Debs de Vries: Menopause or Spiritual Awakening? How To Hear The Wisdom Hidden In Your Hormonal Changes | #140 - The Sex Reimagined Podcast

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Leah (00:04):
Welcome to the Sex Reimagined podcast.
I'm your host, Leah Piper, andI'm with my other host, Dr.
Willow Brown, and we want you tomake sure that you stay tuned to
the very end of this episode'cause we've got an amazing free
gift.
You do not wanna miss.

Willow (00:19):
Absolutely.
Today we interviewed the one andonly Debs De Vries, who is the
author of The Voice, the Vulva,and the Vagus Nerve, and she
describes the relationshipbetween, uh, these.
Parts of your body and how tomanifest, how to open up into a
life that works for you.

(00:40):
So really, really powerfulconversation and um, we cannot
wait to hear what you think.

Leah (00:46):
So please tune in, turn on, and fall in love with Debs.

Announcer (00:52):
Welcome to the Sex Reimagined Podcast, where sex is
shame-free and pleasure forward.
Let's get into the show.

Leah (01:01):
Debs, welcome to the show.
We're so happy to have you.

Deb (01:04):
Thank you.

Willow (01:06):
I am thrilled to not only have you to show, but to
meet you, Debs, because I havebeen reading your book.
You were referred to me by NiniBlossom, a dear friend, and, um,
I just, I'm loving the book.
I'm, I'm toward the end of itright now, but the, the book is
called The Voice, the Vulva, andthe Vagus Nerve and as a, um, as

(01:28):
a total vagus nerve dork, whowants to know everything that
there is to know about the vagusnerve?
I'm learning new things, andit's really wonderful how you
bridge, you know, thespirituality, the physicality,
and the, the divine femininealtogether in such a beautifully
woven book.

Deb (01:49):
Thank you.
Thank you for your beautifulwelcome, Leah and Dr.
Willow.
And may I say you've just madeit all worthwhile.
You know, I, I feel tearsbecause.
It's a simple book in some ways.
You know, I, it's, I actuallyfeel it's a primer, um, which
isn't to be dismissive of, uh,of what's in it, but I want to

(02:12):
go deeper and I, I need tostart, I had to start somewhere.
And my life has been, I think,like so many of us that want to
broaden and deepen our ourvitality, our moving to our
potential and feel as fullyalive as we can is bringing

(02:33):
those things together.
So, you know, pennies drop, aswe say in England, there's a
gestalt, so people start to seethings as really connected and
therefore perhaps a moremotivated and encouraged.

Willow (02:45):
Yeah, the, the connection between the voice and
the vulva is one that, you know,Leah and I have been teaching
for a couple decades now, andit's such an unknown connection
to so many.

Deb (02:57):
It's, it's unbelievably thrilling to think that we are
speaking about this, uh, in thisday and age, and now in these
times, right, that we're pullingtogether between us, across the
globe.
The pieces of equipment,physical and non-physical that
are ours, that are ourbirthright.

Willow (03:18):
Yeah, I feel like the, you know, that.
That line of connection that wehave in our bodies called the
vagus nerve Central Channel is,you know, more of a, a
metaphysical term or the yinmeridian or the conception
vessel in Taoism and Chinesemedicine.
And it is this, um, nerve thatactually connects from our
brainstem down to our heart,down to our gut.

(03:40):
And then there are other nerveplexus is that travel even
further down to connect to thewomb and the cervix.
And so a lot of times when wehave cervical orgasms, we are
igniting that vagus nerve.
But there's so many ways toignite the vagus nerve including
and to activate it, including toopen up the throat.

(04:01):
And you know, in my work withwomen over the past couple of
decades, the the biggest place,where do you feel that block in
your body right here.
And it's always right betweenthe heart and the, and the
mouth, right?
It's right at that throatchakra.
And so, you know, even, evengagging and, and sticking your
finger back in your throat canactivate the, the vagus nerve.
And when you're healing, um, gutissues or you know, or trauma in

(04:25):
the body, it can be so powerfulto stimulate and activate the
vagus nerve and that.
That alignment, that it, itconnects head, heart, and gut
and, you know, genitals as well.
And so, you know, I studied, um,in my coaching practice I
studied multiple brainintegration therapy.
And that that is all aboutfinding coherence, like getting

(04:49):
your heart, your head, and yourgut all on the same page.
And that's really what you'respeaking to, is to make those
choices and those decisions ofwhich direction to, to go in
life from a coherent place inyour body.
And if you're not feeling it,and wait until you can feel
that.

Deb (05:09):
Thank you.
You just summarized it.
It is coherence and it's in aswell trying to break down of the
some of the ideas, the societal,cultural, and embodied ideas
about what coherence is.
And I think in some ways we cansupport people in finding it,

(05:31):
but when you know it in yourbody, it's unmistakable for you
and that's what encouragespeople like you and you and me
and millions of others, nodoubt, to follow their inner
knowing.
You know, attached to yourvalues, of course, to, you know,

(05:53):
to, to approach the world in away that you, you hold yourself
in a way that aligns with the,the values you've espoused as a
human.
But that inner knowing that canmake a life look very different
to people who are um, livingwithin their paradigm of what

(06:13):
they, you know, conformity tothe structures they've been told
are the best for them.
And we are seeing a lot ofbreakdown around that right now.

Willow (06:24):
A lot.

Leah (06:26):
I wanna back up just a little bit, Debs, and I wanna
know, how would you describeyour work, and then how did you
get into your work?

Deb (06:35):
My work is a devotion to the liberation of women into
their greatest potential frommidlife onwards.
How I got into it, leah, mymother died at 51, and although
I didn't realize that she hadovarian cancer, her twin sister

(06:55):
died a year later in Australiaof breast cancer, and then her
daughter died of ovarian cancer.
My, my cousin.
And I used to, and I always havedone walk in the fields since I
was a little girl.
I grew up in rural Staffordshirein England, um, in the middle
of, you know, a very small, uh,village.

(07:18):
And I would turn to nature formy answers.
Always, always, I used to lie onmy back and look at the stars
and say, I know you're trying tosay something to me.
I can't understand you.
You know, there was this senseof needing a dialogue.
So going back to my mother'sdeath, I struggled with the
question, well, does nature justuse up women and then chuck'em

(07:43):
away like a dirty old Kleenexwhen they've done the productive
years and it, it, it looked likeit particularly bearing in mind
I was born in 1956, so, youknow, grandmas, grandmothers
were always gray perms.
I mean, there'd be nograndmother that looked like me
unless she was, you know,completely outside the pale.

(08:05):
Uh, and there was, so, there wasthis very set world that I saw a
village life, um, an all girlsschool.
My father choosing my career forme, I mean,

Leah (08:17):
Mm-hmm.

Deb (08:18):
but it, none of it sat with me.
And I think that's what I'mtalking about, that sort of
divine restlessness, that thisjust isn't true.
But I didn't set out to makethat my work.
That was just a backgroundquestion.
There's two.
So the other strand is I had aprofessional career where I
would be advising companies,quite large companies on people

(08:40):
and mission development.
And, and also writing programsand delivering them.
So I was, you know, exec boarddown to hands-on with the
newbies everywhere.
And in 1999 I had a horse and alady I met at a stable old where
a captain said to me, oh, we'vegot a reiki master coming to my

(09:01):
house on Sunday.
Would you like to come?
I think I thought she meantsushi, honestly.

Willow (09:08):
Sure.
I like fish.

Deb (09:10):
I'm coming.
I just said, I'm coming, therebyhangs a tail.
So that was the, the start of a,of a step into understanding
subtle energy, which continuedat quite a pace.
I was also doing a lot of yogaand I moved into tango.
I woke up one morning from aprofound dream and I've had half

(09:31):
a dozen really profound dreamsthat have changed my direction
and I had to give up working,learn tango, thereby hangs it a
big old tale.
So I've got these two strandsgoing on.
The energy work was building.
I couldn't walk into a corporateenvironment in a suit anymore.
Um, by 2012, I was divorced.
I was desperate to get a job soI could pay my house bills, all

(09:55):
sorts of things.
And I was offered a co, a goodcorporate job.
And I thought, come on, Deb,it's this or the poor house, you
know, get on with it.
Um, but it wouldn't hold.
And I couldn't hold, hold thatposition and not, and be well.
So I gave it up and a monthlater I had a dream.

