Leah & Dr. Willow: Why Your Trust Issues Are Actually Self-Trust Issues (The Inside Game) | #141 - The Sex Reimagined Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Announcer (00:01):
Welcome to the Sex Reimagined Podcast, where sex is
shame-free and pleasure forward.
Let's get into the show.

Leah (00:10):
You know it is one of our favorite times of the month
where we give you an LXW episodethat is Leah and Willow all by
ourselves shooting the shit andgiving you lots of great love,
sex, and intimacy advice.
You are at the Sex ReimaginePodcast.
My name is Leah Piper.

trust | willow (unedited) (00:30):
And I'm Dr.
Willow Brown, and today we'redropping into the topic of trust
because that's been coming up inour work a lot lately with our
clients.
And of course, it's always atopic that is near and dear to
us personally, trust.
And so we're gonna give you allsome ways to build more trust
inside of yourself, to buildmore trust inside of your

(00:53):
relationships.
And particularly to rebuildtrust if it has been broken
inside of your relationships.
So this is going to be a verydeep and exciting episode of,
um, gosh, just how to, how tolean into and relax into your
life even more.

Leah (01:14):
Yeah.
I have to say regardless of thetype of sex you're having, sex
is always best when you reallytrust the person that you are
fucking or making love to

It's so true.
It's just, it makes a world ofdifference because you can be

Leah (01:33):
vulnerable.

Like if you really, really trust the
person get more, more Outside ofown comfort zone with.
Then you get to explore placesinside of you that, um, are, you
know, uncharted, unchartedterritory and in sexuality.
I think that's one of the thingsthat drives eros, you know,

(01:57):
like, oh, I've never done thatbefore.
Exciting and fun.

Leah (02:01):
Yeah.
You know, we were talking theother day about the type of
people that are just supertrusting in general.
They kind of live in the world,assuming the best and lead with
trust.
And then other people who I.
You know, do not do that.
They are looking to see thattrust is earned.
They're, um, they're much morecautious and conservative about

(02:24):
their trusting.
It's a privilege.
Um, and you and I agreed.
And I'm curious about those ofyou who are listening.
Are you the type of person wholeads with trust or maybe
suspicion?
Um, and tell us why.

ones and guess which one we are.
Okay.
I wanna put that in thecomments.
We're gonna hold a littlecontest for you all.
Like do you think Leah and I,both of us are,'cause we're the
same, lo and behold, um, do

Leah (02:49):
Do you think that

lead with trust

Leah (02:51):
Yeah,

think that we lead with, I guess
suspicion would be the otherside of that coin, for lack of a
better word, but

Leah (02:57):
yeah.
Well, we're gonna go ahead andgive you that answer now.
Uh, because, and, and I trust weare very, we tend to be very
trusting.
We prefer to be the trustingtype.
Um, I always trust people untilthey gimme a reason not to trust
them.

Yeah,

Leah (03:14):
I like that

leads to a world of hurt.
I will say.

Leah (03:18):
It can bite you in the ass.
My, my sister thinks that isjust.
Irresponsible and stupid.
She's like, Leah, do you knowhow much I've worried about you
over the years when you've donesome, you're traveling across
the country and you're living ina tent, and then you're living
in a car, and then you're livingon the beach and you're always
doing things that seemdangerous,

trust | willow (unedited (03:37):
Right.

Leah (03:38):
um, and you'll just trust anyone.
You know?
I think she imagines that I'lljust get in the car with
anybody.

Well, I gotta tell you, I did that
yesterday.

Leah (03:47):
Oh.

I did that yesterday.
I got in the car with justanybody.

Leah (03:51):
Oh,

trust | willow (unedit (03:52):
anybody.
I had one conversation on thephone with them.

Leah (03:56):
oh my God.
You gotta tell us more details.
Oh,

I don't

Leah (03:58):
because, because our imagination's now running wild.

I don't know if I

Leah (04:02):
I can,

it's so personal, you know, I'm down
to get personal on the, on thepodcast with y'all, but
sometimes I just

Leah (04:09):
so

a line in the

Leah (04:10):
that's right.
Sometimes you just need to letit be all for you until you're
ready to talk about it.
But, um.
Yeah, I don't know.
Sometimes I listen to my sisterin this argument and I'm like,
yeah, it's, it's reasonable whatyou're saying and when you say
it like that, am I a littlePollyanna?

right?

Leah (04:27):
Um, but by and large, I just.
I don't, I, I guess I believestrong in my system and I
create, I try to create acoherent field around my body
and my home and wherever I am inthe world that I'm not visible
to perpetrators.

That's right.
I love that.

Leah (04:49):
Yeah.
And that I'm not, um, my energyis not going to hold the victim
mindset.

Yeah.
And

Leah (04:57):
you know, that.

that, not to jump too far ahead in our
episode already, but what Aliyahis speaking to is one of the
things that we wanna give you,which is like trusting in your
own nervous.
Like you can tell when somethingis open and feels right and it's
okay and it feels good, and thenthere's other times when you can
tell like, oh, there was aclosing.
There was a wrapping inward ofmy, my nervous system around

(05:22):
that situation or that person.
But I went and I did it anyway,and then I got bit in the ass.
You know, so it's like over timeyou start to learn to trust your
own opening and closing of yournervous system around certain
encounters with certain people.
Um, you know, even as you'regoing along in relationships
sometimes you probably have hadthe experience where it's like,

(05:45):
oh, this relationship, I cantell something is off and
something might be coming to,some kind of closure or.
End point, but it hasn'tactually done that yet, and then
a couple of weeks later, boom,it closes itself down.

Leah (06:01):
I think obviously our life experiences inform also our
ability for trust to come easyor not.
You know, if you've dated threenarcissists

is a really good point.

Leah (06:11):
you've been love bombed and you have um, been gaslit,
you know, in a marriage for 20years, it is reasonable and
probably in some ways wise tore.
Yeah, at at least do what youneed to do to have better
distinctions, to see signs, to,um, do some deeper work around

(06:36):
how to better protect yourself.
And that may be a process untilyou are able to more fully trust
in a way that feels good.

