.
And, you know, when you're threeand and your parents says, oh,
don't touch that.
Like, what contracts is yourpelvis.
Willow (49:58):
Ah.
Rahi (49:59):
And so all of those, you know, unmetabolized emotions
that, oh, my sister got moreattention than me, or, or, you
know, I couldn't play when Iwanted to, like, all of those
things can be stored there, muchless, like, you know, potty
training, like diaper
Leah (50:15):
potty training has got to be totally a big element to that
of like, transitioning frombeing able to just let go, and
then all of a sudden you have tonow control this and get to the
bathroom.
Like, how much we grip, and thenhow much we grip for the rest of
our life, I mean, how many of ushave a tight ass, right, up
tight as a home, it's your firstchakra.
Rahi (50:33):
chakra.
And, you know, let's not forget,we are sponges as children and
we're absorbing all of ourparents.
Un, unmetabolized, un, you know,un, uh, resolved, you know,
sexual issues about their owngenitalia, which we feel when
they touch us, right?
Leah (50:52):
Right.
Rahi (50:53):
But, you know, like, I mean, you know, Ariel's gone
through this incredibletransformation of dearmoring, of
her own body, and I would Yeah,I'd love to, I'd love to hear
like what that process was like,I mean, as far as like, because
like my body, of course,everyone has armor.
But, but I, my body itselfhasn't taken the journey of,
(51:15):
like, being, being fullyarmored, being armored to de
armoring.
And so I'm always like in awe ofbodies that go through that
journey.
Leah (51:26):
Yeah, Ariel, is that something you've experienced,
and do you want to share a bitabout it?
Ariel (51:29):
Okay, yeah, thank you.
Yeah, so I would say I startedto become.
I wasn't really aware of armorin my body in a new way when I
actually started training tobecome a sex bod.
I mean, I was aware of, uh, likeyears of sexual trauma that I
(51:52):
was moving through.
Um, but I hadn't really, Iwasn't aware of it to the degree
until I started becoming moreeducated on how armor can even
look and show up.
Um, and then I started reallylike working with my own body.
(52:14):
Um, just with like gentle touchand really practicing the
pillars, um, and doing a lot ofplant medicine.
Um, and those two things, Imean, it, it was over a period
of years.
really just opened me up.
(52:36):
And, um, as I was starting tobecome more attuned with my own
body and like, really be gentleand loving with it.
The types of relationships thatI was seeking out and involving
myself in also became moreloving and nurturing, which also
helped my body open more becauseI was creating a safe container
(53:00):
for myself with myself and withthe people around me.
Willow (53:03):
quite a, quite an unfolding, like an organic
unfolding and,
Ariel (53:08):
yeah,
Willow (53:09):
and journey.
And what, what would you say haslike where you're at now with
the journey, like the outcome,quote unquote, like
Ariel (53:16):
yeah, I mean, it's, it's pretty amazing, you know, like
I'm, I'm, I'm going from, uh,living mostly in disassociation
to being able to spend hoursupon hours in extended states of
arousal, being completely opento my beloved.
So it's kind of like a, uh, acomplete other side.
(53:41):
Yeah.
Willow (53:42):
it's like night and day.
Ariel (53:44):
Yeah.
Willow (53:45):
love that.
Leah (53:45):
That's awesome
Willow (53:46):
So beautiful.
So powerful.
Leah (53:49):
Well, thank you so much for the two of you being here
today.
I know people can find you atwww.DivineUnionForLovers.com
That's the website that you havetogether
Rahi (53:58):
it's actually divine.
www.DivineUnionForLovers.Com.
Leah (54:02):
Oh, thank you, www.DivineUnionForLovers.Com,
and, uh, Ariel will soon beresiding with, uh, Rahi in Santa
Monica, so, uh, really excitedfor your future events, and you
work both, you do, you doworkshops, and you also work one
on one with folks?
Ariel (54:21):
Yeah,
Rahi (54:22):
Yes,
Leah (54:23):
and are you specializing just in couples, or are you
working with individuals aswell?
Ariel (54:27):
um, yeah, we do work with couples and then I work with
individuals.
Rahi works with individuals.
Rahi (54:34):
yeah, we, we work with individuals, couples, we have,
um, a range of differentcouples, uh, retreats and, and,
uh, workshops, um, and then wehave our online course, uh,
www.DivineUnionForLovers.Com,uh, and then, Yeah, yeah.
And then, um, yeah, we'll start,uh, the retreats will likely be
in Costa Rica and here in SantaMonica.
Leah (54:57):
Oh, fabulous.
We all like to go on vacation.
And then I believe, uh, you bothhave your own websites.
Um, Ariel, you can be found atwww.SacredmoonFlower.Com.
Ariel (55:06):
Mm hmm.
Yeah
Leah (55:07):
Okay, and Rahi, yours is www.SomaticSexualWholeness.Com.
Rahi (55:11):
Correct.
Leah (55:12):
Yay!
Willow (55:13):
has a wonderful podcast that you all can check out as
well.
He just hosted Leah and I on hispodcast recently and, um, he is
a wealth of information.
So lots to learn and digest and,um, You know, reach out to, if
you've been curious about plantmedicine, these two amazing
(55:36):
human beings are very safepeople to reach out to, to
connect with.
If you're curious, even ifyou're not ready, but you're
just a little curious, I wouldrecommend both of them highly
Leah (55:48):
the name of, um, Rahi's podcast is Organic Sexuality.
Willow (55:53):
love that.
Rahi (55:54):
Thank you.
Leah (55:55):
We'll have, we'll have links in the show notes for
everyone so that you can reachout and work with these two
beautiful souls.