(10:15):
And in the dream there were fourbeautifully wrapped gifts.
And my inner voice said, you'vegot gifts physically,
emotionally, psychologically,and spiritually.
Now you must take them tomidlife women.

Leah (10:30):
Hmm.

Deb (10:31):
outta bend.
You know that you, maybe youdon't, but I'm standing there a
bit dozy, pulling my, lookingfor my underwear.
I'm going, but how does it allfit together?
And straight away it was there.
Chiron, Kundalini, all thesewords dropped in things I knew,
but needed to go boom.
So that's what I did.
I went downstairs and thought,make an event, do a weekend, see

(10:53):
what happens.
So that's where that started.

Leah (10:57):
And so in this event, in your first event, and I'm sure
it's grown and you've, you know,dialed it over time, what, can
you explain what thecornerstones, what was this
event?
How, what were people lookingfor that had them say yes to
attending your event?

Deb (11:16):
In 2015, midlife and menopause were still weren't the
conversation they are today.
So, the title of the event wasMenopause Magic.
So you've got two good wordsthere.
And what they were looking forwas an alternative route for

(11:37):
those women that are already,should we just say spiritually
seeking, have done, you know,self-inquiry or perhaps into
yoga.
There was a stirring within themthat they, they're inner being
answered to.
And the cornerstone was bringingtogether, particularly at the

(11:58):
age of 48 to 52, the Chironreturn, the upsurge of
Kundalini, the impact ofKundalini in the psyche and in
the physical and emotionalsystem and, and things to
support that so they could holdan under a bigger understanding
of the passage than they mightalready have had.

Leah (12:21):
Hmm.

Willow (12:21):
Can you explain to our audience what that means?
Chiron and Kudalini.

Deb (12:26):
I would love to.
Chiron is a center planet.
Um, he was rediscovered by, uh,an electron telescope on the,
uh, southeast coast of Americaon the 1st of November, 1977.
A centuar, as I'm sure we allhave seen or thought of them,

(12:47):
represents divine and human,divine and animal.
You could almost say Chiron'sgot a big history in, in, in
Greek, but when Chiron'sphysicality was seen again in
our skies, 1977.
There wasn't an awful lot ofself-healing going on.

(13:08):
You know, psychology had beenthe biggest modality, but there
it was.
And suddenly through America,things began to pour into the,
the consciousness and theawareness, you know, massage,
um, essences.

Leah (13:23):
Gestalts and all these alternative healing modalities
and somatic therapies are givingbirth for the first time.

Deb (13:30):
Oh, everything.
77, right?
So when I was born, it wasn't inmy chart.
I was 21 at the time.
Chiron represents a passage, avery interesting passage, and he
moves between the inner planets.
So let's just sort of say firsthalf of life or the things we
need to do to set our life up.

(13:51):
And then as a strange ellipticalmovement that he makes, and the
planets outside of this littledwarf, if you like, are, um,
Saturn and Uranus.
So more, more energy, moreuniqueness, more of that
electrode just had an idea, moreform.

(14:12):
The idea being that we have toperfect if you like, and that
doesn't mean to be perfect, apiece of work within us that our
soul is calling us to do.
And that is often referred to asthe Chiron wound.
I'm not keen on the idea ofwound because I like to steer

(14:32):
away from the way the idea thatwe are wounded.
I believe we're always inprocess and our process is, you
know, will bring us up againstvery uncomfortable and
unpleasant, uh, events in thebody and in the outside life.
But when I've, when I've tappedinto the chirotic energy, the,

(14:54):
is what we call it, what I'vealso seen always makes me wanna
weep.
It's so beautiful that overlifetimes, and actually I don't
think it's linear, but you know,just, just let's say we've been
around forever and in differentexperiences, we've built gifts
and talents.
We've built and built and builtgifts and talents, and there may

(15:17):
be one place that we haven'ttackled we've avoided.
But rather like theinevitability of a branch
popping out of a trunk of a treeat some point, which I call a, a
stage of spiritual maturation.
Your soul goes, right, this is alifetime.

(15:37):
We are gonna do it.
And it's, it's a way of bringingdown this left right brain
saturn Uranus energy.
It's a way of overcoming whatthey call the wound, but I
prefer to think of as a sort ofplace we have just not really
wanted to go.
And, and the reasons for thatare actually though people don't

(16:01):
wanna hear it, they're notimportant.
The important thing is that whenyou go there and you start to
work with that pain, if it's, ifwe can describe as that your
gifts and talents birth.
Because the very thing thatyou've been avoiding is.
The way that you are going tobring those gifts and talents
into your, into your life, intoother people's lives.

(16:23):
And the learning is for me islike, you don't cure the wound.
You just get to know when it'sthere.
You know, like a monkey on yourshoulder.
It's like, oh, it's my woundagain.
And for me, that always means,okay, that means you've gotta do
the thing you don't wanna do.
You go and talk to that group.
My, my wound, if you like, is ingroups.

(16:46):
So, yeah,

Willow (16:47):
then you went and started doing groups.

Deb (16:50):
well, exactly, and that was still a safe place for me
because when I was teaching, youknow, it was still a safe place
because I had that little bit ofteacher going on and I was
managing the group, but me in agroup, ugh, no.

Willow (17:05):
Hmm

Leah (17:06):
So, let me see if I got this right.
Chiron is basically theinvitation that arises when the
impulse goes, I gotta take alook at the things I'm
uncomfortable with.

Deb (17:16):
Yeah.

Leah (17:17):
called to explore and be an inquiry with the traumas from
the past, the stories that don'tserve, the things that keep me
small, instead of allowingmyself to shine.
And if I'm brave enough, if Ilisten to the call of Chiron, I
dig in for that courage and whatwill, what will be unlocked is

(17:39):
like the next big expansion.
Me being more of myself.

Willow (17:43):
Very well articulated.

Deb (17:45):
Leah, you just said something so magical.
You said unlock the symbol thatthe astronomers gave.
Chiron is a key and

Leah (17:56):
of course.
It took me a minute to like havethat

Deb (17:59):
drop in.
Yeah, bu

Leah (18:00):
Yes.
So

Deb (18:01):
a key.

Leah (18:02):
key right

Deb (18:02):
It's a master key.
It, it has an energeticsignature that can.
I'm pushing boundaries perhapsof people's beliefs here, but
it's been true for me.
That can impact at the level ofthe DNA

Leah (18:17):
So is this is Chiron specific to, let's say an
astrological chart at a certainage.
Is that why it's a part of yourecosystem as it relates to
menopause?
Or can Chiron come into anyone'sfield at any age?

Deb (18:33):
Chiron's always in your field because he'll be in some
house or the other, but the bigreturn IE, when it kind of comes
back to that moment when youwere born, the Chiron return 48
to 52.

Leah (18:47):
Okay.

Deb (18:48):
fundamentally important in my work, and the only reference
in the West I could find to itwas Carl Jung, of course, who
went

Leah (18:56):
Mm.

Deb (18:57):
to India for three months and came back and wrote about,
not so much about Chiron, butabout Kundalini psychosis.
And when I thought of whatKundalini can do and when I
thought of what Chiron can doand realized the power of, of
those two combined at the, thoseparticular ages, specifically.

(19:19):
I, you know, I.
I ran downstairs and thought Ibetter start helping people.
'Cause you know, this idea ofpouring petrol onto a bonfire
was just so huge in my mind.
No wonder people are goingcrazy, you know?

Leah (19:31):
Okay, beautiful.
So now let's go to Kundalini.