Yeah, I, you know, and piggybacking on

Leah (06:46):
Uh, I wanna.

say like even it is for some people
have, have grown up with traumaand abuse in the household.
Um, could be physical, could besexual, could be verbal abuse.
All of that can equally really,um, inhibit your ability to un

(07:07):
to understand your own nervoussystem and understand what's
safe and what's not.
So that that experience ofopening and closing might be
really just the foundation mayhave never gotten laid down
inside of you.
And I just wanna put a pluginfor Journey work and Plant
Medicine around that particularpiece because I have seen people

(07:29):
who, who came from thoseupbringings and came from just
lots of, I mean, horrific abusethings that you wouldn't even
see in the movies.
And through psychedelic, throughjourney work, they have come to
a place inside of themselveswhere they really.
Um, they really know how to readenergy better.

(07:51):
They really know how to readsigns and even people's faces
and read ener, you know, readthe, the frequency of What's
going to a point where they canremove themselves

Leah (08:03):
on doesn't.

safe for them, or step forward if it
does feel right.

Leah (08:07):
That's as a result of doing plant medicine,

trust | willow (unedite (08:10):
Mm-hmm.

Leah (08:10):
you're saying?
Yeah.
Well, you know,

way to heal.
And sexuality or sexualpractices is another way to do
that.
Like those two medicines, likereally opening up your Shakti
and awakening through tantricpractices and plant medicine,
both of them can just completelyredefine your nervous system.
So plugs for both.

Leah (08:31):
I think that's interesting that you bring that up because
it reminds me of a lot of peoplethat I know, even if it wasn't
like super traumatic, but theirparents, you know, there was a
cheating parent who was alwayslying, or there was a parent
that used emotions tomanipulate.

Mm-hmm.

Leah (08:50):
and to kinda hold the family hostage.

Mm-hmm.

Leah (08:52):
I think when you have that as a part of your conditioning
in terms of like what love lookslike, it's no wonder that there
would be some trust in yournervous system that has been
disrupted, that now needs to berewired.
And that can be some harderpatterns to shift because they
were laid down when your brainwas so young and it's still

(09:14):
developing.
Um, and I really think justtraditional therapy.
Can do wonders around this typeof work.
I do have to say yes.
I think that things like, um,sexual healing and, and other
somatic practices, um, are, arevery helpful.
But I would caution a little bitjumping into the sexual healing

(09:37):
space without doing Somefundamental pieces because what
I notice is when someone has alot of trust trauma, they're
also the ones that tend to nottake responsibility for things
that, for a rupture that theydon't understand.
And there there can be a lot ofprojections and transference to

(09:59):
the person who's giving to them,um, that makes them actually not
a trustworthy person to workwith.
And so I think sometimes thesexual work is a little bit
delicate and it requires ifyou're gonna engage in it,
having some good personalresponsibility, not being brand
new to therapeutic processes sothat you've got a foundation and

(10:21):
a maturity to go to that levelof nudity because of the
vulnerability.

That's a really good caution and a
really good point.
I mean, there's so many andthere's so many somatic
practices these days.
Somato emotional release, EMDR,um, you know, gosh,

Leah (10:37):
Uh, IFS Internal Family Systems.
Yeah,

say that I took the words outta my
mouth and I,

Leah (10:43):
I, I love that you brought

forward because Yeah, the sexuality
piece, it's such a root piece ofwhere we generally societally
don't trust.
that.
so if that, if you don't havesome kind of foundation, it can
be, it could potentially takeyou further down the, I don't
trust one path Now Now I'm.
Leah,'cause you've been workingwith people hands on for so many

(11:06):
years.
Have you had that experience?
I've never had it.

Leah (11:09):
I've watched Delay Detonations a lot.
I've seen it, especially in theseminar space.
And thankfully that's a goodplace for those things to happen
because there's a lot of support

I've seen it there,

Leah (11:21):
yeah, so you know, you have two students who are
beginners learning this andit's, um.
It's not a bad thing for that toshow up because it helps give a
template for everybody how tohandle, um, that kind of
experience.
Uh, but it really, it, it's hardbecause everyone's triggered
and, and their safety patternsare, are up and people are at

(11:45):
different levels of takingpersonal responsibility and are
at different levels of theirability to receive feedback.
And how they're gonnainternalize that and the meaning
that they make about that.

So true.

Leah (11:58):
yeah.

Oh, isn't hu Aren't humans People?
So humans.
Peoples.
They're so fascinating.
There's so many layers to them.
Alright.
Well let's.
into the pros and cons of trustinside of sexuality and romance.
Obviously, we've talked aboutsome pros already.
Deep trust within yourself andwithin relationship to another

(12:20):
person can create uninhibitedpleasure total.
Paths To um, so let these, uh,waves of eroticism, rapture and
arousal.
Never had before can come to youand it can really create this
deep sense of emotional depth.

Leah (12:40):
Yeah.
You know, I wanna talk aboutlike the pros because there's a
certain sense of security thatwhen you can internalize trust,
your sense of security is growsexponentially in so many
different sectors of your life.
You trust your inner guidance,that what you feel deep inside

(13:02):
is the right path for you, thatdespite what other people want
you to do.
That you choose your ownsovereignty, you move forward to
really trust your gut and yoursystem.
And when you can do thatrepeatedly with good success,
that gets stronger and strongerand stronger.
So I think having trust in yourinner guidance is something to

(13:26):
develop.
I.

trust | willow (uned (13:28):
Absolutely 110%.
And I think it's something thatwe continue to develop.
'cause you know, I've had theexperience so many, well, not so
many times, but.
Recently, many times recently,in the last few years, where
it's like I got just completelyblindsided.
I was just in total faith andtrust and then, you know, got
slapped upside the head withsomething different.

(13:50):
And so it can be Like I, Ialways really prided on being
someone who has.
myself of in this.
you know, where did this faitheven come from?
I don't know.
God gave it to me.
But when I look at, you know, myfamily structure, like I, I've
never met a man in the world whohas more faith in the universe
and in God than my father.

(14:11):
So that's where it came from forme.
But when it gets rocked to thecore like that,

Leah (14:17):
Yeah.
Oof.
And so what's the meaning thatyou make for yourself when that
kind of takes you down to yourknees?
How do you come back from that?
How do you work with your ownthoughts and your feelings
around that?