Next up is The Dish with Dr.
Willow and myself.
So please stay tuned.
Announcer (56:08):
Now, our favorite part, the dish.
Leah (56:12):
what fine educators they are.
I really loved their way thatthey spoke about, you know,
things that are certainly in ourrepertoire as educators, but I'm
really loving what, how theyhave developed it.
I love their eight pillars of
Willow (56:26):
The eight pillars are
Leah (56:27):
Right?
Great!
Willow (56:29):
We're going to have to use those.
Leah (56:31):
Absolutely, we'll be we'll be implementing some of that
into our own pillars somehow,someway, so stay tuned you guys.
We're probably going to have areally funny extra iteration of
our own.
Um, and I you know, the, the oneway touch, of course, is
familiar.
Our languaging is a little bitdifferent as we kind of break,
(56:51):
usually use language like thegiver and receiver, but it's
really true.
When you, when you break itdown, it's just one way touch
and how much you can discover.
In fact, it's the only way todiscover, um, so much subtle
sensation that gets bypassed andoverlooked when two people are
trying to do the same thing atthe same time.
(57:12):
How could you ever learn your,your, the things that really
open you the biggest and reallygive yourself the gift of
learning how to receive at aprofound and new level?
Willow (57:23):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I love, um, you know, the workthat they're doing with plant
medicine, and how they'reincorporating that with sexual
healing, and teaching people oneway touch, and couples who've
been together for long periodsof time, who are just Covering
new things about themselves,about their own bodies, about
their partner's bodies, learninghow to pause, learning how to
(57:45):
attune.
so so valuable and so important.
And, um, you know, theintegration of their work with
San Pedro and with Ariel usingsome ayahuasca and some of her
other, um, work as well, Ithink, you know, whenever I've
been in the field of, ofintegrating them as well, I've
just is how powerful and howopening it can be to clearing
(58:08):
old blocks, clearing things thatare holding you back from
intimacy, the fear, the shame,the doubt, the guilt, all that
shit gets to just get uprootedin a single day sometimes.
And it's just so powerful to seewhat transpires then the next
day and how much more opennessand connectedness within there
is.
So that the connection withpartner can be so much stronger.
(58:32):
So really, really would highlyrecommend checking out their
offerings for couples and, um,as well as the work that they do
with individuals.
Leah (58:42):
I mean, on the same note with or without medicine, I
think with medicine that getsreally amplified on a deep
rooted level magical way.
Um, what I love is how muchthey're helping people discover
within those pillars, like theseven pillars before
communication, really working onwhat does intimacy feel like in
(59:03):
your own body, like learning howto be good at intimacy.
That has to happen first on theinside, before you can bring it
to another person or experience.
And so.
I was really touched andinspired by how much they're
really helping people map thatout in their system before
(59:25):
engaging in the way with whichwe share it with others.
I think that's something uniqueand I look forward to expanding
on that in my own work.
Willow (59:33):
Absolutely.
And one final thing that I wantto highlight that I just loved,
um, that Rahi really shared wasthe de armoring process and what
that actually means.
Cause that's a, that's a bigword in our fields these days,
de armoring.
And so he really unpacked thatnicely and described it and, um,
shared the value of it andwhat's possible.
(59:56):
And I love that he, um, youknow, Highlighted to that, you
know, half of the session shouldbe pleasure and half should be
the, the deeper clearingbecause, um, you know, I've had
de arming work and I'm like, Oh,so painful and not pleasant, you
know, and then I've had pleasurede armoring as well.
(01:00:16):
And it's just, it's a completelydifferent experience for your
Soma.
It's so you integrate therelease of the old stuff so much
better when there's pleasureinvolved as well.
Leah (01:00:27):
Well, I think also, like, dearmoring is a word that means,
uh, that has differenttechniques for different
practitioners.
So you can't just say there'sone kind of dearmoring.
People, there's, there areschools out there that do
dearmoring.
They're all different.
So there's no, like, one way todescribe dearmoring per
practitioner.
Um, there's not a ton of schoolsthat are doing it.
(01:00:49):
I know of maybe two or threesystems.
There might be more out there.
Uh, so, it's very important thatif you are feeling called to
explore dearmoring that youinterview a number of people and
find out what that means to themand their process so that you
are choosing the one that mostresonates with you.
(01:01:09):
Do not get confused that whensomeone says dearmoring that
it's the same thing for everypractitioner.
Willow (01:01:14):
Yeah, and then also sometimes people are doing de
armoring, but they don't call itthat.
So, you know, the pelvic thepelvic floor work that I do is,
it's the same idea.
It's the same thing, it's thesame concept,
Leah (01:01:26):
All right, everyone, have a beautiful, beautiful day.
We'll see you on the flip side.
And by the way, do not be, um,what's the word?
Willow (01:01:35):
Timid.
Leah (01:01:36):
Oh, please do not be stingy on your likes and your
comments, like we really needthose in order to help the show
grow.
Um, it's just takes such a shortamount of time to really help us
expand, um, our viewership.
So please be generous with thosecomments.
We so appreciate them and weread every single one.
(01:01:57):
With that, have a gorgeousafternoon, morning, or evening.
Love, love, love.
Thanks for tuning in.
This episode was hosted byTantric Sex Master Coach and
Positive Psychology Facilitator,Leah Piper, as well as by
Chinese and Functional MedicineDoctor and Taoist Taxology
Teacher, Dr.
Willow Brown.
Don't forget, your comments,likes, subscribes, and
(01:02:18):
suggestions matter.
Let's realize this new worldtogether.
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