Deb (19:35):
Kundalini is described in various ways, and it's a little
bit difficult to give it acomplete Western definition
because it's one of thosebeautiful Sanskrit terms that
don't quite translate into our,our cultural understanding.
I like to think of it as anenergy source that has different

(20:00):
iterations in the human body,but very specifically at
midlife.
It starts to power up in a wholenew way, and its movement is
upwardly vertical.
And it's power wants to increaseat this point, its programmed to
increase, and as the powerincreases and it moves upwards,

(20:24):
it's moving through the humanSocratic system.
In other words, it's activatingthe subtle power centers that
are transducing energy from thecosmos to the meridians in the
human body.
Because it wants to increasetheir, let's call it voltage,

(20:47):
and it needs, in order to dothat, it has to debug programs
that

Leah (20:56):
Mm-hmm.

Deb (20:57):
cannot support it.

Leah (20:59):
Yeah, it's like a purification system.
It kind of blasts through, uh,conditioned responses that are
both conscious and unconsciousand subconscious and all the
consciousnesses.

Deb (21:10):
it's an, it's, it's an, you know, it's a piece of the cosmic
intelligence and

Leah (21:15):
Yeah.

Deb (21:16):
that's what it's gonna do because it's, it the, as energy
spirals upwards, we get, as youknow, I'm sure opportunities to
make leaps within our own lives.
So you know, the Saturn returnat 29.
At 44 Uranus versus Uranus.
Then we get a little break.

(21:36):
Whew.
Thank you very much.
And then along comes Chironrate.
Are you guys ready for this?
If you've done your Uranusversus Uranus work, which I wish
would help a lot, then therewouldn't be so much to do at the
Chiron point.
But there you go, that's wherewe are.
And the action of is.
As you say, it's purifying, it'svivifying,

Leah (21:58):
Mm-hmm.

Deb (21:59):
now

Leah (22:00):
It's awakening and it's enlightening.
So a lot of people, when theyhear Kundalini, they, there's
oftentimes a relationship toenlightenment.
People whose Kundalini awakens,and then they have states of
enlightenment, which really justmeans they're lighter,

Willow (22:16):
Well, and their

Leah (22:17):
they're less burdened by, by the stories.
Yeah.
But I love this, it's vivifying,that's beautiful.

Deb (22:24):
It's vivifying and you are absolutely right.
People have an experience, buthaving an initiation isn't the
same as embodying it.

Leah (22:32):
Right.

Deb (22:34):
And

Willow (22:35):
Good distinction.

Deb (22:36):
know what happens in many cases is that the initiation of
that energy to misperception ofwhat's happening.

Leah (22:45):
Yeah.
A lot of circuits can get blownout.

Deb (22:47):
A lot can get blown out.
A

Leah (22:49):
Mm-hmm.

Deb (22:49):
missteps can be taken because we, you know, the person
thinks it's this and it's thatand it's outside of me and I'm
gonna do this and I can't.
It, it's a very confusing, andhave a certain amount of psychic
perception, well, I've actuallygot quite a lot.
And I saw how the construct ofthe human ego, the hologram of

(23:10):
that also plays a part.
I mean, it plays a part all thetime, but because it, I saw one
doing it once, I'm like, oh myGod, it has energy.
Tentacles is the best I couldput it into the solar plexus,
into, um, manipura,

Willow (23:26):
Mm-hmm.

Deb (23:26):
which isn't surprising.
But again, this passage fromsolar plexus, which is what
Kundalini is helping us to do,thru the Chiron point, which is
between the heart and here.
Again, if the ego isn'tbalanced, if we aren't in some
form of surrender to the lifeforce.

(23:48):
If we aren't humble enough andwilling enough to listen, that
energy just stays in thenegative aspects of ego.
Because the brain, it, brain itto do that.
It shunts it is the best way Ican put it, rather than the
energy, the pre-language energymoving through and us with the

(24:11):
vagus nerve being able tointerpret it, it goes through a
different system, solar plexusand central nervous system.
And we have a thought like that,right?
We check out, I don't know whatthis is, it's you, it's me, it's
this, it's that.
So the whole process of becomingcoherent.
Understanding how to be in arelaxed state, people don't like

(24:33):
the word relaxed.
I'm like, doesn't mean passiveguys, doesn't mean you're lying
around with your face full ofmarshmallows every day.
It's an opening, it's a way ofbeing so.
I hope that's a little bithelpful and not confusing.
But that's, the way we're made,right.
I will just say one thing thatyou, you probably know, but I

(24:55):
want to add about Kundalini'cause some people might be
saying, well, how come this onlyjust really happens then?
One of the things to note isthat in the lower two Chakras,
there are gates that allowKundalini in and it flows out
with a menstrual flow.
When it's not used to buildplacenta.

Leah (25:18):
Mm.

Deb (25:20):
So one of those gates begins to close at around 44, 45
years

Leah (25:26):
Mm, due to perimenopause?

Deb (25:30):
And estrogen's going E, but guess what?
Kundalini's going, hello!

Leah (25:36):
How interesting.

Deb (25:36):
Don't worry.
That's my view.
And I'm not medical, so God.

Leah (25:41):
Yeah.

Deb (25:42):
What people make of that.
But the, the fact from anesoteric point of view is, and
it makes sense, kundalini ispretty much always there, and it
needs to be there to sustain newlife.
Right.
And then it's, it's not neededfor that anymore.
The program is for you to have anew life.

Leah (26:04):
mm.
Ding ding.

Willow (26:05):
Women who are going through perimenopause they no
longer have the capacity to sortof handle the things they used
to handle.
You know, because they're likefuck that, I don't have the
time.
I don't have the space.
I don't have the capacity.
I'm gonna go create a new lifefor myself.
And you know, this is so oftenwhen divorces happen and things
short circuit in life becauseit, as you're talking about,

(26:26):
these are very interesting.
These, this gate, these twogates in the second chakra.
I've never thought about thatbefore, but it makes a lot of
sense.
It's like when the, the blood,the life force, the potential
life, those eggs are no longerbeing released down to the
earth.
Then they are, they're thengoing up back, like the energy

(26:47):
is going, not the eggs, but theenergy is going back up into you
and giving you this new and thisnew, um, opportunity to rewire
and rebuild your life in a waythat that works for you Now.

Deb (27:03):
Completely.
And if I could just add it tosomething from my experience to
that.
Yeah.
I, I always say to women, youknow, your band of tolerance is
gonna get really tight.
It's just like, it's gonna gettight and it needs to get tight,

Willow (27:16):
Mm-hmm.

Deb (27:17):
you now have the process of sifting and sorting.
And as you said, sometimesthere's a lot of short
circuiting.
So the business skills that Ilearned that I used to teach,
you know, all kinds of people,realized when I was looking at
those skills, these are reallyuseful skills.
Rather than crashing and burningyour life, which might happen,

(27:39):
you might want to, but what ifyou had a set of skills that
actually serve you for the restof your life?
And even if this partnershipdoesn't hold, you've learned a
new narrative.
A new dialogue, that rather thanfuck it, I'm outta here.
We are negotiating, we'relobbying for our needs.

(28:00):
We're helping the nextgeneration take their part of
the teamwork in the home.
You know, women say to me, butI've got nobody to help me.
I'm like, how old are your kids?
They go, oh, I can't ask them.
Oh, yes you can lady, and youshould.
How old are they?

Leah (28:15):
Mm-hmm.

Willow (28:18):
Perfect age for them to

Leah (28:19):
Yeah.

Willow (28:20):
Yeah, exactly.

Deb (28:20):
late by my book.
But yeah, get going, g know getgoing.
Because actually most if you doit well, they like to be
included.
They start to feel themselves asresponsible as part of a unit,

Leah (28:31):
Yep.

Deb (28:32):
of learning useful skills.
You know, I'd be shamed if myson had come back from
university with a bag of dirtywashing.
I would not happy.

Leah (28:41):
Yeah.