Boy, it is a journey.
I mean, I think when you havealready a, a, a sense of what
faith is in life and likevesting flow and trusting the
unfolding, and this door closesso that window can open and with
that whole you know, path.
If been on it for a while andyou kind of understand it and
know it, it can be easier youback to that, if get rocked to

(14:57):
your core.
you, but it's, can take time andyeah.
just being really patient and,um,

Leah (15:05):
Compassionate and,

trust | willow ( (15:06):
compassionate.
And and then just being like, Idon't fucking trust.
you know, just

Leah (15:11):
Yeah.

it like In this moment I

Leah (15:13):
I don't have faith.
Yes.
And giving yourself permissionto actually be present to that
instead of trying to bypass itemotionally.

Exactly.

Leah (15:21):
You know, this is a cliche, but it does give me
comfort.
So I return to it time and timeagain.
But it's the saying, it's nothappening to me.
It's happening for me.

Yeah, I had someone else say something
to me once they're like, yeah,it's not happening for me.
Even it's not happening to me.
It's happening, Happening forme.
happening through me.

Leah (15:42):
Oh, that's a new one.
I like that.

Yeah.
So that really, that that's.
been a part of my journey forsure.
And coming back to, to faith andtrust is like taking my persona
out of the equation.
You know, getting like morecosmic with, with it all and
just.
Being like, this is just anexperience.
You know, I am not, I am not Dr.
Willow Brown.
I am not this ego.

(16:06):
I am not this person that is putOut into the world but rather
like I am a, a, a walking.
you know, of cells that isinteracting with atoms and cells
all around me.
And this is just what's flowingthrough at the moment.

Leah (16:23):
You know, back to security, I was thinking about
like trust and security and Ifeel really fortunate to have a
marriage where we have a verystrong foundation of security.

Mm-hmm.

Leah (16:34):
when I think about the times where I questioned that,
I.
So within your marriage?
or Yes, life.
my marriage.
Like really wanting Matt'ssupport in a very specific way
for specific reasons and feelingcrushed when that is just not
something he can provide.

Right.

Leah (16:55):
I'll, I'll give you like, there's certain parts of my
career.
Matt's very generous and totallybelieves in me and, and, um, and
loves what I do, all that stuff.
It's not that he has any problemwith my career choice, but there
have been times when I want himto give me the level of faith
that my father gives me, whichis that message.

(17:16):
You can be anything you want.
You know, like you can have it,oh, it's like that cheerleader
in the corner that just seesyour genius and your brilliance
and thinks you're just thebiggest star in the world.
And I, I had that with Charles,you know, he, he provided that
and, and that was really goodfor me.
And so when Matt really wasn'tinterested, at all.

(17:40):
And kind of giving me that kindof messaging is like, eh, like
it's not in alignment for me.
Leah.
Yes, I think you're great.
But no, I don't care if you're asuperstar.
In fact, I prefer if youweren't.

Uh, Uhhuh.

Leah (17:52):
just gobsmacked.
I couldn't believe it.

Right,

Leah (17:56):
was so outta, I just thought it was unreasonable.
I'm like, fake it, you know?
Um, so.

man in my life that's been in
primary is felt that way.

Leah (18:08):
So it's an interesting thing to just go, okay.
Okay.
I can't, I, this is not worth afight.
This is his truth.
What am I gonna do?
Am I gonna make this meansomething about him or make that
mean something about my worththat he doesn't see me or
something?
And then I just, I sat with thatfor a little while and said, you
know what, i'm gonna trust otherpeople who authentically do see

(18:29):
that in me.
And when I need that kind ofreflection, I have other people
I can go to.
It doesn't have to come from myromantic partner.

Mm-hmm.

Leah (18:39):
and that.

come from me.

Leah (18:41):
It, it, it comes from you, it comes from Whitney.
Yeah.
Um, so a, I had to trust myselfin that moment

Uh,

Leah (18:49):
just because he wasn't going to be that cheerleader, a
doesn't mean I abandoned thatneed.

right.

Leah (18:57):
means I have to go resource, go get it from
somewhere else.
B, it gave me an opportunity toreflect.
Well, that's interesting.
How badly do I actually needthat?
What, where's this coming from?
There's a little girl in here,and then there's all this
projection of what I thinksuccess looks like.
And so it gave me a chance toreally kind of tease apart a new

(19:18):
way of looking at everything.
And because he just stayed inhis truth and didn't buckle and
didn't give me something that Iwanted, but yeah, and now I
actually trust him a little bitmore that he said no.

I love

Leah (19:33):
Which was hard, like I didn't like that answer.
So like watching how trust canincrease when someone gives you
boundaries that you prefer, theydidn't give you,

Yeah.

Leah (19:45):
that takes time to land though,'cause you don't like
that answer right away.
So it takes time to realize,wow, the backside of this is
actually more trust.

Well, exactly, and I mean this is so
important.
What you're, what you'repointing toward right now is
that, you know, part

Leah (20:02):
of

being able to trust another is to
really understand that, um, you.
Is to not expect them to giveyou things that you know are not
in them to give, that are notauthentic within them to give.
Otherwise, you're then settingyourself up for failure over and
over again.
And I do feel like in long-termrelationships, this is where.

(20:27):
Um, you know, trust issues startto begin.
And, and the, the leaky energyof like, well, I can't trust you
to ever, you know, um, to anexample, this is a stupid
example, but I can't ever trustyou to get the garbage out to
the street on time for thegarbage truck to pick it up.
And it's like, well, that persondoesn't.
Orient

Leah (20:47):
to that.

a value.
Like

Leah (20:48):
That's not something.

trust | willow (unedi (20:49):
important to them.
It's never gonna be important tothem.
Stop putting it on them to makethat thing valuable to them
enough that you would be able totrust them to do it.

Leah (21:01):
No,

you know, there's so many layers and

Leah (21:03):
there is a lot of layers and kind of, you know, another
thing about boundaries that Ihad to learn when dealing with
boundaries and how to get betterat them is when you make a
boundary and you say, if youdon't honor this, this is what's
going to happen.
I.

Yeah.

Leah (21:18):
you don't actually follow through with that consequence.

right.

Leah (21:21):
Um, so it's like learning if you, if you want them to
trust your boundaries and if youwanna trust your boundaries, you
actually have to do the hardthing when the boundary is
broken.

Yeah.