Deb (28:42):
And yet it's a bit of a badge of honor.
Oh, he's come home again withhis dirty washing.
I'm like.

Leah (28:48):
Yeah.

Deb (28:49):
I'm

Willow (28:50):
Okay, so.

Deb (28:50):
out like that for a woman in my world.

Leah (28:53):
Right.

Willow (28:54):
Yeah, so, so Leah and I are both at this, this
conjunction point, this age, 44,45 of like, where what you're
speaking to is the, the Uranus,um, return.
Is that correct?
And so can you share a littlebit like Saturn return, if you
know anything about astrology,it's like these, these planets

(29:16):
have big life lessons to offerus.
So Saturn is, you know, big lifelessons.
What are you here to learn inlife?
And it, it comes around our, ourcharts every 30 years.
So we have our Saturn returnwhen we're in our th.
Thirties, and that's a 29, 28,29 30 is when a lot of people
are like, what the fuck am Idoing?
You know, and things go haywirefor a few years and then you

(29:38):
kind of get on back on trackagain.
And, and now we're speaking tothis next return, which is the
Uranus return.
And Uranus is, um, you know, tothe sign Aquarius, so, which I
am.
So, and Leah has Aquarius sun,and so I

Leah (29:54):
Rising.

Willow (29:55):
Rising.
Sorry.
Yeah.
Aquarius rising.
And so I think about Uranus asthis sort of like planet of, of
big, um, understanding, youknow, bigger consciousness,
bigger conception, biggeroverview, because that's kind of
what Aquarius holds.
Like the humanitarian overview.
Like how are we, how are weweaving with the collective and

(30:18):
what are we offering to theworld?
So.
Um, you know, I just wanna maybepause with that and get your
wisdom on how can someone inthis age range and this Uranus
return, you know, kind ofpresent and,

Leah (30:35):
Find meaning and yeah.

Willow (30:38):
when they come to this Chiron return in the, you know,
around the early fifties, it'seasier.

Deb (30:46):
Great question.
God, I love speaking with youwomen.
Yes, Uranus, Aquarius, expansionglobal.
But first of all, we have tounderstand how capable we are of
working with energy and toprovide a stable environment for

(31:11):
that energy when it comes.
And that happens through at aphysiological level, the
endocrine system.
And at, um, another level, theemotional system.
So Uranus versus Uranus at thisoctave of our being human, our
just coming into this, you know,we've done the Saturn stuff,

(31:32):
we've got the job, we've got thehouse.
We've grounded ourselves, we'relearning the lessons.
The question at this point forme is, are you emotionally
capable?
Are you emotionally fluent?
How do you manage your emotions?
Can you name them?
you claim them?
Can you use them in aconstructive way?

(31:54):
Because these levels of powerthat come are as all power is,
are capable of destruction.
They're capable of destroyingyou psychologically, you know,
people have brilliant ideas andit can drive them crazy because

(32:17):
their emotional life isn'tstable enough.
By that I mean it's learning to,for me to broaden out everything
you know about yourself.
So it really is the one of thosefirst lessons of physician heal
thyself.
To know thyself because until wereally know ourselves, that

(32:37):
level of wisdom and the theaccess it gives you, um, can
bounce back.

Leah (32:47):
So let me,

Deb (32:48):
yeah.
So, you know, how do you dealwith anger?
Do you know you're angry?
I meet a lot of women who justdunno, they're angry,

Leah (32:55):
mm.

Willow (32:55):
I know.
I know when I am.

Deb (32:57):
do.

Leah (32:58):
Mm-hmm.

Willow (32:59):
I, yeah.
And, and yeah.
And, and I, I love what you'respeaking to.
'cause it's, it's anger is suchan uncomfortable emotion for
women.
They usually will default todepression or grief or some
other emotion that's morecomfortable and, and societally,
um, accepted.
And so I think that.
know that they have rage roomsthese days where you can go and

(33:21):
like throw shit and break shitand

Leah (33:24):
I've heard of that.

Willow (33:25):
get your anger out.
And I think, who is it?
Mama Gina has this like swampingthing that she talks about, you
know?
So there's all these differentways that we can release our
anger these days and instead of,um, bottling it in because that
is then going to affect our soulreturn, right?
This Chiron Soul purpose returnplanet.

(33:46):
Later on in life.

Leah (33:48):
Well, let me see.
Let me see if I have this right.
So it sounds like, um, again,there's an invitation to take
ownership of your emotions,right?
But it sounds like there'sactually a maturation process to
all this, that it's not justabout, oh, I just get to have my
emotions.
It's, I get to own and recognizemy emotions and I'm mature

(34:11):
enough to clean up a mess whenI've made one.
You know, it's not just beingwilly-nilly about all your
emotions.
It's actually being wise andpurposeful and responsible, and
to be able to articulate what'simportant to you about your
emotions.
You set boundaries, the way thatyou create limits, the, things
that you say no to, because it'snot a match.
You don't wanna be thrown intoit fucking chaos anymore.

(34:33):
It sounds like you have enoughemotional awareness to have the
autonomy and the agency toconsciously sign up for what is
in alignment for you versus whatyou're no longer gonna endure,
because you wanna be a good girlin everybody's eyes.
But you also don't need to likethrow a tantrum to go fuck you.

(34:54):
You know?
It's like one of these things.
Yeah.
Right, right, right, right,right, right.
Well, right.
Or like when someone reallybreaks your boundaries, you
allow yourself to be upset andto stand for them.
And that case, sometimes a ragestorm has to blow over.
Um.
Or you make a mistake and youmake a giant ass mess and you

(35:16):
blow everybody outta the water,but you now know how to clean it
up and take responsibility forthat.
And then shift the frequency ofwhether or not that happens.

Deb (35:26):
You are

Leah (35:26):
Yes.
Am I on the track?
Okay.

Deb (35:30):
there's a process of alchemy that we can run, which
is we are really talking aboutat the level of this.

Leah (35:36):
Okay.

Deb (35:37):
So for me, I.
Completely.
We take responsibility.
What could that look like?
First of all, you said itawareness.
Am I angry?
Am I a little bit annoyed or amI so fucking pissed off?
I could rip somebody's head off.
You know,

Leah (35:50):
Right,

Deb (35:50):
Where are you on that scale?
Because they're allbiochemically different.
What are you gonna do now?
You know that?

Leah (35:58):
right.

Deb (36:00):
What I always advocate is don't project,

Leah (36:04):
Mm.
How do you help?
How do you help people breakthat habit?
Because so many times people gointo projection unconsciously.

Deb (36:13):
If they come to me, it's probably because they're in a
loop of projection.
You

Leah (36:17):
Okay.

Deb (36:17):
I yelled, they yelled, we are yelling.

Leah (36:20):
Yeah.

Deb (36:20):
So the first position is to get past the story

Leah (36:26):
Mm-hmm.

Deb (36:27):
take them into their body

Leah (36:29):
Hmm.

Deb (36:30):
anger usually.
And you'll hear this a lot.
I dunno what I feel.

Leah (36:35):
Oh really?

Deb (36:36):
I don't feel like talking to them

Leah (36:37):
Uh, right.

Deb (36:40):
Um, know, we were getting

Leah (36:42):
I.

Deb (36:43):
Okay.
Let's, let's just unwind a bitand see what's really going on.
And there's some, a very simpletool I use is, um, you've
probably done it, it's from theAfrican yoga tradition and it's
called wood chopper.

Willow (36:56):
Oh yeah.

Deb (36:57):
it's, yeah, it's really good for that.
I

Willow (37:00):
I love the wood chopper

Deb (37:01):
when you've done that three times and you stand

Leah (37:03):
I am not, I'm not familiar with the wood chopper.

Willow (37:06):
You stand like in a, with your feet wide and you do
like a, a squat with, butkeeping your spine straight.
So you're just coming straightup and down and

Leah (37:14):
Okay.

Willow (37:15):
chop wood and you go, ha, every time

Leah (37:18):
Okay.

Willow (37:19):
loud.
It's um.

Deb (37:20):
the solar plexus snaps up.
So you're moving the

Willow (37:22):
Yeah.

Deb (37:23):
You wanna feel it in your heart.
You want the biochemistry torun,

Leah (37:27):
Okay.

Deb (37:28):
you, there's a ification.
And when you felt it.
The need to project it prettymuch disappears because you are
it now.
You, you're not trying to getrid of it and give it to
somebody else, and it feels tome, it always feels good.
Now I can go and say tosomebody, we need to talk.
I was really angry.
because I'm talking from withthat biochemistry in my body,

(37:51):
rather than going in for anattack from a defensive or
victim mode,

Leah (37:56):
Right?

Deb (37:57):
they feel it.
They don't need

Leah (37:58):
Mm

Deb (37:59):
to be told because their body will pick up that signal.
She's angry,

Leah (38:03):
mm

Deb (38:04):
attack.
She's just angry.
Let's listen to her.

Leah (38:06):
mm

Willow (38:07):
Mm-hmm.
That's beautiful.

Deb (38:09):
That's alchemy.

Leah (38:11):
Yes.

Deb (38:11):
That's a form of alchemy.
You are transforming thesevibrations that have been
calibrated in you.
The triggers, of course, you,it's a trigger.
So.
important thing is to understandthat you are now experienced
something that could becalibrated at any frequency
band.
Really think about it.

(38:33):
You know, you could, you couldget a trigger and have an
orgasm, right?
It's just like, oh, oh, theywere so angry with me.
That was gorgeous.
Depending on how that energy hadalready been stored,

Leah (38:43):
Okay, so, so let's bridge this to sex.
Let's bridge this to intimacyand sexual relationships.
What does all this have to dowith sex?

Deb (38:55):
Sex is the primal creative force, and it's, I think the
same thing applies.
It's how do we amplify it andmanage it in a responsible way
so that we can create greaternetworks of pleasure, which is

(39:18):
highly important withinourselves and within the worlds
we inhabit.
And sex and sensuality are hugegateways to that.
I'd probably broaden it tosensuality to include sex,
because there's a sensuality tofeeling your feelings in a
healthy way, it

Leah (39:38):
Mm-hmm.

Deb (39:38):
just happens, you know yourself.
If, if you're around somebodywho's holding something in,
they're feeling a bit bitter,resemble lonely, that's not
sexy,

Leah (39:48):
No.

Deb (39:49):
Um.
Having an argument with somebodyand trying to tell'em they're
right, you know, in arelationship that's not sexy,
but owning your own feelings andgoing and presenting them and
explaining what your needs arein that moment and whether they
can, you know, are they gonnastep meet them?
That becomes sexy becausethere's, the magnetism is
running your, you're presentingyourself as a whole person, not

(40:13):
as somebody who needs somethingfrom the other person,

Leah (40:17):
It also seems like, like this process that you're
speaking to is like you'refreeing yourself up because
we're usually doing one of twothings.
We're either suppressing.
And, and people pleasing orwe're just kind of outta
control.
Everything's just flying outsideways.
We're looking to be corralled.
And so it's like, both are kindof not great options.

(40:39):
And so it feels, um, either likevery depressive.
Very chaotic.
And it seems like when you'retalking about this alchemizing
thing, that it, it frees up thesystem.
You're able to like dischargeand, and relax in a specific
way.
And if you can realize that someof the most potent energy we
have in our system is derivedfrom the sex center, it's also

(41:02):
very creative in nature.
So you're harnessing creativity,you're harnessing a lot of
energy, you're becoming very,um.
Intentional, right?
It's like instead of just likeyou're holding a bow and arrow
and you pull back on the stringand instead of just aiming, not
having an aim, like suddenly youhave a bullseye and you can let

(41:23):
go.
And in that letting go, you freeyourself.
Then like pleasure becomes somuch easier.
You're not like all squashed in,you're not super tight.
Preventing and being un magneticto the pleasures that are
awaiting for you to like, yum,yum, yum, yum.
Enjoy.
Enjoy this beautiful life andthis beautiful body that we're

(41:46):
so privileged to inhabit.

Deb (41:49):
beyond anything and absolutely.
Tantra Tanti expansion.

Leah (41:55):
Yeah.

Deb (41:55):
What does that look like in a person's life?
Where are we compressed,shrivel, defensive, aggressive,
um,

Leah (42:02):
Right.
Numb.

Deb (42:03):
unattractive in, in, in the original sense of the word, you
know.

Willow (42:07):
Yeah,

Deb (42:08):
the

Willow (42:08):
magnetic.

Deb (42:09):
being, you know, are you in, look, one, two, or three?
I, I believe there's only aboutthree looks kicking around on
the, in the western world at themoment.
It's, it's like isn't what it'sabout.
The body will findattractiveness

Leah (42:23):
Yeah.

Deb (42:26):
Uh, you know, safe and wanted and welcome and ready for
expansion.

Leah (42:32):
Yeah.

Deb (42:32):
We know there are shades of that and people doing different
things, but those differentthings aren't sustainable in the
same way.

Leah (42:40):
Well, it kind of reminds me of like the essence or the
spirit of turn on.
Like it's not, I'm not referringto like turn on as like being
horny.
I'm talking about being turnedon, being lit up, being open,
being.
In the world and and choosing tobe lit up, like making a

(43:01):
conscious choice to live a lifefilled with turnon.
And we can be turned on bynature.
We can be turned on by babieslaughing and giggling.
I was just with my little niecewho's six months old, and it was
like, how is this littlecreature that doesn't even know
how to talk, captivate the wholedamn room by just wobbling her
little pudgy limbs.

(43:21):
You know what I mean?
Like, why do we find that soincredibly delightful and
fascinating?
Like what a turn on it was tobask in her vividness, you know,
like, so I'm, am I headed in theright direction that these are,
this is a part of the alchemythat happens as people start to
feel lit up and, yeah.

(43:42):
Okay.

Deb (43:43):
it's, it's the, the first pass is, is know thyself.
Then it's now I'm beginning toknow myself.
What do I do?
And the, you know, those deepquestions.
Am I, I manipulate?
What's my intention behind

Leah (43:56):
Mm.

Deb (43:56):
outta my mouth?
You know, coming back to thevoice or what's my intention
behind withholding,understanding the way we use
power.

Leah (44:07):
so now let's bridge that to this whole vagus nerve piece.
Because one of the things Ithink is really interesting
about the vagus nerve is it'sone of the ways that people who
have spinal injuries can stillhave orgasms.
Because it's one, it's the onlynerve that we are aware of that
runs from the front of the body,from the genitals up to the
brain that allows us to run anorgasmic sensations.

(44:28):
Instead of going through thespine, which I think is like,
God, what a miraculous design.
Um, and so I don't know why I'msaying that.
I guess I'm just throwing thatinto the conversation.
But how does all of this relatenow to this vagus nerve?

Deb (44:45):
Well, let's start with a, a very quick thing for me.

Leah (44:49):
I.

Deb (44:49):
Yes.
The difference between thecentral nervous system and the
vagus nerve is it's yin andyang, if you like.
It's, it's electromagnetic, andwhen the vagus nerve is.
Constantly under stress andpicking up signals of stress,
cortisol, the internal signals,as well as its job, which is

(45:13):
monitoring externals, and it hasa conversation with the adrenals
and all the rest of it's goingon.
It's very, very, veryhardworking.
And while that's, that state canbecome so familiar, it feels
normal.
and I'm sure you teach us a lot,don't have an experience of

(45:35):
pleasure or comfort or safety.
They don't have a dating point.
Their life feels like that,right?
It feels like that.
This is the way to be.
You can't trust anyone, youknow, don't relax and enjoy
yourself.
Whenever they see or feel isfiltered because the vagus nerve
isn't able to relax enough togive them a broad range of

(46:00):
signals to see things from arelaxed standpoint.
That person wasn't glaring atyou.
They were just, look, you know,the sun was in their eyes.
That person was smiling at youbecause you're pretty, you know,
it's like all those filters.
The vagus nerve is snake to meit's like that muscle, it's like
90% muscle.