Leah (21:31):
so it's like, make sure those consequences are ones
you're willing to follow throughon, because who.
Because then it, it disruptspeople trusting you,

Yeah.

Leah (21:42):
though you set that boundary sometimes being
motivated by the fact that youcan't trust them.

Yeah, totally, totally.
You can just set yourself up forfailure so easily.
So you gotta be really honestwith yourself.
I mean, that's such a big partof trust is really just being
honest with yourself about allof this.
And while you're bringing upboundaries, I don't, you know,
if those of you who haven'theard us talk about boundaries
yet, I think it's reallyimportant to just throw this

(22:06):
piece in and let's talk about itnow is like boundaries are, are.
You know, made up of sort of twopathways and a boundary could
either be a request or it couldbe a requirement.
So just to set it up a littlebit more about what Leah's
talking about, if, if she has aboundary, like I need you to
take out the garbage everyTuesday, and if you don't.

Leah (22:29):
Don't

I will still

Leah (22:31):
love you.

will still be your wife.
I will still be here for you,

Leah (22:34):
That is.

a request a requirement, which is
I need you to take out thegarbage every Tuesday, and if
you

Leah (22:41):
Don't it's

to be the undoing of this
relationship.
At some

Leah (22:45):
Or if you don't, it's gonna rot and the garbage is
gonna pile up and

it's gonna stink.

Leah (22:51):
yeah.

Yeah.

Leah (22:53):
Um, yeah.
That's a good, it's a gooddistinction to play with y'all.
The difference between arequirement and a request.

that's that being really honest with
yourself.
And I think one of the thingstoo about boundaries versus like
rules for example, you know,'cause these things keep us
safe.
Boundaries, rules, fences, makegood neighbors.
Um, you know, rule rules tend tobe more hard and fast, whereas
boundaries shift as you shift.
Boundaries can be changing andmalleable as you change and

(23:20):
evolves.
Um, it's important to alwayskind of like a requirement of a,
you know, a

Leah (23:26):
Boundaries.

side could easily turn in, I'm

Leah (23:29):
I'm sorry,

side could easily turn

Leah (23:32):
turn

a requirement

Leah (23:33):
down line.

So, um, just keeping your finger on
the pulse of what's really truefor you is gonna be like the
number one north node fortrusting in life.

Leah (23:46):
And I really encourage people who did have examples in
their early childhood of.
Um, distorted trust of havingfamily members that repeatedly
lied or cheated or betrayed, ormanipulated or gaslit to take
some time.
All of you, if you haven'treflect on your earlier child

(24:07):
childhood, how much of that wasgoing on in your household, and
do you find yourself in fightswith partners and not just maybe
the partner you're with, butpast relationships because you
couldn't trust them.
What tends to happen is we gointo transference.
Suddenly we can't see that it's,it's Jeff, our lover of three

(24:28):
years.
We're actually in transference.
It's our dad, we're seeing, orit's our uncle, or it's the last
five boyfriends who cheated onyou.
And the thing to recognizeinstead of blaming, blaming,
blaming so that you can validateyour reason not to trust and why
men aren't trustworthy or womenaren't trustworthy or so on and
so forth, is you're the onlyconstant in this pattern.

(24:52):
So if you do want to find atrustworthy partner and have a
healthier relationship in theworld of trust, you're not gonna
get there.
If all it's about is trustingthings that are outside of you.
The way to course correct isgoing and developing self-trust.
Is, is getting veryintrospective on, on the

(25:14):
inflection points in your lifewhere.
You where trust bit you hurt,you, devastated you, and, and
now to sort of correct yourfaith.
So that, and then to also lookinside because so much we don't,
here's the reason why we reallywanted to have this episode is
because so many people think oftrust and they, they always

(25:37):
project that it's outside ofthem.

Mm-hmm.

Leah (25:40):
When really trust is an inside game.
It's a door that opens over hereand what happens is.
We don't trust our ability tochoose the right partner.
We don't trust our ability notto make the same mistake over
and over again because it'shappened over and over and over
again.
So if you wanna heal trust, youalso have to take a look at, do

(26:01):
I trust myself?

Yeah.
Yeah.
Can, can I find a place insideof myself that I can calibrate
enough to my own truth that Ican trust that, and is a very
deep, deep practice, a Very deeppersonal, um, journey.
And it does have to getrecalibrated continually.

(26:27):
You know, it's like that theselast three years have shown me,
um, a deeper pathway into faithand trust in myself than I ever
had before because of breachesin trust that were, um, that
transpired over and over again.

Leah (26:45):
You know, one of the biggest issues around trust for
me, that I had to heal wastrusting that I was lovable and
that I was worthy of likesomeone being in love with.
And the way I tried to protectmyself, because the scariest
thing, and I remember the fear,like the visceral fear of if.

(27:06):
If I found out, like my hunchwas I wasn't worthy and I wasn't
lovable, and the worst thingthat could happen is to prove
that that's true.
So I just wouldn't even go therewith lovers.
I just settled, like I just madethis starry story up that like I
was cool'cause I had lovers,

Yeah.

Leah (27:25):
but.
No one was really falling inlove with me

Mm-hmm.

Leah (27:30):
it, I couldn't admit how badly I wanted that.
So I just told myself lies andlies, and lies and lies, and for
years and years and years.
And I went without acknowledgingthis huge desire, this deep,
deep human need.
And also to take the risk and tofind out would anyone fall in
love with me?
Um,

it's okay.
So question, personal questionthen.
How long, how long, when youfinally got.
with yourself, what What was theprocess?
What was the journey?
What was the timeframe that ittook for Matt to totally fall in
love with you?

Leah (28:05):
Well, this, I was able to correct this before Matt.
Um, so I, it, it, this happeneda little bit earlier in life and
really it wasn't until Idiscovered Tantra

Uhhuh?

Leah (28:15):
I started putting, having more truly intimate, sober.

Yes.

Leah (28:21):
Um,

trust | willow (une (28:21):
experiences

Leah (28:23):
that were asking me to get really present, especially with
sex.

Mm-hmm.