(46:21):
It's, it's a sensing organ.

Leah (46:23):
Mm-hmm.

Deb (46:25):
So when we don't allow it to be sensory, when we will only
listen the signals that come upat, you know, picosecond or
whatever it is, from the base tothe brain, we're in that sort of
forward going reactive place.
So the teaching for the vagusnerve is to balance that.
It's not to have.
One without the other is tounderstand that once you un

(46:48):
realize you are in a contractedstate, some it it, how does a
person know that?
You know?
It's for some, it's when theirlife just gets so intolerable.
They reach out for help often,you know, or there's a major
life crisis or a health crisis.
Those tend to be the ways thebody gets noticed, right?

(47:11):
they, once they can find andtrust someone who can explain to
them, your experience isn't thewhole of the experience you
could be having.
You know that there's a lotmore, and if you and want to
walk that path, the path ofsensuality, of relaxation, of
living very broadly and makinggreat choices from that rather

(47:33):
than.
These same narrow band ofchoices, you're gonna have to
work with a.

Willow (47:39):
Yeah, there's a, there's a level of, um, safety that has
to be, um experienced in orderto, it's sort of a, it's sort of
a, a cyclical thing, you know?
It's like if we can, if we cancreate safety, then we can
experience safety that will openup your receptive channel.
In, in Chinese medicine, the,the vagus nerve and the yin

(48:00):
meridian, which runs right downthe, through the front of the
body are synonymous.
And so that we also call thatyin meridian, we call it the
receptive channel, know, andthat, I think that's really the
divine feminines greatestsuperpower is to receive.
And so much of our youngdominant culture is going out
and getting, going out andachieving, go make it happen.

(48:22):
You know, make, do

Leah (48:23):
Grasping.

Willow (48:25):
I.
And yeah.
And so, and to, to not negatethat because there's a lot of
power in that.
There's a lot of good in that wewanna go out and get, but we
also wanna be able to sit backand receive.
And I think that's, um, one ofthe most, you know, really,
really powerful, uh, thingsabout having a relationship with
your vagus nerve, especiallythrough sensuality, through

(48:45):
sexuality as you keep pointingto Debs, is like feeling,
feeling your way through liferather than always thinking your
way through life.
And raise your hand if you knowthat you lead with your
prefrontal cortex over yourheart.
You know, so many of us do.
And it's partially because we'reswimming in the water of that,
that's what our culture is madeup of.

(49:07):
So of course we're gonna getwet, you know.
But these, the practices thatyou outline in your book really,
um, help to rewire somebody'sphysicality so that they can
feel their way through life sothat they can awaken that
receptive vessel or thatreceptive channel within and.

Leah (49:27):
Let's talk about some of those practices so that this
becomes a practical, right?
Because, um, many people who arelistening don't know how to get
in touch with their vagus nerve.
They're not even sure wheretheir vagus nerve is.
They don't know, you know, like,okay, I notice I'm triggered now
what?

Willow (49:43):
Yeah, let's make it doable for them today.
What can someone do in theirlife right now today if they
find themselves in a contractedstressed, you know, not open
state?

Deb (49:56):
How will they know?
You know, how do they know?
And uh, and that sounds oversimplistic, but you know, ask
yourself the question, what do Ido?
How do I become?
Where in my body am I suddenlyconscious that I'm holding
tension or holding words back?
So start to internally searcharound your body.

(50:18):
You need that piece ofinformation.
And then of course, it's thebreath, right?
It's the very next breath.
Because when we move, um, thediaphragm, we're gonna touch the
emotions.
We're gonna bring those emotionsback towards the heart.
Coming back to emotionalmastery, of course, your ego
doesn't want you to do that.

(50:39):
So it's, it's a, a moment ofself-awareness.
Am I contracted?
Do my shoulders hurt?
Do I have, Am I gritting myteeth?
Am I, you know, what am I doing?
Am I fist clench?
Because we have to pay attentionto ourself.
And that's a loving act, right?
Is paying attention to theinner, not just the inner being,

(51:01):
but the animal being of us.
This highly intelligent system.
begin that dialogue, you justtake a couple of deep breaths
and push those receptors in thelungs and sudden you might feel
a difference.
And it's tiny little thingslike, I noticed a difference.
What happened?
Self informing.

(51:22):
Now when I pause and see where Iam and what I'm doing and become
aware, suddenly that very narrowmoment starts to widen.
'cause what do we want?
Spaciousness expansion.
When I do that and I take threedeep breaths, what happened?
What if I gave up for a moment,the need to control the next

(51:43):
thing?
What if I just focused on myselffor a minute and not the
situation?
I.

Leah (51:51):
I had a mo, I had a moment today.
Um.
I'm the techie of everyexperience in my life.
Everyone in my life has a hardtime with technology almost, and
my husband specifically, so he'shaving a password issue and
every, he has a password issue.
It is stop immediately, whateverI'm doing, and run and solve the
problem.
And oh, by the way, he's pissedoff at it.

(52:12):
So his tone directed to meisn't, would you please help me?
It's, ah, this doesn't work andyou have to fix it, you know,
and I'm pretty patient, buttoday I wasn't.
I was pissed off at beinginterrupted.
I was pissed off that I wasn'tasked politely, and then I was
pissed off that I didn't get anygratitude.
And so, and it wasn't like,normally I'm so much more

(52:35):
patient than this, but today itwas like the, the accumulation
of every single time this hashappened.
And so I really lashed out and Iam cursing and my voice is
raised and I am pissing andmoaning.
I'm slamming shit down.
And, and I'm thinking, you know,we're, he's like, what is going
on with you?
'cause now I'm overreacting andI can feel

Willow (52:57):
you react like that

Leah (52:59):
right, but I know that like,

Willow (53:00):
levels might be low, Leah?

Leah (53:01):
well, they probably are, but I knew as it was happening.
I'm flooded, I'm flooded, and Idon't have all my resources
available to react in the waythat would feel good to me.
So instead, like the judgmentsstart coming, like I'm being
hypocritical.
I'm now reacting in a way that'slike, I'm mad at him for
reacting, and now I'm reactingbigger as if to somehow get back

(53:25):
at him more.
And I just said, I, I can't keeptalking about this because I
can't get rid of this tone ofvoice if I keep talking about
it.
I have to, now I have to get outof flooded mood.
Yeah.
So just gimme a minute so that Ican talk to you like a
reasonable human being and notsomeone who's filled with
contempt and, um, it's souncomfortable, right?

(53:48):
And, and it's like the labelsarise that wants to be very
judgmental towards myself.
And so I noticed that and I justkind of breathed some space,
like you were just saying.
It was like, let me love andrespect myself enough to
actually have the space I needto recalibrate, and then come
back to the table and go, youknow, that was a regrettable

(54:10):
moment.
I wish I had reacteddifferently.
Here's how this would feelbetter in the future.
And this is the accumulation ofthings that I haven't said over
the years because I wanna behelpful and easygoing and not
demanding and controlling.
So every once in a while thetsunami comes over and there's a

(54:32):
regrettable reaction.
Um.
Now can I have a kiss and thenit moment, right, like kiss,
which I appreciated.
But it takes, it takes thosetimes, it takes that breath.

(54:55):
It takes being able to talk backto your thoughts of judgment,
whether that is like blamingyourself or blaming someone
else, and then like to kind ofcome out of the blame game and
go permission to be human.

Willow (55:08):
Yeah.
I wonder, Deb's, go ahead.

Deb (55:11):
I was

Willow (55:12):
Go ahead.

Deb (55:12):
wanted to lobby little point that you so powerfully
described there without that,and even with that, it's, oh,
it's my hormones, it's not me.
Oh, it's her hormones.
And that's when some of thereally messy stuffs kicks off
because hormones are justmessengers, right?

(55:34):
They're just biochemistryhappening in your body.
And when we've, as youdescribed, built up something
and suddenly this hormonalchange starts to happen.
We can very often act.
I remember thinking, this isn'tme.
Yeah.
And then I thought, but it is.
That was you that wentdownstairs and pulled the phone
out of the wall and that wasn'tanybody else, was it?

Leah (55:56):
Right.

Deb (55:58):
But we, because we are not socialized in a way that helps
us to, even earlier, like someof the younger ones are now
preempt those by being who weneed to be from the off.
Right?

Willow (56:12):
Mm-hmm.

Deb (56:12):
It does build up and then you get, uh, as you say,
beautiful tsunami,

Leah (56:18):
Right.

Deb (56:18):
there's that shaking of heads and going, well, you know,
it's her age and it's not.
At its absolute fundamentallevel, it's not your age, it's
just that you've reached the agewhere it's not gonna, what what
you've been, isn't what naturewants for you anymore.
Didn't in the first place.

Leah (56:36):
Hmm,

Willow (56:37):
You

Leah (56:38):
that's really helpful.

Willow (56:39):
it will be interesting to see these generations that
are coming up behind Leah and I,who are gi being given a lot
more permission in, in a lot ofways to be more authentic and to
be more of themselves and toexplore what that means on, on
all levels, sexually andotherwise.
um, I, it will be fascinating tosee what, you know, shakes out

(57:00):
with them when their ovariesstart to take their final bow
and, you know, their adrenalshave to kick in.
Also, knowing that their,they've been raised in a
generation that has a, a lotmore cortisol kick in, you know,
and a lot more comparing mindgoing on due to all the social
media and stuff.

(57:21):
It'll just be interesting tosee.
Um, Debs, I wonder if you couldclose this out with, um, like
guiding us through a practice.
There's one in your book that Ilove.
It's, um, where you draw thesesilver strands of light down
through your right side and yourleft side through your womb and
into the earth.

Deb (57:39):
Now that'll be one of the transference, healing one.
There's the golden thread, butthat takes quite a long time.
I don't think we'll have timefor that this

Willow (57:47):
Whatever you think is like digestible for our
audience.

Deb (57:52):
The one I'd like to share, and it comes from transference
healing, which is anchored andchanneled and looked after by a
woman, remarkable woman calledAlexis Cartwright.
So I'm acknowledging her onethat I go to.
Times a day is called thefeeling vortex cleaning
procedure, and this can be foundin her book Beyond Doorways.

(58:15):
When I first startedtransference, this stuff wasn't
published, but of course, timeshave changed, right?
feeling vortex is.
A Socratic system above the onewe are most familiar with.
So it's the point at which lightand sound enter and then they
split to become solar plexus andwomb chakra.

(58:36):
So the feeling vortex, if youlike, if you were to imagine it,
know, I, I usually put my handssomewhere around my belly button
ish area and just feel for a bitof density.
It.
It doesn't matter if people feelit or not because it's gonna
happen.
I'm going to probably help mostby standing up.
I dunno if you can see me wellenough.

(58:57):
So I'm going to start by settingan intention and I'll do the, so
why I am doing this is becausewe collect a lot of energetic
junk both through the birthprocess and in our daily life
through sexual practice and thatbiochemical energy.
get really stuck here.

(59:19):
Other people's stuff, we don'twant.
People coming in at usemotionally will come in through
this vortex.
So I hold a diamond shape and Ijust say to myself, I hold the
intention to shut down toenergetic interference.
And I just twist it a littlebit.
So I wanna close it because fora lot of women, particularly,

(59:40):
this is very, very open.
It happens through the birthingprocess.
It doesn't close down properly,all kinds of stuff.
I just reach in I can feel nowlike little strands.
Again, it's just something thatcomes with practice.
It's, it's more of a felt thingwhere perhaps I've walked
around, I've been very closephysically with somebody today.

(01:00:03):
You know, we might haveexchanged some energy there, sub
the level of my consciousnessand to keep me being me.
I don't want that, but it's notreleasing me.
It's meaning more energy cancome to my heart, so I can live
from here.

Leah (01:00:18):
Mm.

Deb (01:00:19):
it down to the size of a dime.
with my left hand, which isgoing out, I'm going to imagine
a ball of white light, puresourcing energy.
And what we've been talkingabout in a sense is resourcing,
right?
I'm going to point a finger,that's my power finger, bring
that white energy in.
It'll move that it's just movingitself, I'm counting down from a

(01:00:42):
hundred.
To zero because I need toresource that part of my body.
In women, it gets incrediblydepleted.
you said, Dr.
Willow, we weep before we feelangry.
You know, all that emotionalenergy's pouring out, so we need
to keep it tight.

(01:01:02):
And these are simple, beautifulthings that people can learn
from the book.
They can go to a teacher's,plenty of transference teachers
in America.
I'll be there myself later thisyear.

Leah (01:01:14):
Remind us the name of your book.

Deb (01:01:16):
the book's called The Voice, the Vulva, and the Vagus
Nerve.

Leah (01:01:19):
Hmm.
Lovely.
And in closing, is there anywisdom you wanna share with our
audience around sensuality, sexand pleasure.

Deb (01:01:29):
If you are not getting it, it's not that you're broken,
it's that you, you are, you arejust not yet, been allowed to
tap into the deep healingbeauty.
Importance of this.
Don't deny yourself thisopportunity in the human body to
experience the deep pleasurethat you are, you are designed

(01:01:52):
for.
You know, that's the quickestway to say to somebody is you
are not broken.
You haven't had an orgasm,that's not your fault.
You know, your body knows how.
Please don't deny yourself Allowthe, the joy of being in a body.
Even if you don't believe meright now, part of you will know

(01:02:13):
that there's something you arenot having.

Leah (01:02:16):
Mm.

Deb (01:02:16):
And if you're

Leah (01:02:17):
having

Deb (01:02:18):
beautiful sensuality, increase it.
Keep growing.
Do more, find more ways.

Leah (01:02:25):
Thank you, and you have a beautiful gift for our audience.
Discover your Shadow saboteur.
This is a quiz that helps toidentify the shadow aspect
impacting your decisions, anduh, where can we find that?

Deb (01:02:40):
That's on my website.
It'll be the first page you cometo

Leah (01:02:43):
Great.

Deb (01:02:44):
it's a simple enough thing, but you know, it's taken me
years.
I, I suppose, to help peopleunderstand that what's making
the decision isn't always whoyou

Willow (01:02:55):
The conscious.

Leah (01:02:56):
Right, right.
Beautiful.

Willow (01:02:59):
thank you so much for all your wisdom and for sharing
with us today.
It was such a pleasure, such anhonor to have you on the show.

Deb (01:03:07):
It's an honor to be asked.
It's an honor to be given thespace to share with people that
I hope I touch somebody withsomething that, and I'm in awe
of your work.
I'm inspired by you bothtremendously.
I know where there's women likeyou in the world.
We'll go in the right direction.

Leah (01:03:24):
Mm.
Beautiful.
Thank you so much.
And now.
Up next is the dish, so pleasestay tuned.

Announcer (01:03:34):
Now our favorite part, the dish.

Leah (01:03:39):
Well, that was a very fun, uh, esoteric episode.
Um,

Willow (01:03:45):
I love the esoteric realm.

Leah (01:03:48):
I'm like, you should have a podcast just doing esoteric
stuff because that is so yourhappy

Willow (01:03:53):
place.
I know, I know.
It's great.
Well, I just think that there's,um, and sometimes I wanna say
too, sometimes I get, uh,fatigued by the esoteric realm.

Leah (01:04:04):
Yeah.

Willow (01:04:04):
I'm like trying to follow what the hell they're
saying if I, if I'm, if I'm withthem.
You know, it's like okay good.
But if it's like this is a bunchof hoo-ha I have that side of me
too probably comes from my mom.
But, um,

Leah (01:04:16):
Is that right?