Leah (28:28):
And that I began to change the vibration of people that I
was spending time with.
So I was, wasn't smoking asmuch, weed wasn't getting wasted
at night, going to bars.
Um, I was like sober enough toactually feel all this fear and
to to get naked emotionally asmuch as I was getting naked

(28:49):
physically.
And it was wonderful andshattering at the same time that
I couldn't hide from myselfanymore.
And like there's something aboutconscious relating, um, and, and
being in a community of peoplewho are of like mind that are so
much support for you there thatyou learn to trust that I'm

(29:10):
gonna shatter in front ofsomebody and they're gonna see
like how scared and ugly I feelabout myself and they catch you.

Yeah.

Leah (29:19):
And suddenly I had a mirror for what, what trust and
love, what was possible withthat.
And that transformation was thebiggest gift of my entire life.
I, I'm so lucky that, and I'm soproud of myself that I took
those seminars and I went tothose workshops and I got
uncomfortable.

(29:39):
Um, because it changedeverything.
It changed, it changedeverything.
Okay.

Okay, so what would you say to our
listeners who are like,

Leah (29:49):
Fuck.

I I needed I need to get that real
with I need to get that honestwith myself and you know, and
I'm scared my hell.
and I don't know where to evenbegin.

Leah (30:02):
Well, I would start looking for community.
I think that's the best way todo it.
And what that allows you to dois you've got a lot of people in
one place, you're having ashared experience, and that
gives you a felt sense,exploration and trusting
different people.
And being able to feel in agroup you'll, you'll resonate

(30:23):
with one person a lot.
That's probably the person youfeel the most synergistic trust
with.
You might be a little bitsuspicious of someone else, so
you have multiple experiences offeeling your trust meter.
And of course, working with atherapist too, I think is
helpful.
But I like the group ideabecause instead of putting all
your faith in one teacher or onecoach, or one therapist where

(30:46):
they could disappoint you.

right.

Leah (30:48):
You put yourself into a community that has a container
around it that's people havereferred to you

Uhhuh

Leah (30:55):
that you can try some things out.
Um, one place that people tendto like and get a lot of value
from is the high.
Um, human Awareness Institute.
They've got a, um, a place inCalifornia.
They may have something on theEast Coast.
Mankind Project is a great placefor, uh, as a men's group for
men to develop trust, both inself and other.

(31:18):
Um, certainly the workshops thatWillow and I create are ones,
um, you know, retreats.
That, that's, that's thecornerstone is us developing how
to trust ourselves and others.
So there's so much access outthere for you to start to, uh.

and it doesn't even have to be in
the sexuality space.
You know?
could go do some, it, it doesseem like do having some kind of
like evolutionary developmentaltraining, Mm-hmm.
that you're going through with agroup of people, you know,
really allows you to drop inwith these people because when
you're going through anevolutionary developmental

(31:54):
training, you're, you'reexploring vulnerable.
Sides of Mm-hmm.
everyone in the space is, um,another place would be Lynda
Cesara's work, and

Leah (32:03):
Mm-hmm.

10 day, um, 10 day retreats on Maui
that are, you know, wanna do adeep dive into your,

Leah (32:11):
Yeah.

your Developmental, Go check that
out.
Um, so I think that.
You know, not just community,like, oh, I, I go to Cureton and
I see the same people, but morelike okay, we're going through
a, a

Leah (32:26):
process.
Yeah.

We're learning

Leah (32:29):
Yeah.

about how to be better humans.

Leah (32:32):
an active growth process that asks you

Yeah.

Leah (32:38):
get in touch with yourself emotionally.
Here's some things that youcould try, um,

your

Leah (32:43):
to cultivate on your own.
Yeah.
One, one is to write a letter tothe universe and

love

Leah (32:48):
Yeah.
Say, say more about this oneWillow.

So, um, you know, you can, you can
turn this into anything thatworks for you, but what I like
to do is I like to set a timerfor 11 minutes and 11 seconds
because 11, 11 is an angelnumber, and so it

Leah (33:03):
Okay.

in this like angelic space and you
just sit there and you feel Whatyou feel.
There's so much going on in ourhuman want experience of, trying
to figure it out, okay, I I wanthappy, I I want.
safe, I wanna feel supported, Iwanna feel like I can trust my
partner.
How am I gonna get there?
How am I gonna figure out theway to that?
And you know, the laws ofquantum physics and

(33:26):
manifestations say, stop Tryingto figure out, You know, sit in
the.
Feeling of it.
So when you sit and you write aand you're and you write to the
universe, or you write to the,like I wanna feel, you know, you
write to the feeling of safetyor you write to the feeling of
trust, dear trust, it feels sogood to have you in my life when

(33:49):
you are with me.
I.
move through the world in such adifferent way, and my eyes are
more open to the possibilitiesthat I wouldn't otherwise.
See, and you just spend 11minutes and 11 seconds writing
to the thing that you wanna feelmore of in your life.

Leah (34:07):
Yeah.
That's a great, um, that's agreat exercise to really imagine
what it feels like in your bodyand then in the world, living
your life if you lived in trust,what does that feel like and
look like?
Uh, how do you treat yourselfand how do you treat others

Yeah.

Leah (34:24):
and explore that?

Yeah.

Leah (34:26):
along those lines, another thing to explore is.
Using your felt sense being inyour body and really asking
yourself, what does it feel likewhen I'm trusting?

Mm-hmm.

Leah (34:38):
What are the sensations?
What am I aware of?
How, where am I relaxed?
You know, what are the emotionsthat are easily felt?
What do I have awareness to?
What is my body feel like whenI'm resting in trust?
And then also, how do I know?
When I am not trusting, how do Iknow when I shouldn't trust

(34:59):
something?
What are the signals that mybody gives me?
What are the thoughts, feelings,and sensations that hit me when
something isn't right?
And that comes back to reallyidentifying for yourself.
Where does your inner guidancecome from?
What are the signals?
How does it communicate to you?

(35:20):
And that could be very differentfrom person to person.
Some people hear messages, somepeople have a place in their
body that, that gets, um,anxious, that has a sensation to
it.
And oftentimes, um, thesensations could be in different
places, four different things.
For instance, when I don't trustsomeone, I, it's like the hair

(35:44):
on the back of my neck goes up.

Oh, that's a

Leah (35:47):
Yeah.
It's like things get tight.
I, my eyebrows kind of cometogether and I can kind of look
at the person or situation like,Hmm,

Yeah.
I

Leah (35:57):
know that I believe what you're saying right now.

Yeah.

Leah (36:00):
think, I think you don't even believe what you're saying
right now.
You know, like there's an actuallook that happens in my eyes and
my eyebrows, um, and I can kindof feel a heckle, kind of my, my
shoulders come up, I lean outinstead of leaning in.

Mm.

Leah (36:16):
And then when I'm not sure about trusting myself, um, my
belly gets tight.
I have a feeling of unease.
I feel unsettled.
And when I have that unsettledfeeling, sometimes it takes me a
while to understand why.
Like, I just feel unsettled.
I, I feel uneasy, and it's, Ifeel restless and it's not

(36:39):
pleasant.
Um, sometimes I could just befeeling anxious for no reason,
but I know not to make anydecisions when that sensation is
there.
And then coupled with thatusually comes a cycle of
thoughts that circle and circleand circle that look like
self-doubt.
I'm doubting myself.

(37:00):
I'm doubting my confidence.
I'm doubting my capability.
I'm doubting my likability.
I'm doubting that the universeis supporting me.
You know, it's like, it's likeone of those, you're, the
critical mind is giving you allthis proof why you suck.
And that is often a sign that Iam, I'm not relaxed and I'm

(37:23):
coming from a place ofdistortion

Yes.
Triggers, old patterns, oldconditioning.
Gosh, you know, as you'retalking so, So much.
coming up for me.
'cause I was just, um, in mywomen's thread, the women that I
lead through the sex magicpractices, um, and one of them
is having a, a, a major huge,you know, transformation in, in

(37:47):
romantic relationship.
Like this is a huge, big dealfor her.
What's happening in her liferight now.
And she asked, she was.
Sending little messages to ourthread.
And you know, she asked thequestion, how do you know when
it's right?
How do you know when it's right?

Leah (38:01):
Ooh, good one.
Yeah.

there's also this, like, there, you
could We also have, same likenervousness and anxiousness when
it is, you know, the right, And,and so it, it

Leah (38:13):
that's where it gets confusing and it, it's like,
shit.
Um, yeah.
That's such an important inquiryquestion.

Yeah.

Leah (38:21):
really, really like that.
Yeah.

yeah, and so, you know, my, my reply
to her was like, because sheAlso in the same, you know,
sentence was like, but I just,I'm just doing it.
I'm just doing it.
And said there, it's gonna workout or it's But I can feel this
old construct of fear.
not, That's causing me thisquestion, you know?
Yeah.

(38:42):
and, and I think what, whatyou're talking about is like
there's something deeper insideof you and it's really gut
level.
Like if we look at the brains inthe body, because we all know
this is a brain, but we may notknow that the heart has All kind
neuro networks and neuroneuropathways and memory and
emotion, and so does the gut.
So the enteric brain, the gutbrain is the.

(39:06):
Primordial brain It's theoriginal brain, and the one that
like, that's why they say, trustyour said to your Right gut?
gut feeling.
Yeah.
And so, um, you know, You know,it be really helpful actually.
to have.
Co Like when you're, when you'rein that distorted kind of place
that you were just mentioning,it can be really helpful to have

(39:28):
conversation between your head,your heart, and your gut.
And there's a, a process calledMultiple brain integration
technique.
This is where I got my coachingdegree and that's.
You know, really getting allthree of these brains on the
same playing field

Leah (39:44):
Mm.

the same level.
And then you find your nervoussystem in a state of coherence.
You know, So the example withmy, my, one of my ladies, my
clients, she's like, you know,it's like her heart is telling
her yes, but her gut is fuckingscared, you know her head is
reasoning through all thesedifferent things.
So there maybe this likeincoherence.

(40:05):
Going on until she takes thetime to sit down and, and either
write it now or voice message itout, or have someone guide her
through the multiple brainintegration process where she
can find a place where all threeof her brains are like.
is the right choice.
It may not end the way you wantit to.

(40:26):
It It may be better than evencould have imagined.
have no idea and you're scaredbecause of old conditioning and
old experiences, so

Leah (40:35):
Beautiful

could proceed forward with so much
more, um, clarity around.
this is the right thing,

Leah (40:43):
Brilliant.

I

Leah (40:44):
here.
I love that.
And you know, because I think weconfuse trust with fear.

Yes.

Leah (40:51):
if I feel this negative emotion, it means I can't trust
it.
But oftentimes when we confusethat inappropriately, then we
hold ourselves back from takingrisks and taking chances because
we don't know what the outcomeis, is mysterious.
We don't know we'll pass or ifwe fail.
And a part of really knowingthat you can trust yourself is

(41:16):
knowing that even if I fail,even if I make a mistake, even
if my heart gets broken, I willbe okay.

Mm-hmm.

Leah (41:27):
And this is where fact finding can be very, very useful
because you can go back and lookat history and say, when that
tragic thing happened, I thoughtI would fall apart, but I
eventually was okay.
And so,'cause sometimes our, ourthoughts will just take us and

(41:47):
create so much doubt and so muchinsecurity that we freeze and we
and our lives get smallerinstead of bigger.
But if we can remind ourselvesI'm still alive, because the
ultimate fear is that we'll diethat this thing will happen and
we will die.
I will die of this broken heart.
I will die of this divorce.
But the truth is.

feel like you will dry in the moment.

Leah (42:09):
Yeah, I, you, I know you're totally convinced that
you're any minute now, yourheart's gonna stop.
But the truth is, is it doesn't,you keep going

Yeah.

Leah (42:19):
eventually you are okay.
And we need to know that whenwe're in that moment of crisis
and we're not sure we can getthrough our mom's funeral,

Right.

Leah (42:28):
know?

I, let's not

Leah (42:30):
Yeah.
We,

Um,

Leah (42:34):
okay, let's, I.

talk a little bit about, like, let's
say, um, partners have beentogether for a long time and you
know, that there was a breach intrust there, there was a
cheating or there was a, youknow, betrayal at some point
long ago, or potentially notthat long ago.
I've got a client right nowwho's in that situation where it

(42:56):
was like it was years ago, yearsand years and years ago, and
there's still this, um, youknow,

Leah (43:03):
rupture.

of like, yeah, how can I, how can I
drop in?
How can I trust this person?
And So is there been a deeptrust rupture like that term
inside of a relationship, whatare the practices that we would
recommend for you all?