Willow (01:04:18):
but, um.
But yeah, I mean, you know, for,for for over 20 years I've been
teaching women about theirconnection between their voice
and their vulva.
You know, and so to really bringin the soul, that was the, the
big thing that I really got fromthe book was, um, how the vagus
nerve aligns with the soulpurpose and that soul calling
and how there is a, a deepconnection and relationship, not

(01:04:41):
just in the physicality of ourbodies, of how.
You know, if we open our throat,we open our expression, we open
our hearts, then yes, it'seasier for us to open our, our
genitals to receive more loveinto our lives.
That is more of a, it feels likemore of a, a physical, although
emotional and spiritual as well.
But then there was this soulthing that came in through

Leah (01:05:03):
Oh, interesting.

Willow (01:05:05):
of the vagus nerve, that really felt like a, a piece that
I, I had never consideredbefore.

Leah (01:05:10):
Mm.

Willow (01:05:11):
you know, you just don't know what you don't know until
you start to someone, untilsomeone opens you up to it.

Leah (01:05:16):
Uh, I loved her use of the word, um, vivid.
What was it?
Uh.

Willow (01:05:22):
Viv Vivid

Leah (01:05:23):
VV ification or something like that.
Yeah, vation.
I was like, Ooh.
Yeah.
Like it feels like being filledwith a vivid vitality, being
filled with like dimension andlight and radiance.
Um, I really got a beautifulpicture of sort of that
alchemical response when weclean up, you know, when we

(01:05:46):
clear up and clean up and get tosort of that soul level that you
were referring to.
We become this very, uh,vitality.
Um, very vivid, very kind ofmusical like, yeah, very alive.
Like, and I do get geeked out onthe energetics, like I could

(01:06:07):
see, um, I was picking up whatshe was putting down.
My concern was, was it clearenough for people who aren't
beginners or don't know exactlythis, um, this wavelength of
teaching.
If you, if you don't live inthat landscape, it's hard to
follow.

Willow (01:06:26):
It can be, yeah,

Leah (01:06:27):
Yeah.

Willow (01:06:27):
I think that's why, you know,

Leah (01:06:28):
Like when you don't know about Chakras and you don't know
about, um, Chiron or astrologyor, you know, imagery work, you
know, or, or working in what Icall the airwaves, um, you know,
the, the people who would know,when you say reiki, what you're
talking about,

Willow (01:06:44):
that means.
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.

Leah (01:06:47):
uh, um,

Willow (01:06:48):
good to like break all that down with her and

Leah (01:06:50):
yeah.

Willow (01:06:51):
you know, bring it back down to earth for our listeners.
So we'd be curious to hear whatyou think about this episode and
how it landed with you.
Um, if you felt like, boy, whatthe heck was she even talking
about that whole time?
Or if it really awoke somethingin you and, and made you more
curious and, and you werefollowing along pretty,

Leah (01:07:11):
Yeah, I was really inspired by her.
You know, I felt like, um, Ithink she's speaking to
something that's reallyimportant, this under this
underpinnings of, like thismaturation process.
But it's, it's, it, I wish Icould, um, summarize it the way
I want to.
I'll have to, I know when Irewatch it, it will, I'll have,

(01:07:34):
I'll get more from it.

Willow (01:07:36):
more fine tuned.
Yeah.
I

Leah (01:07:37):
Yeah.

Willow (01:07:38):
you know, this, the, the piece that I really loved that
she highlighted was like theChiron, the Soul purpose, and
then that Kundalini energy andhow it's that 52 year return or
thereabouts.
Um, so it's like in that, inthat range of life, if we
haven't been nurturing andfollowing and cultivating our

(01:08:00):
sole purpose, it's probablygonna hit our life force energy,
our kundalini, our Shakti, in away that, um, could potentially,
you know, feel, feel verychallenging at that point in
life.
And it's, it's very poignant

Leah (01:08:17):
Well, and it could just feel challenging anyways because
it's sort of the nature, thenature of, um, these
astrological initiations, youknow?
Yeah.

Willow (01:08:27):
Yeah.
For me, it felt like a reallypoignant and timely conversation
simply because I've been lookingvery closely at my sole purpose
and thinking, having moments oflike, okay, yes, this needs to
be delivered into the world.
I need to keep going.
I need to keep forging ahead andmaking it happen versus, um

(01:08:48):
maybe I just need to go domicroneedling for wrinkles in
Southern California where itwould be easy and make a lot of
money.
You know?
And so there's, it's just beeninspiring.
There's been a lot ofinspiration coming in for me
lately to like, don't give up,keep

Leah (01:09:05):
Yeah.

Willow (01:09:05):
know, keep forging

Leah (01:09:07):
Yeah.
That's interesting because Ialso feel like I went through a
portal of contraction.
Looking at the same thing, likehow hard am I gonna work for the
little returns versus, eventhough I may not get like
whatever the status or thewhatever feels like would be the

(01:09:27):
most life satisfying success.
Like if I could make the biggestimpact, you know, broadbanding
this way with what's in my heartand soul versus I just wanna do
what gives me the most space,the most ease, the most money,
and the most freedom, because Idon't wanna work forever and
ever and ever.

(01:09:48):
I want to pursue the otherthings I care about, like
traveling for pleasure andspending time with the people I
love the most and not alwaysbeing in service in order to
survive.
And I have made some harddecisions to go, yeah, I'm not
gonna care about the things Ithought I cared about as
strongly.
And I'm gonna do the thing thatgets me to that result, which is

(01:10:12):
a change in priorities, youknow?

Willow (01:10:14):
Yeah.
And that's happening for us now,like at the, this time in

Leah (01:10:19):
Yeah.
And I'm still open to all ofthat changing again.
Know it's gonna go with like it,which I think is, she's saying
it's monitoring the feeling ofrelaxation.
When I am presented with anopportunity, do I feel relaxed,

(01:10:40):
inspired, or do I feel tight andlike, oh, I have to say yes.
Like there's all these physicalsensations that if we pay
attention to less about thethoughts, more about the
sensations, then I think we endup making better choices for
ourselves.
It's hard.
You know, because all of ourconditioning gives us a lot of

(01:11:00):
thoughts about what we shouldagree to, and I was just even
like small things.
Like this week I over-committedmyself on a couple things and I
had to then call back and Imean, it sucked because I had
them, I this, it's a new personmy friend wants me to meet and
we were gonna like go do lunch.
And I had them change days andthen I realized, oh God, I'm

(01:11:21):
really overcommitting'cause Ihave to go outta town the next
day.
And I said, look, I'm not sure.
And then I went ahead and pickeda restaurant that was closer to
my house so I didn't have todrive far away to kind of make
it happen.
And then I forgot that my bestfriend is coming into town that
same day and like, what am Idoing?
Like I knew in the verybeginning at the very first text
that it was a no.

(01:11:43):
It was a fucking, no, I can'tcommit.
But then what did I do?
I tried to squeeze myself into ahundred boxes to say yes when I
knew from jump.
It was a no.

Willow (01:11:54):
a no.
Listen to that people

Leah (01:11:57):
Listen to it,

Willow (01:11:58):
and your no,

Leah (01:11:59):
boy.
Save yourself some time.

Willow (01:12:02):
Yeah.
And energy,

Leah (01:12:04):
Okay, everyone, much love.

Announcer (01:12:09):
Thanks for tuning in.
This episode was hosted byTantric Sex Master Coach and
positive psychology facilitator,Leah Piper, as well as by
Chinese and Functional Medicinedoctor and Taoist Taxology
teacher, Dr.
Willow Brown.
Don't forget your comments, likesubscribes and suggestions
matter.
Let's realize this new worldtogether.

All Episodes

Debs de Vries: Menopause or Spiritual Awakening? How To Hear The Wisdom Hidden In Your Hormonal Changes | #140

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

24/7 News: The Latest

Dateline NBC

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Debs de Vries: Menopause or Spiritual Awakening? How To Hear The Wisdom Hidden In Your Hormonal Changes | #140