Leah (43:21):
Yeah, that is a great, um, yeah, let's go there.
That's really useful.

Yeah.
One of the, one of the thingsthat, um, we think could be
really helpful is, um, creatingtrust jars.
Now, it might sound kind ofcorny, but it can be also really
fun and like you have a jar andyou could make art of it, or it
could just be a jar.
It doesn't have to be artful,but you could make it more fun

(43:48):
by putting something pretty onit.
And every time your partnertakes a small step toward
rebuilding trust, you write thatdown and you put it in the jar.
And this is just a physicalreminder that you see regularly.
'cause there's something about,you know, rewiring The neuro
pathways in our bodies wherewhen you see something

(44:11):
physically, it reminds you, ohyeah, that's the feeling.
That's how I wanna feel.
Oh yeah, they did that littlething yesterday.
And that really felt trustworthyto me.
So then you're looking at thatjar every time you're in the
bathroom or the.
kitchen or wherever or in thebedroom, and you're reminded
that they are working their wayBack into vulnerable place in

(44:36):
your heart.
And sometimes you might writesomething down that they did
not.
They weren't trying.
be trustworthy just for you.
It hit you in a way where it.
Like, oh, I can trust them againdeeper and more because of that
action that they took.

Leah (44:50):
And the reason why that is so effective is because our
brain is wired to see thenegative.
It's, it's all connected to oursurvival early, early, early in
the beginning of time forhumans.
So it takes I think fourpositive things to happen to
knock out one negative thought.
So that's a lot of positive shitthat has to happen all day long

(45:13):
because we are hardwired tofocus on the negative, to focus
on what's not working, to focuson what we can't trust, instead
of programming ourselves to lookfor the proof, fact finding
again of what we can trust ofbeing able to see our partner
trying.
So this is a physical exercisethat can help you get in the

(45:35):
habit of really noticing andchanging your perspective and,
and finding little wins for bothof you.
This can really help restorethings at a micro level that
ends up leading to big moves.
Um, here's another exercise, andthis is really good for, um,

(45:55):
recovering.
Um, when you need to do somecommunication and if you want
your communication to be moreeffective, because oftentimes
what happens, we start tellingour partner what they're doing
wrong and why we can't trustthem, and then they get
defensive and nothing actuallygets resolved.
So we often need to have somestructure so that our repair

(46:15):
conversations are more useful.
I really encourage people like,make your fights count.
Make every fight turn into awin.
'cause if you're gonna gothrough it, let's get to the
other side.
Yeah.
So first thing you have toestablish are some ground rules.
One is no interrupting, nocrosstalk.

(46:36):
Let your partner get throughwhat they're trying to convey,
and no problem solving yet, youknow, unless it's requested.
Just allow them to empty theirbucket.
And then there's an agreementthat when it's time to respond,
you really practice respondingwith curiosity rather than

(46:58):
defensiveness.
Okay?
So I want you to keep that inmind.
Now, here are the fourquestions.
Okay.
Person one goes and they'reupset, and so they try to as
factually as possible, say whenblank happened, when this thing
happened.
And then you talk about theimpact, the emotional impact I

(47:22):
felt, and then explore theemotions.
The next one is the story I toldmyself about what happened and
what I felt.
You're sharing your personalinterpretation.
That is the part that may or maynot be factual.
That's okay.
That the story I told myself asa result of those feelings and

(47:44):
what happened is the lastquestion or last statement is
what would help me feel moresecure?
That is making a request.
What would help me feel moresecure is a hug, is
understanding, is compassion, istrying something different next
time, so on and so forth.

(48:06):
And then as the receiver of thatinformation, ask some curious
questions.
If you need more information,reflect back to them what you
heard.
Make sure you got their storyright.

I love that.
think that could be an absolutegame changer for so many
relationships.
Even if you're not dealing withtrust issues, you could still
like deepen so much into your,into your intimacy with a
practice like that.
So no matter who you are, whereyou're at, implement that shit.
Even if you're not in anintimate relationship, just do

(48:38):
it with a friend.
Just see what happens.
Start practicing when you're ina good space.

Leah (48:44):
I think another thing that established,'cause there's so
many couples that love eachother and they're committed, but
they're no longer sexual.

Yeah.

Leah (48:52):
Like, it just, it just, there's too many things that
have happened.
They'd like to turn towards eachother, but sex would be a
disaster at this stage in thegame because of disruptions of
trust.
And so the first step for a lotof them is to first rebuild
physical trust with non-sexualtouch exercises.

(49:13):
Um, so what's your advice,Willow on non-sexual touch to
help restore trust.

Well, hugs from behind are so great,
like bear hug, you know, and,and leaning into each other.
Um, I often will give this, um,fun tantric, well, it's more of
a taoist practice, but whatever.
Same, same.
Where I have couples sit back toback and just breathe into each
other's adrenal glands.
I

Leah (49:39):
love that.
Is that the turtle meditation?
I love that one.

breathing and it just like, it just makes
everything fade away and you'rejust, your nervous systems start
to like find a cohesive place

Leah (49:51):
Mm-hmm.
You feel supported when you'reback to back.

it.

Leah (49:55):
Yeah.

It feels so good.
And it's like it's nobody's jobto hold the other one up, you
know?
So there's just this real sweetthing that happens, and I use
that all the time with you know,a, a new client who walks in and
it's just a great way to, um,build an immediate nervous
system safety rapport.
So doing that practice can be sopowerful.

(50:17):
Um, you know, and it, it'snon-sexual, it's great.
And then of course, I think justlike, um, you know, petting and
stroking, what,

Leah (50:26):
What do you

it?
Havening,

Leah (50:27):
Havening?

havening is something you

Leah (50:29):
Yeah.
Well, no havening you can do forsomeone else, but it's a very sp
specific technique.

Mm-hmm.

Leah (50:35):
it's simple to learn.
I encourage people to look itup.
It really does help with thedelta waves.
But along that same line, I alsothink, um caressing the face

Yeah.

Leah (50:45):
an interesting process.
First, wash your hands and thenallow, and then you're just
gently caressing the contours ofyour partner's face.
And for the person who'sreceiving the caress, challenge
yourself to have your eyes open.
As much as you can.
If it gets a little intense,close your eyes for a little
bit, but then come back andbring them back open and use

(51:06):
your fingertips to cress theface.
Use the back of the hand tocress the face.
Really explore all the contours.
It's such an intimate andgentle, sweet restorative
practice.
It kind of reminds us of beingyoung like a little baby,

Mm-hmm.

Leah (51:24):
it feels it's an exercise of cherishment.

Mm-hmm.

Leah (51:28):
Of having someone's undivided attention, and we're
so hungry for that.

Yeah.

Leah (51:34):
can do that for your friends too.
It's just like, I call it babyyour lady.
You know?
Sometimes your girl just iscoming on over and she's in
distress.
And if she'll let you just like,here, let me just give you a
caress, a loving

her.

Leah (51:47):
caress to your sweet face, your little angel.

I

Leah (51:55):
Um.

You know, for some reason that makes
me think of the pause in pre andperinatal psychology.
We were talking about this on anepisode the other day.
Um, there's, there's seven stepsto like rebuilding, um, or
deepening connection with other.
And, um, it relates to allrelationships, whether it's your
children or your partner, yourlover, whatever.

(52:17):
Um, but one of the reallyimportant ones is pause.
And so sometimes when we're inthis process of rebuilding trust
and coming back to a place orpossibly to a place for the
first time inside of ourselveswhere we.
our.
to our own truth without ashadow of it out, without a

(52:39):
apology, without explanation.
We're just, this is what mytruth is straight up.
It can require us to pause longenough, and I don't know about
y'all, but I've got, I've comefrom, you know, a, a matriarchal
line where they just didn't dothat at all.
They just were much more of themartyring, well, I'll just do

Leah (52:58):
Mm.

everybody wants me to do it.
I'll just do it'cause it'sexpected of me.
I'll do it'cause it'll makeeveryone happy.
And that is not orienting toyour own truth.
And so I'm constantly trying toguide my matriarchal line toward
like, well, what about yourneeds and desires and what you
want?
and I'll encourage them to justpause and sit and listen, you

(53:23):
know, deeply within, like what,what would feel best to you?
Like what would give you themost pleasure?

Leah (53:30):
Um, yes, and I think, I mean, there's lots of little
things that you can do.
Everything from like handmassages can be a safe starting
point because you can, um, givefeedback in a less high risk
sort of situation than ifsomeone was like massaging your
genitals and you feel likeyou're directing traffic and it
kind of turns into a disaster.

(53:51):
Um, but having.
Taking turns, getting handmassages from each other where
you can communicate the nuancesof lighter.
Or deeper or slower or faster,you know, or the parts of your
hands.
'cause your hands are actuallyvery sensitive.
Wherever there's a flexiblejoint, there's extra nerve
endings.
And so we have so many flexiblejoints in our hands and, and

(54:14):
touch feels good.
It feels good to be the toucherand it feels good to be the
touchy and we shrivel withouttouch human beings.
So just having your partner giveyou a gentle hand massage where
you're both really payingattention about what feels good,
and then finding waysnonverbally sometimes like
through sound and breath tocommunicate.

(54:37):
A, a nonverbal giving nonverbalcues is a great way to get
better at being able to trustyourself as a toucher.
You're looking at your partner'ssystem and going, are they
opening?
Are they closing?
Is their face scrunching up?
What are their nonverbal cues?
Are letting me know they'reclosing.
What are their nonverbal cues intheir body that are letting me

(54:59):
know, Ooh, they like this.
Because not everyone's beentaught attunement.
So being able to add a littlebit of a distance without a high
risk.
Um, start with the feet.
Start with the hands.

Yeah, absolutely.
let's see.
Is there anything else that wewanna make sure that we give our

Leah (55:18):
Let's see.

before.
We wrap up with this such animportant topic in episode.
I think one thing I wanna, youknow, leave you all with is just
what, what is it inside of youthat lets you know that you're
orienting to your own truth?
Like what's the indicator foryou Leah shared for her, it's

(55:40):
that hair standing up at theback of her neck.
You know, she can feel like,Ooh, that's a no.
You know?
And I imagine she has adifferent indicator when she
feels a yes.
But I would love to hear fromall of you in the comments.
It's really good to write it out

Leah (55:55):
Yeah.

spell it out for you, not only for
yourself, but for others too.
Because they might be like, Idon't know what it is for me.
But then you write something andthey're like, oh yeah, that does
work for me too.
So it's really good to know thisabout yourself.
What are the indicators that letyou know you're orienting to
your own truth?
To a point that you can trustyourself in any situation.

Leah (56:20):
Yeah, and I would just close with these two thoughts,
um, that trust.
Here's the paradox of trust.
Okay?
The more you surrender, the moreyou let go, the more you're open
to allowing the trustee, thetrustworthiness of others,

(56:40):
especially when it comes to sex.
The more you can surrender andlet go, the more gifts come to
you.
And there's something aboutlearning how to trust in
surrendering.
That the truth is you don't havecontrol of jack shit.
It's all an illusion anyways.
And so when you can learn to bea lover of reality.

(57:03):
You actually find yourself inless constriction and in less
betrayal of the holy trust, youcan just relax into, I trust
that shit's gonna happen andit's gonna be hard, and I trust
that I will be okay.
So really think about where inyour life are you gripping too

(57:25):
tightly.
Allow yourself actually,physically to unwind that part
of your system that is grippingand, and practice softening.
Because when we soften, that'swhere the door to trust will
open.
So play with that.
Amen, sister.

(57:46):
Mm-hmm.

All right.

Leah (57:48):
All right.
Have an amazing day, morning,evening.
Love, love, love.

love.

Announcer (57:54):
Thanks for tuning in.
This episode was hosted byTantric Sex Master Coach and
positive psychology facilitator,Leah Piper, as well as by
Chinese and Functional Medicinedoctor and Taoist Techology
teacher, Dr.
Willow Brown.
Don't forget your comments,likes subscribes, and
suggestions matter.
Let's realize this new worldtogether.

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Leah & Dr. Willow: Why Your Trust Issues Are Actually Self-Trust Issues (The Inside Game) | #141

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Leah & Dr. Willow: Why Your Trust Issues Are Actually Self-Trust Issues (The Inside Game) | #141